How does/can the Army (compo 1, 2, &3) retain highly skilled low density MOS with high operational demand?

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 Mar 2020 06:52:52 -0400

This isn't specific to Acquisition but that's what made me ask because i don't have a good answer, or at least a good answer that is likely to be implemented. It takes at least 2 years to make a certified Acquisition NCO or Officer and any one of them can leave the Army to make 6 figures. I have a hard time giving Soldiers reasons to stay in.

Response by Lt Col Charlie Brown made Mar 8 at 2020 7:28 AM

Lt Col Charlie Brown — Sun, 08 Mar 2020 07:28:48 -0400

Bonuses, good bosses, opportunities for further education.

Response by LTC Kevin B. made Mar 8 at 2020 7:38 AM

LTC Kevin B. — Sun, 08 Mar 2020 07:38:43 -0400

If retention is that bad, and the skillset is that critical, the Army should implement sufficient retention bonuses to make the financial benefits of leaving roughly equal to the benefits of staying. Unfortunately, the Army doesn't have a good track record of recognizing when/where they need to implement financial retention policies in a proactive and effective manner that avoids a critical mission impact. The Army normally only does it in a reactive manner, once a critical loss is adversely impacting the mission. Short of any financial incentives, the Army will have to rely on more intangible (i.e. non-financial) incentives, like giving them assignments of choice, great leadership, great work environments, etc., while also selling them on the healthcare/retirement benefits and appealing to their sense of patriotism.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2020 8:23 AM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 Mar 2020 08:23:22 -0400

$$$

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2020 2:01 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 Mar 2020 14:01:03 -0400

I think the larger issue is that HQDA strength managers don't understand developmental requirements for our field. This isn't a IET and done MOS. Until we grow the field to make strength management manageable, we will continue to have problems. I believe the main issue is OPTEMPO at the moment... too many missions, not enough soldiers.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2020 9:34 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 Mar 2020 21:34:27 -0400

Simple answer, don’t make 51C a boarded MOS for entry. 51C is such a lucrative MOS that individuals strive because it seems like such a cush job, but then you make it impossible for people to get in especially when you are sitting at 93% authorized strength

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2020 1:07 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 Mar 2020 01:07:37 -0400

Sir,

You mentioned earlier there has been push against a Warrant Officer program, but that would be my first suggestion. One of the biggest reasons I see extremely capable NCOs leave is because they aren't utilized in their field, or their potential seems squandered, so they move on. It's a systemic problem I've witnessed in the MI Corps, but at least we have warrants and that keeps encourages some of our most competent cadre to stick around.

Additionally, we love to talk about money, but I think quality of life separate from money is probably just as important, if not more so, for many Soldiers. I think implementation of special schooling opportunities/training with industry with service commitments, and possible special college education programs (full time masters in related field for X number of years of returned service) would go a long way. As of now many similar programs exist Army wide or in other career fields, but these opportunities need to be more accessible, and possibly placed into the career development map.

V/R
SSG Mullet

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2020 11:39 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 Mar 2020 11:39:29 -0400

I am going to speak on this in regards to 68S:

My Preventive Medicine unit is a 13 pax unit. I am slotted to have an ESO (O-4) as the CO, an Entomologist (O-3) as the XO, SFC 68S x1, SSG 68S x3, SGT 68S x3, SPC 68S x3, SPC 91B x1. This is my MTOE. What I actually have is a CPT Entomologist as my CO, no XO, I'm the 7 slot, 1 SSG, 1 SPC, and PV2 mechanic (Pre IET).

For initial recruitment, 68S is rarely...if ever..advertised. To add weight to this, I never heard/knew of Preventive Medicine until 2009...and I was stationed at LRMC where USAPHC-Europe is located. Unless a Recruit comes in specifically requesting this MOS, no one is going to know about it. My Commander and I have pushed our dire shortage of personnel to our BN, to our BDE, to our Operational Command. What we are told from everyone higher is that we need to work with the Recruiters that are local to our unit (Located at FT Snelling, MN) and tell them what we need. And we have done that. The problem is that the best we can do with this is make phone calls to the Recruiting stations and inform them of our requests. At the end of the day, we all know the Recruiters are going to recruit the MOSs they need to. Unless I can get my unit to do a Home Station AT where we literally travel with Recruiters....which will never happen since my BDE CDR said Home Station ATs will never happen....we cannot effect proper change in my numbers.

For Retention of 68S: Yea, there are some good bonuses out there, but not enough to entice people to stay. Being sent to the same CTEs year after year (McCoy or Liggett) is a severe moral crusher. When we do finally get a cool mission...for example going to support AFRICOM.....people get all stoked then bummed bigger than shit when AFRICOM is scrubbed and are now being sent to McCoy this summer. I swear, I would rather get a second vasectomy performed by my ex wife while flying off a cliff than go back to that place. Another big issue with retention, is PME class seats. There are Soldiers that are doing everything they can to get in the training pipe by completing all of their pre-reqs for what ever NCOES level they need, but class seats are at a premium...giving that there are only a certain amount of seat quotas within USAR...not to mention the small amount of times these classes are even given. This is why Soldiers in low density, highly skilled MOSs in the USAR end up Reclassifying or getting out all together.

Until such time as USAREC understands that these units NEED these Soldiers desperately...until such time as higher level of Commanders actually fight to fill these empty slots (instead of just telling DRU commanders to "figure it out")....until such time as class seat quotas increase and the number of classes increase, this will continue to be a problem.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2020 12:38 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 Mar 2020 12:38:02 -0400

I joined after 20 years in business/finance. So I have an economic point of view on the matter. The worse a job is the more it is going to have to give pay/benefits to retain. The benefits the military pays has been trying to put itself on par with corporate america, but without ratcheting down the "suck" part of the equation.

Wait till the full impact of the new retirement plan, which to it's credit is on par with many corporate plans, and hilariously increased the mobility of the employee ability to "take it with him", while at the same time effectively evaporated the biggest incentive to remain in the Reserves.

Education benefits????? Well, those aren't there either. Not any more than what one can get flipping burgers. McDonald's has a tuition assistance program as well, and the employees don't have to withdraw from an entire semester because they get hit with a 29 day AT in the middle of the spring, or actually have to work an extra weekend a month to earn the inventive.

Several yeas ago the Army even took tuition assistance away for a split second during budget fighting in congress, and got their collective general pee-pee slapped and quickly reverse the idea, but not without showing all service members what they are willing to take away.

I did the math. I could literally get paid more (as a reservist) flipping burgers during the weekend than I do as the COMPANY COMMANDER (when you consider all the hours I put in as an hourly rate).

The last remaining thing yet to be taken away from us is essentially nearly free health care ($50/mo for myself) which was pushing $300 a month against my civilian program.

Effectively, what I think is happening is that the economic benefit of being the the military is dissolving at lower and lower ranks. i.e. one doesn't have to do 2-3 enlistments before something better shows up. Young soldiers are figuring that out before they even finish their first commitment and are looking for the exit LONG before they vest anything worth sticking around for.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2020 12:46 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 Mar 2020 12:46:36 -0400

As well, when I was in BCT there was a young soldier that that was active duty with EOD in his contract with a $20K bonus upon OED gradation. As a company commander of a QM unit my 42A (warehouse clerk) were getting $20K bonuses merely to STAY IN the reserves. No additional school or any action needed to earn the $20K, just STAY IN the reserves in their current MOS.

So as pointed out, the Army does provide incentives, but not without being long behind the curve. So much to the point it started giving out cash incentives for warehouse clerks it use to give out to BOMB TECHS!!!!!!!!!!!

Response by SSG Brian G. made Mar 9 at 2020 12:48 PM

SSG Brian G. — Mon, 09 Mar 2020 12:48:56 -0400

The obvious is retention bonuses. We already have healthcare and the like that is hands above what is in the civilian sector. The thing we cannot and will not ever be able to compete with is pay. In the end there is not really much that can be done to sweeten the pot to stay in, so to speak. There is only so far and so much that can be done as far as duty station of choice or in other tangibles before it becomes a cry of preferential treatment.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2020 10:47 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Mar 2020 10:47:42 -0400

Commission them.

The average Acquisitions NCO has an advanced degree and is at least DAWIA level II certified in Contracting, and every competent KO on the enlisted side knows that they're taking a paycut every time they put on the uniform. Both the Army and the Marine Corps suffer from attrition in Acquisitions because there is no direct pathway to a more education/certification appropriate position in uniform.

Now 10 years into my career, if I want to pursue a commission in Acquisitions, I'd need to leave my branch for 5-7 years before returning as a captain, at which point I won't be terribly far from retirement. I stay for the travel and adventure that comes with contingency contracting, but still I have to weigh the intangibles against the massive paycut that comes with coming into active duty.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 11 at 2020 3:32 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:32:58 -0400

I think from an RC perspective they could fill the positions if they reduced some of the barriers to entry. I was a civilian 1102 and had been awarded the 51C FA and Federally Recognized with that FA. I went into a 51C position with a Reserve element that supports EUCOM and was told by the 51C Manager at HRC I wasn't "Qualified" for the position because I hadn't been boarded by the reserves as a 51C.

I went through the process and was boarded, but when I left that position I was moving back stateside from overseas and the Contracting Units took over 6 months to contact me. By that time I had already accepted a position with another unit.

I think the reserve component could do a much better job of managing the force. Also has any thought been given to aligning the reserve component CCT's with USACE district locations? They have robust contracting shops across the country and could provide a great opportunity for OJT and centralized locations for teams. Just a thought.