How to fight a chapter for APFT fail?

2018-09-26T08:23:49-04:00

I had just arrived at my first duty station when a week after inrpcessing we where sent of to JRTC In fort polk ...we did zero PT the entire time
When we had returned I was told I was taking um first APFT well I failed it and even know the grader marked it as a record my LT told me that he was going to make it a diagnostic because we had just returned and it was my first PT test
Well about a month later I had just gotten of profile for about 2 weeks and was told I was taking another one I failed my run by 11 seconds
I just signed (disagreed) on a counciling for recommendation for chapter ...how can I fight this???

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2018 9:31 AM

2018-09-26T09:31:40-04:00

Were you counseled on a 4856 after failing the first APFT that stated you had up to 90 days to retake an APFT? Were you counseled by the commander on a 4856 that you would be retaking an APFT and you agreed that you were ready to retake before the 90 days expired? If the answer is no to either of those questions, legal should tell commander it was conducted improperly.
Also, signing "I DISAGREE" does not really mean anything. It's like signing for a speeding ticket. You're still getting counseled. Only way that helps if it something needs to be investigated it will raise questions that could help you.
I suggest you get real serious about pt because as soon as legal tells the commander the APFTs were illegitimate you can bet you're doing an APFT.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2018 10:10 AM

2018-09-26T10:10:02-04:00

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Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2018 10:14 AM

2018-09-26T10:14:48-04:00

Run on your own during the week . Use the track once a week and run 2 miles for time. Do the pushups and rest 10 min. Have a buddy hold you down or do the situps at home beforehand. The 10 min rest will be the drive to a local high school track. After the run is done. Rest a little and run 220m sprints and walk half a lap for a warmdown. You will be stronger in less than 90 days to retake and pass (with improvement )the APFT

Response by 1SG Timothy Trewin made Sep 26 at 2018 10:21 AM

2018-09-26T10:21:54-04:00

Were you given 90 days from your first failure to retake it? Also were you counseled after failing the first one? If you answer yes to both there is not much you can do as you would have known that you had a record coming up. Also failing a run by 11 seconds or 11 minutes is irrelevant as a fail is a fail.

When you fail your first APFT you are supposed to be counseled by the CDR and you have to take a second record APFT 90 days later unless you and your commander agree to take one sooner. If you fail it then you are to be recommended for chapter separation.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Sep 26 at 2018 12:07 PM

2018-09-26T12:07:02-04:00

The two responses I reviews are spot on. Take the time to read the regulations and speak with the next level, PLT Sgt, 1SG etc. get serious about PT, it is an individual responsibility. There is no place I have been that my Soldiers did not find ways to remain ready. Only you can make this happen. If you are going to press the command they are going to test your grit. Thank you for your service.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Sep 26 at 2018 12:23 PM

2018-09-26T12:23:36-04:00

1. It takes more to chapter you out than 1 APFT. 2. He can counsel you for failing the standard, and his recommendation for a chapter will hold true if you fail a 2nd record AFPT. 3, You said profile- what was your train up time for the profile? Ask your BN PA. Normally it's 1 week for every week on profile. That means you may not have failed the PT test cause you were still in the build up/reconditioning process after the profile. 4. Approach the LT with caution- check with the PA 1st, then get off your 4th POC and get fit so as to pass the next APFT, and things will be good again.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2018 12:47 PM

2018-09-26T12:47:49-04:00

You can fight the APFT failure chapter, by passing your APFT consistently.

Response by SSG Jose M. Hernandezsanchez made Sep 26 at 2018 1:41 PM

2018-09-26T13:41:14-04:00

PFC Hansen,
I don't know the extend or the nature of the profile. During my 20 years of service, I was on profile 4 times. The most severed one was my lower back which I still deal with every now and then. One thing I learned from been on profile is this whole madness about counselings, was the APFT on record or it wasn't. So, instead on dealing all that, find a way to stay in shape regardless of the conditions you are/were in. Profile does not mean sit around doing nothing, but depending on the situation of course. And yes, units expect you to take a test and pass it as soon you're off profile. It has happened to me. How about counseling? Did those take place at all?
Again, I don't know how bad your injury is/was, but you have to find a way to work around that to stay in some kind of shape. And even if it was a diagnostic, I would treat that as like it was a record. I know I did, every time.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2018 3:07 PM

2018-09-26T15:07:51-04:00

Did the NCO running the APFT tell you clearly that it was a record or a diagnostic? If it was clearly identified as a record, then you failed a record APFT.

You are given up to 90 days to retake the APFT that you failed. The only way to take it sooner is that is in counseling from I believe your supervisor and/or 1SG stating that you are ready to take it prior to the 90 days. I think that's in the regulation.

What was your profile for? What did the provider write on it about when you would be ready to take another APFT?

Go talk to legal. That's about all you can do but it's up to you to pass your APFT. If you can't pass the current one you're in for a world of trouble with the ACFT.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2018 4:36 PM

2018-09-26T16:36:11-04:00

Just because your LT told you it would be a Diagnostic, that does not make it so as it was (I'm guessing) was not conveyed to the OIC/NCOIC/Grader of the APFT. Also, you should have said so to your Grader prior to you starting your first event. If you did not, then hard lesson learned. Also, per the Regulation, you need to be counseled and notified that you have failed, will be flagged, and have 90 days before you take another Record APFT. You can take one sooner if you feel you are ready, and this should be documented in the Counseling. Taking another Record 30 days post initial failure is bad form.

About your profile. The way the system is now designed, there is no more recovery periods post profile. The time frame your profile covers includes recovery. By design, you are supposed to be ready to take an APFT right after the profile ends. Unless otherwise medically documented.

As for the counseling. You should have been counselled after your initial failure. If you were not, then that is bad form on the NCOs and Commander. You should have also been counselled after your second failure. If that was not done, then bad form on your NCOs and Commander.

On to your Chapter. You will be given a chance to speak to Legal. I HIGHLY encourage you to take that option and state your case. Here is why. There is a serious checklist for Chapters. Every single dot and cross must be met. And, APFT Failure counseling statements must be included. They CANNOT be back-dated. Which means, if your packet is sent up without those forms, it will be rejected by JAG and sent back to start over. If those counseling sessions never took place before the packet was submitted, the Command CANNOT create a counseling form that is back-dated.

As for you disagreeing to the statement, all that means is that you disagreeing with what was talked about in relation to what was written down on the form.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2018 12:18 PM

2018-09-27T12:18:34-04:00

First, You have to fail 3 consecutive APFT's for record before they can chapter you out. Second, you have to decide whether or not you want it for record prior to starting the APFT. You can't go back after you failed and change it to diagnostic. You are told this in the reading of the events prior to.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 30 at 2018 9:09 PM

2018-09-30T21:09:56-04:00

I don't know anything about fighting a chapter, but I'd like to ask: what was your profile for? Unless your profile is for absolutely no exercise or sweating (I've seen it before), there is always a way to stay in shape.

Another thing, it's never your unit's responsibility to keep you in shape, it's yours and yours alone.