How do you treat Service Members with a Shaving Profile?

2015-05-18T13:02:12-04:00

Do you discriminate against Service Members with a Shaving Profile?
Do you approach a Service Member if you think they haven't shaved?
How do you approach them?

I have seen leaders talk about Soldiers, and spread rumors that the Soldier doesn't care because they don't shave, or shave well, when the leaders have not confronted the Soldier about their shaving, when the Soldier had a shaving profile. I have seen Soldiers who are consistently confronted about their shaving despite having a profile. How does your unit handle Soldiers who have a shaving profile?

Army Regulation 670-1 1-8 2(c), states that “males will keep their face clean shaven when in uniform or in civilian clothes on duty. Mustaches are permitted; if worn, males will keep mustaches neatly trimmed, tapered, and tidy. Mustaches will not present a chopped off or bushy appearance, and no portion of the mustache will cover the upper lip line or extend sideways beyond a vertical line drawn upward from the corners of the mouth.

Handlebar mustaches, goatees, and beards are not authorized. If appropriate medical authority prescribes beard growth, the length required for medical treatment must be specified. For example, “The length of the beard will not exceed 1⁄4 inch” (see TB MED 287). Soldiers will keep the growth trimmed to the level specified by appropriate medical authority, but they are not authorized to shape the growth into goatee, or “Fu Manchu” or handlebar mustaches.”

Pictured CPT at the William Beaumont Army Medical Center who has a profile for shaving.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made May 18 at 2015 1:17 PM

2015-05-18T13:17:34-04:00

The way you do any soldier with a profile. You respect their needs, offer support, monitor their progress and insure when they come off profile, if applicable as some profiles can be permanent, they get back to standards.

Response by SPC Nate Lamphier made May 18 at 2015 1:49 PM

2015-05-18T13:49:39-04:00

I never had any issues with other Soldier's who had a "no-shave" profile. However, I was around them when they would shave and (in these situations) their face looked horrific. So, outside of flipping the Soldier some good nature crap about being able to sleep a few extra minutes in the morning...I or no one else would penalize them.

With that said, I'm not arrogant enough to think people wouldn't penalize them for something that was outside of their control.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made May 18 at 2015 3:07 PM

2015-05-18T15:07:37-04:00

I will say that being on a shaving profile is completely different for me as a SNCO then it was for me as a young A1C. As a young A1C working in the individual equipment section of base supply, I had a copy of my waiver lamented and taped to the customer service counter. Even had more than a few NCO's, SNCO's and even Officers tell me that "white guys don't need shaving waivers" As a E6+ I have never had anyone question it (even though I do carry it with me just in case) and have won awards all the way up to the MAJCOM and International levels.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2015 3:42 PM

2015-05-18T15:42:45-04:00

If it is trimmed to the shortest length possible (with clippers) I have no issue. However, the ones that take advantage and grow a beard, I'm not gonna lie, I'm jealous and hold a grudge.

Response by SFC Walter Mack made May 18 at 2015 4:18 PM

2015-05-18T16:18:15-04:00

I treat them with a massive amount of jealous rage! They sit there with their smug bearded faces looking back at me. I see it in their eyes. They think they're better than me because they have a beard. Maybe they're right, but they shouldn't rub it in!

Really, yup, I'm jealous, but beyond that, I'd treat them no different.

Response by LT Charles Baird made May 18 at 2015 4:43 PM

2015-05-18T16:43:16-04:00

If you have a waiver it is for a reason - once the waiver is presented I allow it as the military dictates and move on with our regular duties.

On a similar note, I once ran into a young Air Force NCO who had a shaving waiver due to Pseudofolliculitis barbae and he made the decision to get his facial hair lasered so it would not grow anymore thereby eliminating the problem. He told me he didn't like shaving anyway and wanted to be within regulations and to him it seemed to be the most logical solution for him. I thought it was interesting as at the time I had not heard of anyone having their facial hair removed with a laser to never grow back again; I have considered it on many occasions myself and may do it when older so I won't have that old man shave.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2015 4:46 PM

2015-05-18T16:46:51-04:00

With the same respect as a soldier without one AD LONG AS THE ABDIE by the profile

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2015 5:18 PM

2015-05-18T17:18:09-04:00

Speaking strictly from the Air Force point of view and my own personal experiences, I offer the following; The first problem with shaving waivers is that the medical community/providers give them out to anyone who can produce a face that grows hair. Secondly, Commanders no longer have to sign them to make them official/valid (as was in years past), which removes unit leadership from the equation. 95% of those who "claim" to have a shaving waiver don't carry them (present SNCO - MSgt Copeland - excluded). Furthermore, there are two schools where shaving waivers are concerned. The sculptors and the compliers. The sculptors think wearing a goatee, or "lining up" their beard to have a thin clean line along their jawbone is good to go. These folks also like to push the envelop when standard measurement are concerned i.e. 1/4" or 3/4" it's all the same. The compliers are the ones who suffer, and ultimately the medical providers are just too lazy, and it's just too easy to give a shaving waiver to anyone who asks for one so they do. This frees up valuable treatment time that can be dedicated to sick people. Just like anywhere else in the military, those who bend/break the rules ruin it for all the rest who comply. They cast doubt on innocent people, and breed cynicism throughout the ranks. That's why I instinctively despise shaving waivers, because I have seen, and do believe there are a large number of people out there that don't need them and who are simply abusing the system for the trivial thrill they get out of doing so. Do I treat them differently? I don't know, I never gave it much thought, but if they don't have the waiver on them, I certainly read them the riot act.

Response by Cpl James Weathers made May 18 at 2015 6:29 PM

2015-05-18T18:29:16-04:00

Shaving waivers.?! I'm gonna be honest I get bumps and irritation and would never dream of getting one. Good luck getting one In any command I was ever in. As my Sgtmaj put it " if you can't shave, that's fine, you will not deploy. You are not RFI and cannot get a proper seal on your gas mask may be the technical reason given; but realistically you are not in proper uniform in my eyes and if you can't handle some burning on your neck and face than let me explain to my wife and kids that the guy who can't shave because it hurts to bad is the best I got to bring me home." Somewhat paraphrased was much more offensive. Try showing up to work without a shave after that speech. Haha I'm sure it varies by command In the Marine Corps, but rather it was an order or not shave profiles would be thrown to the cooks or motor T...

Response by SrA Edward Vong made May 19 at 2015 11:33 AM

2015-05-19T11:33:36-04:00

The same way I treat everyone else, with respect.

Response by SFC Joseph James made May 19 at 2015 11:36 AM

2015-05-19T11:36:14-04:00

If you had a no shaving profile you would have to pin it to your uniform because ever NCO and Officer that doesn't personally know you will get in your face. Lol

Response by MSG Morgan Fiszel, CPCM, CFCM made May 20 at 2015 7:05 AM

2015-05-20T07:05:37-04:00

If it were an older person with rank I would assume they know. If it were a young joe I might start the conversation off by saying "in a rush this morning"? You never know; there are many valid reasons. Did they work overnight or pull a double? Did they have some sort of a family emergency? I might wait to see if it is a recurring issue. What if it is a one time thing and it is a super high speed Soldier that had some bigger issue that day? MAYBE IT'S SF! There is nothing more annoying that the political and responsibility-free SGM that has nothing better to do than walk around blindly doing on the spot corrections.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2015 12:05 PM

2015-05-23T12:05:38-04:00

Honestly? I'm gonna challenge them on the profile. If it's legit (carrying the profile), CM. If it's not, I'm gonna recommend the hammer.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2015 5:41 PM

2015-05-25T17:41:27-04:00

I will not lie to you, when I see a Soldier regardless of rank with a shaving profile beard it makes me do a double take. Having a shaving profile doesn't bother me. What bothers me is when a Soldier abuses the profile regulation. Even I have a noticeable 5 o'clock shadow prior to 1600, so I wouldn't want anyone passing unsolicited judgement on me unless I was abusing the system.

Response by Sgt Joseph Baker made Dec 8 at 2016 12:17 AM

2016-12-08T00:17:44-05:00

Being a Marine, I never even heard of a no-shaving chit. There were dark-green Marines that used some kind of shaving alternative I believe, but no one was walking around with anything remotely resembling a beard.

Response by Sgt Joseph Baker made Dec 8 at 2016 12:28 AM

2016-12-08T00:28:15-05:00

I spent all 6 years with shaving irritation on my neck. I was sure glad I didn't have to shave every day when I got out. But I offer some shaving advice that might help someone who gets rash. First thing is throw away those cheap Bic single-blade razors, that may be the biggest mistake. They are cheap for a reason. I now shave with a multi-blade razor, minimum of three but a four-blade is better. If they sold a twenty-blade razor I would buy it. They cost money, but I can tell you that overnight they greatly reduced shaving irritation for me, like 80% less. Those four blades glide over your skin without digging in much better than cheap one or two blade razors. Hope this helps a fellow red-neck.

Response by PO1 Donald Hammond made Aug 2 at 2017 6:41 PM

2017-08-02T18:41:33-04:00

I remember all the crap I took when I had a "no haircut" chit. Of course we were out to sea on a submarine. I was on medicated shampoo for an issue with my scalp. But just as we were about to pull into port the XO ordered me to get a hair cut and "screw the chit". The boat barber made sure I was the last one he gave a hair cut to and had the boat buy new blades.

Oh and during that time we could have beards.

Response by SCPO Jeffrey Zercie made Aug 3 at 2017 7:32 PM

2017-08-03T19:32:25-04:00

Tell that to spec ops

Response by PO2 Brad Broerman made Aug 3 at 2017 11:32 PM

2017-08-03T23:32:07-04:00

Always stayed in regulation when i was in... even though i had really bad razor burn... Didn't care how much it hurt.

Response by SPC Tommy Faircloth made Aug 6 at 2017 3:07 PM

2017-08-06T15:07:08-04:00

Dumbest thing to get a profile for. Not jealous of them. I think it's unprofessional and people only get them because they can. They go and bullshit the PA and complain about one little tiny bump that could just be an ingrown hair and automatically "shaving profile". Too easy to be a man and stuck it up. After a while your skin adapts to it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2017 6:00 PM

2017-08-06T18:00:12-04:00

Treat them like any other Soldier. It's just a shaving profile. Bigger things to worry about.

Response by Capt Dwayne Conyers made Aug 6 at 2017 9:03 PM

2017-08-06T21:03:56-04:00

I had one. Had to go to clinic twice a week to have ingrown hairs extricated.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2017 5:43 PM

2017-12-11T17:43:35-05:00

i have a permanent shaving profile. its not just because the freaking hair is curly or because of rash on my neck. I get puss filled hair bumps all around my face. it doesn't matter if I use a 4 bladed razor, electric razor, or clippers I still get the puss filled hair bumps everywhere. so before you talk shit or pass judgement just know the fucking shit is painful to deal with. but I guess all of you talking shit are just so badass.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2019 6:35 PM

2019-02-21T18:35:41-05:00

The only issue I have with anyone with a shaving profile is the ones that shape up their facial hair which is not permitted by regulation

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2019 7:07 AM

2019-02-23T07:07:01-05:00

I am way late but will comment anyway, as I have the Soldier and Provider's perspective. As a Healthcare Provider and someone that writes these profiles, as the advocate for the Soldier's health, and as someone that has had a shaving profile, I have had many instances over the years, especially while Enlisted, in which my shaving profile was an issue. I had a Senior NCO tell me that Soldiers wouldn't respect me because I looked different. I have also had a Battalion Commander talk of sending troops back to Kuwait from Mosul if they had a shaving profile. As someone that looks different, you immediately stand out and draw attention. Most people won't say anything, the ones that do typically either do a spot-check just to make sure you are doing the right thing, or to make some smart remark. Now, as a Captain and someone with actual medical training and licensing, most of the time I am educating Commanders about what they can and cannot do in regards to shaving profiles and the management of PFB under TB MED 287. Over the last few years, since serving with an SF group, I don't have to spend much time on shaving issues. That's an issue I typically only have to deal with when working with conventional units.

Response by SGT Logan Clarke made Jan 18 at 2020 6:35 PM

2020-01-18T18:35:49-05:00

I never treated them any differently but it was always like I had to shave twice a day and these guys get razor burn Or bumps it made me regret never getting one

Response by SFC Don Ward made Jan 18 at 2020 10:21 PM

2020-01-18T22:21:11-05:00

Wow! What about the soldier that got the religious exemption for Norse god worship

Response by SSG Darrell Peters made Jan 18 at 2020 11:01 PM

2020-01-18T23:01:11-05:00

As a medic I issued many shaving profiles. None I can remember being permeate. What you need to realize is this is a treatable condition. Here is the problem insuring the soldier keeps regular appointments to clear the condition up. After I retired I was reading an article about new treatments the army is using for this condition. It can be severe when they are massive bumps on the face. better to catch it early follow a prescribed treatment
This condition is caused by ingrown hair and can be rather nasty and cause infections. The bumps must heal before a close shave can occur. This condition is more common in certain ethnic groups and a command needs to be mindful of this to avoid charges of racial prejudice. With this in mind this condition can be treated. I do not know the current army's treatment protocol how ever it is my understanding it is effective. Not shaving is a part of the treatment also skin application of ointments and oral medication. So if a soldier has a shaving profile not shaving is only part of the treatment. Using medication and follow ups to the TMC to insure the condition is cleared up and how to maintain healthy skin to insure it will not reoccur is also apart of the treatment. Yet no two cases are alike. When It comes to medical condtions comands usually lack in a full understanding on how they are treated and what is best for the soldier.

Response by SFC Bill Kurtz made Jan 19 at 2020 3:11 AM

2020-01-19T03:11:43-05:00

Whatever happened to the creams and powders that dissolved that hair. I used kiddy Nair on my neck rather than look grubby,

Response by SPC Joseph McCarthy made Jan 20 at 2020 3:26 PM

2020-01-20T15:26:01-05:00

Police that moosetache!!!

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2020 11:22 AM

2020-04-03T11:22:33-04:00

Ensure it is neat and trimmed. When appropriate, ask a senior NCO to help show him some techniques to reduce razor burn. Often it's a younger Soldier that doesn't know how to properly shave. Sometimes it is a medical condition or genetics - in this case I'd refer back to my first sentence.

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Sep 4 at 2020 1:53 AM

2020-09-04T01:53:22-04:00

I have always thought that the Army's shaving regulations were BS anyway, especially in the field, and when having to Camo up each day with that lovely Light Green and Loam. And why, the reason given was always the protective mask...yeah OK....NO. We have not had a Gas attack on us since oh, let's see ... 1918? So, since we have not had a gas attack on us overseas in over a century...AND... We have never had a gas attack on us in CONUS...AND...no beard, no matter how thick takes more than 18 hours to shave off (82d AIRBORNE 18 hour Alert sequence timeline)...AND... Profiles and Religious accommodations can be made...AND SF units grow beards to communicate with the Locals....Thus indicating that a Beard does NOT indicate a sub-standard Soldier...I say BEARDS FOR ALL...Works for England and Germany.

Response by Kenn Evans made Sep 17 at 2020 5:01 PM

2020-09-17T17:01:32-04:00

https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/tbmed287.pdf for reference.

tbmed287.pdf

Response by CPT Carolyn Andrews made Sep 20 at 2020 12:27 PM

2020-09-20T12:27:12-04:00

You treat anyone with a profile like anybody else. Just because they have a profile, doesn't mean you treat them any differently. U treat them like a no profile would be treated.

Response by CPT Carolyn Andrews made Sep 26 at 2020 2:03 AM

2020-09-26T02:03:36-04:00

U treat all soldiers with the same respect as U want to be treated.
Doesn't matter what kind of profile the soldiers have, they are in the same Army as U R in and need to be shown the same respect U would want to be given .

Response by MSgt Marvin Kinderknecht made Jun 6 at 2021 4:09 PM

2021-06-06T16:09:45-04:00

I Love it. IF APPROPRIATE MEDICAL AUTHORITY NUFFF SAID.