How to differentiate personnel's rank during PT? Choice #2 worked amazingly in Hawaii.

2015-03-17T05:44:25-04:00

Personally, I think that the different color belts are a much better idea that way you can avoid an unneeded sharp complaint. (some people are petty like that)

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Mar 17 at 2015 6:53 AM

2015-03-17T06:53:23-04:00

What does Sexual Harassment Response and Prevention have to do with rank? But besides that..

May I ask.. what issue are you trying to solve by having a special visible designator (besides the very easy one of the leader leading) announce rank?
Keep in mind, it's not the Senior ranking person most are going to want to talk with in a group formation, but the LEADER.

Leaders are the ones leading PT, and or the ones that come sheepishly out of formation (or not found at all sometimes) when you ask the group who is in charge,,, it really is very simple.

"Goodmorning Soldiers.... my name is SGM Marquez... are YOU in charge of this formation?"

1/2 sec later if I guessed wrong at who was leading the formation, all eyes turned to the guilty party and they run (walk, slink) over.
No special designation needed..

This has worked surprisingly well for real leaders 1LT to 2 star, SGT to CSM.. I've seen it in action many times as well as done so myself.
Now that pretend leader that really does not want to be a leader, just a loudmouth.. yes, they prefer to zero in in sneak attack on to a person they out rank and just berate them... leading, training, modifying bad behaviour is not their intent.. Just being an ass. And I really care not to cater to them.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2015 8:04 AM

2015-03-17T08:04:33-04:00

The P.T. belt is way out of control. I loved when we went from the shoot me F*#k me vests to the P.T. belt but, I am starting to miss the vest now. I swear I have every color of P.T. belt made and I count it as pro gear when I PCS. The other services laugh at us for "color coding" and putting our rank on our P.T. belt and I don't blame them, it's ridiculous.

I do however like the fact that everyone in the division formation can see the officers and NCOs that fall out of the division runs. That almost makes it worth it...almost.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Mar 17 at 2015 8:11 AM

2015-03-17T08:11:10-04:00

Where is the other option? Why do it at all? Should Soliders know who the Sr Leaders in their own unit are without having to need to look at a color belt or a tiny rank square?

What did the Soldiers do for decades before people started doing this silliness? That is right...KNOW your troops and know your leaders.

As for the reflective part, isn't the lettering on the shirts reflective anyway?

Response by SPC Christopher Smith made Mar 17 at 2015 8:33 AM

2015-03-17T08:33:17-04:00

My understanding of PT was everyone is reduced to an equal point so everyone takes commands from whomever is leading PT. If 1SG is doing his push-ups wrong, and PV2 Sandwich is leading, he is to correct the problem without fear that the person he is speaking to outranks him. So far I've seen in the two units I've been to, many E-4 and below leading PT and making corrections without hesitation and no one getting upset because their proper title wasn't used.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2015 8:46 AM

2015-03-17T08:46:24-04:00

When I was a young troop (PFC) in Fort Hood, the III Corp CSM (CSM Neil Ciotola, now retired) used to run around with SGT Ciotola on his reflective vest, and when correcting people, most of them would brush him off because he was just an E-5. This, of course, would be horrible for that individual.

It is all about situational awareness, knowing who you are speaking to, and using tact when applicable. If somebody calls you out, know what is going on. If you as a leader are planning on putting a Soldier in charge of PT, make sure they a) have a plan, and b) can brief the plan to a higher ranking person when necessary.

Having rank on a reflective belt is, in my opinion, stupid. PT time is designated for PT time and you should be so busy doing so that saluting an officer is the last thing on your to-do list. Also, is a E-7 or above is using that time to go around spot-checking to ensure everyone is doing the right thing:
a) you should know that individual because that means they are in your unit/Chain of Command.
b) they are cussing you out because you aren't doing the right thing and a "parade rest" is implied at that point in time.
c) a simple introduction would take 10 seconds tops and shouldn't insult them.
OR
d) (with all due respect) they should be doing PT at that time, too. At that juncture, they are interrupting your session for no real reason.

Customs and Courtesies are a time-honored tradition, but it does have it's time and place. Whilst conducting unit level Physical Training, in my opinion, is not one of them because it takes away from what time you have to exercise. If I am doing circuit training with my Soldiers, and my CSM/1SG/Commander (at any level) wants to join, I will not stop what I am doing, but still give them their respective greeting, and invite them to join. If somebody I do not recognize is just gawking for no reason, I will simply ask them if I may help them.

It all comes down to TACT. Rank demands respect, yes, but that doesn't mean treat everyone who doesn't outrank you like shit just because.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Mar 17 at 2015 9:05 AM

2015-03-17T09:05:44-04:00

How big are your units that you don't know people's ranks?

In in doubt, say Sir or Sgt. There's only 1 officer per Plt, 5 per company, and the old guy is either a 1SG or a SGM.

Or do like we do in the Corps "Hey Marine!"

Response by SSG Christopher Freeman made Mar 17 at 2015 9:47 AM

2015-03-17T09:47:44-04:00

My first unit had the separate colors to separate who was what. They also looked into something for senior leadership such as BN commanders and CSMs.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2015 10:51 AM

2015-03-17T10:51:03-04:00

WHY?

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2015 11:04 AM

2015-03-17T11:04:16-04:00

Don't see why either matter other than to call out those that fall out. If you don't know what you supervisor, Commander or First Sgt look like then I believe there are much bigger issues than a belt.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2015 12:07 PM

2015-03-17T12:07:04-04:00

How about neither?

I am doing PT to do PT. When in a squad platoon or company, everyone in that formation knew the ranks of the leaders. For every confrontation I have ever observed during PT, it was from one person outide the unit of the other. An introduction was always involved but more importantly, rank was never the issue -- one person was doing something not correct (or in a unit doing something not correct) and the other person (leader) was making a correction. Rank was an accessory to the entire situation.

Some may wear rank because it makes them feel good about themselves. My CSM told me that if I can salute and have a retort to every solider that ran by, then I wasn't doing hard enough PT.

If someone in my unit saw me doing PT, I would expect them to say, "Good morning, sir" when recognized and they should expect I will greet them as well (any NCO want to help educate the masses on the real origin of the salute...unarmed, not a nod to rank or position).

We differentiate in cases like this but we are not sincere about the reasons. Lack of sincerity is one of the main themes in the recent study on us being dishonest as a force.

Let it go. If for an hour and half of your day you are not given a nod because you have rank, it'll be okay. If you are a junior soldier, don't be disrespectful and play dumb.

Do harder PT!

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2015 12:41 PM

2015-03-17T12:41:48-04:00

I say you need another color: Brown....for all Warrant Officers. That way we can recognize each other and run together.

Response by SGT Jim Z. made Mar 17 at 2015 12:59 PM

2015-03-17T12:59:24-04:00

I guess this is something fairly new because I never had to worry about rank during PT, I mean if we missed a salute because it was dark or we were engaged in PT then so be it. I also knew who my chain of command looked like.

Response by MSG David Chappell made Mar 17 at 2015 12:59 PM

2015-03-17T12:59:31-04:00

The PT belts are completely out of control as it is (we just need a PT uniform that has reflective material on it to avoid this oh wait we already have that) The answer is we don't need to know rank just maintain professionalism. Who cares if it's a sergeant major or a first lieutenant if you maintain yourself in a professional manner when making a correction there shouldn't be an issue as it is

Response by PO2 Pualani Ralph made Mar 17 at 2015 1:03 PM

2015-03-17T13:03:33-04:00

I say belt only because then it would be universal across the services. I know in the Army you can get away with calling a SSG "Sarge" but in the Marines I am sure you would get "knocked out". And in the Navy you wouldn't want to call a Senior Chief "Petty Officer". If the rank was on the belt or on the uniform itself then you wouldn't have that simple mistake.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Mar 17 at 2015 1:49 PM

2015-03-17T13:49:41-04:00

I know in TRADOC everyone wears vests, with white name tapes sewn on with rank and name.

My question is why do need our rank on the vest, belt, etc?

Until I showed up on TRADOC post in 2003, (1980-2003), no one worried about who was what rank at PT? I figured in TRADOC, it was so you could tell who the Drill Sergeants were, and the Cadre, then all the other units and courses started...

I say we don't need rank for PT. Folks in your unit know who you are.

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Mar 17 at 2015 1:56 PM

2015-03-17T13:56:23-04:00

Who cares? PT should not be a situation that is distracted by rank.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Mar 17 at 2015 2:07 PM

2015-03-17T14:07:36-04:00

Colors system seems to work well here on Drum..

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Mar 17 at 2015 2:47 PM

2015-03-17T14:47:07-04:00

Ft Bliss does the color system with the addition of pin on rank on th belt.

Response by Maj Chris Nelson made Mar 17 at 2015 3:17 PM

2015-03-17T15:17:43-04:00

Such a pity... I am not able to vote on either of these choices.... The Air Force Base that I am at has now stated that the disco belt is not a requirement. I don't wear one in any color now!

Response by CSM David Heidke made Mar 17 at 2015 3:54 PM

2015-03-17T15:54:02-04:00

They do the different colors at Fort Drum, it's in the post SOP

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2015 5:42 PM

2015-03-17T17:42:30-04:00

you can't go wrong with Sir Ma'am or shipmate (or equivalent) just be polite and be respectful and if someone gets offended well they deserve to be offended

Response by SGT Kristin Wiley made Mar 17 at 2015 5:57 PM

2015-03-17T17:57:22-04:00

Just reviewed AR 670-1 and DA PAM 670-1. There is no mention of being authorized to wear rank in either the APFU or IPFU. The only authorized insignia with this uniform is the physical fitness badge. I also strongly believe rank should not be worn in the PT uniform as it creates segregation amongst soldiers. It many cases, I feel like this would subject junior soldiers to harassment, and undermine the authority of leaders who are 'under-performing' during PT.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2015 6:06 PM

2015-03-17T18:06:10-04:00

Makes sense to me.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Mar 17 at 2015 7:08 PM

2015-03-17T19:08:55-04:00

This is a solution looking for a problem. Don't do it.

Response by CAPT Stu Merrill made Mar 17 at 2015 7:11 PM

2015-03-17T19:11:38-04:00

Here's a silly question. During PT do we need to differentiate rank? Just asking...

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Mar 17 at 2015 8:44 PM

2015-03-17T20:44:28-04:00

One PT belt for junior enlisted. Two PT belts for NCO's. 3 PT belts for Warrant Officers. 4 PT belts for Company Grade Officers. 5 PT belts for Senior Oficers. 6 PT belts for GO's.
The more you vote me down, the stronger I will become. "Let the hate flow through you." (LOL)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Avn2nT16FA

The Emperor - 'Let the hate flow through you'

Encouragements à Luke Skywalker

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Mar 17 at 2015 9:05 PM

2015-03-17T21:05:07-04:00

Just to contrast how little of an issue this is for the AF. They are just called reflective belts (sometimes disco) and most often wore in ABU's on the flight line or some bases in hours of darkness. Our PT gear has reflective material built in so no need of a reflective belt there.

Treat everyone like a grown up and possibly outranks you, be polite and professional and there is no problems. No need for a color chart or squinting at a tiny rank insignia. /rant

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2015 9:54 PM

2015-03-17T21:54:46-04:00

We used the color system in 10th Mountain. It worked well.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2015 10:08 PM

2015-03-17T22:08:08-04:00

I wonder how the Army got along at PT before PT belts? Was there bloodshed? Mass hysteria? Chaos?

No....no, there wasnt. We survived.

Just get rid of it. It doesn't save lives. Its just another thing to buy and keep up with.

We had an IPFU that was REFLECTIVE.... apparently that wasn't good enough.
Or...it just made entirely too much sense and we just had to Army that all to death.

Response by SPC Lukas Jones made Mar 17 at 2015 11:55 PM

2015-03-17T23:55:26-04:00

I am all for respecting rank and rendering the proper honors; however I was always thought you don't have to render such honors when it interferes with your duties. On the PT Field, you are there to PT, not go to parade rest/position of attention when a NCO/Officer enters the PT area!

Let's get back to focusing on the real problem: soldiers not passing PT tests

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2015 11:56 PM

2015-03-17T23:56:20-04:00

I have two thoughts:
1) Soldiers should know who the "important" folks are whether in a PT uniform or not. I remember as a young Private being drilled on chain of command with photos...is this no longer a thing?

2) Some NCOs and Officers need to get over themselves for a few hours a day. If they are doing what they are supposed to be doing (PT), they aren't worried about who is addressing them or greeting them any way. If the need arises for an on the spot correction, the senior person should introduce themselves so the junior person knows the appropriate manner in which they should be conducting themselves.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2015 12:21 AM

2015-03-18T00:21:32-04:00

Not understanding. Why is rank a factor in PT? Where does SHARP come in?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2015 3:49 AM

2015-03-18T03:49:12-04:00

Common Sense and Professionalism coupled with the fact you normally conduct PT as a unit should make the difference in rank only as difficult as your memory.

Response by SSG Regina Golding made Mar 18 at 2015 5:12 AM

2015-03-18T05:12:57-04:00

When I left Fort Drum they were starting the different color PT belts, E-1 - E-4 wore yellow, NCOs wore green, and officers wore blue. I liked that idea.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Mar 18 at 2015 5:14 AM

2015-03-18T05:14:13-04:00

3, If you have leisure to worry about whether people know your rank during PT then A you're not working hard enough B you're not getting around enough when in uniform or C both.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Mar 18 at 2015 9:07 AM

2015-03-18T09:07:56-04:00

I vote we put Velcro Patches on the v2 of the PT uniform. We'll place them in the same configuration as the combat uniform, that way if you need unit patches, slap them on. If you need name tapes, slap them on. Want to remember you jumped out of an airplane? Slap on a patch!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2015 9:58 AM

2015-03-18T09:58:00-04:00

Eh? Why would you care about the rank of someone you are running past on the road or doing flutter kicks next to? Unless it's the BC or CG (give a salute and drive on) then just concentrate on your workout.

Response by CSM Christopher St. Cyr made Mar 18 at 2015 3:40 PM

2015-03-18T15:40:27-04:00

After a couple decades in the Army, I've come to realize that those who need to know your in charge, seniors and subordinates, know. Those who don't need to know don't care unless you screwed up something. One should ALWAYS treat others respectfully regardless of rank; one of the Army's values, so what difference does it make? I promise you that if you stand back and watch a unit for a few minutes you can figure out who the leaders are. I probably doesn't take long to determine which of those leaders are the commissioned and non-commissioned officers.

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Mar 18 at 2015 7:19 PM

2015-03-18T19:19:02-04:00

Obviously color coordinate, something like:

Green for enlisted
Yellow for WO
Blue for Officers

Then from there you wear one belt per each rank. Therefore I would be wearing three blue PT belts.

Response by PO2 Corey Ferretti made Mar 18 at 2015 7:59 PM

2015-03-18T19:59:51-04:00

So since you only had two choices i chose the second one. I guess Battalion must be small because for the most part you know the rank of the SM in your company. And for the most part alot of the E7 and above through the Battalion. But my question is what does rank have to do with PT? Also what does a Sharp complaint and PT have in common? they should not even go together in my mind i can say in my 10 years of PT i did not hit on one female or see a friend hit on one.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2015 8:04 PM

2015-03-18T20:04:56-04:00

Ft. Bliss uses a combination of these two techniques, color coded with rank pinned on worked out very well. On a big installation there are bound to be a lot of people conducting "pt on their own" on the approved run routes, or at the gym. Upon implementation units were given an initial push of the colored belts based on MTOE which were issued out. Too easy.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2015 8:11 PM

2015-03-18T20:11:52-04:00

Question to a question. Why should it matter? If you are doing unit PT and no one knows who the leaders are, I say we have a problem. When I was a LCpl I knew who my NCOS, SNCOS and officers were. When I was an officer I knew who my Marines were.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2015 10:33 PM

2015-03-18T22:33:01-04:00

My first drill as a Commander was an SRP, which meant we all reported to the SRP site in the IPFU. I was the XO for over a year prior to taking command, so most of the men in the unit knew me already. I had one of my new PVTs come up to me at SRP and ask me what the senior leadership was like. He may or may not have made some comments about his Squad leader. I had to laugh a little bit when my 1SG came up and the PVT realized who he was talking to.

Personally I don't see the need for rank on the IPFU. The men in your unit should know who you are. If not you've got bigger problems than what color PT belt to buy. If you need to employ rank with someone outside your formation it is very easy to introduce yourself before providing direction. If our senior leaders believe this does need to be addressed, designating a specific color of PT belt is the most common sense answer in my opinion.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2015 11:10 PM

2015-03-18T23:10:25-04:00

In Alaska we had yellow for E-4 and below, Gold for NCOs and Blue for Officers. I thought it was a great idea because it was a post wide regulation and everyone knew how to approach each belt. It saves the ass chewing, lol.

In Kuwait, we had ranks on the belts and everyone wore yellow glow belts.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2015 3:58 AM

2015-03-19T03:58:10-04:00

How about none. Rank shouldn't matter if you're doing the right thing. For the most part, everyone in the unit know each other and if they don't, mutual respect and professionalism should eliminate the need for rank identification. 25th ID does it here in Hawaii, we in 8th TSC do not and I personally don't have an issue wearing the same color belt with the newest Privates.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2015 5:35 AM

2015-03-19T05:35:38-04:00

GET RID OF REFLECTIVE BELTS!!! The reflective PT Belt is not required by Army Regulation, but it is often included in base policy or unit SOP. Why? Monkey see, monkey do? That's the way we've always done it? Are there really that many Soldiers getting hit by vehicles during company PT? Most Navy and Marine bases only require reflective wear when running on the road in small groups during the hours of dusk or darkness. The Army wants a reflective belt regardless of time of day, type of exercise, location of exercise, size of the group exercising, and even if the underlying PT uniform is reflective. Brilliant! (Frickin' stupid!)

Response by SGT Alan Sledge made Mar 19 at 2015 7:30 AM

2015-03-19T07:30:34-04:00

We've already transitioned to the different color reflective belts. My only issue is if its mandated, the unit supply should have enough to issue to all servicemembers.

Changes like this make me wonder if we're really uniformed across the board or if we're slowly but surely separating ourselves as individuals. Hmm.

Response by MAJ Chris Rice made Mar 19 at 2015 7:39 AM

2015-03-19T07:39:02-04:00

Really, you do PT as an organization, if you are on your own who cares...don't let something else distract from PT

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2015 8:31 AM

2015-03-19T08:31:05-04:00

I vote, "None of the Above"

I was just talking with my CSM recently about this. At Ft. Jackson, all Cadre wear a reflective vest with our Rank and Name to make sure the IET Soldiers know who is Cadre.

Outside of the IET environment, I don't think we need to identify rank when doing PRT. Obviously, everyone in the unit you are working out with will know who is who, and if you run into someone else outside the unit, there should be no reason to have dialog unless someone is doing something 'wrong.' For those in the Chain of Command or the NCO Support Channel should be known anyway because of the photos posted on the command boards.

When I was a new 2LT, I parked in the parking lot near where my platoon did PT, and as I got out I was being yelled at by a Soldier in PTs. He proceeded to tell me very loudly that I was parking in a CSM slot. I said, OK and moved my vehicle.
Another time, this time a 1LT, my platoon and I had run to a different area and were conducting drills when another individual came running up and started yelling that we could not do PT there. When I asked him why, he told me he was a CSM and that it didn't matter, we just had to leave. I introduced myself respectfully, and told him that we would move elsewhere, but I would like to know why. He said something like, "Sir, this in 'my' area and you need to move" but his tone was different.

Would having rank on changed anything? Probably not, but once we all knew who everyone was, we still communicated and 'fixed' the problem.
I like being anonymous in APFU!

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2015 8:39 AM

2015-03-19T08:39:03-04:00

Just PT and don't worry about it. If you're doing unit PT, then the people in the unit know who their officers and NCOs are. If you're doing individual PT, just be courteous and follow base regulations and it won't matter either way.
The whole BS reflective belt is asinine anyway. Makes my blood pressure go up just thinking about the damn things.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2015 3:46 PM

2015-03-19T15:46:46-04:00

As long as you are respectfully and professional (as you should always be) it shouldn't matter about differentiating your rank in a PT setting. I expect to receive the same common courtesy as my brethren would. When you begin putting a label on things is when you begin to target certain groups. Also you should know your people, putting on a universal PT uniform does not suddenly make them invisible. Just some random thoughts.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2015 4:11 PM

2015-03-19T16:11:15-04:00

It is really very simple. If you are in the Army and conducting PT look at the formation. Ok who's in front of it or behind it while stationary. That is going to be the person in charge. While running generally on the side or again in front. The way you learn their rank is to identify yourself. This is SFC Evans who am I speaking to and who is in charge of this formation. It's not hard when in charge be in charge. Some would argue well that person could lie. Who cares if you conduct yourself professionally the rank isn't going to matter because you treat all Soldiers with dignity and respect.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2015 6:29 PM

2015-03-19T18:29:27-04:00

I also like option #2. But, what about do as we do in BCT where we wear vests with our rank and name on a white name tape? I find that pretty easy to identify individuals rather quickly.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Mar 19 at 2015 11:52 PM

2015-03-19T23:52:02-04:00

PT belts are made from the crushed hearts of service members who were forced to medically retire.

Response by SFC Kenneth Hunnell made Mar 20 at 2015 5:34 AM

2015-03-20T05:34:05-04:00

It seems to me that during pt, everyone in the event knows each other, what is the point of colored belts

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2015 9:56 AM

2015-03-20T09:56:44-04:00

If we made a uniform by sewing together a series of PT Belts, would we still have to wear a PT Belt?

Response by SGT Frank Leonardo made Mar 20 at 2015 2:49 PM

2015-03-20T14:49:34-04:00

I would say choice #2 should work well in any unit or branch easy to tell who is who

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2015 9:38 AM

2015-03-22T09:38:35-04:00

Well for me I ware a PT vest. Yep, and had to pay for it to. Nice and yellow with rank and name pit on it. Paid for that to be on to. Guess I'm covered

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2015 12:31 AM

2015-03-23T00:31:36-04:00

At first I was inclined to go with the rank on the belt, but honestly that can be too hard to see during those early morning PT sessions, colors make sense.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2015 8:58 AM

2015-03-23T08:58:59-04:00

How about worry about getting in a good workout while wearing PTs and deal with recognition/customs and courtesies when you're in a REAL uniform? PTs don't have a rank for a reason.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2015 4:21 PM

2015-03-25T16:21:19-04:00

Air Force has a similar problem and I always interject with "Well did you introduce yourself?". New people come into a unit all the time. If you didn't take the initiative as a leader to introduce yourself to them so they knew who they were speaking to, then their PT is more important than your salute hunger.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 5:24 PM

2015-03-26T17:24:47-04:00

Why? Why is there a need to identify ranks? I am pretty sure one knows who is who during PT

Response by SSG(P) Auston Terry made Apr 1 at 2015 10:43 AM

2015-04-01T10:43:57-04:00

So we all pretty much agree the reflective belts are a useless placeholder to mitigate a risk that doesn't exist and your answer is MOAR REFLECTIVE BELTS!

Rank doesn't have a place at PT, physical effort does. And if you don't act a fool and treat people with dignity and respect their rank doesn't matter. I

Response by SSG Stacy Carter made Apr 6 at 2015 5:08 AM

2015-04-06T05:08:54-04:00

I personally think this is beyond stupid. PT time is for conducting PT now worrying about what ranks are around. I never liked all the BS during PT. Stopping training because the 1SG or Commander showed up was ridiculous. If you are conducting proper training you have nothing to worry about. Make sure you are following the training plan and that everyone is participating and doing the exercises correctly and there is no issue.

If you absolutely must have a different colour belt, do like we did at Fort Sill. Yellow for everyone except commanders, 1SGs and CSMs who wore red.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2015 2:03 AM

2015-07-28T02:03:56-04:00

some people are rude and if your rude to wrong person you can get in trouble for disrespect... even if that person was wrong... dont act like yall never seen that NCO are OFFICER.. with that chip on their shouldier that you cant tell them nothing, even if your nice about it... with out them getting loud and telling you exactly who they are... and how you should be at parade rest... but your like sorry I didnt know who you were... I rather be able to spot everyone

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2015 9:45 PM

2015-11-13T21:45:41-05:00

USARAK did yellow for joes, orange for NCOs, and blue for Officers. All because some officer didn't get saluted when he wasn't running but still in PTs. Ridiculous. Let's utilize our 5th Principle of Patrolling folks, common fucking sense.

Response by SGT Jacob McInnes made Jan 31 at 2022 1:49 PM

2022-01-31T13:49:27-05:00

If the only way you can let everyone know you’re in charge during PT is by showing off your shiney chest decoration the Army has bigger problems.

Response by Cpl Ronald Hart made Feb 4 at 2022 3:05 PM

2022-02-04T15:05:49-05:00

when I was in we ran in BOOTS-UTIL UNIFORM-some times with pack and rifle

Response by Cpl Ronald Hart made Feb 4 at 2022 3:07 PM

2022-02-04T15:07:21-05:00

when I was in we ran with boots and util. uniform-what's PT GEAR ??

Response by PO2 S.J. Carroll made Feb 4 at 2022 9:07 PM

2022-02-04T21:07:43-05:00

Is this a real practice now?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2022 10:30 PM

2022-02-04T22:30:12-05:00

Did it work amazingly, or did it make people feel good about themselves?

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Feb 5 at 2022 11:20 AM

2022-02-05T11:20:35-05:00

It’s simple, if you do not recognize you don’t salute. If asked to do so you comply. If someone makes a correction in PTs you simply comply. The possibility of confusion only occurs when you come across someone from another unit. It has worked as long as we started wearing PT uniforms. Personally don’t see the need.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2022 5:55 PM

2022-02-06T17:55:48-05:00

Why is it necessary at all?

Response by SFC Bob Coon made Feb 11 at 2022 10:24 AM

2022-02-11T10:24:52-05:00

One thing I can say is PT has become way more complex than when I was a PVT wearing my trusty old grey sweat pant style PT uniform. We had either a run day or a muscle failure day and it was either Company led or Platoon led. But I’m a dinosaur maybe things are better now….

Response by LCpl David Tatro made Feb 17 at 2022 10:00 PM

2022-02-17T22:00:04-05:00

I served in the Marines from 88 to 92. When PT was done, whether squad or company level and even battalion level, you knew who the officers were. If you didn't know them the you were Unsat. Obviously if you were PT'ing alone and saw an officer you would just greet them Good morning sir/ma'am or what have you. We didn't have belts or vests for PT. We did have road guards with reflective vests and moon beams when we ran before sun up and that was just for protection from traffic at intersections. Never understood the whole PT belt used by other branches, namely the Army. Was it for when someone fell out, you could grab them by the belt to pull them along or drag their sorry ass to the side of the road?

Response by Cpl Craig Howard made Feb 18 at 2022 4:36 PM

2022-02-18T16:36:52-05:00

We didn't worry about rank during PT. When attending PT with our unit, we know our Officers and Enlisted and respect was always shown. In individual PT, it was rarely an issue. At the Base Gym, everyone had the same goals and it was easy. Officer and Enlisted easily worked out side by side, and often spotted those who needed help. If you feel you are dealing with an Officer of superior rank, just say Sir out of respect and go about your workout. I never felt the need to address a Sgt by rank in the middle of a run.

Response by PO1 Don Uhrig made Mar 15 at 2022 11:12 AM

2022-03-15T11:12:49-04:00

As an E-4, and then E-5, I was on my Department's PFT Team at (then) Naval Air Station North Island, San Diego. Often the PT group was in the hundreds, and taking the Officers and Enlisted through the planned PT was never a problem in regards to rank. In a setting like that, out of official uniforms, you simply treat everyone with respect and encouragement through the routines. When you happen to know the higher ranks, you throw in a few 'sir's', 'ma'am's' and 'Chief's'. Color coding? Belts? Rank emblems? Those are stupid distractions to the entire purpose of physical training and could even lead to distraction based injuries.

Response by CAPT Jim Murphy made Mar 15 at 2022 5:32 PM

2022-03-15T17:32:06-04:00

Will any of this help in battle during our next confrontation with the Russian Bear?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2022 6:41 PM

2022-03-16T18:41:09-04:00

How often are you doing pt with you don’t know

Response by MGySgt Rick Tyrrell made Mar 19 at 2022 6:38 PM

2022-03-19T18:38:16-04:00

No rank is necessary since leaders already set the example and lead from the front.

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Mar 19 at 2022 7:43 PM

2022-03-19T19:43:37-04:00

You people worry about a lot of little shit. Putin is about to go nuclear. Everyone is going to glow in the dark.

Response by SMSgt Richard Horton made Apr 8 at 2022 2:02 AM

2022-04-08T02:02:42-04:00

Who cares during PT? We knew who everybody in our unit was.

Response by SFC David Pope, MBA made Apr 9 at 2022 1:18 AM

2022-04-09T01:18:55-04:00

How much time do you spend in PT gear? We never had an issue when I was in. We knew our COC, and everyone in the battalion. We didn’t have PT belts. I saw some units had iron on rank for Senior NCO’s and up.

Response by SSgt Mathew Cummings made Apr 11 at 2022 11:14 AM

2022-04-11T11:14:55-04:00

Neither. PT is PT, I think the underlying issue is how to conduct oneself. Don't act like a fool and they won't get treated as one. I would say if it is a matter where rank got involved to properly identify oneself and move forward. Unless this is a conversation related to saluting in a combat zone. Singling a rank or group of individuals out goes against PT in concept.

Response by CMDCM Tom Vinson made Apr 13 at 2022 11:20 AM

2022-04-13T11:20:22-04:00

Not being in the Army but spending a significant amount of time on Army posts in my career, I assumed (incorrectly I guess) the purpose of PT belts was for visibility day and night to avoid soldier's getting run over by vehicles. Rank put on PT belts seems a bit of overkill. Soldier's should know who is in charge of PT and formation run's...and if they don't, a little education on Chain of Command and a bit more visibility by leadership seems in order.

Personally, when I was engaged in PT on base, I said good morning to everyone and never had a problem with anyone getting upset if I didn't attach a "sir" to it. It's PT!

Response by SFC William Linnell made Apr 13 at 2022 8:26 PM

2022-04-13T20:26:39-04:00

Good evening. I for one feel that the PT belt as gone to the way o really frigging stupid. When did common sense stop being the rule of the day? Never wore reflective belts but vests when one was a road guard, other then that who in formation or running by themselves were in any danger of being run over?? Considering certain streets were blocked off with guards to prevent people from driving on said closed road.
Ft. Hood, Ft. Carson, Ft. Knox and other posts I was stationed at, we didn't wear reflection anything.
If some 1SG, CSM wanted to correct an NCO out of formation calling cadence, got pulled from his place of operation, I found that the PSG was right there to step in to address the 1SG or higher. It was never an issue. But there is always that one peckerhead.

Also, when did it become a norm for an EM getting his shot group tighten, gets the idea that they don't have to listen to you bc you, the NCO, aren't from their unit??

Response by SFC William Linnell made Apr 13 at 2022 8:29 PM

2022-04-13T20:29:23-04:00

Alibi...who was the "genius" who thought up that color scheme and make it a "Sniper Check" in the theater of combat???

Response by GySgt Marc Dickerson made Apr 14 at 2022 3:52 PM

2022-04-14T15:52:29-04:00

So the Army color codes it's personnel? HAHAHAHA !!!!! And they tease us Marines for eating crayons. At least we poop rainbows after a snack.

Response by GySgt Charles O'Connell made May 16 at 2022 7:27 AM

2022-05-16T07:27:42-04:00

Is this really a serious issue, not being able to identify officers from enlisted on the PT field? It begs the question, Is unit cohesion so poor that juniors are unable it identify seniors, and vice versa?

Response by 1SG Jason Almond made Jun 19 at 2022 11:17 PM

2022-06-19T23:17:11-04:00

I liked it better when it was all one color. You have to rely on your professionalism. But I know I’m old-school and that is gone now.

Response by SGT Timothy Posemato made Jul 14 at 2022 4:03 PM

2022-07-14T16:03:55-04:00

In the 70s there didn't seem to be a problem with rank during PT. We always did it at 5am, nobody out but our company. CO always led, 1st Sgt took up the rear, Lts were with their platoons. When we did PT there was no rank, we were all soldiers and respected each other. Worked very well that way. Jump school July 1972, PT, no rank there either, Col. Was no different than a Pvt. Worked well there too.

Response by SFC Frederick Dalton made Sep 16 at 2022 3:06 PM

2022-09-16T15:06:16-04:00

Rank on PT belts? What SGM got an “excellence” bullet for this stroke of genius? Reason #542,951 that I kiss my DD214 every day.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 19 at 2022 3:44 AM

2022-09-19T03:44:50-04:00

Pt clothing is for pt any other time you should be in ocp uniform. If you don't know your coc that's a bigger problem.

If someone mistakenly says sir or Sgt to the wrong person. That person shouldn't have an ego, just politely make the correction & move on. It's not a big deal.

The pt belt has been the biggest joke in the army since it was conceived. There's no need to make it worse.

If your unit has an sop, that's fine. It can an attention to detail thing and if something works for you, awesome run with it. But to me it's not a big deal or even a problem. Wear the thing or don't wear the thing.

Response by William Drummond made Sep 21 at 2022 10:55 AM

2022-09-21T10:55:31-04:00

I am not military, but I am an Army brat and a retired DOD employee (DFAS). I assume this refers to PT as a unit in formation and not everyone on the field doing individual routines. However, my thought applies to both.

Within a unit, every person knows who the other is. Regardless of rank, everyone wears the same PT attire for a reason. Absent a pressing need, observing formal military rank courtesies serves little purpose.

The physical fitness of the person next to you may save your life. If a PFC is next to a LTC who is using bad form, the PFC should feel empowered to suggest that "control your breathing and it gets easier," without wasting another puff by adding "sir." The young troop displayed respect by politely offering encouragement and a reminder of what they learned a year ago in basic. Or, perhaps the PFC was a personal trainer in another life. The point is if everyone treats everyone else with kindness, compassion, and respect, rank does not matter during events designed to build unit cohesiveness and stamina. The same applies to push-ups, sit-ups, or whatever else the new PT standards require. Who cares who helps who if it already comes from a place of respect? If you fail to support the soldier next to you, guess who may be next to die if that stamina is tested under combat conditions? It is in everyone's self-interest to support each other.

By the same standard, rather than deriding someone of a lower rank for not being in perfect shape only builds resentment and destroys cohesiveness. If the LTC notices the PFC is struggling, the LTC has a duty to that soldier to help them overcome the barrier. If that means the LTC and a senior NCO become temporary mentors to that soldier, they create a career soldier with a positive outlook on their service. You certainly earn genuine loyalty instead of duty bound loyalty.

Please remind those next to you to hydrate. There should be long lines to the restrooms after PT. If not, you did not hydrate sufficiently.

My two cents, feel free to tax it.

Response by SPC Vonnie Jones made Sep 21 at 2022 7:47 PM

2022-09-21T19:47:54-04:00

Wow I've really been out a long time! Rank unit on belts? Why? What you don't run with unit standard any longer? Doesn't everyone know the faces in the chain of command? I really loved pt, why make something more complicated!? Just get in formation and as the commercials say, "just do it!"

Response by MAJ Steve Daugherty made Oct 15 at 2022 12:28 PM

2022-10-15T12:28:26-04:00

When I first entered the Army, our PT uniform was Fatigue trousers, T-shirt and combat boots. They eventually let us use athletic shoes in the 80’s. But never saw a problem as each unit knew it’s own leadership

Response by SSG Todd Gregg made Oct 15 at 2022 1:30 PM

2022-10-15T13:30:24-04:00

Yellow shorts and brown shirts in the 80’s. No PT belts and I don’t recall ever having a problem with peoples rank. In a PT formation you pretty much know everyone and their rank. How hard is it?

Response by MAJ Anne McGee made Oct 18 at 2022 1:05 AM

2022-10-18T01:05:41-04:00

PT belts and vests? When I was in we didn't use these or display rank. I guess weived dangerous in the 80's & 90's, lol!

Response by SSG Michael Baney made Oct 18 at 2022 4:20 PM

2022-10-18T16:20:18-04:00

Why does anyone care?

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 18 at 2022 11:52 PM

2022-10-18T23:52:04-04:00

I was initially wondering if this was intended to be funny but realized it was a serious question. Like many before me have already stated here, a leader doesn’t hide behind chevrons or shiny crap on their collar. If you are wrong and get corrected, you accept that you screwed up, correct yourself, and move along. Has it gotten to the point where we only accept criticism or correction if it is from a senior person? Do the right thing for the right reason. In the Marine Corps, there is no rank on any of our PT gear and we have managed to be disciplined and pretty fit. Lead by example, not just when you have a rank insignia on and someone is supposed to listen to you…that makes you a weak leader. Lead by example.

Response by CSM William Payne made Oct 19 at 2022 10:36 AM

2022-10-19T10:36:05-04:00

I like the idea of color coded belts. In the Basic Combat Training environment, new Soldiers have a hard enough time keeping up with their company command structure, let alone other battalion leadership when wearing PT uniforms without rank. Ask one if they could identify their battalion commander or command sergeant major out of a police lineup and most would fail. I had a hard enough time with this and I was assigned to driving both of them around when I was in basic training. As a drill sergeant, I got a butt chewing for passing another formation on a morning PT run which just happened to have the post chief of staff running with them that morning. It was still dark and I had NO idea who he was, until I was called into the 1st Sergeant’s office. So saying that young Soldiers should know everyone in their chain of command, otherwise they were poorly trained is a zero meter accusation. Even after basic, as a young Soldier I rarely saw my CSMs and couldn’t to tell you who they were outside of studying the Chain of Command / NCO Support Channel for Soldier Appearance Boards. But then again the leadership that I had (or didn’t have), during the 70s, left a lot to be desired, one of the reasons I didn’t reenlist to stay on active duty, but that’s another story.

Response by SFC Tracy Donahoo made Oct 20 at 2022 12:47 PM

2022-10-20T12:47:11-04:00

How did we ever survive running in boots and not wearing rank?

Response by SFC David Pope, MBA made Oct 22 at 2022 1:28 PM

2022-10-22T13:28:25-04:00

Basic training is the only place that rank during PT matters. Who ever was in charge of the PT was in charge period. Everyone else is considered rank sterile! If you don’t know what rank everyone in your unit is performing PT, then you have other issues you need to work on. If I assigned one of my E-4’s to run PT, then I don’t care what rank you are, you follow the instructions. If you an officer doing PT and expect to be saluted during that work out, then you have a serious inferiority complex and have picked the wrong profession! I lead PT for HHB I Corps Artillery. We had more brass than the USC marching band. 1 BG, 4 Col, 10 Ltc, 40 Maj, 15 Capt, 2-5 Lt and over 50 E-7 and above! If you were saluting during PT the only workout would be your right arm!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2022 8:36 AM

2022-11-15T08:36:57-05:00

Wow, talk about a non issue. Back in the 90’s we didn’t worry about rank in PTs because you wore them at PT and then went home and changed. We also didn’t have reflective vests or belts unless you were a road guard.

Response by MSG Bob S made Nov 17 at 2022 9:32 AM

2022-11-17T09:32:18-05:00

Rank during PT should be irrelevant, however it’s easy to find the officers and senior NCO’s. They gaggle behind the PT formation so nobody can see that they can’t do more than 15 push-ups before hitting failure and then at that point get up and meander around correcting SM’s. I saw this happen without exception during my 24 years in units pre and post my tenure in SF

Response by MAJ Steve Warnerski made Nov 21 at 2022 10:44 AM

2022-11-21T10:44:05-05:00

Not sure how I survived 21 years in the Army - Asia Europe Africa - without ONCE wearing a stupid reflective belt OR vest. If someone is too stupid to avoid getting hit by a car...that is the Darwin Principle in effect.

Response by SPC Paul Vaneizenga made Nov 28 at 2022 8:26 AM

2022-11-28T08:26:41-05:00

I think we should combat test the different colors and see which color attracts the most sniper fire.