Posted on Dec 2, 2019
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For all the rhetoric and bluster about veterans and improving their quality of life veterans are still dying at higher rates and numbers via suicide as addressed in the VA National Suicide Data Report 2005-2016.
The OMHSP_National_Suicide_Data_Report_2005-2016 indicates that "Department officials have repeatedly emphasized that cutting down the number of veterans suicides will require more than just government programs, noting that nearly two-thirds of those deaths are among veterans who are not using VA health services" . If this is, indeed, the case, then why has the VA repeatedly failed to engage veterans with either the skills or the desire, based on their background, to help other vets, and at the same time continue to help themselves heal? There is talk of peer counseling, but I have seen little of it! It is a simple question and one for which no real answer is provided.
So, let me share three quick stories about how two willing mental health specialist and a veteran couple were treated by the Veterans Administration. As you read these stories please think about the reported 17 – 22 veterans dying per day.
---------------------------------------
Story 1: About 10-years ago I met a former US Navy Psych-Tech. Her husband was a teacher and they had two children. To take better care of her children she left the Navy after 12-years of honorable service and two tours in Iraq. My grandson and her son attended the same grade school and the boys played chess in the same after school club I had volunteered to run. My wife, also a Navy veteran, often took our grandson to their home so the boys could play together. Once, I asked her how things were going in her post Navy life. I could tell she was distressed. She said, “You know I have the skills and experience as a military trained psych-tech and I have a degree in social work and have tried to get on with the VA so I can help vets, but it is impossible.” At the time she was working in a nursing home as a “nursing aid” despite applying for every potential social work / counselor position she could locate on USAJOBS with the VA. She had been trying for about 7-years and finally gave up and obtained employment below her skill and experience level just to help make ends meet.
Story 2: A couple of years ago I was chatting with a friend. The gentleman is a social worker / mental health counselor at a Veterans Affairs Community Based Outpatient Clinic (CBOC). He is also prior service US Army. Thinking about what I learned in Story 1, I asked a simple question: “So, how long did it take you to get on with the VA?” To my shock he said , “It took me four-years from the time I applied to the time I was hired and onboarded.” I said, “Four Years – Really!?!?!” So, that begs the question: How can any company, especially the VA, take four years to publish a need on USAJOBS and then finally hire someone, in this case a mental health professional, four years later when the need is immediate?
Story 3: Two US Navy Hospital Corpsman wanted to give back to their fellow veterans. Iin the mid-90’s when they retired from the US Navy the couple was in their mid-40’s and 50’s respectively. The female veteran was even an LPN. They both tried for nearly 15 years to get on with the VA. At one point the retired Navy couple lived in Greenville, NC. As an LPN this female veteran wanted to work at the new veteran’s clinic that was opening soon. She asked about applying for a position at the new clinic. The obviously non-veteran female she spoke to told her “Well, we are contractors and we don’t hire veterans anyway.” When she returned home to her husband and fellow Navy retiree, she was steamed. Her father was a career Navy NCO serving in both WWII in the Pacific on submarines and again in Korea, when he was recalled to active duty to push new recruits through boot camp. Her husband’s father was a Holocaust survivor who later immigrated to the USA and served in Korea in the new US Air Force during the Korean War. Her husband’s father became 100% Service-Connected Disabled (SCD). Like him she applied for positions with the VA only to never be called, despite the VA saying they were looking for nurses. She was even 50% SCD. She had also served nearly 3-years at the Navy’s largest Drug and Alcohol Rehabilitation Center in Norfolk, Virginia as a medical intake specialist. During his career he helped to save many lives when he was a US Navy Hospital Corpsman, but in his post military career when he wanted to engage with commercial and VA healthcare it seemed they did not think him qualified. These “civilians” had no idea the lives he had quietly saved. So, this honorably retired veteran started to feel like he had failed because both commercial and VA healthcare lacked insight about his experience. It wasn’t, until he became engaged with a purpose bigger than himself that he was able to restore his sense of purpose.
------------------------------
After all, had these four veterans (e.g. 2 females, 2 males; 2 Caucasians, 1 Hispanic, 1 African-American) been hired within 90-days of applying with the VA in the late 1990s and early 2000’s do you think, with additional training, they could have successfully lead peer support groups and at least made an impact? If they had been able to redirect (a.k.a. save) one life per day the savings would have been enormous. The number is huge at approximately 14,000 lives that could have been saved at an economic loss of nearly $627.93 million. Economic loss meaning that had these lives not been lost, then more than half a billion dollars could have been pumped into the US economy from their efforts. These are votes (aka voters), whose voices are forever silenced! Lives who protected citizens and immigrants alike at our borders, worthy of protecting because of their unselfish devotion to duty.
If we look at these stories via the lens of the estimated # of total veterans that are thought to have died during the periods of the human resources not being repurposed in a timely manner those numbers are staggering:
- Story 1 = 2,555 days (~ 7 yrs) @ ~ 56,210 suicide deaths @ ~$2.51billion in lost economic impact from these shortened lives
- Story 2 = 1,460 days (~ 4 yrs) @ ~ 32,120 deaths @ $1.44 billion economic impact
- Story 3a = 5,475 days (15 yrs) @ ~ 120,450 deaths @ $5.40 billion economic impact
~Story 3b = 5,475 days (15 yrs) @ ~ 120,450 deaths @ $5.40 billion economic impact.
Suicide is a call for help from a human being that is missed and never answered. It is a call placed on hold allowing the benign elevator music playing in the hurting mind to get louder and louder and louder until it is no longer soothing but deafening! Thus, leaving the only way to reduce the deafening volume is to unplug the music player altogether. If a veteran, use to taking care of themselves and their family through the sweat of their own brow, is unable to continue to achieve that independence, they take up the mantle of failure. Not because they want to, rather because they feel like they are forced to.
Veterans and civilians alike need the kind of mental health care that does not further cripple them or makes them feel weak and dependent as hangers on to life. Rather, they need the kind of support that truly restores them to wholeness, while not impeding their future safety, security or ability to earn a living, without just reason and due process. So, the real issue is the ability for any veteran from any service period to actually - get mental health care in a non stigmatized timely manner, well before they get to the point of making a decision to kill themselves by whatever means they choose from a gun to a toxin. In either way the veteran is just as dead, regardless of the speed of that lethality!
Two former First Ladies made these statements about veterans and their families:
Our love, our gratitude, our admiration for our men and women in uniform, our veterans and their families – all of that is bigger than any one party or any one election.
Michelle Obama
Well, look at what people are doing for returned veterans now. The wound warriors. They’re working hard to make the wounded veterans feel that they are loved and welcomed home, unlike Vietnam. It was not a very kind, gentle world then. I think we are kinder and gentler.
Barbara Bush
While these sentiments are nice and appreciated, it does not address the problem that there is no more important resource to manage than - a human resource. Especially human resources are already trained to support healthcare providers when it comes to understanding and caring for veterans.
The OMHSP_National_Suicide_Data_Report_2005-2016 indicates that "Department officials have repeatedly emphasized that cutting down the number of veterans suicides will require more than just government programs, noting that nearly two-thirds of those deaths are among veterans who are not using VA health services" . If this is, indeed, the case, then why has the VA repeatedly failed to engage veterans with either the skills or the desire, based on their background, to help other vets, and at the same time continue to help themselves heal? There is talk of peer counseling, but I have seen little of it! It is a simple question and one for which no real answer is provided.
So, let me share three quick stories about how two willing mental health specialist and a veteran couple were treated by the Veterans Administration. As you read these stories please think about the reported 17 – 22 veterans dying per day.
---------------------------------------
Story 1: About 10-years ago I met a former US Navy Psych-Tech. Her husband was a teacher and they had two children. To take better care of her children she left the Navy after 12-years of honorable service and two tours in Iraq. My grandson and her son attended the same grade school and the boys played chess in the same after school club I had volunteered to run. My wife, also a Navy veteran, often took our grandson to their home so the boys could play together. Once, I asked her how things were going in her post Navy life. I could tell she was distressed. She said, “You know I have the skills and experience as a military trained psych-tech and I have a degree in social work and have tried to get on with the VA so I can help vets, but it is impossible.” At the time she was working in a nursing home as a “nursing aid” despite applying for every potential social work / counselor position she could locate on USAJOBS with the VA. She had been trying for about 7-years and finally gave up and obtained employment below her skill and experience level just to help make ends meet.
Story 2: A couple of years ago I was chatting with a friend. The gentleman is a social worker / mental health counselor at a Veterans Affairs Community Based Outpatient Clinic (CBOC). He is also prior service US Army. Thinking about what I learned in Story 1, I asked a simple question: “So, how long did it take you to get on with the VA?” To my shock he said , “It took me four-years from the time I applied to the time I was hired and onboarded.” I said, “Four Years – Really!?!?!” So, that begs the question: How can any company, especially the VA, take four years to publish a need on USAJOBS and then finally hire someone, in this case a mental health professional, four years later when the need is immediate?
Story 3: Two US Navy Hospital Corpsman wanted to give back to their fellow veterans. Iin the mid-90’s when they retired from the US Navy the couple was in their mid-40’s and 50’s respectively. The female veteran was even an LPN. They both tried for nearly 15 years to get on with the VA. At one point the retired Navy couple lived in Greenville, NC. As an LPN this female veteran wanted to work at the new veteran’s clinic that was opening soon. She asked about applying for a position at the new clinic. The obviously non-veteran female she spoke to told her “Well, we are contractors and we don’t hire veterans anyway.” When she returned home to her husband and fellow Navy retiree, she was steamed. Her father was a career Navy NCO serving in both WWII in the Pacific on submarines and again in Korea, when he was recalled to active duty to push new recruits through boot camp. Her husband’s father was a Holocaust survivor who later immigrated to the USA and served in Korea in the new US Air Force during the Korean War. Her husband’s father became 100% Service-Connected Disabled (SCD). Like him she applied for positions with the VA only to never be called, despite the VA saying they were looking for nurses. She was even 50% SCD. She had also served nearly 3-years at the Navy’s largest Drug and Alcohol Rehabilitation Center in Norfolk, Virginia as a medical intake specialist. During his career he helped to save many lives when he was a US Navy Hospital Corpsman, but in his post military career when he wanted to engage with commercial and VA healthcare it seemed they did not think him qualified. These “civilians” had no idea the lives he had quietly saved. So, this honorably retired veteran started to feel like he had failed because both commercial and VA healthcare lacked insight about his experience. It wasn’t, until he became engaged with a purpose bigger than himself that he was able to restore his sense of purpose.
------------------------------
After all, had these four veterans (e.g. 2 females, 2 males; 2 Caucasians, 1 Hispanic, 1 African-American) been hired within 90-days of applying with the VA in the late 1990s and early 2000’s do you think, with additional training, they could have successfully lead peer support groups and at least made an impact? If they had been able to redirect (a.k.a. save) one life per day the savings would have been enormous. The number is huge at approximately 14,000 lives that could have been saved at an economic loss of nearly $627.93 million. Economic loss meaning that had these lives not been lost, then more than half a billion dollars could have been pumped into the US economy from their efforts. These are votes (aka voters), whose voices are forever silenced! Lives who protected citizens and immigrants alike at our borders, worthy of protecting because of their unselfish devotion to duty.
If we look at these stories via the lens of the estimated # of total veterans that are thought to have died during the periods of the human resources not being repurposed in a timely manner those numbers are staggering:
- Story 1 = 2,555 days (~ 7 yrs) @ ~ 56,210 suicide deaths @ ~$2.51billion in lost economic impact from these shortened lives
- Story 2 = 1,460 days (~ 4 yrs) @ ~ 32,120 deaths @ $1.44 billion economic impact
- Story 3a = 5,475 days (15 yrs) @ ~ 120,450 deaths @ $5.40 billion economic impact
~Story 3b = 5,475 days (15 yrs) @ ~ 120,450 deaths @ $5.40 billion economic impact.
Suicide is a call for help from a human being that is missed and never answered. It is a call placed on hold allowing the benign elevator music playing in the hurting mind to get louder and louder and louder until it is no longer soothing but deafening! Thus, leaving the only way to reduce the deafening volume is to unplug the music player altogether. If a veteran, use to taking care of themselves and their family through the sweat of their own brow, is unable to continue to achieve that independence, they take up the mantle of failure. Not because they want to, rather because they feel like they are forced to.
Veterans and civilians alike need the kind of mental health care that does not further cripple them or makes them feel weak and dependent as hangers on to life. Rather, they need the kind of support that truly restores them to wholeness, while not impeding their future safety, security or ability to earn a living, without just reason and due process. So, the real issue is the ability for any veteran from any service period to actually - get mental health care in a non stigmatized timely manner, well before they get to the point of making a decision to kill themselves by whatever means they choose from a gun to a toxin. In either way the veteran is just as dead, regardless of the speed of that lethality!
Two former First Ladies made these statements about veterans and their families:
Our love, our gratitude, our admiration for our men and women in uniform, our veterans and their families – all of that is bigger than any one party or any one election.
Michelle Obama
Well, look at what people are doing for returned veterans now. The wound warriors. They’re working hard to make the wounded veterans feel that they are loved and welcomed home, unlike Vietnam. It was not a very kind, gentle world then. I think we are kinder and gentler.
Barbara Bush
While these sentiments are nice and appreciated, it does not address the problem that there is no more important resource to manage than - a human resource. Especially human resources are already trained to support healthcare providers when it comes to understanding and caring for veterans.
Mental Health
Office of the President (POTUS)
Healthcare
Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 11
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Not shocked. When the VA is run by bureaucrats, instead of people that actually understand the customer, this is what you get.
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SSgt Richard Kensinger
As a clinical psychologist w/ over 4o yrs. experience, I continue to be shocked and angry. Out of the 20 suicides a day, only 6 are followed by VAC's? Index engagement and persisting engagement is critically necessary!
Rich
Rich
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I like to think I had a hand in helping. It used to be that if you called a VA medical center, part of the automated response was (after telling you that you have reached the VA medical center, our hours of operation are blah blah blah) If you are having thoughts of harming yourself, please hang up and dial 1-800-something. They didn't even repeat the number. I went to my Congressman's office and played it for them. I told them that if I was really seriously thinking about harming myself, that's exactly the sort of thing that might send me over the edge. I told them that at a minimum, they needed to say the number at least three times, and that bit needed to be earlier in the automated response -- or, and this would be much much better, instead of giving any number at all, just press 7 (or whatever) to be immediately connected with counselors.
Apparently someone listened. When I call my VA medical center now, the automated response includes the option to press (#) to immediately be transferred to counselors.
Apparently someone listened. When I call my VA medical center now, the automated response includes the option to press (#) to immediately be transferred to counselors.
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CPO Nate S.
Some folks had told me the blah, blah, blah scenario and I agree they needed to get to the point. Frankly, if people are on edge, I wounder how effective the crisis line actually is at the VA, aka how many lives were saved because someone reached out to get help. I don't read stats on # of called received and from where (aka by state) and how many are male vs female and how many get what kind help in what timeline? Unless I am missing that data somewhere I have not seen it broken down. Always LARGE numbers, but large numbers don't tell the needed stories.
These links was interesting to read:
- https://www.rallypoint.com/shared-links/ex-generals-use-veteran-suicide-hysteria-to-oppose-second-amendment-bill
- https://www.rallypoint.com/shared-links/veteran-dies-by-suicide-in-north-carolina-va-hospital-s-parking-lot
These links was interesting to read:
- https://www.rallypoint.com/shared-links/ex-generals-use-veteran-suicide-hysteria-to-oppose-second-amendment-bill
- https://www.rallypoint.com/shared-links/veteran-dies-by-suicide-in-north-carolina-va-hospital-s-parking-lot
Ex-Generals Use Veteran Suicide Hysteria To Oppose Second Amendment Bill | RallyPoint
This is disturbing on so many levels, Looks like ANOTHER layer of the swamp to drain. In my charts at the VA I had a Dr who noted. Mr Towsley seems to have significant trust issues" You think?? What was your first clue? In my case she wanted to put my on a medication that is totally contrary to my medical records. She admitted she had trouble accesssing my files and records. So, you want to put me on a drug that could kill me because you...
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SSgt Christopher Brose
CPO Nate S. - My only point was that if the VA was going to go through the motions of offering a source of help for potential suiciders in the automated answering system when someone calls their facilities, in order for it to be truly helpful, they need to make it as easy as possible to take advantage of. Making someone like that jump through hoops to call again (perhaps multiple times), write the number down, and then make another call in order to receive help, isn't nearly as helpful as it would be if it was much much easier. "Press (#) now" is decidedly easier and decidedly more helpful for someone who needs immediate help.
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CPO Nate S.
SSgt Christopher Brose - I AGREE. Trust me!
Making it easy to get immediate help for vets in crisis is a lot like fixing a marine with a GSW. Do you want the Marine to call for a Doc and the Doc then hollar out "Yo Marine how shot are you?" About that time things would get a little strange between that Marine and his Corpsman. Every good Doc gets off their butt and goes to their Marines and takes action vs playing 52 Qs. All the Marine wants is for you to know what to do and do it to save their life.
A friend last year lost a couple of people. Apparently one guy had his home phone in one hand calling the Crisis line and his cell phone talking to his wife. He was on the phone and it was his wife that talked him down initially. His wife had gotten home and he went to bed calm according to the story. Then about 3-am he woke up went downstairs and call the crisis line again. Then the phone was on the floor and blood was everywhere. The wife, apparently picked up the phone heard someone on the crisis line asking what happened. You can imagine the language the wife used.
In any event, there are so many stories!
Also, CAPT Kevin B. is taking a rather gruesome yet honest approach when he says "The Government, through its policies, actually wants people to get on and die already." We are a nation that is still not very honest with itself. Actually, the Capt, is being much more honest than many! But, he is right! I never thought about using the IRA concept, but that makes total sense. Also, when he says "Articles like these beg the question: are we missing something here?" is very correct. I am a chess player so being very calculated is well within my nature. I am trying to pose a problem and ask a question or two to think about this issue in a more proactive manner regarding the human resources both available and needed. CAPT Kevin B. may well be right about "support for the military collapsing..." under the burden of the the kind of taxes needed to give full services to our veterans. That would bring us to the question in this web of issues regarding the cost of the idea of Medicare for All if we cannot even provide support for all our veterans. As CAPT Kevin B. wants to say is that will take "...that individual who will have the capability to sort out any viable improvements..." when they can properly "...conceptualize cost/benefit..." in the needed actions. I have how "... rapid emotion" waste time and resources when "...logic (aka analytics)" when properly leveraged with measured emotion can and often goes much father.
Think about it this way, why were organizations like the Veterans of Foreign Wars, etc. created in the 1st place. They offered a place where veterans could go to speak to others like them. The question is simple in the "Day of the Safe Space mentality." What are the safe spaces for those who have been fighting the longest war in US history (~30 yrs) if you start in 1990. Of course Korea could be argued, but that is semantics.
In any event, 1SG (Join to see) suggested "While the people whose stories are in the OP might well have made a difference to some." I have always believed that when I saved a life directly or was part of team to save a life, the "...some..." were the wives, parents, siblings and children I was busting my butt for t make a difference for them. The person being worked on was secondary. Death is something that comes with my kind of work! That said, can we afford to leave any stone unturned. It is not about "the 'one is too many' argument" it is about the "many lives" that will be impacted.
Yes "People emotionally want something,.." and yes so long as it does not "...affects them." But, these things do affect them, they are simply not awareness to know how o how much directly or indirectly.
Just a few thoughts!
Making it easy to get immediate help for vets in crisis is a lot like fixing a marine with a GSW. Do you want the Marine to call for a Doc and the Doc then hollar out "Yo Marine how shot are you?" About that time things would get a little strange between that Marine and his Corpsman. Every good Doc gets off their butt and goes to their Marines and takes action vs playing 52 Qs. All the Marine wants is for you to know what to do and do it to save their life.
A friend last year lost a couple of people. Apparently one guy had his home phone in one hand calling the Crisis line and his cell phone talking to his wife. He was on the phone and it was his wife that talked him down initially. His wife had gotten home and he went to bed calm according to the story. Then about 3-am he woke up went downstairs and call the crisis line again. Then the phone was on the floor and blood was everywhere. The wife, apparently picked up the phone heard someone on the crisis line asking what happened. You can imagine the language the wife used.
In any event, there are so many stories!
Also, CAPT Kevin B. is taking a rather gruesome yet honest approach when he says "The Government, through its policies, actually wants people to get on and die already." We are a nation that is still not very honest with itself. Actually, the Capt, is being much more honest than many! But, he is right! I never thought about using the IRA concept, but that makes total sense. Also, when he says "Articles like these beg the question: are we missing something here?" is very correct. I am a chess player so being very calculated is well within my nature. I am trying to pose a problem and ask a question or two to think about this issue in a more proactive manner regarding the human resources both available and needed. CAPT Kevin B. may well be right about "support for the military collapsing..." under the burden of the the kind of taxes needed to give full services to our veterans. That would bring us to the question in this web of issues regarding the cost of the idea of Medicare for All if we cannot even provide support for all our veterans. As CAPT Kevin B. wants to say is that will take "...that individual who will have the capability to sort out any viable improvements..." when they can properly "...conceptualize cost/benefit..." in the needed actions. I have how "... rapid emotion" waste time and resources when "...logic (aka analytics)" when properly leveraged with measured emotion can and often goes much father.
Think about it this way, why were organizations like the Veterans of Foreign Wars, etc. created in the 1st place. They offered a place where veterans could go to speak to others like them. The question is simple in the "Day of the Safe Space mentality." What are the safe spaces for those who have been fighting the longest war in US history (~30 yrs) if you start in 1990. Of course Korea could be argued, but that is semantics.
In any event, 1SG (Join to see) suggested "While the people whose stories are in the OP might well have made a difference to some." I have always believed that when I saved a life directly or was part of team to save a life, the "...some..." were the wives, parents, siblings and children I was busting my butt for t make a difference for them. The person being worked on was secondary. Death is something that comes with my kind of work! That said, can we afford to leave any stone unturned. It is not about "the 'one is too many' argument" it is about the "many lives" that will be impacted.
Yes "People emotionally want something,.." and yes so long as it does not "...affects them." But, these things do affect them, they are simply not awareness to know how o how much directly or indirectly.
Just a few thoughts!
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CPO Nate S.
Also, page 30 of 32 shown blow is true....
https://www.mentalhealth.va.gov/docs/data-sheets/2019/2019_National_Veteran_Suicide_Prevention_Annual_Report_508.pdf
"Suicide is a national issue, with rising rates of suicide in the general population. In addition, suicide rates are higher, and are rising faster, among Veterans than among non-Veteran adults. Every death by suicide is a tragedy that affects individuals and communities. Unfortunately, no one strategy in isolation has been shown to be effective in ending suicide. We must come together to address systematically the larger societal issues fueling the increased rates of suicide in our nation, keeping at the forefront of our minds that we prevent suicide through meaningful connection, one person at a time."
As we work together (systematically), we will LOSE people! That is obvious! But, the question remains, are there stones (aka opportunities to engage) that have not be looked under (aka into) before? If not, why not?
https://www.mentalhealth.va.gov/docs/data-sheets/2019/2019_National_Veteran_Suicide_Prevention_Annual_Report_508.pdf
"Suicide is a national issue, with rising rates of suicide in the general population. In addition, suicide rates are higher, and are rising faster, among Veterans than among non-Veteran adults. Every death by suicide is a tragedy that affects individuals and communities. Unfortunately, no one strategy in isolation has been shown to be effective in ending suicide. We must come together to address systematically the larger societal issues fueling the increased rates of suicide in our nation, keeping at the forefront of our minds that we prevent suicide through meaningful connection, one person at a time."
As we work together (systematically), we will LOSE people! That is obvious! But, the question remains, are there stones (aka opportunities to engage) that have not be looked under (aka into) before? If not, why not?
2019_National_Veteran_Suicide_Prevention_Annual_Report_508.pdf
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