How should the Chain of Command handle a service member with multiple repeat DUIs?

ENS Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Sep 2016 13:32:59 -0400

1. A service member was knocked down and put on restriction for a DUI and falsifying official documents. Service member was allowed to continue service.

2. Same service member was arrested for DUI several months later. Service member was knocked down to E1, placed on restriction, and scheduled for discharge.

3. A week after service member was released from restriction they were stopped by police for leaving base illegally, speeding, and DUI. Service member was arrested.

Service member was already an E1 and being processed for discharge. What can and should the Chain of Command due to this person? Service member has reset the command's DUI counter to 000 three times.

Response by SFC Pete Kain made Sep 12 at 2016 1:36 PM

SFC Pete Kain — Mon, 12 Sep 2016 13:36:51 -0400

Confinement until discharge comes to mind. If let loose he will eventually kill someone, or many.
Turning the member loose on society does seem unfair though.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 12 at 2016 1:41 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Sep 2016 13:41:06 -0400

It may be time to reconsider short term correctional confinement for issues like this. It would give the services time to evaluate the soldier, figure out what issues their having and perhaps address them in such a way that would benefit both the services and the service member before they really crash and burn. I saw it used heavily during the early 80's and I believe it benefited both soldiers and the Army.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Sep 12 at 2016 1:43 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Mon, 12 Sep 2016 13:43:54 -0400

In this day and age, I didn't realize that a SM would be around long enough to get a second one.

Response by Maj John Bell made Sep 12 at 2016 1:48 PM

Maj John Bell — Mon, 12 Sep 2016 13:48:09 -0400

I was a hard drinker during my LT days. But I always had or was a designated driver. It is a safety issue. I view this as no less stupid and malicious as taking your rifle from the armory getting liquored up and firing off a few rounds near the BOQ/BEQ.

There should be no second chance for a DUI. As a PltLdr and Company CO, all my Marines carried a Chain of Command phone tree that include me and my senior SNCO who would come get you, no questions and no repercussions, as long as you hadn't done something else stupid. I made a half dozen pick ups in my times in command, no questions, no repercussions.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Sep 12 at 2016 1:56 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Mon, 12 Sep 2016 13:56:10 -0400

There is a point where Article 15 (NJP) is no longer the answer and Court Martial is. Repeat offenses using LETHAL equipment "might" be one of those times.

Response by 1SG Al Brown made Sep 12 at 2016 1:57 PM

1SG Al Brown — Mon, 12 Sep 2016 13:57:53 -0400

While the SM is serving the latest 45 days extra duty and 45 days restriction, get the Chapter 10 done, signed and escort him / her just beyond the front gate. Don't forget to take the ID card before you drive away. That's how it's done.

Response by LTC Kevin B. made Sep 12 at 2016 2:00 PM

LTC Kevin B. — Mon, 12 Sep 2016 14:00:48 -0400

I'd try to chapter them out of the military. One DUI? Maybe they're redeemable, if they're a junior enlisted. An NCO or an officer would have to go. Two or more? That's just too problematic, and more indicative of major character flaws. They'd have to go.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Sep 12 at 2016 2:14 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Mon, 12 Sep 2016 14:14:40 -0400

This falls under Commanders Discretion so each Commander will decide meaning that not all DUI will be the same.

Response by Sgt Kelli Mays made Sep 12 at 2016 2:41 PM

Sgt Kelli Mays — Mon, 12 Sep 2016 14:41:28 -0400

knock his rank down...here in Texas you'll spend time in prison on your second one...then what? kick them out of the service? They can't serve if they are locked up.

Response by PO2 Robert Aitchison made Sep 12 at 2016 2:46 PM

PO2 Robert Aitchison — Mon, 12 Sep 2016 14:46:30 -0400

In this case I'd say confinement until his discharge was completed.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Sep 12 at 2016 2:48 PM

MCPO Roger Collins — Mon, 12 Sep 2016 14:48:40 -0400

Of course something in addition can be done, delay the discharge for six months, use the general article and find him guilty. Dry him out, at least temporarily.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 12 at 2016 2:53 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Sep 2016 14:53:13 -0400

My assumption is this individual doesn't care and he/she is a repeat offender. DUI's are handled at the General Officer Level now...for most Army Installations this means that the installation commander or Assist Installation Commander has the duty and responsibility to execute UCMJ Authority for DUI's....this used to be handled at the BN and Brigade Level at one point...The Soldier's Commander probably doesn't want to waste any more resources on this Soldier and the sooner you get rid of him the better....personally if it was an option, I would put him a holding cell until his paper's are signed off by the GO.

These days the tolerance for DUI is Zero and Commanders don't have a cell to throw people in, if they did this would be too easy....if you are a junior soldier E-4 & Below and in some cases a 2LT could possibly have a 2nd chance based on successfully finishing a Command Sponsored Rehabilitation Program (30 Day Inpatient)...

It's pretty obvious that the service member has no regard for authority and could also posibly have a significant alchohol problem...at this point I would keep the wheels turning with the discharge...another posibility is the characterization of Discharge could be upgraded from a General/OTH discharge to a Chapter 10 (Dishonorable Discharge)...which will follow the SM for the rest of his/her life...

Response by SGT David T. made Sep 12 at 2016 3:34 PM

SGT David T. — Mon, 12 Sep 2016 15:34:48 -0400

I say boot him and be done with it. Don't waste more resources on this one.

Response by SSG Tom Pike made Sep 12 at 2016 4:10 PM

SSG Tom Pike — Mon, 12 Sep 2016 16:10:47 -0400

Unfortunately the service member has a serious alcohol problem that is not being addressed. But the service member need to admit they have a problem and seek help. Until the service member hits rock bottom and seeks help they will not change, and continued Article 15's, even court marshal will not change their behavior.

For the safety of everyone else, lock them up until they are discharged.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Sep 12 at 2016 4:27 PM

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth — Mon, 12 Sep 2016 16:27:18 -0400

As a commander I had zero tolerance for DUI. If you were arrested, tried, and found guilty then you were gone. I can't trust an Airman with my life when he or she can't have enough rational thought to take care of their own self and have a plan. With that being said they always had a way out. I always told them that myself, the 1st Sgt, Chief, or their flight chief would come pick them up and get them home. Now we might have a discussion when they sober up about having a better plan but at least they thought enough to not get behind the wheel drunk. This guy should have been gone first offense for me. After the second offense, I might have conversation with his commander and question his or her ability to command by putting others at risk by allowing this to continue.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Sep 12 at 2016 4:29 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Mon, 12 Sep 2016 16:29:31 -0400

Court Martial, delay seperation until CM is done, then once convicted and in jail, chap 14, discharge upon release from jail....

Or perhaps initiate the CM, and offer up a chap 10 just to get a problem child away from the unit.

Response by CPL Anthony Slaughter made Sep 12 at 2016 4:35 PM

CPL Anthony Slaughter — Mon, 12 Sep 2016 16:35:08 -0400

I would suggest confinement, since Pvt Snuffy has clearly demonstrated that they are a danger to themselves and others when left unsupervised.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 12 at 2016 5:10 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Sep 2016 17:10:31 -0400

They are a danger to themselves and others and should be confined. They shouldn't have been allowed to continue service after the first one. Not drinking and driving is the easiest thing in the world. You just don't do it. How can they be trusted around weapons and machinery if they can't follow simple instructions like don't drink and drive? Zero tolerance is the only way to deal with a DUI.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 12 at 2016 5:13 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Sep 2016 17:13:36 -0400

discharge other than honorable asap

Response by CPT Tom Monahan made Sep 12 at 2016 5:30 PM

CPT Tom Monahan — Mon, 12 Sep 2016 17:30:09 -0400

The person has a problem. BCD Special or continue the chapter and get them into a VA rehab program.

Response by MCPO Kevin Powers made Sep 12 at 2016 5:58 PM

MCPO Kevin Powers — Mon, 12 Sep 2016 17:58:01 -0400

http://www.jag.navy.mil/distrib/instructions/OPNAV5350.4DDrugandAlcohol.pdf

(1) Commands will discipline, as appropriate, and
process for ADSEP, those members whose alcohol-related
misconduct is serious (see enclosure (4) of this instruction for
"serious offense" definition), who are repeat offenders, or who
do not respond favorably to treatment.

OPNAV5350.4DDrugandAlcohol.pdf

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 12 at 2016 8:00 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Sep 2016 20:00:30 -0400

I think the service member should not be allowed to hold any position of leadership and the same night of the incident discharge paper work should start! You would think as much as commands emphasize NO DUIs, some soldiers would listen. I would say ensure they understand the consequences and hold them to that standard, even if it is their fist violation.

Response by SGT James Eldridge made Sep 12 at 2016 8:24 PM

SGT James Eldridge — Mon, 12 Sep 2016 20:24:29 -0400

What asshole is allowing him off post? If you have a soldier with a substance abuse problem the answer isn't just an article 15! If you don't wanna put him/her out, lock them down, send them to counseling and test them regularly! Assign them a battle and figure out what the problem is!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2016 12:18 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 00:18:39 -0400

All Leaders should know something about Veteran Justice Outreach-
http://www.justiceforvets.org/what-is-a-veterans-treatment-court

What is a Veterans Treatment Court? | Justice for Vets

Most veterans are strengthened by their military service, but the combat experience has unfortunately left a growing number of veterans with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder and Traumatic Brain Injury. One in five veterans has symptoms of a mental health disorder or cognitive impairment. One in six veterans who served in Operation Enduring Freedom and Operation Iraqi Freedom suffer from a substance abuse issue. Research continues to draw a link...

Response by SN Kevin Neff made Sep 13 at 2016 2:17 AM

SN Kevin Neff — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 02:17:17 -0400

He sounds like he wanted to get out and this was his only way. They gave him one too many chances to try and change his ways, but his actions sound deliberate. No SM is that dumb I would hope.

Response by SCPO Jason McLaughlin made Sep 13 at 2016 5:42 AM

SCPO Jason McLaughlin — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 05:42:59 -0400

Couple of things that do not jibe.
One: conviction of DUI is an automatic loss of on base driving privileges.
Two: conviction of multiple DUI's would result in a suspended license.
Three: conviction of multiple DUI's there is no way an E-1 would be able to afford the car insurance.

I did not see the above offenses listed. Is this a hypothetical situation?

Response by COL David Turk made Sep 13 at 2016 6:09 AM

COL David Turk — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 06:09:14 -0400

In my initial tour as an MP at Fort Dix, the Post Commander had instructed the Provost Marshal that the MPs would pick up drunks and return them to their company quarters without a notation, as long as they were not biligerent. Effectively we were taxis. As a major training post at the time, there were always plenty of drunks to be shuttled, and not just trainees.

Then there were the drunk DI's who would go back to their quarters and beat their wives (usually foreign born). That was back before the commander could prosecute without consent from the victim.
I got jaded pretty quickly. Have very little tolerance for those who drink irresponsibly. I'm all for having a good time, but not when your actions affect others.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2016 8:10 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 08:10:03 -0400

One word. Separation.

Response by PO1 Jack Howell made Sep 13 at 2016 8:14 AM

PO1 Jack Howell — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 08:14:30 -0400

If you have 2 alcohol-related incidents while in the Navy, you get discharged. I've seen it happen several times.

Response by LtCol J W made Sep 13 at 2016 8:44 AM

LtCol J W — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 08:44:19 -0400

A little brig time never hurt anyone and it sometimes is what it takes to get an offenders attention. Commander can do wonder for attitude adjustment by applying the right amount of adjusting. But in the case, it's probably too late. The offender shoe be booted out. He should have been adjusted earlier before it became a bad habit for him.

Response by COL John Hudson made Sep 13 at 2016 9:17 AM

COL John Hudson — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 09:17:09 -0400

"Goodbye."

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2016 10:31 AM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 10:31:24 -0400

Treatment then discharge. I agree that this person has made decisions that have crossed the line for retention in any service, but we have an obligation to any member to make sure they are medically fit when they separate. I'm the last person to make excuses for someone but, who knows what this persons problem is, maybe they are an alcoholic, maybe they are self medicating for some trauma in their life. In my experience we have a good program in place which includes sending them to inpatient treatment if necessary. They shouldn't be allowed any Liberty until they have been to some sort of treatment first you've learned that already. Once they are fit for full duty I'd say that's a good time for a discharge. Not sure what good a Court Martial is going to do? Reduction, confinement and loss of pay isn't good enough? In my opinion a trial and subsequent sentence by court martial is a waste of time and resources when separation is clearly the answer.

Response by PO1 David Swift made Sep 13 at 2016 11:26 AM

PO1 David Swift — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 11:26:03 -0400

There has to be a point were enough is enough of this type behavior and time for him to be separated.

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Sep 13 at 2016 11:35 AM

MSgt Michael Smith — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 11:35:24 -0400

Easy --you are done.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2016 12:26 PM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 12:26:28 -0400

Bread and Water for 3 Days, Mast, Discharge. Be done with the situation, make it an open mast to drive the point home with anyone else that is borderline on this topic.

There is no help for this person they do not care about themselves or others safety. 3 DUI's let the cops have them and stop paying them.

Response by SGT Jody Beach made Sep 13 at 2016 1:29 PM

SGT Jody Beach — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 13:29:41 -0400

Did any of you think that there might be more to it then they just got drunk???? Why did they get so drunk? What is the reasoning behind it? If it was just pure ignorance then sure chapter them out. But you first must allow them a chance to attend APAPCP .... If that doesn't work then what more can you do other then a chapter. Everyone has problems and there is only ever one perfect person to walk this earth, Jesus ,,, By the way how many of you text while driving? Talk on a cell phone while driving? Make changes to military equipment without proper request of modifications? Looked for every opportunity to score on a PCS? Not looking for a fight I am just saying.
Oh yea I would say this person has a serious problem or is just fucking stupid.........

Response by SFC James Asbill made Sep 13 at 2016 1:58 PM

SFC James Asbill — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 13:58:14 -0400

No back in my time .. this person would be secured either in confinement Facility awaiting punishment .. or secured (handcuffed to radiator in room for an example.) and guarded until discharge ..

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Sep 13 at 2016 2:34 PM

SPC Sheila Lewis — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 14:34:34 -0400

Ever since my sister was killed in a head-on collision with a drunk driver six months ago, I have no tolerance for this sort of behavior.

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Sep 13 at 2016 2:36 PM

SPC Sheila Lewis — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 14:36:43 -0400

Early intervention turns many around...

Response by SGT Matthew Schenkenfelder made Sep 13 at 2016 3:34 PM

SGT Matthew Schenkenfelder — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 15:34:56 -0400

I'm not sure why military leaders and commander's are so afraid to launch problem children out of the military. He should have been kicked out after the first offense of DUI.

Response by SFC Joseph Weber made Sep 13 at 2016 5:57 PM

SFC Joseph Weber — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 17:57:17 -0400

Court Martial and Prison. I don't think the DUI counter is very important but not maximizing punishment against an asshole who might drive into the side of a car with my Grandson in it is.

Response by SPC Matt Henry made Sep 14 at 2016 2:30 AM

SPC Matt Henry — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 02:30:48 -0400

The military needs a 24/7 sobriety program to reduce repeat DUI's. Upon arrest for DUI the service member is ordered to abstain from any/all alcohol consumption and to submit twice a day for a Portable Breath Test to identify alcohol consumption. Tests are at 12 hr intervals 0500-0700 then at 1700-1900 hrs.

Response for failures is incremental beginning with 24 hr confinement through 1 week confinement. Enforcement as a UCMJ Article 92 violation - failure to follow a written order. These programs can identify service members with alcohol problems and allows for additional help through ASAP or other resources. The program also identifies the alcohol use independent of driving!! Failure from the program results in jail for the full term of the initial conviction (usually 1 yr or less for a first offense). Failure from the program would also result in a BCD.

There are currently 14 states using some form of these programs - they have a better than 99% success rate for all Portable Breath Tests - program participants DO NOT DRINK. If they don't drink they don't Drive Under the Influence! Participants in these programs indicate once they stop drinking they begin to make better, sober, decisions in all aspects of their lives.

These programs will reduce your repeat DUI's and can be expanded to any/all alcohol related offenses. For example the service member who gets drunk and fights with the spouse (or neighbor, or anybody). Any offense with alcohol involvement can result in signing up for the program.

This is a very brief outline for what would be a much more complicated program but these programs are in effect and very successful in the civilian world and should be used in the military environment.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2016 6:49 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 06:49:19 -0400

THE PROBLEM WITH SOLDIERS EXPERIENCING THESE TYPE OF MULTIPLE VIOLATIONS WITHIN OUR MILITARY BRANCHES IS THAT THEY ARE EXPERIENCING SOMETHING THAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR LIVES THAT THEY DONT KNOW HOW TO RESOLVE AND THEY CARRY THIS UNRESOLVE AROUND WITH THEM THROUGHOUT THEIR DAYS AND NIGHTS, THE ALCHOHOL IS THE QUICKEST WAY IN THEIR REACH WITHOUT INVOLVING OR REACHING OUT FOR HELP FROM A HUMAN BEING WITHIN THEIR CHAIN OF COMMAND OR A HUMAN INTERACTION AGENCY WITHIN THE MILITARY SERVICE. THESE TYPE OF SOLDIERS FEEL LIKE TIME IS NOT ON THEIR SIDE TO GET THE HELP THEY NEED TO FEEL WHOLE AGAIN SO THEY JUST GO ON TRYING TO PSYCHOLOGICALLY PUT THEIR PROBLEM ASIDE WHILE TRYING TO BE A SOLDIER AND HOPING THAT NO ONE WILL DISCOVER THAT THEY ARE HAVING A PROBLEM IN THEIR LIVES THAT IS CAUSING THEM ANGER, EMBARRASSMENT, FRUSTRATION, RESENTMENT, OR PERHAPS WORRYATION. I DONT KNOW WHAT THIS SOLDIER'S PROBLEM IS BUT, MOST OF THE TIME ITS EITHER FINANCIAL, FAMILY, A LOVER, A SUPERVISOR, A PEER, OR SOMETHING AS SIMPLE AS TIME.WHATEVER IT IS THIS SOLDIER CANT HANDLE IT BY THEMSELVES BECAUSE THEIR BEHAVIOR DISPLAYS IT. SO, WHAT WE AS MILITARY LEADERS HAVE TO DO IS BE MORE VIGILANT IN THE WAY WE DEAL WITH THESE TYPE OF ISSUES WHEN OUR SOLDIERS ARE DISPLAYING THESE BEHAVIORS.THESE SOLDIERS ARE TRYING HARD NOT TO HAVE TO TALK TO ANY BODY ABOUT THEIR PROBLEMS WHICH IS CAUSING THEM LEGAL PROBLEMS ON TOP OF THEIR OTHER PROBLEMS. YEA, THE QUICKEST THING FOR US TO DO IS TO ARREST THEM AND OR KICK THEM OUT OF THE MILITARY, BUT IS THAT THE ANSWER OR MESSAGE THAT WE WANT TO SEND OUT TO OUR SOLDIERS ? THE ANSWERE SHOULD BE NO!!! NOT IF WE CARE. I SAY GET THE SOLDIER SOME REAL HELP, IT SHOULD BE MANDATORY TO PLACE THIS TYPE OF SOLDIER INSTEAD OF IN JAIL, PLACE HIM OR HER IN AN INSTITUTIONAL PROGRAM THAT GETS TO THE SOLDIERS ROOT OF THEIR PROBLEMS THEN GIVE THEM OR HELP THEM GET THE HELP THEY NEED TO GET BACK ON TRACK AS A SOLDIER.IM SURE THEY WILL BE MORE GREATFUL OF THAT RATHER THAN THE SHAME AND EMBARRASSMENT THAT THEY WILL SUFFER KNOWING THAT THEY HAD A PROBLEM THAT IF THEY KNEW THEY COULD GET RATIONAL HELP WITHOUT BEING EMBARRASSED THEY WOULD PREFER THAT ALTERNATIVE GIVEN THAT OPTION. THE PROBLEM IS THAT A LOT OF SOLDIERS ARE NOT GIVEN THAT OPTION. IM NOT SAYING THIS IS THE PROBLEM FOR THIS SOLDIER BECAUSE I DONT KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THIS SOLDIER BUT IF THIS IS THE CASE IN THIS MATTER THAT IS MY RECOMMENDATION AS A LEADER. AND IM SURE THAT THIS SOLDIER DID NOT WASTE THEIR TIME WITH A VISION TO SIGN THEMSELVES INTO THE MILITARY TO PUT THEMSELVES THROUGH THIS TYPE OF HUMILIATION. MAKE THEM WHOLE AGAIN, THATS WHAT SOLDIERS AND LEADERS DO, YOU NEVER KNOW, THAT SAME SOLDIER COULD IN TURN BE AN ADVOCATE FOR OTHER SOLDIERS. THANK YOU FOR LISTENING TO MY RESPONSE OF THIS TYPE OF ISSUE.

Response by SSG Steven Smith made Sep 14 at 2016 10:26 AM

SSG Steven Smith — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 10:26:45 -0400

Discharge

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2016 8:29 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 20:29:10 -0400

They can spend there last days in the military on extra duty and restriction.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2016 9:28 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 21:28:35 -0400

"Repeat" seems to be the operative word there. Bye bye.

Response by SSgt Jim Gilmore made Sep 15 at 2016 6:43 AM

SSgt Jim Gilmore — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 06:43:30 -0400

The member should be tried at Court Martial. If convicted, placed into a mandated or forced substance abuse program and confined for the duration of the program and be given a Big Chicken Dinner (BCD).

Response by SGT Chris Howe made Sep 15 at 2016 4:00 PM

SGT Chris Howe — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 16:00:22 -0400

Soldiers should not be treated any differently legally than anyone else just because of the career they chose. I have worked in and with military law enforcement for well over 20 years now and this has always been an issue. NJP is crap. Outside the fence line people are processed through the JUDICIAL system for all criminal acts. Now these things may not be prosecuted in court due to plea deals and such, but they go through a judicial process. I'm sorry, but an infantry CPT doesn't know a damn thing about the law and allows things to go because the Soldiers NCO says a he's a good troop. He has a 300 PT score, fires expert on all assigned weapons, he can't possibly be a wife beater or a habitual DUI. As an evidence custodian it would make me absolutely livid seeing commander's actions returned stating no action taken due to lack of evidence, however at no time did I ever get a request for evidence. It has bothered me for years. The UCMJ has its purposes in cases that are military specific such as AWOL or disrespect or dereliction. It has a role in an overseas environment. NJP has a role in cases where law enforcement has been involved. But all cases involving LE and an arrest or apprehension should be required to go through the military JUDICIAL system not NJP. in the end sentencing can be lightened, but it ensures that that crime goes on the individual's record. Case in point, I know of a cas where the female service member stabbed her husband during a DV assault. Because she was already being chapters, the chain of command did nothing. Six months later I went to pick my 3 year daughter up from day care and guess who was working there. When these cases don't go through the judicial system, they don't get reported outside the fence line and things like this occur. People with multiple DV cases against them get NJPd instead of court-martialedwhich means no DV convictions, which Lautenberg doesn't apply and they continue on in the military with access to firearms, they continue to purchase guns, they get out and go into Law Enforcement or security positions with guns. They get jobs dealing with kids and such because an infantry CPT has no understanding or care beyond he's a good troop I the foxhole or it's easier to just kick them out then it is no longer our problem. No, now it is the problem of the rest of society.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2016 9:00 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 21:00:31 -0400

Promote ahead of peers.

Sarcasm.

After strike one said individual should be on the way out the door with a bad conduct discharge.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2016 4:50 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 16:50:47 -0400

It sounds like this individual has a serious problem and I wonder why he wasn't sent to be evaluated for alcoholism or binge drinking treatment? After the third time before a discharge, he absolutely needs to be evaluated. This is a person who will end up homeless, dead or killing someone else without intervention and knowingly discharging him for multiple alcohol offenses without providing an avenue for treatment means that if anyone gets killed due to his actions upon discharge, a good attorney will access his complete history including military history, and the US Government will be sued for negligence. Somewhere in this story, a large piece is missing. Though the conspiracy theorist in me recently saw a commander do everything in his power to stop a medical board on a individual who was raped and had surgery because he did not believe she was raped and didn't think she deserved VA benefits. Due to his perception of the rape case and a false statement that she made under 12 hours of interrogation, he wanted her to be less than honorably discharged and being medically boarded ruined his discharge plans so it could be the same thing which will ultimately backfire if someone is killed. Court Martial, they are discharging him so it is likely a mute point. Now keep in mind I am also medical with some legal training so I see things a little differently than most. We also have to keep in mind public safety and perception especially in these days of homeless veterans and insufficient VA medical care.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Sep 17 at 2016 5:31 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 17:31:00 -0400

Like Highlander if some of you are old enough to remember there can only be one; not multiple DUIs. After the first one some SMs in the Army get a second chance but not very many do nowadays. Getting a DUI in the Army is a good way to getting out of the Army to include officers.

Response by ENS Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2016 11:21 PM

ENS Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 23:21:13 -0400

I'd like to know your take on this situation. Should this young SM be "dropped off at the blue line" or is there more we should do before discharge? From a Senior Officer's perspective, how do you handle someone who has "given up" on doing the right thing and doesn't "want" help?

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2016 1:05 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 13:05:59 -0400

The CC could consider ordering the accused into pre trial confinement and taking him to a court martial. They could also consider ordering the accused not to drive and to stay on base as a less restrictive means of restraint. If the service member violates those orders then the case has become ripe for court. This is obviously someone who needs help but that doesn't alleviate him of his responsibility.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Jun 9 at 2017 11:49 AM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Fri, 09 Jun 2017 11:49:16 -0400

I'm not sure what else can be done in this case. Perhaps expedite the discharge. Alternatively, the service member clearly violated or disregarded a lawful order about leaving the installation. Maybe a Court Martial to further punish or jail the service member before discharge under less than honorable conditions.

There's a big question here: why wasn't this service member required to receive treatment for alcoholism or drug abuse? This is a real disease that can be treated. With effective treatment the service member might be rehabilitated before release for active service. He or she might even be rehabilitated to the extent they could continue to serve honorably to the end of their enlistment or more. Perhaps we don't have the full story to start with.