Hypothetically, what would you do if someone in your unit refused to salute the flag or stand during the national anthem, to protest racism?

2016-10-18T20:45:27-04:00

Response by ENS Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 18 at 2016 8:46 PM

2016-10-18T20:46:36-04:00

Article 15.

Response by MGySgt Rick Tyrrell made Oct 18 at 2016 8:49 PM

2016-10-18T20:49:42-04:00

They would receive a blanket party later that night if they followed thru with this

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 18 at 2016 9:02 PM

2016-10-18T21:02:09-04:00

I'm with them , u give up the right to free speech, among others when signing thecenlistment contract

Response by MAJ Bryan Zeski made Oct 18 at 2016 9:04 PM

2016-10-18T21:04:49-04:00

Counseling followed by UCMJ if they refuse to comply.

Response by CSM Michael Chavaree made Oct 18 at 2016 9:16 PM

2016-10-18T21:16:11-04:00

Paper trail, possibly UCMJ, and they would be my on my Flag Privilege raising and lowering detail.

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Oct 18 at 2016 9:19 PM

2016-10-18T21:19:37-04:00

Not my issue or my business unless I am in their chain of command. I believe refusing to salute the flag at the appropriate times or attempting to dodge it is an Army reg somewhere but not an expert on that as I always did it.

Did you know that disrespecting the National flag in some countries will land you a jail term? Our flag rules are pretty lax.

Response by PFC Jim Wheeler made Oct 18 at 2016 9:26 PM

2016-10-18T21:26:10-04:00

They don't have that right as AD military personnel.

Civilians? Perfectly fine, I even encourage it. Whether or not I agree is irrelevant, I fully support citizens using their rights to protest whatever they want.

Soldiers don't have that right.

Response by LCpl Cody Collins made Oct 18 at 2016 9:32 PM

2016-10-18T21:32:15-04:00

If that took place on base in Uniform, I would have that person confined to Barracks until further notice. If it happened on their own time in the public Arena out of uniform, there is nothing I can do.

Response by PFC Pamala (Hall) Foster made Oct 18 at 2016 9:33 PM

2016-10-18T21:33:22-04:00

Take them into their command and watch their face as i launch UCMJ at them with the assist of an officer since I am a veteran. Refuse to stand? Care for a BCD????

Response by Maj John Bell made Oct 18 at 2016 9:35 PM

2016-10-18T21:35:24-04:00

If it was in the civilian world and there was no way for the general public to know this was a Soldier, Sailor, Marine, or Airman. I'd refer it to the SNCO at my level and move on.

If it did not meet the circumstances I set out above; Article 92 of the UCMJ. Since it was an intentional act to flout military authority; if said Soldier, Sailor, accepted the article 15 hearing, I'd probably give 7 days restriction, 7 days forfeiture of base pay, and 7 days of extra military instruction.

If said Soldier, Sailor, Marine or Airman refused the article 15 hearing, I'd give them one business hour to seek advice from legal counsel. At the end of that hour and NOT one second more, I'd move immediately to convene a special court martial, with no possibility of "backing the train up". Since all this fuss was meant to bring attention to an issue I would increase that "attention". If I were on the court martial board, I'd recommend the maximum punishment: forfeiture of two-thirds base pay per month for one year, one year confinement (or a lesser amount if the offenses have a lower maximum), and a bad-conduct discharge.

Later edit; Upon advice of competent legal counsel I have deleted my earlier edit. Thanks Capt Gregory Prickett

Response by SGM Billy Herrington made Oct 18 at 2016 9:43 PM

2016-10-18T21:43:44-04:00

Fist fuck their face.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 18 at 2016 10:07 PM

2016-10-18T22:07:01-04:00

pretty easy counselling and discharch packett

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 18 at 2016 10:27 PM

2016-10-18T22:27:22-04:00

Follow the proper steps- counseling if within my authority to do so and if not, ensure the correct person is notified to do such.

Response by MSgt John McGowan made Oct 18 at 2016 11:29 PM

2016-10-18T23:29:33-04:00

PFC. That person would remember me for years to come.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 18 at 2016 11:52 PM

2016-10-18T23:52:46-04:00

In uniform and/or on duty, counseling and and possible UCMJ.

Off duty, out-of-uniform, I would respect his or her first amendment rights.

Response by SSG Stephan Pendarvis made Oct 19 at 2016 1:01 AM

2016-10-19T01:01:01-04:00

remind them that they gave up the right to be a civilian when they joined...

Response by PO1 Kenneth Cardwell made Oct 19 at 2016 1:10 AM

2016-10-19T01:10:58-04:00

Pull them to the side and remind them that the Military is not the same as our regular society and we owe it to our leaders to obey the rules or take a discharge and go home!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 19 at 2016 2:27 AM

2016-10-19T02:27:05-04:00

There is no hypothetical. SM would be counseled and recommended for UCMJ. Period!! As nco's we do not choose which regulation to enforce.

According to Army Regulation AR 600-20, Army Command Policy, paragraph 4-3b. The actions of military personnel will reflect respect to both the national anthem and national colors. The courtesies listed in AR 600-25 should be rendered the national colors and national anthem at public events whether the Soldier is off or on duty, whether he or she is in or out of uniform. Intentional disrespect to the national colors or national anthem is conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline and discredits the military Service.

Pretty cut and dry if you ask me. I'm quite sure that our other branches have similar regulations as well. There can be no other interpretation of that. And guess what if you don't like it find another job. I'm so tired of these people that think they can ignore regulation.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 19 at 2016 2:50 AM

2016-10-19T02:50:22-04:00

They don't get to refuse. When you sign on the line you agree to limit your rights, not to mention it is a general order. I suggest you light that mf up after the anthem ends.

Response by SFC George Smith made Oct 19 at 2016 5:00 AM

2016-10-19T05:00:57-04:00

I don't Know... I my Day there was little or no racism ... In Fact racism was almost Dead Until BHO Came to power and started Slapping everyone in the face with it...

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Oct 19 at 2016 6:14 AM

2016-10-19T06:14:46-04:00

First, I never saw or encountered anything this ridiculous. If someone refused to stand for morning colors, the national anthem etc. there would have beet two courses of action.

1. Legal: Charges would have been drawn for the offender for the most appropriate offense and fully punished so we could remove the undesirable from the ranks.

2. NCO's would have dealt with the idiot in unofficial manners leaning on extra military instruction and other techniques designed to create alignment for the greater good, if you catch my drift.

Response by SSG Trust Palmer made Oct 19 at 2016 6:21 AM

2016-10-19T06:21:28-04:00

What about those that don't stop for the Reveille? TONS of people continue to drive and walk inside the commissary.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Oct 19 at 2016 7:24 AM

2016-10-19T07:24:03-04:00

Counseling (written but informal) and corrective training. If that doesn't work, escalate above for more formal remedy.

During counseling they would informed that saluting the flag is not an option, it is a military regulation, and breaking a regulation has specific penalties. Although all citizens have the Protected Right to Protest, that Protection is limited while in uniform (UCMJ) therefore the voluntary agreement they entered into (Enlistment within the Service) prevents them from exercising their Right to Protest in this specific manner while in uniform.

Corrective training will be two weeks of being present at morning and evening colors (I will be there with them) to render honors to the National Ensign. Failure to comply would be escalated to the Company 1stSgt for further discussion (I will backbrief his PSG though on the issue).

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Oct 19 at 2016 8:27 AM

2016-10-19T08:27:01-04:00

As long as they salute and stand in uniform. What they do outside of work is none of my business unless if adversely affects the mission.

Response by SGT(P) Gloria Francis made Oct 19 at 2016 8:38 AM

2016-10-19T08:38:10-04:00

It's amazing how many would publicly disrespect their leader, President Obama, but want to fight someone for not saluting the flag....OXYMORON!!! For someone to say rasicism wasn't around until he got into office just shows the world your true color, SFC George Smith.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 19 at 2016 9:18 AM

2016-10-19T09:18:20-04:00

I would immediately issue a lawful order to comply. If they fail to follow the lawful order, I would wait until the last note had played and then reminded them of their miranda rights.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 19 at 2016 9:42 AM

2016-10-19T09:42:53-04:00

If they did this in uniform and on Army time, I Would counsel them for violating the regulations of the US Army. If this was repeated, then I would recommend UCMJ.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Oct 19 at 2016 10:07 AM

2016-10-19T10:07:21-04:00

I would offer an article 15 based on charges preferred through Articles 134 General Article and Article 92, failure to obey an order or Regulation. By doing this, you are in direct violation of Air Force Instructions. I am sure each service has their own regulations governing this process. At the bottom is a link to the UCMJ site for any reference.

Air Force Instruction 1-1, Air Force Standards states in para 1.6.2. and following, "Respect for the Flag. The Flag of the United States is one of the most enduring and sacred symbols of our country. It represents the principles and ideals you have pledged to defend and for which many have made the ultimate sacrifice. Airmen shall treat it with the same respect due to the highest military and public officials. Airmen will never burn (except for reverent disposition of an unserviceable Flag), deface, mutilate, or treat with contempt or any other form of disrespect. (18 U.S.C. § 700; AFI 34-1201).
1.6.2.1. When in uniform, you salute the Flag as it passes in front of you in a procession or parade. Salute six paces before the Flag passes before you, and hold your salute until the Flag has passed six paces beyond your position.
1.6.2.2. National Anthem. You must show respect for the National Anthem and Flag both indoors and outdoors, in uniform and in civilian clothing. (36 U.S.C. § 301).
1.6.2.2.1. Indoor Ceremonies. When in uniform, face the Flag (if visible) or music. Stand at attention at the first note and maintain that position until the last note without rendering a salute. If in civilian clothing, stand at attention and place your right hand over your heart.
1.6.2.2.2. Outdoor Ceremonies. When in uniform, face the Flag (if visible) or music. Stand at attention and salute at the first note of the National Anthem and hold until completion of the last note. If in civilian clothing you should either stand at attention and place your right hand over your heart or render a salute. Civilian hats will be removed.
1.6.2.3. During the playing of the national anthems of friendly nations, render the same customs and courtesies as those given during the playing of the United States National Anthem.
1.6.2.4. Reveille and Retreat. Flags on stationary flag staffs are only saluted during reveille, retreat, or special ceremonies. In these cases, when outside and in uniform, consistent with safety and mission requirements, stop what you are doing, face the direction of the Flag (if visible) or the music. Stand at parade rest during the sounding of retreat (which precedes the lowering of the Flag), then come to attention and salute during the playing of the National Anthem or “To the Color.” If you are driving a vehicle, stop if consistent with safety and mission requirements. You and your passengers should sit quietly until the music ends."

http://www.ucmj.us/

UCMJ – United States Code of Military Justice

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Oct 19 at 2016 11:38 AM

2016-10-19T11:38:57-04:00

This is where the military separates from the civilian world. First off, we have rules, standards and policies that outline how we are required to render the proper respect. Failure to do so is a failure to obey an order. Second, we know and understand what it means to represent something larger than oneself. While some people know they represent a group, organization, company or team, I do not think they fully understand what that means. Their actions reflect on whatever entity they represent. Lastly, I think for any Service Member or Veteran who had to witness a battle buddy leave the battlefield under the flag, saluting the flag and standing during the National Anthem takes on a whole new meaning. Not to say it doesn't for everyone that serves, because I think it applies to all of us, but for those of us that knew someone that paid the highest of prices, we are honored to stand and represent them. That is why I still stand and salute during the National Anthem or when the Colors pass me by. It's not to bring attention to myself but more importantly to bring honor to them.

Response by SFC Joseph Weber made Oct 19 at 2016 12:53 PM

2016-10-19T12:53:21-04:00

Flip the fuck out.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 19 at 2016 1:32 PM

2016-10-19T13:32:51-04:00

I would probably walk away to vent, then collect myself. After I would pull the individual aside with a bare minimum a Memo for Record. If that didn't fix the problem I would ask my section chief what he/she would like to do.

Response by SFC James Asbill made Oct 19 at 2016 3:18 PM

2016-10-19T15:18:45-04:00

Counseling and remedial training in Military Customs & Courtesty .. then charge for Art 15 if that does not correct the beahvior

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 19 at 2016 7:03 PM

2016-10-19T19:03:31-04:00

At my level I would let my 1SG know I have a soldier who needs to be on flag detail and an essay on the history of the flag, the flag code, and regulations regarding the flag.. Written counseling on what happened and the corrective training (flag detail/essay). If it happens again then I would recommend for UCMJ.

Response by SSgt David Tedrow made Oct 20 at 2016 3:49 AM

2016-10-20T03:49:03-04:00

I would remind them of there oath of service that they took when joining the military.

Response by SN Greg Wright made Oct 20 at 2016 1:14 PM

2016-10-20T13:14:19-04:00

You ask this like you think it's their right. It patently is NOT their right. They are not civilians. They are free admire Kaepernick all they like. They are NOT free to emulate him.

Response by SGT Charles Tittl made Oct 20 at 2016 7:25 PM

2016-10-20T19:25:16-04:00

Socks and Locks after lights out!

Response by SGT Mathew Husen made Oct 20 at 2016 9:33 PM

2016-10-20T21:33:10-04:00

There probably be alot of UCMJ, soldiers like that lack any kind of motivation, common sense and intelligence in the first place and racism is just another sorry excuse for them to get out of doing anything. As an NCO it is one of my duties to do what I can to set these soldiers straight and if i cannot, do what i can to removed them from the service.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2016 12:55 PM

2016-10-21T12:55:18-04:00

i was raised in public school pledging allegiance to our country's flag. I still hold it in highest esteem. My gripe is how another sailor decided to go around backstabbing (figuratively) other enlistees resulting in their dismissal from the service.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2016 12:58 PM

2016-10-21T12:58:19-04:00

Send 'em home early from drill w/o pay; get 'em to reshape their attitude to go with the flow.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2016 6:57 PM

2016-10-21T18:57:03-04:00

That's an easy fix. Tell the Company Gunny to go grab the idiot before someone else knock him or her on their six. Then, have Commaning Officers Hours on this idiot.
Get rid of the 10% people who are there to simply cause trouble to the unit as a whole.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Oct 21 at 2016 7:47 PM

2016-10-21T19:47:58-04:00

The guys in the barracks would deal with this, lol

Response by Col Dona Marie Iversen made Oct 21 at 2016 9:18 PM

2016-10-21T21:18:54-04:00

It's not an option. "Ain't gonna happen on my watch". If they choose to not comply they can wear another uniform or civilian attire.

Response by CPL Eric Escasio made Oct 21 at 2016 9:35 PM

2016-10-21T21:35:24-04:00

I would remind him or her that we are not in the position to be doing this because our job is protect and respect and we have to set as an example. Or he or she can get in trouble......

Response by MSgt Roger Settlemyer made Oct 22 at 2016 1:47 AM

2016-10-22T01:47:20-04:00

Grab Them by the hand, escort then to a different location and show them the errors of their ways. USMC Style !

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2016 7:06 AM

2016-10-22T07:06:10-04:00

Hmm...I would resist the urge to rip them a new one, and rather proceed to remind them what the UCMJ states regarding respect for our nation's flag and ceremonies and those that have died selflessly in defense of the very freedoms the individual feels he/she is free to disrespect and politely persuade them to get their head out of their posterior regions and grow the eff up.

Response by SCPO Jason McLaughlin made Oct 24 at 2016 9:16 AM

2016-10-24T09:16:55-04:00

You start too many threads!

Response by Sgt Sal Hirto made Oct 26 at 2016 7:51 AM

2016-10-26T07:51:36-04:00

i would provide a well structured beating

Response by PO3 Diane Policandriotes Goldsmith made Oct 28 at 2016 11:57 PM

2016-10-28T23:57:47-04:00

After The National Anthem, I have authority to write him/her up, no matter what race or reason. The Solider was showing disrespect for Flag and Country. I don't remember writing this 3 mos. ago and I just got this today 1-12-17

Response by MSgt Walter Brooks made Oct 30 at 2016 9:44 PM

2016-10-30T21:44:55-04:00

There would NOT be a paper trail. Do it & find out.

Response by MSgt Walter Brooks made Oct 30 at 2016 9:49 PM

2016-10-30T21:49:41-04:00

There would NOT be a paper trail.

Response by LCpl Todd Houston made Nov 1 at 2016 5:18 AM

2016-11-01T05:18:25-04:00

I would have marched down and phoned the MP's as I would have to turn myself in for assult. Then I would file a report for missing gear in order to get a new right boot.

Response by PO2 Sybil "TT" I. made Nov 3 at 2016 2:27 AM

2016-11-03T02:27:13-04:00

I assume people do it out of ignorance. So, I'd nicely give them the history of the flag, it's symbolism, tell them a few stories about military funerals where I presented the flag to widows, ect ect... So, that they can make a more informed decision.

Response by SFC Freddie Porter made Dec 27 at 2016 6:07 PM

2016-12-27T18:07:28-05:00

We live in a day and age where people do not understand that without the Constitution of the United States there is no such thing as equal rights, a concept of social justice or a concept of racism being wrong. Nor do people understand that the rights we have are represented by our National Colors and our National Anthem.

If there is a soldier that refuses to stand and salute the National Colors, that soldier would go through a course of intensive education of a variety of methods in what the National Colors and Anthem in fact represent and why it is important and necessary, at the least, that soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen pay respect to those Colors and that Anthem. If that education process doesn't pay off, the UCMJ should and would be invoked regarding the soldier in question.

Understanding why we do what we do is a necessary understanding. Unfortunately todays education system no longer teaches what the United States in fact stands for and represents. But for the United States Constitution there would be no equal rights. Remember clearly that before the Constitution, no one cared about equal rights. The consequences of a believe in equal rights was very likely your death or imprisonment with the benefit of a hearing of any kind. That needs to be taught to a soldier that refuses to stand and salute the National Colors and National Anthem If that soldier refuses the education process, the soldier needs to be gone with a General Discharge. We as military members stand for equal rights for all as defined by the Constitution. No other way about it.

Response by SSgt Michael Cox made Dec 30 at 2016 4:20 PM

2016-12-30T16:20:51-05:00

Written counseling on the first offense I wouldn't even give them a verbal warning. If they did it again I would send them to see the First Sgt. and Commander.

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Dec 30 at 2016 6:33 PM

2016-12-30T18:33:46-05:00

Sp4 Byron Skinner. Not specified if the individual was in uniform or not. If he or she was in uniform the flag salute and the protocol are all layer out in regulations. The is no protocol in regard to the "Star Spangled Banner", it is the unofficial National Anthem. Sit or stand as you like. For those who worry about such things the Standing For the National Anthem and the Flag Ceremony at NFL games didn't start until November 1963 the Sunday after the JFK assassination. Before that the referee just started the game. I remember, I went to NFL games before the JFK assassination. In regard to protest, just forget about it. Anybody who thinks not saluting the flag will have a positive effect on there cause is very much mistaking.

Response by GySgt Melissa Gravila made Dec 30 at 2016 8:25 PM

2016-12-30T20:25:41-05:00

I would realistically make sure they didn't (or couldnt) *wink* stand for their paycheck either! Yo bucket head, you are in the military! You WILL show respect and you WILL render the proper salute or I WILL make sure to be at the UCMJ hearing! Semper Fi

Response by SSG Joseph Thomas made Dec 31 at 2016 10:11 AM

2016-12-31T10:11:51-05:00

To keep simple, I would kick there "ASS".

Response by PFC John Villarreal made Dec 31 at 2016 11:02 AM

2016-12-31T11:02:04-05:00

Give them a "blanket party".....Hypothetically...

Response by PO3 John Wagner made Dec 31 at 2016 11:06 PM

2016-12-31T23:06:16-05:00

I would let the individual understand that they could report to the MPs themselves or be arrested

Response by SFC Joseph Dunphy made Jan 10 at 2017 8:57 AM

2017-01-10T08:57:09-05:00

Article 15 to enforce the rules, followed by a period of community service, such as being put on details to prepare veterans cemeteries for national holidays, military wakes where military honors were rendered, a couple of shifts as a volunteer at a VA hospital, visit to family support groups, such as widows and orphans, or similar activities. At the end of the Article 15 discipline phase, the soldier is the one who has the choice over the fate of their career. Voluntary flag salute, or the Article 15 doesn't go into the drawer, but stays on their record, especially for future promotion boards. If they are in an MOS that requires a security clearance, it's over for them, IMO. IMO, those that are doing the flag protests do not realize the cost that has been paid to protect their freedom. The positive side of the flag protests is that it identifies the weak link in the chain before it becomes a more serious problem for the unit. If they continue to refuse to salute, I would personally escort their article 15 papers to the proper office, and give them the chance to hand in transfer papers at the same time.

Response by Cpl James Wilson made Jan 10 at 2017 9:18 AM

2017-01-10T09:18:22-05:00

The simple answer "Code Red". Would have no problem doing it a civilian either. I am very sick and tired of the disrespect that people of this country are showing to those that have died giving them the right to think it is ok to protest.

Response by MSgt Roger Hoyle made Jan 10 at 2017 3:19 PM

2017-01-10T15:19:41-05:00

We have to respect freedom of speech,. I would ask the soldier why he is in the US Military after taking the oath. This soldier needs to be educated in what the American flag represents and American history would be a good idea.

Response by 1LT Vance Titus made Jan 11 at 2017 3:33 PM

2017-01-11T15:33:25-05:00

Strongly suggest that they look for an alternative line of work. Offer to help them secure their "freedom" from their current employer.

Response by PO3 John Wagner made Jan 12 at 2017 5:25 PM

2017-01-12T17:25:59-05:00

Kick 'em in the nuts and take my chances with NJP . "combat training" training might be a viable defense.

Response by SSG Brian MacBain made Jan 18 at 2017 10:00 AM

2017-01-18T10:00:22-05:00

Even though this had never happened when I was active, but if I had seen one my soldiers or any soldiers to do that, then I teach them the "old school" ways of life in the military. Also, like someone had stated, I would make that soldier to be on the "flag" detail for a month. UCMJ action would be followed through as well. Too many great Americans had died for the flag, I will not let one punk disrespect them. God willing if I see anyone (I do not care for the age or what sex you are) standing on the flag, I will kick their butts.

Response by SSG Wally Lawver made Jan 18 at 2017 10:03 AM

2017-01-18T10:03:54-05:00

this is really a possibility, shameful legacy of the last 8 divisive years that this is even considered a possibility..............................

Response by SSgt Walter Lonsdale made Jan 18 at 2017 10:45 AM

2017-01-18T10:45:02-05:00

Why would someone join the military that hates our country?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2017 2:21 PM

2017-01-18T14:21:52-05:00

Hypothetically -(FM 101-22) I would smoke the Dog piss out of him......THEN dO iT AGAIN.......Have him/her pack a ruck because thursday they will be going on a march, Relive them of all duties except lawn care and Janitorial Maintenance, Ask The CSM if he has any details that need to be done letting know I have a Volunteer for him

Response by MGySgt Gerry Sweeten made Jan 18 at 2017 7:56 PM

2017-01-18T19:56:35-05:00

Hypothetically, that soldier, sailor, marine, air force would face an article 15 hearing, be demoted and fined. That's just a start.

Response by Cpl Zach Wellborn made Jan 19 at 2017 1:49 AM

2017-01-19T01:49:43-05:00

Well after they get back up after I level them, I'll remind them of their oath. The laws of the military supersede their self righteous opinions. You volunteered to be in the military, with that comes an unwritten respect for the flag, the country and the brothers by your side.

Response by CW4 Angel C. made Jan 19 at 2017 4:30 AM

2017-01-19T04:30:38-05:00

On the spot correction, Direct order, Discipline, corrective training, non-judicial punishment, chapter. It's a violation of military customs and traditions, salutes, honors, etc etc...

Response by GySgt Charles O'Connell made Jan 19 at 2017 5:31 AM

2017-01-19T05:31:29-05:00

In reality I would take the offender to the side and explain in terms that would shake him or her to the very core of their undiciplined bodies that such behaviour was unacceptable. Unacceptable to the point that any repetition of said behavior would, following their release from medical, see them brought up on charges.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2017 7:00 PM

2017-01-19T19:00:45-05:00

Discipline them to the fullest extent allowed

Response by PFC Henry Harvey made Jan 24 at 2017 8:58 AM

2017-01-24T08:58:35-05:00

Give them a dishonorable discharge saying they do not have the privilege to serve with so little respect.

Response by FN Mike McCormack made Jan 24 at 2017 9:35 AM

2017-01-24T09:35:30-05:00

The same thing I would have done from the first day I learned the National Anthem...remind them of what it stands for; if that doesnt work...then an ass-beating is forthcoming.

Response by SSG Carl Gamel made Jan 24 at 2017 9:47 AM

2017-01-24T09:47:59-05:00

UCMJ, then process for elimination from service

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2017 10:32 AM

2017-01-24T10:32:27-05:00

Curb stomp the hell out of him...

Response by SGT Dwane Ott made Jan 24 at 2017 11:12 AM

2017-01-24T11:12:59-05:00

Stand before the man then Discarage

Response by SSG Steven Mangus made Jan 24 at 2017 12:10 PM

2017-01-24T12:10:37-05:00

Wall to wall counseling and then the appropriate administrative actions followed by more wall to wall counseling..

Response by SPC Derrick Brown made Jan 24 at 2017 2:04 PM

2017-01-24T14:04:27-05:00

Wall to wall counseling

Response by SGT Linda Moss made Jan 24 at 2017 7:27 PM

2017-01-24T19:27:44-05:00

Since this is the new gentler military taking him / her out back for remedial hand to hand combat training is frowned upon they would be up on charges so fast they would have their head would in the commander's officer before their ass could catch up..

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2017 1:58 AM

2017-01-25T01:58:38-05:00

I would kick the shit out of him and remind them they are on welfare and therefore aren't slaves to anyone.

Response by Cpl Ian Schuelke made Jan 25 at 2017 1:28 PM

2017-01-25T13:28:48-05:00

Check their pulse by grabbing both carotids with one hand until they quit wiggling.

Response by Cpl Ian Schuelke made Jan 25 at 2017 1:30 PM

2017-01-25T13:30:44-05:00

Check their carotid pulse with one hand until they quit wiggling. You signed the line and raised your right hand, for the line.

Response by PFC Aaron Cox made Jan 25 at 2017 10:58 PM

2017-01-25T22:58:34-05:00

That whipping would be a thing of Legend. The Red headed step child would swear he was the favorite son.

Response by SGT Drew Clark made Jan 27 at 2017 12:24 AM

2017-01-27T00:24:25-05:00

Make the make Ft. Bragg move!

Response by MAJ Judd Clemens made Feb 1 at 2017 3:22 PM

2017-02-01T15:22:05-05:00

On the one occasion that that happened during my 25 year career, a private gave the finger to the flag during retreat and ran into the mess hall. A CWO3 saw him and brought him to my office (I was XO of an aviation company). The chief was really upset, and as he explained what he saw, he got tears in his eyes and made a fist and wanted to smack him. I didn't want the chief getting into any trouble over this POS so I asked him to leave, which, to my great relief, he did. Conferring with the CO, since this guy had no stripes to take, I suggested the max fine he could impose (100.00), and to let me have him for three weeks. So, for the next 21 days, rain or shine, at 1700 he was standing outside of my office window, standing retreat.

Response by Pvt Joseph Michael Lima made Feb 2 at 2017 5:45 PM

2017-02-02T17:45:12-05:00

Our nation's flag was divinely inspired according to General Washington. He had a vision of an Angel descending from Heaven with our RED WHITE AND BLUE in his left hand and a sword in his right hand. The flag was up flying over his head, while his sword was down at the ready position.

If we will honor the sacred colors of this nation, and all they represent, we will always be protected by God!

We have protocols that govern our conduct concerning the flag even laws under the UCMJ this removes all doubt that we are expected to honor and respect our Standard to the World. Remind you fellow warrior of this.

Racism, is only shown by those who are racist, the rest of us who aren't don't think about racism, until we see it. His not honoring his own colors because of racism is an act of racism. We are free men and women with the free will to govern our own actions. Speaking out directly against racism is not racism, however, to dishonor the flag in the name of racism is an act of disrespect to the wrong individuals.

SEMPER FI
JML

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2017 2:34 PM

2017-02-08T14:34:25-05:00

Create the paperwork trail as soon as I finished rendering proper customs and courtesies. I would not create a scene; if the populace were to witness it, I think it would only make a bad situation worse.

Response by CPL Moises Alonso made Feb 14 at 2017 12:11 PM

2017-02-14T12:11:25-05:00

Get a few of my Battle buddies and take him behind the barracks for a talking too

Response by SPC Chris Williams made Feb 14 at 2017 8:25 PM

2017-02-14T20:25:38-05:00

Time for a blanket party. And if you dislike the flag that much you are in the wrong job because your job is defending the flag.

Response by SGT Jeremy Boyd made Feb 15 at 2017 6:48 AM

2017-02-15T06:48:19-05:00

If this person were in uniform, then I would pull him/her off to the side to do a spot correction and then invite him/her to my office for a formal counseling. If the incident happened at an unofficial event in which the soldier was neither in uniform, nor representing the government, I would say and do nothing because such conduct doesn't violate the regs.

Response by MSG Melvin Miller made Feb 16 at 2017 8:20 AM

2017-02-16T08:20:55-05:00

This action is covered under AR 600-20 and AR 600-25 as it relates to appropriate behavior when the National Anthem is being played or when the Colors are displayed. Violation of either is punishable under the UCMJ or some of the innovative ways some NCOs might come up with. Discipline is a function of command and must be preserved at all times. Though the SCOTUS has said that desecration of the colors is allowed as freedom of speech, the rules are markedly different when one puts on the uniform.

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made Feb 18 at 2017 3:42 PM

2017-02-18T15:42:38-05:00

Direct order, court martial

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2017 3:57 PM

2017-02-28T15:57:06-05:00

PFC,
It would be in the best interest of every service member to not find out what would happen. The US Flag does not represent racism, and any service member that is observed disrespecting our flag will be dealt with.

Response by LT Richard Mondak made Mar 7 at 2017 8:38 AM

2017-03-07T08:38:40-05:00

Whisper with authority, "You will stand and salute!" If non-compliant, after the completion of the event, I would have some other unit members, along with myself, escort the service member to a secure area, advise them of their rights and file formal charges. Now, given the righteous indignation towards this "act", what I would want to do would not be appropriate.

Response by LCpl Dwight Wycherley made Apr 20 at 2017 6:23 PM

2017-04-20T18:23:52-04:00

Inform them of the violation of the General Order, respectfully understanding rank (if senior to me). Continuation would merrit a charge sheet under UCMJ.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2017 1:26 PM

2017-04-22T13:26:32-04:00

Put them on flag detail until their salute stuck to the side of their head permanently!

Response by LCpl Crystal Scott made May 7 at 2017 10:16 PM

2017-05-07T22:16:02-04:00

You find out whether they understand that the American flag is a symbol of all of the people who would stand for them the way it is believed they would stand for them. It may be that in the undercurrents there is identified a possible breeding program, but what is truth is that the flag is a symbol of all of the people, any race or creed, that stand for the right to believe and be the way they are - understanding that only applies if they are not impeding upon another's.

Response by CPO Michael Callegri made Jul 12 at 2017 3:39 PM

2017-07-12T15:39:45-04:00

As a veteran of color, who completed 24 years in the Navy, I would have a serious problem with it. First off, I would remind the person that swore to support and defend the constitution of the United States. Racism in some form or another has been around for years and I think the military does a good job of trying to fight that, so he has picked the wrong place to be to want to protest. Man up and do what you swore to do.

Response by SFC Freddie Porter made Jul 20 at 2017 4:59 PM

2017-07-20T16:59:56-04:00

I may have made a comment here before but this is a subject evokes a lot of emotion. I want to be a precessional and handle this type conduct in the new professional, correct way but my soul tells me I would snatch this crumb bum by the neck, drag his ass out of formation and show him the only color in the Army is Green (with red staining it frequently by people of all races, religions and nationalities). I'm not interested in what happens in the "world". Those clowns don't have to depend on the individual next to him/her for their life. MilitRy do, have a always will need to set aside thos bogus feelings and learn to trust. That is what the national colors mean to me.

Oh well

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Jul 20 at 2017 5:09 PM

2017-07-20T17:09:41-04:00

a servicemember does not have the right to not stand or salute, when they enlist or accept a commission they are surrendering certain civil liberties in order to have good order and discipline- read the fine print on your contracts, it is there.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jul 20 at 2017 9:31 PM

2017-07-20T21:31:50-04:00

Flag Detail always needs bodies...

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Jul 21 at 2017 11:45 AM

2017-07-21T11:45:42-04:00

True enough and I doubt it will ever go away completely but a national leader shouldn't do things that increase the divide on what is already a large problem. There are some people who are ignorant enough they will always be racist and the rest of us can at least make it clear We don't tolerate their attitude. People such as that will still not change their mind no matter what We do but the rest of us that make up the majority of decent people should band together and make sure they have very little impact on the society We all must live in together.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2017 1:41 PM

2017-07-21T13:41:45-04:00

I would have to consult my trusty FM 22-102.
http://www.ncoer.com/wall.htm

WALL-TO-WALL COUNSELING FM 22-102

You will find many helpful ideas about how to prepare and write NCOERs. We have gathered the links and put them on one webpage.

Response by MSgt Roger Settlemyer made Jul 22 at 2017 4:40 PM

2017-07-22T16:40:53-04:00

That a Hard Question on the face of it I would lash out and make him or her regret their decision. The honoring of our flag is sacred, all those Military people who gave their life for this country. If they would not respect all those who came before, what happenede to Duty, Honor and Country. I would process them out of my unit and the Military Service they belong to.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2017 4:14 PM

2017-08-04T16:14:57-04:00

100% in the military thankfully there is no option to play politics here. You will salute and render the appropriate honors or you will be counseled and placed on report. Unfortunately I know for a fact in the US Navy after having dealt with far too many E-7/9 that are liberal to the point of making this acceptable or wanting to understand this type of behavior they would do everything to condone this type of behavior. I also know Commanding Officers who are sympathetic to this bull shit as well.
This is why we had American Sailors taken hostage by Iranian Naval forces while they were still armed and could have been pulled to sea by local Coast Guard or Naval forces under Obama. I hope the newest SecNav does his best to weed out and fire every one of them for cause.

Response by PO1 Donald Hammond made Aug 4 at 2017 5:18 PM

2017-08-04T17:18:25-04:00

This goes along with the people who make a run for a building when they know colors are about to happen.

Response by CPO Glenn Moss made Aug 5 at 2017 5:17 AM

2017-08-05T05:17:51-04:00

What does rendering honors to the flag have to do with racism?

That's one of the stupidest, most asinine excuses I've ever heard. And make no mistake...it IS an excuse.

The flag is a symbol, representative of our nation and our Constitution. The Constitution famously opens as follows (the all caps for the opening being mine for emphasis):

"WE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

As servicemembers, Active Duty or otherwise, we swore to support and defend the Constitution of the United States. That means we support and defend all the ideals encapsulated by that document. And it's pretty damn clear to me that "WE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES" is all-inclusive. So we support those ideals for ALL PEOPLE, regardless.

Showing disrespect to the flag isn't protesting racism. It's undercutting the values that flag represents. We should be proudly putting forth the flag, and the Constitution, as symbol and document which in and of themselves are antithetical to the very concept of racism in the first place.

You salute the flag BECAUSE THE FLAG ITSELF is a symbol of freedom and liberty for ALL, regardless of race (and sex, and religious beliefs, etc.)

What would I do? Well, that's a difficult question to answer because the answer is circumstantial to the scenario in which it happens. Castigating people in public is not likely to be conducive towards an intelligent discussion on the matter, and that's what is required.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2017 12:14 PM

2017-08-10T12:14:45-04:00

I always remember what I was told: We are here to defend Democracy, not practice it.

Response by LT Richard Mondak made Aug 18 at 2017 8:06 AM

2017-08-18T08:06:37-04:00

TENTH GENERAL ORDER:
Salute all officers and all colors and standards not cased.
Standard military courtesy applies as senior members and color guard pass.
(I know that the Army only has THREE General Orders).
Disobey an "order" - suffer the consequences.

Response by 1SG Tony Reaux made Nov 4 at 2018 11:43 PM

2018-11-04T23:43:17-05:00

I hope an NCO would bring him to me. As the 1SG, I would immediately go for Article 15, extra duty & flag duty for 60 days. You don’t deserve to be in the U.S. Army if you can’t support & defend our flag!

Response by SSG Brian Carpenter made Sep 8 at 2019 12:51 PM

2019-09-08T12:51:12-04:00

I just wish to state that everyone needs to read the regulations and figure it out in "black and white" YOU DO SALUTE THE STATIONARY COLORS ON THE POLE. Senior leaders saying different will set you up for failure. Read the regs yourself and see that it quite CLEARLY states what to do with regards to saluting uncased stationary colors