How should I handle a revolving issue with an E-6 regarding my haircut?

2018-04-06T03:18:13-04:00

So I have always cut my hair the same way which is combed over on the top and faded on the sides and is in regs. Well I had my NCOIC (SSG) tell me that it wasn't in regs. and that he didn't like the way it appeared. I cut it a little shorter on the top and when to my TL (SGT) and she agreed that there is nothing wrong with it. That SSG told me I had to have a meeting with him and the 1SG but the 1SG never came, it was just myself and the SSG again. He told me again how it wasn't within regs. and looks like I'm a rebel. Few days later, (last night) I saw that SSG and before I could even say hello her said, "Take your hat off, let me see your hair." I showed him and he said, "You better fix it by tomorrow or else you know what'll happen." (He wants my to get a basic training cut) Now today, my TL (SGT) just came into my office and said that I have to go see that SSG at 1500 and that he refused to tell her what it was about. I know it'll be about my hair again. My SGT told me to tell him that I understand that it's his opinion that he doesn't like it but I would like to get a second look by the 1SG before I shave my head. Can any Senior Leaders help me on this one? I'm not just some Joe trying to start problems. I'm squared away, show up to work on time, have no negative counselings, and to top it off...The 1SG saw my hair the same way when I first met him and he said, "Look at Pavlock, his hair is always on point!" Someone please give me some advice!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2018 5:23 AM

2018-04-06T05:23:49-04:00

To easy, I would ask for an open door policy meeting with your 1SG. Ask your 1SG if your hair is with in regulation. If Top says fix it, then fix it. However, if Top says it’s good to go, then you will be in the clear.

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Apr 6 at 2018 5:33 AM

2018-04-06T05:33:10-04:00

Having been through something similar I can offer the advice I received and gave to others, below is an excerpt from AR 670-1: (2) Male haircuts. The hair on top of the head must be neatly groomed. The length and bulk of the hair may not be excessive and must present a neat and conservative appearance. The hair must present a tapered appearance. A tapered appearance is one where the outline of the Soldier’s hair conforms to the shape of the head (see scalp line in fig 3–1), curving inward to the natural termination point at the base of the neck. When the hair is combed, it will not fall over the ears or eyebrows, or touch the collar, except for the closely cut hair at the back of the neck. The block-cut fullness in the back is permitted to a moderate degree, as long as the tapered look is maintained. Males are not authorized to wear braids, cornrows, twists, dreadlocks, or locks while in uniform or in civilian clothes on duty. Haircuts with a single, unta-pered patch of hair on the top of the head (not consistent with natural hair loss) are considered eccentric and are not au-thorized. Examples include, but are not limited to, when the head is shaved around a strip of hair down the center of the head (mohawk), around a u-shaped hair area (horseshoe), or around a patch of hair on the front top of the head (tear drop). Hair that is completely shaved or trimmed closely to the scalp is authorized.

Tapered is the key here, tapered doesn't seem like your hair style since you said you can comb it over. Haircuts are in many cases interpretive when it comes to the regs, you have to ask yourself is a bit of hair worth the hassle of bringing bad attention down on yourself, A wise old MSG once tole be that I should always "Choose my Battles wisely, for not all battles are wise to choose". You have to ask yourself in the end even if you are in the right about this what do you gain by doing this so early in your career? I had my hair fairly long for an Airborne unit in which High and Tight was the SOP, I asked myself was a little bit of hair worth the attention and decided no it wasn't and cut my hair. Good luck and think before you choose what you want to do.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2018 5:47 AM

2018-04-06T05:47:19-04:00

Talk to the 1SG. He makes the final determination on your hair cut. The reason he 1SG didn’t show up to the first meeting was cause he had better things to do than some SSGs job. So if your right and the 1SG tells the SSG your hair is ok then be ready to be on the SSGs butt hurt list. Me personally, I would get ready for it cause fighting about buying unit shirt is different messing with my hair- what little I have left. Good luck.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2018 7:38 AM

2018-04-06T07:38:13-04:00

It is AR 670-1, not AR 670-SSG.
However, any Sr NCO worth a damn will be able to tell you at a glance if you are in compliance or not. Go see your First Sergeant, tell him the skinny, and get it from him/her whether in their judgment you are within standards. If the 1SG says cut it, then do so.

I will say this - if your haircut is such that different folks (not just this guy) say something about it, you are too close to the edge. Scale back a bit.

Response by SSG Dale London made Apr 6 at 2018 8:03 AM

2018-04-06T08:03:42-04:00

1SG Dennis Hicks was spot on with his summing up. You need to assess this whole situation from the stance of: "just how much crap do I want to rain down on me?"
Everybody seems to be telling you to run to the 1SG but, the truth be told, if your 1SG has any faith at all in your NCOIC, he's going to back him and tell you to get a haircut. This may be for no other reason than that he will want to reinforce your NCOIC's discipline.
Your haircut is probably not what's getting on your NCOIC's nerves. It will be his perception that he's given you an order and you are not obeying. Your NCOIC is responsible for ensuring your compliance with uniform regs - if, in his judgement, you are not in compliance he is acting within his remit to pressure you until you are in compliance. As for whether or not your opinion (or that of your TL) jibes with his -- guess what: he decides. Running this to your 1SG smacks of pettiness or -- much worse -- insubordination.
You need to decide how important your comb-over is to you. The higher you escalate this situation (over a haircut!?!?) the smellier it will become and the longer it will take for you to get on good terms with your boss. As a final thought - keep pushing and you can be sure of one thing: you will catch every shit detail going... guaranteed.

Response by MSG Al S made Apr 6 at 2018 8:37 AM

2018-04-06T08:37:50-04:00

1SG, open door policy.... that simple..... I used to get pissed over dealing with simple shtuff... but then I realized how much time was wasted on small battles like this down on the line and realized that I was often the final answer to end all disputes..... you say youve never had a negative counseling, the Staff Sergeant should have your "private meeting" documented on 4856.... and where is your Platoon Sergeant in all of this? Or is your Section Sergeant the same?..... if you think its an issue, than its worth your 1SG's time

Response by 1SG John Highfill made Apr 6 at 2018 8:44 AM

2018-04-06T08:44:17-04:00

Is a little bit of hair worth the battle

Response by SPC David Willis made Apr 6 at 2018 9:04 AM

2018-04-06T09:04:46-04:00

Hair is the topic of so many issues in the military. The fact is many, many hair styles are within regs but can be argued successfully that they are out of regs because words like neat and tidy appearance are subjective. This case sounds like the SSG is getting his ass chapped, but even if your 1SGT give you the green light this time, the next 1SGT could tell you to shave it off just as easily.

Response by MSG Les Amaya made Apr 6 at 2018 9:08 AM

2018-04-06T09:08:24-04:00

You have to adapt n overcome.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2018 9:18 AM

2018-04-06T09:18:55-04:00

I'd suggest choose your battles wisely.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2018 9:19 AM

2018-04-06T09:19:33-04:00

Here is my question, if you fall under this TL(SGT) then why is the SSG coming directly to you, they should be going to the TL and handling it that way. That is why we have a chain of command. Plus the TL should be with you when you see the NCOIC if they are in agreement with you and ask who, what, when, where and how.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2018 9:22 AM

2018-04-06T09:22:29-04:00

As someone once smarter than me said, do what your rank can handle. Is it a direct order? Yes. Is it unlawful, immoral? No. Get your haircut.

I have a PFC, who's hair is so nice, that we call him hair. Our BDE CSM hated his hair, our BN CSM thought it was fine. The Soldier got his haircut. It's not worth the hassle.

You seem like you want to prove a point. Well so does the SSG. He is not bullying you. He sees a perceived violation if the regulation. It's his interpretation, and the regulation is vague in this regard, it is open to interpretation.

Next, this SSG had command authority over you. So if your interpretation is different, he is just adding to the regulation. Maybe ask for it to be in a section SOP so that it better does out what he expects so that you don't falter.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Apr 6 at 2018 10:12 AM

2018-04-06T10:12:18-04:00

OK, 1st and foremost- the SSG can't move forward with much of anything without taking it higher. Have you seen your 1SG, or PL and asked them about your haircut? If so, and they approve, then politely tell your SSG, that the haircut has been approved by higher. If he wants to protest- offer to go immediately to the 1Sg/PL, or commander with him on the Open Door Policy to get judgement. Do not antagonize her or show any lack of respect- you will lose the high ground.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2018 10:14 AM

2018-04-06T10:14:42-04:00

Post a photo.

Response by LT Brad McInnis made Apr 6 at 2018 10:20 AM

2018-04-06T10:20:10-04:00

Just cut your hair! Seriously, do you want to piss off your leaders (even if you may be right), when the simple solution is to cut your hair? They gave you an order, and you are not following, but would rather go up the chain of command... How do you think your command perceives you (rightly or wrongly)! A haircut is not the Rubicon... there are more important things... besides, the sh@t is going to fall out or turn gray eventually anyway!

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Apr 6 at 2018 10:28 AM

2018-04-06T10:28:00-04:00

This sounds like the kind of catch-22 which anyone of just about any rank could find themselves in, when someone of higher rank, for known or unknown good or bad reasons seem to take a dislike of you and make life miserable. Being at the bottom of the food chain it doesn't appear like too many in your COC are willing to fall on their swords for you over this. Probably nothing you do or don't do will get the SSgt off your back around there. I would certainly try and avoid him at all costs if I could. Pls get back to RP & let us know how you fared on this situation and hopefully get it resolved so you can move past the perp.

Response by SSG Kasius McCall made Apr 6 at 2018 10:38 AM

2018-04-06T10:38:02-04:00

Open door policy is there for a reason bud. Toxic leaders are a real thing in the military and sometimes can’t be avoided. Do not cut your hair. Go talk to 1SG. Or if need be higher than that. 670-1 does not state that your hair has to be a certain length on top, therefore, I would seek guidance from higher on this poor excuse for a leader you have.

Response by SSgt Robert Rowland made Apr 6 at 2018 10:54 AM

2018-04-06T10:54:26-04:00

Shave your head and decline re-enlistment.

Response by Maj John Bell made Apr 6 at 2018 11:14 AM

2018-04-06T11:14:26-04:00

I don't know about Army policy, but the Marine Corps haircut regs also had a stipulation about "extreme" haircuts. Extreme was determined by the CO. I don't know if your hair is extreme or not.

When I was a rifle platoon leader, all the 2ndLt's and most of the 1stLt's had skin tights. Immediately after the Battalion Change of Command Ceremony, the new CO had an Officer's call. When that was over, he dismissed the Captains and Majors. When he was sure they were out of earshot, he said one thing. "Gentlemen, the next time I see you, you better have hair on your heads. Dismissed."

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Apr 6 at 2018 12:01 PM

2018-04-06T12:01:00-04:00

So what the heck is up with your TL. " my TL (SGT) and she agreed that there is nothing wrong with it." In my day if my folks were squared away and someone wanted to screw with them It became my business as the SGT.
What's the PSGs' opinion? If your truly squared away make an appointment with the 1SG, let the SSG know you are doing it and get the final word from Top..

Response by SGT Matthew Sesar made Apr 6 at 2018 1:07 PM

2018-04-06T13:07:20-04:00

Is a haircut really what your worried about? I had a platoon sgt that used to make us shave our heads balled before deploying for good luck. My advice unlike anybody else’s on here is suck it up and shave your head bald. Thanks for your service by the way. Hahaha

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2018 1:29 PM

2018-04-06T13:29:27-04:00

Can you post a picture of the hair cut?

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2018 1:34 PM

2018-04-06T13:34:11-04:00

I would use my chain of command and open door policy. I had a similar issue with a NCO(e-5). We took it to the NCOIC and left the final decision in his hands. I was clearly in regs by the way.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2018 2:04 PM

2018-04-06T14:04:31-04:00

I think your Team Leader is failing you. If he thinks your hair is within Regs then he should fight for you. I took ass chewing for my Soldier from my 1SG at Bragg because I did not agree with my Platoon SGT'S treatment of my Soldier. 1SG was backing his Platoon SGT but he eventually agreed with me. I will suggest you cut your hair low to avoid staying on your NCOIC's radar. I cut my hair low every 2 weeks. it grows fast so and I like to brush it so I cut it when I can no longer brush it(mostly 2 weeks). There are more serious things worth fighting for than hair which can grow back unless you have baldness in your family.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2018 4:18 PM

2018-04-06T16:18:32-04:00

Solution:
Get
A
Haircut

....you're welcome

Response by SSG Joseph Callan made Apr 6 at 2018 6:27 PM

2018-04-06T18:27:27-04:00

Where's your platoon sergeant on this?

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Apr 6 at 2018 7:23 PM

2018-04-06T19:23:23-04:00

Don't leave us in suspense - How did it go?

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Apr 6 at 2018 8:56 PM

2018-04-06T20:56:59-04:00

Ask him specifically what is not in regulation as he shows it to you. If he can't do that let him issue the tissue and take it to the 1sg, and or the CSM.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2018 5:24 AM

2018-04-07T05:24:22-04:00

For everyone that has asked for an update:
I received a negative counseling from that particular NCO and the reason stated was that I was not IAW AR 670-1. I simply signed the disagree box and continued the day. My first line leader, the E-5 I mentioned emailed the NCO that I would like to privately speak with the 1SG. About 15-20 minutes later I was sitting in my 1SGs office. We talked for a long time but here was the basis of the conversation. He told me multiple times during the meeting that I was NOT WRONG. He said that because our regs. are so vague NCOs will interpret them the way they want to. Among the great knowledge, words, and experiences he shared with me, he left me with this: There is always going to be someone telling you that you are wrong even when you are 100% right, however, sometimes you have to play their games to win. He said, "This whole conversation I have not given you the right answer. That's because there isn't one. But I will tell you this, you could either tell SSG that you will continue to grow your hair out until the 1st of May and at that time you both can go to the barber shop and he can watch you get a haircut. Or, you can be extreme and shave your head and say 'here ya go SSG, problem solved." That SSG is now not talking to me and I have not heard anything since.

TO RESPOND TO THE NEGATIVE COMMENTS:
This was not about a haircut. I don't care if my head is "stylish" or buzzed. Let me tell you what this was about. I have been falsely "corrected" by this same SSG on an occasion where I saluted the flag during Retreat while in civilian clothing. As soon and it stopped, I was yelled this question, "SINCE WHEN DO WE SALUTE THE FLAG IN CIVI'S!?" (for those of you that don't know the answer is since 2009). (feel free to ask me for the source). As you may or may not see, this issue is about respect, knowledge, and professionalism. As SM we need to have these three characteristics at the top of our tool belt. Regardless of rank or position, we need to all be able to respect each other (even if you have different opinions) and be professional with one another. If you don't know a regulation, chances are a junior enlisted fresh out of HR School does. So if you are going to correct someone, I feel like you need to have the KNOWLEDGE to do so rather than just having the authority to. Remember, "Knowledge is power." So before you look at me as some PFC that doesn't know what he's talking about, or some dirtbag who just doesn't want to accept correction, or tell me to, "get my head out of my ass" all I ask is that you have the facts/knowledge to supplement your corrections.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2018 5:34 AM

2018-04-07T05:34:06-04:00

HEY GUYS, I POSTED A BETTER VERSION OF THIS WHOLE SITUATION WITH AN UPDATE ON HOW IT WENT, PLEASE GO READ IT!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2018 11:03 AM

2018-04-07T11:03:52-04:00

To add on to everyone else, whom I fully agree with on the open door policy, your squad leader is a SSG, not an E-6.

Response by 1LT William Clardy made Apr 7 at 2018 11:53 AM

2018-04-07T11:53:25-04:00

PFC Private RallyPoint Member, could you add a picture showing your haircut, so that folks offering opinions could assess more objectively how reasonable or unreasonable your NCOIC is being? "Combed over on top" can describe a multitude of configurations, but a picture will speak more clearly.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2018 7:14 PM

2018-04-07T19:14:49-04:00

How did it turn out?

Response by SGT Aric Lier made Apr 8 at 2018 10:17 AM

2018-04-08T10:17:08-04:00

goto your 1sgt and ask him dont cry whine or bitch, tell him straight uo "Top i was told my haircut isn't in regs ( carry the reg with you) what is your professional opinion? as I want to succeed in the military and appreciate your advice

Response by SP5 Peter Keane made Apr 8 at 2018 12:14 PM

2018-04-08T12:14:50-04:00

Cut your hair. We used to have posters in all work places and living areas with pictures. They said this is the way you look the day before a haircut, not the day after.

Response by SPC Rob Lewis made Apr 9 at 2018 9:35 AM

2018-04-09T09:35:29-04:00

My advice is to just let it go and cut your hair.
1. It’s just hair, you are in the army
2. You’re a private vs. a SSG ( you will lose)
3. You don’t want to get labeled as a blue falcon or problem child.
I had a similar issue back in the 80’s when I was active. Had an E-6 (that would probably never get promoted beyond E-6), who would make up regs. On the fly. All of us just had to shut up and deal with it until we/or he rotated back stateside. Just kept my hair high and tight until I PCS’ed back stateside.

Response by Cpl Matt Pursell made Apr 12 at 2018 2:36 PM

2018-04-12T14:36:59-04:00

Here's the thing...You are a PFC...He is a SSgt. Cut your damn hair, it doesn't matter if you think you're right, a SNCO told you to cut your hair. End of discussion.

Response by LCpl Terry Robertson made Apr 13 at 2018 9:42 AM

2018-04-13T09:42:59-04:00

It it is within regs.....well he can eat a dick. If the 1SG says it's in regs then it's in reg. The fool is just harrassing you and trying to intimidate you. Both of which he can get his ass in trouble over.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2018 12:11 AM

2018-04-15T00:11:59-04:00

Hair usaully grows back. Choose your battles, an enemy today could be an alli tomorrow. You are a PFC... when you are a SSG this SSG may be a 1SG or SGM..fate tells all

Response by PO3 John Faria made Apr 16 at 2018 11:07 AM

2018-04-16T11:07:14-04:00

I when in the Navy had my hair cut at the barber shop in the Base or the ship I was on. So that never was an issue with me. From reading your post, apparently an issue came up and there is your point of view, and those others involved.Ounce this starts happening both sides begin a campaign of wills VS regulations. I don't tell you what to do, but get a hair cut that satisfies those others, after you get out them nobody will give the regulations bit. It is up to you to keep up your difference with those individuals or follow their instructions. It will affect your evaluations too. It is what I call a pissing game. Good Luck.

Response by SFC James Pritchert made Apr 16 at 2018 11:22 AM

2018-04-16T11:22:22-04:00

Your hair is fine but you are not going to win on this one. Your SSG does not like you and until one of you rotates out of the unit, things are not going to change. When your hair becomes closest to your SSG's standards, they will choose another issue. I have seen this a million times.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2018 5:51 PM

2018-04-16T17:51:02-04:00

PFC Michael Pavlock after reading your original and updated post I came into a conclusion that you are doing the right thing and have been respectful at all times. I noticed that you had a meeting with your acting Platoon sergeant one-on-one which I believe is wrong as a whole. You need to always be with your TL,SL or a with a battle talking to your TL,SL.

Response by Capt Michael Brown made Apr 17 at 2018 11:38 AM

2018-04-17T11:38:22-04:00

Cut your hair PFC Pavlock. There is probably more to this story which your SSG would probably fill us in on. If there isn't more to the story you will have shorter hair.

Response by CSM Patrick Durr made Apr 26 at 2018 2:36 AM

2018-04-26T02:36:01-04:00

Get a haircut that doesn't skirt the regs so there won't be a revolving issue with that Staff Sergeant (not E6, that's a pay grade). Sometimes haircuts are in the eye of the inspector. If it looks faddish to your squad leader, that's his assessment. To get out from under this issue, I highly doubt he's asking you to get a basic training haircut. His standard lies somewhere in between. By the way...a SSG doesn't refuse to tell a SGT anything. He/she simply chooses not to. Remember rank structure.

Response by SrA Joseph Saul Steward made Apr 26 at 2018 9:25 AM

2018-04-26T09:25:32-04:00

Hey guys just checking in. Have a blessed day.

Response by SSG Brian Carpenter made Apr 30 at 2018 7:01 AM

2018-04-30T07:01:09-04:00

Use the open door policy and go see the 1SG with your SGT so as not to appear jumping the COC

Response by MSgt Roger Lalik made Apr 30 at 2018 12:47 PM

2018-04-30T12:47:31-04:00

Taking you at your word.

He's harassing you. When you see him. Tell him you will file a complaint against him for harassment if he doesn't lay off.

Request to see someone in the chain of command that can and will handle this guy.

Response by Cpl Derrick Perkins made May 7 at 2018 1:57 AM

2018-05-07T01:57:02-04:00

go to 1rst sgt, 'just a quick question 1rst sgt,? is my har , still on point '?? :) then after the affirmative , explain you run ins with the ssg. one of you will get squared away ricky tick !! lol

Response by 1SG Dale Cantrell made May 7 at 2018 4:27 PM

2018-05-07T16:27:22-04:00

Argue if you must, but listen to your next line US ARMY supervisor

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 11 at 2018 7:48 AM

2018-05-11T07:48:38-04:00

1SG Hicks, I have to disagree with you on your interpretation. "Tapered" is specifically defined in the portion you cited. It does not mean tapered by buzzing it down with clippers specifically. "A tapered appearance is one where the outline of the soldier's hair conforms to the shape of the head." If the silhouette looks jagged, it isn't tapered. It has literally nothing to do with whether or not the hair is combable. You have to read all of what is written, not just the parts you think you can use to restrict.

But, I do agree with "pick your battles."

Response by SFC Jim Chrisner made May 11 at 2018 10:16 PM

2018-05-11T22:16:47-04:00

Sounds like your SSG is on a power trip or just doesn't like you. Either get your 1SG to clear it and stand by for some shit details or give the jackass what he wants. This is life, not always fair but a good lesson in learning how to handle people. Just FYI, go the extra mile, sounds like it shouldn't be hard for you. Make rank, volunteer for stuff and soon he'll be off your back or you'll out rank him.

Response by SSG Eagle Tovar made May 12 at 2018 4:20 AM

2018-05-12T04:20:10-04:00

PFC Pavlock, you need to decide something right now. What is more important to you--looking "cool" or soldiering?

I must be direct. You are a soldier, and your primary mission is to support and defend the Constitution of the United States--and when necessary, to close with and destroy the enemy by means of fire, maneuver and shock effect.

You are there to be the backbone of the United States of America. You are NOT there to be a male model.

I will tell you this: Skipping your chain of command is a sure way to misery. Your NCO's have the mission to ensure that YOUR part in the mission is accomplished. You do NOT work in a civilian organization, you do NOT have a collective bargaining agreement, and your job does not end at Retreat. You need to "Soldier Up!" and get focused.

If you devote as much time to accomplishing your mission, becoming tactically and technically proficient, keeping communication open between you and your NCO's, and MASTERING every facet of your job as you do your HAIR, you, young PFC, will be an awesome Soldier.

Now quit whining about your 'do and go get a haircut. It will have an opportunity to grow back. And if this is too much for you and you find it unbearable, then complete your enlistment with distinction and leave the military. But be well advised--the attitude you are showing now will NOT go well with a civilian employer.

Response by Maj John Bell made May 16 at 2018 3:13 AM

2018-05-16T03:13:08-04:00

Have someone photograph your haircut from all sides. Comply with what the SSG told you to do. Then request a meeting with the SSG and 1SG. Bring the photographs and ask the SSG to explain to you and the 1SG what is wrong with the haircut in the photos. I don't profess to understand modern vernacular, but in the Marines, tapered hair was fine, "faded" hair was gonna see your butt in a barber chair or my PltSgt's Barber chair before the end of the day. "Faded" was a highly stylized form of tapering. Highly stylized equals eccentric. Eccentric means out of reg regardless of length. and unfortunately for you eccentric is in the eye of the beholder.

In my firstrifle battalion, all of the infantry 2ndLts had shaved heads. Must be in reg. Right? After the change in command ceremony the new Battalion CO dismissed all the officers except the 2ndLts. He told us that our haircuts were eccentric and that the next time he saw us, didn't matter if it was 5 minutes or 5 days from now, we better have some hair. For about three weeks, the 2ndLts were some masters of Ninja like cover and concealment around the command post.

Get a haircut is in general, a legal order. So you ARE a trouble maker, unless... you do not understand why your current haircut is out of spec. In which case, since it isn't a life or death matter, it is the SSG's responsibility to give you an explanation you can understand, before expecting full compliance.

That said.... It is hair... If it IS currently regulation, how long will it take to grow back from what your SSG expects. Don't give up the fight if you are right, but a frontal assault generally results in more casualties than an attack against an exposed flank. Your position is a lot stronger from immediate intelligent obedience than from, "SSG is wrong and I'm not gonna do what he tells me until someone higher says so."

Response by TSgt David Desmarais made May 16 at 2018 9:22 AM

2018-05-16T09:22:14-04:00

Are there any other actions/behavior on your part that could be causing them to pick you apart? Are you a team player, do you go above and beyond, do you take initiative? You more than likely have an open door policy to senior leadership, however, before you go there make sure all other facets of your conduct and behavior is on point. NCO's will likely resent the fact that you challenged their call, but if your are certain you are within regs than you can challenge. Battle on!

Response by CPO David Ransom made May 20 at 2018 11:32 PM

2018-05-20T23:32:12-04:00

Onboard ship we would go to the Barbershop on the ship. NOBODY is supposed to walk out of that barbershop without a haircut that meets regulations. The same should apply to all service members at the PX barber shop.

Response by MSgt J D McKee made May 21 at 2018 3:20 AM

2018-05-21T03:20:46-04:00

I agree with what MSG Anthony Quintero said below.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2018 2:28 PM

2018-05-21T14:28:28-04:00

I would print off the page in 670-1 that shows proper and improper hair cuts and ask the SSG which paragraphs you are violating. If he comes back with the old throw down of "fadish", go see your 1SG immediately with the SSG in tow.

BDE CSM

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2018 12:28 AM

2018-05-22T00:28:09-04:00

Based on what you have stated n if all is fact, then I would venture to say that your SSG has a “Bone to Pick with you” thus it is a personal issue. So in order to clarify the issue I would request an auidience with your SSG’s Supv, or 1SG depending on your NCO Chain Of Command. If the Sr up says your a Go then your a Go n your SSG needs a “Coming to God” Mtg with his 1st Line Supv, 1SG n or poss your SGM/CSM. Because ur SSG has a dire personal problem n you are not the one to fix it..

Response by 2LT Ronald Reimer made May 24 at 2018 6:07 PM

2018-05-24T18:07:39-04:00

I’m curious, what kind of hairstyle does your E-6 NCOIC have? AR 670-1. “These are intended to represent the MINIMUM standard. The standard can be raised upon, but cannot be lowered.” That was what I was always told, anyway. It’s easier to comply with his “lawful order” than to argue and be right. Even if you are right, he has the ability to make your life a living hell. Go “High and Tight”. Embrace it! Live it, Love it, act like it’s the greatest thing you’ve ever done. He’ll get bored and move on to someone else. Challenge him, and you’ll be his target for the rest of your time together.

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made May 24 at 2018 7:56 PM

2018-05-24T19:56:33-04:00

A basic training haircut? I understand your whole issue and question is based on "principle," but wow! You are aware that your hair will grow back. If you don't plan on making the military a career, I would say just hold on until your enlistment is over. After that, grow is down to your knees and sport a "duck-dynasty" beard along with it. But be advised that the "white-color-world" and some "blue-color" positions have dress codes too. I would love to have your "problem." BTW, I've been out of the military for eight years now, and still wear my hair basic training style...it's easier to keep the grey from showing and to maintain.

Response by SPC Joe Allen made May 27 at 2018 11:43 AM

2018-05-27T11:43:31-04:00

Well let me tell you this. Depending on how cowboy you are, and how honest this E6 is there will be one final recourse for you. It doesn’t require IG, and will pretty well protect you against retaliation assuming your COC isn’t corrupt past 1SG. If you’re as squared away as you say this will test the heck out of it. I did this for my PT socks. Your hail maker of a defense rests in the Manual for courts martial; article 138. This worked for me since a had a shit load of PT socks from basic and full calf length socks is what they required. Flamboyant as hell if you ask me, but I was determined to burn through that 20 some pack of socks. I only had one 1SG knock on me to require a 138 memorandum written up about it. Why does this work so well? Much like being found guilty of any other crime it destroys your career. Why does this protect you? Because the nature of a 138 is per se a notice to void harassment. The Army doesn’t give a fuck about your SSG as much as it doesn’t care about you on a grand scale. What it cares about are well functioning soldiers And abuse free leaders. For me every time I got pulled aside for my stupid socks at the end of the recourse I got more respect from top than before the sock shinanigans. I actually got a few SFC’s to join in and one I know of that still wears full calf length socks.

Now that I think about. Poor soldiers probably had to buy socks to match his haha.

Response by SSG Mark D. made May 30 at 2018 11:03 AM

2018-05-30T11:03:45-04:00

AS a yound spldier in the 80's the Army Standard (long cut) hair cut was just a little too short for me. So I always road the edge of the line and had a few weekly hair cuts. Even with that I was near always told to get a hair cut. I soon learned that if I got a (medium cut) w/ Block taper back it would be a hair cut that was managable with a cut every tweo weeks and no complaints from the Chain of Command. Try to exceed the minimual but shaving you head is gone too far for me.
As for your NCO's - your Chain of Command is a road that goes both ways. If your TL is your immediant supervisor Who is this SSG(?) PLT SSG? Then the PLT SSG needs to have the TL manage you. And in this I would ask that my TL, PLT SSG, & 1SG meet with me (after I got a hair cut) and asked for an inspection. Let them all agree on the cut or not. If not ask for an adequate advisable cut limit and get it done. However you have to ALWAYS maintain that cut, even if you have to get it cut weekly. (BTW - DO NOT use a barrecks barber!!!)

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made May 30 at 2018 11:50 AM

2018-05-30T11:50:18-04:00

You cut your own hair? Well it may well be your 1stSgt sees something you can't. But I'm not siding with him/her. It does sound like your 1stSgt has a thing for you. I had a 1stSgt that was like with me, but not about my hair. You've got to see both your company first sgt and company commander, for their decisions about your hair cut.

Response by PO2 Rob Rundquist made Jun 1 at 2018 3:30 PM

2018-06-01T15:30:25-04:00

Cut yer hair ya hippie! :-)

Response by SSgt Ronald Orso made Jun 2 at 2018 11:25 AM

2018-06-02T11:25:42-04:00

Choose your battles, this isn't one of them.

Response by SP5 Thomas Jameson made Jun 7 at 2018 10:24 AM

2018-06-07T10:24:33-04:00

I’d been ETS’ed into inactive reserves, but remained in the Flying Club at the local base (FGGM). Was coming back into the Flight Hut after a cross-country, and ran into a bird colonel coming out. He took one look at me, and went into rabid rant mode (in all fairness, this was the 70’s, I had been out almost two years without ever cutting my hair, and my hair by this time WAS over my collar by well over three inches. He took one look, went into a frenzy, and barked “YOU! GET A HAIRCUT!!” I smiled and said, “Thank you SIR, but I don’t think so.” We had “further discussions”, and he went further ballistic when he found out I was in INactive reserves, and not subject to his mindset of haircut regulations. There’s now apparently a rule in my honor that to be in the flying club, you have to be Active Reserves!

Response by SP5 Thomas Jameson made Jun 7 at 2018 10:31 AM

2018-06-07T10:31:15-04:00

Having told my story, I have just one more comment. Get a haircut!

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2018 12:29 PM

2018-06-09T12:29:57-04:00

Ironically, most replies have been defensive in this post, yet this young NCO exposes an important topic that is critical to organizational development. Somewhere along the path, he has not gained the respect of this (likely marginal) NCO. He has forfeited his ability to pursuade compliance within a group. This will be a tough lesson, yet no one can alter, convince or thus pursuade a change of perception except YOU. Part of working with teams is being able to be a leader, so if you’re ranting about this one NCO, what will you do when you have a platoon of your own that brings you challenges? My advice: Become his supervisor one day and don’t allow this small tid bit to impact your path to success. Cut your hair for a while and keep exceding Army standards. It shows character and 1SG will respect you more because you validated commitment toward achievement!

Response by COL Bob Moore made Jun 11 at 2018 7:12 PM

2018-06-11T19:12:33-04:00

Post a picture?

Response by Sgt George Kovach made Jun 14 at 2018 5:44 AM

2018-06-14T05:44:41-04:00

Well as i see it the Corps has a 0-3 regulation and or anything in between. Not sure there was ever enough length for a comb over. Heres the point if its touching your ears and your a dude its a no, girl yeah sure. But since an E6 carries more weight you suould consider looking at a style that puts you in regs yet still looks squared away. The military is not a fashion oriented engine. Its about simplicity of purpose. You should be able to grab your go bag and board a plane without havingbto worry about getting a cut in a weeknor so. 2 cents.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2018 6:45 AM

2018-06-14T06:45:36-04:00

Please allow me to give you a bit different advice, get a basic training haircut.
Here is why, the problem is not you, the issue is not the AR, the problem is that the SSG is a jerk.
A number of years ago I had an issue with my COL, he enjoyed on occasions making comments about my hair. I shaved it off: every time somebody asked me why, I told them "make the COL happy."
In the military everybody moves, sooner or later your SSG or you will PCS.

Response by Cpl Robert Kost made Jun 15 at 2018 9:59 AM

2018-06-15T09:59:47-04:00

Then fix your issue! Marines have a higher standard than the Army does. Thus, cut it the way they want. So as you're told or suffer the consequences. You really came on here to complain and ask for "advice"? My advice: Do what your told!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2018 10:31 PM

2018-06-16T22:31:20-04:00

Just cut your hair!, it will grow back

Response by Jerry Rivas made Jun 17 at 2018 8:30 PM

2018-06-17T20:30:46-04:00

Just make damn sure your hair is within regs and go see the first shirt.

Response by TSgt J.L. Brown Jr made Jun 20 at 2018 6:37 AM

2018-06-20T06:37:56-04:00

In 23 years I never had to be told to get a haircut, it's pretty simple, some like to be stylish, if they wanted to be stylish they should have joined a different force.

Response by CPO Dave Royce made Jun 24 at 2018 10:14 PM

2018-06-24T22:14:06-04:00

Ok, I don’t know what haircut regs are in the Army, But it’s not hard to find out if your hair cut is within Regs, the Barber shop has the regs
In there shop, I was in the Marines for 8 years before the Navy , no one ever had to tell me what a regulation haircut looked like.
And I sure as heck wouldn’t ask my 1stSGT
That question , So I Suggest you do some
Research on your own , I’ll bet you can find the answer your looking for , Without bothering the
Top , in 24 years I never had that question as of me , and thank God it wasn’t ,

Response by MSG Jacqueline Chaplin made Jun 28 at 2018 12:35 AM

2018-06-28T00:35:01-04:00

I have read a number of the responses and as frustrating as this is to you I would suggest getting a haircut (nothing extreme) and let it go. In my career I had a number of superiors who jerked with me. My sweet revenge was when my position changed and they had to come to me for help.

Response by 1SG Patrick Sims made Jun 29 at 2018 12:31 AM

2018-06-29T00:31:13-04:00

You work for the S/SGT. He, or she, may be overly excided about being a S/SGT. It sounds like he, or she, may be getting a bit carried away. Your hair will grow back, boot camp haircuts don't stay with you for a lifetime. So, get a Goddam haircut and this jackass will leave you alone.

Response by Cpl Brian Ruby made Jun 29 at 2018 5:26 PM

2018-06-29T17:26:45-04:00

Get a haircut for Christ's sake! You're in the military. Stupid thing to lose a promotion over or face insubordination charges. Do what you are told and don't argue, unless it is an illegal order like shoot civilians. There are places to draw the line. A haircut isn't one of them.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2018 2:17 AM

2018-07-01T02:17:27-04:00

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2018 2:30 AM

2018-07-01T02:30:22-04:00

Ask yourself this question.... Does it fall in line with AR standards?. If so, then you are in the right. I personally love the " high and tight " look, but I will not impose it on someone to follow. As long as it's within AR regs and standards.

Response by 1SG James Matthews made Jul 1 at 2018 11:35 AM

2018-07-01T11:35:47-04:00

Tell your Sgt. you request a meeting with both him and your 1st. Sgt. to get it settled.

Response by SFC Mark Bailey made Jul 1 at 2018 3:30 PM

2018-07-01T15:30:31-04:00

Simple solution; Cut your hair back
Middle Solution; Get advice from your SGT on all forward actions
Long term solution; Wait for that SSG to go somewhere else

You do not have an issue with your hair, you have a problem with that SSG.
If the hair is fixed, they will focus on something else, until they are able to finally 'set the example of leadership' they are aiming for. This SSG has targetted you for some reason, and they may not even realize it since nobody above them seems to have taken any action.

I am curious why the SGT and PSG have not been mentioned in this series of actions in much detail. If your hair was wrong the SGT should have stepped in, and if you went to see the 1SG where was the interaction with PSG?

For all my years, I would NEVER have had a soldier go to the 1SG before giving me a chance to resolve the issue. I have had two SSG's go to the CSM asking to be reassigned because I would not allow them to mistreat their soldiers under my watchful eye. Both SSG's came back a year later asking to be in my Platoon again and I accepted only one. The other one was eventually chaptered out under a fog of accusations of abuse of his position with respect to his subordinates.

I survived a true a-hole when I was a SP4, and although my TL and SL stepped in, it was no use. I faced a constant barrage of abuse for nearly 18 months. What changed? I was pulled for special duty one day at the request of someone in my leadership chain below that PSG. During the six month OP-CON assignment I was sent to (and almost maxed) the E-5 board.

Response by SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM made Jul 2 at 2018 9:52 AM

2018-07-02T09:52:29-04:00

bro your NCOIC don't like you, if that is the only thing on his mind is your hair. He needs to get some at home or from the bar. really

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2018 11:27 AM

2018-07-02T11:27:34-04:00

Based on that picture you posted, it friggin' looks fine. In fact, that's a very classic comb-over that works very well for people with your hairline (mine is similar). People are getting way too hung up on the tapered thing, but when you keep it longer on the top, that's a good comb-over, and that is your natural part in the hair. Tapered is so widely open to interpretation; your 1SG nailed that on the head. Anyway, it's clearly not "faddish," looks well-maintained, the sides and back look good, and you use product to ensure a presentable appearance.

Good thing your SSG isn't in aviation, he'd have a STROKE if he saw all of our hair.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2018 11:33 AM

2018-07-02T11:33:01-04:00

If you really wanted to get on his bad side, have a copy of the reg in your pocket, if you wanted to do what you’re supposed to do, change it. The reg states it’s up to the supervisor to determine what is appropriate or not.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2018 11:51 AM

2018-07-02T11:51:49-04:00

So what I am getting from this is you got told to cut your hair, you didn't want to regardless of it being in regs or not, took it to 1sg because you needed someone to back you? Just follow orders. It's easier. He wasn't being unlawful, inhumane, embarrasing, or belittling you. You was giving you a. Order to do something. What your SSG right? No. But do it anyways

Response by SSG Daniel Brewster made Jul 2 at 2018 8:00 PM

2018-07-02T20:00:44-04:00

Everybody else has already said it... choose your battles wisely. You wanna be an E4 or E5? Right or wrong, you don’t need to die on this hill. It’s a freaken’ haircut. Maybe you’ll ETS shortly and don’t care what your immediate leadership thinks. You’ll get a job one day and have a boss that wants you to comply about something or another. You can comply or go find another job.

As an NCO or as a civilian boss, there are about a million things a guy could do to torpedo you and you’d never know it. Don’t be so quick to “fight for your rights” over something stupid.

Response by PO2 Seth Carron made Jul 2 at 2018 8:15 PM

2018-07-02T20:15:43-04:00

Talk to your 1SGT, and make sure that he's present at the meeting. It sounds like a huge case of opinion. I don't know army regs st all, but Navy regs state, along with the typical length, color, ect requirements, that anything considered 'faddish' (yes that is the term used last I looked) is prohibited. As you can imagine, the line gives commanders quite a bit of discretion one way or the other on what is acceptable. One commander may have no problem with a certain style, such as what you prefer, while another will. Ultimately the final word is not your SSG's, but hopefully it doesnt have to go beyond your 1SGT. Should this continue after meeting with your SSG and 1SGT, I would either cut your losses, or see if theres another reason the guy wont get off your back.

Response by SGT Mathew Husen made Jul 2 at 2018 11:27 PM

2018-07-02T23:27:29-04:00

If it is fadish(which it is), it is out of regs. If your NCOIC says it is out of regs; it is out of regs. So i say stop worrying about looking pretty, and play Army.

Response by SSG Matthew Koehler made Jul 3 at 2018 2:30 PM

2018-07-03T14:30:02-04:00

Go to the meeting with a copy of AR 670-1. It sounds like his "opinion" is not justified. Bring your TL with you as a witness and possibly someone from JAG

Response by Cpl Brett Wagner made Jul 6 at 2018 12:55 PM

2018-07-06T12:55:58-04:00

I had a SSGT in the Corps who just did not like me and made it his hobby to harass me when he could. I found the best way to live with it was to stay away from him as much as possible and make every effort to impress my Sgt Maj, who was a great man and Marine, not by kissing butt instead volunteering to work for him always looking squared away and making sure he knew I loved the Corps and PT. Eventually that SSGT got what he deserved because he was a piece of dirt. Looking back now (I'm 56) I would do whatever this clown wants. He will only be in your life for a time. Your hair will grow back. Don't let this dick ruin your time serving your country.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2018 10:00 PM

2018-07-27T22:00:00-04:00

The easiest way is to print the part of the regs, hand it to the SSG, and politely ask them to point out where in the regs your hair is not in compliance.
When it comes down to it, there's nothing your SSG can do as long as you are in compliance. Counseling statements? To what end? JAG certainly isn't going to support an Article 15 for counseling statements that are out of line with Army policy and regulation.

Response by PO1 Roger Clites made Jul 29 at 2018 2:44 PM

2018-07-29T14:44:55-04:00

Is he just targeting you and,are others under him getting away with longer hair? Is he consistent with his enforcment? If everyone else has their hair cut short to his standards- best get it cut.

Response by Jerry Rivas made Aug 15 at 2018 8:33 PM

2018-08-15T20:33:55-04:00

Ask your top, and the CO

Response by SFC Carlos Cruz made Aug 23 at 2018 3:06 PM

2018-08-23T15:06:39-04:00

It seems you have a problem where is becoming personal not professional. Today NCOIC seems to be our of order, lack of reading AR to articulate issue with their soldiers. As the NCOIC he shut call in your TL explain the what & why to allow that TL to sit you down & give you a verbal counseling. This allow the TL to begin handle issue with in her or his SQ. Wow anyway the reality is this idiot NCOIC seems to be upset

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 11 at 2019 11:51 PM

2019-06-11T23:51:05-04:00

Post pics. I can tell you that if when your hair isn't jelled and combed over and the bangs fall below your eyebrows, then you are out of regs. Post pics!

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Jun 12 at 2019 1:37 PM

2019-06-12T13:37:24-04:00

It is only hair. I cut mine high and tight with no guard on side and a 1 guard on top. Hair isn't a hill worth dying on.

Response by SSG Rick Reeder made Aug 2 at 2019 8:34 PM

2019-08-02T20:34:22-04:00

Show the SSG the regulation. That should solve the issue. If your haircut meets regs, there isn't anything they can do.

Response by SPC July Macias made May 23 at 2020 7:33 PM

2020-05-23T19:33:22-04:00

In my observation, commissioned officers and E7's tend to have the longest hair (of male soldiers). Since they're senior leadership, and therefore set the example, there's no reason why anyone below their rank should have to look like a skin-head.

Response by SPC Robert Styers made Aug 10 at 2020 6:14 PM

2020-08-10T18:14:35-04:00

If your chief wants it cut then cut it and save yourself the headache

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2020 9:01 PM

2020-08-13T21:01:43-04:00

AR 670-1 Chapter 3 para 3-2 (2). If it keeps up with this NCO then file IG complaint or speak with EO Officer and file a hazing complaint.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Aug 14 at 2021 6:26 PM

2021-08-14T18:26:12-04:00

I’d just cut my hair to what he sees as ok, winning a fight over hair regs with a Sr NCO isn’t much of a win. Sooner or later you lose. It’s petty we all get it, got a hard on for you probably, but yiu show him up and sooner or later you will lose. Not worth it , it’s only a haircut.

Response by PO1 John Crafton made Aug 14 at 2021 8:55 PM

2021-08-14T20:55:24-04:00

Lots of good advice here. My only addition, for what it's worth, is to pick your battles. Decide what it's going to cost you here if you WIN the battle, which would likely involve you pulling out the regs or going over his head and talking to Top.

Don't for a minute think this won't cost you something. Decide whether or not you're willing to pay that price to stand on regs for a haircut.

Response by SFC Garry Kolberg made Aug 14 at 2021 8:58 PM

2021-08-14T20:58:59-04:00

Get the haircut to be within regulation after all hair grows back and this will relieve the tension. Both of you are angry and not willing to give in. Additionally you will PCS to a new unit or the 1SG will. The military survives on uniformity and teamwork and you must make the decision which is more important to you, your haircut or your duty.