How should we deal with an ROTC Cadet committing Stolen Valor?

Chris Grimm — Thu, 12 May 2016 11:37:28 -0400

I'm a student at a decently sized college in Maryland.

This post is about a drunken kid who was wandering around the local bars telling everyone is a 2LT in the USMC who has deployed 2x to Iraq. He does this pretty regularly unfortunately. He is actually a CDT in the schools Army ROTC program. He is making an ass of himself and making the program look bad.

How do I handle this? Simply call him out next time? Report to Cadre?

As far as I know, no other CDTs are aware he is doing this, and neither is the Cadre, or they'd hop on him faster than thought. Thanks in advance for advice everyone.

And before anyone says it - yes, I appreciate the irony in a CDT managing to commit Stolen Valor. What also blows my mind is his claiming to be a Marine officer while training to become and Army officer.

Response by SGT David T. made May 12 at 2016 11:44 AM

SGT David T. — Thu, 12 May 2016 11:44:28 -0400

My usual policy is to do nothing. Things have a way of working out in the end. I don't see a need to "out" someone. Mainly because I don't care enough to risk an explosive confrontation over something that does not impact my life one bit. But each until their own.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2016 11:49 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 May 2016 11:49:28 -0400

Report to Cadre, simple as that. I don't think there's more you could do besides calling him out on it

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2016 11:51 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 May 2016 11:51:49 -0400

Call him out if you'd like, but simply saying you've done things you haven't isn't protected under the Stolen Valor act. That law was passed to punish people who wear medals they didn't earn, or make false claims of service with the "intent to obtain money, property, or other tangible benefits" (such as a VA Loan, or veterans discount at a store).

That said, if he is a Cadet and is truly lying about his service, there can be repercussions by ROTC for breach of integrity... however, IMO if you make a fool out of him in front of his friends, he'll learn a much more valuable lesson about humility. Make sure you're correct in your accusations; although he may not be an LT yet, he may be prior enlisted and could well have deployed multiple times.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2016 12:00 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 May 2016 12:00:16 -0400

Notify the PMS immediately

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made May 12 at 2016 12:17 PM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Thu, 12 May 2016 12:17:10 -0400

I would let his cadre know. Also not being able to control oneself around alcohol should be addressed for this individual as well.

Response by SSG Vik Polivka made May 12 at 2016 12:18 PM

SSG Vik Polivka — Thu, 12 May 2016 12:18:48 -0400

Step 1: Trust, but verify. Should there be an instance of false claims, proceed to step 2.

Step 2: Throat punch.

Response by MAJ Keira Brennan made May 12 at 2016 12:29 PM

MAJ Keira Brennan — Thu, 12 May 2016 12:29:26 -0400

Chris - I like the take a video suggestion, but lets remember the types of military authority: there is specified, directed and implied authority. If a 1SG say a LT looking like a ragbag or just being stupid, they have a duty to call them out - based on their authority (with appropriate deference to rank). I don't see it any different if a cadet calls out a peer, a MSI or MSIV. CALL THEM OUT.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2016 12:30 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 May 2016 12:30:28 -0400

Spank him. He is a child.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made May 12 at 2016 12:37 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Thu, 12 May 2016 12:37:51 -0400

Son, you're getting some hopefully tongue in cheek advise from some but being a student you don't want to become the problem. So privately reporting to Cadre or other proper authority is best. They will either deal or not deal with it. Don't pester them about it. If the authority is worth their salt, they'll figure out a way to catch him in the act. You have enough on your plate as is without taking this on as a personal cause.

BTW many schools have a code of conduct that governs behavior off campus as well. The Cadre would likely coordinate any action with the school as well if appropriate.

It's like football; three things can happen and two of them are bad. Good luck.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2016 12:47 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 May 2016 12:47:34 -0400

blanket party...no seriously, blanket party...lol...ask him how he can be a 2nd LT when they automatically pick up 1st LT in 18 months. He must have been an OCS, TBS waiver.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made May 12 at 2016 1:15 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Thu, 12 May 2016 13:15:45 -0400

Civilian | Potential Recruit
1st I'd suggest you tread lightly, before making wildly unfounded accusations that may or not be true.
2nd, how about sliding up next to the cadet and asking him if he was a Marine LT directly.. what unit, when?
You're thinking of serving and want to know more.
If your concerns are not allayed, go by the ROTC building and meet up with the young man in front of his peers or leaders, ask if he is the Marine LT you met in the bar the other night? Cool I wanted to ask some more questions..
None of that is accusatory your just asking him to share his experience based on what he said to you..... if there is none to share, the issue will likely resolve itself. Without you accusing, "calling out" or doing anything but asking about things he stated.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made May 12 at 2016 2:36 PM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Thu, 12 May 2016 14:36:27 -0400

I would definitely make his superiors aware of the behavior. You can try and call him out all you like, but if he's acting like a drunken fool, he's not going to listen to you anyways. At least if his superiors know, they can preserve the integrity of their image.

This goes far deeper than just pretending to be something he's not. He might not believe in the group he's signed up with. He might be looking for an easy out. If his superiors know, they can remind him of everything they stand for and set him on the right path or they can kick him out and wash their hands of him.

Either way, it's not your call to make what happens to him. He's made his choices and as an adult he'll have to live with the consequences. He may be lacking in the maturity department, so he could need a little tough love as well.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2016 2:56 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 May 2016 14:56:28 -0400

Oh let the cadre know. They should fix him in no time.

Response by 2d Lt Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2016 3:13 PM

2d Lt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 May 2016 15:13:01 -0400

If he is a cadet, this can be grounds for dismissal from the program. One of our Core Values is Integrity. That alone they can kick him out. http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/military/2015/10/27/ssgt-expelled-from-ots-over-purple-heart-claims/74618464/

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2016 3:21 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 May 2016 15:21:24 -0400

Oh that happens very often even on Active Duty. An E-4 in from Fort Bragg (he showed me his CAC and not knowing I was also in the Army) told me he was Delta Forces, Ranger, and on a secret mission. I couldn't stop laughing and he walked away fully embarrassed.

So answer to your question: just call him out in front of the girl he tries to impress next time and laugh at him while doing it. I bet he won't do it again ;)

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made May 12 at 2016 3:56 PM

COL Jean (John) F. B. — Thu, 12 May 2016 15:56:28 -0400

Chris Grimm Two options: (1) Confront him and tell him to stop or you will report it or (2) by-pass trying to be a "friend" and simply report it to the ROTC cadre. The ROTC cadre should be able to get his attention and make him stop (or make him suffer the consequences).

Response by CPT Joseph K Murdock made May 12 at 2016 4:57 PM

CPT Joseph K Murdock — Thu, 12 May 2016 16:57:58 -0400

CDT? I don't know all the acronyms.

Response by CPT Joseph K Murdock made May 12 at 2016 5:06 PM

CPT Joseph K Murdock — Thu, 12 May 2016 17:06:38 -0400

Ask yourself if his values will improve or not over time in during his career?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2016 5:59 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 May 2016 17:59:32 -0400

I would definitely report that to his cadre. Though you might want to bring some evidence with you.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made May 12 at 2016 6:47 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Thu, 12 May 2016 18:47:18 -0400

is this a matter of some drunk kid talking smack or a pattern of behavior?

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made May 12 at 2016 10:25 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Thu, 12 May 2016 22:25:49 -0400

I still have trouble with that Term "Stolen Valor". Who did he steal it from me? Nope, doesn't hurt me a bit if he makes a JackAss out of Himself. He didn't steal it from you did he? Now if he is using it for Monetary Gain that is another matter and that is called Fraud.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2016 11:36 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 May 2016 23:36:21 -0400

I'd report him. I don't need a dirtbag joining my officer corps. If he does that as a ca-dot, what's he going to do as a real 2Lt? Gross.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2016 9:32 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 May 2016 21:32:27 -0400

I would report him to the school cadre, this person lacks integrity and does not need to become an Officer in our Armed Forces.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2016 10:32 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 20 May 2016 22:32:10 -0400

Been there done that, met that kid before in past life.

I would report it to the cadre as others mentioned. That at least gets it on their radar. At some point he will slip up in front of the wrong people. He is probably a mediocre cadet and student and will self destruct at some point.

When I was a student/cadet we had a kid tell someone that he was an F-16 Pilot in public. The funny thing is that he actually said it in earshot of an actual AF pilot. He got pulled aside and got a verbal thrashing from the guy. This was almost 20 years ago before the whole stolen valor or impersonation thing became a notable issue.

I believe we reported him to our cadre. They could not legally do anything to him unless they had proof other than us. If my memory serves right, at the end of his second semester I believe our commandant of cadets advised him not to come back the next year. Of course he was a mediocre cadet and a barley average student just scraping by. He was one these hotshot high school JROTC "Senior Leaders," who thought he knew everything about leadership. He had a "too cool for school "attitude. He was a real piece... Three years later ran into the kid working at a Wal-Mart or a hardware store or some entry level job type of place. He felt compelled to tell me that he quit ROTC to do something more challenging like becoming some sort of special operator and that was medically discharged for something. So his fantasies lived on.

Point is these people are their own worst enemy, they sort of live life walking in their own mine field.

Response by COL Jeff Williams made May 23 at 2016 12:48 AM

COL Jeff Williams — Mon, 23 May 2016 00:48:30 -0400

Call him out on it. Then drag his ass to the closest VA hospital or Wounded Warrior group, and have him tell those people about his "deployments"

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2016 6:39 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 May 2016 18:39:44 -0400

Mr. Grimm

As an ROTC CDT myself with Prior Service I am very disappointed that a CDT is making an absolute fool of himself disgracing the Army and ROTC. I believe that he needs to be brought back to reality and realize what mistake he is making in claiming to be a deployed Junior Officer. Find out who he is and report it discretely to his APMS(Assistant Professor of Military Science) or depending who he is to a Senior CDT within his chain of command. They are identified by the DOTS used as rank identifying them as CDT Officers. Terribly sorry to hear one of my own is being a turd muffin.

Very respectfully,

CDT A.

Response by SGT David Petree made Sep 7 at 2017 2:57 PM

SGT David Petree — Thu, 07 Sep 2017 14:57:01 -0400

If you can get a video of it. then turn it over to the Cadre . let them handle it . for me it`s like cheating on a test . that I'm not found of drunks .

Response by SSG Joseph VanDyck made Sep 8 at 2017 4:06 PM

SSG Joseph VanDyck — Fri, 08 Sep 2017 16:06:11 -0400

1) Turn him in to cadre, make sure you have proof though.
2) If that doesn't work, throat punch is good.
He doesn't deserve to be in the military, let alone an officer.

Response by COL William Oseles made Sep 8 at 2017 4:57 PM

COL William Oseles — Fri, 08 Sep 2017 16:57:19 -0400

Only one question for the young man, Can you show me your 214?

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2017 5:34 PM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Sep 2017 17:34:55 -0400

The closest my cadet friends get to stolen valor is we joke amongst ourselves about going on an AD deployment (through CULP). We also whisper stolen valor to any kids wearing camo stuff around school.

I would definitely sit this fellow of yours down for a nice chat and tell him to unfuck himself. Personally, I'd see if he makes these claims again and then report officially, but I don't know what regulation would demand.

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Sep 8 at 2017 10:01 PM

Cpl Rc Layne — Fri, 08 Sep 2017 22:01:04 -0400

Report him and move on.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 9 at 2017 4:03 PM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Sep 2017 16:03:54 -0400

Article 15

Response by LTC Russ Smith made Sep 10 at 2017 7:01 AM

LTC Russ Smith — Sun, 10 Sep 2017 07:01:45 -0400

Tell the cadre asap. Hopefully he will never be commissioned.

Response by MAJ Ron Peery made Nov 3 at 2019 6:25 PM

MAJ Ron Peery — Sun, 03 Nov 2019 18:25:37 -0500

Report to cadre. Let the PMS handle it. Or just let him go on making a fool of himself. Most likely, his audience is smart enough to figure out that he's full of something other than beer.

Response by COL William Oseles made Nov 3 at 2019 6:54 PM

COL William Oseles — Sun, 03 Nov 2019 18:54:00 -0500

First, is he prior service?
If not, instead of going to the PMSL you may want to discuss your concerns about him going around drinking in uniform, don't have to mention that he was drunk or bragging about being a combat vet.

Response by CPT Tom Monahan made Nov 3 at 2019 7:12 PM

CPT Tom Monahan — Sun, 03 Nov 2019 19:12:57 -0500

Report him to you Cadet
CoC and Cadre. First off, he maybe, but doubtful, telling the truth. I don’t know if the Marines have done any battlefield commissions. Remember, 1LT Audi Murphy was going to be a West Point Cadet, but his wounds made him ineligible. He may be an MS 1 or 2 and nothing can be done but ruin his chance to become a MS 3. If he is a MS 3 or 4 he may counseled up to kicked out of ROTC and entering service as A PVT or PFC.

Response by PO1 Randy Horelica made Nov 3 at 2019 7:22 PM

PO1 Randy Horelica — Sun, 03 Nov 2019 19:22:55 -0500

He is violating ethics and the honor code and could be booted from the program. The code states you must report misbehavior to your chain of command.

Response by SSG Matthew Koehler made Nov 4 at 2019 12:20 AM

SSG Matthew Koehler — Mon, 04 Nov 2019 00:20:00 -0500

Video tape the "act" and report it to ROTC Cadre in person.

Response by LTC Russ Smith made Nov 4 at 2019 2:03 AM

LTC Russ Smith — Mon, 04 Nov 2019 02:03:38 -0500

Visit the Professor Military Science. It's usually a Lieutenant Colonel. This kid should be bounced from the program asap.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Nov 19 at 2021 10:17 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Fri, 19 Nov 2021 22:17:53 -0500

I would start a log of his indiscretions and go to the cadre. He has to know this is serious business.

Response by Sgt Eduardo Mendez made Nov 20 at 2021 2:09 AM

Sgt Eduardo Mendez — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 02:09:21 -0500

Anecdotally speaking I had a colleague who was thrown out of the Navy Preparatory School during BOOST she was a Sergeant in the Marine Corps who by just mere question of an integrity violation was banned pretty much forever from the Officer Corps, her only avenue into the Officer Corps after just the question of an integrity violation was through the Warrant Officer Selection process and even that was a long shot. Now Integrity is one of the Marine Corps Leadership Traits, so a Liar is Liar is a Liar, Courage is also a Marine Corps Leadership Trait, so grab up some courage and do the right thing, follow your instinct and intuition this will be a key in your leadership as you grow if you decide to make the Armed Service a career or a stepping stone, and in closing Do the Right Thing Even When no one is Looking, I can assure you the Corps or any of the armed services needs no more liars in their ranks either enlisted or Commissioned. Courage is a key leadership trait start practicing now! You will be a good leader for it. Semper Fidelis!

Response by SP5 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 20 at 2021 2:58 PM

SP5 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 14:58:31 -0500

I would inform him that integrity and honor is just about everything in the military. You are dismissed!

Response by MAJ Steve Warnerski made Nov 1 at 2022 11:42 AM

MAJ Steve Warnerski — Tue, 01 Nov 2022 11:42:33 -0400

Let the OIC of the ROTC Department know...in person, OR anonymously. And do all you can to make the POS life miserable.