How would you handle an underage consumption incident with a soldier?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Sep 2018 08:32:35 -0400

It’s a broad question - as there is so many factors that would have to be taken into account. Generally, would you be more in favor of it being handled at the section/platoon level with corrective action, or do you favor recommending the soldier for UCMJ?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 30 at 2018 8:59 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Sep 2018 08:59:27 -0400

1st offense needs to be handled in Section. Old enough to be handed a machine gun, should be old enough to have a beer, responsibly.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Sep 30 at 2018 8:59 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Sun, 30 Sep 2018 08:59:29 -0400

Not enough info to formulate useful response.

The "answer" could be anything from a stern look and "Well, that was fun, are you done doing stupid things now" after an extended Hangover PT session to UCMJ and separation

Response by SFC Pete Kain made Sep 30 at 2018 9:01 AM

SFC Pete Kain — Sun, 30 Sep 2018 09:01:11 -0400

In favor of the lowest level possible, age to drink should be 18 anyway.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 30 at 2018 9:03 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Sep 2018 09:03:50 -0400

I couldn’t agree more with the alcohol age needing to be 18 and not 21. Whether in the service or in the civilian world, having that age is driving young adults/young soldiers into the shadows to drink, and usually its binge drinking.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Sep 30 at 2018 9:10 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Sun, 30 Sep 2018 09:10:12 -0400

I would like you to remember this phrase.
"Report or become complicit"
Think of the General Orders of a sentry as a Philosophy for Military Life.
"Report all violations of orders I am instructed to enforce."

That said, if you catch a troop drinking while underage, confiscate their booze and have them dump it down the toilet. Ask them how they acquired it and destroy the ID card they used. Report it to the first SNCO/SrNCO in their chain and inform them that you have dealt with the "first" (to your knowledge) infraction. They can decide whether it necessitates paperwork based on previous work history.

"If" there is an INCIDENT, as in something that "can cause loss of Life, Limb, or Eyesight" that's a paperwork offense, it needs to be IMMEDIATELY reported to the OOD/SDO with the pertinent details.

We're an organization of ADULTS. And part of being adults is following the $%^*&^ Law. No one here doesn't know it's against the law to underage drink. I get that some of us are old enough to remember when we could drink BEER on base at the club at 18 (I could). There might be a few old timers who lived through the 18 year old drinking age circa 1980~. And yes, I agree that if you can die for your country you should be able to have a beer. However, "if" (big if), Leadership becomes aware of it (that includes you as the senior man), the juniors risk the repercussions, whether it be the loss of their booze to the porcelain goddess or to the 1stSgt's desk because they got stupid.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 30 at 2018 10:20 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Sep 2018 10:20:53 -0400

Let's just say that when they're done with my given corrective training, they won't want to touch another drop until they are of legal age....and even then they will probably reconsider.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 30 at 2018 10:36 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Sep 2018 10:36:07 -0400

So long as they are not doing anything stupid, I would leave it to the lowest level. Give them some crap detail for a day or two and call it good. Tell them to be smarter about it.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 30 at 2018 11:00 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Sep 2018 11:00:34 -0400

Counsel and refer to whatever ADAPC is called nowadays. Gets the Soldier assistance without being a career hindrance. UCMJ doesn't do anything for the Soldier. I'm inferring that the use of alcohol became obvious because the Soldier somehow made himself a pop up target.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Sep 30 at 2018 12:10 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Sun, 30 Sep 2018 12:10:49 -0400

1. Question is too vague, were they arrested/ got a DUI, etc. 2. If the qualifiers I mentioned, where part of it, the NCO's hands are tied, most units have SOP's that direct these things up the CoC- all the way to the Post Cdr. 3. If it is a simple case- I always handled it, because they were my troops. Also if I handled, it then it seldom to UCMJ- They were counseled on paper, I turned them over to their NCO's for corrective actions (on their time), and that counseling weighed heavily for some time on any favorable actions.

Response by 1SG Billye Jackson made Sep 30 at 2018 12:34 PM

1SG Billye Jackson — Sun, 30 Sep 2018 12:34:09 -0400

When I went in in 65 if you were Old enough to Die for Your Country ,you were Old enough the Have a Beer on Post. You had to be 17 years and 6 months old to drink in Beer Halls on Post, also it was 3.2 Beer.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Sep 30 at 2018 12:40 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Sun, 30 Sep 2018 12:40:02 -0400

UCMJ for a first offense would have to have been very bad like a DUI. If it is simply underage, or elevated on duty then always handle at the lowest level. Counseling, self referral for coaching in a program etc. Thank you for your service.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 30 at 2018 1:50 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Sep 2018 13:50:41 -0400

Depends on the circumstances of how I found out. Was anyone hurt? Were any dangerous judgement decisions made, that COULD have led to people getting hurt? Is the Soldier, likely to have already learned a hard lesson, or are they still in need? Were they 'malicious' or just 'stupid'?

Response by James Jones made Sep 30 at 2018 4:16 PM

James Jones — Sun, 30 Sep 2018 16:16:29 -0400

It depends on several factors. For me? It depends on how I found out about it and what they did. If it was the "grapevine"? Without proof, I ignore it. If I walked in on it? Outside work, I tell them how stupid they are and deal with it offline. At work? NJP.

I'm extremely hesitant to punish men and women who offered their lives for their country when they're told they're too young to enjoy a beer. Unless they're being dumb about it, I didn't see anything.

Response by CW4 Guy Butler made Sep 30 at 2018 5:39 PM

CW4 Guy Butler — Sun, 30 Sep 2018 17:39:06 -0400

Insufficient information. The break line is probably whether or not it made the MP blotter. That’s pretty much guaranteed UCMJ action.

Response by SSG Brian G. made Sep 30 at 2018 5:41 PM

SSG Brian G. — Sun, 30 Sep 2018 17:41:07 -0400

First it will depend on where the location is. It's a lot different outside CONUS than in CONUS as the laws of the country, state, city, province in question take precedence over the laws of the United States itself. While the US currently says that a person must be 21 to drink, places outside of the US do not hold to that particular judgement.

Second, it's a matter of whether the soldiers drinking had an impact upon his or her job performance, unit readiness, deployability and/or security.

Third, it is also a matter of what Command authority deems in terms of regulations. There are a lot of things that the military does that fly in the face of civilian regulations.

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Sep 30 at 2018 5:58 PM

MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P — Sun, 30 Sep 2018 17:58:04 -0400

To many available variables to give an informed response.

Now, for purely hypothetical situations... where a young member is quietly enjoying a cold refreshing adult beverage in the privacy of his/her own residence with no ensuing complications, my stance would most likely have been a "See no Evil, Speak no Evil, Hear no Evil" approach. Hypothetically speaking of course.... *wink, wink, nudge, nudge*.

Response by SGT David T. made Oct 1 at 2018 3:48 PM

SGT David T. — Mon, 01 Oct 2018 15:48:47 -0400

Context is king. If it was simply underage drinking absent any other issues, then I would simply ignore it. If there was an issue, then the specific circumstances would drive my response. I prefer to handle things at the lowest level, but some things need to be elevated.