How to handle a Soldier who may be taking advantage of medical to get out of going TDY?

2016-01-23T14:27:07-05:00

I have a soldier that is set to go TDY. This soldier came off of leave 2 weeks ago and said they wanted to use the open door policy and talk to 1sg. When they went to 1sg the soldier informed him that they didn't feel comfortable going TDY with the NCO in charge of the mission (the NCO is another from my plt.). This week I asked why informing the soldier they didn't have to answer if they didn't feel comfortable doing it, the soldier said that they think the NCO is out to get them (as far as UCMJ/seperation). Well this week the soldier has been to the Emergency room 3 times and all 3 times they were discharged with nothing wrong with them and reffered to provider. They went to sick call and got a temp profile with a follow up the day before they are suppose to fly out. The profile does not prevent them from going. Based on the perception of this I spoke to legal to ensure I am doing the right thing as far as my actions twards the soldier. The perception of my COC is the SM is trying to get out of it. Legal told me to encourage the SM to continue to support them on getting rehabilitated and get better. They also said the commander should get in contact with the SMs provider and base further action on that. I have spoken to my COC on this and the SM is still going. I agree with them however I feel like I am unable to do anything at my level other than talking to the soldier and letting them get away with this right now. To my section this situation may encourage others to follow suit. There are several barracks Lawyers encouraging these soldiers. My counter to this is show them the regulation and inform them that if they think im doing something wrong to show me it in black and white, and I encourage them to speak to the COC via open door policy or IG. I dont treat any of them diffrent I follow all regulations and perform my duties as a proffesional. I came from a unit that regulations was everything and i am now in a unit where regulations are not upheld. I am not trying to change the army as a whole only my little area of influence. But I am meeting resistance with everything I do.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2016 2:37 PM

2016-01-23T14:37:04-05:00

Keep following the regulations.....

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2016 2:39 PM

2016-01-23T14:39:40-05:00

Could you share any additional info on this? For ex. What is the nature of the TDY--a deployment, a school, an admin type thing? What is this soldier's performance like prior to this incident? Did you dig any deeper into why the soldier feels this NCO is out to get him/her? (And what are the sexes involved--could there be a sexual harrassment component to this?). Is there any record of issues with this NCO before?

A little more background might help us assess your options better.
Thanks.

Response by SGT(P) Daniel McBride made Jan 23 at 2016 2:48 PM

2016-01-23T14:48:20-05:00

Personally, if you feel strongly enough about it and can prove it. The chain of command can punish the soldier for malingering. Too many use "last minute" medical issues to get out of something. You can only help a soldier as much as they want to be helped.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2016 2:53 PM

2016-01-23T14:53:02-05:00

Not enough info. Seems to me you need to bring in Top and your Plt Sgt and sit down, come up with a COA and step out covering each others six. Look for evidence that the trooper may be right in his perception of the other NCO. If he is the NCO needs to be pulled aside. The trooper could be a "bag nasty" and the young NCO is going about corrective action wrong.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2016 2:59 PM

2016-01-23T14:59:42-05:00

It sounds like you are doing everything in your power to handle it. This looks like it is an issue that goes above your scope of authority, as it involves troops outside your section. One question would be, is did you talk to the other NCO that a complaint is being made?

As a supervisor you can go to the other NCO and get their side of what is going on. As a leader you can inform that person that you will not tolerate any unfair treatment of your personnel that you are charged with and that you will staff it up to your chain.

Then you need to talk to your troop and inform them that they can be charged with malingering under the UCMJ if they are going to medical to get out of duty and that this is not the right way to handle this.

If time does not allow for this, as it sounds like there is a real genuine problem at your unit. You can and should keep running this up the chain until the problem is solved. I would advise you document in detail ins a memo everything that ha happened so far so you can reference it later. You may need this information if an IG investigation or other legal process start occurring.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2016 3:09 PM

2016-01-23T15:09:40-05:00

For additional info not stated above see my comment under LTC Michael Mathews

Response by SSG David McPherson made Jan 23 at 2016 3:10 PM

2016-01-23T15:10:23-05:00

Get the Solder for malingering

Response by CPT Mark Gonzalez made Jan 23 at 2016 3:41 PM

2016-01-23T15:41:57-05:00

I have dealt with similar situations from the commander point of view. Keep doing what you are doing, but document it. It would be prudent to have a plan b for the mission already identified as a last minute profile is still possible. Keep your support channel fully informed so your communication isn't later faulted.
Your commander has to engage and speak with the providers treating this Soldier and he needs to speak with his trial council. A profile is not a suggestion and the commander cannot override it. So he has to be involved with the providers and fully understand any medical limitations. If the providers believe the solider is malingering the commander can take that info to his trial counsel and go from there. However, from a devils advocate point of view maybe this mission is so burdensome that the sm is having panic attacks or anxiety to the point they are unable to function.
You have to assume the medical condition is real, but you can also strictly enforce standards. So ensure you document violations as there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 23 at 2016 4:05 PM

2016-01-23T16:05:30-05:00

UCMJ Article 115, Malingering, Go For It!
Text.

“Any person subject to this chapter who for the purpose of avoiding work, duty, or service”—

(1) feigns illness, physical disablement, mental lapse or derangement; or

(2) intentionally inflicts self-injury; shallbe punished as a court-martial may direct.

Elements.

(1) That the accused was assigned to, or was aware of prospective assignment to, or availability for, the performance of work, duty, or service;

(2) That the accused feigned illness, physical disablement, mental lapse or derangement, or intentionally inflicted injury upon himself or herself; and

(3) That the accused’s purpose or intent in doing so was to avoid the work, duty, or service. Note: If the offense was committed in time of war or in a hostile fire pay zone, add the following element

(4) That the offense was committed (in time of war) (in a hostile fire pay zone).

Explanation.

(1) Nature of offense. The essence of this offense is the design to avoid performance of any work, duty, or service which may properly or normally be expected of one in the military service.

Whether to avoid all duty, or only a particular job, it is the purpose to shirk which characterizes the offense. Hence, the nature or permanency of a self-inflicted injury is not material on the question of guilt, nor is the seriousness of a physical or mental disability which is a sham. Evidence of the extent of the self-inflicted injury or feigned disability may, however, be relevant as a factor indicating the presence or absence of the purpose.

(2) How injury inflicted. The injury may be inflicted by nonviolent as well as by violent means and may be accomplished by any act or omission which produces, prolongs, or aggravates any sickness or disability. Thus, voluntary starvation which results in debility is a self-inflicted injury and when done for the purpose of avoiding work, duty, or service constitutes a violation of this article.

Lesser included offenses.

(1) Article 134—self-injury without intent to avoid service

(2) Article 80—attempts

Maximum punishment.

(1) Feigning illness, physical disablement, mental lapse, or derangement. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 1 year.

Ads
•US Military
•Army com
•Military Disability
•US Army
•Army Navy Military

(2) Feigning illness, physical disablement, mental lapse, or derangement in a hostile fire pay zone or in time of war. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 3 years.

(3) Intentional self-inflicted injury. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 5 years.

(4) Intentional self-inflicted injury in a hostile fire pay zone or in time of war. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 10 years.

Next Article> Article 116-Riot or breach of peace >

Above Information from Manual for Court Martial, 2002, Chapter 4, Paragraph 40.

Response by SFC Nathan Hudek made Jan 23 at 2016 4:12 PM

2016-01-23T16:12:15-05:00

Research malingering. Used that a few times in the past.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2016 4:15 PM

2016-01-23T16:15:08-05:00

Seems to me there is a lot more to this story.
If I take the facts as presented, "somebody doesn't like me" is not an excuse to get out of duty. More than likely, that is what the 1SG told this troop. Having said that, this is worthy of investigation on your part to get at what the deal is. If the NCO that "is out to get" your Soldier does in fact have the red ass with him, it is your responsibility to get in between. Maybe the issue is legitimate; maybe it isn't. Either way, you need to know.

Separate and distinct is the medical issue. The Soldier is protected by HIPPA from disclosing any conditions he has, but it sounds as though he's going in for anxiety and the medical facility is turning him away with no diagnosis. Also something you need to get the bottom of.

I think that you are correct to relate the two issues to each other but might have it backwards. He might not be going to the TMF to get out of the TDY, he might be going to the TMF to get treated for issues related to the TDY.
I don't think he should get out of the duty, but I think that you need to dig a little deeper. This Soldier might have a bigger issue than he's letting on.

Response by SFC Justin Rooks made Jan 23 at 2016 4:23 PM

2016-01-23T16:23:29-05:00

So far, it looks like this right thing is being done. Did the Soldier's counseling packet have anything in it to give you the impression that there was something to what the Soldier was saying? If you don't have that paperwork, then that in itself might provoke a question. Try to get the Soldier to expand on why she feels the way she does. It's obvious that she has no trust in her first line leadership, so you're going to have to show her that you're different than her last first line leader. Be empathetic and work to gain her trust. But she does need to realize that just having a feeling that someone is out to get her isn't enough to keep her from completing her mission. She needs to help you help her. As someone in the forum also said, make sure you counsel her to ensure that all the facts are straight and on paper. That helps you in the event that something happens and someone above your Kevlar level wants to look into it as well.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2016 4:44 PM

2016-01-23T16:44:16-05:00

Counsel and document, ensure an MFR stating the patters is anotated by either the soldiers supervisor/PSG or Pl to maintain track record, don't violate HIPPA but get as much detail from the Soldiers themselves based on comment the ought the PNN and talk to soldiers, they will give truth and know for sure what is going on. Build your case and then recommend administrative action though chain of command. At this point the seniors need to take action, you just document and haven't info.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2016 5:19 PM

2016-01-23T17:19:25-05:00

Who tries to get out of TDY? :o

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Jan 23 at 2016 6:01 PM

2016-01-23T18:01:16-05:00

The only warning that I will give about malingering is that if you go that route be sure that you are right. I had a soldier that I was convinced was malingering. He was going on sick call several times a week and they always sent him back saying that there was noting wrong with him. When I questioned him all that he would tell me was that he just didn't feel good. After weeks of this he died while sitting in the waiting room waiting to see the doctor. I never did find out what was wrong with him but apparently he was right and I was wrong.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2016 6:40 PM

2016-01-23T18:40:52-05:00

Alright SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member Thanks you for the further info.

With that info added, You're doing the right thing. Support the SM as they attempt to handle their medical issue. I'll tell you that you are right and I apologize for the brashness of the original comment. I came out the gate pretty heated, very big issue currently within the force and my initial perception of what you wrote was that this was another example of an NCO creating and environment encouraging soldiers to stay away from medical.

To answer your question again. We cannot tell what her actual injury is. That's going to be on her PCM. Best option for you. Prepare someone for last minute rotation. that appoint the day before if she receives another limiting profile and your TDY mission is physical in nature.. outside the scope of her profile? is it still going to wise to send her? I can't give you that answer though. That's all you and your leadership.

Best of luck.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2016 7:30 PM

2016-01-23T19:30:24-05:00

I see two separate issues.

The first one is there is an apparent lack of trust between a soldier and NCO. SM states that said NCO is "out to get him".

Why does this soldier feel this way? What is the relationship between this NCO and SM? Does this SM have or receive counsling from him? Clarification of these questions may provide some light into the situation. Basically what is causing this soldier to feel this way?

The second issue is the medical part. With your current thought process you may be going down the right path but with the wrong mindset. That being said I know nothing about you or this soldier. This soldier could have a legit medical issue. What's saying he has nothing wrong with him coming out of the ER? malingering is one of the toughest Articles to prove. If you truly think he is malingering then your commander must address it with the PCM.

Could these issues be connected? Maybe, fixing the first issue should take top priority. Figure out why this soldier feels this way. In theory you could be correct but he may be going to medical so he can get out of a possible hostile environment. On the other hand this SM could have legit medical issues. Work on the first issue first then see if the second issue continues.

Response by CW2 Michael Mullikin made Jan 23 at 2016 7:55 PM

2016-01-23T19:55:53-05:00

I have faced similar problems many times. As for the first issue, not wanting to perform your duty because you are not "comfortable" with your superior or supervisor, this has never been an option for the military. A careful search of the text of the UCMJ will produce very few citations that feature the word "comfort." While in the USMJ you also might look up "failure to repair,' "missing a troop movement," or "conduct unbecoming." Since your soldier has no legal case to make, your favored advice to him should be to "Shut up and soldier." If that doesn't do the job review with him the provisions of Aricle 15 of the UCMJ.

As for the second problem, the medical one, I have some experience with that too. At one time I was responsible for supervising soldiers in the mandatory weight loss program. This was where I got to see the shamming soldier at his or her most creative. Their was one soldier who had their own copy of the "Physicians Desk Reference," the primary reference on drugs and other medications. The soldier would show me his prescription, look it up in the PDR and show me that one possible side-effect might be fluid retention and difficulty losing weight. Rather than get into an argument about various drugs (not my area of expertise) I told them to bring me a note, signed by a DOCTOR, stating that the inability to lose weight was because of prescription drugs and the issue would be settled (doctors trump even lawyers) but this would have no effect on initiating action to chapter them out of the army. I would accept no excuses as to why they could't get the note from the doctor. All this woud again be followed by the advice to "Shut up and soldier."

You are right, this kind of rot can go through a unit quickly. However, as an NCO you have all the tools you need to deal with it.

Response by SSG Thomas Gallegos made Jan 23 at 2016 11:38 PM

2016-01-23T23:38:57-05:00

Looks like your up against the wall with a u it that does doesn't uphold the standards. Your in for a dog fight and one that will become personal. It seems you are doing the right thing however when up against a CoC that will not ultimately support you you need to reconfigure where you are? Hopefully this makes sense.

Response by SFC Jason Hodge made Jan 25 at 2016 11:21 AM

2016-01-25T11:21:12-05:00

Is this SM required to be in the section currently in? If not, move the SM. A sit down is very important in this instance, its important to know why this SM feels the way they do, is it justified or just the perception of the SM? If the SM refuses to discuse why they have this feeling, refer to the 1SG and CO at that point for further assistance. The SM may have some real peraonal home or family issues that need to be worked on or its just a simple case of Malingering to get out of a deployment.

Response by SP5 Richard Maze made Jan 25 at 2016 11:23 AM

2016-01-25T11:23:05-05:00

There are so many unknowns that make it impossible to know the right answer, so follow your instincts. One thing I'd consider is how the reluctant TDYer has performed in the past. Does this soldier always complain, and always try to get out of assignments? If this is unusual, maybe there is something you don't fully understand. Why you logically link the sick call visits with trying to avoid TDY, you might ponder for just a second about whether there could be a difficult to diagnose medical problem. With some experience, I can tell you that doctors miss things, even after repeated visits, but that doesn't mean there isn't something wrong. Since so much of this is out of your control, you need to rely on your leadership experience. Sorry I don't have a better better suggestion.

Response by SrA Paul Pfeil made Jan 25 at 2016 11:47 AM

2016-01-25T11:47:32-05:00

I'll play devil's advocate. It could be something is medically wrong with him, and the doc is missing it. It took the va 5 yrs to figure out what was wrong with me. I was passing out, having pain like heart attacks, and could not breath but every time I got to the doc I was ok. It wasn't until a resident lung doc checked lung capacity. Then they found in had a very unusual problem. I used to powerlift in the military, I had tore the muscles around my heart causing a myocardial bridge infarction, which weekend my lungs causing restricted lung disease. When I did physical things I got hypoxia and pain in my chest from lack of oxygen. Now I'm on o2 all the time. Doc's miss things.

Response by CH (MAJ) Dale Forrester made Jan 25 at 2016 12:30 PM

2016-01-25T12:30:34-05:00

What's with the plural pronouns when referring to a single soldier? I can't follow your argument. As far as malingerers are concerned we've always had them and always will. I was assigned to 6th ASG when we were deploying VIIth Corps to the gulf. One day, as I was chatting up soldiers getting their pre-deployment shots, I came upon a husband-wife pair of SSGs. One of them, gender not essential to this discussion, said, "I'm not going. I didn't join the Army for this!" Because it was a short war, I don't think this soldier deployed (something about a failed family care plan) and remained in the Army to serve as a model for (its) subordinates.

Response by MSG Jamie Coleman made Jan 25 at 2016 12:32 PM

2016-01-25T12:32:25-05:00

SGT (P) Johnie Wolfe, you're doing your job, this is a issue that is above your pay grade, I would say counsel the Soldier on Mission readiness and the affects that this Profile could have on him completing the mission, and then pass it off to your Platoon SGT or 1ST SGT.

Response by SGT Jeremiah B. made Jan 25 at 2016 12:39 PM

2016-01-25T12:39:28-05:00

It's not obvious from the original post, but from comments elsewhere - Is the SM a female and the NCO male? If so, "not comfortable" starts to take on whole new meanings that may not reflect in that particular NCO's relationships with other SM's.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2016 12:01 AM

2016-01-26T00:01:28-05:00

Assuming there is no underlying SHARP reason, the Soldier is worth retention, and can be rehabilitated, here is some unsolicited advice. Recommend a bar to reenlistment to your 1SG and commander. A couple things happen after a bar to reenlistment is initiated, the Soldier gets put on notice that this behavior is unacceptable and the Soldier cannot PCS for the unit. However, several requirements must be met by the CoC. First, the Soldier must be counseled by the commander of the reason for the bar to reenlistment, and the conditions for the removal of the bar. Second, the commander must counsel the soldier every 90 days in writing how the solder's progress. Lastly, if the soldier continues to violate the conditions of the bar the reenlistment he can be administratively separated for the continued abuse of the medical system. Remember, the bar to reenlistment is not a short to to chapter, it is a means to rehab a soldier who,is worth retention. Read through the regulation, and go in knowledgable when you speak to the 1SG. For commanders, this is a great tool, I had a company with a lot of discipline and behavioral problems, and at one time 10% of my company had a BTR on their record, but this tool helped me turn it around. If you're a commander, and your legal sheet is small, you're doing it wrong. A lengthy legal sheet doesn't cessation mean you're a bad commander, it means you are initiating swift military justice in the face of misconduct.

Response by SGT Kristin Wiley made Jan 26 at 2016 1:35 AM

2016-01-26T01:35:24-05:00

It is the perception of the SM that an NCO in your platoon is out to get him. It is your perception that this soldier is malingering. In some cases, there are no actions you can take in a professional manner that will change these perceptions.

Any medical matters are between the SM and his PCM. The Commander is the only other individual authorized to get involved in that situation, at the moment. If your Commander has been informed, the ball is in his court. You can respectfully inquire if any further information developed, but sharing any information with you could result in a HIPAA violation. If your Commander does not inform you of anything, then you need to treat this SM as if there is a medical issue (and not malingering). It doesn't matter what you personally think.

If the SM cannot get documentation from medical that would prevent the SM from going on TDY, then they will have to go. I'm not sure that nature of the TDY, but other than this NCO 'out to get him' what reasons are there for him to get out of this TDY? Think of it from the SM's perspective.

Honestly, from what you wrote above, it appears that everything you are doing is supporting the SM's fears that led him to use the open door policy in the first place. You need to establish trust, and you can't do that if you are constantly doubting your SM. Get appointment slips, but if there's no hard evidence to support your malingering theory other than your perceptions of his medical encounters, then you need to let it go. If you take this too far to 'prove you're right', you could be doing yourself and your career more harm then good (depending on the means you use).

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2016 4:18 PM

2016-02-01T16:18:04-05:00

You have to understand that there is a lot of information that is withheld due to privacy within the medical field. If the Soldier is acting questionable and evasive while being questioned about the treatment, there could be something SHARP related that he or she is not telling you. If a Soldier is going through all of this in order to avoid TDY, there may be deeper issues and the last thing he or she needs is to have a NCO questioning his or her credibility.

Response by LTC Terrence Farrier, PhD made Mar 29 at 2016 11:12 AM

2016-03-29T11:12:05-04:00

You are facing exactly what you should face as a young leader. No, it isn't easy - but you are looking at it the right way. And every environment requires a thorough understanding of all of the factors involved. Given what you have shared, I suggest this: Find someone in your unit who is the exact opposite. That is NO MATTER WHAT they show up, work through their pain - whether emotional or physical...and they still get it done. Talk to your commander and ask him/her to help you highlight this soldier's fidelity and drive in front of the whole unit. Yes, really mean it...not JUST a tool for the situation...but it will entice those sitting on the fence who are trying to decide to follow those less motivated or man/woman up and become what they swore an oath to do. Take this test as a blessing...and a great lesson to carry forward throughout your career. You...can do it!

Response by SGT Jeffrey Dennis made Jun 13 at 2016 11:52 PM

2016-06-13T23:52:34-04:00

As a Medic I'll say that the malingering issue makes this a little messy. If I knew the profile specifics, and what the TDY is, it might help a little. I think there is a pattern here, that if he can't get out of TDY one way,there is always malingering. Non Medical personnel cannot really determine if he is malingering. Also, he could have used the chain of command for this. If that didn't work, he could went straight to 1sgt or the CO. If the profile doesn't keep him from attending TDY, cut his orders and tell him to drive on. I would check the NCO, but you probably won't get far there. I would instruct the soldier, that malingering is a very serious offence, that affects every aspect of your Companies readiness. Also, instruct him to always use the chain of command, unless there is a problem that needs immediate attention. Top isn't going to like this open door crap, unless it is really a bad issue. Since the NCO is in another platoon, there isn't a whole lot of reasons to not go to his Platoon COC. PL can talk to the CO, and 1Sgt. Do your best to cover your 6, but get this soldier trained. It sounds like you got it under control, and know where the land mines are.
Good Luck Sgt.

Response by SSgt Jim Gilmore made Jun 14 at 2016 12:08 AM

2016-06-14T00:08:14-04:00

There are three sides to any situation...you side, my side and the truth. That said, we are only being made privy to your side and must assume facts not inn evidence are left our for privacy and security reasons. Based on what you have said here, I get the distinct impression there is a severe personality conflict between the SM and the other NCO. I would personally encourage the SM to make the TDY and then further evaluate the matter after the SM returns. To approach the other NCO is a bad move at this point IMO is a bad move. IF that NCO is indeed causing or is part of the problem it could only exacerbate matters...and tip them off to what you know know.

There have been barracks JAGs since the beginning of time. Why is that going to change now? I suggest that if you know who they maybe, confront them on an individual basis in private. Making no accusations, let ti be known that interfering or attempting to interfere with the good order and discipline of the unit will be met with disciplinary action.

Response by SFC Marc Waters made Jun 16 at 2016 5:48 PM

2016-06-16T17:48:41-04:00

Malingering is punishable under UCMJ if I recall > I'm retired so check with Legal or JAG and I sure they can tell you how to write up the counseling. They have samples you can use. I did it as a 1SG.

Response by SGT Ray Davies made Jun 18 at 2016 11:07 AM

2016-06-18T11:07:15-04:00

Talk to the medics. Way back when (60s), w platoon sgt had a problem with this one PFC coming on sick call almost every day. We treated the guy with Syrup if Ipicac (Severe Vomiting) and then after that we gave him Sterile Water injections(Burns like hell). He decided after a few trips to see us he didn't want to come see us any more. He wanted to be refered to the hospital, but never happened.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2016 7:29 PM

2016-09-15T19:29:16-04:00

As someone who has spent many years in volunteer advocacy and crisis management, physical illness from emotional trauma (in this case stress from a hostile work environment) is very real and very difficult to prove. In these days of circumventing bullying, hazing, harassment and fear of retaliation (even though we know it is illegal and NEVER happens) and HIPAA/patient privacy, I would be more apt to support the soldier, sent them to mental health and find out the root of the problem. I think you are only hearing part of the story and you either have a NCO who is taking his personal dislikes out on the soldier or you have some other improper behavior and you have a soldier that is afraid to talk about it. All well-oiled machines also are the ones that protect each other when there is conflict. I would be interested to know more facts.

Response by CPL Dennis Keith made Apr 20 at 2017 1:13 PM

2017-04-20T13:13:39-04:00

Separate them as quickly as possible from the service. No point in them being there. Let them live on a welfare check. Actions have consequences. If their Sergeant is a straight shooter, Don't saddle him/her with.dead weight. Go ahead and prune the tree to promote new growth.

Response by 1SG Michael Hargis made Apr 25 at 2017 5:51 PM

2017-04-25T17:51:56-04:00

I was a WTU PSG and malingering was rampant, failure to follow regulations was rampant, entitlement attitude was also rampant. This was from the hospital leadership all the way down to my CO CDR. What I learned was karma is a mother flipper. When the OIP occurred I had a book of MFR's documenting all of the failures of the Company and higher leadership. This resulted in much pain for them. Cover your six, ADVISE leadership without expectations, and document your actions. None of this is quick, but it was very satisfying in the end.

Response by SGT Bert Shamblin made May 20 at 2017 12:34 PM

2017-05-20T12:34:20-04:00

Hold some vaginal cream in front of him and tell him to put it on his pussy if it's hurting that bad.

Response by MSG Jamie Coleman made May 26 at 2017 12:04 AM

2017-05-26T00:04:10-04:00

Just keep doing what you are doing, keep records and notes on the situation. Also remember that a profile doesn't prevent a Soldier from going TDY.

Response by SPC David S. made Sep 12 at 2019 1:49 PM

2019-09-12T13:49:22-04:00

I like to know about the other NCO "out to get him." Seems like there is another side of the story that needs to be explored and understood. If in fact a NCO is looking to get even "why" and "what for" needs to be taking into context.

However this kind of BS drama really demonstrates the SM's inability to handle their affairs. Not sure how sticking one's head in the sand is going to resolve the conflict.

As far as the trooper trying to skirt TDY - that's not dealing with the issue which brings into consideration their leadership abilities as an NCO. If they can't manage their own personal problems how in the hell can they support and mentor junior enlisted and their problems?

You need to figure out what is going on - however don't necessarily need to fix it. I'd put that on the two wisenheimers screwing up the platoon's morale. They need to put their big boy pants on and learn how to resolve personal conflicts no matter how petty or serious the issue.

If they come to an impasse and things fester use UCMJ as a corrective measure as this will go in their file and will hopefully affect their ability in taking this lack of leadership to the next rank.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Sep 12 at 2019 8:57 PM

2019-09-12T20:57:47-04:00

I would get both sides of the story. There are often two sides of the story, and the truth.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 12 at 2019 8:58 PM

2019-09-12T20:58:16-04:00

Reading a lot of these comments one gets the impression that some leaders think their job is to protect the Army from the soldier...I always thought it was the other way around.

It’s a little disturbing that multiple people read the whole thing and immediately jumped to UCMJ/discharge.

There’s a root problem here. Maybe it’s the joe, maybe it’s the NCO, maybe it’s a little of both. Support the soldier as best you can while you dig into that root problem. As for the TDY, will any of her peers be going? Encourage a battle buddy system and tell her to keep he head down and do the work until she gets back.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2019 5:16 PM

2019-09-17T17:16:44-04:00

Perhaps that soldier doesn't feel comfortable enough to talk about why they don't want to be on tdy with someone specific. How would you feel if they came back and started a sharp investigation? As a leader you are suppose to protect those under you. What have you done to actually help this soldier? From what you state you have done nothing but try to cover for yourself.