How should I proceed if I know about an inappropriate relationship between a single sailor and a married woman?

2018-07-07T20:40:02-04:00

I'm having an issue a soldier's wife of mine has been having an inappropriate relationship with someone from the navy. He can't prove adultry but can prove that they have been messaging and sending snaps back and forth. The sailor is a diver (PO2). Is there a way to inform this dirtbags chain of command on what has been going on?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2018 8:49 PM

2018-07-07T20:49:01-04:00

No proof, no crime. Isn’t it something he should take up with her? IMHO.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2018 8:51 PM

2018-07-07T20:51:52-04:00

Respectfully, he could handle his business and contact a divorce attorney. For all he knows, she’s been telling this poor sailor that she’s single.
Why assume the guy is a dirtbag, when the only known dirtbag variable in the equation is the wife?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2018 8:59 PM

2018-07-07T20:59:10-04:00

The soldier has some damning screenshots of their conversations and the sailor has known her for a long time.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Jul 7 at 2018 9:18 PM

2018-07-07T21:18:30-04:00

I've gotta type short answers, this tablet conks out a lot of late....

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Jul 7 at 2018 9:19 PM

2018-07-07T21:19:21-04:00

Try the chaplain route, honest, it's what many clergy are trained to do, quite frequently in a social work context, not to be naive or intend it as a panacea, of course....

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Jul 7 at 2018 9:21 PM

2018-07-07T21:21:46-04:00

Most experienced clergy I think would have been pretty inured to such scenarios, I should think, very little would shock them, plus, being clergy, they can often get access or handle things delicately, that would he the opposite figuratively of using a sledge hammer to crush a walnut, something like that obv would need real finesse, honest, I think that'd be among the nest possible ways, for real, of be most eager for any thoughts, of course, hope all that was of at least some use, if nothing else....

Response by ENS Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2018 10:13 PM

2018-07-07T22:13:36-04:00

Adultery would fall under UCMJ Article 134. However, since you are a 3rd party, your place is to give your soldier advice and direct him to your legal officer. You have no business getting involved in your soldier's (or the Sailor's) personal affairs.

Response by SSgt Max Gonzales made Jul 7 at 2018 11:05 PM

2018-07-07T23:05:02-04:00

If he has screenshots of their messages, wouldn't that be sufficient?

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Jul 7 at 2018 11:59 PM

2018-07-07T23:59:05-04:00

I would have your Soldier get a lawyer, do all their prep work, then fix and finish them both.

You can have the Commander go to his Commander and get a no contact order, but if you go the other route she won’t be able to get squat out of your Soldier and it is a clean good bye

Response by CPO Glenn Moss made Jul 8 at 2018 6:14 AM

2018-07-08T06:14:31-04:00

Key phrase in your posting:

"He can't prove adultery..."

If there is no proof, then the answer to your question of "Is there a way to inform this dirtbags chain of command on what has been going on?" is NO.

Unsubstantiated accusations of misconduct is WRONG, regardless of how people may feel about it.

The chain of command isn't likely to take any official action BECAUSE it's unsubstantiated. And, if they DO take any kind of action and it turns out NOT to have been warranted, then the Petty Officer will have been wrongfully accused (and possibly punished) and the command will be at fault for that.

More, whoever made the accusations, being servicemembers, may in turn be prosecuted for this.

"Inappropriate", on the level you've cited, likewise does not warrant command involvement.

THAT SAID:

If proof of a violation of UCMJ punitive articles IS obtained, then there are essentially two avenues that may be pursued:

The soldier can notify the Petty Officer's chain of command by letter, which may or may not include a report chit filled out with the details of the UCMJ article violations.

OR

The soldier can submit a letter through his own chain of command to the Petty Officer's chain of command, which may or may not include a report chit filled out with the details of the UCMJ article violations.

Before any of this is done, however, I highly recommend this guy sit down and READ the UCMJ punitive articles and learn how to fill out a report chit in the detail required. This includes all the elements of each offense he's being accused of. If he cannot do this, then there is no point in submitting anything to the Petty Officer's chain of command because there will be nothing that the chain of command can, or will, do.

Response by SFC David Xanten made Jul 8 at 2018 4:07 PM

2018-07-08T16:07:44-04:00

I once had the same problem, a Gunny was having an affair with a friends wife, I notified his SGM and within a week he was gone. Neither knew what happened and life went on

Response by SGM(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2018 7:19 PM

2018-07-08T19:19:07-04:00

Ask the chain of command to issue a no contact order to the soldier or sailor... adultery is tough to prove, violating a no contact order isnt. It wont solve the problem entirely but its a bandaid till the SM can get a divorce or some counseling, either way it removes the offending party from the equation while they figure out thier marriage.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2018 9:39 PM

2018-07-08T21:39:30-04:00

If he can't prove adultery he can't get that sailor in trouble. Honestly tell that soldier to just go find a good divorce lawyer and file for divorce.

But adultery doesn't get prosecuted unless there's some actual evidence of it. Basically they pretty much have to be caught in the act or one of them admits to it.

Edit: I wouldn't get too involved in notifying the sailor's chain of command. I would tell the soldier to confront his wife about this. He may want to talk to a chaplain or marriage counselor first. But he does need to talk to his wife because this should be between those two and no one else. I think he should divorce her but if they can work it out, I suppose. That's not your concern or anyone else's. You direct him to the proper resources to assist him in a decision or if he does file divorce.

If he wants to address the sailor himself, he can but it probably will start more drama. He can't control his wife (despite what some think on here) and if she continues this he has to do what's best for him. If there are kids involved, that is completely different situation as well he needs to think about. If there are no kids, I think he should get out before they get to that point. That's my opinion.

You don't have any concrete evidence of an affair or adultery. Neither does he. So he needs to deal with what he can control and that's his marriage.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jul 9 at 2018 9:11 AM

2018-07-09T09:11:59-04:00

1. It is not against regs to talk or send pics, unless they are lewd or suggestive in nature. 2. I don't see how you can do anything. 3. The SM involved may be able to contact the Sailor's unit/ship, but without any solid proof of anything inappropriate, he will be laughed off. Talking, ordinary pics are NOT Inappropriate. This should be resolved as a personal matter for the couple- to include counseling.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2018 9:16 AM

2018-07-09T09:16:17-04:00

As many have said, without proof nothing "official" can be done to anyone. BUT, that doesn't mean something can't be done at all. You could still call the sailors commander and in a non-accusatory way tell him what your soldier's concerns are and see if he'd be willing to simply discuss the matter with his sailor. Give the sailor every benefit of the doubt that he may not know she's married. You're simply trying to protect the sailor and save your soldier's marriage. Most people I know would not have an issue with that. If the commander simply says anything to the sailor, it may be enough for him to realize that people are watching and to back off.

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Jul 9 at 2018 11:33 AM

2018-07-09T11:33:51-04:00

One of those hard lessons to learn in life...Best bet is to stay out of it.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2018 1:14 PM

2018-07-09T13:14:51-04:00

Yes. Find his unit and contact the CMC or MCPO about it. Or, you could find out his shit and notify the Admiral/Captain in charge of the vessel.

Additionally, you could contact the Shore Patrol and report it to them.

All that being said however, while I understand that you are upholding UCMJ standards, I am curious as to why the Soldier himself is not doing this. While you are his NCO, it would mean less to the Sailor's chain of command coming from you than from the Soldier himself.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 11 at 2018 10:15 AM

2018-07-11T10:15:56-04:00

It's definitely a bummer for your soldier, but you can't make anyone be faithful. It's why our drill sergeants used to tell us that Jody is banging our girl; it happens to every servicemember. There's no way that your soldier's marriage is going to make it in the long run; I'd tell him to stay positive and find another one.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2018 7:04 PM

2018-07-12T19:04:16-04:00

The lowest scum in the Military IMHO... Had this happen to many Soldiers during deployments. If that "Seaman" was reporting to me I'd have his @$$!!
ZERO tolerance should be the flavor of the day.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2018 8:19 AM

2018-07-13T08:19:48-04:00

Absolutely. You can contact his CoC and state that the Sailor is engaging in activities and behavior that bring discredit to his service.

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Jul 13 at 2018 9:36 AM

2018-07-13T09:36:26-04:00

Why don't you stay the fuck out of other people's business. This is between a PRIVATE CITIZEN and a single sailor whom you have NO AUTHORITY OVER. You fully state in your question that all you have is heresy as evidence. Stay the fuck out of it and mind your own business. Its not about you.

Response by CW3 Ed Vincent made Jul 14 at 2018 8:18 AM

2018-07-14T08:18:51-04:00

That's tough. I'd contact the sailor and let him know she's married and to back off. Then his CoC

Response by SP5 Peter Keane made Jul 14 at 2018 1:00 PM

2018-07-14T13:00:17-04:00

Tell your soldier to divorce her, as she is the scumbag

Response by Cpl Jeff Ruffing made Jul 16 at 2018 6:11 AM

2018-07-16T06:11:23-04:00

It’s an easy way to prove if she is having a relationship with this guy. A private investigator could help. Today, EVERYTHING you do with electronics has a signature and can be found. I’m not sure of civilian law, but, you can get the sailor in trouble by submitting this information to his chain of command. I had an incident where a soldier was brought in front of his company commander about an affair he was having with another soldiers wife. This soldier was able to prove that he did not know this woman was married. He was instructed to severe ties with this woman. He actually got two witnesses to accompany him to see this woman at her work and told her not to contact him again. As far as your soldier that you are trying to help, he should seek outside legal representation and Institute a divorce. No sense in trying to save this marriage if she is seeking outside male companionship.

Response by SSG Keith Bodiford (Ret) made Jul 16 at 2018 3:21 PM

2018-07-16T15:21:28-04:00

Here's my issue, is it inappropriate for one service member to get with another's wife yes.

Should you lose a career? Only if your using your rank ite position to do so. If she's running to him and him to her.

The Soldier needs to make a course of action.

Figure out of he wants to stay married of so pursue counseling.

If not find a lawyer.

What is your role? Support him and let him know you'll be there if he needs anything.

Other than that those are adults doing adult activities nothing ILLEGAL. immoral yes, illegal no. Except in the military where it doesn't apply to the commander in chief

Response by CN Kristen Ruder made Jul 17 at 2018 12:02 PM

2018-07-17T12:02:34-04:00

Mind your business and let the chips fall where they may.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2018 8:47 AM

2018-07-28T08:47:59-04:00

If there is an accusation to be made of actions not in line with regulations or good order and discipline within a chain of command - try the IG. You are a third party so I recommend your Soldier visit with them. They are responsible to handle accusations within a GO/FO's command. Anyone can make an accusation; the IG can sort out if the allegation is appropriate and what the Soldier's and his commander's courses of action are.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2018 5:39 PM

2018-07-28T17:39:32-04:00

As I read through the previous comments on this post, I see a lot of "just look the other way" and "itd none of your business". THAT IS BS. we are a professional organization that prides itself in honor and integrity. If you have a servicemember under your authority who is suspected of violating the UCMJ you have an obligation to take action. We are leaders; Act like it.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2018 5:24 PM

2018-07-29T17:24:32-04:00

SSG,

Your heart is in the right place but this is not your fight or a road you should go down. If your troop doesn't have definitive proof she is cheating then all he has is his wife talking to another man. This is not a criminal offence.

Flip the script, say you were contacted by a Navy Chief saying one of your Troops may or may not be shagging one of his sailors wife and he wants you to put a stop to it or throw the UCMJ at the offender... What would you say? "What proof do you have?" That's going to be the question, while I hate people who cant stay faithful to their spouse, at the same time all you have is third hand accounts and possibility's, direct your Troop to the Chaplin get him and his wife some marriage counseling or let them decided to get a divorce. But getting involved in personal matters doesn't end well for ALL parties involved.

Again your hearts in the right place and I understand but slow your roll till you know all the facts. just my advice.

Response by PO2 John Driskill made Aug 2 at 2018 11:01 AM

2018-08-02T11:01:51-04:00

Let the chips fall where they may. Stay out of other peoples marriage problems.

Response by Lt Col Jim Bemis made Aug 4 at 2018 10:36 PM

2018-08-04T22:36:09-04:00

While I tend agree that Army commander's role should be in gently guiding his troop to take action on his marriage, it does not mean that something cannot be done to at least (even if temporarily) end the improper relationship between the sailor and wife. It is not about whether adultery can be proved, not about whether the sailor is a for that or not. The soldier's morale has been threatened, as has the sailor's career, even if unwittingly. By finding the sailor's unit commander, and letting that officer know what has been going on just as an objective matter, that officer can have the ability to at least order the sailor to stay away from the wife at least until a divorce comes through giving the soldier peace of mind, and saving the sailor from making a greater mistake. It is also important from the standpoint that, just as the sailor may be innocent in his motives and knowledge, his Navy commander may already have evidence of a pattern of behavior by the sailor that indicates he is a lothario who spends his off-hours seducing married women. Either scenario might prove possible, if not likely. In any case, giving the Navy commander the knowledge he or she needs to keep their sailor out of trouble, improve morale, and maintain discipline is as important as playing "gotcha" with the sailor on a charge of adutry.

Response by PO3 John Jeter made Aug 10 at 2018 8:22 PM

2018-08-10T20:22:05-04:00

The wording is a bit awkward for me at the moment, (damn meds) but I believe you're saying that one of your men/friend is having a fidelity issue with a spouse. With all respect - Not your monkey, not your circus. Support your friend/soldier but let him handle the matter. If he asks for advice, fine. Tell him your thoughts, but let him take any action needed. There's a fine line there, where well-intentioned help can amplify or aggravate the problem in ways you don't expect. Then the person you're trying to support gets torqued at both you and them. By all means, be there for your buddy, but this is his fight.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Aug 10 at 2018 11:20 PM

2018-08-10T23:20:54-04:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member Your wife, your problem! Otherwise, Nosey Rosie. None of your beeswax!

Response by COL David Turk made Aug 11 at 2018 6:57 AM

2018-08-11T06:57:43-04:00

If the SM is definitely going the divorce route, he should secure advice from his lawyer about legally separating his financial accounts.

Response by LCpl Cody Collins made Aug 13 at 2018 1:12 PM

2018-08-13T13:12:04-04:00

Stay out of it, even if you are related to either party stay out

Response by SPC Chris Ison made Sep 1 at 2018 11:31 PM

2018-09-01T23:31:09-04:00

Adultery only violates the UCMJ when "good order and discipline" has been compromised. So if your BN CO is banging a SGT's wife, within that chain of command or unit, that is an issue. Since these are two separate branches their is no violation. The best solution either way is for your soldier to man the fuck up and divorce his wife.

Response by Capt George Kent Brashear made Sep 2 at 2018 2:09 PM

2018-09-02T14:09:05-04:00

Here it is 2 Sep 2018. The original question was posted on Jul 7. That's almost two whole months that we've been beating this horse. I'm sure this soldier has been hurting over this and probably affecting his job performance to boot. I sympathize with him, but in the end, isn't this a problem he and his wife have to work out? SSG Christopher Walkowiak, what does your First Sergeant have to say?

Response by SPC Sean Martin made Sep 3 at 2018 5:57 PM

2018-09-03T17:57:42-04:00

Let it go!! If it doesn't directly effect you...move on!! Worry about #1, don't step in #2!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2018 12:03 AM

2018-09-08T00:03:11-04:00

Mind your own biz

Response by TSgt Dan Kenna made Sep 16 at 2018 11:32 AM

2018-09-16T11:32:19-04:00

Snitches get stitches. Mind your own business.

Response by Col Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2018 6:14 PM

2018-09-26T18:14:05-04:00

Not your business.

Response by Col Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2018 6:21 PM

2018-09-26T18:21:10-04:00

If this does not impact good order and discipline, this is irrelevant. For the most part, what happens between the sheets should stay between the sheets. What if this other person worked for Verizon Wireless - would you call the CEO? Understand your empathy for your soldier. My guidance is this: he is a man, it is his marriage, it is his issue, between him and his wife. He needs to learn how to handle and manage his own problems. Your interference is not teaching him to be independent, to be accountable, to be resilient. Let it be. Be extremely careful with any allegations that could lead to the damage of someone else's reputation. You are a war fighter, not a member of the morality police. Keep your thoughts to yourself on these personal matters.

Response by SGT Mark Rhodes made Oct 6 at 2018 1:42 PM

2018-10-06T13:42:41-04:00

You could use several ways to inform the COC but if she is cheating on your soldier is she worth him keeping her around. If the COC does get involved the dependent wife will be the one who is most likely to be disciplined and removed from base. So you could advise the soldier to talk to the Chaplin for counseling’s or to JAG for a divorce. In this situation your soldier is going to lose his wife one way or another and there really is no reason to keep her around. I have seen and dealt with this before and the soldier who is being cheated on always lost. Coach him through it and always take any advice and counsel from trusted individuals.

Response by PFC Ray Aquila made Nov 9 at 2019 12:58 PM

2019-11-09T12:58:25-05:00

It is best you and anyone else knowing of this relationship to stay out of it.
A guilty conscious will inevitably be forth coming. Meddling in another's affair
is why, we, as a nation are in state we're in.

Response by Maj John Bell made Nov 24 at 2019 6:20 PM

2019-11-24T18:20:06-05:00

I suggest that the first step is to contact the "dirtbag."
_Does he know the woman is married?
_Have you seen the content of messages and snaps they are exchanging? Knowing that content may be helpful if you feel it is appropriate to have a man-to-man with the sailor about the "appearance of impropriety."
_If the sailor blows you off, I'd talk to the person in his chain of command equivalent to you. I'd lay out your evidence, and let him know that you understand that it may not be the "proof" beyond a reasonable doubt, but it is enough to warrant some chain of command "advice."
_If the soldier doesn't object, I might send him to a chaplain prior to sending him to a divorce lawyer, especially if their are kids involved.