How should a situation in the MCX about wearing a cover in the building be handled properly?

COL Mikel J. Burroughs — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 09:47:25 -0500

How should a situation in the MCX about wearing a cover in the building be handled properly?

NEITHER MYSELF OR MY WIFE ARE IN THE HABIT OF TELLING A LIE OR MAKING UP A STORY - IT HAPPENED! FOCUS ON THE QUESTION - NOT WETHER YOU BELIEVE THE INCIDENT HAPPENED OR NOT!

RP Members was this handled properly by the Junior Officer, SgtMaj, or the mother? What would you have done?

THIS WAS A REAL SITUATION THAT TOOK PLACE YESTERDAY 12/30/2015

CORRECTION: I've receive collaboration from another lady who also had firsthand knowledge of this incident in the MCX - "The "youth" was not an AD USMC, but part of a group of Young Marines. Her description of this group is that it is one for troubled youth to attempt to instill discipline and maybe bring them into the fold."

I apologize to all of those individuals that I stood firm on with, that it was young Marine Private (based on all the information I received), but the discussion, question, and feedback on how the situation was handled by the Junior Officer, Sgt Mgr, and Mother have been outstanding - that I don't apologize for - thanks

If anything, I thoroughly enjoyed the story and my wife called me at home immediately following the incident - she knew I would enjoy hearing about it. I just said, "that SgtMaj owns that young Marine!"

RP Members this one comes from the wife that works at Camp Pendleton, CA Marine Base in the MCX.

A young "Youth" Marine was in the check-out line with his mother and "CORRECTION" (put his cover on inside!) He was approached by a AD Marine (Junior Officer) and asked to remove the cover. Immediately the young "Youth" Marine took up the defensive and asked the junior officer "who the F*** are you?" The Junior Officer then got into the young "Youth" Marine's face and told him to have some respect and remove the cover - it escalated into a shouting match in the check-out line in the MCX. Coming from the back of the store there was a loud roar from a Sergeant Major in the Marines (built like a tank according to my wife). He bellowed, "both of you shut your mouth there are families in here!" The MCX went silent and several employees and Marines hit the deck (no kidding). The SgtMaj came to the front and grabbed the young "Youth" Marine the by collar escorting him and the Junior Officer out of the MCX with the Young "Youth" Marine's mother yelling, "don't touch my boy!"

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2015 10:03 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 10:03:45 -0500

oofdah

Response by SSgt Terry P. made Dec 31 at 2015 10:17 AM

SSgt Terry P. — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 10:17:53 -0500

COL Mikel J. Burroughs It is really hard for me to believe a Marine would even have his cover on inside.Jeez
I have the tendency to remove mine now and i have been out for years.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Dec 31 at 2015 10:25 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 10:25:54 -0500

Seems really bizarre. I mean really bizarre. Like not pass the "sniff test" bizarre.

Unless we're on duty (or under arms), we don't wear covers indoors. I mean I can understand if someone just forgot when they walked in (because they had stuff in their hands).. but everyone and their brother would have pointed it out to him before he made it 15 feet. At which point "Oh, #^$, thanks!"

Now, if they were wearing a HAT, like civilian Hat (as opposed to a Cover) this story makes A LOT more sense. I've seen people get "stupid" about the "no hats inside" thing. It would also explain why the Marine was with his mother.

But a shouting match in the PX also seems odd. A Pvt-Sgt would have locked up the second a Lt-Capt identified themselves even after a "Who the #^&$ are you?" to which the only response is "I believe you mean 'Who the $^%& are you, Sir' Marine" in a calm collected voice.

Now Cpl & Cpl action... that I could see. Especially in civilian attire.

As for the "CSM" getting involved. We don't have Command Sergeants Major. We just have Sergeants Major, but if a couple Marines get into a pissing contest in the PX, any senior leader would have come up and "placed his hand" on (likely both) Marines' shoulders and escorted them out of the immediate vicinity to quell the disturbance, followed by "WTF is the issue here?"

I have a feeling the story has become hyperbolic with retelling.

Edit: Wanted to add, in no way questioning the Col's or his wife's account of the events. This is so "odd" that it just doesn't click right, which is why I expanded above. I really can't wrap my head around this happening, and honestly I would have just been shocked. Which likely would have explained the chain of events.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2015 10:31 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 10:31:09 -0500

yeah he better get some , for disrespecting a junior oficer

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Dec 31 at 2015 10:44 AM

LTC Stephen F. — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 10:44:31 -0500

This is certainly a bizarre story COL Mikel J. Burroughs. It reminds me of a Duffel Blog story; but, it is too mundane even for them to come up with a story like this.
Since this took place at Camp Pendleton this marine seems to have already graduated out of boot camp and should know the basics of military customs and courtesy including when it is proper to wear headgear inside and how to respond to senior officers and NCOs.
I think the young officer acted appropriately by approaching the "young marine" and asking him to remove his cover.
The young marine should be brought up on charges of disrespect if for no other reason than to shake him up to the point he understands his responsibilities while in uniform.
The CSM went overboard in my opinion but that is probably in keeping with his character. I believe his motivation to restore order was appropriate.

Response by CW2 Ernest Krutzsch made Dec 31 at 2015 10:57 AM

CW2 Ernest Krutzsch — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 10:57:45 -0500

How did the wife know he was a lieutenant? The assumption from the story is that he was in uniform, which the young Marine would have recognized. I think this story may have been a Readers Digest Humor in Uniform submission!

Response by SPC David S. made Dec 31 at 2015 11:13 AM

SPC David S. — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 11:13:52 -0500

This sounds or smells like BS -

Response by SSgt Tim Ricci made Dec 31 at 2015 11:17 AM

SSgt Tim Ricci — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 11:17:19 -0500

He has a duty belt on, cover authorized! Call me stupid, buthe I did retire from the Marines, what is an MRX?

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made Dec 31 at 2015 11:18 AM

LTC Bink Romanick — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 11:18:02 -0500

COL Mikel J. Burroughs if it were me I'd have that young marine mopping the motor pool every time it rained for the foreseeable future. The JO should have a knot jerked in his neck for arguing with this AM....just get his name and unit and handle it later.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2015 11:18 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 11:18:36 -0500

Smells false.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2015 11:20 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 11:20:43 -0500

The entire scenario described makes me ill...and I'll respectfully explain why.

The JO had three choices...do nothing, approach the enlisted man himself, or find the nearest NCO in range, and quietly ask them to square that Marine away. The first, shouldn't be an acceptable choice for any leader...I think he could've handled the second much, much better...and the third really depends on far too many factors to make a judgement based on the information known.

Assuming he had to handle it directly, I would've approached him from an oblique angle...started a conversation, got introduced to the mother, found out what unit he was with (made some sincere compliment to that platoon and the NCO leadership), then casually, coolly, and quietly, reminded him he still had his cover on.

You've given him a chance to correct himself without undue embarrassment, but also taken away any sense he may have of being "anonymous"...no threats, just options.

It's a shame the NCO had to spot correct them both-costly learning opportunity for all involved.

Response by SMSgt Thor Merich made Dec 31 at 2015 11:44 AM

SMSgt Thor Merich — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 11:44:00 -0500

I call Bull on this one.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Dec 31 at 2015 12:26 PM

COL Charles Williams — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 12:26:17 -0500

Yes.. there should be...

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Dec 31 at 2015 12:36 PM

COL Mikel J. Burroughs — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 12:36:35 -0500

RP Members what I'm looking for here is Leadership feedback! How should the Junior Officer in today's military handle a situation like this with a lower enlisted soldier, how should other's arounf them react, and how should a Command Sergeant Major react with a lower enlisted soldier and a junior officer in a public environment on an installation? Sorry that some individuals feel this is BS or think it is made up - this actually took place. I would have loved to been on active duty and been right there when it happened. There are a number of things I would have done if I was witness to such behavior. How about some real feedback and comments now?

Response by SrA Marlin Taylor made Dec 31 at 2015 12:37 PM

SrA Marlin Taylor — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 12:37:39 -0500

love that story. the young Marine was right, but he should have stepped back once he informed the other one of his mistake. CSM should have taken both at that point.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2015 12:52 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 12:52:53 -0500

They are both wrong.
We can discuss the degrees of wrong but the officer made the fatal error of not having the sense to address this in a different manner. This officer should receive mentoring/counseling on how to conduct himself and react when faced with unjustified anger, other than having a respect the rank attitude. I'm sure this will not be the only time it will happen in his career. The enlisted Marine should and will likely receive corrective counseling for his actions, plus details that will reinforce it.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2015 1:10 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 13:10:36 -0500

Wow, sounds like a lot of egos trying to prove they're right. I have several questions before I can respond. First, how long was he in the MRX with his cover on? Secondly, the JO should asked what unit the young Marine is assigned to. Additionally, the CSM is correct in his action; being he is the most Senior NCO in the area. And it is DUTY to take immediate action for on the spot corrections. So at the end of the day the young Marine was in end the wrong. It would have been to simple to just remove his cover while inside the MRX. Regardless if he is with his mother or not. Our conduct while in uniform (regardless of what service you're in) is paramount to the public view of Service Members.

It infuriates me when I see Service Member with their hands in their pockets with an unauthorized hair cut, with a total disregard to their outward appearance they project. Those individuals are the ones that hinder the professionalism of being a Soldier, Marine, Airman, and Sailor.

Here is one of my favorite quotes, "If you see something wrong, fix it! Because if you won't who will?"

Ok, I am getting off my soapbox now, God Bless America!!!

Response by SPC(P) Jay Heenan made Dec 31 at 2015 1:31 PM

SPC(P) Jay Heenan — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 13:31:30 -0500

First of all, I will apologize for all of the rest of the people who questioned your integrity on this issue. It is a shame. Anyway, I worked on a Marine Corps base when I was stationed in Hawaii and I have witnessed some pretty crazy stuff regarding dependents inside the MCX and Commissary. The young Marine is going to be in quite some trouble. The young officer will be spoken to regarding him arguing with a private in public and the SNCO will be patted on his back for doing the right thing.

That all being said, had that young Marine just removed his cover, there wouldn't of been any issue. The young Officer certainly shouldn't of engaged in an argument with a enlisted Marine in public, but this could be used as a teaching tool for all involved.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Dec 31 at 2015 2:01 PM

CMSgt James Nolan — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 14:01:04 -0500

Tending to disbelieve. Unless the Corps has completely disintegrated, which I do not think has happened, I find it hard to believe that a young enlisted Marine would turn and respond in that manner "on-base". Off base, well, that may be a different story...
On Base, 99% of the men that you would meet (that are not bearded up), who are under 50, are going to be current service members. And...85% of that 99% are going to outrank you, and therefore cause you problems for having a bad attitude...
Marines, in my experience, especially on a Marine Base, tend to be the most respectful folks around.

My two cents. Semper Fi

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Dec 31 at 2015 2:24 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 14:24:59 -0500

On its face the story is off.. If it were not for a respected RP member attesting to its truth or at least he believes it to be both accurate and reasonably close to what happened all I can say is... I'm not surprised at all.
End of the day the Marines (yes even the marines) are made up of humans, and humans do stupid things.. Young privet , new to the Marines, on Xmas Exodus, perhaps not even yet done with boot camp.. Young dude fresh off the street and with his mom... Reacted like he would on the block.... Was it smart..I’m guessing by now he has his answer.
I’m more discouraged that the officer allowed it to devolve to a screaming match. Ids hope they are teaching young Marine officers better leadership skills than that.
I can think of a dozen ways to get that side show out of the checkout line and handled if not in privet, at least out of sight.
Heck I might even have considered offering the young man a special prize and his mom was allowed to see him receive the “gift”.. Just follow me over Here>>>>>> At which time Id remind his mom it's her fault, then correct the young man in front of her..

Response by Cpl Kenny Woods made Dec 31 at 2015 3:03 PM

Cpl Kenny Woods — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 15:03:42 -0500

First thing that comes to my mind, did the young officer identify himself? Although it shouldn't matter, when correcting another marine, one should always start with identifying them self. this could have saved the embarrassment of both individuals having their asses handed to them by the csm..... Just a thought..

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Dec 31 at 2015 3:18 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 15:18:07 -0500

CSM>(Mama's Boy Marine + Mama) = Marine Corps. Got to love Algebra!

Response by CW3 Jim Norris made Dec 31 at 2015 3:26 PM

CW3 Jim Norris — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 15:26:15 -0500

Silly Mom, the Marines are for adults ;-) Presuming the 'junior officer' was identifiable as such by his attire, this would be, in my day, be one very busy young Marine...for a long, long time....I do smell a mythical account here perhaps....

Response by SSG Bielomawicz Wilkes made Dec 31 at 2015 3:37 PM

SSG Bielomawicz Wilkes — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 15:37:43 -0500

Wish I could've been there! That young Marine got away with a punishable offense, but I'm sure the CSM's motivation outside MRX was sufficient to ensure the young Marine would never make that mistake again.

Response by SGT Francis Wright made Dec 31 at 2015 3:47 PM

SGT Francis Wright — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 15:47:20 -0500

Retraining, everyone knows that one be under arms to wear headgear indoors. For instance: actually carrying a weapon or wearing a stripped pistol belt. The young Marine was wrong on 2 counts; disrespecting an Officer first of all, then not removing his cover when told. To correct the uniform violation.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Dec 31 at 2015 4:31 PM

PO1 John Miller — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 16:31:10 -0500

Without knowing more information, I'm going to have to call this one a "sea story..."

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Dec 31 at 2015 5:00 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 17:00:09 -0500

Hell I can't even keep up with current Uniform Regs, So I would be at a Loss on this one. Guarantee that this would end ugly for all involved, just not good PR. I was in the newest "Hot Spot" fast food restaurant in Bremerton El Salvadoran Restaurant waiting in line with my Son and Family and had a couple of Sailors come in in Blue Cammis off a Sub in Dry Dock and that threw me for a Loop. Todays Navy Looks Nothing Like My Navy.

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Dec 31 at 2015 5:05 PM

SGM Steve Wettstein — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 17:05:44 -0500

Marines don't have CSMs and he handled it like a SGM should. To the point.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Dec 31 at 2015 6:06 PM

SSG Warren Swan — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 18:06:40 -0500

Regardless of branch, if the Senior Enlisted has a premonition about you, odds are it won't be good. It's probably going to involve a massive sudden and unexpected career change.

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Dec 31 at 2015 8:55 PM

Cpl Rc Layne — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 20:55:19 -0500

The young Marine was completely out of line for wearing his cover inside and disrespecting both the officer and his mother.
The officer was wrong for escalating the situation into a shouting match.
The sergeant major was correct in quelling the situation, even though he used his sergeant major voice. He was correct in escorting the young Marine out of the area to have a come to Jesus with him.
Mommy needs to learn that negative actions in the Marine Corps often times have swift consequences, and she no longer controls all aspects of his life.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2015 11:01 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 23:01:26 -0500

Right idea. Wrong way of handling it, from all three Marines. The younger marine should've never disrespected that officer, nor should he have had his cover on indoors in the first place. But when the officer gets into his face and starts yelling right there in the middle of a public place, it's takes away all the professionalism and appearance that a marine, AND an officer carries. The CSM I thought was going to be the savior, but the grabbing by the collar just looks horrendous on the military in general.

And the mother, well....she needs to realize her little boy isn't little anymore.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Jan 1 at 2016 7:57 AM

Cpl Jeff N. — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 07:57:41 -0500

This is really pretty simple. Marines don't wear covers indoors unless under arms. If you are doing do, you are in the wrong. If another Marine corrects you (regardless of rank) the appropriate response is to correct the poor behavior and move on. The Marines response will cost him dearly. You can rest assured the Sgt Maj got his ID card, unit, etc and either already has or shortly will be dropping a bomb.

There is no excuse for the response from the Marine in question. Could the Junior Officer have handled it better? I don't know but I do know that doesn't change the incorrect behavior of the Marine both in wearing the cover and the response when corrected. I predict a lot of pain for one Junior Marine at Camp Pendleton. Lt's of secured liberty, plenty of extra military instruction and all sorts of other goodies.

Response by 1stSgt Eugene Harless made Jan 1 at 2016 7:58 AM

1stSgt Eugene Harless — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 07:58:51 -0500

Never saw anything go this far. If it was a uniform cover he must have had a real brainfart... Cant see a Young Marine Bowing up at a Sgt Major ... thats like slapping a bear while you are wearing bacon underwear.

Response by COL Ted Mc made Jan 1 at 2016 12:58 PM

COL Ted Mc — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 12:58:24 -0500

COL Mikel J. Burroughs - Mikel; The young officer should NOT have been "yelling" at the Marine.

Had the young officer known that the SM was there, the "correct" manner of proceeding would have been "Sergeant Major, would you please deal with this.". Had the young officer not known that the SM was there, the "correct" manner of proceeding would have been "I'm __[fill in the blank]__ and you are __[fill in the blank after reading Marine's rank badges and name tape]__. Now, remove your cover.". [EDITED TO ADD - I like Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS's version too and combining them into "__[fill in the blank after reading Marine's rank badges and name tape]__, I believe you meant 'Who the F*** are you, SIR?'." would be even more effective than either one alone.]

Unfortunately, as any of us who can remember being "young officers" know, "young officers" don't always do the "correct" thing so we have to be bailed out by our senior NCOs.

The secret codicil to the UCMJ (and every other known set of military regulations) that includes,'inter aliia', "Conduct Likely To Annoy a Sergeant" is going to kick in here.

Response by SGT Tyler C. made Jan 1 at 2016 1:32 PM

SGT Tyler C. — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 13:32:50 -0500

If this happened in the ARMY it would have been the CSM and Officers fault and the soldier would have received no kind of reprimand for talking back or a cover indoors.

Response by SFC Dave Parker made Jan 1 at 2016 7:48 PM

SFC Dave Parker — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 19:48:33 -0500

He needs a lot of extra duty, if he's even allowed to stay in the Marine Corps. Being with your mom doesn't exempt you from giving proper military courtesy, or from following established rules.

Response by SSgt Jim Gilmore made Jan 3 at 2016 12:53 AM

SSgt Jim Gilmore — Sun, 03 Jan 2016 00:53:09 -0500

Well let's see, failure to abide by designated protocols (covered inside), insubordination, conduct unbecoming on both parties and a CSM getting involved to de-escalate the matter. I'd say the young Marine has some extra latrine duty in his future and the young LT needs some educating as well. Had the LT handled things appropriately it may have never escalated to the shouting match.

Response by Cpl Bryan Whittaker made Jan 3 at 2016 2:03 AM

Cpl Bryan Whittaker — Sun, 03 Jan 2016 02:03:01 -0500

How do we know this young man was a Marine and not a civilian or member of another branch of service? Just because he was in the Marine Corps Exchange does not necessarily mean he was in fact a Marine. Unless I missed something, I apologize.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Jan 3 at 2016 9:14 AM

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth — Sun, 03 Jan 2016 09:14:08 -0500

A similar situation actually happened to me when I was a young Officer...except there were no other family members just his buddy. His uniform was opened, boots unbloused, unauthorized T-shirt, and hat cocked back on his head...I actually thought I was being punked. When I approached him he stated he was on his lunch break...I attempted to correct him on the spot (outside and away from public) and he and his friend got attitude. I got his unit name, called his first shirt and commander from the BX phone (no cell phones) and directed hi to not adjust anything and followed him to his commanders office. His commander and 1st Sgt took it from there.

I tell that story to say this,that young officer could have handled it better...away from public eye and his mother and he needs a mentoring moment with his superiors. However, for an enlisted troop to get attitude with a proper correction from a higher ranking individual was absolutely wrong and prejudicial to good order and discipline and should have been handled appropriately disciplined.

Response by Cpl Clinton Britt made Jan 3 at 2016 9:33 AM

Cpl Clinton Britt — Sun, 03 Jan 2016 09:33:13 -0500

The only time we wear cover indoors are when we are under arms or wearing a duty belt.

The SgtMaj was right for doing what he did. The 2lt should not have let it escalate to this level.

As a matter of fact, the SgtMaj should have thrown them both out and informed their command

Response by SGT Forrest Perez made Jan 4 at 2016 1:10 PM

SGT Forrest Perez — Mon, 04 Jan 2016 13:10:32 -0500

Awesome by the SGM, I think the officer rather than get into a shouting match in public eye should've got the PVT. Outside then tore him down either with PT or pay but his chain of command should be told of his insubordination. No matter what branch of service respect of higher ups is a must

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2016 1:15 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Jan 2016 13:15:31 -0500

You used the term Young Marine... which would imply to me that the individual is not an active duty member but a student in what would be an ROTC kind of status. If this is the case, indoctrination into customs and courtesy would probably not have been forcibly instilled which would account for the disrespect. I doubt this was an active duty Marine and instead a school age student.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2016 1:34 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Jan 2016 13:34:41 -0500

This is easy....tell the mom to stfu....and extra duty for that dumb marine that does not believe rules apply to him.

Response by SPC Lance Davis made Jan 4 at 2016 1:35 PM

SPC Lance Davis — Mon, 04 Jan 2016 13:35:47 -0500

I see a lot of extra duty for the young marine. The lack of respect in the ranks of all branches make me sick to my stomach.
The CSM handled the situation in a manner that reminds me of a CSM I had at Ft. Wainwright in Alaska.

Response by Maj Tim Rogers made Jan 4 at 2016 1:43 PM

Maj Tim Rogers — Mon, 04 Jan 2016 13:43:04 -0500

Young Marines is a youth organization that models itself after the Marine Corps, but is not part of the Marine Corps. The story doesn't explain whether or not the individual wearing a cover was a Young Marine (i.e. a member of that organization), or a young Marine (an Active Duty Marine who is youthful). As a former Officer of Marines, the officer mishandled this. As soon as the Young/young Marine back-talked, he should have found the nearest NCO to take care of the situation; if the individual was indeed a Young Marine, then that would be the unit's adult leader present. Also, if it was a Young Marine, then he violated the Young Marine Creed in that a) he did not obey his parents and all others in charge of me whether young or old, or b) remember having self-discipline will enable him to control his body and mind in case of an emergency.

Response by SPC Bobby Coble made Jan 4 at 2016 1:45 PM

SPC Bobby Coble — Mon, 04 Jan 2016 13:45:33 -0500

I would have to say, that, if the young Marine had to ask who the officer was, the officer was not in uniform. If that was in deed the case, the officer should have produced his ID card and identified himself, then proceed to make any corrections that needed to be addressed. As for the officer getting into a shouting match with the young Marine, that just blows my mind that a young service member would dare to challenge an officer after being informed that it was an officer. Not saying it don't happen, but I just have to question if that person's elevator goes all the way to the top when they behave like that. Sounds like to me, neither Marine handled the situation properly, and it got blown way out of control.

Response by CPO Randy Francis made Jan 4 at 2016 2:05 PM

CPO Randy Francis — Mon, 04 Jan 2016 14:05:03 -0500

If this really happened then I hope someone advised "Mommy" that she was a guest at the facility and could be tossed out at any time. The Marine with the cover should now be still cleaning the head with his toothbrush.

Response by SFC Don Ward made Jan 4 at 2016 2:13 PM

SFC Don Ward — Mon, 04 Jan 2016 14:13:23 -0500

Kudo's to the CSM, bad news for the young marine, and I hope the CSM got the name of the officer. If they young marine (and mother) were that disrespectful, I hope Captains Mast is the least of his worries.

Response by CN Kristen Ruder made Jan 4 at 2016 2:55 PM

CN Kristen Ruder — Mon, 04 Jan 2016 14:55:56 -0500

Momma needs to do some extra duty as well for making her "puss in boots" so soft and disrespectful.

Response by SGT Alicia Brenneis made Jan 4 at 2016 3:12 PM

SGT Alicia Brenneis — Mon, 04 Jan 2016 15:12:30 -0500

I have honestly seen situations similar to this where the junior soldier popped off with disrespect straight out the gate in a public place. I don't know if the senior soldier handled it to the best of his ability but I do know it's a difficult situation to be in. You can't walk away but there is not much you can do with that type of soldier in that situation. I think the CSM did the right thing by intercepting. As for the mom... not all parents can handle the ways of the military nor understand them.

Response by SGT Alicia Brenneis made Jan 4 at 2016 3:37 PM

SGT Alicia Brenneis — Mon, 04 Jan 2016 15:37:55 -0500

In addition to my first post after reading some of the responses. ... regardless of who pointed out his uniform "malfunction " , even if it were the friggen cashier, he should have complied/responded WITH respect. An officer should never have to "go find" an NCO to make an on the spot correction. That's like saying an NCO should find a SPC to correct a PFC. I think some have forgotten that no matter how much we may dislike it, an officer on his first day commissioned still out ranks an NCO with 10-15 years. But regardless of that, this soldier was WAY out of line.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2016 4:09 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Jan 2016 16:09:58 -0500

As a 17 year military officer this is a good example of when a junior officer should have just STFU. You are better off finding an NCO and having them handle it. What happens otherwise is the young EM doesn't look like a jackass, the officer does and has lost all composure/bearing/authority if he is going toe-to-toe with junior enlisted. Sounds like someone's company commander needs to do a little mentoring.

Response by CSM William Payne made Jan 4 at 2016 4:14 PM

CSM William Payne — Mon, 04 Jan 2016 16:14:08 -0500

There is no such rank as Command Sergeant Major in the Marines. There are Sergeants Major (SgtMaj) or the Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps (SgtMajMarCor). That's it. As an Army Command Sergeant Major deployed to Iraq in 2006 I reported to a Marine Sergeant Major who was assigned to the joint billet position at MNSTC-I under then LTG Martin Dempsey. He had real heartburn over myself and my other CSMs deployed to Iraq. He wanted us all to be reverted to Sergeants Major during our deployment. He lost that battle.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2016 4:14 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Jan 2016 16:14:55 -0500

Even if it's not the same branch now as a reservist I have a guard base by my civilian part time job. I've usually had to say something but it's usually a sir you forgot you're cover they simple said thank for the reminder and go about no harm no foul. I've only had one problem when a ocs guy cause he had his fleece on with rank name and branch and I said Sir I don't know how it's is on the army, but I know in the Air Force when wearing a uniform peace in civilian clothes is to make sure there is no military rank or names or branches. He responded with your right you don't that's when I got defenseive caus all was doing is reminding him of simple rules to take off the ocs rank patch his name and branch tags from his fleece. When he just asked what was my rank in the Air Force I put my ID done and said you mean my current rank and what your unit are you with cause me and you supervisor will have a few words to exchange instead at which time I got the info and walked away.

Response by PO3 Jake Baken made Jan 4 at 2016 4:51 PM

PO3 Jake Baken — Mon, 04 Jan 2016 16:51:30 -0500

As I live and breath. Haha!! When I was a young Hospitalman Apprentice I was coming out of the PX in Camp Del Mar on Pendleton, with my collared button down shirt untucked. A senior non-com who was driving by slammed on his brakes, jumped out of the car and proceeded to "correct" me. Upon realizing that I was Navy hospital corpsman who did not know any better, the sergeant major "gave" me a ride back to my barracks and waited until I had come out in the proper civilian attire. My friends never let me live it down. Telling someone off who outranks me never, ever crossed my mind. This kid is dumb...

Response by CPO Andy Carrillo, MS made Jan 4 at 2016 5:08 PM

CPO Andy Carrillo, MS — Mon, 04 Jan 2016 17:08:39 -0500

Embarrassing a 'cub' in front of the mama is almost as painful as embarrassing the Corp...

Response by SPC Stacey Lowell made Jan 4 at 2016 5:59 PM

SPC Stacey Lowell — Mon, 04 Jan 2016 17:59:43 -0500

I was with D-10-2 Harmony Church, Fort Benning, Ga. (the old John Wayne Barracks) It was srilled into my mind on a daily basis if I were to go to the PX (which was very rare) I wore my cover outside and removed it once I was inside and immediate recovered juat after exiting the building. My DIs were fair, but they could be a hard ass if they caught ya doing what you ought not to be doing and for heavens sake, stay off the CSM's grass. (We didn't have grass in our company AO, but the CSM liked everything high and tight. Or else I would be pushing a hand mower around the quad full of dirt LOL)

Response by PO1 Mike Edgecomb made Jan 4 at 2016 6:29 PM

PO1 Mike Edgecomb — Mon, 04 Jan 2016 18:29:47 -0500

Rule 1. The CSM is always correct

Rule 2. If you believe the CSM is in error - Refer to Rule # 1

Response by TSgt Jennifer Disch made Jan 4 at 2016 7:14 PM

TSgt Jennifer Disch — Mon, 04 Jan 2016 19:14:36 -0500

Definitely not the way its handled in the picture! LoL. The best way is to pull the person aside, and mention to them that they have their "cover" on. The person may have forgotten. NOW. If the person responded the way this young Marine did, and we were in a public place, I would wait for him to exit, pull to the side, quietly say in his ear where the bear sh@@s in the woods. Then I would get his name and unit and call their 1Sgt (sorry if I got it wrong)!

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2016 8:12 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Jan 2016 20:12:41 -0500

Has anyone thought the young marine could have just been wearing the uniform and not actually a marine? We see enough stolen Valor things, but people like to wear uniforms. Might make sense as to why the reaction by the young marine

Response by TSgt Marco McDowell made Jan 4 at 2016 10:01 PM

TSgt Marco McDowell — Mon, 04 Jan 2016 22:01:47 -0500

My brain shorted out after reading this. Maybe this guy was on his way out the Corps and thus mom being there to help her little baby during his transition. Sounds like it may have been embellished as the story made its journey, starting at patient zero. I can see it happening but the CSM part, especially from someone working there gave me pause. She should know that CSMs don't exist in the Corps and the obligatory "built like a tank". I don't doubt said event occurred, but there might be a little mustard put on the MRE: Hot Dog. I can't believe no NCOs or SNCOs or Officers lost their minds while this was happening, I'm sure one of my eyeballs would popped out as I drew my knife hand.

Response by Cpl Gregory Hajder made Jan 5 at 2016 11:18 AM

Cpl Gregory Hajder — Tue, 05 Jan 2016 11:18:40 -0500

This will also create another resentful member who will always remember the incident and will want out sooner than later. Career Councelor will have his work cut out for him.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2016 3:52 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Jan 2016 15:52:04 -0500

I think The young Marine should have been corrected and reprimanded for his disrespect to a Junior Officer. I think the CSM was correct to escort the Marine out of the Facility. However, The situation was handled incorrectly. The proper way to handle this situation would have been to pull the Marine aside (his mother was there to hold the spot in line) and discreetly point out the deficiency, and correct him accordingly. Should the Marine have been disrespectful at that point, escorting him from the building and correcting him in a more severe way would have been appropriate. However, the CSM (especially from the back of the store) did not need not be involved, and nor was there a need for a shouting match. My questions, being unspecified in the retelling, are this: 1. Was the Marine under Arms (headgear is authorized in this instance)? and 2. Did the Junior Officer identify himself upon the confrontation? and finally, 3.: What gives a CSM the right to put his hands on another person who, while being belligerent, was not a violent threat, and who taught that Junior officer that immediately jumping into someone's face to scream at them is an appropriate response? The whole situation was handled unprofessionally, and in the presence of civilians, no less.

Response by SGT Keith Boettcher made Jan 5 at 2016 8:15 PM

SGT Keith Boettcher — Tue, 05 Jan 2016 20:15:11 -0500

I'll get back on this subject matter as an Ol'School Vietnam Era Vet. I have a realistic and down to earth comment. Let me shorten my book I wrote.

Response by Cpl Tim Linville made Jan 6 at 2016 7:45 AM

Cpl Tim Linville — Wed, 06 Jan 2016 07:45:33 -0500

If true, it saddens me to see such disrespect for the corps and it's rules/traditions.

Response by SFC James Young made Jan 6 at 2016 7:55 AM

SFC James Young — Wed, 06 Jan 2016 07:55:16 -0500

I've seen situations where you have some idiot do something so blatantly out of regulation in public one would think they didn't have the courage to do. A lot of times it came from chapter cases or people who were very short. Don't doubt it happened because it happened. Question is why the hell a junior officer or a Sergeant Major had to resolve this? I believe it. Junior leaders in the Army have been Neutered (or spayed). Senior leaders micromanage them so much now they are afraid to make corrections and seem to have accepted it. Meanwhile Command Sergeant Majors and 1SGs run around making corrections all day. Go to the Dustbowl at NTC now. Go anywhere where there are hundreds of Soldiers and you will see sleeves cuffed, unshaved, boots unbloused, headgear on, eyepro on indoors, you name it. When I would correct them, a CSM would correct them, young privates would give their life story about why they had a uniform infraction. When I came up, we said "Roger Sergeant, no excuse." Notice I didn't say SSG, SFC, 1SG, CSM. Yes SGTs used to make corrections. The ones that do today are typically considered outcasts. I pushed my team leaders to be the standard, but they were outcasts in the company and the Battalion. We have done it to ourselves. This is reason 10001 why I am glad I am retired now.

Response by Sgt Matt Hoffman made Jan 6 at 2016 7:59 AM

Sgt Matt Hoffman — Wed, 06 Jan 2016 07:59:39 -0500

love it! snatch him up!!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2016 11:30 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Jan 2016 11:30:02 -0500

What is MRX???? A PX???

Response by Sgt Frank Rinchich made Jan 6 at 2016 11:58 AM

Sgt Frank Rinchich — Wed, 06 Jan 2016 11:58:27 -0500

First the Marine should have had his cover off, second, if the jr officer was in uniform and not in civilian cloths. this Marine should have been escorted to a brig for disrespect of an officer and not following a lawful order by the officer, ( The Corps is built on respect) ) far as I am concerned the Marine should be given captains mass and reduced in rank if he had any, or given brig time. and his mother barred from the base. Kudos to the SM well done. The Marine Corps is a special elite force not a Chicago gang.

Response by 1stSgt Brian Akers made Jan 6 at 2016 12:30 PM

1stSgt Brian Akers — Wed, 06 Jan 2016 12:30:16 -0500

SGT MAJOR should have escorted both outside pulled I'd cards and got unit info. Young Marine would have gotten corrected on the spot and young officer would get a one on one with senior SNCO mentoring. Then follow up with both commands

Response by PFC Scott Grow made Jan 6 at 2016 12:35 PM

PFC Scott Grow — Wed, 06 Jan 2016 12:35:28 -0500

The SM did the right, even if the young Marine just forgot to initially remove it. Sounds like he had plenty of opportunity to remove it. Mommy or not, he is a member of our armed forces. I was not there, but the Junior Officer could have handled the situation better. The Sergeant Major should not to have been involved in the first place.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2016 3:06 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Jan 2016 15:06:41 -0500

Two situations come to mind.
A good friend I went to BCT/AIT with many years ago was stationed at Walter Reid. They don't have a "post" so to speak so they have to send their soldiers down to Bragg for WLC. Said friend and her senior NCO come to witness the graduation and the SFC is seen walking down the street, Talking on his Cell Phone--right in front of the Airborne shopette. A 1SG took great offense to this infraction and called out the SFC on the street--with good reason. I'm being told this story (with much outrage and indignation) by this young NCO friend over lunch. Things like "I've never seen someone talk down to a SFC that way," and "It was outrageous" were thrown out. Having "grown up" on Bragg I looked at them like they'd lost their frigging mind. I firmly told them that, Standards are Standards and it doesn't matter if you're a SFC or a COL....which brought to mind the day I saw a Full Bird walking across the parking lot of the Walmart in uniform, talking on their cell phone...and I called him out (howbeit VERY POLITELY). I was a SPC. Some might say a SPC shouldn't have called out a COL. Maybe. But The Standard IS the Standard. If we don't uphold the standard, then who will? BTW, That COL looked at me like I'd lost MY mind, kept walking and talking on his cell and didn't even pause to acknowledge me. However, I hope he felt really guilty later and thought about it (ha!) The point to all of this is simple....it doesn't matter Where you are, or what your rank is....if you see someone doing something that isn't Right...it's up to you to say something about it. Period. You said the JO was "polite". The soldier was clearly in the wrong and should have been called out by the JO, and should be reprimanded by this COC for his infraction and disrespect to an officer. The location isn't relevant. Even the Rank of the person calling him out isn't really relevant. He was Wrong. End of discussion. I hope he's on extra duty as I write this and I hope he learns the Standard so well that someday, He has the courage to call out a COL if they're in the wrong.

Response by TSgt Richard Satterfield made Jan 6 at 2016 3:53 PM

TSgt Richard Satterfield — Wed, 06 Jan 2016 15:53:42 -0500

No branch wears a cover indoors unless they are under arms or are loaded down and cant remove the cover. Generally someone will help you out if arms full. Secondly an officer is an officer regardless of rank and should be respected. The Sergeant Major was correct to intervene as public, even on base is no place for a pissing contest. The Jr. Marine should receive some correctional training and unfortunately while correct the Junior office should be trained as well. I think the new kinder gentler military needs to go. There was a day Officers and NCOs received respect...not because of training but because it was earned.

Response by Maj Chris Clark made Jan 6 at 2016 6:40 PM

Maj Chris Clark — Wed, 06 Jan 2016 18:40:39 -0500

I would walk up and correct the individual. If the officer is senior to me, I would ask if I could get a copy of the new regulations that authorizd wearing a cover indoors.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2016 7:17 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Jan 2016 19:17:44 -0500

cover is worn in doors only when under arms or detailed to the pay Officer as security ... any wear of cover as prescribed is a disrespect, not only to the establishment, but also to the service represented ... now I will not condone the actions of the CSM ... but it is a life lesson for the private ...

Response by SPC James Burnley made Jan 6 at 2016 9:05 PM

SPC James Burnley — Wed, 06 Jan 2016 21:05:06 -0500

What I want to know was the officer in uniform?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2016 12:14 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 00:14:51 -0500

If true the SMA did right

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2016 1:52 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 01:52:17 -0500

So the SgtMaj did the best thing; the officer had the best intent, but did not act in a manner becoming of an officer by getting into a shouting match amongst families with children; and that boot should've been corrected after walking 5 feet within the exchange, unless he was "under arms" (on duty with a duty belt on). The fact that a SgtMaj had to step in when all others didn't makes me wonder about who else was in the store that didn't say anything.

Response by Cpl Jon Westbrook made Jan 7 at 2016 2:44 AM

Cpl Jon Westbrook — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 02:44:10 -0500

That young Marine needs to get his teeth kicked in. He knew he was wrong, and then when corrected he decides to get into a dick measuring contest with an Officer. Take note of the words I chose them very carefully. Officer. Not junior officer or senior. Officer.

If I had a nickel every time I disagreed with a 2nd LT I'd be rich. But I took an oath. So did he.

Sergeant Major did a great job of taking control of the situation. All he saw were two dudes in cammies screaming and he fixed the issue.

Hopefully that pfc or lance got his ass reamed out, and next time he'll do what he's supposed to. Because that's how the military works, you do what you're supposed to, or someone fixes you.

Response by SSG William Steele made Jan 7 at 2016 6:15 AM

SSG William Steele — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 06:15:24 -0500

Funny, don't touch my boy? He isn't a boy any more, but a young Marine about to have a reality check.

Response by Cpl William Finch made Jan 7 at 2016 8:25 AM

Cpl William Finch — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 08:25:06 -0500

Was the JO in uniform? If not I could see a boot looking at another young Marine and wondering WTF... If he was in uniform I have to wonder about the mental fitness of the boot... As a 7253 Radar Air Traffic Controlman I routinely had to train 2nd LTs coming in from the schoolhouse. Even in a nominal supervisory role we gave them the same respect due to any Marine Officer. That said, I expect the Sgt Major had a productive chat with the officer's NCOIC, as a professional courtesy of course... ;-)

Response by Sgt Rick Orzechowski made Jan 7 at 2016 10:46 AM

Sgt Rick Orzechowski — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 10:46:16 -0500

The young marine needs to be sent back for retraining. I would NEVER talk like that in front of my mother because I was raised better than that. I was also taught in the military you do as you are told!

Response by SSgt Michael Leathers made Jan 7 at 2016 10:50 AM

SSgt Michael Leathers — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 10:50:42 -0500

I have been retired from the Marine Corps for over a year. Now, I will wear a hat in mcx. I'm not in Corps anymore so I'm not subject to Marine Corps orders anymore

Response by LCpl Cody Collins made Jan 7 at 2016 11:07 AM

LCpl Cody Collins — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 11:07:42 -0500

The young Marine was wrong, Out of order and plain disrespectful! First if an officer approaches you to address you about being out of uniform. Your only answer is yes sir or make make the connection and when that officer is done, he or she is suppose to say carry on Marine. No Marine officer worth his or her salt will ever get into a shouting match with an enlisted man or woman.
That Sgt. Major should not have had to step in on an Officer. Extra duty is to light, office hours will be more appropriate in this case.
I served from 79 to 88 HQ Co. 2nd Mar Division and VMA 533 Hawks A-6 Intruders. I've seen Staff NCO'S jack a smart mouth Lcpl in a heartbeat. And no one whined about it.

Response by SSG Don Maggart made Jan 7 at 2016 11:32 AM

SSG Don Maggart — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 11:32:15 -0500

You uncover in a building Period... Rank Confers no Privilege...laffs unless Armed as @ Sgt Aaron Kennedy expressed we learned this the hard way in BCT...laffs you'd be my Worm for the Day...

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2016 11:46 AM

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 11:46:20 -0500

As Marines, we know what we are supposed to do. This situation lies squarely on the young Marines shoulders. He knew he was in the wrong. Hats off to the young officer for saying something. I also believe there had to have been other Marines around too that SHOULD have said something. Too many times I've witnessed NCO's and SNCO's looking the other way when things like this happen. What bothers me about this is how he was able to make it through the store and didn't get corrected until he was waiting at the check out. The young Marine brought the attention on when he CHOSE to disregard a Marine Corps Order. By his reaction it tells me his NCO'S and SNCO's don't hold him accountable for anything. I find it more embarrassing that an Officer made the correction first.

Response by SSG Wayne Wood made Jan 7 at 2016 12:49 PM

SSG Wayne Wood — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 12:49:22 -0500

I was taught in BCT (Ft Leonard Wood, 1975) that even when a superior is wrong, unless he (now she) is ordering you to commit a crime or do something unreasonably dangerous (our business IS war, after all), you obey the order and THEN complain. I had a situation I just shared with someone else in 1977 where a sergeant in my battery had a case of the jaws at our battery commander and took it out on me that night when he was on CQ. It remains one of the most humiliating experiences of my life, but I stood there some ten minutes while this sergeant screamed, berated, and cursed me for over ten minutes. Finally it was over and I was allowed to leave. Monday morning (the incident happened on a Friday night), our 1SG called me in to the Orderly Room, he had heard about the incident and wanted to know if I wanted to write the incident up as the sergeant had totally overstepped in front of witnesses.

I had the man's life and career in my hands because I kept my cool. Had I spoken back, I would have been wrong and might have been in trouble myself - even though provoked. I let the guy go, he was a ten year, Vietnam vet and had problems. Why destroy his career over one bad night? But I never spoke to the man again unless absolutely necessary, which was sad, as we had enjoyed a good relationship in spite of the difference in rank.

But I am thankful for every Drill Sergeant who got in my face in Basic and AIT, and every Blackhat who screamed at me in Jump School, spraying all sorts of insults and whatever came into their minds. They taught me self-discipline that saved my hide that night - and on others.

Having said that:
1) The officer was right to make the correction, he was wrong to allow the young Marine's attitude set him off. After all, he is SUPPOSED to be more mature than those he leads, that's why he gets the big bucks. When the Marine smarted off, he should have taken the guy's name and unit, even just the name off his tag if he wanted to avoid further confrontation, it shouldn't be too hard to track the guy and have his chain deal with him.

2) The young Marine was totally in the wrong for more reasons than one. His address to a superior officer was out of line. Even if the LT were wrong HE was wrong by arguing (reason for the story above); he should have gone ahead and uncovered and if he felt it was important enough complained later.

3) The SGM was completely correct. When I was in SGMs and CSMs sat on the left hand of God. Even though they were technically outranked by officers, the respect of their experience and wisdom was rarely questioned by smart officers. Dumb officers - well, they learned quickly or didn't make it.

4) It is the duty of every soldier to correct deficiencies when spotted. I believe it is a way of looking out for each other - and the corps (using this in the general sense).

One time, it had to be about 1983, I was a young Sergeant, E-5 stationed at Ft Bragg. I was in Spring Lake, NC at the shopping center when I saw three National Guard senior NCOs (an E-7 and two E-8s) get out of a car and head to a store in Class Bs (the gray-green shirt) without covers. I admit I hesitated, after all, I was in civilian clothes and all three of these guys outranked me. But it irked me these guys were showing disrespect. So I swallowed hard and walked over toward where they were reaching the sidewalk.

"Excuse me, Sergeants," I said, as politely as I could. "You all don't want to be caught out here uncovered, the Courtesy Patrol is pretty rough around here."

I could tell at least one of the guys resented my intrusion and was going to challenge me, but one of the E-8s, a bit red-faced intervened, "He's right, we better go get our hats. Thanks."

Whereupon they went back, got their headgear, and I went on about my business. There is usually a way to handle things without causing a storm.

Response by Cpl Randal Van Es made Jan 7 at 2016 1:05 PM

Cpl Randal Van Es — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 13:05:34 -0500

Doesnt jibe with the Marine Corps i served in and im in that exchange all the time getting uniform items for the Riverside Memorial Honor Guard.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2016 1:44 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 13:44:04 -0500

You guys are all a bunch of new age hippies. Treat everyone nice and be fair. BAH! You KILL people for a living. That is the USMCs one and only job. If you can't take an ass chewing, or give one for that matter; find a different job. This goes for all the services.

We are supposed to be a profession of arms, but in order to do that we have to maintain our professionalism. The big bosses in the executive branch and leading on down to the guys who get to make up their own uniform believe that we should look and act like businessmen. But how exactly is that professional for us? Its not. If you embarrass the shit of someone, or cause them pain (pain through physical training not a beating) they learn quicker and faster not to do those things again, or the cry about it and you know which guy will probably piss himself and put your other unit members at risk.

The military as a whole is in a downward spiral when it comes to discipline. WE are so concerned with being nicer to members of the armed forces that we have forgotten who and what we are. Think about this for a while before you respond as I am sure I have riled a few feathers.

Response by SGT Paul Ernst made Jan 7 at 2016 1:59 PM

SGT Paul Ernst — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 13:59:25 -0500

Sgm owns both of them for the most part. Young marine was very wrong for not removing the cover and even more wrong for not taking a correction properly. The officer COULD have waited until the marine was outside and finished his chewing then, but he was within his right to do so. Sgm did the right thing by removing the bad situation. But that young'n should have very little ass left because of this.

Response by SSG James N. made Jan 7 at 2016 2:00 PM

SSG James N. — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 14:00:42 -0500

Bottom line is YOU DO NOT WEAR A COVER, OR A HAT, INDOORS. Period. It was, and still is, this one(well there are several actually) things that always made me mad about the Army vs the Marines. I was taught as a kid growing up, you took your hat off when going into a building, or indoors. It was reinforced as a Marine recruit, and as a Marine. Bottom line is Army has no manners, does not teach them correctly, and gives not a single ^&%$ about them.

Response by Sgt Theodore Paizis made Jan 7 at 2016 2:06 PM

Sgt Theodore Paizis — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 14:06:17 -0500

Good!!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2016 3:04 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 15:04:05 -0500

My first thought was, "what is a Marine doing in the MCX, in uniform, with his mommy?"

Response by MSgt Mike Horn made Jan 7 at 2016 3:40 PM

MSgt Mike Horn — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 15:40:04 -0500

There are MOS Marines inside most MCX situations who watch for this. Quietly and semi respectfully would be nice. As a retired MSgt, I always found out it was not them being an ass. Sometimes they forget, just like you forget your belt or to tuck your shirt in. If all day was spent patrolling the PX nothing else would get done

Response by CWO2 Paul McGee made Jan 7 at 2016 4:05 PM

CWO2 Paul McGee — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 16:05:12 -0500

This happened to me when I was a SSgt. My family and I went to the Wendy's on base. A young Marine was in there with his wife. He happened to have his cover on. I was in civilian clothes so no rank was showing. I asked the Marine to remove his cover while indoors. He asked who I was. So I politely showed him my ID and asked for his. I also showed him the base CG policy on wearing ANY cover indoors. I told him he could take off the cover or leave. No shouting, no screaming. Situation handled.

Response by PV2 Glen Lewis made Jan 7 at 2016 4:45 PM

PV2 Glen Lewis — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 16:45:46 -0500

Stick to the old rule; it's not going to kill you to it off when entering a building and can easily be put back on when you step outside. I was brought up with that rule as a sign of respect so it isn't as if it is confined to the military. You don't wear a hat in a building.

Response by SFC Laurie Schultz made Jan 7 at 2016 6:04 PM

SFC Laurie Schultz — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 18:04:13 -0500

Lock his ass up!

Response by AN Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2016 9:25 PM

AN Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 21:25:10 -0500

lol I highly doubt it!!

Response by LCpl Suzie Kelley made Jan 7 at 2016 10:39 PM

LCpl Suzie Kelley — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 22:39:48 -0500

Thanks for sharing this story! Made me laugh right out loud!

Response by PO1 Dana Pierson made Jan 7 at 2016 11:14 PM

PO1 Dana Pierson — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 23:14:28 -0500

I don't know the whole story but I think the way it should be handled is to walk up and just talk to the Marine and tell him he needs to uncover in the mcx. We all make mistakes. If he refuses, find out why. Normally I would expect an embarrassed compliance. No big deal.

Response by LCpl Robert Endicott made Jan 8 at 2016 2:01 AM

LCpl Robert Endicott — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 02:01:50 -0500

The sgtmaj should have drug the officer out as well. To do that in the public eye is unacceptable. Both marines should be on extra duty

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 5:57 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 05:57:16 -0500

Disrespecting an officer: Article 15

Response by Maj John Bell made Jan 8 at 2016 6:08 AM

Maj John Bell — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 06:08:52 -0500

First, assume the the junior Marine is a good Marine that wants to do well, but is a little weak on good habits. Discreetly catch the young Marine's eye and tap your head, he probably forgot and it hasn't become 2nd nature yet. If he doesn't get it, a quiet whisper that identifies your Name and Rank (even if you are in uniform and it should be obvious to him). If he disobeys or is disrespectful, do not engage in an argument, seniors do not argue with subordinates. Calmly ask for his ID, his command, and the person in the chain of command that holds the same rank as you. (I've never had a Marine that didn't wake up at that point, even drunk and on liberty.) If he still doesn't get it, he has crossed the Rubicon. There is no turning back, even if he has a change of heart along the way. Draft a couple of Marines in uniform, preferably NCO's and take him into custody. Politely explains to the mother what is going on and that her sons conduct would be allowable if he were a civilian, but not in the Marine Corps. In this new world he volunteered for custom, tradition and instant willing obedience must be practiced so that her young man can survive in combat. Remove him from public, contact his command, and detain him until they come to get him. Finally, make sure that you follow up in a day or two, and that he knows you did.

Response by Sgt Keefe Porter Sr. made Jan 8 at 2016 6:17 AM

Sgt Keefe Porter Sr. — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 06:17:35 -0500

When I was in you were only allowed to wear your cover indoors while under arms Has that changed?

Response by CMSgt Chris Vandenberg made Jan 8 at 2016 6:34 AM

CMSgt Chris Vandenberg — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 06:34:01 -0500

The young marine should be thoroughly disciplined with extra duty, paper and endless push-ups. His reaction is completely unacceptable and a reflection of what is so screwed up about recent generation. His pathetic mothers response also explains his. She needs some extra duty also. CV, CMSgt, recently retired.

Response by Cpl Jesus Mendoza made Jan 8 at 2016 7:01 AM

Cpl Jesus Mendoza — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 07:01:24 -0500

I can see why it happened. In the corps you get reminded of doing something wrong, and all you check yourself and correct it. There's no disrespect in that. Unless your ego is bigger than you. Semper Fi

Response by Maj Michael StClair made Jan 8 at 2016 9:44 AM

Maj Michael StClair — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 09:44:48 -0500

With all due respect Colonel, this has the strong odor of male bovine scat about it. First of all SgtMaj's do not grab enlisted Marines by the collar - just doesn't happen. If the SgtMaj was in uniform - which this post seems to indicate, his mere presence is enough to cause the young Marine to instantly obey a command - and probably as well to defecate in his trousers at the same time as well . .Secondly if the Junior Officer was in uniform, or properly identified himself as and officer it is my most profound belief that the first and second thing this Marine would have done is say "Aye Aye Sir", and then removed his cover. But then what do I know I only spent 30 years in the Marine Corps as both Officer and enlisted.

Response by Cpl Matthew Cino made Jan 8 at 2016 9:57 AM

Cpl Matthew Cino — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 09:57:54 -0500

Sgt. Major handled it 100% correctly, when you sign on the line, when you stand on those yellow foot prints, when you swear an oath, you give up your right to be an entitled undisciplined crybaby bitch. If you are unable to follow orders, traditions, policy and or procedure then decide to lash out like a menstruating bitch when someone calls you out then stay a nasty civilian. May be obama'a America but it will always be my Marine Corps.

Response by SSG Dave Deihl made Jan 8 at 2016 10:24 AM

SSG Dave Deihl — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 10:24:02 -0500

The young Marine is wrong...in the Army...the On The Spot correction outlined in AR600-20 Army Command Policy givrs all leaders two things...the authority to make corrections and the responsibility to make corrections...

Response by PFC Douglas Fromm made Jan 8 at 2016 10:28 AM

PFC Douglas Fromm — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 10:28:30 -0500

He should have known better. I learned that in boot in 65 and I bet he won't do it again after the SM straightened his ass out.

Response by Sgt Richard Markajani made Jan 8 at 2016 10:54 AM

Sgt Richard Markajani — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 10:54:55 -0500

You know what, right or wrong, the response by that lil shit was less than desirable (especially in front his mother). If I talked to another man like that in front of my mother, I would've got slapped in my mouth.
That aside, kudos to the Junior Officer for not decimating the Marine with the cover on his head. I don't see me having the ability to hold back...

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 10:59 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 10:59:45 -0500

have to agree with sgt kennedy here, it all sounds pretty far fetched and too many details are left out. While I'm not saying it did NOT happen, I'm saying there are too many details left out. One would not make it 15 feet into ANY store with SOMEONE saying, hey mac, remove your cover...

Response by Cpl Tyler Tucker made Jan 8 at 2016 11:43 AM

Cpl Tyler Tucker — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 11:43:10 -0500

The young Marune should be sent back to COC for retraining. How dare him mouth off and show a lack of respect. But of course it took a Senior Enlisted to take charge. The Junior Officer was right in correcting the boot. Why did no other Marune correct this boot?

Response by SPC Dave Behrens made Jan 8 at 2016 11:48 AM

SPC Dave Behrens — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 11:48:37 -0500

Maybe I've been retired too long, but this is just bizarre to me. I don't think any soldier in my day would have made it through to checkout with his cover on, and would have thanked anyone pointing it out. I've seen really new junior officers "lose it" on a soldier, but a lower enlisted continuing an argument when they know they're wrong is just inconceivable to me. As far as the Sergeant Major, I'll never second guess his call for how to resolve something like that properly and expeditiously. I wouldn't want to be that young soldier standing in front of his commander the next day.

Response by Cpl Dion Scott made Jan 8 at 2016 11:56 AM

Cpl Dion Scott — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 11:56:20 -0500

If he had a duty belt on. Different story.

Response by SPC Justin Miller made Jan 8 at 2016 12:21 PM

SPC Justin Miller — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 12:21:09 -0500

All kinds of extra duty and sh*t details in this Marine's future! lol

Response by SFC Bubba Moore made Jan 8 at 2016 12:34 PM

SFC Bubba Moore — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 12:34:31 -0500

Well handled by the CSM

Response by SPC Christopher Ayala made Jan 8 at 2016 1:12 PM

SPC Christopher Ayala — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 13:12:47 -0500

He shouldn't of been wearing his cover in the building period. He knew it was wrong, he added insult to injury by trying to pass it off and got belligerent about it when someone approached him. He should have removed it promptly when called on it and just moved out. It sure would have saved chaos, imbarrasment, and heart ache.

Response by Cpl Dan Carr made Jan 8 at 2016 1:53 PM

Cpl Dan Carr — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 13:53:49 -0500

Ahh, Paris Island memories. Sounds like family day. As a marine that worked on Paris Island for four years this story is believable. I watched a Gunny destroy a LCpl for wearing "shower shoes" in the "7-day" store before.

Response by SSG Timothy Arnold made Jan 8 at 2016 2:00 PM

SSG Timothy Arnold — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 14:00:23 -0500

The jr officer should have thanked his brother and uncovered. I'm glad there was an NCO there to straighten the kids out in quick order. I spent a good portion of time babysitting butter bars. It ain't easy, but if you raise them right they become good officers the troops respect.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 4:18 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 16:18:54 -0500

I'm going to go ahead and file this under "Things That Didn't Happen"

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 4:57 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 16:57:05 -0500

Wow

Response by Pvt Angel Toro made Jan 8 at 2016 4:59 PM

Pvt Angel Toro — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 16:59:35 -0500

If it was brought to his attention politely, it's not viable that he didn't just take it off and apologize. Unless it was a regular baseball cap which is another story. Could have been a Sopranos episode when Tony told the man dining at the classy restaurant to have respect and remove his hat. But this was the MCX.

Response by SGT JennyLee Challis made Jan 8 at 2016 5:29 PM

SGT JennyLee Challis — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 17:29:35 -0500

Maybe some for mom. Respect starts at home.

Response by SFC Osvaldo Vazquez made Jan 8 at 2016 6:39 PM

SFC Osvaldo Vazquez — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 18:39:22 -0500

Young people do stupid things, but sometimes really dumb. I remember when I was a young SPC after my first 16 month deployment to Iraq, we returned to Germany and took our 30 day leave. Me and my wife and son (which was born 5 months in to my deployment) went to Casema Ederle in Vicenza in route to Camp Darby to the beach in Livorno and Rome. Of course back then I was young and stupid and decided not to shave for about 3 weeks in to my leave and went to the PX and a CSM asked me what unit I was with, and I told him. I told him I was on leave after 16 months Iraq deployment. His answer in a very high pitched, authoritative and condescending (never mind in front of my wife and kid an patrons): Go shave or GTFO of my post... Needless to I left the post... for years I thought that was messed up. Now as a Senior NCO, I still don't think it was right, but I can see that "when in rome..." Can't go to someone's house with muddy shoes... is a matter of respect.

Response by Bill Kim made Jan 8 at 2016 6:47 PM

Bill Kim — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 18:47:44 -0500

It's the Corps. handle it how you handle it. If this Marine's mother happened to be present and she got sad about it, then she should have been as kindly explained to as possible that her son is in the Corps., not in the Boy Scouts and that there is a certain standard that is expected of all military, let alone the Corps. and that if he didn't like it he can go make out with a bunch of dudes and get the fuck out.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 7:26 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 19:26:03 -0500

The younger Marine has an NJP coming. Disobedience to a direct order, insubordination and disrespect to a superior.

Response by LCpl Sheon Harris made Jan 8 at 2016 7:47 PM

LCpl Sheon Harris — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 19:47:14 -0500

A proper reprimand would seem more reasonable depending on rank and if out ranked by saying " With all due respect " and then addressing the issue would have solved the problem, but you never know when you would run into a gung-ho Marine or an ex D.I who still adjusting back to the Fleet Marine Force

Response by SGT Haskel Meadows made Jan 8 at 2016 7:57 PM

SGT Haskel Meadows — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 19:57:46 -0500

We are creating fighting force of mamas boys gotta have black socks for pt to go with their color coordinated sneakers what happened to OD green

Response by SGT Matt Tracht made Jan 8 at 2016 8:47 PM

SGT Matt Tracht — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 20:47:05 -0500

Back when I was a young PFC at Ft. Hood, I was at aa Wal Mart with my wife while headed home. We were talking and I guess I forgot that I was still inside, or that I was still in uniform, who knows, but I put my hat back on somewhere near the cheese. I was called out within a few seconds by what I assume was a senior nco in civilian clothes and told to remove my cover. It was embarrassing to be called out like that in front of my wife, but it was my stupidity that got me into the situation to begin with, and in my day, I'm sure that a lot worse would have happened if I had decided to argue the point in the store. The marine was probably trying to make himself seem more bad ass than he was while with his mom, and he paid the price for it. I know the embarrassment and shame from being called out like that, but it was his fault and he should have accepted the shame that came with being called out.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 9:11 PM

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 21:11:55 -0500

I could actually see this happening at Camp Lejeune. Within the last 10 years there was a young Marine (boot) who got into it with a female Colonel right in the middle of the 7 day store. Well she just happened to be the Base Commander and he addressed her like she was a piece of garbage. It was all over the front of the Marine Corps Times. Anybody remember that? I was trying to find the link to the front page to post it. Anywho, I am very glad to be retired so I don't have to deal with foolishness like this any longer. God bless you if you are still on active duty, no matter what branch you serve in.

Response by Sgt Ronnie Mack made Jan 8 at 2016 9:57 PM

Sgt Ronnie Mack — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 21:57:53 -0500

As any other young, dumb, full of c#%m, Marine would fell on their 1st enlistment in the Corps. (Still wearing his dog tags everyday), more then likely was feeling himself and got checked on it. We never wear our covers inside unless under arms. Come on Devil Dog. You can't beat Marine Corps. rules & Regs! Stupid!!!!

Response by SGT Philip Keys made Jan 8 at 2016 10:25 PM

SGT Philip Keys — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 22:25:13 -0500

The young marine was wrong and the jr officer was wrong having a shouting macth with the newbie marine. The SGM was correct. The mom was just doing her job but should know her kid is a dips$&t. I just hope the jr officer and the newbie marine were smart enough not to talk back to the SGM. I remember a 1LT who thought she could boss our CSM around after he made her cry she complained to the COL who made her cry again. Sure she technically out ranks the CSM but in reality don't talk back to a CSM stay in your lane and listen to the E9 that has more time in the chow line than you have in the service.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 10:31 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 22:31:04 -0500

It's seems that two junior personnel regardless of rank let there testosterone and personal maturity get the best of them. SMaj handled it the way I would have.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 11:10 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 23:10:21 -0500

Young Marine officer was right to correct and wrong to get into the bait of a shouting match. Young enlisted Marine should've just took his cover off and shut up instead of cussing in front of his mother and thinking he's above others. A SGM diffused the situation the best way possible.

Response by SSG Leonard Johnson made Jan 8 at 2016 11:13 PM

SSG Leonard Johnson — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 23:13:15 -0500

ok ummmmmmm that the story.....where the rest of it.....where the rest of it????? where the smoking part of the story

Response by Sgt William Barr made Jan 9 at 2016 12:22 AM

Sgt William Barr — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 00:22:54 -0500

funny shit but no real Marine would say who the f are you to any officer and no Sgt Maj. would tell a officer to shut up.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2016 12:37 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 00:37:31 -0500

Honestly, this Marine should have been chopped in the throat by everyone Sr to him in the exchange. Where does evading or challenging a direct order stop? Where does allowing troops pick their own paths after being directed stop only to end up with their lives in a leaders hand that no one takes regard to? We are getting away; in all branches, from having command and control. Not in dictatorship but in general good over bad "do what I tell you too". When does it stop?

Response by SGT David Emme made Jan 9 at 2016 1:52 AM

SGT David Emme — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 01:52:26 -0500

From what I remember from my time in according to this headline...it is every Marine's responsibility to make sure another Marine regardless of rank is squared away-every Marine represents the Corps. Now I am only going by the headline here and not sure exactly what the details are as others here do.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2016 3:52 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 03:52:23 -0500

Chew his behind I say....they teach this in boot. You gotta learn someday

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2016 4:12 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 04:12:44 -0500

Bottom line if the young Marine would of been right he would not of been in the wrong which he was period.

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2016 4:33 AM

LCpl Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 04:33:24 -0500

All due respect, this is one of those stories that have been on the internet for years. I call BS! Seen this shit before. E3H, out.

Response by SGT Andrew Chamberlain made Jan 9 at 2016 6:03 AM

SGT Andrew Chamberlain — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 06:03:52 -0500

Who cares

Response by SSgt Don Feider made Jan 9 at 2016 7:36 AM

SSgt Don Feider — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 07:36:45 -0500

To start with, I don't believe he was a Marine because any Marine out of boot camp knows and removes his cover when inside unless he's under arms. He also would not have been yelling at an officer like that. The Sgt. Major could have been more discreet but he did what he does too get the situation under control. Also don't believe people hit the deck when he yelled. In other words this whole story is bs.

Response by SP6 Bob Dobalina made Jan 9 at 2016 8:07 AM

SP6 Bob Dobalina — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 08:07:30 -0500

He did good these new age soldiers are too damn soft

Response by SGT Anita Selvey made Jan 9 at 2016 9:30 AM

SGT Anita Selvey — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 09:30:08 -0500

Well handled!

Response by MSG Nathan Ellison made Jan 9 at 2016 9:54 AM

MSG Nathan Ellison — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 09:54:08 -0500

That kid was wrong three ways to to Sunday. Thank God the Marines still have some old school soldiering (sorry, I don't know what you call it in the Marines, but please send some to the Army) left in the ranks. IF THE STORY IS TRUE, I hope that kid gets a hot poker rammed up his ass for the crap he pulled. Think about it for a minute and let the gravity of the offense settle in. That Marine, over an extremely minor correction, lost all military bearing and discipline. That is a troop that needs a serious re education. In the Army, back in the day, they had a place called the CCF, the Commanders Confinement Facility (I think) or AKA Charlies Chicken Farm. If I remember correctly, it was a non-judicial disciplinary confinement option for Commanders to send their leadership challenges to for 30 days to help them remember they were in the military and there were rules and regulations they were obligated to follow. This sounds like just the place this young troop needs to spend some quality time in.

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2016 11:17 AM

LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 11:17:27 -0500

The inherent disrespect off the current group of enlisted folks is on display every single day. Every error I made as a junior enlisted man was quickly and aggressively pointed out. Pointed out by the chiefs that are ever present at any base. So why exactly did this marine make it to the check out line before someone fixed him? All the other statements about discipline in private and what not are true. However I would have simply made eye contact and pointed at the cover. In my experience with marines, the 'who the f**k are you' part is beyond belief.

Response by TSgt John Hotelling made Jan 9 at 2016 11:44 AM

TSgt John Hotelling — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 11:44:00 -0500

Are we sure that the Junior Officer even knew what was wrong LOL Some times it is fun to mess with them...

Response by Capt James Kerins made Jan 9 at 2016 12:32 PM

Capt James Kerins — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 12:32:54 -0500

BS story all the way, NEVER HAPPENED in MY Corps. No Marine would ever tell the Lt who the f do you think you are. The junior enlisted would never have earned the title US Marine if he did not have the right stuff like dedication to our Corps. The junior enlisted Marine Knows the rank structure and no we remover our covers in doors all the time except when under arms or wearing the duty belt which we all know very well. So the Marine would know he is out of regulations to keep his cover on indoors and any Officer that approaches him will get the proper respect accorded to his or her rank PERIOD.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2016 12:54 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 12:54:53 -0500

Marines whom I respect have bravado that serves them well on the battlefield, but this "shoot first and forget to consider collateral damage" shows a lack of situational awareness, and does not surprise me as a consequence of being wired for contact.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2016 2:33 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 14:33:48 -0500

Wow! Making a scene like that is so unnecessary and demonstrates underlying societal problems.

Response by Sgt Rick Delmont made Jan 9 at 2016 2:46 PM

Sgt Rick Delmont — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 14:46:12 -0500

Even though I got out in 1991, I have a REALLY hard time wrapping my brain around this: Immediately the young Marine took up the defensive and asked the junior officer "who the F*** are you?"

I am not saying it did not go down as described, but has the Corps really deteriorated to this extent??? I never heard an enlisted Marine curse in front of an Officer, never mind "at" one.

Response by TSgt Michael P Reed made Jan 9 at 2016 3:49 PM

TSgt Michael P Reed — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 15:49:53 -0500

First off the youngster was in the wrong for cursing at the officer when he was asked to remove his cover. That is taught to all recruits from day one no matter what branch of service you are in. Second, the officer was in the wrong to let it escalate into a pissing contest with the youngster. Any senior NCO or officer should maintain their cool in this sort of situation and just take down the name of the offending party to bring forward to that parties commander. The CSM should not have had to get involved. Both the officer and the enlisted troop were at fault here and both of them, at the very least should receive reprimands for conduct unbecoming. As for the mother getting her nose into the matter, she is not a part of the Marines and should have been told to butt out as this was a disciplinary matter to be handles by the CSM.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2016 4:04 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 16:04:52 -0500

There's nothing wrong with correcting a young recruit, but usually officers don't do such. And USUALLY, it doesn't happen in the presence of the parent of that recruit. It would have been a subtle situation if the young officer would have used more of a tactful approach, a subtle notion to remove the cover without the mother even knowing. That's not something that is practiced in the army for the Marines are well able to control that recruit, but that parent. . . . . . . . My mother would have put hands on everyone. It's her duty to protect her child in any situation. BAD reflection on both the Junior officer and the CSM.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2016 4:46 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 16:46:30 -0500

Out standing correction and in my Marine corps that Marine has disobeyed a direct order from an officer as well he disrespected that same officer and that Marine needs to see the command in an NJP. My biggest issue is it took an officer and a SgtMaj to make this correction where was the dozen NCOS who did nothing about it. Our Corps will be in there hands soon.

Response by GySgt William Hardy made Jan 9 at 2016 7:42 PM

GySgt William Hardy — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 19:42:54 -0500

Sound fishy. In the Marines you do not wear a cover indoors unless you are under arms (duty belt). If anyone who is of higher rank tells you do something, you do it. For example, I once was present when a First Sergeant yelled across the street to some Marines to pick up the trash in the curb. They bent down and picked it up. That's the way it is in the Corps. If it went down like the story says, the Pvt can face Office Hours (ART 15) and the officer a reprimand. Privates obey orders from everyone above him, even if they are not in his chain of command (up to a certain point, but usually yes they do) and the young officer should have known better. The mother has no say in the matter and I seriously doubt that the SgtMaj knew it was his mother at the time. Had he known, I bet he would have amended his actions in front of the mother as to not add to the embarrassment.

Response by SGT Jeremy Phillips made Jan 9 at 2016 8:51 PM

SGT Jeremy Phillips — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 20:51:16 -0500

The Junior Officer was correct in performing an "on the spot correction" with the Marine in question. He was in the wrong for wearing his cover inside a building. The Marine was more in the wrong for using foul language with the Junior Officer just because he was being corrected in front of his mother. Although the Junior Officer was in the right to correct the Marine his position turned to being wrong when he allowed it to escalate into a yelling match. As for the CSM and the Mother, the CSM did his best to diffuse the situation by removing the Marine and making him understand just how much he was wrong(the Junior Officer should have also been included). The mother was just doing what any loving mother would have done, and that is to stand up for her child although she should have understood the there is supposed to be a certain level of discipline that is supposed to be upheld. I would hope that the CSM would have explained why he handled the situation the way he did. I'm sure he could have handled the situation better him/herself. Physically pulling the Marine to the side in front of his mother probably wasn't the best idea either.

Response by TSgt Tom Miller made Jan 9 at 2016 9:49 PM

TSgt Tom Miller — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 21:49:39 -0500

I'm thinking extra duty for the Marine and push ups for the mother.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2016 1:39 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Jan 2016 01:39:46 -0500

At no point in this story would I say what the young Marine did was okay. What a stupid thing to cause such a spectacle. I don't care who you are if you get corrected how about just saying thank you and going about your day. It's not that serious.

Response by LCpl Donald Hall made Jan 10 at 2016 9:04 AM

LCpl Donald Hall — Sun, 10 Jan 2016 09:04:14 -0500

Well,i read the post;& in my day, the lad w/mom would face office hour!!
2007 mayport Fl. naval base,golf club i was ask to remove my golf hat (cover)
while in the building by a L.J.G. Respectfully i did so; been quite afew years
sense i put the bill of my cover behind me tuck behind belt, woo flash BACK

Response by SGT William Romeo made Jan 10 at 2016 9:16 AM

SGT William Romeo — Sun, 10 Jan 2016 09:16:27 -0500

Made the same mistake. Was asked to remove my cover by a junior Sargent to me...guess I was respectful of authority plus new I was wrong and took it off....end of that story. Young people even in the Marines now seem to think they bow to no one....I'm not tyrant but some of this equality stuff has gotta stop!!

Response by SSG Mike Angelo made Jan 10 at 2016 9:26 AM

SSG Mike Angelo — Sun, 10 Jan 2016 09:26:11 -0500

Be right first when making an on the spot correction. Be tactful. Be mature and recommend or advise corrective action and or behavior.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2016 9:36 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Jan 2016 09:36:47 -0500

Very difficult to say without link or printed verbal exchange. Can you provide the link?
Thank you

Response by PO1 Eddie Murphy made Jan 10 at 2016 9:55 AM

PO1 Eddie Murphy — Sun, 10 Jan 2016 09:55:56 -0500

Well for one they are both wrong and the young marine should had done what the JO wanted and then just got his name and told his COC and left it at that. Pick and choice your battles. MA(EXW/ESWS) MURPHY USN /RET

Response by SPC Montel Walker made Jan 10 at 2016 10:45 AM

SPC Montel Walker — Sun, 10 Jan 2016 10:45:42 -0500

Yes, wrong is wrong right is right you may not like the person but you will respect the rank!

Response by 1LT William Clardy made Jan 10 at 2016 4:02 PM

1LT William Clardy — Sun, 10 Jan 2016 16:02:58 -0500

COL Mikel J. Burroughs, was the junior officer in uniform or in civvies?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2016 5:15 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Jan 2016 17:15:47 -0500

If it happened like described, the Marine was obviously insubordiinate. The officer and NCOs that intervene, should firmly, but respectfully say something like... Just a reminder, I'm sure you are aware that we uncover in a building except when on duty and armed; its highly unlikely the Marine would have become unglued unless he really had extreme emotional problems.

Response by Cpl Kenneth Ledbetter made Jan 10 at 2016 6:09 PM

Cpl Kenneth Ledbetter — Sun, 10 Jan 2016 18:09:58 -0500

Easy, the Sgt.Major handled it. Mom should have been giving him 10. I rather be locked in a Shiite House for a week that be that young stupid Marine.

Response by Col Kyle Taylor made Jan 10 at 2016 8:11 PM

Col Kyle Taylor — Sun, 10 Jan 2016 20:11:05 -0500

There was quite a bit of learning that needed to happen. I'll start with the easy part... The junior officer should have waited after they checked out and asked to talk to the young Marine and tel him that it is inappropriate to wear his cover inside unless under arms. I'm sure the young Marine would have apologized and they could go about their day.
The young Marine should have know as I know he was taught properly how and when to wear the cover.
The senior NCO took responsibility for a bad situation and made corrective action (I personally have no issue with a SNCO becoming loud and making corrective action, we need that).
I remember being on a marine base as an exchange officer back in 93-96 and walking into the MCX a young Devildog walked by me without rendering proper courtesy. I stopped, turned around and asked "Devildog, how come you don't respect me?" He said "What?" I repeated myself and then stated that I have a blue cover on with silver rank that is obviously easy to see as it is out of the ordinary as I was the only Air Force person on the base so he must have seen it so how come he didn't respect me. He quickly snapped to attention, rendered proper courtesy and I returned the salute. I'm not sure if it made an impact but figured it was an appropriate way to deal with the situation.

Response by Capt Kimberly Shaw made Jan 10 at 2016 8:17 PM

Capt Kimberly Shaw — Sun, 10 Jan 2016 20:17:21 -0500

The whole scenario seems kind of bizarre...I have trouble believing the young marine asked the junior officer "Who the F*** are you?" I have never known a Marine to be disrespectful to junior/senior officers.

Response by SFC Russ Chapman made Jan 10 at 2016 9:51 PM

SFC Russ Chapman — Sun, 10 Jan 2016 21:51:35 -0500

If your in the wrong and someone makes a correction it don't matter what rank they are fix the deficiency . Young marine is no match for a office right or Wong his mother is ill relevant in this situation

Response by CSM Chris McKeown made Jan 10 at 2016 9:57 PM

CSM Chris McKeown — Sun, 10 Jan 2016 21:57:33 -0500

Sounds like a kid wearing his daddy's uniform to me. The SGM handled the situation correctly. :)

Response by SGT John Thomas made Jan 10 at 2016 10:02 PM

SGT John Thomas — Sun, 10 Jan 2016 22:02:09 -0500

I understand the SGM's response but the young officer has something to learn about leadership. If he was in civies he should have identified himself and instructed the young marine to remove his cover. And the young marine should have said "yes sir!" smartly and complied. Bad on both of the guys for not handling themselves well.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2016 11:12 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Jan 2016 23:12:45 -0500

No matter what your rank, you have a duty to make on the spot uniform corrections. Even if I am not in uniform I Would still make a correction on a uniform issue. You just need to remember that you need to do it with respect.

Response by TSgt Dave Whitford made Jan 11 at 2016 12:23 AM

TSgt Dave Whitford — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 00:23:12 -0500

I'd say his entire remaining career will be made up of extra duties. And was Air Force...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2016 1:00 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 01:00:10 -0500

Couldn't stop smiling

Response by Cpl Julio Reynolds made Jan 11 at 2016 5:27 AM

Cpl Julio Reynolds — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 05:27:56 -0500

I also see a tint of the BS factor here in this story. The major problem in the story is that the facts: 1. aren't consistent with even a single branch of service mixing Army and Marines, and 2. assuming that they WERE all Marines, it doesn't fit the Marine Attitude or Marine conduct/proceedures for handling enlisted vs officer situations like this at all. I have never seen anyone "hit the deck" in the MCX or even anywhere on base over an argument. Yes there would be PLENTY of gawkers and rubber-neckers though. I also cant see a top-ranked SNCO behave that way either, storming the scene like a drill instructor in a boot-camp squadbay. Ive personally witnessed it in private, but never in public. As for the question of how it SHOULD have been handled, Id have to say exactly like Sgt Kennedy stated below. Marines have a STRICT protocol in matters like this. ON THE OTHER HAND, I have been to ARMY bases as both a Marine and as a soldier. I have seen instances where the two have mixed with volatile consequences, for example on Fort Sill. There Marines and soldiers are intermingled, all young, dumb, and full of... adrenaline. I have seen Marines go off on soldiers, not realizing the difference in regulations/traditions. I have seen all out platoon battles come within a second of beginning over a soldier walking between a Marine and the platoon he was standing in front of giving instructions to. (I was personally IN that platoon, and that soldier had the fear of GOD in his eyes when the whole platoon of Marines erupted on him before being called off by our instructor.) So my point is this, this story could only make sense to me if it occurred in mixed company. Just my opinion though.

Response by Cpl Julio Reynolds made Jan 11 at 2016 5:36 AM

Cpl Julio Reynolds — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 05:36:52 -0500

As for the situation itself, if ANYONE corrects you on the wear of your uniform and you are in the wrong, you thank them and fix it. If you are NOT wrong, you take them aside and discuss the error. If it is YOU doing the correcting, you pull them aside and do it then, not publically. NEVER, no matter the ranks, would you act in the manner of ANY of those involved, except maybe the one breaking the confrontation up if it had become physical. Marines and soldiers are to be professional at all times in public {minus bars for Marines, HAHA} or they have no business wearing the uniform in my opinion, again regardless of their rank.

Response by Cpl Julio Reynolds made Jan 11 at 2016 5:47 AM

Cpl Julio Reynolds — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 05:47:43 -0500

As for the young "Marine's" punishment? I'd have him standing in front of AT LEAST the company CO in a heartbeat! As for the officer, he should never have let it escalate into a shouting match. If he cant handle one enlisted man, he shouldn't be an officer. As for the mom, I give her Kudos! HAHA

Response by PO1 Joseph Frazier made Jan 11 at 2016 6:03 AM

PO1 Joseph Frazier — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 06:03:10 -0500

Lots of extra duty is in this young Marines future. He had NO reason disrespecting the JR Officer.

Response by LCpl Liam Jasper made Jan 11 at 2016 11:45 AM

LCpl Liam Jasper — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 11:45:57 -0500

Good job by Sgt.Maj. Blt. Office Hours for the young shit bird. Take a stripe and forefit 2/3 for one month.

Response by Cpl Jamar Hartford made Jan 11 at 2016 12:21 PM

Cpl Jamar Hartford — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 12:21:58 -0500

This is one reason I left the Corps. This new generation of boy scouts are lacking in discipline, and respect. Insubordination is a common occurrence now, it seems.

Response by SPC Najla Switzer made Jan 11 at 2016 1:51 PM

SPC Najla Switzer — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 13:51:22 -0500

No way. I remember walking into a building and forgetting my cover for about 2.5 seconds before I'm scrambling to snatch it off. You are reamed out enough in the beginning to never want to get caught with it on while inside. Having someone actually point it out would have any young soldier's guts in a knot at the terror that someone in rank saw it as well.

Response by SSgt Jim Rooth made Jan 11 at 2016 2:52 PM

SSgt Jim Rooth — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 14:52:41 -0500

I am so confused... My confusion is not "DID this happen" but what has happened to the Corps I so dearly love that would allow this to happen?

Let me tell you of something in my past that I am not particularly proud of but that taught me instantly the proper way to wear a uniform. I was home on boot leave.. I was a Pvt. at the time . I wear wearing Class A Green uniform. I had my blouse off, my sleeves folded up twice and my scarf hanging loosely around my neck. I walked into a truck stop to get a coke...way too young for a beer... and made it all the way to the counter before being accosted by four different individuals. They were not together but seemed to have seen me at the same time. It took them about 1.5 nanoseconds to instruct me in the proper way I WOULD wear my Marine Corps uniform in public. Needless to say, I did not yell, curse or do anything other than say yes sir! After I squared away, to a man they offered to buy me dinner, a beer or whatever else I wanted. All I wanted was to find a larger rock to crawl under.

Go forward 10 years and find me a SSGT on recruiting duty. I am driving through a neighborhood and I see this pretty young lady in shorts and a Dress Blue Blouse draped over her shoulders. She also had a white barracks cover on her gouard. Standing next to her was a young man wearing a white tee shirt and dress blue trousers. I stopped my Government Green automobile, got the young Marine's attention and motioned for him to come over to the car door. I explained to him the importance of wearing the uniform properly and then asked him what that uniform meant to him. He was really proud of having earned it while in boot camp. I suggested that he retain that pride by putting it back on and wearing it properly for all the world to see. I told him if the young lady wanted to wear one, she should come down to my office and apply for an enlistment package. With "Semper Fidelis" I drove off. I saw the young Marine two days later. He thanks me for my tutelage but said the young lady would not be visiting the office...

Response by SPC Brian Bates made Jan 11 at 2016 3:44 PM

SPC Brian Bates — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 15:44:46 -0500

After the initial profane response,the officer should have called him to attention,locked his heals,and ordered him to remove his headgear....If there was any more disrespect or trouble he should have arrested him for insubordination ,disrespect to an officer and dishonoring the uniform! When you are in uniform you represent the Armed Forces and doing anything to dishonor that uniform is against regulations...

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2016 4:22 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 16:22:53 -0500

Weird - I'm surprised he made it to the checkout line without being corrected.
Reading the rest of the comments, my guess is the SNM is a shitbag or was disgruntled and was trying to prove something (although he should know better - in or out of uniform).
I've known a few ADSEP Marines, and even they knew better - I always used to tell Juniors to at least avoid negative attention, in order to get through whatever situation they're in or whatever the case may be over quicker, and not add anything to it (Article 134) - seen this get blown up too, more specifically extending someone's time (EAS or punitively).

Response by TSgt Frank Presson made Jan 11 at 2016 6:25 PM

TSgt Frank Presson — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 18:25:08 -0500

Cover inside a bldg is never encouraged or allowed unless under arms...though there is a polite way to tell folks about it...

Response by SMSgt William Hassiepen made Jan 11 at 2016 6:51 PM

SMSgt William Hassiepen — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 18:51:43 -0500

This whole think sounds bizzare, I can't imagine a marine boot, mouthing off to an officer or any rank let alone a junior one. Nor do I see the officer getting into a shouting match as well. This paints the picture that discipline in the Marine Corps has completely broken down and I can't believe that.

Response by SGT Jason Mester made Jan 11 at 2016 8:07 PM

SGT Jason Mester — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 20:07:46 -0500

I have heard similar things happening and while I was still in the Marines myself it happened to me. With several key differences.
I did not have my mother with me.
I was not stupid and cuss at a supposed officer. The guy was in civies like myself.
There was a Gunny in line behind me that laughed the whole time and asked if there was any trouble.
I was in civies and he asked me to turn my hat around if not take it off completely.

The issue was that I had finished checking out and the check out lady had reminded me of my hat. She put it on for me which caused the Gunny to chuckle given it was massively crooked and slightly backwards. I thanked her and started on my way and then this guy yells to me to remove my cover. Now I was still in SOI and this was weekend libo and naturally still greenhorn I automatically assumed that anybody in civies might be an officer so I said no can do sir my hands are full. He laughed, I laughed and he offered to do it for me. I mention that where I am from only girls touch the mans hat and that my cover was part of my uniform. More laughter and the Gunny was joining in and we walked out civil like.

I have seen similar things in the Army both growing up and serving after the Marines. Never quite played out like the afore mentioned story though.

Response by LT Carl Martin made Jan 11 at 2016 9:01 PM

LT Carl Martin — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 21:01:40 -0500

I have known and worked with Marines almost 25+ years and this just doesn't sound right. A young Marine would have fallen all over himself if a JO came up to him to ask him to remove his cover. Most JO's that I have known would have called the Marine off to the side to tell him to remove his cover. If in fact the situation escalated, the Sergeant Major's reaction would have been acceptable though I doubt he would have placed hands on the young Marine.

Response by SGT Brian Boyd made Jan 12 at 2016 5:28 AM

SGT Brian Boyd — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 05:28:53 -0500

Him mom?

Response by PO2 Tom Doran made Jan 12 at 2016 5:57 AM

PO2 Tom Doran — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 05:57:54 -0500

Don't wear your cover indoors unless you're armed and have the respect to do the right thing and remove it if you forget and are reminded by someone

Response by Sgt John Hidrgo made Jan 12 at 2016 6:47 AM

Sgt John Hidrgo — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 06:47:55 -0500

This story sucks. Needs additional details to determine actual events that may/may not have taken place. I'd like to know details of what both persons were wearing. If neither are in uniform, i'd question some random person questioning me, who the hell they were also. And if it is, some boot lieutenant, he/she may have got butt hurt by being talked to like that b/c they, like the junior enlisted doesn't know shit either, so then it becomes a testosterone girl shouting match. You may have the blind leading the blind here. I do agree with some other comments though, if indeed this guy was in a military uniform, there should be no reason he made it all the way to the check out stand with out being confronted previously to remove the cover.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2016 7:10 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 07:10:50 -0500

Did not happen.

Response by GySgt Ronald Wasilewski made Jan 12 at 2016 7:20 AM

GySgt Ronald Wasilewski — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 07:20:32 -0500

That was a very stupid act on the young Marine's part. I would prefer to swim in an alligator farm than come up against a SGTMAJ. I had some of the greatest SGTMAJ's and to have one pissed at me would kill me.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2016 7:48 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 07:48:53 -0500

All bull shit, not buying a word of it

Response by SFC Julio Hernandez made Jan 12 at 2016 9:01 AM

SFC Julio Hernandez — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 09:01:48 -0500

If this story is true....I feel the escalation was not necessary.
But if it happened it should be dealt with swiftly and energetically....it is first a Marine base, second a civilian shopping area! Lol!

Smoke that young Marine til his ass begs!!!! And then continue smoking him til he cannot beg.....

Response by PO3 Kevin Murray made Jan 12 at 2016 9:06 AM

PO3 Kevin Murray — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 09:06:40 -0500

My brief, single enlistment half a lifetime ago makes me lean towards the officer grabbing a "decent ranked" NCO and asking him to correct the young Marines actions. However, there is nothing wrong with the officer handling it himself - as long as he uses the right approach. Personally - you follow the lawful orders of your superiors, PERIOD! I was a Machinist Mate in the Navy between 1998 - 2002, forward deployed in Sasebo Japan. While i cant claim "Old Navy", i'm definitely not for all this new age coddling. I understand that the officer has a standard of professionalism to maintain, but it should have NEVER come down to a shouting match. I couldnt imagine that happening at the NEX in Sasebo. SEVERAL NCO's would have told the Jr enlisted man that he was wrong and needs to correct his actions immediately! I shudder to think what may have happened if i used the young enlisted mans dialogue! Sheesh!

Response by SPC Mark McClenny made Jan 12 at 2016 9:28 AM

SPC Mark McClenny — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 09:28:14 -0500

In similar situations when I forgot my cover, the officer/nco/other enlisted simply got my attention, tapped his head and said "Your cover." That's all it took. I removed it and said "Ooops, thanks (sir)."

Response by Cpl Dennis Hudgins made Jan 12 at 2016 10:14 AM

Cpl Dennis Hudgins — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 10:14:00 -0500

As I was a CPL in the Corps, I had times where some Marines under the rank I held, wanted to challenge me. I always kept my cool, and if not in uniform show them my ID to proof who I was. Then would ask to see theirs and ask what unit they were in. Never saw anything like this. Not saying it did not happen, crazier things have happened, but if it did the Officer did not handle himself in accordance to what we were taught. He should have done as I said I did, and then the Marine should have locked up and said yes sir, sorry sir. and did as requested. If the were in uniform the Marine should not have said anything and just took the cover off. I can say though that even when I was in we had those Marines who thought the rules only applied to everyone else and not themselves.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2016 10:22 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 10:22:39 -0500

Marine should not have been wearing his cover indoors. Everyone is focusing on how they corrected the marine instead of how to keep the problem from happening again. Individual discipline is the cause of this whole mess.

Response by Bob Labovitz made Jan 12 at 2016 11:06 AM

Bob Labovitz — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 11:06:02 -0500

I'm a civilian and if a CSM or any other senior NCO tells ME to do something, I'm going to do it. 3 years ROTC may be to blame for that though. The junior officer should have known better as well. Officers need to know better too. As for the mom, I'm sorry but as soon as your son or daughter puts on the uniform, they lose personal space and you need to butt out. I'm backing the senior NCO on this one to the hilt If I'm the Marine's CO.

Response by CPL Chester Cabler made Jan 12 at 2016 3:07 PM

CPL Chester Cabler — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 15:07:02 -0500

Know your D AND C anyone under arms are allowed to wear cover indoors... and a nco or co thatr is wearing a utility belt is considered under arms. if a troop was wearing cover and not under arms them correction and or minor discipline is warranted and justified.

Response by PO1 Donald Hammond made Jan 12 at 2016 3:14 PM

PO1 Donald Hammond — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 15:14:22 -0500

Can't believe this story. No self respecting Marine CSM would "escort" an offending junior enlisted out the door. He would make him drop and give him 5 gabillion and 2 push ups.

Response by CPL Chester Cabler made Jan 12 at 2016 3:24 PM

CPL Chester Cabler — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 15:24:56 -0500

May I also add so that we are clear... that the only other call for cover indoors is in Mess

Response by SGT Craig Northacker made Jan 12 at 2016 3:41 PM

SGT Craig Northacker — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 15:41:54 -0500

The CSM did what he needed to do to stop the nonsense. The young recruit should be completely schooled, and probably discharged, if he can not respect someone coming over and asking him to comply with standing policy. The officer should not have allowed himself to get into a shouting match. Simply take the man's name, unit, and commander. We already know his new rank. The mother had zero to say - in fact, if she was not a dependent she probably should not have been in there to begin with.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jan 12 at 2016 3:50 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 15:50:49 -0500

I won't say it didn't happen, because I have seen some really bizarre stuff in my 34 years of service...but sounds a little far fetched.

Response by SGT Stanley Bass made Jan 12 at 2016 4:11 PM

SGT Stanley Bass — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 16:11:47 -0500

good where the hell is the story at

Response by PO1 Donald Hammond made Jan 12 at 2016 5:04 PM

PO1 Donald Hammond — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 17:04:03 -0500

You seem to be very much on the defensive about this whole story. None of us were there so it is coming in 2nd hand. You have to realize that a lot of this makes no sense. I never knew anybody except total screw ups that would go off like that on an officer as a nublet enlisted. So just cool your jets on trying to convince everyone that this is exactly "how your wife described it". Ease up and discuss the issue you are trying to work on ... people correcting military personnel who are having uniform issues in public.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2016 7:20 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 19:20:54 -0500

There is no right or wrong way the Marine wearing his cover indoors is wrong. As long as the JO doesn't insult his mother all good. The Enlisted Marine getting defensive when he is in the wrong is wrong again.............................we arent in a PC club its the Marines rules and regulations to follow. JO was not disrespectful "take off your cover" good to go.

Response by Vonice LarsenBailey made Jan 12 at 2016 10:51 PM

Vonice LarsenBailey — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 22:51:30 -0500

Even money says the kid is a chapter case awaiting discharge and Mama is there to take him home.

Response by SPC Michael Turner made Jan 12 at 2016 11:01 PM

SPC Michael Turner — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 23:01:38 -0500

He got schooled by the SgtMaj.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2016 1:48 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 13 Jan 2016 01:48:29 -0500

What I see in this PVT's future is a lot of extra duty, extra training and possible partial forfeiture of one or more paychecks!
SGM did a good job of de escalating the situation, after the Officer allowed it to get out of hand.
Back when I was in, the ONLY proper response to an Officer's order was "YES SIR" and immediate compliance with the order.
In more than one situation when I was approached by somebody who's rank was unknown to me, my immediate response was "YES SIR", even though it was "merely" a NCO who was senior to me, or as in a couple of instances, people whom I actually "ranked"! The PVT's response in this instance was completely unacceptable under any circumstances!
As for the Officer, it would seem that some extra training would be in order, hopefully the SGM acquired his unit, etc. after appropriately "dressing down" the PVT and obtaining his information, while having him in the "front lean and rest position".
Apologies Col. Burroughs for my initial response, based as it was upon the "smell test", and previous tales from former Marines of the disciplinary standards of the Corps.

Response by LCpl Christopher Giordano made Jan 13 at 2016 5:43 AM

LCpl Christopher Giordano — Wed, 13 Jan 2016 05:43:06 -0500

No. Absolutely not. That Marine should be N.J.P. ed for " unbecoming a Marine.. "

Response by ENS Dwight Pitman made Jan 13 at 2016 7:24 AM

ENS Dwight Pitman — Wed, 13 Jan 2016 07:24:43 -0500

There seems to be an important element left out of this story. Who was in uniform? Who was not?

Response by Cpl Kevin Walters made Jan 13 at 2016 12:47 PM

Cpl Kevin Walters — Wed, 13 Jan 2016 12:47:43 -0500

Sounds like a case of Affluenza Marine and his enabling mommy. I cant imagine saying "who the fuck are you?" to anyone even a PX worker when I was still waiting to graduate. Hard to believe this story really because I just cant imagine a young RECRUIT doing that so close to the end of boot camp. I was there in 1986 myself and again to see my son graduate this past summer in July. The Junior Officer as the story is told did nothing wrong. I had to tell my son to take his cover off in that same PX just because he was distracted by us being there, seeing he daughter for the first time in months. But as soon as I said it he grabbed it and took it off so it is taught to these guys still. I would of climbed that kid in front of his whole family.

Response by PO2 Richard White made Jan 13 at 2016 6:54 PM

PO2 Richard White — Wed, 13 Jan 2016 18:54:07 -0500

You know you're in the wrong for wearing a cover indoors, regards of who tells you to remove your cover, shut up and do it.

Response by Sgt Paul Bailey made Jan 13 at 2016 7:26 PM

Sgt Paul Bailey — Wed, 13 Jan 2016 19:26:35 -0500

The situation was handled by correctly by the SGTMAJ. He diffused the situation and separated the individuals. I am sure that the young Marine will receive extra duty at a minimum. That said someone also need to talk to the junior officer the proper actions to take when his authority is challenged.

Response by CPL Timothy Butler made Jan 14 at 2016 12:46 AM

CPL Timothy Butler — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 00:46:40 -0500

I was Military Police many moons ago in the Army and I was always taught when an Officer no matter what grade addresses you the first response out of your mouth was Sir. Not Who the F### are you. That was his mistake Army Regs and Marine Regs aren"t that much different when it comes to Customs and Courtsey. The Junior Officer I will assume that he was a brand new Butter bar done what he was supposed to do and make an on the spot correction. Which is what he tried to do. When compliance had not been met he should attempt to find out the young mans unit and notifiy his chane of command of what transpired and let the chain of command deal with it. But UNFORTUNATELY the SMA got involved and Sergeant Majors are Sergeant Majors and will handle things in the most expediant manner which is harsh at time. Should the young marine getr extra duty yes about 14 and 14 would sufice. Nuff said.

Response by SGT David Stead made Jan 14 at 2016 7:06 AM

SGT David Stead — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 07:06:37 -0500

I live in Emerald Isle, NC. I have MCAS Cherry Point, MCAS New River and MCB Camp Lejeune, I can believe it. The attitude of the young Marines I see in the area is a poor reflection of the United States Marine Corp. In the past you could have looked with hard and never found a Marine in public with out true blue Marine Corp bearing. I am sad to say it is no longer the case.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2016 7:52 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 07:52:21 -0500

I have a hard time believing this story to be real!

Additionally, Command Sergeant Major is an Army rank. I know there was a correction but find this adds to the believability of the story. There are two sides to every situation and eight-million stories in a naked city.

Finally, Marines police their own and do a dam fine job of it...

Response by 1SG Chuck Kuhlman made Jan 14 at 2016 9:43 AM

1SG Chuck Kuhlman — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 09:43:48 -0500

Some lady like the junior officer put up with too much crap in the Rhiannon how to throw punch the young Marine Tech is cover off and thrown on the floor and stepped on it

Response by SFC Bobby Mann made Jan 14 at 2016 10:06 AM

SFC Bobby Mann — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 10:06:59 -0500

First the officer should have identified himself that way the enlisted marine will know who's approaching him. Once identification has been made on both sides, the junior officer can then properly correct the marine without consequences of disrespecting an officer.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2016 12:49 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 12:49:59 -0500

Seems to me that the hat wearer was wrong and the officer should have handled it better. Regardless the hat wearer was wrong and should be held accountable. Good order and discipline shall be followed. The question is why no one else approached the hat wearer before the officer and corrected him.

Response by Chris Grimm made Jan 14 at 2016 3:55 PM

Chris Grimm — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 15:55:46 -0500

As a civvy, can some people answer some questions I have?

1. I've seen people saying that the LT should have found an NCO to do a correction. Is there any reason for that? It seems that any rank could correct an issue as mundane as a cover indoors.

2. Why was that young Marine not whooped by the NCO? I'm 22 now and I'd run for my life if I told my dad to fuck off, and I'd expect to not have a job anymore if I told my boss the same thing.

Response by PFC Darisn Evans made Jan 14 at 2016 4:09 PM

PFC Darisn Evans — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 16:09:23 -0500

I was taught, first on not to wear my cover inside of any building. He probably had a relapse,because he was in the FMF. From what I can tell, only Army,Air Force, and Navy personnel allow this tradition of having their covers insid.

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2016 7:58 PM

A1C Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 19:58:13 -0500

Obviously he needs a little refresher training to beat the mamma boy shit out of him.

Response by CDR E Taylor made Jan 14 at 2016 8:20 PM

CDR E Taylor — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 20:20:17 -0500

Hooraaahhhh Marine Corps!!
One thing I have always loved about the Corps....the senior enlisted have kept it the same for over 200 yrs. Poor approach by the JO. He should have bit his tongue....re-addressed the young snot nosed buck and pulled his ID card.
No peepee contest should have occurred. Way to go Sgt Major for diffusing the situation...and I can tell you that by now...that little E1 now nows what being a Marine is all about...since he slept thru boot camp.
CDR, USN, Ret.....FMF

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2016 9:07 PM

1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 21:07:13 -0500

Love it, SGM handling business

Response by SSgt Richie Breese made Jan 14 at 2016 9:14 PM

SSgt Richie Breese — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 21:14:44 -0500

It's a simple matter of the four finger salute to the individual and state, "Uncover!" Trust the individual quickly responds by uncovering. After which call them into your office and issue a verbal warning for a 1st time offense, followed by written corrections for subsequent offenses.

Response by SPC Charles Batchelor made Jan 14 at 2016 9:15 PM

SPC Charles Batchelor — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 21:15:28 -0500

Should like it was handled right to me.

Response by MSG David Metzinger made Jan 14 at 2016 9:47 PM

MSG David Metzinger — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 21:47:01 -0500

Yes extra duty and maybe a article 15 for disrespect to an officer

Response by SPC Frank Orcena Jr made Jan 15 at 2016 12:11 AM

SPC Frank Orcena Jr — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 00:11:29 -0500

Ok now I have read these responses and here is the question reverse the rolls of the Jr and the soup sandwich soldier and how should you respond.

Response by CPL Stephen DeMoss made Jan 15 at 2016 12:48 AM

CPL Stephen DeMoss — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 00:48:22 -0500

I don't know if I believe this for an array of reasons. The first reason being (and I swear all the effing time but there are certain situations where I wouldn't) I wouldn't be standing in line with my mom and just shout out "who the f*** are you." Maybe I'm different but I find that unlikely. Maybe I could see some a-hole doing that if he was with his girlfriend or something just to look tough and impress her, but mom? Nah. Second, as has been mentioned, I don't see him doing all that shopping and making it to the checkout line with his cover on. Third, in the ever increasing PC military today I can't see an NCO dragging someone out by their collar in front of civilians. Maybe when just with other marines but I doubt at the MCX. I could be completely wrong but I generally take stories like this with a grain of salt... by that I mean stories that someone heard from this person who maybe heard it from someone else who saw it happen and may have misinterpreted. The 'literal''hit the deck' was a bit hard for me to fathom. The 'Sergeant Major' supposedly shouted, he didn't launch mortar rounds....
My two cents....

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2016 12:57 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 00:57:02 -0500

The SMaj committed crimes. He assaulted and kidnapped that other Marine. Slam dunk.

Response by MAJ Todd Lamb made Jan 15 at 2016 5:01 AM

MAJ Todd Lamb — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 05:01:15 -0500

I would have torn him an extra you-know-what

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2016 8:15 AM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 08:15:04 -0500

First of all you don't wear your cover in a building. Second of all the junior officer was in his rights to ask the jar head to remove it. The disrespect of the jar head is what perpetuated this event. Junior officer probably shouldn't have gotten into a screaming match with the young jar head. The Sargent major put an end to it as he should have. The young jar head should be running till the cows come home. As far as the mother. He's not a baby. He's a marine.

Response by PO1 George Rae made Jan 15 at 2016 8:58 AM

PO1 George Rae — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 08:58:42 -0500

Sorry, but where I come from a MCX/BX/NEX/PX/etc is a PUBLIC space and wearing a cover inside is permissable.

Response by Cpl Austin Eskew made Jan 15 at 2016 10:53 AM

Cpl Austin Eskew — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 10:53:40 -0500

Yeah what a dumb ass Marine.

Response by MAJ Todd Lamb made Jan 15 at 2016 12:00 PM

MAJ Todd Lamb — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 12:00:43 -0500

Reminds me of when my Brother was stationed at HQMC and was going through a divorce, with predictable results. He went out and got an earring. He forgot he had it on when heading to work, and a Colonel in the elevator told him "Gunny, you're missing an earring"

Response by PFC Gary Wilcoxson made Jan 15 at 2016 12:03 PM

PFC Gary Wilcoxson — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 12:03:45 -0500

I was in THE U.S.ARMY 1974-76 ,This was a time when we were pulling out of Vietnam, if you broke the rules, YOU WERE THE "EXAMPLE" of what happens when you break the rules! CSM was definitely correct in taking this outside, mother was wrong because now this Marine will have to live this down!

Response by PO3 David Bernal made Jan 15 at 2016 1:14 PM

PO3 David Bernal — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 13:14:08 -0500

I had a similar response to a young officer once, but it was a totally different situation lol

Response by SPC Paul Maurice Demoruelle made Jan 15 at 2016 2:10 PM

SPC Paul Maurice Demoruelle — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 14:10:21 -0500

Handled perfectly. LOL. I'd like to have seen what happen outside. Needs to go back through basic training. I bet that gets his mind right then maybe he can call himself a Marine. US active Army was with NATO Forces Europe 87-90. Trained with Marines at Redstone Arsenal. I have nothing but respect for Marines. Most every man in my family as far back as the 1600's were either French Marines, or US Marines. Two lost their lives in WW 2. One on the USS Houston also known as the Galloping Ghost of the Java Coast. Went down with the HMAS Perth in the Java Straits fighting the Japanese.

Response by Sgt Frank Rinchich made Jan 15 at 2016 2:10 PM

Sgt Frank Rinchich — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 14:10:59 -0500

you are right , officers give direct orders, but wearing a cover indoors while not under arms is an act covered under Marine Corps law, so it was a direct lawful order.

Response by Sgt Tammy Wallace made Jan 15 at 2016 5:09 PM

Sgt Tammy Wallace — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 17:09:44 -0500

I seriously doubt this incident happened as described... uh uh, no way, not in MY Marine Corps...there is no way a Marine; squared away or shitbag, would walk into the exchange, shopping up and down the aisle, stand in line and make it to the checkout counter with his daggone cover on...NO WAY!

Response by Sgt Chas Handler made Jan 16 at 2016 4:56 AM

Sgt Chas Handler — Sat, 16 Jan 2016 04:56:28 -0500

I would say the whole story is BS, but then again, as a Marine I can see both people making the err in judgement. And I say both because the only person here that didn't fuck up is the SGTMAJ. Number one I have seen many Marines forget that they have their cover on indoors. On several occasions I have been the Marine, not an officer, just a lowly Marine that has corrected the situation and asked the Marine to remove their cover. During this confrontation I expect the Marine in question to behave how I would. I have a cover on indoors, I am wrong. Therefore I correct the situation and say nothing more. The Marine Officer, junior or not, told the Marine to remove his cover. This no matter how presented, is an order. Any Marine simply resorts to his general orders and comprehends immediately that they say he is to do as he is instructed.

This isn't rocket science devil nuts. The part where the Marine screwed the pooch was retorting to an Officer of Marines. The part where the Officer dicked up, was arguing with the Marine, instead of snatching his ass up and dragging him outside to collect everything he needed to charge him. At least the SGTMAJ had the exp and sense to take control of the situation and correct the original party in the wrong. Many of you will disagree with my take on this and you are the shitheads that either never graduated MCRD or were one of the few that we needed for numbers. :)

Response by Cpl James Rameau made Jan 16 at 2016 6:35 PM

Cpl James Rameau — Sat, 16 Jan 2016 18:35:34 -0500

Why am I reading comments with the term soldier?Original post says young Marine

Response by Sgt Mitchell Sporar made Jan 16 at 2016 8:05 PM

Sgt Mitchell Sporar — Sat, 16 Jan 2016 20:05:53 -0500

1. He shouldn't have been wearing his cover indoors, unless he was under arns.
2. When told to remove his cover, he should have just removed it .. KNOWING he was in the wrong for wearing it indoors.
3. Snapping back "who the f*ck are you?" did nothing but make it worse for him.
4. The Junior officer was wrong for not controlling the situation better. His reaction should have been to identify himself, whip out his ID, then demand the Marine's ID, unitn OIC, and Company Commander's name on the spot.
5. If the Marine refused any of these directives, the LT's next call should have been to PMO with the Marine still there.

Response by Richard Lam made Jan 17 at 2016 3:57 AM

Richard Lam — Sun, 17 Jan 2016 03:57:44 -0500

Quick question...is a beanie also considered a cover? I like to work out with a beanie to trap heat from escaping my head so fast. Would that be breaking rules? Or does that not apply because I'll be wearing gym clothes.

Response by SrA Ben Smith made Jan 17 at 2016 8:01 AM

SrA Ben Smith — Sun, 17 Jan 2016 08:01:46 -0500

Oh Yeah, dumb kid The CSM did it right. And the pfficer had the right to get in the kid face. We follow rule and the chain of command. And I say this all the time mothers should not see their sons in basic training

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2016 3:11 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 17 Jan 2016 15:11:36 -0500

The Officer was right. The only thin the Officer should have said is "I'm not concerned about the families here, by hey are guests in my house." "Police your Marine Sergeant Major before I have him busted into a -E1 for disobedience, disrespect, and Article 37 because I said so!"

These millennial Enlisted need to understand that they don't run shit!!!

Response by Sgt Michael Bodner made Jan 17 at 2016 4:20 PM

Sgt Michael Bodner — Sun, 17 Jan 2016 16:20:57 -0500

Well he did have his mommy to protect him. She can hold his hand on his first deployment.

Response by LCpl Todd Berg made Jan 17 at 2016 4:37 PM

LCpl Todd Berg — Sun, 17 Jan 2016 16:37:31 -0500

Guaranteed

Response by SFC Marshall Janson made Jan 17 at 2016 10:34 PM

SFC Marshall Janson — Sun, 17 Jan 2016 22:34:44 -0500

What!!!! Not a Marine! Never would have thunk it.... And you mean to tell me that the young Marine escaped without a CSM'S boot up his a**? Remarkable.

Response by Cpl Robert Androlowicz made Jan 18 at 2016 1:03 AM

Cpl Robert Androlowicz — Mon, 18 Jan 2016 01:03:09 -0500

One you don't wear your cover indoors unless underarms. 2nd if an officer tells you to remove your cover you do it. 3rd now that the SgtMaj. Stepped in the young Marines life is gonna change and not for the better at that moment. 4th the mom should have been politely told that her son is no longer her son but government property till his enlistment is over with. Till then he obeys the rules period.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jan 18 at 2016 3:57 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Mon, 18 Jan 2016 15:57:52 -0500

I don't get it. Hats on in doors unless you're underarms for MPs (for the Army) is fine. Why get into a yelling match over that?

Response by CPT Cedric Rice made Jan 18 at 2016 4:40 PM

CPT Cedric Rice — Mon, 18 Jan 2016 16:40:12 -0500

yes it was handled correctly by the NCO, he actually probably saved the career of the young marine by taking the situation out of the hands of the officer

Response by CPL Mike Shiplet made Jan 18 at 2016 7:52 PM

CPL Mike Shiplet — Mon, 18 Jan 2016 19:52:06 -0500

It wouldn't happen to a US Army soldier we are trained better.

Response by SFC Brian Vasquez made Jan 19 at 2016 12:11 AM

SFC Brian Vasquez — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 00:11:56 -0500

This is a product of how much our military has degraded since i retired. Everything is soft now and some of the men and women joining the military today bring that street mentality and attitude with them. The leadership structure in the NCO Core is broke...discipline has been degraded guided by social politics and social media steming from society acceptance parameters dumping on the military way of life. The young marine should have listened point blank. A correction is a correction wether from a peer or a leader. The only tact that is suppose to be given is from lower to higher ranking person

Response by CWO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2016 1:31 AM

CWO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 01:31:03 -0500

With tact and professionalism, like everything else a true leader in any branch would do. Especially in a public setting where civilians are present.

Response by SPC Richard Thogode made Jan 19 at 2016 7:45 AM

SPC Richard Thogode — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 07:45:20 -0500

Handled perfectly! The young marine should have apologized immediately and removed his cover.It is taught immediately in basic Training to uncover upon entering a building.This young marine is obviously not motivated and needs a good swift kick in the ass! Command Sergeant Major was on point!

Response by Cpl Bryan Sanderson made Jan 19 at 2016 10:23 AM

Cpl Bryan Sanderson — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 10:23:04 -0500

He was treated the way he shod have been....and made the wrong decision first wearing the cover we all know that from day one and second to react to the junior because of his dumb ass....enough said

Response by GySgt Mark Campbell Sr made Jan 19 at 2016 1:54 PM

GySgt Mark Campbell Sr — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 13:54:22 -0500

Whether the Officer was in uniform or not. He should have identified himself to the young Devil Dog, ask him if he is alone and what unit he is attached to, then ask for his ID Card to confirm he wasn't a POS (Piece Of Shit -Wanna-Be); inform him that wearing your cover indoors is against regulations; unless you are under arms, or current on duty (with duty belt and appropriate device). Allow the young Devil Dog, to make amends and address the officer and introduce whomever he is with. If, he refused, then request he accompany you outside and inform him you are calling the MP's. But, this is Gunnery Sergeant, USMC (Ret.) two cents. You know I would have made an off the wall comment about "In the Old Corps, We didn't wear our covers indoors, what year did you graduate Marine?"

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2016 7:34 AM

LT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 20 Jan 2016 07:34:56 -0500

Fake story....Rally Point is sinking to some seriously low levels...

Response by SPC Duncan Koebrich made Jan 21 at 2016 5:50 PM

SPC Duncan Koebrich — Thu, 21 Jan 2016 17:50:55 -0500

If wisdom is "knowing when to make an exception", and this officer happened to be a wise man, then he elected *not* to make an exception in this case, which is a fine thing for a wise person to do. His execution of "justice" this time may have better expressed itself by finding a way to achieve the result with allowance for the dignity and feelings of everyone involved (to include factoring in by-standers). With the luxury that time affords this reader/writer, I think that the officer could have simply remarked upon how squared away the enlisted man's cover appeared. For his mother, this would be a compliment to the pride she feels, and for the enlisted man it could be a clever hint to remove his cover, look at it, and say with sincerity "Thank you, sir".

Or, so it seems to me.

Response by LCpl Frankie Rush made Feb 18 at 2016 2:31 PM

LCpl Frankie Rush — Thu, 18 Feb 2016 14:31:59 -0500

First: The Junior Officer should have identified himself.
Second: One he identified himself and was giving an order by a superior officer. He should have removed his cover, even if it was for 30 seconds until he got out the door.
Third: When he did not remove his cover and answered with the answered he should have got his name rank and what unit. Went to his commanding officer and dealt with it. Cause that would have been much worse, instead of making a scene of this caliber.
Fourth: The Mother, I could see a mother doing this. But if he was a Marine he would have done informed his mother of this kind of issue of disrespect.
Fifth: If this is the kind of Marines that is coming out of boot camp about respect. Then they need to be some serious changes.

Response by PFC Alexander Oliveira made Feb 29 at 2016 5:27 PM

PFC Alexander Oliveira — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 17:27:11 -0500

mikel, great story, im a contractor on camp Pendleton actually, but am an army vet. I just wanted to make a correction and say that SMA means sergeant major of the army. I think you were looking for SGM which is a regular E9 I got what you were saying tho. im probably the hundredth person to make this correction also, just had to put my two cents in.

on the other side. if a SGM came down near me screaming id just start doing push ups too. old habits die hard

Response by PV2 Glen Lewis made Mar 5 at 2016 4:54 AM

PV2 Glen Lewis — Sat, 05 Mar 2016 04:54:51 -0500

You don't wear a cover in a building. It's one of the rules you're taught in basic training or anyway it was in my company. Even before that my parents taught me it was a sign of disrespect to wear a hat in a building so it was just reinforcement in the service. You'd think the young marine would have known that like he knew not to wear his shirttail outside his pants. Above and beyond that you don't curse in front of a woman, especially not your mother and you sure as hell don't say F*** in front of her and it doesn't even matter if she uses the word herself. If it weren't handled in the manner that it was I'd have genuine concern over the state of our military.

Response by TSgt Melissa Post made Mar 7 at 2016 5:04 AM

TSgt Melissa Post — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 05:04:31 -0500

Wow! Just wow! That was ridiculous. First, how did he make it all the way to checkout without someone saying, "Hey man you still have your cover on." Second, why did he take the defensive and cuss out the Junior Officer, very unprofessional. Third, why did the Junior Officer react in a way that was unbecoming of an officer. Just so many things wrong with this. And on my final note, I would be so embarrassed if my mom said that. Just me though.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Mar 21 at 2016 5:39 PM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Mon, 21 Mar 2016 17:39:52 -0400

If the young man was in the wrong , he should be a man and fess up. Never heard of an enlisted person being overly stupid with an officer, unless he was looking for a way out of the military.

Response by SGT Michael Thorin made Mar 22 at 2016 11:23 AM

SGT Michael Thorin — Tue, 22 Mar 2016 11:23:08 -0400

I hope this does not step on any toes, but if toes just happen to be where I am putting my foot at that particular moment then it can't be helped, LOL.

I get the feeling that this post was more of a "if it had happened this way, do you think it was handled correctly?" and not a "is this a credible story?" type post.

That being said, every NCO and officer of the armed forces has faced or will face a troop who is outside of the regs and does not show respect. It happens.

Admittedly, far less likely in the Marines, but we do have disgruntled troops who may be pushing buttons for craps and giggles.

The decision for the leaders is how to deal with these scenarios.

Stories like this provide opportunities to evaluate what you would do under similar circumstances.

If you were the junior enlisted, would you have even had the cover on? If so (because we are not all perfect), what should your response be?

If you were the junior officer and you saw this, what should your correct on the spot correction be? If the young private started a confrontation, what should you do to keep it from being "righteous indignation" because, while you are correct, you are letting a private cause you to lose your military bearings so badly that a CSM has to stop the public display of disrespect. Could you now, at this time, use this story to prepare on how to handle a similar situation should it arise, considering both presented and assumed information?

No assumptions or reflections on the CSM, he's never wrong.

We can't prepare for everything, but stories like this, that are intended to cause us to think, can at least help us to consider possible encounters which we may have never considered, and to prepare a calculated response to them.

Response by LCpl Christopher Dillon made Sep 3 at 2016 11:31 AM

LCpl Christopher Dillon — Sat, 03 Sep 2016 11:31:28 -0400

This did not happen...

Response by Lazaro Alcazar made Sep 3 at 2016 11:36 AM

Lazaro Alcazar — Sat, 03 Sep 2016 11:36:55 -0400

I have loved to witness this situation... At first it made me laugh as I read the event... My point of view in general for any military branch personal not to say for a member of the Marines... The attitude of the Superior was correct... I have a close idea of what I done too... Soldiers live by the code of respect of their uniforms... I have loved to wore one with all honor... Well I did when I was an officer for the security of the O'Hare airport here in Chicago... And even then there was not a day I wore it clean pressed and with respect...

Response by Cpl Francis Meech made Sep 3 at 2016 2:50 PM

Cpl Francis Meech — Sat, 03 Sep 2016 14:50:12 -0400

This story is pure BS.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Sep 3 at 2016 5:29 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Sat, 03 Sep 2016 17:29:18 -0400

I know I have already responded, but I don't know what I typed. So if I was in uniform excluding when I am on duty as an MP, my head gear comes off. That is the rule or reg in army regulation. I might not like but I must enforce it. If I am wearing civilian clothes I will leave my head gear on unless there is a posted rule or I am in an area like a memorial or place of worship. Yesterday I wore my head in the commissary while wearing civilian attire and not one person said anything to me.

Response by SA Jim Arnold made Sep 3 at 2016 7:08 PM

SA Jim Arnold — Sat, 03 Sep 2016 19:08:34 -0400

I don't feel a cover on the inside is appropriate.

Response by FN Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2016 7:16 PM

FN Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 03 Sep 2016 19:16:03 -0400

I think that the younger Marine should of respected the other Marines rank. Especially if he was just being nice about it. Unfortunately there's people like that who do get mad over being corrected. I had a situation where my collar devices were messed up, I asked how to fix them and did not get an answer but got laughed at. I walked away and asked someone else to help and than corrected them.

Response by 1SG Dennis Jones made Sep 3 at 2016 8:08 PM

1SG Dennis Jones — Sat, 03 Sep 2016 20:08:09 -0400

The Sgt Maj was right to do what he did , I would have done the same

Response by SGT Robert George made Sep 3 at 2016 8:39 PM

SGT Robert George — Sat, 03 Sep 2016 20:39:45 -0400

The young Marine probably testing his limits will never forget that episode and most likely straiten up and fly right !!!

Response by FN Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2016 8:45 PM

FN Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 03 Sep 2016 20:45:36 -0400

Response by Maj Marty Hogan made Sep 3 at 2016 10:06 PM

Maj Marty Hogan — Sat, 03 Sep 2016 22:06:02 -0400

Handled badly all the way around. Would have got his name and where he worked and went to his boss. Jr O and SGT Major yelling in a public forum is not that much better. Unprofessional in public. My opinion.

Response by SGT Pete Masullo made Sep 4 at 2016 12:26 PM

SGT Pete Masullo — Sun, 04 Sep 2016 12:26:06 -0400

Moving past possible embellishment likely to occur over repeats of the story...I assume the enlisted Marine was fairly young and green and the junior Marine officer was likely the same, just with a bit more luster on his collar. Here is the recipe for disaster: take two young, gawky Marines, one enlisted and one officer while keeping one mother and a SM in reserve ...sprinkle the officer with more authority than he can hold and blend the officer, enlisted Marine, SM and mom together in a recreational container. Tasty.

Response by Sgt David G Duchesneau made Sep 4 at 2016 12:35 PM

Sgt David G Duchesneau — Sun, 04 Sep 2016 12:35:36 -0400

You know, back in the old days, shit, I'm really dating myself here, this would of never of happened in the first place. But I have no idea why it happens now. Marine Corps Policy and etiquette has always been you just don't wear a cover inside a building period. That's it, no discussion! WTF-over!

Response by SGT Jamie Gregory made Sep 7 at 2016 8:54 PM

SGT Jamie Gregory — Wed, 07 Sep 2016 20:54:49 -0400

In the Army you are only allowed cover indoors unless you are reporting for pay (When we got paid cash.) Under arms for security and funeral detail.

Response by ENS Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 11 at 2016 2:30 AM

ENS Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 11 Sep 2016 02:30:02 -0400

O.o Stranger than fiction.

Response by SSgt Christian Lopez made Sep 13 at 2016 3:45 PM

SSgt Christian Lopez — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 15:45:38 -0400

Extra duty? No there will be a massacre lol. That kid was in the wrong, all the way so was the LT because that's who probably was the officer. He acted like a little kid and got treated like a little kid. Sergeant Major did the right thing as a senior enlisted which is what's needed nowadays.

Response by SSgt Michael Zondlo made Sep 13 at 2016 7:28 PM

SSgt Michael Zondlo — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 19:28:42 -0400

oh, crap is the only thing i can think of concerning this - that "young" Marine ain't gonna like life fora WHILE!!!!! and "mommy" ain't gonna see him for a while either. as for the "young" officer type - oh, i'm sure he's gonna get some good closed door counseling and the CSM will be part of that also. ouch to both. but i do like the part about the "silence" after he said something.

Response by Sgt Mark Wiliams made Sep 13 at 2016 9:38 PM

Sgt Mark Wiliams — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 21:38:01 -0400

does anyone actually believe this ?

Response by CPT Jerry Bell made Sep 13 at 2016 10:07 PM

CPT Jerry Bell — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 22:07:41 -0400

Absolutely

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2016 10:08 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 22:08:10 -0400

The marine in line was wrong right off the bat, another enlisted decided to do what was rightand asked him to remove his cover in doors, which is right, civilian or not asking someone who the f@$k are you means he just lost his manners when we're suppose to be the example for the people, that was a poor decision on the marines behalf

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2016 10:21 PM

LCpl Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 22:21:52 -0400

As a junior marine myself, I know just to listen to anyone higher than you. You don't rate so why try.

Response by Sgt Andrew Gabryszak made Sep 13 at 2016 10:55 PM

Sgt Andrew Gabryszak — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 22:55:52 -0400

Something doesn't sound right here....If a young Marine is in the wrong, no way he is going to say Who the F are you.....If he did, I hope he gets run up.

Response by SP6 Stephen Podymaitis made Sep 14 at 2016 12:13 AM

SP6 Stephen Podymaitis — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 00:13:12 -0400

I believe this was handled properly as that is the job of a SGM he is not to correct the officer as that will come to his chain of command. There were probably more and lower ranked NCO's that should have done this first thank you SGM for upholding the discipline in the military.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2016 12:13 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 00:13:25 -0400

I've seen some stupid in my almost 7 years in the guard including a deployment and I can see something like this happening with how the new soldiers are being treated from day one. I've seen fresh from basic/boot camp soldiers do some incredibly stupid thing that I thought simply disgraceful, only to find out they were never taught better. Basic has become to relaxed due to new policies, speaking from the army standpoint at least.

Now the marine should have never asked any questions about who asked him to remove his cover and should simply have turned around to identify rank and said "thank you sir". Being questioned in a very rude and extremely unprofessional manner like that I can understand why the office may have gotten pissy about it. Full out shouting match though again unprofessional. Now the sma I would say handled it very well by quickly defusing the situation. The mother should have kept her mouth shut and realized she raised a disrespectful asshat.

I myself am guilty on occasion or two to have forgotten my cover entering a building. I was asked to remove my cover and promptly did so realizing I had forgotten to and thanked the person who asked, with proper military greetings of course.

Regardless of rank if someone respectfully corrects you for a uniform infraction such as that you should fix yourself and thank them. I've seen senior nco's and senior officers be corrected. It was done respectfully and said personnel corrected themselves and thanked the person that pointed out what was wrong. The end of the day we all wear the same uniform and are all brothers/sisters in arms and should look out for each other. Even if it is something as small as a minor uniform infraction

Response by SPC Brody Vidrine made Sep 14 at 2016 1:56 AM

SPC Brody Vidrine — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 01:56:45 -0400

The young marine was dead wrong. He should have gotten a boot party, and the SM Would have been completely within his rights if he would have beaten him.

Response by Cpl Elijah Gordon made Sep 14 at 2016 12:00 PM

Cpl Elijah Gordon — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 12:00:19 -0400

The Marine was most likely in civilian clothes with a hat (cover) on as I cannot see any circumstance a Marine would wear his cover indoors, not armed. It just doesn't purposefully happen.

Now here is where it gets fun. If both Marines were in civilian clothes, no one is giving ground until one or the other proves they are out-ranked. Even then, if one is a grunt and one a POG, the grunt would only give-in if the other significantly outranked him. The situation was compounded by him not wanting to be a bitch in front of his mom. I've been in this situation a few times off base. They started going tit-for-tat in a testosterone match and SgtMaj, who outranks by shear power everyone involved, set thing straight by establishing him as the Alpha Dog.

Hat marine was wrong by the way. The rules say "off" when in civilian attire, on a base.

Response by MIDN 4/C Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2016 1:23 PM

MIDN 4/C Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 13:23:57 -0400

I just got out of the Young Marine Unit based on Camp Pendleton as the Unit 1stSgt and I would personally be appalled if this story is true and if it was one of my Young Marines. You never wear a cover indoors and above all else you never disrespect your superiors especially not US Marines or any other service member. (Please note there are four units on Camp Pendlton :Camp Pendleton, Eagle, Southeast County, and Saddleback. I belonged to Camp Pendleton Young Marines.)

Response by LCpl Scott Ryder made Sep 14 at 2016 1:40 PM

LCpl Scott Ryder — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 13:40:47 -0400

Dont wear your cover indoors and stupid shit wont happen to you devil dog.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2016 3:19 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 15:19:52 -0400

With Tact.

Response by SPC Louis Copechal made Sep 14 at 2016 4:26 PM

SPC Louis Copechal — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 16:26:21 -0400

I sense barracks detail happened didn't it? If so that's what happens when you pi$$ off a higher ranking!

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2016 4:43 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 16:43:32 -0400

Reminds me when I was enlisted at Maxwell AFB, home Air University and more officers than should be allowed at one place. I was an E5 and I quietly addressed a brand new officer in the parking lot of the PX that she was wearing her flight cap backwards. She started screaming at me about with her thick hair it fit better and who was I as an enlisted person to tell her how to wear her uniform. My polite, quiet, comment to her became a raging, shout fest with her doing all the shouting. Everyone was watching as she wrote down my name and promised me that this was not the end of it. She finished my railing and the Commandant of Air University, a two-star proceeded to give her a railing she would never forget. The benefit for me was he remembered my name and endorsed me when it was time for me to apply for commissioning.

The Marine whose mother got involved may not have extra duty, but life will not be pleasant with the reputation he will get for being a mama's boy. I suspect there is less to the story and we are getting the embellished version especially since I don't know many sons, Marine or not who uses that type of language in front of their mother without a railing from mom.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2016 5:14 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 17:14:28 -0400

The junior officer should have simply placed the cover-wearing POG into the position of attention, removed said cover, and then asked who his 1SG was.....and, from there, leave it in the capable hands of his unit's leadership.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2016 5:38 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 17:38:02 -0400

i hope so

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Sep 14 at 2016 5:50 PM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 17:50:25 -0400

So first off I doubt this actually happened.

If this happened I would say the Junior Marine was in the wrong and the Officer lost the high ground by dropping to his level.

The Sgt Maj did the right thing by deescalating the situation and removing the young Marine.

But I have some serious doubts that this is more than a made up story.

Response by PO2 Amanda Morgan made Sep 14 at 2016 6:05 PM

PO2 Amanda Morgan — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 18:05:50 -0400

Do the marines not have a word like Shipmate to let each other no when they are jacked up?
I would be embarrassed for the young marine since he was with his family but he should have realized he was jacked up and corrected himself and keeped it moving

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2016 6:12 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 18:12:39 -0400

SGM was right. Young Marine will have a rough time in the service with an interfering mother.

Response by SSG Doug Brown made Sep 14 at 2016 6:26 PM

SSG Doug Brown — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 18:26:31 -0400

I know back in the day if I had mouthed off to an officer with my mother present the biggest problem would have been my mother as she would have knocked me on my A$$ for talking like that. I grew up in a military family and needless to say even before any of us enlisted we already knew some of what to do and more importantly NOT to do.
The SGM did the right thing by intervening and de-escalating the situation quickly.
In regards to questions of the veracity of this topic, while there may be some bit of embellishment here and there, I honestly would not be surprised if it was in fact truthful given the fact the way I see kids coming up nowadays with little if any respect for authority. I attribute that to a combination of now living in an "enlightened society" were the old ways of correcting our young can be easily construed as criminal and thus many parents are flat out frustrated with their hands being tied and then at the other end of the spectrum too many parents who never should have had kids in the first place. Where I live I see an awful lot of kids out of control due to the negligence/ignorance on the part of the parents and thus it makes for almost weekly phone calls from me to CPS but before I prattle on I will leave that for another time.

Response by 1SG Patrick Sims made Sep 14 at 2016 7:33 PM

1SG Patrick Sims — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 19:33:32 -0400

While I don't approve of putting hand on the troops, what the CSM did was right. In addition, the junior officer should have known better than get into a shouting match with an enlisted man. He has to be above such things-----Where0in-the-hell did he think he was---back on the block? As for the little pick that instigated this entire thing---I hope the CSM made him see the error of his ways----and I don't give a shit what his mommy had to say.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2016 7:46 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 19:46:25 -0400

I've witnessed similar idiocy but never in the post PX. Small PX's on training bases like Yakima, NTC and JRTC seem to invite it. The last time I dealt with it I escorted the "soldiers" outside and over to the dumpsterfor a memorable ass chewing - the smell from the dumpster added to my colorful language made the while thing perfect.

Had one very young and very new NCO (CPL) get a snootfull and try to correct a CPT (one of my company commanders) in the clothing sales store. Didn't end well for him as my CSM got to him before the young CPT (who was in the right) went off.

45/45 and half a month for two months was a valuable learning experience for the former NCO. Seems his CSM and my CSM were friends and their CDR took a dinner view of such shenanigans than even I did.

Response by SCPO John-florida Killin made Sep 14 at 2016 7:48 PM

SCPO John-florida Killin — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 19:48:25 -0400

The guy with the cover gets office hours and NJP. If the officer was in civilian clothes, he should have just minded his own business...this was no big deal that required intervention. If he felt so compelled to handle this himself, he should have presented the offending party with his ID card, verbally identified himself by rank, and issued the order.

Response by Cpl Greg Rock made Sep 14 at 2016 8:03 PM

Cpl Greg Rock — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 20:03:38 -0400

One critical point needs clarifying...sorry it if already has, but I can't anything about.

By "young Marine," are we talking about a bona-fide US Marine aged 18 or 19, or are we talking about a teenager who is a member of the Young Marines, a social activity for kids who generally have some interest in being a Marine one day and like to learn about the history, traditions, jargon, etc etc, of the Marine Corps (and who often go on field trips to Marine Corps installations, to the dismay of junior enlisted Marines such as myself way back when, who get stuck chaperoning them or putting on educational exhibits).

I figure it must be the latter. For one thing, I cannot imagine a young and (presumably) very junior enlisted Marine talking to a commissioned officer like that, any more than I can imagine the officer in that scenario doing anything other than Article 15 his ass for insubordination/disrespect so fast as to make his fuzzy little head spin. Anybody he was a real Marine, I can't imagine a Sergeant Major escorting him out of that situation.

Response by PO3 Mack McLendon made Sep 14 at 2016 8:12 PM

PO3 Mack McLendon — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 20:12:40 -0400

When the young Marine smarted off to the junior officer, the junior officer would have been totally within his rights to have decked him.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2016 10:23 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 22:23:16 -0400

yeah, that little shit deserves everything he gets. 45 days at least, for not knowing his place.

Response by SSgt Scotty Marks made Sep 14 at 2016 10:56 PM

SSgt Scotty Marks — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 22:56:19 -0400

I don't believe this ever happened.

Response by CW3 Harvey K. made Sep 14 at 2016 10:59 PM

CW3 Harvey K. — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 22:59:32 -0400

Damn! Back in the old Corps, we rankers couldn't wait to get under a roof and doff our covers so we would not have to salute (unless "under arms" of course).

Response by CPL Sterling Kemp made Sep 14 at 2016 11:14 PM

CPL Sterling Kemp — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 23:14:20 -0400

Not a marine but when I got out of OUST my cord (infantry) was fucked up and I was spot corrected in the PX with my father. Hey corrected me and said wear that shit with pride. I respected that and him for it.

Response by SSgt Chuck “Gunz” Gundlach USMC Ret., MBA made Sep 14 at 2016 11:48 PM

SSgt Chuck “Gunz” Gundlach USMC Ret., MBA — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 23:48:54 -0400

This skit sounds fake...maybe an embellished minor skirmish.

Response by PO2 Robert Hetzel made Sep 14 at 2016 11:54 PM

PO2 Robert Hetzel — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 23:54:00 -0400

From a Seabee's point of view the young marine has lots of extra duty in his future. The junior officer might get a bit of training on escalating a situation that could have avoided. As far as Old Salty's conduct I think the young marine got off easy.

Response by SFC James Jones made Sep 15 at 2016 6:56 AM

SFC James Jones — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 06:56:47 -0400

If this incident happened as stated in find nothing wrong with the Sgt SgtMaj yanking the turd up. In an incident of this nature the counseling should have consisted of the boot having his skull crushed. I know it isn't politicaly correct. I don't care.

Response by PFC Charles Sanders made Sep 15 at 2016 7:11 AM

PFC Charles Sanders — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 07:11:41 -0400

All I know is that if I had done that as a young PFC in the Army my ass would've been grass…

Response by SPC Michael Mcevoy Sr. made Sep 15 at 2016 7:43 AM

SPC Michael Mcevoy Sr. — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 07:43:25 -0400

Was the junior officer in uniform for the Marine to identify that fact. Other wise the officer should have approached the young Marine announcing his name and rank, then proceed in telling the Marine about the fact that you don't wear your cover indoors.

Response by SFC Kenneth G. made Sep 15 at 2016 7:56 AM

SFC Kenneth G. — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 07:56:13 -0400

The young Marine should have followed protocol in the first place by not wearing cover in the MCX. When the officer approached him and asked him to remove the cover, he should have Identified himself and then proceeded to give the request. As far as the Sergeant Major, he should have pulled both of them to a place out of the way and spoke to them in a professional manner instead of just raising his voice and scaring the crap out of all of the civilians around the situation. The first at fault was the young marine, but leadership was jeopardized by both the officer and the Sergeant Major with their actions of, argument by the officer and losing his bearing by the Sergeant Major.

Response by PO1 Mac Hayes made Sep 15 at 2016 8:27 AM

PO1 Mac Hayes — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 08:27:06 -0400

There is the "other" way, then there is the Corp way!!!

Response by SFC Joseph Thwaites made Sep 15 at 2016 9:14 AM

SFC Joseph Thwaites — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 09:14:34 -0400

I'm gonna start by using the term "military member" so no one gets offended. People keep calling him a "Junior Officer" does that even matter? The young Marine showed disrespect. Every service member has the right and responsibilitie to make a uniform correction regardless of rank as long as he/she is tactful. When I read the story I didn't see how the officer approached the SM in question. He should have removed the cover and that would have been the end of story. It bothers me to see anyone wear a cover inside even in civilian clothes but as far as I know there is nothing to say they can't except for manners.

Response by SN Peter Stella made Sep 15 at 2016 9:16 AM

SN Peter Stella — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 09:16:36 -0400

Reminds me of the time I walked up to a butter bar who was checking out the flight line and had his cover on - outdoors but in a no cover area near operational aircraft. I an Airman at the time politely said- "Excuse me Sir but would you please remove your cover etc." He yelled at me though I was giving him an order above my pay grade- So I walked slowly into my line shack and explained to a LT (capt for you non navy guys) 2 paygrades above the 2nd LT what had happenned. The LT said he would take care of it- I went about my business exiting the office at the end of line shack toward the center- the LT went out the opposite door to where the 2nd LT was standing to explain to him why a guy way above his paygrade has a standing order to remove your cover on the flight line. No shouting on my part lol

Response by Cpl Frank Roberts made Sep 15 at 2016 9:43 AM

Cpl Frank Roberts — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 09:43:56 -0400

This sounds like one of those Marine Corps urban legends, like the private who gets office hours kicking over a trash can, flopping open his wallet, and yelling, "Beam me up, Scotty, I'm in a world of shit." There are all kinds of stories throughout the Corps like this.

Response by Cpl John Moss made Sep 15 at 2016 9:49 AM

Cpl John Moss — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 09:49:04 -0400

When I was in the Corps., we were taught to respect the rank even if you don't respect the man. The junior officer could have brought the Marine up on charges and the young man would have lost. The Sargent Major saved the young Marine a lot of trouble.

Response by James White made Sep 15 at 2016 9:50 AM

James White — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 09:50:25 -0400

My father was a tank commander in the Army in the Korean conflict, my brother joined the Marines in 75 and was considered a Vietnam vet. However they both had enough respect and discipline to remove their cover indoors, today's recruits are wusses and need to learn their place. They are babied through basic and cannot learn their place in the ranks, just ask R.LEE Ermy.

Response by SP6 Joseph Lane made Sep 15 at 2016 9:51 AM

SP6 Joseph Lane — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 09:51:42 -0400

The officer perhaps didn't go get the CSM to correct that marine because he couldn't correct that. It is highly possible he did it because he knows CSMs and 1Sgts usually have that rare technique of handling such situations.
My mama wouldn't have said anything except to agree with them handling the situation.
She would most likely remind me that the CSM or officer was my mamma for the moment.

Response by PO1 Cecil Massey made Sep 15 at 2016 10:14 AM

PO1 Cecil Massey — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 10:14:52 -0400

the zero should have known you do not wear your cover indoors , however the service member should have been a bit more respectful

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2016 11:08 AM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 11:08:09 -0400

The marine is hanging out with his mom that show he was probably off duty. The question is if he was off duty and hanging out with his mom, wouldn't he rather be in civvies? They both should have handled it better in front of families. The All mighty SgtMaj did it right. TO me it sounds like both the junior marine and the Lt were boots, and should get the boot of the year ribbon.

Response by TSgt Denise Moody made Sep 15 at 2016 12:26 PM

TSgt Denise Moody — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 12:26:36 -0400

OMG! Assuming it's true...both the junior officer and the young marine should have some extra duty.

Response by Sgt Dallas D'Angelo-Gary made Sep 15 at 2016 12:47 PM

Sgt Dallas D'Angelo-Gary — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 12:47:58 -0400

The young Marine was obviously a trainee that needed a lesson. He got one.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2016 1:01 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 13:01:58 -0400

I was stationed on Pendleton for 4 yrs as an AGR. I've seen authority exercised by Marines there but not to this extent.

Not saying it did or didn't happen.

Response by Sgt Paul Mason made Sep 15 at 2016 1:32 PM

Sgt Paul Mason — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 13:32:15 -0400

Every Marine in the place would have said something to him about his cover, unless he was under arms, at which time, knowing he was in error, he would have removed his cover; additionally I can't imagine a young enlisted man getting into a screaming match with an Officer (junior or otherwise) in the Exchange. I agree with Sgt Kennedy, this doesn't pass the sniff test.

Given that, if this went down as described, the young Marine will probably get Office Hours and the young Lt will be in front of his CO tomorrow. I applaud the SgtMaj for doing what needed to be done....it's probably why he's a Sergeant Major :-)

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2016 2:29 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 14:29:07 -0400

I'm sorry but I do not believe this story whatsoever. There's no way in hell that kid would have made it through basic with such disrespect to an officer and no common sense unless the marine corps just totally don't give a shit about the quality of marines they mold.

Response by TSgt Robert Danley made Sep 15 at 2016 3:40 PM

TSgt Robert Danley — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 15:40:56 -0400

When asked "who the f*(k are you?" (and I guess this officer was in civilian clothes) that's when you whip out the DD form 2 and identify yourself.

Response by MSG Andy Cristofaro made Sep 15 at 2016 3:41 PM

MSG Andy Cristofaro — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 15:41:59 -0400

When I encountered a soldier/officer out of uniform, I always whispered for him/her to get their uniform in shape. No need to get loud about it.

Response by PO3 Gary Holstein Jr. made Sep 15 at 2016 5:24 PM

PO3 Gary Holstein Jr. — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 17:24:17 -0400

I have seen this same thing in a Naval bar in Pearl Harbor! The young Marine came in ran his mouth about how he would hurt any Sailor well let's just say a Seal didn't like his Rhetoric!!!

Response by Cpl Thomas Woods made Sep 15 at 2016 5:30 PM

Cpl Thomas Woods — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 17:30:01 -0400

First:....a firm but discrete "Hey Marine...." Second....Upon observing brightwork on his collar, I would have politely, and most importantly DISCRETELY said "Cover Sir?" in a manner not to attract any attention. Third I would have expected him to be a little bit affronted about being "caught" by an enlisted man, and would have expected a response, though a gentlemanly one. Courtesy, or the lack thereof reaps what it sows.....I used to get a chuckle out of ambushing Army Medical Officers outside the PX at Fort Sam Houston, or outside the hospital. I did it politely, knowing that Sgt. Maj. Caldwell would be getting another phone call....One Captain once informed me that the Army doesn't salute at the PX. My response to him was "Captain(loved calling them by their rank), Marines do not lower our standards based upon the company we keep."

Response by PO1 Matthew Meyer made Sep 15 at 2016 6:24 PM

PO1 Matthew Meyer — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 18:24:30 -0400

If that boy wants to play Marine then he should learn a little thing about respect and etiquette. You don't join the Young Marines and then disrespect another person, regardless of rank or affiliation.

Response by PO3 Adam Finley made Sep 15 at 2016 6:27 PM

PO3 Adam Finley — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 18:27:08 -0400

This story was not odd, pretty sure something like this could happen. The officer should have corrected the junior marin3 in private....pulled him aside. Then if more corrective action is needed well then put your boot in the boots tail end.

Response by Sgt David Levy made Sep 15 at 2016 7:11 PM

Sgt David Levy — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 19:11:11 -0400

Was this a young Marine as in a junior service member or a junior Marine as in the program for children? Not sure why an adult Marine would have their mother there?

Response by SMSgt Mike Wood made Sep 15 at 2016 7:40 PM

SMSgt Mike Wood — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 19:40:02 -0400

Was in the Army for the first 10 years of my career. Then 3 years Army Res. The next 20 were all Air Force Res. or Active, depending on conflict. The point is while in the Army I was jacked pretty good while stationed on Okinawa (The Rock) for entering a BX with my cover on. Never forgot it. While in the Air Force, you would see at least one person under cover in the PX. They were reminded and that was it. Different branches, different discipline.

Response by SSgt Christopher Stogdill made Sep 15 at 2016 8:21 PM

SSgt Christopher Stogdill — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 20:21:16 -0400

I've seen plenty of stupidity with regards to wearing a "cover". As an Airman serving on Army installations, I've made plenty of blunders. It was quite common at the time for basically any "ceiling" (indoors, hangars, awnings, etc.) to be no-hat areas......at least on Air Force installations. I was with a buddy, in uniform, with our berets (1C4's) tucked into our thigh pockets when we were stopped by a junior Army officer for not wearing the cover. We answered because we were under a "ceiling" and the officer told us something to the effect of, "not on this post".

No big deal...we simply put on our berets, saluted the officer (again) and carried on. He was respectful, we were respectful, and it wasn't a big deal.

Assuming everything in the OP was accurate, the issue wasn't wearing a cover indoors. The issue was terrible communication, pretty much all around. In my personal experience most all real problems between people tend to stem from poor communication.

Response by SGT Michael Wade made Sep 15 at 2016 8:22 PM

SGT Michael Wade — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 20:22:25 -0400

.. This reminds me of a similar experience I had in Afghanistan.. Was assigned to the chow hall as an ID checker.. My only job was to check IDs and ask that people remover their head gear.. A special forces member walks in with his baseball cap on... In uniform.... And shows his ID but didn't remove his cap.. I was just a pfc.. I politely asked him to remove his cap.. Ignored.. I said it a bit loader thinking he didn't hear.. He turned and looked at me and told me that he didn't have to do shit I said.. At that point the Sgt Major in line behind him lost his shit.. Laid into this guy without hesitation.. Can't repeat everything he said but it came to a point of you will take it off or I will drag you outside and show you that you're not as special as you think.. Cap removed.. Scared the shit out of me.. Lol

Response by Sgt Murray Shoulders made Sep 15 at 2016 8:24 PM

Sgt Murray Shoulders — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 20:24:54 -0400

It was handled properly by the Sgt Major.

Response by SSgt Joe R Ford made Sep 16 at 2016 1:17 AM

SSgt Joe R Ford — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 01:17:36 -0400

This fricking boot should have immediately been arrested by MP's for insubordination. Period. A Marine does NOT run his mouth at an Officer.

Response by SGT Thomas LaRochelle made Sep 16 at 2016 2:03 AM

SGT Thomas LaRochelle — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 02:03:49 -0400

Insubordination for sure. This so-called-Marine sounds to be a punk. The appropriate answer would have been...Yes Sir, sorry sir, won't happen again sir. Instead, this punk decides he is going to show off in front of his mom and lock horns with an officer. He has no respect.

Response by PO2 Robert Johnson made Sep 16 at 2016 2:48 AM

PO2 Robert Johnson — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 02:48:17 -0400

I had a similar encounter, handled differently with a different outcome. The clinic at Pt. Mugu, CA had instructed the corpsman to enforce the uniform standards on our patients. Mainly removing covers not just because it was inside but a place where people have died. That morning as an E-4 corrected an E-2 who was heading to the audio booth. I saw him pass the commander of all three bases comprising Naval Base Ventura County complex who had his cover on. After respectfully requesting the CO to remove his cover and responding to his question why with a verbatim response from the regs with the addition of out of respect for the ill, injured and deceased. I was told to go on my way. Halfway back the my office the CO yelled my name and flipped shit on me. After that I went to our Officer in Charge who had tasked us that morning to enforce the standards. Needless to say he was not happy but after being joined by the pharmacy tech laughing her ass of about how I had handled it the base CO called. My OIC told him what squadrob I was with but suggested that he not tell anyone else on base that he was corrected by an E-4 who handled it correctly while he acted unbecoming. I love prior enlisted officers! P.S. The base CO had the pleasure of presenting me with an award a month later and didn't realize hwo I was till the photo. His look...priceless.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2016 3:08 AM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 03:08:45 -0400

The only one that did anything right was the Sergeant Major.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2016 4:26 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 04:26:42 -0400

I lived on base for 12 mo, then left... this is a common occurrence, I had to correct officers as well (parking in handicap spots). I now live off post in peace!

Response by PO2 William Keys made Sep 16 at 2016 5:33 AM

PO2 William Keys — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 05:33:27 -0400

The 1st rule of leadership is Praise in public and admonish in private, The E9 and JO only should've identified the Marine by has name tag, used their resources to find out his command, summoned the marine to their offices, and dealt with him there, in private. But before that, at the MCX the JO should've told the E9 (in a very calm voice) to stand down. But since the E9 was also in violation of rule 1, he also should've been counselled (alone) by the JO. But, as we all know, JO's are terrified of any enlisted rank superior to an E7.

Response by Barry Davidson made Sep 16 at 2016 8:09 AM

Barry Davidson — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 08:09:58 -0400

I never got to serve, but I did grow up on military bases. In the kinder, gentler world of military life, post-Clinton administration PC witch hunts, I can see this happening. (Please don't take that as an insult. The military has fought the good fight to keep liberals in Congress from mucking up too many things.) Most civilians wouldn't even recognize the scenario. They'd see it as some mukity-much mid-level executive being an ass to a mail room clerk. They'd be wrong because that Sergeants Major is more like the right hand of God with a will of steel, and not an HR manager.

Anyway, it was handled poorly. Mom or no mom, you just don't pop off like that - even in the civilian world. He probably didn't even think about it, just went into "I'm a brave Marine and I can't show weakness in front of mommy" mode. The junior officer is probably in need of some mentoring. Any soldier seeing him like that will lose respect for him. Like the old saying, "Never issue an order you know will not be followed," this one falls under, "Never make an ass of yourself in front of your men." (Perhaps none of his men were there, but the grapevine on base is one of the truly FTL forms of communication.)

I foresee extra duties for both parties. The junior officer, if he can't be trained, there's always a nice FOBBIT position somewhere or even the PIO office.

Response by Sgt Darin Booher made Sep 16 at 2016 8:14 AM

Sgt Darin Booher — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 08:14:17 -0400

Well done SgtMaj. Put that young marine in check.. This is still the Marine Corps, you WILL follow the rules and regs as well as years of tradition..
-0331 Guns Up
Semper Fi

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2016 8:27 AM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 08:27:27 -0400

Thorough ass beating

Response by GySgt Richard McCrary made Sep 16 at 2016 9:05 AM

GySgt Richard McCrary — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 09:05:53 -0400

I sort of find this one hard to believe, not impossible but not likely, unless they were in civilian attire, then very plausible with not enough information to really say why it happened. If they were in uniform, then the Jr. Marine needs to have his ass handed to him on a platter. If in civilian attire, the Jr. Marine is still at fault because he knows he should not be wearing his cover indoors. But, did the Lt.(assumed) identify himself? I have seen some Lt's. that looked like 15 year olds and I wanted to ask them if their mom knew where they were. Either way, the Jr. Marine should have known better and really should watch his mouth, which he will pay for.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2016 9:14 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 09:14:47 -0400

Sergeant major or not...you do not put your hands on anyone..the corp is a repected profession and should be handled professionally...that goes for the two lower enlisted as well

Response by Amn William Schwartz made Sep 16 at 2016 10:33 AM

Amn William Schwartz — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 10:33:28 -0400

Ha! If that jarhead would have said that to Gunny Sgt. R. Lee Ermey, he would have likely got a punch in the gut.

Response by COL Lee Flemming made Sep 16 at 2016 11:02 AM

COL Lee Flemming — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 11:02:25 -0400

I think it has all been said COL Mikel J. Burroughs

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2016 12:12 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 12:12:05 -0400

Maybe he was finished buying his groceries and needed both hands to carry his stuff out. Why pick everything up just to put everything down so you can put your cover on at the door 5 feet away.

Response by SFC Charles Kauffman made Sep 16 at 2016 12:58 PM

SFC Charles Kauffman — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 12:58:08 -0400

Time to physically "counsel" the young Marine, and "advise and mentor" the young LT. OOOOrah!

Response by GySgt Kenneth Pepper made Sep 16 at 2016 2:03 PM

GySgt Kenneth Pepper — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 14:03:54 -0400

Doesn't pass my sniff test either. I bet there are some details that were either misunderstood or not seen. Young enlisted Marine in uniform, in the Exchange, with his Mother in tow, asks a commissioned officer in uniform "who the f**k are you". Not likely that it happened exactly that way. If it did happen as stated then both Marines are jacked up like a football bat.

Response by Cpl John Davis made Sep 16 at 2016 2:45 PM

Cpl John Davis — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 14:45:50 -0400

Was this really a Marine or was it some kid with his mother, wearing his fathers uniform and the officer mistook him for a Marine. I really find it hard to believe that a Marine especially a young one would be that belligerent with an officer. I also am disturbed that a Marine Corps officer would engage in a shouting match with anyone no matter who they were. That would be conduct unbecoming and officer for sure. Also no Marine especially that young would even think about putting his cover on inside, that is just something that is drilled into your head from the earliest days of boot camp. If he was going to have his hands full he surely could have simply stepped out the hatch set his bags down and put his cover on. This really sounds like a teenage kid that was wearing some of his fathers old utility's which is something military kids do, again the mothers reaction sounds just like that.

Response by GySgt Kurt Dillard made Sep 16 at 2016 2:49 PM

GySgt Kurt Dillard — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 14:49:13 -0400

Enlisted Marine held accountable, Officer mentored and the SgtMajor did his job ... SgtMajor most likely handled the situation with the Marine's SNCOIC and/or 1stSgt.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2016 4:16 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 16:16:55 -0400

Junior enlisted showing his a** in public? I can believe that, especially if the Officer in question happened to be in civilians.
[Junior] Officer, not that grade or time in service matters, taking the bait and pulling out their measuring stick in response? I can believe that.
SGM silencing an entire building with thunderous fury? Check and check.
Sounds like the junior enlisted Marine needs some serious extra-duty if not some wall to wall counseling. The Officer is wrong but... only in a very loose sense of the word and the SGM is the SGM sounds like he did the right thing.
The people I'd be the most disappointed in are the other service members present who did nothing to intervene or de-escalate the situation. Particularly if the Officer was in civilians. Pull the guy aside and fix his attitude at the lowest level.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2016 4:33 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 16:33:57 -0400

Ooohhhhh is he going to be sorry. When you're corrected you fix yourself.

Response by SSG Grant Hansen made Sep 16 at 2016 4:59 PM

SSG Grant Hansen — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 16:59:37 -0400

The Marine was wrong. Inside the cover stays off. He was even more wrong for not resecting an officer.

The officer made the situation worse. He should have got the Marine's name and unit and brought the matter of the disrepect to the Marine's CO.

Had the officer maintained his composure, the SGM would not have had to intervene and the Marine would have received NJP.

As for the SGM, he did good.

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made Sep 16 at 2016 5:19 PM

Sgt Wayne Wood — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 17:19:19 -0400

SarMajor owns the prive... Should have a word with the Nugget's commander as well.

Response by CW4 Larry Curtis made Sep 16 at 2016 5:46 PM

CW4 Larry Curtis — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 17:46:19 -0400

I think this may be indicative of an even more deeply-rooted problem which involves how young people are raised these days. Just my 2-bits. Respect seems to be turning into a foreign word these days.

Response by 2LT Rtchard Rockhill made Sep 16 at 2016 6:10 PM

2LT Rtchard Rockhill — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 18:10:52 -0400

The correction was well deserved. The original infraction of the cover is/was minor, and a verbal correction was warranted. Once the "young Marine" started to yell and curse at the officer an article
15 is totally in order. That being said I also feel the officer could have handled it in a more professional manner.

Response by Maj Jeff Moss made Sep 16 at 2016 6:33 PM

Maj Jeff Moss — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 18:33:45 -0400

I need to read a full accounting of exactly what happened before I will state an opinion. All I saw was a short come-on to this site, and then this page. would someone direct me to the "full story?"

Response by SPC Edward Carr made Sep 16 at 2016 7:22 PM

SPC Edward Carr — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 19:22:35 -0400

I think the soldier should of known better

Response by PO3 Randy McDaniel made Sep 16 at 2016 7:37 PM

PO3 Randy McDaniel — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 19:37:44 -0400

Most Definitely.

Response by LCpl Kev Stanaitis made Sep 16 at 2016 7:48 PM

LCpl Kev Stanaitis — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 19:48:21 -0400

I don't see a problem with an assortment chewing

Response by Sgt David F. made Sep 16 at 2016 7:54 PM

Sgt David F. — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 19:54:59 -0400

I would of made him do mountain climbers in front of his mother!

Response by Cpl Vernon Cunningham made Sep 16 at 2016 7:59 PM

Cpl Vernon Cunningham — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 19:59:45 -0400

The Sgt. Major handled it right. Remove the offender. Then charge him for disrespecting a superior officer. And have the Officer be reprimended for creating a scene while civilians were present. But the young Marine is the greater offender.

Response by SSG Rick Cody made Sep 16 at 2016 8:19 PM

SSG Rick Cody — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 20:19:02 -0400

Sgt Major did what he was supposed to.

Response by Cpl Donte N Johnson made Sep 16 at 2016 9:24 PM

Cpl Donte N Johnson — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 21:24:55 -0400

The young devil was absolutely wrong. You are a marine at all times, No matter who your with. He should have removed his cover, then asked the officer who he was if he felt the need to know. But do it respectfully. The officer was also wrong. He should have produced i.d. And presented it when first addressing the situation if he was in civilian attire. Both were wrong for the shouting match in the middle of the px. I commend the top for everything except snatching the young devil by his coller. If one gets office hours, all three should. Just put the young devil on shit detail for awhile. Have top chew out the officer's ass, because he is held to a higher standard And is supposed to know better. Then send top home with a thank you. Case closed. Btw, mommy can't save you in the corps! She needs to sit down. And shut up

Response by SPC Bruce Wright made Sep 16 at 2016 10:02 PM

SPC Bruce Wright — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 22:02:01 -0400

If I remember correctly, the day we raised our right and and took that plane ride, we became property of that branch of service. So as far as I'm concerned he had it coming, and the military screwed up when they stopped treating service members this way.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2016 10:08 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 22:08:42 -0400

I'm not a Marine, but if a Soldier had done this to me as a Jounir Officer, I wouldn't have shouted, I would have let him continue to escalate while I maintained my composure, until an SGM or other Senior NCO snatch him up. I would have just kept asking him over and over again what unit he was in, and stating the regulation regarding customs and curtsies. I've had young Soldiers try to bow up when I needed to correct them and I would just ask for the unit, and then get my PSG or when I was a CO my 1SG to come with me and pay a visit to unit. That young Marine was in the wrong, but that Young Officer needed to maintain his composure. Also I don't care if parents are there or not, if he's in uniform he needs to wear it correctly regardless, but I'd see it all the time so it doesn't surprise me, well a little surprising that it was a Marine, they are usually pretty disciplined. Also good on that SGM, doing what NCOs need to do.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2016 10:09 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 22:09:56 -0400

If in uniform, wearing a cover/hat indoors is an issue in all services. Out of uniform, the officer had no grounds as there is no written rule against it. Astor the reaction, the young Marine was totally out of line. Then again, so was the Sgt Maj for "roaring from the back of the store".

Response by LCpl Bryan Ragland made Sep 17 at 2016 12:50 AM

LCpl Bryan Ragland — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 00:50:17 -0400

IT his ass

Response by GySgt Keith Marsh made Sep 17 at 2016 12:53 AM

GySgt Keith Marsh — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 00:53:49 -0400

Absolutely appropriate action on the SgtMaj. The Officer should never have gotten into a shouting match with a junior enlisted Marine, the officer should have at that time taken the young Matine into custody, what happens there is entirely up to the young Marines attitude.
Had I observed that, I would have done the same as the Sgt Maj. When MOM intervened, I would have told her she welcome to discuss her sons attitude and mud behavior with his Commanding officer, and if so desired be a witness at his possible NJP, or Counseling in the First Sgts office.

Response by Camerin Arndt made Sep 17 at 2016 12:54 AM

Camerin Arndt — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 00:54:24 -0400

I think the mother and the young devil dog where both way out of line!

Response by LCpl Jonathan Beltz made Sep 17 at 2016 3:35 AM

LCpl Jonathan Beltz — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 03:35:47 -0400

The SgtMaj was the

Response by Cpl Dan A. made Sep 17 at 2016 7:09 AM

Cpl Dan A. — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 07:09:05 -0400

Nice try Army. That didn't happen in the USMC.

Response by Sgt James Bryant made Sep 17 at 2016 7:46 AM

Sgt James Bryant — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 07:46:18 -0400

The young Marine was wrong at having his cover on, than talking to the officer that way. But the officer could've handled it better. But like always senior enlisted always gets it done!

Response by Sgt Warren Hengel made Sep 17 at 2016 8:00 AM

Sgt Warren Hengel — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 08:00:30 -0400

Simply remind the Marine that covers are not worn indoors and to remove it. Then see what he does from there.

Response by SSG John Lambert made Sep 17 at 2016 8:08 AM

SSG John Lambert — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 08:08:40 -0400

Yeah, I'm going to call bull$#/t on this one.

Response by SFC Dante Cummings made Sep 17 at 2016 8:24 AM

SFC Dante Cummings — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 08:24:13 -0400

SGTMaj to the rescue.....

Response by SPC Jackson Stevens made Sep 17 at 2016 8:26 AM

SPC Jackson Stevens — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 08:26:34 -0400

I would think the SgtMaj "owns" both the young, dumb, Marine AND the junior officer. The young marine has, at minimum, an Article 15 (or the USMC equivalent). The officer, "?," totally lost when he raised his (her?) voice in a public setting. All the SgtMaj need do is talk to the SgtMaj of the officers unit, and you darn well know they know each other. I would not want to be in the officers boots when his commander learns of this lack of leadership skills.

Response by Cpl Brandon Morin made Sep 17 at 2016 8:37 AM

Cpl Brandon Morin — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 08:37:55 -0400

Someone gets an ass chewing unless they are under arms. That is the only excuse. Marines god damn better know better.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2016 9:31 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 09:31:29 -0400

I'm not in the Marines but, in assuming he was in the PX. IF he was ABOUT to walk out of the store, i.e. less than 10 seconds AFTER, putting it on, it should have been big deal. But, when the higher rank approached him, he SHOULD/COULD have pulled him to the side and explained proper PC. Its an ARMY THING

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2016 10:21 AM

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 10:21:01 -0400

The problem is he has seen his seniors do it and others do it and not be corrected. I just retired after 20 year and I was having to correct my seniors, peers, and my subordinates. For on having a proper hair cut to fixing there uniforms etc. I was told by to very senior Marines that they didn't shave on the weekends but would still go out in town and do things. They said the only time they shaved is when they came to work or the base. So long store short if you see a Marine that is wrong correct him or her no matter what the rank is and do it professionally.

Response by Sgt Mark Taggart made Sep 17 at 2016 10:29 AM

Sgt Mark Taggart — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 10:29:11 -0400

This is the problem, mothers of America not teaching they're children about respect for authority. These days our children are becoming more disrespectful by the day by not being taught respect or accountability. Lesson to be taught to this young marine is respect for authority. End state, NJP him and if that doesn't solve the problem admin sep send him back to mommy to coddle.

Response by LTC Dan Murdock made Sep 17 at 2016 10:41 AM

LTC Dan Murdock — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 10:41:34 -0400

The Lt should have waited until they left the check out line then pulled the Marine to the side for some quick counseling and reminder about military protocol. If then, the Marine became insubordinate you simply take his name and notify his chain of command for disciplinary action. While I always take a SGM's guidance to heart, the SGM should have approached both, said excuse me Ma'am to the mother then taken the discussion outside. Soldier's attitude still warrants extra duty of some sort. The military is changing. Once upon a time we couldn't gas our cars up at a civilian gas station in uniform and traveling in uniform required class A.

Response by MSgt Mark Wood made Sep 17 at 2016 11:36 AM

MSgt Mark Wood — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 11:36:53 -0400

I was at Camp Humphreys in 05, I witnessed a CSM rip a PFC about being slow putting on his hat while coming out of BurgerKing, it was no big deal but there was several small children and he was using every word in the book. In the middle of his tyraid I walked up to him and asked him I could talk to him, he waved me off and continued yelling at PFC. I doubled down and then he started swearing at me. At that moment I noticed a odor of an alcoholic bevererage emanating from his person. At that time a small crowd had gathered and the MP were on scene. I told him I would apprehend him, he lost it. MPs were being pussies about it, not impressed. So I spent the next hour at the MP stationed being questioned, what a joke. The funny part about the whole thing was I am a USAF Cop from Osan Air Base 7th Air Force, I was just picking up weapons from a comm unit that was standing down. The CSM walked out of MP post, nothing? This was a Friday, on Monday I get called into directors office, read the riot act by a fu@king 1 star. After telling my side and the part about the CSM swearing infront of small children and being possibally drunk on post. The next day the CSM, a Lt and a Col from HHB (can't remember unit, I think it was 3/2 heavy lift something?). He appauligized and me being a true USAF SP/SF, I said you need to apologize to the family that you acted like a fool infront. That CSM wanted to reach out and kill me. I added "in the future CSM, when a Military Law Enforcement officer what's to talk to you don't disrespect them. The 1 star gave me a stern look, I knew that was about all my MSgt could get away with, I was retiring in a few months, so whatever.

Response by Sgt Bryan Stinnett made Sep 17 at 2016 11:41 AM

Sgt Bryan Stinnett — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 11:41:00 -0400

One thing i learned was its not always what you say its how you say it. That goes for both sides. Just cause you could yell don't mean you have to. And you always avoid smoking anyone in front of family if it can be avoided it should

Response by MAJ Karen Wall made Sep 17 at 2016 11:44 AM

MAJ Karen Wall — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 11:44:27 -0400

WOW! This is not the first time I have heard of something like this happening. If I recall correctly, we do NOT wear our cover indoors unless we are directed to do so for some official or ceremonial reason (color guard, etc.). Even if the junior officer was correct, he did it totally wrong. Is "conduct unbecoming" still a UCMJ offense? NOW the SgtMaj grabbing the Marine in a public place is wrong. He can yell all he wants, and even order the Marines out of the building. He can do whatever he wants if he and the Marine are in their official unit setting, but laying his hands on anyone, not just a Marine, in a public setting could be viewed as an assault if someone wanted to pursue it. That young Marine's mother has not witnessed something that will stay with her and affect her view of the military. In the end, though, all three of these guys were wrong.

Response by SGT Ralph Zinter made Sep 17 at 2016 12:08 PM

SGT Ralph Zinter — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 12:08:19 -0400

The young marine was wrong about putting his cover on. Arguing with the officer should of earned him ucmj action. Seems the SgtMaj was the only right headed person present. As for mommy, I would say she's the reason the young marine doesn't respect authority.

Response by Maj Daniel Rubadue made Sep 17 at 2016 12:34 PM

Maj Daniel Rubadue — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 12:34:40 -0400

Jail the young fool.

Response by Cpl Ben Earl made Sep 17 at 2016 1:28 PM

Cpl Ben Earl — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 13:28:40 -0400

I gotta say, I'm questioning the validity of this. "Several employees and Marines hit the deck" because a Saj Maj started yelling? Why? That makes no sense. And what Marine in his right mind is going to yell "who the fuck are you" at an officer? Even if the officer was in civvies, I never knew anyone who was dumb enough to mouth off like that to a Marine out of uniform who they didn't know. You never know who you're about to piss off. Other than that, stories like this are actually pretty common. I'm not sure why someone felt compelled to write about it and post it. Sounds like just another turd who doesn't like having to follow the stupid little rules, and doesn't like being corrected for it when he breaks them. I won't cast this aside as definitively being a lie or a story that was conjured up for entertainment though. I suppose, all things being considered, this story is plausible at the very least. Would be nice if there was more information provided to support the validity of the story.

Response by AN Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2016 2:18 PM

AN Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 14:18:14 -0400

They both stepped in something that won't wipe off for awhile. As for me I'd rather face a firing squad than be stuck between a SgtMaj and my mother lockin horns !!!!

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2016 2:45 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 14:45:02 -0400

The Junior Marine should be NJP'd and that's it.

Response by SGT Stephen Tucker made Sep 17 at 2016 3:19 PM

SGT Stephen Tucker — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 15:19:23 -0400

The whole thing seems really strange to me? Sounds like the only one in the right if this is a true story is the SGM. I don't see a junior enlisted being that far in outer space by disrespecting an officer. If it was an on spot correction which sometimes need to be made it certainly should have been done away from any family members pulled off to the side. It does not state weather any one was in uniform either? I have seen many people in the PX or BX where hats in civilian attire and no one really cares. But if the marine was in uniform he should have just complied with the lawful order. The officer should have pulled him to the side and not made a seen. The SGM is right because he's always right!!!

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2016 3:23 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 15:23:54 -0400

"Salty" Lances and Corporals can be found standing around smoke pits with their hands in their pockets and with an obvious "no-fade" but I can't even imagine the saltiest salt dog doing somethin like this... and I've met some salt dogs. I mean, bleached camies with a cigarette in the mouth getting ready to throw a boot into Bandini kind of Salt Dogs. But I've never seen anything like this. SNM should have been approached by an NCO prior to an officer taking notice of SNM's behavior. If the NCO couldn't solve the problem, he should've asked for SNM's command contact information and he should have called his command. An officer should have handled the situation similarly. To the mother: "You have no power here." I think the Sgt Maj handled the situation appropriately. It's at least how I'd expect a Sgt Maj to handle such a situation.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2016 3:42 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 15:42:57 -0400

I assume (not that we should ever assume) that the "boy" was in uniform not civilian cloths with his "cover" . In uniform why the hell would you put your cover on indoors? Either way the shouting match like that in a public place shouldn't have happened. The butterbar was probably on his high horse though. Also the junior officer could have just got his name and rank if the boy was wearing cammies and just said he was going to report him.

Response by LCpl Earl Breon made Sep 17 at 2016 4:13 PM

LCpl Earl Breon — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 16:13:39 -0400

It's not too far fetched. There are some shitbirds out there who think they can get away with anything... especially with a witness like mommy watching. Sounds like Sergeant Major handled it appropriately. Young Marine was a douche, Junior Officer let his collar cloud his judgment and there aint a CO or XO out there that will side with a boot lou over the SgtMaj on this one!

Moral of the story, SgtMaj is ALWAYS watching!

Response by Jeremy Reese made Sep 17 at 2016 4:20 PM

Jeremy Reese — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 16:20:02 -0400

When u are in formation your are allowed to were your covers.

Response by PO1 Russell Henson made Sep 17 at 2016 4:32 PM

PO1 Russell Henson — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 16:32:01 -0400

SgtMaj handled it correctly. Young marine should've never raised his voice to an officer. Hopefully he will get an EMI and not an Article 89. The mother has to realized that her baby doesn't belong to her anymore. He belongs to the Corps unless she wants him kicked out.

Response by Cpl Steve Lindsey made Sep 17 at 2016 5:51 PM

Cpl Steve Lindsey — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 17:51:56 -0400

That young Marine needs to learn respect. Gunny once told me, you don't have to like the young officer but you better respect the uniform and rank.

Response by Sgt Derin Nicely made Sep 17 at 2016 6:10 PM

Sgt Derin Nicely — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 18:10:46 -0400

Good for him. Don't wear your cover in the px boot

Response by LCpl William Perry made Sep 17 at 2016 6:12 PM

LCpl William Perry — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 18:12:02 -0400

That young Marine has not learned the word RESPECT and it should be taught to him. He failed on following instructions boots are taught about wearing the cover, and following directions of a senior member. The mother sounds like she is clueless as my mother would have stayed out of the situation as she had been a military house wife and knew the drill.

Response by Cpl Dennis F. made Sep 17 at 2016 6:31 PM

Cpl Dennis F. — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 18:31:52 -0400

What have ya'll done with my Marine Corps? Back in my day had you gone off on ME as a lowly E-4, let alone an officer, you most likely would have immediately had your dick knocked in the dirt! That is all!

Response by SSgt Mark Havens made Sep 17 at 2016 7:01 PM

SSgt Mark Havens — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 19:01:28 -0400

That enlisted marine was clearly out of line. There's really no debate here I mean you learn early on what the regs are and when you don't follow them you will be adjusted

Response by CPO Vaughn Ehrman made Sep 17 at 2016 7:51 PM

CPO Vaughn Ehrman — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 19:51:14 -0400

Hasta La Vista Mom! Is what I have to say. I was once as Chief walking with my then Mother-in-Law in the lower compound in Naples, Italy when a female Air Force Major says to me you forgot to salute me Chief. Instead of making a scene and know I am not saluting her, but what she represents. I said sorry Mam (which you can make sound like yes bitch). I didn't see you and not to create a scene. I saluted and went on about my business. I explained what happened to my Mother-in-Law. Moral of the Sea Story the young Marine got was coming to his disrespectful young boot ass.

Response by WO1 Malcolm Hayes made Sep 17 at 2016 8:04 PM

WO1 Malcolm Hayes — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 20:04:34 -0400

the troop should have said yes sir, and removed his cover or hat and it be over, if the sgtmaj had to step in it would both of you in my office in the morning in full dress.

Response by Cpl Samuel Ryan made Sep 17 at 2016 8:08 PM

Cpl Samuel Ryan — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 20:08:28 -0400

Do they mean young Marine like the little boy scout group? If so this makes so much more sense

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2016 8:23 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 20:23:28 -0400

The young Marines these days know little tact. Also, the SgtMaj didn't display very much discipline and tact. As angering this issue is, the best thing to do would have been to remain calm and tell the junior Marine to get out of the building... Not drag him out by his collar in front of his mother. Very odd a senior enlisted Marine took those actions.

Response by SSgt Johnnica Ingle made Sep 17 at 2016 10:14 PM

SSgt Johnnica Ingle — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 22:14:25 -0400

NEVER and let me repeat this NEVER piss off the SgtMaj. He was right and the young officer needs to be reminded how to handle troops. The young enlisted was TOTALLY in the wrong unless he was under arms.
The SgtMaj used a command voice (Plus hands) to gain control of the situation.

I do hope the SgtMaj used some CHARM to inform the Mother just what was wrong and why he handled the situation in the manner he did.

Response by LCpl Nathan Helm made Sep 17 at 2016 11:19 PM

LCpl Nathan Helm — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 23:19:40 -0400

Its not a huge deal to say sorry and take your cover off and then 5 feet later put it back on. If your with your parent why would you be cussing out a fellow Marine to begun with. Have pride in yourself and the Corps.

Response by MSgt Mark Wood made Sep 17 at 2016 11:59 PM

MSgt Mark Wood — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 23:59:28 -0400

Hmmmm

Response by MSgt Mark Wood made Sep 18 at 2016 12:03 AM

MSgt Mark Wood — Sun, 18 Sep 2016 00:03:10 -0400

Sounds legit or not

Response by Sgt David Bernardo made Sep 18 at 2016 12:27 AM

Sgt David Bernardo — Sun, 18 Sep 2016 00:27:42 -0400

Bottom line the Marine shouldn't have had his cover on while in doors. And shouldn't have responded in the foul way that he did. Setting the proper presidence always should be displayed. The SGTMAJ didn't help matters by his conduct either. Could've been handled better!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 18 at 2016 6:05 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 18 Sep 2016 06:05:39 -0400

LMAO.

Response by PFC Charlie Herbst made Sep 18 at 2016 8:02 AM

PFC Charlie Herbst — Sun, 18 Sep 2016 08:02:36 -0400

Definitely should be some discipline. Pt that kid until he puked

Response by PO2 Henry Kaczmarek made Sep 18 at 2016 8:15 AM

PO2 Henry Kaczmarek — Sun, 18 Sep 2016 08:15:32 -0400

If It's true---they're BOTH wrong. the enlisted man for wearing a cover in the MCX, the junior officer for a lack of tact and counseling skill. The enlisted man DESERVES extra duty at the minimum. The officer needed a non-punitive letter of reprimand for disturbing the peace.

Response by SSG Danny Neve made Sep 18 at 2016 8:47 AM

SSG Danny Neve — Sun, 18 Sep 2016 08:47:31 -0400

Article 15 for the disrespecting an Officer, bar the mother from the MCX. Tell her if she does it again she will be barred from the base.

Response by Cpl Nathan Benjamin Fritog made Sep 18 at 2016 9:39 AM

Cpl Nathan Benjamin Fritog — Sun, 18 Sep 2016 09:39:43 -0400

This is the dumbest shit I've ever heard

Response by SGT Justin Moore made Sep 18 at 2016 9:41 AM

SGT Justin Moore — Sun, 18 Sep 2016 09:41:47 -0400

1. I'm not marine but a medically discharged medic, army, two deployments Iraq and Afghanistan both combat arms.

2. The 8ish yrs I was in it started out with "I might not like, you might be a s**t bag of a leader, but dagum it I have to respect your rank" now it's not like that in the army anymore it's "oh I dont like you because you make me work, you can't do s**t to me because we have so many things in place you will get in trouble before I do, and I have no respect for anyone to include myself but I'm going to act everyone in charge is a douchecanoe and be a pain in their a $$"

3. As soon as the mom said don't touch my boy, the CSM should have turned to her politely and said well it's either I talk with him now, because you obviously haven't taught him respect, or I can detain him let have his own people come get him and get him in more trouble. Then it's situational dependent. Definitely some extra duty.

3. The officer needs a talking to too. He should act more professional but yet all older enlisted know the newbies act just like privates most of the time.

Also I was an nco before the surgeries started should have had my SSG/e6 but wasn't promotable due to being a broke dick. Still kept an 8pk and in a best shape I could by working out however I could without risking injury. It's not about whether or not you like the rules or the people around or in charge of you, it's about your discipline, work ethic, and determination to get the job done.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 18 at 2016 10:01 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 18 Sep 2016 10:01:53 -0400

What I like about the story is it gives you that ole timey feeling.

Response by GySgt Bill Fairbanks made Sep 18 at 2016 10:20 AM

GySgt Bill Fairbanks — Sun, 18 Sep 2016 10:20:34 -0400

The "junior Officer" needs a lesson in tact, and the young Marine a lesson in respect. I ran into a young Marine in the airport in Seattle on my way to Okinawa. His whole family was there and he was in dress blues. I noticed right away that his collar EGA's were on the wrong side, Rather than embarrass him in front of his family, I pointed out the issue privately and helped him fix it, no harm done, no harsh words. I talked with him and his family for about 30 minutes and we all left on good terms.

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 18 at 2016 12:39 PM

LCpl Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 18 Sep 2016 12:39:59 -0400

Just was disrespectful by junior marine

Response by LCpl Ezequiel Carrasco made Sep 18 at 2016 1:12 PM

LCpl Ezequiel Carrasco — Sun, 18 Sep 2016 13:12:38 -0400

Young Marine was in the wrong, lucky it was a SgrMaj that caught him

Response by Cpl Chris Ruth made Sep 18 at 2016 1:19 PM

Cpl Chris Ruth — Sun, 18 Sep 2016 13:19:11 -0400

Hahah yeah he is sol

Response by Sgt William Perry made Sep 18 at 2016 1:24 PM

Sgt William Perry — Sun, 18 Sep 2016 13:24:26 -0400

First, the young Marine was wrong for wearing his cover in doors unless he was on duty. Second, the young Marine was wrong in his approach to the Junior officer and swearing in front of his mother. Last, SgtMaj is the big wig, he's seen more and done more that the two other Marines combined, I'm sure he didn't hurt the young Marine so the Mother needs to let the Marine Corps be exactly that!

Response by CW3 Steve White made Sep 18 at 2016 1:50 PM

CW3 Steve White — Sun, 18 Sep 2016 13:50:05 -0400

Todays PC correct culture makes this very different than "how we did things back in my day". An Officer or Noncommissioned Officer who assaults another military member will likely face severe reprocutions. My recommendation to an Officer/NCO who may find themselves in the situation:

A senior Military Officer/NCO (in uniform) speaking to a subordinate (in uniform).... Branch of service makes no differnce. Disregarding the initial "offense" that warranted the "on the spot uniform correction".

As soon as there was a punitive action (Insubordination), the Officer/NCO should fully identify himself, direct the subordinate to the Position of Attention/Parade Rest, demanded the ID card and Chain of Command contact information.
- If ID card and CoC infomation was provided. Contact the Officer / Senior NCO and let them handle the corrective actions. Be prepared to provide a sworn statement.
- Failure to follow the ORDERS of the Officer/NCO - Contact the Provost Marshal's Office. Get contact information of anybody who witnessed the offense. Let the PMO handle the investigation. Be prepared to provide a sworn statement.

This doesn't sound as tough, but might save your career.

Response by MAJ Luca Luca made Sep 18 at 2016 2:06 PM

MAJ Luca Luca — Sun, 18 Sep 2016 14:06:17 -0400

Sounds like another "Military Tale Tale". I think that if a young troop did wear a cover indoors it would just be a simple act of anyone making eye contact and doing a quick reminding point to the grape to alert him to his remover his brain bag. Every forgets it sometimes and everyone knows it. If it did escalate to this, then it is simple, if you are outranked, you follow the direction. If you start shouting out, you are out of line.
As I said, seems like a "SGM saves the dumb Louie" story.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 18 at 2016 2:17 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 18 Sep 2016 14:17:36 -0400

Regulation and rules are laid before this young recruit joined the forced. Why are changing it to fit this little spoiled brats so they can play army or marine. This is why we dont give out trophy to everyone.

Response by Cpl Javier Perez made Sep 18 at 2016 3:33 PM

Cpl Javier Perez — Sun, 18 Sep 2016 15:33:03 -0400

Oh, no doubt.

Response by Cpl Justin Payne made Sep 18 at 2016 4:33 PM

Cpl Justin Payne — Sun, 18 Sep 2016 16:33:24 -0400

All honesty great job Sgt Major. You handled the situation accordingly. As far as the mom goes, she's has no right to say a word since she probably doesn't understand rules behind wearing covers indoors. As far as the JUNIOR officer goes, he handled it the wrong way. When the young marine ask who are you, that's when the officer should've showed some professionalism and taken the marine outside and firmly explained who he was and why he got onto that marine.

Response by Maj Adam Love made Sep 18 at 2016 4:49 PM

Maj Adam Love — Sun, 18 Sep 2016 16:49:32 -0400

That SgtMaj hopefully saved that young fool from a charge sheet! It wasn't that long ago that I remember when SNCOs locked young Marines up at attention and drilled them publicly in the PX, parking, lot, sidewalk, etc for minor infractions. It maintained good order and discipline. Disrespect and failure to comply with orders and regulations can not be tolerated and fosters a lack of discipline. I've even had to remove some fools from the PX for being in their unit PT uniforms. Fortunately, I had a hard 1stSgt with me who took care of the situation without me having to take formal action as an officer. I know the 2 degenerates had to report to their unit SgtMaj that night. I'm sure their unit took care of them and they were squared away thereafter! Painful as it may have been... I've even had to tell junior officers to remove their covers inside. Of course, they complied, but the fact they did it at all is what's concerning... Don't even get me going about the transgressions I've scene and corrected on Navy bases... It's everyone's job to enforce the rules and maintain good order and discipline! Semper Fi Marines!

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 18 at 2016 4:54 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 18 Sep 2016 16:54:57 -0400

Regardless of what other branches do, if he is a marine he is not to wear his cover in doors. And if he is caught doing so, she should expect a correction from someone. Regardless of the rank of the corrector; if he is wrong then he should take the correction and move on with you life. It is all of our duty to police our fellow marines.

Response by LCpl Ryan Eggers made Sep 18 at 2016 5:15 PM

LCpl Ryan Eggers — Sun, 18 Sep 2016 17:15:12 -0400

Plenty of lack of tact, was the junior officer in uniform or civvies? If in uniform it's a no trainer who he is, in civvies he should have used tact and said hey PFC, you are indoors not under arms so yu need to remove your cover, PFC response should have been a thank you for the reminder not a who the hell are you. The Sgt Major is correct he is old enough to know better and though enlisted a jr officer will listen to the wisdom of a senior enlisted, especially a Sgt Major.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 18 at 2016 7:05 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 18 Sep 2016 19:05:47 -0400

The young officer did the right thing by approaching him and telling him to temblor the cover. The junior Marine, regardless of who told him to, should have done the right thing and removed the cover. By yelling at the officer, he was wrong, but the way the officer handled it afterwards was not any better. Seeing as there are families around, I believe he should have pulled called him over to the side and excersized tact.

Response by 1stLt Kevin Paige made Sep 18 at 2016 7:39 PM

1stLt Kevin Paige — Sun, 18 Sep 2016 19:39:11 -0400

I would be wearing that young marines ass out. Sgt major got him out of there before his career was ruined before it got started. That marines immediate superior is still beating his ass in the tree line.

Response by Capt Joe Chatman made Sep 18 at 2016 8:55 PM

Capt Joe Chatman — Sun, 18 Sep 2016 20:55:54 -0400

Hell freaking YES extra duty is at the very bottom of the list of what this undisciplined Marine should expect!! He lost his freaking mind disrespecting an officer like that. A young officer or not!! He still disrespected the officer, himself, his command, and all of the Marines before him enlisted and commissioned!! The first thing that separates Marines from the rest is his/her ability to always maintain their bearing....no matter the situation. He lost all bearing and insulted those Marines that taught him about bearing and what it means to have it! Just flat out disgusted of his behavior. Send him back to the Island or San Diego because he needs to be retrained!

Response by PFC Eric Stosius made Sep 18 at 2016 10:33 PM

PFC Eric Stosius — Sun, 18 Sep 2016 22:33:15 -0400

First off its called a pissing contest not a shouting match. Number 2, that would have resulted in office hours at least. If not straight to the brig.

Response by LCpl Heather Bisaha made Sep 18 at 2016 11:22 PM

LCpl Heather Bisaha — Sun, 18 Sep 2016 23:22:17 -0400

The officer had every right to tell him to take it off...that Marine had no right occording to regs to wear his cover indoors.....as for the SgtMaj he did what SgtMajs doo best he dug in that Marines Ass and for good reason And the officer shouldnt have let it get to the point of a shouting match bring forth this SgtMaj....he should have used he's teachings as an officer to control his Marine and if That Marines mom had taught him any respect as a child she wouldn't have had to witness this behavior.....Thus Marine should be Discharged for failure to Conform to Military Standards....but thats my opinion

Response by Tayen Madsen made Sep 18 at 2016 11:32 PM

Tayen Madsen — Sun, 18 Sep 2016 23:32:41 -0400

Assuming this really happened, I think the SgtMaj was the most correct. Never wear your cover indoors, but also carry yourself in a manor that represents the Corps properly. I don't leave for bootcamp until December and I already realize I represent the Marine Corps and should carry myself as such.

Response by LCpl Jesse Hauch made Sep 18 at 2016 11:48 PM

LCpl Jesse Hauch — Sun, 18 Sep 2016 23:48:30 -0400

By "Young Marine" are you referring to the youth organization similar to the Boy Scouts or an actual junior enlisted Marine? The former is plausible, but the latter is not.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 19 at 2016 1:00 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 19 Sep 2016 01:00:17 -0400

Honestly this whole story seems really odd to me... Idk what they are doing in the marines, but if ANY enlisted rank said something like that to an officer... There's no telling what might happen to that person, first off... And second off throughout basic training they make it a HUGE deal to always have your PC off in doors, because of respect. So it should be second hand nature now to not have it on. And the sergeant major had ALLLLLLLL the right in the world to escort that marine out. As for his mom, she must be very new to the marine life, because if she wasn't she'd know that the SM was only doing his job.

Response by PO3 Pj Clarke made Sep 19 at 2016 1:25 AM

PO3 Pj Clarke — Mon, 19 Sep 2016 01:25:00 -0400

For the SgtMaj. absolutely not. For the young Marine who was insubordinate and disobeyed a direct order. Take him to Mast, reduction in rate by one pay grade, 45 days restriction to the barracks with 45 days extra duty. As for Mommie dearest, somebody should have told that bitch to shut the fuck up.

Response by LCpl Joshua Streicher made Sep 19 at 2016 3:08 AM

LCpl Joshua Streicher — Mon, 19 Sep 2016 03:08:33 -0400

Although the young officer was correcting the young Marine on proper uniform where especially in a check out line and the young Marine was most definitely in the wrong for both wearing his cover inside the building in the first place and then yelling at the officer as well also the junior Marine should've have taken his cover off when corrected by his higher up to even though the junior officer may have been in which the young Marine felt was a boot Marine officer and the junior officer was also in the wrong for getting Into a shouting match as well as the young Marine when he first said something about the situation and the young Marine got defensive his next response should've been who is you squad leader platoon commander and company commander this way the young Marine would've one corrected himself and been dealt with appropriately in proper manner as for the Sergeant major his response was in appropriate for the situation and dealing with it to all Marines both enlisted and officers are taught from the very beginning from boot camp that your to never wear your cover inside of a building both in uniform and out of uniform unless if in uniform and your either the corpal of guards or Sergeant of guards and on duty with your duty belt or an mp on duty in uniform with your duty belt on .

Response by MSG Bob Metz made Sep 19 at 2016 4:43 AM

MSG Bob Metz — Mon, 19 Sep 2016 04:43:49 -0400

SGM Is fully in the right...the junior officer started off right, but he fell into a precipice by reacting to the defensive young Marine...the junior officer should not have allowed the situation to escalate in the given public setting...as the SGM pointed out...young Marine was totally wrong...possibly trying to impress mom...mom was in the right... Why?...because she's mom and it's her duty...but SGM was right to remove the instigator to an area where he could properly dress him down and get his particulars so he could pass it on to the Marine's chain-of-command...and then hand him off to mom...I can very well understand this actually happening...

Response by LCDR Anthony Montague made Sep 19 at 2016 4:59 AM

LCDR Anthony Montague — Mon, 19 Sep 2016 04:59:32 -0400

The SgtMjr was correct. They were BOTH acting in a manner unbecoming the Uniform. That having been said, the junior officer needs to learn how to handle minor disciplinary matters in a manner that leaves both no room for it to escalate AND for both sides to retain their honor after the encounter. As a retired officer, I would have handled it more like "Sony, I know that you are in a hurry and may have become distracted by the presence of your mother, but regulations require that you remove your cover while indoors, so just remove your cover and I will forget that I saw it happen, ok?

Response by Cpl Rich Jordan made Sep 19 at 2016 6:39 AM

Cpl Rich Jordan — Mon, 19 Sep 2016 06:39:50 -0400

They were both wrong on how they handled it. The young marine should of never put his cover on inside. The office was correct in telling him to take it off. However did he identify himself? Then when the yelling escalated this should of not happen and they should of taken out of the public view.

Response by Cpl Jeffrey Vik made Sep 19 at 2016 7:42 AM

Cpl Jeffrey Vik — Mon, 19 Sep 2016 07:42:28 -0400

The exchange is where a lot of corporals and sergeants go for their courses to desensitize the ability to correct Marines. It's random and if the kid out his cover on inside what did he expect to happen?
Lip off to someone while they correct you? Yeah ur lucky if you don't get your ass kicked later.

Response by Hannah Snow made Sep 19 at 2016 9:18 AM

Hannah Snow — Mon, 19 Sep 2016 09:18:27 -0400

Okay whether I'm a wife or not of someone in the service I know enough yes please take the cover off while your in the building..and yes show some respect but I think what should have happened is when the boy started yelling the officer should have not said a word back grabbed the boy by the arm and walked out side and then yelled at him back but that clearly didn't happen lol

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 19 at 2016 9:41 AM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 19 Sep 2016 09:41:09 -0400

I disagree with majority of people that say they were both in the wrong. The junior officer initially saw something that should've been corrected. Regardless of rank, the individual should've taken his hat off and that being the end of it. You don't need to "approach him secretively" to tell him to remove his hat. Give me a break. That's the problem these days. People are too sensitive and it's making us look pathetic.

Response by SrA Keith Hughes made Sep 19 at 2016 10:03 AM

SrA Keith Hughes — Mon, 19 Sep 2016 10:03:46 -0400

Of it happened then the Sr. NCO was right, the Jr. Officer was obviously an ROTC grad rather than an Annapolis Acadamy Grad and the recruit needed his ass kicked and the mother needed to assist in the ass kicking or leave.

Response by PO1 Glenn Roesener made Sep 19 at 2016 10:19 AM

PO1 Glenn Roesener — Mon, 19 Sep 2016 10:19:33 -0400

1. No one starts a true story with "this is a no-shitter
2. A non-chain of command officer would be out of line for engaging in a shouting match
3. The mother is clueless
4. The Sargeant-Major came the closest to handling the situation correctly
5. Here I am, having gotten sucked into this slumber-party question. I don't like it. I don't like junior-high slumber-party questions. I don't like them being used as Facebook posts to lure me over here to see what the hell is going on. If this continues I'm out of here.

Response by Sgt Marbury Keys made Sep 19 at 2016 11:15 AM

Sgt Marbury Keys — Mon, 19 Sep 2016 11:15:39 -0400

SgtMaj did the right thing....

Response by Sgt John C Marple made Sep 19 at 2016 11:21 AM

Sgt John C Marple — Mon, 19 Sep 2016 11:21:34 -0400

Public hamiliation in the way to go. Should have just pulled the marine in question and told him to remove his cover.

Response by SGT David T. made Sep 19 at 2016 11:29 AM

SGT David T. — Mon, 19 Sep 2016 11:29:33 -0400

Promote ahead of peers....to civilian lol

Response by SPC Troy Keahey made Sep 19 at 2016 11:49 AM

SPC Troy Keahey — Mon, 19 Sep 2016 11:49:59 -0400

Yes, lots

Response by LCpl Daniel R. Casey made Sep 19 at 2016 11:54 AM

LCpl Daniel R. Casey — Mon, 19 Sep 2016 11:54:06 -0400

You follow orders period. Though he might have had his duty belt on. You follow orders.! I suspect he'll get 4 weeks of 2 hours on watch followed by 2 hours off then 2 hours on, 2 hours off till he admits to his mistake of not following orders.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 19 at 2016 11:54 AM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 19 Sep 2016 11:54:46 -0400

That's some funny stuff right there. Thanks for the chuckle.

So reading this story how many other here have seen some truly stupid / insane moments in their careers?

The best I can think of for this Enlisted / Officer moments was a SGT Slingblade (name withheld to protect the guilty lol) and ENS imabouttodie. We are out training for an IA, while doing reflex fire ENS weapon keeps jamming. Well he keeps trying to unjam it without taking a knee, and SGT keeps screaming at him to take a knee,
Knee / unjam / stand up / shot /jam / screaming / knee / unjam / stand /… repeat.
So after about 4 or 5 of these cycles SGT screams for a cease fire and safe. He get in this ENS face and starts screaming at him

SGT “Where the F-ck are you going?
ENS ‘I’m going to Iraq!” (think happy gomer pile type attitude on that comment)
SGT “take a f-cking body bag because you’re going to f-cking die” you are going to die.. do you hear me (he is standing in front of the ENS holding on to the front his armor vest screaming at him)

At this point some other DI’s come running up and we see the SGT has hives popping out all over his face, they tell him take the next two days off and go home before he kills the ENS or has a heart attack.

It was bad but dam if it wasn’t funny.

Response by SFC Stephen Jubrey made Sep 19 at 2016 12:05 PM

SFC Stephen Jubrey — Mon, 19 Sep 2016 12:05:01 -0400

Does not sound right

Response by SSgt Fernando Ramirez made Sep 19 at 2016 1:06 PM

SSgt Fernando Ramirez — Mon, 19 Sep 2016 13:06:43 -0400

THIS IS OUR CORPS, WHEN HE SIGNED THE CONTRACT, HIS ASS BELONGS TO THE MARINES. THEIR ARE RULES AND REGULATIONS OF THE MILITARY JUSTICE , THIS MARINE MUST ABIDE BY. IF HE REFUSES, HE WILL PAY FOR IT.HE SHOULD OF ALSO KEPT HIS BEARING, AND NOT DISRESPECTED THE OFFICER THAT CORRECTED HIM.PARENTS, IF YOU SEE THIS HAPPENING YOU MUST NOT, AND CANNOT DO A THING. LIKE I SAID, HIS ASS BELONGS TO THE CORPS. SEMPER FI, SSGT.RAMIREZ F.

Response by LCpl Dylan Kelly made Sep 19 at 2016 1:17 PM

LCpl Dylan Kelly — Mon, 19 Sep 2016 13:17:33 -0400

Disrespected a commissioned officer...not in my house. He deserved it, and will probably be in a bit of a fix after his unit finds out.

Response by PFC Jacob Cruz made Sep 19 at 2016 1:27 PM

PFC Jacob Cruz — Mon, 19 Sep 2016 13:27:57 -0400

If he was getting ready to leave then o can understand putting the cover on. If you have to carry things and your arms are full then you put your cover on indoors and proceed outside. The other issue is the butterbar. If your going to tell someone something identify yourself. How is it to say I'm a junior officer and I see your new, I want to save you from getting in trouble no cover in doors. The young marine and the officer should both be disciplined for unprofessionalism because at the very least the junior officer should not start getting into a pissing match.

Response by LCpl John Lewis made Sep 19 at 2016 2:59 PM

LCpl John Lewis — Mon, 19 Sep 2016 14:59:20 -0400

The young marine was out of uniform regarding the cover,upon correction he cursed out an officer,the sgtmgr handled it properly and this young pup will likely end up in front of his company commander if not his battalion commander and likely both and why was his mommy with him ????

Response by CPL Cullen Hopson made Sep 19 at 2016 3:36 PM

CPL Cullen Hopson — Mon, 19 Sep 2016 15:36:04 -0400

You and stupid marine and junior officer sgtmaj should have fucked them both up

Response by SSgt Bob Gillespie made Sep 19 at 2016 3:36 PM

SSgt Bob Gillespie — Mon, 19 Sep 2016 15:36:25 -0400

Sounds like that young enlisted needed his rear dusted. Weather a LT or even a higher ranking NCO, once identified, any thing less than a yes Sir or yes Sgt needed correcting on the spot, period. There is no PC for disrespect.

Response by SSG Chi Li made Sep 19 at 2016 4:46 PM

SSG Chi Li — Mon, 19 Sep 2016 16:46:51 -0400

Both are wrong. The young Marine for talking to an officer in that way and wearing the cover in the building. The officer's way of handling and escalating the situation. The young Marine showed insubordination to a Marine officer and needs to delt with. The mother of the young Marine should have stayed out of military situation like this.

Response by SSgt Kahlil Guinn made Sep 19 at 2016 4:47 PM

SSgt Kahlil Guinn — Mon, 19 Sep 2016 16:47:38 -0400

I can see this happening back in the 90's when I was active... nowadays not so much

Response by MAJ Thomas Taylor made Sep 19 at 2016 7:11 PM

MAJ Thomas Taylor — Mon, 19 Sep 2016 19:11:03 -0400

Don't think "who the fuck are you " is ever the proper response.

Response by Cpl Kevin Frey made Sep 19 at 2016 8:04 PM

Cpl Kevin Frey — Mon, 19 Sep 2016 20:04:27 -0400

The young Marine was in the wrong all the way, if the officer identified himself this Marine should be charged with insubordination, evidently has mommy issues if he has his mommy running with him on a Marine base. The officer maybe should have not entered into screaming match, but the total lack of respect from the junior Marine, I can't blame him.
In respect to the Sergeant Major, he is completely good with me snatching that young man up and removing him from the PX so as not to allow him to embarrass the Marine Corps anymore than he already has.

Response by SMSgt Ed Turney made Sep 19 at 2016 8:11 PM

SMSgt Ed Turney — Mon, 19 Sep 2016 20:11:01 -0400

Now you know why he is a Sgt Major.

Response by SFC William Fedderly made Sep 19 at 2016 10:50 PM

SFC William Fedderly — Mon, 19 Sep 2016 22:50:15 -0400

This is a great learning point. I have not been in the corps but as a senior NCO with 31 years of service, I have seen my share of this scenario. It sounds like this took place on a training post. Either way. Both the officer and the marine were out of line. An old line from my sergeants major "praise in public correct in private". This does not say whether the officer was in uniform or ID'd themselves. Now for the sergeants major (or the proper name for the E9 in the marines). The only issue I see is putting his hands on a soldier (marine) with out lawful justification. Now before I'm crushed with negative remarks, this is based off facts presented by the Col. First action, deescalate the situation. Move it out of the public eye. The E9 will need to assess the situation and make corrective action and notifications if necessary. We sr nco's are the professionals we are to lead by example.

SFC Fedderly (Ret)

Response by SFC William Fedderly made Sep 19 at 2016 10:59 PM

SFC William Fedderly — Mon, 19 Sep 2016 22:59:03 -0400

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2016 12:08 AM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 00:08:09 -0400

This does not seem like that bad of a reaction. Understandable

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2016 12:54 AM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 00:54:11 -0400

I expected marines to be more respectful then that that marine deserves what he got

Response by PO1 Todd Cousins made Sep 20 at 2016 3:11 AM

PO1 Todd Cousins — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 03:11:30 -0400

Wow just had this pop up in my feed and I am glad it did. What we are seeing is the change in people with the newest generation of young service members. This example is the same as the young sailor who sat through colors while recording it. We have many young service members that are challenging to leaders today though I admit that hearing about it in the corps surprises this doc. The SgtMaj handled this well from my view and I am sure the junior officer heard something from him or another senior enlisted about his behavior as well.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2016 3:18 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 03:18:38 -0400

Maybe both are millennial generations and only big difference one is an officer and one is enlisted... oh well, enlisted guy better prepare for trouble. As I noticed with younger airmen now, that they think they are equal or has more rights than older NCOs, cant even tell them to clean up after themselves. and some has audacity to answer back for example if you tell them to take the trash out, some answer back saying why can you do it yourself? and due to its the whiny air force and airmen are untouchables, instead I have to tell them the story that once long time ago, we have GI parties where we airmen have to clean up the whole building and if you don't show up you get in trouble. and sometimes we have to paint rocks.

Response by LCpl Mac Fields made Sep 20 at 2016 3:59 AM

LCpl Mac Fields — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 03:59:51 -0400

If it was just a little ways from the exit I can see someone dawning their cover before exiting a px, happens all the time at Stumps, hell even I've done cause I had stuff to carry and the doors are literally about 30 feet from the check out lines.
Also was this young officer in or out of uniform ? I can't see any PFC or LCPL giving shit to a clearly marked officer.
As for the SgtMaj I can see that part actually happening.
As for the young marines mother..
She can shout all she wants her son belongs to the corps now, if she doesn't like it then tough shit !

Response by PO3 BillTank Beauman made Sep 20 at 2016 4:38 AM

PO3 BillTank Beauman — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 04:38:07 -0400

The marine disrespected a senior officer and the mother should keep her trap shut before she makes things worse for her son.

Response by SGT Johnny Owens made Sep 20 at 2016 6:14 AM

SGT Johnny Owens — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 06:14:48 -0400

Respect is mutual. Tact was among my first lessons.

Response by LCpl Michael Merritt made Sep 20 at 2016 6:31 AM

LCpl Michael Merritt — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 06:31:39 -0400

Sgt Major was completely right. Grab them both by the collar and pull their asses outside. There are children in there, and that behavior is unbecoming of an officer in the Marines. Hell they are lucky Sgt Major isn't making them push or dig 50 cal pits for the next lifetime.

Response by Evaristo Melendez Jr made Sep 20 at 2016 7:05 AM

Evaristo Melendez Jr — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 07:05:26 -0400

Initially handle properly except the junior officer should have taken the name found the marines CO and advised them of what occured. Sgt Major is god and they all will suffer!

Response by CPT Erik Lawson made Sep 20 at 2016 7:07 AM

CPT Erik Lawson — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 07:07:17 -0400

Having the first 13 years in my 23 year military career in the Marine Corps infantry I know the culture. The junior officer was correct in the on spot correction. Though other services may not agree with the strict adherence of these regulations, on a Marine Base indoors, you don't wear your cover, period.

That being said, the guilty Marine was wrong in his reply to the correction. The fact the both of them began to escalate in verbal vulgar assault in an open setting where families were present now places them both in the wrong. Were they in the field, it would be permissive but in the MCX, not a chance.

The SgtMaj acted as the responsible professional that the other two failed to be. Taking the Marine by the collar is not the preferred course of action but immediate steps needed to be taken. The mother needs to cut the cord. Her son is now a U.S. Marine, he may be her son but if you are not going to parent his conduct, then the SgtMaj will do the job for you. Just don't get in his way!

Well done SgtMaj, thanks for maintaining the Marine Corps standard. To the two arguing, square yourselves away and remember you're Marines! Semper Fi, Ooo-Rah!

SSgt Lawson
STA Plt 1/24
(1992-2006)

Response by SSgt Herschel Miers made Sep 20 at 2016 7:11 AM

SSgt Herschel Miers — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 07:11:47 -0400

Definitely not officers and a Sgtmaj is nor going to put his hands on a marine, he doesn't have to.

Response by LCpl Cory Howard made Sep 20 at 2016 8:45 AM

LCpl Cory Howard — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 08:45:06 -0400

That young Marine will be kicked out with an OTH or dishonorable discharge lrobably very sooner rather later. What a disrelsectful dumbass. The young Marine and his defensive mommy were wrong in this situation. Maybe she should of taught hhim respect since Corps couldnt do it. Lol

Response by SPC Don Wynn made Sep 20 at 2016 8:52 AM

SPC Don Wynn — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 08:52:23 -0400

I would say at the very least! Just for the 'who the eff are you?' deal. Then continuing to escalate to arguing with the JO! In civvies or not, response is always 'yes sir' and shut your mouth! That a SGM had to get involved?? I'm going to assume brought before the mast (is that correct? Army it's AR-15 proceeding) with loss of rank, either permanent or temporary and some forfeiture of pay! However, it appears some things were maybe not totally detailed. Were they both in civvies? Would make more sense for the 'who the eff are you' response and the escalation. This could also be a factor in the discipline phase. Just sayin'.......

Response by GySgt David Ellison made Sep 20 at 2016 10:59 AM

GySgt David Ellison — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 10:59:24 -0400

Praise in public, discipline in private. Both the officer and the enlisted were wrong. SgtMaj did the right thing, mothers have no part in MC discipline and should stay quite.

Response by Sonja Jones made Sep 20 at 2016 11:47 AM

Sonja Jones — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 11:47:05 -0400

If you can't follow the rules we can't trust him to have our six now can we?

Response by 1LT David Remington made Sep 20 at 2016 12:07 PM

1LT David Remington — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 12:07:44 -0400

Extra duty? Maybe, but it would've been a page 11 entry along with it. If there was any attitude attached to the counseling, it would've been sent up the chain for office hours.

Response by Cpl Jason Hodges made Sep 20 at 2016 12:18 PM

Cpl Jason Hodges — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 12:18:21 -0400

Dishonorable discharge that little bitch

Response by Cpl David Braden made Sep 20 at 2016 1:42 PM

Cpl David Braden — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 13:42:20 -0400

He's a Marine!! Act like one, or you'll be treated like one!! We have a higher level of discipline that needs to be adhered to!!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2016 2:08 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 14:08:16 -0400

that young marine was an idiot for arguing with a person just trying to look out for him. im curious as to what SgtMaj did to him after though hahaha

Response by PFC Thomas Taylor made Sep 20 at 2016 2:35 PM

PFC Thomas Taylor — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 14:35:31 -0400

Most junior enlisted are in fear of officers and would not, likely, scream at one. The officer should know better than to argue with the young man. In my experience, he would simply get the young Marine's name and unit and take it up with his command staff. I also have no doubt that the SGM would walk a hole in both of their asses, starting with the enlisted soldier. A SGM learns over his career how to put anyone and everyone in their place (including the mother).

Response by Leanne Reynolds made Sep 20 at 2016 6:10 PM

Leanne Reynolds — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 18:10:19 -0400

Dear Mother, you son is not a boy, he's a Marine. A Marine followers orders without question because if he does not it could cost him his life.

Response by CPL Maurice Myrick made Sep 20 at 2016 6:26 PM

CPL Maurice Myrick — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 18:26:47 -0400

Whole lot extra duty, retraining and I can only image no covers inside. All he had to do is remove the head gear.

Response by SPC Jeffrey Humphries made Sep 20 at 2016 6:28 PM

SPC Jeffrey Humphries — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 18:28:09 -0400

I was always under the understanding that you never wore a cover inside unless your hands are full and can't get it off right away. Higher command should have known that

Response by Cpl Brian Adams made Sep 20 at 2016 6:41 PM

Cpl Brian Adams — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 18:41:42 -0400

Pretty easy. Follow the rules and traditions of our Corps and this would have never happened. Someone always thinks that they are special. And I don't care if he is a butter bar with no deployments, the enlisted boot knew he was wrong.

Response by LCpl Jim Heppler made Sep 20 at 2016 7:45 PM

LCpl Jim Heppler — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 19:45:17 -0400

When told to remove your cover, remove your cover, he should have never put it on indoors in the first place, henceforth making himself an Asshat. His actions brought about the entire chain of events

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2016 9:44 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 21:44:02 -0400

The young Marine was definitely wrong, he should have removed his cover even if a PVT corrected him. And the Officer should have handled things more calmly and professionally.

Response by Sgt Allen Brown made Sep 20 at 2016 11:50 PM

Sgt Allen Brown — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 23:50:01 -0400

NJP for the enlisted Marine for disrespect to an officer, charges of unbecoming of an officer to the young officer or a good talking to my his CO, and to the SgtMaj nothing you can not do anything to god (lower case g)

Response by CPL Brad Greene made Sep 21 at 2016 12:43 AM

CPL Brad Greene — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 00:43:29 -0400

He screwed up! 45 and 45 coming up.

Response by Cpl Rashad Hollywood made Sep 21 at 2016 4:03 AM

Cpl Rashad Hollywood — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 04:03:50 -0400

Marines no better point blank period......

Response by MAJ Richard Cheek made Sep 21 at 2016 7:41 AM

MAJ Richard Cheek — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 07:41:24 -0400

Depends if the person was a recruit not a problem. If he/she was a Marine, no. When I was a Drill Sergeant in the Army I had a father get all mad that I was treating his son unfairly. I told him sir with all do respect you had him for 18 years and didn't do S**t for him. I want to make him an Infantryman. But if you want him back I'll expedite his discharge. Otherwise come back at 1630 he'll be done.

Response by SSgt Adam Luzier made Sep 21 at 2016 9:15 AM

SSgt Adam Luzier — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 09:15:44 -0400

USAF also not permitted to wear hat/cover indoors. Young enlisted could have forgotten and the younger officer was right in correcting him. The young Marine with his mother was in the wrong. Period. Now referring to an incident that happened to me many moons ago. I was approached at the BX at Sheppard AFB by an Army officer in uniform, I was in civilian clothing and unshaven since I was off duty. The officer proceeded to ask me if the Air Force no longer required men to shave? I responded by telling him I was off duty and not in uniform and he told me that didn't matter and I should have shaved before leaving the dorm. Mined you in those days I only needed to shave about twice a week, lol.

Response by Cpl Chris Rond made Sep 21 at 2016 9:54 AM

Cpl Chris Rond — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 09:54:03 -0400

It's sad that this is how things are changing and turning in the military. It really ticks me off that the respect is going away along with the discipline. Semper Fi this punk deserved whatever SgtMaj has coming to him. Probably needs to be hazed for a bit. Just like a I was told prior to going into the fleet hazing is amazing if not being hazed then not being trained.

Response by SPC Don Wynn made Sep 21 at 2016 1:37 PM

SPC Don Wynn — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 13:37:35 -0400

First response was the last question. As far as how should it be handled; if JO was loud and forceful, wrong. That said, young Marine needs to show respect and do as told. That JO escalated the encounter, further in the wrong. SGM was correct at that point as it sounds like 2 young Marines were showing their asses and being an embarrassment to the Corps.

Response by SPC Paul Hudson Jr. made Sep 21 at 2016 3:21 PM

SPC Paul Hudson Jr. — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 15:21:38 -0400

No cover inside

Response by Cpl Jim Gilstrap made Sep 21 at 2016 3:36 PM

Cpl Jim Gilstrap — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 15:36:33 -0400

Wasn't there, do not know how it all went down. I would never have yelled at an Officer unless there was some need to be sounding off or in combat just to convey thru the noise. I certainly never in a place where family members would be shopping. I have a feeling the SgtMaj had some words about this after escorting him out of the MCX. I never heard anyone tell me I could not wear a hat in the MCX.

Response by PFC Sasha Carpenter made Sep 21 at 2016 3:53 PM

PFC Sasha Carpenter — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 15:53:24 -0400

Would correct the marine in the wrong the deal with the one who made the situation worse

Response by MGySgt Michael English made Sep 21 at 2016 4:12 PM

MGySgt Michael English — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 16:12:26 -0400

Sorry just do not believe the scenario. A young Marine would not act this way; however if he did the Young Marine would naturally pay for the disrespect, officer should not have lost his cool, and SgtMaj moved it out privately as should have happened. The mother is politely taken out of the picture. The true picture is the leadership shown to this Marine with the SgtMaj.

Response by PFC Brandon Heuermann made Sep 21 at 2016 4:35 PM

PFC Brandon Heuermann — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 16:35:42 -0400

The JO, from what I read, was initially correct in how he began handling the situation. The younger Marine was out of line. Never wear a cover inside. Usually, however, to avoid a scene, situations like that are recorded and then handled at a later date, at least when I was in SSgt Wiznoski handled it like that.

Response by Cpl Johnny Eggemeyer made Sep 21 at 2016 4:38 PM

Cpl Johnny Eggemeyer — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 16:38:43 -0400

The enlisted marine was in the wrong. Marines do not wear covers indoors, bottom line.

Response by Shelia Easley made Sep 21 at 2016 4:43 PM

Shelia Easley — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 16:43:57 -0400

I am a fairly new Marine mom. I can assure you, had my son ever had his cover on inside, it wouldn't have taken another Marine to rectify that situation. With that said, the mother should ever have stepped in. As far as the Marines shouting at each other over the cover, way out of line on both sides. The Sargent Major should NEVER had had to step into that situation. I promise you, had I seen this play out and heard that big burly voice, I might have hit the deck as well.

Response by Cheryl Ritz made Sep 21 at 2016 7:36 PM

Cheryl Ritz — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 19:36:11 -0400

The SgtMaj did nothing wrong in my opinion, as for the mother, WOW!!! He might be your son ma'am, but he belongs to the Corps.

Response by SPC Martin Marquez made Sep 21 at 2016 7:53 PM

SPC Martin Marquez — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 19:53:23 -0400

Extra duty, pt, loss of rank, much more.

Response by Sgt Don Moore made Sep 21 at 2016 9:04 PM

Sgt Don Moore — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 21:04:48 -0400

Regardless of how the officer initiated the situation, the Marine should not have responded in the manner that he did. If this played out the way it did, I have to wonder where Marine Training is going. During my time in, no properly trained Marine of entry level rank to at least Gunny would never have said that to an officer's face. I can see a Sergeant Major saying that to a boot lieuy, but not in public.

Response by LCpl Craig Thompson made Sep 21 at 2016 9:07 PM

LCpl Craig Thompson — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 21:07:23 -0400

I would have done the same thing that and added fucking phone watch to the equation for like a month. nothing pissed marines off more than for their personal time to be taken away

Response by PO1 Chuck Cruise made Sep 21 at 2016 9:41 PM

PO1 Chuck Cruise — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 21:41:01 -0400

Being the story doesn't specify if the Marine with his mother was in civilian attire and wearing a hat indoors, or he was in uniform wearing a cover, sounds like thing got blown way out of proportion. Most MCCS facilities like the MC Exchange have a dress code. There are also regulations prohibiting one from wearing a hat indoors in base. If true, it could have been handled better. A few years back in Jacksonville, NC, they got a bit zealous with this with a directive being published prohibiting the wearing of hats indoors on or off base. We had a few incidents of over zealous Staff NCO's going to Country Bars where most of the patrons Military and Civilian would wear Western Wear including Cowboy Hats and Ball Caps. These over zealous Staff NCO's would intrude upon patrons, demand to see Military ID and attempt to enforce the No Hat Indoor Policy off base. More often than not, these zealots would be exported out of the establishment by Security and be barred from returning. As a Navy Retiree, (I have a beard mind you) I have heard the words "Hey Marine" directed at me by one of these self proclaimed enforcers. Since I'm a Sailor and don't answer to "Hey Marine" I generally ignore these people, just as I did while on active duty. In Yuma, when I was anot HM1, I had a young sergeant who obviously did not know Navy Rank pull the same stunt on me. I had just come in from the field on an admin run to the base and he was going nuts over my wearing a Boonie Cover (Command Authorized) and my sleeves down. He persisted after I identified myself as a First Class Petty Officer. Let's just say he got an education that day.

Response by Sgt Ray Babb made Sep 21 at 2016 10:49 PM

Sgt Ray Babb — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 22:49:33 -0400

Wall to Wall counseling

Response by Sgt Daniel Morrison made Sep 22 at 2016 12:32 AM

Sgt Daniel Morrison — Thu, 22 Sep 2016 00:32:55 -0400

Lmao, that young Marine is about to learn respect the hard way. That mother has to understand that her "boy" is the property of the Corps and as such subject to discipline Marine style. I wouldn't want to be that Marine.

Response by LCpl Tim Cochran made Sep 22 at 2016 7:23 AM

LCpl Tim Cochran — Thu, 22 Sep 2016 07:23:42 -0400

Butter Bars Vs SgtMaj... story gave me a chub.. and that young devil pup gets to feel the big green weenie for a while.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2016 8:00 AM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 Sep 2016 08:00:25 -0400

1st mistake, putting on the cover inside. 2nd talking back to a junior officer. 3rd having mommy defend him. She is probably the one to blame for his attitude. Didnt ever teach his baby how to be a man much less how to be respectfull. The service will teach him what ever way the want. He chosed the service. HONOR, RESPECT, DEVOTION TO DUTY; USCG.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2016 9:03 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 Sep 2016 09:03:10 -0400

The SGM was the only one whom of which acted accordingly

Response by Cpl Matt Maddux made Sep 22 at 2016 11:44 AM

Cpl Matt Maddux — Thu, 22 Sep 2016 11:44:06 -0400

The officer should have had more tact and told the marine who he was. The marine should have corrected himself and thanked the officer for having his back before someone decided to push paper on him. And the SgtMaj, well he was just doing his job.

Response by Cpl Tommy Cater made Sep 22 at 2016 12:25 PM

Cpl Tommy Cater — Thu, 22 Sep 2016 12:25:03 -0400

I dont really believe a marine would make that mistake but he would never disrespect the officer

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2016 12:33 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 Sep 2016 12:33:57 -0400

If and when I have to make an on the spot correction when in civilian clothes, I will calmly approach the person, and with DoD ID (CAC) in hand, will identify myself and then proceed to make the correction. This prevents the "Who the F*%k are you?" conversation.

Response by MSgt Mike (Lobo VNV Original) Morrow made Sep 22 at 2016 1:36 PM

MSgt Mike (Lobo VNV Original) Morrow — Thu, 22 Sep 2016 13:36:11 -0400

The young Marine was out of line with the question especially if the officer was in uniform, but I have my doubts he was. The officer handled the situation badly by having a shouting match with the Marine. the Sgt-Maj did the right thing. As to the extra duty the young Marine will be lucky to escape a court martial.

Response by PO3 Nichalas Enser made Sep 22 at 2016 1:47 PM

PO3 Nichalas Enser — Thu, 22 Sep 2016 13:47:11 -0400

Have had the pleasure of interacting, a bit, but mostly reading COL Mikel J. Burroughs other questions and responses. Regardless of whether this happened (such things do happen, daily, everywhere, after all, so why grouse?); the question was about leadership.

The initial servicemember was obviously at fault. It should not matter if it is an E-1 correcting you or an 0-11 (if they ever make another)! The only response is to fix the discrepancy and move along. Making the assumption that the JO was not in uniform, if they were, then this the initial servicemember has bigger issues that his home unit need to sort ASAP - if any SgtMaj or CSM became involved, they would likely know very, very soon, too!

Many others have noted that the JO needs to review how, best, to handle such a situation, since they will arise, whether directly (like this) or indirectly (where their instructions and orders are more slyly challenged).

The SgtMaj did exactly the right thing - he stopped the public escalation of what should have been a two-second encounter.

Response by Pvt Randy Warman made Sep 22 at 2016 4:17 PM

Pvt Randy Warman — Thu, 22 Sep 2016 16:17:43 -0400

remove your cover

Response by LCpl Jacob Meyers made Sep 22 at 2016 4:56 PM

LCpl Jacob Meyers — Thu, 22 Sep 2016 16:56:42 -0400

Handled the way it should have been

Response by MSgt Douglas Bedell made Sep 22 at 2016 5:40 PM

MSgt Douglas Bedell — Thu, 22 Sep 2016 17:40:38 -0400

I'm sorry but after nearly 20 years in the Air Force it was an unwritten "law" that cover was not to be worn indoors. The officer attempted to handle the situation properly until provoked by a total lack of disrespect for his rank by the young marine. His loss of temper, while justified, was not very becoming given the locale. The Sgt. Major diffused the situation correctly and the grabbing of the collar was also warranted because I doubt seriously the young marine would have gone out of the MCX if asked nicely. Thank you for the opportunity to weigh in here with my opinion.

Response by GySgt William Hardy made Sep 22 at 2016 6:13 PM

GySgt William Hardy — Thu, 22 Sep 2016 18:13:43 -0400

Corrections should be brought to the attention of any military member, but it should be done with tact. I remember a SgtMaj who simply said, "Uncover!" and went on his way. I once came out of the HQ Building for the 2nd Marine Air Wing and saluted several officers. A WO friend of mine stopped and talked to me for a minute. I saluted him and went on to my car where my wife and sons were waiting. My oldest was about 6 at the time and he said, "Why is you hat on backwards?" I was wearing a garrison cover and did not notice I had placed the EGA on the back of my head and not the front.

Response by Capt Michael Greene made Sep 22 at 2016 6:15 PM

Capt Michael Greene — Thu, 22 Sep 2016 18:15:27 -0400

Wow. Dirt all around.
The young Marine commits a minor infraction. The JO embarrasses him in public. Young grunt reacts horribly. The Sgt Maj loses it (and commits assault?)

Their respective commanders need to privately counsel each of the three and help them understand how they could have done this better. IF, IF, there are no other factors, no history of problem behavior, then I would 1) ask the Sgt Maj privately what contributed to his physical overreaction, 2) tell the JO that, upon receiving the young Marine's backtalk, he should have taken it outside, excused the mom--very politely--for a moment, and identified the young Marine's ID card for further "discussion" later. 3) The young Marine, if he's got a clean record, needs to pee in the bottle, apologize to the JO, and then perform a few extra shifts at the main gate, saluting cars.

I had a somewhat similar event at a squadron picnic. A drunk GI loudly told his friends that he wished all the "officers and assholes" would go away. He meant for me to hear it and be offended in public. Considering the crowd and the alcohol involved, I walked away. Next day, I chewed his ass in my office, found an old OSI investigator who agreed to bounce the guy around for a bit in an interrogation room, then sent him to pee in the bottle. Pop! Cocaine. Discharge.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2016 6:40 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 Sep 2016 18:40:17 -0400

It doesn't matter of the rank,what matters is the Marine with his cover on deserves what he got. He was wrong and should know the proper way to wear that uniform. As a Navy Doc that served many years with the Marines,this is one thing I really loved about them,and that's the pride they have for that uniform and the Corps! You police your own before they instill bad habits onto others.

Response by Sgt Doug Grafton made Sep 22 at 2016 7:00 PM

Sgt Doug Grafton — Thu, 22 Sep 2016 19:00:31 -0400

The "Marine"...and I use that title loosely, blew it twice. The young Officer also blew it by getting into a pissing match with the lad. In "The Old Corps" the SgtMaj would have done more than grab that youngster by the stacking swivel. In today's Corps he will undoubtedly be forced to retire, if not busted over this.
I was active duty USN and USMC for almost 20 years. After that, I was a civilian supervisor in the Lejeune 911 center for 14 more years. Believe it or not, there were several occasions where we received calls from Gunnery Sergeants, and even Sergeants Majors, requesting law enforcement to respond because some Marine or Sailor was being disrespectful or in violation of something along the lines of this hat incident here. All I could do was shake my head, and thank God I got out when I did. Semper Fi

Response by Cpl Nathaniel Nation made Sep 22 at 2016 7:41 PM

Cpl Nathaniel Nation — Thu, 22 Sep 2016 19:41:19 -0400

First, when the young Marine asked the officer, who the f was he, the junior officer was suppose to give rank and military. Second, you Damn right the SgtMaj did right. Some youngons tend to forget their training and respect.

Response by 1SG Glenn Boxley made Sep 22 at 2016 8:08 PM

1SG Glenn Boxley — Thu, 22 Sep 2016 20:08:14 -0400

Good on the SGT MAJ! Some DI failed to eat this boy for breakfast weeks ago, and thus should have kept him on a short chain until the boy understood who owns him! Anyway; who in thunder does the mother think SHE is???? Nobody cares what she thinks here!

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2016 12:19 AM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 00:19:13 -0400

I agree with both wrong. 1 marine for wearing a cover inside, the other marine for incorrectly correcting the other.

Response by SGT Keith Wilson made Sep 23 at 2016 1:07 AM

SGT Keith Wilson — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 01:07:21 -0400

Not sure on this , if there was anything it should have been about face let it go and live to fight another day. But the tank took care of it. At the end only one can say for sure.

Response by Cpl Keith Adams made Sep 23 at 2016 1:18 AM

Cpl Keith Adams — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 01:18:00 -0400

Reminds me of a cadence... Mothers of America meek and mild, send to me your sweet young child. No matter what if anyone walks up to you and ask you to do something that's within regs... you should listen. It's really disrespectful for young Marine to become belligerent, that a SgtMaj had to step in...

Response by Sgt Randy Alexandre made Sep 23 at 2016 1:37 AM

Sgt Randy Alexandre — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 01:37:59 -0400

Young marine mom was right beside the guy. Brass should have pull the cover not the marine.

Response by Kimberly Roberts made Sep 23 at 2016 1:52 AM

Kimberly Roberts — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 01:52:24 -0400

Being a marine wife and working for camp Pendleton px area 62, this story seems a little far fetched. In all the years that I lived and worked there never did I see anyone that would be remotely disrespectful while families were present. Yes there were some situations when someone was drinking a little too much and didn't want to leave, but even when you are piss ass drunk and a co confronts you, you sober up real fast. Now for this situation even as a civilian I know better than to wear a hat inside a building only exception is when you are under arms, or you are working around food. It is a respect thing and if this truly did happen then the young marine was way out of line and when he was addressed should have taken it off regardless of who was talking to him. And the mother should have kept her mouth shut!

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2016 7:20 AM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 07:20:18 -0400

It's the marines, I wouldn't expect anything less. The young marine should get the shit smoked out of him for running his mouth and the mother needs to learn her place and shut the hell up. She knew what her son was signing up for.

Response by Cpl Joe Louis Careri made Sep 23 at 2016 7:46 AM

Cpl Joe Louis Careri — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 07:46:37 -0400

Well to begin with, was the junior officer in uniform? If he was in uniform the young Marine should have obeyed the command...if the junior officer was not in uniform, he should have told the Marine in a diplomatic way that only Marines under arms can wear a cover indoors..either way the mother should not have gotten involved with Marine Corps drama...you gotta earn your right to speak out..OOH RAH!

Response by Cpl Don Razskazoff made Sep 23 at 2016 8:57 AM

Cpl Don Razskazoff — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 08:57:30 -0400

1961.......that was one of two times I was "thumped" by my DI, for wearing my cover inside my tent at Camp Matthews......the other time, I blew my nose while we were standing in formation listening to him address the platoon on the MCRD "Grinder"......(actually he was at fault too, because he "broke ranks" getting to me to thump me, I never saw him coming!)......I was subjected to about 10 minutes of "front leaning rest" position while he finished addressing the platoon. I'm sure other Marines can relate, and now over 50 years later I look upon it as a "badge of honor" that I was in at a time when there were not the "politically correct" restrictions on "thumping", and general Rules of Engagement. Three cheers for the Sgt Major, and boos to the Jr. Officer that should have done I differently......but then I always disliked Jr. Officers

Response by SSgt Hekeke Perez made Sep 23 at 2016 10:29 AM

SSgt Hekeke Perez — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 10:29:58 -0400

Scream at the disrespectful marine. He was taught better then that

Response by LCpl Rico Quinones made Sep 23 at 2016 11:12 AM

LCpl Rico Quinones — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 11:12:50 -0400

Little entitled sack of shit earned it. This isn't mommy's house. You don't frikin disrespect a commissioned office. Don't give a damn who your mommy is. Lots of big rocks waiting to become little rocks for that idiot... Well done SgtMaj

Response by LCpl Rico Quinones made Sep 23 at 2016 11:19 AM

LCpl Rico Quinones — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 11:19:59 -0400

So reading this I have to say, that in the Marine Corps I served in, we would never have seen this crap go down. I don't care if it was a butter bar or full bird. You see brass you lock your body. They say jump you say how high. One of the first things you learn in boot camp is take you cover off indoors. Showing off to mommy is gonna get you a nice little NJP.

Response by CPL Tim Hager made Sep 23 at 2016 12:15 PM

CPL Tim Hager — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 12:15:36 -0400

It was handled the proper way. Suck it up and drive on.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2016 12:24 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 12:24:45 -0400

25 yrs ago, the junior Marine would be a Pvt, the next day, on extra duty for the rest of his natural life, and restricted to his barracks forever. The young officer would be called into the CO's office, possibly with the SgtMaj there, and given the ass chewing of a lifetime! ALL AFTER the kid's mom smacked the crap out of her son for the he spoke in front of her! Today, the SgtMaj wiil probably be forced to retire, the kid will have a chaplain assigned to him, and the young officer will still get an ass chewing!

Response by Sgt Martha Artiga-McKinney made Sep 23 at 2016 12:59 PM

Sgt Martha Artiga-McKinney — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 12:59:39 -0400

Maybe both the officer and the Sgt major should have introduced themselves and the boot wouldn't of got so defensive

Response by Cpl Michael Buba made Sep 23 at 2016 1:05 PM

Cpl Michael Buba — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 13:05:26 -0400

That's what Sgt Majors do!

Response by Sgt Jesse Codamon made Sep 23 at 2016 1:34 PM

Sgt Jesse Codamon — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 13:34:26 -0400

I have been out almost thirty years and yes, I have seen the calibre of recruits (with attitude ) that were coming in. They were calling their mommies to call their their congressmen as to how they have been treated horribly. The new Corps I supposed, but the bottom line is that they couldn't suck it up. That young Marine in question needs to be put in his place and take the consequences. I don't care if he was having a bad day that day. Semper fi, do or die.

Response by SSgt William Pritchard made Sep 23 at 2016 4:42 PM

SSgt William Pritchard — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 16:42:48 -0400

Office Hours in the works. Disrespect toward the Officer. Read the UCMJ

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2016 4:56 PM

LCpl Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 16:56:18 -0400

True or not, it's a good read.

Response by Cpl Knedra Kay Woodfork made Sep 23 at 2016 7:18 PM

Cpl Knedra Kay Woodfork — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 19:18:22 -0400

If I were that marines senior. I would push to have him NJP'd for disrespect to a officer. He knows damn well he shouldn't have busted out on that officer regardless of his position. Rather he be a 2ndLT or a Full Bird Co. He needs to learn how to handle his anger. Fuck that you're a fucking marine.

Response by LCpl Bob Burnett made Sep 23 at 2016 7:52 PM

LCpl Bob Burnett — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 19:52:57 -0400

I don't understand the question?

Response by LCpl Doug Norris made Sep 23 at 2016 8:55 PM

LCpl Doug Norris — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 20:55:50 -0400

Stationed in Okinawa in the early 80's it's not surprising sometimes to see a Marine lose composer, especially around family, not now, no military bs please. But the Marine is a Marine 24/7 , right ,wrong , good bad or ugly, that is the commitment. What sounds to me that sparked all of this is the two going head to head at one another, this would make any branch of the service look bad. Marine would have complied ,even if he was reminded by someone lower rank, and removed his cover, nothing would have came of this. Seen Marines continue to jog when reveille was broadcasting loud across the base. Talk about stirring up some emotions when this occurs, "oh my"!!... This was a situation easily avoided. I would have jumped that Marine myself, but not to a point of laying my hands on him, continued being belligerent ask for his ID, and reported the incident to his commanding officer, and trust me, that a bit of news no commanding officer wants to hear.

Response by Jason Mullins made Sep 23 at 2016 9:06 PM

Jason Mullins — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 21:06:11 -0400

Shouldve just taken the advice. Maybe he was tryin to act tough for his mom but that backfired hard. I'd have him cut the grass with scissors for a month if I had rank above him

Response by PFC Ronald Maddox made Sep 23 at 2016 11:03 PM

PFC Ronald Maddox — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 23:03:55 -0400

This is too stupid to be real. Marines in my experience respect rank especially as an e-1 to e-3. That SgtMaj should smoke the piss out of both of those idiots

Response by SSG Keith Becker made Sep 24 at 2016 12:56 AM

SSG Keith Becker — Sat, 24 Sep 2016 00:56:23 -0400

First are the active duty in performance of their duties (i.e. OOD, etc). Second, if they are civilians and no signs posted well.....Lastly, Respect show this and be tactful when addressing the issue

Response by Sgt Justin Kane made Sep 24 at 2016 1:14 AM

Sgt Justin Kane — Sat, 24 Sep 2016 01:14:21 -0400

Bahaha kid should lose a stripe if he even has one and take pay for a few months that's what they did when we were at Pendleton.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2016 7:55 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Sep 2016 07:55:37 -0400

I have a hard time believing that a Armed Service man would not obey what he was trained to do. Since it did the Sergeant Major did exactly what he should have done. He took charge of the situation and escorted the Marine out of the store to deal with the infraction.

The mother was stupid, he is no longer her son first. He like all other service men and women belong to the government first. Their duty is to their oath that we all take. That is just the way it is deal with it.

To answer the last question, yes at the very least their will be extra duty in the Marines future. Most likely a letter of correction in his permanent file that will cling to his back for the rest of his career. I will also say he does deserve it. The junior officer should have once attempted to correct the superior office once they are no longer in a "so public place/area" . Once the correction had been made and no attempt by the other to comply with a lawful correction, he should have just reported it to his chain of command and moved on.

SSGT Brault

Response by SPC Justin Knock made Sep 24 at 2016 11:39 AM

SPC Justin Knock — Sat, 24 Sep 2016 11:39:38 -0400

Gotta learn respect!!! If your told to remove your cover then remove it ( which he shouldn't have put on in the 1st place). If not consequences to come and I'm sure they did!!

Response by SSG Andres Guarnizo made Sep 24 at 2016 12:03 PM

SSG Andres Guarnizo — Sat, 24 Sep 2016 12:03:04 -0400

So I will make an assumption that everyone was in uniform. No way shape of former should that junior enlisted respond that way to anyone. Not even a civilian, especially if he new he was wrong. The junior officer must've thought he was a drill sergeant and lose his bearing in the MCX. Definitely not a place with families and children around, there is a time and place for everything. He should've got the name and rank and unit of that enlisted and handled it there. Lots of ways to handle that without being an ass hat about it. As for the SGM, no questions asked, he is always right even when he is wrong. That junior enlisted will have a nice few weeks to recalibrate his attitude on extra duty.

Response by Cpl Douglas Johnson made Sep 24 at 2016 12:22 PM

Cpl Douglas Johnson — Sat, 24 Sep 2016 12:22:39 -0400

Young Marine- Article 15 would have been appropriate for disrespect to the officer and not following uniform regulations.
Junior Officer- OK up to the point it turned into a shouting match. Don't get into a shouting match, fast track the young Marine to an Article 15. He must own up to his actions that did not set a positive example on how to handle the situation.

Sgt Major- took charge and defused the situation in a manner that insured that he would not be miss quoted, miss understood or ignored. Escorting the young Marine out of the MCX for a counseling session defused the situation further. He must support Article 15 against young Marine while reminding the junior officer of his conduct and his lack of responsibility to maintain control and to set a positive example is such situations.

Marine's Mother- stay out of Marine business. He is still your son, but he earned the title of Marine and he is currently "owned" by the Marines Corps. Cut the apron strings and realize that your conduct reinforces your son's negative punk like behavior.

Response by Pvt Joe Garry made Sep 24 at 2016 3:16 PM

Pvt Joe Garry — Sat, 24 Sep 2016 15:16:53 -0400

Only if you are armed

Response by MSgt Timothy Terhune made Sep 24 at 2016 3:44 PM

MSgt Timothy Terhune — Sat, 24 Sep 2016 15:44:48 -0400

I think the Junior Officer was correct in correcting the young Marine. The young Marines response was wrong, doesn't matter if they were junior enlisted or officer. The professionalism wad not there. The E9 grabbing and escorting him out I did not have a problem with. The mother is the one I had a problem with.

Response by Timothy Dobbs made Sep 24 at 2016 5:08 PM

Timothy Dobbs — Sat, 24 Sep 2016 17:08:50 -0400

i'd have approached it differently by talking to him after everything is done and what not

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2016 6:57 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Sep 2016 18:57:22 -0400

Correct the officer with tact.

Response by SPC Rich Hille made Sep 24 at 2016 10:06 PM

SPC Rich Hille — Sat, 24 Sep 2016 22:06:29 -0400

The enlisted marine was out of order . he should have obeyed and moved on.The sgtmaj was correct and he saved the young marines career.

Response by Maj John Rivero made Sep 24 at 2016 10:15 PM

Maj John Rivero — Sat, 24 Sep 2016 22:15:19 -0400

Iam retired from military,served 28 years ten marines eighteen officer..I was in the navy exchange when a young marine and navy lt.junior grade,got into a heated pissing contest.There were very young children near by.NO ONE seemed to want to stop the situation.I shouted in my command voice[ATTENTIONHUT] Ithen saw a LTcommander standing by and said ''sirplease take control of this situation''] he took both men outside.The kids nearby were crying and the check out lady said she was so scared. I don't know know why the men were yelling at each other,nor do I care I just felt like someone needed to restore calm..

Response by SSgt James Collins USMC(ret) made Sep 24 at 2016 10:27 PM

SSgt James Collins USMC(ret) — Sat, 24 Sep 2016 22:27:02 -0400

SgtMaj only took him by the collar, if I would haberdashery been there he would have got a boot up his ass. Mommy would very embarrested mommy needs to take care og Mrine maybe they should send him to boot camp you know the WMs boot camp. Not because WOMEN MARINES are easier maybe they could teach how not to depend on mommy. Cuz they will kick his ass.

Response by SSG Jeremy Sharp made Sep 24 at 2016 10:39 PM

SSG Jeremy Sharp — Sat, 24 Sep 2016 22:39:22 -0400

On the spot correction was absolutely the right way to go but not sure in this political climate whether the hands on approach was a wise decision. That having been said, A USMC SGM could smoke a lower enlisted for days based on this scenario. I am sure there may have been a future chain of command involvement for that young Marine and his disrespectful attitude when he was clearly in the wrong!

Response by HN Dan Baron made Sep 24 at 2016 10:49 PM

HN Dan Baron — Sat, 24 Sep 2016 22:49:07 -0400

I feel the SgtMaj was correct in addressing the situation. The young Marine should not have been disrespectful to an Officer. The Officer should have known better than to escalate the situation in the MCX. He should have had the Marine arrested. The young Marine should be facing disciplinary action as well as the Officer for conduct unbecoming.

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2016 11:04 PM

LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Sep 2016 23:04:46 -0400

Yes

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2016 11:15 PM

LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Sep 2016 23:15:14 -0400

The JO should of approach the young Marine to tell him to step aside. Once he stepped aside he should of informed him what the instructions say about being covered indoor. If after the fact the young Marine cursed at him then the JO gets the Marines information snd report gim to his unit or call the MPs. As Officers we do not touch anyone or Englisted do not either. Bad call on the JO!

Response by PO3 Paul Hill made Sep 25 at 2016 12:33 AM

PO3 Paul Hill — Sun, 25 Sep 2016 00:33:47 -0400

That kid needs so much extra work. Painting rocks all day is a good start. Confined to base for six months with half pay is also a good start. The mother needs to learn her place too.

Response by 1SG David Carrier made Sep 25 at 2016 3:22 AM

1SG David Carrier — Sun, 25 Sep 2016 03:22:30 -0400

The SGM is the ultimate soldier, he knows everything and how to handle these kinds of situations. Right or wrong, you wear your cover (headgear) inside only when you are armed. Especially on Military ground/facilities. Soldiers know the rule, this particular soldier was out of line by questioning an Office he recognized to be an Officer, "Disrespect to a senior Officer" Article 15, UCMJ or even Court-martial if the Officer so desires, the SGM diffused and corrected the situation and I'm sure educated the soldier to proper protocol...

Response by Sgt Tim Kretzschmar made Sep 25 at 2016 4:38 AM

Sgt Tim Kretzschmar — Sun, 25 Sep 2016 04:38:56 -0400

Correct them respectfully

Response by LCpl Kayne Pope made Sep 25 at 2016 8:41 AM

LCpl Kayne Pope — Sun, 25 Sep 2016 08:41:10 -0400

Do I think this actually happened? No. Do I find it very funny if it did? Yes

Response by SGT Ben Jones made Sep 25 at 2016 9:43 AM

SGT Ben Jones — Sun, 25 Sep 2016 09:43:52 -0400

Regardless of who was asking him to remove his cover, the young Marine should have acquiesced. No scene was necessary. If the junior officer was in civilian attire, he could have avoided a scene by showing I.D., then disciplined the young Marine accordingly for the "who the fuck are you?" comment. If the uniform code offender outranked the young officer, the correction should have been made privately and respectfully. For example: call the offender aside and say,"with respect sir/maam, the uniform code prohibits the wearing of a cover indoors with the exception of (note exceptions). I'm sure it was just an oversight, but I wanted to respectfully make you aware."

Response by Becky Mooney made Sep 25 at 2016 10:47 AM

Becky Mooney — Sun, 25 Sep 2016 10:47:00 -0400

If he spoke out without permission then it needed to be addressed

Response by SPC Mike Elliott made Sep 25 at 2016 11:03 AM

SPC Mike Elliott — Sun, 25 Sep 2016 11:03:50 -0400

Growing up near camp lejeune that is something that wouldn't surprise me at all. Marine Corps SgtMaj.'s don't mess around and to be causing a problem at the mcx

Response by HN Stan Stogie made Sep 25 at 2016 11:44 AM

HN Stan Stogie — Sun, 25 Sep 2016 11:44:35 -0400

Been a long time since I have been in. Spent 2 years at Campen in the 70's. Spent 2 1/2 years in Iraq as a contractor. I was/am amazed at the entitlement attitude of younger soldiers. I think our Senior enlisted more than anyone are aware of how to correct that attitude. If this happened then there is a young man who hopefully learned a valuable lesson early in his career. I saw many get their heads on straight with effective leadership.

Response by SPC James Ewing III made Sep 25 at 2016 12:31 PM

SPC James Ewing III — Sun, 25 Sep 2016 12:31:28 -0400

By taking soldier to his own chain of command. With family involved get the soldiers company , platoon SSG and squad ldr and inform his command of his and his mothers attitude and actions . Been awhile its AR67-0 is that correct? lol.

Response by Sgt Nathan Pruitt Sr. made Sep 25 at 2016 2:56 PM

Sgt Nathan Pruitt Sr. — Sun, 25 Sep 2016 14:56:09 -0400

Simple... the young Marine should kept his mouth shut and removed his cover. Not run his mouth in disrespect!

Response by Sgt Michael Teaster made Sep 25 at 2016 4:31 PM

Sgt Michael Teaster — Sun, 25 Sep 2016 16:31:58 -0400

Extra duty for sure, possibly a courts-martial for disrespect to a senior commissioned officer. I do believe the Sgt Major acted correctly in demanding that the incident be taken outside. Not sure of USMC regs, but in my service in the USAF, covers were not worn indoors unless "under arms".

Response by Maj Willi j Corcoran made Sep 25 at 2016 7:39 PM

Maj Willi j Corcoran — Sun, 25 Sep 2016 19:39:37 -0400

It is real simple. Ask the Marine or service-memer to take his cover off. If he doesn't take it off or if he is disrespectful and wearing utilities he has his name on his utility jacket. get his name, look up who he belongs to and hammer him.

Response by PFC Bryant Moore made Sep 25 at 2016 8:30 PM

PFC Bryant Moore — Sun, 25 Sep 2016 20:30:17 -0400

I don't think the sergeant major was wrong as a soldier you should know not to mess up so yes I would do the same I graduated old school no stress cards no cell phones

Response by SFC Joji Siller made Sep 25 at 2016 10:05 PM

SFC Joji Siller — Sun, 25 Sep 2016 22:05:07 -0400

correct it on the spot, make it where the private wouldn't forget

Response by PVT Lewis Woodard made Sep 25 at 2016 10:51 PM

PVT Lewis Woodard — Sun, 25 Sep 2016 22:51:24 -0400

Excuse me sir, but are we not supposed to remove our cover when entering a building?

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2016 11:14 PM

LCpl Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 25 Sep 2016 23:14:05 -0400

There's a lot of uncertainty in this situation. I've seen Marines at the PX place their covers on their heads while still inside because they've got so many bags to carry, so they throw their covers on and beeline out the PX. In any case, both parties made mistakes in this scenario, the SgtMaj did what a SgtMaj does, nothing wrong.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2016 12:13 AM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Sep 2016 00:13:16 -0400

Both were blatantly in the wrong. I commend your junior Marine by asking the sgt. Mjr. First but instead of yelling. He could have politely given the sgt Mjr. A brief lecture on leadership and setting the example. Then it probably wouldn't have escalated to the point of what it did

Response by Sgt James Harlan made Sep 26 at 2016 11:03 AM

Sgt James Harlan — Mon, 26 Sep 2016 11:03:27 -0400

Wow, this is the of shit that happens now. One, he should not have had his cover on inside unless he was an on duty MP, (at lease that's the it is in AF) or was required to for duty related reasons. Not shopping. Two, when an Officer gives you an order you follow that order. Period. Three, Sgt Major did exactly the right thing. Forth, mom should stay out of it. Not her business.

Response by SSG Roderick Hargraves made Sep 26 at 2016 12:30 PM

SSG Roderick Hargraves — Mon, 26 Sep 2016 12:30:00 -0400

He had a bad brain fart. As for his mother, well?????????!!!!!!!!

Response by PO2 Shannon Richardson made Sep 26 at 2016 1:13 PM

PO2 Shannon Richardson — Mon, 26 Sep 2016 13:13:37 -0400

The Sgt. Major did the right thing. The young officer and the Marine both need to be disciplined and the Mother needs to cut the umbilical cord.

Response by SR Chris Campbell made Sep 26 at 2016 2:19 PM

SR Chris Campbell — Mon, 26 Sep 2016 14:19:15 -0400

The uniform is the first thing that you are taught... If you can't get it right that means you don't respect yourself or the unform

Response by MSgt Charles Hull made Sep 26 at 2016 3:26 PM

MSgt Charles Hull — Mon, 26 Sep 2016 15:26:27 -0400

In my day it never would have gotten that far....another enlisted with several supporters would have squared you away, and the very last thing you would want to do is swear at an officer....oh, and your mom / family would have been counseled....... want to discus it further, let me know

Response by MGySgt Albert Harvick made Sep 26 at 2016 6:56 PM

MGySgt Albert Harvick — Mon, 26 Sep 2016 18:56:07 -0400

The Marine and the officer were both wrong. The SgtMaj handled the situation properly with the exception of not getting the officer's name.

Response by SPC Edwin Savoy made Sep 26 at 2016 7:10 PM

SPC Edwin Savoy — Mon, 26 Sep 2016 19:10:48 -0400

The way I understand , is the only time you wear your cover in a building is when you are under arms, carrying a weapon, and only then!

Response by Gena Riley made Sep 26 at 2016 7:47 PM

Gena Riley — Mon, 26 Sep 2016 19:47:23 -0400

You don't wear your cover in a building. You don't wear your cover in a building. If you can't focus enough to remove your cover in a store, you won't be focused enough to keep from blowing the covers of many brothers during war.

Response by Sgt Mervyn Russell made Sep 26 at 2016 7:52 PM

Sgt Mervyn Russell — Mon, 26 Sep 2016 19:52:41 -0400

The young Marine was wrong and should have been given an ass chewing and taken on a five mile hike with full field pack and if that does not correct the situation add another ten miles. This would have never taken place 50 years ago when I was in the Marine Corps.

Response by Cpl J. Ray Edwards made Sep 26 at 2016 8:39 PM

Cpl J. Ray Edwards — Mon, 26 Sep 2016 20:39:06 -0400

Minor infraction,wearing a cover indoors, while not under arms.
Call him aside remind him that Marines do not wear a cover indoors unless under arms.

Response by Sgt Richard Hill made Sep 26 at 2016 9:28 PM

Sgt Richard Hill — Mon, 26 Sep 2016 21:28:05 -0400

I know how it would have been handled when I was in back in 1969. The SgtMaj would have knocked it off his head.

Response by Sgt John Keogh made Sep 26 at 2016 10:40 PM

Sgt John Keogh — Mon, 26 Sep 2016 22:40:30 -0400

I can not respond for other services, but, USAF, you took off your cover, unless you were responding as a Security Policeman on a call.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2016 11:06 PM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Sep 2016 23:06:12 -0400

military minded heros know covers off on covered area, if they forget code word is covers of hero and drive on

Response by Thomas Nye made Sep 26 at 2016 11:30 PM

Thomas Nye — Mon, 26 Sep 2016 23:30:44 -0400

Perhaps the officer should have defused the situation, what with the parent present, and then have the enlisted mans NCO take it from there?

Response by SFC Jerry McDonald made Sep 26 at 2016 11:45 PM

SFC Jerry McDonald — Mon, 26 Sep 2016 23:45:27 -0400

the SgtMaj handled it right he too the pvt and kelp it calm and toned down the whole thing and protected the famlies

Response by AN Kevin Grandjean made Sep 27 at 2016 10:56 AM

AN Kevin Grandjean — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 10:56:33 -0400

The officer was out of line, least he could of handled it with a bit more discretion and professionalism.

Response by PO2 Brian Sharkey made Sep 27 at 2016 3:31 PM

PO2 Brian Sharkey — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 15:31:49 -0400

It's the corps, they live by rules and it takes tough individuals to enforce those rules, this is not a kiddie camp for mommas boys who think they can break those rules whenever they feel like. Green Lives Matter. Your heart and sole may belong to god but your ass belongs to the corps. Snap to Marine and clean the shit out your headgear!

Response by Cpl Jessica Woodland made Sep 27 at 2016 5:01 PM

Cpl Jessica Woodland — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 17:01:00 -0400

this is an odd story for sure. I second that all Marine's know we do not wear a cover indoors unless we are under arms. We surely wouldn't desecrate our uniforms or disrespect a brother in a public place. this being an army soldier on a Marine Base and getting mouthy, yeah I can believe that. or any other branch of service even. A Marine officer, not quick to back down especially if someone says who the f** are you.... they'll be like "let me introduce myself. I'm captain stf by" ... I do 100% believe a Sgt Major witnessing any Marine or service member making an ass of themselves and behaving in a fashion conduct unbecoming... would remove the 2 of them from that situation.. the mother should stay the hell out of affairs. Unless of course she wants to join our ranks... then she can stf by too.

Response by Cpl Jessica Woodland made Sep 27 at 2016 5:01 PM

Cpl Jessica Woodland — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 17:01:30 -0400

Response by CMDCM Mike Cisneros made Sep 27 at 2016 5:45 PM

CMDCM Mike Cisneros — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 17:45:05 -0400

There's a proper place and time for disciplining subordinates. Perhaps it should have been a different approach yet still getting to the point without going ballistic.

Response by CMDCM Mike Cisneros made Sep 27 at 2016 5:45 PM

CMDCM Mike Cisneros — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 17:45:30 -0400

There's a proper place and time for disciplining subordinates. Perhaps it should have been a different approach yet still getting to the point without going ballistic.

Response by SPC Dale Sifford made Sep 27 at 2016 6:56 PM

SPC Dale Sifford — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 18:56:16 -0400

Has the military gone so namby pamby that there is a question about this? In the military you don't get to question authority like that. If the person senior to you tells you to follow the rules you follow them. If there is a question about his authority you take it up with your chain of command later.

Response by Jason Thornton made Sep 27 at 2016 7:07 PM

Jason Thornton — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 19:07:31 -0400

your CO should get in trouble for wearing his cover too it should a apply for everyone i dont care if you are a 5 star gen.

Response by Col David Cooper made Sep 27 at 2016 7:53 PM

Col David Cooper — Tue, 27 Sep 2016 19:53:30 -0400

I would have asked jr officer if I could ask him a dicreet lopw level question. Sir you are covered and then back to rigid attention

Response by TSgt Edward Wells made Sep 28 at 2016 1:23 AM

TSgt Edward Wells — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 01:23:14 -0400

I spent 26 years in the AF and regardless of the Branch of service, respect for an Officer is paramount. It makes no difference where this would happen, the young Marine showed a lack of respect, not only toward the Officer but also his mother and those who were close enough to hear the altercation. He was asked to remove his cover and whether it be by an NCO or Officer, anyone in the Military knows the regs. The young Marine caused an otherwise simple request to escalate into something far worse because of his lack of respect. Extra duty? You bet!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 28 at 2016 9:52 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 09:52:34 -0400

Thst young Marine was DEAD WRONG. No 2 ways about it. From the second he put thst cover on indoors to the second he cussed at and profaned a commissioned officer, he was wrong. I could juat about give 2 rips about the surroundings or situation. He put himself there. I back the officer all the way. A Sgt or Staff Sergeant should have snatched this little dirtbag out of line (right in front of his [mommy] and everybody else, took him outside and out of sight then commence to thrashing him for 30 minutes. I see this type of disciplinary issue far too often in young service members. They think they are entitled to do whatever, with no consequence and the world owes them everything. Think again, genius.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 28 at 2016 10:56 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 10:56:14 -0400

The one wearing the cover yes especially if the young dude that told him first was a officer he can be charged but in today MC nothing will happen outside the ass chewing he got .

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 28 at 2016 10:58 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 10:58:55 -0400

To answer the question how it could've been handled properly the fucking boot who put his cover on inside could've never done for one two he could've listened to the devil dog who told him to remove it or three get blasted by a SGTMAJ lmao

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 28 at 2016 11:00 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 11:00:44 -0400

Don't worry his mom will probably write her congressman and Marines won't be able to yell at Marines in public anymore smh this part of the problem fucking mother of America lol smh

Response by Karyn Cabral Malone made Sep 28 at 2016 11:29 AM

Karyn Cabral Malone — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 11:29:44 -0400

Absolutely there will be extra duty - respect the uniform and he knew his ranks if a marine who is his senior asks him to remove his cover then he removes it

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 28 at 2016 6:33 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 18:33:10 -0400

This whole story Just gave me Forest Whitaker eye.

Response by LCpl Edward Snyder made Oct 1 at 2016 9:45 AM

LCpl Edward Snyder — Sat, 01 Oct 2016 09:45:18 -0400

Had a similar incident back in '60 when a 36yr gunny walked into sunday brunch with a 2nd LT the OD- sarge had herring bone utililities, boon dockers, and folded cover in his back pocket-- the LT dressed the sarge down about his uniform and started to write him up on charges- the sarge just told the LT to be sure to write it on soft paper so he could wipe his A-- with it, then walked off into the mess hall- NOW, HOW would you handle that-?-

Response by TSgt Greg Lyle made Oct 1 at 2016 2:12 PM

TSgt Greg Lyle — Sat, 01 Oct 2016 14:12:22 -0400

Sounds like that was handled perfectly by the NCO. That is exactly what sergeants are for. That Marine had a lot of hurting to do for days after that incident.

Response by GySgt Skip Redpath made Oct 1 at 2016 2:33 PM

GySgt Skip Redpath — Sat, 01 Oct 2016 14:33:29 -0400

SEMPER FI, SGTMAJ!.... You did the right thing, and the "Marine" in question needs Office Hours..

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2016 10:26 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 01 Oct 2016 22:26:52 -0400

Extra duty is in his future for sure. I expect it'll be rough.

Response by Sgt Robert Harris made Oct 1 at 2016 11:49 PM

Sgt Robert Harris — Sat, 01 Oct 2016 23:49:57 -0400

oh yea if he is luckly!! I have been hearing the corps has been changing, but this sounds stupid. On both parties, 1st the young Marine should of showed the proper respect. 2nd the Jr officer should of used some tact, taken his ass outside then reamed him a new in private

Response by SPC Perry Vaughn made Oct 2 at 2016 9:15 AM

SPC Perry Vaughn — Sun, 02 Oct 2016 09:15:33 -0400

Remember, men..."the shit rolls downhill.". Ever heard that during your time in service. :)

Response by SPC Perry Vaughn made Oct 2 at 2016 9:19 AM

SPC Perry Vaughn — Sun, 02 Oct 2016 09:19:22 -0400

Remember, men..."shit rolls downhill." Ever heard that during your time in service?

Response by SSgt Keith Whitt made Oct 2 at 2016 1:14 PM

SSgt Keith Whitt — Sun, 02 Oct 2016 13:14:27 -0400

I think the military needs to do a better job of teaching respect. Not just for others but for yourself. They know what is right and wrong yet so many times these days we see disrespect for customs and courtesy. This is from all ranks officer and enlisted. More discipline is needed all over and what we called policing our own, me and my friends would not have let one another do things like this.

Response by Elaine Suggs made Oct 2 at 2016 3:54 PM

Elaine Suggs — Sun, 02 Oct 2016 15:54:09 -0400

From my observation folks are very respectful in the MCX and my son was very cognizant of his surroundings. I don't things have loosened up such that a Lcpl or PFC would likely respond this way unless something had recently very much unhinged his brain.

Response by LCpl Eric Gardner made Oct 2 at 2016 8:55 PM

LCpl Eric Gardner — Sun, 02 Oct 2016 20:55:01 -0400

The young Marine was in the wrong period. No enlisted Marine green around the ears EVER engages a superior rank. Period. The Marine Corps isn't about playing games like other branches. If you don't get it, you're in the wrong branch. My Marine Corps was straight up "Full Metal Jacket" and should remain that way. It's called "discipline" and "respect" for the uniform, for the Corps and for Country.

Response by CSM Thomas Diehl made Oct 3 at 2016 4:34 AM

CSM Thomas Diehl — Mon, 03 Oct 2016 04:34:27 -0400

I think the LT should have asked for his ID card and asked for the name of his commanding officer ... he is required to offer that info, regardless of who asks for it. Then report him to his CO. However, that being said, I find it hard to believe that any young man who has made it through Marine Basic would, first, not be aware that wearing cover inside while not bearing arms is a no-no, taboo, verboten, against the rules and the natural order of things. Second, for the same reason, I find it hard to believe he would respond as stated. But, an intereting story.

Response by SGT Robert Ketcher made Oct 4 at 2016 10:27 PM

SGT Robert Ketcher — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 22:27:31 -0400

Although I was not a marine and was an air force/ army hybrid the rules and regulations are usually pretty clear about when and where and how you are to wear your uniform. . . Knowing and following them is what a military regimen is all about.....if you can't live by the rules then get the help out

Response by Pvt Ken Bradstock made Oct 5 at 2016 8:02 PM

Pvt Ken Bradstock — Wed, 05 Oct 2016 20:02:12 -0400

No. The Sgt Major does NOT owe the Marine anything. he was wrong and should NEVER have talked to an officer like that. He knew what is expected when an officer is out of line. He KNEW that he is to obey the command and file the comlpaint later. I hope the Sgt Major had the officer disciplined too. Officers in the Corps don't behave with so little dignity. The young Marine should tell his mother that she should stay out of his USMC affairs. He is no longer mommies little boy. He's a Marine. That is a mess but if one is aware of the position a Sgt Major, one would know that the officer certainly did not get away with that.

Response by SPC Shon Thomas made Oct 5 at 2016 11:23 PM

SPC Shon Thomas — Wed, 05 Oct 2016 23:23:51 -0400

He should have been following the MARINE CORPS ORDER P1020.34G .. I was in the Army but this seems to be the Marine equivalent . And once confronted for being out of uniform he should have corrected himself..

Response by Sgt Jack Tippenhauer made Oct 6 at 2016 2:00 PM

Sgt Jack Tippenhauer — Thu, 06 Oct 2016 14:00:30 -0400

SgtMaj ended the problem. (Cover on indoors). The officer should get a fitness roports the reflects he actions. The young Marine should get NJP for disrespect.

Response by Sgt Lester Mount made Oct 10 at 2016 5:25 PM

Sgt Lester Mount — Mon, 10 Oct 2016 17:25:36 -0400

I doubt anyone would drag him outside, instead they would tell him to uncover. Always be polite to family members and remember his name.

Response by LCpl Vincent Duchene made Oct 10 at 2016 6:27 PM

LCpl Vincent Duchene — Mon, 10 Oct 2016 18:27:53 -0400

The moment you cross the threshold, the cover comes off. End of discussion.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 11 at 2016 12:44 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 11 Oct 2016 00:44:48 -0400

Glad to see that someone still knows how to handle a situation, and properly educate young Marines (both of them)!

Response by Sgt Terry Atchison made Oct 11 at 2016 11:38 PM

Sgt Terry Atchison — Tue, 11 Oct 2016 23:38:40 -0400

That young Marine was given a lawful directive. He failed to follow it. The Lt. needs to realize that at no time should he get into a shouting match is public venue. BAD on both....

Response by Nick Colbert made Oct 13 at 2016 11:29 PM

Nick Colbert — Thu, 13 Oct 2016 23:29:54 -0400

The Sergeant Major handled it properly. This young marine lacks discipline and respect. The United States Marine Corps has policies and procedures. He knew better to wear his cover in the building. Respect the uniform, yourself, and who is around you. He used profanity, if anything the mother should of hauled him out of there. You can see a person out of uniform, but you never know sometimes who you are dealing with. My father is a retired Chief Warrant Officer 5 U.S.M.C and he would agree.

Response by Maj Arthur Pittman made Oct 13 at 2016 11:39 PM

Maj Arthur Pittman — Thu, 13 Oct 2016 23:39:03 -0400

Not the young Marines place to correct a senior officer.

Response by CPO Cliff Schmidt made Oct 14 at 2016 8:43 PM

CPO Cliff Schmidt — Fri, 14 Oct 2016 20:43:27 -0400

Absolutely! When an officer, junior grade or not, approaches you and instructs you to remove your cover while indoors, YOU REMOVE YOUR COVER!!!!! The PVT was stupid enough to confront the officer and I am glad the Sergeant Major took matters into his own hands! I would have done the same.
HMC C. Schmidt

Response by PO3 Pat Burt made Oct 16 at 2016 10:25 PM

PO3 Pat Burt — Sun, 16 Oct 2016 22:25:38 -0400

The SgtMaj did a fine job....

Response by LCDR Stephen McLaughlin made Oct 17 at 2016 2:58 PM

LCDR Stephen McLaughlin — Mon, 17 Oct 2016 14:58:39 -0400

Everybody throttle down on the sport drinks.

Response by MSgt Robert Jensen made Oct 18 at 2016 4:10 PM

MSgt Robert Jensen — Tue, 18 Oct 2016 16:10:57 -0400

If you can't lead yourself you have zero business leading others

Response by Sgt Jose Pazos made Oct 19 at 2016 3:23 PM

Sgt Jose Pazos — Wed, 19 Oct 2016 15:23:44 -0400

I dont understand why folks think this is strange? Has the Corps changed since i got out in 2003?

Response by Sgt Jose Pazos made Oct 19 at 2016 3:24 PM

Sgt Jose Pazos — Wed, 19 Oct 2016 15:24:19 -0400

I dont understand why folks think this is strange? Has the Corps changed since i got out in 2003?

Response by Jessie R. Smith Jr. made Oct 19 at 2016 6:52 PM

Jessie R. Smith Jr. — Wed, 19 Oct 2016 18:52:51 -0400

The Marine Way.

Response by PFC George Austin Chase III made Oct 19 at 2016 7:53 PM

PFC George Austin Chase III — Wed, 19 Oct 2016 19:53:11 -0400

I think the Jr officer could have had a lot more military bearing and asked to speak with the private outside,but as for the mother telling a Sgt Major not to touch her son, well......she needs to understand that her son is a Marine first!!....all else is secondary!!...Semper Fi

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 20 at 2016 3:31 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Oct 2016 03:31:50 -0400

These seems like a pretty cut and dry situation. The fact that the Marine didn't automatically remove his cover (he was obviously in the wrong) is astounding, not to mention "who the **** are you?" is a very dangerous question in an MCX. He got what was coming to him and the SgtMaj did exactly what he should have done. I hope that Marine got smoked real good when SgtMaj got him outside.

Response by LCpl Bill Wylie made Oct 20 at 2016 3:49 PM

LCpl Bill Wylie — Thu, 20 Oct 2016 15:49:24 -0400

Simply put, the junior officer is wrong because he lost control of the situation. When challenged, as to who the "f" he was, he should have said "I'm the Marine Officer telling you to square yourself away." No shouting. No yelling. No arguing. At that point the Marine has only one proper response, which is "Aye aye sir (and remove his cover.)

Of course, a simpler way to handle this would have been for the officer to introduce himself first. "Good morning (afternoon) Marine. I'm second Lt. Jones...." and then give the direction. In this way there would have been no dispute as to the authority to remove the cover.

Response by MSgt Roger Settlemyer made Oct 21 at 2016 5:53 PM

MSgt Roger Settlemyer — Fri, 21 Oct 2016 17:53:26 -0400

Once In Disneyland in Civilian Clothes, A Drunk Marine stopped Me and My Wife and proclaimed,"Your Hot you should be a Real man A US Marine !" At this time I pulled out my I.D. Sgt USMC, and told the Young Marine "Your Liberty Is secured, Report back to your unit, I want a call from your Officer In Charge, Do You Understand ! .....Yes Sir! .........The next day I got a call. This is Lt so in so I sorry for my Marine action at Disneyland. What Do You Suggest? My replay was "Crew His Ass let him go! " With the following words "If You Ever Do This Again Dishonor the Corps I going to have Your Ass !

Response by Cpl J L made Oct 21 at 2016 7:24 PM

Cpl J L — Fri, 21 Oct 2016 19:24:07 -0400

"Focus on the question."? And the question is, will this Marine get extra duty? Why even tell the story? Let me summarize the story; "A young Marine ignores deeply rooted principle of every Marine's universe and is advised by a senior Marine to correct himself, but then inexplicably ignores another deeply rooted principle of every Marine's universe by insolently disobeying that senior Marine. Has the young Marine risked harsh consequences?"

Hell yah! I would say he's wasted his career.

But I have serious doubts about the details of the story.

Response by CPT Tom Caldwell made Oct 21 at 2016 10:50 PM

CPT Tom Caldwell — Fri, 21 Oct 2016 22:50:57 -0400

Is he under arms?

Response by Sgt Jay Bee made Oct 22 at 2016 1:04 AM

Sgt Jay Bee — Sat, 22 Oct 2016 01:04:53 -0400

Wow

Response by SFC George Smith made Oct 22 at 2016 5:31 PM

SFC George Smith — Sat, 22 Oct 2016 17:31:44 -0400

interesting...

Response by SSgt Gilbert Gissendaner made Oct 23 at 2016 12:33 PM

SSgt Gilbert Gissendaner — Sun, 23 Oct 2016 12:33:15 -0400

I am a retired person here's my thoughts. The Corps have standards that have been around for years, there no way in H..l that this new breed and these new standards should be allowed to change what has made the Corps what is. We are separated and noticed from other services by our great standards and values. Just think how many other senior enlisted people or same rank that may have known him walked by this person and said nothing. I know if I was still in I would of said something to him myself. My hats off to the Sgt Major. I would be glad to under a person who still has try Corps value these day.

Response by Sgt David Butler made Oct 23 at 2016 6:24 PM

Sgt David Butler — Sun, 23 Oct 2016 18:24:17 -0400

Marines should know that there are all ranks around and do as told them ask who. Bad form. Semper Fi.

Response by Penny Morey made Oct 25 at 2016 10:50 AM

Penny Morey — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 10:50:48 -0400

My son now a retired Marine. Was in boot camp first week in . Went to berricks to take a nap after some kind of training( with out permission or being dismissed) needless to say Sgt found out . He never did that shit again. Moral of sharing young boys going in as boys coming out as a marine. RESPECT and do what your told to do. No cover inside as even I know that as a mother or three military men.

Response by Sgt Mitch Carroll made Oct 25 at 2016 10:02 PM

Sgt Mitch Carroll — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 22:02:28 -0400

I'd like to point out to everyone here that they are missing a crucial point here. In this case, "Young Marine" refers to a kid who is a member of the "Young Marines" youth program. They are allowed to wear items of Marine Corps uniforms (with various identifying marks like shoulder patches). Although they are not subject to Marine Corps Orders, or the UCMJ, they ARE expected to treat the uniform (and Marines) with the respect they are due in exchange for the privilege of wearing the uniform.
Personally, the program always kind of rubbed me the wrong way. For one thing, the title of Marine is something that Marines take very seriously, and these kids get to call themselves that, and make fools of themselves in our uniforms just for signing up. Now, I've got no problem with a youth program designed to use the Corps' core values and traditions to instill those values in children to help them be better citizens, but they could adjust the name and uniform a bit.
As for the incident, The officer was not outside his lane to tell the kid to uncover indoors, since A: that's one of the rules of the MCX, B: that's one of the rules of the Young Marines, C: That's the rules that come with the privilege (not right) of wearing that uniform item, and D: The kid is supposed to show respect for Marines anyway.
The kid was out of line for talking back. He has no right to that uniform, and the privilege can be revoked at any time. Besides the fact that that is one of the whole points of the program is to teach kids respect for authority, and how to take a correction, correct themselves, and move on.
The mom had every right to defend her kid if she felt he was being mistreated, but in this case, I think that doesn't mean that she should have reacted that way. I personally think that she should have corrected her kid, and had him apologize for his behavior. Again, the kid WAS breaking the rules. You wanna live on base and shop at the PX, you have to follow the dress code. If you want to be a member of the organization, you need to follow it's rules. If you want to wear the uniform, you need to follow the rules that come with it, or you simply don't get to.
As for the Sergeant Major, I can't really fault him for breaking up a fight. He was not just breaking up an argument, though, he was correcting the officer. Any Marine can correct any other Marine if they are in the wrong in a social situation, and the Marine in the wrong (officer or not) is expected to take the correction, correct themselves, and move on (sound familiar?). I've been out in town, and seen a 2nd Lieutenant walk into a Walmart in his utilities (against Marine Corps uniform regulations), and sent him back to his car to go change into civvies. I was a Corporal! Now, I was a bit more polite about it than the SgtMaj, but the Marine I was correcting wasn't being belligerent (just stupid). I think that the SgtMaj was as tactful as he needed to be to make the appropriate correction.
Where he goes wrong, though, is actually grabbing the KID, and physically hauling him out of the building. That is not only inappropriate and unnecessary, but I'm fairly sure that constitutes assault as well, which is not only a crime, but also a violation of the UCMJ. Possible career killer, but then again, for all we know, the SgtMaj was retiring that afternoon.

Response by MSgt Harry Thomas Sr. made Oct 27 at 2016 12:22 PM

MSgt Harry Thomas Sr. — Thu, 27 Oct 2016 12:22:44 -0400

I don't believe it... A SgtMaj manhandling a Marine today? No need, just, "Following me Devil Dogs" de-escalate the situation immediately and follow up with discipline if needed. But 3 Marines totally out of control over a Cover in the MCX today? I don't buy that!!!

Response by Sgt Jerome Dear made Oct 27 at 2016 8:05 PM

Sgt Jerome Dear — Thu, 27 Oct 2016 20:05:01 -0400

Sgtmajors are always right

Response by 1SG Patrick Sims made Oct 27 at 2016 10:10 PM

1SG Patrick Sims — Thu, 27 Oct 2016 22:10:22 -0400

Officers and senior NCO--E-8 and 9 don't have the option of losing their temper and shouting in public---except to be hears. Tell the Marine to remove his cover in public and let it go at that. If he acts like a smart ass, he's probably a problem for the people he works for. Getting into a shouting match with this idiot is a bad idea, and don't get into his face, unless you're ready to defend yourself on the spot, with your fists. Find out who the little bastard works for and make sure he deals with him.

Response by MGySgt Gerry Sweeten made Oct 28 at 2016 2:18 PM

MGySgt Gerry Sweeten — Fri, 28 Oct 2016 14:18:33 -0400

He did the right thing. That young Marine should be brought up on Article 32 for disrespect to an officer.

Response by CPO Norman Mauldin made Oct 30 at 2016 1:07 AM

CPO Norman Mauldin — Sun, 30 Oct 2016 01:07:51 -0400

Just a good old Marine Corps Counseling Session!

Response by Sgt Lee Benzo Sr. made Oct 30 at 2016 7:34 PM

Sgt Lee Benzo Sr. — Sun, 30 Oct 2016 19:34:36 -0400

I see that the civilian lack of respect has finally come to our Corps. That so called young Marine should have had respect for the rank, right or wrong. The junior officer was right in this case & had that young Marine been one of mine, he would be in some serious S**t. I wouldn't put up with such a lack of respect. Semper Fi

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2016 10:36 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Nov 2016 10:36:22 -0400

Great OES here, yes extra duty for the soldier. I would guarantee the SgtMaj makes sure both parties get their appropriate level of adjustment for their actions. The great enlisted soldiers educate all of us and know where and when to apply the heat without further undermining command.

Response by Sgt John DePrimo made Nov 2 at 2016 2:58 PM

Sgt John DePrimo — Wed, 02 Nov 2016 14:58:43 -0400

If it's true I hope the SgtMaj stomped the dog crap out of him!!

Response by Sgt Chas Handler made Nov 4 at 2016 8:16 AM

Sgt Chas Handler — Fri, 04 Nov 2016 08:16:32 -0400

Ok I'm about to blow the whole story out the water. I am seeing all kinds of added details and assumptions that don't resonate with the story so maybe the COL can clear them up or let me know if I piped it. First off the JO is wrong for allowing the Marine to continue an argument. Second. I am seeing people in here trying to change the story and getting things confused. I'm going to put hot brass to nipples that when the Col's wife says young Marine, she means just that, a "young" boot ass slick ear Marine. I will call complete bs on the idea that this "kid" is in some "Youth Marines" organization, because to be shopping the MCX that would mean that mommy or daddy are service members and old enough to have a son 15-20. This means that mommy wouldn't have said shit regarding how another Marine was speaking to her son. In fact she probably would have lit him up before the JO could have. That leads me to believe that this is a Marine, who is most likely fresh out of boot/school, and has parents visiting. Probably took mama shopping and that is what sparked the events. JO gives order to Marine. Marine being fresh and perhaps feeling "called out" in front of mommy, decides to pop off. JO lost bearing and that is when SgtMaj snatches old boy up and civilian mommy bear loses her shit. OohRah Perry Mason

Response by PO3 Terry Skaggs made Nov 4 at 2016 9:30 AM

PO3 Terry Skaggs — Fri, 04 Nov 2016 09:30:48 -0400

Both were in the wrong. More so for the Jr officer and his approach to the enlisted personnel, the sergeant major was in the right for on his part at least stepping up to Take the young Marine enlisted personnel somewhere more private to counsel with him even if he did it in a disrespectful manner

Response by Alirio Orduna made Nov 6 at 2016 3:12 PM

Alirio Orduna — Sun, 06 Nov 2016 15:12:59 -0500

I agree, is permitted.
Semper fi.
Happy birthday brother Marines.

Response by LCpl Sam Southard made Nov 6 at 2016 5:49 PM

LCpl Sam Southard — Sun, 06 Nov 2016 17:49:43 -0500

I am an honourably discharged medically retired marine mp that now lives by an air force Base and have seen brainfarts very similar to this handled much more aggressively(as they should be),by nco's in the corps and fyi at Beale AFB in CA. Airboys officer and enlisted wear wrinkled Camus and baseball caps all over town inside and outside

Response by Cpl Kenny Loy made Nov 7 at 2016 2:44 PM

Cpl Kenny Loy — Mon, 07 Nov 2016 14:44:59 -0500

The day this Marine raised his right hand to enlist he gave up Mommy rights. His first response to the Junior Officer should have been "YES SIR" period! Way to go Sargent Major

Response by SSgt Stevie Ray made Nov 8 at 2016 8:38 PM

SSgt Stevie Ray — Tue, 08 Nov 2016 20:38:01 -0500

Sgt major rules. Young officers like young enlisted need a lot of guidance. ORAH SGT MAJOR

Response by SSG G Smith made Nov 9 at 2016 12:04 AM

SSG G Smith — Wed, 09 Nov 2016 00:04:52 -0500

I've seen similar at the gas pumps on post. Idiot didn't recognize the post CSM in civilian clothes when asked to turn down music. Needless to say he and his whole chain of command had a date at post headquarters early the next morning.

Response by PO1 Mark Zaragoza made Nov 9 at 2016 12:46 PM

PO1 Mark Zaragoza — Wed, 09 Nov 2016 12:46:08 -0500

This got out of hand from the get go. First thing anyone is supposed to do, is calmly walk up to the Marine. Identify verbally, as well as present your military ID to the Marine. Now this sounds stupid, but it starts the acknowledging of rank. After which you turn correct the issue. Now if this young Marine has a total brain fart and decides to not acknowledge the lawful order. It is now a punishable offense under the UCMJ. Which can then be handled that way. GAME OVER. Seen to many times someone wants to show their dick. And it just doesn't work.

Response by Sgt Chris Dennis made Nov 10 at 2016 12:15 AM

Sgt Chris Dennis — Thu, 10 Nov 2016 00:15:31 -0500

That Marine should get more than EPD. Obviously, this marine was not a recruit, so he should've known better, point blank. Hell, even recruits know that. As for the mother, until she have been through the fire, she would not understand, not even the slightest bit. Oohrah SGTMAJ!

Response by SA Ernestlee Morellsr made Nov 10 at 2016 10:14 PM

SA Ernestlee Morellsr — Thu, 10 Nov 2016 22:14:34 -0500

....Ask the Marine to uncover, plain and simple...hollowing and belittling him don't help,far too many DIs lose the recruit
when they hollow yell and scream, especially when it's not necessary...wearing a cover in a building is not like why do you have a dirty weapon, or you learn the chain of command....

Response by SGT Michael Rose made Nov 11 at 2016 12:24 AM

SGT Michael Rose — Fri, 11 Nov 2016 00:24:33 -0500

correct or chastise in private and show praise in public.

Response by Sgt William Brazeal made Nov 12 at 2016 8:34 PM

Sgt William Brazeal — Sat, 12 Nov 2016 20:34:33 -0500

If he is lucky he will get some extra duty. Most likely he will be charged with conduct unbecoming a Marine, Disrespect towards a commissioned officer and whole other host of charges. Let's just say he is up shits creek without a paddle.

Response by LTC Joseph Gross made Nov 13 at 2016 10:49 AM

LTC Joseph Gross — Sun, 13 Nov 2016 10:49:31 -0500

I don't ever care if the story is true, though I do believe you, it is a great story! Corrections in public should be handled as quietly and as professionally as possible, but no superior should ever simply walk away. It weakens the Corps.

Response by 1SG Michael Clarke made Nov 13 at 2016 4:50 PM

1SG Michael Clarke — Sun, 13 Nov 2016 16:50:35 -0500

The Sergeants Major did the right thing. The young marine should be taken to the motor pool for the next 4 Saturdays and Sundays to move a 5 ton dump truck load of dirt from one end to the other with a wheel barrow. The young officer should have to supervise the young mating during the detail. Hell, bring mom along so she can see there's no mama boys in the Corps.

Response by 1SG Michael Clarke made Nov 13 at 2016 4:50 PM

1SG Michael Clarke — Sun, 13 Nov 2016 16:50:43 -0500

Response by 1SG Michael Clarke made Nov 13 at 2016 5:03 PM

1SG Michael Clarke — Sun, 13 Nov 2016 17:03:32 -0500

Response by SPC Phil Norton made Nov 13 at 2016 6:38 PM

SPC Phil Norton — Sun, 13 Nov 2016 18:38:17 -0500

OK I get the jrnco and I get the Sgt MAJ. I don't get the young Marine. Why would you put up a fight when you are totally in the wrong? I believe he would have been just fine if he removed his head gear and apologized. It is bad when Forest Gump has more sense. Now the jrnco should not have let the situation escalate inside. He could have left and waited for him outside, where his mommy could watch her precious gem get smoked till he puked.

Response by PFC Raymond Campbell made Nov 14 at 2016 10:21 AM

PFC Raymond Campbell — Mon, 14 Nov 2016 10:21:44 -0500

First off its against military regulation to wear your cover indoors.Although the officer should have been asked,not yelled at,he still desrves respect !!! As for the Sgt.Major,discilinary action for putting his hands on a civilian dependant.

Response by SPC Matt Bowers made Nov 14 at 2016 3:38 PM

SPC Matt Bowers — Mon, 14 Nov 2016 15:38:28 -0500

SGM was right, but should not have been put in that position. JO and young Marine both dropped their military bearing, and in a family oriented environment. Let's be professional brothers and sisters.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2016 3:50 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Nov 2016 15:50:38 -0500

IF REAL: That Marine's going to WISH he'd on'y had extra duty. But putting on one's cover inside in anticipation of exiting laden with too much [fill in the blank] to set down or switch to "the other" hand IOT cover out of doors is a VERY common practice. I've done so myself, in and out of uniform. Another option is to put the cover on the top of the load, and upon exit ask one's companion(s) to place it as necessary. This is not preferred, but might have worked. As it is, the (implied) check-out clerk seems the only one in the incident who did NOT over-react.

IF NOT: Then it's just another "What-if" scenario pinballing around the internet, like every other such. Frankly, it sounds heavily exaggerated, even if based on actual events, and the protestation that "NEITHER MYSELF OR MY WIFE ARE IN THE HABIT OF TELLING A LIE OR MAKING UP A STORY - IT HAPPENED! FOCUS ON THE QUESTION - NOT WETHER YOU BELIEVE THE INCIDENT HAPPENED OR NOT!" comes off far too shrilly to be plausible. Rather like improving a "Share This Jesus Poster And Be Blessed" meme with "I DID IT FOR REAL AND IT WAS THE GREATEST THING!!!! I'M A PATSOR WHY WOULD I LIE???" underneath and a facimile of Billy Graham's signature, allegedly, right under the meme-text.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2016 4:25 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Nov 2016 16:25:32 -0500

We know the rules. In basic yes your gonna get a ass chewing or a lot push ups. If it's plain negligence than a reminder may need to implied or a simple pull them to the side and self correct them. A use of tact is always good. Higher up NCOs have a way of giving a good reminder.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2016 4:31 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Nov 2016 16:31:39 -0500

Don't mess with the Sgt Major.the young marine telling the young officer to f!#k off, wow. Mom needs to know her boy is a marine and he is owned by the Corps and must abide. Mommy can't bail her boy out anymore.

Response by PFC Ronald Maddox made Nov 14 at 2016 5:16 PM

PFC Ronald Maddox — Mon, 14 Nov 2016 17:16:19 -0500

Yea i dont think it gets dumber than this. At least the SgtMaj quelled this crap should take that mom to the o course so she learns to stay out of military matters

Response by LTC Joe Likar made Nov 14 at 2016 8:47 PM

LTC Joe Likar — Mon, 14 Nov 2016 20:47:45 -0500

I thought the "do as isn't not as I do" has gone by the wayside.

Response by Maj Brooks Wilson made Nov 15 at 2016 10:14 PM

Maj Brooks Wilson — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 22:14:18 -0500

If someone enters a building, not under arms, he/she should remove the cover or hat [back to that in a second]. If he/she forgets, he/she should be quietly taken aside and reminded of the proper protocol. Now the question of hat versus cover. I am a retired Marine major. I was once married to the daughter of a Marine colonel, later major general. I once referred to the hat as a cover in the presence of the general [my father-in-law], as the good sergeant did below, and was quickly corrected by the general that nowhere in the Marine Corps Uniform Regulations did it refer to hats as "covers." It says "hats." The term "covers" is something we as Marines generally use, but they are really hats.

Response by John Cross made Nov 16 at 2016 2:38 PM

John Cross — Wed, 16 Nov 2016 14:38:13 -0500

Rules are to be followed!

Response by LCpl Daniel Kerby made Nov 16 at 2016 3:11 PM

LCpl Daniel Kerby — Wed, 16 Nov 2016 15:11:35 -0500

I was with 2/7 in mid 80's. The young Marine who said who the F*** are you?" Needed his A** handed to him in front of his mother. Not only was he disrespectful by wearing his cover indoors but also to the fellow Marine. All this could have been avoided if he had admitted he screwed up and took his cover off. Marines have been blanket partied for less.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 16 at 2016 3:22 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Nov 2016 15:22:15 -0500

He should have removed the cover. Simple as that.

Response by LCpl Donald Faucett made Nov 16 at 2016 5:19 PM

LCpl Donald Faucett — Wed, 16 Nov 2016 17:19:36 -0500

A simple look would have worked for me

Response by Cpl Brad Johnson made Nov 17 at 2016 3:39 PM

Cpl Brad Johnson — Thu, 17 Nov 2016 15:39:54 -0500

Well if it's still the same Corps as when I was in. That officer should've taken that marine outside and smoked his ass. The sgtmaj should've if the officer didn't. The Marine was disrespectful. Officer says jump. You say how hi.

Response by Cpl Brad Johnson made Nov 17 at 2016 3:40 PM

Cpl Brad Johnson — Thu, 17 Nov 2016 15:40:04 -0500

Response by MAJ Jr C made Nov 17 at 2016 4:41 PM

MAJ Jr C — Thu, 17 Nov 2016 16:41:34 -0500

Well, the SgtMaj was on point. I once witnessed a new West Point 2LT try to tell one Viet Nam era Special Forces CSM Fritz "what time it was"...NOPE...don't F&$) with the Sergeants Major...EVER!

Response by David Wawrzyniak made Nov 17 at 2016 8:42 PM

David Wawrzyniak — Thu, 17 Nov 2016 20:42:45 -0500

Yes sir

Response by Capt Kevin Tanzer made Nov 18 at 2016 9:50 AM

Capt Kevin Tanzer — Fri, 18 Nov 2016 09:50:33 -0500

Doesn't wash with me.
a) any young service member (assuming they graduated basic) would immediately remove the hat, unless under arms.
b) addressing an junior officer like that would be suicidal, as the training from basic would kick in,
c) young officer (assume O-1) would not be yelling at the troop. As a wet-behind the ears O-1 (Air Force), even I knew better that a calm voice and dead-flat eye stare gets their focus,
d) the Marines don't have CSMs,
e) the senior NCO would not be yelling at the O-1, other than 'I got this LT!' That is the nature of senior NCOs, to lead the troops in getting stuff accomplished while shepherding the young officer past the larval stage of leadership-by-the-book into becoming a junior leaders that can look ahead to what will need to be done tomorrow, next week or next year.

Response by SSG Ken Gilder made Nov 19 at 2016 6:43 PM

SSG Ken Gilder — Sat, 19 Nov 2016 18:43:51 -0500

There is an old adage which says "Praise in public; criticize in private." You don't embarrass subordinates in front of their peers, or their subordinates, period. You get him off to the side, then correct him, or rip him a new one, depending upon the severity of the infraction. But you don't do it in public.

Response by Pvt Thom Ericson made Nov 19 at 2016 7:13 PM

Pvt Thom Ericson — Sat, 19 Nov 2016 19:13:13 -0500

Either escort him out or knock the cover off his head and get his mother to explain about wearing one inside !

Response by Kathryn Golding Cox made Nov 20 at 2016 12:47 PM

Kathryn Golding Cox — Sun, 20 Nov 2016 12:47:04 -0500

On the face this situation, two wrongs do not make a right.
1. The Marine should never have been covered.
2. The mother should have known her place as to structure and function of her son's role as a Marine. She should have known her place and not commented.
3. The senior Marine had every right to insist the young Marine remove his cover.
4 The young Marine was instructed but he forgot how to be respectful.

Response by Dottie Di Liddo made Nov 20 at 2016 4:42 PM

Dottie Di Liddo — Sun, 20 Nov 2016 16:42:10 -0500

If this happened and the Marine disrespected an officer he should face charges. The mother needs to shut her pie hole and understand that her son instantly obeying an officer may save his life someday. If this happened I hope there were major consequences for the Marine who disobeyed orders.

Response by PO3 Eric Manning made Nov 20 at 2016 10:44 PM

PO3 Eric Manning — Sun, 20 Nov 2016 22:44:57 -0500

It needs to be a superior to confront him on it, from there it's by the book!
Eric Mannin

Response by Sgt Joshua Seavey made Nov 21 at 2016 1:53 AM

Sgt Joshua Seavey — Mon, 21 Nov 2016 01:53:07 -0500

There are some things to consider before intelligently answering...

1) was the officer in uniform of any kind?
2) how far from the exit was the Marine?
There's just not enough information...

For example:
If the officer wasn't in uniform, he becomes just some dude asking him to remove his cover. Not saying the enlisted Marine shouldn't have just taken off the cover.
Also if the Marine is literally about to push the door open he may have needed his cover on before he existed...

Either way getting in another Marines face while yelling is not the correct approach. When correcting another service member with civilians around is always best to do so quietly or privately, especially if you need to chew their ass off.

Finally, from the text of the events above, it seems only the SgtMaj did the correct thing.

Besides, a junior officer can make a junior enlisted members life hell if he wanted, especially over something small. Senior enlisted members (like a SgtMaj) are a lot harder to fuck with, but still possible. Mostly because a SgtMaj is battalion level and reports directly to the Battalion Commander which is usually a Lt Col or higher... another words a senior officer. Junior officers, like lieutenants are either platoon or company.

So more information is needed.

Response by HN Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 21 at 2016 9:25 AM

HN Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 Nov 2016 09:25:49 -0500

I agree with this. He was first asked politely to take it off and when he decided to disrespect the junior officer, yeah he got pissed. The Sergeant Major handled it very well by taking him away from people to discipline the marine.

Response by SA Tim Hyde made Nov 21 at 2016 11:49 AM

SA Tim Hyde — Mon, 21 Nov 2016 11:49:17 -0500

They were all wrong, the j.o. Most of all I think. The junior officer should have told the young marine to remove his cover and reminded him that marines DO NOT go covered indoors, the young marine should have been smart enough to sence that somthing was amiss and ask politely who the j.o. was.
The Sgt Major came storming up, as Sgt Majors tend to do, and, I think appropriately, got everyone's attention, as Sgt Majors are adept in doing. Once the jaw jacking has been stopped and the problem has been identified, the Sgt Major SHOULD have escorted both outside to DICUSS, in a more private setting the unseemly and VERY unmarine like behavior of both Marines.

Response by SSgt Nancy Holly made Nov 21 at 2016 12:01 PM

SSgt Nancy Holly — Mon, 21 Nov 2016 12:01:07 -0500

The officer didn't handle it properly, the Marine with the cover should have immediately followed orders, and the Sgt Maj was doing his job. The enlisted and junior officer were out of control.

Response by SSgt Nancy Holly made Nov 21 at 2016 12:02 PM

SSgt Nancy Holly — Mon, 21 Nov 2016 12:02:15 -0500

The officer didn't handle it properly, the Marine with the cover should have immediately followed orders, and the Sgt Maj was doing his job. The enlisted and junior officer were both out of control.

Response by SgtMaj Bret Roy made Nov 21 at 2016 1:02 PM

SgtMaj Bret Roy — Mon, 21 Nov 2016 13:02:33 -0500

That SgtMaj probably just saved that kid from NJP, albeit, he's probably going to get more than he bargained for from the SgtMaj! (Just won't end up on his record). A better question would be why an NCO( who was most likely in the same grid square at the time ) not intervene before a junior officer had to! NCO's are the backbone, need to start acting like it! Shouldn't take junior officers or SgtMaj's to make corrections in a public place such as an MCX which was undoubtedly full of more senior enlisted Marines or Sailors (NCO's & PO's).

Response by PO2 Joseph Ritter made Nov 21 at 2016 4:55 PM

PO2 Joseph Ritter — Mon, 21 Nov 2016 16:55:13 -0500

What was the rest of the story

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 22 at 2016 11:29 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 22 Nov 2016 11:29:10 -0500

I was in during the 70s the cashier would have corrected the young marine and if he didn't comply he would be refused service

Response by Sgt Larry Hayes made Nov 23 at 2016 9:47 AM

Sgt Larry Hayes — Wed, 23 Nov 2016 09:47:11 -0500

Let me point out as a old school Marine Sgt. The situation was handled correctly by the Sergeant-Major. This young Marine with his Mommy entered a building on a military reservation in his uniform of the day. Having entered with his cover still on and not under arms was stopped by a Marine Officer and told to remove his cover. The Marine Officer, most likely dress him down in front of Mommy. Air go his disrespect of said Marine Officer. Disobeying a direct order! Article 15. Maybe Article 32. when the Sergeant-Major saw and heard this.He acted swiftly and dragged this dumbass Marine out and probably put his boot up his ass and detained (arrested) him for violating the UCMJ. A Captains Mast for sure, maybe a summery court marshal This is the Marine Corps we are talking about. Marine Officers are to be respected no matter what! There are ways Marine NCO'S can approach a Marine Officer respectfully point out his shortcomings. As for Mommy throwing a sisy fit, well you politely point out the her son is property of the United States Marine Corps

Response by 1LT Ray Hoshaw made Nov 23 at 2016 11:09 AM

1LT Ray Hoshaw — Wed, 23 Nov 2016 11:09:04 -0500

Extra duty if he's extremely lucky!!! Arguing with a junior O (even if butternut) could easily be courts martial offense.

Response by SPC Michael Black made Nov 23 at 2016 7:19 PM

SPC Michael Black — Wed, 23 Nov 2016 19:19:41 -0500

Hard to believe. If a young Marine was indeed stupid enough to say that then his life would pretty much be over as he knows it. The SM wouldn't care if mommy was watching or not. It's about discipline and respect. Anyone who defends the little momma's boy either didn't serve or didn't learn very much about military life.

Response by SPC Michael Black made Nov 23 at 2016 7:19 PM

SPC Michael Black — Wed, 23 Nov 2016 19:19:50 -0500

Response by Muata Morris-omowale made Nov 24 at 2016 1:54 AM

Muata Morris-omowale — Thu, 24 Nov 2016 01:54:30 -0500

A marine with a proper uniform and underarms or a duty belt is allowed to wear a cover indoors...

Response by SSgt Tony Barnes made Nov 24 at 2016 7:17 AM

SSgt Tony Barnes — Thu, 24 Nov 2016 07:17:31 -0500

You are required to remove the cover when it indoors. No matter the circumstances he could have set the cover down on the cashier's desk the counter finished his business retrieve discover and went outside you are a United States Marine you know the rules you are requested by fellow Marine to follow those rules never remove the cover you do not get into a shouting match in a public area you have no privileges you gave those up when you sign on the dotted line just because your mommy is there did not give you a right with a junior officer or a senior enlisted request that you remove the cover so therefore some extra duty is called for here the sergeant major was fully within his rights to dress both of you down in regards to your mother she had no business poking her nose into my business and protocol end of discussion you got that Marineplop

Response by SSgt Tony Barnes made Nov 24 at 2016 7:17 AM

SSgt Tony Barnes — Thu, 24 Nov 2016 07:17:51 -0500

Response by Cpl Brian Johnston made Nov 24 at 2016 8:12 PM

Cpl Brian Johnston — Thu, 24 Nov 2016 20:12:44 -0500

WWCD?

Reminds me of a story I read in a bio of Chesty Puller:

Chesty, at the time a Colonel or Brigadier perhaps, spotted a 2d Lt lording it over a private who was standing at attention saluting the butter-bar over and over.
Chesty asked the 2d Lt what was going on, to which he replied, "This private didn't salute me as required by military etiquette, so I'm reinforcing the correct behaviour with practice."
To this Chesty replied, "You are doing a good thing, Lt. However, according to military etiquette, isn't each and every salute offered to be returned accordingly?"
The 2d Lt gulped, and began returning each and every of the now rapidly accelerating pace of salutes being rendered by the private who now sported a you-know-what-eating grin!

Response by Sgt David Vest made Nov 25 at 2016 9:26 AM

Sgt David Vest — Fri, 25 Nov 2016 09:26:00 -0500

The recruit was in the wrong and the Sergeant Major should have used some discretion and taken their recruit outside and then tore his ass up.

Response by Sgt David Vest made Nov 25 at 2016 9:29 AM

Sgt David Vest — Fri, 25 Nov 2016 09:29:07 -0500

The recruit was in the wrong and it was a Sergeant Majors job to enlighten him. He should have used some discretion and taken the recruit outside and then tore his ass up.

Response by PO3 Lawrence York made Nov 25 at 2016 12:47 PM

PO3 Lawrence York — Fri, 25 Nov 2016 12:47:47 -0500

I know the mother was only trying to protect her son.. But the son is now a Marine.. And she should at least respect that.. I'm also sure the boy knew he was in the wrong too.. Hope all goes well for the son.. Semper Fi Marine ..

Response by CPO KarenLarry McNair made Nov 25 at 2016 2:19 PM

CPO KarenLarry McNair — Fri, 25 Nov 2016 14:19:23 -0500

I would've just walked up and asked him to remove his cover. Just keep it simple, no need to go ballistic!

Response by MAJ Dick Farnsworth made Nov 26 at 2016 8:29 AM

MAJ Dick Farnsworth — Sat, 26 Nov 2016 08:29:52 -0500

First, this was almost two years ago; 12/30/15. I suspect the young marine is just now getting off his extra duty. He was/will be severely disciplined for his comment to the "junior officer," of course; I suggest an Article 15/Captain's Mast as a minimum and that's only if the SgtMaj can talk the officer and their commander down. If it was my troop I'd let the SGM talk me down only to show him his due respect, but I'll be getting a piece of that young troop's hide.

Response by Chris Pinterich made Nov 26 at 2016 6:11 PM

Chris Pinterich — Sat, 26 Nov 2016 18:11:12 -0500

The Marines are their own sovereign body, let them handle their own shit.

Response by SSgt Mark Smith made Nov 27 at 2016 10:29 AM

SSgt Mark Smith — Sun, 27 Nov 2016 10:29:59 -0500

if he was on duty and a duty belt on then it is OK however if he simply forgot he should be approached and politely with a die respect remind him/her has his /her cover on.

Response by Terry Rerich made Nov 28 at 2016 10:22 AM

Terry Rerich — Mon, 28 Nov 2016 10:22:19 -0500

The Military officer in charge was correct! Let me tell you a story! My daughter was NAVY. She wrote letters to me about her fatigue and lack of sleep. I firmly said, "Do I need to come up there and tell them to let my daughter sleep?" (It's a family joke) HER REPLY: 'MOM, I DO NOT BELONG TO YOU ANYMORE. I BELONG TO THE GOVERNMENT! THIS IS THEIR TERRITORY AND YOU ARE VISITING 'MY HOME' NOT YOURS. PLEASE BEHAVE!' (SERIOUSLY, BEHAVE) These soldiers enter the military with the understanding that OFFICERS ARE THEIR 'MAMA'S and so should the MAMAS, understand and relinquish that civilian right to the OFFICERS! IT IS CALLED RESPECT! God bless all the officers and our military soldiers and may God give strength, courage and comfort to the families at ALL TIMES. Ms. Terry Schwintz Rerich PROUD NAVY MOM!

Response by SSgt Catherine Calli made Nov 28 at 2016 2:26 PM

SSgt Catherine Calli — Mon, 28 Nov 2016 14:26:36 -0500

Kind of crazy, but that young Marine was wrong. It doesn't matter if a pier approached him, he was wrong for his response. The officer should have waited until they were outside and delt with it in a professional manner. Sgt major can do what the hell he wants. Mom needed to shut up and stay out of it, it's the Marines not a kindergarten class.

Response by MAJ Erik Wright made Nov 30 at 2016 6:55 AM

MAJ Erik Wright — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 06:55:20 -0500

First, being an officer, there is no way, from my first day to my last, that I ever would have gotten in a yelling match in public. So bad on the junior officer.

Second, if I had heard from that young soldier, "who the fuck are you," I would have immediately taken that soldier outside, and in a calm and measured voice explained to that young man his numerous mistakes.

Third, good for the SM for taking care of the situation professionally. Any officer, particularly a junior officer, that ignores the wisdom and advice of a senior NCO is a fool.

Response by GySgt Wayne Neff made Dec 3 at 2016 9:08 AM

GySgt Wayne Neff — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 09:08:26 -0500

The only time can wear his or her cover in side is when there are under arms. This is part of there training from day one and to wear your cover inside and another Marine should correct him on the spot. Maybe the other service it is ok to wear your cover (hat) inside but not the Marine Corps

Response by Lora Leeson made Dec 9 at 2016 10:26 AM

Lora Leeson — Fri, 09 Dec 2016 10:26:45 -0500

Response by Christian Cherniss made Dec 9 at 2016 12:30 PM

Christian Cherniss — Fri, 09 Dec 2016 12:30:20 -0500

LOL lots of extra duty, a millennial and yes handled perfectly.

Response by MSgt Paul Harrington made Dec 9 at 2016 10:17 PM

MSgt Paul Harrington — Fri, 09 Dec 2016 22:17:18 -0500

Lots of extra training in the future of this recruit.

Response by SSG James Mielke made Dec 10 at 2016 1:41 PM

SSG James Mielke — Sat, 10 Dec 2016 13:41:26 -0500

Not a Marine, just a lowly Army Dogface from the 80s.
This is something that should have been handled as an 'on the spot correction'. Something calm and professional, unless the SM is a repeat offender of this, then something more verbose may be required.

Response by Sgt Timothy Joesting made Dec 10 at 2016 9:44 PM

Sgt Timothy Joesting — Sat, 10 Dec 2016 21:44:28 -0500

From most of the responses have read this young Marine was very lucky to have kindly and understanding SgtMaj. come to is aid It has bee many many moons since I serve in the Corps, I am not full up on how these things are handled today. But I think that this should be handled by the SgtMaj. and his company's First Sgt. If I is anything like when I was in, He shall remember it far longer then a little lose of pay and or brig time. Handle it at the lowest level. Not the highest.

Response by PFC Terrence Hurd made Dec 10 at 2016 9:54 PM

PFC Terrence Hurd — Sat, 10 Dec 2016 21:54:48 -0500

It would never have happened back in 1956. You listened to anyone superior.

Response by GySgt Melissa Gravila made Dec 11 at 2016 4:34 PM

GySgt Melissa Gravila — Sun, 11 Dec 2016 16:34:11 -0500

Several things I want to bring up here- first point, if my son EVER disrespected anyone by using that type of language in public- no worries about extra duties- beware of Mom! 2. Mom should've just kept quiet IMO her son was wrong- period. 3 I understand why the Officer got heated, but he should've risen above it- taken it outside. He is an Officer, set the example. 4 OOHRAH SGTMAJ!!

Response by SSgt Steven Reese made Dec 12 at 2016 4:32 PM

SSgt Steven Reese — Mon, 12 Dec 2016 16:32:35 -0500

First of all. The Young Marine was totally wrong. He needs to go back and read his promotion warrant" "And this appointee is to observe and follow such orders and directions as may be given from time to time by superior acting in according the rules and article governing the discipline of the Armed Forces of the United States of America.
What this dumbass did try to show out in front of Mom . The SgtMaj did exactly what he was suppose to do.

Response by CW3 Ray Gwinn made Dec 16 at 2016 7:00 PM

CW3 Ray Gwinn — Fri, 16 Dec 2016 19:00:59 -0500

My first thought was that maybe this junior enlisted Marine was an imposter or poser. I know, he was on base and in the MCX, but it's not that difficult for a good poser in uniform. Maybe our poser was one of those who wrote back to mommy about what a good Marine he was.

I just can't imagine a young service member, knowing he was in the wrong, responding with "who the f*** are you?"

To complete the evaluation, I think the officer handled it poorly to let it get to a yelling match like that. He certainly needs some etiquette education. He was correct in correcting the young troop, but I think he let the disrespect get his goat. Hopefully, the SgtMaj knows a field grade in the officer's chain of command (hopefully a field grade who was an LT/Capt working with the SgtMaj when he was an Sgt/SSgt!)

As for the SgtMaj, I like his actions. I am surprised he didn't "ask" the officer to come with him, too.

Response by GySgt Robert Linn made Dec 19 at 2016 10:06 PM

GySgt Robert Linn — Mon, 19 Dec 2016 22:06:29 -0500

Would say no shouting need just who I am who r u please remove cover if not probably remove it for take his name unit and called his sgtmaj or co

Response by Sgt John Nichols made Dec 20 at 2016 9:00 AM

Sgt John Nichols — Tue, 20 Dec 2016 09:00:40 -0500

I sure hope he is disciplined. I am a Marine and we were tought to take our covers off inside unless we are under arms. Also you do not talk to an officer with disrespect. That is a violation covered under article 15 of the UCMJ. And his mother needs to stand down because she is not even in this world of crap that her son just got himself in.

Response by Lynda Key made Dec 21 at 2016 12:02 PM

Lynda Key — Wed, 21 Dec 2016 12:02:49 -0500

My question is a tangent to the actual incident. If you take off your cover in a building what do you do with it? I'm assuming he needed both hands for the shopping.

Response by 1stSgt Gregory Weir made Dec 21 at 2016 2:18 PM

1stSgt Gregory Weir — Wed, 21 Dec 2016 14:18:56 -0500

The article fails to state whether the Junior Officer was in uniform or not. If the Junior Officer was not in uniform, he / she should have identified himself / herself by rank and name. Nonetheless, if this is true (and I'm not convinced it is), upon the disrespectful action by the young Marine when told to remove his cover inside the MCX, the Junior Officer should not have engaged in any "shouting match" and should have ordered the young Marine to turn over his ID card, had him identify his unit Commanding Officer and SgtMaj/1stSgt, and informed him he was being detained. The officer should have then contacted the Marine's command (i.e. Duty NCO / Officer) and had them come over and take him into custody for violating Article 89, Disrespect of a Superior Officer. If the Marine's parent command was not on base, the MP's should have been called in and have him taken into custody by them. The SgtMaj in the MCX should have come to the Junior Officer's aid in administering these actions, as should any other superior (NCO) within the building.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 21 at 2016 4:02 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Dec 2016 16:02:16 -0500

Sounds like the "New Army" (applies to all branches). That young Marine will learn quickly when it's a good idea to roger up.

Response by SPC Michael Stedman made Dec 21 at 2016 5:02 PM

SPC Michael Stedman — Wed, 21 Dec 2016 17:02:23 -0500

As I read this the young Marine was in the wrong for wearing his cover in doors. Being in a hurry is no excuse. The only time a cover is to be worn indoors is if the duty being performed dictates or if you are under arms. With that being said, there is nothing in the story that says the junior officer was in uniform or not so I'm going to speculate that he was not due to the young Marines reaction. Also there is nothing in the story that says whether or not the junior officer identified himself, I'm going to assume he did. So going off of incomplete information I would honestly say both the young Marine and the junior officer were ultimately in the wrong. The Sergeant Major was in his right to get the situation under control. I can only speculate at what discipline befell the young Marine. As for his mother, she only saw her son being attacked for something and did what any mother would, defended her child.

This situation isn't that strange to me as I have personally seen it play out in various ways.

Response by A1C Cathy Valentine made Dec 21 at 2016 10:10 PM

A1C Cathy Valentine — Wed, 21 Dec 2016 22:10:54 -0500

Just shows the lack of discipline in today's society, the mother should have kept her mouth shut and shown respect when her son was escorted out rather than validating his behavior.

Response by Sgt Bob Leonard made Dec 23 at 2016 11:33 AM

Sgt Bob Leonard — Fri, 23 Dec 2016 11:33:51 -0500

In an ideal world....

The young Marine would have removed his cover w hen directed to do so by a Officer, even if he thought the Officer was wrong.

In a world one step away from ideal, the Officer would have taken note of the Marine's name and rank and gone through the Chain of Command to discipline him. (That one sounds so lame, I question whether I should even leave it posted here, but that is my thought... (for pity's sake, even with name and rank, how do you find one Marine on a facility like Camp Pendleton?))

In the real world... Thank goodness for Senior NCOs who know the importance of discipline and decorum.

(I'm certain there,s more than one Marine here who is rolling their eyes at the thought of an ex-USAF Vet commenting on a Marine issue.... What can I say? I embrace Col. Nathan Jessup's comment re: "You want me on that wall. You NEED me on tha t wall!" I question whether I could have made it as a Marine, but I have utmost respect for the Corps.)

PS. As far as possible, the mother needed to be ignored, or schooled in the reality that her 'little boy' is a United States Marine, not her fair haired young son.

Response by Amn Bill Collom Sr made Dec 24 at 2016 8:23 AM

Amn Bill Collom Sr — Sat, 24 Dec 2016 08:23:47 -0500

Mamma better leave it alone. In close quarters combat, an enemy is apt to lay hands on "her boy" to KILL him. He'd better be able to stay poised long enough to save his own ass. The lesson will be good for him.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 24 at 2016 9:32 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Dec 2016 21:32:37 -0500

Not passing the sniff test here. No Marine would disrespect an officer in a MCX in public like that. Plus if the Marine was with his Mother he was probably extra motivated and showed extreme discipline. As far as the SgtMaj coming from the back, I highly doubt it. Any Marines standing ear shot would have intervened at the slightest disrespect shown. Not believing this one but. Entertaining though.

Response by Cpl Dave Reed made Dec 26 at 2016 11:35 AM

Cpl Dave Reed — Mon, 26 Dec 2016 11:35:36 -0500

The junior officer should have asked the young marine to step to the side after identifying himself and requested his military Id. . Then proceed to insist he remove his cover indoors like he was trained to do and use a proper way to free his hands until he could put it on before going outside . And then let him know his disrespect would be reported . If the young marine continued to disobey the orders it then would have to immediately escalate .

Response by CPO Bill Penrod made Dec 27 at 2016 6:47 AM

CPO Bill Penrod — Tue, 27 Dec 2016 06:47:14 -0500

I would take take the mom for coffee....

Response by SPC David Hack made Dec 27 at 2016 1:26 PM

SPC David Hack — Tue, 27 Dec 2016 13:26:21 -0500

Oh yeah, the youngster was wrong for putting his cover on inside! As I remember my training the only time you're under cover is if you're under arms, any other time unless your hands are full when you come inside your cover comes off!

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Dec 27 at 2016 10:38 PM

SPC Byron Skinner — Tue, 27 Dec 2016 22:38:22 -0500

Sp4 Byron Skinner The problem here is not about a "hat" its about discipline or I guess the lack of it. This is a failure of the Marine recruit training process, it is a failure of all of the NCO's and officers this young has encountered. The disrespect to an officer has no excuse. Military courtesy use to be the first thing a recruit was taught and it was reinforced by a quick kick from a size 11 in the six. The inability of a Colonel to be to timid in correcting the problem in front of his mama is also inexcusable Can an officer this timid actually lead a Regiment in combat? Well I guess as long as there are no mothers around. Retired, is not an excuse.

Response by SSgt Cliff Bowers made Dec 28 at 2016 6:36 AM

SSgt Cliff Bowers — Wed, 28 Dec 2016 06:36:18 -0500

The SgtMaj handled it properly. The fact a young Marine would EVER put their cover on indoors, unless Under Arms of course, ESPECIALLY in the Exchange tells me he has some disciplinary issues. The Junior Officer shows his lack of leadership capability by yelling in an effort to correct the Marine. The officer should have id'd himself and got the Marines name and unit. Then you inform the Marines SgtMaj and the problem will be addressed effectively. The SgtMaj on deck in the exchange had no choice but to intervene since BOTH Marines were acting with Conduct Unbecoming.

Response by SSgt Cliff Bowers made Dec 28 at 2016 6:42 AM

SSgt Cliff Bowers — Wed, 28 Dec 2016 06:42:56 -0500

I assumed the COL meant that the young Marine was in uniform. This incident seems a bit mor plausible if he was in civies and put on a ball cap. I can see two young Marines checking sizes when confronted but I have a VERY difficult time visualizing a Marine in uniform yelling at anyone in the exchange.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Dec 28 at 2016 8:49 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Wed, 28 Dec 2016 08:49:04 -0500

Probably, I would have seen this troop the next morning with his NCO chain of command for some serious counseling for wearing a cover inside, failure to follow orders, insubordination, etc. Seriously doubt his mother would be seeing him for some time to come

Response by SSgt Bruce Wood made Dec 28 at 2016 12:24 PM

SSgt Bruce Wood — Wed, 28 Dec 2016 12:24:59 -0500

In my time he would have been immediately put on restriction to the barracks whether he was married or his mother there or not. This kind of disrespect would not be tolerated in the Marine Corps. As far as the Officer was concerned, he would of been counseled by who ever he was responsible to. This should not happened and will not be tolerated in the Marine Corps.

Response by GySgt Steve Hamby made Dec 28 at 2016 4:15 PM

GySgt Steve Hamby — Wed, 28 Dec 2016 16:15:19 -0500

The young "Marine" (sounds like a 10%er) was wrong, disrespectful, and insubordinate. SgtMaj did the only correct thing possible in that situation. Two ways to handle it:
1. Go by the book and write him up, NJP, etc.
2. Turn him over to his Gunny (or other SNCO/NCO) and let them handle it 'in an appropriate manner' (Old Corps). Dig a few foxholes, stand a 12 hour post in 29 Palms during August, etc.

(Id also take into account the Marine's past record - if spotless or nearly so - use Option 2 so it doesn't screw his record. If he is a true shitbag, then Option 1, and get him out.)

Response by LCpl Paul Baumeister made Dec 29 at 2016 6:43 AM

LCpl Paul Baumeister — Thu, 29 Dec 2016 06:43:59 -0500

Do they still have "pits"? He's probably still in it...

Response by CW3 Bob Weitzeil made Dec 29 at 2016 8:47 AM

CW3 Bob Weitzeil — Thu, 29 Dec 2016 08:47:35 -0500

yes

Response by PO3 John Priest made Dec 29 at 2016 9:52 AM

PO3 John Priest — Thu, 29 Dec 2016 09:52:00 -0500

In my short nearly 6 years in the Navy I learned a few things on that topic...People you don't want to piss off...

1) Any Gunnery MOS that is E-6 or above
2) Any E-7 or above regardless of rating
3) Personnel Department people.

I would say that both the Junior Officer and the young Marine both got an education that day, and yeah the young Marine probably did get some real mandatory fun too as part of his education. As in the mandatory fun of explaining to his mom what he did wrong, along with his reduction in rank, and the point that he will not be going anywhere outside of his duties for a LONG time.

Response by LTC Pete Moore made Dec 29 at 2016 11:35 AM

LTC Pete Moore — Thu, 29 Dec 2016 11:35:26 -0500

UCMJ if he were mine (EM) and a little counseling for the JO. JO it's ok to be as hard as woodpecker lips but you gotta have discretion too- never walk past a wrong but make corrections in a professional manner. Show me your ID Card and tell me your unit CSM's/1SG/ etcetera name. Had a Navy Officer try that once- it happens, be professional. BTW momma needs to follow rules too or she can leave the MCX and the installation - privledge

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Dec 29 at 2016 2:54 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Thu, 29 Dec 2016 14:54:14 -0500

When I was young boy, my father had this technique for scolding us in public. He did not get loud, he was a mechanic by trade, and all those years of pulling heads by hand gave him incredible finger strength. He would put a vise lock crimp with his fingers, on the back of your triceps, that got your immediate attention, then he would whisper in your ear, so that only the two of us knew what was said, "Wait till you get home." Nothing more ever needed to be said.

I won't question if it was or wasn't true, stranger stuff has happened. I think the Jr Officer could of handled it better IMHO. A simple hand signal to the Marine in with the hat, or whisper in the young mans ear should of of quelled the situation. Had that not worked, a pull tot he side out of Mom's ear range and identifying himself to the enlisted man should of ended it there. Had enlisted man decided to escalate the situation, the Officer would of done well to escort the young man out doors/out of the MCX and handled it from there.

Response by SGT Chester Beedle made Dec 30 at 2016 1:58 AM

SGT Chester Beedle — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 01:58:02 -0500

It sounds like a Colonel or Lieutenant Colonel or two will be speaking to their Marines. The Junior Marines... I'm going to assume PFC or a Junior Lance, for mouthing off to an Officer. Second the batallion commander of the LT for getting into a shouting match.
That PFC needs to have some NJP in his future for being a moron. That LT needs to have some education on how to do things in public when someone shows their ass. Getting into a screaming match isn't the way to handle it, whether officer or NCO. The comments about detaining him or getting MPs to do so are the right ones.

Response by PFC Francis Ramseyer made Dec 30 at 2016 7:52 AM

PFC Francis Ramseyer — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 07:52:37 -0500

Good reaction, the SgtMaj did what he had to do.

Response by PO1 Rodney Bracey made Dec 30 at 2016 7:56 AM

PO1 Rodney Bracey — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 07:56:08 -0500

Was the junior officer in uniform or civilian clothes? I assume in civilian attire and the JO should have identified himself first, with his ID card, before telling the Marine to remove his cover.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2016 4:30 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 16:30:02 -0500

Interesting and I do believe it given the swing in the training of the services to attract today's youth but that's another story. I do know that the custom and courtesy of removing your cover indoors is still in effect. I also know that challenging a officer in public in a hostile manner is a sign of disrespect. I have served TDY's on Navy bases and we currently have a Marine unit on our post. I can see the action playing out as you describe. The officer was within his authority to make a spot correction. Understanding the Marine nature they are NCO driven and the bulk of the authority, internal discipline, and respect for fellow comrades are embedded deeply within the NCO Core. Saying that would the CSM/SGM be the final word in defusing the situation? Most definitely. I had a Marine tell me "we respect you but we fear the CSM/SGM and its a big difference!" I am quite sure he will be reprimanded in some form for his lack of respect but I don't imagine too hard.

Response by CSM Jim Hardin made Dec 31 at 2016 6:46 AM

CSM Jim Hardin — Sat, 31 Dec 2016 06:46:44 -0500

Everyone thinks that the Man was in Uniform!!!. WHAT if he was NO and the JNCO just jumped his ass for having a hat on?????? Most people working in the PX DON'T know the rules for the Military NO MATTER WHO THEY ARE MARRIED TOO.

Response by Shannon Lake made Jan 4 at 2017 4:48 AM

Shannon Lake — Wed, 04 Jan 2017 04:48:47 -0500

It never should have escalated. The mother should have reminded her son to remove his cover before the Junior Officer ever arrived. However, I would have respectfully asked the SgtMaj to have those two boys stand at attention for me. Within 60 seconds the Junior Officer would have learned a valuable lesson, my son would not ever be able to have his cover on indoors without his skin crawling and the SgtMaj would, despite his best efforts, crack a smile when nobody was looking. If that mother did not possess those skills, she should have stepped out of the way and kept her mouth shut.

My son would not have dared to act that way outside of my sight much less in my presence. The failure of manners alone would have flown like a lead balloon with me. Of course, I am a Navy mom, my husband is ex-Army and my family has a history of service going all the way back to the American Revolution. Therefore, I probably have a little different perspective than that young man's mother.

Response by SGT Brett Heisler made Jan 4 at 2017 8:01 AM

SGT Brett Heisler — Wed, 04 Jan 2017 08:01:27 -0500

Well done SgtMaj!! In my opinion he should have escorted both Marines outside for further education!

Response by SSgt Gary Hudgins made Jan 4 at 2017 7:34 PM

SSgt Gary Hudgins — Wed, 04 Jan 2017 19:34:05 -0500

Should have been handled with a little more finesse than it was. It sounds like the officer approached in a discreet manner. The young Marine should have responded with a lot more respect, (even if the officer was wearing civvies). As far as the SgtMaj is concerned, he did the right thing. They are the ones who can get away with dressing down a jr. officer when he's blatantly wrong.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2017 4:33 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Jan 2017 04:33:33 -0500

Only Time I was allowed to wear my cover indoors is when I was under arms as an MP, other then that it came off. That Marine should have said "Roger that Sir I apologize for having my cover on indoors" and Mom needs to realize her son is in the Military not her, she does not outrank anyone, and yelling " Don't touch my boy" at a CSM. All she needs to know is her son screwed up and now he's going to give his soul to God because his ass belongs to the CSM

Response by MSgt Steve Dominguez made Jan 8 at 2017 12:19 AM

MSgt Steve Dominguez — Sun, 08 Jan 2017 00:19:55 -0500

So I was in the BX and came across a Col with his hat on I said in a low voice " Sir did you know you have your Hat ON?" HE said Thanks and looked around I guess to see if anyone else noticed I was just E-5 USAF at the time. Everyone makes a mistake some time. MSGT Ret USAF

Response by LCpl Jeff Daughtry made Jan 13 at 2017 10:12 AM

LCpl Jeff Daughtry — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 10:12:35 -0500

Sgt Major handled with all his experience and expertise. Unless your under arms Marines never...I repeat NEVER wear a cover indoors. Period!!!

Response by CPO Jesse Booth made Jan 14 at 2017 8:26 PM

CPO Jesse Booth — Sat, 14 Jan 2017 20:26:53 -0500

Uncover, and press forward...
You don't see that on Parris Island.

Response by Cissy Dana made Jan 16 at 2017 3:20 PM

Cissy Dana — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 15:20:45 -0500

To the woman, "Excuse me Ma'am". Immediately to the Junior Marine, "Step Aside and don't move an inch". To the 'covered' Marine, "You are on Report. Report to blah blah blah, now remove your cover until you exit this building.
To the Junior Marine, speaking 'quietly', " Get your M..... F...... A.. outta here before I Shove your head so far up your A.. you blah blah blah.
LMAO

Response by PO1 Boyd Davis made Jan 17 at 2017 4:15 PM

PO1 Boyd Davis — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 16:15:27 -0500

Young Marine should have said Sir with all due respect to your rank. you need to remove your cover.

Response by Brett Hardman made Jan 17 at 2017 5:58 PM

Brett Hardman — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 17:58:01 -0500

shit burning detail for him

Response by PFC Charles Sanders made Jan 19 at 2017 11:18 PM

PFC Charles Sanders — Thu, 19 Jan 2017 23:18:11 -0500

Me and a buddy were playing basketball at the court just outside our AIT barracks at Ft. Gordon one evening. It was just light enough to see the rim, but not much more. I saw a member of the cadre walking by and she said hello. Young woman, early to mid-twenties. We responded appropriately and kept playing ball. As she walked by I hollered out "goodbye whoever you are!" Not trying to be an ass, just being nice and playful. Apparently that's where I went wrong. She turned around and ordered us to come over to her. As I got closer I saw a silver bar on her beret flicker in the moonlight. Mentally I said "Oh shit, I've done it now..." She locked us up and started to chew our butts. As soon as I was able I apologized and explained that I didn't realize what her rank was and thought she was just a specialist in the cadre (there were a lot of those walking around). She called the duty drill sergeant out there and chewed his butt, handed us over to him, and left. He dropped us like he was gonna smoke the dogcrap out of us, waited till she turned the corner and asked me what the hell I was thinking. I responded that I didn't realize her rank when I said it and didn't mean anything by it. He just laughed and told us to get out of his view, lol. The difference from the above, I knew I had screwed up and acted accordingly! lol

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2017 9:26 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 21 Jan 2017 21:26:52 -0500

Sir....over the years I have seen and been in similar situations.....a couple years ago I was at the PX and made a correction to a private, who was talking to Marine trainees awaiting hair cuts, who promptly ignored me...thinking because I was not a Drill Sergeant, i was an instructor, I could not affect him in any meaningful way. I looked down the hallway and saw one of me DS "Battle Buddies" and pointed at the private...game almost over.. the Marines scattered as my buddy stalked down the hall. I told he what happened and let him handle it from there adding that when the company came to my classes the following week that private would be my AI.
I have also at other time just said who is your Drill Sergeant.....picked up my phone..dialed and then told the private it was for him and he was wanted at the company area :)

I have also seen some strange things when parents are "nearby" but most of the time they dont want to get embarrassed while mommy and daddy are there.

Response by SSgt John Gajdos made Jan 24 at 2017 8:18 PM

SSgt John Gajdos — Tue, 24 Jan 2017 20:18:02 -0500

All I can say is the military has drastically changed. If that behavior is not addressed as the SgtMaj appeared to do that by grabbing the young Marine. The mother didn't help,

Response by PV2 Glen Lewis made Jan 25 at 2017 12:14 PM

PV2 Glen Lewis — Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:14:52 -0500

I already answered this but in my day he would have been chewed out big-time. One of the first things we were educated on was that you did not wear a cover in a building. My drill sergeant's notice of this was unnecessary as it was one of the things my parents told me was disrespectful when I was a kid. Probably around 4 or 5 years old.

Response by 1SG Harold Piet made Jan 31 at 2017 5:53 AM

1SG Harold Piet — Tue, 31 Jan 2017 05:53:01 -0500

Smells Like BS. No young marine would have responded that way on post.

Response by SSgt Michael Cox made Feb 1 at 2017 11:31 AM

SSgt Michael Cox — Wed, 01 Feb 2017 11:31:33 -0500

With the attitudes a lot of millennial's have these days I could see this happen. I had several problems with troops in the AF before I separated in 09'. They don't seem to like to follow orders and act like spoiled teens even when in their 20s. They aren't limited to just enlisted though and sometimes young officers are like young nco's and think that they are god until they are put in their place. I'm sure the SgtMaj informed the officer commander about his young officer also so it wasn't just the young marine that was in trouble.

Response by MSgt Loren Pierce made Feb 2 at 2017 12:15 PM

MSgt Loren Pierce — Thu, 02 Feb 2017 12:15:29 -0500

The Sgt.Maj. was completely out of line and this could have been dealt with a more appropriate time and been a lot less embarrassing on the family member involved. The Sgt.Maj may have been wearing his feathers proud that day and believed he was in the right but those parents are civilians and a US Congressman or Senator would love nothing more than to dress down a base CC for the actions of one of his people that caused embarrassment or humiliation to a civilian family member of a young recruit. When a Base CC gets the inquiry from HQ from a politician and he must respond within 72 hours or less, there is never any good that comes from that.

Response by SSG Gerald Dees made Feb 2 at 2017 12:57 PM

SSG Gerald Dees — Thu, 02 Feb 2017 12:57:20 -0500

Well done

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2017 11:48 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Feb 2017 23:48:28 -0500

Speaking for the Army only, you don't get out of Basic without knowing the rules for when to wear your cover and when not to. I'm assuming the same for Paris Island. The Junior Officer should not have lost his temper. The SgtMgr did the right thing. The young Marine screwed up. Lots of extra duty is/was in his immediate future.

Response by Cpl Myron Cotton made Feb 3 at 2017 2:00 PM

Cpl Myron Cotton — Fri, 03 Feb 2017 14:00:05 -0500

Lots of pushups in the mud

Response by PFC Ronald Vickery made Feb 3 at 2017 6:35 PM

PFC Ronald Vickery — Fri, 03 Feb 2017 18:35:03 -0500

Wear your cover , where ever it is requared , according to rules and regulation.

Response by Sgt Chuck Schneider made Feb 4 at 2017 1:20 AM

Sgt Chuck Schneider — Sat, 04 Feb 2017 01:20:52 -0500

Properly handled. Officer was correct in addressing the issue, but wrong in the method. Senior enlisted was walking a fine line with the officer but defused the situation. Junior enlisted should be disciplined under the UCMJ

Response by SGT Gary DeFelippo made Feb 5 at 2017 8:04 PM

SGT Gary DeFelippo — Sun, 05 Feb 2017 20:04:18 -0500

Bring it to the attention of all.

Response by LCpl James Stevens made Feb 6 at 2017 7:11 AM

LCpl James Stevens — Mon, 06 Feb 2017 07:11:05 -0500

First the young Marine should not have had is cover on till exiting the building.... secondly the JO should have ID himself when someone asked and the SgtMaj is the badass that everyone knows not to mess with lmao

Response by SP5 Albert Clark made Feb 7 at 2017 9:29 PM

SP5 Albert Clark — Tue, 07 Feb 2017 21:29:15 -0500

Smack it off his fucking head

Response by CN Ron Hermanowicz made Feb 8 at 2017 7:05 AM

CN Ron Hermanowicz — Wed, 08 Feb 2017 07:05:28 -0500

I would have to know more details before i makw decision

Response by SPC David Escamilla made Feb 8 at 2017 12:37 PM

SPC David Escamilla — Wed, 08 Feb 2017 12:37:35 -0500

Proper thing to do is remove your head gear when inside

Response by SGT Jody Beach made Feb 14 at 2017 8:30 AM

SGT Jody Beach — Tue, 14 Feb 2017 08:30:06 -0500

I believe the SgtMaj handled it and that should be the end of it. I was not there and have not been in the service for years. Yet I do notice more and more the lack of discipline coming from the younger generation.
This Marine was checking out. Therefore he was preparing to walk outside & more then likely carrying a bag. There are no defining lines on to when you remove it or put it on.... Lets all use some common sense here.

Response by Cpl Jim Gilstrap made Feb 16 at 2017 2:57 PM

Cpl Jim Gilstrap — Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:57:47 -0500

I believe I have the same answer I did the first time I saw this on my timeline. The Cpl was WAY out of line questioning the officer to start. The officer came in second in the WHAT were you thinking game. SgtMaj is always right, I mean, in this case, the SgtMaj was definitely justified. Grabbing by the collar isn't smacking him around, although mama may have been concerned, she should let her young man be one and take his little punishment. ....Although I never wore a cover indoors unless under arms, I would have apologized to the Lt and removed it.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2017 12:17 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Feb 2017 12:17:02 -0500

uh, yeah, I see A LOT of extra duty for BOTH marines here...I find it kind of funny that other marines hit the deck when the Sgt Major came forward, but I figure that's how marines are built...yeah, it definitely WAS handled correctly. I mean, how ELSE could it be handled? sounds to ME that this is/was THE BEST WAY. No, I'm NOT a marine...

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2017 7:39 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Feb 2017 07:39:19 -0500

It appears to me that the young officer should have handled the situation in private. It was not a safety issue or emergency. A little diplomacy would have done the job without creating a scene. The young Marine overreacted and disrespected an officer. The SgtMaj took immediate and decisive action and defused the situation. As to extra duty/charges/punishment-something for sure. I hope the young officer received some 'counseling' from the SgtMaj. If not it might happen again. Nothing for the mother (grin).

Response by Sgt Daniels Marquette made Feb 23 at 2017 8:21 AM

Sgt Daniels Marquette — Thu, 23 Feb 2017 08:21:02 -0500

Would have yoked the son a bitch out of his skin.freaking shitbird.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2017 8:43 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Mar 2017 20:43:16 -0500

You guys have beat this dead horse to death again.

Response by LCpl Jermaine Jaz Jones made Mar 4 at 2017 11:04 AM

LCpl Jermaine Jaz Jones — Sat, 04 Mar 2017 11:04:41 -0500

Smack it off his head swiftly with force

Response by Sgt Matt Dean made Mar 18 at 2017 4:58 AM

Sgt Matt Dean — Sat, 18 Mar 2017 04:58:48 -0400

I believe the officer was right by correcting the junior marine but in front of family you don't get aggressive, you simply remind. The junior marine then responds with a attitude at this point you inform the marine, I am a officer and I ask for your respect and again let the marine know that it's against marine tradition to where a cover inside. If the junior gets big balls and wants to act tough at that point I'm glad a sgtmajor was there to correct the marine in the manner he needed to be. Regardless if the officer is a puny dusch you still show respect, follow tradition and if you don't a salty sgt maj will make you look like a ass in front of whoever bc you deserve it! You're a marine act like one and respect the. Pros and it's tradition

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Mar 18 at 2017 8:13 AM

SSG Edward Tilton — Sat, 18 Mar 2017 08:13:28 -0400

The Sergeant Major was correct, (as always). The young officer tried. Why in the world would he need a mother if he has a Sergeant Major

Response by Cpl Ryan Berry made Mar 29 at 2017 10:10 PM

Cpl Ryan Berry — Wed, 29 Mar 2017 22:10:07 -0400

We immediately go after this "very confused" Marine Pvt or PFC, and I am not sticking up for him or his "mommy" one bit. But I do question if this Marine was possibly section 8 and his mother was there because she is visiting the young lad while final paperwork is being completed to get him the hell out of our beloved USMC. Just a question or something to maybe even rationalize why this "possible mental patient" would act that way. If not....then it's scary that a Marine would have the audacity to act that way. Always goes back in my head "what's going to happen in combat"?

Response by Cpl Ryan Berry made Mar 29 at 2017 10:23 PM

Cpl Ryan Berry — Wed, 29 Mar 2017 22:23:17 -0400

Good question someone asked- At that time are you allowed to "thrash" said Marine and his mommy?

Response by 1SG Mike Discher made Mar 30 at 2017 5:47 PM

1SG Mike Discher — Thu, 30 Mar 2017 17:47:46 -0400

Makes my knees weak just thinking about it!

Response by LTC Lewis Cox made Apr 9 at 2017 7:17 PM

LTC Lewis Cox — Sun, 09 Apr 2017 19:17:05 -0400

I would leave him and go straight to his Squad Leader. "You talk to him Sergeant then bring him straight to my office". I expect the Squad Leader would refresh his memory as to living in the Stockade and as a Clean Sleeve, receiving much less money. As soon as he walked into mt office I would began reading Article 31 from the UCMJ. when I saw his pant leg begin to quiver, I would began chewing him out! I'll know when I've reached him and will stop. If it was a FIRST OFFENSE I will tell him to think about what we have discussed and send him to the barracks. If it was second or more offince he would go straight to the stockade. The First Souldier would start the paperwork to rid the Army of a Goodup!

Response by Sgt Michael Clifford made Apr 23 at 2017 11:40 PM

Sgt Michael Clifford — Sun, 23 Apr 2017 23:40:53 -0400

The officer should never have gotten into a public shouting match. He should identify himself and instruct the young Marine as to what he wanted him to do. It is remarkable that a young Marine would react with that kind of language in front of his mother or anyone else since most likely everyone out ranks him. SgtMaj. did what a SgtMaj does.............take charge and provide leadership to both the young Marine and the junior officer.

Response by SGT Charles Bartell made Apr 25 at 2017 4:11 PM

SGT Charles Bartell — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 16:11:08 -0400

The Young Marine was wrong. Head gear is only worn inside as part of a duty or official function. Not knowing how the officer approached the young Marine may have had something to do his reaction.
Still Last time I checked officer still out ranks enlisted. Now when it comes to A Sargent Major. If The Officer if they have any brains they will go along with the experience vs. rank.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Apr 25 at 2017 4:36 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 16:36:17 -0400

The junior officer selected the wrong location and time to make a correction. I understand the theory of not "walking past a mistake," but tact and judgement sometimes require an infraction be addressed later. The reaction of the young enlisted was equally incorrect. He should have removed his cover (hat for the AF people) with a "yes, sir. sorry, sir." It would have been over. (Despite the Marine probably being red-faced at being corrected in front of his family, nothing more need happen. His Mom probably knew her son was young and apt to do stupid stuff sometimes.)

The young officer might have ordered the junior Marine to see him at his office or place of duty at a specified date and time. This being a direct order, the young Marine should comply. At that place and time the officer could council the junior enlisted on uniform standards and behavioral expectations.

The Sgt Maj was being a Sgt Maj. He was solving the problem in the most constructive way he knew how. Removing the young Marine from the public area to discuss the uniform infraction was appropriate. I hope the officer learned something.

Response by SSG Brian G. made Apr 25 at 2017 4:43 PM

SSG Brian G. — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 16:43:32 -0400

There is something missing from this story. Just going to drop that and leave that there.
As to to appropriateness of the action in the MCX? If the young Marine was in uniform with his mother, whether on duty or not and had his cover on and mouthed off as he did then he is in the wrong straight down the line.

At the point where it escalated into a shouting match in public that was when BOTH the Marine in line and the Junior Officer were in the wrong.

I can tell you though this sounds fishy as EVERY military person that goes through boot has it drilled into them by an unmerciful cadre to remove their covers when indoors and you learn that lesson quick or you spend a lot of time pounding out pushups. I cannot see any enlisted person acting in this unprofessional manner.

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2017 8:18 AM

Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 08:18:57 -0400

I thought Marines are allowed to wear their covers indoors ? Please correct me if I'm wrong !

Response by PV2 Kenny Klein made May 6 at 2017 7:51 PM

PV2 Kenny Klein — Sat, 06 May 2017 19:51:45 -0400

Probably could've. Web handled better but maybe he ought to of read the handbook a little better.

Response by PFC Ty Heine made May 7 at 2017 12:02 AM

PFC Ty Heine — Sun, 07 May 2017 00:02:59 -0400

Affirmitive Xtra duty loss of rank and pay

Response by SPC Michael Snow made May 7 at 2017 8:30 AM

SPC Michael Snow — Sun, 07 May 2017 08:30:27 -0400

Failure to adapt. Kick his ass out!

Response by Courtney Jack made May 8 at 2017 12:33 PM

Courtney Jack — Mon, 08 May 2017 12:33:29 -0400

Sir. Yes Sir.
SgtMaj owns that young Marine.
Semper Fi.

Response by MSgt Terry Mahan made May 8 at 2017 5:02 PM

MSgt Terry Mahan — Mon, 08 May 2017 17:02:29 -0400

Can not say for Marines but an Air Force junior enlisted does not argue with officers no matter if officer was right or wrong. If it had occured I would have gotten the name of both and thier organizations and supervisor. I would have firmly but politely advised the officer that he might reconsider his conduct in emgaging in an arguement in a public place among civilians. Then I would have ordered the young enlisted man outside for a proper lesson in officer/enlisted edicate. As for the mom, I would have advised her (as politely as possible) that her son was in the military and had violated multiple customes and courtesy's. As soon as possible I would have contacted thr different supervisors of the incident, what I witnessed and what I did.

Response by Catherine Hartford made May 8 at 2017 5:14 PM

Catherine Hartford — Mon, 08 May 2017 17:14:42 -0400

Discipline his ass!! What a great disregard towards your chain of command... tisk tisk...

Response by LCpl Barry Kenes made May 8 at 2017 6:40 PM

LCpl Barry Kenes — Mon, 08 May 2017 18:40:11 -0400

The young marine should have just taken his cover off. The only time you are to have your cover on in doors is when you are under arms

Response by CAPT Dave Woodard made May 8 at 2017 8:27 PM

CAPT Dave Woodard — Mon, 08 May 2017 20:27:26 -0400

That young Marine has more gonads than brains - EMI (Extra Military Instruction) is in his future.

Response by CDR Tk Byrne made May 8 at 2017 8:51 PM

CDR Tk Byrne — Mon, 08 May 2017 20:51:29 -0400

Taught in boot camp no cover indoors with few exceptions. Young zero correct but overbearing. SGM just being SGM. No confusion out of his roar.

Response by SA Sean O'Hair made May 8 at 2017 9:31 PM

SA Sean O'Hair — Mon, 08 May 2017 21:31:31 -0400

Uhhhhm, someone will be very very sad. LMAO

Response by Sgt Darwin Merkes made May 8 at 2017 10:47 PM

Sgt Darwin Merkes — Mon, 08 May 2017 22:47:36 -0400

This is how young marines act these days and its ms fault as well as the corp. Life has been made to easy in boot. The SgtMaj. Did the right thing by escorting him out. The young marine needs to be bent and given another round of boot camp with the sgtmaj. In my opinion
Semper Fi

Response by CPL Les Crawford made May 9 at 2017 12:10 AM

CPL Les Crawford — Tue, 09 May 2017 00:10:35 -0400

While you are on active status you conduct yourself accordingly, you are never truly off duty. You can never forget who you are after discharge , a Veteran who served with honor and respect.

Response by Cpl Matthias Mcmillan made May 9 at 2017 1:50 AM

Cpl Matthias Mcmillan — Tue, 09 May 2017 01:50:45 -0400

The young marine needs to learn more respect. The Sergeant Major did what was need to get the point across. The mother needs to learn that the marines don't have time to tells someone twice to do anything. The second time they have to be told could cost them their life. The young marine needs to learn that being a marine is not an 8 to 5 job. IT IS A WAY OF LIFE. RESPECT is always required at all times NOT just on base or when you get out. It is also for life.

Response by Ina Sowders made May 9 at 2017 6:51 AM

Ina Sowders — Tue, 09 May 2017 06:51:07 -0400

The respectful thing was for the young Marine too remove the cover. Discipline is the key to training which could save a life. The young Marine was wrong. The mother should have stayed out of it.

Response by Sgt Patrick Flanagan made May 9 at 2017 11:15 AM

Sgt Patrick Flanagan — Tue, 09 May 2017 11:15:06 -0400

Had it been me as a sgt E5 I would have taken him aside and reminded him of uniform wearing
Regulations Marines only wear a
Cover indoors if under arms.

Response by Rich Kadish made May 9 at 2017 11:48 AM

Rich Kadish — Tue, 09 May 2017 11:48:56 -0400

It's on his superior officer to handle, they don't have a thing called chain of command for nothing. All you can do is make sure you, yourself am in 100% compliance, let the chain of command do what it is there to do. However, if an activity is life threatening, or risks a serious injury, better to speak up, risk punishment, but at least have peace of mind.

Response by Edward Cristinziani made May 9 at 2017 3:38 PM

Edward Cristinziani — Tue, 09 May 2017 15:38:41 -0400

Once you become a miltary member your superior owns you , until you out rank him he or she owns you , I never served but my grandfathers , uncles , cousins and friends did and do serve , I hear a lot of stories but at the end of the day they loved their job and their time in the military , with that being said these rules are put into place because you represent our country and countrymen , to disrespect your superior, to me is a high offense and should not be taken lightly , if that offends you or your mommy the Marines was probably a bad choice , just think if this soilder disobeyed a direct order on the field he would cost someone their life , if you are asked to do something in the military , especially by a officer , do it and really fast too

Response by Doug Stier made May 9 at 2017 4:24 PM

Doug Stier — Tue, 09 May 2017 16:24:21 -0400

I don't care what military you're in if you're a drill sergeant tells you to do something you do it and keep your mouth shut and learn respect

Response by CPL Michael Timm made May 9 at 2017 6:14 PM

CPL Michael Timm — Tue, 09 May 2017 18:14:48 -0400

Don't mess with sgt major

Response by LCDR Tom Wootton made May 9 at 2017 10:46 PM

LCDR Tom Wootton — Tue, 09 May 2017 22:46:43 -0400

This is why God created non-commissioned officers. No officer should get into a shouting match with an enlisted member. If a non-com is nearby, hand the problem over to him/her. If no non-com is available, simply state the obvious truth, "I'm sorry, Lance-Corporal" (or whatever), that you can't see things the correct way. If we cannot come to an understanding, I can arrange a conversation between you and your Commanding Officer over a green felt table. Your call. I'll accept your decision either way."

Response by SSgt Robert King made May 9 at 2017 11:21 PM

SSgt Robert King — Tue, 09 May 2017 23:21:20 -0400

Calmly in public. Too many families to shout. Scaring little kids. But do have respect and remove your cover inside. We were taught that in basics and should have been programned into his mindset as a Marine anyway.

Response by William Brasher made May 10 at 2017 7:34 AM

William Brasher — Wed, 10 May 2017 07:34:06 -0400

The Sgt Major took change of two Marines out of line. Bobby Brasher former Ssgt

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2017 7:48 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 May 2017 07:48:38 -0400

I think the SGM handled the situation the right way. Who cares about the Marines mother, his ass belongs to the Corp....he should not have been acting a fool in front of the civilian population. Like my CSM use to tell us, "You act a fool in public, I will embarrass you in public"

Response by 1SG Martel Herrera made May 10 at 2017 8:45 AM

1SG Martel Herrera — Wed, 10 May 2017 08:45:18 -0400

Simplely ask the Marine to remove his head gear unless he or she is under arms. There is no reason to blow up the situation unless the the Marine does not comply. If then crush him.

Response by TSgt Frank Shepherd made May 10 at 2017 3:57 PM

TSgt Frank Shepherd — Wed, 10 May 2017 15:57:46 -0400

You don't wear a cover in doors except when armed. The marine is wrong. Being told to take the cover off and being disrespectful to the officer is wrong. The officer is wrong for arguing with the marine. Get name and unit and call company co or SgtMajor

Response by Capt Jack O'Neill made May 10 at 2017 4:31 PM

Capt Jack O'Neill — Wed, 10 May 2017 16:31:36 -0400

If he did not see the officers rank, not a problem for the Sgt Maj. enlisted marine at least ch.11. Maybe nonjudicial punishment under UCMJ disobeying direct order officer ( field grade). Might be less such as disrespect if decided by CG or CO.

Response by A1C John Mullan made May 10 at 2017 4:33 PM

A1C John Mullan — Wed, 10 May 2017 16:33:48 -0400

No cover inside when in uniform. If the Jr. Officer was in uniform this Marine made a big mistake. How ever the Jr. Officer screwed the pooch also by letting it get out of control. The Sgt.Maj. was the only one acting properly. Had a similar situation in the chow hall at midnight chow one night. A Buck Sgt started going off on a server because he would not put seconds on a dirty plate. The server informed the Sgt. he had to get a clean plate. I was working the morning watch with the USAF Security forces. The Sgt. became extremely belligerent and was using some nasty language toward the server. I approached and informed the Sgt. he could have all he wanted but the rules were the rules and I advised him he was becoming disorderly. He decided since he out ranked me he would give me some crap two. At that point I informed him that wearing his BDU shirt with jeans was also a violation and placed him under arrest for disorderly. Turns out he was intoxicated as well. Cost him a stripe

Response by Cpl Ben Gray made May 10 at 2017 4:42 PM

Cpl Ben Gray — Wed, 10 May 2017 16:42:43 -0400

There is a thing caled tact. You don't correct a superior officer regardless of fubared he is in a confrontational way. Pull him off to the side and remind him that he's not armed so the cover needs to be removed.

Response by SGT Theodore Prievo made May 10 at 2017 5:43 PM

SGT Theodore Prievo — Wed, 10 May 2017 17:43:50 -0400

Dof the cover ,instruct the offender to drop and knock out 50 push ups.

Response by Daniel Jackson made May 10 at 2017 5:53 PM

Daniel Jackson — Wed, 10 May 2017 17:53:01 -0400

If I WAS that young Marine I would have just let it ride or made eye contact and quickly pointed at my head or something. But getting all puffed up and in a Sgt Maj face, that's like kickin Sasquach in the nuts, it's just gonna start some shit real damn quick... I myself am not military in any official way but we are all human and all will sooner or later make a mistake so I WILL HAVE MY BROTHER'S BACK IF I CATCH HIS MISTAKE AND HOPE A BROTHER WILL CATCH MINE AND MAY THEY BE FEW AND PROVE ME RESPONSIBLE...

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 11 at 2017 12:57 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 May 2017 00:57:34 -0400

Cover (head gear-hat) not worn inside. END OF DESCISION. It is regulation. You learn that very early in your military life.

Response by Jake Lara made May 11 at 2017 1:44 AM

Jake Lara — Thu, 11 May 2017 01:44:08 -0400

He should have known better than to have his cover on that's 101

Response by SGT Charles F Edney Sr made May 11 at 2017 5:24 AM

SGT Charles F Edney Sr — Thu, 11 May 2017 05:24:19 -0400

They were out of line they needed to take it outside they bouth need Extra Duty!!!!!!

Response by Cpl Kent Glapion made May 11 at 2017 9:28 AM

Cpl Kent Glapion — Thu, 11 May 2017 09:28:38 -0400

When I was in the Corps it would have been a court martial after a serious ass whipping.

Response by PO2 James Young made May 11 at 2017 10:11 AM

PO2 James Young — Thu, 11 May 2017 10:11:35 -0400

yup...pure and simple

Response by MSgt Julio Rodriguez made May 11 at 2017 11:35 AM

MSgt Julio Rodriguez — Thu, 11 May 2017 11:35:09 -0400

All are taught the rules...the marine knew, but he disrespected the rule and an officer...he is not a victim but a perpetrator of failing to perform correctly. Discipline is not just for others but for all...he would draw my ire for disrespecting my whole military!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 11 at 2017 11:56 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 May 2017 11:56:50 -0400

Wrong is wrong regardless of WHO tells you. Even if a private one day in tells a 35 year SGM about his headgear. As long as s/he does it respectfully there should be no problem. However this Marine is a clear display of how NOT to handle that situation. He was corrected and rather than taking the correction, making the adjustment and moving on to have himself a good rest of his day, he got into a pissing contest with a junior officer (it will never end well for you junior enlisted so just don't do it.)

I understand that everyone saying that the junior enlisted should have respected the rank and that any officer is an officer regardless. Informing the Marine was perfectly fine and within his scope but when it began to escalate and the Marine started getting out of hand perhaps that was the point that the officer should have gotten an NCO involved.

Response by PFC Rob Chapman made May 11 at 2017 11:59 AM

PFC Rob Chapman — Thu, 11 May 2017 11:59:21 -0400

extra duty

Response by SPC John Barner made May 11 at 2017 12:04 PM

SPC John Barner — Thu, 11 May 2017 12:04:28 -0400

Sgt major was correct in removing the pvt.

Response by SSG William Wall made May 11 at 2017 2:37 PM

SSG William Wall — Thu, 11 May 2017 14:37:48 -0400

Dear Mrs. Marine's Mom - The United States Marine Corps regretfully informs you your son is now listed as missing in action, last seen as a puddle on the floor of the exchange...

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 11 at 2017 3:14 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 May 2017 15:14:01 -0400

Why are we beating this dead horse. This is ancient news. Move on to something else.

Response by PFC Kevin Evans made May 11 at 2017 5:34 PM

PFC Kevin Evans — Thu, 11 May 2017 17:34:18 -0400

When in uniform you represent the entire unit your actions are reflected back onto them,they young marine did not show proper respect or honor to his unit

Response by SSG T.j. Hayes made May 11 at 2017 5:38 PM

SSG T.j. Hayes — Thu, 11 May 2017 17:38:10 -0400

More than likely a real good ass chewing by the SgtMaj for sure.

Response by Amn Adam Zegilla made May 11 at 2017 6:53 PM

Amn Adam Zegilla — Thu, 11 May 2017 18:53:12 -0400

It sounds the same as when I was in the mess hall, there was an officer, (Major) wearing their cover while in line, I handled it a little differently, I politely asked the officer to remove their cover as they were indoors, the officer then proceeded to explain how I was just an airman and shouldn't be telling officers what to do, I then politely asked if he would like to take the issue up with my CO, he said he would take my information, pulled one of my 341's, I was still in training at the time, and would turn it in to my CO himself, about that time, a LT. Colonel whom had been watching the exchange came over and said to the Major, he needed to remove his cover as he was out of regs, had the 341 turned over to him, he filled it out with a full explanation, and told me that I had handled everything just fine and to turn the 341 in to my CO for and that he was going to recommend a 3 day leave for the way I had handled the situation, needless to say, I didn't get my leave, but I did get a few days off of PT and allowed to go off base as long as I returned by midnight. Personally, I believe the entire confrontation that they are describing could have been handled quite a bit better, however, in the end, the SgtMaj was correct in handling the situation after it had escalated.

Response by TSgt Ed Thompson made May 11 at 2017 7:21 PM

TSgt Ed Thompson — Thu, 11 May 2017 19:21:05 -0400

His ass is grass for a LONG, LONG time!!!!!

Response by PO2 Joe Lindsey made May 11 at 2017 8:05 PM

PO2 Joe Lindsey — Thu, 11 May 2017 20:05:11 -0400

I did something quite similair back in 75. As a young Squid I was on Guam and got caught in the rain and decided to take a shortcut through the Grunt's barracks. I was just about out when a voice that sounded like God commanded me to stop, It was a SgtMaj who asked me, and not very polietly I might add, what the **** was I doing walking through his barracks with my cover on? Hey I was a sailor how shoukld I know what a cover was. Wrong answer. We had a saying back then, he proceeded to chew me out so bad that I had a new asshole.
I made it it a point never to walk through their barracks again and if I had to I knew what a cover was and to take the damn thing off.

Response by SSgt Frank Conley made May 11 at 2017 9:41 PM

SSgt Frank Conley — Thu, 11 May 2017 21:41:49 -0400

That young Marine went through boot camp where I know he was taught to respect any person that outranks him also he was taught NOT to wear a cover indoors unless on duty, he should have known better, when the officer couldn't handle him the SGM was completely correct in taking charge...thye boys mother needed to stay out of it and if she has any complaints she needed to make them at another time and to someone else. The incident had already escalated beyond what it should have and the SGM was gaining control and removing the problem as quick as possible. The officer also needs to learn how to control his subordinates and also learn how to use tack. The private needs to get a little more training and will probably get lucky if he doesn't get charges of disrespect to an officer.

Response by PO1 George White made May 11 at 2017 10:10 PM

PO1 George White — Thu, 11 May 2017 22:10:15 -0400

The thing is written with too much ambiguity for any real judgement to be made. It would take a really foolish young marine to look an officer in the eye and ask him "Who the fuk are you?" I find it so hard to believe.

As for the Jr. Officer "getting in his face", that does not have to mean shouting or even cursing. I got in some junior people's faces over my years, but the words and expression that came out of my mouth were very calm while being very forceful and certain as to what was going to happen next if I was not obeyed.

Now if it escalated from there, the Jr. Officer also stepped into territory that he should have avoided. Counsel the officer, boot the young marine. He'd be better off as a civilian.

Response by SP5 Michael McGraw made May 11 at 2017 10:54 PM

SP5 Michael McGraw — Thu, 11 May 2017 22:54:25 -0400

His behind is GRASS and guess who is the lawn mower

Response by PFC Aaron Blahus made May 11 at 2017 11:26 PM

PFC Aaron Blahus — Thu, 11 May 2017 23:26:34 -0400

He's lucky he didn't get dropped. Regardless of what branch your in cover stays off until you get outside. High five Sergeant Major.

Response by James Bell made May 12 at 2017 1:58 AM

James Bell — Fri, 12 May 2017 01:58:14 -0400

Is there a video or a thread I'm missing about this cover question?

Response by Sgt Larry Cagle made May 12 at 2017 11:43 AM

Sgt Larry Cagle — Fri, 12 May 2017 11:43:21 -0400

The officer in his decison!!!!!

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2017 12:25 PM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 12 May 2017 12:25:25 -0400

Which one did he escort out?

Response by Cpl Chris Gilbert made May 12 at 2017 12:55 PM

Cpl Chris Gilbert — Fri, 12 May 2017 12:55:24 -0400

To answer the question, he probably got some shit detail but not NJP.

Response by Michael Horne made May 12 at 2017 1:27 PM

Michael Horne — Fri, 12 May 2017 13:27:16 -0400

I am not a Marine but in the SC State Guard the soldier who put on his cover inside would be told to remove it unless he is heading out the door in which case we would deem that as proper.

Response by Michael Borsberry made May 12 at 2017 5:37 PM

Michael Borsberry — Fri, 12 May 2017 17:37:17 -0400

send momma home

Response by SSG W Joseph Walker made May 12 at 2017 7:01 PM

SSG W Joseph Walker — Fri, 12 May 2017 19:01:06 -0400

A shit ton.

Response by SFC Raymond Morales made May 12 at 2017 7:28 PM

SFC Raymond Morales — Fri, 12 May 2017 19:28:35 -0400

That young man is in deep, first for wearing a cover indoors, then disrespecting a commissioned officer, and conduct unbecoming of a Marine. Mom just needs to back up.

Response by LCpl Jonathan Castellano made May 12 at 2017 10:34 PM

LCpl Jonathan Castellano — Fri, 12 May 2017 22:34:32 -0400

Many and I mean many days of extra duty...

Response by TSgt Roger Williams made May 12 at 2017 10:51 PM

TSgt Roger Williams — Fri, 12 May 2017 22:51:34 -0400

Oh hell yes!! Sgt Major got a fix in you breaking regulations he will hand your balks to you Mom or no Mom!! You are a Marine & you act like a Marine!! KP for a month after hitting the deck for awhile!!!

Response by SGT Isaac Aurelius made May 12 at 2017 10:54 PM

SGT Isaac Aurelius — Fri, 12 May 2017 22:54:25 -0400

Sounded like he needed a wake up call, and an attitude adjustment. He got both.

Response by Andy Gibson made May 12 at 2017 11:13 PM

Andy Gibson — Fri, 12 May 2017 23:13:23 -0400

Heck he got off easy. I couldn't wear a cover in my own house. I am the proud son of a gunny. The only civilian to bury a sand flea. My father was yelling at me as a child. On a quarter bet. I leaned foward and knocked his beloved cover off his head. And that's all I got to say about that. Good thing it isn't the Marines of old or Mom would have gotten a good barking too

Response by SGT Michael May made May 13 at 2017 12:08 AM

SGT Michael May — Sat, 13 May 2017 00:08:51 -0400

Can you say zhit detail.
Things have change since I've been in, that young marine would've been taken off and had a few slips and falls resulting in a few injuries. No zhit

Response by SSgt Craig Danielson made May 13 at 2017 1:47 AM

SSgt Craig Danielson — Sat, 13 May 2017 01:47:30 -0400

1st) Ask if the individual is aware of the Marine Corps policy an wearing headgear indoors.
2nd) State the facts of the policy.
3rd) If failure to understand persists, unload. An officer should never be demeaned by any SNCO in front of subordinates or in private. If a SNCO hasn't developed the tact it takes to use misgiving moments as opportunities teach, then that SNCO was promoted for all the wrong reasons. A SNCO's primary responsibility is to ensure the success of the officers appoint over him/her. not to breakdown the fabric that binds leadership principles.

Response by MSgt Jack Morrison made May 13 at 2017 8:04 AM

MSgt Jack Morrison — Sat, 13 May 2017 08:04:40 -0400

I can't really believe the young enlisted man would have disrespect when told by an officer to remove his cover. Doesn't sound like the Corps I retired from in 1979. The SgtMaj sounds like the one who was absolutely correct and this young Marine needs to be brought up on article 15 of the UCMJ. Maybe that would give him some insight as to how to respect his superiors.

Response by Sgt James Highhouse made May 13 at 2017 8:14 AM

Sgt James Highhouse — Sat, 13 May 2017 08:14:39 -0400

Hell yeah, that young Marine was totally out of line! Definitely needs a good wake up call!!!

Response by AN Chris Dasrath made May 13 at 2017 9:18 AM

AN Chris Dasrath — Sat, 13 May 2017 09:18:24 -0400

Yea brightwork duty for life. No military bearing

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 13 at 2017 10:24 AM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 May 2017 10:24:17 -0400

The marine knew better and to yell at a nco he deserves what ever happens

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 13 at 2017 10:59 AM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 May 2017 10:59:43 -0400

The explanation offered by a civilian lady below makes more sense. If it's accurate then it explains a bit. She says she read about this on Facebook and responded due to being familiar with the situation. What she said is that the "youth" was not an AD USMC, but part of a group of Young Marines. Her description of this group is that it is one for troubled youth to attempt to instill discipline and maybe bring them into the fold. Not her quote, but my interpretation of her responses. Good news is I salute the group for their effort, bad news is that is wasn't quite working for this lad yet. I can only speculate but given a teen that has issues with authority and the presence of his Mom, if that was the case, we may see the reason for his reaction. The Lt comes on the scene and sees a deficiency. He tries to correct it but maybe not in the best manner. This is to be expected of most junior Officers, because they learn as they go. Had he quietly gotten the youth aside and addressed it calmly with the youth - and outside the influence of his Mom - he might have gotten a different outcome. A good starting point would have been to tactfully ask the lad what his unit was. Once the kid said he's not AD then Lt wishes him well with his future and it's a non-event. Live and learn. He assumed he was AD, corrected him openly and it triggered a response he hadn't planned for, due to the presence of Mom and the way it was presented. Now, add the SgtMaj, who sees a bad situation and jumps in the middle of it. Good for him, but he could have also handled it more discreetly. This is one for leadership discussion groups and training discussion. If the lady's story is accurate we can easily see the many actions that were taken based on assumptions vice facts. The lad was dead wrong and likely now knows this, but was acting on impulse and was already challenged with regard to authority issues. Both the Lt and SgtMaj were well intended, but if they had asked they would have learned they had zero authority over this civilian teen. Lesson here is look before you leap and don't assume anything. Take action based on facts and then with urgency appropriate to the situation, but with a level of tact. Classic example of good initiative, bad judgement.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2017 3:34 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 May 2017 03:34:15 -0400

I went into the PX once with about four of my junior troops. We were there on an exercise, and I don't even remember what post we were at. We walked in, removed our covers, took a few steps and at the checkout line was a full Colonel, in fatigues (this was the old days), with his cover on. My troops were just shaking their heads and saying "Look at that." As a young NCO, I think I was a SSG, I felt like I had to do something.

I walked over to the Colonel and whispered to him quietly and said, "Sir, with all due respect, I have some young troops with me, and I would truly appreciate you helping me set the example for them by removing your cover indoors, if you wouldn't mind." His face turned red, but with embarrassment, not anger, and he said, "Absolutely, Sergeant. I'm embarrassed to have done this in front of them." I said, "Sir, just by removing your cover now, they will see you honoring the tradition and having respect for you and for me for having recognized the issue and having dealt with it respectfully. So thank you." "Absolutely, Sergeant. And Thank You for being so polite about this." Issue resolved. He was polite about it. My troops thought I was awesome for having gotten an O-6 to remove his cover, and everyone was happy!

Response by LCpl Kenneth Iler made May 14 at 2017 12:00 PM

LCpl Kenneth Iler — Sun, 14 May 2017 12:00:27 -0400

A cover can and should be worn indoors as long as the person wearing it is also wearing a utility or cartridge belt

Response by LCpl Nicholas Foster made May 14 at 2017 1:55 PM

LCpl Nicholas Foster — Sun, 14 May 2017 13:55:52 -0400

my response to that is that we have too many wussies nowadays

Response by James E Hudmon Jr. made May 14 at 2017 6:41 PM

James E Hudmon Jr. — Sun, 14 May 2017 18:41:15 -0400

Small reprimand let it go. Sergeant should make appolegy to his CO

Response by Charris Strawn made May 14 at 2017 9:39 PM

Charris Strawn — Sun, 14 May 2017 21:39:18 -0400

No covers inside .Even as a child Marine .He knows that. He may have forgotten ,but he knows the rules.
Repremand indeed .Rules have to be reinforced !

Response by Cpl Zack Deckard made May 15 at 2017 11:59 AM

Cpl Zack Deckard — Mon, 15 May 2017 11:59:28 -0400

The Marine Corps Ways can not be changed by one bitch made person that doesn't want to fallow orders. Is he going to argue back at a Squad leader in the heat of battle? I would make him guard MRE's without any rounds

Response by PFC Mas Yan made May 17 at 2017 9:13 AM

PFC Mas Yan — Wed, 17 May 2017 09:13:02 -0400

That's just dumb of the private.

Response by SPC William Vann made May 17 at 2017 1:18 PM

SPC William Vann — Wed, 17 May 2017 13:18:13 -0400

Great Job Sergeant Major. The Private should have been dropped for 50 and the Officer too for not handling the situation as a US MARINE CORPS OFFICER should have.

Response by LCpl Cody Hendricks made May 19 at 2017 3:01 AM

LCpl Cody Hendricks — Fri, 19 May 2017 03:01:09 -0400

The only thing I can think of is that when it states a young Marine it is actually meaning one of those really young marines like the cadet type that are found on bases like Okinawa or other enlisted spots because I don't know anyone in their right mind that would tell anyone to go f*** off if they came up to them and told them to take their cover off. Also any Marine with tact would have not handed the s*** out of them and told them to get outside followed by what company are you in and it would have been taken care of from that point on in an NJP manner. I think it's bullshit or the story is being fabricated more and more as it's told.

Response by MSgt Jeff Greene made May 19 at 2017 5:22 PM

MSgt Jeff Greene — Fri, 19 May 2017 17:22:07 -0400

The SgtMaj did what all SNCOs should do. He took charge of the situation and removed both of the parties to a more private place to carry on the conversation. No doubt the "youth" marine got more of a dressing down for improper language to a commissioned officer and the officer was reminded that getting into a shouting match in public make him lose respect.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 11 at 2017 5:53 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 11 Jun 2017 17:53:26 -0400

I think the military has changed more in the last years then i ever thought possible.

Response by PO2 Weaver Brian made Jun 16 at 2017 1:07 AM

PO2 Weaver Brian — Fri, 16 Jun 2017 01:07:47 -0400

I don't know, my own mother would have reminded me to take my hat off (even a civilian hat) when I went inside. I was raised better than that, she would have said.

Response by GySgt James Marchinke made Jun 16 at 2017 3:16 PM

GySgt James Marchinke — Fri, 16 Jun 2017 15:16:07 -0400

I would have followed the Marine outside and addressed there away from civilian counterparts. Making a scene in front of civilians makes both parties look bad. Not to say I would be light on the young fellow but a one on one is better to get your point across and respectfully so.

Response by PO2 Dan Shulla made Jun 19 at 2017 2:25 PM

PO2 Dan Shulla — Mon, 19 Jun 2017 14:25:13 -0400

There's a reason that "youth" was in that program. His mother was part of the problem. Getting in his face didn't help the Jr officer though, it probably triggered the kid even more and didn't instill respect.

Response by MSgt Roger Lalik made Jul 16 at 2017 10:08 PM

MSgt Roger Lalik — Sun, 16 Jul 2017 22:08:31 -0400

Ya gotta just love it... lol...

Response by GySgt Mike Swisher made Jul 28 at 2017 4:11 AM

GySgt Mike Swisher — Fri, 28 Jul 2017 04:11:54 -0400

Being "old school" (meaning 45+ years ago) when you entered indoors your cover came off unless you were on duty, meaning . . . a duty belt and on duty, possibly with a sidearm. There are ways of mentoring a junior member with out making the incident a public display, I did that often as a senior SNCO . . . to great effect. It all comes down to your desire to make that learning experience a positive or a negative learning experience for that junior service member.
Not that it should make a difference (service branch wise), but I was a Marine Corps GySgt at retirement, and during my time as an NCO I felt it was imperative that our values and traditions where reinforced in the junior ranks, and virtually all of my Marines understood what I was trying to teach.
Just my take on things gentlemen.

Response by CCMSgt James Helms made Jul 31 at 2017 12:02 AM

CCMSgt James Helms — Mon, 31 Jul 2017 00:02:16 -0400

I did not read where the Lt. confronting the young marine was in uniform or not and if he was not, the "who the --- are you," would make more sense. From the Lt's position and not knowing the actual words used, there are several possibilities that come to mind. For example, during my 33-year career, I witnessed far too many "how not to address a subordinate" confrontations. A classic example is the officer/NCO who asks, "Airman, don't you think you need a haircut?" Which will almost always get the "No sir" reply. The correct way would have been, "Airman, you hair is out of limits of the reg., I suggest you get it cut as soon as soon as possible. I now have your name and unit ID from your uniform and will be calling your first sergeant to see if you have complied with my directions." I realize the Army an Marine officers/NCOs are accustomed to hollering (to do that in the AF, unless there is a fire, etc., is seen as unprofessional). Nonetheless, I do not believe a SM would have conducted himself in this manner -- I'm waving my BS flag on this one.

Response by MSgt Thomas Mason made Sep 4 at 2017 11:37 AM

MSgt Thomas Mason — Mon, 04 Sep 2017 11:37:02 -0400

You never attempt to correct a problem in public where you draw others into the situation! Corrective measures are always taken ONE-ON-ONE. Sounds like a power struggle on the part of all three. The Lt. asked for it by stepping out of line! All of us have a measure of pride, could be he was defensive because Mom was there? After all, he's Mom's hero!!

Response by SPC Stephan Baker made Sep 7 at 2017 3:50 AM

SPC Stephan Baker — Thu, 07 Sep 2017 03:50:31 -0400

over reaction from the go... similar situation at ARCENT saudi during desert storm. We were in command of the gate and thus did a lot of heads up and saluting... one day a general left by vehicle through the gate... my turn on the gate and as usual... I watched to make sure he cleared the lot. upon entering the lot the colonel .. his aid.. showed up.. they both dismounted and headed to the pedestrian gate back toward the building and us. as they approached I called attention with a salute... everyone snapped but one female stood with her hands by her side waiting on her visitor pass. the general walked up to her and looked at her collar even lifting one with his finger.... the whole compound was silent... and me still saluting... she had a ghostly face at this point, not sure what the hell was going on ...his reply? " nice patches miss"... carry on!!!" she was a volunteer medic with the red cross.. and she definitely felt the wrath of god that day.. but, no harm no foul.

Response by COL Mo Fenner made Sep 7 at 2017 2:59 PM

COL Mo Fenner — Thu, 07 Sep 2017 14:59:47 -0400

This is still alive so I will add my two cents. When I was a young 1LT (1984), I had a SP4 mouth off at me in the mess hall with no NCOs around. I locked him up and explained that just because it was a mess hall, SP4s don’t talk back to LTs. I wasn’t loud but I had Soldiers from my platoon there. It would have set a bad precedent if I just blew it off. Of course if one of our NCOs had been there, it would have been bloody. The post CSM called down to the unit the next day and said that he wanted me to report to him and apologize for embarrassing the SP4. I told him, that if he wanted me to report to him, he needed to go through my chain of command. The CSM must have checked the E-4’s story because I never heard anything. I heard later that the E4 was in the process of being kicked out. The bottom line is that there were probably a lot more details in the story. There is a time and place for LTs to stand up to CSMs, but make absolutely sure that you are correct.

Response by PO1 Aaron Baltosser made Sep 7 at 2017 4:35 PM

PO1 Aaron Baltosser — Thu, 07 Sep 2017 16:35:59 -0400

Tactfully, offering the offending individual the opportunity to correct themselves. Hopefully they will see it as a learning opportunity, and not as some meddling soul that had nothing better to do.

Response by SGM Harvey Boone made Sep 10 at 2017 1:57 PM

SGM Harvey Boone — Sun, 10 Sep 2017 13:57:36 -0400

I have a problem with today's people they are so crude they don't even know how to wear a cover they either wear one too large, backward, and "NEVER" take it off even when in church or at the dinning table. I'm from old school I have a little respect when I enter a building Mine comes off. " When I mom was alive and you entered her home she would direct you to a Hat rack and the first think she always asked are you hungary do you want something to eat? You better be sure to go and wash your hands prior to seating yourself at her table as well other wise she would excuse you to go do so.

Response by SPC Stephan Baker made Sep 11 at 2017 7:28 AM

SPC Stephan Baker — Mon, 11 Sep 2017 07:28:01 -0400

not to over stay my welcome... or comments. I also did a part time on "the love boat" during desert storm in Bahrain... basically, baby sitting an bouncing. our commander had made it unnecessary to wear a cover in our so called "area". we had access to the naval port in that theater and went there quite a few times to get supplies (beer). one day , we were called out by a naval noncom about our lack of head attire. we informed him that we weren't required to wear it in our operation. his reply was that regardless on this post we were. no fights... no scuffles... no calling home. the next time we went we wore our cover. simple respect. nothing more or less. keep it simple people... it's not a battle of egos.... it's the same battle and we are all fighting it. never saw a winning team that fought amongst themselves... especially over trivial stuff.

Response by Jessica Kurten made Sep 28 at 2017 11:23 AM

Jessica Kurten — Thu, 28 Sep 2017 11:23:07 -0400

The Young Marines is not a group intended for at-risk or troubled youth. It’s simply a military-oriented youth program sponsored by the Navy and Marine Corps League. One is supposed to be free of a criminal record and in good academic standing prior to “enlisting.” Unfortunately, many parents enroll their disrespectful and misbehaving miscreants to instill “discipline and respect” instead of actually parenting themselves. If one of my boys had’ve done that at the AAFES PX, that cover would be so far up their butt their eyes would turn Multicam. Shameful that the mother would try to protect a child who has the gall to speak that way to anyone.

Response by PO1 Robert Johnson made Oct 9 at 2017 9:38 AM

PO1 Robert Johnson — Mon, 09 Oct 2017 09:38:21 -0400

It would seem that the "Youth Marine" copped an attitude which is probably part of why he was in the program but I am sure that those in that program must have some identifier on their uniform that lets everyone know that they are not full Marines so the shave tail Jr officer should have recognized that and acted accordingly. Every military member knows that confrontations like what is described here should be removed from public scrutiny. That is what the junior officer should have done in the first place. I do not understand though, how a person involved in a civilian/Marine Corp intervention program has Exchange privileges, especially with a civilian mother in tow. That seems what is wrong with this whole scenario.

Response by CWO2 Shelby DuBois made Oct 27 at 2017 10:37 AM

CWO2 Shelby DuBois — Fri, 27 Oct 2017 10:37:09 -0400

I don't doubt anything with regards to disrespect these days. Too many of our young people have grown up to entitled or offended and expect instant gratification. It starts in school when a teacher corrects an action and the parents threaten the teacher and school. It continues with telling kids they don't have to listen to a cop or start a conversation with 'I know my rights'. The parent in this case should have said, 'Listen to the Lt...take off your 'hat'." The Lt probably had steam coming out of his ears. He'd have been doing all of us a great deal of discredit if he'd have just shook his head and ignored it.

Response by Sgt James K Seaton made Nov 17 at 2017 2:48 PM

Sgt James K Seaton — Fri, 17 Nov 2017 14:48:35 -0500

The only correct response from the offending Jr Marine should have been Aye, aye, SIR! But, the Officer could have, should have handled the situation much differently. There is the old Corps storey of COL Puller witnessing an exchange between a Jr Officer and an Enlisted Marine.

The Enlisted Marine failed to salute and offer the greeting of the day as the Jr Officer passed him, the Jr Officer placed the Marine at attention and ordered him to perform 100 Salutes with the proper greeting of the day. And started to walk off, where upon COL Puller stopped the Jr Officer and said, "Very good spot correction Lieutenant, but with every salute that CPL is rendering recognizing your Rank, a proper salute will be returned by you as the Marine corps regulation, Leadership and decorum requires." The action was carried out correctly as COL Puller stayed and reviewed. Of course, the dialogue was certainly different, but the story was told to us by our Senior Drill Instructor.

I'm from an "Older Corps" 77'-83', but not in my wildest, delusioned mindset would I ever think of showing that kind of disrespect to an Officer, Jr or otherwise.

Response by CWO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 20 at 2017 7:31 AM

CWO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Nov 2017 07:31:59 -0500

how long has this been click bait on Facebook?

Response by SPC Franklin McKown made Dec 9 at 2017 7:27 PM

SPC Franklin McKown — Sat, 09 Dec 2017 19:27:28 -0500

Say "LOOSE THE HEADGEAR" briskly with a DOSE of stinkeye.

Response by SSgt Vincent Zegarelli made Dec 27 at 2017 12:55 AM

SSgt Vincent Zegarelli — Wed, 27 Dec 2017 00:55:39 -0500

Pull the young man aside and ask him why he isn’t wearing his cover. His answer will tell you which way to go

Response by SSG Jeffrey Leake made Dec 27 at 2017 4:49 PM

SSG Jeffrey Leake — Wed, 27 Dec 2017 16:49:08 -0500

Covers are not to be worn indoors. But, as a SSG., if I saw someone jacked up or out of uniform, I would quietly pull them aside to address the situation. A shouting match and hands on is a NO-GO. Now that being said, the youth was unprofessional himself by swearing and causing a scene. It should of been handled differently, in my humble opinion.

Response by CPO David Sharp made Dec 28 at 2017 5:46 AM

CPO David Sharp — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 05:46:51 -0500

The SgtMaj did the absolute correct action. Both were out of line to be engaging in that sort of public behavior. The J.O. learned a new lesson, part of the SgtMaj's responsibility, and, the "Youth" Marine found out his behavior will not and can not be tolerated. I can only hope this young person's lesson continued outside and he was addressed in a fashion he will not forget too soon and grow from the experience. The Mother, some folks just don't get it.

Response by Maj Robert Lang made Jan 2 at 2018 6:58 AM

Maj Robert Lang — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 06:58:05 -0500

Gosh, was I just blessed or what? When in uniformed, I always had an enlisted Marine accompany me whenever I walked out the door. That Marine was always available to be a liaison between me and the rest of the world, less other officers. I might see corrections needed, but I was never one to point them out, beyond my liaison.

Response by Sgt Daniel Latch made Jan 5 at 2018 1:25 AM

Sgt Daniel Latch — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 01:25:19 -0500

Handling the situation properly is the question to which I say dress down in private, praise in public and competent leaders never show their ass in broad daylight. As such, given the public environment a fatherly and friendly notice serves far better: e.g. "Hey! Private. No covers in doors." Demonstrate with your own, Give a smiling, encouraging, expectant nod (and maybe notice if he doesn't have on a legitimate uniform). Ask questions, clarify, justify, and ensure the correctness of any attitude or belief you may have before acting on it.

If you go over the top and get all DI on people as a knee jerk reaction you need some down time out to get clear on the bullshit in your own system before you go around trying to wipe anyone else's ass.

Response by Maj Neal Jackman made May 30 at 2019 4:44 PM

Maj Neal Jackman — Thu, 30 May 2019 16:44:49 -0400

Somewhat similar situation at KBay. CG said no camo off base other than directly to or from quarters and it was strictly enforced. I encountered a young PFC off base at a convenience store (0-3 at the time). As soon as he stepped out he knew he was busted. He came to attention and I asked if he understood the CG's policy. He said "yes sir". I explained he put me in a very difficult situation. I took out a notebook, got his name, rank, unit, CO and Plt Sgt info. Told him to go directly back to base and he would hear from his CO. From the look on his face he was "not pleased" but saluted, and left. I'm sure he walked on eggshells for a few days or a week waiting for the hammer to fall. I wonder what ever happened to that notebook?