How far in advance can active duty service members from all branches start training or looking for employment?

COL Mikel J. Burroughs — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 16:47:50 -0500

How far in advance can active duty service members from all branches start training or looking for employment?

It is 90 Days? Is it 30 days? What is the transition period allowed an active service member today?

What do the regulations allow for in the various service branches for transitioning service members either leaving the service voluntarily at the end of their enlistment, being separated due to force reductions, medically being released from active service, or a planned retirement?

I'm curious to find out if we can help service members earlier in the transition process?

Who can be contacted within the various service branches to work with transition officials for new veterans coming out into the civilian world? Does each branch have a group or section handling this?

Can you provide contact numbers and names?

Response by COL Jon Thompson made Jan 9 at 2016 5:25 PM

COL Jon Thompson — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 17:25:49 -0500

I will argue that SM need to start thinking about it right away. In 1995, I was passed over for promotion to Major and faced with trying to figure out what I was going to do next. I stretched out my remaining time as long as I could but still left active duty without a job. I never envisioned anything else so I did not have a backup plan. So I say that people should at least have an idea of what they want to do. It may be somewhat easier for officers than a junior enlisted but they should not wait until they know they are leaving. I would say that continued civilian education is also part of this. In terms of actual timelines, the Army has ACAP to help out transitioning Soldiers. Each post should have an ACAP office. Below is the Army site for ACAP and that should be a good starting reference for one who knows they are leaving. I do think that a SM should be serious about it in their last year and they need to find the right balance between their duties and their responsibilities to themselves.
https://www.acap.army.mil/default.aspx

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jan 9 at 2016 6:38 PM

PO1 John Miller — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 18:38:29 -0500

I started looking for work about 3 weeks before going on terminal leave. I got lucky and found a job almost right away (just a few weeks later while on terminal leave) and started working while I was still technically on the Navy's books.

Response by MSgt Lionel (Leo) Rondeau made Jan 9 at 2016 7:27 PM

MSgt Lionel (Leo) Rondeau — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 19:27:07 -0500

I was set to retire in September of 2013 and start my terminal leave in early June 2013. To begin planning for it, I took my first Transition Assistance Program course in January of 2012 and then I took it again as a refresher in February of 2013. I had started working on my resume in January of '13 and started applying to jobs in February after I finished TAP class. I was offered position in the beginning of May with a start date in July and was able to double dip for a few months.

I always advocated early preparation for those considering transition to civvies. The earlier they can get their certifications, additional training using TA or the GI Bill, the better.

Response by GySgt Carl Rumbolo made Jan 9 at 2016 7:35 PM

GySgt Carl Rumbolo — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 19:35:44 -0500

So ...that is going to depend on yourself and situation in many ways. Most important is HAVE A PLAN - and not something you 'sorta keep in your head' - write it down, revise it as things change, but have a concrete plan with targets and goals.

My own personal approach (this was 1996 so somethings change - for one online job searches wasn't exactly a big thing then). When I was a year out from my 20, I made it clear to my unit commander and OIC that I intended to retire - I also sent a letter to the promotion board asking I not be considered for selection.

I did a lot of background research the first half of that year, also went out and picked up couple of additional IT certifications that polished my resume. Write a resume, get folks to critique, and re-write it, polish it.

At the six month mark, I started attending job fairs, mostly to link up with professional recruiters - aka 'head hunters' . Not the kind you pay to find you a job, but one who gets paid by a company when he finds them talent.

I passed out about a 100 resumes, read up on companies. I actively cultivated a relationship with a head-hunter that led me to 3 interviews - I got offers of employment from all 3 - one actually on the spot (which is the one I took).

I made a couple of mistakes - I found out later I could have negotiated a better package - some gap health coverage, since the company plan didn't cover a few things until you worked there 6 months. , but over all it went pretty smooth.

I kept in touch with that headhunter as well - referred a few people to him, things like that. He called me about 20 months after being in the civilian sector- a better job - which led to another job...

Bottom line, you have to work at it. I got fortunate I will admit that, I had a lot IT skills, retiring 1996 at a time when if you could spell Information Technology, you'd get a job.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Jan 9 at 2016 8:18 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 20:18:01 -0500

Enlisted Members may be released through a 4187 under the attached MILPER Message up to 6 months early from ETS. This is contingent on a letter from an employer with a bona fide job offer: http://www.ssi.army.mil/!CareerAdvisor/Messages/Milper%20Message%2015-019%20Enlisted%20Voluntary%20Early%20Seperations%20Program.pdf

Officers MAY be able to start work on transition leave. They will need an ethics brief and a visit to JAG if it is a government contractor.

Transition assistance is telling people 6 months out for applying to jobs in earnest. Up to 12 for federal jobs.

I am going through SFL TAP right now. There are tons of info and websites. Tools and calculators. VA stuff, DoL stuff, commercial stuff. What can be done to help? Realistically help draft resumes and convert military experiences to civilianese. Explain to civilian employers what military qualifications, experience, and leadership really means.....And offer someone a no-shit job for a realistic wage.

Tap into the Soldier for Life Transition Assistance Program (SFL-TAP) at HQDA or at the nearest installation. Especially if you have networked access to no kidding J.O.B.S. https://www.facebook.com/FortCarsonSFLTAP/

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Jan 9 at 2016 9:21 PM

LTC Stephen F. — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 21:21:56 -0500

In 1992 was passed over to promotion to Major for the second time COL Mikel J. Burroughs. The Army was going through a RIF and the personnel system was trying to reduce the officer corps with as many volunteers as possible an they were offering various buyout plans - a lump sump and and an annuity.
I was a relatively new believer in Christ at the time; but, I was convinced that God did not want me to quit. The previous summer I had interviewed with banking executives in Georgia and I had sent resume's to several other businesses. I did not quit and was forced out of the active component. The next month I accepted a position with a not-for-profit FFRDC company where I was employed for 20 years. I also accepted a commission in the USAR where to my chagrin I was promoted to major based on time in service and grade. By the grace of God I was promoted to LTC just after 2000 after being passed over twice. This allowed me to serve this nation on active duty again soon after 9/11 2001 when I volunteered while my mobilization orders were being processed.
I concur with the comments of COL Jon Thompson.
It is never to early to think about your post-service career. You need to pay attention to the current regulations about what is authorized so that you do not run afoul of current law or regulation; but, putting serious thought into your post-service career and having frank discussions with family and friends is a good idea. Your family and friends may well have a good idea of what you strengths are and if they are true friends they will tell you your strengths and weaknesses.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2016 10:59 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Jan 2016 10:59:48 -0500

Under current Congressional guidelines, ACAP has to start 1 year out. They mandate classes on budgeting, resumes, and job hunting. The counselors will give tue SM a whole slew of information in the job hunt, including an email list that sends you job openings on bases. If someone needs to get out early for school or employment they can submit a 4187. For school the can get out 90 days early, for employment it is 180 days earlier than their original ETS date.

Response by GySgt William Hardy made Jan 12 at 2016 4:56 PM

GySgt William Hardy — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 16:56:14 -0500

After I completed teletype school at MCRD San Diego, I was downtown at the Western Union office where I was told by the manager that when my time was up, he would hire me and pay me approximately 3 times more than the average wage at that time. During the next 3 and half years I worked hard and became very good at my job. I ended up reenlisting for 6 more years. Little did I know at the time, but all those skills were useless. I was a certified teletype operator and communication center manager. I had also been trained as a key punch operator and IBM 360 operator. Little did I know that technology would be changing so fast that by the time I left military service, most of what I had learned was obsolete. When I attended college, I started out in Business Management, but switched to Social Sciences at the counseling of several college professors who said they saw my teaching talents when I tutored other students. When I finally got around to joining the reserve side, my previous MOS was longer available. Fortunately, my college education help, and I qualified for retraining into Military Intelligence.

I guess my point is that sometimes, no matter how hard you try to plan your future, things come up and drive you down a different path.

I ended up retiring from teaching after 30 years in the classroom and even taught a few college classes along the way. I retired from the military with 13 active years and 13 reserve years with a tour in Vietnam and in Iraq. Most of what has happened was because things changed and I sort of fell into a better place. There were good people along the way who advised me, but I never would have guessed where I ended up in life.

Response by CW2 Stacy Sheard made Jan 19 at 2016 1:12 PM

CW2 Stacy Sheard — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 13:12:26 -0500

In the Aviation Industry - I would say you should begin networking in the civil aviation industry a few years before you're ready to transition... It takes time to build good relationships.
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/mil2civ-transition-helicopter-pilots-technicians-stacy-sheard?trk=prof-post

Response by MAJ Rene De La Rosa made Jul 23 at 2016 11:15 AM

MAJ Rene De La Rosa — Sat, 23 Jul 2016 11:15:24 -0400

ACAP can be started two years before retirement. That being said, if one desires a government job, then one has to put the application in 6-8 months beforehand. If in the civilian world, a 30-60 day advance time would be adequate.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2016 11:25 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 23 Jul 2016 11:25:34 -0400

I think that there needs to be a parallel civilian career prep tool that members can use while they are serving. Military members need a career path guidance platform that helps them highlight their leadership, training, knowledge, skills and abilities. They should know educational and skills requirements of desired civilian jobs.

Members should always be networking and building relationships with perspective employers. Transitioning is a daunting task and a culture shock for many members...be proactive, informed and prepared!

Response by MAJ Raúl Rovira made Jul 25 at 2016 12:02 AM

MAJ Raúl Rovira — Mon, 25 Jul 2016 00:02:32 -0400

Ideally we should start as soon as you can. There is the official timelines through ACAP and what the Army tells us. I prefer not to hold myself hostage to a short timeline.
Reality is that the more time we have we can better network, refine the resume, establish a digital presence through LinkedIn and other social media, meet employer, attend conferences and try out different things.
The SFL center at Fort Richardson has a strong program with partnering with employers from downtown Anchorage. SFL center provides an employer panel at the end of every TAP class.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Jul 25 at 2016 10:05 AM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Mon, 25 Jul 2016 10:05:12 -0400

If their going into a profession that is the same as their MOS,their good to go. If something else, I'd say at least 90 days.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 25 at 2016 9:32 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Jul 2016 21:32:20 -0400

I just found out from my brother (he's in the "Army for life" program) that he was allowed to begin transitioning for retirement 2 years prior to separation.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 26 at 2016 8:59 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 Jul 2016 20:59:23 -0400

Great question!

Response by Cpl Michael Crowley made Jul 27 at 2016 1:07 PM

Cpl Michael Crowley — Wed, 27 Jul 2016 13:07:30 -0400

SEPS/TAPS took me 2 weeks after I learned that my re-enlistment was denied during the draw down in 2011. I submitted my desire to re-enlist 365 days before my EAS and got denied 14 days prior to my last day.

I discharged honorably but I was ill-prepared for the civilian concepts of pay rates, value, validation, and unemployment. I also discharged with no money nor assistance moving back to my home state.

The few interviews that I've been called into either ask, "Why are you changing fields of occupation?" or say, "We can't afford what you are worth" (despite my offer of accepting the salary of the position and a 2-3 year commitment with their organization).

I have only a minimal clue as to my supposed "worth" and I only recently (after 5 years of applying to everything IT) found out that I am an experienced "Network Engineer". School is difficult because the VA keeps withholding BAH despite my good standing with them, I'm not credibly qualified for any position over $10/hr, I have a null credit score because I was careful not to use credit during my enlistment, and my wife's illness/death during and after my final year of active duty wiped out my remaining funds.

I know what my difficulties are, I know that they are my responsibility, and I'm quickly running out of viable solutions. Some of us simply fall off of the learning curve and there's nothing that Big Brother can do about it. In short: Survival of the fittest.

Response by LTC Jesse Edwards made Jul 27 at 2016 10:01 PM

LTC Jesse Edwards — Wed, 27 Jul 2016 22:01:49 -0400

I don't think there's anything that prohibits an active duty individual from looking for future employment. How one uses their leave and time off is up to them. The more serious the position one is looking for, the earlier they need to start or the more lucky they need to be to have a great network already in place in the civilian sector.

Response by SA Jim Arnold made Jul 29 at 2016 8:47 PM

SA Jim Arnold — Fri, 29 Jul 2016 20:47:11 -0400

With today's economy and slim job market, I feel about 3-6 months would be rather appropriate.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2016 8:08 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 31 Jul 2016 20:08:34 -0400

6 months out was the standard when I was in the contracting world. We would not look at any resumes if the ETS date was further out than that.

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2016 9:02 PM

LCpl Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 21:02:17 -0400

The day you Enlist . Most city job have a 4 year list . Police ,Fireman . They will hold your spot till your are discharge . Keep track of the list and inform them , you are Military.

Response by TSgt George Rodriguez made Oct 22 at 2016 10:34 AM

TSgt George Rodriguez — Sat, 22 Oct 2016 10:34:26 -0400

Back in 86 when I retired I was already employed part time as a Flight Paramedic at Children's Hospital. So going full time was as simple as asking. After 4 years it being a state hospital I was laid off due to a change in the Governor cutting back the payroll. Not a big problem as I walked across the street to the VA Hospital and went to work as pulmonary lab tech. Transitioning from a military service career depends on the type of work experience you learn and can apply to any position on the civilian market that happens to be available in the area. If non available then moving is most likely the only alternative.

Response by SSG Shavonde Chase made Nov 18 at 2016 10:13 PM

SSG Shavonde Chase — Fri, 18 Nov 2016 22:13:01 -0500

The SFL-TAP is a great resource to help with transition:

https://www.sfl-tap.army.mil/

Response by SFC George Smith made Nov 19 at 2016 4:21 AM

SFC George Smith — Sat, 19 Nov 2016 04:21:47 -0500

4-6 months is not unheard of...

Response by PO1 Gery Bastiani made Nov 19 at 2016 11:05 PM

PO1 Gery Bastiani — Sat, 19 Nov 2016 23:05:32 -0500

I started sending resumes out 6 months before my retirement date

Response by SGT Michael Schmiesing made Mar 21 at 2018 9:27 PM

SGT Michael Schmiesing — Wed, 21 Mar 2018 21:27:56 -0400

From the first day in your first permanent duty assignment. Because you never know how it will go. So getting college classes and professional guidance from the learning center should be your #1 priority. It will be a great start to your advancisng in the ranks especially when you are going to promotion to leadership roles as sergeants.