SFC Private RallyPoint Member 6532179 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Hey battles I’m just joining. I have a scenario based question. If a senior leader in your NCO Support Channel showed up to you AO to conduct an event oriented counseling without any mention to deficiencies prior too or a DA 4856 in hand the day of counseling but conducts what can be perceived as a grilling session and precedes the conversation by saying “I told your leadership to not tell you I’m coming”. The following day sends you a DA 4856 that reads you were disrespectful but mentioned nothing to the conversation that was had the previous day. 1. How would you respond? 2. How would you view that leader/leadership? 3. How would you proceed moving forward? 2020-11-26T15:27:43-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 6532179

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Hey battles I’m just joining. I have a scenario based question. If a senior leader in your NCO Support Channel showed up to you AO to conduct an event oriented counseling without any mention to deficiencies prior too or a DA 4856 in hand the day of counseling but conducts what can be perceived as a grilling session and precedes the conversation by saying “I told your leadership to not tell you I’m coming”. The following day sends you a DA 4856 that reads you were disrespectful but mentioned nothing to the conversation that was had the previous day. 1. How would you respond? 2. How would you view that leader/leadership? 3. How would you proceed moving forward?

2020-11-26T15:27:43-05:00 2020-11-26T15:27:43-05:00 SGT Joseph Gunderson 6532216

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Well, in reality, a counseling can be presented at the initial moment they speak to you. It isn&#39;t a common practice, as most leaders will speak to subordinates &quot;off the record&quot; before they start a paper trail. What this sounds like, however, is someone attempting to start a paper trail. Usually you don&#39;t stack &quot;negative&quot; counselings unless you&#39;re working toward something. I&#39;d definitely be wary of this &quot;leader&quot;. I&#39;d ask that provide evidence of the alleged conduct, especially the alleged disrespectful attitude during the previous counseling session. Make sure you take your opportunity to leave comments on the form. You might want to start preparing documentation for yourself in the event this person is building up a history of alleged poor performance or conduct.

2020-11-26T15:52:55-05:00 2020-11-26T15:52:55-05:00 SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member 6532273

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>It sounds as though this person is looking to start something. So be careful with what and how you respond if you respond at all. <br /><br />Either, respectfully insist they give a detailed report as to what happened and how the disrespect was shown so you may &quot;rectify and prevent&quot; such perceived disrespect in future circumstances and have ground to rebuttal or accept what is said, OR let it go. One less than desirable review will not outweigh all of the positive ones you&#39;ve had and will continue to have throughout your career.<br /><br />If they&#39;re saying they told your leadership NOT to tell you they were coming than that means you are perceived as a threat and they wanted to put you at a disadvantage. So, respectfully, this individual is a coward and is frankly not worth your time or efforts. <br /><br />Moving forward? I would give the rank they wear all the respect that is due, they however will only receive the amount of respect as they earn. No more, no less. You focus on the rank, give the proper respects and thank god you don&#39;t have to golf with them later.

2020-11-26T16:27:44-05:00 2020-11-26T16:27:44-05:00 1SG Private RallyPoint Member 6532448

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>You can always check disagree on the 4856 and write in why you disagree.<br />The other thing to do is be objective. Did this person point out a legitimate issue with something you had done? Remove personal feelings, no one likes being told they suck at their job. If the issue is legitimate, fix yourself. If the issue is not legitimate, lick your wound and move on with your bad self.

2020-11-26T19:30:08-05:00 2020-11-26T19:30:08-05:00 MSG Private RallyPoint Member 6532696

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Here is how I see things. The SNCO that was paying the visit may have chosen to tell leadership to not say anything that way answers/responses wouldn&#39;t be rehearsed. That, I can see merit in. As for the other stuff....<br /><br />I would respond with Checking a DO NOT AGREE box on that form, make my statement in said given box, and just continue mission. I would certainly perceive that Leader as having poor leadership/mentoring skills. Especially if the &quot;disrespectful&quot; counseling had no substantiating bullets in said counseling talking about the specific disrespect. I would also have the knuckles ready to knock on the door of the Commander IOT use the Open Door Policy.

2020-11-26T22:24:50-05:00 2020-11-26T22:24:50-05:00 CSM Darieus ZaGara 6532982

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>It is not out of the ordinary for a Senior Leader to look to see something for themselves. If they arrive and there suspicions are substantiated, they have an obligation to speak with you about the matter. The rest depends on how the encounter developed. <br /><br />Having said this, it is not common to send a counseling form for signature. You do not have to concur with the content, you do have to sign. <br /><br />There is a great deal missing here. If you were wrong, or their suspicions substantiated take the counseling as a learning point. If it was wrong do not concur and be prepared for further discussion. Remember the position-Parade Rest. I found through the years it was best to go to PR and not open ones mouth. The result is always a professional acknowledgement of the situation. Followed by yes CSM or whomever. Good luck.

2020-11-27T05:47:16-05:00 2020-11-27T05:47:16-05:00 CPT Private RallyPoint Member 6534230

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I&#39;ll be the one to say it, but if a E8+ came to me and said they were going to sharp shoot my guys, and for me not to tell them he&#39;s coming the first thing I would do is contact my 1SG and say, hey we need to get things dress right dress, and place someone at the door to yell AT EASE when he enters. <br /><br />If the BC told me not to say anything, then yea I wouldn&#39;t say anything. <br /><br />If the CSM doesn&#39;t want me saying anything, well, then don&#39;t tell me either.

2020-11-27T16:01:17-05:00 2020-11-27T16:01:17-05:00 Lt Col Jim Coe 6534354

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I see you&#39;re an E-6, so I&#39;m guessing you are at least a mid-level supervisor and you have Sergeants or DACs that work for you along with junior enlisted. It appears that a senior NCO showed up and was displeased with the service your organization was providing. If you have managed your &quot;section&quot; (I don&#39;t know what your organization might be named in the Army) was correctly managed you should have had a fact-based discussion with the SNCO after you recorded his complaints and recommendations. The best I can do is a generic example since I can&#39;t determine from you profile your job or organization.<br /><br />Assume your Section is tasked to process at least 50 personnel transactions a day. You keep good records and know the Section has processed an average of 53 transactions a day for the last 90 days, but has had an input of 56 transactions a day for those same 90 days. Consequently, there is always a backlog of transactions that can&#39;t be processed the same day. When the SNCO tells you he is upset because his transaction took more than a week to be processed, you can tell him that is normal based on the back log of transactions and the resources available. Additionally, you can let him know if he had talked with you that you could have expedited his transaction if it couldn&#39;t be completed on his timeline to meet mission requirements due to the daily backlog. You could go on to check on the processing time for the transaction in question. Also, you could check to determine if his inputs had any errors that caused delays in processing, etc. Keep this whole discussion fact based with an emphasis on your concern with meeting mission requirements and it&#39;s hard for the SNCO to have firm ground for complaint about your demeanor or management. This fact-based approach to management is essential to operating an efficient and effective section. Performance standards for the Section allow you to set standards for subordinate organizations and for the supervisors working directly for you. This is important for both the military and DAC employees in the organization because they should be evaluated against their capability to meet their assigned performance goals, which are based on the organization performance standards.<br /><br />As for this specific instance, the Army folks in this string have provided you good advice on how to respond to the counseling statement. I encourage you to look at your management techniques to determine if you can effectively account for your unit&#39;s performance to people outside your organization or to your superiors. If not, you need to change the way you manage, so your employees don&#39;t suffer unwarranted or unnecessary criticism.

2020-11-27T16:53:49-05:00 2020-11-27T16:53:49-05:00 LtCol Robert Quinter 6535240

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I&#39;m going to endorse the recommendations of an informal face to face, but add a recommendation. My interpretation of the incident is that you may have reacted inappropriately to the 1stSgts &quot;pop up&quot; visit. I used to use such visits on a regular basis when I had my unit. &quot;Pop ups&quot; have the advantage of revealing the day to day operational atmosphere and minimal time lost at the visited AO; no extended preparations at the AO level in preparation for the visit. As the CO I was always touring my area to see what was going on and to provide my people with the opportunity to gripe or talk without having work up the courage to show up in my office in response to the open door policy. Some of my NCOs and even OICs didn&#39;t particularly like my roaming, but I never came down hard on them for minor issues I might have observed, just discussed them with them. <br />I knew my sections could show well if they expected me, but my pop ups gave me the opportunity to see the unpolished conditions and demonstrated to the people in the visited area that the CO was not some distant individual sitting in an ivory tower. Realizing the CO was interested in what they were doing and the conditions under which they normally worked gave everyone down to the newest Private a feeling of being an important individual in their COs eyes. <br />Some of my NCOs and officers initially reacted to my presence as a threat, but soon realized I wasn&#39;t out to cause them problems. As I said initially, perhaps you reacted as some of my people who felt my pop ups were a threat instead of regarding them as a leadership technique not meant to be a threat to anyone.

2020-11-28T06:13:57-05:00 2020-11-28T06:13:57-05:00 SGM Bill Frazer 6535820

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>And what makes you think that a senior NCO has to tell folks that they are checking on their folks? Read the NCO Creed and NCO job descriptions- all have train, counsel, mentor etc. in them. If you are doing everything you are suppose to then there should be not big deal about it. If their have a list of problems, then you should have already known about them and be fixing them.

2020-11-28T11:55:23-05:00 2020-11-28T11:55:23-05:00 2020-11-26T15:27:43-05:00