How will history remember this era? The Pentagon has no idea how many transgender troops it kicked out...

2015-06-30T16:06:45-04:00

I am not sure whether the "Daily Beast" is a legit news source, but the article was in the Early Bird, so it must have some topical utility. It is an interesting read.

Having been in the Army when "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" was rolled out (I had to give the DA Mandated Chain Teaching, because my BC was at a HQDA promotion board), and having been in the Army when it was repealed, I wonder how that era in our military will be remembered. At the time, we did as we were directed, as we don't make policy; we enforce it. But, if you think about DADT, it really makes/made no logical sense.

With DADT in annuls of history, the next logical step is how does the U.S. Military deal with Transgender Troops. I also dealt with issues revolving around this before I left active duty.

If the author's statistics are accurate, there are over 15,000 Transgender Troops in the military. It appears the Army and Air Force already require high-level approval of discharges for being Transgender. The Navy is moving in that direction.

The article makes me wonder how this will work out, and years down the road, how this will be remembered within DOD.

It is also interesting, in my view, as many times the Military has led the nation in dealing with social issues. But, with regards to LGBT it seems were way behind and playing catch-up only because we have to.

Your thoughts?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/29/pentagon-has-no-idea-how-many-trans-soldiers-it-kicked-out.html

Pentagon Has No Idea How Many Transgender Troops It Kicked Out

Willfully clueless: That’s the best way to describe the Pentagon’s current attitude toward transgender service members. But there may be changes ahead.

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Jun 30 at 2015 4:11 PM

2015-06-30T16:11:07-04:00

COL Charles Williams I find that very hard to believe. Sounds like the President and Hillary have been hanging out in the Pentagon - selective memory.

Response by SFC Stephen King made Jun 30 at 2015 4:12 PM

2015-06-30T16:12:59-04:00

This is going to require an open-mind for all. The fact is that DADT time in the service was a time to embrace yet we did not.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Jun 30 at 2015 4:18 PM

2015-06-30T16:18:55-04:00

(ironically enough) I think this era in history will be remembered as confused....in many ways, to include how the Policy is rolled out and the pace (or lack thereof). When will the MCM change, it is out dated.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Jun 30 at 2015 4:23 PM

2015-06-30T16:23:48-04:00

I honestly don't think the military is "ready" for it yet. When we repealed DADT, LGB was generally accepted by the country. Transgender is still really not well know (until recently) and not well understood by the country at large. Take on folks being concerned who has which bits and what bathroom or bunk they use and it becomes a powered keg.

As for legacy on the issue, I think at some point in the future, history will look back and go "why didn't they do it soon", much the same way history has with integration and first letting woman directly serve in any combat oriented role.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Jun 30 at 2015 4:41 PM

2015-06-30T16:41:54-04:00

COL Charles Williams I remember before Don't Ask Don't Tell was being considered that we had several out spoken homosexuals in my infantry company. I wondered why no charges were proffered against them - one was flamboyant and a cross dresser off duty if there was such a thing as off-duty in the military. Another soldier was quieter.
When Don't ask Don, Don't Tell was implemented it reminded me of Joseph Heller's Catch 22 novel in how ludicrous it was to institute a policy like Don't Ask Don't Tell without altering or expunging the sodomy and related charges in the UCMJ.
1 Now that it has been repealed I wonder how long it will be before the UCMJ is updated to reflect the change in policy. I wouldn't be over surprised if the UCMJ is not updated to reflect that change.
2. I hope that the UCMJ will not be revised to make intolerance an offense either as a separate charge or under the more general Conduct unbecoming ...
3. Dealing with "transgender" military personnel before, during and after sexual reassignment surgery can be expected to be a thorny issue. My experience at West Point as being a part of the first coed class leads me to believe that uniform standards will need to change [historically women's shoe, boot sizes were general small than men]. I had a soldier with a size 16 boot. Assuming some large transgender male to female special boot sizes would probably be required although stocking them at clothing issue as prepo would generally not make sense. The opposite situation of a small woman who goes through gender reassignment surgery into a man would require smaller boot sizes, etc.
Latrine facilities updates, unforeseen health issues associated with gender reassignment will require changes to medical manuals.
4. The issue of how gender reassignment surgery is funded and whether something akin to maternity leave would be required during recovery. Could be a "Brave New World" but probably won't be. COL Mikel J. Burroughs,

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2015 5:21 PM

2015-06-30T17:21:57-04:00

Yikes COL Charles Williams
I doubt that this article is the truth. In the mere 8 years that I have served, I have never seen such a thing, I got out in '08. I did have a homosexual NCO in Korea. The only thing is, is that if he knew you were a bigot, he was going to do everything in his power to piss you off. Flirt with you, whatever. There was a huge fight in the parking lot of Camp Colburn b/c of it. I don't know what became of him though. And there was a I believe butter bar that did get his Joes drunk and he'd take advantage of the guys. He's in Leavenworth. But for good reason. Joes drunk in Iraq + molestation... well you get the picture.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2015 6:32 PM

2015-06-30T18:32:53-04:00

While I think it is worthy to consider how the military can accommodate transgender Soldiers and whether or not it makes sense, there is not a chance in hell that there are 15,000 transgender troops in the military. 1500, maybe.
If we are going to have an informed discussion on this subject, we need to start with real facts.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jun 30 at 2015 6:40 PM

2015-06-30T18:40:28-04:00

I think the military will react like it always does. It will evolve.

We're a reflection of society. If society (as a whole) is accepting of Transgender, then the military will deal with the issue of Transgender.

As for the numbers presented in the article, it sounds like a percent representation of the whole. In other words a guess based on total force numbers.

When we get to the "no idea how many have been kicked out" concept. I doubt the military could give accurate numbers for any specific cause. I'm sure we have codes, but I just don't think we delve down that far, which in turn makes this a disingenuous statement. It would be like saying "We don't know how many have been retired for missing limbs."

Response by SSG Patricia King made Jun 30 at 2015 11:42 PM

2015-06-30T23:42:42-04:00

Sir,
You have posed some excellent questions. I would love to shed a little light on the subject. I am an openly transgender soldier in the U.S. Army. The Army also elevated our discharge authority for transgender soldiers back in March, presumably in preparation for changing policy. The numbers that you see thrown around are estimates and if anything are lowballs based on the numbers we have available. It's incredibly difficult to determine how many transgender SM's we have because most work so hard to hide who they are. We do know that roughly 1 in 5 people who identify as transgender serve or have served, making the military the largest single employer of trans people.
Have we put out many people for being trans, and many who we didn't even know were? I can tell you through my work in the community that the answer is most definitely. It's unfortunate as these were otherwise qualified people. We have 11 partner nations who allow open transgender service. We are hoping to soon join their ranks. You are welcome to PM me or reach out to me on social media sir if you have any questions. Thank you for your interest.

V/R
Patricia King
SSG USA

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jul 1 at 2015 7:30 AM

2015-07-01T07:30:18-04:00

I think the true number may be unobtainable. Yes we could form a task force and have it review all discharges in a given time period (say since DADT was instituted way back in 1993), and they could eventually come up with a number.

But I don't think that all transgenders who were discharged were necessarily kicked out for being transgendered. I'm sure a lot were discharged for the ever-popular "personality disorder" but no mention was made in discharge paperwork of the member being transgendered.

Response by SSG Patricia King made Jul 1 at 2015 10:52 AM

2015-07-01T10:52:26-04:00

I have seen a lot of comments on this thread and others about who should pay for transgender healthcare. Here is what I will say in response:
If I tell you that my arm is really bothering me, you tell me to go see a doctor. If I tell you that I am incredibly depressed, you tell me to go see a psychologist. And in both cases you will likely tell me to follow the doctors orders. Now as a transgender woman I have seen two doctors, one on post and one off. I have also seen two psychologists, again one on post and one off. All four of these medical professionals with over 20 years of combined medical schooling came up with the same diagnosis. I am transgender. And all of them had the same treatment option, transition. My transition is monitored closely by my doctor and at this point I pay for all of that out of pocket because Tricare doesn't yet cover my care like it might a vasectomy, a gastric bypass surgery, Lasik eye surgery or such. I find it interesting that we tell people to seek medical treatment and listen to our doctor but in the case of transgender people we dismiss both the diagnosis and treatment plan.
But wait, I know there are more argument's against. If this is the case then why let me serve? perhaps you will argue that this is a mental disability. The DSM-V designates being transgender as a disorder not a disability. That is an important distinction. Also, the American Medical Association unanimously determined last month that there is no medically relevant reason not to let transgender people serve openly. Yes we have medication that we take, but I submit that it has no bearing on my medical readiness. That has been determined by my PCM and many trans Service Members have deployed while on their medications...just as many other service members take medications while down range. The surgeries that we may or may not get have the same recovery times as most other surgeries do with less than 90 days spent on profile.
So many of the issues that we face are not medical, they are societal. While we do not fall under title 7 all federal employees who do are afforded protections for gender identity. This simply means that their pronouns are respected, they can use the proper bathroom, and they may wear clothes that fit with their gender identity. What does that mean for you? What it means is that if you had a federal employee or contractor working in your formation area right now who was transgender you would be required to respect them. Why is it that we need a requirement? Why can you not respect me in the same manner?
Where should I shower, where should I sleep, what PT standards should I follow? These are all tricky questions. I don't have the answers but 11 partner nations do. Canada, Britain, Israel, Australia and several of our other partners allow open trans service and have for years with little or no incident.
We know that a shift is coming and some day open trans service is going to happen. As leaders we need to be prepared to meet that change head on. We need to understand that a person in our formation may be that transgender Service Member and how we receive this change will affect them.
Thank you for your respect

Patricia King
SSG USA
Infantry

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made Jul 2 at 2015 2:46 AM

2015-07-02T02:46:56-04:00

I was stationed in Misawa Japan and every Democrat was asked if they would let Gays serve openly. They all jumped onto the band wagon. They got don't ask don't tell. Our military had been integrated till Woodrow Willson was elected and segregated it. Homosexuality has been redefined, it is not a mental disorder know. Before I get down graded, I read something in fb a gay sailor in WWII was discharged dishonorably and classified as a mental deviant. His life was ruined. That was wrong. And I know people used that excuse to get out of the draft in The 60's. So know that Gays and Lesbians can serve openly and our military know has to go to sensitivity training . We know have "transgender," coming out. And we cannot say anything. Hey Bruce Jenner thinks he is normal. My DAV president ran into a transgender officer at the convention. He did not want to remain a woman and tried to go back to being s man. And he hit on my friend. she told me it was awkward. But I guess this is the next step. I hear that pedi files are they are not perverts just born that way.

Response by PO1 Glenn Boucher made Jul 14 at 2015 9:06 PM

2015-07-14T21:06:21-04:00

I never heard of anyone being discharged for being Transgendered. Being openly homosexual and getting caught were reasons to be discharged. To me if your going to count who was discharged and now says they are Transgendered there will be a lot of lawsuits tying up the military for years to come.
I served with many homosexuals, most were the closeted ones who just wanted to do their time, learn something and have their GI bill ready for that day they got out. I saw very few homosexuals who were open about their sexuality, most of the time it was just assumed that someone was a homosexual because of how they acted, spoke or never had a girlfriend or boyfriend. I never heard of any service member claiming to be Transgendered, I did however see many Pre and Post Op Transgendered in Singapore, the Philippines, and Thailand.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Jul 16 at 2015 3:42 PM

2015-07-16T15:42:45-04:00

The Pentagon is an ever evolving BEAST, that evolves based on the wisdom of those in charge which means some times they make wise decisions and some times they screw up, and history will report the facts based on who writes it.