How do you respond when told by a officer to not follow military customs?

2022-01-25T00:15:35-05:00

I recently had a situation where walking up to the armory I noticed a 1st Leitenent standing by the door. I saluted and offered the greeting of the day and was stopped and told that since this was the national guard I "didn't need to do all that". I feel somewhere in my E4 brain that this is a very wrong thing but don't know how to resond to a officer regarding that. How should I handle that?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2022 1:21 AM

2022-01-25T01:21:20-05:00

SPC Private RallyPoint Member Just thank him...move on... & do what you were trained to do... Salute. I'd rather error on that side than the other.

Response by 1SG Russell S. made Jan 25 at 2022 7:18 AM

2022-01-25T07:18:38-05:00

Do the right thing even if he does not. Remember officers are “0”s

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Jan 25 at 2022 7:36 AM

2022-01-25T07:36:05-05:00

As we used to quip: "WHEN IN DOUNT - WHIP IT OUT!"
Traditions are important as they bind the team in military life for many reasons. One of things they used to teach at the "Squad Leader Course - 1973" at Fort Knox to new Corporals and Sergeants was the reason behind the Army's Traditions. Maybe reinstituting that 15 minute class at the unit level for NCOs would be a good idea - especially considering the other "classes" in which I had to spend hours attending.
1. Foremost it is a formal recognition by both parties of who gives orders and who executes them. It is easy to accomplish and easy to return.
2. A way of providing a sense of continuity between the generations of soldiers, NCOs and officers.
3. Being reminded daily of the rank structure is just one of the activities such as formations, guard mounts, marching, etc - that exercise the chain of command.
4. In the passing of orders thru the chain from officers to lowest enlisted upholds morale by providing (in garrison) a means to judge morale.
5. It instills pride in soldiers, by reminding that they are a part something larger than their individual 'self'.
6. It is a part of a cultural custom helps new recruits acclimate to unfamiliar environments as many need the structure (including officers) since they come from many places and different, non-military cultures.
7. This simple 'Military Courtesy' as practiced binds solders to the Army's Culture as a not-so-secret club of which only serving and prior military are members.
8. It is intended to reinforce discipline and the chain of command by defining how soldiers will treat their superiors and vice versa with respect.
9. Salutes will enhance esprit de corps as long it's not disregarded.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Jan 25 at 2022 7:53 AM

2022-01-25T07:53:24-05:00

There still seems to be a lack of detail and context here. Was it a no salute area or uncovered area? Does anyone else adhere to this "rule" or is it limited to this one random Lieutenant? I generally don't do anything unless there is a rhyme, reason, rule or regulation so I want to understand the reason or justification. It could be a lazy LT or he could be just lazy with the rules because "it's only the Guard" or there could be something that allows no saluting in that specific area. I would bounce it off your peers and leadership for guidance to ensure you are in accordance with local rules. I have worked at places that had certain areas and locations that were deemed uncovered areas or no salute zones to allow for business to be conducted with limited issues.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2022 7:57 AM

2022-01-25T07:57:33-05:00

Unless it was a no hat, no salute zone, the LT was absolutely wrong. It’s too late now, but if that happens again, as an E-4 I would talk to a Senior NCO about it so they can tactfully correct him/her.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Jan 25 at 2022 9:11 AM

2022-01-25T09:11:39-05:00

The spaalute is a form of respect. You are showing that LT your respect. The LT has stated he does not wish to be respected. So don't.

I would continue to salute every officer BUT him.

Very much the same as many officers I have worked with who told me not to go to attention for them. Relaxed, unless we are around others, and then it is back to formal.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2022 9:22 AM

2022-01-25T09:22:19-05:00

You will find that there are more than a few officers that dislike being saluted. Some view it as tedious or bothersome. In my experience officers that are overly vocal about this dislike end up getting saluted a lot more frequently.

Eventually you will build a working relationship with some officers and NCO's due to the nature of your MOS or the mission and things will relax, especially on a deployment, but you can't let that relationship affect how you interact with other officers outside of that and to know when to lock it up when work needs to be done or when others are in your AO.

So yeah, keep saluting the LT until or even if a working relationship is built and even then still do it for the surrounding onlookers. Or don't, and when someone like say Top roles on in and wants to know why you didn't salute his LT, inform Top that the LT ordered you not to salute him. LT's bring on their own problems, because most of them are just shiny privates anyway. Sometimes they learn the hard way too.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jan 25 at 2022 10:24 AM

2022-01-25T10:24:46-05:00

I'm confused. Are you in the military or the National Guard?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2022 10:27 AM

2022-01-25T10:27:51-05:00

Find 6 of your enlisted buddies then sit, watch and wait. And when the opportunity arises....you all line up about 5 paces apart and march (in single file) to the LT and salute.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Jan 25 at 2022 10:56 AM

2022-01-25T10:56:09-05:00

Tell him that you salute the Rank, not the man.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2022 12:16 PM

2022-01-25T12:16:49-05:00

You just inform the young LT that you're more than happy to provide some mentorship on customs and courtesies, because that's what NCOs, and future NCOs, are for

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2022 4:13 PM

2022-01-25T16:13:34-05:00

You politely correct that LT that they are wrong and let them know there isn't anything that says National Guard is exempt from following customs and courtesies in uniform.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 25 at 2022 4:59 PM

2022-01-25T16:59:42-05:00

His low standards will make me think about his tactical competence as well.

Response by SPC Michael Moore made Jan 25 at 2022 5:07 PM

2022-01-25T17:07:33-05:00

Speak with a Senior NCO and let them handle it. You just keep being the soldier you are

Response by SFC Bill Snyder made Jan 26 at 2022 6:30 AM

2022-01-26T06:30:53-05:00

The LT should go back to Basic Training. No wonder (Lts) they have a bad reputation.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Jan 26 at 2022 10:12 AM

2022-01-26T10:12:19-05:00

Thank them and keep doing what's rite.
Later when there are unpleasantries exchanged you can bet you will be expected to adhere to proper customs and courtesies.

Response by SFC David Johnson made Jan 26 at 2022 4:52 PM

2022-01-26T16:52:42-05:00

Say “yes Sir”, salute and keep walking. Keep the standards you have learned and keep setting the example.

Response by SPC Casey Ashfield made Jan 26 at 2022 9:37 PM

2022-01-26T21:37:10-05:00

Keep doing what you are supposed to, salute/no salute as appropriate.

Response by Cpl Bernard Bates made Jan 26 at 2022 10:18 PM

2022-01-26T22:18:04-05:00

how am I supposed to know if you are active duty. You have on a uniform with Lt bars. You are an officer. I was trained to salute officers. National Guard becomes under the federal government in time of war. Semper fi.

Response by PO1 Sam Deel made Jan 27 at 2022 1:03 AM

2022-01-27T01:03:27-05:00

In the Navy, the custom is that Naval Tradition often held the weight of Regulations. Well, at least it was still back in the aughts. The Obama Regime worked hard at destroying that and morale. It was best to follow Tradition.

Response by SSG Leonard Cartwright made Jan 27 at 2022 9:28 PM

2022-01-27T21:28:56-05:00

By showing him the regulation where it states that a salute is rendered to an officer

Response by PO2 Chris Sabo made Jan 28 at 2022 12:36 AM

2022-01-28T00:36:26-05:00

Combat zone is one thing but just because is wrong!