How to handle missed customs and courtesies?

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 10:03:01 -0400

Certainly, each service is a little different and some particular customs and courtesies vary, but there are several which span all services.

Briefly, a situation from earlier today, I observed from a distance a soldier who I know to be a corporal walk passed a fellow LT coworker of mine without rendering a salute. The LT did not stop and correct the missed salute and they simply passed one another on the sidewalk. I caught up to the LT later and asked him why he did not act on the situation and we had a discussion.

If you were the officer, how would you have addressed this? Quick and to the point? Do you have any usual reactions or responses? Would you have corrected the corporal or just let it be? Please discuss.

Response by PO1 Michael G. made Aug 18 at 2014 2:50 PM

PO1 Michael G. — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 14:50:54 -0400

I've seen Sailors miss a salute periodically. Typically, the officer doesn't correct him, though he usually looks disgruntled by the time I'm close enough to salute. About a week ago I saw it happen, and I then caught up with the other Sailor; he said he was just distracted, and he was embarrassed for missing the salute, but he thanked me for telling him. This is usually how it happens if I see it happen and no one else is around.

Mostly, I see corrections being made by petty officers and Chiefs; these interactions range anywhere from a brief, "Hey, pay better attention, shipmate," to a full-blown chewing-out. The embarrassment level usually goes up when there are more chevrons or anchors involved...or anchors with stars on them.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2014 2:55 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 14:55:21 -0400

So my question to that is: what about in vehicles? Since decals went away, are enlisted exempt from saluting 06 and below unless they see stars on the front mount??

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2014 3:10 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 15:10:50 -0400

Poor CPL probably read "that thread" and is now confused as to who he has to salute, even if he has to salute.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2014 7:05 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 19:05:15 -0400

It happens, occasionally. Soldiers walk past, you are lost in your thoughts. In half a second you realize that your brain has recognized the double bars of a Captain! Oh no...absolutely disrespectful! Should I keep on walking and hope he or she didn't catch my name tape or run back and snap to salute?! *ahhhh!*
For instance, Capt Private RallyPoint Member, the action that I would execute, would be to recognize my missed salute, and promptly, call over my shoulder, " I'm sorry, Sir. Good morning (or evening)!" I would absolutely stop and turn around. If you were to continue walking along, you would have heard me. If not, and you are expecting to correct me on-the-spot, I would already be facing you, and will render a salute anyway.
I've seen too many soldiers who put on their uniform and act like they are putting on a t-shirt and cargo shorts, like they forget where they are. Military courtesy should never be a chore, but should be a concept that a soldier should embrace, on the basis of what it means to be a service-member. A soldier who feels angry or resentful (or too lazy) to render a simple,basic military courtesy to their officers, perhaps should get out of the service when their time is up. And really, good riddance.

Response by LT Jessica Kellogg made Aug 18 at 2014 10:24 PM

LT Jessica Kellogg — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 22:24:35 -0400

A twist on the scenario -

I have been told (but have not personally found the regulation) that if you are standing an armed watch, it is actually incorrect to salute, because doing so would distract from a proper watch. So, when gate guards do not salute after checking my ID (it doesn't happen often, but has twice this past week), I hesitate to say anything incase that is an actual regulation (I really need to look it up so I know for certain...).

Someone (I think on RP) also suggested a simple "good morning/afternoon" when they are close is enough to remind them to pay attention to their surroundings.

On the flip side... who decided it was a good idea to put black rank insignia on the type ii and type iii NWUs??? I have such a hard time seeing their rank until I get close.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2014 9:41 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Sep 2014 21:41:36 -0400

Most likely this Cpl just didn't realize what he was doing. If I was the officer I would have left him alone as well. He could have had a really bad day and was in his own little world. Or maybe he just didn't notice.

Sometimes, officers just need to respect the fact that not everyone around them is paying attention to their rank specifically. Not out of disrespect or anything. It's just people are thinking about other things than just "is this man/woman walking near me an officer?"

That being said, I'm in the AF where only officer ranks are worn on hats so it makes it easier to differentiate. I have little baby panic attacks when I'm on Army, Marines or Navy bases bc I also have terrible vision. EVERYBODYs getting saluted up in there! LOL

Just my 2 cents :-)

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2014 10:06 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Sep 2014 22:06:17 -0400

Doesn't matter why. Sometimes people just aren't paying attention, but I will stop them and ask them if there's something wrong with their right arm and if they've seen the PA about it. Feign concern over their obvious medical condition which keeps them from providing the proper military courtessies and then tell them they should really have that looked at as it may end up hindering their career in the future. Usually wakes them up.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2014 12:20 AM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 26 Sep 2014 00:20:13 -0400

I only walk on post when my CSM can come with me. I can't react fast enough if someone misses a salute.

Response by LTC Mark Gavula made Sep 26 at 2014 1:59 AM

LTC Mark Gavula — Fri, 26 Sep 2014 01:59:10 -0400

I would have stopped the corporal and pointed to my rank, explained to him AR 600 -25, asked him his 1SGs name, unit and phone number. I would also tell the young Soldier the history of the salute and I would take as much of his/her time as possible to teach coach and mentor. The one thing soldiers hate is to take their time, and I found this very effective. Normally, I did not call the 1SG. Your peer was afraid to make a correction or did not know how.

Response by SGT William Howell made Jan 6 at 2015 11:44 AM

SGT William Howell — Tue, 06 Jan 2015 11:44:50 -0500

Order and discipline are what makes us the best military in the world. We have to render courtesies. It is the backbone to order and discipline. I would have made sure to address the situation and made an on the spot correction. I would believe that the soldier was thinking about beer later that night and just missed the officer. I would have addressed in that matter without being to too confrontational.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Feb 10 at 2015 8:34 PM

Cpl Jeff N. — Tue, 10 Feb 2015 20:34:47 -0500

Unacceptable. The salute should be rendered by the CPL. If the LT doesn't correct the missed salute he is just as wrong for letting it go. He just kicks the can down the road for the next LT or CPT to have to correct the issue. It is a salute. You should have enough situational awareness to know you are walking right by a officer.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2015 8:51 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 Feb 2015 20:51:16 -0500

Sometimes people are caught up with a lot to do. I don't think it's intentional disrespect. I know I have missed one or two in 20 years. Sometimes with the newer subdued rank insignias it's hard to see what rank someone is. I try my best to provide the proper military courtesy and if I miss apologize and render it. I have passed some officers who totally are caught up as well and totally ignore me, but as long as a soldier does the right thing you have done what you should. If I were an officer, I would probably try to pull the soldier aside and let him know he needs to make sure he or she renders proper military courtesy. I may not yell at them, but someone else with less tact may. Take it as a learning opportunity as one of my teachers used to say!

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Feb 10 at 2015 8:57 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Tue, 10 Feb 2015 20:57:30 -0500

I'd simply say, "Enforce the standard and be the standard for this is the core of a highly disciplined Army for we are strong as the weakest link".

Response by MAJ Jim Steven made Feb 10 at 2015 10:46 PM

MAJ Jim Steven — Tue, 10 Feb 2015 22:46:06 -0500

If I pass by a kid who doesn't salute....it says more about you than me.
I will never pass by a senior ranking person without saluting or sayin hello.
You are more than welcome to be 8 up, I will not be.
But at the same time, you haven't hurt my ego....

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2015 9:51 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Feb 2015 09:51:57 -0500

Was the Corporal stopped and asked why they didn't salute? That's where I would have started on addressing the issue. If he did not have a valid reason to not salute, then that CPL would have been running to catch up to that Officer and fix the issue.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2015 9:55 AM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Feb 2015 09:55:06 -0500

I guess it depends on the situation. A momentary lapse of situational awareness is not the same as a blatant disregard for customs and courtesies. I would generally say hello to someone who was passing me by without rendering the proper customs and courtesies...usually that was enough to get a salute. There were always those outliers who needed more than a gentle reminder, though.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2015 10:07 AM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Feb 2015 10:07:37 -0500

I've ran into this a couple times. If I realize the individual isn't going to render the salute, I simply offer them the greeting of the day and give them the chance to correct the situation. If they still don't salute, I stop them and talk to them about customs and courtesies as well as the importance of maintaining their situational awareness. I make sure to never come across in a way that sounds like a lecture. I see it as an opportunity to mentor. I remind them that there could always be someone junior in rank to them that could see them and accept their example, and that applies to everything they do throughout the day, not just a salute.

Response by SFC Harry (Billy) Tison made Apr 3 at 2016 1:36 PM

SFC Harry (Billy) Tison — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 13:36:53 -0400

It bugs me to no end to see things like that happening. It also bugs me to see ROTC cadets doing the same thing, or walking around with their shirts not tucked in, or walking around uncovered outside.