How good does an MSM (Meritorious Service Medal) look for an E-4 with 3 years of service with no airborne, air assault etc.?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Jun 2020 04:28:33 -0400

I’m PCSing to Fort Campbell and was wondering if it looks good with out having really anything else besides a few AAMs

Response by SGT Robert Pryor made Jun 5 at 2020 4:31 AM

SGT Robert Pryor — Fri, 05 Jun 2020 04:31:55 -0400

Obviously most awards and decorations are going to enhance your jacket, and in turn your promotion potential.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2020 4:41 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Jun 2020 04:41:56 -0400

I’m confused by the wording of your question. You state that you only have “a few AAMs”, but are inquiring about how an MSM looks. Care to elaborate a bit?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2020 4:43 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Jun 2020 04:43:51 -0400

It looks like 25 promotion points. Other than that, it's not really worth anything other than a slightly surprised look on someone's face when you're at a Christmas party or ASU inspection and they see an E-4 with an MSM. It's uncommon but not unheard of.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jun 5 at 2020 7:11 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Fri, 05 Jun 2020 07:11:49 -0400

I have never seen anyone below E6 earn an MSM, for an E4 a couple of AAMs is absolutely normal, more than one is good.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2020 8:03 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Jun 2020 08:03:32 -0400

Is this a humble brag? I would say earning an MSM as a Junior Enlisted Solider is excellent and it maybe the last one you earn until you make SSG/SFC. Very rare for a Junior Enlisted to be awarded the MSM as a PCS award. Have you already been awarded the MSM or has your supervisor put you in for one and you’re assuming it will be approved by the Divison Commander? Either way, congratulations are in order. A very rare thing indeed, Congratulations.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Jun 5 at 2020 8:32 AM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Fri, 05 Jun 2020 08:32:37 -0400

I wouldn’t worry about it. I’m sure you’ll get some looks and the occasional question but just focus on being good at your job. An MSM is gonna draw suspicion on anyone under E7 just because it’s such a high award. Don’t take it personal and just focus on adding to your resume and becoming better. Focusing on what people think will just get in your head

Response by 1SG John Highfill made Jun 5 at 2020 8:40 AM

1SG John Highfill — Fri, 05 Jun 2020 08:40:13 -0400

That’s a pretty big award it means you are an outstanding Soldierb

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2020 9:38 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Jun 2020 09:38:41 -0400

Doesn't matter that you have an MSM but not AA or AB. You'll get some odd looks. May get a question or two. Mainly because you're a SPC with an MSM on your chest.

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Jun 5 at 2020 9:41 AM

1SG Dennis Hicks — Fri, 05 Jun 2020 09:41:50 -0400

If your COC actually puts a recommendation in for an MSM for a SPC unless the writer puts enough supporting comments in it its almost guaranteed to be downgraded. I would think that the awards board would most likely downgrade it to an ARCOm which would still be above average for a SPC. I was in for 35 years and I was recommended for an MSM as a SFC and have 3 now. I have seen multiple boards and unless the write up is great they usually get downgraded. Before I retired I was put in for an LOM which I knew for sure I would never get so it is what it is.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Jun 5 at 2020 9:54 AM

CAPT Kevin B. — Fri, 05 Jun 2020 09:54:28 -0400

Most are keying in on the rarity of this award to a junior SM. I had a past conversation with my friend, CAPT Leonard LeSchack, who as a very junior LT (O3), wore a LOM. He's buried in Arlington right now, but you can look up the reason by Googling Operation Coldfeet. He had some difficulties as he couldn't talk about it as it was compartmentalized TS at the time. Every now and then a more senior officer would berate him for being undeserving or outright accuse him of what we call stolen valor today. The words then were more colorful. As it turned out, Lenny lived multiple lifetimes in his time with most of his CIA affiliation work still classified.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Jun 5 at 2020 12:26 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Fri, 05 Jun 2020 12:26:16 -0400

Not sure why you are focused on how it “looks”. Wear it with pride

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Jun 5 at 2020 1:26 PM

SGT Ben Keen — Fri, 05 Jun 2020 13:26:29 -0400

Don't worry you'll have your chance to earn your wings at Campbell! Lol. As far as an award l, it really doesn't matter. Just go there and show them you are squared away and ready to do more!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2020 3:47 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Jun 2020 15:47:51 -0400

Dude. You saved a persons life! I wouldn’t care what others thought about. I doubt most individuals would have done what you did.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2020 9:10 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Jun 2020 21:10:51 -0400

When you get to Fort Campbell you will be going to Air Assault School. You should be able to get some but a SPC isn't expected to have much.

Response by MSG James Devereaux made Jun 6 at 2020 1:34 PM

MSG James Devereaux — Sat, 06 Jun 2020 13:34:15 -0400

It won’t hurt but will provide a good deal of promotion points. I’ve known many good soldiers not get the award because they weren’t high enough in rank, in the opinion of the OIC and not the recommender. The only thing that will matter at FTCKY will be that you are lacking your AASLT Wings. NOTHING else matters in regards to what’s on your shirt.

Response by Lt Col Brett Meyer made Jun 6 at 2020 5:21 PM

Lt Col Brett Meyer — Sat, 06 Jun 2020 17:21:20 -0400

Don’t be one of those guys that chases awards.

Response by 1SG Rick Seekman made Jun 8 at 2020 10:15 PM

1SG Rick Seekman — Mon, 08 Jun 2020 22:15:16 -0400

An E-4 with 3 years active coupled with an MSN to boot? I would drug test the entire chain of command that blessed off on this..

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2020 7:05 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Jun 2020 07:05:23 -0400

Asking this questions says a lot about what currently matters to you.

Awards do not means your successful, good at your job, a good manager or a leader. It means you happen to be doing the right thing when someone was watching.

Prove it wasn't a fluke by being humble and reliable when it matters most.

And for what ever the reason you received it, well done.

Response by SGT Hugh Bowman made Jun 28 at 2020 7:05 AM

SGT Hugh Bowman — Sun, 28 Jun 2020 07:05:52 -0400

I personally would be curious of the condition of how one could get that award with so little time in service

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 16 at 2020 10:29 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 16 Jul 2020 22:29:29 -0400

Awards dont necessary show the kind of soldier the wearer is. You can be an excellent soldier with a bad supervisor that never submit an award for you or be brown nosing-good for nothing dude and have AAM’s , ARCOMS and MSM’s in your chest.... For me, your performance will speak. ARMY STRONG

Response by CW3 Joseph Lawrence made Jul 20 at 2020 11:01 AM

CW3 Joseph Lawrence — Mon, 20 Jul 2020 11:01:11 -0400

All too often, awards are given for just plain being there. It is encouraging to see an E4 getting an MSM and obviously because of your rank, you earned that award. I stood in formation once while an officer got an MSM and one of my men tapped me on the shoulder and said, "he is getting an award for what you did" That comment was worth more than an award. It is knowing that what you did was over and above of what was expected of you. Keep up the good work and you will continue to excel both in character and rank.

Response by SGT Chester Beedle made Jul 21 at 2020 12:24 AM

SGT Chester Beedle — Tue, 21 Jul 2020 00:24:12 -0400

Air Assault is 11 pretty easy days if you have any physical and mental ability at all. The MSM is harder to get than AASLT. Even the NG has an air assault course.
You saved a person's life. That's kind of worth something to most people. Just don't be a slacker dirtbag who had one good moment!

Response by SFC Rapfeal Mayfield made Jul 21 at 2020 8:12 PM

SFC Rapfeal Mayfield — Tue, 21 Jul 2020 20:12:47 -0400

First good job on earning an MSM...secondly dont go into a new unit expecting anything based on a previously earned award. The leadership there will judge you based on your performance there so whatever you did to earn an MSM keep doing it and you will be ok.

Response by SGT Martin Walsh made Jul 22 at 2020 1:39 AM

SGT Martin Walsh — Wed, 22 Jul 2020 01:39:13 -0400

haha well it sounds like you knew the right people because the broken fucking piece of shit that is the US Army's awards system usually doesn't like to let people less than an E6P get it. Awards are worthless at this point, a bronze star is a joke at this rate. oh look you're an E7 that sat in his room an entire deployment while assigned to S1....Bronze star for you hero

Response by LTC David Howard made Jul 23 at 2020 9:06 AM

LTC David Howard — Thu, 23 Jul 2020 09:06:30 -0400

When I first entered active service, I looked at the rows of ribbons on others uniforms and was impressed. The longer I served the less I was impressed. Often the determining factor in the giving or not giving of a service award had little to do with the actual quality of service performed and everything to do with the writing skill of the person recommending the award and their motivation for doing so. Even combat awards were less meaningful than they are intended to be. My unit in Vietnam submitted a particular individual for the Medal of Honor for the amazingly heroic action this soldier performed, saving lives at great risk to his own. The recommendation left Division downgraded to a Silver Star, not based upon the action itself, but because the Division had already reached its "quota" of such nominations for that quarter. Lower medals were given out like candy bars to almost anyone and everyone as a weak effort at building morale. I recommend that every soldier perform at his or her highest level of quality and dedication and take self satisfaction in knowing that he or she had done their best, and not give much thought to awards and ribbons for themselves or others.

Response by CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana made Jul 24 at 2020 7:14 AM

CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana — Fri, 24 Jul 2020 07:14:59 -0400

Be proud of yourself and your achievements, but never let the adrenaline rush up into your head; stay grounded and continue to aim high, achieve success and enjoy your earnings, and advancements. Be Proud, Remain Transparent, Enjoy the Rewards and Stay Grounded Always.

Response by Maj Chris Williams made Jul 24 at 2020 9:46 AM

Maj Chris Williams — Fri, 24 Jul 2020 09:46:51 -0400

Congratulations...I'm sure the person, whose life you saved, probably thinks the MSM looks good on you. Well done!

Response by SP6 Yanrique Joseph made Jul 24 at 2020 4:19 PM

SP6 Yanrique Joseph — Fri, 24 Jul 2020 16:19:54 -0400

If you earned an MSM would you like it questioned? Why do we judge individuals? The individual earned it on merit....we don't know what he did, as a matter of fact the narrative would explain what he did... It's time to stop this thing. Are you jealous you didn't earn one?

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Jul 26 at 2020 7:26 PM

Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen — Sun, 26 Jul 2020 19:26:27 -0400

You did your tour and didn't screw up! I used to have discussions with the Marines in my office and MSMs always came up as examples of medals that were meaningless. I disagreed, always saying that your time, effort and superior performance deserve an end of tour award and for most services that is the MSM.

Response by CPO Albert Kennison made Jul 26 at 2020 8:10 PM

CPO Albert Kennison — Sun, 26 Jul 2020 20:10:36 -0400

I tell you one thing about ribbons and medals; when you either get out or retire, they don't mean crap. The only other time anyone will see them is when you are laying in a casket.

Response by SSG Roland Starr made Jul 26 at 2020 9:38 PM

SSG Roland Starr — Sun, 26 Jul 2020 21:38:22 -0400

the MSM is the token medal given to all who PCS. in most cases it is regardless of job performance at previous post.

Response by SSG Alfred Woods made Jul 27 at 2020 9:36 AM

SSG Alfred Woods — Mon, 27 Jul 2020 09:36:47 -0400

I fail to see why having airborne or air assault etc., would have anything to do with the soldier having an MSM. What about the training and or expertise the soldier may have obtained prior to his\her service, which allowed for him\her to excel or stand out in the performance of his\her duties. This would seem to be similar to a E-2 or E-3, returning from a 12 month tour of combat and be awarded an MSM. As for how good it may look, a leader may want to hear from the soldier him\herself, about the achievement of the medal. Keep in mind, when such medals are awarded, the actions which led up to the award, is documented along with statements from those who may have knowledge, maybe part of the unit and soldiers records.

Response by 1SG Brian Adams made Jul 27 at 2020 12:57 PM

1SG Brian Adams — Mon, 27 Jul 2020 12:57:04 -0400

As a Spec4, a few AAM's is very good. The MSM is an award normally given to an E-6 and above for something exceptional. Having said that, I did not say a Spec4 could not earn one. I would not worry how you look in your class A with ribbons. If you did have the MSM medal as an E-4 this would reflect very positively. However, having "just a few" AAMs is nothing to sneeze at...hoooah!

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jul 27 at 2020 3:40 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Mon, 27 Jul 2020 15:40:22 -0400

Are you saying you received an MSM for a tour award? If you earned one, it does not matter what else you have, it is rather lofty and carry’s its own weight. You must be one impressive young Soldier.

Response by SGT Dustin Gray made Aug 4 at 2020 1:30 PM

SGT Dustin Gray — Tue, 04 Aug 2020 13:30:44 -0400

Congratulations, and job well done.

An award simply tells about your past actions and what you've done. You should be the definition of the award, and do not let it define you. Your past actions are a gauge by which your future potential is measured. Continue being the Soldier and person that led you to perform those actions. You are proof that doing the right thing, and even going above and beyond, does not go unrewarded. Help others to also be that proof as well.

I'll tell you exactly as I told my Soldiers: At ALL times strive to be the very best in your field, no matter what. Do not waiver in this endeavor for it will reflect both in your professional and personal lives. Nobody wants mediocre, they always want the best. Only by continuously striving to be the best will you continue to learn and grow even when you are considered to be an expert.

Response by MSgt Allen Chandler made Aug 8 at 2020 7:38 PM

MSgt Allen Chandler — Sat, 08 Aug 2020 19:38:12 -0400

I have seen E-1s do you things that got them some amazing awards that they just they deserved. I have seen generals with a chest full of ribbons let me nothing. If you earned it I salute you and see where it proudly

Response by SGT Ronald Audas made Aug 16 at 2020 3:38 PM

SGT Ronald Audas — Sun, 16 Aug 2020 15:38:42 -0400

I never quite understood medals and citations.I noticed many were given without much forethought.Other than promotions,I didn't see any awards in my company in Korea...And a lot of soldiers earned them.I contribute this to lazy officers and sgts in a leadership position. The MSM given to an E-4 sounds like a buddy deal to me.I'm happy for the gentleman If he's comfortable displaying it.

Response by MSgt Steven Smigelski made Aug 16 at 2020 6:01 PM

MSgt Steven Smigelski — Sun, 16 Aug 2020 18:01:07 -0400

When I retired after 35 years I was awarded an MSM for the work I had done standing up an electronic warfare section. Good for you, that MSM is going to help you in your career!

Response by SSG Russell Busicchia made Aug 17 at 2020 2:49 PM

SSG Russell Busicchia — Mon, 17 Aug 2020 14:49:16 -0400

You earned it, wear it with pride. Awards are only good for your career, civilians don't really care. The CSM at SOUTHCOM was impressed when he saw my MSM, I was a SSG. I imagine that he would be overwhelmed if he saw yours. These awards are not easy to get, be proud of your achievement.

Response by CPT William Jones made Aug 18 at 2020 12:25 AM

CPT William Jones — Tue, 18 Aug 2020 00:25:54 -0400

The reason for the award is in the award recommendation. If others felt it was deserved, wear it with pride.

Response by PO2 Steven Michaeli made Aug 19 at 2020 5:06 AM

PO2 Steven Michaeli — Wed, 19 Aug 2020 05:06:27 -0400

I'm a little jealous; 26 years, 20 ribbons and only 6 promotion points.

Response by SPC Edward T Harris made Aug 19 at 2020 5:38 AM

SPC Edward T Harris — Wed, 19 Aug 2020 05:38:34 -0400

I have but one medal and that one medal means everything to me, NDSM. I also believe your performance while you are doing your job says a lot about you as a person. I was proud to do my job while serving my country. I personally wanted to earn that medal each and every day I served.

Response by SGT Robert Swigart made Aug 19 at 2020 12:00 PM

SGT Robert Swigart — Wed, 19 Aug 2020 12:00:51 -0400

I would say that, unfortunately, it would call into question the relationship the E-4 has with the recommending supervisor...even more unfortunate would it be if the recommender is of the opposite sex. I'm not saying he or she is or was not worthy of the award, but, over-awarding can be a sign of favoritism and would draw attention.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2020 12:19 PM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Aug 2020 12:19:30 -0400

The MSM typically goes to Senior Enlisted (I.e. Command Master Chief) and CO/XO. It will probably be questioned. A LOT.

Response by Sgt Steven Smith made Aug 19 at 2020 4:07 PM

Sgt Steven Smith — Wed, 19 Aug 2020 16:07:13 -0400

More than half the medals you see werend earned off kneepad duty

Response by SSgt Mitchell Zachs made Aug 21 at 2020 2:35 AM

SSgt Mitchell Zachs — Fri, 21 Aug 2020 02:35:58 -0400

Very good and if I recall it is worth 5 points towards getting promoted in the AF

Response by SSgt Mitchell Zachs made Aug 21 at 2020 2:38 AM

SSgt Mitchell Zachs — Fri, 21 Aug 2020 02:38:56 -0400

If I recall for the AF that medal is worth 5 point towards being promoted. And it looks very nice on your dress blues and that you did something very good and others may ask what that was for

Response by CPT Carolyn Andrews made Aug 23 at 2020 10:13 AM

CPT Carolyn Andrews — Sun, 23 Aug 2020 10:13:31 -0400

Don't be ashamed for what I have.
Be PROUD of all UR metals, U earned them.

Response by CW3 Michael Clifford made Aug 24 at 2020 9:31 AM

CW3 Michael Clifford — Mon, 24 Aug 2020 09:31:02 -0400

I earned my first MSM was as a CID Agent as a SSG. It was awarded to me as a CID Agent assigned to the 7th Infantry Division. It was an impact award for solving a $1.8 million Ponzi scheme involving a senior officer who victimized 68 military victims and 12 civilian victims. It also highlighted my reduction of evidence held in the evidence room by 33%. I was an agent from 1978 to 1994. During that time, every agent I knew (WO and enlisted) earned awards for actual things accomplished and not war game stuff. I actually worked in a career field which awards could have been handed out on a weekly basis to every assigned person. That includes personnel and supply. Yet, I wasn’t awarded anything for effective use of the Heimlich maneuver in saving the life of a two-year-old child nor saving the life of a civilian neighbor, who attempted to end her own life by shooting herself with a .357 revolver. I was expected to do my job, I was trained to do what I did and it worked out in the end.

I was an agent, not for the rewards, but to make a positive impact to the people around me. As a mentor to much younger agents in rank and experience, I was expected to evaluate their performance on a monthly basis and train them in investigative techniques, not taught in the school house due to lack of time.

For 17 years, I was expected to step into the lives of those supported when they often were having the largest crisis in their life. You don’t lean over the emergency room bed of a badly beaten soldier, who is not expected to live, and think what type of award you’ll win if you solve his anticipated murder.

Once you are retired or well after you are discharged, awards and their citations are only good for cocktail party talk, though winning an Army Achievement Medal for solving an attempted homicide in less than 36-hours garners a lot more talk than preparing a motor pool for an IG inspection.

Response by PO1 Woody W. made Aug 27 at 2020 8:27 PM

PO1 Woody W. — Thu, 27 Aug 2020 20:27:16 -0400

In my 20 years of Naval Service, and 2 years as a Drilling Naval Reservist, It was my observation that service, service personnel and medals was a culture and service politics weighed heavy in that culture.
1. Some of the biggest and best A$$ kissers wore some of the best Non combat/non operational ribbons and medals out there, and were always "Jones'n" to achieve more. Can you say "REMF?" Example: Once upon a time... a Navy Achievement Medal <during peacetime> was a pretty big accomplishment. I went to an awards ceremony to receive an AFEM, a Navy CAR, and a 4 Star Joint Task force Ltr of Commendation <it started out as a NCM with V device.... ended up E7a and Officers got the medal/device, and us lowly E6s and below that were actually on the op who took/drew fire and took out the target(s) got the letter. Two females, an E-2 and E-3 were put in for <by a Warrant Officer> and approved for a NAM..... for completing the personal qualification standards <that every sailor was suppose to complete> in the allotted time required. In a nut shell, for doing their assigned jobs on shore duty (most Boot sailors go to a ship). Ok... I'm thinking this may be beyond some A$$ Kissing as this was before "Tailhook"
2. Some leaders, will task you with an assignment that effects all the troops, have your write up the SOP and associated documentation and plans, and then take your work, and make it their own.... as well as the kudos, atta-boys and awards that they generated.
3. Some service people will question any and all awards, especially if they feel one's not worthy. After my NSW tour of duty in Central/South America, I acquired numerous awards and medals related to combat and Joint Service. Transferring to shore duty and then other ships, there was some Junior Officer that wanted to review my service jacket.

Know this..... as a military professional, you wear your resume` which is on your uniform. Know what decorations, personal awards and ribbons you rate, as well as past awards that you may not have. It's your service and your reflection of you in that service. In other words, "Show Your $h!t... unless otherwise directed, period!"
Regards,
River Rat from the Brown Water Navy

Response by PO2 Paul Dempsey made Aug 31 at 2020 12:23 PM

PO2 Paul Dempsey — Mon, 31 Aug 2020 12:23:47 -0400

You earned it. Wear it.

Response by MSgt Robert Cunningham made Sep 26 at 2020 11:13 PM

MSgt Robert Cunningham — Sat, 26 Sep 2020 23:13:39 -0400

ft Campbell pure sand , runways of sand, old buildings.If you want a permanent change of rank, your going to have to excel beyond the normal standards. go to schools , leaderships
you can do it. get more points more medals. Some of the paths to get there will not be likable.
enjoy the adventure , don’t quit. have fun

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Oct 19 at 2020 12:51 AM

SSG Shawn Mcfadden — Mon, 19 Oct 2020 00:51:45 -0400

You DID REAL GOOD!! The lowest ranking person I saw with a MSM, was an E-6.

Response by SFC Joe Walsh made Oct 21 at 2020 8:38 PM

SFC Joe Walsh — Wed, 21 Oct 2020 20:38:37 -0400

If you earned it, then wear it proudly. There are some who will be jealous. Too bad.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Oct 21 at 2020 9:58 PM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Wed, 21 Oct 2020 21:58:35 -0400

Does it look good? Yes. Does it matter what other people think? Not at all.

Just focus on your career and don’t worry about the rubber neckers staring at the candy on your chest

Response by CW5 Mark Smith made Oct 24 at 2020 12:40 PM

CW5 Mark Smith — Sat, 24 Oct 2020 12:40:39 -0400

Sad commentary when awards are tied to rank.

Response by MSG Allan Davis made Oct 26 at 2020 8:19 PM

MSG Allan Davis — Mon, 26 Oct 2020 20:19:18 -0400

No one at Campbell is going to care and you won’t be the only E4 with one there. Way to many high speed low drag dudes on that post.

Response by SMSgt Bob Wilson made Nov 16 at 2020 12:40 AM

SMSgt Bob Wilson — Mon, 16 Nov 2020 00:40:51 -0500

I foresee E5 on the horizon for you and with good evaluations E6.