How would you handle a subordinate telling you not to contact them after "working hours"?

2017-10-13T01:09:14-04:00

It's 1800 and you just get off work. You let your subordinates go at 1600. You text them reminding them of a personnel inspection tomorrow morning. Your E4 tells you that they "don't need to deal with you outside of working hours" and not to "contact them outside of 0600-1600".

How would you handle this situation?

Response by SN Kevin Neff made Oct 13 at 2017 1:49 AM

2017-10-13T01:49:33-04:00

This new Navy, I tell ya. First off, get old school with him/her and nip that attitude in the bud. They're Navy 24/7 until they're a civilian again. Not from 9-5 or 6-4. This person is an E4, a Petty Officer of the Navy and needs to be held accountable as such.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2017 2:00 AM

2017-10-13T02:00:21-04:00

Significant Emotional Event

Response by SPC Anthony Schepis made Oct 13 at 2017 2:37 AM

2017-10-13T02:37:16-04:00

I’ve never met or heard of any lower enlisted SM stupid enough to say that to NCOs or officers. If someone said that they need to be given a homework assignment on the articles of UCMJ so they can wake up to reality.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2017 2:47 AM

2017-10-13T02:47:07-04:00

You might want to kindly remind them that the military works 24/7. COB might mark the end of the business day but it can quickly be revoked.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2017 2:54 AM

2017-10-13T02:54:47-04:00

I would put them on duty from 0400-0000 to see how they like those working hours.

Response by SSG James Behnke made Oct 13 at 2017 3:38 AM

2017-10-13T03:38:08-04:00

Step 1: Put phone down before it goes through the wall.

Step 2: Immediately draft a very detailed counseling statement on your expectations of the service-member, because it is very clear they have no idea what even the simplest implied standards are (like wearing a uniform).

Step 3: Prepare for follow on counseling statements, and ensure you take an active role in the implementation.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2017 5:21 AM

2017-10-13T05:21:35-04:00

I'd respond to this, but then words like "premeditated" would start getting thrown around in court.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Oct 13 at 2017 5:39 AM

2017-10-13T05:39:46-04:00

If possible, K P for a couple of days, not let them go as early, and set them down and remind them how's their supervisor.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2017 6:17 AM

2017-10-13T06:17:02-04:00

Seems to be a good time to have the motorpool swept and all the vehicles washed. work his tail from 0600 to 1900, give them 30 mins for breakfast, lunch and dinner, see how they like that for a week.

Response by TSgt Johnnie Keller made Oct 13 at 2017 6:20 AM

2017-10-13T06:20:33-04:00

I would tell him that the upcoming Friday night and the whole weekend will be devoted to extra training for him. This will help him to remember the importance of paying attention to detail and that full field layouts are needed to make absolutely sure he knows how to do those inspections properly.

Response by SCPO Jason McLaughlin made Oct 13 at 2017 6:47 AM

2017-10-13T06:47:21-04:00

This seems like a perfect opportunity for 8 hours of EMI (Extra Military Instruction). I do believe that mustering with the OOD at 1700, 1800, 1900, 2000, 2100, and 2145 (right before taps), in a different uniform, for 4 days straight, might teach the individual what defines working hours, and proper interaction with seniors.

Response by MAJ Thomas Amsler made Oct 13 at 2017 7:10 AM

2017-10-13T07:10:04-04:00

Not a problem. When I was on active duty, working hours were 24-7-365.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Oct 13 at 2017 7:33 AM

2017-10-13T07:33:21-04:00

That would not have ended well for the individual that felt he/she could ignore the communication. We are on duty 24-7-365. You could even be called back from leave.

Response by Christopher Hudson made Oct 13 at 2017 7:40 AM

2017-10-13T07:40:47-04:00

Good to go. Pre inspection is now. Go-ahead and be UA and you will be charged and have a full wall locker inspection at 0630 Saturday morning.

Response by SFC Oz David Charles Osborne Oz made Oct 13 at 2017 8:08 AM

2017-10-13T08:08:17-04:00

So much great advice being given here. Anything I suggest would be redundant. I am curious what option you chose to use or if you came up with your own plan. At minimum the counseling statement needs to be very detailed and I would like you to email me a copy of your draft. I would like to offer to “edit” some stuff in there. Call me. [login to see]

Response by SFC Dennis A. made Oct 13 at 2017 8:14 AM

2017-10-13T08:14:53-04:00

Unless something has changes since I got out, you are in and on call 24/7. I guess when we were finished working and training on the subject it would be a lesson they would not soon forget.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Oct 13 at 2017 8:22 AM

2017-10-13T08:22:49-04:00

ENS Private RallyPoint Member Your E4 tells you that they "don't need to deal with you outside of working hours" and not to "contact them outside of 0600-1600".
How do you handle this? "

How? Id handle it once, and only once in a quite, calm discussion assuming the person was dropped on their head as a baby and needs a little extra help to understand the life and system they raised their right hand and volunteered to be part of works.

If a second time was needed, well that would depend on the SM..If I felt some Special High Intensity Training would actually modify their behavior I might invest time and effort in them.. If I felt they were just out to be a problem child, knew what they were doing was wrong...Id record, correct, record, correct, record and then work with the CDR to separate from service. Waaaay too many good Soldiers out there to waste time on a few problem children.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2017 8:56 AM

2017-10-13T08:56:52-04:00

Are there really soldiers/sailors/airmen out there dumb enough to reply like this?? I am so glad I am retired.

Response by Cpl Adam Rooney made Oct 13 at 2017 9:00 AM

2017-10-13T09:00:11-04:00

Have an extra rough pt session in the morning

Response by Sgt John Steinmeier made Oct 13 at 2017 9:04 AM

2017-10-13T09:04:09-04:00

The possibilities are endless, already so many good suggestions with SCPO Jason McLaughlin idea being a good starting place.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2017 9:24 AM

2017-10-13T09:24:34-04:00

George, are you the CE LPO?

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Oct 13 at 2017 9:25 AM

2017-10-13T09:25:47-04:00

Especially if we are talking Active Duty here, I'd remind said subordinate, that this aint McDonalds, and their sad, sorry ass is bought & paid for by Uncle Sam, and the very concept of "duty hours" is merely a pleasant suggestion and subject to change on a whim; it's not a damn mandate!

If that don't work, crush their soul with a smile.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Oct 13 at 2017 9:31 AM

2017-10-13T09:31:31-04:00

If I was a PL and this happened, I would pass this along to my Platoon Sergeant, who I'm sure would "sort it all out" to put it nicely. I was blessed to always have awesome NCOs around me in the Army.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2017 9:42 AM

2017-10-13T09:42:39-04:00

What's the difficulty? Show them the regulation which states your authority to assign them duties outside the hours of 06:00-16:00. Seems pretty simple.

Response by PO1 Don Gulizia made Oct 13 at 2017 10:36 AM

2017-10-13T10:36:43-04:00

Counseling chit reminding them they are active duty 24/7. I would also assign them the new title of "contact petty officer." Every time some sort of change in schedule needs to be passed (after normal work hours), your E4 will be the one contacting everyone to pass the word.

Response by SPC Wanda Vergara-Yates made Oct 13 at 2017 10:38 AM

2017-10-13T10:38:12-04:00

WOW. I would first ask what military they think they had joined, and second, remind them that part of their responsibility is to be informed as much as possible about issues specifically relating to their role in the unit. Finally, I would prepare a written counseling statement that covers the letter of the law regarding these things and present it to the solider immediately after the inspection is over the next day. Other measures would depend on how quickly the E4 realized their error and corrected it.

Response by SGT Jim Ramge, MBA made Oct 13 at 2017 11:14 AM

2017-10-13T11:14:06-04:00

Makes complete sense to me. Isn’t this the same era that needs an APP to do chores, homework and wipe their ass? We need a 24/7 APP that “permits” time off, once granted, between 1700-0600.

Response by SMSgt Thor Merich made Oct 13 at 2017 11:14 AM

2017-10-13T11:14:34-04:00

This poor chap is testing the waters. The proper response is critical. If he gets away with it all his buddies will do the same.

My advice is old school, everyone in his unit/section gets extra duty. Let everyone know why they are working later than usual. Let his peers provide him with a little guidance.

If that fails, then go "new school" with a counseling letter etc....

Response by SSG Diane R. made Oct 13 at 2017 11:19 AM

2017-10-13T11:19:37-04:00

A week on KP Duty might be appropriate. The little snot needs to be reminded that this is the army and they own his ass. Lol

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2017 11:23 AM

2017-10-13T11:23:03-04:00

Call him so there is no doubt he was contacted. If he failed to answer his phone, pay him a visit. Advise him that his inspection has been moved up to 0600 and you were giving him a direct order that this is his appointed place of duty. After personally conducting his inspection, provide him with a small laminated copy of his Oath of Enlistment to carry on his person until his attitude changed. Periodically have him recite his Oath from memory and if he can't, award him some EMI (extra military instruction) to correct his deficiencies. As long as the EMI deals with his shortcomings and doesn't otherwise violate the UCMJ, it is valid. If his attitude didn't change, his days of being an NCO would be numbered. I wouldn't expect anyone to tolerate that from a boot and certainly not from an NCO. I don't understand the concept of leadership by text messages, but times change I guess. I don't think a USMC NCO would try to pull a stunt like this but have been out nearly 20 years so I'm probably wrong. In my day he would be referred to as a "sea lawyer", or "on the path to becoming a LCpl".

Response by SFC William Nichols made Oct 13 at 2017 11:42 AM

2017-10-13T11:42:13-04:00

It's all fine. You give him the task, along with everyone else, at 1630 (COB) and let it go. Next day, during said task, if that SM misses 1 thing, DROP THE HAMMER! Then you start giving them a new specified task at different hours of the day. They're only required 4 hours continuous sleep if I'm not mistaken.

Response by COL David Turk made Oct 13 at 2017 11:45 AM

2017-10-13T11:45:23-04:00

A "subtle" reminder that we are "on duty 24 hours a day".

The question; how subtle?

Response by SMSgt Mark Gildersleeve made Oct 13 at 2017 11:56 AM

2017-10-13T11:56:26-04:00

I once had a subordinate tell me I couldn't tell her what to do after duty hours. Fortunately for her, her supervisor saw the interaction And did some in depth counseling. Never had the issue again.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2017 12:22 PM

2017-10-13T12:22:40-04:00

I would tell them they're a salaried employee of the US Government and that they don't have set working hours. Although it wouldn't be that polite. There would likely be some corrective training involved as well.

Response by 1LT Aaron Barr made Oct 13 at 2017 12:30 PM

2017-10-13T12:30:07-04:00

I would forward the conversation to his NCO and suggest that he be as creative as he likes in imposing corrective training.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2017 12:30 PM

2017-10-13T12:30:54-04:00

While I can see their point. No one likes being bothered after work. Especially if it's something that could be brought up during work/duty hours. That being said, the military is a different beast from the civilian sector. It's 24/7/365 like it or not. Don't be a piss poor planner and wait until after you dismiss someone to have a good idea fairy moment unless it's necessary. No one likes that guy. You stayed late for 2 hours, you could have dismissed them and told them to come back for the inspection and all left together. Build esprit de corps and have a drink off duty or play some pool.

Nope. That'd be too easy. Just my two cents. I personally can't stand stupidity and lack of common sense. I can't stand when I do stupid things let alone someone else's ineptitude.

Response by AN Kenneth Carpenter made Oct 13 at 2017 12:55 PM

2017-10-13T12:55:28-04:00

I could not get away with that with my civilian job in L.E. unless I wanted to look for somewhere else to work. When I was active I knew that Uncle Sam had me 24/7/365 no if, and or but.

Response by SP5 Peter Keane made Oct 13 at 2017 1:25 PM

2017-10-13T13:25:25-04:00

Why didn't you say something to your subordinates @ 1600 when you released them for the day ? As noted by SGM Marquez, you are part of the problem.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2017 1:36 PM

2017-10-13T13:36:42-04:00

When did active duty become the National Guard Technician program? lol

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Oct 13 at 2017 1:38 PM

2017-10-13T13:38:42-04:00

First of all, that is one brazen and rude attitude and an "attitude adjustment" like extra duty, taking a rank, or anything else would fix that.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2017 1:48 PM

2017-10-13T13:48:19-04:00

Or you could just pull the stick out of your ass and smoke him for like 5-10 minutes. Should get the point across.

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Oct 13 at 2017 1:49 PM

2017-10-13T13:49:33-04:00

ENS Private RallyPoint Member I believe that just about everyone that responded to you covered just about everything they would or could do with this E-4. I've never had a situation like this happen to me when I was SSG/E-6 or even a junior officer (2LT/1LT). I consider this First Line Leadership Enlisted business for sure and immediate and corrective action should be & would be taken by this individual's first chain of command NCO ASAP.

Response by Cpl Tou Lee Yang made Oct 13 at 2017 2:09 PM

2017-10-13T14:09:38-04:00

There's no need to jump through hoops to make anyone life a living hell because they might commit suicide and you have to explained why they kill themselves. I used to work directly for a full bird Colonel and he told me that there's only two motivating factor in a troop's life. Their money and liberty. All you have to do is explained to them how you have the power to influence either or both and they will quickly grasp the concept.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2017 2:12 PM

2017-10-13T14:12:41-04:00

First off I WILL NOT get upset with the SM as it's nothing to get my BP up over. However, I would see this as both a teaching & learning moment. It's obvious that the SM doesn't understand why their NCO is calling them "after hours." They would receive a counselling statement, not positive or negative, but just one to outline that they did not fully understand their duty as a service member and the action plan to help correct the deficiency. This may or may not include them coming in earlier &/or staying later.

I would start by asking which part of the constitution they swore an oath to up & have them go not just read it in its entirety, which is all of Title 10, which includes UMCJ. They would learn it so that they can give a thorough presentation of what they learned to first myself, followed by the rest of their peers once I deemed they had learned sufficient knowledge about.

I'd finish by having them see things from my POV from the technical to the legal aspect of why I am contacting them at various hours throughout the day. That SM has to understand that if they are going to be a leader one day they are going to be doing the same thing, but not for the hell of it. It's done for whatever specific reason the individuals higher than yourself deem it necessary. Hopefully, all of this helps not only them understand, but this moment of learning will teach their peers the same as well.

If that doesn't work, I guess the good old group punishment will have to do. Let's see if their peers like staying later than everyone else in the unit because of that SM couldn't keep their mouth shut. If the behavior continues, involuntary separation will have the be last option.

Response by SCPO William Akin made Oct 13 at 2017 2:12 PM

2017-10-13T14:12:57-04:00

'Back in the day' I'd have started by losing his/her 'liberty card'.. Things would have gotten much harsher from that point forward...
Of course 'back in the day' we didn't do "text''

Response by SSG Joseph VanDyck made Oct 13 at 2017 3:47 PM

2017-10-13T15:47:04-04:00

Sweat Equity all damned night. After letting the first shirt and smaj know about it.

Response by TSgt Kerry Hardy made Oct 13 at 2017 3:51 PM

2017-10-13T15:51:15-04:00

Why are you contacting them SM after duty hours? If you have military business fine but if you are just contacting to push their buttons then you are a poor leader and reason they made that statement. Why would a SM tell leadership that? Find out reason to their statement before going all " I will PT you til you puck" on them....

Response by SSG Robert Webster made Oct 13 at 2017 3:52 PM

2017-10-13T15:52:00-04:00

I would educate that soldier on the appropriate regulation and what it states about a regular pass.

In the Army it is AR 600-8-10, and the appropriate paragraph is:
c. A soldier remains in an available-for-duty-status during normal off duty hours unless absence is authorized.

So if he mouths off revoke the pass.

Response by Capt Joel Dougherty made Oct 13 at 2017 4:01 PM

2017-10-13T16:01:06-04:00

I'm guessing that 24/7/365 is still drilled in their head during boot camp (it was for me back in 1974) and this E4 had a sudden lapse of memory. I've read down through the thread and found dozens of interesting remedies. Any one of them works for me.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2017 4:11 PM

2017-10-13T16:11:28-04:00

Geez so many responses already.
I started to think of this from a private industry point of view. If one of my subordinates said that they would receive corrective action or possibly be out of a job depending on the employer. It always baffles me when people don't understand how the real world works (speaking to the sm not to be contacted outside 6-1600).

Response by CSM Eric Biggs made Oct 13 at 2017 4:14 PM

2017-10-13T16:14:40-04:00

A couple things to note: 1. Did you know about tomorrow's inspection before you released your subordinates? If you did this is your mistake. However you rectified it by texting and providing the information. 2. You did not need to remind your subordinates of an inspection, they should always be ready for one, this was a courtesy.
Now to correct this E4. I would immediately tell him/her they had 1hr to meet me in the company area. During that hour I would inform household 6 I would be extremely late tonight. I would also write up a counseling quoting their "duty hour" from the regs, and explaining what it actually means. This would be read to him first thing. Next we would move into copious amounts of PT, one exercise for each point they made, and one exercise for each one of my counter points. We would continue until I was satisfied the pints had sunk in. I would have a full water buffalo on hand, and a cot set aside to allow 1 hr of sleep every 2-3 hours throughout the night if it took that long. If this individual is especially hard headed I would ensure I allowed them to sleep approximately 1 hour before the command team normally arrives at work the next morning. We may have to continue the training after COB the following day. I can also have the commander remove rank, take time and money from this individual. The biggest offense this E4 committed was telling a superior what to do, and did so with a very bad attitude. These SM need to remember they work at the pleasure of the people of this country and may be asked to work straight for 365 days a year for the length of their enlistment, with only 4 hours of sleep in a 24 hour period; these 4 hours do not have to be in a row.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2017 5:18 PM

2017-10-13T17:18:06-04:00

Inform them that enlistment is a 24/7 commitment. Even in the guard. Sure, we have civilian jobs and schedules and it is fine to respect that, as a leader, but if they tell me to not contact them for whatever reason, that is a no go. I don't mind waiting for a response to a text, or a call back, when they aren't busy with work or whatever, it if I have to contact them outside of drill or the otherwise duty day, then it is usually important or beneficial to their career. As a leader, I feel obligated to give those appointed under me, every opportunity to progress and further their career and I am usually on the look out for those opportunities, but if they tell me not to contact them for whatever reason, then they will learn fast how the military works.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Oct 13 at 2017 5:18 PM

2017-10-13T17:18:21-04:00

Close Order Drill 1545 -1800, let the others know

Response by SPC Rob Lewis made Oct 13 at 2017 5:31 PM

2017-10-13T17:31:38-04:00

A few 23 hour days of grass drills and smoke sessions

Response by PO1 John Johnson made Oct 13 at 2017 5:39 PM

2017-10-13T17:39:09-04:00

I'm not sure how to begin answering this question. Is this a rhetorical question or an actual event that happened? Did this happen to the question presenter?

I hope not, but if so, the logical answer is to put them E-6 chevrons to work and get medieval on the E-4. Has the USN gone so PC that E-6's & 5's are effectively castrated?

May I suggest a Mentor; preferably of a higher rank and with quite a few more years with time in service? Find the crustiest Chief, Senior Chief or Master Chief, latch on, and pay attention when they pass on the gems.

Might be time for the USN to bring back the Acey-Duecy Clubs, where this kind of question would get asked and answered in a private setting.

I'm left shaking my head.

Response by SFC James Liedtka made Oct 13 at 2017 5:49 PM

2017-10-13T17:49:50-04:00

Um, remind them the job is 24/7 and hold them late every night till they get their head out of their ass.

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Oct 13 at 2017 5:51 PM

2017-10-13T17:51:01-04:00

Find your nearest Chief, or Gunny, and seek direction. Someone obviously has a problem with rank structure.

Response by LTC Russ Smith made Oct 13 at 2017 6:02 PM

2017-10-13T18:02:52-04:00

You're a soldier 24 hours a day. A few consecutive days of pulling all night duty should remind him.

Response by SGT Tony Clifford made Oct 13 at 2017 6:03 PM

2017-10-13T18:03:14-04:00

My response would be to show up in the barracks and conduct a room inspection. Of course, whilst there I might have a few words for the young troop about how that response implies that they're going to fail to maintain a line of communication and as such that might lead to troubles for them. Then again I might write them up for disrespect to a non-commissioned officer. That really depends on whether or not their text was a joke or an act of defiance. I might decide to have my wife send me a change of clothes and a hygiene bag in case I decide to put in the extra effort of working the young soldier through the night, obviously with the PSG & 1SGs approval. After all I'm sure his room, uniforms, gear and barracks as a whole could use some TLC.

Response by Jerry Rivas made Oct 13 at 2017 6:43 PM

2017-10-13T18:43:55-04:00

Find something unpleasant for him to do until 23:55 every day for a week. Remind him he is on duty 24/7/365.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Oct 13 at 2017 7:03 PM

2017-10-13T19:03:59-04:00

I would take it to the next higher level whether it's the NCO above him or the SNCO above him. Because here's the big thing... if he cops that attitude with you, then what kind of attitude do you think he's giving to his subordinates.

I've been that NCO who has gotten the call at 2-3 in the morning because a Junior Marine made a bad choice and needed help. I've got a family. Yeah it sucks, but I was still there for my Marine because he was my Marine.

So how many of his junior troops has he potentially blown off when they needed his help...

This is a firm example of toxic leadership. If he doesn't want to be a leader, then he doesn't need to wear the rank. I would even show that text to the SNCO because then it's more than a he said/she said situation.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Oct 13 at 2017 7:36 PM

2017-10-13T19:36:45-04:00

If everybody involved is active duty, my next move is a phone call to the E4 ordering him to meet me in my office at 0500 the next day. I would make sure he acknowledged the direct order. The next morning counseling would start.

Response by SSG Steven Mangus made Oct 13 at 2017 8:38 PM

2017-10-13T20:38:14-04:00

Hmm! Last time I checked as a member of the Armed Forces your on duty 24 hours a day..it is only by the grace of the Department of Defense that they can change into civilian clothes and have a life outside the military.

Response by CW3 Kim B. made Oct 13 at 2017 10:28 PM

2017-10-13T22:28:08-04:00

Duty rosters may have his name on top for awhile....just sayin' there might be some special tasks that need his expertise ;-)

Response by MSgt Bruce Hutchinson made Oct 13 at 2017 10:43 PM

2017-10-13T22:43:54-04:00

Since duty hours are set by the NCO, my subordinate's hours would be changed drastically.

Response by SSG Trenton Nabb made Oct 13 at 2017 11:41 PM

2017-10-13T23:41:17-04:00

A solider is on duty 24-7, 365.

Response by SPC Darren Coffenberry made Oct 14 at 2017 12:50 AM

2017-10-14T00:50:39-04:00

24/7-365...That is what being active is all about...You don't get to say things like this knowing you signed a dotted line to defend a nation....Security NEVER sleeps..And are subject to be called up at anytime up to and including every single second you are under an active oath of enlistment.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2017 2:18 AM

2017-10-14T02:18:09-04:00

I would tell them that they have no option. Duty hours does not cancel Soldier hours.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2017 2:39 AM

2017-10-14T02:39:39-04:00

oh my i know better than that to say to my senior enlisted not to call this junior enlisted forgot that he belongs to uncle sam and not to himself, counseling statement and his senior enlisted wants to be anal put him on the worst detail then tell him he needs to come back in dress uniform, pt, whichever desire his heart.

Response by SSgt Jim Gilmore made Oct 14 at 2017 3:10 AM

2017-10-14T03:10:29-04:00

I'd remind them they are on call 24/7/365 until discharged. If they don't like it, run it up the flag pole (chain of command).

Response by 1SG Nick Baker made Oct 14 at 2017 3:34 AM

2017-10-14T03:34:56-04:00

I do not know the whole situation, but: Why is a leader putting themselves in the position of looking like an idiot and micromanaging. Everyone points to the junior enlisted first. How did this situation get to this point? Never had an NCO call me after hours for that BS.

Response by PFC Emmitt Williams made Oct 14 at 2017 4:28 AM

2017-10-14T04:28:21-04:00

Iron mikes.

Response by MSgt John Taylor made Oct 14 at 2017 8:13 AM

2017-10-14T08:13:10-04:00

“Your on the clock 24/7, unless you’re on leave. Are you asking me for leave?”

Response by SSG Jessica Bautista made Oct 14 at 2017 9:09 AM

2017-10-14T09:09:24-04:00

Send individual text messages for each word of the NCO Creed.

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Oct 14 at 2017 10:06 AM

2017-10-14T10:06:44-04:00

I see via your profile your branch is IT and I had to laugh. It's not even reality to think your job ends at 5:00 p.m. for that field and if it was it would mean the IT system your supporting is not even that critical. Any critical IT system that is supported you need to be ready to be called at 2-3 a.m. and help get anything that is broke working again. That's real life for IT and it is also 24 by 7 and even some Holidays. You get lots of vacation and comp time for it though........just like the Navy. I'm sure if you do an all nighter in Navy IT they give you a day off at some point.

Response by CSM Thomas McGarry made Oct 14 at 2017 12:16 PM

2017-10-14T12:16:47-04:00

I'm assuming this is a joke-Right?

Response by Frank Clay made Oct 14 at 2017 5:54 PM

2017-10-14T17:54:07-04:00

Since when does the military have working hours?

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Oct 14 at 2017 5:59 PM

2017-10-14T17:59:46-04:00

"Oh really? Pass privilege's are suspended, report tot he first Sergeant for a barracks room assignment. I will be here when you get here to sign your counseling statement, don't keep me waiting."

Response by 1SG Nick Baker made Oct 14 at 2017 7:14 PM

2017-10-14T19:14:03-04:00

" I was told there would be an inspection the next morning and to make sure a certain Sailor of mine trimmed his out of regs beard". Apparently there was a new standard or culture. The sailor was not put in check when the problem first arose. I am not trying to bust your chops, but discipline belongs to the NCOs. I would take responsibility and fix the issue. You do not have to be an a-hole to fix the problem.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 15 at 2017 7:39 PM

2017-10-15T19:39:29-04:00

Remind them that they're property, not people.

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 15 at 2017 9:05 PM

2017-10-15T21:05:11-04:00

Well... EMI sounds perfect for this. The ungrateful E4 is being disrespectful to the superior. Depending on how bad this individuals record is, there are articles to deal wit this both as enlisted and officer. We would be bad leaders to just not contact him. So let’s train him...

Response by CSM William Payne made Oct 15 at 2017 9:25 PM

2017-10-15T21:25:35-04:00

I would explain to them that being in the military is a 24 x 7, 365 day a year job. Then I'd have them report to the duty officer, CQ, whomever had overnight responsibility every hour on the hour, in uniform to reinforce that fact. If they showed up late for any reporting, rinse and repeat. That should get the point across.

When deployed, only my "inside the wire" Soldiers even gave it a thought that there was "off duty time". Spent a lot getting that thought process corrected.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 16 at 2017 8:07 AM

2017-10-16T08:07:16-04:00

Did I just hear someone volunteer for CQ on Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday, and next Saturday? Cool, I'll make it happen.

Response by 1SG John B. Enlow made Oct 16 at 2017 9:15 PM

2017-10-16T21:15:59-04:00

Good Lord! I retired in 1995. This actually happens?

Response by PO2 Norbeft Huber made Nov 24 at 2017 1:24 AM

2017-11-24T01:24:03-05:00

I would remind him /her that their work hours started when they took the oath and will end when they get a discharge

Response by SSG David Dickson made Dec 28 at 2017 12:56 AM

2017-12-28T00:56:44-05:00

I would "aknowledge" their point. Then I would inform them that they are, after having being dismissed for the day to text me every half hour until 2200 for the next 3-5 business days. This would of vourse be acvompanied by a written counseling that would be referred for further action to command if not fully and faithfully complied with. 24/7 Hooah.

Response by SSG David Dickson made Dec 28 at 2017 12:59 AM

2017-12-28T00:59:31-05:00

4 hrs.meets the standard

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2018 12:04 AM

2018-01-16T00:04:33-05:00

Wow, you are all ridiculous.... this is why we have a HUGE retainment problem in our military. Quit treating people like sheep and actually lead. Stop with the bullshit power trips, and lead. Learn how to exert influence instead of positional power..... then you can actually be leaders....

Response by SSG Grant Mastin made Mar 1 at 2018 8:40 PM

2018-03-01T20:40:10-05:00

You are in the United States Military. YOU are on call 24/7-365 a year. THERE IS NO AFTER WORK HOURS !!

Response by PO1 Tim Martin made Mar 1 at 2018 8:40 PM

2018-03-01T20:40:34-05:00

I would let it go for the night so he would think well I told him and in the morning I would rip him a new ass and instill in him your in the military 24-7

Response by 1stSgt Clay Henderson made Mar 1 at 2018 9:00 PM

2018-03-01T21:00:35-05:00

The Marine Corps had two types of NJP; the CO's which went in your record book, and the 1stSgt's. The latter was usually for two weeks from 1700-2100. There are a lot of things that needed to be done after working hours.....just ask any 1stSgt. The 1stSgt's didn't go in your record book, and didn't hurt your promotions.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2018 9:03 PM

2018-03-01T21:03:32-05:00

Restrict him to the barracks.

Response by LTC Ronald Stephens made Mar 1 at 2018 9:10 PM

2018-03-01T21:10:51-05:00

On one of my assignments our Bn had an option called School of the Soldier. It was a form of non-judicial punishment that didn't become part of the soldier's record as the article 15 had recently become. It consisted of real training but was mind numbing it its repetitive nature. If you were an NCO and need a bit of attitude adjustment you were the instructor. We actually had troops ask for an Article 15 to avoid school of the soldier. That young E4 would have been a prime candidate as that would have taken all of a Saturday.

Response by Maj John Bell made Mar 1 at 2018 9:47 PM

2018-03-01T21:47:25-05:00

He would see something like this:

Response by SFC John Potts made Mar 1 at 2018 9:53 PM

2018-03-01T21:53:14-05:00

Well, only an idiot would do that in the Army I served in. Having an E-4 dig an FM Mortar Pit reminds him of who the top dog really is. You can't have them dig latrines anymore, I wouldn't think.

Response by TSgt Wayne Cartier made Mar 1 at 2018 10:00 PM

2018-03-01T22:00:45-05:00

you work 24/7 and are a salaried worker. By the way, I missed your time card. Mail your time card from Afganistan to verify your overtime.

Response by LTC Leon Kircher made Mar 1 at 2018 10:02 PM

2018-03-01T22:02:11-05:00

Change duty hours

Response by SFC Greg Bruorton made Mar 1 at 2018 10:04 PM

2018-03-01T22:04:42-05:00

That's laughable! If the E4 passes the inspection in the morning I would still offer corrective counseling along with painting the rocks and raking the gravel all day. If the fellow does not pass inspection then I would start making lists of all the things I would assign him--after the chewing.

p.s. Did you create that cartoon? How did you load it--like any other photo?

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Mar 1 at 2018 10:15 PM

2018-03-01T22:15:18-05:00

Re: "...not to contact them after "working hours"?" Since the PO3 doesn't want you to contact him after 1600, I would contact him at 0400 and give him the information that he needs.

Response by Capt Nancy Kasper made Mar 1 at 2018 10:34 PM

2018-03-01T22:34:33-05:00

There is nothing in your contract that says you have specific working hours. Military personnel are on duty 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year. This includes weekends and holidays.

Response by Mark Ritchie made Mar 1 at 2018 10:37 PM

2018-03-01T22:37:12-05:00

Explain to them why and tell them who, what when why and never let them off at 1600 again. The problem will solve itself.

Response by 1SG Alejandro Tapiro Jr. made Mar 1 at 2018 11:40 PM

2018-03-01T23:40:44-05:00

This is easy I would go back to the barracks and call a formation and get all of them ready for a night mission drill and tell all why that as a soldier you are on duty 24 hours a day and you have just earn your selves a field excersise at the hand of this private or whom ever sent me the message 0600 to 1600

Response by PFC Virgil Burnett made Mar 2 at 2018 12:40 AM

2018-03-02T00:40:19-05:00

I don't care who you are that's funny right there.

Response by CWO2 Russell Hoover made Mar 2 at 2018 1:26 AM

2018-03-02T01:26:09-05:00

Is this before or after I reach through the phone and pull him through it?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2018 4:52 AM

2018-03-02T04:52:44-05:00

I mean you're a soldier 24/7. This isn't your average job

Response by Lt Col Charlie Brown made Mar 2 at 2018 7:54 AM

2018-03-02T07:54:38-05:00

A conversation with everyone, either before or after inspection, reminding them, there are no set hours and the mission comes first. Anyone not happy with that doesn't have to re-up. Might even have to prove that with a little extra duty during non contact hours, LOL.

Response by SSG Jose M. Hernandezsanchez made Mar 2 at 2018 8:07 AM

2018-03-02T08:07:29-05:00

PO1 Martin,
This SM is lucky my hand can't fit through the phone because someone would be grabbed by the neck. Then again, I would probably wait until the next day and have a closed door discussion about the fact that we don't work at Burger King.

Response by Maj Marty Hogan made Mar 2 at 2018 8:52 AM

2018-03-02T08:52:44-05:00

I thought AD was on 24/7? That changed since I got out? Odd that we have regressed to worrying about one's feelings instead of the mission.

Now as a dual status technician I would put down comp time if you need to contact me on my time.

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter SrA Christopher Wright Sgt Randy Wilber SGT Gregory Lawritson Cpl Private RallyPoint Member Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth LTC Private RallyPoint Member MSG Frederick Otero SFC Pete Kain SSG David Andrews LCDR Private RallyPoint Member PO1 Tony Holland SCPO Morris Ramsey SPC Margaret Higgins SGT Jim Arnold SFC William H. PO1 William "Chip" Nagel SGT Charles H. Hawes CPL Dave Hoover TSgt Joe C.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Mar 2 at 2018 9:02 AM

2018-03-02T09:02:57-05:00

The Military is 24hrs a day and no time clock. Set down with the individual and use counseling to make them aware 24/7 life the Military leads. explain that the enemy DOES NOT care what time it is.

Response by SCPO Morris Ramsey made Mar 2 at 2018 9:04 AM

2018-03-02T09:04:45-05:00

Not on my ship; not in my Navy.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2018 10:28 AM

2018-03-02T10:28:37-05:00

I never contact anyone after duty hours. But, remember, you are on duty 24/7 365 days a year. 366 in leap years.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2018 10:31 AM

2018-03-02T10:31:25-05:00

Things must have changed a lot more than I imagined.

Given that we live in a new age of "fairness"...with consequences for being a hard-arse...I'd verify what your limits are when that member is "on the clock", and make sure they have a "full day".

Response by LCpl Shane Couch made Mar 2 at 2018 10:34 AM

2018-03-02T10:34:20-05:00

In active duty, I didn't know there was such a thing as an "outside of working hours". As an active duty service member there is no such thing as after hours or off work. Even when you are on leave you are representing your/our country. Remind them of this. And weekend duty seems like it could be in their near future, especially if they had plans for said weekend.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2018 10:57 AM

2018-03-02T10:57:50-05:00

So many great ideas. I am just here eating popcorn being entertained. Sometimes I wonder why they are bringing DS back to Army AIT. Then I read stuff like this and I'm fully reminded.

Response by MSG Mark Million made Mar 2 at 2018 11:10 AM

2018-03-02T11:10:07-05:00

Being a National Guard Soldier at this time this is a much trickier situation than for an active duty soldier. True you are a Soldier 24/7 in either situation, however if the issue were to appear before JAG in a reserve forces setting, I believe that short of mobilization orders mandating time for reserve soldiers is difficult to enforce outside of paid time. Though disrespect such as is evidenced in such a reply could probably be addressed in counseling.

Response by Cpl Mark A. Morris made Mar 2 at 2018 11:24 AM

2018-03-02T11:24:07-05:00

The problem with the military is they let too many dam civilians in!

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Mar 2 at 2018 12:09 PM

2018-03-02T12:09:07-05:00

Have said E4 get back into uniform (reporting to the company AO), bring all the rest of his uniforms, and do random uniform inspections finding every deficiency possible and having said E4 strip the uniform down and put it together until you're satisfied he understands "His time is MY time". The EASIEST way to get a Soldiers attention is on the ribbons. There is a "V" in all ribbons and it has to be going up. Most don't know about that, and is an easy gig. Second would be those who don't know the wheat grows up. Too easy. For Soldiers, I would have a 4856 ready for signature by us, and in corrective training, the Soldier would perform uniform inspections on his peers, along with random inspections I do to him at random times AFTER the duty day. He also would be best serve before showing up to where I told him to be with crisp uniforms albeit Mucti-cams. They don't get ironed. If the Soldier wants to write a rebuttal, I'd afford him the chance, and would forward it to the PSG/1SG for visibility. I'm taking "personnel inspection" meaning serviceability of a particular uniform in this post. The "corrective training" in my example would justify and support the 4856. With the leaders I had, even though I've done my part, I can guarantee it's not over for him. He'll be at the next "BN All Hands" teaching with Soldiers as examples the "do's" and "don'ts" regarding AR670-1, AR600-20, and Arts 88,92, and 134. They are also very important and tie into his vocal insubordination. Lastly in the follow up block, I'd write either the Soldier has complied and made sufficient progress in fixing his issues, or Solder has failed XXX times to get the situation right and will be forwarding to the PSG/1SG for action.

At the rate I'm going I'm going to have to charge RP money for me listing all of my mistakes on here.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Mar 2 at 2018 12:13 PM

2018-03-02T12:13:10-05:00

Working hours are 0001-2400 7 days per week and 365 days per year till they ETS. Banker hours are for bankers. Then put a foot up their 4th POC for telling superior what they and can't do with their subordinates ( unless it's outside regs).

Response by SSG Ronald Bloodworth made Mar 2 at 2018 1:53 PM

2018-03-02T13:53:01-05:00

Oh my Gawd!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA
My soldiers would never have even contemplated something like that. Now leave is a different issue. I wouldn’t have bothered one of my soldiers on leave unless it was good news or was of crucial import. My soldiers knew I considered “off duty” their time unless I needed them for some unforeseen issue that was mission oriented.
That being the case, every soldier I served with also knew that they soldiers 24/7 whether on duty or not and they could be called upon or contacted at any time of the day or night, and were required to keep me advised of their whereabouts for the most part. In return I made myself available for my soldiers 23/7/365 and none of my soldiers ever went anywhere without having my contact information in case I was needed, even if it meant crawling out of bed at “Oh God Thirty”
And picking them up from a club or bar somewhere. Now, did I chew into some asses at times? You’re damn right I did, but I also praised them for not stepping on their junk and end up with me being called by the CO or 1SG after it was too late.
I even had a soldier tell me once, “You can chew my ass all you want, Sarge. You’re there every time we call for help and you give a f**k about us. You’re still gonna be the first call I make whether you rip me a new ass or not.
If one had ever told me they didn’t need to deal with me off duty and not to contact them between one time and another, I can say with certainty that would have been the first and last time it ever happened....lol

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2018 2:14 PM

2018-03-02T14:14:14-05:00

Sounds like someone volunteered for CQ and Guard Duty along with some health and welfare checks.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2018 3:13 PM

2018-03-02T15:13:45-05:00

Just kindly and professionally remind your juniors that they are in military, meaning they are all call 24/7. Many of us have been recalled from leave for whatever reason. So, their 'off-hour' mentality is not valid. Then confirm them that you do not care if you have a chance to hang out with them. Neither do you want to be instrusive about their privacy. Finally, tell them that if they have the same response next time, get ready for consequences (be as specific as possible).

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Mar 2 at 2018 3:20 PM

2018-03-02T15:20:04-05:00

Guard Duty, you must have something that needs guarding

Response by SPC Andrew Ross made Mar 2 at 2018 3:22 PM

2018-03-02T15:22:39-05:00

"You know you're wrong, and you know where you belong... so get on down!" Hahahaha!

Response by LTC Orlando Illi made Mar 2 at 2018 3:35 PM

2018-03-02T15:35:07-05:00

Seriously? An E-4? Uh Huh. Well I after I informed this Sterling Trooper that he will report to the 1SG at 05:55 in the Morning- you can do the math!

Response by PO1 Jude DeLuca made Mar 2 at 2018 4:56 PM

2018-03-02T16:56:40-05:00

Remind them they are on call 24 hrs a day seven days a week ,52 weeks of the year

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Mar 2 at 2018 5:46 PM

2018-03-02T17:46:40-05:00

(LAUGHS in EVIL NCO) BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA just saw this, I could fix that real quick, troops getting off at 1600hrs? Yep easy fix BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made Mar 2 at 2018 9:12 PM

2018-03-02T21:12:06-05:00

Seriously? You own their ass for the term of their enlistment.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Mar 2 at 2018 9:16 PM

2018-03-02T21:16:48-05:00

Try that with your superior and I think you'll find out

Response by SPC Casey Ashfield made Mar 3 at 2018 4:35 PM

2018-03-03T16:35:46-05:00

While stateside, it is respectable for leaders to not bother Joes outside the "normal" duty hours for unimportant things. Although this would be a good lesson of the concept of duty hours doesn't exist while doing real operations jobs overseas. I routinely pulled 36+ hour days. So it sounds like this E4 needs some extra duty and PT instruction.

Response by SFC John Fourquet made Mar 5 at 2018 7:15 AM

2018-03-05T07:15:59-05:00

Councel the subordinate (in writing). Remind him that it is your job to keep subordinates informed and that it is is his responsibility to be advailale for contact or recall after duty hours. Also remind him that military service is no a 9-5 civilian job. Keep this attitude in mind when it is time to consider this person for promotion or career advancing schools. You may want to pay closer attention to this person’s duty performance during duty hours. It he pulling his share of the work? Does he have an attitude at work?

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 5 at 2018 11:41 AM

2018-03-05T11:41:32-05:00

This would be the first of many bad days to come for this young individual. The first thing I would do would send a message at 0400 instructing this him/her to muster with me in the Chiefs office NLT 0500 for counseling and to be awarded an appropriate level of EMI. Now if they didn't show up on time or weren't prepared for the inspection....well let's just say their life would become as much of a living hell as the UCMJ allows.

Response by Frank Leverett made Mar 5 at 2018 12:03 PM

2018-03-05T12:03:01-05:00

While I know the Military is quite a different world to what I've done in my life, I'd not accept anyone who worked for me telling them to not contact them at all outside business hours.

Response by Sgt Robert Poynter made Mar 6 at 2018 7:13 PM

2018-03-06T19:13:24-05:00

Since we were actually on call 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, there were certain MOS, that could be called to deploy at anytime. Discipline the S*^t bird.

Response by COL Michael Colacicco made Mar 6 at 2018 7:54 PM

2018-03-06T19:54:51-05:00

I used to remind Soldiers that we work by the month when these issues would arise.

Response by Cpl Charlie Johnson made Mar 6 at 2018 9:16 PM

2018-03-06T21:16:50-05:00

Ok I was in before texting. But I did have a Lcpl in my squad, that did a pretty good impression of our Plt Sgt. He would call me when I was on duty and harass me. One night I heard the gravely voice and ASSUMED it was this knucklehead and told him to get bent, with a few more colorful adjectives. IT. WAS. NOT. HIM.
My Ssgt turned the matter over to our 1stSgt. I would have rather been NJP'd, That Punishment would have been less embarasing and been over sooner.
Has anyone else ever swabbed a parking lot during a rainstorm? I was more than politely informed that I had better assume respect on the phone regarless of who was on it. Lcpl Impersonator was out there with me emptying my mopbucket. Ahh Good times Great oldies.

Response by LCpl John Hubbell made Mar 8 at 2018 5:13 PM

2018-03-08T17:13:59-05:00

The military is onot call 24/7. What are working hours? Is incoming supposed to be only 0600 to 1730? Accountability, damn dumb ass NCOs

Response by SGT Aric Lier made Mar 10 at 2018 3:28 PM

2018-03-10T15:28:27-05:00

Verbally counsel them with Plt Sgt present, explain the errors of their logic. muster them at 0200 on a saturday night, record written statement of unfit for duty. assign work detail and to report to CQ every 4 hours. dont go higher unless needed, but if still a problem you have a case to take higher up

Response by Cpl Jack Murphy made Mar 12 at 2018 11:47 AM

2018-03-12T11:47:43-04:00

At start of the next day , in formation , after platoon reports , would be a great time to deal with this "attitude" .

Response by 2LT Ronald Reimer made Mar 12 at 2018 12:41 PM

2018-03-12T12:41:30-04:00

I wouldn’t, b/c I would be in the hospital’s ICU after suffering a stroke.

Response by CW3 Harvey K. made Mar 13 at 2018 6:18 PM

2018-03-13T18:18:45-04:00

I would explain to him that he is not an "hourly employee", but a "salaried professional", who is exempt from overtime pay, but is paid even when he is on liberty, on leave, in the hospital, or sleeping in his rack at night.
His duty (NOT "working") hours are at "the convenience of the government". and if he didn't know that before, he has been so instructed now.

Response by Sgt Frank Rinchich made Mar 19 at 2018 5:31 PM

2018-03-19T17:31:55-04:00

you tell anyone and all E-1 up, their time runs from midnight to midnight for the years they signed on for. give the order, if not next stop captains mass. guess next step they will want to punch out at 1600 in combat.

Response by A1C Erin Brandt made Mar 22 at 2018 2:56 PM

2018-03-22T14:56:53-04:00

I am sorry. This made me laugh. We are on duty 24/7. Young people.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2018 5:21 PM

2018-03-23T17:21:40-04:00

I got that T-shirt already, your problem your fight good luck. Retirement is "GREAT"

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Mar 23 at 2018 5:52 PM

2018-03-23T17:52:42-04:00

It was 1998 and I was a new Private at A BTRY 1-3 ADA for Fort Stewart, GA. I met my supervisor who was this cranky old guy. He told me not to contact him after work unless it was an emergency or a need-to-know information with an early suspense time. If I had a simple question about policy, regulations or anything I was to depend on my barracks mates or go seek the information in some of the finest Army publications or wait until the next duty day. He gave me all of the information I needed before we left work for that day. What a great guy I thought. He was going to bother me if I was going to do the same for him. I do the same today. I am a super busy guy after work. I make my work days very productive. There is nothing wrong with that. If I need to ask my platoon sergeant something on Monday and it's 2000 hours, I will wait until the next business. Again, there is nothing wrong with that. Respect my personal time and I'll respect yours.

Response by CDR Jerry Wells made Mar 24 at 2018 7:59 PM

2018-03-24T19:59:04-04:00

I'm sure my Chief would take care of this one. I would back him up 100% and laugh about it in my office with him over a cup of coffee. SCPO McLaughlin has the right answer, for a start. If this continues for any reason it would not be very pretty.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Mar 25 at 2018 12:59 AM

2018-03-25T00:59:19-04:00

Commanders can work people 24-7-365 if required. The duty day is a mental construct. If they want to test that 24-7-365 thing, they can go non responsive on official out of office contact.

Response by SPC David Willis made Mar 27 at 2018 3:53 PM

2018-03-27T15:53:18-04:00

Text back "Ok, we'll handle it tomorrow ;)" Maybe make him stay late on duty with you so you can push out any info you may have "space" between the hours of 0600-1600. And god help him if his inspection isn't up to snuff.

Response by SSG Tim Hamilton made Mar 28 at 2018 4:08 PM

2018-03-28T16:08:59-04:00

Just pull them to the side and see what is going on.

Response by SN Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2018 3:34 PM

2018-03-29T15:34:03-04:00

Restricted to the barracks for a week, they will hear it from their spouse for screwing up.

Response by TSgt Tim (lj) Littlejohn made Mar 29 at 2018 6:40 PM

2018-03-29T18:40:27-04:00

Let the 1st shirt in on the joke, that should solve the problem!

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2018 7:51 PM

2018-03-29T19:51:36-04:00

Uh, you are on duty 24 / 7 / 365!

Response by PO1 Edward Pate made Mar 31 at 2018 11:02 AM

2018-03-31T11:02:08-04:00

Well start by reminding them that there are 24 hours in the day and we are on duty every one of them. Then I'd tell them their liberty is cancelled until further notice. I'd probably follow up by reviewing all their PM activity for the last month or so to check for any gundecking.

Response by SFC Richard Baerlocher made Apr 1 at 2018 5:43 PM

2018-04-01T17:43:46-04:00

I would inform him that a soldier is a soldier 24 hours a day. He needs to spend some more time doing things for his unit after 1600 hours. Extra training.

Response by SPC Dawn Appelberg (Johnson) made Apr 4 at 2018 5:28 PM

2018-04-04T17:28:06-04:00

Said E4 would find him or herself on extra extra duties such as rock guard, doorbell ringer for cq, bathroom door knocker amd announcer for nuetral bathrooms such as single serve, on the hour announcer, etc. You are.24 frigging 7 specialist....better remember what you signed.

Response by MSG Mike Graves made Apr 5 at 2018 1:39 PM

2018-04-05T13:39:13-04:00

Unfortunate that procedures have changed so much from my days (68-86),
Preventing endless KP, CQ and guard duties. All definite attitude adjusters.

Response by TSgt Stephen Potter made Apr 5 at 2018 5:44 PM

2018-04-05T17:44:43-04:00

I would break my foot off in someones tail end. If this individual is in an active duty status, they on the clock 24/7/365, until their ETS. Apparently, it was a work related issue. Someone should say "thank you" for looking out for me.

Response by SSG David Thompson made Apr 6 at 2018 12:29 AM

2018-04-06T00:29:00-04:00

What is the world coming to? I retired in 1969. My present subordinates and I communicate by text message before and after duty hours, and nobody thinks twice about it.

Response by 1SG Timothy Wallace made Apr 6 at 2018 1:06 AM

2018-04-06T01:06:50-04:00

There are no "work hours" in the U.S. Army. All soldiers are "available" 24/7/365. The Specialist would already know that, so I would text a humorous emoji.

Response by PO3 Yvonne Biehl made Apr 7 at 2018 11:34 AM

2018-04-07T11:34:25-04:00

is this a thing with the 'new' military? They believe they have set, standard working hours?
Of course, when I was in we didn't have cell phones or email so no reminders were sent out once we were dismissed for the day. They let us know when something was happening and it was up to us to be adult enough to remember. They didn't hold our hands or wipe our asses.

Response by CPO Robert (Mac) McGovern made Apr 7 at 2018 10:30 PM

2018-04-07T22:30:17-04:00

Tell them, if they are not available after hours they might want to consider if you will be available to them on the battlefield.

What happened to you are available 24/7? Do we now have so much time-out there actually is an after hours? Tell me this is not so, and if so, God Help America fighting wars eight hours a day.

Response by PO1 Robert George made Apr 9 at 2018 3:19 AM

2018-04-09T03:19:12-04:00

this may be 'old school' but...knock off just got changed to 2000 hours.

Response by SPC William Smith made Apr 12 at 2018 10:15 PM

2018-04-12T22:15:22-04:00

I was a "wire rat", and as an E4 I was a career subordinate. I knew the seriousness of commo, even if it was "just wire". Sometimes the trucks moving missile stages or warheads would forget to lower the boom, and take down wires at the ammo bunkers. I would get up even in a blinding snow storm to get the wires sliced back up. Sometimes I could lay it down and sandbag it until morning. Other times I could raise the lines up several feet, and deal with a permanent fix later. Putting up signs about lowering booms before entering and such seemed to never be heeded, so what else could I do except get up and go do my job. I could always make some slack time to make up for it, btw.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2018 9:27 AM

2018-04-15T09:27:09-04:00

This could be concerned of abuse of power i.e. harassment/hazing/bullying in
today's culture resulting in a relief of cause in your periodic evaluation.

Response by Capt Joseph Olson made Apr 15 at 2018 10:51 PM

2018-04-15T22:51:40-04:00

I had this happen. At my Sergeant's suggestion, I "loaned" him to the motor pool First Sergeant from 1900 on Friday until 0500 on Monday. I believe he waxed busses since he was a clerk with no mechanical skills.

Response by Cpl Rob Villegas made Apr 16 at 2018 3:52 PM

2018-04-16T15:52:19-04:00

I thought that was the reason for mess duty 21 hrs everyday for a week! But i heard they give out gloves in boot camp now smh!

Response by Cpl Rob Villegas made Apr 16 at 2018 3:59 PM

2018-04-16T15:59:55-04:00

And one more if anyone fucked up during the day at said work u most likely be going to early chow as to be back at said work, to police the property ,empty shit cans ect, till 6 or 7 pm i think i did one time ! And there was no leave me alone type of thing once dismissed we was gone good luck finding us lol thats wat you youngsters get for being on your phone all the time bahahaha if i was you i would ditch the phone suckers!

Response by Sgt Ricky Riley made Apr 18 at 2018 10:04 PM

2018-04-18T22:04:00-04:00

duty 2300 to 1300 more like make it day and night for a week

Response by SGT William Dutton made Apr 20 at 2018 2:11 AM

2018-04-20T02:11:40-04:00

So with the new Military are we or are we not allowed to smack them troops to get thier attention, or shove them in the direction we want them to go, because I had an E7 in Panama that never got that memo, and I would follow that NCO into battle to hell and back any day, and believe me, we never looked at the clock, and all our equipment was always combat ready. This Warrior would complete his mission or die trying, and 22 of us would be right thier with him, him in front leading the way.

Response by CPO Todd Porthouse made Apr 29 at 2018 12:25 PM

2018-04-29T12:25:48-04:00

I'm old school so I would remind them that the military owns them 24/7/365 and if I ever hear him address me like that again, life as he knows it is over.

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Apr 29 at 2018 4:18 PM

2018-04-29T16:18:07-04:00

Sp4 Byron Skinner The last I saw of the enlistment contract that ALL who serve now sign and swear allegiance to make no mention of working hours, lunch breaks and rest breaks, serving is not like working in a union environment. A solder is on duty 24/365-366 period. Your duty is what you are told by your superior is. If you are the Chaplin's assistant, a Lt. from battalion comes and says go over their, get a shovel and start filling sand bags, now. You grab the shovel and start filling sandbags until a supervisor tells you to do something else.

Response by SSG Dale London made Apr 29 at 2018 8:25 PM

2018-04-29T20:25:43-04:00

I would start by telling SPC/CPL/PO/SRA Schmuckatelli to get his head out of his fourth point of contact and that the next time he tells me when and how I can contact him he will be on the working end of a floor buffer with instructions not to stop until he can see his face in that parking lot. I would then disabuse him of any illusions he may have that the military is a 0600-1600 hrs, 5 day a week job and that when he signed on the dotted line and raised his right hand -- while his soul might belong to Jesus -- his ass belongs to me. I would wind up by reminding him that the rank of E4 had been entrusted to him on the understanding that he was a good little troop and that, in light of present circumstances, he might be revising his position. Oh, and by the way, I need an extra hand on fire-watch tonight and you, Mr Schmuckatelli, are it.

Now - if this is the first time I've had trouble with said troop, that would be it (save for an MFR in his company file). If, on the other hand, this was a trend, the said fire watch would be a pretty gruesome affair, starting with a formal counselling statement and ending with said troop getting 1 hour of sleep in every four, with his last hour set to begin at 0500.

But if this was just the latest in a long string of incidents of insubordination and dereliction of duty, none of the foregoing would take place. Instead, I would calmly thank the dipstick for his advice and tell him that he, I and the 1SG would be meeting the CO after inspection and that he ought to warn his better half (assuming he had one) that he might not be home for a couple of weeks and that his pay would be dropping for the foreseeable future. Now you go have a nice evening and I'll see you tomorrow.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2018 9:46 PM

2018-04-29T21:46:07-04:00

When I’m done laughing, I’d inform that soldier that he has one hour and I’m on my way to his residence so we can have a talk about a few things. I then let my two most squared away soldiers know that they have one hour to unf*ck their comrades outlook. Nothing crazy, but a peer to peer “seriously bro?” conversation can often help in these situations.
Once I get to this soldiers residence, I’d recommend strongly that he does a lot of listening. Talking isn’t authorized. I’ll give him some standard, yet sincere thoughts. “Soldier, if this is how you feel, I have failed you as a leader. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to sharpen my leadership skills”. I think I’d further let him know that if that would be his mindset moving forward, he would find that his 1600-0600 window would start shrinking. Swiftly, considerably and uncomfortably. No threats, no yelling. Just him, in his living space, at Parade Rest, hearing the Army truth.
We all said dumb things as a SPC. I get it. But if it was his first time, it’s not a hanging offense. Like a puppy pissing on a rug, you deal with it quickly, deciseively and with no room for misinterpretation. If you’re too mean, the puppy will start to hide spite-shits in your shoes. If you’re too soft, you have repeat the lesson 100 times. Gotta find that sweet spot. Once or twice should be all it takes. Soldiers saying stupid things are like puppies.
End the conversation with some along the lines of, “to be clear, soldier, I’ll contact when I deem necessary. If this is going to be an issue, feel free to use the open door policy. I expect two words right now and two words only. ‘Roger, SGT’. I highly recommend you use them, and spend the rest of your ‘me time’ tonight preparing for tomorrow’s inspection.”
And then I’d give him the night to chew it over. If he adjusts fire accordingly, fantastic. But I’d be contacting at all sorts of hours for a few weeks. He’d be getting appointment reminders, he’d definitely be on the CQ roster, and there’s a good chance that when the 1SG needed a high speed soldier...for anything...”right over here Top, my man SPC is loooow drag.” If he decides to stay the course with his funky attitude, we’ll that’s a whole other thread.

On the other hand...if an E4 has the audacity to say “don’t contact me, there might be something a little deeper going on. That’s just outlandishly disrespectful.

Response by SFC Harry (Billy) Tison made May 1 at 2018 2:32 PM

2018-05-01T14:32:34-04:00

Depends upon the job. If it's one that's a 24 he job, then I would give them a verbal reprimand.

Response by MSgt Dale Johnson made May 1 at 2018 2:42 PM

2018-05-01T14:42:53-04:00

Must be hypothetical, cant believe any E-4 would be stupid enough to respond to anyone senior to them in such a way unless they wanted to be an E-3.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made May 2 at 2018 3:19 AM

2018-05-02T03:19:39-04:00

Remind them that being in the military isn't a 9 to 5 job. That said if there is a constant need to contact them after they've been sent home for the day, take a look at your time management and fix the issues there.

Response by SFC David Xanten made May 3 at 2018 6:52 PM

2018-05-03T18:52:07-04:00

Might be time to have them move back on post for a few days and have him do some extra duty during the hours of 1800-2400.

Response by A1C Ryan Goeden made May 4 at 2018 12:28 AM

2018-05-04T00:28:20-04:00

EMI

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2018 8:06 AM

2018-05-04T08:06:11-04:00

I would instruct them that they are a soldier 24/7 and that reminders are a way of not getting in trouble the next day. If they continue to be disrespectful then I would start paperwork. Because paperwork will follow them through the command.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2018 8:11 AM

2018-05-04T08:11:06-04:00

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made May 4 at 2018 11:36 AM

2018-05-04T11:36:31-04:00

I would inform the SM that he is on pass - because that is exactly what it is - and as such, it is a privilege and not a right, and you can recall him at any time. Second, he is a Soldier 24 hours a day - seven days a week - there is NO instance in which he is a civilian.

Response by Cpl Gabriel F. made May 4 at 2018 12:42 PM

2018-05-04T12:42:06-04:00

Had such occurred 45 years ago this idiot would no longer hold the E-4 rank due to being a idiot. The assigned continuing crap details make his ship mates happy with laughter they were not him.

Response by PO2 Tiffany Lindsey made May 4 at 2018 3:32 PM

2018-05-04T15:32:12-04:00

Let that individual know that he has no non working hours, the military is 24/7 and ask if he wants an example.......

Response by CAPT Carlos Flanagan made May 5 at 2018 4:43 PM

2018-05-05T16:43:31-04:00

Clearly that E4 is packing some extra energy in his drawers. I believe staying late to help out the boss and then some might be in order. This might be a civilian trait that needs to be unlearned.

Response by PO1 Rick Serviss made May 5 at 2018 5:12 PM

2018-05-05T17:12:18-04:00

Can you get your chain of command's support to change his/her working hours to 0600-2000 Mon. - Sat. for one week and remind this person they are on duty 24/7?

Response by PO1 Don Rowan made May 7 at 2018 10:25 AM

2018-05-07T10:25:32-04:00

ROFLMAO...this brings back a memory. Serving on the Little Rock we had an E-5 mess cook who was the Navy heavyweight boxing champion. An E-3 mess cook smart mouthed him and he knocked him out from under his white hat. definitely solved the problem. My solution would have been to put him on watch duty for 30 days where he would be working after hours.

Response by CPO Patrick Ashton made May 11 at 2018 1:05 AM

2018-05-11T01:05:19-04:00

This sailor needs to be reminded that his working hours are 24/7. EMI has been suggested and seems entirely appropriate to me as well. In addition to the aforementioned hours, he may also be required to muster at 0600 with the OOD or other appropriate personnel in the uniform of the day.

Response by SSG Brian G. made May 13 at 2018 10:54 PM

2018-05-13T22:54:49-04:00

Outside of working hours? They signed the dotted line and swore an oath. "Working hours" are 24 hours a day. Just because they are not on duty 24 hours a day does not mean they are not working and not getting paid.

This troop would learn the hard way about muscle failure PT. They would first be summoned back to the company to muster at the CQ in PT gear and then taught the chain of command and how to properly address those of higher rank.

I had a troop like this in Germany.

Response by MSgt Carl Stokes made May 17 at 2018 8:52 AM

2018-05-17T08:52:31-04:00

PUSH!!!!

Response by PO1 David Jordon made May 20 at 2018 7:21 PM

2018-05-20T19:21:58-04:00

remind said Gomer that this is not a nine to five job and that , since he doesn't understand that he is in the military 24/7, remind him by having him report to work at 0001 in the morning, and work his sorry butt till 2359.a couple of days like that and said Gomer will get the picture very clear.

Response by Pvt Robert L. Lamoreaux made May 20 at 2018 11:26 PM

2018-05-20T23:26:46-04:00

I probably should not comment as I don't have the experience. Having said that, two questions arise: was the reminder and the response by text? If so, depending on what is known about the personal life and housing status of the E4, is there reasonable certainty that the E4 responded or could it have been someone else using the E4's computer or cell phone? We live in a very different (technologically) world than I grew up in, and I am seeing more and more lack of respect, lack of self-discipline, and "entitlement". I see more "prankers" who seem to find humor only in the misery of others, "hacking", and more vindictiveness for real or imagined slights. I would hope that E4's have earned their rank by their character and values and that any deficiencies in these would have shown up in other aspects of performance.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2018 12:00 PM

2018-05-23T12:00:19-04:00

How ridiculous can people get. How many of these guys truly believe that the military is a normal job? We are always on duty!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2018 12:01 PM

2018-05-23T12:01:44-04:00

And I love it. I joined at 28...I'm now 31. Guess What? Are there things to complain about? Sure. But its not worth my breath. These younger guys need to just suck it up and work.

Response by SSgt William (Bill) Pangrass made May 25 at 2018 3:12 AM

2018-05-25T03:12:31-04:00

I had a young Sgt with that attitude & I reminded him politely, at first, that he's in 24-7-365. The second time I got more serious & used his first name (Sgt) & explained things a little harsher. There wasn't a third time.

Response by LCpl Michael Cappello made May 25 at 2018 2:34 PM

2018-05-25T14:34:40-04:00

Before you "motivate" him/her in some appropriate fashion, ask him/her just what he/she thinks the 'working hours of the military are. Ask him/her what the working hours are for a POW / MIA or a grunt in the field. Then "gently" LOL remind him that no matter what branch of the military, he/she is in there is no such thing as working hours. You report whenever and wherever you are told and ready to stand duty. You will be relieved at the discretion of your superiors.

Response by CSM David Litteral made May 26 at 2018 11:34 PM

2018-05-26T23:34:11-04:00

This issue brings up a very good teaching point. Military personnel are on duty 24/7. However, there are limits. Army units are required to have a training schedule signed by the company commander. If a section sergeant is always calling on soldiers during hours of no scheduled activities, it could be viewed as abuse of authority. That said, subordinates should be counseled during reception and integration to a new unit with regards to expectations for recall.

Response by SPC Daniel Rankin made May 27 at 2018 11:25 PM

2018-05-27T23:25:07-04:00

In the military there is no such thing as after hours work. You are a 24/7 worker and on a 24/7 job. When you are contacted by your supervisor you shut up and listen. You do not talk back and if you do, you deserve a write up if not a one on one counseling.

Response by LT John Fruehauf made May 31 at 2018 4:11 PM

2018-05-31T16:11:02-04:00

i would try to learn about where this notion came from during the basic and personal training. Corrective actions resulting in an apporpriate Thanks sir for this helpful reminder" can be tricky with millenials.

Response by LTC Patrick Turner made Jun 2 at 2018 9:33 AM

2018-06-02T09:33:29-04:00

On its face, the subordinate has a limited point: family time IS family time. To a point. To that end, I would also point out to the subordinate that he/she is getting paid 24/7, we ARE in the military after all, and we have a different mission from working at the Goodyear Tire factory or wherever. I’d be pointed in advising him that only communications that are important, and not “routine” would be exchanged with him. What if he didn’t like it at the end of the day? “Well, pull up your big boy panties and suck it up” would be one thing I might say.

Response by CSM Bruce Cuppett made Jun 2 at 2018 3:49 PM

2018-06-02T15:49:33-04:00

Change duty hours from 1800 to 0600 and see what happens next.

Response by CPT Ray Newland made Jun 3 at 2018 10:02 AM

2018-06-03T10:02:44-04:00

Are we talking active duty or veterans? If a subordinate asks not to be contacted outside working hours, you should respect that. If that subordinate is enlisted, his or her duty continues until EOAD. Don't abuse that and don't tolerate a me-first attitude. I'd that subordinate is a commissioned officer, have them call me at home today and I will discuss with them the roles and duties ofan officer.

Response by SPC Trevor Benart made Jun 3 at 2018 7:45 PM

2018-06-03T19:45:48-04:00

I love these comments. You guys have got me laughing. Makes me wish I had been able to stay in. I prob would have been a ssg at this time or at least pretty dan close, and I could see myself doing some of this shit to some individuals.

Response by MSgt J D McKee made Jun 4 at 2018 2:31 AM

2018-06-04T02:31:28-04:00

I have now been retired almost precisely as long as I was in, and here I was thinking it wasn't all that long ago..... That would be an attitude up with which I would not have put. Every job I had after making Senior NCO was a place junior people really wanted to be, like Training, QC, places like that. Gives one a lot of leverage, because the job they have is mostly (but not nearly all) 9-5, weekends off, family friendly--as opposed to the other choice--operational Security flight working generally some kind of fucked up rotating shift with no fixed hours or even the same days off.

I'd probably have fired his ass and got someone a little more willing to keep his job. Meaning he would have went from a back office job to a harder job with messed up hours, and away from me. I would have told his new boss exactly why, and would have documented it in his APR. Next stop, freedom for him from all military botheration.

Response by MAJ Carl Owen made Jun 5 at 2018 11:41 AM

2018-06-05T11:41:41-04:00

Why didn't you tell your subordinate this info before 1600?

Response by SPC Jim Whitehead made Jun 6 at 2018 8:44 AM

2018-06-06T08:44:33-04:00

While in Nam a Staff Sgt. pulled a .45 and put it against the temple of my friend and threatened to blow his head off. Does subordinate mean he could have shot him dead? While in basic training, one of the guys made an error in a bayonet move ans was physically beaten to the ground by the assistant platoon leader. Again, doe the word subordinate mean you get your ass kicked badly for a mistake? Two points look at the number of likes for this question? at the time of this reply "0". Next point? Sarge was put out to pasture for his actions?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2018 11:00 PM

2018-06-10T23:00:07-04:00

Well... depends. Your time "IS" your time. The NCO should have dealt with that issue BEFORE 1600. I did 19 Navy, before switching to the Army. The standard in the Navy is when you get released, see you in the morning and don't do anything stupid in the mean time. In The Army, it felt like you alwzys had to babysit your guys. I feel we are all adults. If your not grown enough to be ready for an inspection like a BIG person, then pick another profession and get out.

Response by SFC Robert Maldonado made Jun 14 at 2018 1:31 PM

2018-06-14T13:31:55-04:00

Hum no problem not ready for inspection then choice write up ucmj or 1800 hrs inspection for 7 days

Response by MSgt Thomas Welch made Jun 14 at 2018 9:54 PM

2018-06-14T21:54:19-04:00

Is that So? you have standby for the next two weeks. would you like to say anything else?

Response by Cpl David Brown made Jun 18 at 2018 11:04 AM

2018-06-18T11:04:40-04:00

I know "back in the day" before we was released for the day that anything and everything was covered at least twice if not three times... Once by the Platoon Sgt, and then a Staff NCO would have to come in and give their 2 cents and then on Fridays the Platoon commander would add their comments as well if it was a long weekend and then that would be a Company Formation. No cell phones, no email's as we did not have to. IF someone showed up looking like a bag nasty to an inspection generally it did not fair well...

Remember... The key to any successful battle is effective communications... :D

Response by PO1 Michael Garrett made Jun 18 at 2018 11:46 AM

2018-06-18T11:46:58-04:00

The solution is simple enough. I would simply tell those subordinates that the military OWNS their ass 24/7, until such time as they leave the military. This means that when the military calls them, they WILL show up. However, if a situation like this comes up, that means the individual has never been made to realize that the military is not a civilian organization. There is no, after-hours option, and the military

Response by SSG Jeremy Sharp made Jun 18 at 2018 9:09 PM

2018-06-18T21:09:05-04:00

Duty assignments are set by supervisors. The military is not a civilian occupation, it is a service obligation. I am sure the unit could use a CQ Runner, a Motor Pool roving patrol and the dining facility a KP detail selected by unit supervisors. Barracks rooms are subject to inspection at anytime and residing off post or in lower enlisted quarters are privileges, not rights. A little counselling session to discuss these obligations and attitudes may be in order. On the other hand if the supervisor is calling people after hours for no specific or job related reason, what is his/her motivation for disrupting time off?

Response by SGT David Wyatt made Jun 19 at 2018 9:26 PM

2018-06-19T21:26:24-04:00

flutter kicks till he pisses his pants in class a’s do them with him so there is no opportunity to whine

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 20 at 2018 6:49 PM

2018-06-20T18:49:48-04:00

This day and age, give him a hug and go about your business! If you yell it might be considered hazing! (Sarcasm)

Response by Cpl Brian Ruby made Jun 22 at 2018 9:27 AM

2018-06-22T09:27:31-04:00

We would spend an intimate weekend together.

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2018 10:27 AM

2018-06-24T10:27:30-04:00

Honestly, if this E4 was not just goofing of and actually meant what he said - I would push to discharge the person on "inability to adapt to military lifestyle".

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2018 7:21 PM

2018-06-25T19:21:38-04:00

Ok to be honest I probably would laugh at them. Then I would remind them what their duty actually is not just set working hours. If they persisted then I would counsel them making them at quarters explain what duty actually is.

Response by CWO2 Bill Kerr made Jun 26 at 2018 9:51 PM

2018-06-26T21:51:36-04:00

I’d write up an nonpunitive letter of caution. Counsel the individual that the military is not a 9-5 job, they are on call 24/7, to include liberty and leave. Explain the nonpunitive letter is to remain in my files unless an occurrence associated with them not making themselves available after hours occurred in which the letter would be included with a formal counseling. Do as a soldier who answered before said. Have the individual report to the OOD at prescribed times until midnight and through a weekend to make my point clear. Inform the individual if they missed one check in a charge sheet could follow. Now that would be as a Staff NCO. As an officer I would have the individual report to the Gunnery Sergeant. I would have that person explain to the Gunny what they relayed to me. Follow up with the Gunny. Let the senior enlisted handle it.

Response by SSG Stephen Wondercheck made Jun 27 at 2018 12:37 PM

2018-06-27T12:37:33-04:00

24hr Staff Duty.. they always need drivers to pick up and take soldiers to the airport... have them do it on Friday night or saturday.. that will teach them on how the military works! I know I had to staff duty multiple times...

Response by Cpl Tyler Therrien made Jul 1 at 2018 11:23 AM

2018-07-01T11:23:55-04:00

remind them they are in the military, they volunteered, and that working hours are 24/7/365 and to report to you at 0500 in PT gear for a little EMI lest they want to get by on an E-2 paycheck for 90 days

Response by MSgt Brian Williams made Jul 9 at 2018 9:39 AM

2018-07-09T09:39:13-04:00

Laugh hysterically and then re-acquaint that person with the concept that in the military you are never “off duty”. Assign that person a couple swing duties and some mids to remind him that the military functions on a 24 hour cycle.

Response by SPC Alex Snow made Jul 12 at 2018 11:37 AM

2018-07-12T11:37:25-04:00

Hey soldier, front leaning rest position, move. 10 push-ups for each hour of the clock we are on duty.

Response by LCpl Jason Keiser made Jul 14 at 2018 1:26 AM

2018-07-14T01:26:42-04:00

First i doubt an E4 would reply with that, secondly i would teach them the correct houtlrs of military work times with some additional duties for a week or two, thirdly we all need a break from time to time, maybe the civilian world has softened me up. No for sure, ithas.

Response by CW4 Dana Ahl made Jul 14 at 2018 8:47 PM

2018-07-14T20:47:51-04:00

Someone needs to explain to me the definition of "after hours" in the military. I remember that 24/7 was considered a duty week.

Response by SGM Steven Gilboy made Jul 16 at 2018 6:06 PM

2018-07-16T18:06:18-04:00

24/7. Go to a civ job that lets you have your private time! GET OUT, we don't need that! Try that move in a theater of conflict...it would not work well.

Response by LCpl Cameron Doscher made Jul 16 at 2018 8:21 PM

2018-07-16T20:21:33-04:00

Bust them down a grade back to "working class"E-3.Responses like that should not be coming from an NCO

Response by LCpl Steve Smith made Jul 17 at 2018 4:24 AM

2018-07-17T04:24:56-04:00

Hell I'm a Terminal Lance (E-3) I was senior Time in service to 1 Sgt and 3 Cpl's in my section (Motor T) with 3/5 and I never knew of a time clock that you could punch in and out for work and all of them didn't have one either lol and as long as we touched every link in the chain of command going up I could contact my OIC if needed day or night... The next time that Sailor says that to you, You without skipping a beat tell them to report for watch duty (sorry I don't know what kind of after hours duty your section has people do like fire watch, NCO duty whatever...Or you can just wreck their career and write them up. I myself would slam him/her with duty then if he or she refuses Office hours for insubordination, dereliction of duty, disobeying the direct order of not only you but of your section head ( because you have his/ her authority to have your personnel do what is needed when they are not present.) You know all the extra charges the Military loves to tac on lol... Got to love the BGW... No no I got my good Cookie, Honorable Discharge, and high reenlistment code lol Though there were those that just didn't Like me...

Response by CPT Joseph Trella made Jul 19 at 2018 11:25 AM

2018-07-19T11:25:03-04:00

It is pretty simple, in the military there are no "outside of working hours." That as a military member, who signed a contract and taken an oath of office, the person is on-duty 24/7/365. Now as a disciplinary measure there is extra military instruction as SCPO McLaughlin laid out, and if you really want to emphasize the issue, there is the old basic training/drill sergeant way - a unit wide extra military instruction, with blocks of instruction on the obligations and requirements of your service contract. Now this being additional instruction it would need to occur "outside of working hours" and since there does seem to be quite a bit of confusion, there needs to be extensive instruction over many days.

Response by SPC Travis Grizzard made Jul 21 at 2018 2:48 AM

2018-07-21T02:48:26-04:00

Have the SM report at 0400, have 40 hours of duty for the SM, release at 2000, and that meets the 4 hours required rest per day.

Response by PO2 Karl Lehn made Jul 22 at 2018 4:12 AM

2018-07-22T04:12:44-04:00

You remind that fool that he is a member of the armed forces and he is answerable 24/7 rain or shine. Remind him the service owns his sorry ass. Then I'd arrange the EMI. If thst doesn't change his,/her attitude--- Captains mast, Art 15 proceedings and Office hours.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Jul 22 at 2018 1:39 PM

2018-07-22T13:39:05-04:00

In the Army:
A Soldier’s commander or non-commissioned officer in the chain of command or chain of concern may observe deficient behavior and authorize corrective training. The corrective training must relate to the deficient behavior. A member of the Soldier’s chain of command (or concern) should be present to supervise the corrective training session, to ensure the corrective training is executed to standard. The Soldier's COC instructor must not be only any other duty (such as CQ, SDNCO, etc) and should the soldier's first level supervisor of NCO grade.

Army regulations allow corrective training to be conducted during or outside of normal duty hours. It is important that the Soldier and chain of command (or concern) remember that corrective training is not punishment, and should not be confused with extra duty imposed as punishment under Article 15, Uniformed Code of Military Justice.

Extra duty, on the other hand, is a form of non-judicial punishment that is used to correct misconduct that is in violation of the UCMJ. Such conduct may result from intentional disregard of or failure to comply with prescribed standards of military conduct.

Response by SGT William Macafee II made Jul 24 at 2018 2:00 PM

2018-07-24T14:00:14-04:00

Well your on duty 24/7 so when your allowed free time you still have to answer the phone or call when designates by command policy. You never know when there are orders for a command recall to come about and you have to show up with your gear and everything as stated in the company and command policy’s so get over it an answer the phone or be restricted to post or even worse restricted to the barracks on your designated living floor and area.

Response by SSG Charles Davis made Jul 25 at 2018 5:17 AM

2018-07-25T05:17:09-04:00

I would refer to the contract they signed upon enlistment. Then there would be mandatory enlisted development training from 2000 to 2100 hours. I'd give an hour incase he/She had a child at daycare. The class would be a historical dissertation on the United States' participation in different campaigns and world conflicts. Then I would have that fool pulling CQ runner on the weekend.

Response by PO1 Mark Rhodes made Jul 25 at 2018 10:05 AM

2018-07-25T10:05:49-04:00

First off, as everyone knows you are in the military 24x7. Assigning EMI would be appropriate however suggesting that the individual muster every hour in a different uniform does nothing to correct the problem at hand. This is a misuse of what EMI is for. In addition, making them muster with the OOD is relinquishing your responsibility as his supervisor. Having dealt with contacting military personnel after hours or on weekends (especially with caller ID) is a royal pain. I would assign the individual with 2 hours of EMI every day having them research and write a paper explaining the difference of military and civilian life styles along with what their duties and responsibilities are while serving in the military. As their supervisor, it is your duty to correct your junior personnel, not pass the buck. Therefore staying with them during this time will also demonstrate your obedience to authority.

Response by SSG Nana Togonmessie Abloklu Danfira Adedufira made Jul 25 at 2018 10:25 PM

2018-07-25T22:25:44-04:00

I'd recognize the SMs potential for leadership in writing and begin grooming him or her for greater levels of responsibility. I'd start with assisting them in exceeding physical fitness standards. Next I would help them build the foundational knowledge that they would need to be competent leaders. Hand writing Army Command Policy would be a good start, followed by a few practical exercises, some exams, and ppt classes NCOPD style given to the squad. Followed by a layout. That's good for a first day. Tomorrow will be a 6 mile ruck march followed by a courtesy APFT before we delve further into the SMs academic development.
I'd keep this going for about 30 days filling his entire day and reserving only 4 hrs a day for sleep. Plus his team leader is getting a negative counseling statement because I've got to do his job.

Response by SSG Wayne Wood made Jul 27 at 2018 2:01 AM

2018-07-27T02:01:47-04:00

Some great advice and ideas. The NCO needs to tell the SM how good he has it that his NCO not only has the interest in his professional welfare in that he takes the time to text him about the next day so he doesn't fail to repair. Of course, this might be expected this day and age. At the same time, back in the day (I know I sound like an "old-timer") how many of us remember sitting on our thumbs at the end of the day waiting for our CO to come back from the battalion commander's call (held after the brigade commander's call) so the CO could tell the First Sergeant what was going on the next day and he could pass it down to us at recall formation?

I remember coming in from the field and being finished with recovery - vehicles and guns squared away and parked in the motor pool, weapons cleaned by 1400 so we could sit around the barracks waiting to be told when to be in the next morning and what uniform we were going to be in. Go home on time and get a text? That snot should be on his knees in gratitude.

I had a situation like that one time. As I recall, a kid gave me lip over coming in to do a load out on a Sunday afternoon before we were going to do a Sector Recon in Germany. The guys in the section all agreed we'd rather take a few hours on Sunday and lock the vehicles and our equipment up so all we had to do was get up, draw weapons, and eat on Monday morning. Otherwise we'd have to get up at zero-dark-thirty to load up. All except this one kid, fresh from training, who told me flatly Sunday was his day off and as I was only an AJ he really didn't have to listen to me.

When we got back from the trip (there wasn't much time to deal with it at the time) I gave the SM a counseling statement explaining he was legally on duty 24/7. I also explained to him that "quitting time" or "COB" was flexible in the Army - we didn't go home until the job was done. There was no lunch hour or quitting time in combat.

It worked out for me that our real assigned Section E-5 was on CQ either that night or shortly there after.

Anyway, my buddy and I had a list of chores for this guy to perform. He was to report to the CQ desk at 1800 hours to receive his first task. When he completed that, my buddy inspected and then gave him his next task. The trooper was not to know how many tasks were on the list - just that he was there until he was finished with them all.

The kid turned out to have it pretty easy - he finished up around 2200 hours or so but I think the lesson was learned. A short time ago, I managed to touch bases with our Section Chief at the time; he told me the kid ended up making a career out of the Army. He had it in him; he just had to get his head straight.

On a similar note, one of my favorite ways of handling things off the record was when a troop would screw up (not major) I would look at him and tell him, "for the next [two weeks] you are my favorite cuss word. He knew that every time Top needed someone for a detail he was the one. I would substitute his name for a profanity, "I'll be a Son of a Jones!" "I think I need to take a Smith!" It was kind of a joke, but it got the point across.

Response by CWO2 M J made Jul 27 at 2018 9:26 PM

2018-07-27T21:26:36-04:00

You tell them liberty is a privilege, not a right. If you want privacy in working hours get out of the military. As the senior if that soldier, Marine, airman, or seaman, you have the authority to have their liberty revoked. Now, as a former XO, I can tell you that may be overkill. The best thing to do is forcefully let them know that you have the authority and ability to run their liberty of you should do choose. If that doesn't work just get the platoon commander or XO involved and let them know the situation. Juniors members hate being in front of officers for any disciplinary action and will do anything to prevent it happening again.

Response by PO2 Christopher Foss made Jul 28 at 2018 6:49 PM

2018-07-28T18:49:35-04:00

Counseling chit to be put in the Divisional personnel record, and a general announcement at quarters informing the Work Center that there will be inspection for the next four weeks on Friday afternoon at 1630 because PO3 Numbskull feels that our standards are slipping.

I will be inspecting the PO3 first, and he will be inspecting the rest of the Work Center under my supervision.

Response by Lt Col Robert Canfield made Jul 30 at 2018 9:53 AM

2018-07-30T09:53:51-04:00

Uhmm Yea.... Have him come in for some "Extra Duty" on the weekend. Ok?....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYFO5qPpM_I

Office Space Weekend Work

Response by PO2 Leo Anderson made Jul 30 at 2018 2:38 PM

2018-07-30T14:38:11-04:00

FA! Okay. Look. I'll never say that I was 4.0 my entire career. In my airman days Senior Chief McLauglin would have been having fits with me. But as I got rank I received responsibility and was a leading PO in my division the last ten years of active duty. But that was before social media and 100% communication all-day, everyday. It's hard to fathom what it must be like to supervise today for some of us ole salts. But one subject is a constant in the military. Today or twenty-five years ago. It's a freaking 24/7 job. There is no "down-time." When you are called you respond. Aye-aye. Affirmative. You can grouch about it to your buddies in the bar later, but button it and do it. Shhheesshhh! Millennials. Can't kill em... pass the beer nuts.

Response by SP5 Patricia Campbell made Jul 31 at 2018 4:31 AM

2018-07-31T04:31:34-04:00

Are you serious???!!! Someone actually said this to their "boss"? WTFO? OK then, game on. Said subordinate will be expected to report for duty every four hours for the next 72 hours. Said sub will perform rock painting, the retrieval of cigarette butts, KP, and any other crappy task I can find. And if said sub refuses - then said sub can find a job on the outside - AFTER a DD - and see how far that goes with a civilian boss as well.

Response by PO1 Tim Scimemi made Aug 6 at 2018 3:28 PM

2018-08-06T15:28:16-04:00

I'd tear his head off and shit down his windpipe. When you're in the military you are in it 24 hours a day, 365 days a year and no-one gives a damn if he likes it or not!

Response by CPO Mark Robinson made Aug 7 at 2018 8:01 PM

2018-08-07T20:01:54-04:00

Caller ID takes care of that problem. Its hard to get called in when you don't answer the phone.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2018 8:48 PM

2018-08-10T20:48:23-04:00

Why would you need to contact them outside duty hours?

Response by CPL Michael Headrick made Aug 12 at 2018 5:59 PM

2018-08-12T17:59:41-04:00

I would ask them if that goes for while on deployment also. The answer becomes obvious that you are a soldier 24/7/365 until you are discharged and the 'time off'in garrison is just a gift.

Response by PO3 Ian Favata made Aug 13 at 2018 5:39 AM

2018-08-13T05:39:39-04:00

If the contact is relevant to the operation of the unit and a military necessity I would to tell the subordinate that’s not their call. If it was something else or something that was not a nesessity than I would honor it.

Response by SGT Barbara Wilt made Aug 13 at 2018 10:23 AM

2018-08-13T10:23:58-04:00

My superiors would have squashed anyone for saying that. My first thought was you want to be treated like a civilian get out! The oath you took never said during daytime hours. A soldier is a soldier 24/7

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2018 12:33 PM

2018-08-13T12:33:16-04:00

I realize that this is a 10 month old question, but I'm going to go in a slightly different direction from most of the other people responding.

I have been in military jobs where the primary source of stress was my immediate superior and I couldn't escape them. They are there at work, they hung out at my house after work, they showed up unannounced for surprise inspections once a week between 0000 and 0400. They had parties where I lived that I was forced to come to and work at. I was never able to get away from them. I never told them that I needed 8 hours a day away from them, and if I had told them it wouldn't have gone well, but that is a reflection on them, not me. Things would have been better if I had been able to tell them this and for it to change how things were run. My work performance would have improved, it would have helped the entire unit.

I'd take it as very valuable feedback, even if that wasn't the spirit in which it was offered. Now, a lot of this depends on what this person is like, but I'd sit down and talk with them. You should explain that there are times when you will have to contact them after hours and that there isn't anything they or you can do about it. I'd explain that I would try and keep it to a minimum.

Then figure out what is going on. Maybe they feel like they can't get away from work. It could be their imagination or it could be that you actually are texting them too much. We do work 24/7, but that doesn't mean that we actually have to work 24/7. Maybe their spouse is upset that they're being texted all the time. Maybe they're having issues at home and it's making other things stressful for them. These are all things you could find out by talking to them, but that you'll never know if you let your ego get in the way and spend 8 hours thrashing them.

Everyone always says they want feedback from their juniors, but they can't handle it when they get it. If you shit all over this person, don't expect feedback in the future.

Response by COL Thom Brooks made Aug 15 at 2018 5:49 PM

2018-08-15T17:49:09-04:00

Soldiers are on duty 24 hours a day. The only time they shouldn't be interrupted, except in an emergency, is when they are on leave. Even then there will be appropriate exceptions. BLUF: counseling would be in order.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2018 12:05 PM

2018-08-16T12:05:01-04:00

All levity aside, the obvious solution is to provide them with the written initial counselling that you provided them upon thier arrival to your element, that states that upon thier signature and initials, they understand that they are on call 24 hours a day. Additionally, point out that they acknowledged your responsibility to them to keep them informed of all pertinent updates and reminders. If you did not provide them with initial counselling then provide them with a written counselling identifying their roles and your responsibilities.

It would be very difficult to maintain Military Bearing in a situation like that. I won't even pretend that I would, but the only way to combat insubordination like that is to give them the least amount of anger as possible, but the MOST amount of discipline.

Response by LCDR Bruce Cooley made Aug 17 at 2018 3:24 PM

2018-08-17T15:24:25-04:00

Well.....after they show up and are not in the proper uniform/mediocre performance, you have a EMI training with all of them reminding them that they are in the military......and 'working hours' are NOT the only times they're on 'duty'. Then, as a 'gentle reminder', I have had them all show up 1 hour earlier than normal in full dress.....then cut them loose 30 minutes later than normal & require that they leave the work space in full dress for about a week. The personnel that complain will be told by my Chief (I have seen this in the past) that "needs of the Navy" over rule any "working hours" idea that they may have. My Chief would ensure that this NEVER happens again!

Response by CPL Dave Quintano made Aug 17 at 2018 6:40 PM

2018-08-17T18:40:49-04:00

Maybe he shouldn't have joined the military. Last time I checked it was a 24/7 operation. What's he going to say when he's deployed ay 0200 right out of bed? "Oh, I can't go it's not 0600 yet" ??

Response by MAJ Alan Montgomery made Aug 19 at 2018 1:26 PM

2018-08-19T13:26:56-04:00

Never happened to me so I guess Im not qualified to answer. The men and women I served with worked a 24 tour shift despite the privilege of going home to wife and family, or the barracks, at the playing of Retreat or To the Colors. Personally never was lucky, or unlucky, enough to get off work at 1700, 1600 or any other XX00 despite being able to go home to wife and family. Be a little foolish to for a soldier, at First Call, to show up for work only to find out the company, or battalion deployed to the field at 0300, in full combat gear, while they slept, "after hours", at home because some North Korean, Chinese, Russian soldier, or jihadi operator decided not to sleep in. I guess it was a different Army then, besides no one ever considered calling it a day as we set up in our NDP, deployed on an ambush patrol, or did a HILO jump at sunset. Actually don't think it ever crossed our minds to call it a day when the colors were cased or folded. This sounds like a question a civilian would ask!!

Response by PO1 Kevin Dougherty made Aug 19 at 2018 6:23 PM

2018-08-19T18:23:25-04:00

I suspect the fire watch I just instituted needs to be staffed ....

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Aug 20 at 2018 10:45 AM

2018-08-20T10:45:12-04:00

I always precluded that possibility. Whenever I sent my Soldiers home before me (almost every day), I always reminded them that I still had meeting X and to be available in case something new came out - and that this included the unlikely but still real possibility of having to come back to the "office." Then I would give them the "all clear" to let them know it was OK to crack the beer, etc.

That being said, if I DID get this response, I would talk with their first-line, and find out what has given this young Soldier (or PO in this case) the impression that there is EVER an end to the duty day. Usually that conversation with the first-line NCO will spark some interesting ways of correcting that false narrative. And I would monitor to make sure first-line doesn't go off the tracks, but otherwise give them their head to handle the situation.

Response by MSG James Jones made Aug 21 at 2018 7:08 PM

2018-08-21T19:08:25-04:00

extra mustering at company HQS

Response by MSG James Jones made Aug 21 at 2018 7:09 PM

2018-08-21T19:09:45-04:00

reporting to Co.HQS on the Hour from 0600-1600

Response by CPO James Till made Aug 26 at 2018 9:51 PM

2018-08-26T21:51:38-04:00

Working hours used to be what I SAID working hours were. When my junior sailors whined about the hours that I worked them, I let them stay with me until MY workday was completed. After about 3 months, wives were complaining, junior sailors were becoming extremely stressed and training had been accomplished successfully. When I started letting their working hours reflect those of their peers, I had no further problems with getting daily routine completed smartly.

Response by MGySgt Jerry Suarez made Aug 27 at 2018 12:59 AM

2018-08-27T00:59:11-04:00

1st of all I would remind the young lad that he us in the military and we are alllll on duty and need to be ready 24/7...then I would issue him a phone and contact him every hr on the hr....what a dumbass...that's the problem with today's military young punks being protected by political correctness

Response by SPC Les Darbison made Aug 27 at 2018 2:29 AM

2018-08-27T02:29:05-04:00

I guess the PC military has to treat snow flakes with kindness, and tender feelings. Even suggestion are commands If you want to be promoted, Do what your told unless it's inmorle. Think before you open your mouth If something is out side SOPs. Quaitly us your change of Command. When I was at FT. Rucker all we used for heat was coal fired steam heaters. And a couple times a month you where responcable for stocking it with coal. It could equal a 20 hour day. Because you were expected to do your day job to. No big deal everyone did it. And the ones that didn't prform this task property where more or less disciplined by those ppl in their platoon. To f n. cold at times to work bear handed.

Response by CSM Tee Oden made Aug 28 at 2018 8:04 AM

2018-08-28T08:04:01-04:00

Obviously the person bumped their head during PT! After my foot gets surgically removed from their rear, then the real training would start!!!

Response by Cpl Jeff Ruffing made Sep 1 at 2018 10:17 PM

2018-09-01T22:17:41-04:00

Hmm, that’s an interesting one. We all know we receive a salary for what we do. Salaries based employees have no set working hours. We are not hourly. Hourly means we work a set time for a fixed price. If a salaried employee protests his hour, he usually loses his/her job. Well, not really loses it. It’s just when they get to their job, someone else is doing it for them. You let this person get away with this, what else will they get away with. Handle appropriately. EMI to include 2 hours extra an evening, second offense 2 additional hours in the am. If still a problem, take to the man and let this person dance to a UCMJ song. You gave them 2 chances to correct themselves and they turned it down. Lucky this person isn’t in the “old” military. This would warrant an ass whupping.

Response by SSG Rick Robbins made Sep 1 at 2018 11:18 PM

2018-09-01T23:18:53-04:00

I would make sure they had extra duty after the hours of duty. Followed by article 15 and some loss of pay. There are a lot of problems that are taken care of by remediation. This is direct insubordination.

Response by MAJ Hugh Blanchard made Sep 2 at 2018 10:15 PM

2018-09-02T22:15:52-04:00

Take him and his unit to the field for 9 days of training, no cell phones allowed. While in the field, arranger time for a private chat with this idiot and let him know how things really work in the military. If he persists in his stupidity, begin proceedings to get rid of him.

Response by Sgt Jeff Martin made Sep 2 at 2018 10:42 PM

2018-09-02T22:42:42-04:00

Does the phrase Dressing Down have a meaning for you? They are mine 24/7. They need to learn this is an all day every day job. Uncle Sam is a non forgiving employer. Grow up accept it. Whether you like it or not you need to learn to love it.

Response by CPT Kurk Harris made Sep 7 at 2018 11:43 AM

2018-09-07T11:43:12-04:00

If those are the words the young Petty Officer used, I think there will be a formal counseling explaining the 24/7 nature of completing the military mission. I would include in the counseling that he is expected to respond to any query at any time from any member of the leadership chain. I would establish a time-frame for response. 30-60 minutes is a good place to start. I would then test his understanding at some random (read late night) time on the ensuing weekend by sending a text message to his cell phone. If the young Petty Officer failed to respond to that query I would then counsel him for FFI, and implement some form of corrective training to develop his understanding of the on call duty requirements of the military. If we was unable to improve his understanding thru corrective training, I would then recommend to the chain of command that the young Petty Officer be returned to the ranks of the non-rated to give him the opportunity to develop his understanding of military life from the more forgiving junior ranks.

Response by LT Ed Skiba made Sep 15 at 2018 10:45 PM

2018-09-15T22:45:53-04:00

Smile and walk away. Then call him/her whenever you need to and several times a night when you don't need to.

Response by PO1 Richard Norton made Sep 19 at 2018 2:21 PM

2018-09-19T14:21:54-04:00

While you are on active duty you are subject to recall at anytime. Its not a 8 to 4 job.

Response by SPC Earl Semler made Sep 19 at 2018 6:46 PM

2018-09-19T18:46:22-04:00

In the Army there was always KP and guard duty, CQ, and Barracks patrol.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2018 6:47 AM

2018-09-21T06:47:38-04:00

Recommend SM for UCMJ under Article 91: Insubordinate Conduct with two weeks of extra duty as punishment. Explain to SM that “non-duty hours” comes when they turn in their ID Card and are handed their DD-214.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2018 3:57 PM

2018-09-21T15:57:01-04:00

Hate to say it, ladies and gents, but we all know that in this day and age, most of the responses would wind up with you in more hot water than the SM. I don’t know if the Navy has an equivalent to the Army counseling form, but that would be the place to start. Explain leadership expectations of lower enlisted in detail. Help said sailor understand that “outside working hours” is the day he/she turns in their ID card and receives their DD-214 when they leave uniformed service. Until such time, regardless of your MOS/rate, you are a service member 24/7.

The next step would be to recommend the SM for some extra duty (7-14 days should do) through UCMJ under Article 91: Insubordinate Conduct.

Response by PO2 Killashandra Leigh made Sep 22 at 2018 5:08 PM

2018-09-22T17:08:41-04:00

This youngster has bumped his head. When I was in, the LPO called the shots, and the Chief sat to the right hand of God. If either one of them called, or showed up at your barracks door after the end of the normal work day, you knew there was a reason, and you popped tall while they gave you the 411. After which you thanked them, and made sure your S*&T was wired tight for the following day. Speaking from the point of view of the supervisor, I would be at work well ahead of time, and await the arrival of this individual, then have a short private conversation with them concerning their total lack of respect, and complete disregard for just how the chain of command works. I wasn't a "My way, or the Highway" type of supervisor when I served, you really can't be in Submarines, since everyone in dungarees does some variety of "grunt work". However, I didn't tolerate the junior guys blowing me off when I was passing on information that had been given to me by the LPO or the Chief. Methinks that a week of extra duty would suffice to remind the individual that he's in the military, and not working in the private sector.

Response by SCPO Don Baker made Sep 25 at 2018 9:08 AM

2018-09-25T09:08:18-04:00

The Lad needs to learn that "working hours" are over when he turns in his ID card for good.

Response by SPC James Gromley made Sep 25 at 2018 9:29 PM

2018-09-25T21:29:59-04:00

Simple reminding them that they are in the US Military and are on-call 24-7, to do this you give them a surprise inspection of their area and if they do not show, well there are ways of making people do their job... By that I mean nothing that would cause harm to them, but a few extra duties add to their work day for say a week may solve the problem. I know of a former Drill Sgt. who caught his men just sitting around a having shall we say bull time when they had been order to hit their bunks. His fix was if you got time to lean, then you got time too police up the parade ground of all trash. It did not end there he then had them perform a mass funeral for every thing they pick up in the same parade ground, depth of grave was regulation 6x4x8ft. while they where doing this post commander happen to wonder by. Think this was their out the implored to him to see if they could get out of doing what they had been order to do. He then ask the Drill Sgt. about why it was taking place and was give the same answer as which they were give, his reaction was a simple "Carry On Men!" To which they where dumb founded, but hey welcome to the US Military!

Response by SPC Amanda Morse made Oct 2 at 2018 7:32 PM

2018-10-02T19:32:07-04:00

Respond with, "This is working hours." And continue texting them as I was before. Then go get the regulations and make him memorize them word for word. Make SPC stand outside of headquarters reciting it for a couple hours on his "off work hours".

Response by CDR Tom Davy made Oct 2 at 2018 9:32 PM

2018-10-02T21:32:21-04:00

Extra Military Instruction is called for. We are on 24/7. While I would not contact my people after hours just for the fun of it, this was an appropriate message and highly inappropriate and disrespectful response. I might have the sailor do a research paper, after 1600, on the realities of military duty.

Response by CPO Donald Crisp made Oct 11 at 2018 5:40 AM

2018-10-11T05:40:53-04:00

Although I am retired, I have experienced this a few times. I found that society was changing and the pre-millenial attitudes occasionally needed EMI and counseling to bring them in line with accepted and expected behavior. Had to take a couple to mast to "hammer the point" home.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 19 at 2018 4:36 PM

2018-10-19T16:36:50-04:00

Good leadership dictates that one advises the young E4 to come see them immediately upon arriving at work in the am. One cultivates a fruitful discussion about "core hours" and honoring ones contract to serve 24/7. Also, adding the pertinents of "Service before Self", "team player", and warrior ethos.

However, I like the old school approach where one executes an effective knifehand, comes off the top rope, and makes him piss bones. Any questions? :)

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Oct 21 at 2018 12:59 AM

2018-10-21T00:59:53-04:00

Have Corporal/Specialist/Senior Airman/Petty Officer Third "De-Motable" report for inspection

Response by SSG Brenda C made Oct 23 at 2018 8:21 PM

2018-10-23T20:21:29-04:00

NO GO! I'd put that soldier on some duty after business hours for 2weeks to a month. And see how they feel about duty hours after that.

Response by MSgt Mark Bucher made Oct 24 at 2018 3:21 AM

2018-10-24T03:21:03-04:00

I'd remind the youngster that I'm responsible for their' little ass 24/7, and if they still don't like them apples, we're going to have a meeting in the CC's office to discuss their' future in the military. Simple.

Response by SSgt David Hutchison made Oct 24 at 2018 8:14 AM

2018-10-24T08:14:33-04:00

It’s really very very simple, you order that person to meet you in 15 minutes at your unit headquarters, at that time you remind them that they are a service member 24 hrs a day, 365 days a year and that they have just volunteered for perimeter patrol around the headquarters building until 0700 the next morning.

Response by SFC James Dillingham made Oct 24 at 2018 3:13 PM

2018-10-24T15:13:32-04:00

You belong to the military 24 hours a day including weekends. On and off duty.

Response by CWO3 Warren Gaudreau made Oct 26 at 2018 9:58 AM

2018-10-26T09:58:49-04:00

Give them 18 working hours a day for a week or for as long as it takes for the message to sink in.

Response by CPL Peter King made Oct 28 at 2018 1:00 PM

2018-10-28T13:00:34-04:00

Sqn Ldr orders

Response by CDR Richard Thomas made Nov 1 at 2018 8:20 PM

2018-11-01T20:20:25-04:00

I'd have him in my office sweating bullets, the idiot. Youth.....needs a fat lip.

Response by GySgt Kenneth Pepper made Nov 2 at 2018 8:56 AM

2018-11-02T08:56:20-04:00

As I have said before, "nip it in the bud.". You have to exert your authority with this individual so he/she understands your relationship. You are his boss 24/7. Any lawful order must be followed.
And be sure to let the LPO in your chain know what is going on.

Response by PO1 Chad Alcock made Nov 2 at 2018 12:57 PM

2018-11-02T12:57:14-04:00

It sounds to me that some education is needed. Somewhere along the line, someone in a leadership position failed, if this E4 has this attitude. My first question would be, "Why do you think it ok to address me in such a manner?" But probably not quite so tactful. Then depending on the answer, I would make my decision on how to deal with it. I'd be a "little" upset that he responded that way to a reminder about something that if he forgot he would be all sorts of screwed.

Response by SSG Steve Finlan made Nov 2 at 2018 1:38 PM

2018-11-02T13:38:48-04:00

"Son, your life just got very interesting, for about the next 30 days, at least."

Response by PO1 Robert George made Nov 2 at 2018 2:34 PM

2018-11-02T14:34:28-04:00

make them an E-1!!!
you're 'on the clock' 24/7/365. Remind them of that as forcefully as necessary.

Response by LTC John Griscom made Nov 2 at 2018 3:29 PM

2018-11-02T15:29:42-04:00

Have the SM report to you to make certain he understands what will be required at tomorrow's inspection. Sounds like a little OJT on extra night time duties may be necessary.

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Nov 3 at 2018 4:01 AM

2018-11-03T04:01:54-04:00

What I do depends upon the individual:

If the person has potential and just needs their gyros realigned, I'd make sure they understood that their obligation to the Corps doesn't end at 1600 and if they fussed, I'd assign EMI and make them clean the common areas, buff floors, etc. starting at 1600 and going to 1800 for a week, and I would meet them at the end of each shift to inspect their clean up work. It stinks that it punishes you too, but I'd make sure they felt it more.

At the end of the week of EMI, there'd be another inspection but it would just be the E-4's section. And I'd let them know the E-4 was the reason. The EMI and inspections would continue until the message sunk in. I guarantee if my message didn't get through, his section would make sure he understood!

If the troop was crazy enough to do that to me and I was their reporting senior AND if I felt that person was toxic and that the Corps would do better without them, I'd have a special counseling session and mark that person down in judgment, leadership, loyalty, amongst other things...

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2018 4:23 PM

2018-11-03T16:23:47-04:00

Readiness is the key to any efficiencient unit, shoot move and communicate is what we do. Plans change and we need to be able to communicate those changes during or after duty hours.

Response by Cpl Lester Anderson made Nov 3 at 2018 4:49 PM

2018-11-03T16:49:00-04:00

This is the United States military stupid. You're on call 24/7 if need be. End of discussion.

Response by CPL Mark Andersen made Nov 3 at 2018 5:02 PM

2018-11-03T17:02:50-04:00

I would make sure he was cleaning the latrine at 1900 hours.

Response by MSG Robert Ford made Nov 3 at 2018 5:18 PM

2018-11-03T17:18:08-04:00

First off.. you are in the military 24/7... 365... don't get it twisted just cause most day you have 8 to 9 hour duty day.. but corrected training works... just change the duty hrs for week until he gets how to respect seniors...

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2018 5:37 PM

2018-11-03T17:37:15-04:00

My sgts would murder me. Id be making the earth move until they get tired. Dont know how this helps, but thats what would happend to this junior enlisted.

Response by Sgt Wesley Noice made Nov 3 at 2018 5:37 PM

2018-11-03T17:37:56-04:00

Somebody would be skull dragged.

Response by SSG Brad Kachurka made Nov 3 at 2018 6:42 PM

2018-11-03T18:42:45-04:00

This is a joke right?

Response by PO2 Whitney Mulberry-Chaplin made Nov 3 at 2018 6:49 PM

2018-11-03T18:49:42-04:00

I used to let my guys go early all the time. If our work was done and we were ATAF then GO. But they also knew if they had Duty that day it was not going to happen. Plus it was back during pager days. No cells yet. Never had an issue with them.
But if ya wanna be a wise azz, just wait for it. Those hateful plane washes would be stacked up with their names on IT. And ANYTHING else I could find. NO EMI required.

Response by PO2 Ron Gunsolus made Nov 3 at 2018 6:52 PM

2018-11-03T18:52:56-04:00

Remind them they are govornment property... a bit of extra military instruction as a gentle reminder... perhaps a few extra pop-inspections... and definitely a review of how evaluations work and the political reality of duty assignment... that attitude needs to be thoroughly removed from private snowflake in a timely manner!

Response by SFC Francisco Rosario made Nov 3 at 2018 7:29 PM

2018-11-03T19:29:38-04:00

This would be a perfect opportunity to ensure that this servicemember understands that he/she is required to answer at any time he/she is contacted. You are a servicemember 24/7.

Response by PO1 Billy House made Nov 3 at 2018 8:08 PM

2018-11-03T20:08:18-04:00

That's when you remind them that liberty is a privilege and they are on 24/7 recall. There are no "outside working hours"

Response by CPO Albert Kennison made Nov 3 at 2018 8:36 PM

2018-11-03T20:36:28-04:00

I'll tell you how would handle it, I would let them know in my best diplomatic tone that they are on 24/7 working hour while they are in "MY NAVY". If that didn't suit them then they count find another job out of uniform!

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2018 8:38 PM

2018-11-03T20:38:45-04:00

Remind your subordinate that he/she is on duty 24/7. Document the conversation. If it is an issue again, follow up with paperwork. If it persists - then continue to elevate the discipline until he/she is discharged, and then he/she won't be your problem anymore.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2018 10:12 PM

2018-11-03T22:12:09-04:00

The first thing I would do, is have a face to face conversation with the SM. Find out why he/she responded to the way they did. After you get their response then you can proceed with counseling or write up or extra duty on the after hours “guard watch”

You are their senior NCO, get them to conform to the military standards or start the process of weeding them out.

Response by SPC Jeffrey McCoy made Nov 3 at 2018 10:16 PM

2018-11-03T22:16:34-04:00

You signed a contract to US Military. That said, if you supior Tells you to jump, you jump no questions asked. This isn’t your mom & pops restaurant where you can do what you want.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2018 2:11 AM

2018-11-04T02:11:54-05:00

Front. Back. Go!

Response by PO2 Nick Burke made Nov 4 at 2018 6:02 AM

2018-11-04T06:02:00-05:00

Remind him that working hours are not set and are subject to the needs of the service. Then have him work your hours for a while. Just be sure to document.

Response by CW4 Steven Bowyer made Nov 4 at 2018 8:33 AM

2018-11-04T08:33:59-05:00

The services provided for families to have living quarters on or off post. The SM can still be assigned to the barracks.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2018 9:48 AM

2018-11-04T09:48:57-05:00

It would start with a visit to their house/ barracks room.
From there, I'll let your imagination run.
That works so much better than knowing what I will do...

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2018 2:43 PM

2018-11-04T14:43:11-05:00

Military is a 24/7 job: they are your subordinate every second of every day, 365 days a year (366 in leap years). They need to be reminded of this simple fact. However, as their supervisor, you shouldn’t be contacting them excessively after they’re released, especially if it’s something that can wait until the start of the next duty day: texting them to remind them of an inspection or a schedule change is completely fine however.

Response by SGT Mike Moschkin made Nov 4 at 2018 9:28 PM

2018-11-04T21:28:01-05:00

I must be missing something I remember being told we were guaranteed 1 hour off every 24 hours and duty hours were 24-7. Off duty meant when you were allowed to do something or go some place !

Response by AN Paul Luna made Nov 4 at 2018 10:16 PM

2018-11-04T22:16:02-05:00

On active duty working hours are 24/7. If he is an AO I would send him/her to the mags to clean deck holes with a screw driver and shop vac. For EMI for a week.

Response by SFC David Pope, MBA made Nov 5 at 2018 9:25 PM

2018-11-05T21:25:42-05:00

Military work hours are 24/7/365. If you get to have free time between 1600-0600, count that as very fortunate!

Response by Robert Janisse made Nov 7 at 2018 12:40 PM

2018-11-07T12:40:55-05:00

Before I was stationed in an Army town, I had no idea some soldiers considered Army life a 9-5 J-O-B. I always thought it was more like a lifestyle; basically being on call 24-7. If your command needs you, you go. Whenever.

I really don't know what this man's army is coming to.

Response by CPO Deborah Simmons made Nov 9 at 2018 12:25 PM

2018-11-09T12:25:22-05:00

Is this the new Military?. I would have been on his door step the minute after he said that assigning him extra duty.

Response by SSgt Dennis Brown made Nov 10 at 2018 2:06 PM

2018-11-10T14:06:54-05:00

You firmly advise your subordinate that his duty hours are 24/7/365... And if he can not handle that request he be processed for GENERAL discharge for INABILITY TO ADAPT... Which will follow him the rest of his life

Response by SPC Clayton Ellzey made Nov 10 at 2018 6:22 PM

2018-11-10T18:22:29-05:00

Wow things have changed I remember squad leader up to 1st Sgt telling us they don't want to hear from us after duty unless it was an emergency and not from police station.
I would like to know the outcome of this.

Response by SPC Michael Harmer made Nov 13 at 2018 5:01 AM

2018-11-13T05:01:27-05:00

If you're in the military, there is no standard "working hours". When you took that oath and signed that contract, you became part of an elite group that is on call and duty 24/7/365 until your enlistment is up. If this person was under me at a minimum an Article 15 would be in order

Response by Sgt Jorge Sanchez made Nov 13 at 2018 9:36 PM

2018-11-13T21:36:28-05:00

You are a service member 24/7 not just for a few hours. 0600-1600 this is not a corporate job. No where in the contract says otherwise.

Response by CPO Christopher Wadman made Nov 16 at 2018 2:28 PM

2018-11-16T14:28:30-05:00

No problem. When they fail the next "surprise" inspection, etc., remind them it was their choice, right before everyone else gets a 24 hour special liberty.

Response by LTC Chad Uhl made Nov 16 at 2018 4:58 PM

2018-11-16T16:58:52-05:00

If none of you have a policy signed by your commander stating that a Soldier must be available to contact other than by alert roster, you all are wrong. The Soldier has no obligation to respond to unofficial communication outside Army/Command policy. If you screwed up the communication and your text is covering for you not having to ask your commander to alert a Soldier for your failure, shame on you.

Response by MSgt John Bowen made Nov 16 at 2018 8:38 PM

2018-11-16T20:38:16-05:00

What part of the military being available 24/7 does he not understand?

Response by SPC Raymond Buckland made Nov 20 at 2018 10:36 PM

2018-11-20T22:36:21-05:00

Firstly in the military time off is a luxury, it is not a requirement. You are on duty at all times. with that being said, disciplinary actions to include but not limited to article 15 60 days restriction, 60 days half pay reduction of 2 rank grades. Make an example of them and remind them of their oath...

Response by SPC Martin Meyer made Nov 23 at 2018 1:57 PM

2018-11-23T13:57:48-05:00

I believe the E4 has it wrong. When you enlisted you signed up to serve and the military is a 24 hour a day job. The only time you are off is when you take vacation or on medical leave. When you are needed you are needed. Of course I was Airborne Infantry and many times a part of my unit was on alert status.
I cannot imagine anyone thinking they are in a civilian world in the military. A little extra duty or some basic instruction on the military being 24/7 might help.
Call them in for extra duty and have them do a police call several times a day after their normal duty hours. Punishment of some type is called for.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 23 at 2018 3:13 PM

2018-11-23T15:13:19-05:00

Have them read their contract agreement.
Then a counseling statement requiring them to render a report as to why I should not contact them outside of duty hours, using only the authorized military manuals, 5 pages in length, 12 point type, 8 1/2"x11", white, 24 lb. Paper, single spaced, double between paragraphs, 1/2 indentation on paragraphs, 3/4 inch margins, single sided, free of all grammatical and spelling errors, with a bibliography done in MLA format. This task can be completed outside of normal duty hours.

Response by PO1 Tom Follis made Nov 25 at 2018 5:06 PM

2018-11-25T17:06:21-05:00

I like to think I was in the military when the military was the military. Texting, e-mailing, iPhones and iPads wasn’t even heard of. This is/was so simple. As a senior/supervisor, I give orders/instructions. You follow my instructions, we get along fine and we’re friends. You don’t follow my instructions and we’re no longer.......well, you don’t wanna know. You get one chance to make your case. After that, your ass is mine and always will be until one of us leave this command. I can and will make your life miserable. You might think you’ve won the battle but, I WILL win the war.

Response by 1SG William Svoboda made Nov 26 at 2018 9:40 AM

2018-11-26T09:40:38-05:00

First, I would explain they aren’t “dealing” with me I’m directing them. Second, I would remind them we’re a 24/7 365 employees of the US Government.

Response by CWO4 Jim Doran made Nov 28 at 2018 2:49 AM

2018-11-28T02:49:41-05:00

A little Extra Military Instruction for insubordination. If that didn't work I could probably just change his working hours from days to nights to graveyard every week or so.

Response by Sgt Clyde Sinclair made Dec 2 at 2018 6:47 PM

2018-12-02T18:47:43-05:00

Come on, PO1 George Martin, you made this up, right??? Please don't tell me that there is someone serving that is that naive or foolish. What's this world coming to. Are recruits being coddled by their DIs now? I'm pretty sure that TSGT Shirley made it clear to us that we belonged to the Air Force, not to our mothers. You're such a kidder George.

Response by PO3 John Priest made Dec 5 at 2018 12:56 PM

2018-12-05T12:56:05-05:00

Personally were I the E-6, I would have a nice little chat about that the next morning, after the inspection with our senior E-6 (unless I'm the Senior E-6, then I might ask the division chief to drop by). I would remind them about the service being a 24/7/365 organization and the point that I'm a senior P.O. talking to a junior P.O. Then to make sure he gets the point, he just found himself pulling additional duty watches after working hours (arranged in advance of the meeting). He misses one or complains, that's justification to send him on up the chain.

Chances are when that text was sent, I got more "Thank you for reminding me" than whiners. I also won't send a text without a dang good reason after hours.

Response by SrA Michael Risney made Dec 6 at 2018 4:05 PM

2018-12-06T16:05:35-05:00

Thinking a little get together would be in order explaining things the next day? Seems like a deeper problem might be brewing, might want to dig a little and make sure everything/everybody at the duty station are following regulations and not getting lax.
Might also work to call him on the phone, don't text he "might not see it", and tell him how you just decided to have a little GI party that evening, you will meet him in 30 minutes and go over things. Depending on his attitude, can make it longer or shorter.

Response by Maj Ted Mc Neel Sr. made Dec 9 at 2018 3:09 PM

2018-12-09T15:09:19-05:00

I would bring in the Corporal and inform him he is in the military 24/7 except for authorized passes and annual leave and change of duty station proceed and travel time. And if I call him to duty at midnight if he doesn't show, he will be charged with AWOL and Article 34 under the UCMJ.

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made Dec 9 at 2018 7:04 PM

2018-12-09T19:04:58-05:00

Your job as a leader is to be always available.

Response by SPC Jerry Jones made Dec 10 at 2018 6:52 AM

2018-12-10T06:52:13-05:00

I don't know how lame the military is these days, but back when I was serving (1983-2000), when you were on active duty, you belonged to the military until you got out. I don't understand all these military personnel these days called their service their "job", and talking like "I have to go to work now" on the YouTube videos......WHAT???....when I was serving, you belonged to the military and could be called, or pulled in for duty at any time of the day or night, no matter where you were. You were a soldier 24/7, not someone who works at McDonalds and then isn't allowed to be contacted after work hours....The military is your duty to your country, not a lame-ass civilian job.
If some E4 told a Sergeant (or higher rank) that, during my enlistment times, they would have been busted down to an E1 instantly for that kind of insubordination....and they would be pulling all sorts of crap duty for months on end, with no leave time approved....and that lame recruit would have been put in the barracks and not allowed to leave the post until his/her attitude was readjusted. That is one worthless soldier if they talk like that.

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Dec 13 at 2018 2:34 PM

2018-12-13T14:34:18-05:00

The question is how would the little maggot handle me?

Response by SPC Benjamin-Cassie Shirley made Dec 14 at 2018 11:00 AM

2018-12-14T11:00:44-05:00

You are only required to give them 4 hours rest. Getting off at 1600 is a gift from the commander.

Response by SGT Robert Andrews made Dec 14 at 2018 9:37 PM

2018-12-14T21:37:03-05:00

First I would do a counseling on paper put into personnel file as insubordination. Remind them they are a soldier 24/7 and an 8 hour day is a luxury. Then assign them 24 hour cq 3 times a week for a month. Sunday to Monday off Tuesday Wednesday to Thursday off Friday sat to Sunday off Monday etc. The whole month.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Dec 16 at 2018 10:37 AM

2018-12-16T10:37:03-05:00

Call them up at 1800 Hrs. and have them report to the orderly room in uniform and explain failing to do so could result in UCMJ action. Up on arriving write them a counseling statement about belonging to the Military 24-7 365 and he/she is up set with that send them up the COC to complain.

Response by Cpl Geoff Smith made Dec 16 at 2018 1:43 PM

2018-12-16T13:43:11-05:00

Working hours for those in the military are 24/7 period A service member may be called up at any time. Emergency situations do NOT occur only between 0800 & 1600! Grow up Corporal! Or Specialist

Response by SPC Woody Bullard made Dec 17 at 2018 11:03 AM

2018-12-17T11:03:36-05:00

WOW !!! I just came across this post and can't believe what I'm reading. This is not the same
military I served in 1968-1971. "WORKING HOURS"!!! I was a E-4 stationed at a NATO nuclear
weapon site in West Germany and had I told my platoon NCO E-6 what hours he could contact
me he would have taken a giant dump of schizer on me. Our "working hours" at the NATO site
were 24/7 as needed unless you were on authorized leave and you had departed the site.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 17 at 2018 1:45 PM

2018-12-17T13:45:31-05:00

That's how I feel myself so I don't even see how we would have that conversation.

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Dec 17 at 2018 7:54 PM

2018-12-17T19:54:29-05:00

Laughs in evil way........BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

Response by CPL Sheila Lewis made Dec 18 at 2018 9:10 AM

2018-12-18T09:10:32-05:00

As a Soldier, I understood early on that time wasn't mine....it belonged to the Army....and I learned to be ok with that.

Response by CPL Sheila Lewis made Dec 18 at 2018 9:12 AM

2018-12-18T09:12:49-05:00

That understanding started in Basic Training with DS Finks.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2018 10:53 PM

2018-12-18T22:53:41-05:00

Yeah, I'm going to call bullshit on this one. Even the biggest DBA E4 ive heard of doesnt do this shit. I know i had to get my supervisors to stop calling me over shit that had nothing to do with me (parties, "opportunities", other dumbass shit). The problem with the modern military is in large part the junior enlisted but is also in part due to all these shitty NCOs/SNCOs who got promoted not because of merit but because of openings left by the last purge. I had a SNCO call me everytime he didnt know the phone number to a specific office which was all available through the GAL.

Response by CPO Chris Kellar made Dec 19 at 2018 8:42 AM

2018-12-19T08:42:45-05:00

The next day I would keep everyone till 2000, then let them know why just before I let them go.

Response by LCDR Robert Russnogle made Dec 23 at 2018 4:17 PM

2018-12-23T16:17:57-05:00

He is out of line. He is not a civilian, yet. We are on duty 24/7. He will be scrubbing crappers tomorrow

Response by Sgt Mike Jacobi made Dec 24 at 2018 2:25 AM

2018-12-24T02:25:43-05:00

Should never reach that point if leadership in place. If it should, them
N discipline starting at the lowest possible intensity and work up the scale until the desired result achieved

Response by SPC Stephen Walsh made Dec 24 at 2018 7:04 PM

2018-12-24T19:04:27-05:00

Begin discharge process for the E4.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 25 at 2018 5:03 AM

2018-12-25T05:03:12-05:00

That's extremely disrespectful and uncalled for. Seems like he just volunteered for all kinds of duty and pme's if I didn't know better

Response by Sgt Steve Williams made Dec 31 at 2018 7:36 AM

2018-12-31T07:36:42-05:00

Tell them working hours are over as soon as they get their discharge.

Response by SFC Michael Ortiz made Dec 31 at 2018 11:01 AM

2018-12-31T11:01:44-05:00

My personal opinion is, I only contacted soldier after duty hours if something changed or the soldiers has previously failed inspections and is in need of close supervision. If I received a negative responds from the soldier and he fails the inspection, I would conduct corrective training after duty hours for as long as I think is necessary.

Response by SSG Ed Grenke made Jan 5 at 2019 1:37 AM

2019-01-05T01:37:13-05:00

When I served, An Active Duty Soldier, Airman or NMCC has no business telling his superior not to contact him. He's on Active Duty! He doesn't like the soldier in question should be charged with insubordination of a superior unless the Superior is breaking time honored Military Code- "DO NOT FRATERNIZED WITH YOUR SUBORDINATES"!

Response by PFC Cedric Powell made Jan 6 at 2019 12:56 PM

2019-01-06T12:56:40-05:00

Well after personnel inspection, a urinalysis would definitely be in order, but I would make them wait in the company area until after normal op hours. There's nothing in regulation that says you have to do the UA has to be completed between normal op hours. Have the soldier stand fast, bring them breakfast, lunch, dinner, then about 2100 maybe 2200 have the NCOIC of the UA finally do it.

Response by CPL Brian Clouser made Jan 6 at 2019 6:27 PM

2019-01-06T18:27:09-05:00

Well, I would tell them that when they ETS I will stop contacting them "after duty hours" and until then they are on duty 24/7/365.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2019 7:13 PM

2019-01-06T19:13:33-05:00

Hahahaha, I remember... That He/She swore an oath, a part of that paragraph "I will obey the officer appointed over me". Now disobeying you is disobey YOUR officer. They signed that oath as a volunteer, if they can find the work hours of 0600-1600 anywhere in the contract or regulation they have a leg to stand on, I highly doubt there is.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2019 7:47 PM

2019-01-06T19:47:02-05:00

Crush their soul.

Response by 1st Lt Meghan Anderson made Jan 6 at 2019 7:50 PM

2019-01-06T19:50:49-05:00

Response by SP5 Jerry Stotler made Jan 7 at 2019 7:10 AM

2019-01-07T07:10:48-05:00

I agree and dis-agree. While I was in the army and lived in the barracks, we were constantly being called back to do something while the married members were not because we were closer and they had families and lived off base. So in that regards, I dis-agree. That being said, it is a job that requires you to being on call 24/7. As a contractor working overseas with the military, it is TOTALLY different now. I can't tell you how many times I see the military walking around with cell phones in hand. They eat with them, walk with them. They do everything with them. That's the way things are now a days.

Response by Cpl Jacky Akers made Jan 7 at 2019 9:29 AM

2019-01-07T09:29:54-05:00

I would calmly remind them let's see military is a 24-hour job 7 days a week. And then I will proceed to put him on every working party that came up.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2019 10:32 AM

2019-01-07T10:32:47-05:00

While there may be a normal set of duty hours, Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines serve on a 24/7/365 basis. While I certainly would try to respect subordinates by not bothering them unnecessarily during those "Off" hours, there is no excuse for this. That soldier has a significant discipline problem that needs to be addressed immediately. That E4 just challenged not just you, but all military leadership. The E4 is not invested in what they've signed up for and are a liability in an emergency. How you already reacted at that point was critical. Since your situation and leadership style is unknown, I can only say what I would have done. If the challenge was not threatening, I would have immediately changed venue and called them into a private location for written counseling trying to get them to understand their moral and legal obligations of their commitment. It sets the stage for later disciplinary action as well if needed. If the challenge was aggressive, hostile or threatening, it definitely would have been handled with equal proportion necessary to ascert leadership dominance. Weak leaders are never respected and eventually not followed. You need to consider additional leadership witnessed counseling, duty selection, whatever it takes short of disrespect or violence. You as a leader has to build respect and trust if not a little bit of fear into that relationship. That soldier deserves a leader because his/her life could depend on it.

Response by CPL Steve Freeman made Jan 7 at 2019 10:35 AM

2019-01-07T10:35:18-05:00

Maybe he needs to be an E1 again for a few years.

Response by SPC David Hannaman made Jan 7 at 2019 11:49 AM

2019-01-07T11:49:13-05:00

I had to laugh at this one, thanks for the chuckle. Where the hell did they go through basic training?!

So... it's been almost 24 years since I was Honorably discharged, and I know things have changed a bit, BUT considering that war isn't fought 9-5 (or in this case 0600-1600) I don't think it's changed much.

Back in the day we had readiness standards to uphold, and if we weren't working over to keep helicopters flying we seemed to be working over to keep the trucks driving, and in the spirit of "many hands make light the work" and espirit de corps, if one section had to work, all sections had to work.

So how would *I* handle it? Walk around the AO and make a list of everything that needs to get done, and simply tell the unit (being careful not to name names) that "Some people are under the impression that this is a day job, it doesn't work that way when you're salary in civilian life, it doesn't work that way when you're in combat, and it certainly doesn't work here.

I'd post the list in a common area on Monday, and say "We work weekends until everything is done, if we get it done before midnight Friday/Saturday we'll take Saturday off, if it's not done, and done correctly, by 0001 Sunday, we will resume at 1200 Sunday. We're going back to basic soldiers, if you don't like it serve your time and don't reenlist, and go get a civilian day job."

Hmmp, I just noticed, I'm wearing my "OLD ARMY" t-shirt today, must be fate.

Response by MSgt J D McKee made Jan 7 at 2019 4:29 PM

2019-01-07T16:29:57-05:00

People really do shit like this now? You know, I really think I was born at the perfect time in history. Earlier, I wouldn't have seen all the cool stuff that happened since the 1950's, later, I might have had to put up with this sort of crap. Had this happened to me while I was active, I'm pretty sure they would be leaving the same time as me from then on.

But, things were different then. No social media, no cellphones, no email. I can see people not wanting to deal with work stuff on their own time, and we are much more "leashed" now.

Nah, I'd make that one guy get off the same time as me, that way I wouldn't have to worry about offending his sensibilities in case I needed to tell him something while I was at work.

Response by Cpl Thomas Woods made Jan 7 at 2019 4:35 PM

2019-01-07T16:35:40-05:00

In a word-salary....When you signed your life away to Uncle Sam, you knew that the term "working hours"doesn't apply to us...Obviously stated by some rear echelon pogue, as those of us on the "edge" know too well that Hadji isn't going to make an appointment to pop us a new asshole in the forehead....

Response by 1SG Michael Hargis made Jan 8 at 2019 8:05 PM

2019-01-08T20:05:11-05:00

Angry SSG H. would’ve handled it in a very hot headed manner. More resourceful, cool headed, sarcastic, ingenuitive 1SG H. would wait until next duty formation to announce to the company that it has a new comedic champion. Bring him in front of the formation and let the whole company in on the joke. Panel the audience to confirm that they also took the actions of the new company comedian as a joke, because the only other alternative is an insubordination charge. Now who in their right mind would intentionally want an insubordination charge? Behind closed doors that young lads Platoon Sergeant and I would have a discussion about how he took his life into his own hands, but I’m willing to let this ONE slide due to the fact that even I at a younger, less civilized, age may have made a mistake or two. But the next one he better be right with his God because the ‘remedy’ he’ll receive the next time won’t be so light hearted.

Response by PO3 Elizabeth Litton Williamson made Jan 9 at 2019 8:08 PM

2019-01-09T20:08:10-05:00

It seems this E4 wasn’t taught in boot camp that when you work for the government there really are no normal working hours- you’re on the clock even when you’re not so to speak. Give them a punishment that equates and explains this since they didn’t get the memo.

Response by PO3 John Jeter made Jan 9 at 2019 9:51 PM

2019-01-09T21:51:44-05:00

Knee jerk reaction includes a vast array of inspired punishments I either suffered or witnessed in my days. But that would be counter productive I think. Whatever is done, it needs to quash that sense of entitlement hard and fast. A message needs to be sent not only to this young man, but to his peers and subordinates as well. "This ain't Kansas any more Dorothy....and your little dog too!"

Response by CAPT Patrick Mulcahy made Jan 10 at 2019 6:53 PM

2019-01-10T18:53:26-05:00

If it is in the line of duty, there is no such thing as "outside of working hours."

Response by TSgt Francis Dane made Jan 13 at 2019 6:37 PM

2019-01-13T18:37:42-05:00

If this is the first time, then there is no need for a draconian response. Point out, succinctly and straightforwardly, that the military is a 24-7 operation and the request is denied.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2019 5:52 AM

2019-01-14T05:52:36-05:00

I would simply remind them that we are on duty 24/7 and on call for any period during those hours excluding time required for sleep.

Response by Eric Lund made Jan 18 at 2019 6:29 PM

2019-01-18T18:29:24-05:00

First off your E4 has lost his mind!! in the military world you are obligated to the service 24 hours a day 7 days a week 365 days a year. It's in the contract between the soldier and the service. In the world of private contracting. I would fire them immediately and if out country take away their uniform and weapons, burn their passport and let them figure out how to get home.

Response by SSG Lee Edwards made Jan 26 at 2019 1:51 PM

2019-01-26T13:51:37-05:00

The military, like the police, fire department, EMT's and others, have a mission that is 24/7, not 9 to 5 M-F. Each unit has a MAXIMUM time to deploy regardless of when the order is issued. This can be at 0900 hrs on a weekday or 0200 hrs on a weekend, it makes no difference. The unit MUST be ready to deploy. My platoon had 3 hrs to roll out of the motor pool to go anywhere in the world at any time and we trained for that.

Response by SPC Franklin McKown made Jan 26 at 2019 8:34 PM

2019-01-26T20:34:19-05:00

Blatant disregard of the statement.
They would have to figure THAT out for themselves.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2019 8:36 PM

2019-02-05T20:36:59-05:00

When that contract is signed, you're a Soldier 24/7/365 with no exceptions.

Response by SPC Kelley McMahan made Feb 6 at 2019 8:57 AM

2019-02-06T08:57:36-05:00

Honestly? Go Heartbreak Ridge on them. "Maybe I lied, so I can't Tell time, may Mr. I hate America is going to make an appointment to put another sphincter right in the middle of your forehead."

That sort of loss of temporary military bearing from an E-1 can't be tolerated from an E-4, I have no words for what that inspires in my dark little heart. You can pull them aside first thing in the morning and politely point out that temporary loss and give them an opportunity to repair. If they decline or or outright refuse you have options upto and including seeing how they like putting E-3 back on.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2019 8:11 PM

2019-02-12T20:11:57-05:00

That’s a leadership issue I suppose. The SPC or below may not trust that leader. However, that SPC or below may have an attitude problem. The initial counseling is the base of what you expect. That’s what you build leadership from as well.

Response by LTC Warren Miller made Feb 16 at 2019 9:31 AM

2019-02-16T09:31:19-05:00

Time for some face-to-face professional development. First, I would confirm I got his/her message. Second, I would look down and adjust my rank,”just checking to see if it was still there.” Next, I would point out the US ARMY strip on their uniform to remind them that “Uncle Sam Ain’t Released Me Yet.” Next would be a gentile reminder that Uncle Sam considers this job a 24/7 responsibility followed by a not gentile discussion that, while I respect Off-duty time, the response was border-line insubordinate to a senior person finishing his day 2 HOURS LATER, ending with a clear offer to work my hours with me every day for the next month if I ever here such a ridiculous comment ever again.

Response by CW3 Walter Goerner made Feb 17 at 2019 9:07 PM

2019-02-17T21:07:26-05:00

I would remind them that it's not a "right" to live off post, or in housing. I would remind them that they do not get paid by the hour or do they determine what their "working" hours are. If I determined that they are needed to perform duty, no matter what hour or day, they need to be available for it. If not, then they will move into the barracks, married or not, to be available to perform duty. Yes, as a Commander, I did it. The IG backed it as well as my senior Commander.

Response by PO1 James White made Feb 21 at 2019 12:53 AM

2019-02-21T00:53:59-05:00

In the Navy, we utilized something called "Bulkhead Training", I believe the Army calls it "Wall-to-Wall Counseling".

Response by Cpl Dan A. made Feb 23 at 2019 8:57 AM

2019-02-23T08:57:26-05:00

In the USMC, I don't think I ever knew anyone that would ever respond like that. If they did, paperwork would have been the least of their worries. I think it used to be called "hazing" when I came in 2004.

Response by COL Jeff Williams made Mar 3 at 2019 11:49 PM

2019-03-03T23:49:36-05:00

I would send a text message out to all but him (since he said don't contact him) and the message would read " All who respond get tomorrow off"

Response by LTC Ray Morris made Mar 6 at 2019 4:15 PM

2019-03-06T16:15:37-05:00

I'd tell him to report to me in the Orderly Room in thirty minutes, and his failure to be there at the appointed time would result in disciplinary action that would father affect his interpretation of what depicts "duty hours."

Response by SSgt Jennifer Blair made Mar 8 at 2019 9:10 AM

2019-03-08T09:10:15-05:00

The Air Force official statement used during my 16 years was "You signed the dotted line." "THEREFORE YOU ARE ON DUTY 365 DAYS A YEAR 24 HOURS A DAY AND ARE SUBJECT TO BE CALLED BACK TO DUTY AS NEEDED!" This was the end of any further requests of no contact.

Response by MSgt Ted C Hall made Mar 9 at 2019 6:18 PM

2019-03-09T18:18:16-05:00

Remind them that their final DD214 gets issued the next time it's "after working hours"

Response by PO1 Mike Wallace made Mar 10 at 2019 7:55 PM

2019-03-10T19:55:41-04:00

I had something like this happen back in my era. I was leading petty officer and was responsible for the division watch/station bill that showed individuals duty section. My problem sailor was a pain but insinuating my authority extended only til 1630 was the last straw.
I changed his duty section four consecutive days in a row meaning he wasn't going to leave the ship till he squared away, which he did. That was 1973 but today I am sure I would be the one in trouble.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2019 12:00 AM

2019-03-11T00:00:02-04:00

Have had this happen actually individual was restricted to barracks, required to report to both CQ and SDO every hour after being released from duty at 2100 till 0500 for 14 days this was done after checking with both 1SG and CSM both agreed that it was not excessive as being a soldier you are on duty 24/7 365 days a year tge soldier was given the choice either that or a field grade article 15 and liss of 3 PAY grades and loss of off base housing privileges

Response by SrA James Cannon made Mar 18 at 2019 11:21 AM

2019-03-18T11:21:21-04:00

Well you could set the matter straight by reaming them out, or you could just let them show up for inspection the next morning with no advance warning. When they fail tell them "you told me not to contact you after hours."

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2019 3:05 PM

2019-03-21T15:05:30-04:00

A counseling. Let them know that you will do your best to limit contact outside of that time but that they also need to inderstand than when stuff happens or changes last minute, that they aren’t afforded that luxury.

Response by SFC Michael W. made Mar 24 at 2019 2:35 PM

2019-03-24T14:35:46-04:00

First off, I would have not texted them, I would've informed them before releasing my units. But since I did and one of them responded like that I would wait until the following formation. I would call out that subordinate in rank and after letting others know what he/she did I'd have him contact me every hour on the hour from Staff Duty...in uniform. And I'd make sure I direct him to do so in front of other subordinates to ensure they understands military professionalism and that the next time it happens UCMJ actions will be pending...period.

Response by PO1 Chuck Mc made Mar 28 at 2019 7:32 AM

2019-03-28T07:32:33-04:00

tooth brush in the bilge

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2019 11:39 PM

2019-03-29T23:39:49-04:00

"You're paid by the month, not the hour. Unless you're on pass or leave, you're available for duty 24/7. "

Response by SPC Balti Vasquez made Apr 4 at 2019 8:09 AM

2019-04-04T08:09:56-04:00

Holy shit, how do people have little to no respect for their leadership. Remind that f word that they are on salary. Honesty I would say 0500 PT and some details 1600-2000 might set them straight. It’s astonishing how it’s becoming a trend for junior enlisted develop this habit of not understanding how to speak to an NCO.

Response by LCpl Cody Collins made Apr 4 at 2019 9:22 PM

2019-04-04T21:22:24-04:00

1st first off, that E4 would no longer be an E4 after I'm done with him or her. Second, you are on duty 24/ 7 period. Next I would inspect that NCO'S locker first ! By the time I found every Irish pennant on his/ her uniform. The last thought on their sorry mind would be " After hours " because those hours would be replaced with "Office Hours" .

Response by Capt Will Bissett made Apr 5 at 2019 8:30 AM

2019-04-05T08:30:45-04:00

One of 2 courses:
- find something interesting for them to do to help them adjust their attitude.
- send them to my Sergeant-Major who specialised in rapid attitude adjustment!
Probably the latter.

Response by SGT Frank Pritchett made Apr 5 at 2019 11:09 AM

2019-04-05T11:09:25-04:00

I have dealt with only once, what I did was document the attitude on a Counseling Statement for insubordination, and as corrective action, I had him sign in at the CQ Desk every four hours during the weekend. Always remember to document attitudes so history can be established that way when he eventually comes up for a Captains Mass or A-15 it will support the 1st Sergeant in his decision making process. Also if you don't close out the Counseling Statement after 30 days it can't be used legally and considered incomplete. .

Response by CWO3 Warren Gaudreau made Apr 5 at 2019 11:30 AM

2019-04-05T11:30:54-04:00

Extend his/her working hours to 24.

Response by SGT Larry Braswell made Apr 5 at 2019 11:40 AM

2019-04-05T11:40:01-04:00

Teachable moment... Young troop, let me share something with you. You belong to me. You are on duty 24x7x365 even on leave. you should take it as a grace when I am not in contact with you, but when I am, rest assured I am doing so with the full weight and authority of my rank, the Branch we serve and the UCMJ. Defy me at your peril, and you will learn the joys of loss of pay, restriction, loss of rank and if you continue, the possibility of Court Martial looms large in your future. You may then spend those hours you are on duty making little rocks out of big rocks...Welcome to the non civilian world where nobody gives a damn about your opinion unless they choose to.

Response by CW4 Dave Melchert made Apr 5 at 2019 7:34 PM

2019-04-05T19:34:30-04:00

Army is " Duty as needed"
If official then OK

Response by PO1 Robert George made Apr 6 at 2019 10:01 AM

2019-04-06T10:01:50-04:00

Make them an E-3 with scars!!!

Response by PV2 Joseph Myers made Apr 6 at 2019 12:24 PM

2019-04-06T12:24:26-04:00

That Petty Officer would counseled on how his/her poor choice and reminded of the 24/7 nature of the nature of our military. + professionalism

Response by SGT Anthony Smith made Apr 7 at 2019 2:47 AM

2019-04-07T02:47:57-04:00

Remind of his contract. Then, assign cq and staff duty every other day to make a point.

Response by MSgt Eric Roseberry made Apr 7 at 2019 7:17 AM

2019-04-07T07:17:01-04:00

Respect their wishes and train them on military duty hours.

Response by 1SG Ernest Stull made Apr 7 at 2019 10:00 AM

2019-04-07T10:00:24-04:00

I am from the old school. If this did happen even though it would never have happened in the first place. I would remind the soldier that he is on duty 24/7 365 days . The only time this might not apply is when a soldier is on leave. As of dealing with the soldiers of today I am not sure what the NCO can or cannot do? But for me his ass would be grass and I would be the lawnmower.

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Apr 7 at 2019 1:14 PM

2019-04-07T13:14:11-04:00

I am not waiting until your ETS.
Shut up and do it, maggot.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2019 6:37 PM

2019-04-07T18:37:04-04:00

Honestly, if it’s the weekend, and I was then, I would tell you to fuck off politely, just as they did. If it’s during the work week, I would tell them there will be extra PT and that I would coordinate with the other leaders to get their ass on staff duty if it happens again

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2019 6:43 PM

2019-04-07T18:43:25-04:00

If you want to gain respect from those below you, you have to be able to compromise. After duty hours doesn’t mean you’re not on duty however it means as a leader you need to respect that time that is theirs, all the while showing them that if some bull shit detail comes up the next day or the same day that you do not want to do and you know they don’t want to do, you need to express that to then in a professional way. That way they don’t think to themselves “ fuck this guy, while I’m doing this bs, he is going to be sitting on his ass chilling, while I’m doing this”. The bottom line is lead from the front and gain the trust and repect of those below you.

Response by TSgt James Potter made Apr 7 at 2019 6:44 PM

2019-04-07T18:44:37-04:00

Your duty day ends when your enlistment is up.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2019 8:01 PM

2019-04-07T20:01:32-04:00

Let them know you are a soldier 24/7 this is not a part time job and to get over it or get out . I understand I won’t call a soldier late unless it’s an absolute emergency but if I need to talk to that soldier I will text first before I call

Response by LTC Ken Connolly made Apr 7 at 2019 9:30 PM

2019-04-07T21:30:38-04:00

This first gave me a chuckle and then my initial reaction is that the Specialist needed an attitude adjustment. But then again the behavior is a bit unusual. The first thing I would want to know is what type of relationship the supervisor/Sergeant had w/ the Specialist? Basically wanting to know both sides of the situation, before considering any further action.

Response by SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint made Apr 7 at 2019 9:40 PM

2019-04-07T21:40:20-04:00

So, you tell the SPC that you understand that they do not want to be contacted after 1600. They have an 8 hour day. Now we all know that we are paid for 24 hours a day, in peacetime or combat. So, I will send a note to Finance to not pay you for the 16 hours a day that you are not working. If you do not think you should work after 8 hours the Army does not think you need to have unearned pay going to the SPC.

Response by LTC Gene Moser made Apr 7 at 2019 10:09 PM

2019-04-07T22:09:09-04:00

Huh?? So a riot broke out and you are telling me not to contact you? What was your rank? Oh - corporal/Spec? You still have your PFC stripes? Good. You'll need them.

Response by SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint made Apr 7 at 2019 10:53 PM

2019-04-07T22:53:41-04:00

"In war does the duty day also end at 1600? SPC, does the enemy know that they can not attack after 1600?"

Response by CPO Shawn Godby made Apr 7 at 2019 11:26 PM

2019-04-07T23:26:57-04:00

As a Chief Petty Officer, my first question is, "Where did I fail as a leader for this dumbass to think THIS is ok?" Always analyze your performance first then fix it and them simultaneously. If I am courteous enough to remind you; say Thank you and carry on.

Response by LtCol Paul Bowen made Apr 8 at 2019 2:37 AM

2019-04-08T02:37:11-04:00

If it is the US Air Force...you do nothing.

If you are in the Navy or the Marines you formally counsel them with a Page 11 Entry to their Service Record Book (SRB) that any time they are required to come in to work that the request is a lawful order. Disobeying a lawful order Is a violation of the UCMJ and is behavior detrimental to the “...good order and discipline of the Armed Forces of the United States.”

The Army could use the Navy & Marine Corps method to their advantage.

When the subordinate pulls anymore back talk to their superior officers or to noncommissioned officers appointed over them, after formal counseling, then you charge them with disrespect, failure to obey lawful orders and conduct contrary to the good order and discipline...

If it goes on short of Courts Martial, but adds up in two or more Article 15 Hearings, process the individual for Administrative Separation with an “Other Than Honorable” (OTH) characterizing of service by reason of a pattern of misconduct.

Response by MSG Michael Stribling made Apr 8 at 2019 5:49 AM

2019-04-08T05:49:22-04:00

I'd do what he asked. If I can't get the work done in time, why would I make my problem his problem.
I always laughed when guys would brag about working 12 hr days. Id think, ”man the military sure is a goofy place, people openly discussing how the can't seem to get their work done on time and solve their inefficiencies how? Wasting resources of course.

Response by Cpl John Cogswell made Apr 8 at 2019 10:38 AM

2019-04-08T10:38:06-04:00

First, I'd check and see if either the Co 1stSgt or Co Funny was in a foul mood, and offer them a "nugget of joy" then detail the situation for them. If they didn't bite, then I would roll up my sleeves on this slacker and savor the moment of instruction about to unfold. Damned sure I would forward the results to senior enlisted in this for future fitreps in the slacker. The slacker deserves civilian life desperately.

Lastly, I'd pray the provost marshal doesn't come looking for me. Not a praying type, but that would definitely feel necessary.

Response by Cpl George Willard made Apr 8 at 2019 3:50 PM

2019-04-08T15:50:33-04:00

As a Cpl E-4 from the early '60's, I can't, in my wildest dreams, think of EVER telling a superior, NCO or Officer anything of the sort. "Instruction" would have been rapid and abrupt. The least that would have been said would be, "Corporal, you are a Marine 24/7, and as such you are to respond to a superior appropriately" That would be from a VERY lenient superior in my day!

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2019 4:16 PM

2019-04-08T16:16:53-04:00

What did you do?! I hope you beat feet to that SMs location and let him smell your breath while he was locked up. Is this a married SM thinking he is home, in government quarters? Snowflakes...Active Duty (and those on drill or call up) are on duty 24 hrs a day until released from service, convalescing due to injury or illness, or released from call-up/drill. That would be like saying; 'it is too early to call me for this alert, piss off until 0600!'; SMH! How did we ever get people that fail to get with the program and embrace the suck? You signed on the line, it is not all Hollywood! Released for the day is still subject to muster.

Response by SFC Byron Perry made Apr 8 at 2019 7:24 PM

2019-04-08T19:24:02-04:00

Give them an on the spot correction, until they understand that they don't make the rules. Then talk to the Platoon Sergeant, and 1SG to see if he will support you when you seek further punishment.

Response by SFC William Allen made Apr 9 at 2019 8:31 PM

2019-04-09T20:31:02-04:00

Oh boy, could ZI have fun with this. For a first time offender I would TELL that person to come to the office for some verbal counselling. I would remind that person that the job is basically 24/7-365 days a year. We protect Democracy, but don't really practice it. I would make sure that individual knows what the standards of and the next day (after individual inspection) I would hold an informal pow-wow (a quick one by the way) and make sure that everyone is on the same page of music. I would also stress that that included me- I was available 24/7 for my men no matter what. I had a really good group of guys working for me and I was always there for them/ they where there for me.

Response by SGT Loren Hammons made Apr 10 at 2019 10:23 AM

2019-04-10T10:23:37-04:00

The Military is 24/7. You will be called and may expect it to happen, We only call if there is a reason. But if I can not reach you during that time. I can restrict you to the barracks or move you into the barracks of you live off post. When you are a civilian you can dictate terms. When your military you are 24/7.

Response by SFC Richard Quistorff made Apr 10 at 2019 12:23 PM

2019-04-10T12:23:59-04:00

First and foremost the contract they signed to be a service member has and had no office hours .... my answer is simple. Teach them what it means to be a member of the military and remind them there is no such thing as hours in the military or in the civilian world when you get paid a salary. Literally this means they are being bought at that cost that they are pad for. Outside of working hours ... LOL.

Response by CPO Mark Robinson made Apr 10 at 2019 10:42 PM

2019-04-10T22:42:55-04:00

On my first ship (1980-85) the recall list was kept under lock and key by the XO. The Command Duty Officer would have to contact the XO to get authorization to recall someone. That includes just calling them. Yes we are serving 24/7 but our off time needs to be respected.

Response by CPL Modesto Macia-Perez made Apr 11 at 2019 9:47 AM

2019-04-11T09:47:40-04:00

Ha, I'd start with the front leaning rest position and then extra duty after 1800 hours. You are on duty 24/7, Military is not a country club.

Response by Cpl Tyler Therrien made Apr 11 at 2019 11:17 AM

2019-04-11T11:17:03-04:00

remind them they are in the military not mccDs . We work 24/7 365 a little 0400 PT always helps adjust attitudes

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2019 5:59 PM

2019-04-12T17:59:52-04:00

Immediately recall and place in duty status.

Response by SSG Richard Brue made Apr 13 at 2019 3:41 AM

2019-04-13T03:41:56-04:00

They're a soldier 24 hours, 7 days a week. No such thing as "outside of working hours" Sounds like to me that your soldier needs to get smoked for disrespect. No soldier of mine would have ever said anything like that to me. He would have been doing a GI Party till 2330 hrs that night.

Response by LCpl Kenneth Heath made Apr 13 at 2019 4:33 AM

2019-04-13T04:33:07-04:00

The Military is a 24/7/365 commitment, there are no non-working hours in active duty except while on leave. I would, using proper military bearing, inform the SNM that they will be contacted whenever necessary to the fulfillment of our mission. If that doesn't work, then the Section Chief can explain it, then the Gunny, 1st Shirt and on up to the CO... somebody will get it through his grape!

Response by SP5 Dennis Dorsey made Apr 14 at 2019 5:48 PM

2019-04-14T17:48:25-04:00

Last I heard was if you joined the service then you agreed that it was a 24/7/365 job. The text was just a friendly reminder that there was an inspection in the AM, deal with it.

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Apr 14 at 2019 7:33 PM

2019-04-14T19:33:27-04:00

Before or after reminding them who they work for? This falls into the YGBSM category, this IS the military afterall.

Response by PFC Charles Sanders made Apr 15 at 2019 2:47 PM

2019-04-15T14:47:17-04:00

I can tell you that would not have gone over well with any NCO I was ever under. Hell, I got written up for talking back to an E4 when I was an E3 (I was right, but I should've handled it differently).

Response by MGySgt Joseph Magyar made Apr 15 at 2019 11:17 PM

2019-04-15T23:17:18-04:00

My first response would be to inform the individual that working hours are when ever you are required. The requirement may well exceed 24 hours in a day. Combat readiness or combat itsself has no defined working hours. Failure not to respond to a legal order to be at a designated place at a designated time might require confinement which will far exceed what you currently view as working hours. In other words your working hours are when ever you are needed. Just for your information there is no over time pay.

Response by Capt Al Parker made Apr 16 at 2019 7:22 AM

2019-04-16T07:22:46-04:00

YOUR job for the military is 24/24 24 365 days a year!
Evidently he sleep thru that part of basic training or the TI glossed over it in the NEW military.

Response by Sgt Harlin Seritt made Apr 16 at 2019 3:58 PM

2019-04-16T15:58:39-04:00

That was really dumb of him to say that. He'd be smart to say maybe he didn't get the message but after being "reminded" the next day by the good Petty Officer FC, he'd have no excuse. From what I remember of my time in the USMC, we were always on. I'm more than certain this applies to the USN too. I wasn't always happy about it but we were always on. Part of the job you sign up for.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2019 2:49 PM

2019-04-21T14:49:39-04:00

There is no such thing as working hours whatsoever. They signed up volunterily. So, they can not nor will not tell any leader that at all. They are subject to recall at any time or place.

Response by CPT Robert Boshears made Apr 21 at 2019 11:29 PM

2019-04-21T23:29:14-04:00

Remind them they are on duty 24 hours a day. Take him behind the barracks and counsel him. Give him a new MOS... Rock Turner Over.... the bottoms of rocks need equal sunshine. Don’t be sadistic, but do not back down. The new MOS expires in 7 days.

Response by Brad Miller made Apr 22 at 2019 6:21 AM

2019-04-22T06:21:31-04:00

Every Marine I ever talked to was reflexive about "a Marine is ALWAYS on duty".

Response by SGT Juan Robledo made Apr 22 at 2019 8:27 PM

2019-04-22T20:27:25-04:00

Call them anyways, make sure that the inspection is still a go, to be there at formation on time, I don't let them tell me that are on their personal time, your on duty and on call 24/7, 365 until you ETS

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2019 2:55 PM

2019-04-23T14:55:02-04:00

Tell them to join the Reserve so that they can do ALL of their military work "after hours"

Response by SGT Jim Wiseman made Apr 28 at 2019 11:56 PM

2019-04-28T23:56:04-04:00

Let them know that when they signed on at MEPS, they probably told them that their last chance to back out was before putting their PVT Hancock on the line, because from then on until the end of the contract, they have now agreed to do what Uncle Sam asks. That includes working until released. Inform them that the military tries to adhere to a release time of 1600-1630, they are also on call 24-7 per the contract and subject to recall at any time. It sounds as if this particular individual has personal problems with you, justified or not. That being said, is not the problem. Those need to be set aside because you don't have to get along with everyone you serve with, but you at least have to pretend to.
More MOS's which have more defined "ends of the day," MOS's like the Infantry in which I served often are at the CP until the CO & 1SG release you. In these MOS's, it's wives/husbands and girlfriends/boyfriends who have difficulty understanding that there is no time clock and you do not punch in and out at designated times since you are essentially on salary. Those significant others who are preparing meals or trying to make plans often call or text relentlessly, possibly disrupting training or formations. For those SM's who think the military is the Land-of-Do-as-You-Please, need to realize that whatever is asked of you, and if you get a text or call at "off-duty" times you must acknowledge and/or respond as necessary. Because, you are never truly "off-duty" until your contract is up, up to and including the Reserve Activation Clause subjecting you to recall if less than seven years of service has been given, or other qualifying caveats prevent recall. In addition, a safety or welfare check is sometimes necessary when suicide attempts, accidents or other unfortunate inidences in units require a telephonic response to acknowledge the well-being of SM's, and sometimes it's an all-out recall which is made by phone.
This attitude seems to be prevalent in millenials who seem to think that no matter what they are told, they get to decide what they have to and do not have to do. Those individuals do not either get to choose who contacts them or when they get to respond.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2019 8:38 PM

2019-04-30T20:38:42-04:00

Remind them that they are a soldier 24 7

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2019 1:29 AM

2019-05-02T01:29:54-04:00

I'd say, ok. Then I'll have a nice 4856 ready to sign for him the next morning for disrespect and that he is a Soldier 24/7. Oh and if he's inspection is jacked up that day, another counseling for failing inspections and now recommend for UCMJ. Simple. I would smoke the crap out of that Soldier the next day or hold him until midnight, but that takes away my time.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2019 7:55 PM

2019-05-05T19:55:22-04:00

you signed up for this job, you are always standing by for messages from your COC. Just do what your COC needs you to do. Everybody else can go somewhere else but never your COC. How is this even a question? If they made it to E-4 and they don't know this by now I think that there is something clearly wrong somewhere.

Response by CW4 Steven Bowyer made May 8 at 2019 4:03 PM

2019-05-08T16:03:13-04:00

First, I would kindly tell the young E-4 that he/she is mistaken and that he/she is on duty 24 hours a day and that we would have a talk about it the next day. Second, the next day we would have a counseling session and the young E-4 would be made to fully understand that he/she is mistaken and that should he/she ever question this fact, such as not taking calls away from post or in any other way demonstrate an unwillingness to perform duties or meet responsibilities after normal duty hours, a room in the barracks would be assigned, thereby eliminating any confusion or continuing problem. Additionally, the E-4 would be advised that the Supply NCO had bedding, etc. ready to be signed for at that moment. The E-4 would be given a chance to voice his/her change of heart concerning after normal duty hours conduct and responsibilities before being escorted to Supply. It might even help to have all the supply documents ready for signature and in the young E-4's folder during the above counseling.

Response by SPC Franklin McKown made May 9 at 2019 12:06 AM

2019-05-09T00:06:00-04:00

Insubordination=extra duty

Response by SSG Andre Jordan made May 9 at 2019 1:27 AM

2019-05-09T01:27:23-04:00

Inform them they are a soldier 24 hours a day, comp time can be 6 hours if he wants.

Response by SGT Sherrie Fanning made May 9 at 2019 1:00 PM

2019-05-09T13:00:46-04:00

Actually everything should be said at the end of the day. The only reason anyone needs to contact a subordinate after working hours would be for an alert or Deployment..

Response by SFC Don Kehote made May 9 at 2019 6:34 PM

2019-05-09T18:34:12-04:00

If you are any good as an NCO, you shouldn't need to remind them. Stop being a suck ***

Response by PO1 Gregg Mundy made May 10 at 2019 10:44 AM

2019-05-10T10:44:10-04:00

Going through the proper channels we just might have a change in working hours. Needs of the Military you know!!

Response by MSgt Gene B. made May 10 at 2019 11:40 AM

2019-05-10T11:40:47-04:00

I'd tell him that I have no intention of contacting anyone outside of their duty hours - that end on their ETS.

Response by SGT Robert R. made May 10 at 2019 11:48 AM

2019-05-10T11:48:51-04:00

Change their duty hours for a couple of weeks to offer some remedial training of what the actual hours are.

That being said, if high speed can pass a personal inspection without you holding his hand isn't that what you want? If he can't, seems remedial is what is needed.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2019 11:51 AM

2019-05-10T11:51:09-04:00

I would gently remind them that since we are salaried that we are on call 24-7. Yes, we are on call even after the normal duty day ends. I would also tell them if they don't like this, then they are free to find another line of work.

Response by Maj Robert Dudley made May 10 at 2019 12:52 PM

2019-05-10T12:52:03-04:00

I’d say, “Fine. Your working hours end when you have a DD-214 I your hands. After that, I’ll never call you again.”

Response by Maj Robert Dudley made May 10 at 2019 12:53 PM

2019-05-10T12:53:22-04:00

I’d say, “Fine, your work hours end when you have a DD-214 in your hands. When you have that, I’ll never call you again.”

Response by SGT Joshua Lazar made May 10 at 2019 2:36 PM

2019-05-10T14:36:40-04:00

Active duty requires a 24/7 commitment. I would inform your subordinate the prerequisite and suggest the national guard or reserve component following their term of duty if the lifestyle is not suitable.

Response by SPC Al Lohn made May 10 at 2019 4:28 PM

2019-05-10T16:28:26-04:00

Since when does the Army have set working hours. I would give him Company punishment.
Al

Response by Cpl Bradley Sherrer made May 10 at 2019 10:40 PM

2019-05-10T22:40:39-04:00

Considering that some people don't need micromanagement, I'd say subordinate was setting healthy boundaries. If your insecurities follow you up through the ranks that's the brass's fault. Of course, it's as simple as blocking texts and phone calls these days.

Response by SFC David Drury made May 11 at 2019 1:23 AM

2019-05-11T01:23:00-04:00

Wall to wall counseling

Response by SPC Bob Tolford made May 11 at 2019 12:45 PM

2019-05-11T12:45:11-04:00

Next time that I saw that E-4 I'd tell him to get down and knock out 20 all the way reminding him what he signed up for.

Response by Sgt Dan Catlin made May 12 at 2019 1:36 PM

2019-05-12T13:36:56-04:00

An E4 said that? First off, I'd let him know he's at work 24/7/365, and if I contact him he WILL respond! I'd also make this an official reprimand. A lower rank and I might let it go at a butt-chewing. But am E4 is a leader and should know better. I'd also spend some quality time checking his fire team for attitude, morale, and readiness. I'd look into getting some kind of leadership training for the E4 and probably include others in my squad or platoon. I'd certainly look to see how far this attitude has spread and find out if it's just this guy or if others feel the same. Find the source and deal with it. And that E4 just became the biggest blip on my radar!

Response by SP5 Ron Lenzner made May 12 at 2019 4:07 PM

2019-05-12T16:07:31-04:00

I recall working 12 hour shifts for 50 days straight with 1 day off. Oh, following our shifts we filled sand bags for about 4 hours. Vietnam 69/70.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2019 7:35 PM

2019-05-12T19:35:17-04:00

I would remind that subordinate in the strongest possible terms that they signed a contract and that they are subject to call after hours, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week and that until such time as they are no longer subject to the UCMJ I would encourage them to change their attitude or request an administrative discharge.

Response by SGT Alex Baker made May 12 at 2019 10:04 PM

2019-05-12T22:04:34-04:00

Easy fix. You let them miss the next last minute change of time and place, and start the paper trail. Keep the text as evidence of insubordination and do paperwork on that too. They'll either shape up or exit the service with their life in shambles

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made May 13 at 2019 2:42 PM

2019-05-13T14:42:09-04:00

Make him sign in at the CQ at 1800 for a month.

Response by SPC Brian Stephens made May 13 at 2019 4:39 PM

2019-05-13T16:39:51-04:00

Smoke 'em. As a soldier you are on duty 24/7. At any time you can be called to the field and/or go to war.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 13 at 2019 5:50 PM

2019-05-13T17:50:38-04:00

Soldiers need to be reminded from time to time, that they are paid on a 24-hour scale. Also, I myself rose through the ranks while getting smoked all throughout my career, even as an E-6 by my platoon sergeant. Bottom line, discipline builds character. I would put the next "Time in Rank" same pay grade in charge of that individual and have them interpret any requests though him/her. Also, they can be up extra early each morning for PCC's/PCI's on additional mandated injection items by me.

Response by SFC George Doby made May 14 at 2019 12:42 AM

2019-05-14T00:42:49-04:00

that individual would be missing at least 10 lbs. of their ass after i got through with them and the rest of the unit would be made aware of it.

Response by SSgt Michael Simmons made May 14 at 2019 9:17 AM

2019-05-14T09:17:51-04:00

There are ALL kinds of ways I could respond to such a response...really, really NASTY ways.
But to be honest, I'd probably remind the mealy-mouthed little $h1t@$$ that by Air Force regulation he/she is considered to be ON CALL 24/7/365 and that my text is military duty-related & not social in nature & that I probably don't give a damn about his/her sorry @$$ socially anyway & that as his/her supervisor I have an obligation to see to it that my subordinates are up to speed and ready for such things as this inspection.
I would also inform him/her that if he/she is the least tiniest bit out of regs, he/she would be doing $#1t details until Robin Olds orders me to relieve him/her.
I might also add something to the effect that as his/her superior, I could bust his/her @$$ for insubordination, but as the kindly soul that I am, I'll let it slide THIS time.
Beside that, this is probably the same dumb@$$ that wouldn't hesitate to call me at 0200 if he/she got into some kind of trouble with the local constabulary and needed me to bail his/her @$$ out....am I right?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2019 10:56 AM

2019-05-14T10:56:51-04:00

The US Army owns you 24/7 especially if you're in the active service, son.

Response by SPC Steven Depuy made May 14 at 2019 3:04 PM

2019-05-14T15:04:18-04:00

Never had a subordinate when I was in, though reading this made me chuckle, because I could see our modern kids thinking they could do this. My first thought is tell them, this is not a 9 - 5 job, I can make sure you have very little time personal time, except to sleep.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2019 6:31 PM

2019-05-14T18:31:44-04:00

If the navy has counseling form counsel them

Response by CWO4 Jeff Sander made May 15 at 2019 5:59 PM

2019-05-15T17:59:48-04:00

You don't need neculer options. Most times all it takes is an explaination between the differences of a salaried workers and an hourly worker. Salaried means your paid for the year, regardless of the hours. Thats why there is no overtime or holiday pay.

Response by SGT John Creager made May 15 at 2019 7:26 PM

2019-05-15T19:26:50-04:00

I would explain it was a gentle reminder that he is a GI. Did this happen once or is it recurring?
IF its recurring well then first look at yourself, do you do this to often??? If not follow the flow chart to it being his problem. I always did my best to not contact the men after normal work hours. They do have a life.

Yes you can be the horses ass that some would be over this but will it prove anything? Just make things worse most likely. I would make sure they understand what will happen the next time.

Response by PO2 Russell Houston made May 15 at 2019 9:02 PM

2019-05-15T21:02:26-04:00

There is no "after work" in the military

Response by AN Heather Chandler made May 15 at 2019 9:36 PM

2019-05-15T21:36:21-04:00

Maybe things have changed seance I was in. Once you signed your name on that line, your "working " hours were 24/7.

Response by GySgt David Andrews made May 16 at 2019 11:50 AM

2019-05-16T11:50:08-04:00

Response by SSgt Clarence Pennington made May 16 at 2019 6:37 PM

2019-05-16T18:37:13-04:00

I guess I’m old school. When I was in the service I was always told I was on duty 24/7. Likewise I would treat this as insubordination.

Response by SPC William Biles made May 18 at 2019 12:44 PM

2019-05-18T12:44:04-04:00

Obviously, he did not belong to the E4 Mafia. As a member, you do not start shit throwing fights when you're the one downhill. I pity that poor fool and he deserves all the extra duty headed his way. I would say how the E4 should of handled the phone call, but I've already said too much about the E4M.

Response by Sgt Mel Wagner made May 23 at 2019 12:04 AM

2019-05-23T00:04:30-04:00

As a Marine, I understood that Uncle Sam had me for 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year. Period. There is no "my time". It's only the Marine Corps time, and if they want you to stay, you stay. If they want you to march, you march. To fight?, you fight! No question of duty. "We don't don't give damn about your tiny little feelings!" ...Some extra duty, some directions to read history of the Corps, make a report read in front of the platoon..... Fortunately for the Marine Corps most people get it, by the time they get out of boot. Those that don't,... don't last long.

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made May 26 at 2019 2:40 PM

2019-05-26T14:40:40-04:00

You tell that FUCKING PRICK:"You are IN THE MILITARY 24/7!!!The Military is NOT a JOB, it's a PROFESSION!!! NO SUCH THING as "WORKING HOURS" if you're in the middle of a FUCKING WAR!!!

Response by CPT Dave Marin made May 29 at 2019 11:17 AM

2019-05-29T11:17:29-04:00

I think your issue is more about you than your soldier. Why do they need this reminder in yet another text? Did you fail to put this message out when you let them go? It seems this E4, although with misplaced frustration towards you, has a point here. Chances are you didn't get this response from one measly message outside of 1600; chances are that you do this a lot.

A decade or so ago, we didn't have smart phones and not everyone had text message, so we didn't rely on these forms of communication to put out information. I forget to put out we need to show up at 0200 for that ruck march? Guess what? No one showed up. I didn't put protractor on the packing list for tomorrow and we don't have any to hand out? No one does landnav. Guess who got rightfully blamed? Me. I'm sick of hearing this new generation of leaders not having to be prepared for close out briefings, not having time management skills, and not knowing how to communicate. Stop making your damn soldiers work until bedtime in GARRISON.

You want to know why we have high suicide rates now? You don't let your soldiers go. You keep messaging them all night. This causes family, marriage and relationship issues. It also causes identity issues. All they get is message and notification, etc, etc. Then you kick them out, and the messages end. The identity ends. But the relationships they tried to maintain while you kept them in garrison are strained. Do I need to keep painting this picture? I will if you need it.

If you aren't in a deployed environment or a training environment, let your soldiers have their time. The only soldiers that stay in the military for life are the ones that die in it. The other ones need to learn how to function when the military is in the rearview mirror.

As for you, work on your time management, preparedness and communication. Create policies that don't allow for notifications one hour after the duty day is over.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2019 10:44 PM

2019-05-31T22:44:13-04:00

KEK, I don't think this guy understood what he was signing up for. Remind him that he belongs to the military now, and he can be called for duty at any time, regardless of the circumstances.

Response by CW3 Dan Mackey made Jun 2 at 2019 10:31 PM

2019-06-02T22:31:07-04:00

The military doesn't have hours!!!!!!! Have that fool set up a tent in the office and stay until you decide to send him/her home. He/She needs to be made aware they joined the military. They don't have a job they are subject to their chain of command at all times and take their orders from them!

Response by SFC Siva Williams made Jun 3 at 2019 6:30 PM

2019-06-03T18:30:13-04:00

I would start with simple measures. First would be the old fashioned alert roster along with the explanation of why we have such a tool in the box. Then I would follow that up with a strip map requirement so that there is a map to everyone's abode. I would continuously emphasize that everyone is subject to recall at any time and that they could be recalled for field duty or deployment at a moments notice. The idea of working hours starts to change once this is understood. Now if Joe comes at me with this attitude to the solution is simple. I call a platoon level recall alert at 1800 hours. I'd give them two hours to report in with A and B bags wearing full kit and camo paint. Followed by loading out vehicles and march order in the motor pool in preparation for movement. This is done in Korea routinely. The only thing worse than a 1800 recall is a 0800 recall on Saturday morning (especially when you need a pass to be off post or on another camp). Joe will get the idea of being on call after duty hours and that they are subject to recalls for the first 8 years after they enlisted.

Response by Maj Dale Smith made Jun 5 at 2019 4:43 PM

2019-06-05T16:43:42-04:00

You inform the subordinate that he works for the people (Tax payers and US Citizens) 24/7 and 365. If he would like to calculate his hourly wage from his basic salary, tell him that he can use time and a half for 16 hours and straight time for the first 8. He gets double time on federal holidays and 2 1/2 times on federal holidays at night. If his basic pay is $2,000/month, than he is earning apx. $2/hr in straight time. If he doesn't like it, it is a voluntary force and it is his perrogative to leave at his next enlistment date.

Response by LTC Charles Hagemeister made Jun 6 at 2019 7:26 PM

2019-06-06T19:26:38-04:00

Have the individual bring in his LES and have the individual show you their hourly rate.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2019 1:24 AM

2019-06-07T01:24:23-04:00

There are 2 issues here. One is important that needs correction and one that needs immediate attention. This is an incomplete story. Why does the subordinate feel that way towards a superior? Just a thought/possibility here but the supervisor may be creating the issue due to toxicity, maybe it's a non-stop thing with the subordinate and he/she is trying to delineate work and home. It's possible that the SM is dealing with personal stuff and doesn't know how to handle it. Correcting his attitude about contact after a standard duty day is simple. Counsel them, and Charlie Mike. Finding out the mindset is what requires skill as a leader. Scuffing them up may just make it worse. Maybe lack of knowledge, maybe poor attitude, maybe leaders an asshole and he don't care if he gets in trouble. Either way it is the leaders responsibility to dig down and determine the cause of the behavior.

Response by SGT Daniel Durkovich made Jun 8 at 2019 10:49 AM

2019-06-08T10:49:20-04:00

Tell your E4 he/she is in the military not the civilian work. They can ne contacted anytime it is deemed necessary by leadership period. If they want that option go be a civilian

Response by MAJ Bret Smith made Jun 8 at 2019 4:29 PM

2019-06-08T16:29:52-04:00

That’s work info necessary for mission accomplishment. Subordinate gets no say in this— part of the job. However making subordinate do after hours reporting or extra duty not called for either.

Response by SPC Jay Gregory made Jun 8 at 2019 5:34 PM

2019-06-08T17:34:44-04:00

Oh don't contact after Duty Hours? OK will do troop and talk to the Old Man and Top to call formation at 0001 for inspection and let the rest of the troops know why they were called in early, and schedule night time mission for that time. My time when people screwed up there tend to of been an accident where that troop fell down.

Response by SFC Robert Marsett made Jun 9 at 2019 12:48 AM

2019-06-09T00:48:53-04:00

I never had a subordinate that stupid.

Response by 1SG Mark Acker made Jun 9 at 2019 11:58 AM

2019-06-09T11:58:18-04:00

Appears basic training has failed this shit bag. Send back basic training and repeat until conditioned. thanks

Response by PO3 Frank Siegfried made Jun 9 at 2019 1:01 PM

2019-06-09T13:01:11-04:00

Sorry, the Uniform, what is represents, and work needing done does not stop at 1600, for as lons as you wear it, you are on board 24/7/365. You want a 9-5, work at McDonalds

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2019 3:45 PM

2019-06-09T15:45:46-04:00

I would remind them that they are soldiers (or airmen/marines/sailors/coastguardmen as the case may be) and subject to UCMJ and the direction of the chain of command 24 hours a day, seven days a week. If they still want to give you grief over it then suggest that the 1SG or commander call everyone into a formation to remind them of this. Or better yet, put it on a 4856. Be careful on how you word this to your subordinate though. Some younger soldiers today like to throw the word "harassment" around a lot and will try to manipulate situations to try to make you out to be the bad guy.

Response by MSgt Robert Kagel made Jun 9 at 2019 5:43 PM

2019-06-09T17:43:30-04:00

I'd chapter and verse them with the applicable instruction, and If I received any more lip after that I'd start the paper trail. Easy as pie.
Generally, I don't make a habit of calling folks off duty unless I have a real-world reason to do so. I've never had this problem in my past but I can see where it might come up.

Response by SPC Christopher Perrien made Jun 10 at 2019 7:34 AM

2019-06-10T07:34:41-04:00

Too many unknowns. Is this to people living off-post? Does this supervisor live off-post as well ?
Also what are the current regulations regarding this, specific to orders by higher at this base/posting? What are the standing regs there about such contact on and off post? What authority does this person have in relation to this E4 and does posts regs about such (off-duty/off-posts) contacts work?

The reply made to a text by text seems insubordinate, Still not enough info to judge context or any base/post/higher command rules on it. And In this day's military, with so many new channels of commo , I really cannot say myself, but there surely are regulations for this now in that base/unit/branch of service , I would hope.

And don't piss off the "Mafia", you need them guys (or girls) LOL.

Response by SP5 Jodi Harbroe made Jun 10 at 2019 1:35 PM

2019-06-10T13:35:28-04:00

WOW! Things have changed in the military. I never got off work at 1600...not once for a single day. That said during basic training, we were all taught that your body is 'government property' and technically speaking we were 'on duty 24/7'. Of course this was during Vietnam when our generation was raised to behave and I don't think I knew anyone who would have had the nerve to say that they "don't need to deal with you outside of working hours".

Response by CPL David Fago made Jun 10 at 2019 4:24 PM

2019-06-10T16:24:24-04:00

First off, this sentence seems to be leaving out a variety of details. So I will pretend it is completely in context of the military. The easy answer is "OK, as long as you know working hours are 00:00 to 23:59 right?" But migrating into the civilian world, I would take this statement with the attitude of the employee saying it. I can be a real dick on what working hours are. I don't care that you worked late last Wednesday night, your stating time is 8:00 AM and I will write your ass up next time you are late and start the performance improvement plan.

Now with all this being said, there are assholes in the world in management and even in military leadership. Those assholes in management/leadership need to be dealt with differently, and it may be a topic under a different subject.

Response by SN Jay Perry made Jun 11 at 2019 12:07 AM

2019-06-11T00:07:03-04:00

If said E4 shows up with so much as a shoelace untied, then that person gets gigged! This was a courtesy call and NOT required except as a conscience salve for the senior leader. As far as I can recall; a normal day is 24 hour NOT a regular time. You may work a regular shift (what are we in the air force?), WHEN/IF I NEED to get ahold of you I WILL GET AHOLD OF YOU, or you will be mustering with me in a different uniform every four hours for the next couple of weeks.

Response by PO3 Kyle Moser made Jun 11 at 2019 4:30 PM

2019-06-11T16:30:18-04:00

My company 1sgt really enjoyed choking subordinates when I was an FMF corpsman. That always seemed to work lol.

Response by SSG Brian Kresge made Jun 11 at 2019 6:26 PM

2019-06-11T18:26:24-04:00

In all my years, it’s not happened yet. If it’s happened to other noncoms, I hope they used it in whatever “teachable moment” application they deem appropriate. For my part, I find the speculative “ooh I’m agonna go wall to wall” stuff on Rallypoint disappointing. It’s not the question; I just wish we could have the same quantity of junior enlisted development discussions as we do “oh no he didn’t” hypotheticals.

Response by LTC G. R. Thompson made Jun 13 at 2019 8:33 AM

2019-06-13T08:33:53-04:00

First, i don’t text for this reason. Second, when the leader let his troops go, he presumably had provided them with all they needed to succeed on the following day. Does he not trust his own communication skills enough... trust his Soldiers enough to be professional. I’m one who wont call a subordinate at home unless theres a drug test or alert or both. You have to trust yourSoldiers and yourself, and take the hit for them if you failed to communicate clearly. That leaves but one point—should the Soldier be this bold to his boss. No. Kid is wrong, but he’s a Joe who needs a lesson in tact and etiquette.

Response by SSG J F Texas made Jun 14 at 2019 10:13 AM

2019-06-14T10:13:04-04:00

30 days of corrective action of reporting to the staff duty every hour on the hour 1900 to 0000 and 0430 and 0530. If the SM was living off post the would find new accommodations in the barracks for 30 days. Or maybe over night motorpool guard or 0100 equipment inspections . If not correct we'll start taking money and rank. If after 6 months of retraining no progress separate this pos.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2019 12:23 PM

2019-06-14T12:23:47-04:00

I think it's important to remind this sailor he is a sailor 24hour a day 7 days a week. Not just 0600-1600 and when his senior texts, calls, or hollars they answer...period

Response by LTC Marvin Gibson made Jun 16 at 2019 8:41 PM

2019-06-16T20:41:18-04:00

Title 10 not question, must be available 24-7. Title 33 or DoD Civilian go pound sand...

Response by PO3 Jason C. made Jun 17 at 2019 1:12 PM

2019-06-17T13:12:13-04:00

Just don't remind THAT particular subordinate any more. Seems like you were doing that person a favor by providing a reminder. Let him fail inspection and eat it.

Response by SP6 Bruce Fonnest made Jun 18 at 2019 1:55 PM

2019-06-18T13:55:13-04:00

It all depends on what they are calling about. When I was a platoon Sgt. with the Big Red One I had some of my men give me a call after duty with a problem they had that could not wait until the next day during duty hours, I had no problem with that. By doing this I had very little problems with the men in my platoon. Again it depends on the problem this is when you need to spell out what is a problem that can not wit until the next days duty hours.
Bruce (The Flag Guy) Fonnest
SSG Retired 1986

Response by PFC John Lanni made Jun 22 at 2019 4:51 PM

2019-06-22T16:51:41-04:00

Last I recall, we were not paid by the hour and technically on call 24/7. Now if someone is just breaking them on you, that is another issue to address.

Response by LCDR Thomas Remley made Jun 24 at 2019 10:21 PM

2019-06-24T22:21:04-04:00

Working hours? That"s cute.
New rule, skippy, you need to check out with me before you go home.
You like being an E-4? Lose the attitude or lose a pay grade
You're job is to get me home earlier, not the other way around. I'm a strong supporter of the philosophy of, "If you've got nothing to do, don't do it here, but in your case I may change that."

Response by PO1 Scott Cottrell made Jun 26 at 2019 10:14 PM

2019-06-26T22:14:16-04:00

Not sure how it is now. But when I was in, you signed a contract there was no "working hours" listed. On a ship at sea or even in port, someone is on duty 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year (366 on leap year). After work you did what you wanted to, but one phone call telling to get back to work, you better get there ASAP.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2019 4:01 PM

2019-06-27T16:01:18-04:00

Well... the "old me" would have (assuming the E-4 was in the barracks) taken the opportunity to immediately smoke the dog crap out of them. The older current me (pre-retirement) would take the time to explain to the young troop on the phone that there are no "work hours" in the military, its a full time gig, maybe their recruiter failed to fill them in on that little nugget. Then make sure they knew it was your job to make sure they are up to date on where to be and when to be there and its your responsibility. Since you let them go two hours before you left for the day and only texted them to remind them of something the next day, perhaps the solution is not to let them go until you leave so that you can go over these things as a group while your still "at work."

Then I'd type up a long very specific counseling statement with the "magic bullet" inform them in no uncertain terms that what they texted you was if not blatantly, at least borderline disrespectful and will not be tolerated.

Response by CPL Joseph Florence made Jun 30 at 2019 12:57 AM

2019-06-30T00:57:02-04:00

When you deploy there is no such thing as an 8 hour work day. Give the whiny person K.P., policing the grounds, match assorted nuts and bolts in the motor pool, and most importantly make them clean their weapon.

Response by PO1 Fred McCall made Jun 30 at 2019 6:11 AM

2019-06-30T06:11:49-04:00

The reactions of the NCOs on this thread are horrifying. I can't believe that enlisted leadership has become this poor.

Response by PO1 William Van Syckle made Jul 1 at 2019 12:17 PM

2019-07-01T12:17:31-04:00

Military is 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year. Don’t like it, get out. Why do you think you don’t get paid overtime.....

Response by SFC Brian Gillum made Jul 1 at 2019 3:28 PM

2019-07-01T15:28:17-04:00

Formally discuss (in other words, counsel) my poor bewildered shamster that they are available for whatever 24/7/365 plus one during leap years. It is a privilege to get released for the day, but that doesn’t mean that there isn’t a chance that things like a readiness drill, a muster, some emergency, deployment orders won’t require your happy ass back at the unit “yesterday.”

I personally learned this while on leave and had it cut short for deployment orders. I ensured that I instilled that into all of my soldiers thereafter.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2019 10:16 AM

2019-07-03T10:16:41-04:00

I'd very simply mention that their working hours are 24/7 while enlisted. If they do not like it, don't reenlist. That said, the E4 mafia would like a word after PT.

Response by MAJ Charles Cozzens made Jul 20 at 2019 12:03 AM

2019-07-20T00:03:24-04:00

Someone in basic training do not cover this subject matter with this E-4 . You are on duty, by default,24/7. Extra training required ASAP.

Response by Sgt Ivan Boatwright made Jul 29 at 2019 10:25 AM

2019-07-29T10:25:58-04:00

IN THE MARINES YOU ARE ON DUTY 24/7. ACCEPT THAT. IF THEY REJECT THE STATEMENT, HAVE THEIR STRIPES REMOVED AS THEY ARE UNABLE TO DO THEIR DUTY.

Response by CPT Kevin Connolly made Aug 2 at 2019 6:09 PM

2019-08-02T18:09:17-04:00

Oh my God. In my day, Top would have Specialst Wannabe Civilian in for some wall to wall counseling. I was to busy laughing to think of a serious answer.

Response by SSG Daniel Lynn made Aug 6 at 2019 5:59 PM

2019-08-06T17:59:11-04:00

“Working Hours”? What military did they join? My duty hours were 24/7 to include all national holidays unless otherwise directed. First offense, verbal counseling. Second, Article 15 his/her butt.

Response by PO2 Zach Van Exum made Aug 12 at 2019 3:36 PM

2019-08-12T15:36:34-04:00

Dress White Inspection at 0500 with the Duty Chief (I’m a submariner) for one week.

Response by SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM made Aug 15 at 2019 11:26 PM

2019-08-15T23:26:13-04:00

Clarify the expectations in writing!!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2019 8:25 PM

2019-08-24T20:25:15-04:00

As an Active Duty Soldier you are on duty 24 hours a day.

Response by CPL Ashley Vandemark made Aug 30 at 2019 6:21 AM

2019-08-30T06:21:34-04:00

Is that even a thing? I'd call them every day at midnight just to be an asshole!

Response by SGT Debra McDonough Travis made Aug 31 at 2019 8:47 AM

2019-08-31T08:47:38-04:00

I would remind them that they are on call 24/7 and that is how they are paid, then assign them CQ duties for a few weekend days.

Response by SrA Brett Stratton made Sep 2 at 2019 3:07 AM

2019-09-02T03:07:35-04:00

I'd remind them that they are military, not a cashier at Target and that all hours are working hours. You never know when an emergency situation will arise, a surprise inspection (if you live in the dorms. Had an E2 try to pull this.), or anything else outside "working hours" happens. If you don't pick up when you call and it's work-related, then the consequences could be severe: "YOU serve the military. The military does not serve you. Get it straight, scumbag. Oh, did I hurt your little feelings? Suck it up. This isn't a college fraternity. You want me to show you respect. Then earn it!"

Response by SSG Kenneth Ponder made Sep 17 at 2019 10:50 AM

2019-09-17T10:50:35-04:00

24/7 is your work day, you get to rest, eat, sleep. That's what you signed up for.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2019 11:38 AM

2019-09-17T11:38:54-04:00

I would start talking to the JAG, whom I frequently have lunch with, and review separation actions for the Soldier.

Response by LCpl Darrell J. Farley Jr. made Sep 17 at 2019 1:06 PM

2019-09-17T13:06:21-04:00

From now until further notice, you will live in the barracks so you can easily be reminded you are in the Military not a 9-5 Job SKIPPY!!! (Of course this doesn’t apply to Airmen).

Response by SFC Phillip Allen made Sep 17 at 2019 1:18 PM

2019-09-17T13:18:18-04:00

Bring in at 0500, counsel him on the 24/7 policy. Assign him extra duty after hours, and prepare other paperwork for insubordinate behavior in advance. The old take their time, money and rank to get them in line.

Response by SGT Scott Swinford made Sep 17 at 2019 1:26 PM

2019-09-17T13:26:49-04:00

In my day that young soldier would have had about 10 minutes to report for some remedial training.

Response by PO2 Roger Langford made Sep 17 at 2019 3:01 PM

2019-09-17T15:01:31-04:00

It ain’t as bad as it used to be. There are hundreds of documented cases of officers and NCOs being killed by their own men in the late 1960s and early 1970s.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2019 4:48 PM

2019-09-17T16:48:00-04:00

I had this situation. The Soldier told SGT don't contact me after final formation. Before I could respond he told me I need to speak with the Support Ops SGM on the open door policy. I said ok let's go see her. On the way I said if I don't contact via cellphone I'm going to your room at 0400 everyday to give you all necessary information, while I'm there I'm going to inspect your room, and give you a uniform inspection. They spoke he said I was retaliating with the inspections. SGM said he is right to a certain extent because my calls and texts were using up his minutes. He chose to let me call or text.

Response by SP5 John Moore made Sep 17 at 2019 4:57 PM

2019-09-17T16:57:23-04:00

Outside working hours?? You belong to Uncle Sam. States side you are required 4 hours rest a day. Enough your 10 minute per hour breaks

Response by MAJ Jim Cook made Sep 17 at 2019 5:48 PM

2019-09-17T17:48:26-04:00

Actually, when I was in, I would have the 1Sgt moving his ads back into the barracks the next day, and he would remain there until I decided he might re-earn the privilege of being permitted of base.

Response by SP5 Paul Pinyan made Sep 17 at 2019 6:04 PM

2019-09-17T18:04:44-04:00

Oh boy! Don’t know about today. What happened to once you are sworn in you belong to Uncle Sam 24/7/365. Definite misunderstanding of rights/priveleges

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2019 6:44 PM

2019-09-17T18:44:14-04:00

Who in their right minds would text their leader in that fashion. Good grief.

Response by SFC William Ewing made Sep 17 at 2019 7:01 PM

2019-09-17T19:01:10-04:00

Ever hear of 24/7
Four on two off for a week
You got right hour's off a day.

Maybe stagger the start bay a hour each day.
First day shift starts 0000 to 0400
Second 0100 to 0500
Third 0200 to 0600
Forth 0000 to O400 repeat as needed

Response by SFC Rob Bradshaw made Sep 17 at 2019 7:03 PM

2019-09-17T19:03:27-04:00

I’d have them report back right then.

Response by CPL Linda B. made Sep 17 at 2019 7:36 PM

2019-09-17T19:36:00-04:00

As far as I know when you're in the army you are on call 24/7 you may be off work for what you were doing but you are always supposed to be on call for what is needed.
I would imagine it would be up to the company CEO as to whether or not there is legitimate need to be getting a hold of a soldier when he's already done with this day and gone home.

Response by CPO Randy McLaughlin made Sep 17 at 2019 7:51 PM

2019-09-17T19:51:19-04:00

I say nothing. I screen shot and save that exchange. Next time I need to get info to my division, outside of "working hours", E4 is left off the recipients list. And he suffers the consequences.
The other option is to inform E4, in definite and emphatic terms, that as a member of the military, EVERY hour is subject to becoming "working hours" without prior notice.

Response by C/1st Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2019 9:18 PM

2019-09-17T21:18:57-04:00

You guys are an bunch of tools. Unless it’s life or death no one should be bothered outside of hours....

Response by SSG Donnie Burks made Sep 17 at 2019 9:54 PM

2019-09-17T21:54:42-04:00

Verbally or physically snatch a knot in his/her ass! 24/7/365 !

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Sep 17 at 2019 10:27 PM

2019-09-17T22:27:31-04:00

Document them to a E3.

Response by MAJ Steve Daugherty made Sep 17 at 2019 10:35 PM

2019-09-17T22:35:11-04:00

They would have to be reminded that you are a soldier 24h/day, 7 days/ week, 365days/ year. And while a good leader takes care of his people and doesn’t frivolously infringe on their normal off duty time, it is not their right not to be bothered at all. Even in civilian life your boss may call you to discuss some important issue so the youngster better get over it. So I would ignore his protest after that explanation and emphasize it with some very long duty days if he still doesn’t get it

Response by SFC Kenneth Goins made Sep 18 at 2019 1:26 AM

2019-09-18T01:26:01-04:00

The question is “how would you handle this?”. You’re an NCO in the Navy so you should have the answer to this situation already.

Response by SFC Donald Souza made Sep 18 at 2019 7:49 AM

2019-09-18T07:49:38-04:00

I would PT his sorry little ass. Extra duty for a month. And a counseling statement. Just for starters

Response by Sgt Andy Watson made Sep 18 at 2019 8:07 AM

2019-09-18T08:07:29-04:00

hahahahahaha I can't stop laughing about this. I remember hearing one my young not so bright and very special Marines start along those lines with a fellow NCO of mine. We quickly assisted him in understanding that "Normal Working Hours" are for civilians, and 24/7 is the life of Uncle Sam's Misguided Children.

Response by SGT David Whitley made Sep 18 at 2019 9:03 AM

2019-09-18T09:03:14-04:00

You could get ugly and vengeful about it as many are suggesting, but you know that will just cause your sm to become less effective in the tasks you need them to do.
Try two things:
1, figure out if maybe you can do a better job of passing information during typical duty hours,
2, encourage your sm to talk freely with you in a private chat during work to see if there’s major life stresses that they’re facing.
Often those kinds of snarky remarks stem from a loss in confidence of leadership, since you’re the leader, I’d take a look at myself in that scenario for the answer to that problem.

Response by SGT Keith Whitmire made Sep 18 at 2019 9:55 AM

2019-09-18T09:55:15-04:00

Is that what our Military has come to? Texting your subordinates? Duty hours were 24/7 when I was an active duty soldier.

Response by Sgt Peter Schlesiona made Sep 18 at 2019 10:10 AM

2019-09-18T10:10:55-04:00

Wow! Just Wow! I’ll be nice and say maybe the guy was just trying (badly) to be funny.
In my day, this guy would have found himself getting a whole new perspective on “working hours”.

Response by SPC Lewis Griffin made Sep 18 at 2019 12:04 PM

2019-09-18T12:04:04-04:00

If he/she was a real E-4, the correct response would’ve been roger. That’s something a Private would say and if the E-4 wants to act like a private, then treat them like one!!!

Response by MAJ Ron Peery made Sep 18 at 2019 3:53 PM

2019-09-18T15:53:49-04:00

As an officer, I'd call my Platoon Sergeant, tell him one of his soldiers had a deficiency that needed correction, and discuss the situation with him. Next day, I'd find the kid raking gravel, stacking empty milk crates, or whatever other boring, repetitive work deeded doing. In one case, my First Sergeant had a soldier dig two graves, one for himself and one for his buddy.....with a table spoon. I think we'd convince the smartass kid that his work hours were whenever we needed him.

Response by SPC Rick LaBonte made Sep 18 at 2019 4:23 PM

2019-09-18T16:23:00-04:00

I was an E4 the final two years of my enlistment. For 6 months of that time I was in a relationship where I often spent the night at my girlfriend’s place.
This was before cell phones. I maintained my space in the barracks, took care of my obligations as a soldier, and gave my squad leader, shop foreman, and section chief my girlfriend’s home phone number. They looked the other way on me not staying the night in the barracks and I never would’ve abused that privilege by saying something THAT stupid!

Response by PO1 Red Altman made Sep 18 at 2019 5:37 PM

2019-09-18T17:37:21-04:00

I'd probably steam, momentarily, then, when I finished laughing, I'd remind him/her, likely not so gently, that their sorry a$$ belongs to the Navy & me 24/7/365.

Response by CSM Thomas Fell made Sep 18 at 2019 6:06 PM

2019-09-18T18:06:32-04:00

Wall locker to wall locker counseling.

Response by CDR Edward Champagne made Sep 18 at 2019 6:33 PM

2019-09-18T18:33:40-04:00

There is no time outside of normal work days. In the military, you are on call and on duty 24/7.

Response by MAJ Rene De La Rosa made Sep 18 at 2019 9:16 PM

2019-09-18T21:16:31-04:00

It is amazing how short-sighted people are.

Response by SPC Kevin Ford made Sep 18 at 2019 10:01 PM

2019-09-18T22:01:46-04:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2f-MZ2HRHQ

Cool Hand Luke - Failure to Communicate

This is what the world has right now.

Response by CPO Gregory Muller made Sep 18 at 2019 10:12 PM

2019-09-18T22:12:42-04:00

You’re in, 24-7-365.

Response by Chris Brock made Sep 18 at 2019 10:39 PM

2019-09-18T22:39:16-04:00

Find a latrine that needs cleaning for said E4

Response by William Barry made Sep 19 at 2019 2:55 AM

2019-09-19T02:55:56-04:00

there is no after working hours. you are an essential government employee. if I am needed for an overtime shift they will call. the state psychiatric hospital never closes just like the bases.

Response by MSG Brian Wiscott made Sep 24 at 2019 2:03 PM

2019-09-24T14:03:03-04:00

When I first joined back in the 70s the Army's view was if the Army's view of having a family was, " if the Army wanted you to have a family they would have issued you one. And time off was an earned privilege. You are on duty 24-7. Now it has turned so far around that an NCO has to practically beg for someone to work "OVERTIME".

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2019 7:45 PM

2019-09-27T19:45:52-04:00

I would probably arrange for a command post or something similar to call him at 2:00 AM a few nights in a row.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2019 8:07 AM

2019-10-01T08:07:11-04:00

Explain to that SPC that his wife is not allowed to touch his phone anymore (because that is the only reasonable justification to a response like that).

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2019 10:35 AM

2019-10-01T10:35:03-04:00

When I swore in that was also when I clocked in...as a military soldier (at least to my knowledge) youre on call 24/7/365

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2019 9:15 PM

2019-10-01T21:15:07-04:00

I don't know because so many things that were formerly considered to be privileges, such that that a NCOIC possessed the authority to revoke are now viewed as entitlements so that only a commader meting out NJP or as punishment after conviction at CM may disturb; including free-time. I enlisted in Dec 1983 and retired as an Army JAG in 2015 and can't answer with much confidence. I've seen too many careers ended for taking what I otherwise considered to be suitable corrective training.

Response by SFC Scott Higgins made Oct 2 at 2019 11:03 AM

2019-10-02T11:03:55-04:00

I would pull the individual aside. Just after the personnel inspection. Ask them what was going on. find out why they made the statement they did. Then possibly remind them that the Army dictates the "working hours" and as anyone on a deployment or a war zone figures out, the Working hours are 24/7. If that doesn't work, extra training would be in order and if necessary, disciplinary action, but only as a last resort.

Response by SP5 Gary Smith made Oct 2 at 2019 11:25 PM

2019-10-02T23:25:18-04:00

Really?

Response by PO2 Patrick Dwyer made Oct 3 at 2019 1:53 AM

2019-10-03T01:53:57-04:00

Received permission to work an after hours job from my chief at which time he reminded me as long as it does not conflict with your service responsibilities. This was in the 70’s as an E-5 I understood this without reinforcement from my senior NCO. That boot needs to be restricted to base so he or she can rethink their allegiance.

Response by SPC Charlie Msrtin made Oct 3 at 2019 12:35 PM

2019-10-03T12:35:01-04:00

I would have them pull 72 hours of CQ duty on an three day holiday weekend

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 4 at 2019 2:40 AM

2019-10-04T02:40:57-04:00

Tell em’ it’ll buff and fuck off

Response by CPT Robert Holden made Oct 4 at 2019 7:33 AM

2019-10-04T07:33:36-04:00

Well since You can’t smack them I’d definitely remind them you our rank them and there is no such thing as off work until your discharged

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 4 at 2019 7:46 AM

2019-10-04T07:46:38-04:00

Remind them simply they are released, however they are on duty 24 hours a day.
If it has to go any further than that, 45/45 with some rank usually fixes the issue.

Response by SP5 Derick Johnsohne made Oct 5 at 2019 12:41 AM

2019-10-05T00:41:37-04:00

'retraining' was the old expression, wasn't it ?

Response by MSG Michael Kissamitakis made Oct 5 at 2019 5:59 PM

2019-10-05T17:59:00-04:00

Text them? Sign of the times.

Response by SPC Phillip Vossler made Oct 6 at 2019 1:54 PM

2019-10-06T13:54:48-04:00

I cannot imagine the stupidity that is mentioned in this article actually taking place, it makes my brain hurt. I was a Spc when i left the army in 05, i remembered hearing years before that you are on salary for a reason. You are a soldier, your business hours are 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. You can be called on at ANY time. The nerve of that dumbass telling their NCO, im off and to leave them alone. It sure as hell doesn't work that way in a combat zone. If i had tried that, i think i would have been murdered. But then again, i served from 98-05, the army has since become far softer than i remembered.

Response by PO2 Jesse Thompson made Oct 6 at 2019 2:27 PM

2019-10-06T14:27:10-04:00

My E4 just went on 24 hour duty , and the first lip he then becomes an E3 worjjbg on E2

Response by CPT Jason Richey made Oct 6 at 2019 2:36 PM

2019-10-06T14:36:45-04:00

This type of shit shouldn’t happen anywhere, Military or civilian. Let one of my subordinates respond to me that way after hours and les see which way their career heads, and who gets the shit details from now on. My boss doesn’t expect me to work after hours, including email or phone calls, but I do because I want to succeed and when I do things similar to this situation it’s because I want others to succeed as well.

Response by SSG Charles Yahnke made Oct 6 at 2019 2:51 PM

2019-10-06T14:51:27-04:00

Unless Uncle Sam issued that communication device there is no need for me to have access to it.

Response by MSgt Ed Rogerzinsky made Oct 6 at 2019 4:01 PM

2019-10-06T16:01:38-04:00

I'd respectfully tell the person they are on duty/call 24/7 and if ever questioned it again their ass would be mine. End of story.

Response by Capt Wayne Burden made Oct 6 at 2019 6:34 PM

2019-10-06T18:34:18-04:00

This E-4 needs some immediate re-training! Since military service is 24/7, there is no such thing as being “outside working hours”, as every hour of every day you can be called to duty. This mindset is a result of improper training and indoctrination into military life. Besides all this, their response shows a severe lack of respect for their superior. A repeat of this type of response and/or behavior might be fodder for non-judicial punishment... check with your JAG office. Be sure this response is documented and dealt with... don’t let it slide as this bad attitude will only become worse and can poison a whole unit.

Response by SSG Mike Fannings made Oct 6 at 2019 6:54 PM

2019-10-06T18:54:45-04:00

The army sure has changed. What ever happened to a soldier was on duty 24/ 7 365 and subject to recall at anytime day or night. That living off post is a privilege, bot a right. In my day even married personnel could be restricted to base.

Response by SSG Mike Fannings made Oct 6 at 2019 6:58 PM

2019-10-06T18:58:00-04:00

Jason McLaughlin we used to call that Special High Intensity Training.

Response by CSM Lynn Chrisman made Oct 6 at 2019 6:59 PM

2019-10-06T18:59:30-04:00

Oh the responses are endless and loud

Response by CPL Matthew Havens made Oct 6 at 2019 6:59 PM

2019-10-06T18:59:33-04:00

As a soldier no matter what rank you are you are on duty 24-7. I spent plenty of Saturdays at hq outside the aromry door cause the power grid was out. Any soldier who thinks its a 9-5 best get out cause its not 9-5.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 6 at 2019 8:12 PM

2019-10-06T20:12:31-04:00

I had a Soldier pull this on me. He also claimed that calling his house to find him while he was supposed to be at work was harassment. The commander thought it was an issue with me and moved the soldier to another platoon. That soldier didn’t stay in the military long after that.

Response by SFC Michael Barry made Oct 6 at 2019 10:16 PM

2019-10-06T22:16:08-04:00

Bring their little happy ass into the CP and have a 1:1 school the soldier session and have them sign in with BN CQ every hour on the hour

Response by SGT Aaron Tollman made Oct 6 at 2019 10:17 PM

2019-10-06T22:17:58-04:00

First off, you explain that they are a Soldier, Sailor, Marine, Airman 24 / 7 / 365 and that they are subject to recall at the discretion of the commander. Then you need to work out why this SM is reacting this way and fix the problem. Maybe there are personal issues at home, maybe personal issues with you. Those need to be sorted out. Sometimes this can be fixed with a "heart to heart" sometimes it may take more firm and formal disciplinary action. They need to be clear that free time is a privilege in the military, if they wanted a regular 9 to 5 they should have gotten a civilian job.

Response by MSG Bob Metz made Oct 7 at 2019 7:03 AM

2019-10-07T07:03:42-04:00

Simply counsel the young troop as to the real world of Military. He left civilian life behind when he signed the line. It’s in his own best interest that he no longer live under delusions of what is expected of him.

Response by SGT Jerry Jackson made Oct 7 at 2019 8:51 AM

2019-10-07T08:51:30-04:00

Extra pt

Response by SGT John Lossos made Oct 7 at 2019 11:12 AM

2019-10-07T11:12:17-04:00

I inform said E-4 that they belong to Uncle Sam 24/7 and 365 1/4. You are given “ off duty hours “ at the discretion of your superiors relative to the accomplishment of the mission/tasks at hand. If a superior needs to reinforce upcoming events , and does so after 1600 hours you WILL comply with military bearing and decorum BECAUSE you are NEVER off duty!

Response by SP6 Bruce Jerome made Oct 7 at 2019 11:36 AM

2019-10-07T11:36:44-04:00

Have them return to duty NOW

Response by SSG Kenneth Ponder made Oct 7 at 2019 2:11 PM

2019-10-07T14:11:03-04:00

You signed a contract for 24/7, 365 days a year. That individual would be pulling extra duty for 6 months or until further notifiedl

Response by SSG(P) Danielle Birtha made Oct 7 at 2019 3:23 PM

2019-10-07T15:23:37-04:00

lol... "you are G.I. ... Government Issued. You are a soldier 24/7/365 and WILL be available for duty at all times SOLDIER! I will contact you while off duty, at the needs of the U.S., and YOU WILL BE CERTAIN THAT I CAN REACH YOU 24/7/365, AND YOU WILL REPORT FOR DUTY ON COMMAND, or you will lose all Pass privileges... DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME SOLDIER?"
Nuff said ;)

Response by SgtMaj Nick Lopez made Oct 7 at 2019 3:37 PM

2019-10-07T15:37:56-04:00

First of all no Corporal in the Marine Corps would ever say that, especially to a Sergeant Major. His First Sergeant would get a visit or call from me. That would be all that I would need to do. The rest is case history and left for the imagination. As a First Sergeant... If there was ever such a Marine he wouldn’t be a Corporal for much longer. In the mean time, my duty NCO for Saturday duty would find himself relived by said Corporal. This Corporal would then find a long list of special orders to complete before this tour of duty was over. This Saturday duty would be repeated until I’m tired. 96 or 72 weekends work well in correcting problems like this.

Response by A1C William Bowen made Oct 7 at 2019 5:48 PM

2019-10-07T17:48:02-04:00

You belong to the military 24/7 . Just because your not on duty doesn't mean a thing.

Response by SGT Robert Kraft made Oct 7 at 2019 6:44 PM

2019-10-07T18:44:39-04:00

24 hour duty. Surprise inspections. The list goes on. Not to count the remedial P.T.

Response by SGT Myke Michael made Oct 7 at 2019 9:30 PM

2019-10-07T21:30:41-04:00

Being in the military is a 24/7 commitment. Everyone who volunteers knows this already. No excuse.

Response by 1SG John Highfill made Oct 7 at 2019 9:32 PM

2019-10-07T21:32:52-04:00

Easy , SGT’s time tomorrow 1600 hrs motivational training

Response by Sgt Jon Mcvay made Oct 17 at 2019 1:26 PM

2019-10-17T13:26:44-04:00

for one I would inform them that they are on call 24/7/365 days a week and if I need them to come in after hours then they better get their butt into work. I would also inform them that they are on the verge is insubordination with that tone.

Response by PV2 Glen Lewis made Oct 19 at 2019 12:51 PM

2019-10-19T12:51:48-04:00

All hours are working hours in the military. Cram it down his throat if you have to but damned well make sure he understands it.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2019 6:47 PM

2019-10-25T18:47:25-04:00

Offer them Article 15, or accept a Court Martial for Article 91 - Insubordination

Response by SGT James Hamill made Oct 31 at 2019 5:59 PM

2019-10-31T17:59:35-04:00

The ARMY owns you 24/7/52!

Response by Capt Al Parker made Nov 13 at 2019 4:54 PM

2019-11-13T16:54:50-05:00

I thought once you said the oath of enlistment you were on a possibie 24/7 schedule.

Response by MAJ Lee Goehl made Nov 16 at 2019 12:32 AM

2019-11-16T00:32:19-05:00

I know I've been retired over 20 now, but damn did I miss a memo?

Response by CPT Tim Iund made Nov 20 at 2019 1:49 PM

2019-11-20T13:49:04-05:00

Remind them that they are service members 24/7 for the length of their enlistment, and can be recalled to the unit hq for a pre-inspection brief if they would prefer it over a reminder text.

Response by CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana made Nov 22 at 2019 8:39 AM

2019-11-22T08:39:18-05:00

Extra duty, additional duty, etc are options I would explore with the non-commissioned officers for this soldier. The intent would be to keep this insubordinate soldier engaged at the Unit, so no one needs to contact following duty till the following start of business. A third option would be to assign this soldier to staff duty for the night. There are many ways of curing a smart aleck in uniform.

Response by SGT Thomas LaRochelle made Nov 25 at 2019 12:44 AM

2019-11-25T00:44:07-05:00

You text back that they need to be at the motor pool in 30 min and if they don't show they will get a counseling statement for failure to follow a direct order and for insubordination. Nip that attitude in the bud immediately!

Response by 1SG Varonica Young made Nov 30 at 2019 11:01 AM

2019-11-30T11:01:31-05:00

I would respect their standpoint. And I would still send texts on a needed basis. It iui s not what you say, it's how you say it. For what it is worth, I dont want shit to do with work once I step out of uniform. My family time is for my family.

Response by SFC Michael Mott made Dec 1 at 2019 6:16 PM

2019-12-01T18:16:44-05:00

It's too easy to explain the error in his thought process. You go to basic to become a Soldier first. Even in OSUT. Soldiers don't work hourly, you are on salary... you work 24-7, and at any time you can and will be required to work. So after this explanation toy should understand that your daily work schedule is only an additional duty to your actual job, which is being a Soldier...all day, all night, until your discharge...

Response by SPC Steven Nihipali made Dec 16 at 2019 1:10 AM

2019-12-16T01:10:24-05:00

As his senior, contact that motherfucker every hour, 1 min past the last hour. Set it in your phone for someone text. Fuck this piece of shit. Remind their ass that they work for the people, 24/7/365... bitch don't thin about sleeping either

Response by CPO Lou Oliver made Dec 29 at 2019 11:55 PM

2019-12-29T23:55:45-05:00

The real question is why do you have to remind your subordinates? Are they too ill trained to be trusted? If that is the case, look into the mirror to see who is at fault, because well trained subordinates do not need to be reminded.
Furthermore, trying to mother them does no one any good, not you or them. So lack your lines and let them sink or swim.
However, you should know that even a mother hen needs to insure that the pecking order is maintained. Therefore, you should buy a few toothbrushes, but do not go Full Metal Jacket on those subordinates they are sailors, not marines.

Response by MSgt Robert Walters made Jan 5 at 2020 10:35 PM

2020-01-05T22:35:07-05:00

His “Working Hour” schedule is located on the same form as filing for overtime. The exception would be (Time Lines) for Air Crew Members or those working on critical components. Discipline in today’s military has greatly changed from the “Do Or Die” days in 1968. The Draft had a positive effect on one’s desire to Adapt to the Military other than the Army & Marines, they were glad to take our problem children for walking point.

Response by COL William Oseles made Mar 28 at 2020 6:25 PM

2020-03-28T18:25:08-04:00

Start their Chapter

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Mar 28 at 2020 6:57 PM

2020-03-28T18:57:21-04:00

Your always on duty, he might be the duty NCO for a month. Really, just don’t be a shit head, don’t be that guy. It’s really not that hard, really some guys have like zero survival instincts. If you said that shit to the company Gunny your life would be a living hell, when a yes Gunny is all that was required.

Response by SPC John Decker made Mar 28 at 2020 11:58 PM

2020-03-28T23:58:32-04:00

Remind them that they chose that life and that it is a 24/7/365 job. They are only off-duty if they are on leave and even then, under the right circumstances, they would still be required to report.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Apr 24 at 2020 3:07 PM

2020-04-24T15:07:57-04:00

In the first place I leave people alone during their off duty hours, if I do call there is a duty related reason and I'm NOT going to put up with any guff or disrespect or allow any confusion to the fact when its My job to contact them I will ! In reality You are subject to call anytime, any day, any hour. Even as a civilian, if I need to contact You as a subordinate at home or off duty , I will. Anyone that works for another that doesn't like that maybe doesn't want to keep their job. I very much limit calling people that aren't on duty and usually don't if it can wait but no one that works for Me is going to dictate policy to me. I will add though in over 50 years of Military and civilian work withe Me as a Manger or Supervisor, no one had ever done that.

Response by 2LT Earl Dean made Apr 25 at 2020 11:18 AM

2020-04-25T11:18:12-04:00

I just remind them that they signed and rasied their hands entering the Army and it's a twenty four hours a day job!

Response by MSgt Brian Williams made Jun 14 at 2020 6:02 PM

2020-06-14T18:02:21-04:00

I'd blow it off for that night but the next morning...

Response by PO1 Robert Edwards made Oct 23 at 2020 11:56 AM

2020-10-23T11:56:17-04:00

I was a civilian worker at a Navy Unit. One of the military mentioned about working hours and then said he was on duty. I thought in my mind, (using my Tom Hanks voice), “There’s no working hours when you’re on duty!” You’re in the military 24/7. When you are on duty, duty day is 24 hours. Not at 1700, then you can go home. It’s 24 hours.

Response by MSgt James Slawson made Jan 11 at 2021 4:34 PM

2021-01-11T16:34:52-05:00

If it is business they have no choice. If the unit is on two ring standby, which they should always be (getting paid 24 hours a day) then he or she must be available. If there is no emergency then no need to contact them, but a recall is a mandatory formation.

Response by PO3 Jake Lucid made Jan 18 at 2021 11:09 PM

2021-01-18T23:09:07-05:00

Simple. You modify their work hours so if you are working late - They are working late. And after the work week is done. Politely bring up the subject and ask them if they mind a text or wish to be present in uniform for reminders and after hours notifications. Simple off the books non judicial punishment that goes no further than you. Sometimes E4s start getting too big for their collars and need knocking down a peg. I know I did, and afelter a similar misunderstanding with a chief - all was well and good.
In truth I just needed a brake check on reality.

Response by SSgt Daniel Batista made Jan 29 at 2021 7:09 AM

2021-01-29T07:09:35-05:00

His ass belongs to his leadership 24/7 while in the military. Any call beyond his duty time made by his leadership as long as is not of a personal nature, or obvious harassment should be answered by the subordinate.

Response by SP5 Andrew Jackson made Jan 29 at 2021 12:20 PM

2021-01-29T12:20:25-05:00

in the service you are on the job 24/7 and just tell them that or artical 15 there but

Response by Cpl Bernard Bates made Jan 29 at 2021 1:05 PM

2021-01-29T13:05:49-05:00

In the military I thought everyone was on call 24hrs a day 7days a week. You are the United States 911 force anywhere in the world when needed. I know when I was in the Marine Corp on ship going to Okinawa in 61 as replacements we took our rifles with us in case we were needed somewhere else in the world. In an emergency we could be sent where needed MOS. didn't make any difference we were rifleman. Semper Fi.

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Feb 18 at 2021 10:01 PM

2021-02-18T22:01:55-05:00

Extra duty

Response by SGT Brad Baier made Feb 18 at 2021 10:14 PM

2021-02-18T22:14:03-05:00

I remember being told before I signed my enlistment papers, that once I signed I belonged to Uncle Sam for 8 years. He says jump I jump.

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Feb 27 at 2021 8:14 PM

2021-02-27T20:14:15-05:00

I would have lots of sergeants time. Beginning at COB

Response by CDR Tom Davy made Feb 28 at 2021 9:52 AM

2021-02-28T09:52:19-05:00

I just re-read the issue. The NCO's 1800 message did not require a reply, it was just a heads up, which is what leaders do. A simple "thanks, Gunny" would be the perfect response. It also served as a reminder to the troops that Top works longer hours than they do.

Response by SFC Craig Titzkowski made Mar 1 at 2021 3:46 PM

2021-03-01T15:46:25-05:00

Wow I need more info but it sound like the subordinate Need to do some after hours. Along with a retraining section with a PLT or Section Training by him on his right and what it means to be assigned a position of leadership over more senior people. A very good example is a 1SG or SCPO in charge of any large command HQ. Company position puts him over SMG or MCPO working with in the HQ the SCPO or 1SG make and ensures command and company policies are carried out. Be respectful but firm always make sure the policy or rule is being used correctly. I would say 10000 word SA and a 20 slide training briefing the PLT or Section on the next training day. Invite all Senior NCO to attend and evaluate his training. Every good leader offers a hand when a soldier struggle so make she his training goes well and you will find out you may have a new adversary with in your soldier not a Subordinate. Thats all I got on that. Good Luck

Response by PO1 Frank Reiffenstein made Mar 7 at 2021 8:01 AM

2021-03-07T08:01:07-05:00

You are on duty 24-7. That includes while you are on leave you can be called back. Then I would probably laugh at them.

Response by SFC Charles Hough made Mar 11 at 2021 8:15 AM

2021-03-11T08:15:10-05:00

Well since he/ she is a Soldier 24/7 until their contract expires seems there is no choice. A little extra duty may just be what is needed. Also you could look into the UCMJ and see if the situation warrants moving the Soldier into the barracks, being married does not guarantee they are permitted to not live in the barracks.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2021 8:40 PM

2021-03-11T20:40:25-05:00

"Volunteer" that subordinate for the next trip to Afghanistan and see if "off duty" still exists.

Response by SGT Luther Switzer made Mar 15 at 2021 9:07 AM

2021-03-15T09:07:50-04:00

Seems they need to be reminded that they are "on call" 24 hrs, a day. If you want a 9 to 5 job then this isn't for you.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2021 9:34 AM

2021-03-15T09:34:39-04:00

Maybe a reminder that as a SOLDIER YOU ARE ON DUTY, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year until you ETS. Then put your words to action as SCPO Jason McLaughlin states.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2021 2:03 PM

2021-03-15T14:03:55-04:00

The first reaction out of most of is,”I’ll teach him what working hours are in the military”. And aside from the different ways to do that, it should be an opportunity for exactly that.. We all have weekly/monthly/quarterly training, etc. Here’s an opportunity to assign “Service Member NinetoFive” a training topic. Find the actual instruction under Military Regs and have him train your division/group/unit etc on what the contractual obligations that constitutes working hours are. Remember, he signed said contract so now here’s a chance to refresh him and the rest of the group on exactly what that means. It’s hard for SM NinetoFive to retract from that after he’s trained Everybody else on it. Next!

Response by SPC Bill Ratajczak made Mar 17 at 2021 4:08 PM

2021-03-17T16:08:32-04:00

Remind them they get paid for 24/7 365, then smoke his a**!

Response by SFC Erin Barnett made Mar 18 at 2021 9:48 AM

2021-03-18T09:48:22-04:00

This could get ugly fast if not put down immediately. I would explain to the individual that I value "Off" time as much as they do, and if I am contacting them, that means I am working too. I would however remind them that being in the military is a 24/7/365 job. It is not Wal-Mart or McDonalds where they are punching a clock. They will respond and conduct themselves accordingly or face disciplinary action.

Response by LTJG Sandra Smith made Mar 22 at 2021 11:59 AM

2021-03-22T11:59:20-04:00

Time for a serious explanation of the meaning of 24/7- 365. The military is NOT a 9-5 M-F job!

Response by SSG Paul Headlee made Mar 22 at 2021 2:45 PM

2021-03-22T14:45:35-04:00

Somebody is making too much money.

Response by Lt Col Robert Van Hee made Mar 24 at 2021 12:33 PM

2021-03-24T12:33:37-04:00

The polite yet firm way to handle it is to remind them they are available for duty 24 hours a day, and you will contact them anytime you need to. If the prrson ssys they dont consider themselves available 24 hours daily, remind them it is not a matter of their preference, and it is not negotiable. If the resistance continues, put them on duty outside of the normal workshift for a while. That should make the point clear.

Response by SP5 Derick Johnsohne made Mar 24 at 2021 3:31 PM

2021-03-24T15:31:57-04:00

procedure for discharge or reeducation since that subordinate is in the wrong 'profession' !

Response by SPC Russell Edgett made Mar 25 at 2021 11:21 AM

2021-03-25T11:21:32-04:00

Have the soldier stay for several hours after retreat, and give them BS to do around the company , CQ , and Battalion areas For awhile, and maybe a weekend as well.

Response by CPT Keith Celebrezze made Mar 25 at 2021 12:20 PM

2021-03-25T12:20:44-04:00

NJP.

He knows he's a soldier. He's testing you. Despite that, make him your friend. They're easier to convince than enemies.

Good luck.

Response by MSgt James Slawson made Mar 25 at 2021 8:30 PM

2021-03-25T20:30:43-04:00

Unfortunately there are no “after hours” in the military you are on call 25 hours 8 days a week. How about being put on 2 ring standby?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2021 5:58 PM

2021-03-26T17:58:32-04:00

"Listen up Twinkle Toes, you and I are never OFF THE CLOCK. You are a soldier or Airman or Coastie or Marine or Sailor 24/7." This strikes me as an opportunity for "hip pocket training" on being an adult in the all volunteer armed forces.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2021 6:03 PM

2021-03-26T18:03:42-04:00

This is a generational issue that of course creeps into all the service branches. The attitude needs to be in the words of Deputy Fife something that leaders at all levels need to NIP IN THE BUD! Two men I know are business owners. One had a female barber show up late one too many times and so he fired her. Then he gets a call from the ex employees mama: "Understand she really NEEDS this job!" He was way more tactful than me and said more or less "She musta not needed it that much or she would have exerted greater effort to arrive on time" Another man had a young male arrive late. So he took the man into his office. He explained what his expectations were and the boy's exact words were: "Look I'm here now. What more than you want?" Despite the impression you might draw from this and other reactions I am not anyone's hard ass my way or the highway sorta guy at all. But a generation of young Americans raised with participation trophies is now moving out into the work force.

Response by CPO Kurt Baschab made Mar 27 at 2021 4:00 PM

2021-03-27T16:00:21-04:00

I would Start with calling Member to the a Chiefs mess , for a Work UNIFORM INSPECTION, then a Dress Uniform Inspection , Locker & RACK Inspection .
why?
it important to start with getting the member Squared away with his Uniform before taking the next step, member must have Pride in service and self , and if he dose not have pride in service and self , you will get no where.
so once you get him Squared away with his UNIFORM , once that is done, then address his subornation towards you the Chief , you and the Chiefs mess should have Re-Established your Role as the Leader, by Getting him Squared away on his Uniforms and ship Regulations on what the ship recall status is, and what his responsibilities are. ie: he is on recall 24-7, that doesn't mean we should abuse it, by playing games with are junior members because we do not like them, no we should mentor them, or Assigned a Mentor to him or her, to help get them squared away, to help them have pride in self and service.

now that you have broken him down and Squared him away in his Uniform , and corrected his Disrespect towards his senior leadership by getting him Squared away with Pride in self and service,
it is time to build him backup into that SQUARED AWAY SAILOR , SOLDIER OR AIRMEN you want him or her to be, so either you mentor him or Assigned a Mentor to him to help him study and advance .
I find most Members that do not Have Pride in service or self, do not know how to preform there Job, and are to Ashamed to ask for help or Guidance, they are afraid they will be made fun of, belittled etc, so they never ask for help, they lash out, get dis respectful, or they have personal Issue going on at home .
so do not be afraid to set member down and talk to them to find out what going on, does he or she need a mentor to help them get up to speed on there job? or is there a personal issue at home ?

Response by SSG Rob Lawrence made Apr 9 at 2021 6:01 PM

2021-04-09T18:01:57-04:00

I would refer this person to something called PSAMFWB ( pick, shovel and mother F**king wheel barrel). This was a group of off duty soldiers referred to the 1sgt for beautification of the company area. This would help this young person to realize the duty day ever ends because the commitment upon enlistment is 24/7. If this young person refused the idea of helping the 1Sgt after hours, then an Article 15 might help them understand their duty hours in the military. The crazy thing about an Article 15 is, the person will possibly lose rank and money and stilll end up on the 1Sgt after duty hours.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2021 9:51 PM

2021-04-17T21:51:08-04:00

You didnt specify, so this answer is going to be a little Army flavored. First I'd have to ask myself some questions.
What kind of unit are we? Where are we in the training cycle? What kind of Soldier is this? Who else is the Soldier getting texts from after they've been released? What else does the Soldier have going on? What are the consequences if the Soldier doesnt reply to these texts?Then I'd prepare a Developmental Counseling Statement.
We would sit down and have a conversation.
I'd ask the Soldier to explain their thinking behind telling me I don't need to contact them.
I'd listen, then I'd counsel the Soldier on right and wrong ways to have that conversation. I'd also explain that I'm just providing information for our best interests to keep us all out of trouble with the 1SG and Commander.
Obviously I'm filling in a lot of blanks because you havent provided that level of detail, HOWEVER,
I can imagine legit reasons why a Soldier may really desire not to be receiving these off-duty texts. If the Soldier is squared away and on time, and doesnt need your extra reminders... maybe rrspect that Soldiers have lives too. They attend classes. They have spouses, sometimes spouses that work different shifts than we do, and kids to get through homework and dinner and baths and in bed, and sleeping babies. Maybe they have one of those crazy spouse or boyfriend/girlfriend that thinks everytime the phone buzzes they are cheating. Or maybe they just like to spend their time without the anxiety of failing to reply to the Sergeant's texts. Limit your use of after duty communications to what is important and treat your Soldiers in accordance with their performance.
Getting a text from every step of the NCO Chain, and then another text every time every other Soldier replies can be really disruptive.
If the Soldier feels he/she is expected to reply to your every text within 15 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour, whatever, means they spend their time stuck monitoring their phone.
Lastly, one of the faults we have with the technology is that we take it for granted that we have reachability of Soldiers at our fingertips. Instead of making sure we (and I mean we- all the way up the chain of command) are doing our job and providing our Soldiers with the proper information at the proper time. Just because we CAN send them texts whenever we want to, doesnt mean we should.

Response by CPL Deanna Green (Parkinson) made Apr 21 at 2021 9:07 PM

2021-04-21T21:07:42-04:00

I was an MP...please define regular working hours??? WTH?

Response by SSgt Jeff Geurin made Apr 22 at 2021 11:06 AM

2021-04-22T11:06:31-04:00

I'd tell them no problem. You'll never hear from me again after your ETS date. Til then, you're on the clock 24/7, Tinkerbell.

Response by SSG Jim Husselman made Apr 25 at 2021 4:36 PM

2021-04-25T16:36:56-04:00

Not to mention when you joined military service your duty hours go to 24/7 HOOAAH

Response by CPO Deborah Simmons made Apr 26 at 2021 8:43 AM

2021-04-26T08:43:17-04:00

What military are they in???? There is no such thing as "after working hours" as long as they are on active duty.

Response by SSgt Paul Millard made Apr 27 at 2021 4:12 PM

2021-04-27T16:12:01-04:00

Is this serious? Might want the E4 to reread his Oath. There are no hours of work in the military. You where and when you are told. As other have noted, there is additional mandatory formations available for those that think they are part timers.

Response by SGT Randall Smith made Apr 30 at 2021 8:04 AM

2021-04-30T08:04:59-04:00

Things may have changed since the mid. 60's but we were told we were on duty 24/7. We use to laugh when I was a PFC that our pay came out to about 55 cents an hour. But when there was an alert at 2am every one including the off base men were required to be in formation with all their gear.
That was not after hours.

Response by Capt Robert Vincelette made May 1 at 2021 2:31 PM

2021-05-01T14:31:00-04:00

Such behavior does not belong in the military. Still, be very careful not to contact the subordinate to ask for him or her to do a personal errand because conflicts of interest can result in a court martial.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2021 3:42 PM

2021-05-02T15:42:39-04:00

I'd counsel them for sure and cite the proponent regulations regarding duty status (aka 24/7). Not only that, I would also cite Article 91 of UCMJ as well, since this arguably is insubordination as well.

But what I would do for remedial action regarding this is to have them work from my office with me present; I have a lot of great ideas for all the classes that they can teach their fellow service members. And! They get the benefit of hearing me babble all day along about all my ideas, which they get to translate them into classes they will have to teach (and one of them will definitely be on article 91 of UCMJ). I'm sure it will be distracting and annoying and a great time had by all. They'll get a cordial, voluntold invitation to lunch with me, and rest assured they won't have the benefit of having their cell phone on them during chow. They also get to go on latrine breaks when I go on latrine breaks. So much fun! Don't worry, they get to go home at 1600, and then come back and do the same thing the next day until the assigned classes are done. If they "just" want to deal with me between 0600 and 1600, then it gets to be on my terms, not theirs.

Response by SSG Gregg Mourizen made May 3 at 2021 3:53 PM

2021-05-03T15:53:05-04:00

Just remind him that his duty hours are 0000 to 2400 hours. You are only required to allow him 4 hours of sleep. Nothing says it has to be continuous.
Then start assigning him random duty hours, extra duty, and random assignments, to emphasize the point. If he lives off post. Make him/her a resident of the barracks for a few weeks, with random check-in's from the staff duty. The D--A-- is an E-4 and should know better.

Response by SSG Rick Robbins made May 7 at 2021 8:26 PM

2021-05-07T20:26:03-04:00

Advise him he is a salaried employee and not hourly and hence, there is not an after hours.

Response by SP6 M. R. Teeters made May 23 at 2021 11:42 PM

2021-05-23T23:42:52-04:00

1) WAIT UNTIL THE NEXT DAY
2) TELL HIM YOU WOULD HAVE CALLED LAST NIGHT, BUT...
3) You see now how disturbed the text made him so you waited until a time all rational thinkers could agree is "duty time' and explain..
4) WHY THE ARMY IS TAKING A STRIPE BACK!!
5) Then ask for him to review your communication style, enlist his help in forming koombayah talking circles.

WTF happened to my family's Army!! He|| I went in after Vietnam and we weren't even this woosified. Wake up!!
Warfighters DOES MEAN NEVER having to say your sorry!! If this has become the Brownies, I weep for my nation.

Response by CPO Jeffrey Bohemier made May 25 at 2021 5:13 AM

2021-05-25T05:13:15-04:00

When you’re in the military, working hours generally run from 0000.01 to 2359.59, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.

Response by SFC Charles Kauffman made May 25 at 2021 4:01 PM

2021-05-25T16:01:26-04:00

I would inform the 1SG. This actually happened to an E6 of mine when I was a 1SG. I immediately moved that little asshole back into the barracks.

Response by MSgt Walter Clack made May 30 at 2021 3:50 PM

2021-05-30T15:50:41-04:00

Wait a second, why is a CPO "Officer Candiate" needing advise like this. Seems to me you need to return to PO3 and learn these things!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2021 11:23 PM

2021-05-30T23:23:29-04:00

I would explain the regulations to my young troop and remind him of the possible consequences for insubordination. If the problem persisted, then I would take the next appropriate (yet creative) corrective training steps.

Response by SSG Franklin Briant made May 31 at 2021 1:02 AM

2021-05-31T01:02:02-04:00

I have been retired for 20 years now after serving 20 and change. I had troops who questioned the right I had to keep them from their after duty job. When I explained to them they signed up for a 24/7 365 job, they continued to buck. Back then we had training aids and videos explaining the same. After hours training authorized by the C.O. brought the troops back in line. They also found out that when I became professional and within the lines to give them no room to wiggle or I would get in their pocket book, they come to see my point of view. All said and done let them know they are on call 24/7 365. Do not tolerate disobedience.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2021 2:37 PM

2021-05-31T14:37:45-04:00

When I was in we were on the clock 24 hours a day and 7 days a week with Leaves and Liberty that could be canceled.

Response by SSG Byron Hewett made May 31 at 2021 3:24 PM

2021-05-31T15:24:02-04:00

Guess what SPC E-4 now PVT nothing you just won your self a ticket to the 1stSGT's extra duty detail beginning at 0400.

Response by MSG Greg Kelly made Jun 1 at 2021 7:02 AM

2021-06-01T07:02:00-04:00

I actually had a soldier try and do that. Said he lived off post and he would not be able to be contacted after hours. I explained he is a soldier 24/7 and gets paid 24/7 and will be called if needed. He showed his ass and said he would just not answer the phone. I told him that was fine his fire team would be coming to his residence with a plus 2 of the toughest meanest guys in the platoon to ensure he reported for duty. And I would personally pay for the broken door if it came to that. RIGHT/WRONG does not matter I was not going to let a soldier control the unit. And I was willing to take the hit to ensure he knew his obligations.

Response by CPT William Jones made Jun 3 at 2021 11:54 PM

2021-06-03T23:54:45-04:00

I would explain to them differently than than when I was a serving officer over 50 years ago. I would make it clear that first he already volunteered when he raised his hand on joining this organization. We are on duty 24 hours a day until given our final dd214 sometimes we are nice and give you time off to do mostly whatever you would like to do. That is subject to change with a minutes notice. But you get paid for each day for every day in the year. I may have them in front leaning rest because as we all know for some reason a person learns better in that position. Als stress that he has already volunteered for any activity he/she is given. If they don’t like it there are procedures to get released from the contract. Usually referred to as a bad discharge.

Response by PO1 Timothy Strunk made Jun 5 at 2021 10:25 AM

2021-06-05T10:25:18-04:00

My first thought would be is how the how did this person ever become an E4 that they don't know that their work day is 24/7 the entire time they are in the service?

After that I would do a thorough instruction on everything that was expected of them in order to continue at their present pay grade and depending on their response to that whether I would send this further up the chain.

Obviousky a prior SNCO dropped the ball on allowing this person to reach such a high rank with so little knowledge of the military.

Response by TSgt Leigh Nichols made Jun 7 at 2021 11:04 AM

2021-06-07T11:04:45-04:00

That particular E-4 would be "JACKED TO JESUS" for the rest of their time that I was around!

Response by SSG Bill McCoy made Jun 15 at 2021 9:34 AM

2021-06-15T09:34:06-04:00

Wow! Since your Navy, I presume you're talking about a PO3. Just, WOW!
I'd DEFINITELY "extend" his or her working hours, that's for sure! Some extra training would be appropriate, as well as a formal counselling session on military discipline, insubordination, all applicable regulations and I would get that person to understand, the military is a 24/7 contract.
Honestly, I can barely fathom that situation, but I guess today's youth with all the trophies received for losing, think the world owes them!

Response by PO2 Michael Henry made Jun 15 at 2021 10:27 AM

2021-06-15T10:27:53-04:00

Personally, before I would blow my stack I would notify my immediate supervisor or LPO and not only inform them of what just happened but also give my suggestion for a punishment. Then await for approval or additional punishment before handling it. It won't be pretty but it will stick. That E4 needs to realize that since he/she isn't on duty section that day, they are on duty 24/7 until that DD-214 is signed and issued to them.

Response by CPL Joe Zaucha made Jun 18 at 2021 1:38 PM

2021-06-18T13:38:10-04:00

I admit I’ve been out of the army for about five years now but I could’ve sworn there was some thing about 24/7 in my obligations somewhere.

Response by CSM David Litteral made Jul 14 at 2021 2:37 PM

2021-07-14T14:37:07-04:00

This reminds me of when I worked at the Cleveland MEPS. I (Army SFC) was taking my military personnel out for a PT run. I planned a nice 3-mile run along the waterfront. My wise-ass Tech SGT informed me that the Air Force only required them to run 1.5 miles for their annual PT test so, they would only need to run .75 miles out and .75 back. I informed him that we would run 1.5 miles as a section and then I would release the Airmen and they could walk back at their own pace. Not surprisingly, when we hit the turn around point, the Airmen opted to remain with the team and run back. Sure, they could have walked back, but they would have gotten off work 15 minutes late. The point is, Rule #1, when in Command, take command. Rule #2, Don't do dumb things. There are more rules but Rule #1 really answers the original question.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jul 14 at 2021 4:43 PM

2021-07-14T16:43:34-04:00

The unit trainjng schedule dictates the commanders requirements. It is not all encompassing, the supervisor may have there own requirements. You need to ensure that you know the commands policy or guidelines as it relates to corrective training. There are many tools at your disposal.

Response by CPL Brian Clouser made Jul 17 at 2021 1:52 PM

2021-07-17T13:52:06-04:00

I would begin with this "Sorry NOT! You're on duty 24/7/365 So I will contact you anytime I want"

Response by PO2 Christopher Hurlbut made Jul 20 at 2021 4:12 AM

2021-07-20T04:12:39-04:00

I would remind them that the end of their working hours is their EOS.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2021 4:10 PM

2021-07-20T16:10:24-04:00

For a junior NCO, this would be a good place for counseling. I would let them know that they did need to respond to your communications (military is 24/7) and failure to comply, particularly if they failed to complete a task such as the personnel inspection, would result in disciplinary measures.

During a mission, I had senior NCOs scattered in different hotels with different lanes running at odd hours and days. I had an E-7 who had became a disciplinary issue and had told me that the phone was their personal property and that they didn't need to answer the phone when I called to confirm their location and availability for the days mission (usually around 0630 hrs).
After requiring the NCO to report daily to the base and check in, it seemed they didn't mind getting phone calls.

Response by SSG Karl Fowler made Jul 20 at 2021 5:06 PM

2021-07-20T17:06:47-04:00

that E-4 is goverment property and as long as he is in the military he is supposed to be available 24 -7
he does not have a choise in the matter sorry

Response by PO1 Frank Reiffenstein made Jul 23 at 2021 10:23 AM

2021-07-23T10:23:10-04:00

Ya right. Than I would laugh right in their face. Lol. Suck it up cupcake.

Response by Maj Maria Avellaneda made Jul 23 at 2021 10:07 PM

2021-07-23T22:07:52-04:00

I will text a direct Ordenr to show in full uniform in 20 minutes! I will explain them the military working hours. If he does not show up, I will have the 1st Sgt pick him up and have some person training!either way I will asignhim some additional duty duty the weekend

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Jul 24 at 2021 9:28 PM

2021-07-24T21:28:22-04:00

Rip their head off and shit in their neck.

Response by SSgt Lawrence Bolen made Jul 31 at 2021 8:56 AM

2021-07-31T08:56:03-04:00

Time for (SHIT)
Special
High
Intensity
Training

Response by TSgt Mario Guajardo made Aug 2 at 2021 11:42 PM

2021-08-02T23:42:19-04:00

Behavior modification is in order

Response by PO1 Gregory McKinley made Aug 3 at 2021 5:20 PM

2021-08-03T17:20:58-04:00

Daily norm is the answer to this. They are paid to do this job 24/7. They are to be available 24/7.

Response by PO2 Lawrence Janiec made Aug 4 at 2021 2:12 AM

2021-08-04T02:12:25-04:00

I think I would remind them that when they signed that contract to be in the military, they are in the military 24/7/365.25 and then at quarters the next morning show the reply text to everyone at quarters and just explain that (whoever it was) has decided that working hours will be set in stone and they will not be let off early ever again.

That, or you could just take them to 'Mast for disrespect to a senior petty officer. No comment about whether or not I've had to be in a situation like that before or not....

Response by SGT Ralph McClain made Aug 4 at 2021 4:44 AM

2021-08-04T04:44:57-04:00

You're in the army now and you belong to Uncle Sam. There is no getting off when you're in the army. 24 hours a day 7 days a week 365 days a year you're in the army

Response by SGT Ralph McClain made Aug 4 at 2021 4:49 AM

2021-08-04T04:49:23-04:00

Oh watch that you say specialist you don't get off the old dark thirty. You will be in contact 24 hours a day 7 days a week 365 days a year. The army owns you specialist. But this is a new army no telling whether get by with now. You might hurt their little feelings. Totally different from when I was in the army. You're told to do something you did it or you got a boot in your ass if you didn't.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2021 9:43 AM

2021-08-04T09:43:16-04:00

A good leader should believe in a good work/life balance. I believe that if there was better work/life balance in the military, resiliency training and suicide training wouldn’t be something we had to do once a year. Talk to your subordinate and let them know that you respect their time off but that sometimes you will have to call them after the duty day, and that sometimes whether it’s military or civilian work they will have to work overtime.

Response by CW3 Tamara Peruzzo made Aug 4 at 2021 8:26 PM

2021-08-04T20:26:42-04:00

I had an E3 try that BS with me once.

My response to him..."Welcome to the United States Army. Your duty hours are from 0000-2459 365 days a year except leap year. Than its 366 days. Don't ever talk to ME like that ever again. I have more time in the Army than you do alive. Have I made myself extremely clear?"

His response "Yes Chief."

I then followed that up with a very detailed counseling statement that needed additional pages.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2021 9:32 PM

2021-08-06T21:32:20-04:00

I don’t know whether you should consult a podiatrist or a proctologist to remove the boot from the insubordinate troops ass!

Response by CW5 William Gasaway made Aug 7 at 2021 7:12 AM

2021-08-07T07:12:48-04:00

Do an immediate recall of all my subordinates, effective then. Work them in the shop until 0100, send then home with orders to report at 0530 in inspection uniform (with a working uniform if that is not the inspection uniform. After inspection, I would inform them that for the next week we were going to follow the Army's "working hours" Regulation which if they did not know was 3 thirty minute meal periods and a 4 hour uninterrupted sleep period.
I would then tell them it was to remind them to be thankful for all the free time the Army had previously provided them and could in the future provide them with again as it was brought to my attention that I was not to bother them outside of "working hours!" Since I had not bothered them outside of working hours, I wanted to ensure they knew what "working hours" were

Response by SGT Kyle Bickley made Aug 9 at 2021 8:03 AM

2021-08-09T08:03:09-04:00

You move into the barracks!

Response by SSgt Daniel Batista made Aug 9 at 2021 8:58 AM

2021-08-09T08:58:19-04:00

If the call is not OFFICIAL BUSSINESS, then a superior should exercise prudence and respect the private time of a subordinate.

Response by CPT Jeff Morrison made Aug 9 at 2021 2:22 PM

2021-08-09T14:22:07-04:00

If said E4 wants civilian hours, I’d start facilitating his transition. In the meantime, he’d get to report to the duty NCO every hour on the hour from 1700 to 2200 M-F and every hour on the hour from 0600 to 2200 on Saturday. I’d give him Sunday to reflect on the consequences of his attitude and mouth and to get right with his Maker should he want to continue with the error of his ways.

Response by SrA Chris "Shadow" McGee made Aug 11 at 2021 11:04 AM

2021-08-11T11:04:56-04:00

Last time I checked, your enlistment is a 24/7, 365 job. Somebody needs to enlighten this E4 (how did he make it to E4 without understanding this) on the way the military works. I know we are well into the 21st century and wall to wall counseling is no longer allowed, but this E4 may literally need some sense beaten into him.

Response by PO2 Scott M. made Aug 11 at 2021 2:06 PM

2021-08-11T14:06:17-04:00

Keel-Haul them!!!
Unfortunately, nowadays it would probably be mandatory meetings, counseling, etc., et al!

Response by SGT Leamon Mcnutt made Aug 11 at 2021 2:06 PM

2021-08-11T14:06:26-04:00

I would tell them I don't care that you don't want to deal with me between whatever hours. You signed a contract and you are a soldier 24/7. This is the US Army not Burger King you can't have it your way.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2021 3:27 PM

2021-08-11T15:27:36-04:00

Ha, ha.... i would remind them they signed a contract and can be contacted when ever needed.

I don't recall being paid hourly.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2021 4:25 PM

2021-08-11T16:25:43-04:00

Counsel the soldier on his oath and his duty as a soldier as a whole, and your responsibilities of keeping his soldiers informed as stated in the NCO creed. Then give him the task of informing his peers on daily notes and due outs owed to his unit or team. If this is the attitude of our lower enlisted these days, we need to rethink our training strategy from top to bottom!

Response by PO1 Michael P Russell made Aug 11 at 2021 4:44 PM

2021-08-11T16:44:44-04:00

I would just remind Him or Her that when you signed up, you signed up for 24/7.

Response by Sgt Bob Barr made Aug 11 at 2021 4:44 PM

2021-08-11T16:44:56-04:00

Isn’t the military a 24/7 job?

Response by TSgt Ken Vandevoort made Aug 11 at 2021 5:32 PM

2021-08-11T17:32:38-04:00

Even as reservists, we were subject to recall at any time. On active duty, it was mostly rotating shifts. Once during a base alert, I was tasked to call colonels in the middle of the night. I later thanked the chaplain as he was the only one that didn't swear at me.

Response by CPL Alvin Meeks made Aug 11 at 2021 8:05 PM

2021-08-11T20:05:08-04:00

Opinion of a ole fool, when i served in prehistoric times ( according to my daughter) if I remember correctly you were a military personnel 24/7/365 can you say article 15 anyone, reckon can you still take them behind the barracks, where one of the individuals slipped on a bar of soap?

Response by SGT Edward Greenslit made Aug 11 at 2021 9:57 PM

2021-08-11T21:57:26-04:00

Smoke em and smoke em some more. Today the sensitive folks probably wouldn’t allow it.

Response by COL Ralph Bryan Hanes made Aug 11 at 2021 9:59 PM

2021-08-11T21:59:50-04:00

Does the Navy use counseling statements? It is nice to have a paper trail in case the E4 does not see the light and it also give you the opportunity to trash it and disregard it if he sees the light. I don’t like hanging persistent bad paper on anyone, let alone a junior EM.

Response by SP5 James Elmore made Aug 11 at 2021 10:12 PM

2021-08-11T22:12:00-04:00

Well it is a volunteer army

Response by SP5 James Elmore made Aug 11 at 2021 10:16 PM

2021-08-11T22:16:06-04:00

Well it is a volunteer army!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2021 10:44 PM

2021-08-11T22:44:00-04:00

I had him report to CQ in full uniform every 4 hours till Monday morning he refused to do so so on Monday morning he had to report to First Sergeant at which time he was moved into the barracks and had to report to the CQ at 1800,2000, 2200 and SDO at 1900 2100, and 2300 in full uniform for 7 days

Response by SGM Bill Schroeter made Aug 11 at 2021 10:59 PM

2021-08-11T22:59:06-04:00

The apocalyptic visions in Revelations would seem a nice quite Sunday stroll in the park when compared to the utter Hellscape that E-4 had just entered…anything I say could be held against me in a court of law…LOL!

Response by SPC Terry Gruetzmacher made Aug 12 at 2021 12:29 AM

2021-08-12T00:29:40-04:00

Order him to report for duty immediately. Also instruct him to pickup some BBQ sauce on the way in, ‘cause he’s about to get smoked!

Response by SGT Erica Smith made Aug 12 at 2021 2:50 AM

2021-08-12T02:50:19-04:00

They learn that behavior somewhere. When a senior NCO states they can’t complete a mission on a weekend because its 1630 on Friday and they “can’t force people to come in on their weekend off”. Umm….yes you can. They are still soldiers. Apparently this is how MEDDAC works. So it’s not just subordinates.

Response by SGT Al Dec made Aug 12 at 2021 10:25 AM

2021-08-12T10:25:47-04:00

I would remind them that their duty responsibilities and readiness are 24/7 until they die, their contract is terminated or they retire and that I could assist them in two of the above. Of course the two I could help them with is termination or helping them progress towards retirement but they can speculate on which two.

Response by SSG Jim Campbell made Aug 12 at 2021 11:29 AM

2021-08-12T11:29:12-04:00

I'd say that you're in the Army now, not working at Walmart - which would contact you anytime, anyway.

Response by SPC Merle Jantz made Aug 12 at 2021 12:08 PM

2021-08-12T12:08:24-04:00

I would ask them to take out their military ID card. I'd point to their ETS date and say "THAT'S when working hours are over."

Response by SSgt Angela Fabian made Aug 12 at 2021 2:17 PM

2021-08-12T14:17:06-04:00

Remind them, we’re on 24/7

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2021 2:20 PM

2021-08-12T14:20:01-04:00

A simple fashion show would suffice and would be quite glamorous. 1500 coverall inspection, 1600 dress white inspection, 1700 service uniform inspection, 1800 dress blue inspection, 1900 PTU inspection, and 2000 Cammies.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2021 3:04 PM

2021-08-12T15:04:16-04:00

Back in my day there was no such thing as "outside working hours". My base went 24/7/365 and you could get called back to the flight line at any time.

Response by SP5 Charles Gould made Aug 12 at 2021 5:43 PM

2021-08-12T17:43:22-04:00

This is plain stupid. Your “working hours” in the military start the moment you drop your hand at the Oath of Enlistment, and end when your back wheels cross off base property at the END of your enlistment! ThIs is NOT just a JOB Buttercup. It is a COMMITMENT to your Country. Suck it up Junior!

Response by PO2 Jay Stotler made Aug 12 at 2021 8:06 PM

2021-08-12T20:06:40-04:00

I would explain that the oath they took doesn’t have time limits they belong to Uncle Sam 24-7 365 even on leave you can be recalled for emergency things. No one is above these rules not that I ever heard of.

Response by LCpl Robert Burke made Aug 12 at 2021 9:02 PM

2021-08-12T21:02:17-04:00

His life just turned to s××t !!

Response by SFC Fernando Campos made Aug 12 at 2021 9:14 PM

2021-08-12T21:14:10-04:00

This never happened during my twelve years as a Paratrooper in an Airborne Ranger company. That's what the Army gets when they relax the standards that have stood the test of time. Special Ops are 24x7x365 - None of this nonsense ever took place. Sorry if this "offends" anyone,......

Response by CPT Allen Saum made Aug 12 at 2021 9:44 PM

2021-08-12T21:44:04-04:00

There is something wrong when an individual can make it to E4 and not understand that in the military, your working hours are 24/7/365, with time off granted as a privilege, not a right! There seems to have been a failure of leadership along this subordinate's path to E4 that needs to be corrected through counselling at a minimum, depending upon the subordinate's response!

Response by PO1 Steven Ewing made Aug 13 at 2021 7:25 PM

2021-08-13T19:25:07-04:00

While not exactly the same thing, this reminds me of an event recounted to me by a PO1 I knew about an incident he was involved in when he was the Base's we were both stationed at Petty Officer of the Watch. He and the Command Duty Officer (also the PO1's Division Officer, who at the time was a very young looking LDO Ensign, had been a CPO) went to a security office on one of the base's annexes. The PO2 manning that office apparently thought it was OK to tell an Ensign that he didn't have to do anything a "rookie Ensign" told him to do. The PO1 told me he had to physically restrain the Ensign to keep him from doing some sever damage to the PO2. If I recall correctly that PO2 wasn't a PO2 for very long after the incident.

Response by SMSgt Ed W. made Aug 16 at 2021 6:16 PM

2021-08-16T18:16:50-04:00

It seems to me there is no time you can't be recalled to duty if need be, part of the contract. It would seem to me that a reminder is not a direct order, but the individual needs to be reminded of their responsibility and obligation.

Response by PO1 James White made Aug 21 at 2021 3:55 PM

2021-08-21T15:55:43-04:00

Will you need help getting you boot out of his ass?

Response by PO1 Don Uhrig made Aug 21 at 2021 5:47 PM

2021-08-21T17:47:14-04:00

A refresher course on "working hours" seem to in order. Perhaps the daily task load is to light. At a minimum the response from the subordinate is inappropriate and worthy of EMI in the form of a 2K word essay on respect of authority. Any Chief candidate ought to be creative enough to guide this sailor into a more team player position, or not recommend for retention. There are those who are not suited for military service.

Response by PO1 Todd McMillin made Aug 25 at 2021 7:43 PM

2021-08-25T19:43:46-04:00

There's a time and place for that on both sides. The fact is that if they/re not needed to be "On Call" or "On Duty" during their non-duty days then this is just a petty abuse of power by higher ranked individuals. Why spend time pissing off people when they have down time? Unless you're a miserable asshole who gets off on harassing others for the sick joy of it. The only folks who do this kind of asinine behavior is because they're egomaniacs without any concept of a private life.

If you create a hostile or negative work environment it will eventually come back and bite you square in the ass when you least expect it. I saw a Senior Chief get shafted for calling up people whom weren't even on "Duty Rotation" because of being a bitter divorced jackass stuck on CDO on base and abuse his power. When he was at sea on Liberty port he was jumped and beaten up... Seems that his liberty buddy was too drunk to remember what happened as well; but didn't have anything happen to him. The same thing happened in several other ports of call....

While I was in (1989 to 2009) I never called someone unless it was an "Emergency" or "Above My Paygrade" issue(s) that I couldn't resolve myself as Duty Watch or similar issue. Hell, I only called in a Duty Officer to show up for 10 minutes to sign paperwork authorizing "Emergency Leave" after I took care of everything before hand.

Response by SPC Jeff Stassin made Sep 14 at 2021 12:21 AM

2021-09-14T00:21:40-04:00

Back in the day as long as you got 4hrs of scheduled sleep, that's all that was "officially" you down time, Your superiors could have you at work for 20 hrs a day, though unsafe after a while, but thats ok cause there is your cot. By regulation, and if you lived off post and was given an "early morning" inspection, you better be dying, or at the hospital for not answering your door, in order not to get an article 15. Active duty of course. The Army always could give you "extra duty" for attitude correction.

Response by SSG David Brandgard made Sep 19 at 2021 7:26 PM

2021-09-19T19:26:50-04:00

Ok, first, he would stop what he was doing and report to me within the next 10 minutes...in duty uniform. I would write a quick counseling statement to cover my ass. Letting him know that this was wrong, why it was wrong, and what he will do to ensure that it never happens again.
Then I would take him (if it's not where he reported to) to the cq or staff duty desk.
I would then explain to the nco on duty that this spc would be helping with runner duties this evening with instructions that he is to be allowed to sleep from 2100 - 2200, 0000 - 0200, 0400-0500. He is to surrender his phone during duty. He is to be released at 0530 in order to be ready for production at 0630. This will continue for 7 days.. and that should fix the issue

Response by SFC Linda Clipp made Sep 19 at 2021 7:30 PM

2021-09-19T19:30:07-04:00

First of all...I would've LOVVVEDDD to have a young'un tell me that.

Secondly, I could use the extra time to get some paperwork done while he spent some extra moments makin' my barracks shiiine like a diamond in a goat's arse!

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Sep 20 at 2021 6:12 PM

2021-09-20T18:12:27-04:00

Your never off duty unless your on leave.

Response by MSgt Michael Lane made Sep 20 at 2021 6:31 PM

2021-09-20T18:31:01-04:00

I would make their working hr longer that way I would not disturb them after hr.

Response by MSG Kevin Elliott made Sep 20 at 2021 7:31 PM

2021-09-20T19:31:11-04:00

I'm sorry, but I would be back in my uniform, knocking on Mr. E-4's door as soon as humanly possible. I would have let my chain of command know about this and then we would have an immediate "Come to Jesus" meeting at his door. Depending on his actions/reactions, we would meet again in the morning, or we would go back to the unit area that night and begin remedial training. I never had a problem planning and leading additional training at night and on the weekends.
I was brought up in the Old School Army, and discipline was very important to me and to my soldiers. Part of my job in training and caring for my soldiers was knowing them, knowing where they live, and knowing their families. If this was a family issue, I would work with the soldier so they could let their spouse know that they are on duty 24/7, and what that means.

Response by Sgt Anthony Leverington made Sep 29 at 2021 6:19 AM

2021-09-29T06:19:20-04:00

I just don't get that. Whether on or off duty, unless we were away on leave, every single member of my unit had to be on call and available 24/7 just in case something came up.

Response by SPC David Young made Nov 9 at 2021 9:57 PM

2021-11-09T21:57:01-05:00

I was on the other end of this at one point. When I was a PFC, I had a promotable E4 who was my direct supervisor. He lived in the barracks while I lived off post with my wife and child. There was a time when he had the idea that he could call my home at any time of the day or night but were off duty and harass me about anything and everything. Most of it was stuff that could have (and should have) waited until we were at work the next day. It was about power and he even admitted that he was doing it just because he could. After he pulled the stunt a few times, I took my concern to the E7 that both of us answered to. He was counseled that it wasn't necessary to call my home at 2330 unless there was an alert or an emergency. A couple of hours later, he caught me alone and started to berate me because I got him into trouble. The E7's name was SFC Jones. In this instance, I was in the right but it doesn't always work that way.

Response by SSG Harry Herres made Sep 24 at 2022 11:17 AM

2022-09-24T11:17:15-04:00

Advise them they are on call 24/7 for the rest of their enlistment. Understand it now, because the alternative will change your life syle drastically!