How to train for better weapons handling?

2014-04-10T09:19:42-04:00

Okay so I have been in Afghanistan for about four (4) months now and have seen and or heard about five (5) negligent discharges already. Today a young soldier lit off a 3-5 round burst into the ground right outside my tent.

Now yes a big part of this problem is the fact that some soldiers are just poorly trained but another part is that in my opinion some people should NEVER be allowed to carry fire arms.

So here is how I think we can fix this problem-

1. Train soldiers to carry with one in the chamber.

If they know that they have a round in the chamber they will be more cautious. We do it overseas, why not train like it.

2. STOP PULLING THE TRIGGER WHEN YOU CLEAR A WEAPON.

This teaches very bad habbits, why would you ever pull the trigger to make sure it is clear.

3. While on ranges, stop treating the weapon like it can go off at any moment.

Move up and down range with your weapons, teach muzzle control and awareness. We have to get away from the "weapon up and down range at all times" idea, train like you would act and carry while forward deployed.

I could go on and on but I am sure I have already sparked the start of a wild fire, so lets do this!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2014 11:31 AM

2014-04-10T11:31:03-04:00

SSG Seets I do agree with the training aspect of this. However carrying a loaded weapon on post will never fly, Unless it is a blank or Simunition. Also there is so much red tape to cut I do not see this happening any time soon. By the time someone gets around to it it will be bypassed as unneeded due to the Military conflicts at hand. That is unfortunate because I think you are on the right track here.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2014 11:46 AM

2014-04-10T11:46:44-04:00

I understand your frustration! However, I don't completely agree with some
of your suggestions (not saying they are wrong), and would have my own list.
Yes I have been deployed and have heard of these things happening.

1. You say have them carry loaded all the time because they will be more
cautious when they have a round chambered. I feel that if this were the case
then we wouldn't see five negligent discharges in four months. The only way I
see to fix this would be to constantly have them carry a weapon (in a
field/training environment) and counsel them on muzzle awareness. Evaluate them
during the exercise and make on the spot corrections with some sort of
corrective actions for the problems.

2. Never fully understood the whole pulling of the trigger during clearing
either, but I will say that with engaged leadership, properly clearing their Soldier's
weapons at clearing barrels, it should not be an issue.

3. A weapon Should always be treated like it is loaded. I have learned that
in the military as well as civilian courses. Weapons up and down range are for
safety and have likely saved more lives than you know. Like I said in the first
comment, if this were not an issue we would not be having this discussion.

Just want to re-iterate, I am not saying that you are wrong and/or that I am
right, just another perspective. And I want to say finally, UCMJ for the ND’ers
and reprimands for the leaders that did not properly clear said weapons would
also lessen the amount that you see.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2014 12:00 PM

2014-04-10T12:00:59-04:00

Who started this "pulling the trigger" stuff. I post armed Soldiers on our shifts, have to seem to remind every single Soldier and NCO to read the posted clearing procedures with an emphasis on DO NOT PULL THE TRIGGER and have implemented training to correct this problem. Talking with my NCOs from combat MOSs, they relay to me that "they've always done it like that" and I just had one of my highspeed PFCs return from Special Reaction Team Training with the bad habit of pulling the trigger, learned from the school. I just want to know, who, what and where this stuff came from, if anyone has an idea.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2014 2:15 PM

2014-04-10T14:15:10-04:00

Maybe I am the odd man out in this discussion and I have always been taught to pull the trigger but it also never made sense to charge soldiers with a ND when they did pull the trigger and a round goes off.

My thinking is that pulling the trigger is an additional safeguard, it's why you use a clearing barrel, it is a practiced procedure that is supposed to be the last resort of clearing your weapon. I would rather have an exhausted soldier pop off a round in a clearing barrel than have it come out accidentally when a weapon hits the table in a dining hall.

My 2 cents at least

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2014 3:55 AM

2014-04-12T03:55:53-04:00

"2. STOP PULLING THE TRIGGER WHEN YOU CLEAR A WEAPON."

Quick story about that. When I was a boot in Kuwait and waiting to go into Iraq for my first time, there was a clearing barrel that was being monitored by some Army soldier from a PX window. When I cleared my weapon, she yelled at me "Pull the trigger!" I was lost until my Cpl squared this one away.

Why was I confused? Marines do not pull the trigger unless to kill. Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you ready to fire. This Marine is not firing anything. Keep your weapon on safe until you intend to fire. I don't intend to fire either in a barrel.

On top of this, unless I am killing bodies or targets, the only time I should be pulling the trigger is for a function check.

Clearing your weapon does not require you to pull the trigger to determine it is a cleared weapon.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Apr 12 at 2014 8:01 PM

2014-04-12T20:01:07-04:00

You get better by using your weapon more, carrying it more, inspecting it, cleaning it, performing functions checks and etc....I am talking about weapons immersion, get into the arms rooms during directed maintenance timelines, get your weapons out when you attend mandatory training....get used to carrying and handling your weapons and get rid of the fear of being around them.

There's no such thing as an accidental discharge.....you cannot accidentally pull the trigger. There are a series of events that must take place for your weapon to be ready to fire, the last of which is the finger on the trigger. You placing your finger on the trigger mechanism is not an accident - it is either an intended action or a plain out complacent and lazy action.

You are directly responsible for the way you employ your dang weapon, you have an INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY for the cleaning of, accountability of, inspection of and employment of your weapon.