How many NCOs get sick when they hear Soldiers referring to each other by first names and hear other NCOs doing it or allowing it.

MSG Sommer Brown — Sun, 24 Aug 2014 17:38:17 -0400

I got it Officers do it all the time. Ok, but that is officers and I have no say in that; What I do care about is when it is enlisted doing it or a Officer referring to an enlisted that way and vice verse. I just want to slap someone. Am I wrong?

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2014 5:47 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Aug 2014 17:47:32 -0400

Take those in your COC aside - inform them this is unprofessional and you will not allow it to continue in front of you.

Response by MSG Wade Huffman made Aug 24 at 2014 5:55 PM

MSG Wade Huffman — Sun, 24 Aug 2014 17:55:13 -0400

If it's an 'O' driven event in your unit, then you're going to have to have a long talk with the chain of command and convince them to cease. If it's 'E' driven, your path will be much easier, just tell them it will no longer be tolerated, that one is free, after that it starts going on paper.
If they wanted to work with Bob and Tom and Tammy, they should have joined the Air Force.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2014 6:55 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Aug 2014 18:55:34 -0400

No I don't blame you. That annoys me too.

Response by CPO William E. Mahoney made Aug 24 at 2014 9:06 PM

CPO William E. Mahoney — Sun, 24 Aug 2014 21:06:16 -0400

I can understand your frustration with this because Navy aviation community has a big problem with officers and enlisted calling each other by their first names and it's hard to stop because the pilots feal this kinship with the people fixing their planes but you just have to remind they that regulations state they shouldn't be that familiar each other

Response by Sgt Andrew Pouliot made Aug 24 at 2014 9:25 PM

Sgt Andrew Pouliot — Sun, 24 Aug 2014 21:25:01 -0400

I've seen that too. Now I only do it with my guys that I deployed with; there is a group of about 8-10 of us and we are all E-3s or E-4s and refer to each other by first name even in uniform because of our group dynamic. Outside that group, the rest of our unit hasn't deployed and they all call each other by last names (unless its someone higher ranking).

I think as long as the group is close and you guys worked together than that familiarization with each other is okay, especially if it helps you guys work better together. God forbid somebody went up to one of our corporals and yelled "Hey Kyle what's up man" or "Hey Jared how's it hanging" that would get squashed right away. I know that sounds wrong and hypocritical, like how come he gets to call you by your first name but we try to avoid it in settings where we're around all the marines from our unit. I saw the same thing on active duty when we were deploying; the active marines had their little cliques and did the same thing, I even saw it with sergeants!

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2014 9:41 PM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Aug 2014 21:41:27 -0400

It depends on your branch, your corps, and your command.

In the Navy, once you make Chief Petty Officer (E-7) you're in the Chief's Mess and it's generally accepted that Chiefs call each other by their first names. That used to be one of the perks in going through Initiation. However, some Chiefs (or "Chiefs," depending on your view of them) play the professional card pretty hard and don't like it. Then you treat them like you would anyone else.

Personally, I think senior enlisted form a closer bond and develop a certain esprit-de-corps through the familiarity of first names. It helps us do more good for our people by breaking down the bureaucratic barriers that are formally instilled in us from Day One. There are some that can't get past the basic military indoctrination that (to some) means "real professionals" use rank only.

I don't buy it. I believe that the U.S. Navy Chief Petty Officers enjoy a brotherhood that other services don't because of this familiarity and it only serves to deepen our bond. Maybe the Army, Marines, and Air Force have this sort of thing as well and I'm just not aware of it not having served in those branches, but the fact that this question is being asked solidifies my belief in this regard.

The BEST thing about being more senior is that you're able to do MORE GOOD for your people. That's the lesson I try to instill in all new Chiefs: They're not "better" now that they wear anchors; they just now have the ability to cut through a lot of red-tape to make things happen for their Sailors now that they have that shiny gold bling on their collar. And that red-tape is a lot easier to slice through if you can approach the situation with some personality by saying, "Hey brother (or sister), I'm hoping you can help me out" rather than, "Chief, I need you to fix this for me."

Humbling yourself by allowing your peers to call you by the name your mama gave you doesn't make you less professional....it makes you more approachable. And, by extension, more effective.

Just my two cents. Your mileage may vary.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2014 12:00 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Aug 2014 00:00:26 -0400

I'm an officer and I struggle with it. I will admit that I have done it at times but I didn't understand it when I first commissioned. I would never address any one above me by their first name.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2014 3:42 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Oct 2014 15:42:16 -0400

When I was younger a friend and I were both E-5s and we referred to each other on a first name basis. He got promoted before me. The first time I called him by his first name after we were different ranks our 1SG had both of us on the ground and made a huge example of both of us. Made it clear that it didn't matter that we were friends, he was a higher rank and would not be disrespected in the presence of junior enlisted Soldiers. The second the NCOs openly lack discipline the junior enlisted will run wild. He also stated that to allow me to call him by his first name in front of junior enlisted displayed favoritism on his part.

is there more than one way to handle that situation? ABSOLUTELY.
However, this way was EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY and it never was an issue again.
I may have been a bit sour about it back then, but now I look back and think that the problem was solved, and the problem STAYED SOLVED.

Now in my military career I have to look at a roster to know what my friend's first names are.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2014 3:51 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Oct 2014 15:51:27 -0400

MSG Sommer Brown , I think if you approach it professionally, you can change the culture. That is, pull the relevant parties aside and tell them your preference. When speaking of an individual in a public situation refer to them by their rank and last name. It will take time but you can fix it. In my experience I was a member of the National Guard, and I had to do what I mentioned above, and eventually it worked. I explained that it was critical to use military courtesy, as it is a component of discipline. Referring to an individual by their rank, reinforces the chain of command and that the rank must be respected.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2014 4:23 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Oct 2014 16:23:57 -0400

Being in the reserves I have a skewed opinion on this. Most of the guys that I serve with I am very good friends with outside of the Marine Corps and spend more time together in that aspect than in uniform. That being said, we do try and refrain from it while in uniform but if we are in a group and it just us we routinely call each other by our first names. When lower or higher enlisted are around, we generally go back to Rank Last Name.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2014 10:41 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Oct 2014 22:41:00 -0400

If there are two people of the same rank doing it and it's not for work, I don't worry about it all that much.

If it's becoming the SOP for how they interact, THEN I step in and ensure that they maintain a professional bearing while on duty.

But I don't worry about "ever hearing it", because that's just too far down the crazy hole.

Response by PO2 Rocky Kleeger made Oct 21 at 2014 11:08 PM

PO2 Rocky Kleeger — Tue, 21 Oct 2014 23:08:14 -0400

As long as it is kept professional in the work place, I don't see the problem with it. I was enlisted, my best friend is an O-4. At no point, did I ever refer to him by his first name whenever I had to deal with him in a working situation. However, on weekends, in one another's garages, it was always first names.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2014 11:54 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Oct 2014 23:54:15 -0400

If they are the same rank it doesn't bother me. A junior enlisted should never refer to a senior enlisted by their first name. Under no circumstance should an NCO or enlisted Soldier EVER refer to an officer by their first name. I had this problem with a senior NCO once and a bunch of CPT's. I pulled them all aside and jumped on their collective faces for about 10 minutes. We aren't the Navy with painted areas of ships controling where you can and can't go, but there are boundaries for a reason.

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made Oct 22 at 2014 5:01 AM

1SG Michael Blount — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 05:01:03 -0400

Depends on the situation. In public, I always use full rank followed by last name. In private (eg counseling sessions, giving career advice), I will use first name ONLY if I think it will put the Soldier at ease. I want him/her to hear and absorb what I'm saying at the personal level and don't want rank standing in the way.

Ask any of my past or present Soldiers, and they'll confirm I operate this way, and it works.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 6:53 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 06:53:25 -0400

I cannot speak for the other services, but as a Soldier, this drives me absolutely ape sh*$ crazy. I've been a part of the active duty world and the Reserve world and been witness to the Guard world. In the active duty, it seems to be officer led and driven, and some senior NCOs that I have heard. It's a lot more common in the Reserves and Guard, and even more common if unit members work together in civilian positions. If you work with someone Monday through Friday and call them by their first name, remembering 2 days a month to call someone by thier rank or last name might seem difficult. To me, it speaks to your professionalism.
I've worked at my last several military assignments with lots of civilians, either contractors or DoD types; and correct them a lot of they send me an email addressed to Jerilyn (my first name). I am not here assigned as a civilian, I am a military member of this community, please address me by my rank, SFC, my last name, McConchie; or if you can't pronouce or spell that, SFC Mac. It's pretty simple and easy.
My family are the only ones entitled to call me by my first name! I would want my family members to call me SFC Mac. It's, again, a matter of professionalism. Are you sloppy? "Hey Joe, let's go to the motor pool." Or are you a Soldier? "Hey SPC Blaze, can I catch a ride with you to the motor pool?"

Response by SPC Christopher Smith made Oct 22 at 2014 8:24 AM

SPC Christopher Smith — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 08:24:36 -0400

I do not use first names because most people do not go by them in military. I have attempted several times during my short career to locate anything on paper that says that the Last Name is the only or proper name to use. I have been very unsuccessful. I would prefer to hear my first name more often, when I worked before the Army I spoke to people using their first names unless asked otherwise. Seeing how this is a subject on personal courtesy and personal pet peeves I guess you play the military games and try not to upset your superiors when they are around. I personally don't like unwritten rules, so for me I have no issue with people using my first name or others until I see something on paper.

Response by PO2 David Hagwood made Apr 5 at 2015 5:39 AM

PO2 David Hagwood — Sun, 05 Apr 2015 05:39:03 -0400

MSG Sommer Brown I agree with you. It irritates me to no end. I believe it leads to a breakdown in structure. When people lose their military bearing, they get too comfortable and lax in their behavior and even try to "negotiate" their way about doing things. Orders become more like suggestions and then we have to get in to a "discussion" about reminding them that they're actually in the military and orders are not up for negotiation or discussion.

The best thing is to have the leadership help enforce the respect that is to be given to whatever service insignia you wear and for everyone to address each-other appropriately.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2015 10:23 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 05 Apr 2015 10:23:03 -0400

It depends on your line of work. I think for cultural assimilation and security in small teams, first name basis may be used. You tend to get more information from a KLE when you are relaxed and comfortable.
Most of the Cadre at SWCS refer to themselves (when speaking casually amongst themselves.. Never to us) by first name. All of us on my team, and most in the class refer to ourselves by first name unless situation dictates otherwise (high vis area).

Response by MSG James Varenhorst made Apr 5 at 2015 10:09 PM

MSG James Varenhorst — Sun, 05 Apr 2015 22:09:08 -0400

I never allowed it while during duty hours when I was in. It was either by rank or last name or both depending on situation. If someone including officers called me by first name I ignored them until they called me by rank and/or last name. Off duty out on the town with my friends was the only time I would allow and then we usually had nicknames for each other anyway. The only exception was spouses, girlfriends of soldiers or other civilians

Response by 2LT Earl Dean made Dec 13 at 2015 1:57 PM

2LT Earl Dean — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 13:57:49 -0500

Went thru that and played it out like I had no idea who they were talking about! Then stated clearly oh YOU mean private Jody? Using there last name and rank! did that with the officers to. Wasn't long and didn't hear first names anymore. They got the hint that wasn't professional and I wouldn't deal with their lax attention to detail.

Response by SPC Don O'Connor III made May 21 at 2019 10:41 PM

SPC Don O'Connor III — Tue, 21 May 2019 22:41:46 -0400

As a crew chief in the 90’s, Army flight crews always addressed each other by name, or sir. Fly together, die together.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2019 4:22 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Sep 2019 16:22:16 -0400

My take: I think it shows that the senior member actually cares enough about you to know your first name instead of just being "insert rank and read your nametape"....

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2020 6:24 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 Oct 2020 18:24:37 -0400

Its happening in my section right now, I work in an S shop and have officers calling an NCO by her first name. There are 4 NCOs but only one is called by the first name. I spoke up and said its unprofessional and now the officers are actually butt hurt but i dont care. I wont let the professionalism go by the way side because they don't know any better

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2021 1:03 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 Jan 2021 13:03:40 -0500

I'm not sure why it really matters. As long as they aren't calling higher ups by their first names. In my unit sometimes we refer to higher ups by first name. Or some of the more well known Chiefs.