How should I handle non-contracted cadets who are disrespecting prior-enlisted cadets?

2020-04-08T05:53:27-04:00

I walked to class asking another cadet (Tutor for help). An upperclassman spoke up and in a disrespectful tone, and said NO ******* CARES, ****. I asked who he was talking too? He responded you ****** retard. I was trying to have a discussion with my another classmate, and was being disrespected by an upperclassman, who was on the losing end of the conversation point to his friends and said him, him and her want you to shut the **** up. He is a GMC200, soon to be POC. I seen this person around pulling his C/Corporal rank and abusing his authority hiding behind a cadet rank, and was trying to degrade me because I was prior enlisted? Then his friends made a comment about enlisted people were to dumb to attend college? What should I do, I really don't like this person, since it my first contact with him since the school year, and we are both students pursing a commission, and with his mentality I wouldn't not want him to lead men and women?

Response by TSgt David Holman made Apr 8 at 2020 8:53 AM

2020-04-08T08:53:36-04:00

That is actually more of a reflection of the personal integrity of that person, and less a reflection of cadets in general. I would point out that there are several (and by several, I mean in the thousands if not more) enlisted personnel who not only have bachelors, there are many who have masters degrees. Not only that, but going to college isn't necessarily a measure of intelligence. There are very ignorant people who attend college, and there are very brilliant people who take jobs doing what they love that doesn't necessarily require a degree.
As for the rank issue, take the high road, show your peers that you are better than a rank, show that you are able to respect the rank despite the person, and press on.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2020 11:38 AM

2020-04-08T11:38:53-04:00

I would laugh and say your a joke kid. Honestly you're a lot better than me in this scenario.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Apr 8 at 2020 11:42 AM

2020-04-08T11:42:02-04:00

His course of study is Associate of Foolishness, working towards a Bachelor of Bozoism and hopes to get his Master of Twittery.
.
Foolishness: A lack of good sense and judgment or stupidity. Synonyms - senseless, vacant, vapid, simple, witless, fatuous, silly, inane, stupid, asinine. To imply weakness of intellect, lack of good sense or judgment; stupidity.
Bozoism: When a person makes their lifestyle that of a clown without intent; a term used by circus clowns to be derogatory.
Twittery: The utterance of successive of inconsequential or tremulous sounds.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2020 12:01 PM

2020-04-08T12:01:50-04:00

Try solving at the lowest level first........if that don't work....then you can either straight up ignore them or report it to the Cadre/Instructors and let them deal with it.

Response by 1LT Kevin Chapman made Apr 8 at 2020 12:18 PM

2020-04-08T12:18:12-04:00

Lol you’re a lot better than I am. I would have likely went off on said Cadet. Seriously, try pulling that individual aside and have a heart to heart conversation and let him know his attitude was out of line. If that doesn’t change things talk to your cadre about the situation.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Apr 8 at 2020 1:51 PM

2020-04-08T13:51:55-04:00

Cadets are cadets and you are all equal. Prior service comes into play with your inherent discipline, foundation with military policies, procedures, uniform policy, level of fitness, and respect shown. Use all of this in ensuring you are performing with dignity and respect. Speak directly to this individual, junior cadet to upper class an, respect his role, if he does not get it then you follow the COC as you did while enlisted. That should end the problem.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Apr 8 at 2020 3:10 PM

2020-04-08T15:10:01-04:00

I'm going to name your GMC200 student "Archie". You have correctly labeled Archie's attempt at pulling rank as a poor leadership technique. You can ignore Archie. Better yet you can talk to one of the Aerospace Studies Professors about Archie's behavior. It certainly doesn't enhance non-Cadet student's impression of ROTC and the Service. If he isn't corrected now, he may carry these behaviors onto active duty where they will be most unwelcome and do harm to him and the enlisted people under is authority.
BTW Cadet Rank is meaningless except in the environs of the Cadet Wing or Group. Everywhere else, nobody cares or understands. I was a Cadet NCO and Officer. I learned from my experiences. The only rank that counted was the one I put on after I graduated, 2d Lt, USAF. A1C Johnny Le, keep your goal in mind, earning a commission. That should help you put Archie's behavior in perspective.

Response by CPT Paul Whitmer made Apr 9 at 2020 12:05 AM

2020-04-09T00:05:01-04:00

wall-to-wall counseling

Response by SSG John Naquin made Apr 9 at 2020 2:05 AM

2020-04-09T02:05:17-04:00

Right now as a cadet unfortunately you have to suck it up drive on. Upon the time this upper classmen ommissions he shall be dealt with by his NCO's. Your prior service has nothing to do with going for commision now except for experience

Response by SSG Jeremy Sharp made Apr 9 at 2020 3:40 PM

2020-04-09T15:40:34-04:00

I think it would have been an excellent opportunity to point out that intelligence and education are not the same thing and preface it by saying quality enlisted personnel are the backbone of all military services. There are far fewer officers than enlisted and good leaders know the value of developing quality subordinate leaders and do not belittle other who seek self improvement. Then I would have added you are a cadet and have really not accomplished much on the roadway to military success as of yet. As a point of comparison, until you are commissioned and attend your basic course for qualification you are less qualified to speak to anything military than any enlisted soldier that has previously served. Then highlighted your litany by adding, it is clear you consider yourself educated but your intelligence is suspect and your ignorance is pervasive, one can only hope that an OBC instructor can enlighten you on the value of a good rapport and relationship with your enlisted soldiers or you will eventually suffer the failure of command that your poor military insight reflects and you are unable to lead those whose motivation and performance is required for your success.

Response by 1SG Joseph Dartey made Apr 9 at 2020 7:52 PM

2020-04-09T19:52:12-04:00

My two cents is this.
When I was a high school Junior ROTC Instructor, I had a similar problem with one of the cadets cursing and being disrespectful to the freshman, this was brought to my attention by a freshman. I asked if the Cadet COC was aware and was told no. I instructed the young Cadet to use the COC and if they didn't resolve it, then I would get involved. Two weeks later, I received a request for demotion if the disrespectful Cadet with all the actions that had been taken. Needless to say, the individual was demoted in rank and removed from the program by the Senior Instructor. The COC does work.

At my retirement ceremony given by the Officers and NCO, I reminded all the Junior Officers that the enlisted personnel could either make them smell like roses or a pile of stinky diarrhea crap. To treat them with dignity, courtesy and respect and that will get them a long way in their military career. What I am saying is, when he goes on active duty, reserve duty or National Guard duty and treats the soldiers the way, he will find out the end results.

Response by SGM Billy Herrington made Apr 9 at 2020 11:33 PM

2020-04-09T23:33:23-04:00

You’re better than me. I would have stomped his ass. I come from a different era though.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2020 12:39 AM

2020-04-10T00:39:07-04:00

I would have told him to go fuck himself with a hot poker but that’s because I’m not nearly as nice as you are.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2020 1:12 AM

2020-04-10T01:12:32-04:00

Being that I commissioned through AFROTC 17 years ago, here is my take. First that cadet is being unprofessional in all regards. No cadet regardless of status should be talking down to any other cadet, sure as hell a GMC should not be doing that. I don't know how they structure ROTC anymore, since it has been almost two decades. When I went through, GMC's were GMC's it didn't matter if one was a 200 and the other was 100. No GMC really had any authority over any other GMC. There were some exceptions where a few 200's were given some position like flight adjutants and a wing adjutant. When I went through we did not try to mirror enlisted positions. Their authority was only good during ROTC business. In fact no cadet really had any authority, including the cadet "wing king" during non-ROTC business, meaning outside of Lead Lab's. Once lead lab was over everyone was a college student again, yeah sure you wore uniforms and still did customs and courtesies. No one ROTC can make you do anything.

In this situation you have several courses of action.
1. You can confront him and tell him he is overstepping his bounds and behaving in an unprofessional manner.
2. You can run a complaint through your cadet chain of command.
3. You can talk off line to one of your cadre actual officers, like the commandant,if you feel the cadet chain is going to be ineffective. I would start the conversation off, as how can I file an EO complaint against a cadet for ongoing harassment? I guarantee that will nip this fast.

I don't how you get along with your cadet leadership, like your flight commander. If you were one of my cadets and someone was doing this, I would have words with that kid and it would be a non-issue after that. If you feel compelled, file an IG or an EO complaint, harassment in the workplace including being a student is not tolerated. I can tell you the last thing your O5 PAS will not want to have that go through. I think as soon as you utter EO your cadre should set him right.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2020 5:38 AM

2020-04-10T05:38:02-04:00

If you have not made an official report by now you are wrong and not doing a justice to yourself or the military

Response by PO1 Mike Wallace made Apr 10 at 2020 9:50 AM

2020-04-10T09:50:37-04:00

I would look at this as an opportunity to demonstrate your leadership skills. While the other cadet is way out of line joining him may give you satisfaction it does not speak well of your leadership ability. We've all known folks like this and in the end their big mouth and crappy attitude will bite them on the butt.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Apr 10 at 2020 9:33 PM

2020-04-10T21:33:05-04:00

Cadets should conduct themselves appropriately regardless. If they don’t then there are already regulations against inappropriate behavior. As for the prior service cadets, they should be able to handle things at their level.

Response by MAJ Byron Oyler made Apr 11 at 2020 10:21 AM

2020-04-11T10:21:10-04:00

This sounds like a dick measuring contest that almost always has no winners. I started my freshmen year of college on a full ride ROTC scholarship five days after completing AIT. I thought prior service enlisted cadets were better than third year cadets with no active experience. I had an ego that contributed to giving up the scholarship. Should you both graduate within a couple of years of each other and commission, this is a person you will see and work with again. Find a way to work together now or down the road it could be uncomfortable. Also it is not your place to decide if he should become a leader, that is for your PMS. Reality here is you need to grow up just as much as this person and this shit is trivial compared to what the world has to offer you.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2020 12:37 AM

2020-04-20T00:37:10-04:00

That is your stereotypical “ROTC-nazi” and on their way to being a terrible butter bar. Ultimately, you will naturally have more respect as a prior E when you eventually pin on, as long as you don't forget your roots. Personal character and integrity make good officers (among other things) of which that cadet is severely lacking

Response by SFC Don Vance made Jun 4 at 2020 10:53 AM

2020-06-04T10:53:38-04:00

WOW!! What a jerk. I would pull him aside and let him know in a respectful manner what a jerk he is. If his attitude didn't change then I would take it to the cadre. We don't need people like him in our military.

Response by LTC Charles "Pappy" Patchin made Jun 8 at 2020 9:25 PM

2020-06-08T21:25:20-04:00

A sincere conversation with the PMS about Cadet Dipwad and the poor leadership qualities he has exhibited, based on your observations as a Cadet and estimation from your prior enlisted service. Also, as prior enlisted you have a special relationship with the NCOs Again, a sincere conversation with the NCOs to make them aware of the lack of respect Cadet Dipwad has for EMs and NCOs.
I am sure that Cadet Dipwad will receive corrective counselling from the PMS and special attention from the NCOs.

Response by CPT Michael Moyers made Jun 10 at 2020 11:49 PM

2020-06-10T23:49:35-04:00

Unfortunately, this is pretty close to home. I was a Green to Gold commission and I dealt with a lot of garbage from the "Cadet Officers" of the senior class when I was a freshman. Honestly, as difficult as it is, the best road is the high one. If you can, I'd try to engage the cadet privately and discuss the importance of professionalism and how they REALLY don't want to be that 2LT who comes off as thinking he knows something because he went through ROTC. If that doesn't work, don't stress too much. Some platoon sergeant (or whatever the AF has) will pull him into an office and tune him up not long after he reports to his first duty station.

Now for some anecdotes. There were 2 cadre who decided to comment to one particular senior when they saw how he was acting. One was very professional (O-3) and the other was very down-to-earth (E-7). The Captain told him, "You fail to realize, the Army SELECTED him to be an officer out of many candidates. In your case, the Army figured that you might one day have what it takes." The SFC simply said, "You realize that if Mr. Moyers takes you into the treeline, you aren't coming back out without help."

Both were accurate statements.

Response by SPC Daniel Rankin made Jun 11 at 2020 5:25 PM

2020-06-11T17:25:22-04:00

Just remember this, you actually might end up being his boss, you having prior service will get you a higher grade then him with no prior and just having college to get him in for the first time. He will start with maybe a 2 lt while you could end up as a 1st lt or even a cpt. Go for it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2020 3:25 AM

2020-06-12T03:25:33-04:00

First off...they should not be saying that shit to ANYONE.
Second...what kind of instructors allow such a POS to be there?
Third...if they are NON CONTRACTED, they are NOT equal. They are just a dude taking a class.
Last...200 is NOT upperclassman...thats Jr and Sr.

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2020 4:39 PM

2020-12-19T16:39:59-05:00

I learned all about A1C Jacobson and her bravery in BMT. Her death should be honored and never forgotten

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2021 8:40 AM

2021-05-10T08:40:33-04:00

My comment is probably going to come off as insensitive, but here is my two cents. This story (except the comment about enlisted going to college, but I'll get to that at the end) sounds like some high-school drama that I personally would be embarrassed to post here. The first person is not disrespecting you as a prior enlisted Airman, they're disrespecting you as a person and should be handled as you would handle any peer disrespecting you. If you're not able to separate rank with personal grievances, that is an issue. Don't make personal issues an issue of rank. Interpersonal tact is required as professionals in the military, and I would be very concerned if my junior leaders didn't understand this.

Now however, the comment about enlisted being "too stupid to get into college" is so ignorant I don't think it even deserves a response, besides being laughed out of the room. But my advice for how to deal with situations like that is ask them how they expect other people to respect them with that level of willful ignorance, without getting pulled into a pointless argument about it. Hopefully they grow up and pull their life together before they actually get put in charge of anything, or else fail miserably before they can progress much further.

In the end you can't control your peers, and there will always be bad leaders in every facet of the military. Handle yourself like a professional, and stand up for your fellow service members without getting caught up in drama or taking things too personally.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2021 9:09 AM

2021-05-10T09:09:33-04:00

How often does this happen? I served with Academy cadets who were going Marine Corps option. They were very squared away and very polite. And they were very respectful to the marine NCOs. I was more of an observer because I was a hospital Corpsman And was not technically in there chain of command. But they did act like they were guests in our world And seemed very happy to be with us. We also had some royal Marines with us end they were very interested in the way we did things in it were very polite and of course incredibly British. So I never really butted heads with any of these guys.
I did attend my brothers high school graduation while on leave. I was probably an E-3 or 4.
We were in civilian clothes. But some ROTC type was sitting behind us regaling his family with tales of his bravery. And then he mentioned that he saw some people in uniform and if they did not salute the flag appropriately he was going to have to go over there and “square them away” so it was pretty obvious that he was going to have a rough time in his future.