How well an MBA can help military members transition to a civilian career? Does an MBA need to be from a "top 10" school?

Lt Col Skip Fleshman — Sat, 01 Mar 2014 10:08:03 -0500

Response by CPT Benjamin Faw made Mar 1 at 2014 4:13 PM

CPT Benjamin Faw — Sat, 01 Mar 2014 16:13:59 -0500

Lt Col Fleshman - thanks for starting this discussion. I believe the MBA is the best graduate degree for transitioning from military to business in today's economy - and here is why:<div>(1) The largest relative weakness when a civilian recruiter sees a veteran is lack of financial understanding, and lack of overall business acumen, the MBA helps give credibility and help fill those two gaps (arguably in a better way than any other degree or program)</div><div>(2) Even the most connected veterans fall way short in terms of "network" with their civilian counterpart, while an MBA experience does not give access to everyone, it helps a lot versus relying on on friends from the military or other experiences</div><div>(3) Placement into a job and direct interactions with top companies and recruiters is a part of the MBA experience (for two years in most cases of US programs) this means time to fail is built in, and the veteran can learn and develop in many ways over the two years, and in almost all cases I know of land a job prior to graduation of shortly thereafter</div><div>(4) Two years to "re-tool" and "re-set" along with an internship to "learn and experience" are huge. Especially for today's veteran who often comes transitions right after a combat experience - it takes time to get into the swing of a completely new world, and the MBA experience gives an ideal setting for this transition</div><div><br></div><div>As to the "Top 10" question...I have no view. While many who attend the Top 10 programs would love to say they are the only way to go and have the best chance of landing a veteran in a great network and great post-MBA job, the facts are a bit more murky. My veteran mentors with the most success (by most worldly standards such as position and wealth) did not attend top 10 MBA programs, and at the same time I have veteran mentors who did well from top 10 MBA programs as well. I think it is entirely case-by-case dependent. If you want to succeed in the business world and are willing to work hard enough for long enough - as a veteran with some smarts you probably will do very well, and it probably matters very little what school you went to as long as you learned the skills. </div><div><br></div><div>I am interested to hear the views of others - this is just one set of ideas from one set of experiences.</div>

Response by MAJ Craig Clark made Mar 2 at 2014 1:43 PM

MAJ Craig Clark — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 13:43:11 -0500

From an educational standpoint, I would agree with you that
an MBA can be helpful, however, if a vet thinks getting one will assist in
career placement from a resume standpoint, it is my opinion that it won’t
assist them in obtaining a higher paying position than their civilian
experience warrants. In higher paying
jobs, the civilian sector wants to hire someone who has experience doing
whatever it is they are hiring for and can hit the ground running from day
one. A vet with an MBA will be preferred
just slightly over another candidate who has an MBA but no civilian experience,
e.g. a recent college/MBA graduate.

Probably not want people to hear but while getting an MBA is
an excellent way to assist bridging the gap for a vet, it won’t span the
disparity of not having civilian experience.
I, like most vets, took a step backwards when entering the civilian
marketplace however, because of my military experience, I was able to excel past
peers, be recognized and advance quickly.
The key as I see it is to find a place that promotes based on
performance and not based on how long you’ve been with a particular company.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2014 5:47 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 17:47:52 -0500

I think having an MBA has significant potential to help military members transition to a civilian career. I also think the same is true for any graduate level degree. Education is a life-long process and it is important to realize that many civilian employers require degrees. When so many people, both Soldiers and civilians, have bachelor's degrees, the competition can be fierce. Doing anything to set yourself apart will help out. At least, that is what I am 'banking' on. I am 1/3 complete with my MBA, but I am also considering whether I should start looking at DBA or PhD in Business programs.

I don't think that having a top 10 school is necessarily the most important thing in the world. It might help, but I think the more important thing to consider is that the school is appropriately accredited. Accreditation ensures academic consistency. Sure, graduating from Harvard Business might look good on a resume, experience plays a big part in it.

Ultimately, I think the first thing that service members need to realize when transitioning out of the military is that they are competing with everyone else for jobs. Just because a newly retired veteran has 20+ years of military experience, that experience often times does not equate to corporate experience. It will them a step above civilian counterparts who just graduated college without any experience. There are many articles out there that talk about this topic, but I really liked the following:

http://www.careerattraction.com/congratulations-on-your-military-service-now-here-are-9-reasons-why-i-wont-hire-you/

Congratulations on Your Military Service… Now Here Are 9 Reasons Why I Won’t Hire You | Career Attraction

Just because you have the skills and experience for a position, that doesn’t mean you’ll get it. Avoid these mistakes to make sure you don’t sabotage your chanc

Response by SPC Maurice Dawson, D.Sc. made Mar 2 at 2014 7:08 PM

SPC Maurice Dawson, D.Sc. — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 19:08:24 -0500

It is important to know that many people seek a MBA with hopes of becoming a manager. I received my MBA after completing a doctoral degree in computer science, MS in management information systems security, and managing a large portfolio as a senior program manager in the defense industry. I think it depends on what you plan to do with that MBA. For example, if your intention is to go into management consulting with a big firm then a top 10 school would be highly desirable. If your intention is to go into a managerial role then seek a program that has AACSB International or ACBSP at the least. Remember not all military occupations translate into careers even if you were an officer. Also you may not need a MBA if you are seeking to be a specialist such as data analytics, software design, or systems engineering. If you are seeking a MBA but yet are not an expert in your field find a dual masters program where you can complete a MBA and then another graduate degree in an additional 18 months or less.

Make sure whatever you elect to do that the program has the accreditation that will make it stand apart from other programs. If anyone has any questions feel free to contact me at http://www.linkedin.com/in/mauricedawson

Response by Capt Brandon Charters made Mar 3 at 2014 1:09 AM

Capt Brandon Charters — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 01:09:54 -0500

Great question Skip. I think the curriculum and professors have everything to do with how well the MBA sets you up for transition. Military members have a wealth of management and operational examples to lend MBA classrooms. I've heard many professors say how much they enjoy hearing these stories. I think the more 'real world' applications and trending technologies that are discussed in class, the more value added the program is overall. Taking business models from actual companies of various sizes and studying their strengths/weaknesses (while building your own) were some of my favorite ways to learn how the civilian world operates.

On the prestige end, you know I work around 99% Ivy Leaguers and have to say they are some of the brightest and most successful vets I've ever met. My plan has always been to get smarter by being in the same room ;) In all seriousness, the networking that is fostered at many top tier universities is awesome. I've seen it from afar and can say I'm definitely envious. If you can build your own network of successful professionals, that can be just as helpful. For those shopping around for MBAs, I suggest looking hard at Universities with outstanding veteran alumni communities. This can be tremendously helpful for the transition as well.

Response by SPC David Wyckoff made Mar 3 at 2014 10:23 AM

SPC David Wyckoff — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 10:23:14 -0500

I just finished my M.S. yesterday from Colorado State University-Global. Its completely online. I am applying to the MBA program (also online) with the University of Wyoming for this fall. I'm very happy with my choice of schools. It works for me since I have to work full time to take care of a family. They aren't note-worthy schools that Harvard, Georgetown or Columbia might be but they fit my needs. They are accredited and the grad programs are acceptable to most employers.

I think it depends on your needs at the moment and your plans for the future.

Response by SPC Jerry Mensah made Mar 3 at 2014 12:17 PM

SPC Jerry Mensah — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 12:17:39 -0500

Is good to have MBA but it is hard for Vets to a job even with Degree.

Response by CPT Chase Sanger made Mar 3 at 2014 1:18 PM

CPT Chase Sanger — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 13:18:00 -0500

This was a great discussion, Sir. I recently started my MBA in Project Management and this discussion has really helped in giving me some realistic expectations for what my degree will do for me outside of the military.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2014 1:34 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 13:34:49 -0500

Sir, this is a great topic. I think that it really has a lot to do with a Soldier's MOS and experience. I'm a center commander in recruiting, so when we go to career fairs and networking events I always walk around to speak with employers. This means that I can get information straight from HR directors and staffing coordinators. For example, I'm going for my MBA and I have 8 years experience in recruiting/recruiting operations. 9/10 employers will hire me right away as a recruiter, talent acquisition manager, staffing coordinator, with NO degree based on my experience in a related field. However, if I want to step in to the management role, maybe as a regional sales director or recruiting operations manager, then the MBA along with my experience becomes my "one up" on the competition. As far as which institution, from the employers I speak to, it doesn't matter. I'm sure there's a case or two out there where it does, but these days it seems like a degree is a degree. The only reason why they ask where you got it and what year is so they can verify that you have it and didn't lie on your application. Again, this information is coming from HR directors of corporations that I've asked so it's not a blanket statement.

Response by SSG William Teague made Mar 3 at 2014 3:34 PM

SSG William Teague — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 15:34:56 -0500

I agree with you Craig. I was going to seek to further my education after leaving a company that I had some longevity with. I found that it would be of little benefit to me in this stage of the game. I would have to depend on my past experience and knowledge to capture the position I am presently in.

Response by CPT Dan McCall made Mar 3 at 2014 3:35 PM

CPT Dan McCall — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 15:35:16 -0500

I agree with Craig. If getting an MBA has been a goal, go for it! However, if you are only pursuing an advanced degree to make yourself more marketable, there are other and less expensive ways to improve your standing as a candidate.

Response by Capt Andre Toman made Mar 3 at 2014 5:02 PM

Capt Andre Toman — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 17:02:00 -0500

Having an MBA can make the transition easier, but that may mean accepting an 18 month opportunity cost of no income. If you go to a top 10, that seems to open up a few more doors, at least I've seen that with friends who went to Harvard, Chicago, and the like (I didn't). It's not a deal breaker to not go to a top ten, but I think it has distinct advantages. It may not be the best move, in other words, try to get an idea of what you want to be doing before blindly going into an MBA program, that's the first (and maybe the hardest) thing a transitioning service member should figure out.

Response by SSG Dave Rogers made Mar 3 at 2014 6:59 PM

SSG Dave Rogers — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 18:59:53 -0500

An MBA is a great tool if you also worked in a business or business related field while in it gives you the ability to get a better job when you PCS, especially since many business areas in the military work differently in the military than in the civilian market. I spent 14 years as a logistical manager in the army, and while I learned a lot, what I did not know is that the systems that the army uses are not the same as those used by logistical companies outside of the army. My MBA allowed me to not only learn that, but also to combine my military experience with civilian systems.

As for should the degree be from a top 10 school, I dont think it matters, I know people who have graduated from a top school and still can not get a job, while others I know graduated from a good school, with a great service record and have a good job.

You education is what you make from it, not the other way around.

Response by Capt Dirk Armbrust made Mar 4 at 2014 8:30 PM

Capt Dirk Armbrust — Tue, 04 Mar 2014 20:30:57 -0500

I've been in the private sector since 96. I coach folks who are getting out for business careers that they should pursue an MBA at the highest ranked program they get accepted to... and can afford.

Response by Capt Michael Appleby made Mar 5 at 2014 2:55 PM

Capt Michael Appleby — Wed, 05 Mar 2014 14:55:26 -0500

As somebody currently at a top MBA program I would say it is absolutely worth it. The opportunity cost is high and gets especially pricey if you have a family. I estimate over the two years of my program I will spend between $190,000-$200,000 when you include tuition, cost of living, traveling and extraneous expenses. However if you go to any program in the Top 10 it will open doors for you that simply are not accessible without the MBA.

That being said it depends a lot on your goals. If you don't want to be in finance or at a top management consulting firm then you might not need a top MBA. Just be aware that once you get outside of the top 15 or so they become very regional. So it would be best to attend a program that is in the same vicinity to where you would like to work. Also any reputable program should post their employment reports on their website. Make sure that the type of companies you want to work at recruit from the school you want to attend. Unfortunately the quality of MBA programs drops faster than their tuition. There are lots of programs out there that probably do not justify their costs so buyer beware. Make sure you do the research up front before jumping in.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2014 3:35 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 15:35:21 -0400

From my vantage point and speaking with hiring managers across multiple industries, performance and results matter the most, regardless of military or civilian experience. "Show me what you did" means quantifying your achievements numerically. While veterans do not necessarily have P&L responsibility, managing equipment, inventories, and budgets can be translated to a civilian employer. Most hiring managers (that I've spoken with, I'm certainly not speaking for all of them) say that at best the MBA is a tie-breaker between candidates.

From a networking perspective, the MBA can assist with some of that, but as more and more veterans join the work force and through the use of LinkedIn and organizations like American Corporate Partners, the networking piece can be enhanced.

The MBA can be a great tool to learn more about the business world, but it won't teach you everything. Most veterans performed in roles that they had little to no training for, but they were expected to lean forward, figure things out, and execute. Those skills can't be taught in a classroom and are very valuable to employers.

The MBA is also very expensive and an investment that should be carefully studied. It is not essential to career success, there are many paths to general management and the c-suite that do not require an MBA. I don't necessarily agree with all of the points in this article, but it does provide some food for thought: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB [login to see] [login to see] [login to see] [login to see] .

Response by Maj Jeremy R. made Aug 14 at 2014 5:03 PM

Maj Jeremy R. — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 17:03:24 -0400

Top 10 school...it depends on what you want to do, where you want to do it, and if you have any civilian business experience. I think a top regional school would be fine for most applications unless you need the social network of a specific school.

Response by CPL John Baldwin made Oct 14 at 2016 8:31 AM

CPL John Baldwin — Fri, 14 Oct 2016 08:31:40 -0400

My office hires recent Masters graduates. We have a job announcements periodically just for recent graduates. We don't care much about the school a as we do the degree. We look for business degrees especially in economics and accounting as we do a lot of financial reviews and economic analysis of business plans.

Response by Andrew Keady made Jun 26 at 2017 2:50 AM

Andrew Keady — Mon, 26 Jun 2017 02:50:33 -0400

As a civilian I can not answer the first part of your question adequately. However, more education will never hurt your job opportunities. But remember many employers are valuing experience more and more. As far as selection of school. School can matter but it has played less and less of a role in hiring decisions. Many employers seek the most qualified person for the job regardless of the school they went to. Try and choose a school with good alumni connections because they will connect you with jobs. Be sure to make good connections with your professors as their advice and references can be invaluable.