How would "Hip-Hop/Rap" be now if Gangster Rap had been a fleeting trend and/or it stopped glamorizing African American racial slurs?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 23 Sep 2015 11:36:46 -0400

What do you perceive as the difference between hip hop and rap music?
How could you see the genre being now hadn't money, sex, drugs, and violence taken priority over uplifting, educational, and thought-provoking messages?

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 11:41 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 23 Sep 2015 11:41:31 -0400

*gets popcorn and sits down to watch the comments*

Response by SGT David T. made Sep 23 at 2015 11:46 AM

SGT David T. — Wed, 23 Sep 2015 11:46:55 -0400

I am so not even touching this one lol

Response by Capt Mark Strobl made Sep 23 at 2015 11:51 AM

Capt Mark Strobl — Wed, 23 Sep 2015 11:51:24 -0400

Now into my mid-to-late 40's, my mother still rolls her eyes as I roll into her drive-way. Mini-van full of her grandchildren. I get a tongue-lashing for "playing that crap too loud." Whatever, Mom. The kids are simply being exposed to "oldies" ...albeit the Scorpions. Besides, the kids don't like Glen Miller!

It's. Just. My. Music.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 11:58 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 23 Sep 2015 11:58:55 -0400

Gangster rap came out to tell street stories of stuff that was really going on because at that time rap was party music.
So in Rallypoint words they were not "PC". It still happened before gangster rap and would still happen if it were never made. Dont recall Al Capone listening to NWA while murdering & pillaging on the streets of Chicago. Now rap is a hodge podge of trash/junk with few true lyricists and story tellers left. What really needs to happen is for people to stop letting media and blame gangster rap/kim kardashian/instagram for their child's problems. Hold people accountable for their own actions and raise your kids instead of MTV and the streets or you'll see shit like whats going on right now in Chicago

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 12:03 PM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 23 Sep 2015 12:03:56 -0400

As an avid hip hop head I have watched my beloved art turn into something I can't even recognize anymore. My best friend and I both Senior NCO's and MC'S in our on right, have asked this very same question. Hip hop would have remained in its purest form. However money would have come along eventually. Anything that makes money will be snatched up by a corporation at some point. I missed the days of Eric B and Rakim, A Tribe Called Quest, Big Daddy Kane, and KRS1. This music was my generations music. Sadly I feel nonviolent and lyricists will soon be a thing of the past. I wish it wasn't so though.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 12:07 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 23 Sep 2015 12:07:58 -0400

I know not all rap/hip-hop have messages that promote sex, drugs, and violence, but I think it's a poor decision on the part of the listener for allowing performers to promote those messages. If someone listens to any performance that promotes poor behavior, all they do is feed a negative stereotype. I've attached on example of misogynistic messages.

WARNING: some are pretty graphic and extremely demeaning to women. What I don't understand is how people can find the messages in the attached link entertaining.

http://elitedaily.com/music/music-news/the-20-most-misogynist-lines-in-rap-history/

The 15 Most Misogynist Lines In Rap History

The game has a long history of beating up on women, no matter how many rappers were raised by their mommas.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Sep 23 at 2015 12:21 PM

SSG Warren Swan — Wed, 23 Sep 2015 12:21:06 -0400

If you know what Hip Hop is vs. rap itself, Hip Hop was originally formed as a means to get a message from the various ghettos out in music form. Grand Master Flash and the Furious Five talked about "White Lines". No glorification of violence in it, yet it told of a soon to be crisis in the ghettos called crack. Public Enemy was also along the lines of militant Hip Hop with their focus on education. What eventually got them into trouble wasn't their views or stances per say, but Prof. McGriff's anti Semitic comments that got him removed from the S1W. And P.E. wasn't an ignorant band either. Chuck was a college graduate and is now a professor on his own and still making records. Back in the 80's most of the rappers of the time were college graduates. Gangsta rap was an "evolution/de-evolution" of Hip Hop. It still brought the message of the streets, but rather than keep it clean as had been done before, it used vulgarity and shock value to get it's point across. Same overall message, completely different delivery. Corporate America bought into the whole "gangsta rap" genre and then they massed produced them (Model T Ford style) the moment the cross over appeal was discovered. Hence today you can hear re-hashed versions of the same crimes committed by everyone and their mother. And everyone is from the ghetto. Man I never knew there were SOO many people from the SAME ghettos doing the SAME crimes, and the cops are clueless. Yeah. Right. Hip Hop is a lifestyle, where rap is a "skill" where you can put words together and they happen to rhyme. It doesn't have to make any sense even. You could break this down even farther, but like French Montana said "Conscious Rap/Hip Hop doesn't sell". As stupid, ignorant, (I can't stand him BTW), he is right. You want to make money, lie, lie, take another identity (Rick Ross), lie, and when you make it "big" get a sudden charge or short prison term (Lil Wayne and TI). Did I mention lie?

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 1:46 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 23 Sep 2015 13:46:03 -0400

Not as knowledgeable as I'd like to be on the subject (does having Bloodhound Gang on my iPod count?)...but I imagine it's like how country music went to hell in a hand basket when they stopped producing real troubadours like Cash and Waylon Jennings. I know that when I hear a song that has a message...I try to listen. That can be an easy, even enlightening experience, regardless of the genre...That said, whether it's Hip-Hop, Rap, Soul, Blues, Jazz, Country, Folk, or Rock, a great message can get lost in too much "shock".

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Sep 23 at 2015 2:45 PM

SSG Warren Swan — Wed, 23 Sep 2015 14:45:54 -0400

"I got a letter from the government the other day..I opened and read it and it said I'm a sucka...they wanted me to go to the VA for some treatment, picture me givin a damn I said NEVA....Here a system that never gave a damn...about a brotha like me and myself because they never did. I wasn't wit but just another minute it occurred to me those suckas had authority. Cold sweatin as I dwell in the waiting room, how long has it been they've got sweating like a chick..en (WORD!!!). I gotta get out, but that thought was thought before...I made a plan for escape on the ER floor...
~~~~~Black Steel in the hours in the VA~~~~~~~
My attempt of Hip Hop humor for the day... Imma keep my day job tho.

Response by Sgt Kelli Mays made Sep 23 at 2015 3:25 PM

Sgt Kelli Mays — Wed, 23 Sep 2015 15:25:36 -0400

I think and know for a fact by seeing through my kids that hip hop and rap changed kids. There are two versions to many hip hop or rap songs...you have the clean version...or somewhat clean version then you have the "explicit" version which is very very very bad....these genre's are the reason for so much violence....the reason why black, white, hispanic, asian kids use the word "N***A" they use it freely and openly. This genre is the reason for violence....shootings....theft...and most of all DRUG USE. I've listened to the lyrics....and from 1999 till just recently....the FCC didn't do a damn thing about stopping this kind of crap from being aired....DJ's on the radio used bad language and it was a NIGHT MARE....a couple of years ago...it started getting toned back...and FCC finally came down...and explcit versions are no longer being played on the radio and DJ's filthy mouths have been cleaned up...but for the kids who grew up during this time...mine included.....have a totally different mind set because of this music and the lyrics.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2015 12:06 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 24 Sep 2015 00:06:32 -0400

I have no idea, but I blame Biggie.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Sep 24 at 2015 12:48 PM

Cpl Jeff N. — Thu, 24 Sep 2015 12:48:57 -0400

I have raised three kids so I hear some of the "music" popular with their age groups. Some of it I have had to screen. Some of it is so bad the "artists" release a regular version and a clean version of their song.

Some of the key elements of music, melody, rhythm, harmony. measure/time and lyrical content is sorely lacking in much of this genre. The vulgarity, misogyny and violence is staggering. I am surprised there is not more of an outcry from feminist groups, parents, clergy etc against some of the worst of it.

Now I will get my popcorn and sit down and await the comments.

Response by SP5 Ford Ross made Sep 26 at 2015 11:57 AM

SP5 Ford Ross — Sat, 26 Sep 2015 11:57:35 -0400

Hip/Hop comes from Chic and Sugarhill, but with tinges of 1957's "Rock Island" from "The Music Man". The slurs cause some people to pay for the music so, look whaddya talk, whaddya talk, whaddya talk, where do ya geddit?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 29 at 2015 12:19 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 29 Nov 2015 00:19:37 -0500

It's a reason why what you hear on the radio, is what I hear on the radio

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2015 12:33 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 12:33:25 -0500

SGT Private RallyPoint Member I've never listened to it, so I can't say one way or the other. I didn't grow up listening to rap or hip hop. Neither did my kids. We're all about country music.

Response by MSgt Curtis Ellis made Dec 8 at 2015 1:10 PM

MSgt Curtis Ellis — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 13:10:54 -0500

SGT Private RallyPoint Member No history, no statistics, just my opinion from what I've observed in life... I really don't think either would have changed much or made much of a difference. Gangster rap often gave a harsh view of reality, the good and the bad of it. Hip-Hop/Rap tends to be the "softer side" if you will, that had the ability to cross racial barriers, but the story was still the same, that is, if you remove the money, sex, drugs, and violence, you still had uplifting, educational, and thought-provoking messages (sugar coated, of course! LOL!). I believe that both drive each other and one could not exist without the other. Sure, there may be some obvious differences, especially in acceptance, but I believe that as long as one survived, racial slurs and all, the other would live along with it, after-all, they are family; The perception? They are twins, to be exact, one good, one bad! It is what it is unless the willingness is there to view it for what it REALLY is... Everybody got a story to tell, how it's presented will determine who listens... LOL! We believe that guns don't kill people... Neither does music...

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2016 4:21 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Jul 2016 16:21:00 -0400

SSG Michael Hartsfield , I can't reply to you on Kelli May's thread - I'm blocked - ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
However, one can always revive an old thread.

Response by SGT Tracey "Tra" Cooper-Harris made Jul 27 at 2016 4:23 PM

SGT Tracey "Tra" Cooper-Harris — Wed, 27 Jul 2016 16:23:03 -0400

There was a message in Hip Hop, just like SSG Warren Swan stated. Grand Master Flash. Public Enemy. Self Destruction by Stop the Violence in the 80s...We're All in the Same Gang by the West Coast AllStars in the 90s. That's the Way it Is by Run DMC. Hell, even Ghostface Killah in WuTang Klan had All That I Got Is You. Tupac Keep Ya Head Up. Biggie with Juicy. All had a message about how hard it was coming up & their struggle. You don't see it as often today because folks are more about the Money vs the message.

This was Hip Hop. There was a message. Rap today is about what is hot in the streets. No message. Just some half ass lyrics on a beat that's fire.

Today, the message doesn't sell. Better yet, it's more underground than the mainstream stuff out there today. You just need a beat, sound incoherent, throw in some bravado about what is thought to be tough. Yeah, I'm looking at this harshly because I was a little kid when Sugar Hill Gang came out with Rapper's Delight, wondered how the heck my Mom let me listen to Grand Master Flash & the Furious 5 with me barely understanding The Message but at to repeat it lyric by lyric, was in Jersey with Tawana Brawley incident that was part of the reason of PE's Fight the Power.

What can be done to change this SGT Private RallyPoint Member ? If we as consumers demand something better, we will get better. Otherwise, we'll keep the same substandard stuff passing as Hip Hop & Rap our kids & grandkids have today.