How does your Commander's performance on their PT test influence your opinion of them?

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 29 Apr 2017 16:02:31 -0400

Do you think more or less of a commander if they get the maximum score possible on their APFT (or whatever test your respective service takes)? During my enlisted days I don't think I ever had a commander who was a PT stud. If I had a commander who couldn't pass a PT test I might honestly think less of them, but I don't know if they really need to blow it out of the water. Thoughts?

Response by LTC John Shaw made Apr 29 at 2017 4:33 PM

LTC John Shaw — Sat, 29 Apr 2017 16:33:49 -0400

This is the Army, you must pass the PT test and HT/WT and it should not be a question or even a close call. The closeness to the max depends on the unit and service.
If the unit/service is combat arms then 270 - 300 is very much the minimum expectation of a Commander of the unit or has been in my career of 30+ years.
I can't say that I have factored this into my assessment of the Commander, eh, not really, but it does weigh-in (I could not help myself...the pun is clearly intended!)
Yes, you can be a successful Commander and not be a PT stud.
If you allow yourself to dance along the line of being out of shape for PT or HT/WT you may find yourself on the wrong side of it, don't be that Soldier, your integrity is not worth it.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2017 4:40 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 29 Apr 2017 16:40:20 -0400

Bro,
It has never occurred to me to be the least bit interested in my commander's PFT score, so you know my answer.

Response by SSG Steven Borders made Apr 29 at 2017 4:41 PM

SSG Steven Borders — Sat, 29 Apr 2017 16:41:42 -0400

In all truth and I am being honest. Nope, don't care. Is that the wrong answer probably. To tell you the truth I am not a PT stud myself. I hate running, in fact, I found out I show degeneration at my posterior horn of the medial meniscus. So, running is pretty much out for me now. Now, I do the best that I can and give 100% when I do my PT tests. I just never thought twice about officers. No offense sir, I just worry about my soldiers.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Apr 29 at 2017 4:56 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Sat, 29 Apr 2017 16:56:58 -0400

This is one of those standard vs "the standard" questions. Yep, you cant bust tape or fail. You also can't just do 181 and stand up. I was at varying degrees in my career injured. Long term injuries. It made all that very hard. I took many an APFT circled X. It was better to pass, even if you were close, than have that profile narrative on a command/KD OER.

I did not max APFTs. I worked to have them over 250. When I did that, I was always over the unit average. It also allowed me to compensate between events if I had to nurse something or other. I would sometimes throw sit-ups under the bus and focus on PU and run and still get a half way decent score. I also tried to work on other than APFT physical things to maintain appearance and overall fitness.

As for the question....I did not really care. Everyone is fighting their own battle. I had an officer work for me that spent 2-3 hours each night in self run physical therapy so he could be ready for the next day. I did not think he had a long future soldiering but I admired the grit of looking down the barrel of that everyday and still doing it.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2017 5:06 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 29 Apr 2017 17:06:46 -0400

Honestly never cared sir as long as they passed.

I judge my commanders based on their command presence and planning ability

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2017 5:51 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 29 Apr 2017 17:51:01 -0400

CPT Private RallyPoint Member if the Commander fails their test then it is a strike against them. If they pass no change. If they brag and make a huge deal about getting only 300s and if you do not you are nothing then maybe I would have already judged them.

Response by LTC John Mohor made Apr 29 at 2017 6:33 PM

LTC John Mohor — Sat, 29 Apr 2017 18:33:46 -0400

2LT Michael Beggs as long as they passed and didn't try to pencil it in or wait until a make up I was Ok with it. I never agreed with nor liked the weigh in part. If you can pass all three events what difference does your weight matter. We can now have gay and transgender sin the ranks and God help you if an opinion slips out but overweight fat bodies have to put up with all sorts of grief! Just glad it's all behind me now( the knees are shot)

Response by MGySgt James Forward made Apr 29 at 2017 7:41 PM

MGySgt James Forward — Sat, 29 Apr 2017 19:41:42 -0400

Not.One.Bit. Never had one fail in 29 years of participation. Only problem I had was young Lt/Capt's running in formation at a 19 min 3 mile pace when it was all I could do run 22 flat. What do you want me to do? Sing or Run? I can't do both at the same time. Semper Fi

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made Apr 29 at 2017 8:07 PM

LtCol Robert Quinter — Sat, 29 Apr 2017 20:07:13 -0400

Always passed, but never worried about anyone else's score unless they failed. Have never been a speedster and at 6'2" and 220# I figured the laws of physics were working against me. As a CO, if you failed, you could kiss your command good-by.

As years went by and everything I shouldn't have done caught up with me, usually ran it with a hangover so that my mind could concentrate on how stupid I was to drink the night before rather than the knees, back and other asundry pains.

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Apr 29 at 2017 8:26 PM

SPC Erich Guenther — Sat, 29 Apr 2017 20:26:09 -0400

Well they always pass pretty good on the Infantry side. So I looked more at decision making to determine if we had a buffoon as CO or not. I was pretty lucky and all my CO's passed in that department of making good deciisions and attempting to limit BS. Best CO I ever had was with the 101st Airborne (SF long tab patch). Can't beat that and yes he was a PT Stud and beat most of the 18-22 year olds with his stamina on runs and other events.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2017 9:27 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 29 Apr 2017 21:27:13 -0400

I had a commander that was constantly the top performer and challenged the company by offering to buy lunch for anyone who had a better score then him. He only did so twice. But, he was also a pompous ass who was full of himself and not very respected. I had a Battalion CO that barely passed his run but was well respected as the leader. I don't think people really pay that much attention to the PT test performances but for a few days a year. Other then a general idea because I track my Soldiers, I can't say that off the top of my head that I can recall who scores 290 and who scores 175. My point is, I don't approach my CO thinking, "this guy's scored XXX ...I should think YYY of him"
Having said that, I am aware of officers in my sphere of influence that have been unable to pass the APFT and I do develop a small amount of pity for them because I know how important that standard is to meet.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2017 10:11 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 29 Apr 2017 22:11:07 -0400

CPT Private RallyPoint Member Even though I see my CO APFT score, I care more about the CO actually doing the APFT not pencil whipping it, or seeing the CO doing PT with the rest of us

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2017 3:02 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Apr 2017 03:02:53 -0400

I would be disappointed if they could not pass the APFT. As Officers, we are to be the shining example for others. I expect there to be that one Soldier in a unit that is untouchable with their score, but I personally don't expect it to be the Commander. That being said, I will not think less of them for not maxing out each event. I will be impressed and think more of them if they do max out though. As a Commander it is a challenge to hold a certain level of physical fitness given the amount of work hours you deal with daily.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2017 8:08 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Apr 2017 08:08:10 -0400

As long as they passed, I never cared about their score. On top of the idea that junior Soldiers don't really need to know the Commanders score.

Response by MAJ Raúl Rovira made Apr 30 at 2017 1:39 PM

MAJ Raúl Rovira — Sun, 30 Apr 2017 13:39:02 -0400

Personally, as long as the commander can pass the APFT, I have no issues.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2017 2:00 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Apr 2017 14:00:59 -0400

As the APFT is a poor metric for fitness, I am very neutral on their ability to succeed in by passing the APFT. I am very judgmental if they fail and am disappointed if their goal is the bare minimum. That said, I have only seen commanders and leaders fail or seek the bare minimum in AMEDD organizations.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Apr 30 at 2017 5:53 PM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Sun, 30 Apr 2017 17:53:56 -0400

Well that's the beauty of it though. Look at my last Commandant. General Dunford. The guy is 61 years old and he just ran the Boston Marathon. 26 whole miles at 61 years of age. Compare that to a young 19 or 20 year old struggling to run 3 whole miles.

Leadership starts at the top and goes down. If my leadership is content doing the bare minimum, then how can I hold that against my troops when that's the example they have to learn from.

Yes, I don't expect any of my troops to be PT studs, because I'm not a PT stud myself. But you are lying to yourself if you believe it won't affect the troops.

I remember my OIC was pregnant and even though it's considered light duty, she ran everywhere and she lost all the baby weight like it was nothing. We learn from those above us.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made May 1 at 2017 9:52 AM

SGT Dave Tracy — Mon, 01 May 2017 09:52:32 -0400

I find it respectable if they have a rock solid score; though I wouldn't say a high PT test score from the commander is "inspiring" per se to me or the average soldier. Last year, I was a PT test grader and this older fella whom I didn't recognize shows up in my line. Our Reserve trans unit is only so big, and I had no idea who this cat was, but I made the assumption that based on his age (55) he had some rank.

Well this man crushed it-and I don't mean for his age group. His score only bested by our PT Stud Chief who always hovers around the 300 mark. This guy beat my best ever PT score; certainly was better than what I could do nowadays. Decidedly better the majority of soldiers, and don't forget, he was about double the average age of our unit's soldiers. Sure, that's not normal for a man of that age, but it wasn't until afterward I learned he was our new battalion commander. He just decided to show up at our unit and do the test with us.

Gotta respect that.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made May 1 at 2017 1:12 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 May 2017 13:12:29 -0400

Commanders should do their best on the APFT. Whether the commander maxes the test or not really doesn't matter as long as they pass. If the commander raises the standard for the unit and enforces it then I believe that they need to be able to meet that standard. Other than that though I believe that their leadership is the most important trait.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made May 1 at 2017 9:29 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Mon, 01 May 2017 21:29:24 -0400

None of My Skippers were anywhere Close to Me. Not a thing Never Competed, Compared or Contrasted Myself against them. Now the Female Lt and Ens in the Offices on Either side of me. Yes We Got Competitive. I did have a LCDR from a Different Office in SPAWARS 620 that loved to Bust My Chops and We Would Tease Each other on the Run. "CTO1 if I catch You I'm Going to Kick Your Ass" "Cdr if You Catch Me, I'll Let You Kick My Ass".

Response by COL Charles Williams made May 2 at 2017 12:01 AM

COL Charles Williams — Tue, 02 May 2017 00:01:02 -0400

CPT Private RallyPoint Member Yes, and it should. As a young Soldier and as a new 2LT my leaders were lead by example, follow me, PT beasts. That is was I learned, and emulated and then required. It was also how many of my bosses differentiated between officers, and it was a screening criteria for me as a leader/commander. I expected every officer to max their PT test, qualify expert, and look impeccable in uniform. I was in the Army for close to 33 years and I always aimed for maxing the APFT, and most times I did, until the twilight of my career. Even then, I never scored below a 290. On my last APFT I did better than most Soldiers taking the test.

Response by 1SG Bill Farmerie made May 2 at 2017 4:15 PM

1SG Bill Farmerie — Tue, 02 May 2017 16:15:39 -0400

As a 1SG, I just truly enjoyed beating (more PU, SU and run time not just score) my commanders at the APFT as they were around 15 years younger than me.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2017 4:19 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 May 2017 16:19:26 -0400

Maxing the test isn't a concern of mine for my commanders. I strive to max it but I'm built for it more so than others are. I do expect leaders to put forth the effort to do their best though. Fat and lazy commanders should not be commanders in my opinion. But just because a guy can't run 6 minute miles is not a disqualifying offense in my book.

Response by SSgt Michael Cox made May 2 at 2017 4:23 PM

SSgt Michael Cox — Tue, 02 May 2017 16:23:00 -0400

I would be happy just to see my commander take and then pass the test. My last commander ran the Boston Marathon but the commander before him I don't think took it once while at my last station. At one point he wanted the PT Manager to just give him a passing score because he was to busy to take the time to do the test or go to the gym.

Response by CW2 Ernest Krutzsch made May 2 at 2017 4:34 PM

CW2 Ernest Krutzsch — Tue, 02 May 2017 16:34:54 -0400

I was pretty good at PT, I was in the Infantry for over 11 years and transferred to Military Intelligence as a CI Agent. I could always run and do pushups, but because of an injury in High School, I was never able to max situps (I eventually had to have neck surgery because of the issues doing situps caused) My Neurosurgeon told me that for years he tried to get the Army to abandon Situps, as they were detrimental to the neck. At 80% disabled, I can vouch for that. Physical Fitness is important, maxing is not. Doing the best you could is! I was at Ft Riley, KS, had a PT test and the SSG next to me quit after doing the minimum. I was a CW2, There were no NCO's around so I tore into him, told him if I ever saw him do that again, I would do everything I could do make him the Private he was acting like (I was also a SFC before I became a Warrant). Do the best you can, give it your all, Troops respect that!

Response by PO3 Scot Fahey made May 2 at 2017 4:44 PM

PO3 Scot Fahey — Tue, 02 May 2017 16:44:27 -0400

My commander was a photo on the wall, As a Detachment, we never met the man in 2 years. No idea if DIRNSAPAC/CSS passed a pt test

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2017 4:50 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 May 2017 16:50:08 -0400

I don't care if the commander maxes out the APFT but if he can barely pass it, I will certainly think negatively of him or her. Not just commanders but all leaders have to lead by example. How can I ask my soldiers to strive to max out the APFT, when the commander can barely pass? Fortunately, I have never had a commander that couldn't perform well in the APFT.

Response by CPO james A. Redd Jr made May 2 at 2017 5:03 PM

CPO james A. Redd Jr — Tue, 02 May 2017 17:03:58 -0400

My last unit was a SEAL Det. We were not all SEALS, but we sure liked playing/training SEAL games. So you were (not verbally mentioned) expected to get an outstanding/ excellent on our PT evals!
If you didn't score high after two evals, it was "suggested" you try a new unit.

Response by SPC Bryan Guzman-Piedra made May 2 at 2017 5:04 PM

SPC Bryan Guzman-Piedra — Tue, 02 May 2017 17:04:26 -0400

I was only ever focused on my own PT performance.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2017 5:07 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 May 2017 17:07:48 -0400

In the grand scheme of life, who cares. If the CO gets out there and takes it with his unit, that is what matters. The ability to run fast has never equaled smart decisions, and I would rather have a slow CO than a stupid one.

Response by PFC Griff Schoen made May 2 at 2017 5:11 PM

PFC Griff Schoen — Tue, 02 May 2017 17:11:10 -0400

My BN Cmdr at Schofield was a PT stud for sure and it was only one of the many reasons I respected the heck out of him. He set the pace and it wasn't slow. That said, the only way a commander loses my respect is to actually fail any portion of the test. We all have off days. If he/she wants to score the minimum, I'm ok with that. Just don't fail it.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2017 5:24 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 May 2017 17:24:14 -0400

I am not a PT stud and never have been. As an officer, I never do just the minimum, even on diagnostics. When I was a Battery Commander I made sure to go to muscle failure on the PU and SU events. I never thought less of commanders who didn't max the APFT, but seeing an officer stop at the minimum and get up always was a negative in my book.

Response by MAJ Byron Oyler made May 2 at 2017 6:25 PM

MAJ Byron Oyler — Tue, 02 May 2017 18:25:19 -0400

Anyone know what Audie Murphy's PT score was? Or maybe LTG Hal Moore?

Response by SSgt Tye Keppler made May 2 at 2017 7:14 PM

SSgt Tye Keppler — Tue, 02 May 2017 19:14:27 -0400

My commander ran PT? Who knew? Just kidding, but never cared about anyone's passing PT scores.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2017 9:16 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 May 2017 21:16:14 -0400

As a medic who has been in both infantry units and hospitals, it depends on the position they hold. An infantry officer must have a high degree of tactical physical ability. On the other hand, I could care less about those traits in a trauma surgeon as long as they are great at saving lives.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2017 11:23 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 May 2017 23:23:09 -0400

It's important for a commander to pass obviously. But it won't affect my view of them negatively wether they blow it out of the water or not. Lower pt score they seem more down to earth and know the struggle. Higher score I know they push themselves and will do the same if it came down to a life or death situation

Response by SGT Tony Clifford made May 3 at 2017 2:19 AM

SGT Tony Clifford — Wed, 03 May 2017 02:19:45 -0400

Honestly, most of the enlisted don't care. Most officers, particularly Lts are boastful about their pt scores, but I usually took it as a rule that as fast as your LT might be he's usually not one of the toughest guys in the platoon. Being fast in running shoes without gear isn't the same as being fast with your kit on. Also an officer's physical prowess isn't as important as their ability be an administrator. As long as they can meet unit standards, who cares?

Response by SSG Damon Alexander made May 3 at 2017 7:38 AM

SSG Damon Alexander — Wed, 03 May 2017 07:38:45 -0400

I was never a PT Stud, but always did my best, normally was in the low to mid 270 range. But there is a PT Standard for a REASON, and as far as I was concerned, 181, exceeds the standard, and had several an arguement with platoon and first sergeants about putting that blurb in counseling, and on NCOERs. Had a Squad leader once, he was a PT Stud, but could NOT for the life of him perform his job, and failed several SQTs, when they still had them. Was deployed once in central america, I completed each of my project sites, while he was still trying to even accomplish his first. The Platoon Sergeant came to me to fix it, I told him only under one condition, in that my Squad Leader was no where on the project site, he agreed, and I finished his project in just over 10 days. The thing is, He went on to become a CSM, and didn't know crap. Just a PT stud....

Response by SGT Morrison (Mike) Hogwood made May 3 at 2017 9:59 AM

SGT Morrison (Mike) Hogwood — Wed, 03 May 2017 09:59:14 -0400

never worried about my commanders passing,only myself and soldiers under me,maybe in a few years or if you stay in long enough you will see the toll military life can have on your body,not making excuses,but the focus should be on yourself first.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2017 3:32 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 May 2017 15:32:31 -0400

I honestly don't care if my commander is a PT stud or hits the minimums. I don't care if anyone is a PT stud or just passes.

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made Sep 11 at 2017 8:08 PM

Sgt Wayne Wood — Mon, 11 Sep 2017 20:08:33 -0400

My last CO maxed out his PFT while wearing a gas mask... made everyone hang their head... no excuses!

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Mar 9 at 2018 1:24 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 13:24:21 -0500

I had several great O's who as LTC's, had no problem maxing the 18 yr group PT test. After he did his station, he would encourage everybody else. We loved him, if I had any O to fail or not exceed the minimums I would have very little respect for them.

Response by CDR Mike Yuhas made May 15 at 2018 9:22 PM

CDR Mike Yuhas — Tue, 15 May 2018 21:22:14 -0400

They only need to pass. My opinion of my CO would be based more on how he performs as a leader and decision maker.

Response by SP6 Armando V. Gonzales made May 16 at 2018 1:43 AM

SP6 Armando V. Gonzales — Wed, 16 May 2018 01:43:53 -0400

Every CO and officers in the two units I served in were beasts when it came to PT and tests. I would think less of them if they failed. Then again, I had no business with dealings with officers. Whatever my Plt Sgt said it was done.

Response by SFC Dennis A. made May 16 at 2018 8:26 AM

SFC Dennis A. — Wed, 16 May 2018 08:26:26 -0400

As long as he/she is actually taking the AFPT and passes it I don't care what they score. Everyone has good days and bad days. I was always more concerned with pass or fail, the big thing that the score told me was the amount of effort the soldier put into it.

Response by CPT Robert Bretherick made May 16 at 2018 8:27 PM

CPT Robert Bretherick — Wed, 16 May 2018 20:27:46 -0400

During OCS, we had to double time every where we went. Our LTs were right there.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2018 4:10 AM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 May 2018 04:10:05 -0400

Just get the job done honestly

Response by SSG Michael Raysses made May 17 at 2018 7:14 AM

SSG Michael Raysses — Thu, 17 May 2018 07:14:33 -0400

Doesn't really matter does it?.. but?... the STANDARD .... is EXACTLY THAT!... the standard requirement tells ALL OF US.... we pass this test, or we do it all over again... never was a big PT fan... but we all ran and did our daily PT cuz it was REQUIRED, fellas... plus?... tell tale SIGN that you WERENT doing it?... your uniforms DIDNT FIT!!!!... HOOAH?.... I was a 92-G30... and being a FOOD SERVICE SERGEANT, I made it my commitment to look good in my uniforms!... so long story short... we PT'd with our CO's and our respective units.... and that was that!... didn't think any more or LESS of someone if they had a hard time with it!.....and my career has been over for almost 12 years now...so?... I still stay in decent shape.... little molded over, but I'm still good to go, HOOAH!!!... SSG Mike Raysses, USAR-Ret...

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made May 17 at 2018 9:18 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Thu, 17 May 2018 09:18:43 -0400

I had several commanders that could and did max the 18yr old AFPT requirements- it was maind blowing because after he tested each event- he would walk around and pump up everybody else testing. They always led from the front- and we would follow them to Hell to get ice-water, if that was the mission. Of course it was 82nd/Rangers.

Response by CW4 Robert C. made May 17 at 2018 1:08 PM

CW4 Robert C. — Thu, 17 May 2018 13:08:26 -0400

As long as they pass I could care less what they score. My outlook on this is that when I was in I was not a PT guru, but I did what I had to do. I didn't think that CDR who scored a 300 was any better than a CDR who scored a 200. As long as they passed. I also believe that those CDR's that belittle their soldiers for not being like them a PT Stud, are wrong. Not everyone can be a PT Stud. So get over yourself and help out your soldiers, not ridicule them.

Response by 1SG John Highfill made May 17 at 2018 2:35 PM

1SG John Highfill — Thu, 17 May 2018 14:35:45 -0400

Very few Commaders I knew were PT studs am wasn’t one either

Response by CPL William Taylor made May 18 at 2018 6:36 AM

CPL William Taylor — Fri, 18 May 2018 06:36:32 -0400

What ever there standard they hold for me they should meet or exceed

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2018 4:52 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 May 2018 16:52:54 -0400

Personally, having a commander who nearly failed and a commander who just about maxes out every time. I don’t look at the almost failure any less just for his/her (these were both male) PT test but I do look at the stud a little higher than usual. My opinion of my commanders is how much they show they care for their soldiers. Just so happens the almost PT failure was a horrible commander and the stud is one of my favorite commanders

Response by 1LT Eric Church made May 18 at 2018 10:03 PM

1LT Eric Church — Fri, 18 May 2018 22:03:28 -0400

Infantry platoon leaders should max their pt scores and if they cannot they should train to do so. Period.

Response by SGT Michael Boner made May 19 at 2018 3:50 PM

SGT Michael Boner — Sat, 19 May 2018 15:50:07 -0400

Not only should they pass it, but they should do so with relative ease. Lead from the front

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2018 11:13 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 19 May 2018 23:13:34 -0400

Wtf cares what the maam score

Response by Maj John Bell made May 19 at 2018 11:28 PM

Maj John Bell — Sat, 19 May 2018 23:28:41 -0400

I could easily do 25-30 dead hang pull-ups during my entire Career, max points was 20 and kipping was allowed.

I could do between 95-100 sit-ups in 2 minutes during my entire career. max points was 80.

I couldn't get the faster than 19:47 on the 3 mile run if you set me on fire, let me run down hill with tigers gnawing on my ass. My worst time ever was 21:02. max points was 18:00.

But my specialty was force marching. I once carried my Alice Pack at 117lbs, a 60mm base plate from a mortar section hump drop, plus his pack at 89lbs for the last 5 miles of the 25 mile evaluated combat readiness hump.

I never served in an FMF unit where every NCO, SNCO, and Officer couldn't finish the PFT with a 1st Class score 270+ out of 300.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2018 1:52 PM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 May 2018 13:52:03 -0400

I care a bit but as long as they can do their job in fine

Response by 1st Lt Henry Battersby made May 22 at 2018 11:50 AM

1st Lt Henry Battersby — Tue, 22 May 2018 11:50:01 -0400

I worked with nuclear weapons, why get sweaty when you can't outrun the blast?

Response by SPC Jesse Peeples made May 22 at 2018 5:56 PM

SPC Jesse Peeples — Tue, 22 May 2018 17:56:03 -0400

I think I was at the 489th and captain Craigwall blue my mind on a ruck march / run now that's pt

Response by SFC Michael Howell made May 22 at 2018 8:26 PM

SFC Michael Howell — Tue, 22 May 2018 20:26:14 -0400

Can he carry his combat load into the battle and back? That is the only physical fitness test that really matters

Response by SPC Tevin Garceau made May 22 at 2018 9:05 PM

SPC Tevin Garceau — Tue, 22 May 2018 21:05:38 -0400

It depends on the circumstances of the commander and there respected mission set. What I do have to say is that every soldier should be able to pass the standard APFT and basic BRM after all in the end we were all soldiers! Airborne ATW!!

Response by SPC Michael B. Gudger made May 23 at 2018 6:57 AM

SPC Michael B. Gudger — Wed, 23 May 2018 06:57:49 -0400

In cav if u talk it u better walk it sir

Response by SSG Pete Berkman made May 23 at 2018 10:44 AM

SSG Pete Berkman — Wed, 23 May 2018 10:44:44 -0400

As a Leader in the military you should lead by example, so Yes the Commanders PT score is yet another example of excellence which instills positive performance with in the ranks and should push all to do their very best.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2018 11:30 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 23 May 2018 11:30:37 -0400

Commanders passing their APFT is something many soldiers in the unit think is important. Soldiers will not have confidence nor respect for their commander if they can not meet the army’s most basic requirements. Vice versa commanders and key leaders who exceed standards on their APFT in my experience have gained a ton of respect for the unit and the soldiers under them. Soldiers like to see leaders performing to the same if not better standards that they are pressured to meet.

Response by SPC Whittney Bierilo made May 23 at 2018 11:47 AM

SPC Whittney Bierilo — Wed, 23 May 2018 11:47:17 -0400

As long as they pass, it’s fine. When it comes to commanders, I’m more concerned with how they run their unit.

Response by SFC James Baxley made May 23 at 2018 11:59 AM

SFC James Baxley — Wed, 23 May 2018 11:59:49 -0400

I think that every Commander should set the standard and that is at least trying to max the PT Test. In the world of the Infantry you should always be fit and that needs to be shown throughout your unit. Every Commander that I have had was a stud and maxed it.

Response by Sgt Kevin Yuro made May 23 at 2018 1:25 PM

Sgt Kevin Yuro — Wed, 23 May 2018 13:25:20 -0400

I would probably have chuckled if they failed and would probably have lost a little respect for them if only because they are tasked with keeping and enforcing the standards. Failure would be to fall short of the standards they are tasked with keeping and enforcing. A commanding officer is expected to lead by example.

The paradox however is that if they blew it out of the water I might gain a little more respect for them on a *physical* level, but it wouldn't mean a thing in terms of respect for them as a leader. I judge my commander based on their command presence, planning ability, if they are supportive of their troops, and if there is a willingness to share hardship. A Gung-ho Butter Bar with a degree in Basket Weaving may blow the PT out of the water but most are still generally walking Fuster Clucks with just about everything else. At least until that Gold gives way to Silver. The fact that 2Lt. Gung-Ho Butter Bar can ace PT doesn't make him competent.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2018 1:26 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 23 May 2018 13:26:40 -0400

I have not met a lot of my commanders but PT isn't everything so I do not think less of anyone who can or can't max their PT test. I'm only 18 and I am definitely not a PT stud my run and sit ups could be better.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2018 1:32 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 23 May 2018 13:32:33 -0400

It should matter...All Leaders by definition "lead from the front" otherwise you'd just be a boss. I wouldn't allow a SGT on the ABCP program to counsel soldiers about what they need to do. It's an Army standard, can't enforce it if you can't meet it. Just my two cents.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2018 1:47 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 23 May 2018 13:47:27 -0400

I've seen soldiers who could pass apft but couldn't hump the bush I never cared how fast you could run two miles as long as you could jump all day and be ready to fight when you get there

Response by SPC Russ Cosby made May 23 at 2018 1:47 PM

SPC Russ Cosby — Wed, 23 May 2018 13:47:42 -0400

No Sir, take care of the troops, lead by example and pass... Done deal.

Response by SPC John Murphy made May 23 at 2018 1:48 PM

SPC John Murphy — Wed, 23 May 2018 13:48:48 -0400

I only read a couple of the comments, failing a pt test is one thing but what always has lowered my opinion is the pencil whipping, if u can't be honest about ur test, what kind of leader are u really?

Response by CPL E Cox made May 23 at 2018 3:34 PM

CPL E Cox — Wed, 23 May 2018 15:34:33 -0400

I think company officers should be in as good of shape or better than their subordinates after that not a big deal

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2018 4:37 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 23 May 2018 16:37:10 -0400

It really depends on the organization and the standards you hold sir. I set the bar high for my soldiers and encourage them to beat me. I don't believe you need to be a 300 stud. But if my commander was barely passing I wouldn't be too enthused to put in maximum effort

Response by SP5 Gerald Mills made May 23 at 2018 5:30 PM

SP5 Gerald Mills — Wed, 23 May 2018 17:30:07 -0400

if I had a commander that couldn't pass a pt test I would most definitely look down on them. how can you expect your soldiers to kick ass on their pt test if you cant lead the way on yours?

Response by SP5 Gerald Mills made May 23 at 2018 5:34 PM

SP5 Gerald Mills — Wed, 23 May 2018 17:34:49 -0400

if your trying your hardest and puking when you cross the finish line than ok I can work with that, they just need a few extra pt sessions..

Response by SGT Lawrence Menard made May 23 at 2018 6:06 PM

SGT Lawrence Menard — Wed, 23 May 2018 18:06:33 -0400

Not at all

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2018 10:07 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 23 May 2018 22:07:08 -0400

i had that happen to me. i pass the pt test and he did not,but i was still place he place me on the over weght class.

Response by PO1 Ronald Reece made May 23 at 2018 11:46 PM

PO1 Ronald Reece — Wed, 23 May 2018 23:46:15 -0400

They should pass the pt test,I know most of the E7–E9’s. Couldn’t come close to passing and they were extremely hard on the lower ranks if the couldn’t so how can you respect a leader with that attitude

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2018 7:06 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 24 May 2018 07:06:09 -0400

I never understood the attitude towards a PT score. The Army has a standard. As long as you meet/exceed the standard, you should be good right? I guess not. I’ve never had issues passing an APFT, but I stopped maximizing the score after about 4-5 years in. To maintain a PT badge, unit at the time made us take an APFT like every other month. That sucked, so I’d fall just below that radar. What happened? I was given a completely different label...a failure. I never fell out of runs or gave up during PT sessions. I’ve personally only seen one CDR in my Army career take an APFT. I personally don’t care. It’s not usually the CDR talking trash about PT scores though. It’s almost always 1SG/CSM. I wanna see what those scorecards at the Academy look like.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2018 12:36 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 25 May 2018 00:36:56 -0400

I think it’s important. As a private immediately noticed my Commander was a stud at PT day one at the unit when he lead an AGR run. As a private I did not have a clue what he did in all the meeting and all the planning he did but one thing I saw and always noticed that he excelled at PT and it made me respect the hell out of him

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2018 1:48 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 25 May 2018 01:48:10 -0400

70 in each event is the minimum acceptable anything below that needs improvement

Response by SGM Jeffrey Hall made May 25 at 2018 2:24 AM

SGM Jeffrey Hall — Fri, 25 May 2018 02:24:55 -0400

I believe that all leaders should lead by example. Until I retired, I could pass a PT test on the 17-21 year old age scale. How will a leader motivate subordinates if he or she is not out front? Yes an officer should excel at PT as well as any other measurable item that the Soldiers are held to. This mean the commander needs to shoot well. The commander needs to know his or her warrior tasks and battle drills. Being a commander means setting the tone for the organization, and most commanders want that tone to be one of excellence.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2018 5:46 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 25 May 2018 17:46:28 -0400

as long as their able to properly execute a correct PU and SU... I’m good with that! Hate when I see senior leaders do it in correctly and get away with it. Just saying ;)

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2018 4:47 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 26 May 2018 16:47:55 -0400

Honestly, of they passed that was all that mattered, as long as they didn't demand their soldiers maintain more than they could. What mattered is where they were when it mattered, combat/field/late days/squad competitions/ect..

Response by SPC Curtis Cornell made May 26 at 2018 6:08 PM

SPC Curtis Cornell — Sat, 26 May 2018 18:08:07 -0400

Sometimes it's Better to have a Good Mind over A GREAT Body.

Response by CPL Jeremiah Clifford made May 26 at 2018 11:26 PM

CPL Jeremiah Clifford — Sat, 26 May 2018 23:26:20 -0400

I did have a few fail and it does make you wonder just how much it all matters to them.

Response by SGT Scott Castle made May 27 at 2018 4:09 PM

SGT Scott Castle — Sun, 27 May 2018 16:09:12 -0400

The Substance of a commanders character is worth far more than his PT schedule. I honestly believe that if a soldier thinks less of his CO because he failed a PT test, it is really due to several other failures to gain that respect in the first place. That being said Gentleman, we would generally prefer to respect you while you are alive; so, just make sure that you aren't so out of shape that it becomes overly hazardous to your life, please.

Response by Lt Col Charlie Brown made May 27 at 2018 4:51 PM

Lt Col Charlie Brown — Sun, 27 May 2018 16:51:54 -0400

I always did reasonably well on the PT test. I am not an athlete. I do think that my conversations with those who did not do well were more effective since I wasn't an athlete. I never heard anything from those who blew it out of the water, they never seemed to mind either way...we rooted for everyone to do well. All that said, I was AF not Army or Marines.

Response by SFC George “Bones” Small made May 27 at 2018 6:01 PM

SFC George “Bones” Small — Sun, 27 May 2018 18:01:09 -0400

Being in Medevac DUSTOFF and MAST units of various sizes in my enlisted medical career, my unit makeup was consisted of about 1/3 Officers, with the Commander just being one of the many. Nobody cared how well the Pilots did on the APFTs, as long as they passed them the same as we all had to. The Commander was more liked for leading and supporting our unit mission and personnel wisely. Sure we ran 2 to 4 miles every other day, often more on Fridays, with him in the lead whenever he could be there. But it was the same for the rest of us doing unit 24/7/365 Medevac Standby. It wasn't that unusual for any of us to possibly miss being within a PT Formation for a week or more because of other duty requirements. Our main focus was the mission of saving lives, not some PT Test.

Response by CPT Jeff Reichardt made May 27 at 2018 7:44 PM

CPT Jeff Reichardt — Sun, 27 May 2018 19:44:17 -0400

I maxed my first three or four APFT’s as an enlisted man. Best PU 102. Best SU 94. Best 2 mile run 10:54. ( I came in 7th btw. Post commander’s daughter beat us all)

Then I got into power lifting. Gained a bunch of weight. And the injuries began.

I toughed it out for 25 years, 8 ortho surgeries, and 4 knee dislocations before I got a medical discharge.

Why do I detail all of this for you? Because, if you really want to stay in, you can. Mine was a rough ride. But not anywhere near as rough as friends I know who have lost limbs and still serve.

Final point. ALWAYS STRIVE TO BE BETTER.

Response by CPT Jeff Reichardt made May 27 at 2018 7:56 PM

CPT Jeff Reichardt — Sun, 27 May 2018 19:56:58 -0400

I had an ER doc in the reserves who was a PT stud. He had a goal. At the age of 43 he joined a West Virginia ANG unit that was SF. ALL the time he spent in PT was to prepare himself for the rigors of SF training. He maxed the test for 18 year olds. He excelled in the SF and retired from there after multiple deployments.

I respected all of that. But a really respected his ER/Surgical skill and his people skills. He was inspiring. Failing in any way, in front of him, made you feel bad. Like you had personally failed him. He was the best commander I ever had.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 28 at 2018 12:21 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 May 2018 00:21:39 -0400

As long as they passed, no problem.

Response by PFC Jared Noe made May 29 at 2018 1:09 AM

PFC Jared Noe — Tue, 29 May 2018 01:09:09 -0400

Honestly sir yes and no. First off if said commander is “high speed” and is grinding on his/her troops to be better at pt when he/she barley making the minimum he/she should practice what they preaches so he himself or herself can set the standard for his/her troops as a leader. Now is said commander is “high speed” is above the standard he/she should conduct pt with the troop under his/hers command that’s how you build a strong relationship with your troop lead from the front

Response by CPT Mike Sims made May 29 at 2018 1:57 PM

CPT Mike Sims — Tue, 29 May 2018 13:57:33 -0400

The enemy doesn't care what your PT score is, but it does matter if you're in shape and can be faster, stronger, more lethal and better decisive in tactics and strategic plannig than the enemy.

Response by PO3 Dawn Kornder made May 29 at 2018 10:24 PM

PO3 Dawn Kornder — Tue, 29 May 2018 22:24:51 -0400

N/A

Response by PVT Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2018 6:40 PM

PVT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 May 2018 18:40:32 -0400

I think it should be a standard for your commander to pass the PT test. Why would he expect you to be physically fit and ready to deploy if he can't do it himself. He is there to lead from the front not the rear...

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2018 7:10 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 07:10:24 -0400

I don’t think it matter is they max. Seeing as majority of the military doesn’t max it. If the commander were to fail though I feel it would have a great impact. Atleast throughout his company or whatever he is in command of. The main question would be, “How can you preach PT standards to us when you yourself can not pass?”

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2018 6:24 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 18:24:47 -0400

I personally do care, i dont need a Commander that scores 300s but i also dont want one that bearly passes. I would say 240+ With 70 minimum in the run because that leaves room for a bad day. And 80 PU SU because to be honest, graders hand out candy alot. basically what I ask of my soldiers

Response by SFC Joel Fenske made Jun 1 at 2018 8:37 PM

SFC Joel Fenske — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 20:37:50 -0400

I never cared much about what officers did. There’s really no place for them though. The military would be better off putting educated enlisted folks in officer positions.

Response by SGT Jason Dean made Jun 2 at 2018 2:49 PM

SGT Jason Dean — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 14:49:45 -0400

Leadership should strive to set the standard in which the hold their soldiers to

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2018 10:38 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Jun 2018 10:38:20 -0400

I don’t think a stupid pt test is even practical. So I think a pt test doesn’t define you as a soldier/marine/sailor/airman etc. You could be the slowest runner in a platoon and still jump in front of a bullet for your buddies.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2018 12:56 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Jun 2018 12:56:58 -0400

As long as they can legitimately pass it doesn't matter to me, though like anyone else, if they max it I will be impressed.

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2018 6:07 PM

LCpl Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Jun 2018 18:07:01 -0400

Tbh I have never seen an out of shape officer. I've even seen a colonel hop on a bar and rip out 23 pull ups. But I would not mind if I had a 3rd class pft commander. But the top tier marines would feel less motivated and disgruntled if a CO were to get a third class pft.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2018 10:29 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Jun 2018 22:29:19 -0400

I respect a commander that would do his pt test with his company and actually do good on it because he's is their commander so set the bar. I always hated it when a commander would do the bare minimum but look at a soldier that got a 230 and say"you couldn't get to 280?" while I appreciate the mental reinforcement, it was always a bother.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2018 10:34 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Jun 2018 22:34:32 -0400

Also I would like to say I didn't know this was and officers post so I'd like to apologize for not addressing you properly sir.

Response by SGT Frank Roberson made Jun 7 at 2018 11:09 PM

SGT Frank Roberson — Thu, 07 Jun 2018 23:09:35 -0400

I did my best and don't care how anyone else did, officer or enlisted. Command is Leadership, but keeping US all at Our Best and Ready was all that mattered.

Response by SGT Larry Kelly made Jun 9 at 2018 10:16 AM

SGT Larry Kelly — Sat, 09 Jun 2018 10:16:24 -0400

I have seen people who can Max the PT test crying and under their bed when the morter rounds and tracers are all around.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2018 4:26 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Jun 2018 16:26:06 -0400

Literally 0.

I have never heard of anyone saying "That Commander knows his shit but doesn't score well on PT so I don't like him." I have heard it the other way though "That Commander is a monster at PT but doesn't know his head from his ass about the squadron."

Response by PO1 Todd McMillin made Jun 10 at 2018 8:59 PM

PO1 Todd McMillin — Sun, 10 Jun 2018 20:59:23 -0400

A good officer usually passed in the middle somewhere if they had been able to balance work, private life, and everything else. The only time I saw a HARDCORE PT junkie was a Divorced Officer; and I never trusted them at all.

Response by SGM Steven Corey made Jun 11 at 2018 5:21 AM

SGM Steven Corey — Mon, 11 Jun 2018 05:21:53 -0400

If He passed the PT Test was Good Enough For Me . I Never Had a Commander That I Had to Question His Abilities. During My Time in The Sun

Response by MSG Mariano l Domenech made Jun 11 at 2018 9:38 AM

MSG Mariano l Domenech — Mon, 11 Jun 2018 09:38:14 -0400

It all goes in following the principles of leadership, number one being “Set the example”

Response by LTC Joseph Bost made Jun 11 at 2018 1:22 PM

LTC Joseph Bost — Mon, 11 Jun 2018 13:22:13 -0400

Yes, Commanders should set the standard, max the test......simple as that. Lead by example, we’re not talking about Olympic Qualifying standards here, no world qualifying standards, just warfighter physical fitness. Created for Soldiers by Soldiers. As a former Enlisted Soldier, a Chief Warrant Officer and finally a direct commission to Commissioned Officer, below zone selection to field grade and later selected for Battalion coomand with the 18th Airborne Corps, and 31 years active duty, “A” right, I believe Commanders should max the PT test. It’s certainly not the only measure of effectiveness, but it definitely sets the tone, it sets expectations. An ARI study I read during my days as a CW3 concluded there are many testable measures to predict military success, IQ, education, etc., etc., however, none had a 1-1 correlation with military success. However, physical fitness measurables ( PT test scores) had the highest correlation for military success. It demonstrates pride, commitment, hard work. “Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn’t have to do it”..........that is the hand written sign as the XO I had to pull down on more than one occasion because our then commander had such miserable PT test scores. Particularly in the run, so poorly he never took the PT test with the unit. Sorry, if you’re going to be a leader of soldiers in the best Army in the world.......back that chair away from the dinner table, get off the couch and get to the gym.....again we’re NOT talking Olympic PT standards........” I never heard of a man drown in his own sweat”!

Response by SGT Brent Moore made Jun 12 at 2018 1:59 AM

SGT Brent Moore — Tue, 12 Jun 2018 01:59:59 -0400

I honestly never knew my CO’s score, but passing is a must. How can you expect your joes to pass if you yourself cant pass. The CO must pass, but in my opinion if i were in those shoes. I would strive to have the highest score possible even if it killed me.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2018 9:39 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 Jun 2018 09:39:17 -0400

Command teams must set the standard. If you want a 250 standard, get a 250. My company pt average is 272. My commander and 1sg exceed that score.

Response by CPL Channing Peyton made Jun 12 at 2018 9:32 PM

CPL Channing Peyton — Tue, 12 Jun 2018 21:32:26 -0400

So long as they can pass a PT test that part is of low importance compared to leadership abilities. You don't quit your job you quite your boss and after what I saw in two different units I quit my boss due to stupidity and arrogance which made a bad combination in Iraq with one and the "we don't care because your not going with us" immediately when I got home with the other. And I very much loved that job.

Response by SSG Kenneth Ponder made Jun 14 at 2018 9:10 PM

SSG Kenneth Ponder — Thu, 14 Jun 2018 21:10:00 -0400

It doesn't, PT test waste of damn time for everyone concerned. Daily PT is what is needed.

Response by SSG Kenneth Ponder made Jun 14 at 2018 9:14 PM

SSG Kenneth Ponder — Thu, 14 Jun 2018 21:14:04 -0400

Rally point sucks,y'll ain't shit!

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2018 10:29 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Jun 2018 22:29:50 -0400

You lead from the front. It's probably difficult to do that if your falling out of a light run. I don't respect leaders as much if they can't get a first class PFT and CFT.

Response by SGT Phelan Hoover made Jun 15 at 2018 8:58 PM

SGT Phelan Hoover — Fri, 15 Jun 2018 20:58:51 -0400

It does matter to me, if the Commander fails becuase he or she hasnt been keeping up with military standards. It, could be because of lack of discipline. The Commander is the Commander, we can ignore it. Overall if they fail, you have it in the back of your head that in someway, the unit has performance issues. Regardless, if the Army wants you to turn a cheek or not.

Response by CSM Bryan Tyler made Jun 16 at 2018 8:32 AM

CSM Bryan Tyler — Sat, 16 Jun 2018 08:32:40 -0400

LT,
I concur, what is important is that the leadership take the APFT with their Soldiers along with them - it builds esprit de corps, help set a good example -ie leadership and lets Soldiers see that their leaders are doing the same thing that they ask of their Solders. So if the commander make a 300 or 270 the results of positive leadership are evident.

Response by SGT Michael Davis made Jun 16 at 2018 10:46 AM

SGT Michael Davis — Sat, 16 Jun 2018 10:46:42 -0400

The PT Test measures more than your physical ability. It measures mental toughness as well. When your in good physical shape, your mind has the ability to work under extreme conditions. My commanders never failed one that I know of. I was expected to have my Soldiers prepared on orders from my Commander. I would find it unacceptable if one of my Commanders failed theirs. They don’t need to Max it; but rather pass it with room to spare. They are expected to lead from the from the front. You can’t lead from the front if your lagging behind.

Response by Cpl Donald Roudebush made Jun 16 at 2018 10:52 AM

Cpl Donald Roudebush — Sat, 16 Jun 2018 10:52:56 -0400

I was always impressed with my commanders ability to pass the PFT. As Marines... regardless of age rank or TIS ... if you cannot pass it... you get to go home.

Response by SSG T.J. Borstelman made Jun 16 at 2018 7:41 PM

SSG T.J. Borstelman — Sat, 16 Jun 2018 19:41:35 -0400

I only cared about my joes. I didnt care about the officers.

Response by SGM Donald Scott made Jun 16 at 2018 9:58 PM

SGM Donald Scott — Sat, 16 Jun 2018 21:58:50 -0400

Passing the APFT with a score of 240+ was always sufficient for me.

Response by SGM Donald Scott made Jun 16 at 2018 10:01 PM

SGM Donald Scott — Sat, 16 Jun 2018 22:01:40 -0400

Passing the APFT with a score of 240+ should be considered sufficient anyone.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2018 3:51 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 17 Jun 2018 15:51:58 -0400

If a commander is failing a pt test he/she doesn’t need to be a commander. Simple as that, how’re the going to lead a company, battalion, brigade, or division and not even be able to meet one of the top standards in the army? As an infantry soldier almost every commander I’ve had was an absolute PT stud and that’s how I feel it should be. Who cares about my opinion though.. I’m just a specialist

Response by LCpl Mike Niemeyer made Jun 18 at 2018 11:08 AM

LCpl Mike Niemeyer — Mon, 18 Jun 2018 11:08:38 -0400

I could care. I was more into could my SNCO AND NCO pass the PFT. The other one that we watched was my warrant officer.

Response by PVT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2018 7:05 PM

PVT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 Jun 2018 19:05:12 -0400

My crutch was pushups sounds silly but it is the truth. The oath remains the same
Some things cant be helped for me it was dissapointing.

Response by SPC Arthur Lloyd made Jun 19 at 2018 4:20 PM

SPC Arthur Lloyd — Tue, 19 Jun 2018 16:20:49 -0400

Commanders should lead by example

Response by SGT Terry Youtsey made Jun 19 at 2018 11:25 PM

SGT Terry Youtsey — Tue, 19 Jun 2018 23:25:24 -0400

if thay do not do the best it dose not make me want to

Response by SFC Kelly Vines made Jun 20 at 2018 8:23 PM

SFC Kelly Vines — Wed, 20 Jun 2018 20:23:44 -0400

Lt dragged ass

Response by SGT Stan Setliff made Jun 21 at 2018 6:56 AM

SGT Stan Setliff — Thu, 21 Jun 2018 06:56:46 -0400

To me, that come under the "lead by exmple" rule. Not every one is evn capable of 100%. But pushing your own max effort shows.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2018 11:19 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 Jun 2018 23:19:24 -0400

If I’m given a standard I have to hit and my leadership can’t hit that standard that is hypocrisy and I will think less of them. If they can’t even pass a pt test, all respect is lost

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2018 8:22 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Jun 2018 08:22:05 -0400

Several of my CO's could beat me, keep up the good work, Sir.

Response by SPC Stacey Miller made Jun 22 at 2018 8:26 AM

SPC Stacey Miller — Fri, 22 Jun 2018 08:26:16 -0400

All should be held to the same standard regardless of rank!

Response by SGT Argenis Guzman made Jun 22 at 2018 8:53 AM

SGT Argenis Guzman — Fri, 22 Jun 2018 08:53:11 -0400

He/She should get an above average score to set the example.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jun 22 at 2018 2:20 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Fri, 22 Jun 2018 14:20:43 -0400

FDR had Polio and spent a good chunk of his life in a Wheel Chair. He would not have been a good fighter would he? Do we think anyless of him as a man? He led us through the worst economic situation the world has ever seen, and the largest world war. I could care less what my commander scores. Are they a leader, do they quit, can they get the job done? General Stormin Norman Schwarzkopf had a barrel Chest, does any think he scored a hundred points on this run? Male female, or one of the other so called 64 classifications of human beings (don't get me started on that one) I give a damn about that. If you can lead us like Patton or Alexander the Great I don't care what you PT score is.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2018 3:54 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 23 Jun 2018 03:54:38 -0400

As an NCO, I really don’t care as long as the commander holds himself to the standard that the 1SG and himself hold everyone else to. If there’s a “unit standard”, I expect command to uphold their own standard. Expecting your soldiers to do better than you is not how you lead from the front.

Response by SGT Stan Setliff made Jun 23 at 2018 7:56 AM

SGT Stan Setliff — Sat, 23 Jun 2018 07:56:52 -0400

My thought, it is a "lead by example" thing.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2018 8:35 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 23 Jun 2018 08:35:36 -0400

I would say this is a tricky question. A fail would be a shock for sure. However, it depends on the job. If you have a highly physical job, then one counts a little more on your physical ability. Some things that are missed in Soldier functional fitness include things like ruck marching or sprinting. Can you evade fire, carry your load and keep up, can you drag another Soldier from fire. There is really a whole lot to it. I have seen super tiny, skinny folks max out PT. Do I think they could drag me in full gear from a burning helicopter-I have my doubts. As far as how I view a commander, it comes down to how they take hold of the company, keep the crazies in check and battalion within reason, how they support the situation is key. I am not saying be hard or be soft- what I truly enjoy is someone that gets the facts before handling something and addressing whatever it may be like a reasonable person. This may be telling the troops to simmer down, fighting battalion on something crazy, doling out a fair punishment in a respectful way or snatching up a subordinate thatnis getting out of control. I look for well rounded and really don’t care what kind of meathead they are or aren’t.

Response by SSG Allen Courser made Jun 23 at 2018 11:57 AM

SSG Allen Courser — Sat, 23 Jun 2018 11:57:21 -0400

Need to do well, you lead by inspiration, being in healthy shape inspires others to well.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2018 12:47 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 23 Jun 2018 12:47:18 -0400

No If a commander is a stud on PT it dosent make the commander their leadership dose of they can’t max it it dosent mean anything

Response by PVT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2018 1:28 PM

PVT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 23 Jun 2018 13:28:54 -0400

I don't really care. Most of them are more than twice my age and it's not really the officers job to be great at pt it's ours. Even then I'm not so great either.

Response by CPT Dave Bell made Jun 23 at 2018 8:42 PM

CPT Dave Bell — Sat, 23 Jun 2018 20:42:53 -0400

All Commanders should set the example.

Response by SGT Daniel Rodriguez made Jun 23 at 2018 10:07 PM

SGT Daniel Rodriguez — Sat, 23 Jun 2018 22:07:20 -0400

E6 and above ,help each pass their PT Test

Response by SGT Daniel Rodriguez made Jun 23 at 2018 10:10 PM

SGT Daniel Rodriguez — Sat, 23 Jun 2018 22:10:55 -0400

I am not Officer, I care more about the Enlist

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2018 10:16 AM

A1C Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Jun 2018 10:16:17 -0400

As long as they passed. It's all one team.

Response by SPC Jesse Delacerda made Jun 24 at 2018 5:25 PM

SPC Jesse Delacerda — Sun, 24 Jun 2018 17:25:02 -0400

If my commander can run then there was never a reason I shouldn't be able to too it does boost moral and if he couldn't then they seemed lazy and scary cause this lazy person is in charge

Response by SGT Jason Pettet made Jun 25 at 2018 12:36 AM

SGT Jason Pettet — Mon, 25 Jun 2018 00:36:19 -0400

Overall, I think the soldiers will make their jokes and tall their trash but at the end of the day, if you are a good leader, your apft score is irrelevant. If your soldiers think you're a sbag then they will use your apft score as ammo for their already burning fire. Just be a good leader and none of that matters.

Response by SMSgt Bruce McDowell made Jun 25 at 2018 12:00 PM

SMSgt Bruce McDowell — Mon, 25 Jun 2018 12:00:09 -0400

Doesn’t matter either way

Response by MSgt Randy T made Jun 25 at 2018 1:08 PM

MSgt Randy T — Mon, 25 Jun 2018 13:08:22 -0400

Most commanders held their people to a higher standard than they held themselves.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2018 10:15 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 Jun 2018 10:15:45 -0400

I've always been told and view it myself as a measure of how much a soldier cares and is involved. It doesn't account for everything, but it's a good quick benchmark assessment. For an officer, we are taught to lead by example, so I feel we should push ourselves if we expect it from our Soldiers. High APFT has been a helpful tool for me, but situations and styles are always different.

Response by 2ndLt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2018 8:28 AM

2ndLt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jun 2018 08:28:42 -0400

My personal opinion is that the commander needs to set the example for every single aspect of military life. Officers and NCOs don’t need to max pfts, but under no circumstances should they be getting failing or marginal scores.

Response by SSG Jeffrey Harper made Jun 27 at 2018 9:28 AM

SSG Jeffrey Harper — Wed, 27 Jun 2018 09:28:04 -0400

It’s all about enforcing standards. If a commander couldn’t pass and APFT then how can they put troop out of the Army for not passing one or busting tape if they bust tape. It’s all about being fair and if you can’t meet the standard you are e enforcing then how can you call your self a commader.

Response by CSM Victor Gomez made Jun 27 at 2018 3:55 PM

CSM Victor Gomez — Wed, 27 Jun 2018 15:55:13 -0400

I would rather have a Commander fail with integrity than some I have seen max it in a questionable manner. I want to see the standard met. If you can do more, so be it. If you get selected to attend a course that is physically demanding, you are not going to get through it with a 180. We should always encourage our Soldiers to do their very best at every test, and if a leader, be the first to get down and knock them out in front of your command. Integrity is key!

Response by BG Richard M. Tabor made Jun 27 at 2018 4:49 PM

BG Richard M. Tabor — Wed, 27 Jun 2018 16:49:38 -0400

It never did. I agree with the other answers, that all that really matters is that he/she passes and does a good job as commander. Maxing a PT test is pretty much meaningless, as the only thing that goes on the OER is pass/fail.

Response by PO3 Stephen Bryant made Jun 27 at 2018 6:24 PM

PO3 Stephen Bryant — Wed, 27 Jun 2018 18:24:06 -0400

I was never a PT stud, I got average performance, but as an officer you are held to a higher standard. I feel this should be held true across all standards. Not fit enough to pass the test? Not fit enough to lead in my opinion...

Response by SFC Chris Hess made Jun 27 at 2018 8:57 PM

SFC Chris Hess — Wed, 27 Jun 2018 20:57:35 -0400

Like many others, I never gave it a second thought - unless they either failed an event/body fat or looked like they couldn’t make tape. My judgement of my commanders was always based on their actions and their interactions with the Soldiers they led. Now I’m a retired SFC and working as a GS 14 for DOJ. I have much less information with which to form an opinion, but the simple truth stands - a Soldier struggling to fit into his uniform will initially be viewed poorly... even if the PT stud next to him is a turd when it comes to duty performance.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2018 3:32 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jun 2018 15:32:06 -0400

Max? I don't really care about that, but the score had at least be respectable. I don't expect (or want) my CO to be perfect, but I do expect him to put forth the effort he expects from us.

Response by 1SG Deb Burrus made Jun 29 at 2018 6:37 AM

1SG Deb Burrus — Fri, 29 Jun 2018 06:37:00 -0400

Yes Sir, definitely need to do the absolute best you can on the APFT and daily PT. for that matter!
I had both versions of Commander's, and I will tell you, how they did on their own PT. test was noticed by all. If you are going to be a successful leader than you need to lead from the front. I personally was considered a PT stud, but only because I thought it necessary to show my soldier's that I could and would do what I asked them to do. It was always a good day when your whole unit completed the run together! Physical fitness is only one part to being a good leader, but a very important one.

Response by SGT Bryan Fuller made Jun 29 at 2018 11:04 AM

SGT Bryan Fuller — Fri, 29 Jun 2018 11:04:22 -0400

Honestly when I was in I didn’t purely judge anyone on an APFT. Being Infantry we had that “image” we held our leadership in, in that they should lead from the front and do better than those they are leading. In the end if someone has personal battles with physical fitness they need to be recognized and considered. I for the most part did have commanders and platoon leaders that nearly or did max their APFT.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2018 2:27 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 Jun 2018 14:27:52 -0400

Basically if someone just doesn't fall out of unit runs that's all I really care about. CO always sets the pace fpr that though so I expect them to run a decent speed at least, of course not blitzing it but prolly 9 minute a mile speed.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2018 3:11 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Jul 2018 03:11:34 -0400

I know plenty of 300 plus studs who sucked at their jobs! APFT is overrated! With that being said, I’ve always scored 270 or better! As long as the CDR passes I’m good!

Response by CPL Chris Palmberg made Jul 1 at 2018 7:27 AM

CPL Chris Palmberg — Sun, 01 Jul 2018 07:27:02 -0400

What always rankled the hackles of the enlisted, especially junior enlisted, when I was in, regardless of unit or component, was that the handful of officers in the company were never present for PT, and took their APFTs as a group at an "undisclosed location. "
It seemed to me then, and I still feel that if group PT is as much about espirit d' corps as physical readiness, then in that instance where a single standard applies to all personnel, my slightly rotund PL should be leading from the front, or puking up his Monday morning hangover right there with his Joes.
Although they were often seen in PT gear, we never saw an officer actually doing PT until we were deployed. The one we respected the most was the young butterbar who took us to the gym to work out with him every evening we were in a civilized locale.

Response by PO3 Michael E. Shaw made Jul 1 at 2018 9:30 AM

PO3 Michael E. Shaw — Sun, 01 Jul 2018 09:30:19 -0400

Only worry about myself and not anybody else!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2018 12:41 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 12:41:49 -0400

I don’t care what they get as long as they don’t do bullshit push-ups to Max it and then preach about pt later

Response by SGT Matt Duchesne made Jul 2 at 2018 1:49 PM

SGT Matt Duchesne — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 13:49:40 -0400

Pog

Response by Sgt Lorenzo Glover made Jul 2 at 2018 5:07 PM

Sgt Lorenzo Glover — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 17:07:48 -0400

I never really cared. I’m an air winger so our workload was always more important than PT. Honestly if every commander I had failed every PFT I still wouldn’t care because I’d be too busy trying to figure out how I’m gonna meet the flight schedule.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2018 11:52 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Jul 2018 11:52:23 -0400

If they pass then I don’t give a flip

Response by SPC Barbara Moon made Jul 3 at 2018 6:53 PM

SPC Barbara Moon — Tue, 03 Jul 2018 18:53:26 -0400

What mattered most to me was the CO's response to his/her people. I don't care what their PT score was.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 4 at 2018 10:18 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Jul 2018 10:18:23 -0400

As long as they actually take one when the entire unit takes one and they pass, I could care less if they max it or squeak by. I’ve had past CDR’s and officers not take it with the unit ever. It lowered the morale and forced brigade to get involved. When that happened all but one officer failed either PT test or height/weight. It reflected poorly on the unit. I haven’t been in that unit for years now and I still hear negative things. After 3 CDR’s the unit is finally starting to lose its bad rep

Response by LTC Kevin Di Cassio made Jul 4 at 2018 2:30 PM

LTC Kevin Di Cassio — Wed, 04 Jul 2018 14:30:29 -0400

You can’t lead from behind. I always believed in leading by example, and always strived to max the PT test. Never asked my fellow soldiers to do anything that I could not do.

Response by SGT Laveta Carney made Jul 5 at 2018 12:25 AM

SGT Laveta Carney — Thu, 05 Jul 2018 00:25:20 -0400

I never really thought about it but I feel that passing is passing don’t matter by how much, however if my commander was to fail it would be hard to overlook it. Commander want their soldiers to perform and I believe that you lead by example.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2018 12:32 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Jul 2018 00:32:21 -0400

For me the commanders pt test does matter. Last time I took a pt test with my commander he pushed me to max the run as we were side by side. We both maxed out our pt test and for me my commander being better then me makes me respect him more. Many people especially NCO's dont care because they can't exceed the standard themselves so an officer doing good just makes them look bad, but if the officer wants the respect of his Joe's then he should be the best he can be in every area regardless if its something small like a pt test.

Response by GySgt R Harbick made Jul 5 at 2018 12:25 PM

GySgt R Harbick — Thu, 05 Jul 2018 12:25:47 -0400

I’ve been out of the Corps for 21 years now, but I really can’t think certain things have changed all that much. In the Corps an Infantry Officer, especially the Company Commander must lead from the front. He doesn’t have to have the highest PFT score by any means, but he had better be a 1st class PFT. Anything less and he’s not gonna be leading Infantry Marines very long.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2018 3:23 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Jul 2018 15:23:21 -0400

Personally, CO’s and 1SG’s should be leading from the front (as should all other leaders.) As a CO, I expected maximum score and maximum effort. You didn’t have to be the fastest or the strongest as long as my leaders were always striving to improve and their Soldiers could tell they were trying. That was good enough for me and made all the difference to them (Soldiers).

Physical fitness directly correlates to Presence (one of the six leadership requirements). I’ve found that gaining the respect of my subordinates has always started here with Presence, and the first place you start working this is on the PT field side-by-side with your Soldiers. You don’t have to max, but how can you do this if you aren’t fit?

Ultimately, you have to remain humble, encouraging, and I highly recommend a reward program (days for self PT for 90/90/90 or 300, a pass for the highest score but also for the most improved etc.) If your Soldiers are trying, sincerely giving it their all, encourage and help them don’t dog them, but always remember our job is to train them to fight and win for our nation in Full-Spectrum Operations on the ground. To do this they have to effectively preform their job(s) in an austere and dangerous environment which requires being fit. The best way to take care of your Soldiers, is to train them hard and train them well.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2018 8:22 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Jul 2018 20:22:54 -0400

Personal opinion.. i know i rarely max out the APFT, but when it comes to leadership, i dont think they should be able to kick someone out who can’t pass if they can’t pass either. But i feel our leadership should set the bar high for those under them. How can i expect that they have what it takes to keep going and drag my ass if i was to god forbid get wounded, if they can’t continue pushing them selves on their own time to get stronger and rise above?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2018 10:25 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Jul 2018 22:25:23 -0400

My commander is a pt stud. But that’s not the reason why we follow him. We follow and respect him because he is and excellent commander

Response by PO1 Shelli Wolford made Jul 6 at 2018 9:28 AM

PO1 Shelli Wolford — Fri, 06 Jul 2018 09:28:06 -0400

No problem with it at all... as long as I passed mine!

Response by SFC Donn Martin made Jul 6 at 2018 2:42 PM

SFC Donn Martin — Fri, 06 Jul 2018 14:42:38 -0400

The IN Commanders did!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2018 5:11 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Jul 2018 17:11:05 -0400

I'll say as an older junior soldier. I appreciate a good work ethic of all my leaders. You can't expect the soldiers to try and excel in all the walks of being a soldier. If they're leader doesn't do the same. No matter the rank we are always being watched by someone. I am not saying one should be a 300 guy. Just look for effort.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2018 5:16 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Jul 2018 17:16:29 -0400

I've never been concerned about any officer and their ability when it comes to PT in general. I've only ever worried about my soldiers and myself I hold them and myself to the same standards. I would expect an officer in command to be able to pass AFPT. But saying that I'm not accountable for any officer in those regards. But it does show something to the soldiers that fall within his or her command when their commander or any Officer in their chain who strive to do their best to include us NCOs how they should try to exceed not just meet standards

Response by PVT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2018 10:04 PM

PVT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Jul 2018 22:04:08 -0400

Sir to be honest all that matters is that they can pass a pt test

Response by PV2 Joseph Dearborn made Jul 8 at 2018 2:22 PM

PV2 Joseph Dearborn — Sun, 08 Jul 2018 14:22:14 -0400

I wouldn't care how well or bad they do as long as they pass, because I don't believe a commander should ask their troops to do something that they couldn't do. You lead by example.

Response by SGT Joylynn Jackson made Jul 8 at 2018 5:52 PM

SGT Joylynn Jackson — Sun, 08 Jul 2018 17:52:34 -0400

How can anyone enforce a high standard if they are not at least trying to be the best? I understand some people aren’t the best in certain events but continual growth should occur. From my experience most of our officers didn’t take or tests probably because they would fail. And the warrant officers had their apft score cards generated by the orderly room. For me they didn’t have to be the biggest stud though it was cool when they were, but I was happy when they were actually taking the pt tests and were working to do better each time. But typically it is something to look down on.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2018 7:46 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 Jul 2018 19:46:57 -0400

Dont care if they pass. Stupid question. Unless you a special commander. Then that different. Just pass it not.

Response by CW2 Richard Fisher made Jul 8 at 2018 7:51 PM

CW2 Richard Fisher — Sun, 08 Jul 2018 19:51:58 -0400

No big deal at all considering some of the biggest and buffest wussed out after just a couple of miles on a road march while some of the most overweight commanders did it no problem! mental discipline is what is important!

Response by SPC Paul Goodfellow made Jul 8 at 2018 8:18 PM

SPC Paul Goodfellow — Sun, 08 Jul 2018 20:18:58 -0400

I believe that any Officers worth their Salt should be as Fit Mentally as They are Physically. They need not be Rambo, They need to be Compatent and Able.

Response by LtCol Fred Hopewell made Jul 8 at 2018 10:26 PM

LtCol Fred Hopewell — Sun, 08 Jul 2018 22:26:33 -0400

Yes they do! Set the example.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2018 11:38 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 Jul 2018 23:38:03 -0400

I would think less if they failed. My company XO recently failed his pt test. It made me feel like I was in a shitty unit. We know when it's coming. We can prepare. I have a commander that is all about "just doing the minimum". I dont feel this is something that you should preach when you are in any type of leadership role and you have to motivate your soldiers to pass. What kind of an example are you setting?? There also should just be one standard. Having two is biased and giving preference. Besides all of that I understand that people struggled with pt. I went into the army barely passing my run. I applied myself and worked extra hard and came out with a 15 minute run time. I also have had a child since joining the army and still max everything or almost everything. You should always show your soldiers that they can achieve any goal but that they have to work for it. Nothing is free.

Response by SSG Stephen Murphy made Jul 9 at 2018 5:58 AM

SSG Stephen Murphy — Mon, 09 Jul 2018 05:58:48 -0400

I always struggled, but it was my own fault if I didn’t pass. Never looked at anyone other than my Soldiers who were under me. Pushed as hard as they would except it. And then pushed them again!

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2018 8:32 AM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 Jul 2018 08:32:34 -0400

The truth is I won’t think less of a commander just because they couldnt max a pt test hell I can’t max a pt test 286 is the best I can do if you can do better I’ll proudly follow you anywhere

Response by SFC Patrick Stivers made Jul 9 at 2018 2:24 PM

SFC Patrick Stivers — Mon, 09 Jul 2018 14:24:46 -0400

There's an Army standard. Not an officer standard and an enlisted standard. And an APFT does not reflect their overall job performance.

Response by Tarina Brown made Jul 9 at 2018 3:07 PM

Tarina Brown — Mon, 09 Jul 2018 15:07:30 -0400

All my husband’s career he always maxed his pt test even as a company commander with one exception(He was sick and lost 3 points on sit ups). He was in 30 years.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2018 6:48 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 Jul 2018 18:48:48 -0400

I havent thought about that.

Response by SPC David Perrier made Jul 10 at 2018 12:19 PM

SPC David Perrier — Tue, 10 Jul 2018 12:19:11 -0400

If my commander is a PT stud but doesn't know an M-16 from a Latte then it doesn't matter. If he's 400lbs but has won battles without losing a man, then I don't care how in shape he is. For Commanders brain is more important than braun.

Response by SFC Tal Boatner made Jul 10 at 2018 8:54 PM

SFC Tal Boatner — Tue, 10 Jul 2018 20:54:02 -0400

I retired back in 2006 and I scored in the 230-270 range during most of my 21 years in. I rarely remember having knowledge of what a commander or 1SG scored and for the most part it did not matter. Chances are that if they had failed, they would lose their position.

So it mostly didn't matter UNLESS - they were a commander or 1SG that were asses about the APFT. I've never been a fan in any environment of leadership that goes by the do as I say, not as I do mantra.

Generally speaking, it is always best for a leader to set the example - not just meet the minimums.

Response by SPC Mark Lewis made Jul 11 at 2018 12:40 PM

SPC Mark Lewis — Wed, 11 Jul 2018 12:40:25 -0400

It only would have lowered it a bit if he couldn't have passed

Response by SGT Ryan Lissau made Jul 12 at 2018 11:20 AM

SGT Ryan Lissau — Thu, 12 Jul 2018 11:20:03 -0400

Do what you can do. A GO is a GO. If you fail then don't be a dick to your troops that fail.

Response by PO3 Scot Fahey made Jul 14 at 2018 1:24 PM

PO3 Scot Fahey — Sat, 14 Jul 2018 13:24:34 -0400

for 3 years I was in a Detachment, My CO was a photo on a wall, met him a few times. No way to know his PT score for a slender tall fellow

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2018 6:45 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 27 Jul 2018 18:45:52 -0400

I have never cared what my comander's pt score was. I was impressed once though when a MG took a test alongside me. There is a BC in my brigade that has the fastest run time in his battalion. What he does with it is he does a run clinic a few times a year and teaches his soldiers how to improve their run time. That kind of leadership is what matters.

Response by CH (LTC) Robert Leroe made Aug 4 at 2018 7:41 AM

CH (LTC) Robert Leroe — Sat, 04 Aug 2018 07:41:39 -0400

I never saw a commander take the APFT. Maybe they took the "written test." I had commanders who made a big deal about PT yet they did it on their own. As the unit chaplain I ran with the troops, but in some assignments I never saw the Bn/Bde CDR running with us. I was a chaplain but running was the true religion of the Army. Now that I'm retired I've taken up kayaking, a much more pleasant sport.

Response by SFC Scott Higgins made Aug 13 at 2018 7:49 AM

SFC Scott Higgins — Mon, 13 Aug 2018 07:49:53 -0400

From someone who never maxed a PT test, this may sound a little self-serving. No, I don't think it makes someone less entitled to my respect just because they don't max a PT test. Everyone has different strengths. If you can pass the test - you passed the test. End of Story.
However, a commander who can't pass a PT test, should have to undergo the same treatment as any soldier who fails a test.

Response by SGT Brett Naughton made Aug 15 at 2018 1:18 AM

SGT Brett Naughton — Wed, 15 Aug 2018 01:18:40 -0400

My only goal was to beat the LT. My score went from average to exceptional as a benefit.

Response by LCDR Ernest Heassler made Aug 18 at 2018 3:25 PM

LCDR Ernest Heassler — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 15:25:21 -0400

I only cared if they couldn't or wouldn't meet the PT requirement inasmuch as the standard is set for all to meet, including CO's. Shipboard CO's tend to be a bit older and for the most part, not in as physically in shape as they could be so I don't expect them to set the world on fire with their PT scores. It is a key leadership point that they get their butts out on the grinder and be visible doing the test.

Response by Arsenio Ibay made Aug 27 at 2018 1:25 AM

Arsenio Ibay — Mon, 27 Aug 2018 01:25:49 -0400

The only time maxing PT would really matter would be for the "new guy" 2LT - until some experience and credibility gets under the belt, that's part of the initial impression. Whether the officer turns out to be a PT stud/command dud or someone you would follow, time will tell.

Response by LTC Michael Garrison made Aug 29 at 2018 7:33 AM

LTC Michael Garrison — Wed, 29 Aug 2018 07:33:52 -0400

The PT Test is a fact of life in the military, especially in the Army and Marine Corps and we all need to prepare. I was 53 when I took my last test a month before retirement and passed. I cannot compete with my 20 year old enlisted studs, but it's important to always prepare, lead and pass.

Response by SPC Tommy Dean made Aug 29 at 2018 8:55 AM

SPC Tommy Dean — Wed, 29 Aug 2018 08:55:21 -0400

Back in the old days...... before GPS and cell phones, I'd have gladly taken an XO or CO that could read a map over one that could do a hundred pushups. We changed XO's in Europe like changing socks. All very healthy specimens, but the first T intersection baffled them.

Response by 1SG Dale Cantrell made Sep 3 at 2018 11:15 AM

1SG Dale Cantrell — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 11:15:06 -0400

As long as the Cmdr shows an effort for the troops , I would grade the Cmdr and the Cmdr would pass

Response by SFC James Welch made Sep 22 at 2018 9:22 AM

SFC James Welch — Sat, 22 Sep 2018 09:22:11 -0400

I would have to say that there is a difference in a young Company Commander and an older Battalion Commander that has several Combat Rotations under his belt and has been hurt several times or wounded. I admired the Young Officers that ran in front of the Company PT formation every morning but I served with Battalion and Brigade Commanders that had been in Vietnam like I had and had been beat up in endless Combat missions. Yes, youth must be served but it’s more important for an Officer to be able to Plan and execute that plan with with success and low casualty rate!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2018 5:34 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Sep 2018 05:34:22 -0400

I once had a commanding officer who said he wanted his LTs to be PT studs. He said that at least they could shoot, move, and communicate. I said if that is the case, the LT should just shoot himself. He is there to lead and if he can't lead, he needs to be gone. I f he meets the standard, that is all he has to do. Since he is leading Soldiers to death's front door, he better know how to lead.

Response by MGySgt Tommy Martinez made Sep 25 at 2018 9:41 AM

MGySgt Tommy Martinez — Tue, 25 Sep 2018 09:41:15 -0400

I had 300 PFT scores for a long time, fastest time 3 miles 1705 humped no problem. Lead from the front. Got older bad knees and back, thanks to the Infantry maintained a high 1st class. Learned a lesson as long as you can be just as good or better than your Marines you are good. When on a forced march dont fall out. Bn run don't fall out. In the field don't fall out or complain. That is what sets you up for success doing what they are doing. They suffer in the rain you suffer also. On the aspect of failing if an officer, SNCO or NCO did fail don't need to lead it is a basic requirement just like riffle qual.

Response by CW4 Robert C. made Sep 27 at 2018 2:29 PM

CW4 Robert C. — Thu, 27 Sep 2018 14:29:42 -0400

I don't think that their PT test would influence my thoughts of them. As long as they pass their PT test is all I think about. Those Stud Muffin Commanders should really be taken out back and shot, because they think that everybody should be like them and that just is not the case. If you want to be a PT stud just remember that not everybody has that drive to be a PT stud and as long as they pass their PT Test then leave them alone and don't try to force them to do more. Those kind of Commanders make me sick, because then they look down on you and that should not be the way they look at us. Anyway as usual just my take on the matter.

Response by SPC James McCullough made Sep 29 at 2018 10:55 PM

SPC James McCullough — Sat, 29 Sep 2018 22:55:55 -0400

The way I saw it they were paper pushers. I was more concerned with there knolage of battle tactics. With that said all of my commanders could hold there own during PT. That also include my Lt's come to think about it.

Response by CPT Andrew Trimble made Oct 1 at 2018 5:46 PM

CPT Andrew Trimble — Mon, 01 Oct 2018 17:46:38 -0400

Either as Enlisted or an Officer the only thing that ever pissed me off about it was when the officers (My Commander or otherwise) would coerce the NCO's into accepting bull shit push-ups. I spent 32 years on the Tank so you know Tankers are not known for being PT studs we would pass the test and just barely pass tape and that was good enough, as long as we could break track, lift road wheels and sling main gun rounds that's all that counted. However, when those one or two officers roll through that couldn't do push ups and everybody knew it and yet somehow their score always reflected 100 points, those guys I had no respect for. When I commissioned I never allowed anyone to pad my score under any circumstances. if I score a 225 then so-be-it.

Response by SSG Gregg Mourizen made Oct 7 at 2018 12:42 AM

SSG Gregg Mourizen — Sun, 07 Oct 2018 00:42:22 -0400

Personally, I have always felt to much emphasis has been placed on PT score. I have known plenty of PT studs with ZERO leadership skills. Education, Training, Key ;leadership skills are essential to good leadership. Yes, physical fitness is important for all soldiers, but has no significance to ones ability to lead. I don't care if they are max score or barely passing. If they are an idiot, they are still an idiot. I have seen top tier soldiers treated like sh--bags, because of 1% bodyfat, 1 or two pushups or situps, even 1 second on a run (seen them debate that one). I have seen selfish, self centered incompetent glory hounds, who's only skill is their PT score.
Look at a leader/ soldiers ability to do their job, interact with their troops, their ability to lead. If you think they need a little help with their PT step up and help them out.
Don't judge them for their shortcomings , unless you want them tolook at your shortcomings.
Believe me, we all have them.

Response by SSG Shoyn Jones made Oct 12 at 2018 8:25 PM

SSG Shoyn Jones — Fri, 12 Oct 2018 20:25:45 -0400

How can you set the standard when you as a commander can’t pass the PT test and I have seen this happen before when I was in the Army

Response by SPC Phillip Vossler made Oct 13 at 2018 11:04 AM

SPC Phillip Vossler — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 11:04:28 -0400

I dont think any Commander i had was a pt stud, but i would find it highly hypocritical for them to scream at me for not passing it, if they couldn't.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2018 12:51 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 12:51:42 -0400

Look you should always try to get a 300 you are the leader of the unit you command. Almost every unit I was in required a minimum above the minimum like a 270 or higher if you can't get that score as the commander you have failed. Unless injured don't be a dirt bag and set a good example.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2018 1:14 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 13:14:47 -0400

If my commander couldn’t score a 270 or above, everyone in the company would be tracking. I’ve never seen an instance where that was the case though. That may be because I’ve always been in infantry companies and infantry officers are always really fast or really strong or both. Rarely have I ever seen one that didn’t fall into one of those categories, they stay in S shops and never become PLs or Commanders I think honestly.

Response by CSM John Mead made Oct 13 at 2018 1:27 PM

CSM John Mead — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 13:27:57 -0400

Set the example by doing the best that you can. If your soldiers busting your ass, they don't care if you are not a 300 every time.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2018 1:52 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 13:52:30 -0400

Do your best, and satisfy yourself.

Response by 1SG Paul Beal made Oct 13 at 2018 2:16 PM

1SG Paul Beal — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 14:16:52 -0400

An APFT score is not a measure of leadership ability. An ignorant meathead can supermax but can’t find the latrine without a PFC. meeting and exceed the standard is expected, having to max is ridiculous. The ability to inspire others to succeed and grow as soldiers trumps running sub six miles as an indicator of leadership.

Response by 1SG Bob Baker made Oct 13 at 2018 2:36 PM

1SG Bob Baker — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 14:36:12 -0400

In the 22 years I served, I only had two PT studs for Commander. Both were natural jocks, but not great officers as their basic soldier skills suffered by their spending more time in the gym. On the other hand, I also had two officers (an 0-3 and an 0-5) who were so out of shape they would have been liabilities in the event of having to deploy.

Response by Capt Bryson Blake made Oct 13 at 2018 2:37 PM

Capt Bryson Blake — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 14:37:27 -0400

In Special Operations, it definitely matters. The best commanders also happened to be PT studs, even pushing 50 and older. There was a saying one of the best Colonels I knew used to say, "We're going for a run, I don't know how far or how fast, but I expect you to be there next to me at the end." It was an analogy to his type of leadership, where he would never ask anyone in his command to do something he couldn't do or hadn't already done in his career. It's the age-old idea of the difference between management and leadership. Leaders inspire and set the example for their subordinates through their actions. Performing sub-par on a PT test might seem like no big deal, because it's not important in the whole scheme of things, but if the commander commits to excelling at even the small things, it shows that they also excel at the more important things. It's a simple concept, to dedicate oneself to excelling in all areas, big and small, but it certainly isn't easy, which is what makes it so important for leaders to do. They can expect their subordinates to live up to the high standards they set when they demonstrate with their actions that such a goal is actually possible to achieve.

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2018 2:45 PM

1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 14:45:59 -0400

Commanders are expected to set the standard. If you're ok with having mediocre standards, I guess it doesn't matter how he does.

My partner will be expected to at least keep up with me and set a clear example of expectations.

Response by SPC Jared Lewis made Oct 13 at 2018 2:54 PM

SPC Jared Lewis — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 14:54:12 -0400

My opinion of my command was solely based on there ability to lead the troops, if they trashed on a soldier for not passing when they couldn't pass themselves that's not leading your soldiers correctly. However I have had officers that have gone to spec. pops pt to better themselves and to show the soldiers that they are willing to better themselves and their soldiers.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2018 3:00 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 15:00:29 -0400

My commanders are always PT studs. The are always Triple canopy as well. Our newest CO actually had ALL officer PT at the O course just to find out the physical shape of his officers. In the airborne community, we don’t accept average. Set the standard or find a new job.

Response by SP5 Tim Fenoglia made Oct 13 at 2018 3:02 PM

SP5 Tim Fenoglia — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 15:02:51 -0400

Get a profile. If you can't beat them......join them. If you gave a shit about what people thought of you then why did you join the Army?

Response by PVT Mark Zehner made Oct 13 at 2018 3:07 PM

PVT Mark Zehner — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 15:07:56 -0400

Always though it was awesome when my CO maxed gave me something to shoot for as well!

Response by SGT Philip Keys made Oct 13 at 2018 3:25 PM

SGT Philip Keys — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 15:25:14 -0400

I don't think any of us cared and I just expected the old man to pass. We had a 1SG the guy had muscles on his face. He looked sharpe in a uniform and would max the PT test every time. This guy was not the sharpest tool in the shed and since he was horrible at his job received zero respect from 90% of us. The commander was an average or slightly better PT guy. The boss was super smart, knew his job, and was a great leader. Most of us still talk to the commander and we left the army 22 years ago. The CO retired and now spends his time helping soldiers with PTSD.

Response by 1SG Rob Smith made Oct 13 at 2018 3:25 PM

1SG Rob Smith — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 15:25:21 -0400

As an old 1SG. I always worked for my personal best. However I was to set the example. Now for my boss his personal best was his goal. But to fail for any Soldier regardless of who they are or their rank is not acceptable. Senior NCOS are in charge of the standards of the unit. PERIOD! SO IF THE COMMANDER FALLS SHORT THEY NEED TO BE COUNSELED. NOBODY IS ABOVE THE LAW SO TO SPEAK. IVE EXPERIENCED OFFICERS BEING IN THAT MINDSET. NCOS ARE TO TAKE CARE OF ALL SOLDIERS REGARDLESS OF THEIR RANK INCLUDING OFFICERS. THEY ARE RESISTANT TO THIS IDEA BUT THAT IS THE WAY IT IS. I JUST DUG IN MY HEALS AND THEY FINALLY GOT THE MEGGAGE. DO IT TACTFULLY.
MY RULE OF THUMB AS I PASSED IT ALONG TO SOLDIERS IS THIS
DISAGREEMENT IS NOT DISRESPECT!

Response by PO1 Barbara Matthews made Oct 13 at 2018 4:27 PM

PO1 Barbara Matthews — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 16:27:55 -0400

I'm a veteran now and have osteoarthritis in both knees and both hips. I gave all that I could give on PT. And I sucked at it. I mean my scores were mostly barely passing.

I did better when I first entered the Navy but as I aged I struggled even more. I did the mando thing as well. I would run with my unit/department/division then run again with the remedial group.

When I got in my late 30's it got harder. I failed one run by 15 seconds. It was heart breaking. I was 38 and a PO1 (equal to SSG). But I got out there again and again trying. I totally suck at running. I injured my foot by tearing a tendon and kept trying. I took a lot of heat about it too.

In the end of my career I was forced out because I just couldn't keep the pace. I had 15 years active duty and 2 years in the Guard. And had people think I was just trying to get out easy. I stayed until the end of my enlistment and want allowed to reenlist.
Sometimes, somethings are just harder for some people. I injured my self trying to meet the standard. I just sucked at running.

Nowadays nobody cares about that part of my service. I just want other leaders to see that some of the Soldiers, Sailors, Marines or Airmen are actually trying harder than you think they are. They may be pushing themselves until it hurts.

Response by 1SG Dave McWilliams made Oct 13 at 2018 4:40 PM

1SG Dave McWilliams — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 16:40:32 -0400

For anyone to make a snap judgement on their commander on the PT alone doesn’t have the understanding of a long term / career soldier . I was over 24
Years and the majority of my career was above the standard on everything but the run but always did in the 290s level . One month prior to 20 years I blew my knee out during Organized sports and was never the same . I made sure to maximize my efforts of taking care of my Troops . If a soldier is one dimensional PT may be all they
Look at but those troops that are bigger picture or possibly Career know the military takes a tole on the body .

Response by SSG David Blees made Oct 13 at 2018 4:58 PM

SSG David Blees — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 16:58:58 -0400

As long as they pass and set a good example. Did not like commanders who did not do PT with the troops.

Response by LTC Jeff Shearer made Oct 13 at 2018 5:29 PM

LTC Jeff Shearer — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 17:29:15 -0400

I never had a Commander that did bad I had some that were freaks of nature. I had one that would max the PT test and when he finished he would make sure everyone was done then he would go do his daily PT. Freak of nature.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2018 5:34 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 17:34:08 -0400

On the first day that one of my former COs took over, he stated that he hated to run. He also stated that he would buy supper for anyone that beat him in the run portion of the prt during the time he was our CO. He looked a little pudgy, and definitely did not look like a runner. Come time for the prt, he started in the rear. He ended up passing everyone but 5 people in our battalion. He did this every prt, and he always gave anyone that could beat him a $ 50.00 Gift Card.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2018 6:09 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 18:09:13 -0400

Personally I never really cared. As a SGT I worked hard for my PT. I was never the PT “stud”. SU’s were not much of a problem and PU’s gave me some difficulty but I have always hated running and had to work hard just to get past the minimum.
I have had Supervisors as well as Commanders who were PT studs and some who weren’t for a variety of reasons. How well they did on the APFT wasn’t a factor in how I respected them or what I thought of them.
Now there were some exceptions.
I did have one Commander who because of an injury had got the walk thru APFT. He was a good CO and he did work hard to get back to standards; but on the opposite side of the coin he reacted as if Soldiers who struggled were just not trying.
Also with a different CO; I had injured my lower back and because of it I couldn’t participate in PT; so when the APFT came once I was off profile I did my best but still failed the run by a handful of seconds. The company commander automatically wanted a flag put on me. That lessened my opinion of that CPT, especially when I noted that the CO had “fell” out of the company run that was led by her, and was at a pace that she designated.

Response by SSG Paul Newman made Oct 13 at 2018 6:09 PM

SSG Paul Newman — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 18:09:58 -0400

As a medic ( I know there are going to be people who disagree) I saw 2 different PT realities. The ones when I was in the Infantry and the one when I was assigned to a hospital. The infantry C.O.'s were fit and more so than I. Not so much at the hospitals. But if your Colonel who runs the hospital is also a good surgeon and knows how to run a hospital, who cares if he can run 2 miles in 14 minutes. I want him to be able to see up an artery in under 2 min.

Response by SSG Raul Lopez made Oct 13 at 2018 6:31 PM

SSG Raul Lopez — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 18:31:11 -0400

The CO should lead by example, that is passing his APFT and height and weight since he will enforce those standards on the unit but like it was said before Id rather have a good leader than a PT stud.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2018 6:38 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 18:38:49 -0400

I don’t know, or have I ever known, my Commanders PT score. This might be shocking to some but a PT score has almost nothing to do with one’s leadership abilities. So long as my leaders, at all levels, take them and pass is all that matters.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2018 6:45 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 18:45:30 -0400

I had one commander who was visibly out of Army height-weight standards. His PT card was reported to have had a score of 300 on it. The unit in which this occurred had issues in it that cause me to believe that the rumor mill as correct on that, and again, there is NO WAY he was passing his weigh-in/tape test. Nobody had any respect for him - but that PT issue was only part of the reason. Still, I guess this was more a lack of integrity thing that offended us. All the other officers I encountered in the Army were very high-performing on the APFT. Furthermore, most of the officers I encountered would go out of their way to participate in training with us that was unpleasant and that they really didn't need to do and we took notice of that and it made a good impression on us.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2018 7:14 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 19:14:36 -0400

Running fast doesn’t make you a good leader...

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2018 7:39 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 19:39:52 -0400

I care about effort more than score, which drives me crazy if I see a lack of from from an officer, NCO or soldier. In April I had reconstructive ankle surgery and was laid up for three months. My goal was to pass the PT test within 5 months after surgery. For one reason to set the example to the soldiers below me and show perserverence. After being released from therapy, it would hurt every step I took but kept going. When the PT test was administered at the ripe age of 36 sadly I was the first one done on the run. This next generation definitely has me very concerned. This was a PT test for soldiers who struggle with the test not the entire unit.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2018 8:05 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 20:05:55 -0400

As long as they passed it and put forth a good effort is all I cared. When I was a commander I never maxed a PT test but I usually scored over 250

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2018 8:23 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 20:23:00 -0400

PT Test doesn't make u a great and or a good soldier. In my years in service, I have soldier(s) that max out / 300 and they suck at their daily task or 90 days FTX. If my Commander doesn't max but he can LEAD, that's all it matter to me.

Response by Shane Harnett made Oct 13 at 2018 8:26 PM

Shane Harnett — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 20:26:09 -0400

My view has always been a pass is a pass. I always encouraged my men to put 100% into everything. The times I had issues were when the CO was failing tests and still had a job yet if one of the men failed they would be demoted and sometimes transferred to a non line unit.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2018 8:27 PM

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 20:27:16 -0400

You can’t lead from the rear especially for Company Grade. They should inspire and be in top notch condition how can you hold others to the standard if you are not their yourself.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2018 8:40 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 20:40:21 -0400

As a CSM I ensured my CDR and I always took our AFPT with the unit. If a CDR or Senior NCO fails the test they need to be removed. To lead by example you have to set the standard, which isn’t 60%! You need to push yourself to exceed the minimum. Your Soldier’s look to you for leadership, guidance and an example. Meet it or move out of the position!

Response by PO1 Alan Sparks made Oct 13 at 2018 9:01 PM

PO1 Alan Sparks — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 21:01:52 -0400

All millitary personnel should pass there respective fitness tests, and strive to do the best they can. Just pass...that's it.

Response by Sgt Harley Shoaff made Oct 13 at 2018 9:04 PM

Sgt Harley Shoaff — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 21:04:42 -0400

Every officer doesn’t have to beat every enlisted man, that is impossible. But they should score above average.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2018 9:38 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 21:38:53 -0400

I've never bothered to comment on one of these things but here's my two cents.

In my short 8 year tenure I've had a total of 4 CO's. The best one I had was an individual who could fly with the best and would not hesitate to stand up to anyone and tell them to fuck off when someone tried to make his soldiers do something stupid. He took care of soldiers first, everything else was second. This person couldn't run worth a damn. Did fine on the other events but was a shit runner.

On the other end of the spectrum I had captain America incarnate. A pt stud to put pt studs to shame. Great guy, loved his soldiers easy to talk to. But would not tell battalion no to anything because they knew that was the next stop in their career after. They didn't want to rock the boat.

I say all of that to say this. None of it matters. Whether you score 30 or 300 the only thing that any of us should be thinking about; do we know our soldiers. Are we doing everything humanly or inhumanely possible to take care of those entrusted to us? Do we know what's going on in their lives? Do they know and trust us enough to open up about the things going right and the things going wrong? Ultimately have we made a positive impact in the lives of those around us.

"And that's all I've got to say about the war in Vietnam."

Response by SPC Larry John Frazier Jr. made Oct 13 at 2018 10:26 PM

SPC Larry John Frazier Jr. — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 22:26:30 -0400

Well I’m up in the air on this one. Cause I believe that if your a leader you should set the example. I can’t remember having a commander that did not have a 250 or better. It was their personal goal to set that standard for their soilders. Now I always had trouble with sit-ups. I was lucky to get over the minimum on them. I have a funky tail bone issue. But would either max push ups or close to it. And run my 2 mile between 12:45-13:11. Depending on the night before. I’ll never forget my best score 285 it was on 9-11 I maxed everything but sit-ups but did get like 80 sit-ups which I was never able to come close again. But I think if your in leadership your responsible to set a standard . Infantrymen are only as good as their leaders. If you have a commander that struggles with P.F then it’s not a good field to be in. Infantrymen have to be at the top of are game. Or we don’t make it home.

Response by SP6 Eric Blue made Oct 13 at 2018 10:56 PM

SP6 Eric Blue — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 22:56:01 -0400

Unless it was posted, Soldiers probably never knew the CMDRs PT score.

Response by SSG Harry Jr. Peters made Oct 13 at 2018 10:59 PM

SSG Harry Jr. Peters — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 22:59:38 -0400

Never really cared about how anyone besides myself and my soldiers did on any test weather it be pt range fire or whatever

Response by MSgt Michael Lane made Oct 13 at 2018 11:00 PM

MSgt Michael Lane — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 23:00:14 -0400

I was never privy to the comand staff scores, so I never gave it much thought.

Response by SPC Rick LaBonte made Oct 13 at 2018 11:17 PM

SPC Rick LaBonte — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 23:17:13 -0400

My main concern with a commander was how smoothly the unit operated. I’ve had some COs that had an excellent command style, one I had shouldn’t have commanded a shit burning detail! Seemed like everything he did was to hinder unit efficiency

Response by 1SG Larry Taggart made Oct 13 at 2018 11:18 PM

1SG Larry Taggart — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 23:18:15 -0400

No it never mattered all that much to me if my Commander was a PT Stud. I knew and understood they had many others pulling on them for their time. As long as they passed the test or met the Company standard. I also would not allow my Soldiers to make an issue of it if the Commander was not a PT Stud. Now I made it my mission to ensure that I always bested the Commander in. All things physical. That was at sometimes difficult but as the 1SG I had a more direct influence on the troops when it came to do as I say because I can do it too. If the Commander was a good Leader than how well they did on the PT test made no difference.

Response by SGT Owen McPhillips made Oct 13 at 2018 11:39 PM

SGT Owen McPhillips — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 23:39:04 -0400

Never cared one bit, above platoon leaders. I just wanted them to make good decisions. Never once did the thought cross my mind that the athletic or marksmanship prowess of anyone wearing more than one shiny bar would save or damn me or my guys.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2018 12:03 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 00:03:11 -0400

240 to 250 is within reason for a commander or any other leader for that matter but not steller. It gave Soldiers an opportunity to beat me and prevented me from having a heart attack on the track. Whatever goal Soldiers are to achieve though, a commander damn well better achieve as well.

Response by Lt Col George Roll made Oct 14 at 2018 12:30 AM

Lt Col George Roll — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 00:30:19 -0400

At the JSOC /JCU we had troops from AF,ARMY, NAVY and MARINES. we did semi annual PT tests First Navy then AF the n Army and finally USMC. As the unit Operations Officer I did all four in sucession with the unit members from that service.
On the 4th. test one of my Marines was ragging on me saying he had beaten me on the run. I checked there is an allowance for age. And when we scored on that basis I had gotten a higher point score. The men in my unit definately responded favorably to my being willing and able to take all of the tests and score nearly max scores on each.
So yes I do believe troops look up to leaders who can do everything they expect from their subordinates.

Response by CSM John Nichols made Oct 14 at 2018 12:48 AM

CSM John Nichols — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 00:48:19 -0400

I don’t judge a commander by his APFT score. I judge him/her by their ability to lead and plan. I do judge a commander if they can’t pass the APFT and I do expect them to give 100% effort on all of the events on the APFT. That’s leading from the front.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2018 1:55 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 01:55:21 -0400

I continually ran 2 miles under 12 minutes. Combat boots with buttpack. My company commander, Capt. Hawk, always beat me.

Response by MSgt Dollar Bill Rutledge made Oct 14 at 2018 2:21 AM

MSgt Dollar Bill Rutledge — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 02:21:35 -0400

They just like everyone else should do their dead level best. In the Air Force I didn’t accept half assed. We had a maintenance officer once who was in his mind a big stud athelete. It screwed him completely up when I ran the mile and a half faster than him while riding my two year old daughter on my shoulders.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2018 6:11 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 06:11:05 -0400

I’ve never known any of my commanders pt scores.

Response by SFC Charlie Broadus II made Oct 14 at 2018 6:36 AM

SFC Charlie Broadus II — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 06:36:43 -0400

When I was in I Did not really care that much about a PT score for me it was more about doing your job

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2018 7:14 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 07:14:52 -0400

If the commander passes, that's all I care about. I consistently score between 225 and 250 on mine. I'm not a PT stud, never have been, never will be. I find that those who want to fault me for that are the same ones who don't care about my job performance, so I just ignore those idiots. Sure, I could spend three plus hours in the gym every day...but that would take time away from mastering my craft...and THAT is what a Chief Warrant Officer is supposed to be doing.

Response by CSM David Draughn made Oct 14 at 2018 8:22 AM

CSM David Draughn — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 08:22:51 -0400

Soldiers look down on any leader who fails to lead from the front, especially at the team, squad, platoon, company and battalion level. Speaking from my almost 30 years as an infantryman I know this to be truthful. Even in the posts on this site, we read about “this or that leader” who does not “go outside the wire” on patrol, but while in the FOB these individuals run around enforcing the “PT belt rule.” The same phenomenon existed in Vietnam and in Korea. Soldiers demand top notch leadership. If a leader demands an average PT or weapons qualification score from their soldiers, you can rest assured that the leader’s PT and weapons qualification will be a point of discussion across the board. The leader must share hardship and pain with their soldiers in every aspect of their missions. Leaders are in charge, officers command, of course are responsible for their unit’s performance; however, being a part of every performance the unit undertakes is crucial to effective leadership. It’s easy to order soldiers into Harm’s Way. It’s tough to lead those soldiers there.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2018 8:33 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 08:33:30 -0400

Lmao. Look if they “couldn’t pass a PT test”, the they failed an army standard and should t be a commander. That’s my thoughts. What kind of question is this?

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2018 9:05 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 09:05:39 -0400

I believe officers and NCOs alike should have a passing PT score. Not only should they pass but they should take the test with their subordinate Soldiers. For me it is an appearance thing. If they appear fit and take the test with an audience then they can preach to those that fail the APFT. If they don’t those words have no merit.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2018 9:54 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 09:54:34 -0400

The answer to this will vary greatly from unit to unit and mos to mos. I can tell you as a commander in the 82nd, it probably matters more to some here than it does down in Stewart, or Hood for instance.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2018 10:34 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 10:34:25 -0400

Officers take pt tests?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2018 10:49 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 10:49:17 -0400

A large part of the Army (and military) is physical dominance. It starts from the top down. My BN CDR requires all his leaders (PSG and above) to score a 290. Guess what? A year later and we pretty much all score above a 290. I would say this varies from unit to unit, but generally in an active duty BCT most of your CDRs are going to be PT studs. They are either CSL Select (BN level) or fighting for a command position (CO) with 60 other captains in the BDE S3 shop. One distinguishing factor (certainly not the only one) is PT score.

Response by 1SG Joseph Cunningham made Oct 14 at 2018 10:58 AM

1SG Joseph Cunningham — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 10:58:58 -0400

It all depends on the Command. I had 3 officers fail APFT and body fat when I had an HHT. My intent was to flag them like any one of my NCOs or Junior enlisted. I was told as 1SG, officers were not my concern and magically the all showed up on the troop FIT report as passing both events.

Response by SGT Tim Soyars made Oct 14 at 2018 11:12 AM

SGT Tim Soyars — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 11:12:35 -0400

I could max everything but the run. I had a good time on the run, but I was more of the pack horse type than the racehorse. I had a CO once who said that everyone who beat his score would get a three day pass. Raw score, EVERYONE in the company beat him. So then he pulled is age card and got an adjusted score that put about 1/3 of the company out of the running. This was an 0-3 in his mid 30s who had been passed over for 0-4 and was looking at it happening again. He was at an age when most NCOs would be looking at retirement. Age card was a dick move. No respect for that

Response by CW3 Larry Sarmiento made Oct 14 at 2018 11:38 AM

CW3 Larry Sarmiento — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 11:38:33 -0400

I believe you should only expect the best out of both leaders/subordinates. Everyone’s best, subjectively- no matter what level, so long as it’s passing - can be celebrated. Not everyone needs to be equal. But everyone has to do their best.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2018 11:47 AM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 11:47:22 -0400

I will say this, if an officer is ahead of me on a run, I'm passing him or going down, no matter what. So if only to motivate people behind him, yes they should be at least decent in PT.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2018 12:07 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 12:07:54 -0400

Don't really care how someone does on their PT test. I will only really care if one of my soldiers sets themselves a goal I.e do well enough to go to selection. However if the commander puts out a company standard of 250 then he needs to live up to his own standard

Response by COL Dana Hampton made Oct 14 at 2018 12:23 PM

COL Dana Hampton — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 12:23:51 -0400

I didn’t think more or less of any leader by theie score on the APFT. I did, however, think less of them if they took the APFT away from the troops. So as a commander, I took my APFT with my Soldiers standing in line with all of them an getting the same random graders they got. As a battalion commander, my CSM an I would rotate taking the test with a different battery each time so all the Soldiers got to see their leaders taking the test with them and under the same conditions.

It also gave me an opportunity to talk with my Soldiers one on one.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2018 12:26 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 12:26:21 -0400

My med o was a PT stud, had a ranger tab, worked the shit out of us with cross fit style pt on days we weren’t running 4 miles. Pretty good officer, especially for Ft. Hood standards.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2018 12:30 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 12:30:28 -0400

It matters. If a commander is fat and out shape that sets an example, a negative one. If a commander is fit, it also sets an example; the right one. Nothing sets an immediate negative precedent like a fat officer or Soldier. The injury thing is an excuse. I know many people who have suffered significant combat wounds including upper leg amputee, loss of limbs and even eyes; yet, they still maintain a high level of physical fitness and look the part. If you don’t have the self discipline to take care of yourself..that is telling.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2018 12:34 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 12:34:29 -0400

As a 1SG & part of the command team I feel that it is important to do more then just meet the minimum standard in all that we do. I am not saying that commanders need to be PT studs but in order to inspire troops to do better then the bare minimum you have to lead by example in everything we do

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2018 1:17 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 13:17:55 -0400

Need to pass...I don't care about 300 score.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2018 1:37 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 13:37:32 -0400

I honestly could care less dosent influence how they lead. I've seen people like myself who struggle with weight and passing PT outwork and outperform those PT studs.

Response by SFC Tereasa Menke made Oct 14 at 2018 1:48 PM

SFC Tereasa Menke — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 13:48:34 -0400

I knew a few pathetic officers (normally aviation) that could not even crawl thier lazy asses out of bed in time!!!

Response by SGT Bj Anderson made Oct 14 at 2018 2:56 PM

SGT Bj Anderson — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 14:56:29 -0400

Time is the only thing in this life that is undefeated. I personally think you should look at the officers career and trends in physical performance. It should peak in that area between Captain and Major. You will see a decline though as age and injuries start to take its toll. You ever seen any soldier with 10+ years in that doesn't have something wrong with them physically? PT stud 2LT straight out of Ranger school is awesome but give me that hard as nails, done seen some shit LtC and CSM any day even if they are broken. Leadership comes from experience and some of those experiences are going to hurt physically and mentally. It all takes its toll.

Response by Capt Joseph Schvimmer made Oct 14 at 2018 2:59 PM

Capt Joseph Schvimmer — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 14:59:59 -0400

My commanders led the way as i did with my units. This should not be a problem unless your commander turns 75

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2018 3:08 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 15:08:16 -0400

I am not worried if my commander was a PT stud I am not that I passed my tests wasent always the best but passed but on some occasions I notice there was officer standards then there was enlisted standards officers not doing Correct push ups and sit-ups when I graded soldiers for there apft I counted all the good sit ups and push ups none of this double standards crap but all in all most of my commanders we're good overall

Response by CSM Todd Svenson made Oct 14 at 2018 4:34 PM

CSM Todd Svenson — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 16:34:58 -0400

I never had a PL, Company Commander, or Battalion Commander counterpart who didn't max the APFT. Any leader who cannot lead by example should be tossed.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2018 4:50 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 16:50:44 -0400

As long as they passed I was good. I not into u have to be a pt stud. I have seen to many pt studs at every level that couldn't lead ants to a picnic if they where already on the blanket

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2018 6:01 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 18:01:47 -0400

I feel like some might feel it depends on the type of commander. If your CO is one minute threating someones future because they aren’t motivated or they aren’t scoring high enough, then the same CO goes and hits that 181 or just “pencil whips” his or her test then yea I’m will to bet the troops are gonna at you like a turd simple. Soldiers don’t want to see perfection, they wanna see leaders sucking along side them. It’s not a hard concept on some fronts, your soldiers have to destroy themselves every six months, why can’t the CO do it too?

Response by SGT Ted Bauer made Oct 14 at 2018 6:18 PM

SGT Ted Bauer — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 18:18:03 -0400

Would think less of them in 10th mountain division had some studs hood athletes

Response by Sgt Dylan Kazich made Oct 14 at 2018 6:36 PM

Sgt Dylan Kazich — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 18:36:08 -0400

Wouldn't care if they didn't get a high score, but any leadership billet/rank that couldn't PASS a PFT, would automatically make me think less than them as a leader. Commanders especially, since they are usually the ones who will NJP/push for discharge at the first sign of weigh-in/PFT failure.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2018 6:51 PM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 18:51:37 -0400

Every CO I have had holds a company standard of a 270 on the APFT. Every CO I have had does not score over a 270 on the APFT. I don’t think less of them because they don’t score well on the APFT, I think less of them cause they can not hold their own standard.

Response by SPC Terry Williamson made Oct 14 at 2018 8:53 PM

SPC Terry Williamson — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 20:53:43 -0400

A large number of my officers and warrants were Viet Nam veterans who had already proven themselves , they had nothing to prove to me in any arena.

Response by SGT JessicaLucinda Williams made Oct 14 at 2018 9:39 PM

SGT JessicaLucinda Williams — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 21:39:28 -0400

Maxing a pt test just meant you were in good physical shape, didnt reflect on your abilities as a Cdr, in my eyes. Although being a pt buff often made some overlook that you were a soup sandwich as a soldier.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2018 10:22 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 22:22:49 -0400

It also depends on branch and unit. Had this same discussion today after the unit APFT. 82nd ABN...anything under a unit's "minimum" and that soldier is gone. On the other hand, for a med unit...if a doctor is an expert at patching me up and keeping me alive, I couldn't care less what his APFT score is.

Response by SSG Ron Raade made Oct 14 at 2018 11:00 PM

SSG Ron Raade — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 23:00:03 -0400

I never worried about tests. How they performed in the field was all I cared about. Most folks are nursing injuries and if they ruck up and go, that's enough.

Response by SSG Jess Peters made Oct 15 at 2018 12:11 AM

SSG Jess Peters — Mon, 15 Oct 2018 00:11:38 -0400

As.long as they.pass. The score doesntatter.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 15 at 2018 12:18 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 15 Oct 2018 00:18:57 -0400

Flip the narrative on its head for a minute. Ever met the guy that was dumb as dogs-it, but he got a 300 apft, so he could do no wrong. Physicality is important, the apft isn’t the whole picture, but it is the metric that the army prays to.

Response by Olumide Paul made Oct 15 at 2018 8:16 AM

Olumide Paul — Mon, 15 Oct 2018 08:16:35 -0400

BS you set the standard u just pass and pass with a good score that’s how you prove to your dungeon troops u are the commander

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 15 at 2018 11:37 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 15 Oct 2018 11:37:31 -0400

I'm much more interested in a commander's ability to run the show. Specifically related to making sure I have everything I need to focus on my job. The more the front line has to look at the admin side, is his stuff taken care of, am I getting screwed, etc; the less he's focusing on the mission. Ultimately that's the end all, support is there for that specific reason, to support. If Joe is distracted, he's not as effective. I want to see command very little, I want to know they're in the toc insuring I have what I need to get shit done. My mission effectiveness has never been adversely affected because the commander didn't max a pt test.

Response by Sgt Phil Quintana made Oct 15 at 2018 12:22 PM

Sgt Phil Quintana — Mon, 15 Oct 2018 12:22:05 -0400

In the Marine Corps it was unthinkable. Mondays, Wednesdays & Fridays at 1400 we had company PT, the skipper ALWAYS led. Cpt Marriott was fanatical. If we didn't have the highest average score in the battalion, he was pissed. Jeez, even Col Harms, the battalion commander, would come out and PT with us!

Response by TSgt Patrick Doyle made Oct 15 at 2018 12:30 PM

TSgt Patrick Doyle — Mon, 15 Oct 2018 12:30:23 -0400

Passing is passing, on a side note, I had to leave the military cause I couldn't do the required amount of situps, the back surgery was to risky that I needed to accomplish this part of my PT, so after 28 years of faithful service, it was suggested that I retire

Response by SFC Kenneth Goins made Oct 15 at 2018 6:13 PM

SFC Kenneth Goins — Mon, 15 Oct 2018 18:13:59 -0400

And that question is coming from a medical officer. What the hell do you care? You’ll never lead troops!

Response by SFC John Suttles made Oct 16 at 2018 6:59 AM

SFC John Suttles — Tue, 16 Oct 2018 06:59:30 -0400

No one wears a fed cape in the Army. It is just possible that your commander is twice your age. My CO failed a PT test once cause he had the flu. It actually made him seem more human. His job is to run his outfit, our job was to move the mountain.
John Suttles
SSG, Inf, USAR, (Ret)

Response by SSG Pedro Tapia made Oct 16 at 2018 8:03 AM

SSG Pedro Tapia — Tue, 16 Oct 2018 08:03:38 -0400

I came from a combat arms mos and we do care about a commander who is not physically capable to perform well on his APFT. You dont have to max it, but you better be above average. They are not participating trophies in the military, the more you sweat in peace, the less you bled in combat.

Response by SPC Marc Coyle made Oct 16 at 2018 8:53 AM

SPC Marc Coyle — Tue, 16 Oct 2018 08:53:37 -0400

When i was in, i judged my superiors by the standards they keep. If a commander demanded that everyone go beyond the standard and they only met the standard then they lost my respect. My big thing is lead by example. If a commander only does the minimum then he/ she had no business demanding more than that of their troops. Also, if a commander can not even perform to standard, they have no business being in the military.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 17 at 2018 9:28 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Oct 2018 09:28:16 -0400

I dont think "Maxing" out the APFT is a true sign of solid leadership, I have had a few commanders who were PT studs and quite a few who were mid road 230 or higher, I woant a commander who is solid, fair and a good planner.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 19 at 2018 4:23 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Oct 2018 16:23:38 -0400

As long as they meet the standard. I was and remain much more concerned about their performance as a leader, not so much about whether they can max the APFT.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2018 9:45 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 28 Oct 2018 09:45:39 -0400

Receiving the maximum score on the APFT for anyone, officer or enlisted - commander or troop, should not be an evaluation point for a leader or a commander. Education, experience and to put it simply intestinal fortitude.

Response by SFC James High made Nov 7 at 2018 3:02 PM

SFC James High — Wed, 07 Nov 2018 15:02:52 -0500

I don't put a lot of stock into the PT test so I don't think anyone who makes a 300 on the test is a better Soldier than one who passes with the minimum! I would prefer for my CDR to have brains instead of brawn! And don't get me started on this new PT Test, to me it is the dumbest idea I have ever heard of. I have 36 years in uniform on my way to 40 and I have had CDRs who had a physical profile, so what? I have been in Aviation for the last 18 yrs and I have seen both kinds of CDRs and what I respect the most is their leadership qualities.

Response by SSG Byron Howard Sr made Nov 7 at 2018 6:53 PM

SSG Byron Howard Sr — Wed, 07 Nov 2018 18:53:43 -0500

One of my tours at HHC VII Corps the Corps commander LTG F. Frank's lost a leg in Vietnam with his prosthetic leg he could our run a whole bunch of us.

Response by Sgt Ronald Paden made Nov 11 at 2018 7:44 PM

Sgt Ronald Paden — Sun, 11 Nov 2018 19:44:38 -0500

Yes sir, they should set an example, and that is part of leadership. But I want a commander that has an overall leadership strategy to bring their unit to it’s best. There are some that struggle to qualify and others it comes easier.

Response by Maj Robert Lang made Dec 5 at 2018 9:11 AM

Maj Robert Lang — Wed, 05 Dec 2018 09:11:20 -0500

Hmmm . . . .

On my LAST PFT, I did multiple EXTRA pull-ups (dead arm hangs, no kip), 80 sit ups, and an 18:20 3-mile run, which put me only behind the young studs doing a perfect PFT. Yet I was called out by the Bn CO for being . . . A POUND . . . over weight.

Oh, he said, I LOOKED FIT, but I should come by before lunch to get on HIS scales.

Yeah, it took nearly 20 years for my waist to grow from 32 to 34, and my blouse to go from 38 to 42. It took six more miles of running and spitting before I was ready to report to the CO for an official weigh-in. There, he determined I was now . . . two pounds . . . BELOW the limit.

It took him another half hour to explain to me the importance of THAT, the weight, standard.

It only took me a moment to know there are no standards for common sense.

Response by SFC Bosun Frusher made Dec 5 at 2018 11:59 PM

SFC Bosun Frusher — Wed, 05 Dec 2018 23:59:25 -0500

The pt test is a load of bull
The caricature of a commander is in how they command
In the twenty years I was in I had commanders that were pt studs who could not command a bowl of noodles

I respect the commander that leads from the front
If they can do the job than that is all athat is required. Used to be an army that that ability was respected. Now we are nothing more than “show” army. Take a look at the Israeli defence force. The look kinda of ragged but I would not want go up against them

Response by MSgt David Haupt made Dec 7 at 2018 10:05 AM

MSgt David Haupt — Fri, 07 Dec 2018 10:05:18 -0500

Commanders performance does affect how the troops look at their commander. Too many times I have the Commander had help with the clock, profile, or even failed a PT and nothing happened to the Commander. Whereas the Troops would feel the rage of the Commander if they failed. Yes the AF does have different standards for PT then the Army but it does have an effect on
all. I remember two very well rounded commanders. One was a great leader and mentor who could not pass or barely passed the PT test. The troops loved the Commander but knew this about the PT Test. He was looked at differently because of the failures or barely passing not because of his leadership. The other would pass the PT with flying colors to include 90% and above testing, but this Commander could not find or lead anyone out of a paper bag with the open end in plain sight. The Commander would burn those who couldn't pass the test and ridicule the ones who passed with 75%. I was pulled into his office many times with troops and myself because of the "poor" PT score. I never failed and would pass with a 75-80% every time.

Response by MSgt Ted C Hall made Dec 15 at 2018 2:31 PM

MSgt Ted C Hall — Sat, 15 Dec 2018 14:31:01 -0500

Passing is good enough, not testing gives a bad example. The idea officers should train to a higher standard is just nomsense. Failing academy students for not meeting higher than general standards (as they used to do) is a waste of talent

Response by SPC Martin Meyer made Dec 22 at 2018 1:10 PM

SPC Martin Meyer — Sat, 22 Dec 2018 13:10:42 -0500

As an infantry MOS I liked to think my officers and NCO's could pass the basic PT test necessary to lead us. What I always found to be more important was were they good leaders or not. I can honestly say that most of my officers and NCO's were very capable leaders although I did run into a couple of West Point Lieutenants' that thought there poop did not stink and I were not good leaders in the least. One told me how much better he was than me and how much he gave up to serve. First day on post drove up in a Porsche. I will say it was only a couple out of many but some people are born leaders and others are not. Fortunately, this one lieutenant came just before I was discharged as I could not have followed him as a infantry leader.

Response by SPC Chris Ison made Jan 6 at 2019 8:02 PM

SPC Chris Ison — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 20:02:49 -0500

The only time it matters is if they fail. Or if it is pencil whipped.

Response by MAJ Robert Apostolos made Jan 9 at 2019 9:56 AM

MAJ Robert Apostolos — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 09:56:36 -0500

Maximum scores are not that important but they need to take and pass the test with their troops. They need to be seen participating and encouraging physical fitness. They need to look as good as the men and women they lead. Lead from the front and lead by example or let someone else take charge.

Response by COL Thomas F. made Jan 15 at 2019 4:00 PM

COL Thomas F. — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 16:00:40 -0500

I guess it depends on which commander you speak. If I am looking at my platoon leader (got it, not a "commander"), I would have a high expectation of physical excellence and keeping up or surpassing the troops he leads. As you move up the command chain, the company commander, yes, but not so much. He should be able to shoot, move and communicate without being out of breath. BC ... BDE Commanders? Well, if they guy is a marathon runner (like a few I've known) or even a bi-athlete (that's shooting and cross country skiing for the uninformed), I'd say more power to them and feel free to do a 5-mile warm up before the test (true statement). I could care less if my Commander can do 300pts but can't fight his way out of a paper bag (or ambush site). My standard - Do they look like a Solider? (not fat). Can they pass the APFT (hopefully to their level of failure - don't stop)? Can they carry all their required gear without heaving, falling over, asking for a cigarette or telling their driver to put it the back of the truck? You think I jest young one? You'd be surprised what I've seen in my career. Don't get me started about the Co Cdr who was too lazy to go to the port-o-potty at night (in the field) and instead peed in a water bottle and had his driver take it to the trash (back in 1991). Ewww. Don't be so critical about peoples physical fitness. Worry about yours, your battle buddy's and your troops. Let the 1SGs and CSMs worry about the Commanders.

Response by SSG Phil Miller made May 14 at 2019 11:24 PM

SSG Phil Miller — Tue, 14 May 2019 23:24:07 -0400

If you wear a blue rope you better beat Joe. Every grunt wants a leader who is a stud.
I made sure my soldiers knew I could outperform them in everything.
I also knew who my best shot was, who my fastest runner was, who my best fighter was.
But we all wanted a commander who could outperform us. Generally, we got that. We always got that from a Sergeant Major though.

Response by SGT Frank Roberson made Oct 17 at 2019 4:10 PM

SGT Frank Roberson — Thu, 17 Oct 2019 16:10:10 -0400

I couldn't have cared less. Their PT didn't happen to matter to me.

Response by SFC William Ewing made Nov 29 at 2019 5:20 AM

SFC William Ewing — Fri, 29 Nov 2019 05:20:54 -0500

Never cared
When I took my first pt test after returning from Vietnam. 1972.
It was announced anyone with over twenty years, step out.
Which got the WWII guys oyt.
Than anyone with ten years and over forty out.
They joined the others and got on the truck and left.
The rest of us took the old combat or test Army.
Asked later where the others went and why they didn't test with us. Some were the old career PFC thirty years a private. No up or out then.
Was told no requirement for people over twenty or over forty years of age and ten years service to take the test. Never checked the regulation.
Was that way in Division and overseas every place until the three event test came along.
I did well on the test into I fell off a cliff and broke ribs and messed up my arm.
Got ten days limited duty until my ribs were no longer no physical therapy.
Had problems with pushups after.
Knees went out about fifteen years later back a knees wore our from years of running in boots wearing the ALICE pack.

As long as you could lead and keep me alive I never cared about a or score

I knew officers who were gun eats who got maximum scores on the test who should never have been commissioned. No feelings for troops.
Others who looked round but could lead and had studied military science I would have followed into hell.

The man who built the Pentagon and led the Manhattan project would have been separated as not looking for or military in today's military.
Just saying or is important but not everything

Response by CPT Brad Wilson made Nov 30 at 2019 4:44 PM

CPT Brad Wilson — Sat, 30 Nov 2019 16:44:09 -0500

I was in the National Guard for my entire career and prior to 9-11 many of my commanders and senior NCO’s passed but didn’t excel. After 9-11 most did 280+ and many maxed it some made it to the extended scale Leaders at all levels also became more knowledgeable on common tasks as well as MOS tasks

Response by SPC Greg Campbell made Nov 30 at 2019 10:20 PM

SPC Greg Campbell — Sat, 30 Nov 2019 22:20:07 -0500

did I pass your test? cool, see ya in the motor pool.

Response by CPT Robert Holden made Nov 30 at 2019 10:37 PM

CPT Robert Holden — Sat, 30 Nov 2019 22:37:48 -0500

While I’ve had commanders that have maxed out PT tests I’ve also had others that were exempt from them do to combat injuries. I rate a commander on his abilities to lead not pass a PT test

Response by SPC Greg Forrester made Nov 30 at 2019 10:41 PM

SPC Greg Forrester — Sat, 30 Nov 2019 22:41:14 -0500

I was in a mortar Infantry platoon. None of us failed. Ever. Think our average was 275. Mine was always over 280.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2019 12:04 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Dec 2019 00:04:24 -0500

Someone that passes with the minimum score in each category makes as much of a statement than a perfect score.

PT is strangely disproportionately weighted more than say a college degree. Both are check the box requirements for officers, but one might have gone to Harvard and the other Fresno State. Yet it’s generally ignored who can write the more influential memo to the top brass if CPT Harvard only knocked out a 210 to CPT Jr College’s 300.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2019 12:21 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Dec 2019 00:21:03 -0500

Couldn't care less, pass is a pass

Response by Sgt Dan Catlin made Dec 1 at 2019 11:41 AM

Sgt Dan Catlin — Sun, 01 Dec 2019 11:41:20 -0500

Our officers had to pass, so we knew they could stay with us. Never worried about their scores, but we did have one Col whose shirt on back read "You are running behind the Old Man!" And quite a few younger Marines were! I always aced the run, but never worried how anyone else finished, as long as my men passed. But I also knew a few Marines who could pick up a TRC-75 and carry it around! I struggled to hold up one side ... we all had our strengths and weaknesses. Trick is instead of keeping score to work together, playing to each others strengths and get the job done! If they can stay with you in the field and make the tough decisions, why would you worry about their "score?"

Response by SP5 James Johnson made Dec 1 at 2019 8:27 PM

SP5 James Johnson — Sun, 01 Dec 2019 20:27:38 -0500

In Nam not a single officer did PT. I had on fat captain who wouldn't have been able to walk a mile let alone run one. In my unit only a few of us ever when out past the wire. But then the EM wee in their early 20's or younger. The officers were much older.
BTW I never respected my company officers.

Response by Sgt Paul Gerhardt made Jan 17 at 2020 10:38 PM

Sgt Paul Gerhardt — Fri, 17 Jan 2020 22:38:24 -0500

It can go either way: If they're highly competent and a PT stud, then good for them. Less than stellar officers should focus more on fundamentals of leadership and less on their PT scores.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Jan 19 at 2020 11:13 AM

SFC Robert Walton — Sun, 19 Jan 2020 11:13:05 -0500

The Commanders performance at PT was none of my concern even when I was the PLT. SGT. as long as he passed, and if he didn't that became something me and the PLT. LDR would work on together to keep PLT stats up.

Response by MAJ Hugh Blanchard made Feb 9 at 2020 9:40 PM

MAJ Hugh Blanchard — Sun, 09 Feb 2020 21:40:46 -0500

Standard at my former units was 270 or higher, but that was on the former 3-event test. The new test looks a bit more challenging.

Response by PO2 Paul Schexnayder made Jul 29 at 2020 3:10 PM

PO2 Paul Schexnayder — Wed, 29 Jul 2020 15:10:15 -0400

I had a Lt. that was smaller, leaner and "healthier" than I was. He was one of the "my body is a temple" types who didn't smoke or drink alcohol or sodas, but while he was in trim shape he couldn't pass the PT test and was continuously having to attend after duty remedial PT classes; yet I smoked and loved my beer and I consistently turned in solid "just above average" scores. Nevertheless, he was always chiding subordinates about what kind of shape we were in and what kind of PT scores we were turning in and how we could and should do better. Nobody in the unit had the least amount of respect for the guy. He wouldn't have needed to be a "PT God" with max scores, just a decent individual with solidly passing scores and he would have had the respect of most of the unit; but between his constantly failing scores and his constant chiding that WE needed to do better, he received no respect.

Response by SPC Brian LaPlante made Jul 30 at 2020 4:59 PM

SPC Brian LaPlante — Thu, 30 Jul 2020 16:59:55 -0400

I think that there is a humanizing and motivating aspect to having someone over you who is not perfect, but tries damn hard to do the best they can. I would always give a little bit more to someone who was pushing me who I knew had been through some shit themselves than someone who just sailed through because I knew they knew what I was going through. In terms of outright failing, maybe in a certain way maybe yes, probably look more down on someone who could not do 50 or whatever sit-ups than if they ended up on weight control or something like that.

Response by SGT Dan Theman made Jul 30 at 2020 5:09 PM

SGT Dan Theman — Thu, 30 Jul 2020 17:09:48 -0400

I never seen one ace a test. I never seen one fail a test either. That said I’ve seen them run as hard, push as hard, pull as hard as us and for me that gave me more respect for them.
Additionally I thought more about their ability to confidently lead and take into consideration other options available.
I think this is what made us successful and exceed farther then most. By adopting that strategy and leadership properties I know that’s why my squad passed their 72 hour ARTEP on the first go and we were given the week off by the Brigade Commander.
Just sayen

Response by PFC Joseph Cuschieri made Jul 30 at 2020 7:20 PM

PFC Joseph Cuschieri — Thu, 30 Jul 2020 19:20:22 -0400

In 1992, Ft Irwin, Cali, all my NCOs and officers above E7 and above Captain we're fat as hell. They signed off on each other's pt scores and got away with it.

Response by Sgt John Ball made Jul 30 at 2020 7:47 PM

Sgt John Ball — Thu, 30 Jul 2020 19:47:04 -0400

As a Marine, I always thought they should have to meet their maximum standard.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2020 2:47 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 31 Jul 2020 02:47:26 -0400

If he’s a fart ass and can’t pass a pt test he doesn’t need a company command

Response by SPC James Kummer made Jul 31 at 2020 5:45 AM

SPC James Kummer — Fri, 31 Jul 2020 05:45:08 -0400

I think it depends on how big of a unit that you are talking about. In basic training, my company commander was a stud with the rank of Captain. Beyond basic, I was more impressed by how my commanding officers acted and spoke, not how far they could run or how many push ups they could do.

Response by CAPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2020 1:33 PM

CAPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Aug 2020 13:33:38 -0400

As a leader, exceed the max. It's our job to set the example.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2020 11:44 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 22 Sep 2020 23:44:24 -0400

Most of my commanders were studs..#ranger, airborne, or some kind of athlete in college #

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Nov 1 at 2020 7:42 PM

Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen — Sun, 01 Nov 2020 19:42:43 -0500

Hey its pass or fail right!

Response by SSG Samuel Kermon made Nov 1 at 2020 9:22 PM

SSG Samuel Kermon — Sun, 01 Nov 2020 21:22:54 -0500

I understand the question but suspect there is more of the story here. Personally, NO, a commander that can max the physical fitness test is not the measure of him/her as a leader. I have seen both types, worked for both types, and I have found more respect for the ones who were out there trying their best but not maxing it.

Response by MAJ Dale E. Wilson, Ph.D. made Nov 2 at 2020 4:16 AM

MAJ Dale E. Wilson, Ph.D. — Mon, 02 Nov 2020 04:16:03 -0500

As a platoon leader and company commander I told my officers and NCOs that if they wanted a max score for fitness on their efficiency reports they would have to score at least 270 of 300. I purposely kept my score slightly less than 300 and offered a 3-day pass to any E-4 or below who beat me on the APFT.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Nov 2 at 2020 5:59 AM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Mon, 02 Nov 2020 05:59:50 -0500

None of the commanders that I had, had any problem passing the APFT, one was a West Point grad CPT Private RallyPoint Member

Response by SGT Frank Roberson made Nov 19 at 2020 12:31 PM

SGT Frank Roberson — Thu, 19 Nov 2020 12:31:49 -0500

I had a female Commander who could run you into the ground, but she couldn't do 1 pushup to save her life. It never bothered me because she knew who to rely on in Battle. She was a pretty good leader.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2021 10:43 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 Jan 2021 22:43:23 -0500

The sad thing is I’m about to be 40 and score in the top 5% every APFT.
But ultimately it’s about giving your best. You should give your best at everything you do. Too many SMs these day Officers and Enlisted have no push in themselves these days and it’s really sad when you see those in there early 20’s fail a Physical Fitness Test!

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Aug 26 at 2021 6:35 PM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Thu, 26 Aug 2021 18:35:58 -0400

Who would ever know? our 1St Sgt couldn’t walk 3 miles in a day if he had too, but he had more salad than any man I’ve ever seen, no doubt fairly earned in Nam, he didn’t need to pass a PT test. I saw the LT Col only once, if he left his office it was a secret, but I got chewed out for not jumping at Bragg, but I hated jumping with Army it was always a Clusterfuck, we were free to choose when we wanted to jump.