How would you react to a soldier who responds negatively to a uniform correction?

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Apr 2016 17:54:35 -0400

How would you respond to a lower enlisted responding negatively to you trying to correct their uniform mistake?

There are plenty of posts I'm seeing on facebook where someone says they tried to make a uniform correction to a soldier, and this soldier talked back to them saying they weren't going to change anything.

How would you handle this situation as an NCO?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2016 6:09 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Apr 2016 18:09:14 -0400

I think the best you could do if find out their unit have a talk with their COC about the attitude. They can only really impose any type of punishment.

Response by SFC Randy Purham made Apr 2 at 2016 6:09 PM

SFC Randy Purham — Sat, 02 Apr 2016 18:09:53 -0400

If the Soldier belonged to me, they would have a long day with uniform drills and counselings. If they belonged to another NCO, I would have a discussion with that NCO about it. If that failed, I would talk to their 1SG about it. The latter happened with a female Soldier on their hair. And she apparently had a history of issues with her mouth and attitude with other NCOs and Soldiers. She was counseled for patterns of misbehavior and threatened with a chapter for it. I saw her in the PX a few days later and she apologized for her behavior. Sometimes it just takes letting them know the consequences for their actions to straighten them out.

Response by SSG James Elmore made Apr 2 at 2016 6:13 PM

SSG James Elmore — Sat, 02 Apr 2016 18:13:54 -0400

Simple –

Hey ask him what company/battery he is in or follow him back to said company/battery and talk his 1sg directly!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2016 6:32 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Apr 2016 18:32:24 -0400

I think you need to actually put the full summary of what this soldier said.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2016 8:14 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Apr 2016 20:14:25 -0400

I've been in the Army for 13 years, and I've never had this issue.

1. In my mind, I would body slam them.

2. In reality, I would ensure that their unit gave them a DA FORM 4856 for failure to follow instruction, disrespect, etc. I would recommend that the Soldier receive an Article 15 for their actions and follow up on the process. If no process was made to correct the Soldier by the "counseling tool" of th DA FORM and Article 15, that higher expects us to use, I would contact the units next higher leader with in the NCO support channel until I reached a level high enough to make it happen. Yeah, I would do that over a disrespectful Soldier. It's not going to happen while I'm still in the Army.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Apr 2 at 2016 8:15 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Sat, 02 Apr 2016 20:15:17 -0400

I can only assume this is a NG or Reserve based issue, or perhaps one of the "Soft" MOS in RA (that's not a belittlement, just a distinction)
As I can not say I have ever seen, nor imagin I would observer such an event in the Army I was part of from 1985 to 2014.. Nor the Army I know of though close second hand observation of many friends still active duty.

As such, it's had to say how I would handle it....Bewilderment at first i assume, then seriously .. assuring the SM understood what they were getting themselves into....And if it was the position the SM wished to hold..Id work at helping them find the exit door ... along the way they would likely find many days of extra duty , less pay available monthly to spend on personal items and a general unhappiness with life and thier remaining time in the service.

Response by SSG James Elmore made Apr 2 at 2016 8:16 PM

SSG James Elmore — Sat, 02 Apr 2016 20:16:45 -0400

I was in this situation. But I had an unfair advantage, I was working as a gate guard checking IDs for entry to the base and I would have people come in all the time wearing their hats like ball caps or wearing do rags in duty uniform so I would just hold her ID until they fix themselves then I'll give them their ID back!

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Apr 2 at 2016 8:50 PM

Capt Tom Brown — Sat, 02 Apr 2016 20:50:28 -0400

You have received several good suggestions and as everyone says, how you would respond 'all depends on the situation and the terrain'. I recall at least one other similar scenario on this same subject a year or so ago and it received many many good suggestions. As CPT Private RallyPoint Member said to give you after the fact advice on this situation would require a lot more details. A good case study for NCO training too. Hope this does not happen to you too many times in your career.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2016 1:50 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 01:50:49 -0400

Let me give you guys an example,

Soldier is wearing something that doesn't belong with the uniform they are wearing, i.e. the coyote boots with ACU's or unauthorized boots.

An Nco notices this and goes to soldier to correct them.

NCO-"Excuse me Specialist. But you do know those boots are not authorized."

SPC-"Ok. I don't really care."

NCO-"Well per AR 670-1 You are not allowed to wear them."

SPC-"I'm going to wear them anyway."

At this point I would correct them on the rank. But it just seems like this soldier really doesn't care. If they were in my unit I would handle it no problem. Tell them what's going to happen if they don't change.

But if you have absolutely no idea what unit this soldier is in and they refuse to tell you, how would you handle it?

Response by 1LT William Clardy made Apr 3 at 2016 7:56 AM

1LT William Clardy — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 07:56:32 -0400

As an NCO and as a commissioned officer, SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member, I have always treated it the same way I would a "negative" reaction to any on-the-spot correction.

I would also note that even problem soldiers tend to cue off the leadership's apparent attitude. Apologetic or hesitant corrections will get more pushback than if you give the order with the tone in your voice making it clear that you have no doubt that your orders will be obeyed.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2016 9:32 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 09:32:19 -0400

The NCO can grow a spine and make there junior pay the price. It will be easier if it is their junior. If it's not find their NCO. If their a POG and correcting a grunt there wrong in the first place. Grunts only listen to grunts, no random NCO is going to get away with correcting them. (Marine Corps experience)

Response by SSG Waldo Yamada made Apr 3 at 2016 1:42 PM

SSG Waldo Yamada — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 13:42:32 -0400

I think there needs to be a citizen policy to correct soldiers. I think now is the time that our citizens of the United States get together and police some of the slack that our military are producing. That way anyone can say look at this dumb fool. Especially since we serve in the military we are representing America for what it stands for. He's in public and you're an NCO can't correct the soldier and you're out of uniform. Make it unprofessional, he's being unprofessional so I'd say retaliate by saying "look at this fool don't know much about policy and He's just an E-4 thinking he can do everything". Get the crowds attention in public and you will definitely see that this soldier is trying to be the next Army poster boy posing for attention.

Response by MSgt John McGowan made Apr 3 at 2016 9:59 PM

MSgt John McGowan — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 21:59:33 -0400

If you let him get away with something like this, you can be sure it will only get worse. I would drop the hammer on him and right now. You will in turn lose respect of the rest, so don't go there.

Response by CW4 Brian Haas made Apr 4 at 2016 12:56 AM

CW4 Brian Haas — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 00:56:35 -0400

Keep calm, fill out counseling...recommend UCMJ action if it doesn't stop.

Response by SPC(P) Alexandra Hinds made Apr 5 at 2016 9:46 AM

SPC(P) Alexandra Hinds — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 09:46:30 -0400

Throat punch. Just break out the throat punches, honestly.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2016 6:13 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 18:13:06 -0400

uniform corrections ar, rc, ng its in the regs, junior sm's that do not after being counselled for the failure should be processed out, and possibly charged with failure to obey a lawfull order, period time to stop the entitightalment, whether in civies or not, you provide your id, tell the sm the problem and report it to their first line leader, as a first line leader and fsg, i can tell you that if another person from another unit contacts me i'm gonna be hip deep in your a##

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2016 12:48 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 12:48:20 -0400

Go on Netflix and review the movie Full Metal Jacket. (For all you kids that think that Forrest Gump is the first military movie ever made) I'm sure the senior NCO in the first half of the movie will give you some inspiration.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2016 8:34 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 16 Apr 2016 20:34:38 -0400

First it is incumbent on the NCO (or whomever is making the correction) to be respectful. No need to talk down to the soldier in a boot-camp manner (except of course at Boot Camp) That would decrease the chances of a rude response. If the soldier still make an insubordinate response, I might bear down a little bit more but not much--maybe say something like, "you are a soldier, you need to wear that uniform properly and proudly; it reflects on all of us". Then if still no improvement, if your subordinate then you have to move up the steps to counseling statement (more for the insubordination than the uniform), etc. If no my subordinate, report it to the soldiers commander !SG, PSG or supervisor.

Response by PO3 Kyle Zendarski made Mar 1 at 2017 3:16 PM

PO3 Kyle Zendarski — Wed, 01 Mar 2017 15:16:56 -0500

Ima hands in pockets kind of guy but at the right place right time it's that simple