How will the military handle the conundrum with the Catholic Church and same sex marriages?

SGT Jim Ramge, MBA — Wed, 17 Mar 2021 13:02:04 -0400

Have to toss this out there - being Roman Catholic. Had to dig deep, please feel free to pass around to the masses!

The Department of Defense (DoD) now has a conundrum with same sex marriage on its hands, due to the newer policies of the Biden Administration, as the Pope recently stated that same sex marriages are barred. With the new administration in office, same sex marriages are now permitted and acceptable. This raises several difficult question(s) for the militaries Religious Services as a whole, and I will explain.

1) Are Chaplains/Deacons now not permitted to marry same sex due to their own religion, or religious faith, morals and values as dictated by the church?

2) Are Chaplains/Deacons now eligible to be prosecuted for not following lawful orders from higher under UCMJ or observed to be immune?

3) Due to Catholicism now undergoing a major change, if barred, and if DoD accepts and modifies its mandates, should other religions be permitted to marry, or are all religions now to barred?

I have come to remain neutral on the matter as every era has its changes. When I was younger in my 20s, honestly, I was against - out of the woodwork with "Don't Ask, Don't Tell", folks just started popping up, left and right. No choice in the matter serving, I slowly started accepting change and now am neutral with the matter - as can't change it, roll with it!

I bring to light these questions, and I'll pose another with Muslims and being able to marry up to 4-wives. Why not permit? Obviously, the DoD wants to include what society has seemingly come to accept with some activity, but Catholicism has yet to take on. However, Muslim activities are held back by the DoD, e.g., 4-wives... Why?

I myself find it rather funny with what is acceptable, and what not, when it comes to religious activity and what is considered immoral.

And SO, my ask a question -

One must ask, where does/should the DoD draw the line with crossing Religion and religious matters of morality and/or now having to deal with actions against those whom may/might not want to, rather cannot, due to their religion, permit? And, why is it now okay for some matters of moral/immoral activity, for some, but not all?

Am interested to read folks opinions on the matter - HOWEVER, BE KIND AND RESPECTFUL OF ONE ANOTHER, THIS IS AN EXTREMELY HEATED TOPIC FOR SOME!!!

https://apnews.com/article/vatican-decree-same-sex-unions-cannot-bless-sin-077944750c975313ad253328e4cf7443

Vatican bars gay union blessing, says God 'can't bless sin'

ROME (AP) — The Vatican declared Monday that the Catholic Church won't bless same-sex unions since God “cannot bless sin.” The Vatican’s orthodoxy office, the Congregation for the Doctrine...

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2021 1:14 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Mar 2021 13:14:27 -0400

Well first off, in regards to marriage. The clergy simply perform a ceremony to make the marriage fit within the religion, but nothing legally happens. It is the town/county that legally marries people and that is what is used by DEERS to handle who is married to whom in the DoD - regardless of which or if any religion was involved. So it really doesn't matter to the DoD what a religion says.
You can't legally be married to more than one person at a time in the US, despite what a religion might say, the government only allows 1 and recognizes 1.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2021 1:28 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Mar 2021 13:28:21 -0400

It's not a conundrum for us peons. Higher policy and directives will be pushed down. We will execute said guidance.

We are all either trying to get to the next promotion, retirement, or ETS.

Response by SFC James Corona made Mar 17 at 2021 4:09 PM

SFC James Corona — Wed, 17 Mar 2021 16:09:42 -0400

Can we change the WEATHER? These tremendous cultural changes are REAL! What about transgender accomodations and new fitness standards? How will these changes impact Combat Readiness?

We can't change the weather but we can use an umbrella meaning members of the Armed Forces need much Diversity EO training to accomodate the vast cultural profound changes affecting our surrounding the world.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2021 4:54 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Mar 2021 16:54:49 -0400

There is no conundrum here. The Pope said the Catholic church will not bless same sex marriages. Chaplains are not required to perform marriages by the military that is a personal decision for them. Performing marriage is not one of their official duties, ministering and spiritual health are. The Catholic church has said they will accept same sex couples, just not perform the marriages.

Response by MSG Stan Hutchison made Mar 17 at 2021 5:29 PM

MSG Stan Hutchison — Wed, 17 Mar 2021 17:29:34 -0400

The military must follow federal law. period. No politics, no religion, just the law.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Mar 17 at 2021 6:51 PM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Wed, 17 Mar 2021 18:51:45 -0400

Generally speaking, Chaplains are required to serve all personnel. However they are only required to perform religious sacraments within the scope of their faith. Marriage is a sacrament within the Catholic faith.

In practice, a Catholic Chaplain would not be required to OFFICIATE a same sex marriage, but he WOULD be required to minister to same sex couples by providing counsel, comfort, and aid.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Mar 18 at 2021 8:59 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Thu, 18 Mar 2021 08:59:46 -0400

There's no conundrum. Marraige is a legal contract administered by the state. The churches views are irrelevant.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Mar 18 at 2021 5:23 PM

LTC Stephen F. — Thu, 18 Mar 2021 17:23:04 -0400

Thank you my friend SGT Jim Ramge, MBA for posting a thoughtful question.
1. As those of us very familiar with history understand, the laws of the land don't always seem reasonable and often don't line up with the tenets of faith in Christianity, Judaism, and even Islam [where Muslims are a minority as in this nation].
2. Objections due to conscience have been upheld at the supreme court for limited issues such as being forced to perform induced abortions, forced to counsel for or against induced abortion.
3. Doing what is right, noble and true to your faith often comes at a cost - from freedom to jail.
4. Individual chaplains and the faith they represent will need to come t terms for what they will do. Hopefully as in induced abortion, as long as there are chaplains who can perform a ceremony in good conscience then I hope those whose faith prohibits them form performing said ceremony will be permitted to do so.
FYI Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. MAJ Dale E. Wilson, Ph.D. PO1 H Gene Lawrence SMSgt David A Asbury TSgt David L. CH (MAJ) William Beaver SMSgt Lawrence McCarter SGT Steve McFarland PO2 Private RallyPoint Member PO2 Frederick Dunn SPC Michael Duricko, Ph.D SSG Franklin Briant SFC Chuck Martinez LTC Private RallyPoint Member LTC Wayne Brandon SGT James Murphy