SFC Dave Wynn 1224056 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>First opening combat mos&#39;s is a bad idea. We all know females are structured differently then men. They can&#39;t carry as much we some male private be detailed to carry her 100ib pack when she can&#39;t. Or have to carry the machine gun to the motor pool when she can&#39;t. Will joe snuffy get the same time off when his wife gives birth as she will get. I just don&#39;t think this decision was thought out. Don&#39;t get me wrong I spent 20 yrs in the service I&#39;ve seen maybe not all but a lot. How are they going react when they can&#39;t shower for two weeks or longer. Will the Officers take pity on them. I know if I was still in I wouldn&#39;t. 2016-01-08T20:14:40-05:00 SFC Dave Wynn 1224056

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>First opening combat mos&#39;s is a bad idea. We all know females are structured differently then men. They can&#39;t carry as much we some male private be detailed to carry her 100ib pack when she can&#39;t. Or have to carry the machine gun to the motor pool when she can&#39;t. Will joe snuffy get the same time off when his wife gives birth as she will get. I just don&#39;t think this decision was thought out. Don&#39;t get me wrong I spent 20 yrs in the service I&#39;ve seen maybe not all but a lot. How are they going react when they can&#39;t shower for two weeks or longer. Will the Officers take pity on them. I know if I was still in I wouldn&#39;t.

2016-01-08T20:14:40-05:00 2016-01-08T20:14:40-05:00 SGT Kristin Wiley 1224084

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I can carry as much as 135lb male, I can&#39;t carry as much as a 200lb male, but neither can a 135lb male. I carried the 240B in Basic Training, and in fact only the females were allowed to carry the extra equipment when I went through Basic. They military services are looking at changing paternity and maternity leave, but a male doesn&#39;t have to physically recover from giving birth like a female, so saying that should be equal is ridiculous. When a male can give birth, he can take recovery leave for it. <br /><br />Women are fine not showering for 2 weeks, as long as they drop the vanity act. Do you know what pubic hair is for? To prevent bacteria and dirt from going where it&#39;s not supposed to and causing an infection. None of your arguments are valid. <br /><br />Unless you are an identical twin, your body is different then the individual standing beside you. A 180lb male in peak physical condition will outperform a 180lb male with no physical training. A 135lb female who works her butt off to max the standards is going to out perform a 135lb male who only works to meet the minimum standard. It&#39;s about drive, it&#39;s about the mentality to keep moving forward and carry on. All females are not cut out for a combat MOS, just like all males are not cut out for a combat MOS. Heck there are countless Americans who can&#39;t even pass the minimum requirements to JOIN the military. If you are embarrassed that a woman in the infantry might out-perform an infantry male, then it should be used to motivate them to do better. <br /><br />Military women are not asking for hand-outs, pity, or to have standards lowered. Politicians may ask for those things because they are ignorant, but all women want is the opportunity to have a choice and not have what they can/can&#39;t do dictated to them by men.

2016-01-08T20:33:00-05:00 2016-01-08T20:33:00-05:00 CPT Gary Jugenheimer 1224092

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I believe the decision has been made and regardless of how one may feel, women are now a part of the &quot;entire&quot; force....think back to your squad or platoon....how did you or your leader handle the weight that had to be distributed and carried among the members of your squad or platoon....if the guy couldn&#39;t handle the M-60 did he carry it?....no, it went to the able bodied person that could do it....the ammo, radios. batteries, grenades, flairs, C-4, food and water were all considerations on who carried what and quite frankly if someone was lagging, the loads were rearranged.....I was a Plt Ldr who weighed about 150 lbs in RVN....my pack was sometimes heavy enough that if I had to go to the ground, I swear it would not let me get back up....I felt for my RTO as his load was all I had plus a radio and batteries...any breaks I could give him I did and he never complained.....we got hot, in firefights, and actually relished the opportunity to unload the ammo to get a break hoping that resupply could come quickly.....the Army will adapt and the women found in the ranks will be no different than men who learned to carry their load and perform when they had to....those that could not were soon gone!

2016-01-08T20:38:44-05:00 2016-01-08T20:38:44-05:00 CPT Pedro Meza 1224105

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>SFC Dave Wynn, you forgot to mention that we have been fighting an enemy that travels light and moves fast that in 14 years we have not killed off, so much for the heavy packing stuff. Best to adapt and change so that we can fight better. But if you are afraid please stay behind.

2016-01-08T20:46:09-05:00 2016-01-08T20:46:09-05:00 SCPO Private RallyPoint Member 1224184

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Well, it's a hard, shitty MOS for men. It should be no less for women. Still, it is a politically-correct experiment that WILL fail for all the obvious physical and emotional reasons. I only hope those failures occur in training, before someone gets killed trying to impress the God of Insanity and Stupidity!!!

2016-01-08T21:45:38-05:00 2016-01-08T21:45:38-05:00 LTC Private RallyPoint Member 1224265

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Separate from the physical strength aspect is what I would call the socialization aspect of having mixed units. People often bring up privacy concerns as reasons for not doing the integration. People seem to be so concerned about how will the women shit, shower and shave, so to speak, in the presence of males. But here&#39;s the thing about that. <br /><br />If you believe in the Army values, and actually walk the walk on things like having your fellow squad members back, than privacy issues will take care of themselves. It&#39;s about having basic respect for your fellow soldiers, male and female. For example, if a squad needs to all bunk together in the same tent, there are two ways that could go. If a female has to change out of her clothes to get ready to sleep, male members could act like teenage perverts trying to &quot;sneak a look&quot; at the female as she changes. Or, because they have respect for and care about their teammates, they voluntarily turn their backs to afford their fellow soldier privacy. Same with showering or other hygiene situations. A team should demand respect for every member of their team, rather than be part of the problem. And of course that courtesy and respect goes both ways. <br /><br />Most all of the so called issues with having a coed environment go away once you treat each other with respect and consideration willingly, rather than go feet dragging.

2016-01-08T22:31:51-05:00 2016-01-08T22:31:51-05:00 CPT Pedro Meza 1224280

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>This is a question that fails to recognize the facts that for the past 14 years service women have gone out the wire, on missions.

2016-01-08T22:41:01-05:00 2016-01-08T22:41:01-05:00 CPT Private RallyPoint Member 1224350

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>First, I don't agree with you that opening to females is a bad idea. I think it is a bad idea to let soldiers that aren't capable to meeting the standards. There are males out there that can barely keep up. I just don't think it is a thing about what sex you are. Some women are more than capable. <br /><br />Next, I will address the question. To me it is a bit off setting. It's not they are females but it is something new. It would be the same way if they added anything different. A lot of times we as combat arms have this notion that they are going to call SHARP on everyone and create havoc. I don't think that will be case. If you have a female that is creating an issue it should be dealt with on an individual level just as you would with a male soldier. I think it will take some time and the Army as whole needs to figure out how they are going to make an equal standard among both males and females in an MOS. If they don't they will cause a lot of conflict.

2016-01-08T23:16:38-05:00 2016-01-08T23:16:38-05:00 CAPT Kevin B. 1224436

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Wow, thought I was in a time warp to the late '80s as the discussion is a duplicate of the churn when women were brought into the Seabees. Yes, Seabees are not front line combat, but there is the "We Fight" piece in that you have to defend job sites, set up wire, and take out elements trying to take you out. So units deployed with everyone and everyone had their jobs and the same risks. So women had to schlep the M252 81mm tubes and bases around same as the men. Women had to man and be good with Ma Duce. They were. The only thing that mattered was you were trained, tested, and qualified. After 35+ years, Seabees look pretty normal.<br /><br />The difference I see today is the discussion tends to quickly go to extreme conditions, e.g. Ranger, Seal, Delta, whatever. I'm not qualified to have a particular opinion about the extremes. I will say whatever you think women can and cannot do, they tend to do better than the naysayers forecast.

2016-01-08T23:58:56-05:00 2016-01-08T23:58:56-05:00 SGM Mikel Dawson 1224454

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I think we can beat this horse to death, but there will be no firm answers either way until the deed is done and time passes to effectively evaluate the situation.

2016-01-09T00:20:39-05:00 2016-01-09T00:20:39-05:00 SSgt Jim Gilmore 1224460

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>1. I think it is not a wise move. 2. You do not change the standards to accommodate females. If they want the job, meet the requirements. 3. I don't give a damn who is in the job as long as they can do the job.

2016-01-09T00:25:07-05:00 2016-01-09T00:25:07-05:00 1SG Private RallyPoint Member 1224467

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>In my house (admittedly not combat arms) women will be treated exactly the same.<br />Just like the guidance says.

2016-01-09T00:31:54-05:00 2016-01-09T00:31:54-05:00 SFC Pete Kain 1224483

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Despite the lofty claims...I suspect there will an increase in females Manning the arms room, drivers, training N.C.Os etc. Oh well it's a done deal, so we shall see.<br />On a side note during Desert storm while the 4ID was waiting to deploy in the event of mass causalities, there was a spike in pregnancies. Just saying.

2016-01-09T00:55:07-05:00 2016-01-09T00:55:07-05:00 Cpl David Smith 1224495

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>This is not a matter of equality. Woman are simply not men just as a man does not equal a woman. Woman are wired differently and cannot be expected to perform as a man. A man can turn his emotions off much better and even men have a hard time turn them off and back on. Also think of when a girl falls or gets hurt, a man&#39;s natural instinct is to help her up, comfort her, and so on. This would be a huge distraction in a firefight.

2016-01-09T01:17:24-05:00 2016-01-09T01:17:24-05:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 1224548

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I must say, the points in your argument are really very silly. You make it sound like our day and age is the first time women have ever gone into combat. There are posts below that mention female soldiers have been going out on the wire for the passed 14 years. Why stop there? Let&#39;s go back farther!<br />Did you ever take American History? Female soldiers have been up on the front lines since before the Civil War or even the American Revolutionary War. Look up Deborah Sampson, Molly Pitcher, Frances Clalin, or Jennie Hodgers sometime. Keep in mind these were times when women weren&#39;t allowed to join the army to fight. That didn&#39;t stop some women. The Civil War alone has 400 documented cases where women snuck in disguised as men.<br />These were women that took a piece of cloth to bind their breasts down, put on a male uniform, took up a male identity, carried all the equipment and weapons a male would have at their time, lived among other males, and for all intents and purposes, everyone around them believed those women were males.<br />The only reason these documented cases exist is because eventually the female would suffer a gunshot wound or something similar, which would force them to be taken to a doctor. The doctor, upon examining the patient, would discover the secret and tell her CO. The female soldier would usually receive an immediate Honorable Discharge shortly thereafter. Some even collected pensions for their service.<br />Anyway, my point is, if a female truly wants to do it, she will find a way.

2016-01-09T02:04:49-05:00 2016-01-09T02:04:49-05:00 COL Charles Williams 1224591

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Like everything new <a class="dark-link bold-link" role="profile-hover" data-qtip-container="body" data-id="771542" data-source-page-controller="question_response_contents" href="/profiles/771542-sfc-dave-wynn">SFC Dave Wynn</a> it will be shocking to some, emotional to many, and challenging to say the least... But, in the end, like all other changes, it will be fine, so long as we ensure we maintain job/MOS specific standards. <br /><br />Whether you, me, or anyone thinks this a good idea, really doesn&#39;t matter. This is what DOD directed, so our mission as leaders is to figure it out, and ensure in so doing we ensure all are treated with dignity and respect, and the standards are maintained. <br /><br />If we can&#39;t live the changes... in an all volunteer force, then we can find a new line of work.

2016-01-09T03:19:00-05:00 2016-01-09T03:19:00-05:00 1SG Patrick Sims 1224677

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>When I was on the Fire Department In Syracuse, New York we had women come on the job in the 1980's I would suggest to any women member of the armed forces, upper strength training is the key, and today is the time to start. Your bodies are built differently than a man. You have to build up upper body strength, not only for yourself, but for the people you'll be fighting in combat with---Look at the boxer Ronda Rousey---She could kick the ass of most people in the military.

2016-01-09T07:05:43-05:00 2016-01-09T07:05:43-05:00 SFC Michael Hasbun 1224951

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Same as the males.... like crap.

2016-01-09T11:45:57-05:00 2016-01-09T11:45:57-05:00 MAJ Ken Landgren 1225115

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The Kurdish female fighters save a grenade or a bullet instead of being captured.

2016-01-09T13:18:22-05:00 2016-01-09T13:18:22-05:00 Kevin Purcell, DC 1225145

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I professionally train and coach elite male and female athletes to race Ironman triathlon (2.4 mile swim, 112 mile bike and 26.2 mile run). I can tell you that elite females _crush_ most men in the sport. They can finish in near 9hrs or less and the average male finishes near 12hrs. Granted the most elite males are about 10% faster than the most elite females and science bears that out in all sports and physical endeavors via field testing. Bottom line, there are woman who can pull their weight and suffer as well as any man. My opinion is not anecdotal.

2016-01-09T13:35:18-05:00 2016-01-09T13:35:18-05:00 TSgt Private RallyPoint Member 1225294

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I think the way the individual gets treated will greatly depend on their ability to perform the specific job. Regardless of gender.

2016-01-09T14:53:56-05:00 2016-01-09T14:53:56-05:00 LTC Private RallyPoint Member 1225408

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I know in Engineer land I knew a LT who was a platoon leader of route clearance package before it was "allowed". She was well respected by her platoon with no issues and did a great job. The Battalion Commander knew this about her and did not judge her by her gender but her performance and potential. That is how I would judge my Soldiers. Just look at Iraq where the first push had limited if any place to sleep/shower/eat. You telling me that all of them were males? Treat them by ability and if they meet standards great. If not do your job to bring them up. If still fail process them out of the MOS or Army regardless of the gender.<br /><br />Our job is not to make policies for the Army but to adapt to ones generated by higher levels.

2016-01-09T16:10:21-05:00 2016-01-09T16:10:21-05:00 Cpl Larry Mexia 1230042

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>If she's wants to be in a combat Mos then one of the qualifications should be to carry the 100 lbs ruck and weapons required of her job

2016-01-12T06:56:15-05:00 2016-01-12T06:56:15-05:00 GySgt Fredrick White 1230152

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I have read some of these comments and to me it doesn&#39;t matter whether I agree or disagree with the way the government is driving our military.....this concept is not new.....this has been in the works since Gen. Peter Pace was the VJCS......I have known this would happen eventually......look at all of our great warriors.....enlisted, senior enlisted, gen. and officer&#39;s that are resigning and out processing or retiring from the military...... there is nothing that can be done to stop the train from continuing to move...... I have my own opinions.....just as you all do.....the bottom line is while &quot;WE&quot; have our opinions and the Generals give their advice....nothing has stopped this decision from going forward. I passed the torch when I retired 6 years ago......my son and my daughter both serve.....I have addressed the issues to both of them on 2 different levels..... females have always been treated differently because &quot;WE&quot; as leaders failed to see them as soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines......they are viewed as females....which means gender has taken the place of hard firm leadership..... I was a drill instructor on Paris Island and at OCS.....I never wavered from addressing a candidate (male or female) the exact same way...just as I did when I worked at the Pentagon....... troops are troops and should be trained to the standards set forth by the specific services......not coddled like babies..... &quot;hard, firm leadership.....firmness fairness dignity and compassion......and sometimes a boot in the ass never hurts.......&quot; Semper Fidelis..... Gunny sends.

2016-01-12T08:17:00-05:00 2016-01-12T08:17:00-05:00 LCpl George Kelley 1230254

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>men will die trying to be the gallant heroes

2016-01-12T09:04:59-05:00 2016-01-12T09:04:59-05:00 GySgt Douglas Dare 1230265

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>There will be a couple females who endure the rigors of the infantry however, they will not physically be able to endure the force marches to the LOD and than the continued combat operations. The majority of my fellow Marines were 180 pounds or more with their combat load. I would like to see a 125 pound women pick her fellow Marine up and carry him to safety, or just drag him to safety. Than there is the ugly part of Combat, DEATH! How will our nation handle it's mothers, daughters, wives and sisters being placed in body bags and brought home. We fight wars as a nation not a Military. What happens when our women are captured and raped, beaten and tortured? Will our nation continue to fight to win or roll over and quit? My wife served 24 years in the Marine Corps completing two tours in Iraq. She will be the first to tell you this is foolish. If a women ends up in combat roll than she should of been trained to sustain that event. NO women should not be assigned to combat units. I believe they will be treated FIRM, FAIR and CONSISTENT however Officers will protect the female pushing this administrations agenda and an effort to cover up this horrendous mistake.

2016-01-12T09:08:48-05:00 2016-01-12T09:08:48-05:00 Prince McNeil 1230272

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>First off, it's not a male/female issue. If she doesn't panic, doesn't distract from the mission and pulls the trigger; welcome to my foxhole!! There are some men that don't fit the Combat MOS criteria! It's all fine and dandy until the rounds start flying!!! Who steps up determines who comes home!

2016-01-12T09:11:48-05:00 2016-01-12T09:11:48-05:00 LtCol Michael Seger 1230328

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Very simple: They will be treated differently.

2016-01-12T09:25:27-05:00 2016-01-12T09:25:27-05:00 Cpl Paul Smith 1230346

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Dave, you're an idiot! First, it was clearly stated that everyone (yes, including females) would have to endure and pass the same physical demands to be selected for the combat roles. I sincerely doubt you've seen much, much less everything. I know and have served with women Marines that were every bit as capable to perform combat operations as the guys I was with. I would gladly fight shoulder to shoulder with anyone of them. They were cool under pressure and could hit what they aimed at, unlike some guys. Nobody wants a two week stink growing on you, but the circumstances are the same for all. Child bearing, my wife had 3 and I wouldn't want to have gone through that in my body, so you shouldn't comment on it either. Time off balance, grow up! If you both get shot in the leg, you both get the same recovery time, other than that discussion, you don't know a thing!<br />Instead of your narrow minded thinking of should women be in combat roles, think about this, should an American be allowed to sign up and defend the Constitution of the United States, in any role necessary? Then you can come to a healthy, non-biased, "Yes!" If you still have manly doubts about it, go hunting with some of these women, see who bags what.

2016-01-12T09:29:52-05:00 2016-01-12T09:29:52-05:00 Cpl Charlie Johnson 1230496

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Yea, how will they be treated? by who? Command? Enlisted?.......Spouses! Being deployed is hard enough on your spouse, without her knowing your squadmate has tits. Im not being a pig here just stating some facts. Women smell different, ask anyone who went to church on PI.

2016-01-12T10:13:30-05:00 2016-01-12T10:13:30-05:00 Sgt Ronnie Mack 1230497

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>We all know, realistically. That there is no equality. No one wants to say it out loud because of the shit storm to follow. Yet I beleive, if she can literally do the task of carrying so much weight, doing so many pull/push ups. Then yes, let them in combat fields. But if they fail, let it be so. Sorry, that seems to only leave the butch like females that mat qualify for such MOS's. Let's just be real!!!

2016-01-12T10:13:31-05:00 2016-01-12T10:13:31-05:00 GySgt Charles O'Connell 1230632

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I don't think, once the barriers are dropped, there will be a mad rush to the recruiting offices or careers planners by females wanting to sign up for a combat arm. What this is about is getting a ticket punch for promotion.

2016-01-12T10:41:46-05:00 2016-01-12T10:41:46-05:00 Maj Pete Long 1230658

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The SecNav has publicly criticized the USMC Commandant and questioned the integrity of the experiment the Marine completed proving bey one a reasonable doubt that mxed gender combat arms units are not as effective as all male units. The commandant cannot respond in kind to the SecNav for being a pompous anal oriface. As a retired Marine officer I am not bound by tat restriction. Here is what I would do if I wear still in. Take the females that were forced into my unit (I was field artillery and deployed itch the infantry so I do know the physical requirements of combat arms unlike the political class) and make a pure female section, fire team, etc. if they meet perform as well or better than the male team then the discussion is over. If not, then note that the soldier or Marine did not perform to the level of their peers, give less than satisfactory evals, and remove from the unit. The folks on active duty cannot openly criticize the decision but they will be the ones charged with looking the other way when standards are lowered, inflating evals to show that the experiment is working, and making integrity situationally dependent rather than absolute.

2016-01-12T10:48:49-05:00 2016-01-12T10:48:49-05:00 Sgt Benton Garrison 1230754

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>No, no, no ! Not a good idea

2016-01-12T11:16:04-05:00 2016-01-12T11:16:04-05:00 CW3 Kevin Storm 1230851

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>With the current state of 18 year olds, if a troop can do the job, I say give her the chance. Some of the best Russian Snipers were women. We have this mind set in our military that we need to be loaded with an ungodly amount of equipment to do anything, What did they carry in the Civil War, WWI, WWII. We carry more crap then what is really needed. How many of us remember the stories of the Rangers who got issued a double issue of ammunition prior to going into Grenada. Do you recall they were so overloaded they could only take a few steps and had to take a rest, because they were physically fatigued by the weight they were carrying. I am hoping the addition of women may cause to get away from the heavy clumsy gear we have worn for so long to stuff that is well thought out, multi-functional, and lessening the burden on the war fighter, who can then do more, not with less but with better stuff. We can spend billions on a Joint Strike Flop, Billions on Futuristic Army Combat Systems that cancelled, but we just add more stuff on the back of the average Joe or Jill.

2016-01-12T11:45:32-05:00 2016-01-12T11:45:32-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 1230930

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>SFC Dave Wynn, I think that there are pros and cons to this. I think that it gives the opportunity for those of us females who are able to complete these tasks and actually want to complete them, a chance to do so. If we pass, we pass. If we fail, we fail. That's our burden to bare, not anyone elses. To piggy back off of SGT Wiley, sure, there are plenty of males that can't carry their own weight or more. I've seen them everywhere that I have gone. Some of them, I had to complete strict pull ups with 2 weapons slung on my back and 15 reps of them for them in order for them to get into the chow hall in BCT. They simply could not do it. Now, is it harder for us? Certainly. Simply because, no, we weren't built to physically sustain, lift, pull and push as much as males can but we can survive. It took me hard work and years to get to where I am but I am proud of it. So, the argument can go either way. <br /><br />As far as the birth thing. Valid point. Yes, giving birth is awful and the recovery can take some time. I know because I've done it. On the same token, I gave a completely drug free and natural birth and 2 days after they released me and very little sleep, where did I go? Straight to the gym. It's all about the mental status for us. No, not every female would do that but I say allow us to put our money where mouths are.<br /><br />But the original question was how will we be treated. I say, the same but with some malice behind it. When I was in WLC (yes, these are younger junior enlisted soldiers but they were already told what it should look like as far as what females can do and what males will do), I ended up being the only female in my platoon. After receiving the highest PT score of all Infantry males (with a mechanic and a supply sgt), I was made the PS. Gosh did the infantry soldiers HATE this. It upset me but I understood why. A female and a Chaplain Assistant! Outrageous! She can't lead us. Well, I did what every SOLDIER would do... drive on. I still completed my tasks at the top of my class and in the end earned some sort of respect. And I didn't go out of my way to do these things to be recognized. I did was I was told and taught to do as a soldier. So, we may not receive the greatest treatment but I think that it will be fair. We just have to be resilient enough to effectively handle it.

2016-01-12T12:14:36-05:00 2016-01-12T12:14:36-05:00 Sgt John Koliha 1231042

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>So much of this discussion is dejavu. If you go back just a few years to the ending of DADT, the same types of BS dire warnings were flying about. The actuality was more of a yawn.<br /><br />More importantly: when President Truman racialy integraed the military, all the dire warnings against it were from highly regarded generals like 5 Star Omar Bradley and degenerated into the same tiresome drivel we're hearing and reading now.<br /><br />All the horrific "might happens" and inane complaints will eventually be proven to be so much blivet. Just as it has previously. The Military is no more the sole domain of White Males. As it should be in a free democratic society, it must include ALL groups and members if we are to be true to the ideals we ask the Military to protect. <br /><br />Finally, if you are unable to Salute, say "Aye, Aye Sir" and enthusiastically carry out the letter and spirit of the order; then honor dictate thats you get out of the way.

2016-01-12T12:43:46-05:00 2016-01-12T12:43:46-05:00 GySgt Jim Appodaca 1231394

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>This is a terrible decision. Women cannot physically perform at the levels that are required. In a combat situation it weakens the strength of the unit. Say what you like but we would have more sense of responsibility to make sure nothing happens to the female.

2016-01-12T14:49:52-05:00 2016-01-12T14:49:52-05:00 Sgt Christopher Colbert 1231513

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I do not think they will be able to sustain themselves. The conditions experience in combat such as not knowing when the next shower is going to be, gear weight, and the ability to handle bathroom business on the move will eventually weed them away. I seriously doubt a grunt unit will ever be willing to go recover air dropped feminine products because the females assigned to combat roles have ran out.

2016-01-12T15:30:05-05:00 2016-01-12T15:30:05-05:00 Cpl Russ Case 1231541

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I think the only ones who have an idea if these women can perform...<br />Are grunts... So I hope all the comments are from said GRUNTS...

2016-01-12T15:41:56-05:00 2016-01-12T15:41:56-05:00 1SG Private RallyPoint Member 1231755

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I wonder, based on your post, how you intend on treating a fellow female soldier in a combat MOS

2016-01-12T16:57:05-05:00 2016-01-12T16:57:05-05:00 Maj Ken Brown 1232183

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Well, folks, should we lower the bar for physical fitness the same way we did in the 70's when there were two separate PFT's, separate quarters, separate standards for markmanship (women weren't required to qualify) and separate standards for enlistment?<br /><br />Or should we make becoming a Marine just as tough for women as we make it for men? Every male Marine is a rifleman. Why should women be treated any differently? Otherwise, women should be satisfied knowing that they're performing a task which releases a man for combat. I've met plenty of women who can cut it as riflemen. Let's make damned sure that no Marine's ghost ever complains that his training wasn't tough enough.

2016-01-12T19:33:51-05:00 2016-01-12T19:33:51-05:00 GySgt Robert Womble 1232347

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I personally was forced to serve with 2 WM's during Desert Storm. There were times they could not carry their own weight when it came to the job and one had a boyfriend in the next pos so she was always visiting him. That being said, as a male, I have a hard time having to deal with the possible issues of a WM being taken captive and the ensuing torture. All that being said, if a WM is willing and capable of serving knowing all the afore mentioned items, let her join. But the standards should not be lowered whether male or female.

2016-01-12T20:55:43-05:00 2016-01-12T20:55:43-05:00 Capt Michael Halpin 1232637

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>In the politically correct fantasy world we live in today we are told that men and women are interchangeable. Total nonsense. Women have no place in extended infantry combat operations. Not only are they not physically up to it, most are not emotionally up to it, only 1% of women in the military have any desire to serve in the infantry, but most importantly the nature of men and women in close quarters over an extended period will destroy the chemistry and esprit de corps the unit needs for success. Yes women can fight in defensive ground ops when necessary but they do not belong in the infantry anymore than I could be a Victoria's Secret model. Even the SECNAV who just ordered the Marines to put women in the infantry, and to change the name infantrymen, also ordered them not to tell him how it will harm combat effectiveness. He doesn't want to hear it, but he knows it will.

2016-01-12T23:33:46-05:00 2016-01-12T23:33:46-05:00 LCpl Steve Smith 1232659

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>You know this argument rings as familiar as it did for Black military personnel in WWI and WWII, and many other 1st. In the military and the excuses they used back then as an excuse to keep the old statuesque. Fear of Change is always big in the military, Males in now a days will think Female's will get easier requirements to complete S.O.I. or that if the have to meet Male Standards and they pass, it will make it even more embarrassing for those that couldn't hack. To me if they can pass all the requirements to become a Grunt at the standards already set for their Male Counterparts more power to em. This change was going to happen sooner or later anyway it mightiest well be now then when we are having a man power issue in the grunts and just throw something together substandard costing us more lives.

2016-01-12T23:40:48-05:00 2016-01-12T23:40:48-05:00 Cpl Daniel Bilbrautluyando 1232702

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I don't think it is a good idea. Women are built differently. They have different needs. War is Hell, to be sure. The thought may be a patriotic and noble one, but likely not well a thought out one. I also understand that women wish for equality. If women who volunteer for military service, and choose a combat MOS, they need to be held to the SAME standards as their male counterparts. No sugarcoating ANYTHING. Carry your own gear. Bleed, sweat, and even die like the men do.

2016-01-13T00:17:43-05:00 2016-01-13T00:17:43-05:00 Sgt Michael Selbach 1232766

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>If standards where equalized then its a mute point...you make it then you make it

2016-01-13T01:29:20-05:00 2016-01-13T01:29:20-05:00 Sgt Private RallyPoint Member 1234102

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Females and males should be treated the same: with respect!

2016-01-13T16:11:31-05:00 2016-01-13T16:11:31-05:00 Cpl Private RallyPoint Member 1234141

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The Corps did a 9 month study on mixed gender infantry unit, and discovered what everyone else knew already. High injuries, less accurate fire, less likely to complete mission objectives. Most of the males in the Corps don't pack the gear to be grunts, I fail to see why they should open up combat arms MOS in the name of "fairness" and "equality." <br /><a target="_blank" href="http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2015/09/10/mixed-gender-teams-come-up-short-marines-infantry-experiment/71979146/?from=global&amp;autologin=">http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2015/09/10/mixed-gender-teams-come-up-short-marines-infantry-experiment/71979146/?from=global&amp;autologin=</a> <div class="pta-link-card answers-template-image type-default"> <div class="pta-link-card-picture"> <img src="https://d26horl2n8pviu.cloudfront.net/link_data_pictures/images/000/036/308/qrc/635774803794169050-MAR-GCEITF-mech2.JPG?1452720595"> </div> <div class="pta-link-card-content"> <p class="pta-link-card-title"> <a target="blank" href="http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2015/09/10/mixed-gender-teams-come-up-short-marines-infantry-experiment/71979146/?from=global&amp;autologin=">Mixed-gender teams come up short in Marines&#39; infantry experiment</a> </p> <p class="pta-link-card-description">Editor&#39;s note: This story was originally published at 12:01 p.m.</p> </div> <div class="clearfix"></div> </div>

2016-01-13T16:30:44-05:00 2016-01-13T16:30:44-05:00 1SG Private RallyPoint Member 1234390

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Like females!!!

2016-01-13T18:45:36-05:00 2016-01-13T18:45:36-05:00 COL John Hudson 1234605

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>In Iraq, I had five up-armored Hmmwvs containing 20 highly trained/aggressive Army soldiers or Marines (depending on rotation at that time) escorting my Level 6 armored Ford Excursion on my daily missions outside the wire. Those vehicle&#39;s carried M2 50Cal, 40mm Grenade launcher, 7.62 M60 machine guns, 5.56 SAW, any and/or all of the above including hand grenades, anti-tank and personal weapons. On one mission, I took note of a solder in the cupola of one Hmmwv....short with blond hair. Speaking to her, I learned she was 100% checked out on that M2, knew it front to rear, had a tiger&#39;s heart no fear. Say something sexist to her and she would probably dent the head gear of the speaker of that nonsense. I will not argue that females may not be suited for ALL of the hard physically intensive combat jobs, but I&#39;m here to tell everyone out there that I&#39;ve served in FULL COMBAT with female soldiers and NEVER found any one of them wanting. Forgot all about the Female National Guard Sergeant that earned a combat Silver Star (and new Combat Action Badge) for her actions at Salman Pak, in Baghdad, Iraq? I walked the ground at Salman Pak many times and can tell anyone from personal experience that was a place you did NOT want to be. Give it up on dissing the whole &#39;female&#39; thing...they&#39;re here to stay and I for one am glad to have them at my back. Deal with problems one at a time and don&#39;t paint the entire sisterhood with the same brush.

2016-01-13T21:21:30-05:00 2016-01-13T21:21:30-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 1234928

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I'm combat arms. I don't care. MPs have done it for awhile. If they are in my platoon however I would want them with my platoon under my watch. I don't need some other platoon or company harassing my Soldiers. <br /><br />Infantry is a way of life - there are going to be bruised egos and even without females you could say the sharp line is often treaded on.

2016-01-14T04:41:27-05:00 2016-01-14T04:41:27-05:00 MAJ Ken Landgren 1235326

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I am afraid some units will be accommodating and others will prove a point to counter the women's ability to go to combat.

2016-01-14T10:40:26-05:00 2016-01-14T10:40:26-05:00 SPC Private RallyPoint Member 1236216

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Honestly, bring them on. If they want to wear my cord, they&#39;re gonna earn it just the same. And I will treat them by the same standards that I will treat Joe Snuffy. She can&#39;t keep up? That&#39;s fine. She&#39;ll get concurrent PT. She can&#39;t carry her weight? That&#39;s okay too. More ruck marches. Same as I would do for any of my males that are slacking on the standards. I&#39;m no PT stud myself, but I can keep up with the guys next to me. And they will too, or they will find a quick boot to the rear end toward the door.

2016-01-14T16:31:41-05:00 2016-01-14T16:31:41-05:00 LCpl Leon Hall 1236363

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>not a good idea. infantry is about having the strongest and fittest grunts so they can go out and fight and win wars, And compared to men, more than 90% of women can't compete with men when it comes down to it. strength, speed, stamina, endurance, and overall physical ability especially in infantry are somethings that men excel at over most women. But hey if they want to put them in go ahead and good luck.

2016-01-14T17:40:29-05:00 2016-01-14T17:40:29-05:00 GySgt Charles O'Connell 1236515

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Sec Nav, against the counsel of Gen Officers, has ordered this change. Shortly he will be gone, and in his wake it will be the small unit leader that has to make the best of this. But as I've mentioned before I don't see there being a big rush to the recruiting offices by females looking to sign up for a combat arm, anymore than I see active duty females rushing to the career planner requesting a Lat Move.

2016-01-14T19:05:51-05:00 2016-01-14T19:05:51-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 1237392

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Here&#39;s how we treat females in EOD: The same. <br />If they can handle it and keep up, they have a place. <br />If they can&#39;t, then they will be cast aside. The same as a male in this MOS. <br />I don&#39;t care if 100 females try and only 1 makes it through training. That one has a place here.

2016-01-15T09:40:09-05:00 2016-01-15T09:40:09-05:00 Cpl Francis DeGrazia 1237859

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Look what they did to the Japanese Americans in WWII placed them in concentration camps,but they<br />fought fearlessly in Europe.Look what they did to our black troops in WWII and they did the same.How can someone judge what ANY person is going to do in mortal combat ? The only thing you<br />can do is train them until you are pretty sure of what they can do in mortal combat.

2016-01-15T12:38:36-05:00 2016-01-15T12:38:36-05:00 Cpl Jeffrey Zaines 1238735

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Yes I think that women should have the right to choose any combat related MOS. that they want. With that being said, I understand some of your concerns,(strength, durability, etc...). Listen if they can pass through the schooling, as well as a man they should get the opportunity. I also know that school and combat are two different things. So after school maybe they should have to undergo a more rigorous real combat endurance and strength course to see if they can hold up. However there are many women with more guts, strength, loyalty, and courage than a lot of men. So don't be so quick to dismiss women in a combat MOS.

2016-01-15T20:32:18-05:00 2016-01-15T20:32:18-05:00 Cpl Private RallyPoint Member 1238858

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Ah SGT Wiley, when someone shoves facts at you that you don't agree with, down vote and block. You are exactly the kind of poisonous INDIVIDUAL who has no business in combat arms. How you became an NCO with that attitude is beyond me.

2016-01-15T21:46:23-05:00 2016-01-15T21:46:23-05:00 COL John Hudson 1249352

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The question itself is irrelevant. It's not about gender...it's about "OPPORTUNITY." Every man-jack of you out there has some anecdotal experience that shapes your opinion...but stop painting the entire universe with the same brush! I've participated - boots on the ground and NOT behind a desk - in three wars, having walked the face of this planet for FIVE YEARS AND EIGHT MONTHS in full combat (Vietnam, Balkan Conflict, Iraq). I've served side-by-side with females and NEVER found any one of them wanting. Remember Leigh Ann Hester, a NATIONAL GUARD MP out of Kentucky? She and her fellow solders were attacked by an enemy ambush in close quarter combat in 2005 at Salman Pak, Iraq...didn't throw down her weapon, run away, or soil herself. She engaged a superior force and took out as many enemy combatants or more than any other soldier with her and earned a Silver Star for her heroic actions (first female since WWII to do so and first EVER to be cited for close quarter combat). I walked that ground at Salman Pak numerous times and can tell all of you out there that was NOT a place you wanted to be. So much for any asinine opinion about 'week-end warriors.' I would stand side-by-side with any female like that at any time! The rules have been changed. Every door and glass ceiling has been eliminated. Get over it. Females are here to stay and in equal measure to ANY MAN will demonstrate the age old adage that there "is lesser and greater in all things," and I will add - "regardless of gender."

2016-01-21T07:56:35-05:00 2016-01-21T07:56:35-05:00 SPC Dee Bartlett 1249526

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>-Trying to determine how males are going to respond to that is a crap shoot. Everyone has their own frustration or satisfaction with the changes occurring with combat MOSs.<br />-Statistically, the military spends more funds on legal issues and drug and alcohol related treatment for men in the military than they do on maternity leave for the women.<br />-If you have to carry some chick's weapon to the motor pool then you're the idiot for helping her.<br /><br />My experience is if women wanna do the do, do it, but don't change the standards or the expectations. My experience also taught me that for every damself in distress who has lost her weapon, there is some idiot in shining armor willing "to save" her. <br /><br />Afterall, I wear an 8.5 double AA narrow shoe, and I had to wear those big ol' yucky combat boots that make me look like I have duck feet.<br /><br />"Embrace the suck, bitches!"

2016-01-21T09:35:38-05:00 2016-01-21T09:35:38-05:00 CPT Gary Jugenheimer 1249938

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I do not believe that a female is any worse or better than any male...other than anatomy males and females are equal....we have over time studied, maybe over studied, the likes and differences of males and females...and because of this we now have documentation, good or bad that we can embrace when an episode is not to our liking.....I think we have to go beyond this context and realize that we, male and female are finally taking on comparable roles in society and it should be no different in the military.....yes, we eat together, sleep close to one another, pee together, shower together and already now and more so in the future fight together.....we have to resolve ourselves both male and female that we can do this and we can do this successfully...and at the same time be constantly aware of our physical differences and make allowances whether the individual be a female or a male in order to complete the mission successfully!

2016-01-21T11:57:28-05:00 2016-01-21T11:57:28-05:00 GySgt Douglas Dare 1264566

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Just as men. Bullets don't have agendas political or otherwise so get ready for allot of body bags to be filled. The question should be, How will America accept female KIA's?

2016-01-28T11:56:56-05:00 2016-01-28T11:56:56-05:00 LTC Stephen F. 1280534

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>God only knows <a class="dark-link bold-link" role="profile-hover" data-qtip-container="body" data-id="527810" data-source-page-controller="question_response_contents" href="/profiles/527810-maj-ken-landgren">MAJ Ken Landgren</a>.<br />Women have been supporting combat formations for some time. When I was in an infantry battalion in the early 1980s we had women at Brigade level and some of the support slice units.<br />In those days we were preparing for a global war of epic proportions where nobody would be safe. Our GDB mission was die in place and bide time for major formations to arrive.<br />In the current warfighting environment the situation is much more fluid with no clear lines of battle or non-combatants. Since our enemies don't follow the geneva or hague conventions they indiscriminately target men, women or children.

2016-02-04T16:06:01-05:00 2016-02-04T16:06:01-05:00 SSG Daniel Deiler 1280537

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Not sure. There&#39;s going to be a lot of resistance down at the lower levels that&#39;s for sure. I&#39;m curious about how cases such as the one new combat engineer recruit / Soldier from Tennessee who ended up going AWOL recently after failing to return from convalescent leave will affect public and military opinion about this new policy.

2016-02-04T16:07:48-05:00 2016-02-04T16:07:48-05:00 Capt Walter Miller 1280544

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The ones that can hack it will do fine.<br /><br />Walt

2016-02-04T16:09:38-05:00 2016-02-04T16:09:38-05:00 Cpl Julio Rosa 1280554

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I imagine its like female in SWAT. They can kick a door open and squeeze a trigger just as well.

2016-02-04T16:11:30-05:00 2016-02-04T16:11:30-05:00 Sgt Able Snider 1369663

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The only thing I have taken away from this thread is the people that thinks it OK are the ones who were never in combat arms and never in combat arms in a war. They have no real knowledge of what grunts and the like go through. They have nothing to base their opinions on except how they "feel" about it.

2016-03-10T12:51:49-05:00 2016-03-10T12:51:49-05:00 PFC Tuan Trang 1370949

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>That is depend on they unit/person the female individual with, But i think all female should should be treated same.

2016-03-10T19:02:10-05:00 2016-03-10T19:02:10-05:00 SFC Dan McEuin 1386224

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>To answer that question, just think for a minute how armies historically used women in combat. From my research it is simple. Women were only used as a last resort when men were in short supply. Are we in that scenario now? The fact is women are, as a whole,not as capable as a man physically to handle the stress for long periods of time. The modern battlefield is different in many ways but when needed in a long term ground-pounding ass kicking they fall short. This is why historically women were left behind as encourager's and family raisers. To deviate from this is to invite disaster sociologically and is why cultures have avoided this scenario throughout human history. We think we can change this by being cute. We can't do that and be successful. This departure from common sense is a warning sign of a culture in decline. We have decided to change the God Given order for a humanistic idea that is against all human logic. God help us!

2016-03-17T13:06:42-04:00 2016-03-17T13:06:42-04:00 CMSgt Bill Ford 1386861

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Same PT Standards, either test them the same as men (across all AFSC/Rates/MOS) or combine the existing male/female and divide by two. A guy 5'3 is expected to Hump as well as a guy 6'3, so why should a 5'3 woman have it easier than a guy 5'3...field gear is the same weight for a guy as a gal. Selective Service registration needs to begin 1 Jan 2017 or the program needs to go all together. Many people post on Social Media that they want the program to go away (no one should be forced...blah...blah); I it think it is so the impact of women serving in combat is a abstract concept for most females, particularly female voters. It is easy to say yes to or support something if you think it will never impact you or yours.

2016-03-17T18:49:31-04:00 2016-03-17T18:49:31-04:00 SFC Melvin Brandenburg 6719558

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I would hope they would be treated with the respect they earn, the same as the rest.

2021-02-04T11:16:05-05:00 2021-02-04T11:16:05-05:00 CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member 6719575

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I think the leaders will do all they can to ensure the requirements of the Command and the female soldiers are fulfilled. They got their marching orders and understand them. Agreement with them is optional. Some may try to prove, others disprove the merits. To preserve good order they will try to ensure no favoritism is sought or granted. They need to make their concerns known up the CoC to assist overall Service strategy with assignments.

2021-02-04T11:29:30-05:00 2021-02-04T11:29:30-05:00 SPC David S. 6719838

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Women have been successfully engaging enemy combatant for years in other countries. Yes at times there can be horrific consequences but to me that says more about how f&#39;uped men are than women. If anything it shows that woman can be just as brave as men in knowing the additional risks of rape and torture. If a women wants to take part in combat seems she is already geared a bit differently in terms of social norms and roles based on gender as such I feel a warrior&#39;s ethos can take root in female form. A women wants to chew some dirt God bless and good luck. <br /><br /><a target="_blank" href="https://www.npr.org/2013/03/18/174444738/women-in-combat-and-the-price-they-pay">https://www.npr.org/2013/03/18/174444738/women-in-combat-and-the-price-they-pay</a> <br /><br /><a target="_blank" href="https://www.kurdistan24.net/en/story/14536-Exclusive-from-Afrin:-Syrian-Kurds-outraged-over-mutilation-of-YPJ-female-fighter">https://www.kurdistan24.net/en/story/14536-Exclusive-from-Afrin:-Syrian-Kurds-outraged-over-mutilation-of-YPJ-female-fighter</a> <div class="pta-link-card answers-template-image type-default"> <div class="pta-link-card-picture"> <img src="https://d26horl2n8pviu.cloudfront.net/link_data_pictures/images/000/603/183/qrc/women_fet5_wide-a6217d70f756d1e28e14513765774b0bdabe5e1e.jpg?1612463107"> </div> <div class="pta-link-card-content"> <p class="pta-link-card-title"> <a target="blank" href="https://www.npr.org/2013/03/18/174444738/women-in-combat-and-the-price-they-pay">Women In Combat, And The Price They Pay</a> </p> <p class="pta-link-card-description">For years, the Army has effectively ignored the ban against women in combat, though it&#39;s still hard for them to receive full recognition for what they&#39;ve achieved. &quot;Battle-fatigued female soldiers&quot; is a new and uneasy concept for American society.</p> </div> <div class="clearfix"></div> </div>

2021-02-04T13:25:08-05:00 2021-02-04T13:25:08-05:00 SFC Melvin Brandenburg 6738751

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I hope the same. I won&#39;t carry another person&#39;s gear, male of female. Whomever fills a combat arms MOS had better be able to pull their weight, because if they can&#39;t they are a drain on mission effectiveness. If a woman can do the job, then by all means let her do it. If a man can&#39;t do the job, by all means get that person to a CSS MOS

2021-02-11T15:08:54-05:00 2021-02-11T15:08:54-05:00 2016-01-08T20:14:40-05:00