How important is War College for promotion to Colonel?

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 26 Nov 2016 18:41:11 -0500

I understand it's is a positive discriminator, but does the board perceive it as "must have"? Hopefully, a Sr. Leader with O6 board experience can weigh in.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Nov 26 at 2016 9:56 PM

LTC Stephen C. — Sat, 26 Nov 2016 21:56:28 -0500

LTC Private RallyPoint Member, it's an old story because I've been retired for a long time, but it was told to me by an AWC graduate, that the greatest reason for attrition at the AWC was officers being picked up for O-6!

Response by COL Vincent Stoneking made Nov 26 at 2016 11:42 PM

COL Vincent Stoneking — Sat, 26 Nov 2016 23:42:14 -0500

I believe that being SELECTED FOR AWC is a strong discriminator for selection to O6. MANY of my classmates got pinned in the 2 years (RC/DL version). I don't know that actual completion is seen as must have. There are plenty of COLs without it.

(Personally, I am hopeful that the board sees it as a must have, since I have....)

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Nov 27 at 2016 10:12 AM

CAPT Kevin B. — Sun, 27 Nov 2016 10:12:04 -0500

I sat those boards on the Navy side. I'd presume AWC is a "pedigree bean". We had a number of them on our side too. If it is a "hard bean", then it can make a difference in the first crunch and that means you're deferred to the second/third crunch. If it's a "soft bean", it will more likely make a difference in the third crunch where they're looking for easy reasons to toss. Have/have not ones are easy to pick out given all the performance elements are similar. As to it being a strong discriminator like Vince said, the caveat would be what does the selection group for this course look at to hit the go/no go button? Is that process/crowd different from what would sit a board? I'd say so. There's a lot of difference between the objectives and I'd surmise a lot less is looked at for a schoolhouse slot. So I defer to those who know how hard that bean is. One thing you can look at are the recent board precepts and see if it is mentioned. If not, it's very likely a soft bean.

Response by Col Joseph Lenertz made Nov 27 at 2016 10:23 AM

Col Joseph Lenertz — Sun, 27 Nov 2016 10:23:03 -0500

In the AF, we do first cut by making three piles, and lack of PME is almost always a self-eliminator. The Army may prioritize differently, but when you have an optional task like AWC that some choose to do and some don't, all other things being about equal, I choose the man or woman who decided to grin and bear it and complete the course. It is one of the few objective criteria, other than command, and if you haven't deployed every year since you became eligible for AWC, the board may start right off by putting you in the gray pile.

Response by BG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 27 at 2016 7:02 PM

BG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 27 Nov 2016 19:02:39 -0500

There is an old saying that you need EITHER War College or Battalion Command to make O-6 and I have found this generally to be true. I have had a few friends make it without either, but they were very, very good and almost certainly had top block OERs. I would dare to say that most are promoted to Colonel BEFORE they have completed War College. That was certainly true in my case. So to your answer, no, it is not essential - but it helps!

Response by COL Jim Kohlmann made Nov 28 at 2016 10:45 AM

COL Jim Kohlmann — Mon, 28 Nov 2016 10:45:20 -0500

My experience is now abut dated, but my War College board happened shortly after my O-6 board. The reports that were on top were Battalion Command reports, for a tactical battalion overseas. Both reports were top block. So, I'd say that how you perform is most important for promotion and what your Senior Rater said about you. If you've done AWC, that is an indicator, and it helps, but it isn't necessary. Based on performance, I was selected for O6, National War College, and Brigade Command. And I am not a BZ guy either.

Response by CH (LTC) Robert Leroe made Nov 29 at 2016 9:10 AM

CH (LTC) Robert Leroe — Tue, 29 Nov 2016 09:10:15 -0500

In the Chaplaincy it means you're being groomed for Colonel. A lot of us would have liked to try it via correspondence, but back in my day you needed approval for that.

Response by BG Edward Burley made Nov 29 at 2016 9:28 AM

BG Edward Burley — Tue, 29 Nov 2016 09:28:07 -0500

The promotion board instructions change each year, but the standard is usually you must be at least ENROLLED the War College to be considered competitive for promotion to colonel. The board is instructed as to what the Army needs. Although excellent performance as a LTC will sometimes results in a promotion to Colonel without AWC, the active duty promotion rate to Colonel was only 41% in 2015. That's 41% of the officers who were eligible, a smaller group than the total number of the LTCs. Although it is possible to be promoted without AWC, it is less and less likely.

I would always turn down LTCs who were seeking an MRD extension who had not applied to the War College, explaining to them that when they decided not to apply they had purposefully decided that their career would end at Lieutenant Colonel and 28 years.

Response by 2ndLt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 29 at 2016 9:38 AM

2ndLt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 Nov 2016 09:38:43 -0500

Well there are a decent number of O6s who are students at the War College so I can't imagine boards have it as a "requirement", sir. My grandfather (a professor at Carlisle Barracks) has told me that battalion command or War College will get you promoted to O6.

Response by MAJ Seth Goldstein made Nov 29 at 2016 10:00 AM

MAJ Seth Goldstein — Tue, 29 Nov 2016 10:00:17 -0500

From what I understand it's important but you can attend as an 0-6. What's mandatory is Bn command and CGSOC (whatever they call it now).

Response by COL David Turk made Nov 29 at 2016 10:12 AM

COL David Turk — Tue, 29 Nov 2016 10:12:39 -0500

From the reserve side, it's very highly desirerable, but not required, at least in my case. Due to old regulations around resigning RA commission and picking up reserve commission, I could not complete the correspondence based war college course before my MRD. I applied for the resident course, but to no surprise, didn't get it. Got promoted to O-6 anyway, I assume based on my previous active duty RA tours, my OERs, my active duty tours as a reservists, and my voluntary and involuntary call up tours. I'm sure my specific assignments played a role too.

Response by COL Dave Sims made Nov 29 at 2016 10:50 AM

COL Dave Sims — Tue, 29 Nov 2016 10:50:56 -0500

Just a little history. Before DOPMA if you were a USAR officer you never worried about making 0-6. You worried about making LTC. During Vietnam certain officer years groups were almost twice the size they should be. You could not get an RA commission. USAR officers were essentially second class citizens. After DOPMA the Army started looking at manner of duty performance...and many RA officers fell by the wayside. Year group over-strength was still a problem and selection rates to O-6 were really tough. (32% for my board).
I personally believe that the key to making O-6 is to seek out the difficult assignments - especially command. There are a lot of tempting less demanding jobs....but command, and with it - failure or success is apparent or not. If nothing else you find out a lot about yourself, how you handle stress and how you make decisions. Break the code on these and making O-6 is breeze.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 29 at 2016 11:26 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 Nov 2016 11:26:21 -0500

It is only a 'must have' for promotion to GO. I was mobilized/on active duty for so many years, that I never got a chance to attend War College. So, I took the Navy and Air War College correspondence courses while serving on active duty in joint billets. At the end of nearly 10 years on active duty (most mobilized) and completion of the Navy War College correspondence course, I had more joint duty than most GOs but was ineligible for GO billets because I was never board selected to attend War College. Correspondence War College may meet the requirements for the Navy and Air Force to meet GO requirements but for the Army, these courses equate to ILE/CGSC.

Response by CH (COL) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 29 at 2016 11:33 AM

CH (COL) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 Nov 2016 11:33:16 -0500

If it hasn't been offered you are one in a crowd that has a lot of people that have it. If it has been offered and turned down, you have said that you are retiring and happy where you are. Experience CAN overcome the lack of it depending on the branch, but you will only be selected before those that do not have it.

Response by COL D Zimmer made Nov 29 at 2016 1:44 PM

COL D Zimmer — Tue, 29 Nov 2016 13:44:20 -0500

War College is not a discriminator for promotion to O-6, but that takes explanation. One can go to a 'War College' at the 0-4 Level (CGSC) and receive almost the same instruction as an O6 attending a War College (SSSC), but it counts as CGSC, not SSC. Selection to O-6 is a function of all your experience up to that point with a very heavy emphasis on Battalion Command. To be competitive, two ACOM reports are better than one. Selection to O-6 and selection to SSSC occur roughly the same time in your career (sometimes a year apart and sometimes overlapping); hence, there is no expectation that an O-5 should have already been selected to SSC. However, if an O-5 is selected to SSC first, it's a very good indication that selection to O-6 is forthcoming. SSC is a discriminator for selection to Bde Command and O-7.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2016 8:36 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Dec 2016 08:36:57 -0500

Your performance, i.e. OERs get you in the conversation. The other items, battalion command, deployment, non-SSC masters degree and SSC are factors used to split hairs. I've been studying this, as much as I could, since I was a major and those 5 factors remain constant. The more boxes you check, the better provides evaluations are good. My YG had 75% top block avg, my file was 66%. But I had all the other boxes checked, had an active file like MG Waff suggests and was joint qualified. We had one officer with only one of these factors checked, but that had to be superior OERs, while many had 3-4 factors checked and were non-select, likely again due to OERs. You know best what your file holds and if you don't intend to apply for a GO billet, it's certainly not required. The DDE course is a bear and the #1 Job that dropped was that of battalion commander, so you have take that into account. You've received a good amount of excellent information here, hope it helps.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 4 at 2016 8:58 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 04 Dec 2016 08:58:07 -0500

As other officers have pointed out, and in my experience you can get promoted to Colonel without War College, but a successful battalion command is really important. I didn't have time for USAWC but I completed my Ph.D. and have my 6Z ASI through the Defense Strategy Course at USAWC which I highly recommend. That said, I wish I had tried to fit a senior service college in my career, because it is a discriminator for Brigade Command and other top slots.

Response by COL Sandra Carter made Dec 8 at 2016 10:38 PM

COL Sandra Carter — Thu, 08 Dec 2016 22:38:23 -0500

Depends on the occupational skill and posting position. Completing WC carries weight but does not guarantee an 06 post.

Response by COL John Hudson made Dec 14 at 2016 10:56 AM

COL John Hudson — Wed, 14 Dec 2016 10:56:40 -0500

From the IG Desk: Required military education for Officer promotion extends to the Command & General Staff College (C&GSC) only for advancement to 06-Col: 1) Officer Basic Course 2) Officer Advanced Course 3) C&GSC - one MUST have completed 50% of C&CSC (with a 50% Completed Attestation Letter) for consideration to 06-Col (BN Command is a must for promotion to LTC). Army Senior Service School (War College) while not a locked-in-stone educational requirement for 0-6, is a 'must-have' for promotion to 07-Brigadier General and above. Requested by name, I taught at the Senior Service School during Residency courses for two years. Year three found me in Iraq and I could not contribute during that phase.

End Game? I received a letter from DA stating that because I was born BEFORE March of 1949, I would not be considered for promotion to 0-7. I got that letter while in full combat in Iraq. Too old for recognition, but not too old to be dancing in the sand box. Go figure.

PS: Battalion Command is highly competitive position - too few battalions and too many highly educated/trained competitors. Regardless of one's service status (AD, Reserve, etc.) - if you are offered a BN CMD for any reason - do NOT turn it down (regardless of where it is) if you aspire to 0-6 rank and above. And lastly, listen carefully: As each step of the military education ladder comes into view - do NOT delay or wait till the last minute attempting to enroll and complete that requirement...always enroll at the earliest opportunity. During my 30 years, I have see TOO MANY Officers do exactly that and fail to meet the promotion requirements, resulting is being let go. Don't let that happen to you.

Response by BG Jim Drago made Dec 14 at 2016 1:18 PM

BG Jim Drago — Wed, 14 Dec 2016 13:18:49 -0500

Really believe it has more to do with component and branch. Also would look at it as a requirement if you are planning on making it to GO level. BTW I made it to O6 without it and despite having done everything possible incorrectly in my career! :)

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2016 11:39 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Dec 2016 11:39:30 -0500

John, from a Judge Advocate-centric perspective, it has become a de facto requirement based on recent O6 board results. "Train Em Tough" and see you soon!

Response by BG Edward Burley made Dec 15 at 2016 1:47 PM

BG Edward Burley — Thu, 15 Dec 2016 13:47:20 -0500

I've noticed that some of the comments equate War College as the equivalent of CGSC for higher-ranking officers. Nothing could be further from the truth. CGSC and the courses proceeding it all focus on tactical and operational warfare - maneuvering troops and weapons systems on the ground to defeat enemies. The Army War College focuses on strategic level warfare, so instead of maneuvering a Corps, you plan the full spectrum of operations - DIME plus. For example, in discussing South Sudan, instead of planning the peacekeeping patrols, you work on diplomatic engagement, water access, coalition-building, and other higher-level functions. This is what Colonels and above are supposed to focus on.

I can't emphasize enough the value of the War College experience. There is a reason it is a strong discriminator for promotion to Colonel.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Dec 17 at 2016 1:49 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Sat, 17 Dec 2016 13:49:02 -0500

I went through this logic when making my retirement decision on the AD side. The senior leaders and branch folks I sought information from , put it to me like this. The path to BDE command goes through the SSC. You could be promoted to O6 and be a SSC non-select, or a late select (selected near concurrently). But BDE Command wasn't happening without a SSC selection. I did not hang out for my AZ look to see how it played out. I competed 2xSSC board iterations as a former O5 commander with a successful command backed with a hard job out of command (BDE DCO). If that was not enough to cut it, I reasoned, then it was never going to be enough, so I pulled my reserve before I was assigned needs of the Army somewhere else. Of course, now I am kicking myself as I see peers that were selected AZ at what I believe to be higher than normal rates. I stood the board with an approved retirement but sufficient time to pull it back once the list was published....but the board knew I was approved for retirement. A little more than what you were looking for but, my experience.

Response by LTG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 27 at 2016 6:55 AM

LTG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 27 Dec 2016 06:55:23 -0500

Since the resident Senior Service College selection process is a Board process (like promotion), it is separate and distinct from the O-6 Board process. The two are inter-related, but not inter-dependent. Not all COLs will be resident SSC grads, and not all resident SSC grads will be selected for O-6 (although most will). If you're active duty and not selected for the resident course (after 3 looks) that's a pretty strong signal that your file is not competitive - particularly if your not on the Alternate List. The strongest indicator of competitiveness for O-6 promotion (as many have indicated) is successful battalion command (for most branches). This is all based on my active duty experience as a leader and a Board member. I am not sure what the SSC/O-6 corollary is for COMPO 2 & 3.

Response by MG Stephen Hogan made Dec 27 at 2016 1:54 PM

MG Stephen Hogan — Tue, 27 Dec 2016 13:54:22 -0500

I'm not sure about for promotion, but I would assume it would be important for promotion.

Where I find to be extremely important, is that the experience changed the way that I think. I see that in my people too, it is a very profound development, and I wouldn't say that it was a gentle change, either. I am serving with Colonel's that have not been, and are good men- very solid performers, excel at what they do, and are poster children in every other respect; but there are those few conversations which they are not equipped, that their peers who have been can contribute.

Important for promotion, sure....... but incredibly important for one's character of service. One man's opinion.

Response by COL John Hudson made Sep 6 at 2020 11:01 PM

COL John Hudson — Sun, 06 Sep 2020 23:01:41 -0400

I held the position of "Designated Inspector General" for our three-state command with a customer base of approximately 15,000 service members (trained at the Inspector General Academy in Washington, D.C.). I was selected for a tour at the Army Secretariat in Virginia. There were 20 Officers in the rank of LTC and full Colonel with an 0-7 Brigadier General heading our board. Our task? To review 4,000 Army service members applying for the full-time Command & General Staff College. Not 4,000 divided by 21, NO - each and every one of us had to review ALL 4,000 RECORDS! Point - each and every applicant must have completed Command at some level to qualify in addition to all other requirements. There are exceptions to every rule and I see examples provided here by some respondents. That said, under MY circumstances, I was required to have a 50% completion of C&GSC letter for promotion to O-5 LTC - and was selected at first look. I won Battalion Command over 150 applicants. I taught at the Army Senior Service School for two years (requested by name) but could not attend at year three due to being in Iraq. I was promoted to full Colonel O-6 and sent to Iraq in a command position for twenty months (then eligible for promotion to O-7). Unfortunately, received a letter of mandatory separation/retirement due to age limits. Locked in stone requirements for ME - Battalion Command + time in grade + 50% of C&GSC for LTC. C&CSG completion + applicable senior grade assignments for promotion to Colonel. Command in Iraq gave me what I needed for O-7. Same requirements may not exist for others whose MOS and/or career choice permit some wiggle room and variation in such assignment requirements.

Response by PFC Doyle Hayes made Sep 13 at 2023 10:07 AM

PFC Doyle Hayes — Wed, 13 Sep 2023 10:07:25 -0400

It won't happen