How is fraternization handled between an active duty and Reserve soldier during AIT?

2018-07-27T22:59:26-04:00

I am in the reserves and graduating AIT in 4 days. I am currently being accused of fraternization, and the male getting accused along with me is active duty. I have been informed by legal that since my orders end on the 1st of August, the company I’m in can not legally keep me here any longer then that, unless there is a pending investigation, even if I am flagged. But since the male is active, if they flag him then they can keep him here and remove his current orders for his first duty station. (He graduates in 2 days)

1- is it true that they can not keep me here, without a pending investigation (SHARP or EO), even if they flag me?
2- would fraternization be considered an investigation? (No SHARP or EO complaints have been made)
3- if they can not keep me here past the 1st (assuming the answers to my first two questions are “no”) ... can they give punishment to the male but not to me, if they decide to flag him and keep him here?
4- if there is no proof of anything going on except rumors, can we be punished?
5- if we have been warned by our drill sergeants, listened to the warnings, and distanced ourselves (yes we are friends but nothing more) can they continue with punishment if they decide to do so?

Any advise or answers is appreciated, also if you know of any tradoc policies that would help with this situation please send them my way. Thank you.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2018 11:13 PM

2018-07-27T23:13:13-04:00

That's a JAG question your in a TRADOC environment I would advise you to go through your chain of command.

Remember perception is reality it's a tough lesson to learn.

I wish you the best of luck.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2018 3:17 AM

2018-07-28T03:17:21-04:00

There's a few things to consider :
1. You cannot be retained on active status. Much like you can't keep someone on active duty against their will unless they are being court martialed, you can't be kept on active duty. However, if your unit extended your orders there would be time to investigate you.
2. Fraternization is not an investigation, but it is often investigated and can trigger an investigation if the command decides.
3. Your fates are separate and justice isn't always fair. They may refer your case to your command to prosecute at home station.
4. Proof is only required for criminal cases. Simple perception is enough that the command may press an article 15. At that point you can accept the article 15 or demand trial by court martial based on how strong you feel your proof is.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2018 3:22 AM

2018-07-28T03:22:10-04:00

We had a fraternization case pop up in my AIT with a reservist MOS-T and an AIT soldier. The soldier ended up getting chartered out, the reservist went back to their unit for punishment without getting MOS qualified.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2018 11:36 PM

2018-07-28T23:36:36-04:00

Wait until receive an official notice from your AIT Chain of Command before speculating anything.

Response by SP5 Peter Keane made Jul 29 at 2018 12:17 PM

2018-07-29T12:17:57-04:00

2 trainees, doesn't meet the criteria for fraternization.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jul 29 at 2018 8:22 PM

2018-07-29T20:22:39-04:00

1. You are you going to believe us or JAG? 2. You are USAR, when your orders end, you are gone unless awaiting UCMJ ( not threatened with, but actually charged and awaiting for the judicial system to process you. 3. Nothing in life is fair, ever! 4. AD folks can be flagged at anytime because their orders go till they ETS. 5. It is all up to the Training CoC- if there is no proof being shown, then the flag probably won't hold. Advice to you both- if warned you should have obeyed, if suspected- should have disputed it, and finally use JAG- that is what they are there for!

Response by MAJ Javier Rivera made Jul 30 at 2018 6:47 AM

2018-07-30T06:47:34-04:00

That is a very technical question/situation and requires advice from JAG. If the CoC pushes for an Article 15 you are obliged to confer with your JAG and if O can recall (been outside of the game for 2 years) you cannot get flagged for fraternization unless it’s part of a UCMJ process. Again, a question for JAG.

Response by SFC Francisco Rosario made Jul 30 at 2018 5:44 PM

2018-07-30T17:44:50-04:00

My question here is how is this Fraternization? Is the other Soldier an NCO or is he in a leadership position, or was he in charge or responsable for you in any capacity?
What type of evidence or proof do they have on both of you?
Where you counseled or warned about getting into a relationship with another student when you started training?

Also there seems like there is some missing information here. I only ask because when i was an instructor at Ft. Sam Houston, TX. I have seen Soldiers of different components such as the two of you, get married while at AIT.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2018 8:45 PM

2018-07-30T20:45:35-04:00

From the JAG perspective, I see a lot of command teams get very fixated on fraternization. Sometimes they play it by the book and use AR 600-20 to solve it. Other times, they were simply misinformed and assumed something was fraternization without walking it through the proper analysis. After they would come to me with a packet for an Article 15, I'd try to analyze the situation and make sure.it fell within the reg. Usually things turned out fine for everyone, even though between all that, the Soldiers are upset because they think something is coming. Hang tight until you actually see something on paper, and seek legal advice if there is an adverse action.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2018 7:51 AM

2018-08-04T07:51:39-04:00

If you two are students how is it fraternization?

Response by LTJG Sandra Smith made Aug 1 at 2021 6:28 PM

2021-08-01T18:28:27-04:00

It was my understanding "fraternization"primarily occurred when it was an officer & enlisted person, or at least 1 of the 2 was in a "command" position over the other. Unless I'm misunderstanding your situation here, this is a case of 2 approximate equals, spending time together, perhaps dating? To the best of my knowledge that doesn't constitute a problem unless 1 is a "geographical bachelor". The military used to frown on that at all levels, but these days, they'd hardly have the moral grounds on which to do so.