I am being told to go to PT by the command on only 4-5 hours of sleep. As a junior enlisted, how do I solve this problem?

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 00:37:24 -0400

We have a new 1SG and new commander. The 1SG noticed one day that only 5 people in the whole company showed up to PT. Now he put out to all the platoon Sergeants that everyone must show up to PT at either the 0530 formation or the 1600 formation.

However, my section is the only one in the hospital that has a 1600-0000 shift. I am being told by my first line that the 1SG says that I have to be at the morning formation, no exceptions.

I don’t want to sound like I’m whining but at the same time it’s unfortunate that I have to explain to myself as to why this isn’t right.

As a junior enlisted I do feel stuck.

How do I bring this issue up and solve this effectively and professionally?
Also: Do you know of any Army Regulations that can support anything?

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2019 12:49 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 00:49:56 -0400

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member It is always good to present a solution when bringing a problem to leadership. SFC Jason Boyd should be able to provide some great guidance regarding this issue.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2019 12:58 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 00:58:59 -0400

You mentioned that you are on a hospital shift from 1600-0000. I would present this as a patient safety issue that you are only being allowed 4-5 hours of uninterrupted sleep at a time. Find peer-reviewed articles that back this up. Talk to whomever is most senior on your shift about taking responsibility for an alternate daily PT time that works better with your work schedule. I would first present all this information through normal channels in your chain of command; if they aren't receptive, I would take it to whomever is in charge of patient safety at your hospital.

Response by SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint made Jun 12 at 2019 1:12 AM

SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 01:12:33 -0400

I know of no regulation that says you must get more than 4 hours of sleep, especially on the days that were 36 hours long. PT does help build your stamina. I agree with Jacob Blount, that it may be a patient safety issue. But, in most areas of the military the job has to get done even if you run out of hours.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2019 1:14 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 01:14:21 -0400

We had the same thing happen at my unit after a combination of people failing APFTs at BLC and semi annual pt failures. The battalion CSM in conjunction with the hospital deputy director flat out said they do not care what it interrupts pt will be conducted 0530-0630 everyday. We have people leaving patient care areas early for PT. We suck it up and complete the mission.

Try to get an alternate PT time. If that doesn’t work pick the PT session that deconflicts the most ie the evening session.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2019 1:22 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 01:22:59 -0400

FM 6-22.5 and FM 22-51 Are good reference points to start.

However, I’d ask, how are you only getting 4-5 hours sleep? If you work 1600-0000, and now the 1SG makes a 0530 PT sesh mandatory, there’s plenty of time for sleep. It seems as though you have a time management issue with a now inconvenient PT formation.

Alter your pattern to adjust working the night shift. For example.
1430: wake up, personal hygiene
1500: first meal
1600: work starts
0000: work ends
0000-0530: personal time (to include naps if you want)
0530-0730: PT
0730-0830: last meal, personal hygiene
0830-1430: sleep

I get it. It sucks. It might not be the best leadership decision, but it’s not an illegal leadership decision. However professional your approach might be, the most effective approach (for everyone) is to just show up, sound off like Forrest Gump in basic training, and after the 1SG feels like his point has been made, things will go back to normal.

Best of luck

Response by Cpl Mark Oresko made Jun 12 at 2019 4:51 AM

Cpl Mark Oresko — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 04:51:45 -0400

You say effectively and proficiently but mention the word argument. Consider the right answer as being one that will benefit your sleep but ruin your image. Was your section the 6 people who showed at 5:30? I wish I had problems this small both while I was in and now while I’m out. I’m sick of everyone looking for regulations just to make life simple for themself, when regulations are meant to maintain structure, integrity, honesty, and discipline. Don’t be mad at your first sergeant, be mad at the knuckleheads who screwed things up for you by not showing up at morning formation. Oh and if you really have to do something about this, bring it up to the first sergeant at the end of formation in front of everyone. That’s what a leader would do. Instead of passing a note or whispering on the side. Be blunt bold, loud and clear. No matter what, the first sergeant and everyone in formation might respect you more for opening your mouth. Even if you find a regulation, leave it out. That will only look bad.

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made Jun 12 at 2019 7:01 AM

LtCol Robert Quinter — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 07:01:29 -0400

I've got little patience with most complaints I read here from junior enlisted about how many hours their unit can make them work, etc. In your case I feel you have a valid complaint that should be addressed by the senior person in your shift. It shouldn't be a matter of access to whomever it might be since they are there working with you. Go to the senior person on shift, explain your problem and ask if the other people working with you are having the same problem and how they are handling it. If all have the same problem, the senior person should start up the chain with it. Moving the afternoon PT sessions to 1430 or so might be a solution. I would guess it's a temporary problem since the new 1st Sgt and CO are trying to correct a problem they saw with fitness/overweight personnel, but may not have been aware of the problem with your specific section.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Jun 12 at 2019 8:31 AM

SGT Dave Tracy — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 08:31:36 -0400

It's the military, not McDonald's! Change your mental approach. Sometimes in the military 4 - 5 hours are all the rest you get...hell, sometimes you get NONE. It's time for you to adapt, not your command.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2019 8:47 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 08:47:05 -0400

If you feel you're not getting adequate recovery time and it's affecting your physical well-being, bring it up to someone. The worst that can happen is that nothing changes. If your fatigue becomes a safety issue, then you're a liability. There isn't much in the way of specificity for RA soldiers in garrison though.

FM 22-51 Appendix A-9 states that while 6-8 hours of continuous sleep is preferred, They're only required to allow for a minimum of 4.

It is also stated in FM 6-22.5 Chapter 4:
Continuous operations are military operations with many pulses
of action every day and night, continuing for several days to weeks,
which require careful planning and resource allocation to give
everyone a minimum of 4 hours sleep in 24. (FM 22-51)

While this doesn't specify garrison, I wish you luck in getting that message across. It may be an easier task in your world than it is in mine.

TRADOC Regulation 350-6

(1) In garrison, IET Soldiers must have the opportunity for 7 hours of continuous sleep per night, unless the Soldier is scheduled for duty (for example, access control guard, or CQ runner). During field training, the length of the training day and time for sleep will vary based on tactical and other training requirements, as established in the appropriate POI. Commanders will ensure that the tactical framework of field training allows sufficient time for rest.

(2) In garrison, Soldiers are given at least 1 hour of preparation time each day to take care of personal needs.

Hope this helps with something.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2019 8:49 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 08:49:08 -0400

One thing to try:

A 30 minute nap has been shown to regain 30% of brain function. It's a quick recharge. As long as you don't exceed that (because you'll go into R.E.M. sleep and feel worse than you did before) you should function a little better until a more permanent solution or change can be found.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2019 9:22 AM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 09:22:08 -0400

Work with NCOIC and Chain of Command toward a solution. Some good advice from others here, so take heed. You'll be seen in a more favorable light if you offer a plan or proposal. If you don't offer a solution you're part of the problem. Good luck.

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Jun 12 at 2019 9:55 AM

SFC Melvin Brandenburg — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 09:55:12 -0400

You have two options. 1st is to suck it up and do the first slot. 2nd is to negotiate an alternate time, but make sure you keep your word. If 2nd doesn't work, don't complain and just do it.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2019 10:08 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 10:08:36 -0400

I had a similar situation when I was a junior enlisted. Your best advocate is your platoon sergeant / platoon leader who go to the command team and explain why this schedule may not be optimal. The key here is not only propose why the schedule is not good, but to propose an alternative that fits the needs of everyone and is better for your particular section. What bothers me about your situation (and in some cases the Army in general) is that someone is not looking to make things better, they are just looking at "good enough" with priorities in the wrong place. Bodies in formation sounds important, but I would think the safety of the patients in the hospital would be paramount. Also, there's the "taking care of people" aspect that we have become so bad at as officers and NCOs. Sure, you could go power nap, do your PT, and then sleep 6-7 hours after that. But you also need time to recharge and be a person. Any doctor, psychologist, etc. would agree such a thing is essential. Though sure, they can execute 1SG's guidance and be ok with making you all sacrifice everything to meet a "I need to see bodies" requirement, but the question every leader should be asking is: "is there a better way?" I can think of about 5 better ways so I know it exists. This is an example why command teams should never switch out at the same time (usually a 1SG stays while a new commander changes, etc. They never should change at the same time). You need to have that continuity of leadership. Someone to tell the new 1SG / or new Commander why a COA will not work and why based on the "continuity person's" experience at that level. You as a junior enlisted? Sadly you don't have much control. My advice would be to have a nice sit-down with your TL / SL / section leader, etc. and discuss the issue. Don't forget to offer alternatives. Hopefully that person will advocate alternatives to your platoon sergeant.

Response by SGT Nicholas M. made Jun 12 at 2019 11:01 AM

SGT Nicholas M. — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:01:11 -0400

I've tried to die on this hill before. It doesn't work, I promise. I was working 12 hour shifts in the ER 1700-0500 and we were expected to be at weekly PT before we went home. Same thing if there were barracks inspections, briefs, or any other random thing that might happen during my "off" time like SHARP Face to Face etc. No one is holding SHARP classes for the 5 of us at 0300 while we are at work, so we have to be there one way or another. My advice would be to mention how dumb this is (preferably to your E5 first line and no one higher) as more of a gripe and not a "I'm gunna fight the man!" and let him do what he will with that. If it were me, I would be in my NCOIC's ear about the NCO Creed and providing for our Soldiers etc etc and leave it at that. You can either piss and moan about how dumb this is (which it is), or you can accept that you will do a lot of dumb shit in the Army and use this as an exercise in resiliency. If you were in a deployed environment, you would weep tears of joy if 1600-0000 followed by a little PT were your only duties. Hunt the good stuff!

Response by SSG Brian G. made Jun 12 at 2019 11:09 AM

SSG Brian G. — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:09:15 -0400

Ok, so you have to do PT, having the option of either going at 0530 or 1600 and doing it. You work from 1600 to 2400. Now your shift ends at 2400, so you leave, drive home, conduct hygiene and hop in bed to fall asleep. Then go to PT at 0530, get released at 0630 ish and drive home again, another round of hygiene and hop in bed to fall asleep. That still leaves you, assuming you fall asleep by 0900, 6 solid hours of sleep, allowing you to rise at 1500, get read and drive in.

Your options are few and nothing in the regulations that will help you. My suggestion is to do the above, make it work, show up for 0530 PT and after a bit of time, plead your case to your first Sergeant and as necessary your commanding officer.

My suggestion would be to re-orient and use the time between 2400 and 0530 for tasks that you were otherwise doing during normal waking hours. IE laundry, pressing of uniforms, paying bills, correspondence, PMI of dwelling etc.

Response by SFC Michael D. made Jun 12 at 2019 11:12 AM

SFC Michael D. — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:12:47 -0400

I can remember coming home from a club just in time to change into PT uniform and go to PT. We held each other up and maybe one or two puked but we made it through. If you can't work on only four to five hours of sleep, you may want to pick up a new career. If you get deployed you will get less sleep than that. Plus you have two different time to go. I believe command is being very accommodating. You may need to do some time management.

Response by SCPO Lonny Randolph made Jun 12 at 2019 12:31 PM

SCPO Lonny Randolph — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 12:31:08 -0400

Not to be churlish, but really, do you think the enemy is going to postpone battle till you get your rest? As an engineer in a ship on 3 section duty WITH a full work day my normal day was 18 hours at sea, if all I had to do after a four hour watch was do pt and then crawl back in my tree I'd have thought I was on a pleasure cruise. The military life is all about overcoming adversity, grow up a little...

Response by SFC Michael D. made Jun 12 at 2019 12:39 PM

SFC Michael D. — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 12:39:13 -0400

Picture this, you just flew 8hrs of patient evac. After your last mission you are so tired that you just go to your cot and fall face first into the pillow. 15 minutes into that well deserved sleep, your crew chief runs in and says "we just got another mission, all crew are out". You run to the latrine and splash some water on your face and go do your job. Sleep be damned. You have to discipline yourself to do it. I've slept on the helicopter, in vehicles, on top of a pile of duffle bags that were sitting on a pallad. Discipline. And don't think that because we were deployed that we didn't do PT.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2019 2:04 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:04:33 -0400

Best advice I can give, (and I'm not trying to be a smartass), is to just suck it up and deal with it, your a soldier.

Response by SPC Cesar Freytes made Jun 12 at 2019 3:06 PM

SPC Cesar Freytes — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 15:06:12 -0400

Life's a bitch and then you join one.... then you retire and get to sleep whenever you want

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2019 4:39 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 16:39:58 -0400

Soldiers are only required to receive 4 hours of sleep and they do not have to be continuous. I would raise the issue through your NCO support channel and see if accommodations can be made.

What is the average PT score of your unit? Commanders often make decisions like this when they have a lot of individuals failing the APFT or on the ABCP.

Worse case scenario you just have to suck it up and drive on until you PCS/ETS. Commanders don’t have very many limits on what they can do to achieve their missions.

Response by PFC Michael Solis made Jun 12 at 2019 4:46 PM

PFC Michael Solis — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 16:46:34 -0400

I am out now and work for the Railroad on call 24/7. I usually work 12 hour days up to 15 and we can be called back to work in 10 and a half hours. Sometimes I can get a couple hours of sleep because I still have to get things done around the house or make it to an event for the kids. It all comes down to time management. Some days you will be tired like a dog, but you will appreciate the time off you do have. If you still choose to do medical after you separate a lot of those positions still work 12 hr shifts. Best of luck to you.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2019 9:34 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 21:34:38 -0400

Hate to be this guy but unfortunately you seem to be in one of those MoS that tend to get less sleep and just like others have said before you need to get use to it in case you deploy

Response by SPC Michael Oles SR made Jun 12 at 2019 10:14 PM

SPC Michael Oles SR — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 22:14:58 -0400

Put a smile on your face and show up to PT. Soldier your in the Military

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2019 10:35 PM

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 22:35:28 -0400

I have to rephrase this now lol.

Is there a more effective plan for this current situation?

Response by SGT Michael Vigliotti made Jun 12 at 2019 10:40 PM

SGT Michael Vigliotti — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 22:40:14 -0400

Go to PT Formation then go back to bed

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2019 5:36 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Jun 2019 05:36:02 -0400

Accountability is a must, this is a no fail mission. Being told that you have to be in accountability formation is part of what the Army dose. Their is going to be times in your military career where you are running on 2-3 hours of sleep. In the Army you adapt to change. New leadership means new policy's. Just like staff duty that's a 24 hours shift. My old 1SG had to many people complaining about being there for 24 hours and driving home on no sleep. He made us stay in the barracks because of "safety reasons" because the problem with people not getting enough sleep and driving home. After about a month no one complained.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2019 7:37 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Jun 2019 07:37:29 -0400

I worked in hospitals for the first 5 years of my service. I get that the swing shifts are tough, but you have to schedule your time around them. One schedule that someone listed below seems like a good one and it fits in with some chow hall times as well. Typically you rotate shifts every few months as well.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2019 7:49 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Jun 2019 07:49:17 -0400

I'm willing to bet that the reason its mandatory now is because theres a lot of PT failures or PT is just not happening. Judging by the timeline you've provided there looks to be lots of time for sleep. Sounds like you need to develop a routine that will accommodate you better and Soldier on.

Response by SSG(P) Jeffrey Elwood made Jun 13 at 2019 8:40 AM

SSG(P) Jeffrey Elwood — Thu, 13 Jun 2019 08:40:43 -0400

All the inspiration I can share with you is "sweat more now, bleed less later"

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2019 10:05 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Jun 2019 10:05:15 -0400

Do PT from 0530 to 0700 then go get sleep from 0800 to 1430...then you will have approximately 6 to 7 hrs of sleep just in time for your 1600-0000 shift

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jun 13 at 2019 10:17 AM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Thu, 13 Jun 2019 10:17:44 -0400

Some of you are going to have your ego hurt by what I am writing, but read this this all the way through and think long and hard on this before you hit that dislike/vote down button.

I have read some of the most bizarre, asinine, dare I say fool hardy comments, I have ever seen on Rally Point on this thread. Leaders, get a fracking clue, we are talking about soldiers who work in hospitals, not CQ, not Duty NCO, but soldiers who are treating YOUR soldiers! Would you want a civilian hospital to do the same thing as your loved one is laying in the ICU, NICU, or ER? How would you feel if you knew the staff only got 4-5 hours of sleep for weeks to months on end, and now your child is in their care? Feel good about yourself now? Feel like this is the way it should be for those who work these shifts? Feel like their soldier who got medevacked in deserves the best care we can give them, or some sub-standard level of care because we need to have full PT formations?

If you have never worked in health care, never had to work second or third shifts for prolonged time periods, had to work a person dying in front of you, well I got news for you: you haven't a clue! Ever watch a cardiac monitor for hours on end, try doing that in a sleep deprived environment, see how well you work out, or how well you like telling the survivors that their loved one passed away last night. With all the shortages in medical staff in the civilian world you don't think this kid is going to walk when his/her time is up? This is a case of Ego's, not leadership, or a lack of it. " I need to see a big unit in front of me." Hey Top, you run a hospital, that kid in ICU with the traumatic brain injury is far more important then your sniveling PT formation. That Kid in ICU is some ones loved one, if your second and third shift people are passing their PT tests lay off, or you will lose them, and won't be able to replace them, then you have bigger problems.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2019 7:35 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Jun 2019 19:35:02 -0400

SPC Davis,

I’ll flip this back to you repackaging what others have said in other posts.

First, be prepared to propose an alternative solution other than just not doing what the chain of command has ordered. Be detailed. Include DFAC hours etc. in your new proposed schedule along with any other influences as appropriate. Be passionate, but show emotional intelligence. Stick to tangible needs such as patient care as was mentioned, DFAC hours (unless your shift is receiving BAS) and the like. Be prepared to be a leader that helps the chain of command achieve the objective (accountability, less APFT failures, etc.) so you must get to the root cause as to WHY the chain of command chose this course of action. If your long term plans include continuing to serve, then I’d encourage you to volunteer to lead the solution. Small leadership roles early in your career can pay dividends later on, and I can almost guarantee that in your career field that you will encounter this again, at which point you will be prepared to offer a solution which has proven itself previously. Enlist the assistance of your NCOIC or OIC to help develop your plan. They have likely “been there, done that” as the saying goes. Finally, be prepared to not get the answer you’d like. It happens, no matter what ones rank. Keep in mind, your proposed solution must address the chain of command’s needs or it is a non-starter. Put the effort forth!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2019 12:28 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Jun 2019 00:28:41 -0400

You talk to your first-line leader (“FLL”) and present an alternate solution. If it is your entire section that works 1600-0000, suggest to your FLL that he run it up through the NCO Support Channel (i.e. from him to the section sergeant) that the NCOs on that shift be allowed to manage an alternate PT time for your section (or something else entirely that may work for your unit’s specific circumstances- be creative but not Wile E. Coyote). This demonstrates that you are not merely w complainer but someone who seeks to solve problems. Until that is approved, you go to PT and adjust your schedule as needed to maximize your sleep.

Response by LTC Gregory Harris made Jun 14 at 2019 7:38 AM

LTC Gregory Harris — Fri, 14 Jun 2019 07:38:32 -0400

PT is normally an hour to hour an a half. that gives you 9 hours to get additional sleep before your shift. Plan your time wisely.

Response by PO2 Floyd Fowler made Jun 14 at 2019 8:04 AM

PO2 Floyd Fowler — Fri, 14 Jun 2019 08:04:03 -0400

You should handle it by doing what your told it’s a MWF schedule... suck it up buttercup there are thousands doing your and doing it well with less sleep than that!

Response by SSG Michael Wiggle made Jun 14 at 2019 8:52 AM

SSG Michael Wiggle — Fri, 14 Jun 2019 08:52:22 -0400

Go to the mirror
Say " I am a soldier"
Suck it up, drive on!

Response by Rita Perry-LaChance made Jun 14 at 2019 10:52 AM

Rita Perry-LaChance — Fri, 14 Jun 2019 10:52:03 -0400

I believe you need to suck it up buttercup. Learning to work effectively with few hours sleep is something needed. Did you ever stay out late or up late and have to go to school the next morning? It is time to grow up and do what is needed. You did not sign up for girl scouts.

Response by SFC Cynthia Eyer made Jun 14 at 2019 12:40 PM

SFC Cynthia Eyer — Fri, 14 Jun 2019 12:40:25 -0400

SPC Davis,
I encourage you to research how other hospital units work around shift schedules, acquire some higher ranking support to present these options to your 1SG, and stand by the decision.
Sometimes a command is attempting to “teach” through means not always clear to all. Have you tried speaking with your 1SG? As an E4 I would (privately) have coffee early in the AM (0430’ish) with one of my 1SG’s to discuss matters of the day so my team would be in the know.
Being pro-active to the greater good of all is a leadership quality. If you strive to be a leader, then it would behoove you to try one or all of these options. Blessings in your endeavors in this situation. For no experience is without an opportunity to learn.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2019 12:55 PM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Jun 2019 12:55:53 -0400

You have to make your schedule work. You're relatively new. Your time management is your issue. If your duties dictate that you should carry night shift hours, then that's what you should do. Wake at 1430 hours, sleep at 0700 hours. You'll be able to accomplish what's being required of you. Just my humble opinion.

Response by PO2 William Rogers made Jun 14 at 2019 2:48 PM

PO2 William Rogers — Fri, 14 Jun 2019 14:48:48 -0400

It’s simple...suck it up and follow orders.

Response by SGT Martha Cain made Jun 15 at 2019 2:29 AM

SGT Martha Cain — Sat, 15 Jun 2019 02:29:52 -0400

Physical training requirements build strength & make one physically fit & mentally alert~! The body adapts & that is plenty of sleep for a soldier or the military would not ever endanger your body...the Army's investment. Believe me, that much sleep in a war zone would make you dream you were in Hawaii, on R & R~!

Response by SSG Mike Angelo made Jun 15 at 2019 5:17 AM

SSG Mike Angelo — Sat, 15 Jun 2019 05:17:46 -0400

The military is for the young and able body folks. As such, I believe that you will find a way to adapt to change and so will your work section and orderly room...holistically. Military life is not for everybody. You chose it so put on your happy face and roll with the changes. Hey, I like the idea of naps...get a wink when and where possible. Dont worry about time management, just be where you are suppose to be. A good Sergeant will be your time manager. Be observant and Soldier up! Change affects everybody. I think you worry too much.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Jun 15 at 2019 9:26 AM

SFC Robert Walton — Sat, 15 Jun 2019 09:26:32 -0400

I'm going to get some hate on this one however here goes.
You first of all do NOT need any regulations for this issue. What you do need is to work with some time management skills using your COC. Beware of New 1SGT. and New Commander situations that combination could find you making a career adjustment you didn't plan on.
I am always amazed when a command SPC would rather start waving regulations and such around with out trying first to work with the Chain of Command This rubs me as I am better than you, smarter than you, don't trust you, so I am going to do it my way. You have 100's of years of leadership and management with in reach but refuse to use it, I can assure you if I was your Platoon SGT. and you did what your trying to do we would be sitting down with some counseling paper work to adjust your shot group then we would move forward to working on your problem.

Now if this situation is not correctable with time management skills and your not the only one with the problem then having your PLT SGT on your side is going to be the best help you can get, on the other hand I can see a PLT SGT already meeting with the NEW 1SGT. and saying is there a way we can work out the shift and PT thing like SQD or PLT PT? I have excellent Soldiers out here that are burning down because of the changes and here is why.
Its always better to chose your battles wisely and take the appropriate arsenal with you should you choose to freelance it you should be prepared to take the collateral damage along with it. Remember the SQD, PLT, CO, Team thing? It is there because it works. JMTC

Response by LTC Ken Connolly made Jun 15 at 2019 4:43 PM

LTC Ken Connolly — Sat, 15 Jun 2019 16:43:48 -0400

SPC and promoteable. Maybe someone didn't tell you that you are in the Army. At some point you maybe a squad leader, machine gunner, or maybe a medic who was up all night taking care of wounded, pull all night perimeter duty with your squad and then fight for 2 days straight with little or no sleep. Or force march in all kinds of weather in all kinds of terrain and in all hours of the day and night for hours or days on end. My advice is to suck it up and do what the 1Sgt has directed you to do and approach your shift supervisor, NCO, to see if that person can cut you some slack on his or her end. Otherwise, just rest up on your weekend.

Response by CPT Tom Parr made Jun 16 at 2019 3:39 AM

CPT Tom Parr — Sun, 16 Jun 2019 03:39:14 -0400

Talk to your 1st line supervisor about modifying PT for the affected soldiers based on shift assignment. Sergeants get paid to take care of their troops.

Response by SPC Steve Oxley made Jun 16 at 2019 6:10 AM

SPC Steve Oxley — Sun, 16 Jun 2019 06:10:32 -0400

Suck it up its the Army.

Response by SFC Bill Snyder made Jun 16 at 2019 7:20 AM

SFC Bill Snyder — Sun, 16 Jun 2019 07:20:01 -0400

Suck it up Butter Cup and go to PT. The Army isn’t an 8-5 job. When you deploy it’s 24/7. Just go and do your best.

Response by SFC James Welch made Jun 16 at 2019 10:08 AM

SFC James Welch — Sun, 16 Jun 2019 10:08:00 -0400

What is is with young people today? I remember coming back with just time to shit, shower, shave and get into my uniform to make formation, and I never failed to do that. I was only one of many in those days. God help us if this is typical of today’s Soldiers

Response by SGT Beth Day made Jun 16 at 2019 1:31 PM

SGT Beth Day — Sun, 16 Jun 2019 13:31:58 -0400

How many people in your company have different shifts? Not just your section. If there is a significant number, perhaps another PT formation could be added? Or maybe the afternoon formation could be moved up an hour or so for second shift soldiers. Several times while I was on active duty, I had odd working times. Quite frankly we were forgotten about when schedules were made because the 1SG didn't see much of us. Take a plan to your section leader and see what happens.

Response by MSG Bill Yaeger made Jun 16 at 2019 4:55 PM

MSG Bill Yaeger — Sun, 16 Jun 2019 16:55:31 -0400

Hey you little vagina, snowflake, cry baby ass and go to work stop your f in whining. You WHIMP!!!!!!!

Response by SPC Dave Behrens made Jun 16 at 2019 9:49 PM

SPC Dave Behrens — Sun, 16 Jun 2019 21:49:35 -0400

It's kind of disappointing to see the "suck it up" comments. Yeah, there's a lot of things in the military that applies to. Things that need to be done and things that can't be rescheduled. But a policy that puts stress on a group of people just because their job has inconvenient hours, when it's the same command that dictates those hours... just so unnecessary.

Response by PO3 Rod Arnold made Jun 16 at 2019 11:56 PM

PO3 Rod Arnold — Sun, 16 Jun 2019 23:56:55 -0400

I would say your lucky to have gotten so much sleep!! If I, as a 1SG, had only 5 show for PT I'd be a little ticked off also. Suck it up for now, sometimes the squeaking wheel doesn't get oiled. Put up with what your given regardless of how unfair it may seem. Look at it like a test, and your being watched. Come time for a promotion don't be surprised if you find your name on that list!!

Response by SGT Thomas Seward made Jun 17 at 2019 12:18 AM

SGT Thomas Seward — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 00:18:10 -0400

The solution is to get your ass up and go to PT.
Ignore his directive and I’m sure that the 1SG can accommodate your request for more beauty sleep as a civilian.

Response by MAJ Lee Goehl made Jun 17 at 2019 12:54 AM

MAJ Lee Goehl — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 00:54:40 -0400

Well I know I've been retired for awhile but, wow. Having started my military career as a 91C, what you now call a 68C. I can and will tell you we did PT just like everyone else,and when I was attached to the 82nd in boots as well. And yes my NG Capt there were a few times we showed up hung over(and paid for it).But I do have to ask when did this become a punch the time card kind of job? As this person is promo to E5, I'm guessing this isn't their first PDA. Or has the Army changed that much in 20years?

Response by SPC Debra Mark made Jun 17 at 2019 5:11 AM

SPC Debra Mark — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 05:11:03 -0400

I went to PT at 05:30 every Friday morning after getting in at 0130 or 0200 that's part of the job. Sometimes because of being on call and getting called to one of the companies many sites I rolled in time for PT with no sleep ( 24 hours on duty plus ). If you get deployed you will be in that situation 24 hour duty that's why you get sleep when you can.

Response by MSgt Bruce Hutchinson made Jun 17 at 2019 8:11 AM

MSgt Bruce Hutchinson — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 08:11:12 -0400

I know that I was in a different situation but when I was last deployed, I worked 0600-1800 six days a week. I would get up at 0330 do personal pt, shit shower shave, eat breakfast then head to work. I would then get off, more personal pt., eat then have personal time until about 2130 when I hit my rack and sleep. That my friend was my late 40s.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2019 8:16 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 08:16:12 -0400

Suck it up or Get out.

Response by SPC Edward T Harris made Jun 17 at 2019 8:40 AM

SPC Edward T Harris — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 08:40:00 -0400

I cannot believe my eyes that this question is even being asked. Ask yourself what happens between 0000 (midnight) and 1600 (4 pm)? You have 16 hours off. You are obviously poorly educated in time management or missed that class.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2019 8:41 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 08:41:24 -0400

NCO's Make it Happen, Lead by example, simple as that

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jun 17 at 2019 9:24 AM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 09:24:16 -0400

Do you work a shift? Do the other shift workers do an alternative PT session for example, lets say you meet at the company to do PT at 1400. Maybe it’s just you but I doubt that. Your leadership needs to come up with a PT plan and present it to the 1SG and see what he has to say about it.

Response by SSG Robert Webster made Jun 17 at 2019 11:44 AM

SSG Robert Webster — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 11:44:39 -0400

Some interesting comments on this thread. It is also obvious that few people really read and understand the situation. This is a place where the 1SG is making a point but is also missing a point.

It is interesting that the first line supervisor is failing in his/her leadership for this soldier and their other soldiers. It is also interesting that many of you that have already commented reinforce that soldier's supervisor's leadership and management failure. What a sad state of affairs.

Response by SGT Robert R. made Jun 17 at 2019 4:32 PM

SGT Robert R. — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 16:32:09 -0400

Take your ass to PT. Can you imagine telling the enemy you can't fight today because you are tired?

This has to be a fake post. Right?!

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jun 17 at 2019 4:40 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 16:40:05 -0400

This is a do-over, yes? In any case notheingvhas changed. There is what the should do and what they can do, they can dictate participation. The first time I better articulated more.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2019 4:49 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 16:49:22 -0400

Your post sounds like you feel singled out. You aren't... if the new orders say "everyone must show up" it's not about you, it's a lack of team cohesion. Why are you only getting a few hours of sleep? Make better choices.

Response by CW3 Dan Mackey made Jun 17 at 2019 9:13 PM

CW3 Dan Mackey — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 21:13:12 -0400

Just get up and do your PT and go back to bed. Don't make a big deal of it and you will get used to it.

Response by SPC Jc "Viking" made Jun 17 at 2019 10:41 PM

SPC Jc "Viking" — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 22:41:36 -0400

I agree with your time management needing work. If you can't live with it, never approach a senior with a problem that you don't have at least a couple of solutions to. They have too much on their plate to worry about everyone's feelings, their job is the mission. Help them with the mission, they will in turn help you.

Response by 1stSgt Timothy Phillips made Jun 18 at 2019 7:33 AM

1stSgt Timothy Phillips — Tue, 18 Jun 2019 07:33:27 -0400

Fellow you need to grow up. When I was the PT Instructor at DI School at Parris Island, SC and had to stand Staff Duty at Regiment overnight, I got no sleep at all. As soon as the Regimental XO relieved me in the morning I had to go straight back to DI School and lead PT and then give whatever other classes I had to on he schedule for that day. I was told when I joined the Corps that I got paid to work every day all day. I understand that is feasible impossible, however as a Grunt in Vietnam I went of four hours of sleep a night for days on end when I was in the field. Each day on those operations we were humping through the jungle, through rice paddies, and sometimes in sandy areas like dunes at the beach. Even back on a company hill we only got about 6 hours of sleep a night. That was because we were standing watch or running ambushes and patrols off of the hill. You get off at midnight. Go to your room and go to sleep. Get up at 0500 and go to PT at 0530. When you get back take a shower and hit the rack. You can get plenty of sleep. And, YES, you are whining so suck it up and keep charging forward. If you do that your outlook on life in general will get a whole better.

Response by SFC Terry Weller made Jun 18 at 2019 9:30 AM

SFC Terry Weller — Tue, 18 Jun 2019 09:30:00 -0400

The military can’t please everyone non should they try. This isn’t the civilian world. Suck it up be a all you can be and have fun with the PT.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Jun 18 at 2019 11:58 AM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Tue, 18 Jun 2019 11:58:38 -0400

I'm sure our prospective enemies won't schedule an attack and attendant casualties to fit your schedule. Be prepared to work any time, any place, as well as you can for as long as you can. Train for it. Suck it up. Do the PT, then go get some extra rack time.

Response by PFC Bill Finlan made Jun 18 at 2019 12:39 PM

PFC Bill Finlan — Tue, 18 Jun 2019 12:39:17 -0400

Are you kidding me? You are in the military; do what you are instructed to do. Quit whining, handle your job, professionally. What are you going to do if the world blows up, and you have to pull a 72-hour shift saving lives? "Sorry that you have a lacerated femoral, but I've only had 5 hours of sleep; I'm outta here." Good lord.

Response by MSgt Stuart Lett made Jun 18 at 2019 12:49 PM

MSgt Stuart Lett — Tue, 18 Jun 2019 12:49:51 -0400

ask your section to adjust work hours to fit in line with new Unit PT requirements.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2019 1:57 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Jun 2019 13:57:24 -0400

PT plus an 8-hr shift? You got it easy. I recall working 10-16 hour shifts PLUS having to be in unit formations. (even a couple 20+ hour shifts). Granted, we didn't have unit formations every day, being a maintenance and logistics unit, but we only had one crew...day crew (0700-1630) where 1630 really meant until we reached a stopping point or the current logistics emergency was completed (red-stripe).

Sorry but this is one case where you just gotta suck it up. You joined the military and an 8-hr shift with a regular schedule is a luxury many do not have. While deployed we worked 12 on 12 off and were expected to PT on our own time and be ready for PFT, all while under threat of indirect fire constantly. Sleep? What's that?

If you are only getting 4-5 hours of sleep with 8-hour shift work, that sounds like a time management problem. I don't understand the problem. I routinely only got 4-6 hours of sleep when we actually had 8-hour shifts (family still required my time, too).

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2019 2:58 PM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Jun 2019 14:58:30 -0400

Oh my Gosh. PLEASE !!!!!!!! What has happened to the Military? And I mean ALL Branches.

Response by SP5 James Pospisil made Jun 18 at 2019 3:04 PM

SP5 James Pospisil — Tue, 18 Jun 2019 15:04:40 -0400

Suck it up Buttercup and show up. Quit your pansy ass whining.

Response by SP5 James Pospisil made Jun 18 at 2019 3:07 PM

SP5 James Pospisil — Tue, 18 Jun 2019 15:07:30 -0400

Suck it up Buttercup and show up and while youre at it quit your damn whining.

Response by SGT Vic Steroid made Jun 18 at 2019 3:49 PM

SGT Vic Steroid — Tue, 18 Jun 2019 15:49:27 -0400

Sorry - I have to agree with the OP. True, we all have to consider the option of working without sleep (I did enough of it), but in this particular circumstance, it's PT. This isn't training for an operation that would involve sleep deprivation. To put it simply - if you worked all day from 0800 to 1600, then had to run back to work at 2330 for PT, wouldn't that be an issue that should be repaired? We train as we fight - and if we're training people for poor management, then something should be re-examined. I do like the PT at 1430 idea.

Response by CPT Michael E. Cain made Jun 18 at 2019 4:13 PM

CPT Michael E. Cain — Tue, 18 Jun 2019 16:13:38 -0400

As a former enlisted and officer: get your scrawny ass off that bunk and go to PT. Push yourself until you puke. It's part of the job.

Due to an admin glitch, in 1985, when I graduated from OCS, I had to take a Pre-Commissioning PT test immediately after returning from a 12 day FTX. I had basically not slept in 12 days more than 2 hours at a time. It was my final commissioning PT test: passed it. Likewise, at your training commands and your unit, you will always have to push through when you don't like it. It's part of what being a soldier is all about.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2019 6:04 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Jun 2019 18:04:18 -0400

HM2. I spent time on the blue side and time on the green side. Green was pretty cool but very rigorous PTing with Marines and proving that “Doc could hang.”
Blue side often involved long hours In the hospital and late night duty etc. but we had incredibly good Navy chow , Pizzas and lots of beer in our off hours. Plus we got to sleep in warm beds with clean sheets and then hot showers. So a few of us Corpsman started looking a bit soft.
A similar concern may also be involved in your command’s decision to go apeshit over PT. Just sayin’

Response by LCpl Troy Gwyn made Jun 18 at 2019 7:43 PM

LCpl Troy Gwyn — Tue, 18 Jun 2019 19:43:21 -0400

Go to PT. The Corps has a saying for just the occasion. "Embrace the suck."

Response by TSgt Peter Thibault made Jun 18 at 2019 9:21 PM

TSgt Peter Thibault — Tue, 18 Jun 2019 21:21:00 -0400

Even in the Air Force we had to do things like this. It’s part of military life. I once worked an 1800 to 0230 shift and was required to attend pt in the morning at 0500. That was the only session offered and it was mandatory to attend. Granted I was single at the time and didn’t have any home obligations, I had to prioritize everything else around those two mandatory events (work and pt). Now I’m retired from the military, am married, have three small children, and have spend 11 hours a day driving to and from work and working. I wish I could get 6 hours a night. It’s all relative.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2019 10:29 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Jun 2019 22:29:33 -0400

I call BS. No command for a medical specialist is keeping you at work until midnight and mandating only 5.5 hours of sleep. Probably poor time management on your part. Send me a Private message with your commanders info and i will call them to discuss if this is truly the case.

Response by Lt Col Russell Carlisle made Jun 18 at 2019 11:24 PM

Lt Col Russell Carlisle — Tue, 18 Jun 2019 23:24:42 -0400

Part of being a leader is listening to your people when they have a valid concern. Based on the facts presented, I think this fits the definition of a valid "gripe".
What's the ultimate goal here? Get the mission (work) done and maintain a fit, motivated fighting force. It seems to me the PT can be accomplished at another time. The senior soldier at the hospital should be directed to get the PT done. Why as a CO or a senior NCO would you care when the PT gets done as long as it gets done?
"Because it sucked for me, it has to suck as much or more for you" is weak. Be a leader, not a dictator. Empower your soldiers; give them some responsibility to get a task accomplished. Ultimately, it's going to make YOUR job easier. My $.02.
Retired O-5 USAF unit commander

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2019 12:22 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 00:22:28 -0400

You need to problem solve here. You need to change when you sleep. You can sleep from 0700 to 1430 and get 7.5 hours of sleep.

Problem solved.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2019 1:26 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 01:26:05 -0400

Omg I take it your a nasty leg ? Shit i I used to to party and would barely make it to formation but I still did pt still drunk off my ass ass and I mighta puked BUT I NEVER QUIT JESUSCHRIST I bitched but never quit and if top said to be in formation at 600 then you were there! And god help you if you were late cuz top woulda kicked your ass all over the place what the hell would you do if you were in combat tell abdula to hold on while you get some more sleep? Do your goddamn job and do what your ordered to do or get the fuck out I can’t believe what the army is letting in now days what a pussy Spec 4 ets Haas 2bn 2/508th ABN INF 82nd AIRBORNE DIVISION

Response by SSG Charles McDermott made Jun 19 at 2019 8:35 AM

SSG Charles McDermott — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 08:35:42 -0400

Deal with it

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2019 2:23 PM

Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 14:23:12 -0400

The enemy doesn't care how much sleep you've had. Suck it up, butter cup.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2019 2:56 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 14:56:39 -0400

Do I believe you should receive a "late call," yes. Are you entitled to one, absolutely not.

But really, I can't believe a SPC in the same Army as me even has the temerity to bring this question here.

If anything, you should talk to your FLL, and see if they can run it up the chain that SM's working late night or overnight, should receive a "late call."

It sounds like the new leadership there may be trying to flex a little, to get your unit to toe the line.

Response by SSG Thomas Barry made Jun 19 at 2019 5:58 PM

SSG Thomas Barry — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 17:58:08 -0400

Suck it up cupcake and get er dun

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2019 9:33 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 21:33:44 -0400

Suck it up troop, this is not camp. Definitely sounds like quibbling, if not whining. Move out and drive on.

Response by CPL Gary Dishman made Jun 20 at 2019 12:15 AM

CPL Gary Dishman — Thu, 20 Jun 2019 00:15:45 -0400

Suck it up as I have been out at a concert half drunk and we had to be up at 0530 for PT and we had only get if we was luck 10 minutes and most days we never made it all the way through PT . And when I was in Desert Storm I worked from 1800 til 0600 and then I had 4 hours of guard duty and then I had to drive as I was a mechanic and I drove the company 20 ton wrecker and most days I made it back and most day's we didn't . So suck it up are ETS and I sucked it up and did 20 and if you can't handle the heat then get out of the kitchen and your lucky to work inside as I was an Army Engineer Heavy and we was the one's they called when things needed to be destroyed .

Response by CPL Gary Dishman made Jun 20 at 2019 12:22 AM

CPL Gary Dishman — Thu, 20 Jun 2019 00:22:26 -0400

But I didn't have to show up for Formation are PT as back in Germany I drove for the BIG BRASS as in LTC and up and I had to be in their office at 0700 and ready for the day . That was the best 3 yrs as I never did PT are Formation's if I wanted to know what was going on I would ask my 1st Sarg. other than that I never showed up .

Response by 1SG Juan Mafnas made Jun 20 at 2019 10:53 AM

1SG Juan Mafnas — Thu, 20 Jun 2019 10:53:05 -0400

Specialist, do you remember being at Basic Training with only limited sleep time and then begin training very early the next day? If you worked an 8-hour shift at the hospital and had to attend PT at 0530 hours, you can go back to sleep afterwards until you have to get ready for your shift. Just because you work in a Garrison environment does not exclude you from always training and preparing for combat where you could be deployed at a moments notice. I highly suggest that you look at getting control of your time management skills and make some adjustment to your daily schedule to meet all the training requirements and work schedule. Your first line supervisor should also look at a rotation of soldiers in the work schedule at the hospital so that everyone in your platoon has an opportunity to experience a different work environment that will prepare them for combat situation. You have made it this far in the Army as a Specialist so I know that you have the skills and training to adapt and overcome to complete your mission.

Response by SGT Roger Sharpnack made Jun 20 at 2019 10:59 AM

SGT Roger Sharpnack — Thu, 20 Jun 2019 10:59:59 -0400

I'm guessing that you're not an Airborne Ranger.

Response by SGT Roger Sharpnack made Jun 20 at 2019 11:02 AM

SGT Roger Sharpnack — Thu, 20 Jun 2019 11:02:35 -0400

I'm guessing that you're not an Airborne Ranger....

Response by Sgt Cody Hardy made Jun 20 at 2019 11:44 AM

Sgt Cody Hardy — Thu, 20 Jun 2019 11:44:44 -0400

This is not a problem. You going to not fight because you did not get your beauty sleep. Stop being a bitch!!!

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 20 at 2019 4:02 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Jun 2019 16:02:33 -0400

Specialist, perhaps you could speak to your shift supervisor and ask to report to duty 15 minutes late due to the First Sergeants accountability formation(unless he wants you to actually complete PT, for which only the 0530 time is a viable solution). Better yet, ask your Platoon Sergeant to speak to both your first Sergeant and/or your shift supervisor to find a compromise that works for all involved. Otherwise, sleep for a couple of hours complete PT take a shower and then go back to bed.

Post Script: Like SFC Davila stated, when my fellow E4 mafia and I would were at our first duty station. Wwe would come in from a night out just in time for PT and then we would try to sleep it off during personal hygiene/breakfast and lunch hours. Take another nap after duty and then do it all over again.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 20 at 2019 4:16 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Jun 2019 16:16:18 -0400

You suck it up and go to PT, the alternative is to be a civilian

Response by SFC William Bethea made Jun 20 at 2019 5:09 PM

SFC William Bethea — Thu, 20 Jun 2019 17:09:15 -0400

I have spent multiple combat and noncombat deployments, getting only 2 to 3 hours of sleep most nights. You adjust for it and do yoir job, then catch up on sleep when you can.
Remember you joined the military, it is very different than a civilian job. If you can not accommodate yourself to the military, ETS when it is your time.

Response by SSG Robert Tucker made Jun 20 at 2019 5:10 PM

SSG Robert Tucker — Thu, 20 Jun 2019 17:10:46 -0400

GET THE FUCK TO PT AND SHUT YOUR FUCKING WHINEY LITTL MOUT !!

Response by LCDR Robert Russnogle made Jun 20 at 2019 5:53 PM

LCDR Robert Russnogle — Thu, 20 Jun 2019 17:53:05 -0400

Simple. Go to PT

Response by SFC Don Kehote made Jun 20 at 2019 6:32 PM

SFC Don Kehote — Thu, 20 Jun 2019 18:32:08 -0400

Shut your Yap. There are soldier suffering far greater than you. We are legally at war. You'll damn well do what command tells you to do or go to jail. The hell with your sensitivity.

Response by Cpl Thomas Woods made Jun 20 at 2019 6:51 PM

Cpl Thomas Woods — Thu, 20 Jun 2019 18:51:07 -0400

Suck it up!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 20 at 2019 7:25 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Jun 2019 19:25:52 -0400

Modern-day disaster. Can remember that 4:00 trash can lid being the alarm clock and on the formation at 4:20. One mentioned getting in just in time to change and go puke while running, now those were the days. Get a little rank and think you can be immune that never happened. It may seem like discomfort but someone mentioned perhaps some better time management. I would suggest you have no complaint for today it is your job to figure out how to do it. If you are fortunate enough to get to combat you will be amazed what 30 minutes of sleep will do for you and those who expect nothing less from you.

Response by PFC David Ziegler made Jun 20 at 2019 7:40 PM

PFC David Ziegler — Thu, 20 Jun 2019 19:40:46 -0400

there where many nights I never got a bed to lie on let alone to sleep lol - pvt candy ass I feel so sorry for you ( not in any way )

Response by SPC Heath Hansen made Jun 21 at 2019 12:26 AM

SPC Heath Hansen — Fri, 21 Jun 2019 00:26:36 -0400

Welcome to the United States Army.

Response by SSG Lenzie Bailey made Jun 21 at 2019 12:44 AM

SSG Lenzie Bailey — Fri, 21 Jun 2019 00:44:41 -0400

I hate to say this high speed but as a Junior Soldier you won't be able to solve this. Now with that being said, your command needs to put together a plan that will accommodate soldiers on shift work. I'm sure there is an NCOIC of your shift that should competent enough to conduct PT for his or her shift. I did it myself as a squad leaders with my Joes when we worked night flights. And if he or she isn't capable of doing that then they shouldn't be in charge of anything.

Response by LCpl William Perry made Jun 21 at 2019 7:42 AM

LCpl William Perry — Fri, 21 Jun 2019 07:42:32 -0400

From a Marine Vet that was 0331 M-60 gunner I have to SMH. Really? If you cannot PT on 5 hours of sleep then what shape are you in if you have to deploy? The lives of your brothers and Sister could depend on that, the mission could depend on that. I have to ask if the military is suited for you?

Response by SGT Charles Tittl made Jun 21 at 2019 8:17 AM

SGT Charles Tittl — Fri, 21 Jun 2019 08:17:19 -0400

Embrace the suck

Response by SGT Robert R. made Jun 21 at 2019 10:12 AM

SGT Robert R. — Fri, 21 Jun 2019 10:12:12 -0400

I saw this image, reminds me of my junior enlisted days and somewhat relevant here.

Shut up, Stand up, and Show up (maybe even throw up too). It does your career good.

Response by SGT Joseph Cashman made Jun 21 at 2019 12:28 PM

SGT Joseph Cashman — Fri, 21 Jun 2019 12:28:27 -0400

Sorry, if you are looking for sympathy you are looking in the wrong place. Part of you being a fit soldier is performing PT. Like many others who have posted I served in the "old days" 1975-1979. Monday morning "PT" was in formation exercises followed by a in formation 2 mile run. Eventually our command allowed as to break formation and those soldiers who were faster managed to get to the showers before everyone else. PT is part of the Army. Deal with it and when your enlistment is up maybe you will find a nice CEO job (doubtful) and be able to avoid any kind of physical exercise.

Response by PO2 Paul Dempsey made Jun 21 at 2019 4:04 PM

PO2 Paul Dempsey — Fri, 21 Jun 2019 16:04:51 -0400

1sg is keeping you guys fit and working as a team unit. Nothing in your contract makes you special. If things go sideways you'll thank him for keeping you and the unit in shape. I did many 16 hour days than had colatarel duties. Some days you get the bear and some days the bear gets you. Once the 1sg sees improvement I'm sure he'llease up some

Response by LTC Raymond Buenteo made Jun 21 at 2019 4:41 PM

LTC Raymond Buenteo — Fri, 21 Jun 2019 16:41:40 -0400

I have a suggestion. Get off your candy butt and go to PT. It’s not about fair it’s about duty and PT is one of your responsibilities

Response by SFC James Pritchert made Jun 21 at 2019 9:43 PM

SFC James Pritchert — Fri, 21 Jun 2019 21:43:21 -0400

The answer is the obvious and not the answer you want to hear. Go to PT formation and keep your profile low. Personnel and policies will change as they always do. Depending on your post service job, things can get a lot worse.

Response by SSG Robert Webster made Jun 21 at 2019 9:54 PM

SSG Robert Webster — Fri, 21 Jun 2019 21:54:13 -0400

SSgt Joseph Baptist Is one of the few people making reasonable, reasoned comments. I believe that most commenting on this thread could learn some leadership and management skills if you could just emulate that philosophy.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2019 10:05 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Jun 2019 22:05:03 -0400

I'd say show up to the 0530 formation, but also go through the chain of command to point out this apparent dilemma. Maybe an exception can be made for your section.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2019 10:24 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 22 Jun 2019 10:24:23 -0400

Suck it up man it won't be the first or last time. It's just PT

Response by PO2 William Collins made Jun 22 at 2019 1:27 PM

PO2 William Collins — Sat, 22 Jun 2019 13:27:21 -0400

PUSSY

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2019 1:30 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 22 Jun 2019 13:30:50 -0400

SPC Davis,

If it was me in this situation, I would wake up around 1500 and get ready for my shift at 1600. After my shift I would do laundry, barracks/ home maintenance, professional development and whatnot. I would then go to PT at 0530. Once PT was complete I would return home and conduct personal hygiene and make sure my uniforms and equipment I need for the next day were G2G and hit the rack.... Time management is imperative, especially as a leader. Some of the comments here may have been frustrating to read and a little counterproductive to the end goal, but we are here hopefully for professional development. To lead, train, mentor and learn...... This We’ll Defend!!!!!

Response by Cpl Darrin Carnagua made Jun 22 at 2019 3:55 PM

Cpl Darrin Carnagua — Sat, 22 Jun 2019 15:55:07 -0400

Suck it up buttercup. War will not let you sleep, and you need to be physically and mentally tough to survive. Rise to the occasion and go to PT without complaining.

Response by SP5 Michael Smith made Jun 22 at 2019 4:28 PM

SP5 Michael Smith — Sat, 22 Jun 2019 16:28:57 -0400

How did you make it through basic training? That's part of being a ready soldier. Trust me, should you ever be involved in combat, the enemy isn't going to wait to engage you just because you got to bed late!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2019 4:30 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 22 Jun 2019 16:30:13 -0400

I have been getting 3-5 hours of sleep the last 10 years. My answer is suck it up and do your job. Your a soldier now. Trying to get out of it will only put you on shakey ground on your chain of command. When you really want them to be team SPC Davis.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2019 6:52 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 22 Jun 2019 18:52:58 -0400

Just sounds like you should deal with it

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Jun 23 at 2019 11:29 AM

SSG Shawn Mcfadden — Sun, 23 Jun 2019 11:29:42 -0400

Time MANAGEMENT. That is your ONLY solution. That should have taught to you when you went to WLC(Previously known as PLDC).

Response by Capt Rob Carty made Jun 23 at 2019 12:38 PM

Capt Rob Carty — Sun, 23 Jun 2019 12:38:38 -0400

I don't mean to be harsh, but I can't even fathom the question. This isn't a labor union. So it's pretty simple: you do the PT and ask for seconds.

Can you imagine what would happen in combat if questions like these were asked? How much have we lowered our standards to invite this kind of thinking into the military?

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2019 1:47 PM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Jun 2019 13:47:35 -0400

Having worked on swings like that before I would follow the advice you got about building a better schedule. Time management skills can only help you, but for addressing this if you find that it continues to be an issue try to think of as many ways that you yourself can be proactive and if there are gaps, ask for help filling THOSE.

Things like "I've given myself adequate time to address the typical chores/issues I might run into but any sudden issues cut into my only adequate sleep time. The best solution I can see for me to address this problem is X." go a long way.

It might not work but this way you've put in your due effort and if they can't provide you an issue then when an issue escalates or if you start to struggle to meet mission requirements you can readdress it having been ahead of the curve.

Response by CPL Gary Pifer made Jun 23 at 2019 2:15 PM

CPL Gary Pifer — Sun, 23 Jun 2019 14:15:01 -0400

Buckets of tears.....some sad sack is on patrol or on Guard duty...in Afganistan as you climb out of a warm sack... to do your exercises...then climb back in.... try sleeping in the muck in a down pour.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2019 3:08 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Jun 2019 15:08:27 -0400

my question is are the rest of your section going to PT, and many things in the army aren't right, like mass cals when they hit you respond no matter what time its your job

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Jun 23 at 2019 6:21 PM

1SG Dennis Hicks — Sun, 23 Jun 2019 18:21:23 -0400

Where you one of the 5 that showed up ? Nothing is forever, your unit is required to maintain the PT Standard and it says volumes when the 1SG has to micro manage a requirement.

Response by MAJ Patrick Hairston CISSP, AWS Certified Cloud Architect made Jun 23 at 2019 7:36 PM

MAJ Patrick Hairston CISSP, AWS Certified Cloud Architect — Sun, 23 Jun 2019 19:36:51 -0400

"As a junior enlisted I do feel stuck." You are supposed to. It's a test to see if you can do what you are told.
"How do I bring this issue up and solve this effectively and professionally? " You ask for a private meeting with the 1SG. Lay out your case. If he says no, then you go to PT at the time designated.
"Do you know of any Army Regulations that can support anything?" Nothing. This is basic soldiering. It's you completing a task. It's you having the fortitude to complete the mission in uncomfortable circumstances. You arent working for Amazon, google or a bank. You are in the military. Adapt to your circumstances and you will be fine.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2019 9:53 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Jun 2019 21:53:47 -0400

Perhaps I am going to oversimplify... . Have PT at the beginning of every shift. Report to PT for the shift you are currently assigned. This shouldn’t be that hard for “leadership” to figure out.

Response by LTC Charles "Pappy" Patchin made Jun 23 at 2019 10:04 PM

LTC Charles "Pappy" Patchin — Sun, 23 Jun 2019 22:04:38 -0400

Life is a bitch.
Having burned shit with the best of them, I'm thinking that you should put in for a compassionate discharge because you don't love yourself enough to be a real soldier.

Response by Cpl Bernard Bates made Jun 24 at 2019 1:34 AM

Cpl Bernard Bates — Mon, 24 Jun 2019 01:34:33 -0400

I was at Ft. Knox in 64 the Company fell out at 0515 every morning 6 days for Pt. I notice serveral drafted personell never fell out and they were never reported as absent. So I purposely didn't fall out for rollcall and Pt. My name was turned in as absent so the other missing draftees names had to be turned in also. On Sunday Morning myself and the other absent personel had to go to the EM Club at 0900 to clean the place up. I heard them bitching about some lifer didn't fall out for PT. and that's why they got turned in. I had a smile on my face the whole time we were on the cleanup detail. They fell out for awhile after that. More than once when I was in the Marine Corp I fell out for Pt and rollcall on a couple hrs. sleep after a night of drinking. In the Corp if you didn't fall out rollcall and Pt. you had to be sick and were sent on sick call. If nothing was found wrong with you even with a hangover you did extra duty. But when your young you don't care you live for the moment. Best time I ever had. Semper fi.

Response by SPC Todd Everetts made Jun 24 at 2019 7:03 AM

SPC Todd Everetts — Mon, 24 Jun 2019 07:03:36 -0400

Man up princess. I once did a 9 and 1/2 mile run on 45 minutes sleep after returning from Juarez Mexico 1 hour before PT formation. I'm not recommending it but you signed up to be in those formations and to do the PT.
others have been a whole lot worse than you do. Ask those soldiers you're taking care of how they would feel if they got 4 to 5 hours sleep per night they love to be in your shoes

Response by LTC Marvin Gibson made Jun 24 at 2019 10:02 AM

LTC Marvin Gibson — Mon, 24 Jun 2019 10:02:10 -0400

He's got a point!...

Response by MAJ John Douglas made Jun 24 at 2019 10:09 AM

MAJ John Douglas — Mon, 24 Jun 2019 10:09:44 -0400

PT is optional???? Imagine a First Sgt noticing only 5 soldiers at PT! Too late, you do sound like you are whining.

Response by PO2 Joseph Fast made Jun 24 at 2019 3:27 PM

PO2 Joseph Fast — Mon, 24 Jun 2019 15:27:15 -0400

For OP: I wish I could help you. I would try to get your command to accept personal PT for you or earlier 2nd shift PT. You can almost find willing participants who are both willing and able to do group PT earlier. You will likely be working out with people outside your immediate command, but you have a better chance if there is someone leading the PT.

For others: I am totally shocked "sarcasm" that so many people just don't understand the issue. Suck it up buttercup, is pretty much all I hear. Do you people even care about retention rates?

First off to repeat what I agree with: "She is medical staff". Half a dozen other people have already explained this so I won't go into it.

"Prepare yourself for being deployed?" Yeah seriously, what the hell is wrong with most of you? Deployment sucks, but it ends eventually. Yeah, sometimes you get sucked into back to back deployments, but it will end. Now what happens when you are finally no longer employed? You get a break. You get to live normally. Well not always, sometimes the command has a stupid fucking policy that hurts you. Sometimes your chain of command just doesn't care to help you out with your problems and decides your sleep is irrelevant.

"Manage your time" Have you ever had night shift? You obviously haven't had night shift while not deployed or you wouldn't say this. You clearly don't know anything. This has NOTHING to do with time management. It's interrupted sleep cycles. Not being able to get back to sleep. Random command wide things even night shift people have to attend. It is no different than being deployed or at least that is how it usually felt to me. Many times deployment was better for me than being stuck on night shift. There are just too many daily events "and random" that night shift people have to deal with. Do you see the "V" by my name? Yeah, when her contract is up, you're going to see a "V" by her name too.

Response by GySgt Tony Capps made Jun 24 at 2019 7:21 PM

GySgt Tony Capps — Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:21:53 -0400

My initial response is that this isn't problem and to yell at you. But you're young and it DOES suck. Get used to suck. I lat moved after my first enlistment and had midnight shift classes but still had to be up for CO PT. It is what it is. If it helps (at your young age and rank maybe it won't) understand that your CO has a duty to report the fitness level of his company to HIS CO. So, in essence, he has to do this. You made the choice to serve, but I believe (and hope) that you will see that your brothers will serve you right back. Hang in there, toughen up, and you'll be proud of yourself for doing so. Oohrah, soldier!

Response by 1SG Frank Boynton made Jun 24 at 2019 7:56 PM

1SG Frank Boynton — Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:56:41 -0400

Suck it up butter cup. You are whining. PT is required to maintain readiness standards. You’re in the Army, not some fancy social club.

Response by LTC Wayne Brandon made Jun 24 at 2019 8:33 PM

LTC Wayne Brandon — Mon, 24 Jun 2019 20:33:02 -0400

For starters, that is what your chain of command is for and I strongly advise you to use it.
Secondly, just think how great you will sleep when you return to your residence to clean up and go back to bed.
Third, there is no reason you cannot do PT after 3 or 4 hours of sleep. The infantry has a history of fighting in major, high intensity battles for days with little to no sleep and guess who is up the same amount of time tending to the wounded and dying? Guys like you.
Surely you can do it on what your First Shirt and commander have allowed - in fact I know you can.
Finally, I work very physical 12 - 14 hour days in a hot, humid job shop that I own on just 5 hours sleep per night and happy if I get 5.5 - 6 hours on a good night. By the way - I'm 68 years old and if I can do it, surely you can; just stretch a little and experience the life of a soldier.

Response by CPL James Barnstead made Jun 25 at 2019 8:58 AM

CPL James Barnstead — Tue, 25 Jun 2019 08:58:01 -0400

Sleeps a crutch you don’t need it. Get Deployed, have kids or get a job working midnights in the civilian world.

Response by SPC David S. made Jun 25 at 2019 9:30 AM

SPC David S. — Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:30:22 -0400

Something I noticed in your question - you stated "my section is the only one in the hospital that has a 1600-0000 shift." So are there others in your company making it to PT? Just saying if you can demonstrate its not an individual issue might be able to work out an alternate schedule with your top for your section. This may require some creativity to fix but you can do it. However in the mean time show up to PT. Don't piss off you top as it will not help in finding a way to resolve your sleep deprivation.

Response by 1SG Cj Grisham made Jun 25 at 2019 9:34 AM

1SG Cj Grisham — Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:34:58 -0400

Use the open door policy. Ask your platoon sergeant to bring this up with the 1SG. He should be advocating for you anyway. I know I would be standing on desks for my Soldiers in this situation. If this fails, tell your PSG you want to speak with the 1SG yourself. If that doesn't work, go to the commander himself and keep going until this is solved. Will you ruffle feathers? Only to the weak leaders. It's one thing to complain because you party late at night, but this is not that problem. This is a scheduling issue and it is not conducive to health to consistently get less than six hours of sleep. The National Institute of Health says getting less than six hours of sleep contributes to health problems and a shortened life span. Is this really what the Army wants? Any First Sergeant worth his salt will make exceptions and adjust accordingly.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3010336/

The folk belief that we should sleep 8 hours seems to be incorrect. Numerous studies have shown that self-reported sleep longer than 7.5 hours or shorter than 6.5 hours predicts increased mortality risk. This study examined if prospectively-determined ...

Response by MSG Arturo Jauregui made Jun 25 at 2019 10:25 AM

MSG Arturo Jauregui — Tue, 25 Jun 2019 10:25:37 -0400

Hospital staff service members enjoy the comforts of a 9-5 type position. Sounds like the 1SG found out that all or most of his Soldiers are a little to comfy there and are not showing up for PT formation. One of the required formations for a typical unit. The only problem here seems to be a misunderstanding that an order to be at PT formation is an issue or problem as the question is posed. There is no problem. Do your job as a Soldier. That includes being at PT formation.

Response by SGT Cort Landry made Jun 25 at 2019 11:08 AM

SGT Cort Landry — Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:08:32 -0400

Go to PT... It will build up your system to help you when you have no sleep at all and still have function.

Response by LCpl Russell Wallace made Jun 25 at 2019 7:19 PM

LCpl Russell Wallace — Tue, 25 Jun 2019 19:19:11 -0400

Easy solution: shut up and show up. Jesus guy you’re in the military. You don’t get to just pick and choose which parts you want. At least you have a steady schedule and an easy job. You could be stuck in the field for a couple months with MRE shits and 2 hours of sleep per night.

Response by SMSgt Clayton Cortinas made Jun 26 at 2019 2:34 AM

SMSgt Clayton Cortinas — Wed, 26 Jun 2019 02:34:05 -0400

Sometime in the near future, my fellow medic, you may end up in a field hospital where you NEVER know when a patient load will suddenly surge and you may have to extend your "shift" and work through 12 - 18 hour DUTY times. Will you have the stamina to carry through or will you request that the casualties stop bleeding long enough for you to take a nap? I flew aeromedical evacuation missions that would go from 17 - 20 hours with little to no time for sleep. While in the Army as a 91C my team would constantly be alerted to return for incoming injuries and your "shift" wasn't over until all had been cared for and bedded down. Even while on the job in the civilian ER I worked it wasn't unusual for a sudden surge in trauma victims that would result in 12 - 16 hour shifts and we had to be back in a few hours for our next assigned shift. Suck it up and get tough, you might just surprise yourself on what you can accomplish. You have the honor of being in a great MOS, do it with pride & honor.

Response by SPC Clayton Ellzey made Jun 26 at 2019 11:47 AM

SPC Clayton Ellzey — Wed, 26 Jun 2019 11:47:26 -0400

I have done PT hungover with no sleep.
Had to dig deep and get it done.
There is no rule that's says you can't lay back down since you don't report to duty til 1600.

Response by Sgt Able Snider made Jun 26 at 2019 2:07 PM

Sgt Able Snider — Wed, 26 Jun 2019 14:07:10 -0400

"I am being told to go to PT by the command on only 4-5 hours of sleep. As a junior enlisted, how do I solve this problem?" Answer= You go to PT.

Response by CPL Steve Freeman made Jun 26 at 2019 3:01 PM

CPL Steve Freeman — Wed, 26 Jun 2019 15:01:57 -0400

My suggestion is to get a wash cloth, soak it in some warm soapy water and rub it in your snatch until you get all that sand outa there. Be a man. Show up for PT and do it when youre supposed to. It may save your life some day. Its a lot easier to stay in shape than it is to get back in shape.

Response by PO2 Jay O'Brien made Jun 26 at 2019 3:27 PM

PO2 Jay O'Brien — Wed, 26 Jun 2019 15:27:47 -0400

You sound like all these snowflakes and millennials maybe you should go sell AVON and quit your whining your in the military not in Dora the explorer

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2019 12:22 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 27 Jun 2019 00:22:36 -0400

SPC Davis, PT is mandatory every morning. There is always a time we’re u might feel exhausted, or not getting enough sleep. But pt is something you should always want to do regardless. It’s essential to your success in the military. And beneficial during deployments. EMBRACE THE SUCK. Adapt and overcome.

Response by SGT Charles Tillman made Jun 27 at 2019 12:13 PM

SGT Charles Tillman — Thu, 27 Jun 2019 12:13:28 -0400

Young soldier, I would suggest that you devote some time to researching the Army regulations before making complaints to command.
FM 22-51 Appendix A-9: Shifts which allow each individual 6 to 8 hours of continuous sleep when feasible are preferred. Provide soldiers with a minimum of 4 hours of uninterrupted sleep in a 24 hour period (6-8 hours optimum). This greatly extends soldiers and crew endurance limits.

See how easy that was? You are entitled to time to get a minimum of 4 hours. It is your responsibility to utilize that time properly or live with the consequences. Complaining about things that comply with the refs because you don’t like them will only serve to cause you problems.

Response by PO2 Paul Dempsey made Jun 27 at 2019 2:14 PM

PO2 Paul Dempsey — Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:14:09 -0400

Fair is not part of the issue. They signed a contract. If in area a combat area. Would you refuse a night patrol or day patrol because you carried out some earlier duties

Response by MAJ Keith FitzPatrick, CPIM, CSCP made Jun 27 at 2019 4:06 PM

MAJ Keith FitzPatrick, CPIM, CSCP — Thu, 27 Jun 2019 16:06:06 -0400

The simple answer is, “Go to PT.”

But to get beyond the simple answer, I need to ask two questions. First, is this a one-time occupancies? If not, why are you only getting 4 to 5 hours of sleep each night?

Personally, I retired in 2004 but I still run most mornings. I get to bed between 2300 and 0000 and have to get up at 0430 to run. I manage it at 58 years old.

Response by SFC John Fourquet made Jun 27 at 2019 6:57 PM

SFC John Fourquet — Thu, 27 Jun 2019 18:57:34 -0400

Stop whining & go to PT as ordered.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2019 9:23 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Jun 2019 09:23:36 -0400

Go to PT.

Response by SGT Juan Robledo made Jun 28 at 2019 2:13 PM

SGT Juan Robledo — Fri, 28 Jun 2019 14:13:42 -0400

Boo-Hoo get over it, your in the military and there's no room for cry babies, so put on your PT uniform and deal with it

Response by Brad Miller made Jun 29 at 2019 2:14 AM

Brad Miller — Sat, 29 Jun 2019 02:14:01 -0400

You work a 1600-0000 shift, so obviously 1600 formation is out.
Going off-shift at 0000 and needing to be in formation at 0530 does leave you with very little sleep time.
Two questions that (might!) be helpful -- (1) can you get some rack time during the day? Even an hour or two will help a lot. (2) How long is the 1600-0000 shift going to last? If it is a (relatively) short term thing, you might need to just suck it up and lay on the coffee.

Response by SFC Rollie Hubbard made Jun 29 at 2019 9:01 AM

SFC Rollie Hubbard — Sat, 29 Jun 2019 09:01:13 -0400

No suck it up and follow orders

Response by PV2 Duane Schlender made Jun 30 at 2019 12:05 PM

PV2 Duane Schlender — Sun, 30 Jun 2019 12:05:57 -0400

Try this on for size :
In 1999 I joined the Army. by 2000, my training was complete and I shipped to Germany with the 1/77 AR BN as a tank mechanic. For 8 months.. i worked from 4:45 A.M. until around midnight, plus CQ 24hr duty EVERY Friday/Saturday. Then came the training maneuvers where I became injured. I was posted on a road as a guard for hours at a time, then moved positions to work on tanks as needed. I worked on the 1st Sgt's Humvee his driver annihilated for 13 hours solid attempting to repair it (I succeeded). and immediately upon repairing it, had to help removing a flup pak form a damaged Abrams and repair it, where several quarts of toxic transmission fluid soaked my bdu uniform. Then had to go to a meeting where I was placed on a M88 crew as the ranking Abrams technician (I was an E2), where I was in charge of any Abrams (mechanically speaking) that I cam across. all told, in that exercise I had less sleep than you are getting for your "PT", I became injured (which eventually led to me being chaptered out of the service) and fixed 3 tanks injured.

If a scrawny E2 pissant like me can do all of that, I see no reason why you can't either. I would hate to hear your complaints from combat deployment. And, for the record... I was no star in physical training. I made basic training at 122Lbs (I am 5'8"), was put on extra rations, and STILL lost weight, leaving basic training (having to take the final PT test TWICE) at 117lbs. During my entire (and fairly short) career in the service, I never once got better than 60% on pushup, always ran about 15:45 on my pt run, and average about 70 situps.

Like I said, if my E2 imperfect self can do what I listed above, why can;t you? You joined the service for a reason. regardless of that reason, there is no way you can join a military and think "gee.. I'm going to sit down all day, drink beer, and sleep my way through until i can leave the service".

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Jul 1 at 2019 2:53 PM

SSgt Daniel d'Errico — Mon, 01 Jul 2019 14:53:45 -0400

First, you are whining. Second, you're in the ARMY NOW. Many soldiers pull guard duty, night shift and so on, and have to be doing PT at zero bright thirty. Being Air Force, I worked the 0001 to 0700 shift, had PT at 0730 many times. If I had CQ for the week (1600-0700) and PT at 0730, no excuse, I put on my sneakers and ran PT. You buy yourself an alarm clock with the most annoying alarm and set it to 30 minutes before PT formation forms up and show up for PT. Do your best to stay in formation, hope you buddies haven't just come from clubbing and hope that you'll be helped along, instead of helping them along.

Response by SGT Barbara Wilt made Jul 2 at 2019 8:12 PM

SGT Barbara Wilt — Tue, 02 Jul 2019 20:12:47 -0400

Talk to your ward master first no gripping just facts. And you can go back to bed afterwards. I worked 12 hour shifts and did PT on my days off with my CO’s full support.

Response by SGT Suzanne Zan Thornton made Jul 4 at 2019 9:38 AM

SGT Suzanne Zan Thornton — Thu, 04 Jul 2019 09:38:10 -0400

In 82 to 88, i whined about stuff in military but i'm am taken aback about this issue.
As an officer, even jr one, you have to set the example. As a leader in any business, we have to "suck the suck". Meaning?
I want be compassionate but say suck it up Officer. I was both enlisted and officer and ROTC. I'd wished i had done West Point or other. Point? You choose this careeer. No one gets much sleep in leadership, period.
I learned to function on less. Think of your service members- would they complain about this?
I'm now 57. I can imagine i thought.the.same complaint, but got over it.
Yes i agree folks need maximum sleep but actually some sleep deprivation helps depression and ptsd. Since your work is 2nd shift, why cant you.get a nap in?
I feel.like being Sargent Zan and saying, suck it up soilder.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2019 9:48 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Jul 2019 09:48:24 -0400

You suck it up and show up to PT.

Response by SSG Bryan Hollister made Jul 8 at 2019 7:01 PM

SSG Bryan Hollister — Mon, 08 Jul 2019 19:01:34 -0400

As a junior enlisted, you suck it up and get your butt to pt. End of discussion

Response by SFC Corey Julian made Jul 10 at 2019 2:29 PM

SFC Corey Julian — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 14:29:33 -0400

You go to PT. No reason not to. And you get to go home and sleep after.

Response by SFC James Lahtonen made Jul 11 at 2019 8:05 AM

SFC James Lahtonen — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 08:05:17 -0400

SPC Davis,"I don’t want to sound like I’m whining but at the same time it’s unfortunate that I have to explain to myself as to why this isn’t right." I will admit up front, that I have not worked in the medical field, most of my experience with the medical field has been with combat medics that try their damnedest to keep my wounded buddies and subordinates alive, and the trauma teams a the CASH. So with that in mind, it sounds to me like you are whining. As others have said, modify YOUR schedule and go to PT.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2019 2:05 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 12 Jul 2019 14:05:30 -0400

Many of the comments below are why junior enlisted soldiers don’t trust their leadership. And quite honestly if most of you were my leadership I wouldn’t follow you into a Chinese buffet if you were holding the gift cards.

The “just do what you’re told” mentality enables toxic leadership. It teaches those who are not yet leaders how to be toxic leaders. The soldier is not asking how to get out PT, the soldier is seeking advice on how to address her concerns to the chain of command to establish a more workable situation.

Far too many of you responded to the question with “look how tough I used to be” which is probably your default response to everything.

Military life sucks enough in ways we can’t control. Why are we telling this young soldier that is has to suck more in ways we CAN control?

What is the purpose of unit PT? To keep soldiers fit to fight and build esprit de corps. Can those goals be accomplished if the NCO’s on her shift conduct PT at another time? Yup.

Ultimately it is the commander’s decision, and the commander may stick to the decision already made. But what kind of leaders are we if we don’t voice our concerns to that commander to make the best possible situation for our soldiers?

“Suck it up” is why good troops don’t re-enlist or leave the military with problems. Or they turn into little balls of rage and resentment and insist everyone must suffer as they suffered because reasons.

Response by 1SG Ernest Stull made Jul 18 at 2019 7:55 AM

1SG Ernest Stull — Thu, 18 Jul 2019 07:55:48 -0400

As far as a regulation is concerned you need to look that up and also look at your command SOP covering shift work. It is obvious you are caught in a catch 22 situation.

Response by SFC Mike Taylor made Jul 21 at 2019 9:04 AM

SFC Mike Taylor — Sun, 21 Jul 2019 09:04:17 -0400

I can remember getting 11 hrs sleep in 7 days we were depoloyed of course but having been in units where an overnight shift was required the people know you must be at a morning formation but you should be released to do PT on your own, I agree if you dont like the need to show up you might want to get into a new job where you presence is not mandated. Good luck

Response by Maj Thor Hauff made Jul 23 at 2019 6:28 PM

Maj Thor Hauff — Tue, 23 Jul 2019 18:28:37 -0400

Ahhhh welcome to to the wonderful medical side of shift work. I worked 19:00-07:00 for over 10 years, but I loved night shift so would volunteer for it. Funny thing how me craving night shift looked to the command as an eager young officer "stepping up". It also helped that I was prior enlisted so I knew when they asked why. I replied with, "Ma'am I feel at my rank and experience level I would be better suited on the night shift where I can better develop my skillset while the higher officers can work during the day due to more facetime with command level and patient/family perception of a higher level officer corps when they are admitted to the hospital or come back from surgery."
To address your situation. It sucks and you embrace the suck. You must obey all lawful orders, however, it does not mean you cannot question orders after the fact. Any time you question an order it should follow a few simple guidelines. You should never offer a complaint without offering a solution. Your complaint and solution must have the mission first. Do not make it about personal preference or what is "fair" I am assuming a few things that you may have left out, but when you said only 5 people showed up for the 05:30 formation, The rest of the company was at the 16:00 formation? That would make sense. Anyone would rather do PT during work ours than at 05:30. The commander set up 2 times for formations due to shift work in the hospital. You are a shift worker and have a valid point of why the 05:30 formation is not optimal for you. Your chain of command does not stop at the first link. You present your case to your immediate supervisor and if you feel you are getting the "because I told you to" vibe with no other reason, then go to the 1SG and up until the commander is involved. Never jump the chain unless you notify the last link you left off at and also make damn sure you are attending those 05:30 formations while making your grievance noted. For official guidance. Look up: *ATP 6-22.5 A LEADER’S GUIDE TO SOLDIER HEALTH AND FITNESS
FEBRUARY 2016.

Response by PV2 Glen Lewis made Jul 24 at 2019 4:29 PM

PV2 Glen Lewis — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 16:29:58 -0400

Go to bed earlier.

Response by SFC Randy Hayes made Aug 5 at 2019 10:00 AM

SFC Randy Hayes — Mon, 05 Aug 2019 10:00:38 -0400

As a medic, we would rotate off of the line and do 90 day rotations at WAMC or the TMC at Bragg. When I worked the hospital 4-12 was my shift and my 1sg still made us come to PT. When we brought it up to him he SHOWED us the army reg that said SM's are only "Supposed" to have 4 hours of sleep in a 24 hour period. BUT...those hours dont even have to be consecutive. So yea dude youre screwed - just do the shit, build your character and get out and use your GI bill - to become a provider - like me. Airborne ATW - RLTW!

Response by MAJ Ed Taylor made Aug 5 at 2019 6:33 PM

MAJ Ed Taylor — Mon, 05 Aug 2019 18:33:53 -0400

Go to bed earlier.

Response by Capt Chuck Ward made Aug 8 at 2019 4:17 PM

Capt Chuck Ward — Thu, 08 Aug 2019 16:17:00 -0400

Do what your 1Sgt says, sonny!

Response by CDR Tom Davy made Aug 11 at 2019 10:09 AM

CDR Tom Davy — Sun, 11 Aug 2019 10:09:07 -0400

Shift workers should have shift PT. Discuss with your Chain-of-Command and recommend a different time for your PT.

Response by SPC Steven Nihipali made Aug 12 at 2019 4:41 AM

SPC Steven Nihipali — Mon, 12 Aug 2019 04:41:06 -0400

how about this... walk into 1SG office and tell him that you think it's fucked up that you have to do PT after your midnight rest of 5 hours has been interrupted... You also believe his reasonings to be offensive to the entire medical community as everyone who gets's off at midnight is now being inconvenienced... All while, tell 1SG straight up that you're no longer doing HIS PT program because you work in the medical field and know how stressful it is on the human body to force it to stresses beyond normal sleep patterns.

Response by MSG Tim Bertrand made Aug 14 at 2019 12:00 AM

MSG Tim Bertrand — Wed, 14 Aug 2019 00:00:09 -0400

The military is definitely not for you. You can't stop in the middle of combat to get your 8 hours sleep on your timeline. Never heard of such pettiness.

Response by Sgt Robert Gardner made Aug 14 at 2019 12:27 AM

Sgt Robert Gardner — Wed, 14 Aug 2019 00:27:12 -0400

You don’t solve the problem, you man up and deal with the PT, it’s part of the job, no pitiful excuses.

Response by SPC Steven Fowler made Aug 14 at 2019 7:35 AM

SPC Steven Fowler — Wed, 14 Aug 2019 07:35:16 -0400

You're incorrectly assuming that time to sleep is required to be provided during nighttime hours. You have all day to sleep. Tens of thousands of people (not just in the military) work mid-shifts and are able to figure it out. Why you think you're special? You're in the E4 Mafia....figure it out.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Aug 14 at 2019 4:23 PM

CSM Richard StCyr — Wed, 14 Aug 2019 16:23:54 -0400

See you at 0530. PT should be built into your training schedule, I see lots of sleep time available to you; 0030-0500 then 0730- 1500 plenty of down time to work out a rest cycle. Sections and units with 24 hour ops generally struggle with balancing PT and other mission requirements with rest cycles. That's why they as a general practice rotate sections through the different operation hours periodically to share the discomfort of the odd schedule.
You'll thank Top and the Old Man one day when you aren't fat and get a good PT score, all because they made you do PT.

Response by PO1 Michael Bruner made Aug 14 at 2019 4:38 PM

PO1 Michael Bruner — Wed, 14 Aug 2019 16:38:21 -0400

I'm ex-Navy, and I can't believe I'm reading this. I wanna laugh.

Response by SP5 Hugh Brown made Aug 14 at 2019 8:17 PM

SP5 Hugh Brown — Wed, 14 Aug 2019 20:17:25 -0400

WTF? Stay out of the damn club when you know you have PT the next day. Grow up buttercup.

Response by SGT Bob Knox made Aug 14 at 2019 9:33 PM

SGT Bob Knox — Wed, 14 Aug 2019 21:33:16 -0400

Sounds like he needs his safe space I did three tours in iraq getting the purple heart my last tour I don't want to hear it ....

Response by SPC Kyle Olson made Aug 15 at 2019 9:33 AM

SPC Kyle Olson — Thu, 15 Aug 2019 09:33:57 -0400

Stop being a pussy!

Response by SPC Dwight Turner made Aug 15 at 2019 7:53 PM

SPC Dwight Turner — Thu, 15 Aug 2019 19:53:08 -0400

it's part of being a soldier go ahead and do it !!!!! afterall what helps will keep you in shape it's part of training no matter what

Response by SSgt Scotty Marks made Aug 15 at 2019 10:12 PM

SSgt Scotty Marks — Thu, 15 Aug 2019 22:12:48 -0400

Hit the rack at the end of your shift, get up, go PT, go back to bed. Duh.

Response by SSG Robert Clark made Aug 16 at 2019 9:31 AM

SSG Robert Clark — Fri, 16 Aug 2019 09:31:29 -0400

Seriously? You have the opportunity for, up to a 4 or 5 hour nap before PT and a full nights sleep after PT! Here is your answer's, change into your PT uniform at 0001, take a nap, GO TO PT FORMATION at 0530, shower after PT, have fun off duty, sleep, back to the hospital for 1600. Lather, rinse, repeat. Oh, and pray you never get the chance to go to a leadership coarse like RANGER school where you may only get the opportunity for 2 - 3 hours rest in a 24 hour period and still need to be able to make viable decisions and lead troops. My advice is, finish your enlistment and ETS. Apparently you are not cut out for the military.

Response by 1SG Marshall Johnson made Aug 16 at 2019 10:23 AM

1SG Marshall Johnson — Fri, 16 Aug 2019 10:23:45 -0400

You have to make PT formation daily. Choose one of the two times and change your schedule to fit the times. I ran a HHB and had similar issues I just crushed the PSG when his soldiers failed then they all did PT with me.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2019 12:27 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Aug 2019 12:27:22 -0400

Is this a legitimate question or are you trying to gather some good material to use when you chew someone’s ass later in your career?

Response by SGT Mark Barner made Aug 16 at 2019 4:07 PM

SGT Mark Barner — Fri, 16 Aug 2019 16:07:46 -0400

There really is no issue and this is not something you have to "solve." You fall in and do your PT when you're told. The more difficult the circumstances, the harder you should go at it. In a line of work when you have to constantly be prepared, 5 hours of sleep can be a luxury.

Response by SP5 Osaremen Vanessa Cunningham-Alebiosu made Aug 16 at 2019 8:14 PM

SP5 Osaremen Vanessa Cunningham-Alebiosu — Fri, 16 Aug 2019 20:14:05 -0400

I'm with SFC Davila perhaps you should change careers!

Response by LTC Barry Hull made Aug 16 at 2019 9:21 PM

LTC Barry Hull — Fri, 16 Aug 2019 21:21:28 -0400

Soldier. You are whining. That is about the most trivial complaint I have ever heard. You are in the Army. Please tell me you are posting this as a joke.

Response by MSG Greg Kelly made Aug 17 at 2019 8:38 AM

MSG Greg Kelly — Sat, 17 Aug 2019 08:38:52 -0400

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2019 9:30 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 Aug 2019 21:30:36 -0400

SPC
I've been in the Army for 13 years with 6 of them being active. I understand what it is like to consistently work odd hours. It makes sense for you to be sleeping when you get off work in order to take care of personal matters when businesses are actually open. You're not going to pick up dry cleaning or go to the bank at 0200. There would be times I would be playing piano at the CG's house until 2300. By the time I packed up and drove home, I wasn't expected to be at an arbitrary PT formation. The Army schedules PT at that time for people who work daytime hours, not someone working 2nd shift.

The new command team is acting in traditional Army fashion, mass punishment. Your squad leader and platoon sergeant would hopefully advocate for you.

Come up with an alternate plan for those working 2nd shift. The Army has a log form you can fill out. The Army is moving to the ACFT so being in the gym is better than doing the bend and reach outside. State you will take a diagnostic in 60 to 90 days doing PT on your plan. If you fail...you're doing unit PT...if you are meeting the standard then continue. This could all be put in a formal counseling statement about what would be expected of you if the 1SG approves.

Response by SGT Christy Waterhouse made Aug 18 at 2019 1:04 PM

SGT Christy Waterhouse — Sun, 18 Aug 2019 13:04:44 -0400

Seriously you are apart of the Military. You are whining. You are fortunate enough to have an option.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2019 1:14 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 18 Aug 2019 13:14:48 -0400

The answer to this is Mission Command. The 1SG needs to build a cohesive team through mutual trust. This is where the supervisor/PSG has a talk with his Top about this shifts PT plan and gives him the PT plan that he will personally be involved in that takes place before the Individuals on that shift go to work call. There is no reason to micromanage everyone’s PT schedule when there is leadership between the command team and this SPC. That is the entire reason for mission command.

Response by LCDR Mike Morrissey made Aug 18 at 2019 1:20 PM

LCDR Mike Morrissey — Sun, 18 Aug 2019 13:20:41 -0400

If you think your situation is too hard and you want relief...jeez, I’m having a hard time remaining civil here... sure glad you didn’t join the Navy. One reason is your Chief Petty Office would have you for breakfast...and maybe a couple of other meals. Secondly, your fellow sailors with a little time in would ride you and probably give you a nickname until you proved your worth again. Third? Good luck on further advancement.

What any enlisted or officer quickly learns is that their first few yrs (with a few exceptions) determine promotions and assignments.

In other words, suck it up, your in the big leagues now. Your in a very dangerous occupation and can be sent to places most would never send their worst enemy...well maybe second worst. There is no choice once you signed that contract.

Think of the ones on Normandy, Iwo, Hue.

Response by SGT Christopher Bean made Aug 18 at 2019 2:01 PM

SGT Christopher Bean — Sun, 18 Aug 2019 14:01:16 -0400

If you can’t make an 0530 muster for PT, how in the world did you make it through Basic and AIT? I can remember having to prep for inspection, square my belongings away, launder my BDU’s, prepare for next rotation, fill out request for TDY’s and still maintain an 0500 muster for PT, ON ZERO sleep! Sometimes that is the life of E-1 through E-4 soldiers! Just deal!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2019 4:18 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 18 Aug 2019 16:18:58 -0400

Good evening SPC Ashley D, there is nothing to solve. I understand what you are saying 100% but you have to look at the big picture. The big picture is, they don't want to chapter you guys out for failing 2 consecutive APFT..... I truly believe the new chain put a lot of thought and consideration to the directive they gave and have you guys best interest at heart. Remember back in basic training you never received 8 solid/ continuous hours of sleep. I understand you work the 1600-0000 shift, but if you manage your time, you still can get up to 11 or 12 hours of total sleep despite doing PT at 0530..... the only other option is to score 300 on the APFT, then you don't have to be out there at 0530.........

Response by SPC Mark Stevens made Aug 18 at 2019 7:41 PM

SPC Mark Stevens — Sun, 18 Aug 2019 19:41:23 -0400

As a commander's driver during my first tour in Germany, I often got short sleep while still being required to deal with ALL company functions, including the dreaded PT formation (while carrying the company colors, no less). Make the formation, and get your sleep AFTER the formation. You have plenty of time before and after the scheduled time to take care of personal business, so bone up on your time management skills. Hooah!

Response by Cpl Alex Moore made Aug 18 at 2019 8:40 PM

Cpl Alex Moore — Sun, 18 Aug 2019 20:40:20 -0400

I used to work assistant duty in the barracks and the NCO working duty would then let me off early enough to be at PT, sometimes without sleep. That is the job, there isn't a solution, you joined the military so do your job. Putting that aside, as an NCO, I would stand duty for 24 hours sometimes with no sleep, and have to report for an entire days worth of work. Again, that is the job, do your job. There is a purpose to this requirement. The war in 2003 saw many of the Marines invading Iraq awak for 3 or 4 or more days on only a few hours of sleep. They had to function that way. You train like you fight.

Response by SGT Tim Fletcher made Aug 18 at 2019 9:02 PM

SGT Tim Fletcher — Sun, 18 Aug 2019 21:02:03 -0400

As a young enlisted man I would regularly close down the club at 0200 and be up and out on the PT field in time for 0600 start....and perform with the best. As a 40+ I would work 14 hour shifts on security duty and were expected to follow that up with PT before going home for a nap before having to be back a few hours later for security forces training. Granted I got used to performing well on 4 hours or less in basic training though:))

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2019 10:24 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 18 Aug 2019 22:24:37 -0400

Kilos, I did my time on mids at a hospital so I know what you are going through, but check this you are on a fixed schedule with no field, no motor pool, and little to no details. Trust me things can be worse but wait your turn for 1st ot 3rd. I lived your life for 14 months and got through it just fine.

And also I’m sure since you are wearing the MEDCOM patch your 1SG is dealing with a ton of ABCP and APFT failures, that’s why he is making it mandatory

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2019 6:00 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 19 Aug 2019 06:00:41 -0400

Suck it up there princess and do it. New soldiers these days cry about everything.

Response by PO3 Kenneth Greiner made Aug 19 at 2019 7:04 AM

PO3 Kenneth Greiner — Mon, 19 Aug 2019 07:04:16 -0400

Man up!!

Response by SPC Kenneth Fordham made Aug 19 at 2019 10:52 AM

SPC Kenneth Fordham — Mon, 19 Aug 2019 10:52:33 -0400

There is a chain of command for a reason. Stop thinking and do what they say.

Response by SPC Mark Stevens made Aug 19 at 2019 10:55 AM

SPC Mark Stevens — Mon, 19 Aug 2019 10:55:32 -0400

SPC Davis, I am having trouble seeing why you can't get enough sleep. There is plenty of time after PT formation and before the start of your next duty shift to get at least 7 hours of sleep, and time between the end of your shift and PT to get other things done. Perhaps if we knew more about what your total day looks like?

Response by SPC Martin Kamm made Aug 19 at 2019 11:41 AM

SPC Martin Kamm — Mon, 19 Aug 2019 11:41:41 -0400

As former junior enlisted in a hospital unit myself, I can honestly sympathize with your feeling of being "stuck." This is usually the case. In my view, the most effective and professional thing you can do is make the necessary adjustments with yourself to optimize your time. That way, you can make your handling of a tough situation a point of pride. This will also help you prepare for the conditions if your unit is deployed, which will have even less respect for your personal sleep habits.

Response by SPC Steve Bryant made Aug 19 at 2019 12:54 PM

SPC Steve Bryant — Mon, 19 Aug 2019 12:54:03 -0400

You can work in a hospital on the civilian side of things making much more, with better benefits and the ability to utilize your time off as you see fit. Take the advice of the E-7s telling you to get out if it isn't your thing. Only a few more years until your contract is up. You aren't ate up. You want decent working conditions. Retention starts within the army.

You aren't choosing the late shift, you chose your profession in the army medical field, and to volunteer years of your life in hopes of making the world better. I had a 94 ASVAB score, didn't have any slots open for geospatial intel for two years, though the army showed a need for it, got out, learned to fly helicopters, and got a couple of Associates degrees and a GIS certificate. I now work 4 tens making maps for a small water company, with great benefits for myself and family. I get PT in by improving my acreage, and love three day weekends.

Just hooah when the army says hooah, and move on when your contract is up. You seem like a bright kid, even asking for advice here as a junior enlisted. Thank you for your service.

Response by SSG Lauro Jimenez made Aug 19 at 2019 12:58 PM

SSG Lauro Jimenez — Mon, 19 Aug 2019 12:58:56 -0400

The military by law are allowed to let you get ay least 4 hrs sleep and one hot meal. Suck it up! This new army is weak. Sorry I'm retired and all I hear is a bunch of whining.

Response by Sgt Chris Hunt made Aug 19 at 2019 6:41 PM

Sgt Chris Hunt — Mon, 19 Aug 2019 18:41:52 -0400

Well it's been two months since this was posted; how did you resolve it? My thoughts would be personal time 00:00-05:30, PT till 06:30 then sleep away till 14:30. And if only 5 people in a company came for PT I'd expect there to be some other changes also going to be happening.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2019 6:55 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 19 Aug 2019 18:55:45 -0400

4-5 hours! That was about the MAXIMUM sleep I ever got. I'd have to say you need to buck up and do as instructed by the Top.

Response by SPC James Seigars made Aug 19 at 2019 10:18 PM

SPC James Seigars — Mon, 19 Aug 2019 22:18:24 -0400

As both a junior enlisted and a NCO I had plenty of days I only slept only 3-4 hours as others have said they do/did (once my commander & I only had one hour of sleep in three days and still did everything everyone else did). There is no reason for you to not do PT unless you have something medically preventing you from doing any/all of the required exercises. You could sleep 8-3, get up, have a quick breakfast, get dressed for & go to work, eat lunch at work, get off, change into civics/sweats and have a light dinner, watch some tv, pay bills online, etc. then change into pt’s, go to training, take a shower when done, go to sleep and start again the next day.

Response by SGT Kevin Dorsey made Aug 19 at 2019 10:29 PM

SGT Kevin Dorsey — Mon, 19 Aug 2019 22:29:33 -0400

Is this a joke? Suck it up and do as you are ordered to do. With that attitude you will never become more than a Jr. enlisted.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2019 12:38 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Aug 2019 12:38:57 -0400

First, absent excusal or exemption,you have to go to PT as directed, even if you're only going to get 4-5 hours of sleep.

That said, it is an unwise way to have a unit accomplish effective physical training and maximize performance from your troops, to not take into account swing shift duty troops. It also doesn't consider troop welfare, especially given that you can obviously do PT on an adjusted schedule that allows for adequate rest. You need to communicate your obvious and reasonable concern to your FLL and let him or her know that it needs to be addressed. If it isn't, you should 100% use your open door policy, and speak with the Company Commander, but ensure you communicate to your FLL that you are going to exercise that option if he is unable to help you get a solution.

If you were going to be limited to 5 hours of sleep because of your off-duty activities, like a second job or because you were out drinking, that would be on you. If the army is requiring you to regularly be on duty until 0000, your leadership needs to find a way to get you adequate rest periods between duty. The human body needs more sleep for quality decision making and optimal performance, as well as physical and mental health.

Response by PO3 Charles Streich made Aug 20 at 2019 2:36 PM

PO3 Charles Streich — Tue, 20 Aug 2019 14:36:15 -0400

Near the end of my tour in Vietnam, if you were in camp it was 12hours work, 12 guard duty on the wire, 12 work and then you could sleep or try to sleep. Repeat!

Response by Sgt Edward Allen made Aug 20 at 2019 3:11 PM

Sgt Edward Allen — Tue, 20 Aug 2019 15:11:24 -0400

Sorry to sound un-sympathetic, but suck it up buttercup!

The fact that you are whining about this tells me that you have led too soft a life while in the service,

It was routine for me and those I served with to run Pt with little or no sleep. Try going 5 days with only about 1 hour of sleep per night and then running 6 miles. No, we weren't infantry, so I can't speak to what my grunt counter parts went through, but I'm assuming they had it a bit tougher than I did. We were computer programmers and operators, so we had shift workers as well.

Perform your responsibilities as the duty driver, duty NCO or assistant duty for 24 hours, then go run your 3-6 miles and enjoy the half day off starting at noon.

Life is hard, but should you ever have to go into a combat zone, it will be much harder. If you can't handle it now, get out. Remember, you volunteered for this life. Nobody forced you to join the army. Complete your tour of duty with honor and quit yer bitchin'!

Response by CW4 John Soto made Aug 20 at 2019 6:53 PM

CW4 John Soto — Tue, 20 Aug 2019 18:53:57 -0400

I got to ask how or why your even in the mitary. Do you get rest breaks in war by the enemy because you didn't get your beauty sleep. This is what's wrong with our military today. My suggestion to you is you either Soldier up or get out and work at Arby's.

Response by COL Cedrick Farrior made Aug 20 at 2019 8:54 PM

COL Cedrick Farrior — Tue, 20 Aug 2019 20:54:22 -0400

This sounds like a safety issue. If you’re coming off duty at a late hour then it looks like the leadership might need to look at the schedule. There is a requirement to be fit but the safety has to be ensured as well. Getting off duty after midnight and being in formation less than six hours later doesn’t pass the safety requirements. You should express your concerns with your chain of command. Use the open door policy as you work your way up the chain starting with your first line supervisor.

Response by MSG William Hesser made Aug 21 at 2019 11:50 PM

MSG William Hesser — Wed, 21 Aug 2019 23:50:05 -0400

You are to be physically qualified at all times. You can get out of shape in less than a week. It can take up to 3 weeks of regular exercise to get back into shape.
Therefore you are subject to a regiment of PT to maintain your physical condition to be proficient in our jobs.
In the Airborne we were subject to taking a PT test at anytime and if we couldn't pass we would be pulled off jump status.
As SFC Davila has indicated, if you can't deal with it with only 4-hours sleep, then you need to look for another profession. This is truly a profound comment. The Military has no room for 'snibblers'.
Remember the Army promises only up to 4-hours rest per day, and I was told that they could give it to me in 15 minute blocks which happened more often than I want to think about.

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made Aug 22 at 2019 4:41 AM

CW4 Craig Urban — Thu, 22 Aug 2019 04:41:06 -0400

Go to the IG. Or open door to the company commander first.

Response by CPO William Slifko made Aug 25 at 2019 7:46 PM

CPO William Slifko — Sun, 25 Aug 2019 19:46:09 -0400

If you're getting 4 or 5 hours sleep, you're one of the lucky ones. Lots of people get even less due to work schedules and other requirements. Even when not required I regularly slept for 4 hours, 5 on occasion, and got up for the purpose of exercising. This was all before retiring more than 20 years ago. I still only get 4 or 5 a night but I don't run any longer, I walk my dogs. Everyone goes through periods of what you're complaining about. Eventually it'll be someone else's turn to be inconvenienced by a little lack of sleep.

Response by SFC Kenneth G. made Aug 29 at 2019 9:57 PM

SFC Kenneth G. — Thu, 29 Aug 2019 21:57:46 -0400

Maybe you should go to the 1SG and ask if you can do PT from 1430 to 1530 so you will have time to get ready for shift at 1600.

Response by SPC Brian Stephens made Aug 31 at 2019 10:48 PM

SPC Brian Stephens — Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:48:48 -0400

Sleep after PT. In my day, everybody formed up at 0600 for Battery PT unless you had the duty.

Response by CW2 Donald Loughrey made Sep 6 at 2019 9:48 AM

CW2 Donald Loughrey — Fri, 06 Sep 2019 09:48:13 -0400

The PT Program is the 1SG's Program. If you have a legitimate reason to gripe although you have a choice of two separate PT formations you can make, then use the NCO Chain of Command. There are a lot of heated comments on here but I'll defer to a comment I heard back when I was on Active Duty (yes I have achieved the status of "old Soldier" as I entered the Army in 1974), "Its the ARMY, its supposed to Suck sometimes!" Having four or fiver hours of sleep before doing PT won't kill you. Its all part of the life. Shift work is its own animal but Soldiers have been dealing with shift work in a lot of disciplines (MP, Intel in Field Stations etc) for a loooonnnggg time. Deal with it and take comfort that "This too, shall Pass". The new PT Test sounds pretty challenging. Its the 1SGs job ot make sure you pass it....or at least have a fighting chance.

Response by PO3 Joseph Mcleod made Sep 8 at 2019 12:33 AM

PO3 Joseph Mcleod — Sun, 08 Sep 2019 00:33:50 -0400

When on deployment as a hospital corpsman, i did not have a shift, my duty was 24-7 and my marines health and welfare was first and foremost. Many a night was spent caring for injured and sick individuals. Pt helps to build the strength you will need to carry your comrades and builds the warrior ethos that will help you to fight when necessary to protect those who are injured.

Response by PO2 Rodolfo Arvizu made Sep 11 at 2019 12:28 PM

PO2 Rodolfo Arvizu — Wed, 11 Sep 2019 12:28:11 -0400

Stop being a little bitch.

Response by PO2 Rodolfo Arvizu made Sep 11 at 2019 12:28 PM

PO2 Rodolfo Arvizu — Wed, 11 Sep 2019 12:28:38 -0400

Wow you are a little bitch.

Response by SPC Earl Semler made Sep 12 at 2019 8:35 PM

SPC Earl Semler — Thu, 12 Sep 2019 20:35:14 -0400

Get up go to PT then take a nap. When on perimeter guard in NAM we went from 6pm-to 6am at 50% then went to our gun trucks an gun jeeps and worked till 5 and back to the perimeter. were assigned for 2 weeks at a time.

Response by CSM William Payne made Sep 15 at 2019 10:02 PM

CSM William Payne — Sun, 15 Sep 2019 22:02:23 -0400

Your Company Commander and First Sergeant sound like they have come from line units without previous experience with multi shift Soldiers. Good leadership adopts, it’s not one size fits all. Just because you can doesn’t always mean you should. This is a good way to alienate young Soldiers. I’ve seen this before. You are in a tough spot.

Why is there a 1600 PT session, who attends that?

Is there a 3rd Shift or 0000 to 0800?

When I was on active duty, I worked your same shift as a computer operator. Our scheduled PT time was 1400. That gave us hygiene time then do shift changeover before 1600.

How many Soldiers staff that same shift with you?

Is this a suggestion that you can bring up with your first line supervisor as a compromise?

Working that shift is not an excuse for not participating in PT. You need to participate.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2019 6:21 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 22 Sep 2019 18:21:53 -0400

SPC Davis you volunteered for this you signed a blank check to include your life that you would serve and die for this country. Either learn to deal with it or get out stop being a snow flake you are expected to preform pt with your unit and have been given a choice of 2 times to do so there are moss's that during the training phase you might only get 10 to 15 minutes sleep as you are being trained to work in adverse conditions and expected to adapt if not you will be washed out. Live with your choice of military life or get out grow up. the solution to your problem is you learning how allocate your time properly not the Army making special accommodations for you.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2019 9:15 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Sep 2019 09:15:33 -0400

Go to PT... if you cannot function on 4 to 5 hours sleep find another profession... combat shows no mercy and you have to maintain patient safety in a combat hospital with limited sleep... if you cannot do it here hard to think you can do it when necessary to save Soldiers in combat... if military life is not for you that is fine... thank you for your service... however it is time to find something more suited to your sleep schedule and personnel choices... one of those values is selfless service where you put the needs of the command, the service, and others over yourself... not self service...

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2019 10:01 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Sep 2019 10:01:31 -0400

Unbelievable

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2019 11:23 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Sep 2019 11:23:34 -0400

Bring it up to your first line supervisor. If they can't resolve it for you, then suck it up! Welcome to the Army :)

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2019 12:04 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Sep 2019 12:04:03 -0400

Embrace the suck while you solve the problem.

Response by MSG William Weatherell made Sep 23 at 2019 3:59 PM

MSG William Weatherell — Mon, 23 Sep 2019 15:59:32 -0400

Poor baby, you want the mess sgt to bring you lunch? You need to go to PT.

Response by PO2 Cecil Renfroe made Sep 23 at 2019 4:27 PM

PO2 Cecil Renfroe — Mon, 23 Sep 2019 16:27:48 -0400

Pretty simple. Get up and go to PT.

Response by SSgt L Moore made Sep 24 at 2019 1:32 AM

SSgt L Moore — Tue, 24 Sep 2019 01:32:29 -0400

Lets just start with the service you're in probably sucks. It doesn't make any sense youre working a swing shift but your command is demanding you show up to a mandatory PT session 5 hours later? Why is there not another PT session to accommodate those that arent on a day shift? Why wouldnt you have PT closer to the time you start because I bet there are minimal complaints for the guys that either work at somewhere between 0600-0800. Hell might be included into their work day knowing the Army. I highly suggest you bring this up but work it up the chain. A lot of idiots are going to tell you to suck it up, when I was coming up, etc bs. You'd really be surprised how many people within your chain that can help and I guarantee someone higher ranking feels the same way you do.its just easier to get things done when you have a majority rule. Worst that can happen is they tell you no or explain to them that it work for better for everyone if either they add a PT slot closer to your work start time or they could move you to a shift closer to the mandated PT shift they already have.

Response by SGT Sam Decker made Sep 24 at 2019 9:12 AM

SGT Sam Decker — Tue, 24 Sep 2019 09:12:20 -0400

Having worked odd hours in a hospital, I can understand your concerns. In my experience, Big Army is not going to change policies to accommodate one Soldier. That said, you mentioned your entire section is on the samue shift. My suggestion would be to approach your PSG or equivalent and see if they would be willing to approach the command about having your entire shift, as a team, conduct organized PT either just before or just after your shift is complete. I'm assuming the commander's intent is to maintain organized PT to ensure fitness, readiness, and accountability. This suggestion would meet all that criteria. Remember, any time you bring a problem to your leadership, ALWAYS bring a solution as well. I can't promise they will agree to it, but it is a reasonable request and the worst they can say is "no". Just remember to be tactful, polite, and professional. I would also recommend bringing it up first with your peers and make it a team effort. This makes it a group issue, rather than an individual one.

Response by SGT Gabriel Brown made Sep 24 at 2019 9:35 AM

SGT Gabriel Brown — Tue, 24 Sep 2019 09:35:07 -0400

You are junior enlisted. Go to McDonald and get a straw so that you can suck it the fuck up. Unless the order is an unlawful one then you are sworn to follow the orders given. This is one of the many problems that the army has created for itsself: lack of good order and discipline. It's one of the biggest differences that I noticed when I switched from Marine Corps infantry to army infantry. Did we have to do dumb shit that was inconvenient and blatantly stupid in the Marine Corps? Of course we did. Were we happy about it? Absolutely not, and we bitched and griped AMONGST OUR PEERS. Those NCOs and Staff NCOs weren't blind to what was going on, and did what they could to fix it, as that's their job. I learned from it, remembered it, and then when I became an NCO did all that I could to mitigate it from happening to my soldiers.

That's what you need to do: your job. For some reason the latest generation of soldiers seem to think that their job is simply their mos related tasks during business hours, or during "shifts" like a civilian job. Incorrect. Right now your job is to get your ass up and be in PT formation. Your job is to carry out the plan of the day as outlined by your chain of command. Do that. You belong to the Army 24/7, and are granted daily liberty periods. Remember that.

By all means remember this fuckery, and perhaps use it as a reminder in the future when you are in a position to do something about it. But for now, you are not. So take it as a character building experience and drive on.

Whatever you do, do not, DO NOT be that guy. Stay in your lane, keep in mind that your NCOs and Staff NCOs are tracking, realize that it isn't forever, learn from it, and carry on. It's too easy.

Response by SGT Iturner795 . made Sep 24 at 2019 1:19 PM

SGT Iturner795 . — Tue, 24 Sep 2019 13:19:58 -0400

Feel lucky that you are getting a very reasonable 4-5 hours of sleep per night. If you were in the Infantry you would be working much more with the same amount of sleep and showing up at PT every morning. Suck it up buttercup.

Response by SSG Robert Foreman made Sep 25 at 2019 1:17 AM

SSG Robert Foreman — Wed, 25 Sep 2019 01:17:29 -0400

You get your sorry butt up and pt like you are told. Good lord what has happened to our military.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2019 8:40 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Sep 2019 08:40:12 -0400

I've had the pleasure of working in the S-1 as a 42A when I was a private. I was up from 5am until the next morning 230am either driving around Wisconsin to Illinois is and back up to fort mccoy, and then doing in-processing for the convoys. I went to bed at 230/3 and up at 5 with the rest of the group. I was tired and didn't feel well at all, but

Response by CWO2 Shelby DuBois made Sep 25 at 2019 12:07 PM

CWO2 Shelby DuBois — Wed, 25 Sep 2019 12:07:39 -0400

Yes... Go to your CSM's office....lay on the floor outside his door and roll around on the floor...hit the floor with your hands ...not too hard, since it might hurt.... but cry if you can.... Then if that don't work, go to your local veteran hospital and ask anyone there how they cope with hardships.

Response by SPC Jimmy Rooks I made Sep 25 at 2019 1:53 PM

SPC Jimmy Rooks I — Wed, 25 Sep 2019 13:53:11 -0400

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but lack of sleep is par for the course in the military! "Suck it up, snowflake" as they told us when I was in!

Response by PO2 Floyd Green made Sep 25 at 2019 3:17 PM

PO2 Floyd Green — Wed, 25 Sep 2019 15:17:56 -0400

Wow, this is really a question? Sorry dude, there were nights when I went on watch at 10:00PM, and got off at 6:00AM with enough time to change into PT gear, PT and then go back on duty following PT all day.

This was a regular occurrence, I am not sure if expectations have changed, but 4 to 5 hours of sleep was considered enough to participate not only in PT but an additional 12 - 16 hours of duty.

Response by SFC John Fourquet made Sep 25 at 2019 3:26 PM

SFC John Fourquet — Wed, 25 Sep 2019 15:26:38 -0400

First of all you are whining. 2d you can adjust to this w/o complaints and you will find you will do just fine w/ 5 hours sleep and a power nap before your shift. If you cannot adjust to the 1SG PT schedule try transferring to an infantry unit. No shift work there and no room for whiners. In other words such it up and stop complaining.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2019 3:46 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Sep 2019 15:46:47 -0400

Show up and do the PT. After a few weeks, ask to speak to the top about it. Do not complain.

Response by MSgt Michael Madden made Sep 25 at 2019 6:06 PM

MSgt Michael Madden — Wed, 25 Sep 2019 18:06:39 -0400

You resolve this problem by going to PT. This is the military not a civilian job.

Response by SGM Thomas Adderley made Sep 26 at 2019 7:40 AM

SGM Thomas Adderley — Thu, 26 Sep 2019 07:40:10 -0400

What 'isn't right' is your complaining and 'whining' about it. You sound like a 'mommas boy' whose 'molly-coddled a__ should do a few tours in a field hospital in the middle east. When your time is up get out of my Army

Response by CPT Richard Boye made Sep 29 at 2019 7:24 AM

CPT Richard Boye — Sun, 29 Sep 2019 07:24:41 -0400

It does sound unreasonable. However, if you were in combat you would be lucky to get 4 hours of sleep. I was the XO of Co. A, 205th Medical BN. My unit was deployed to OIF 1 ( 2003 - 2004 ). So I am speaking from experience. My days were from 0500 to 2300 Hours every day for over a year. It is the pace required to get the job done. Your platoon sergeant and platoon leader should be aware of your schedule. I would use your chain of command to voice your concerns.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 2 at 2019 8:24 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Oct 2019 20:24:51 -0400

As an E3 in the 80s, we would party all night and still make the first formation. Remember propping,and getting propped up and shaving whoever was still too inebriated to trust with a razor. Then pt and we PTed and puked till it was over. Just getting the poison out. Best thing to do is deal with it. I made the choice to party knowing the consequences. And , I survived. No sympathy here

Response by SGT Jack Stevens made Oct 6 at 2019 3:37 PM

SGT Jack Stevens — Sun, 06 Oct 2019 15:37:52 -0400

Army regs only state that your command only needs to give you 4 1/2 hours of sleep during a 24 hour day. If you are working that schedule. There should be a alternate pt/work call formation, that is held. Every workday.

Response by LCpl Cody Collins made Oct 10 at 2019 5:04 AM

LCpl Cody Collins — Thu, 10 Oct 2019 05:04:46 -0400

Uh you do as your told and go, Problem solved .

Response by SPC Robert Bobo made Oct 10 at 2019 5:30 PM

SPC Robert Bobo — Thu, 10 Oct 2019 17:30:19 -0400

What you learn to handle now will prepare you for the future challenges you will face in the military or cilivian world, prior to my retirement , I was a Sr. Vice President at the national level, I can't tell you how many times a weak manager on my team would "fold" in a crises, unfortunately there lack of commitment would not be apparent until there's a serious issue requiring there total commitment, these people eventaully show who they really are in terms of work ethic and they never advance to the highest levels of the organization , in fact many end up stagnating in lower tier roles. Your background, training , experience and education will only take you so far , work ethic is critical, example I had two experienced and educated people with impressive backgrounds, they held 100k sr.manager level positions in two different states, we had crises in there AO , both Sr. Managers "FOLDED" and couldn't be reached by their staff , the situations were elevated to me for immediate action and I had to pull and deploy Sr. Managers from other states to handle the situation. Both these weak leaders wouldn't answer email,cell phone or text for almost a week , claiming serious personal issues, they both lost all credibility with there hundreds of employees and our customers, after that event they both have plenty of time off to focus on personal issues

Response by SSG Dale London made Oct 18 at 2019 10:30 PM

SSG Dale London — Fri, 18 Oct 2019 22:30:13 -0400

I hate to sound insensitive but, well, maybe I am a little. Crap is one of the things we get to enjoy as a perk of our service to Uncle Sugar. As my old PSG used to say, "Embrace the suck."

Response by SSG Jeffery Payne made Oct 21 at 2019 11:21 PM

SSG Jeffery Payne — Mon, 21 Oct 2019 23:21:18 -0400

Suck it up buttercup. Your a soldier first then what ever your MOS is. The life of a soldier is not always a easy one. See you are using your civilian thinking to deal with a military problem. Remember you a a soldier first. If you're not in shape and the balloon goes up. You are screwed. Everyone is a 11B (grunt) if you are overrun.

Response by CPL Joseph Langone made Oct 28 at 2019 11:21 AM

CPL Joseph Langone — Mon, 28 Oct 2019 11:21:36 -0400

Suck it up and do as your told. Mom can not help you. For Gods sake GROW UP.

Response by CPL Joseph Langone made Oct 28 at 2019 11:22 AM

CPL Joseph Langone — Mon, 28 Oct 2019 11:22:48 -0400

Suck it up and do as your told. Mom can not help you. For Gods sake GROW UP

Response by SGT Edward Thomas made Oct 28 at 2019 11:46 AM

SGT Edward Thomas — Mon, 28 Oct 2019 11:46:37 -0400

I would suggest quit whining and go to PT. Only 4-5 hrs of sleep? I love that luxury. Deployed we never got more than 2-3 hours of sleep
At night or day depending on shift we worked. Plus we were expected to do PT on our own and pass PT tests.

Response by 1SG J. Shannon Lewis made Oct 28 at 2019 2:30 PM

1SG J. Shannon Lewis — Mon, 28 Oct 2019 14:30:47 -0400

Try scoring 270 or above on APFT and see if that'll give you some bargaining power

Response by PO2 Robert Comegys made Oct 28 at 2019 7:41 PM

PO2 Robert Comegys — Mon, 28 Oct 2019 19:41:49 -0400

Join your company and get it done.

Response by SGT Jose Perdelia-Torres made Oct 28 at 2019 10:28 PM

SGT Jose Perdelia-Torres — Mon, 28 Oct 2019 22:28:44 -0400

This site is so damn cool....wish I had it as a Private. Everyone's messages have rung true this far....you have to employ time management and make sure you are performing at your best and are getting sleep, until the 1sg changes his orders. A combat deployment is going to be more demanding than what you're describing. And once you become a team leader and start earning chevron's, it will only get more demanding- and rewarding. You must develop the intestinal fortitude needed to execute any moral order or standard operating procedure to a level of excellence worthy of emulation.

Believe in yourself, learn and grow. Don't complain and demonstrate why you should be in the world's greatest Army. It's a privilege and an honor to be employed in the Army if out Nation!

Start focusing on how you spend and manage your time both off and on the clock. Become the standard!

Response by SFC Tracy Donahoo made Oct 29 at 2019 11:03 AM

SFC Tracy Donahoo — Tue, 29 Oct 2019 11:03:42 -0400

You suck it up and go to PT!

How is this even a question?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2019 1:03 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 Oct 2019 13:03:57 -0400

I am confused by many of the responses. If I understand the issue the alternate PT time is a no go 16:00 is his shift start time so it really is not an option. And to compare staying out all night and partying is not the same as work. Yes "Ranger Up" is always the appropriate response for situations this is not one of the scenarios. The PT schedule is obviously set for day timers, not jobs that have "shift work". The solution is obvious like mentioned earlier by the Chief they should walk over to the MP station and use the PT schedule the Law and Order Units use and problem solved. There are three shifts and there are 3 PT times.

Response by SA Matthew Lewis made Oct 29 at 2019 5:37 PM

SA Matthew Lewis — Tue, 29 Oct 2019 17:37:59 -0400

OMG how are you even in the military? dont they teach discipline and self responsibility anymore?
YOU went out. YOUR choice. YOU knew you had to work in the morning. YOU need to act like a grown up and a RESPONSIBLE military member. not a spoiled high school kid. try this solution... DONT GO OUT TO THE CLUB ALL NIGHT WHEN YOU HAVE TO WORK THE NECT DAY. In my day, if you went out and couldn't handle the responsibility you swore to upon enlistment, you would be in front of the CO.

Response by SGT Felicia King made Oct 29 at 2019 9:17 PM

SGT Felicia King — Tue, 29 Oct 2019 21:17:00 -0400

Seriously? This better be a prank post. You do the pt with the company and then you’re off till your next shift. What the heck is the issue?

Response by SGT Teddy Chaney made Oct 29 at 2019 9:34 PM

SGT Teddy Chaney — Tue, 29 Oct 2019 21:34:47 -0400

Unless you pulled an overnight duty that would be the only excuse for not doing PT at 0530. If you can’t function on 5 hours of sleep you might want to reconsider your career choices and hope like crazy that you don’t get deployed. We used to go several days at a time with less than 2-3 hours of nap time per day.

Response by MSgt Chandos Clapper made Oct 29 at 2019 10:53 PM

MSgt Chandos Clapper — Tue, 29 Oct 2019 22:53:43 -0400

Talk with your NCOIC.

Response by CMSgt Lloyd French made Oct 30 at 2019 1:15 AM

CMSgt Lloyd French — Wed, 30 Oct 2019 01:15:32 -0400

If you work until midnight, then go to the 0530 PT session. You'll be so tired afterwards, you'll have no problem getting to sleep at 0800. Then you get 7 hours of sleep (not 4 or 5) and all is good until this policy is changed to something a bit more flexible...like having one extra PT muster for mid-shift workers and night-owls added to the policy.

Response by CMSgt Lloyd French made Oct 30 at 2019 1:18 AM

CMSgt Lloyd French — Wed, 30 Oct 2019 01:18:26 -0400

SOLUTION: Go to the 0530 PT session. Go home and go to bed. You'll get 7 hours of sleep before you have to report for your 1600-0000 shift...not 4 or 5. Keep this up until someone with a little common sense realized that they need a third PT session specifically for mid-shift workers and night-owls.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 30 at 2019 7:03 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Oct 2019 07:03:25 -0400

Go as ordered snowflake. You're with the big boys now. NO WAY OUT. Following orders is expected. Did you learn nothing in basic?

Response by COL Charles Williams made Oct 30 at 2019 7:26 AM

COL Charles Williams — Wed, 30 Oct 2019 07:26:02 -0400

You do what you are told... that is how.

Response by SP5 Ed Nolan made Oct 30 at 2019 7:47 AM

SP5 Ed Nolan — Wed, 30 Oct 2019 07:47:18 -0400

WOW............things have certainly changed since my time in service. If Top "desires" you to be at PT at 0530, your ass better be there, no exceptions, none. That included all personnel, including every officer and every platoon sergeant. There was never an alternate time do do PT. If 5 people showed up out of a company of about 120 soldiers, he would've lost his freakin mind. Yep, things have certainly changed.

Response by MSgt David Harrison made Oct 30 at 2019 12:00 PM

MSgt David Harrison — Wed, 30 Oct 2019 12:00:59 -0400

You already sound like you're wining. You girls at the hospital don't know how good you got it.

Response by SGT Mike Churchill made Oct 30 at 2019 6:54 PM

SGT Mike Churchill — Wed, 30 Oct 2019 18:54:29 -0400

You "solve" it by going to PT formation as you were told

Response by SN Jeffrey White made Oct 30 at 2019 7:33 PM

SN Jeffrey White — Wed, 30 Oct 2019 19:33:51 -0400

Sleep after PFT instead of before.

Response by MGySgt Rick Tyrrell made Oct 30 at 2019 10:36 PM

MGySgt Rick Tyrrell — Wed, 30 Oct 2019 22:36:24 -0400

Easy. Go PT.

Response by Cpl Al Dee made Oct 31 at 2019 10:37 AM

Cpl Al Dee — Thu, 31 Oct 2019 10:37:16 -0400

Welcome to the military. First day here?

Response by Cpl Al Dee made Oct 31 at 2019 10:37 AM

Cpl Al Dee — Thu, 31 Oct 2019 10:37:57 -0400

Welcome to the military. First day here?

Response by PO2 Nathan Meyer made Oct 31 at 2019 10:23 PM

PO2 Nathan Meyer — Thu, 31 Oct 2019 22:23:10 -0400

The problem isn’t so much the PT formation, it’s the time your shift is ending. What you really should do is lobby for a shift change that is centric to a 0545 formation.

Or just switch to day or night shift if you want to get out of PT. A good SPC shouldn’t need to ask rally point for a good way to sham.

Response by SGT Ronald Audas made Nov 2 at 2019 12:58 PM

SGT Ronald Audas — Sat, 02 Nov 2019 12:58:28 -0400

Sorry buddy,but you are whining!

Response by PV2 Chris Alzner made Nov 2 at 2019 5:22 PM

PV2 Chris Alzner — Sat, 02 Nov 2019 17:22:59 -0400

Command are only required to give 4 hours of sleep. It is rough but why do you think we are held in such high regard in civilian jobs. We do what must be done at all times. Best I can advise in this is to find someone to vent to on your personal time. As for legally they are within ucmj regs.

Response by SrA Brett Stratton made Nov 3 at 2019 3:27 PM

SrA Brett Stratton — Sun, 03 Nov 2019 15:27:31 -0500

I remember I had to do a week's worth of Exercises and we worked 16 hours a day for a week straight. We had PT 3 times a week at 0530 and we also got home at midnight, give or take. We started at 0800 at got done at midnight. FOR SEVEN! DAYS! STRAIGHT! From it I learned how to function on 4 hours sleep. In the end, it all paid off.
Unless you're part of the surgical crew or something where you need to be very steady with your hands, you're gonna have to suck it up. There's a LOT of things we take for granted as civilians but the experience in the military pays off for it in the long run. Only way I can see that changing is if more people show up for the original PT time.

Response by MAJ Hugh Blanchard made Nov 3 at 2019 8:57 PM

MAJ Hugh Blanchard — Sun, 03 Nov 2019 20:57:02 -0500

Ask your platoon sergeant to bring this up. Please don't play barracks lawyer and try to find some regulation to get you out of the PT formation. Your schedule is difficult, I agree.

Response by SPC Jonathan Elliott made Nov 3 at 2019 9:16 PM

SPC Jonathan Elliott — Sun, 03 Nov 2019 21:16:07 -0500

You guys have it easy lol. We only had to have 4 hrs of sleep that could get interrupted every 20 minutes. Not to mention when your overseas you get women up by explosions and gun fire. The military is supposed to get you ready for battle in a war zone. Your supposed to be able to function on little too no sleep. I've been out now for almost 10 years and I now drive truck. I still operate better on 5 hours of sleep. Put on your man panties and suck it up. I'm glad I got out when I did because of this very attitude. Your going to be one that gets someone killed in war because you didn't get your beauty sleep.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2019 5:45 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Nov 2019 05:45:45 -0500

Looking at this objectively, I sympathize with your situation but understand the fundamental requirement of PT. Commanders intent seems to be the key piece of the puzzle here. What is that intent? Why are we emphasizing these PT formations?

That knowledge is paramount to your case as far as gaining an understanding of all parties goes. If these PT formations are being used for accountability, then wrong answer. There are better ways. If it’s being used for PT because “traditional army hooah we have to start every day with a five mile run” then also wrong answer. Mission takes precedence and as a medic your patients and your reliability and efficiently are insurmountably important.

Now if this is all because there are APFT failures or h/w failures, I can begin to see the commanders intent, but it could stand for some flexibility. Is this the only action available to achieve the desired result? What about encouraging small squad level gym times, and let lower leadership operate within the scope of the commanders intent? That’s what you have leaders for right? Your shift gets done, your head of shift dictates a training schedule that works for you and your shift mates, adhere to schedule, achieve results.

The only flaw I see in this is if it’s not like 92Gs where the same people are kept together for a “shift team” and the teams are rotated out on a daily schedule. If so I apologize for my lack of medical operations knowledge.

Response by SPC Douglas Thompson made Nov 8 at 2019 10:05 AM

SPC Douglas Thompson — Fri, 08 Nov 2019 10:05:35 -0500

I hate telling stories beginning with "Back in my day,..." but here it goes. In my time in 2ID, we'd generally have passes off-post until midnight. We'd drink, sometimes a lot. We'd often continue a party until 1a.m. in the barracks until the CQ would tell us to shut up. My aid station would have to be up and running by 0445 for sick call, then we'd PT at about 0600, sometimes still somewhat inebriated. So quite a few of us medics and other soldiers in the battalion would be doing PT on 3-4 hours sleep and possibly inebriated or hungover for or five days a week.
The difference between your situation and ours in 87 is that ours was self-induced. Same effect/result, but we didn't complain.
I also worked 12on/12off in a hospital sometimes, when we weren't on the three shift rotation and participated in unit PT, right after my duty day ended, at 0730 or just before it started depending on my work schedule.
You can adapt your daily schedule to accommodate PT, nowhere is it written that all your sleep must be in 8 uninterrupted hours

Response by SFC Barbara Layman made Nov 8 at 2019 11:56 AM

SFC Barbara Layman — Fri, 08 Nov 2019 11:56:43 -0500

"However, my section is the only one in the hospital that has a 1600-0000 shift."
"everyone must show up to PT at either the 0530 formation or the 1600 formation. "

Looks like you are working from 4pm to midnight. That means you should be able to hit the rack until 0430/0500, after all, nothings going on after midnight, make the 0530 formation, shower, go back to bed until say 1000, get up and go about your day until 1530 to head for your shift.

I don't see an issue here.

Response by SSG J F Texas made Nov 9 at 2019 2:39 PM

SSG J F Texas — Sat, 09 Nov 2019 14:39:59 -0500

Whatcha gonna do when you're down range and you're needed on duty 10 or 12 hours...how about 36? Stop crying princess. Learn to manage your time.

Response by SGT Stephen Jaffe made Nov 10 at 2019 4:54 PM

SGT Stephen Jaffe — Sun, 10 Nov 2019 16:54:06 -0500

Well, if you ever find yourself in a combat situation, you might be running and jumping, just like PT, in order to carry out your job. This might be done on no sleep. Just deal with it. You can do it.

Response by MSgt James Slawson made Nov 13 at 2019 9:57 PM

MSgt James Slawson — Wed, 13 Nov 2019 21:57:32 -0500

Unfortunately, like everyone else in your situation your day just became your night. You now need to get your sleep during the day before work. Good luck

Response by Capt Em Sperry made Nov 13 at 2019 11:17 PM

Capt Em Sperry — Wed, 13 Nov 2019 23:17:16 -0500

Certainly, the next war we fight will feature civilized enemies who will take into consideration such humanitarian things as whether or not we have had a good night's sleep, a nice wholesome breakfast, the weather to ensure no rainy or snowy days, and of course a recent mani-pedi. Physical fitness is in your best interest, and so is obedience to lawful orders and regulations. Perhaps your best recourse is to find greener pastures.

Response by Sgt Roger Whisner made Nov 18 at 2019 1:18 PM

Sgt Roger Whisner — Mon, 18 Nov 2019 13:18:43 -0500

I say you need to suck it up.

Response by Cpl Jeff Ruffing made Nov 20 at 2019 5:34 PM

Cpl Jeff Ruffing — Wed, 20 Nov 2019 17:34:24 -0500

Old School mentality here. Suck it up butter cup. Several of the things I learned in the military was:
1) If you slid out from doing something, even if it’s regulation, it pisses off the person commanding it. If they are a vindictive prick, they will stick it to you a different way via regulation.

2) Tis better to suffer in silence and be rewarded in another area, then to bitch about something, labeled a trouble maker and assigned to the most Shitty duties that come down the pike. I noticed guys that just did whatever, regardless of how unfair or unjust received favorable treatment later on where the shitbirds just got dogged

3) Set the example, do the task. The military isn’t an easy or fair life. It builds character. You may need the example to help you out later on in your career. The military is ALWAYS training for war. Look at the guys that were in combat. Fatigue was a constant. Our Nam vets in the heat of the jungle, sweating there nuts off, humping up and down valleys on endless patrols, now it’s guard duty time, already tired and worn out. Watching your buddies getting some z’s. Shit! Got contact! Contact doesn’t break till dawn. Police up your brass and gear. Don’t leave nothing behind for the enemy. Now it’s time to start humping again. I’m not a Nam vet. I was trained by Nam vets. The more you sweat in training the less you bleed in war... Go to PT, go tired, do your job. You’ll have to dig deep inside you. You’d be surprised at what you can do if your mind is with it. A navy seal said, “ when you feel tired and can’t go anymore, your body is only 40% tired. It’s your mind telling you to quit because you feel uncomfortable”

Response by Capt Al Parker made Nov 20 at 2019 9:37 PM

Capt Al Parker — Wed, 20 Nov 2019 21:37:43 -0500

Obey orders

Response by Capt Al Parker made Nov 20 at 2019 9:38 PM

Capt Al Parker — Wed, 20 Nov 2019 21:38:16 -0500

Obey orders

Response by SGT Joseph Dutton made Nov 24 at 2019 1:40 AM

SGT Joseph Dutton — Sun, 24 Nov 2019 01:40:57 -0500

Adapt! Need to take your butt to bed early. Your not at home any more where you may stay out all night long and sleep till noon. This the military and only require to provide you with 3 hots, a cot and 4 hours of sleep.

Response by SSG Brian MacBain made Nov 24 at 2019 10:24 AM

SSG Brian MacBain — Sun, 24 Nov 2019 10:24:20 -0500

And you are a promotable SPC (at the time you posted this) and whining (yes you are) about going to PT at 0530hrs when you get off shift at 0000hrs. When I was in, I been told (not sure if this is correct of not) that the Amy only has to give you 4hrs of rest, and those four hrs does not have to be all in one either. When I was in Korea (2003-2004), for 3 weeks straight, I got woke up after 2-3hrs to do a PT test. The commander wanted to get his numbers higher (I was not the only one and I was a SSG). Was I happy about it? No, but carried on and not bitch about it either. As they said in the movies, suck it up buttercup.

How many in your section is effected by this? If more then 3-4 people, why don't you take the initiative and come up on a plan that you conduct PT to your "squad" Brief that plan to your command (PLT SGT, 1SGT, CDR). The army wants you to be a leader (or you would not be promotable) and need to take the initiative, whether it is good or bad.

I know this been posted 6months ago and you might be a SGT by now. Hope it work out for you.

Response by Sgt William Margeson made Nov 24 at 2019 12:18 PM

Sgt William Margeson — Sun, 24 Nov 2019 12:18:20 -0500

You are in the military. Suck it up cupcake.

Response by SFC Robert Escher made Nov 24 at 2019 12:39 PM

SFC Robert Escher — Sun, 24 Nov 2019 12:39:41 -0500

Your in the service, I’m sorry Suck it up and go to formation

Response by PO2 Michael Henry made Nov 24 at 2019 1:22 PM

PO2 Michael Henry — Sun, 24 Nov 2019 13:22:42 -0500

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member SUCK IT UP BUTTERCUP! That's nothing. Pack your PT gear the day before and have it with you. Work, get to sleep ASAP afterward, wake up, drink some coffee to get the motor running and do it. Going to your command over this will end badly.

I worked 5 hours Wednesday (my shift for a gate that closes at 8pm, it relieves the morning shift and assists the closer), 8 hrs on Thursday 1400-2200, 16 hours 0600-2200 on Friday, 16 hours 0600-2200 on Saturday and 1400-2200 on Sunday. Normally Friday and Saturday are 0600-1400, however, because of the likelihood, I will be off from Thanksgiving, I got to make up the hours. I have to take a dog to the vet at about 0730 tomorrow for a Cushing's test, look it up. Also, we don't get breaks or lunch. I maybe get 3-4 hours of sleep on Thursday/Friday if I am lucky. I am also studying for my BSIT Network Operations and Security degree at Western Governors and my final cert class before Capstone is CCNA Security with an absolute deadline of Feb 23 by Cisco.

https://www.wgu.edu/online-it-degrees/network-administration-information-technology-security-bachelors-program.html

I am F'N exhausted right now. Still, have 2 chapters to cover in 2 other books AND videos to watch just to get caught up before my degree mentor calls me tomorrow afternoon. I also have labs to do as well. Welcome to the real suck, it's called life. Worked 31 hours straight after working a 12-hour shift, off at 5 am, drove home 35 miles, washed up, dressed and worked from 0600-2030 as a Harris County (Home to Houston, Tx) Election Official doing field tech work with the electronic ballot boxes.
I had to make 5 laps covering all the sites in my district. By the time I got home and to sleep at 2230, I was up for 31 hours straight. The dropoff was in NW Houston and I live in SE Houston. Coffee and Red Bull were in my hands at any given point.

Network Administration & IT Security Degree Program Online | WGU

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Response by CPL Deanna Green (Parkinson) made Nov 24 at 2019 8:00 PM

CPL Deanna Green (Parkinson) — Sun, 24 Nov 2019 20:00:20 -0500

What Army are you in? I don't want to appear disrespectful, but when I was in we didn't get a choice. TOP say go, we go! When you deploy, you will be wishing for those 4 hours of sleep...

Response by SPC Dwight Turner made Nov 24 at 2019 10:50 PM

SPC Dwight Turner — Sun, 24 Nov 2019 22:50:50 -0500

myself i'd do it anyway !!!! that way if you pass you'll feel better about yourself !!
dont put off what you can do today

Response by SSgt Aaron Garcia made Nov 25 at 2019 6:15 AM

SSgt Aaron Garcia — Mon, 25 Nov 2019 06:15:20 -0500

Stop whining. This isn't High School, you are in the Military. STFU

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 25 at 2019 4:32 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Nov 2019 16:32:08 -0500

Response by SSG Adam Taylor made Nov 25 at 2019 7:41 PM

SSG Adam Taylor — Mon, 25 Nov 2019 19:41:50 -0500

SPC Davis,

You're working an eight-hour shift. You have sixteen hours to do whatever you want. Strike that! You have to do PT. So, you're down to 15 hours to do whatever you want. Manage your time, and you can find 6-8 hours for sleep. Even if you stayed up after work, did PT 0530-0700, bed at 0800 and up at 1400, that's six straight hours of sleep. As a bonus, you could get in a nap before PT. Or you could put that time to good use.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 25 at 2019 8:27 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Nov 2019 20:27:21 -0500

Response by Neal Chamberlain made Nov 26 at 2019 5:32 AM

Neal Chamberlain — Tue, 26 Nov 2019 05:32:38 -0500

This scenario forced me to expend some energy thinking.

1) The USA has managed to field some of the best military units in history, particularly since converting to all-volunteer. The quality of discipline plays no small part in that proud fact.

2) I have held a 65+year career as a civilian. I did, however grow up on a dairy farm. Our days began at 0430, since that was the prime time (according to the cows). As a child/adolescent, I had a more strenuous regimen of chores than my peers, but I wanted to join in some of their activities. That meant I had to be prepared to choke up to certain adjustments.

3) I invite you to have this conversation with any combat veteran. They will likely tell you what you are doing is just a rehearsal.

Response by Capt Wayne Burden made Nov 26 at 2019 11:30 AM

Capt Wayne Burden — Tue, 26 Nov 2019 11:30:37 -0500

Unfortunately, the non-combat world revolves around the day shift folks... good or bad that’s just the way it is. As a hospital administrator I understand your desire to sleep in after a swing shift. As a military member though, we’re sometimes called upon to make some sacrifices that on the surface don’t necessarily seem fair. Keep in mind there’s a bigger picture playing out that’s bigger than any particular person’s needs or wants. Military must be fit... bottom line. Our missions require us to be at our best, both physically and mentally. Suggestion... as others have said, suck it up for now. It won’t be forever. We all have our time in the barrel, but 99.9% of us make it, and we’re better men and women in the long run for having made it successfully through a tough time. Keep in mind... at least no one’s shooting at your ass as you run... there’s worse things than being sleepy.

Response by SPC Stewart Smith made Nov 26 at 2019 12:25 PM

SPC Stewart Smith — Tue, 26 Nov 2019 12:25:40 -0500

It looks like you have plenty of time to sleep from 0830 - 1500.
I recommend you readjust your sleep schedule and sleep after PT, before work.
As others have pointed out, deployment is going to offer you a more stressful schedule and afford you less sleep. It's difficult to do, but you gotta drive on with a positive attitude. Try and look at it like a learning experience and see the glass as half full. That way when you do deploy you will be better adjusted to the "worse" conditions. You'll shine while others are lagging behind. You can pick up the torch and help others.
EDIT: I just read through some comments. Yes, it sucks that you have to schedule yourself differently than the first shift personnel. Correct it is not fair. Yes you'll do better on a more well rested day. But these difficult situations do not last forever. These difficult situations teach you a lot. You will learn from this experience and you can let it turn you into a 'negative person' or 'positive person'.
Life isn't always fair. Hard times end. Look for the silver lining.

Response by PO2 L R made Nov 26 at 2019 2:24 PM

PO2 L R — Tue, 26 Nov 2019 14:24:33 -0500

This was standard faire when I was in back in the OLD Navy. We didn't complain (at least on the web) to others about having to do PT on 4 hours sleep. I remember one time having to do it directly off the honch. If you don't want to puke, don't party. It helps in other ways too!

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Nov 26 at 2019 3:15 PM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Tue, 26 Nov 2019 15:15:46 -0500

Sorry for your loss.

Response by LTC Ken Bowers made Nov 26 at 2019 4:31 PM

LTC Ken Bowers — Tue, 26 Nov 2019 16:31:25 -0500

Yea you're whining! I see you're a promotable Spec. 4. So quit being a candy ass and act like a sergeant!

Response by PO2 Kirby Robertson made Nov 26 at 2019 5:36 PM

PO2 Kirby Robertson — Tue, 26 Nov 2019 17:36:51 -0500

Really? You go to PT...

Response by SSG Nathan Blair made Nov 27 at 2019 1:51 AM

SSG Nathan Blair — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 01:51:17 -0500

Salute sharply, carry your ass to PT and suck it up buttercup. I can remember several times of getting no sleep for days. You do what you have to.

Response by PO1 William Wright made Nov 27 at 2019 3:39 AM

PO1 William Wright — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 03:39:56 -0500

4-5 hours Sleep? So PT and go take a nap. Buttercup you need to get out now, as you do not have one ounce of what it takes to serve in any branch of the US military. You are a US service member not some whinnie snoflake working at Gamestop. 4 -5 hours sleep it a good amount. Welcome to the real world. Time to grow up and be an adult.

Response by SGT Kenneth Duncan made Nov 27 at 2019 4:23 AM

SGT Kenneth Duncan — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 04:23:45 -0500

So when you are at war are you going to call time out, because the enemy is not fighting fairly? Suck it up buttercup. War is not fair.

Response by PO2 Kirby Robertson made Nov 27 at 2019 12:05 PM

PO2 Kirby Robertson — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 12:05:24 -0500

Go to PT. What kind of question is this...

Response by SSG Michael Vance made Nov 27 at 2019 5:51 PM

SSG Michael Vance — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 17:51:39 -0500

Lots of old shift workers and people who have seen many a day in the ARMY here not likely to say what you wanna hear. Embrace the suck and figure out a time management schedule, or file a grievance with your local shop steward.

Response by PFC Flor Gomez made Nov 27 at 2019 6:22 PM

PFC Flor Gomez — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 18:22:26 -0500

Been there done that. Just expect it more in this line of work. Oh and make time for naps wherever you are able to. You'd be surprised what 15 min bathroom break cat-nap will do lol. Good luck (Sure miss my PT days)

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 27 at 2019 7:51 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 19:51:21 -0500

Talk to the Chaplain. He has the ear of the CO and/XO. Morale is their field.

Response by LCpl Kenneth Heath made Nov 28 at 2019 3:43 AM

LCpl Kenneth Heath — Thu, 28 Nov 2019 03:43:59 -0500

"As a junior enlisted, how do I solve this problem?"

Stop being a pussy... that's how you solve this problem.

Response by SPC John Coleman made Nov 28 at 2019 4:59 AM

SPC John Coleman — Thu, 28 Nov 2019 04:59:41 -0500

Sounds like you are a millennial army isn’t easy. I was in the the infantry 20 some yrs ago. Suck it up buttercup. Yeah I hear that today’s army isn’t what it used to be but god man grow a pair

Response by SPC John Coleman made Nov 28 at 2019 5:02 AM

SPC John Coleman — Thu, 28 Nov 2019 05:02:44 -0500

You are a soldier 24/7 no if and or butts lmao

Response by SPC Roland Bigby made Nov 28 at 2019 9:43 AM

SPC Roland Bigby — Thu, 28 Nov 2019 09:43:59 -0500

SUCK IT UP. -VIETNAM VET

Response by CPL John Day made Nov 28 at 2019 9:50 AM

CPL John Day — Thu, 28 Nov 2019 09:50:42 -0500

Goto PT, you will be better off. Upon reenlistment you should consider a different MOS or even civilian employment.

Response by SSG Terry Cummings made Nov 28 at 2019 12:36 PM

SSG Terry Cummings — Thu, 28 Nov 2019 12:36:45 -0500

first and foremost you obey your leader first.after when you have time off put a request to your Squad leader or platoon sgt. wait for reply if you dont agree let him or her know politely what your concerns are.if he or she cant give you I formation that you can agree on then before you take it further ask your other friends(fellow)squad members then make your decision based on that. but following proper chain of command. good luck .

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 28 at 2019 12:41 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Nov 2019 12:41:11 -0500

There is a fuck ton of research that addresses irregular sleep cycles and how dangerous they are, in the now and later in life. It makes you dumb and takes years off your life. Your first line should also have a backbone. Interrupting you in the middle of your sleep cycle is a callous and ignorant thing to do. You could go the scientific route and explain everything to your first line, who hopefully brings this to your 1SG, and then offer to do group PT at a time that better suits your wake/rest cycle. It’s possible he doesn’t even know about the 1600-0000 shift?
If that doesn’t work, come on over to the USAF. We’re not usually that retarded. Rank should not allow someone to become a tyrant.

Response by SPC Brian Blaney made Nov 28 at 2019 12:44 PM

SPC Brian Blaney — Thu, 28 Nov 2019 12:44:34 -0500

Ok, I’m going to be honest here. Suck it up and trooper on. I’ve had to do more with less sleep. I did a shooting range after having CQ and no sleep, I lived and the 1SG gave me the rest of the week off afterwards. Just do it and NOT make any waves.

Response by PO3 Terri Marini made Nov 28 at 2019 1:14 PM

PO3 Terri Marini — Thu, 28 Nov 2019 13:14:34 -0500

The military owns you and doesn’t care about your comfort. Pt is a requirement at many commands and it is not something you can pick and choose IF you want to go or not. “Suck it up buttercup”.
I had really bad bronchitis, coughing hard and like crazy. People thought I was dying. This was wintertime and we still has to wear our short shorts and brown Tshirts. I was in the Navy by the way. Our pt instructor was a Seals dropout. So he was rough and by the book. We could not be out of the pt uniform at any time. The senior chief felt bad for me and gave me me his big command issued jacket to use since I was sick. This stupid new low ranking officer told me to take it off. I yelled at him that Senior gave me his jacket and he’s been in longer and has more authority. I told them guy Ive been in longer than him and I wasn’t going to listen to him. So this jerk goes to the commander throwing a fit, al just because I was wearing a jacket to pt. He made me take it off, though Senior in everyones eyes was more seniority since he had been in for so long snd I was coughing my lungs out.
But bottom line, the military doesn't care. They own you and you do as they say.

Response by SFC Benjamin Harrison made Nov 28 at 2019 1:37 PM

SFC Benjamin Harrison — Thu, 28 Nov 2019 13:37:57 -0500

Regulations only require that you are provided with 4 hours of sleep every 24hr period and these 4 hours need not be consecutive. Sounds like you may need to either toughen up or start looking into a career change when your contract comes to an end.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 28 at 2019 2:47 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Nov 2019 14:47:56 -0500

U DO NOT bring this up. UR in the Military if u want a civilian job that is going to bend to ur will start ur own business. Then u will find out that having a business is even rougher. When I was in the Army I went to bed at midnight and got up at 430-5am 6 days a week. Did my military job then coached different sports with kids 12 months out of the year. And because I was a pretty good athlete (National and All Army level in some) I trained on my own lifting and running 6 days a week year round also.. So what I see is a person that is a whiner.
Plus ur in the military u have to be ready to go to war and if ur going to try to get things ur way when not at war i know exactly where i would put u in war, as point man in anything that put u in the field among the enemy. The most dangerous position. Why have people that took their OATH seriously go to the front 1st when we have someone like u that is not thinking team and wants a different contract than everyone else. War does NOT care if u get one hours sleep, u going to tell the enemy hold up man i need another 12 hours sleep and then we can go at it!

When I was in after my 1st year I got put in jobs that were for three ranks above me. And put in positions in the barracks where I was in charge of people that out ranked me by two ranks. One time a damned sgt or ssgt. didn't do his job and none of his people did what they were supposed to do so this idiot thought he could just take my men, and had the gall to think he could do so without even talking to me and me giving him the men or making HIM do all of the work cause he failed to do his job to start with.
I had one guy of mine come to me about it right away and the idiot that didn't do his job and I went round and round for five min. I finally gave him 1 guy and told my guy that the next time his name came up for this he got to take one time off of it and I would cover for him. Then I went to the NCO that put me in the position and told him what happened and he got in the middle of that other idiot. Then that idiot decided to come tell me that I could have gotten in trouble cause he outranked me but that he respected what I did. I told him when I was put in that position i was the same rank, all of those that were put in charge of people were the same rank just for that position otherwise those with higher rank would run rough shod over those they out ranked.

If ur going forward with wanted to get ur own way in this then do not look to get promoted, look to pull every extra duty, and rightly so. NO MATTER WHAT the people u serve with have to know they can count on u. And u whining about this means u think ur better than they are and ur not and that they cannot trust u to do ur job which is 1st to be a soldier and 2nd have a military MOS that u do. U gong to cry about it in war then look not to have people want to be a part of ANY group ur in and maybe even so far and friendly fire in a legit fire fight.

I grew up in a military home. My dad fought in two wars which means that in one if he got killed I would not b here and in the other that my dad would not have come home to his wife and three boys in grade school. And we were bullied when people found out that we were military.
I have NO time for people like u in the military or in civilian life cause u think others should serve u cause ur so special. Ur not. U should look into history, want to see someone that was Special look to Audey Murphy and work to be more like him. OR ANYONE that served in WWII. Try doing this crap with Patton and he would have ridden ur rear end like there was no tomorrow and tell u that u have no more rights then the others and U signed the SAME paperwork and Volunteered to raise UR RIGHT HAND and Took an oath like the rest of them did.

I remember a few years back some soldiers sister was against the war going on and the demoncRATS tried using her when her brother got killed in combat. She made the statement that her brother did not sign up to get killed. Well that is exactly what U Did when U made it through all of the processes to allow U to even take the oath, which qualified u to go to basic and when u passed basic to go to AIT which then allowed to to get assigned to a certain place and fill a job. What do u think the DI in basic would have said if u came to him? Exactly what everyone should now. U get extra duty immediately after u get off work and u will do it right or u will get to keep doing it until it is military right.
U want to make things harder on ur self go forward with this and see how hard they come back at u. And see how much extra stuff they will make u do. U R PATHETIC!!!! I WOULD NOT want to have u on the same base as me.

Response by MSG Gary George made Nov 28 at 2019 7:26 PM

MSG Gary George — Thu, 28 Nov 2019 19:26:17 -0500

PT, Work day, CQ, Work Day and then go home just to be back the next morning. Worked all those shifts at WRAMC and made it work. What sucks is when you live 20 or more miles away and have to come back for PT after working a late shift. You can do it and will be better for it in the long run. Just embrace the suck and drive on.

Response by SGT Tim Tobin made Nov 28 at 2019 8:37 PM

SGT Tim Tobin — Thu, 28 Nov 2019 20:37:14 -0500

Bottom line is PT sucks but it would suck worse if you were in a combat area and not in shape and able to work with little sleep. A popular saying comes to mind. Suck it up buttercup!!

Response by LCDR Stephen Holmes made Nov 28 at 2019 11:10 PM

LCDR Stephen Holmes — Thu, 28 Nov 2019 23:10:22 -0500

This is where you show you've got what it takes. You go to PT and do your best. You have time to sleep before and all day until 1400 or so. If it really bothers you, you have an option to recommend to 1SG that you lead a separate PT session at a time better for "weird shift-ers". Been medical all my life, since E-1. You show 'em you got this, and you earn respect; but if you show 'em you can't handle this, you don't belong. You own the choice!

Response by PO2 John Rennolds made Nov 29 at 2019 10:38 AM

PO2 John Rennolds — Fri, 29 Nov 2019 10:38:26 -0500

Just go to PT. 4-5 hours of sleep. Are you going to ask the enemy to wait until you
have a nap? Don't think so.,

Response by CDR Kenneth Pepper made Nov 29 at 2019 11:53 AM

CDR Kenneth Pepper — Fri, 29 Nov 2019 11:53:44 -0500

Is it possible you've forgotten you voluntarily joined the U.S. Army, not the Salvation Army? You are training for, and must remain prepared to, go to war. Once on the line where bullets are flying you might not, and probably won't, get much sleep for days. Ask anyone, from any service branch, who has been there.

Your 1SG isn't there to tuck you into bed. He's there to keep you ready, and hopefully alive. Whether you're getting lack of sleep is due to having recently come off duty, or returning from a late night/early morning in town isn't the priority.

Your readiness is. Your ability to survive and have the back of you buddy is.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 29 at 2019 1:26 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 Nov 2019 13:26:54 -0500

You do what ordered to do. You're in the military. Quit your whining.

Response by SGT Daniel Durkovich made Nov 30 at 2019 12:11 AM

SGT Daniel Durkovich — Sat, 30 Nov 2019 00:11:21 -0500

Don't know how it is now but the regs used to say 4 hours was the minimum. So check the regs

Response by SGT Martha Cain made Nov 30 at 2019 5:33 AM

SGT Martha Cain — Sat, 30 Nov 2019 05:33:40 -0500

Having gone to Ft. Bragg, N.C. & been trained as an airborne, infantry, tactical, signal soldier, I smile.

Response by SGT Martha Cain made Nov 30 at 2019 5:49 AM

SGT Martha Cain — Sat, 30 Nov 2019 05:49:26 -0500

Honestly, I went in as a WAC and never would have dared presume to question the rigorous physical training ; that was preparing us to function in a tactical situation~! War is the profession of a soldier. My proudest moment was selection for an Airborne Deployment unit~! An Airborne-D & everyone needed us & we had to be ready , 24/7...immediate, direct infantry support. Honor your service, do as required & be grateful for it..."soldier up".

Response by SFC Michael McKinney made Nov 30 at 2019 9:04 AM

SFC Michael McKinney — Sat, 30 Nov 2019 09:04:05 -0500

Ruck up and soldier, soldier.

Response by Sgt Raymond Mirabile made Nov 30 at 2019 2:31 PM

Sgt Raymond Mirabile — Sat, 30 Nov 2019 14:31:57 -0500

Wah Wah Wah....man it scares me that wussie like this are in the Military. How about 3 days with only a few hours snatched when possible. I know a guy who went through his training as a CIVILIAN PA .. forced to work 24 - 36 hrs straight with only grabbing some sleep in an empty hospital room and had to be back at it within hours. Asleep standing up. A former SEAL dropped out. Why this grueling treatment? So that in real life situations you could function under conditions that may come close to or exceed that training. The excuse given here of being medical is nothing more than elitist crap. I served as a Marine I want my Corpsman to be able to cut it at least as mich as we had to... ITR...18 hrs in the field..back to a wooden hutch..clean weapons, go outside in the cold rain, jump a muddy drainage ditch to get to the head. Clean up. Return in the rain and mud, jump the ditch, hit the rack, get rousted after 2-hrs for a fire drill and rifle inspection. Return to barracks. Get ready for another day in the field. Go to chow. Ooops..chow hall closing. Only toast and coffee. Back to barracks. Fall out. Wait in rain for trucks that were always late. Get on trucks. Arrive at training site in the middle of a highly forested nowhere. Begin the days training. Then do it all again 5 days a week. Sorry cupcakes. Suck it up ot go home. You are NOT wanted in the field.

Response by SGT Tom Moore made Dec 1 at 2019 10:00 AM

SGT Tom Moore — Sun, 01 Dec 2019 10:00:14 -0500

Ready to re-up? Embrace the suck.

Response by CPT William Jones made Dec 1 at 2019 11:20 AM

CPT William Jones — Sun, 01 Dec 2019 11:20:42 -0500

What happens anywhere else is not relevant to this issue. The first sgt is not thinking or interested in this soldiers issue that the 1sgt created. Sm shift starts when afternoon pt starts and his shift ends 5.5 hours before morning pt subtract 1.5 hours for travel prep and eating after work leaves 4 hours for sleep which is not enough for day after day. one solution would be for top to pick him up join him for pt and take him back to sm quarters after pt. ill bet top will figure something out that is reasonable pretty quick

Response by MSG Ramon Figueroa made Dec 1 at 2019 2:25 PM

MSG Ramon Figueroa — Sun, 01 Dec 2019 14:25:48 -0500

re-up, re-up you’re crazy, re-up, re-up you’re out of your mind, my opinion in a nut shell...

Response by CPT Don Kemp made Dec 1 at 2019 7:21 PM

CPT Don Kemp — Sun, 01 Dec 2019 19:21:45 -0500

First, I’d go to PT. Then, after you’ve followed the lawful order, ask to see your Platoon Sergeant and or 1SG. By the way, obey and then raise the issue is always the right sequence unless doing so will result in illegal, immoral, or unethical behavior.

Response by SP5 James Johnson made Dec 1 at 2019 8:22 PM

SP5 James Johnson — Sun, 01 Dec 2019 20:22:58 -0500

You can teach your body to sleep from 0100 to 0500 do your PT and then have a nice day. Later in the afternoon catch a few ZZZZ and go to work. Lifes a bitch and then you die.

Response by MSgt Michael Cronin made Dec 1 at 2019 11:16 PM

MSgt Michael Cronin — Sun, 01 Dec 2019 23:16:13 -0500

Wow, 4 hours of sleep! Lucky you...

Response by PFC Shawn West made Dec 1 at 2019 11:20 PM

PFC Shawn West — Sun, 01 Dec 2019 23:20:43 -0500

You're getting 4 to 5 hours of sleep and you're worried about PT? You obviously have no idea what is in store being a parent and having a job. I am absolutely ashamed at the military for promoting you above me because you do not belong in the military. Soup sandwich doesn't even describe you. Blue falcon does describe you. What the fuck are you in the military for? For fucks sake, why the fuck did you enlist?

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2019 12:51 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Dec 2019 00:51:43 -0500

These new soldiers whine about everything. Our force is becoming weaker and weaker. You get 5 hours of sleep before PT come back shower and you still have 9-10 hours before you have to be at work. What’s the problem?!

Response by PO3 Steven Muirhead made Dec 2 at 2019 1:43 AM

PO3 Steven Muirhead — Mon, 02 Dec 2019 01:43:31 -0500

Wow, just wow. The military has sure changed.

Sign your name, take the oath, do what you are told.

You may get an order one day that Could lead to your death. That is the job. Go to PT and quit whining.

Response by LCpl Steve Smith made Dec 2 at 2019 3:08 AM

LCpl Steve Smith — Mon, 02 Dec 2019 03:08:27 -0500

You go and do PT on only 4-5 hours sleep. That's what you do. After PT you can go back to sleep. Look Yes it Sucks the Big Green Weenie is doing you without the courtesy of a reach around but you still have plenty of down time to get more sleep after PT. It's just a new routine you will have to get used to unless you can get your Company XO or CO to give you a pass but I do not see that happening since they would have to do that for your entire section and that would be unfair to everyone else in the Company that didn't get a pass. So it's just one of those things where you say to your self Welcome to the Army lol...

Response by SrA Ronald Moore made Dec 2 at 2019 5:23 AM

SrA Ronald Moore — Mon, 02 Dec 2019 05:23:05 -0500

Do not taking short cuts t get around the P.T cause it too is sign when the going gets tough, you would shortcut inthe battle ground, or anywhere you are, Taking the long way around is for your own conditioning and safety and it prepares you mentally to not turn and run if you are pinned down somewhere.

Response by SFC Richard Williamson made Dec 2 at 2019 7:59 AM

SFC Richard Williamson — Mon, 02 Dec 2019 07:59:47 -0500

What's your point?? 4 to 5 hrs of sleep was plenty of sleep prior to PT when I was enlisted a few years ago. In fact it was nothing for us to run PT with 3 or less hrs of sleep, not by choice, most of the time either. We had a work schedule and for the most, we stuck to that schedule. Don't have more important things to whine about besides PT? Years back, when I was still active, as lower enlisted, we never had the luxury of "explaining" ourselves. Orders were issued and we followed them. There is one regulation, as I recall, that covers everything you've cried about here. That reg is called :UCMJ. You appear to be living proof that the Army is not for everybody.

Response by PO1 Todd McMillin made Dec 2 at 2019 8:11 AM

PO1 Todd McMillin — Mon, 02 Dec 2019 08:11:35 -0500

Then you need to address it as finding a way to work around your schedule of work and PT. However, it sounds more like you need to adjust your sleep schedule and get things done.

Response by CPO Arthur Weinberger made Dec 2 at 2019 9:55 AM

CPO Arthur Weinberger — Mon, 02 Dec 2019 09:55:53 -0500

You are whining. The army needs its personnel to be in good physical and mental condition. In today's military, we have a huge amount of humans that are overweight. Most of our armed forces are in poor shape even if not overweight. You should hug and kiss your first sergeant and be thankful he or she cares about your health.

Response by PO1 Tom Follis made Dec 2 at 2019 12:36 PM

PO1 Tom Follis — Mon, 02 Dec 2019 12:36:59 -0500

I could but, I won’t. Somebody would get their feelings hurt.

Response by PO1 Tom Follis made Dec 2 at 2019 12:40 PM

PO1 Tom Follis — Mon, 02 Dec 2019 12:40:40 -0500

CW3 Storm. There’s one.

Response by CPO Bernie Penkin made Dec 2 at 2019 1:16 PM

CPO Bernie Penkin — Mon, 02 Dec 2019 13:16:14 -0500

Go to PT until you are told otherwise. My question to you Ashley is what have you done to bring a solution to your chain of command? Leadership hears all kinds of problems from their junior enlisted, but rarely do they get possible solutions. Old retired guys like me have endured many nights of little to no sleep due to operational commitment. That is probably why you don’t see much support, but I am willing to bet that if you show up for PT and give it your best along with alternative idea like PT at 1400 for you and your shift that you might see a change.

Response by PFC Charles Sanders made Dec 2 at 2019 2:27 PM

PFC Charles Sanders — Mon, 02 Dec 2019 14:27:46 -0500

Here's the solution. Go to PT, go home, shower, and go back to bed. If you can talk your command into a 0800 PT time then more power to you, but in the end you've got from the end of PT till 1600 to sleep and get ready for work. Welcome to the Army.

Response by SGT William R Rawlings made Dec 2 at 2019 3:58 PM

SGT William R Rawlings — Mon, 02 Dec 2019 15:58:40 -0500

As a Junior Enlisted you are stuck Period. Follow orders ! If it interferes with Hospital duties ask the Hospital admin to request the 1st Sgt make an allowance. I suggest you do as you are told, bucking the system doesn't work .

Response by LTC Marvin Gibson made Dec 2 at 2019 6:50 PM

LTC Marvin Gibson — Mon, 02 Dec 2019 18:50:28 -0500

Go to bed earlier.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2019 8:54 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Dec 2019 20:54:29 -0500

Segmented sleep, where you sleep for 4 hours, stay up for around 2 hours, then go to sleep for another 4, is supposedly a better way to sleep.

You should have time for 4 hours of sleep before pt, then take 4 hours of sleep after, and you could be better off.

Response by SGT Richard Crawford made Dec 2 at 2019 11:16 PM

SGT Richard Crawford — Mon, 02 Dec 2019 23:16:32 -0500

A friend of mine who happens to be a 1SG in a Recruiting Unit told me I wouldn't like the Army anymore because it's not the Army I remember. In my day you went to PT not a question (unless you were a 300 scorer), you showed up Profile and all, after report those not participating in PT fell out to the back of formation to explain why they weren't participating (you better have a real reason). The PT formation also served as our way to account for our Soliders. I'm rambling but you are whining, stop go to PT get back take a shower lay down and I'll bet you'll sleep well.

Response by SrA Derek Whitley made Dec 3 at 2019 1:19 AM

SrA Derek Whitley — Tue, 03 Dec 2019 01:19:48 -0500

Suck it up buttercup. Follow the orders then and only then, after complete compliance do you use your chain of command. Keep your military bearing. 4-5 hours of sleep is enough.

Response by LCDR Ernest Heassler made Dec 3 at 2019 1:47 AM

LCDR Ernest Heassler — Tue, 03 Dec 2019 01:47:13 -0500

Best response: suck it up and do the PT. Get a good couple of nights rest before you have to go short on sleep and you should be fine.

Response by A1C Kenneth White made Dec 3 at 2019 5:30 AM

A1C Kenneth White — Tue, 03 Dec 2019 05:30:53 -0500

Respectfully ,
Should You ever find yourself in a "combat Theater" and I don't know if you haven't already, or even worse as it has happened in the past, some radical makes it on to a base , your base, You will not be able to tell the aggressor you only had a few hours sleep, They will have at you regardless of your fatigue, So with all due respect to your service, Thank you, But please Report to your PT...

Response by SrA George Gomez made Dec 3 at 2019 7:58 AM

SrA George Gomez — Tue, 03 Dec 2019 07:58:57 -0500

I was not in the Army 39 years ago, I was in the Air Force and the idea someone could complain about orders to assemble is insane. Wake up snowflakes, you gave your body to the Military for whatever length you signed up for. If you are in the field, playing in the sandbox or some place of conflict, the enemy does not care your sick or hungover. Suck it up and endure.

Response by LCDR Arthur Whittum made Dec 3 at 2019 5:10 PM

LCDR Arthur Whittum — Tue, 03 Dec 2019 17:10:44 -0500

Why do I feel unsympathetic right now!? Suck it up comes to mind. Sorry, no pass.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2019 5:44 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Dec 2019 17:44:09 -0500

Where's your section NCOIC in all this? Usually if a section has some different shifts, you can get your NCOIC to work with the 1SG.

You might have to play the 1SGs game for a few days unless you can get your NCOs to go work something out. I mean you get off at midnight and don't have to be to work until 1545 the next day - so you show up to PT and your section NCOIC can release those who got off at midnight - but when do you guys do PT then?

Response by PO2 Richard Taylor made Dec 3 at 2019 6:12 PM

PO2 Richard Taylor — Tue, 03 Dec 2019 18:12:03 -0500

I've read some of the other comments and feel this needs a solid response. A civilian nurse, even an ER/trauma nurse can expect to work a 12-hour shift. Most civilian first responders work 12-hour shifts. Everyone in the military is expected to be mission-ready 24-7-365, unless there are extenuating circumstances.
To feel that having 16 hours of downtime being interrupted is a "problem" IS the problem. I'm sure nearly everyone here has posted the 0000-0400 watch and been present for PT at 0530, or been deployed and worked 18 hour days, or been in combat and 'worked' nonstop for however long.
I'm not unsympathetic but you need to get your self-discipline in order, SPC Davis. We all have jobs that require accuracy for the sake of lives. Being physically fit is part of the commitment from Bootcamp onwards and is a fundamental part of your capability.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2019 7:50 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Dec 2019 19:50:12 -0500

I cannot even believe ur trying to get out of this. ITS NOT A PROBLEM do UR JOB and PT IS A PART OF UR JOB U DO IT JUST LIKE BASIC WHEN they tell u to do it. And U HAD LESS than 4-5 hours of continuous sleep back then.

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2019 11:26 PM

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Dec 2019 23:26:06 -0500

You just need to suck it up Soldier and go to PT at 0530 as ordered to do. If nobody else is willing to be blunt and honest with you, I will. You are in the United States Army Soldier, you are no longer a civilian! Yes, you are whining Specialist! When I was stationed in Germany at Robinson Barracks I worked 12 hour shifts as a Military Policeman from 1800 hrs to 0600 hrs, showed up for PT formation at 0600 hrs as ordered and then turned around at 0800 hrs and took college classes on my days off that were 8 hours a day for 2 days a week at the Education Center from 0800 to 1700 hours, with 1 hour off for lunch break from class. I ate lunch and then laid down for a nap to get me through it. I did that for a full year until I was promoted and went into an Admin job working 8 hours a day with weekends off at the Provost Marshal Office Operations. Embrace The Suck! It can be done. It is only temporary. If it is too much for you, then maybe you should consider getting out of the US Army. Otherwise, suck it up and go to PT as scheduled.

Response by SGT Michael McMahon made Dec 4 at 2019 3:46 AM

SGT Michael McMahon — Wed, 04 Dec 2019 03:46:30 -0500

As an old NCO, I remember that Regulations only require the commander to give a soldier 4 hours off (not sleep), while in garrison, and only one hour of sleep in tactical situations. Now if I were your Squad Leader, or Section Sergeant, I would be talking with Top, and figuring out a workable accommodation for those who have to work abnormal duty hours. I wish you luck Specialist, and THANK YOU, for carrying on the defense of freedom!

Response by SSgt James Mathews made Dec 4 at 2019 8:01 AM

SSgt James Mathews — Wed, 04 Dec 2019 08:01:12 -0500

I can not believe this. This person should have taken basic at Ft Knox in the winter of 59, I did. I wonder if he had to crawl through the tank tracks in the mud. I could write a book a foot thick on what is now called abuse. I have nothing to say but good about my experience in the Army and later four years in the Air Force

Response by MAJ Robert Philpot made Dec 4 at 2019 8:20 AM

MAJ Robert Philpot — Wed, 04 Dec 2019 08:20:04 -0500

Are you going to die?

Response by Cpl Gregory Gordon made Dec 4 at 2019 8:57 AM

Cpl Gregory Gordon — Wed, 04 Dec 2019 08:57:14 -0500

Coming from a former Marine grunt who now works as a nurse, it's the military, you do what the command says. Do your job, go to pt, catch some close eye when you can, and remember, chow is continuous. Meaning, mission orders come first. Second, when you have downtime, it is your responsibility to catch adequate rest - it may not be your ideal or preferred time but thats life in the service. Lastly, the ideal that chow is continuous meaning you wont always have time for a sit down meal and may need to eat duting small breaks during the day.

As a nurse currently, if youre arguing that you cant set up an iv pump minimal sleep, thats one of the simplest tasks. If youre fatigued or tired, double and triple check your work, dont rush it. Triple check med orders before administering- should be common practice anyways.

Lastly, feel free to grumble and complain with your fellow junior enlisted, seeks a right of passage so to speak. Us grunts were almost always disgruntled about something or another. It builds bonds and camaraderie. Best of luck to you.

Response by Sgt John Curtin made Dec 4 at 2019 9:52 AM

Sgt John Curtin — Wed, 04 Dec 2019 09:52:53 -0500

Stop your damn whimpering. You ARE in the MILITARY. Manage your off time better, put the beer bottle down, and get some sleep. Then DO AS ORDERED. Theres no room in the military for whiny discussions....

Response by SR Michele Butcher made Dec 4 at 2019 12:33 PM

SR Michele Butcher — Wed, 04 Dec 2019 12:33:03 -0500

Go to the PT get it done then go back to bed problem solved I can seriously think of way worse problems then getting a few hours sleep having pt then going back to bed

Response by MGySgt Tommy Martinez made Dec 4 at 2019 12:39 PM

MGySgt Tommy Martinez — Wed, 04 Dec 2019 12:39:21 -0500

Go to PT problem solved.

Response by PO2 Dan Shilkett made Dec 4 at 2019 12:49 PM

PO2 Dan Shilkett — Wed, 04 Dec 2019 12:49:10 -0500

You’re kidding, right?
You must be chair force!
USCG Ret.

Response by SCPO Sam Allerton made Dec 4 at 2019 1:20 PM

SCPO Sam Allerton — Wed, 04 Dec 2019 13:20:46 -0500

Seriously? Soldier, for what business are you training? Your statement "my section is the only one in the hospital" would suggest you could be deployed as a medic. Do you think the enemy cares one whit that you are working on little or no sleep? Are you going to raise your "It's not fair" card like a white flag when your buddies are bleeding out in the kill zone - or are you going to face the music you signed up to dance to?
You need to rapidly re-evaluate who you are - REALLY. Look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself if you are in the right place, because right now I would say NO!
Might I also suggest you start thinking from the perspective of at least two paygrades above where you are right now. If the 1SGT wants you at PT, get your butt over there and PT.
If you are looking for fairness in this life, you are going to be sorely disappointed. And since you volunteered for the Army, doubly so.
The life of an Armed Forces Services Member is not an easy one. You will be called on to make sacrifices in peace time that will better prepare you to survive in battle. Remember the old mantra "the more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war". Go to PT, sweat, and get into a physical and mental place where you can save your brothers and sisters when they need you most - or go home.

Response by MSgt Andrew Howe made Dec 4 at 2019 3:45 PM

MSgt Andrew Howe — Wed, 04 Dec 2019 15:45:14 -0500

As a recently retired SNCO, I feel your pain. The typical new 1st Sergeant will usually go out of their way to impress the CC to look good, which means being a hard-arse about PT.
That aside, I’ll address others responses first. This Junior Enlisted member didn’t say he was CHOOSING his work hours as YOU chose to drink/party till PT time. Your correlation is completely bogus and also of your choosing. Had you been under my supervision, I’d have brought you up under an Article 15 for being in formation intoxicated! Evidently this young soldier has more common sense to address the issue in a responsible manner.
Now, back to the topic. I would speak to your first-line Supervisor following the Chain-of-Command protocols. You probably won’t get much there because Junior NCOs aren’t much to make waves. If there is a suggestion box or anonymous forum to direct the general concern to the CC, try that. Otherwise, you could ask your Supervisor to allow you the time for the 1600 formation. Typically, military personnel are allowed to leave work early for PT formations. These are ideas you can try. Don’t be shocked if you get no where...it’s the sad misfortune that military members are not looked at as human beings but machines that are pushed to break. Stay positive, stay strong, remember the negative so you can be an effective leader yourself once you achieve higher ranks if you choose to.
As for deployments, those are a whole different beast and everyone suffers 12-hour+ shifts with no down-days. It’s the warriors way.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 4 at 2019 10:40 PM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Dec 2019 22:40:37 -0500

If you don’t want to go to PT report to formation and request to speak to someone in your chain of command afterwards. Follow your last order.

That being said you are in the military and being fit and ready to fight is what American’s tax dollars pay for. I am pretty sure America’s enemies are not complaining about going to make car bombs on 4 hours of sleep. What you really have to ask yourself is this. If getting to formation on 4 hours of sleep would make the difference between saving and losing the life of someone you loved would you do it? Then I think your answer is clear. Get off your 2-pack and execute that order Solider. America’s depending on you.

Response by SGT Johnny Owens made Dec 4 at 2019 11:16 PM

SGT Johnny Owens — Wed, 04 Dec 2019 23:16:22 -0500

Just do it. The best policy for a soldier is to just do what you're told. Unless, in an unlikely case that your 1SG orders you to do something unlawful. You I'll get promoted, and this will help you grow as an NCO.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 4 at 2019 11:34 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Dec 2019 23:34:57 -0500

Hell, I can remember drinking until 4 or 5, then getting up for first call at 0600 and PT at 0630. Might need to toughen up a bit.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2019 12:06 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Dec 2019 00:06:05 -0500

Are you kidding me I wake up for formation at 0630 and get off at 1700 this ain't shit excuse my french this is the army you are to follow your first sgt no matter what if he or she says hey 0530 you better get use to it god damn your in the army as a pog I'm an infantryman you better start shaping instead of being a whinny bitch excuse my french and behavior I hate people who complain

Response by 1SG Mike Robinson made Dec 5 at 2019 6:53 AM

1SG Mike Robinson — Thu, 05 Dec 2019 06:53:10 -0500

Sorry I am old Army. Our workday was 0530 to 1900. PT is a requirement

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2019 8:00 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Dec 2019 08:00:19 -0500

SPC Davis,
As a current healthcare worker i can understand your dilemma. I sympathize with your situation however you enlisted in the Army. This came with responsibilities and one of those being PT. I currently work the night shift at my hospital floating between the ER and ICU. We do 12 hour shifts and as you well know a shift in the hospital can be either very chill or very hectic. My shifts begin either at 2100 or 1900 on my duty days and run for 12 hours straight. I usually do PT either when i wake up or when i get off shift before i go to bed. You as a soldier need to have the self discipline of being at the designated PT formation on time unless physically unable to do so IE, sick and on quarters, busted limb, etc. I usually only get anywhere from 4-6 hours of sleep a night, This is also in combination with preforming my duties as a BN staff officer and nursing school. Unless its my off day then i try to get a combined total of 8 hours. I agree with some of the other posters you have several opportunities to get the required rest your body needs although it may not be in one sitting. You get off shift at 0000, you have about 5 and half hours available to you before PT at 0530. You know from backwards planning you need to be at PT 10 - 15 min prior for accountability. From experience it takes me anywhere from 30 min to an hour to fall asleep once im in bed. This should give you a short nap of at least 3 hours. Yes it sucks and yes your tired but you are still required to do your job and fulfill your commitment. Once PT ends say around 0700 you can sleep from at least 0800 - 1400. This is a solid 6 hours of sleep. You are not going to get 8 hours in one setting it wont happen unless its your off day. Here is where i will tell you to suck it up, Sleep where you can when you can. You can get anywhere from a combined 4-8 hours a day of sleep if you manage your time wisely and plan for it. If you still feel you are not able to fulfill your duties, and get some rest ask for planning assistance from your squad mates and also your platoon SGT. I started off my career in your shoes, i remember what it was like. Hopefully this helps. Dont be afraid to reach back out if you need more advice.

Response by SGT Robert Andrews made Dec 5 at 2019 11:19 AM

SGT Robert Andrews — Thu, 05 Dec 2019 11:19:30 -0500

Seriously your asking this? Your authorized 4 hours of sleep so uh if i was your platoon Sgt you would get 4 hours of sleep just for whining suck it up do your job

Response by MSG Roy Cheever made Dec 5 at 2019 11:39 AM

MSG Roy Cheever — Thu, 05 Dec 2019 11:39:18 -0500

You may want to check your attitude. When you have a job, you're productivity, mission, and goal should be to be the best you can be and inspire others to do the same. This work ethic (in the military or civilian) is what makes possible “the American Dream”.
If you follow the prescribed above, it will lead to promotion and leadership skills. Which will allow you to share why you’re command has the ideas of standards that you now question.
I made E-7 with nine years of service, using the methods above.
I wish for you to have good fortune As well.

Response by PVT Tony Notimportant made Dec 5 at 2019 2:04 PM

PVT Tony Notimportant — Thu, 05 Dec 2019 14:04:33 -0500

I’ve never been in a unit that five SM show for PT....lol. That is one hell of a unit, now I get it with shift units. But that’s something that the unit CO and Top have to hash out with line supervisors. You might want to suck the egg or request for schools, call your branch manager. Do something besides rely on COC. Sometimes things workout to your advantage or in your case “new boss” “new standards “! I use to get hammered with my fellow joes and get 3-4 hours sleep and run myself sober. Should of picked a different MOS

Response by SSG Jim Whitt made Dec 5 at 2019 3:07 PM

SSG Jim Whitt — Thu, 05 Dec 2019 15:07:18 -0500

Welcome to the Army

Response by SGT Jorge Vela made Dec 5 at 2019 3:59 PM

SGT Jorge Vela — Thu, 05 Dec 2019 15:59:13 -0500

this is too damn funny...remember being in korea coming home at curfew and drinking for a couple hours and then going to PT at 05....prob 3 hours of sleep...running from casey to hovey and back....come on man...maybe this army life isnt for you

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2019 9:03 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Dec 2019 21:03:11 -0500

Wah, wah...wah, wah, wah, wahhhh. Many sad face emojis. :(

With respect to the medical community, you're a specialist on a night shift. I doubt you're being over-stressed or overworked. Someone previously mentioned time management. Consider this before you try to dig up a AR to toss in the face of your 1SG. If you decide to remain in after your first enlistment, you will doubtless end up in assignments where 4-5 hours will seem to be a luxury.

Response by SPC Joe Dilley made Dec 5 at 2019 10:21 PM

SPC Joe Dilley — Thu, 05 Dec 2019 22:21:15 -0500

Man up and get it done. What, you gonna tell the enemy you’ve only had 4 or 5 hours of sleep so you can’t fight? Change your panties for some men pants and soldier up.

Response by PO3 D L made Dec 6 at 2019 10:28 AM

PO3 D L — Fri, 06 Dec 2019 10:28:45 -0500

A young enlisted person should be able to manage doing 0530 PT and after that is completed, head home, have some "dinner" around 0800, go to bed and *then* head to work. You have to be responsible as you are in the military and part of a group. You are expected to be in good physical condition and this is the way to keep it on track.

Response by Cpl Cailen Dixon, M.Ed. made Dec 6 at 2019 12:27 PM

Cpl Cailen Dixon, M.Ed. — Fri, 06 Dec 2019 12:27:48 -0500

I remember when I first got into Iraq as a Marine Corps infantryman, I got about 4 hours of interrupted sleep each day for about the first month, an hour or so here and an hour or so there.
Leading up to my deployments, it was not unusual to be sleep deprived during training. Suck it up. If you can't perform under these conditions, then you don't deserve to be in the military. You're not doing your part if you expect the rules to be changed because you're tired. This isn't the civilian world, and if you wish it were, maybe you shouldn't have joined in the first place.

Response by MSgt George Fillgrove made Dec 6 at 2019 1:15 PM

MSgt George Fillgrove — Fri, 06 Dec 2019 13:15:22 -0500

So, let me sum it up professionally -- SUCK IT UP, Specialist. Think four hours of sleep disqualifies you for doing your duty in a combat zone or during a deployment.

First eight months I was in the Air Force, I was sent from one Army post to another. Didn't disqualify me from falling in at a company formation or falling out for PT. Didn't gripe either when the first sergeant issued tooth brushes to clean the dirt out of the cracks in the Linoleum.

Are you in the Army or not?

Response by SFC Edward Tucker made Dec 6 at 2019 5:31 PM

SFC Edward Tucker — Fri, 06 Dec 2019 17:31:12 -0500

The way you resolve this issue effectively and professionally is show up for PT @ 0530 as this is part of your duty. Ask yourself what's going to happen, not if but when you hit the combat zone? It is your duty as an American Soldier to maintain yourself, be technically and tactically proficient in all tasks. This shouldn't even be a topic of conversation from a Professional Soldier.

Response by Cpl Robert Masi made Dec 6 at 2019 8:11 PM

Cpl Robert Masi — Fri, 06 Dec 2019 20:11:35 -0500

What the sh*t? There were many times I’d PT still very drunk and running only on 2-3 hours of sleep. One time I forgot I filled my camel pack with Vodka and I had to do a 3 mile run dried up with no water. Suck it up. You’re not in a position to be asked to do thongs that others haven’t been able to do before you.

Response by CPO Charlie Kessler made Dec 7 at 2019 8:36 AM

CPO Charlie Kessler — Sat, 07 Dec 2019 08:36:17 -0500

SPC, the situation does suck. Night shift sucks because many on days either don't know or don't remember what lifestyle changes have to be made while working shift. We were frequently called in during the day and on days off for musters and ceremonies, or other reasons that aren't relevant here. If you plan on getting enough sleep, working nights means pretty much dropping out of the rest of the world, which some guys loved. I personally didn't. Keep in mind, for the upper chain, face time with their troops is important and chances are they don't get to see you when your on nights. They are also responsible for your physical readiness, which can be a real concern for those on nights. During my time on nights I had small children so I simply didn't get as much sleep as some of the single folks. You are left with few options here, as I see it, and communication is key. One option is having a daily section PT in lieu of company PT. This will have to be negotiated, but if your 1SG is open minded it could happen. One way to convince him is to show up to company PT periodically, say once a month or even once a week, and the rest of the time do section PT. This will at least give your section a little leeway on when PT is done. Your PT may have to be documented and invite your 1SG to your sessions if he buys off on it. It will give him a warm and fuzzy that it is getting done and will also give him some face time with you. If he doesn't buy off on it then you are stuck until you rotate back to days. Good luck.

Response by SGT Jason Miller made Dec 7 at 2019 11:31 AM

SGT Jason Miller — Sat, 07 Dec 2019 11:31:10 -0500

Get a nap in the after PT and before your 1600 shift. If you’re worried about this just wait until you Get deployed or hit civilian life. You do what’s needed, no questions asked. Embrace the suck and move on.

Response by Cpl Robert Vitolo made Dec 7 at 2019 6:27 PM

Cpl Robert Vitolo — Sat, 07 Dec 2019 18:27:04 -0500

My God, I can't believe what has become of our national defenders!!!

Response by LTC Charles Lauderdale made Dec 8 at 2019 12:10 AM

LTC Charles Lauderdale — Sun, 08 Dec 2019 00:10:05 -0500

Two questions. 1). Was that 4-5 hours sleep in one night? 2). Are you in an American Army unit? I must have been born in the wrong century and/or served in another army in a land far, far away. In that army 4-5 hours sleep in a single night was when one was home on leave. We never suffered sunburn during PT in that PT formations were always at 0 dark 30 hours. The only exception to early morning PT was in Ranger School. If there was a rain storm or blizzard you can bet that damn SFC Artez would stop everything and call a PT formation. One good thing about that army was that we did not have to worry about what army regulations said or did not say. If the 1SG did not know the regulation in question he would just ask the SGM! Soldier/Cop/Grunt, Retired

Response by SSgt Wilson Ortiz made Dec 8 at 2019 8:13 PM

SSgt Wilson Ortiz — Sun, 08 Dec 2019 20:13:59 -0500

There is a reason the 1SG wants you there at zero dark thirty. Take it as a compliment. While there is nothing wrong with asking your PLT SGT to ask for reconsideration, I wouldn't expect much change. Don't hesitate to ask, everyone is an adult and is entitled to speak on how they feel, not that all with care on your feelings but that is okay. As a team, we need to be able to better understand one another and learn to deal with each other on a professional level. Keeping quiet can makes things worse for yourself and morale; things that need to be avoided as some may walk, leaving the team that much smaller.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 9 at 2019 9:33 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 Dec 2019 09:33:04 -0500

Somehow I missed this thread the first time around.
From a 1SG perspective, I can infer quite a bit from the 1SG's directive. There seems to be a culture in the unit where showing up for PT is optional. Five troops at PT is UNSAT. We don't know from the OP, but I'll wager another driver of this might be that the unit is not the best at APFT scores.
If my supposition is true, then the First Sergeant will make his point and then relax.
It is apparent that the 0530/1600 PT schedule is meant to accommodate two of the three shifts, and that it is illogical for some reason or another to conduct organized PT at midnight.
In the meantime, you're going to have to adapt your schedule, which shouldn't be all that hard with an 8-hour work shift. But I think that what makes sense is to have a pow wow within your shift to find a good course of action to propose to 1SG and let him know that his NCOs have got this and he can back off again - where any decent First Sergeant would prefer matters to be.
Since some time has passed, I am curious what the outcome was SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member

Response by SPC Leroy Herrera made Dec 9 at 2019 10:32 AM

SPC Leroy Herrera — Mon, 09 Dec 2019 10:32:51 -0500

What WOW you have it Made....
Hopefully you don't get deployed you can say goodbye to sleep....

Response by CMSgt George Barrett made Dec 9 at 2019 3:18 PM

CMSgt George Barrett — Mon, 09 Dec 2019 15:18:31 -0500

If the Commander says PT at 0530 or 1660, you go, period! Sounds like you have a great MOS as far as duty hours are, but you will follows orders or face the consequences.

Response by CPT Shane D. Metz made Dec 12 at 2019 11:50 AM

CPT Shane D. Metz — Thu, 12 Dec 2019 11:50:55 -0500

Stop Whining and start going to PT, if you are only getting 4-5 hours of sleep that is on you. PT is required of all Soldiers - Officers and Enlisted... it also the only dedicated 1.5 hrs of each day that is required to be scheduled on your weekly training Calendar.

Response by CPT Shane D. Metz made Dec 12 at 2019 11:52 AM

CPT Shane D. Metz — Thu, 12 Dec 2019 11:52:57 -0500

You can also do PT while at the hospital, you just need to talk to you PSG and PL to have it scheduled on the training calendar.

Response by SSG Craig Newton made Dec 13 at 2019 9:15 AM

SSG Craig Newton — Fri, 13 Dec 2019 09:15:12 -0500

You don’t. You go to PT at one of those times and go back to bed afterwards if you need more sleep.

Response by SGT Alfred Cox made Dec 15 at 2019 9:21 AM

SGT Alfred Cox — Sun, 15 Dec 2019 09:21:59 -0500

Yeah.. you solve it by getting out. I don't see an issue. either suck it up buttercup or get a DD-214.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2019 4:14 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Dec 2019 16:14:00 -0500

Your leadership knows your problem and is probably trying to figure out a way to look out for you. They might have their hands tied on the matter though so give them some time to work it out on their end. In the mean time start trying to figure out a good sleep schedule just in case they cant figure something out.

Response by CW3 Dan Mackey made Dec 15 at 2019 5:08 PM

CW3 Dan Mackey — Sun, 15 Dec 2019 17:08:50 -0500

Go to pt!!!!!! Pt is to keep you in shape to survive on the battle field it is not a punishment. Being tired will not get you out of the fight in combat your enemy will not hold the fight because you are tired!!! It is a great chance for you to discover your limitations and get stronger!!!! You're in the army not working at IBM.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2019 2:05 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Dec 2019 14:05:51 -0500

When it comes to "no show" to PT, the 1SG's reaction will always be right in my book, and regardless how radical and extreme his or her "reaction" may look like, (in reference to "no show" to PT). I will always support a legal, proper, and correct orders from any 1SG (male or female).
How do you bring this issue up and solve this effectively and professionally?
First of all, your case is not an issue.
Second of all, your 1SG put out that everyone must show up to PT at either the 0530 formation or the 1600 formation. Problem solve! You know, it takes a bad apple to spoil the bunch.
Make sure through your platoon Sergeant that your 1SG is aware that you scheduled your PT at 16:00. Oops! My Bad. You worked over night. Either way, you must do PT.
Third of all, you confused me a little by saying that your 1SG says that you have to be at the morning formation, and no exceptions.
He (your 1SG) must know something about you, if your statement is true (no offense).
As a former infantry Soldier stationed at Fort Hood with the 4ID, 2nd Brigade back in 2001-2004, four (4) to four and half (4 1/2) hours are enough sleep to show up for PT after an eight hours shift. In fact, I had to show up for PT formation after pulling 22- 24 hours CQ at the Brigade HQ, if not on PT details. Well, we would not win any battle if we cannot adjust. There was a time in Iraq, we had to pull tower duty on 4 hours on, 2 hours off continuously for about 2 weeks due to shortage in manpower. In Kuwait while getting ready to invade Iraq back in 2003, we took great care of our Bradleys all day in a hot sun in the desert until real late. Without any notice, (less than 2 hours) the 1SG just "voluntold" you to KQ, (10 hours shift) and then back to maintenance. We wish we could get rested for 4 hours. If this is a problem for you, you still have an option to not reenlist. As you may already knew, Army career is hard work , and it is not for every body.

Response by SP5 Hugh Brown made Dec 20 at 2019 10:22 PM

SP5 Hugh Brown — Fri, 20 Dec 2019 22:22:39 -0500

You’re whining. Suck it up or find another career field.

Response by PO2 Michael Rickey made Dec 26 at 2019 6:35 AM

PO2 Michael Rickey — Thu, 26 Dec 2019 06:35:53 -0500

For some reason I can't here u.

Response by SGT Dan Keeler made Dec 26 at 2019 7:30 PM

SGT Dan Keeler — Thu, 26 Dec 2019 19:30:27 -0500

This entire thread is kind of surprising to me. You are in the Army. You were ordered to be somewhere. You make it work. I worked 12 hour guard shifts, with Guard Mount 2 hours prior, and weapons draw an hour before that. That's 15 hours of my day. Plus, I still had to do PT. We worked 5 days a week. Plus, Our command liked to pull regular (at least once a month) 100% recall formations. Did we bellyache? Yup. Did we still show up? Yup. We slept when we could, and saw our families almost never. It sucked, but it's sometimes just the way it is. When your contract is up, remember this when they offer you that juicy reenlistment bonus....

Response by SFC Terry Bryant made Dec 26 at 2019 8:46 PM

SFC Terry Bryant — Thu, 26 Dec 2019 20:46:05 -0500

Suck it up and go to PT. Look, what if you are in a combat zone, you are in a fire fight and you catch cat naps for a few minutes at a time for up to several days. You train as you fight Soldier, so quit whining and do your job. Sorry if that sounded harsh. No actually I am not.

Response by SPC Bill Schatzman made Dec 30 at 2019 8:04 AM

SPC Bill Schatzman — Mon, 30 Dec 2019 08:04:55 -0500

welcome to the real world cupcake! I a seeing time management is not your thing! You need to adjust to the demands of the Officers and enlisted appointed over you. I is in the Oath you took. So, make it to formation, then take a nap. You will figure it out. Understand, if the Commanding Officer and his First Sargent give an order, it is your JOB to obey, not to question. There is nothing ILLEGAL about the order.

Response by LTC P.A. Viersen made Dec 30 at 2019 9:40 AM

LTC P.A. Viersen — Mon, 30 Dec 2019 09:40:48 -0500

Shift work is always tricky for a commander. You ARE stuck, as was I once, until I became an officer. Perhaps there can be an off shift PT period. Perhaps not. Perhaps you can sleep twice in a 16 hour period between shifts. The commander is on the hook to ensure PT is conducted by his/her unit. 1SG runs the company to fit the command guidance. IF the 1SG trusts you and your FLS - set up a 5 day per week PT plan and see how it goes, knowing that if ANYONE on your special PT shift fails the APFT or gets fat that you are all hosed and will have to suck up the initial policy that you are now trying to avoid.
Sleep/Rest plan is covered FM 6-22.5, however, that's for combat operations. ... Provide soldiers with a minimum of 4 hours of uninterrupted sleep in a 24 hour period (6-8 hours optimum).

Response by MAJ Neal O'Haire made Dec 30 at 2019 1:51 PM

MAJ Neal O'Haire — Mon, 30 Dec 2019 13:51:50 -0500

Hey I was with the 11th Cav in Germany as a 22 year old LT, I had to lead the 5 am PT daily, after many times closing the OClub at 1:00 AM, YOU CAN EITHER GO TO BED EARLIER OR GET UP AND QUIT WHINING! In the enlisted barracks lights out was at ten, sleep in your PT clothes and get up 6 1/2 hours later. If at you age 6 1/2 sleep doesn't do it, you might have chosen the wrong profession or branch of service!

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2019 6:47 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 30 Dec 2019 18:47:34 -0500

What you kneed to do is speak to you supervisor in the hospital and have them speak to the 1srg to adjust your schedule so you can PT at 1600 I am sure the hospital wont object if you have to PT than start your shift its a win win for all

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2019 9:35 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 30 Dec 2019 21:35:49 -0500

Suck it up, the rest of do/did.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2019 6:12 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Dec 2019 06:12:16 -0500

Are you the only one that has to go to the formation? I would say talk to other soldiers and NCOs and see if they have the same issue. Then use the open door policy with the 1SG or commander and address the issue. It’s always beneficial because you get a chance to see the other side of the mountain. As a junior enlisted, you don’t usually see how the command team made the decision and what their opinions are. Sometimes the command group means good but it goes bad when plans got put into practice. Last resort may be IG or EO. You are a warrior, if you can’t defend yourself how can you defend your country?
When I was junior enlisted, once I was put to a 18 hour shift every day in the field for 5 days. Everyone else was 12 hours on and 12 hours off. My NCO at the time just relayed the message to me- it was from a MSG. I felt it was really unfair but I still did it the first day. Next day I went to talk to the MSG. As a result both him and my NCO were mad at me. But nothing changed. I figured out I would have to endure this for a few more days. Can this be an IG complaint? Probably yes. Does it worth it? Everyone has a different answer. Remember, there are good times and bad times, but nothing lasts forever.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2019 2:01 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Dec 2019 14:01:54 -0500

I love the stupidity of many posts here. The only thing that matters... Including for the commander is mission accomplishment. What is a medical units standards according to objective-T or whatever readiness standard is appropriate.

If you require odd hours pt... Have those on odd hours lead it... Any e5 can do this...

We have ridiculous cultural standards for following uniform or or regs but we break a shit load of other regs... And don't know it.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2019 2:03 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Dec 2019 14:03:46 -0500

Whatever hardship anyone has endured is irrelevant to meeting the standard of care... And no I'm not medical... Just don't want a tired technician same as in aviation

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2019 7:16 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Dec 2019 19:16:10 -0500

The easiest way to solve this problem is by going to PT

Response by Sgt Jude Eschete made Dec 31 at 2019 9:05 PM

Sgt Jude Eschete — Tue, 31 Dec 2019 21:05:56 -0500

As a Marine Corps Veteran. Just go to PT and go back to sleep after. It's not that big of a deal.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2020 8:36 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 01 Jan 2020 08:36:46 -0500

My question would be, how is the rest of your section handling it or are you the only one struggling? If it's the section, you might be able to work out an exception to policy but that sounds like a good amount of sleep to me.

I do agree with others here, easiest solution is just show up and sound off then sleep around pt.

Response by SSG Alex Toulomelis made Jan 1 at 2020 10:51 AM

SSG Alex Toulomelis — Wed, 01 Jan 2020 10:51:11 -0500

You are in the Army, you will be called upon to perform multiple missions with a lack of sleep. So suck it up and go get after it.

Response by SCPO Ken Badoian made Jan 1 at 2020 11:22 AM

SCPO Ken Badoian — Wed, 01 Jan 2020 11:22:52 -0500

What a crock, it seems like a blizzard with a lot of snowflakes. Get a life,but of course you will never see combat RIGHT, try days w/o much sleep,humping 60-80 # up and down whatever, MRE's and little water - also seems like a breakdown in the chain. The policy was stated but not really enforced. Get out of the Army and join the boy scouts - When you got incoming you see how fast your sorry butt will run.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2020 11:35 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 01 Jan 2020 11:35:44 -0500

As you stated you have two options to report to formation. One at 0530 or the other at 1600. So why couldn't you report to the 1600 formation then go to work? Even if you had to get up at 0515, put on a PT uniform and stand in a 0530 formation. You still have logged roughly four hours of sleep. Stand in the formation for 15 minutes, then go back to bed.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2020 11:42 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 01 Jan 2020 11:42:04 -0500

Regulations support your First Sergeant. Pt is only one of 24 hours in a day. Put on your big boy pants and suck it up, buttercup.

Response by Sgt Gerald Smith made Jan 1 at 2020 3:19 PM

Sgt Gerald Smith — Wed, 01 Jan 2020 15:19:02 -0500

You sound exactly like you are whining. You should have no problem functioning for PT for an hour or two and then if you want to go back to sleep you can. Four to five hours of sleep is a luxury to a lot of people and most function on that amount on a regular bases. PT is part of military life if you don't like it, when your time is up get out and you won't have to worry about mandatory PT sessions.

Response by COL David S. made Jan 1 at 2020 6:16 PM

COL David S. — Wed, 01 Jan 2020 18:16:24 -0500

Bring it up with your platoon sergeant. In the meantime, suck it up!

Response by SPC Deborah Omsby Dixon made Jan 1 at 2020 6:51 PM

SPC Deborah Omsby Dixon — Wed, 01 Jan 2020 18:51:17 -0500

One answer: follow orders and suck it up. Period.

Response by 1SG Nelson Alequin made Jan 1 at 2020 9:35 PM

1SG Nelson Alequin — Wed, 01 Jan 2020 21:35:23 -0500

The military is not for everyone. If you can't hang with 4 to 5 hours, wait until you go three dats with none while deployed. Dont make your life miserable as well as those around you. Sounds like the candle burnt out and the time to focus on burning a different one has arrived.

Response by CSM Patrick Durr made Jan 2 at 2020 3:38 AM

CSM Patrick Durr — Thu, 02 Jan 2020 03:38:05 -0500

Forever, Medical and other shift type MOS's have had issues with maintaining high APFT scores. It's been a challenge for Command teams to ensure companies get the opportunity to do organized athletics. clearly you have at least one senior NCO that can advocate for you to the command team. He or she is in the same boat. With the New challenging Physical fitness test in place, and unit stats being everything, I'm sure the NEW command teams intentions are pure. Soldiers inclinations, unfortunately, are to avoid PT rather that do it in their off time. CDR/1SG's have to answer to higher when scores are low, or soldiers fail. if an Organized program isn't implemented and enforced, they fail. By regulation, a program must exist. It can't be: Soldiers will do PT on their own. You work an 8 hour shift, an hour at each end for personal hygiene, transportation, etc. That gives you 14 hours to do what else you please. I spent 32 in and in charge of Infantry Units. I'd have loved that luxury.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2020 5:01 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jan 2020 05:01:28 -0500

SPC,
I would talk to your NCOIC to explain the impact your sections work schedule is java having in the Lab Section and work a compromise after having a discussion with the 1SG. That schedule is unreasonable. Either the section does PT on their own (1430) or they are exempt from unit PT or the section changes their work hours - but that is a discussion between NCOIC/1SG/OIC. If I were the 1SG I would take into account the PT scores of the section and the leadership before making a decision.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2020 8:00 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jan 2020 08:00:56 -0500

Dadgum millennials!

Response by SGT James Murphy made Jan 2 at 2020 1:07 PM

SGT James Murphy — Thu, 02 Jan 2020 13:07:39 -0500

Have you ever seen the Navy Seal Series called BUDS? Just saying....

Response by 1SG Jason Almond made Jan 2 at 2020 2:03 PM

1SG Jason Almond — Thu, 02 Jan 2020 14:03:14 -0500

I get it. I had a similar problem when I worked at the GRSOC. I was intel and did shift work and had basically the same problem you did. We came off 12 hour shifts at 0600, then were told to wait around until 0900 for company PT. That put most of us in our beds around 1100 to sleep until 1630 and get up to do it again.

I was a platoon sergeant at the time so I had a better avenue to the 1SG. I approached her and laid my day to day timeline out (along with my entire platoon on my shift) and made a deal (took a risk) I had 48 in my platoon at the time and about 7 on a weight program. So I said if you'll give me 4 months where I run PT for my platoon on my schedule, I'll get all of them back in regs.

It so happened it worked. Well....mostly. My entire platoon was obviously supportive of the idea and they understood the deal. We got 5 of them off of the PT program and chaptered the other 2 out of the Army. If you've never done a ht/wt separation, you have no idea how many steps there are and how easy it is to get your packet thrown out. I digress....

My point here (because I've been on both sides of this problem) is that your 1SG/CO probably have too many PT failures, too many overwieghts, and an accountability problem. (Medica and MI--we are a lot alike) So they throw the hammer down. So in my opinion, no--it's not sustainable to ask a platoon full of SMs to do PT at what would be the equivalent of the middle of the night. I'm assuming your rotation is every 6 months? If it is a month to month thing then I would tell you to get over it.

Use your COC and openly ask your SL/PSG what you can do to help. Are you part of the problem? Are you overweight? Are you a PT failure of close to it? I've never heard of any command team who is 100% on PT/ Body metric standards who aren't pretty easy to get along with.

Response by 1SG Jason Almond made Jan 2 at 2020 2:03 PM

1SG Jason Almond — Thu, 02 Jan 2020 14:03:23 -0500

Response by Sgt Michael Diasparra made Jan 2 at 2020 3:49 PM

Sgt Michael Diasparra — Thu, 02 Jan 2020 15:49:16 -0500

You've got to be kidding me. So you join the military knowing full well the type of "tough love" that is part of the culture and whine about having to PT on very little sleep. all I can say is good luck when you get deployed because you'll get less than that depending on your MOS and theatre you deploy too. Suck it up snowflake....

Response by Seth Wallace made Jan 2 at 2020 4:45 PM

Seth Wallace — Thu, 02 Jan 2020 16:45:00 -0500

embrace the suck put your big boy pants on and do it

Response by Seth Wallace made Jan 2 at 2020 4:49 PM

Seth Wallace — Thu, 02 Jan 2020 16:49:21 -0500

embrace the suck and put your big boy pants on and do it what seals go 24 hrs no sleep straight pt the whole time so you cant say a body cant do it on 4-5hrs of sleep

Response by SFC Wanda Estes made Jan 2 at 2020 6:13 PM

SFC Wanda Estes — Thu, 02 Jan 2020 18:13:48 -0500

I hate to say it quite so blunt. But I'll tell you like they used to tell us. Suck it up buttercup do your job. We went for days during training with no sleep and still had to do PT. Trust me it really sucks right now but in the interim you will become a stronger and better person for it. Good luck.

Response by PO3 Timothy Thomas made Jan 2 at 2020 6:46 PM

PO3 Timothy Thomas — Thu, 02 Jan 2020 18:46:21 -0500

I was Navy. And my answer may not be relevant to your circumstance. But maybe it'll provide a perspective.
Aboard the USS South Carolina as a radio and satellite Communication Electronics Technician I was responsible for the repair and maintenance of a lot of critical systems.
One night I was exhausted. So going to the Chief I asked him if I could get some sleep and fix the radio in the morning.
His standing order for the reminder of my deployment on that Ship, "We're only required to give you ONE hour of sleep per night. Petty Officer Thomas, you may not go to bed until ALL of your Equipment is up."
During the time I was up sometimes 2 and 3 days straight. On a nor-eastern 3 month cruise, I was up all day- all night and all day the next day. Slept 1900-0700 and did it again.
They have the right to ask you to do it. It's a lawful order. I was exhausted many times. But I became a Super Tech. Memorizing block diagrams and schematics. Learning how to use it to get fast results. Then that Chief added another stipulation to my work.
I had to tag each module, if it was a module swap, with every defective component.
Another ET would replace the parts and test it. I HAD to be right in my troubleshooting.
What you take back from being pushed is how much you can do and overcome.

Response by SPC Brian Mason made Jan 2 at 2020 7:59 PM

SPC Brian Mason — Thu, 02 Jan 2020 19:59:58 -0500

If you haven't been on a deployment yet, then this is very minor compared to it.Sleep deprivation isn't fun but your body can handle it. I don't know the regs but in prep for a deployment that means a soldier's ability to withstand a lot of stress, little sleep, and continued physical exercise.
I've done a lot of stuff while in the military that made me feel off and on rare occasions sick to my stomach. As a Medic, we had to have our Aid Bags on us almost all the time or in an ambulance.
Deployments aren't easy. You are a soldier first and are defending this country, those you love, and complete strangers; many of which will spit and insult you b/c they are ignorant. Military standards should return to the higher point they were but that is another topic.

Response by SFC David Fullmer made Jan 2 at 2020 9:54 PM

SFC David Fullmer — Thu, 02 Jan 2020 21:54:05 -0500

Max your APFT and take advantage of any command policy allowing high scores to PT on their own.

Response by SSgt Tim Self made Jan 2 at 2020 11:24 PM

SSgt Tim Self — Thu, 02 Jan 2020 23:24:53 -0500

A 6 hour shift. Like going in at 0730, getting off at 1330. Would you go to bed then or wait till 2200? Time management is key. Adjusting your short schedule to match the 1sg requirements is the solution.

Response by SGT Jody Beach made Jan 3 at 2020 11:01 AM

SGT Jody Beach — Fri, 03 Jan 2020 11:01:25 -0500

I do believe that Army is only required to give you 4 hours of sleep a night.

Response by Sgt Peter McDonald made Jan 3 at 2020 11:13 AM

Sgt Peter McDonald — Fri, 03 Jan 2020 11:13:24 -0500

What if you're in combat...are you going to tell the enemy to come back when you are better rested.
4 to 5 hours sleep is ample rest for you to PT. Once you're done, you can shower and take a nap.
It sucks that your schedule is not accommodating, but PT is not every day. We who have served have been through this....it is the nature of the beast.

Response by SGT John Graham made Jan 3 at 2020 2:47 PM

SGT John Graham — Fri, 03 Jan 2020 14:47:50 -0500

Are you a Spec. 4 Mafia member? If not consult one. The members are virtuoso of the workaround; some even legal! That being said, work through the standard channels. Command will very likely accommodate a alternate schedule. Don't try to "skate", despite my introductory statement. Instead, try to be flexible and innovative with a solution.

Response by CPO O'shay Morris made Jan 3 at 2020 3:41 PM

CPO O'shay Morris — Fri, 03 Jan 2020 15:41:13 -0500

You suck it up buttercup and go PT. You guys have no idea how good you have it.

Response by PFC Stephen Trynosky made Jan 3 at 2020 6:46 PM

PFC Stephen Trynosky — Fri, 03 Jan 2020 18:46:57 -0500

You are a soldier. We are coming off the 75th Anniversary of the Battle of the Bulge which was an all hands operation including cooks, bakers, mechanics, and hospital medics. The enemy will not give you eight hours sleep. If you cannot handle that, leave after your current enlistment. there are a great many suburban police departments who will not only pay you a lot better but allow you to doze off on duty on a regular basis. Note: Stay away from Big City Police Departments.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 3 at 2020 8:17 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 03 Jan 2020 20:17:01 -0500

you are whining! It sounds like that unit had soft leaders and the soldiers got use to it. I wonder what the physical fitness level of that unit is, probably not good.

Response by CPO Gerald Rahm made Jan 4 at 2020 11:46 AM

CPO Gerald Rahm — Sat, 04 Jan 2020 11:46:49 -0500

Don't be such a pussy get over it. You sound like I ran out of bullets and its time to go home. Suck it up and move on.

Response by Cpl Richard Baccarie made Jan 4 at 2020 3:04 PM

Cpl Richard Baccarie — Sat, 04 Jan 2020 15:04:56 -0500

Do as your told. And please shut up. Come on man your in the United States Military. Are kidding me......

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2020 3:30 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 04 Jan 2020 15:30:50 -0500

The fact that something can be done, or has been done a certain way in the past, is a poor reason to do it going forward. It is certainly a potentially relevant factor, but does not suffice as a sole criterion to justify a policy.

For better or for worse (and it seems there are a lot of those on this forum who would consider it for worse), the Army has recognized that maximizing human performance requires changing some of its practices. To this end, the Army as an institution and profession is promoting what it calls the "Performance Triad" which includes adequate sleep as one of three essential elements for maximizing performance.

Can we "suck it up" to get through a mission, operation, surge shift at the hospital, or whatever? Sure! But evidence-based research demonstrates that sleep deprivation, especially over prolonged periods, leads to sub-optimal decision-making and that leads to sub-optimal performance.

the leadership of a medical unit should know this better than any other kind of unit, as the Performance Triad is heavily promoted by the Army Medical Department. See, for instance, https://p3.amedd.army.mil/performance-learning-center/sleep, a resource that can help identify factors that lead to sleep deprivation and educate leaders on the possible consequences and steps they can take to mitigate and reduce the risk. This is something that not enough Soldiers or units take seriously.

As to the original question of how to bring up the issue. The Performance Triad is (or should be) being taught through various Professional Military Education courses. I also saw it in a pre-command course for First Sergeants and Company Commanders some years back, though I don't know if it's formally part of the program of instruction. Master Fitness Trainers should certainly be in a position to advise the leadership team on the topic, my understanding is that they are trained on the resources available through Army Wellness Centers. However you bring up the topic of the Performance Triad politely and professionally through your chain of command, there are institutional resources to help educate them on its importance and their role(s).

Separately, if you find that sleep deprivation is impacting your health (it can and often does), identify that to your own primary care manager independently or through your period health assessment. It may be that the time you have really is sufficient, but you have something else going on that results in your sleep not being restful enough. A sleep study would identify if there is a larger concern that needs to be addressed for you.

sleep

Response by CSM Ralph Hernandez made Jan 4 at 2020 8:39 PM

CSM Ralph Hernandez — Sat, 04 Jan 2020 20:39:33 -0500

Suck it up and drive on. When you will get even less! Good training!

Response by SGT John Pearson made Jan 4 at 2020 9:48 PM

SGT John Pearson — Sat, 04 Jan 2020 21:48:40 -0500

I really liked my time in the Army, with one exception, lack of sleep. It wasn't just me, it was my company in general. We got pretty good at taking power naps when we could. When I became an NCO it could be even worse at times. I remember being up for 36 hours straight once during a field exercise. Learn to be creative if you can't work something out with command.

Response by CPL Joseph Elinger made Jan 5 at 2020 3:10 AM

CPL Joseph Elinger — Sun, 05 Jan 2020 03:10:16 -0500

It's PT, not a PT Test dude! Come on! Seriously, on occasion we'd come in drunk from the evening & straight to PT. I was 23 & didn't puke, some of the young ones did.
Considering your duty shift, if your NCOIC wanted to, the whole shift could do PT together right after duty. PT is a mutual obligation your branch shares with you to meet consistent fitness. Think it out, is it important enough to you & your shift persons to request? If do, approach the NCOIC through Chain of Command. It's a valid request, for a valid consideration, to a valid solution. If requested properly, it will be seriously considered.

Response by PO1 Dell Hart made Jan 5 at 2020 10:54 AM

PO1 Dell Hart — Sun, 05 Jan 2020 10:54:51 -0500

Suck it up or get out. Quit being a whiner.

Response by Sgt Ivan Boatwright made Jan 5 at 2020 11:43 AM

Sgt Ivan Boatwright — Sun, 05 Jan 2020 11:43:04 -0500

In Nam sometimes we would get only two hours of sleep and an alert would sound and then no more that night. Sometimes you sleep two and two off and then go fill sandbags, go on patrol, or whatever with no rest during the day. You could hump the boonies all night and then work or fight the next day. Bootcamp should have taught you that you can do more on less than you think you need. That means, less food, less water, dirty clothes, and no bath unless it rains. Accept and expect those facts or get a discharge before combat. After this week it may be very close and deadly. I think it was Tet of 68 when a nurse I grew up with was in Tokyo hospital and she told me later when we were both out that she went on duty one day and the wounded were flying in by chopper one after another after arriving in Japan that the rooms filled as well as the halls. The nurses were on 24-hour shifts. She was exhausted when a person on a table at night asked her to wipe his face, she almost said something nasty but stopped herself and saw he had no arms. She went into a room and cried. Her name was Bonnie Watson. Yes, she is real and she survived but was burned out by the pain, suffering, and stupidity of war. War is for the young stupid men who do not question to fight for the rich and powerful to profit from.

Response by SPC Brian Pritchard/Hall made Jan 5 at 2020 7:44 PM

SPC Brian Pritchard/Hall — Sun, 05 Jan 2020 19:44:52 -0500

Suck it up. Go take shower and go back to bed.

Response by SSG Steve Jackson made Jan 5 at 2020 9:28 PM

SSG Steve Jackson — Sun, 05 Jan 2020 21:28:35 -0500

Hey this is Military Life, I get it but again this is military life. If you really want to brake it down you can sleep the 4 to 5 hours before PT then eat and go back to bed and that will give you at least 7 hours sleep. Your hours don't give you that night time play but you do have choices

Response by M Nob made Jan 5 at 2020 11:36 PM

M Nob — Sun, 05 Jan 2020 23:36:07 -0500

Ummm.... I live my life on 5 hours of sleep...
What are you going to do when you’re up all night with a sick kid? Are you going to tell your boss you can’t get your job done? Are you kidding? Get with the program. Figure it out! You sound like a snowflake!

Response by TSgt Robert Wayne made Jan 5 at 2020 11:43 PM

TSgt Robert Wayne — Sun, 05 Jan 2020 23:43:22 -0500

All I'm hearing is you have a problem with authority always looking for a way out and can't be trusted by your team mates if you get deployed to a hots spot like Kuwait. Go to PT!

Response by SP5 Derick Johnsohne made Jan 6 at 2020 5:37 AM

SP5 Derick Johnsohne — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 05:37:51 -0500

good for party, good for work . came off duty 5 hrs ago ? back on duty when the call comes . on the front line, will you go back up if you had only 5 hrs of sleep ? methinks so . tuck it in, grab your balls and swallow it .

Response by SPC Nancy Detwiler made Jan 6 at 2020 8:12 AM

SPC Nancy Detwiler — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 08:12:59 -0500

Oh my! As a veteran, I now work as a nurse, I’m LUCKY to get 4-5 hours of sleep before getting up to do it all over again. Prioritize to do what you need to do, and remember, it won’t last forever.

Response by TSgt James Potter made Jan 6 at 2020 9:34 AM

TSgt James Potter — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 09:34:58 -0500

With this thread being almost 7 months old. I would like to know what the out come was.

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Jan 6 at 2020 1:05 PM

SPC Byron Skinner — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 13:05:28 -0500

Byron Skinner. This the Army, nobody sen you a draft notice, you are part of the US Army which has no time clocks. Nor does the enemy.

Response by SFC David Dean made Jan 6 at 2020 1:23 PM

SFC David Dean — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 13:23:52 -0500

I can say that a question like this shows that the individual is in a civilian mindset. From a personal level, I have gone to PT after being a CQ all night. You train to be prepared for combat and deprivations like sleep are part of the equation. If you want to always have everything then you shouldn't have joined the military.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Jan 6 at 2020 1:36 PM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 13:36:05 -0500

This is where a conversation with your supervisor needs to take place and it goes up the chain. SNCO and Officers etc etc. A compromise may be found somewhere there in the middle. It may require your section to PT before or after your shift schedule but this is all something that can be hashed out in a conversation.

Response by SPC Linda Chandler made Jan 6 at 2020 2:06 PM

SPC Linda Chandler — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 14:06:10 -0500

Ok I work in a hospital with some fine soldiers, they run PT at 1930 hours after getting off day shift. These women and men are out there after having a second wind. Also you get lunch take those 30 mins and shut your eyes.

Now that I said that, I will say this. When i was in and we were in alert I let my people know they got 4 hours of sleep: if you choices to waste your time driving home or what ever you’re doing that’s on you.

I will ask you this since you’re working in a hospital what floor are you working? ICU Surgery which? Are you working a clinic? I worked trauma the whole time I was in, in the field and in the hospital.

My last question is this. You are In the military right? If you go overseas deployed what are you going to do?

Response by PVT Carl Hockett made Jan 6 at 2020 3:11 PM

PVT Carl Hockett — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 15:11:36 -0500

Yeah, grow a pair and follow orders. Sounds like a lawful one to me. I'm with SFC Michael D. on this.

Response by SGT Gary Reed made Jan 6 at 2020 8:55 PM

SGT Gary Reed — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 20:55:27 -0500

Suck it up Butter cup. Do you think our enemies care how much sleep you've had? They will kill you tired or well rested and never look back.

Response by SFC Jim Turner made Jan 7 at 2020 1:03 AM

SFC Jim Turner — Tue, 07 Jan 2020 01:03:43 -0500

If you don't have to be on duty until 1600, then go back to bed after PT.

Response by LTC Ray Morris made Jan 7 at 2020 9:37 AM

LTC Ray Morris — Tue, 07 Jan 2020 09:37:58 -0500

Have you ever considered selling shoes for a living? Something along those lines? Anything but being a soldier?

Response by MSG Narda Ruiz made Jan 7 at 2020 9:45 AM

MSG Narda Ruiz — Tue, 07 Jan 2020 09:45:51 -0500

This is part of being a soldier. You should be able to attend PT after 4 to 5 hours of sleep and since your work shift is from 1600 - 0000, then take a shower and go back to sleep if you need. It's an order and you need to keep fit, so don't question your 1SG!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2020 2:00 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Jan 2020 14:00:56 -0500

At the end of the day, they need to put this in a policy or SOP. Once they do, use the open door and encourage them to choose reasonable times through providing a solution to the problem you, as i imagine others also see it. If they refuse to assist in making necessary changes, go to the next level of your command and explain your efforts. If that dont work, IG.

Response by SGT Alan Simmons made Jan 7 at 2020 4:32 PM

SGT Alan Simmons — Tue, 07 Jan 2020 16:32:08 -0500

You go to PT. That's what you do. In basic training (1989) at the Benning School for Wayward Boys, we were told that by regulation, they only had to give us FOUR hours of sleep a night. And for the first two weeks, that's all we got!

I learned real quick, thanks to basic training, deployments, and duty rosters to sleep when I could. As I remember the wisdom of Drill Sergeant Boone's words, "in a combat zone, you don't get downtime to get comfy in your bunk!"

In the case of the OP, it sounds like she is caught between the unit's command and the first-line supervisor. It's a tough place to be in, for sure. Does your first sergeant have an "open door" policy for you to utilize? Does your first-line supervisor have an open door policy, also? There's nothing wrong (when a respectful tone is used) of asking your first-line supervisor for clarification. If the new company policy is written down, find a copy of that.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Jan 7 at 2020 4:41 PM

SSgt Boyd Herrst — Tue, 07 Jan 2020 16:41:41 -0500

Easy.. do what they say and when it comes to push-up time, do some and then down for the count.. z-z-z-z-z.

Response by MAJ John Moran made Jan 7 at 2020 5:17 PM

MAJ John Moran — Tue, 07 Jan 2020 17:17:08 -0500

For starters, what are the circumstances that are leading you to only get 4-5 hours of sleep? Assuming PT formation is at 0600, are you getting off duty at 2400-0100? if that is the case, then you need to ask your immediate supervisor to work with you on arranging alternate PT times. If you're coming in at midnight from the club, or a second job, or seeing your girl etc., then your lack of sleep is a you problem, and not an Army problem.

So, if your sleep cycle is being regularly interrupted due to late duty and early PT, you are well within your rights to request that your chain of command give you accommodations. if your sleep cycle is being interrupted by your personal off-duty choices, then no, be a grown-up and get yourself into bed at a decent hour.

Response by SPC Sam Russell made Jan 8 at 2020 7:03 AM

SPC Sam Russell — Wed, 08 Jan 2020 07:03:17 -0500

The only way to solve this is to suck it up. There will be times where you'll have no sleep and be expected to ruck up and move on. Four to five hours of sleep feels like a God send really. I don't know why this wasn't hammered home in basic training, but someone failed you.

The military isn't some cookie cutter job. It's exactly as it sounds, it's the military. I don't know why everyone thinks it's nothing but rainbows and blowjobs.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2020 8:30 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jan 2020 08:30:20 -0500

Regulation cant save you on this one. Ultimately I see three possible COAs

1. Do the PT at 0530 cause it's an Army thing we do.

2. Talk to your shift NCOIC and see if he/she can get an approved alt time for entire swing shift.

3. Get a 300 on next APFT and a 540 or higher on ACFT and request to do your own thing because it works.

Outside those options not much else you can do. PT isnt an option is part of being a Soldier. The have 4 hours sleep is a BS excuse. You work 8 hours in 24 hour day that's 16 hours to get 8 hours of sleep. Which is a lot of sleep for any soldier. Most soldiers in Army do PT from 0630 to 0800 so they are at work at 0600. They get off between 1700 and 1800 on avg day. These troops are at the unit for 11 to 12 hours a day. Seniors that day starts around 0500 and ends around 1900-2100 on avg. If this situation you are in is that bothersome I would consider your career choices. My guess is that this is your first duty station. Medcom is a very different place than anything else in Army.

If you were in a Charlie med you would do PT as early as 0400 so you could be at clinic by 0545 for sick call and work till 1800. Hell even Med PLTs work more than you. Just saying you are better to enjoy the inconvenience and make yourself better so when u do actually go do 68W job you will be stronger, faster and ready for the challenges it presents. Noone wants a fat, slow, lazy medic!

Response by SFC Bert Linson made Jan 8 at 2020 10:23 AM

SFC Bert Linson — Wed, 08 Jan 2020 10:23:37 -0500

LOL. That was a daily occurrence for me during BNCOC and ANCOC back in the 90's.

Response by PO2 Travis Branch made Jan 8 at 2020 10:46 AM

PO2 Travis Branch — Wed, 08 Jan 2020 10:46:12 -0500

I too worked that shift in the Navy. We had the same schedule for PT. Unfortunately that is part of the process and will probably not change. We made it work and it was hard but made us better and even showed up on our evals.

Response by CPL Angelika Guilbe made Jan 8 at 2020 2:14 PM

CPL Angelika Guilbe — Wed, 08 Jan 2020 14:14:00 -0500

Thats part of the job, and theres reasoning, because when you have to pull 24hr duty or guard you have to be ready for anything especially while deployed

Response by PO2 Joan Feledy made Jan 8 at 2020 2:54 PM

PO2 Joan Feledy — Wed, 08 Jan 2020 14:54:40 -0500

I cannot really sympathize with the 5 hours of sleep time for most of my time in 5 hours would be amazing. On shore duty though, I usually got a pretty good sleep time and on shore duty I was never on swing shift, like on a deployment, which seemed to be consistently swinging shift. Anyhow, I would bring it up to your immediate swing chain, officer in charge, to ask that maybe an alternate pt time could be an hour prior to shift or immediately after shift. This should not be unreasonable. Now not sure what an Army deployment time schedule is like, but mine was very hectic and sleep was always desired. We, in engineering, did an 8-hr workday plus two 4 hour watches. ON the bad days your two watches did not coincide with the workday, which resulted in 4 hours of sleep and not always in succession. On the good days at least one of the watches was during the workday, allowing for longer downtime. Now this did not take into effect GQ's or other drills (usually held during normal working hours) so if one was night shift, those sucked even more. Needless to say, sleeping in the military is considered more of a benefit than a right. Its not always right or good, but you have to take the good and the bad.

Response by SFC Charles Dennis made Jan 8 at 2020 7:43 PM

SFC Charles Dennis — Wed, 08 Jan 2020 19:43:17 -0500

Are you unable to manage your time effectively so that you can get the rest you feel you need? Was this a surprise PT session on a regular day off? If not, did you talk to your NCO?

Response by CPL David Estes made Jan 8 at 2020 8:25 PM

CPL David Estes — Wed, 08 Jan 2020 20:25:45 -0500

I may be misspeaking here because I've been out since 1991 but when I was in, unless you were currently on guard duty or CQ you were expected to be a PT every morning. My first duty assignment was in West Germany with the 2/11 ACR. My First Sergeant was First Sergeant Morgan who was a real hard ass. Unless you were in the Hospital, he expected you to be at PT at 0530. If you weren't, he would have your ass.

I arrived at Daily Barracks around midnight my first day in country. My unit was at the border at the time so there was only a few people at the barracks. It was after 2am by the time I got assigned my room. 0500 the next morning, First Sergeant Morgan kicked open my door and told me to get my ass up and outside for PT. It was about 20 degrees outside and over 3' of snow on the ground. Talk about a wake up call.

If I remember right, Army regulations say that you are required to get 4 hours of sleep in a 24 hour period unless you're on guard duty, CQ or something like that. Those 4 hours do not have to be continuous. Of course this does not apply in combat. But like I said earlier, that was 30 years ago. Things might be different now.

Response by SGT Will Perkins made Jan 9 at 2020 6:47 AM

SGT Will Perkins — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 06:47:00 -0500

Are you fucking kidding me??? Shut the fuck up and get your ass to FUCKING FORMATION!! You're not going to be able to stop a war and say oh hey I can't do my job because I've only gotten 4-5 hrs of sleep. Military regs state you're supposed to get no less than 4-5 hrs of sleep....guess what cupcake it doesn't say they have to be CONTINUOUSLY! STOP BEING A BITCH AND SUCK IT UP. If you don't have duty til 1600 that's plenty of time to sleep the rest of the day. Get your little 3 hr power nap go do pt then come home and go to sleep

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2020 7:37 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 07:37:10 -0500

I'm old, but I worked nights most of my time in. Mandatory formations were always at a bad time. You could speak with your supervisor, it you do not get a satisfactory response you could try following the chain of command. I am going to be honest, If I was your supervisor I would just think you were a whiner.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2020 11:53 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 11:53:15 -0500

Let's not compare going to the club and getting drunk to regularly having a schedule.

Also, if and entire section has a schedule, that's not an individual person issue.

I'm not necessarily saying the suggestions here are totally wrong, but some of your reasonings are fucktarded.

Response by SPC Ronald Paul made Jan 9 at 2020 1:24 PM

SPC Ronald Paul — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 13:24:21 -0500

I was in the army in at 17. In basic training we were supposed to have four hrs. of sleep at night. we might get no sleep one night and eight hrs. the next. That equals eight hrs. in two nights. If you can not handle four hrs. of sleep you need tp consider a new field.

Response by MAJ Jack Perry made Jan 9 at 2020 2:03 PM

MAJ Jack Perry — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 14:03:25 -0500

You do your job. You do it with passion, love, and sense of duty above and beyond. Don't fall into a pattern of mediocracy and whining, it won't get you anywhere but angry and frustrated.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2020 2:22 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 14:22:12 -0500

This was 7 months ago, so I’m guessing the issue has been resolved. I am a section NCOIC at an MTF with 24-Hour staffing. My guess is that your 1SG isn’t aware of your time crunch, or doesn’t realize how this is negatively affecting your sleep patterns. I’m a nurse, I understand that you need to be well rested to do our jobs optimally. SM and their dependents rely on us to be at the top of our game... but you gotta do PT.

At my MTC our leadership empowers me to train my shift working soldiers at a time that’s appropriate for their schedule that will maximize their effectiveness when treating patients. Your 1SG is a 68series too, and will understand the importance of an adequate sleep cycle.

I don’t find the hours you’re presenting unreasonable, but you should let your NCOIC know how this is affecting you negatively, present a solution, and see where it goes. Again, my shift working soldiers (who work 12 hour shifts, not 8 lucky) get more days off than most soldiers, and attend a PT session with other troops who work that shift schedule.

Morning PT at most MTFs is for soldiers who work the day shift. Honestly, your schedule is kind of unusual, maybe not for 68Ks but I’ve never heard of a 1600-0000 shift.

Response by SGT Jd Cox made Jan 9 at 2020 3:40 PM

SGT Jd Cox — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 15:40:19 -0500

You're not going to like my answer. You don't fix it. You show up for PT as ordered. Otherwise you open yourself up for NJP via article 15. I can remember many times having to do things I didn't like while in the military. That's the life you chose, volunteer Army and all. I'm pretty old school, but I can remember things like 72 hour ARTEPs where NO ONE slept. You did your job without sleep for 72 hours straight. We had Field problems that lasted days, and we were expected to be soldiers. Your 1st SGT got a case of the red ass when only 5 people showed up for PT. As the senior NCO in a company, he is entitled, allowed and expected to make corrections. This is a corrective measure. No doubt, as the first shirt is most likely an E8, or a Senior E7, the NCO/Section Chief meeting that precipitated this response was direct, and swift and sure. You seem to be laboring under the delusion that this is some how wrong, unfair, or that you feel inconvenienced. My sense is that your unit discipline was too relaxed in the first place if only 5 individuals felt the need to attend a mandatory formation. Military discipline is a necessity of the job. BCT was all about molding you into a soldier. You are a soldier first, and Lab technician second, don't confuse the order of things. That is why the Army also requires you to maintain your weight and qualify with a weapon. I can guarantee that if ANY 1st Sgt. shows up at a 0530 PT formation with only 5 members of his company with him, they will directly address the issue with their NCO corp, and this will happen every time. So if you are looking to blame someone, look to your left and right. In my mind, every soldier and NCO in your unit allowed this to happen with the lackadaisical approach to military discipline.

Response by MSG Allan Davis made Jan 9 at 2020 4:28 PM

MSG Allan Davis — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 16:28:02 -0500

Suck it up buttercup! Apparently no one told you that you’re in the Army and we have no room for snowflakes! You are supposed to be a warrior..... at least fake it.

Response by Maj J B made Jan 9 at 2020 5:22 PM

Maj J B — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 17:22:39 -0500

Sounds like you have a good 1stSgt!! Be tough you joined the military and thank god there are still leaders that hold people accountable.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2020 5:38 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 17:38:26 -0500

Drill Sergeants get less sleep than that.
For us here on the trail it’s all about time management.
Luckily for me so far, when the trainees do not require DS presence, we would do shifts in that timeframe so the drills can try to get a break here and there during training. So far I have seen some good feedback on this post. Best of luck.

Response by Cpl Michael Littleton made Jan 9 at 2020 9:21 PM

Cpl Michael Littleton — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 21:21:07 -0500

First if at 20 something you can’t live on 5 hours

Response by SSG Shawn Armstrong made Jan 9 at 2020 9:27 PM

SSG Shawn Armstrong — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 21:27:48 -0500

Have you ever read something so stupid, it makes you squint?

Response by 1stSgt Jeff Blovat made Jan 9 at 2020 10:00 PM

1stSgt Jeff Blovat — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 22:00:36 -0500

He let you sleep that long?

Response by 1LT Shaun Ray made Jan 9 at 2020 11:58 PM

1LT Shaun Ray — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 23:58:49 -0500

AR 30-22
FM 22-51
FM 6-22.5 CH 4

Basically you are required a minimum of 4 hours of continuous sleep with 6-8 hours preferred to maximize the effectiveness of the Soldier.

Now, if the 1SG says go to PT he is the NCOIC and it his world that you just operate within. Drink a cup of suck it up and make yourself a stronger Soldier. You are in the Army not a civilian job. There are no days off, just down time.
So, if you feel compelled to challenge your top NCO in the company spouting off regulations...let me know how that goes for you. He is either going to admire that you took the time to research regs OR more than likely smoke you until he gets tired (staying within regulations in the most creative way possible without getting in trouble).
The catch all answer, ask your first line supervisor and quit being weak. What are you going to do in actual war when PT, stamina, and discipline will keep you alive? Nah, 1SG I'm not getting up yet for the mission. I've only had 3 1/2 hours sleep. POG.

Response by CH (CPT) Tino Villalovas made Jan 10 at 2020 11:52 AM

CH (CPT) Tino Villalovas — Fri, 10 Jan 2020 11:52:06 -0500

I see this is old, but I’ll go on record anyway in case someone else is dealing with this problem.
I was an Army chaplain, so you can imagine I would want to display a measure of sensitivity to your situation. My bottom-line answer is that you need to go to PT.

There are some valid reasons that a Soldier should be excused from PT, but lack of sleep isn’t one of them. I know it must be very hard pushing through when you feel so exhausted but nevertheless, you need to be at PT.

Think of it this way. When you go to the field, you may not be able to get an ideal amount of sleep, but you still must focus on the mission. This is especially the case, when it’s a combat deployment
Each time I was deployed, it was common for me and my Soldiers to get little sleep. It was rough and unfortunate, but other than very rare instances, the mission must come first. Getting little sleep now might very well prepare you to be better equipped to handle a combat deployment when lives would be at risk if you failed to do your jobs to the best of your ability.

Remember this. Regardless of our MOS, our job is to be combat multipliers. Plain and simple. Our job is to win wars in the most humane way possible so that ultimately, we can save lives in the long run.

There are a few other things I would say. Perhaps you could talk to your platoon SGT (after letting your squad leader know) and see if there’s something he/she can do to make your schedule easier or allow you to do individual PT. Perhaps you could negotiate and offer to do some other kind of duty that would make up for their granting you some accommodations. If they won’t, then I’m afraid you just need to push through.

And I would not recommend going to your 1SGT. That may not go well for you. And certainly, don’t do it without your platoon SGT’s knowledge. That would go very, very badly for you. Trust me on this.

Another consideration (though it doesn’t seem to apply to your situation) is that I’m pretty sure that regulations state that a soldier is required to be allowed four hours sleep a night except in extreme circumstances, such a combat operations. Even then, four hours may not be always possible.

If your 1SGT or CDR was regularly putting you in situations where you couldn’t get at least four hours sleep for extended periods of time and there were not extreme mission demands (such as combat operations) and he/she is consistently unwilling to hear you out, then it might be time to seek out your chaplain. That would be an ethics violation that requires chaplain intervention. I’ve been in situations where CDR’s NCO’s were abusing their Soldiers and I had to intervene. Those situations are rare, but unfortunately, they do happen. I don’t think this applies to your situation though.

The only other thing I would say is that if you genuinely think it’s a health issue, you could go to sick call to see if there’s something you can do to make your sleep more restful. However, I wouldn’t make a habit of going to sick call unless your pretty sure it could be a health-related issue. That would go badly for your as well. The bottom line is that our job is to be combat multipliers and that means being in good physical shape. That means a Soldier needs to be at PT.

I know it’s hard, but that’s part of what it means to be a Soldier. I hope this helps.

Response by SSG Clayton Lam made Jan 10 at 2020 12:24 PM

SSG Clayton Lam — Fri, 10 Jan 2020 12:24:06 -0500

Go to PT. Take a nap during your break before you have to report to work or during lunch.

Response by CPL Daniel Lotito made Jan 10 at 2020 12:25 PM

CPL Daniel Lotito — Fri, 10 Jan 2020 12:25:26 -0500

Get up and go do PT

Response by SFC Charles Temm made Jan 10 at 2020 7:30 PM

SFC Charles Temm — Fri, 10 Jan 2020 19:30:22 -0500

Be thankful you aren't in a line unit. We'd come back from the field early morning, get cleaned up and be told PT was at normal time. Married guys wouldn't even bother going home, stuff like that normal tho we didn't like it anymore than you apparently.

4-5 hours of sleep is more than many troops get during the normal scheme of things, this may suck but if shit ever hits the fan you'll likely get by w/far less rest and a lot more stress

Response by MGySgt Rick Tyrrell made Jan 10 at 2020 8:19 PM

MGySgt Rick Tyrrell — Fri, 10 Jan 2020 20:19:09 -0500

I am sure this is not a daily event. Suck it up and go PT. Sleep is over rated any way

Response by SGT Quentin Moore made Jan 11 at 2020 3:56 AM

SGT Quentin Moore — Sat, 11 Jan 2020 03:56:43 -0500

Take your 4th point of contact to pt

Response by Maj Charles Porter made Jan 12 at 2020 6:31 PM

Maj Charles Porter — Sun, 12 Jan 2020 18:31:41 -0500

Go to PT.

Response by CPL Mark Garrigus made Jan 12 at 2020 9:00 PM

CPL Mark Garrigus — Sun, 12 Jan 2020 21:00:08 -0500

LOL this is really good stuff and not even April fools day.
I guess I’m officially one old grunt now. Because I’ve heard everything.
What the hell is going on? I can’t even imagine a fat S4 clerk asking this question.

Response by SPC Brian Stephens made Jan 21 at 2020 4:38 PM

SPC Brian Stephens — Tue, 21 Jan 2020 16:38:49 -0500

You can solve it by going to PT. Sleep after.

Response by SPC Lane Wallace made Jan 25 at 2020 5:13 PM

SPC Lane Wallace — Sat, 25 Jan 2020 17:13:20 -0500

So many pussy's in the Military today, grow the fuck up and do your job!

Response by SPC Lane Wallace made Jan 25 at 2020 5:26 PM

SPC Lane Wallace — Sat, 25 Jan 2020 17:26:58 -0500

So many whining ass kids in the Military today, in 2008 I join the guard at 48 years old because I missed the Military. I was shocked at the level of maturity within my unit, I have never seen such lazy troops as I did within this unit. I did a PT test in 2009 and passed, none of these 20 year olds that I work with passed..............My last PT test was in 1986. And this guy is complaining about 4 to 5 hours sleep, I would be embarrassed to even post this!

Response by TSgt Chuck Mankin made Feb 1 at 2020 10:19 AM

TSgt Chuck Mankin — Sat, 01 Feb 2020 10:19:03 -0500

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Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2020 5:00 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Feb 2020 17:00:34 -0500

There's a lot of "suck it up, buttercup" response... and while I get that, I do think the command isn't acting properly. Having one Soldier who is tasked with showing up for a command function on a regular basis, right in the middle of the "off-shift" is questionable. Yes, I know, we're in the military 24/7, but there's some strong differential treatment.

Response by SFC Mark Bailey made Feb 8 at 2020 8:34 PM

SFC Mark Bailey — Sat, 08 Feb 2020 20:34:48 -0500

LOL.... "back in the day" we called it the "Budweiser Banana Run"...
We got in from the Strasse at 0430...changed into our "banana suits"
(PT Uniforms were yellow back then "Safety First")
did our stretches/pushups/ situps ....and ran 5 miles smelling of beer and puke
......Puke because people kept swinging off to the side of the road to get rid of that last six pack

....then a quick shit-shower-shave and off to the motorpool, the rifle range or a 25 mile roadmarch out into the German woodline and back

Response by CPL Gail White made Feb 11 at 2020 12:19 PM

CPL Gail White — Tue, 11 Feb 2020 12:19:21 -0500

Have you explained your hours and suggested a way that you would do PT at a different hour with a way for the 1SGT to verify? If he still requires it, suck it up. You are in the military

Response by CWO2 Shelby DuBois made Feb 19 at 2020 1:01 PM

CWO2 Shelby DuBois — Wed, 19 Feb 2020 13:01:03 -0500

Sounds like the snowflake generation complaint.

Response by MSgt Jim Bumgarner made Feb 21 at 2020 2:04 PM

MSgt Jim Bumgarner — Fri, 21 Feb 2020 14:04:08 -0500

Do it. THEN explain to your NCOIC why you should be able to PT @ a different time.
Don't do the typical whiner thing. Lose a couple hours, I'm assuming you're young, your'e strong & you'll live. Man up & hooha.
Msgt ret. USMC

Response by SPC Julie Wilkerson made Feb 23 at 2020 8:37 PM

SPC Julie Wilkerson — Sun, 23 Feb 2020 20:37:13 -0500

Sleep deprivation was the norm. Have you talk to the shift supervisor about modifying your shift?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 24 at 2020 4:40 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Feb 2020 16:40:21 -0500

SPC Davis: reading your post and some of the replies there are a few possible ways to address the situation however, if the 1SG and the CDR feels like PT is not been taken serious or there is an issue with failed APFTs or body fat issues in the ranks, then I can see the issue. I have never seen a shift that crazy on a clinic or hospital before. Now better time management is a way but also may not be sustainable in the long run for that unit. My recommendation is to talk to your supervisor and find a way to do the PT session. In my opinion if I have Soldiers who does PT daily and is crushing the PT test then as long as thats covered and you performance is to standard we are good. In the other hand if you can't manage your time, performance suffers and you can't pass the APFT soon ACFT or can't pass the tape test then I will have to involve your first line supervisors to work and manage PT sessions and are involved with the progress of their Soldiers. It is a workable situation but with the new ACFT around the corner there is a lot of training to do to be able to pass that physical fitness test. Prepare for it and crush it then they will see how you can take care of your own physical readiness and most likely will be able to work with you.

Response by CPO Jeffrey Bohemier made Mar 3 at 2020 1:04 PM

CPO Jeffrey Bohemier — Tue, 03 Mar 2020 13:04:13 -0500

Going on 4-5 hours of sleep is typical in the military. In the Navy we were often told “you’ll have time to sleep when you are dead.” Apparently for some sailors stationed on 2 different DDG’s out of Japan, that actually became the case. During my 20 years of service, the typical attitude was that sleep was a luxury. In the case of the Navy, they’ve cut the size gor far too long, so now they’re trying to do the same amount of work with less than a third of the resources. SLEEP IS ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL, as you need to sleep for the body to repair itself. I think you may need to over the 1SG’s head on this. It’s one thing to run on little sleep when you’re deployed, but when you’re not, going without sleep shouldn’t become a normal daily routine. Sounds to me like your 1SG is more interested in butt kissing the new commander than he is in taking proper care of his people. THAT SHOULD NEVER BE THE CASE. Throughout history, one of the prime causes of accidents in the military is a lack of sleep.

Response by SGT Lawrence Frank made Mar 7 at 2020 6:35 AM

SGT Lawrence Frank — Sat, 07 Mar 2020 06:35:57 -0500

How bout you fuckin sleep from 0700 to 1500. There I just gave you 8hrs of sleep. Your sleep pattern is not the priority. Manning your position and conducting you duties from 1600-0000 is. ADJUST YOUR PRIORITIES, get it done and be the best at it.

Response by GySgt Marc Dickerson made Mar 7 at 2020 4:17 PM

GySgt Marc Dickerson — Sat, 07 Mar 2020 16:17:23 -0500

Suck it up. Do what you're told. The only way they can break you is if you allow it. Consider it a test of your fortitude. Don't give anyone the satisfaction of turning you into a whiner. Keep the faith. Follow the chain of command procedures if you feel things aren't correct.

Response by SP5 Ann Parris made Mar 11 at 2020 1:44 PM

SP5 Ann Parris — Wed, 11 Mar 2020 13:44:36 -0400

Perhaps you should explain to your supervisor the necessity to be at the 1600 formation.

Response by CSM Donald McGlasson made Mar 13 at 2020 12:54 PM

CSM Donald McGlasson — Fri, 13 Mar 2020 12:54:09 -0400

I get it, your work schedule is different than most and should be considered when adopting/developing a PT program. Maybe the 1SG could detail one of the NCOs in your section to lead PT another time of day.

Response by COL Jim Ainslie made Mar 15 at 2020 9:26 AM

COL Jim Ainslie — Sun, 15 Mar 2020 09:26:39 -0400

I think most of the answers are missing the issue that the 1SG has established two periods for PT. One in the morning and one in the afternoon. This is far from a toxic leadership issue. It is one of basic military readiness. If the SPC chooses to go to the 1600 then he is coming off of a full 8 hours of sleep. Sorry folks, I think the 1SG is in the right.

Response by MSG Michael Tribble made Mar 15 at 2020 4:13 PM

MSG Michael Tribble — Sun, 15 Mar 2020 16:13:04 -0400

You are a scrub!

Response by Cpl Jim Zimmerman made Mar 16 at 2020 2:43 PM

Cpl Jim Zimmerman — Mon, 16 Mar 2020 14:43:42 -0400

WOW as a Jr. Enlisted(Whatever that is) i can't believe you are even asking that question. If you are ordered to PT,YOU GO TO PT. Attempt to speak with the Platoon Sgt and explain the situation calmly and professionally. If he cant be reasoned with you have a chain of Command. But in the meantime DO the PT. DUDE 5 hours of sleep!!! That's a vacation!!

Response by MAJ Clyde Howell made Mar 22 at 2020 12:00 PM

MAJ Clyde Howell — Sun, 22 Mar 2020 12:00:19 -0400

This is where your First Line has to fulfill his responsibilities as your superior and address the situation on your behalf and on behalf of your section. Does s/he have the political skills to negotiate with the 1SGT? Does s/he have the moral courage to take the issue to the Commander, if unsuccessful with the 1SGT? Just as important, does s/he have a plan for how your section will fulfill the requirement to engage in PT?

I suggest that your section assemble for PT formation, led by your First Line, at a specified time that allows sufficient sleep and still allows all to meet their shift times. Now, can your First Line sell that to your 1SGT and Commander?

Response by CWO4 Miles Weaver made Mar 22 at 2020 12:44 PM

CWO4 Miles Weaver — Sun, 22 Mar 2020 12:44:39 -0400

There is no problem to solve! In combat, are you going to be able to say that you will stand watch, go on a patrol, man a post, defend the perimeter, etc., only when you have had enough sleep? Put on your big girl panties and do your job (part of which involves PT).

Response by CWO4 Miles Weaver made Mar 22 at 2020 12:53 PM

CWO4 Miles Weaver — Sun, 22 Mar 2020 12:53:49 -0400

There is no problem to solve. You're in the military -- go to PT.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2020 2:43 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 22 Mar 2020 14:43:36 -0400

Lol get you life together and learn some time management skills...

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2020 3:10 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 22 Mar 2020 15:10:57 -0400

Stories like yours are why soldiers are get out because of a lack of common sense leadership. The army has work/rest cycles that were "supposed" to follow but never do. If you work an odd shift leadership "should" take that into account and tell you to do PT at a reasonable time with your shift supervisior....or do PT on your own. I work a night shift and it never suprises me how leadership at all levels forgets that not everyone works durinng the day only.

Response by SSG James N. made Mar 22 at 2020 4:01 PM

SSG James N. — Sun, 22 Mar 2020 16:01:04 -0400

Awww you poor thing. You have a swing shift, and no way to make accountability with anyone, and you are whining becuase you have to wake up to show up. Maybe you should go talk to the Behavior specialists in the stress office so you can find some way to manage your time, or GROW A PAIR, get your Team leader, Squad leade, and PSG and march them ll into the 1SG;s office and explain tohem that whle everyone else is given their 8 hours to speep, you re getting fucked becuase you are on swing shift without a solution to accountability.
Here's your solution cucpcake: CALL YOUR PSG for accountability, then go back to sleep, OR maybe your entire shift should go to your shit manager and have that person step up and get their accountability done with 1SG so you all are not affected negatively.

Response by COL William Oseles made Mar 22 at 2020 11:03 PM

COL William Oseles — Sun, 22 Mar 2020 23:03:00 -0400

I was Junior enlisted at one time and you have a couple of options.
1) Talk to your PLT SGT and explain the scheduling issue and request an earlier or later time;
2) Talk to your Supervisor if you are uncomfortable talking with the PSG;
2) or show up,show up at 0530.

Response by SGT David Petree made Mar 23 at 2020 2:41 AM

SGT David Petree — Mon, 23 Mar 2020 02:41:25 -0400

change your habits !! go to bed early get plenty of sleep. or just pt drunk ! we did it in Germany way back when. most guys ran better on Mon. then on Fri. get your shit in gear.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2020 12:34 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Mar 2020 12:34:00 -0400

You have 9 hours after PT to sleep. What's the problem?

Response by TSgt Andrew Harper made Mar 23 at 2020 12:55 PM

TSgt Andrew Harper — Mon, 23 Mar 2020 12:55:13 -0400

Can't hack it, get out. The mission may call for days without rest. maybe 10 mins of sleep is a delicious nap. Suck it up or get out of my military.

Response by Cpl Andrew Jamrozek made Mar 23 at 2020 1:33 PM

Cpl Andrew Jamrozek — Mon, 23 Mar 2020 13:33:57 -0400

Having worked night shift after my Marine Corps service, I feel your pain. From working against your body's circadian rhythm to daily outside noises, I don't think people who don't work overnight fully understand how hard it is to get quality sleep to begin with, which is what's indirectly being asked of you.
I would raise the issue that this is pretty counterproductive to PT's intent, especially working in a medical environment. Averaging 4-5 hours of sleep with work and PT under the added stress of discipline is asking for a compromised immune system. I'd address this with my chain of command and ask for some sort of exception, even if that meant spending lunch doing my PT instead.

Response by CAPT Ken McManaman made Mar 23 at 2020 6:08 PM

CAPT Ken McManaman — Mon, 23 Mar 2020 18:08:59 -0400

Suck it up. what if you had to perform in combat beyond normal work hours!

Response by SPC Franklin McKown made Mar 23 at 2020 7:16 PM

SPC Franklin McKown — Mon, 23 Mar 2020 19:16:27 -0400

You haven't seen ANYTHING yet..it will NOT be fair at all.

Response by SGT Kevin Dorsey made Mar 23 at 2020 10:00 PM

SGT Kevin Dorsey — Mon, 23 Mar 2020 22:00:30 -0400

I can not even imagine that thought crossing my mind. I do not believe the military is for you. Go to you tube and look up Special Forces Training.

Response by SGT Harry C Miller Jr made Mar 24 at 2020 4:54 AM

SGT Harry C Miller Jr — Tue, 24 Mar 2020 04:54:59 -0400

You've got to be " KIDDING" ? ! ? lower enlisted,,,,junior enlisted or a Top, get it together "butter-cup", this is the Armed Forces & it's War-Time ? ! ? Wow !!

Good Advice SFC M. Davila
&
Also, SGT M. Lunsford

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2020 7:58 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Mar 2020 07:58:49 -0400

I am now 62 years of age. I went to Iraq at the age of 50. Average sleep time for me was 4 to 5 hours of sleep for the entire deployment. You should thank your lucky stars that all you have to worry about is PT on 4 to 5 hours of sleep. You need to simply "man-up" and deal with it. If you just can't you might consider a different line of work and just get out.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2020 11:18 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Mar 2020 11:18:43 -0400

Go to your first line and request shift PT. The army has multiple MOS’s that require to work shifts. MPs do it, cooks do it Medical personnel do it. MOS’s with shift work should do shift specific PT.

After I work my 8 hour day shift 0315-1300 (sometimes later if someone decides to try and sneak drugs into the gate) and then we do PT right after we get off.

But for Swings for instance we would go into PT at 0930 before a 1200 weapons draw and 1730 before a 1900 weapons draw for Mid shift. It’s not an unusual thing to do shift PT. Easiest thing to do is request that it be that way.

Response by SMSgt Robert Anderson made Mar 24 at 2020 5:39 PM

SMSgt Robert Anderson — Tue, 24 Mar 2020 17:39:31 -0400

I remember pulling CQ when we left work 1630 and had to be in the CQ office at 1730 until 0730 when you had to report to your duty station. That was back in the early 60s and there was no complaining.

Response by SSgt John Vela made Mar 24 at 2020 5:48 PM

SSgt John Vela — Tue, 24 Mar 2020 17:48:09 -0400

Listen Sad Sack... If you're writing something like this, you shouldn't even be in the service. Put on your big boy pants and man up.

Response by SSG Frank Garvis made Mar 24 at 2020 7:55 PM

SSG Frank Garvis — Tue, 24 Mar 2020 19:55:03 -0400

Your leadership should be allowing for different schedules and letting the senior NCO of your shift run a different PT session. It's not rocket science.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2020 7:16 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Mar 2020 07:16:22 -0400

Good question and there are some GREAT responses. As a Company commander with a extremely intelligent, squared away 1SG, our response would be simple. Treat everyone the the same across the board when it comes to formation times, discipline, EEO, EVERYTHING.

BLUF...

Continue to adhere to the policies put in place by your Command team and then, only after you have proven your respect to their guidance as far as PT goes, then come up with a solution for them.

State your solution respectfully and above all ARTICULATE the problem you have at hand. Remember, no one wants to hear excuses, they want to listen to reasons as to why policies need to be changes and especially if they have to treat a certain person, or group of people, differently than the rest...this way they can justify their actions if other Soldiers complain about it to an even higher chain of Command. Make sure to suggest an alternate route that encompasses a fair solution to your problem, in other words.....do not suggest to your 1SG cutting your PT time in half of what the other Soldiers have to do or suggest cutting out PT altogether....that is unfair to the rest and your Command team will never take you seriously again...

Embrace your situation and be grateful for each and every day you are in uniform....that is my diplomatic approach to all issues i have with my higher chains of command...

Response by 1SG John Highfill made Mar 25 at 2020 8:00 AM

1SG John Highfill — Wed, 25 Mar 2020 08:00:00 -0400

Go to PT that will solve your problem

Response by SPC Frank Martin made Mar 25 at 2020 12:29 PM

SPC Frank Martin — Wed, 25 Mar 2020 12:29:04 -0400

So worst care scenario you're off at 0000, in bed by 0100, up at 0500, and back in the sack at 0730 until 1500? I recall my plt sgt telling me the Army only guarantees 2 hrs of sleep and that's only in peacetime. Grow a set, bucko, this ain't middle school.

Response by SPC Scott Fetter made Mar 25 at 2020 5:47 PM

SPC Scott Fetter — Wed, 25 Mar 2020 17:47:32 -0400

Back when I was in, 85-88 we had to be ready for PT at 05:30 unless you where pulling CQ or going to sick call NO exception. Drunk, hungover, going to bed late didn't matter. My commander like to run so we where always the first out and last to come back in. My suggestion would to be a soldier and do your job. Today's military is like a boy scout or girl scout camp. Grow up and deal with it.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2020 8:54 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Mar 2020 20:54:00 -0400

I can understand why your 1SG said ladeedadee er’ body because it seemed like there was complacency w pt from old command. I’d see if your section is willing to all show up by 1545 and say we’re all here and report what you did for pt and offer him a copy of your PT plan. Showing up at the 0530 isn’t healthy for you or your section due to work schedule requirements. Try to show you have a competent and reliable section and he’ll trust you. Remember you can use the open door policy as well and talk w your CDR if it doesn’t work.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2020 10:02 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Mar 2020 22:02:02 -0400

UNDERWAY I’m expected to stand a 12 hour watch (my division is port and starboard), attend flight quarters when it’s called away, take care of assigned maintenance, and fulfill my duties as a master helmsman. I would be lucky to get 4-5 hours of sleep over the course of 48 hours. There’s no nice way to say it but suck it up buttercup, trust me give it time and you will adjust.

Response by SPC Barry Smith made Mar 25 at 2020 11:04 PM

SPC Barry Smith — Wed, 25 Mar 2020 23:04:54 -0400

Suck it up and be a man you’re not a kid anymore
I hope you never have to find out what it’s like being in a real combat
I was stuck in the jungle for nine months, how much sleep do you think we got on a day-to-day basis
Vietnam 1970 to 1971 101st airborne infantry

Response by CPT Thomas Perry made Mar 25 at 2020 11:42 PM

CPT Thomas Perry — Wed, 25 Mar 2020 23:42:13 -0400

See if you can form up and lead a lunchtime PT group. I’d bet that some NCOs and officers might participate since lunch is a popular time to exercise. Also, these are hospital people so it can’t be that hard core

Response by MSG D Smith made Mar 26 at 2020 5:51 AM

MSG D Smith — Thu, 26 Mar 2020 05:51:56 -0400

You suck it up. The army is not about eight hours sleep it is about service to your country, sacrifice, and discipline. If those three things or any one of them is less important than sleep than handle it professionally by requesting to be chaptered out of the army for failure to adapt

Response by SSG James Stodola made Mar 26 at 2020 11:05 AM

SSG James Stodola — Thu, 26 Mar 2020 11:05:23 -0400

First let me get something out there. I am old school military, 1973-2005, So I may sound harsh but not trying to. You joined the Army and now are complaining about having to to do Army stuff, right? Well guess what, you do have to do it. The fact that you choose to act like a civilian and party all night because your shift doesn't start until 1600 is a piss poor excuse. You are not a civilian anymore and really shouldn't think like one. There is a reason to maintain your fitness levels and that is what the Army wishes you to do, so don't get bent out of shape when you are told to do it. I don't know what your mind set is on fitness, but if you are in the medical field, you will sometimes work hard and long hours given the circumstances, if you are mildly or grossly out of shape it will take a toll on you much faster and thereby making you less effective over long periods of duty requirements, this in turn will lead to your fellow personnel to pick up the slack, your slack, and this will not set well with them especially if they are of the same mind set as you and stay out all night. What you are going to end up with is a very inefficient workplace and that is when mistakes are made, and trust me as a former Medic, MP, and Range master, no one can afford mistakes, not when peoples lives are in your hands. So I might suggest that you sit down and seriously re-evaluate your life and what you want out if it because this is not going to work for you in the long run unless you make changes. This is not some summer camp where you have to just push it out for a few weeks and then go back to your regular life. This is your life now and it would be in your best interests to realize this and embrace it fully, or get out and go back to what you were doing before. Either step up, man up, quit whining, and do what you took and oath to do or move on. The choice is yours, the fact that you came here complaining about how hard your life is and asking for ways to get around it, shows me you were not ready for this in the beginning and probably should not have taken the challenge because I don't see that you are ready to accept the requirements to meet that challenge. So, take these answers with a grain of salt and make your own decisions instead of trying to cut corners.

Response by SGM Thomas Adderley made Mar 26 at 2020 11:59 AM

SGM Thomas Adderley — Thu, 26 Mar 2020 11:59:30 -0400

Other responses have alluded to a problem with poor scheduling, toxic leadership, etc; while a look at the scheduling might be appropriate you are in the Army Soldier and required to perform your DUTY as required. So quit complaining, get your ass in gear and do the PT then get your sleep. Your whining reminds me of a so called soldier who wishes his mama was around to tuck him in and see that he is treated well. If this is you then get the hell out of my Army.

Response by Sgt Abraham Marcos made Mar 26 at 2020 2:43 PM

Sgt Abraham Marcos — Thu, 26 Mar 2020 14:43:54 -0400

I can't believe that this is a problem. Shut up and do as you are told.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2020 4:58 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 Mar 2020 16:58:03 -0400

Your section should obviously be made personally responsible for your PT. As a side note leadership would do well to assign the best examples of physical fitness available to them to this duty. An irregular duty obviously calls for utilizing small group tactics and increased responsibility expectations for the soldiers. Your problem seems to stem from non engaged leadership; my experience of this was mostly do to arbitrary prioritization at higher echelons within the chain of command or unrealistic expectations for key positions from the chain of command.

There are regulations dealing with sleep requirements. These specify doctrine for maintaining mission capabilities and readiness of soldiers. A minimum of 6 hours off duty during regular operation. Contingent operations I have experienced lasted at the longest longest 42 hours of continuous mission requirements. Contingency operations are entirely mission accomplishment orientated and sometimes the chain of command is unaware of the actual scope of the missions tasked. I call it clearing the desk; when you, as a leader, pass mission taskings off without analyzation and there for lacking strategic planning for sustainment.

Response by PO1 George White made Mar 26 at 2020 9:37 PM

PO1 George White — Thu, 26 Mar 2020 21:37:05 -0400

LOL. youngster, that is something you should have worked out before you signed the contract of enlistment. That contract says you do what you told when you're told as long as the telling is lawful.

Yes, you are whining and yes I am being hard; but my hardness is a hardness that was won through many mistakes. You have a responsibility, fulfill it. If it grates on you, do not re-enlist. Until then, honor your contract so you can live with yourself.

I don't care what your rate or MO is in the military, your basic function is to fight when called upon, and fighting is much like being a starter on an NFL team, you have to be in the best shape you can be if you want to be effective, and to be anything less is to let down your teammates.

Get over yourself and go do your PT. If you're only getting 4- 5 hours of sleep, there is a problem. Is that problem scheduling or personal preference in staying up to watch a TV program, play with the baby's mother, or whatever.....when you put that shit in front of honoring your contract and doing your duty, you are going to lose.

Response by SPC Bill Palmer made Mar 27 at 2020 12:16 PM

SPC Bill Palmer — Fri, 27 Mar 2020 12:16:26 -0400

I was an Army photographer in West Germany from '71 to '73. I also, in my spare time, played in a band for USO/Special Services. We usually played only weekends, but occasionally we played Thursday, Friday, and Saturday evenings. We played in Em and NCO clubs from nearby or far away. On the far away gigs I would get back to the company area just in time to change into uniform and stand in morning formation ready to put in a full day's work. That meant I stayed awake from early Thursday morning until early Sunday morning with no sleep. I was young then and could do that. If you are off shift in time to do PT, that meant you had the time afterwards to get some sleep. I don't see what the problem is. Sorry.

Response by A1C Bishop Medcalf made Mar 27 at 2020 4:31 PM

A1C Bishop Medcalf — Fri, 27 Mar 2020 16:31:14 -0400

Response by Maj Robert Dudley made Mar 27 at 2020 5:07 PM

Maj Robert Dudley — Fri, 27 Mar 2020 17:07:21 -0400

Um, go to PT and quit whining. You’re a soldier for crying out loud.

Response by LCDR Joseph Richter made Mar 27 at 2020 6:43 PM

LCDR Joseph Richter — Fri, 27 Mar 2020 18:43:31 -0400

My feelings, you're a soldier first and you do what you need to show for unit formation. As a retired Health Admin type, I faced these issues all the time, you have freak working hours so go talk to your hospital first line supervisor and tell them of the situation and see if you can do a 1700 to 0030 and take a 1/2 hour lunch on PT days. This is my input but I'm going to be honest with you, I never got involved with issues like this with the troops, my senior enlisted and chiefs took care of it. An interesting talking point would be..... "Hey first Sgt, will you look at this? I get off at 0-dark thirty and race home to hit the rack, at the mid sleep hour mark they offer PT and at 1600 I'm scheduled to PT and work at the same time, can you help me figure out how to make this work? When I work my shift I give 110% runnin' and gunnin' all night, at the end of that shift I'm spent, I need my rest, I am afraid if I PT in a stuper, I may get hurt and then loose a troop to unit, PT and they loose me at the hospital. Everybody looses, I want to give you my best, can you work with me so I can do that?"

Response by PO1 David Kingsley made Mar 27 at 2020 10:37 PM

PO1 David Kingsley — Fri, 27 Mar 2020 22:37:25 -0400

the key words and tricky phrases goes that you've sworn to uphold the Constitution and obey the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Following Lawful Orders.
First off, You must be able to wake from a sound sleep, evaluate the situation and respond appropriately with very little sleep. It's Not a Management Style Question, but a Needs of the Military Question.
In many cases You won't have the option of being fully rested before you are required to exert yourself. Like All those Movies point out, the bad guys won't be waiting for you to get your beauty sleep, and many of the more successful attacks take place at night, when people are sleeping.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2020 2:54 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Mar 2020 02:54:01 -0400

I feel that you do need your rest to function right, but at the same time its about trying to manage your time right...on deployment its usually worse depending your MOS

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2020 10:15 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Mar 2020 10:15:44 -0400

An 8 hour shift means you have 14 hours to do what you want, assuming your PT session is 2 hours. It sounds like you need to work on your time management. At my hospital the ER medics work 12 hour shifts and conduct PT before their shifts.

Response by CPT Keith Messinger made Mar 28 at 2020 3:40 PM

CPT Keith Messinger — Sat, 28 Mar 2020 15:40:29 -0400

Go to PT or leave the Army.

Response by SGT Rhett Moore made Mar 28 at 2020 5:09 PM

SGT Rhett Moore — Sat, 28 Mar 2020 17:09:10 -0400

Suck it up buttercup.

Response by CPO Albert Kennison made Mar 28 at 2020 7:39 PM

CPO Albert Kennison — Sat, 28 Mar 2020 19:39:44 -0400

Young man or woman, which ever is appropriate, all us vets have been through the same situation and have lived through it. Remember you are in the military, and if you can't hack the loss of sleep to carry out lawful orders, I suggest after your tour find another career in life. You was never promised a rose garden!

Response by SPC Chris Ison made Mar 29 at 2020 8:54 PM

SPC Chris Ison — Sun, 29 Mar 2020 20:54:13 -0400

I would take this to my first line supervisor. Either they allow you to PT at 1600, when you come on shift, or they allow you to PT separately, and as long as you make height and weft and pass the PT test I don't see how they would not allow this.

If your first line supervisor can not get anything done, I would then go to the next guy up, until i got to the 1SG directly, I would quite frankly, directly, and with respect explain my specific situation to my 1SG. I would explain that since you do not get off duty till midnight, and you need to eat, and shower, etc, that you don't have time to get the needed rest to do your PT AND your shift.

I would very directly explain how your lack of sleep, is putting patients at risk on your shift at the hospital. And I would ask why the 1600 formation could not be moved to say 1400 so you can PT and then shower before your shift.

If that did not work, I would talk to one of the doctor's at the hospital and see if they can intervene.

If that doesn't work you can try the IG.

It doesn't make any sense to have a pt formation for second shift the same as the pt formation for everyone else.

The best advice I can give you is this:

Bitching is complaining without an solution. Constructive Criticism is seeing a problem, recognizing the problem, and fixing the problem. It is much easier to get what you want, if you already have a workable solution when you present your problem. That way the morons in charge don't have to try and figure it out on their own. And it sounds like you have some rocks in your chain of command.

Response by LTC Charles "Pappy" Patchin made Mar 29 at 2020 10:27 PM

LTC Charles "Pappy" Patchin — Sun, 29 Mar 2020 22:27:07 -0400

Suck it up.
or, walk into the Commanders office and punch him/her out. Jump up on the desk and take a tremendous dump.
Wait for the MPs.
You won't have to worry about lost sleep or those nasty old PT formations.

Response by SGT Jon Mullins made Mar 29 at 2020 11:36 PM

SGT Jon Mullins — Sun, 29 Mar 2020 23:36:15 -0400

You do realize that the regulation just says 4hrs of sleep is mandatory, it doesn’t say it has to be consecutive. I’ve come off staff duty to go to PT before I got released for the day.
The bottom line is that the military isn’t supposed to be for cream puffs or selfish douches, however, it’s getting softer to accommodate people that should probably just get out and make room for those that want to be warfighters. I have said this to my soldiers and I’ll say it to you: I’ll bring you a straw to help you suck it up. Now take a knee, drink some water and drive on. Those are the best words of advice that I was given when I was a private.

Response by SFC Wendell Pruitt made Mar 30 at 2020 7:44 PM

SFC Wendell Pruitt — Mon, 30 Mar 2020 19:44:28 -0400

Go to PT and give it your best or be prepared for the Art 15 for failure to follow instructions/ AWOL, No place in your Army contract was there a guarantee of 8 hours sleep at any point and I would bet my last $ that if its something you want to do you would be there with less sleep and smiling the whole time...
.....

Response by PFC Edmond M. Austin made Apr 3 at 2020 6:27 PM

PFC Edmond M. Austin — Fri, 03 Apr 2020 18:27:37 -0400

We did PT 5 days a week Stateside, if you complained you’d be doing it weekends also. If you can’t follow those orders from your Senior NCO’s need a new line of work.

Response by Sgt Michael Clifford made Apr 6 at 2020 10:06 AM

Sgt Michael Clifford — Mon, 06 Apr 2020 10:06:42 -0400

Don't know what the rules are in the Army but when I served (62-68) the only folks who got to sleep in were those who had the 2400 t0 0400 watch and then only until 0700 or 0800. For everyone else reveille went at 0530. If you are not at the 0530 PT formation and you go on duty at 1600 when do you plan to do PT? I hope that you are not trying to say that your shift doesn't need PT. Perhaps the senior individual on this shift should come up with an alternative plan to present to your 1st Sergeant.

You have to remember the military is not civilian life and everything has a time and a purpose.

Response by SGT Bryan O'Reilly made Apr 17 at 2020 12:43 PM

SGT Bryan O'Reilly — Fri, 17 Apr 2020 12:43:58 -0400

First, you never have to worry about a question you ask on here. We share experiences and outlooks to help each other and no question is wrong if it's important to you.
It sounds like they are testing your desire to soldier. You've been in long enough to know what you are doing of you wouldn't be a Spc
So, maybe they are seeing if you got the extra drive it takes to be an NCO. That or you made someone feel butt hurt. Either way, you soldier on.
These years are going to be full of sleepless nights and doing things that you feel are unfair again xx suck it up and soldiler on. Show them you can hang and they will learn you are the real deal. Personally xx o can't recall a day in USEUR where I got an honest 8 hour's of sleep. If it's really too much then you should talk to your section chief. But you've already done the hard part, don't let a little thing like this stop you from being the troop you signed up to be.
Yer pal,

Response by LCpl Robert Castaldi made Apr 19 at 2020 8:54 PM

LCpl Robert Castaldi — Sun, 19 Apr 2020 20:54:16 -0400

You ARE whining SNOWFLAKE! GET your SORRY ASS OUT OF THE RACK AND GET TO PT!!! Be VERY happy you are in the Army because, in the Marine Corps, someone would be throwing you and your rack out the window and then jumping on your back to get your sorry ass moving. You would then be doing PT until you drop and then for another hour more. What have you done to the US Army to ask such a pansy assed question? If you don't like it, get out and join the Girl Scouts! They have a special branch for you that you may be able to handle called the Brownies! Jesus' mother of Christ What kind of crybaby are you? Are there any Army Regulations covering this? HELL YES! It's called the UCMJ, Disobedience of a Direct Order!!!! Now gert UP or GET OUT!!!

Response by SGT Avery Hasty made Apr 23 at 2020 7:31 AM

SGT Avery Hasty — Thu, 23 Apr 2020 07:31:33 -0400

4-5 hrs. Staying in shape was number 1 priority when I was in combat .Later it will help keep the depression away. Complain now live later.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2020 9:01 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Apr 2020 09:01:08 -0400

Solve it by going to PT. Bring it up after the fact.

Response by SSG Brian Whitney made Apr 23 at 2020 6:04 PM

SSG Brian Whitney — Thu, 23 Apr 2020 18:04:48 -0400

You solve this problem only one way. GO TO FRIGGING PT!! If you ever have to say " I don't want to sound like I'm whining" you're probably whining. Suck it up buttercup.

Response by CPL Michael Skeen made Apr 23 at 2020 6:37 PM

CPL Michael Skeen — Thu, 23 Apr 2020 18:37:39 -0400

Change from a mini pad to a maxi pad.

Response by CPL J M made Apr 24 at 2020 1:08 AM

CPL J M — Fri, 24 Apr 2020 01:08:50 -0400

Sounds similar to leadership I once had at a Support Battalion in East Fort Bliss. I would've stayed in for 10 years if it wasn't for the nonsense and toxic leadership that was present. I remember our section working 15 hours a day for a good 6 months while the rest of the battalion got Family Day, Org Day, 3 or 4 Days while we still had to work. It was exhausting and mentally challenging yes but I just drove on cuz I knew it wouldn't change. Hang in there, if you're in Conus, try to PCS to OCONUS or something. Despite myths, Korea is an awesome place to be stationed at if you're young and you don't deploy nor railhead (for deployments), and no NTC. The regulations will be there but ignored and they will do anything to prevent you from going. Our company didn't let us go to sickcall before PT and wanted us to be present at the company no matter what and then go to sickcall after formation. Hang in there I know how it feels to be junior enlisted and having those that outrank you use their powers when it's convenient for them

Response by SFC Kory Schaubhut made Apr 24 at 2020 4:44 AM

SFC Kory Schaubhut — Fri, 24 Apr 2020 04:44:04 -0400

We've all had hardships. This is the sort of situation where a soldier's supervisor should find a solution. Taking care of soldiers is part of being a leader. It's fine as a temporary thing. It's even fine if some sort of external factor makes it necessary long-term. But this sounds like a routine scheduling issue that could be worked out.

Response by PO1 John Albritton made Apr 24 at 2020 7:16 AM

PO1 John Albritton — Fri, 24 Apr 2020 07:16:35 -0400

Suck it up buttercup, this is the military not some cushy civilian gig. Get deployed to a hot zone and see what life is really like. Go do your PT and stop whining about it.

Response by AN Robert Miller made Apr 24 at 2020 10:25 AM

AN Robert Miller — Fri, 24 Apr 2020 10:25:08 -0400

Uhhhh...ya do it bud

Response by SSgt Jerrol Olson made Apr 24 at 2020 10:35 AM

SSgt Jerrol Olson — Fri, 24 Apr 2020 10:35:52 -0400

Is this a serious question?

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2020 10:47 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Apr 2020 10:47:30 -0400

You do as Directed Ordered to do, Remember not complying is refusing an order, attend your PT and Formation then request to speak through the chain of Command and or NCO Support channel starting with your immediate supervisor and address your concerns, this gets documented and protects you and the Leadership and you will have your concerns documented for the record.
Now Keep in Mind that during these times and during combat 90% of Soldiers in conflict fight with minimum rest. It is the Military Nature.

Response by SPC Ken Jones made Apr 24 at 2020 11:22 AM

SPC Ken Jones — Fri, 24 Apr 2020 11:22:11 -0400

I am reading other comments on here defending the OP concerns. So if I am reading this correctly, the OP has plenty of time to get some rest after PT since he does not have to go into “work” until 1600. Adjust your sleep schedule and suck it up. When you get off work at 0000, stay up. When PT is over, go to sleep. That simple.

Response by GySgt Carl Rumbolo made Apr 24 at 2020 4:17 PM

GySgt Carl Rumbolo — Fri, 24 Apr 2020 16:17:51 -0400

Banging my head on my desk here - you are in fact whining - this is the military, you aren't on some sort of clock. Manage your time.

Response by MSgt Jeff Brown made Apr 24 at 2020 7:18 PM

MSgt Jeff Brown — Fri, 24 Apr 2020 19:18:04 -0400

Yes. You go. Period. You're in the army, not some country club.

Response by SGT Phil Marnette made Apr 24 at 2020 7:39 PM

SGT Phil Marnette — Fri, 24 Apr 2020 19:39:41 -0400

During the first Persian gulf war I was stationed in Germany and we worked 18-20 hour days for almost a year. I know the war was what 7 days long. We started shipping ammo 2-3 months prior and after the war were getting the big stuff back and still shipping small arms. I would have been happy to have enough time to go to PT. I was an E4P and had 17 people below me and only got about 1or 2 days off a month and only averaged 3 hours sleep a night. My response is Suck it up buttercup!!!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2020 2:42 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Apr 2020 02:42:46 -0400

I know everyone is different, but I usually get less than 5 hours sleep , even if I can sleep 8 hours i sleep half that , after CQ , I wake up before noon. Just need to tough it out battle , maintenance where I'm station at work late and still have to be in formation before 0630 , be lucky you're not them lol.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2020 9:41 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Apr 2020 09:41:21 -0400

All of you NCO's who follow instructions blindly make me so mad. Your duty as an NCO is to tend to the needs of YOUR Soldier. True the enemy doesn't care about a schedule. But I don't see the first shift people ever doing pt at 1900 or 2300 ON A REGULAR BASIS. Could you imagine the uproar that would happen? There is a reason that the newest leadership value is empathy. Just put yourself in your Soldiers' shoes. AND DON'T BE AFRAID TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOUR HIGHERS, NCO'S! That's what the Juniors are counting on to do.

Juniors, if your NCO lacks empathy or personal courage to go to higher, tell your direct line that you intend to go up the chain. Each leader above your direct NCO should have an open door policy. If that higher says just listen to your direct line, go higher. But inform each level that you intend to go higher. 1SG's always have open door policies. Just make an appointment. You will be expected to bring your direct, so be sure to inform him/her. If 1SG says he doesn't care, inform them that you will be filing an IG complaint and actually follow through. (A lot of people threaten it but don't follow through. And they know this.)

As you can tell, I am usually not a favorite among my highers. My Soldiers come first. When I was an E5, my Soldier wanted to go against our entire command. And I was timidly by her side. I agreed with her side but thought she could just suck it up. (I never told anyone at work that though.) AND SHE ENDED UP WINNING! CSM apologized for actions of command and everything. From then on I said I would back my Soldiers if they are right as much as I could.

Good luck! Message me if you need to talk.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2020 9:54 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Apr 2020 09:54:49 -0400

I'm sorry. The newest army leadership value is humility. I was mistaken. They need to make empathy one too.

Response by PO1 Michael Bruner made Apr 25 at 2020 1:48 PM

PO1 Michael Bruner — Sat, 25 Apr 2020 13:48:09 -0400

Go to PT, and when reenlistment rolls around, ask yourself if you wanna keep dealing with having to PT on small amounts of sleep.

Response by SSG Bobby Richardson made Apr 25 at 2020 6:14 PM

SSG Bobby Richardson — Sat, 25 Apr 2020 18:14:15 -0400

On the one hand I feel your pain, I worked 6 & 2 rotating shifts - days, swings, mids, 6 days on, 2 days off - for the better part of 7 years. On the other hand, not once in 11 years did I have an assignment where PT was *included* in my regular work shift. I suggest that if you *must* get 8 hours of sleep per day, that you do two 4 hour shifts before & after PT. We've all had to develop adaptive coping strategies when life presents us with hurdles.

Response by SFC James (Jim) R Brown made Apr 25 at 2020 11:29 PM

SFC James (Jim) R Brown — Sat, 25 Apr 2020 23:29:01 -0400

You make the 0530 formation SPC. You suck it up. You can rest after the formation. The 1SGT should already made you aware of this. No excuse for you.

Response by Maj Rob Drury made Apr 26 at 2020 12:58 AM

Maj Rob Drury — Sun, 26 Apr 2020 00:58:59 -0400

How do you solve the problem?
The first step is to identify the problem.
Your command wants you at PT. You are not at PT. Problem identified.
Get your ass to PT. Problem solved.

Response by 1SG Brian Adams made Apr 26 at 2020 2:43 AM

1SG Brian Adams — Sun, 26 Apr 2020 02:43:04 -0400

You probably will not find anything in and regs. Perhaps PT could commence at 1400 hrs rather than 1600 hrs. This way you would have time to shower up and get to your 1600-0000 shift and not have to worry about the o dark thirty PT formation. Talk to some of your platoon Sergeants and then run it up to the 1SG and commander. Normally common sense should prevail...if that does not work ( time adjustments) then you will just have to suck it up for a while like all good Soldiers do until you can change your schedule. Keep in mind, PT is critical in all outfits. Good luck. Hoooah!

Response by SPC Jordan Hines made Apr 26 at 2020 5:36 AM

SPC Jordan Hines — Sun, 26 Apr 2020 05:36:46 -0400

You don’t need sleep brother, we’ll sleep when we die. Are Battles need you/us. It’s not about you brother it’s about your brother/sister to your left and right. Hooyah

Response by LCDR George Goforth made Apr 26 at 2020 9:46 AM

LCDR George Goforth — Sun, 26 Apr 2020 09:46:02 -0400

Just suck it up and do what you are told soldier and be thankful that a lot of others you are getting enough to eat. Many people in the military, far older and in lots of cases far more senior than you, routinely get far less sleep that your 4 to 5 hours. This is really not a hardship and with time and perseverance you will get use to it.

Response by SGT Alfred Cox made Apr 26 at 2020 9:49 AM

SGT Alfred Cox — Sun, 26 Apr 2020 09:49:00 -0400

Suck it up buttercup. You can sleep when your dead, or retired. Till then .... do P.T.

Response by Sgt Scott Myers made Apr 26 at 2020 10:39 AM

Sgt Scott Myers — Sun, 26 Apr 2020 10:39:18 -0400

Well Spc. I’m sure anyone we may go to war with will allow you to get 8 hours of sleep. Get up shut up and PT. Then go clean up and go back and hit the rack. You will still get your sleep.

Response by Megan Pioch made Apr 26 at 2020 10:44 AM

Megan Pioch — Sun, 26 Apr 2020 10:44:00 -0400

You're going to have to embrace the suck. Until you get promoted or until that that 1SG leaves, you have no choice. And PT is to ensure physical readiness in a world that that unfortunately hates the United States and American troops. Always remember that these exercises may save your life, or the lives of your Team one day. It's all to prepare you and to keep you alive. If, God forbid, something like Fort Hood ever happens again, you might be the person able to respond, and then you'll be thanking that 1SG for saving your life. Respectfully -

Response by MSG O'Connor Pat made Apr 26 at 2020 11:47 AM

MSG O'Connor Pat — Sun, 26 Apr 2020 11:47:44 -0400

If only 5 people showed up for PT, there are bigger leadership problems in your command than you getting 4-5 hours of sleep. Sure, you aren't in the infantry on continuous ops, but mission accomplishment in or out of the field doesn't work on the concept of fair. There is a reason why people say "Thank you for your service", because you are expected to serve and sacrifice for something bigger than yourself and not everyone can do that. Prioritize your time, focus on your mission and developing into a leader yourself; one day when someone thanks you for your service you will be proud that you met the challenge and know that those who haven't served have no idea what that service really means. You will get farther by being a professional soldier than by throwing out regulations about how you are being treated unfairly.

Response by SGT Robert Martin made Apr 26 at 2020 2:32 PM

SGT Robert Martin — Sun, 26 Apr 2020 14:32:51 -0400

For someone that doesn’t want to sound like your whining you seem to whine a lot. Time to put your big girl pt uniform on, and come to terms which the fact that you joined the Army. If this is your biggest concern about your time in the military I can assure you your very lucky.

Response by SPC Tarrence Molendyk made Apr 26 at 2020 2:38 PM

SPC Tarrence Molendyk — Sun, 26 Apr 2020 14:38:56 -0400

I agree with the other comments being made. When you are deployed you won't have the luxury of telling the wounded hold on I need sleep. Their lives will depend on you just as your squad is depending on you in Garrison. If you can't be depended on then maybe you shouldn't be in the service.

Response by SSG Darrell Peters made Apr 26 at 2020 2:58 PM

SSG Darrell Peters — Sun, 26 Apr 2020 14:58:40 -0400

I worked in an Emergency room we had three shifts at one I worked you want to talk about being tired and going to PT? You would be on one shift for a couple of months and then rotate to another. PT was at 0530 First Shift started at 0800. Which gave you an hour and a half to drive to work get a shower and change. Second shift started at 1630 and ended at 2400. Third shift 2400 to 0800. We only had ONE PT Formation 0530. The night shift never made it to PT. If you had a Consistent Passing score on the PT test they didn't give you any grief. Sooner or later you would be rotated to first or second shift. I guess they figured the night shift was a chance to get some rest and do personal PT something you liked to do for about two months.

Response by SGT Charles Bartell made Apr 26 at 2020 3:31 PM

SGT Charles Bartell — Sun, 26 Apr 2020 15:31:38 -0400

The problem is you are in a medical unit. With all the different shifts. In a way it is like being in a M.P. unit that has different road shifts.
Most of them do there P.T. before or after their shifts, And that seems to work for them.
It is my opinion that your PSG should talk to the 1sg about the P.T. formation's.
I would see if the P.T. could be done before your shifts, Like most of the Army.

Response by Cpl Jelen De Castro Vargas made Apr 26 at 2020 9:48 PM

Cpl Jelen De Castro Vargas — Sun, 26 Apr 2020 21:48:37 -0400

Run it up your chain of command that conducting PT 5 hours after then end of shift is not the best idea, you can accomplish the mission without inconveniencing the troops because believe it or not, troop welfare should absolutely be a priority but to be entirely honest most young members of the military get by without 8hrs regardless so you may have an issue convincing higher

Response by LTC Philip Marlowe made Apr 26 at 2020 11:40 PM

LTC Philip Marlowe — Sun, 26 Apr 2020 23:40:46 -0400

Ask your First Line to speak with the Hospital Administration to see if they are willing to adjust shifts to 1500-2300 - 2300-0700 - 0700-1500 OR 1700-0100 - 01-0900 - 09-1700 to accomodate the new CDR/1SG. That will increase crash time a bit OR allow you to attend the 1600 formation. On the other hand, the Hospital Administration - of which I'm sure has its own Commander and Chain of Command, which might include the CDR/1SG in it and speak with them because I'm confident you are probably not the only individual impacted by the TOPs formation policy. However, if none of the above occurs, then as the old saying goes - you SUCK IT UP.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2020 12:05 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Apr 2020 00:05:34 -0400

Go to PT

Response by LT Pamela Jones made Apr 27 at 2020 7:25 AM

LT Pamela Jones — Mon, 27 Apr 2020 07:25:24 -0400

“4-5 hours sleep.” Really? I would be on duty for 12 hours, then have CDO duty for 24 hours. And there were times I had to do PT in the middle of all that. It’s the military. If you want bankers hours, then perhaps you should change your career path.
If you know you have PT, go to bed earlier—if possible and I know that difficult with your shifts, but perhaps you don’t get out of bed until 30 minutes prior to your shift. That, way, you can get in a little extra sleep before your duty and add that to your sleep time prior to PT.
Either way, life isn’t fair and PT, regardless of how difficult it can be, is meant to keep you in peek physical condition. As a military man/woman, that should be something that you appreciate.

Response by SFC Richard Foster made Apr 27 at 2020 9:55 AM

SFC Richard Foster — Mon, 27 Apr 2020 09:55:59 -0400

Go to bed Instead of running to the Club,

Response by 1SG Gary Owens made Apr 27 at 2020 11:09 AM

1SG Gary Owens — Mon, 27 Apr 2020 11:09:00 -0400

Read some of the comments they make sense. The military isn’t a democracy, either get with the program or get out! Pretty simple. Especially with the virus thing civilians are looking for hospital workers as I speak

Response by SP5 Gerbal Geek made Apr 27 at 2020 4:02 PM

SP5 Gerbal Geek — Mon, 27 Apr 2020 16:02:33 -0400

Four hours rest. That was the number when I was in. Guard duty, two on, four off. Suck it up butter cup. Do the PT and go back to sleep. Quit your bitchen. You probably need the PT. It is good for you.

Response by PFC Matt Ochmanski made Apr 27 at 2020 4:13 PM

PFC Matt Ochmanski — Mon, 27 Apr 2020 16:13:39 -0400

Well buttercup, I served as an MP. I’ve worked a rotating shift 06:00-14:00, 14:00-22:00, and 22:00-06:00. There are days that we would come off the night shift and have to report for the middle shift. We normally did PT before shift, get dismissed to shower and then report back for weapon draw and Guardmount inspection. Then head to the MP station for the shift briefing. So the normal days were 14+ hours. It’s the Army! We had to stay in shape and not for the APFT but for our lives. If you’re complaining about this? I think you’ve never deployed or done field exercises. Wait till you do! You hit the ground running till the mission is done. Then you’re able to get some rest! The army is not all about Garrison work in a hospital. Sometimes you have to roll up your sleeves suck it up and do what is needed on no sleep.

Response by SPC Greg Campbell made Apr 27 at 2020 4:47 PM

SPC Greg Campbell — Mon, 27 Apr 2020 16:47:31 -0400

you would of never made it as a tank wrench in Germany. Gunnery? 72+ hr days. lucky to get 2 straight hours. Reforger? sleep HAHAHA. suck it up buttercup

Response by SGT Kent Bredbenner made Apr 27 at 2020 5:00 PM

SGT Kent Bredbenner — Mon, 27 Apr 2020 17:00:45 -0400

Just like anywhere else in the world you need to adjust your sleep schedule. If you work 1600-0000, adjust your sleep so that you wake up at 1400-1500. Enough time to shower, eat and be to work on time. And just like if you worked a day shift you'll be awake 4-6 hours after you get off. Do your PT, shower and go to sleep. Don't try to get some sleep and do PT and then sleep again.
This is why, when soldiers are on patrol and stop for some rest. The best watches are either the first one or the last one. That way you get the most uninterrupted sleep.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2020 9:36 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Apr 2020 21:36:15 -0400

This is an easy problem to solve. Adjust your work/sleep schedule. Most people do not go to sleep right after work, so you can do the same only at different times of the day. Report to formation at 0530 then go to bed. That gives you plenty of time to sleep before reporting to work at 1600. If you need to do something during the day before work, you can get 7-8 hours sleep and still have a couple hours before work to take care of things. Problem solved.

Response by GySgt Herman Poe made Apr 27 at 2020 9:41 PM

GySgt Herman Poe — Mon, 27 Apr 2020 21:41:05 -0400

Tuff ..... in warThere’s no substitute for victory. If you train hard you can live in combat.

Response by SSG Eric Mawabi made Apr 28 at 2020 1:14 PM

SSG Eric Mawabi — Tue, 28 Apr 2020 13:14:32 -0400

It has to be done. Your unit, to include You, must be Mission-Fit!! No Exceptions!!! So when times are permitting your 1SG will ensure his/her soldier's readiness at all times!! Otherwise he/she fails at their position as well as being an NCO!!

Response by SPC Jeff Goodnight made Apr 28 at 2020 6:39 PM

SPC Jeff Goodnight — Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:39:04 -0400

Embrace the suck that is the amount of sleep if we were lucky going through boot I am 52 and that is still the normal amount of sleep I get suck it up cupcake

Response by Sgt John Merrick made Apr 28 at 2020 7:20 PM

Sgt John Merrick — Tue, 28 Apr 2020 19:20:07 -0400

You ARE whining. You are a grown man in the Army. Act like it.

Response by TSgt Gary Neville made Apr 28 at 2020 9:29 PM

TSgt Gary Neville — Tue, 28 Apr 2020 21:29:01 -0400

Thank god I was in the Air Force

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2020 9:26 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:26:06 -0400

There are more than 8 hours between PT and the start of your shift. Start your day just before your shift work. Use the 5.5 hours between work and PT for your personal time. Go to PT, conduct hygiene, go to bed. Rinse and repeat. I know it sucks that your personal time would be between midnight and 0530. But it is what it is.

Response by SPC(P) Jesus Seineke made Apr 29 at 2020 10:24 AM

SPC(P) Jesus Seineke — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 10:24:27 -0400

Just do your job, Stud. When you question yourself, ask if there is anyone in your section going through the same shift(s) with the new PT (first) formation time.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2020 10:36 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 10:36:08 -0400

I would be upset about a 13 and a half hour shift. It will blow over best thing to do is go to PT and reach out to your first line NCO 1sgt probably has no idea your on shift for afternoon PT.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2020 10:38 AM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 10:38:45 -0400

The demand you attend PT at 0530 is not unreasonable. That gives you at least 5 hours to sleep, and plenty of time to go back to sleep before you return to work at 1600. Others here are absolutely correct. When/if you deploy, you may get only 4-5 hours sleep anyway, with no time to get anymore. Welcome to adulting, military style.

Response by SFC David F. Podesta made Apr 29 at 2020 4:59 PM

SFC David F. Podesta — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 16:59:08 -0400

Suck it up cupcake. When I was in 'Nam there was one time were in constant contact for 88 days straight, and MAYBE got 2-3 hrs rest. If you can't do PT after 4-5 hrs of sleep, maybe you should be in the air force.

Response by SPC Charles Head made Apr 29 at 2020 7:47 PM

SPC Charles Head — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 19:47:29 -0400

Don't go and then file a complaint against him when he yells at you..Isn't that how the pussies in there do it now days in the "New Army"?

Response by CWO4 Charles Williams made Apr 29 at 2020 8:41 PM

CWO4 Charles Williams — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 20:41:04 -0400

Take your behind to PT. Suck it up buttercup. You must be a millennial

Response by SPC Mark Mercer made Apr 29 at 2020 10:28 PM

SPC Mark Mercer — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 22:28:41 -0400

Is this really a question? Are you really crying about this? Youre in the Army, suck it up and drive on. Army owns you and your time. When time for ETS go to a career that you feel you will get enough sleep. And what kind of unit are you with where people just dont show up for formation? Armys gone soft these days.

Response by MAJ John Douglas made Apr 30 at 2020 8:32 AM

MAJ John Douglas — Thu, 30 Apr 2020 08:32:43 -0400

Maybe at some point the command will let you do PT on your own and so long as you pass the PT test, everything will be ok. But until then, you have few options other than going to PT when the 1SG says be there.

Response by PO2 Shannon Hensley made Apr 30 at 2020 11:09 AM

PO2 Shannon Hensley — Thu, 30 Apr 2020 11:09:05 -0400

When you have to say "I don’t want to sound like I’m whining but..." you are whining, Suck it up troop, welcome to the real world, the Military has been in the training business for a few years they know what they are doing, Hardship situations are all part of the package you signed up for. Stop bitching. least you got sleep.

Response by PO1 Don Rowan made Apr 30 at 2020 3:39 PM

PO1 Don Rowan — Thu, 30 Apr 2020 15:39:49 -0400

Do what your told.

Response by PO3 Laura Thompson made Apr 30 at 2020 4:56 PM

PO3 Laura Thompson — Thu, 30 Apr 2020 16:56:20 -0400

That was the norm when I was in. I got more sleep in the Navy on many nights than most of my nights since being on call all the time. I think it made me more ready to work in the hospital field.

Response by SGT Ernest Cousins made Apr 30 at 2020 6:35 PM

SGT Ernest Cousins — Thu, 30 Apr 2020 18:35:15 -0400

One word ...SOLDIER and I also remember getting no sleep and pulling through just fine and maybe just maybe this is not the career for you ijs

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2020 7:16 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Apr 2020 19:16:53 -0400

is there a reason why you cant get some sleep after PT? That would be a large block of time to sleep in.

Response by CPT Tommy Curtis made Apr 30 at 2020 10:23 PM

CPT Tommy Curtis — Thu, 30 Apr 2020 22:23:44 -0400

You brace up and do it.

Response by SSgt Paul Mulwitz made May 1 at 2020 1:39 AM

SSgt Paul Mulwitz — Fri, 01 May 2020 01:39:38 -0400

Go to PT.

Response by SGT Robert Andrews made May 1 at 2020 2:29 AM

SGT Robert Andrews — Fri, 01 May 2020 02:29:10 -0400

Your authorized 4 hours of sleep. Go back read ucmj and do your job. You can sleep when you decide to not re up

Response by CPO Charlie Kessler made May 1 at 2020 4:09 AM

CPO Charlie Kessler — Fri, 01 May 2020 04:09:08 -0400

I have read a bunch of "you don't have what it takes..." and "wah, stop your crying, you pussy" posts, and I have to call bullshit on that. From what I'm getting you are doing what you are told, but are asking for advice on how better to handle this situation and if there is anything you can do to make it better. Albeit that you know you have to suck it up and do it no matter what, I give you kudos for reaching out to find out if any of us old salts might have a better way or at least give advice on how to handle it. I am sorry to say that most of us "old salts" are simply older versions of your 1SG and can't see past our noses on how you might improve your situation or make it better for your juniors. Used to be that "old salts" could give sage advice without condescension. We are of the Father Knows Best era, too. We "old salts" should look deep into ourselves and see if we are just regurgitating what we heard back in the day or if we really are trying to be valuable to those who have taken up our mantle and want to give good, honest advice like we might have appreciated in our time. Most of us didn't have a forum where we could ask a host of retired and active mentors a question. If we were lucky we might meet a guy in a bar who might answer a few questions. This is really a good forum and something I wish I'd had back in the day. Hope everything turned out for the best.

Response by PO1 Don Tillack made May 1 at 2020 7:07 AM

PO1 Don Tillack — Fri, 01 May 2020 07:07:33 -0400

I’m a retired Navy Command Fitness Leader. The Navy instruction allows PT during working hours, so why not let you do the 1600 PT? Maybe it is different in the Army, they aren’t too smart, especially in the leadership department. I hear all the stories of toxic leadership and favoritism, it’s sad really. If you’re not deployed, there’s no reason for them to act like they are under fire in Afghanistan. Take care of your people and they will take care of you.

Response by SFC Edward Sneed made May 1 at 2020 10:41 AM

SFC Edward Sneed — Fri, 01 May 2020 10:41:49 -0400

Done it many a times during my 20 year tenure. Makes a man out of you and a better soldier. But, it seems you need to make better with your time management. No need to whine, suck it up and think how good you'll feel when work is done and you can go rest.

Response by SSG Ray Elliott made May 1 at 2020 10:53 AM

SSG Ray Elliott — Fri, 01 May 2020 10:53:09 -0400

Are you the only in your platoon working these hours? 4 hours of sleep long term on a regular basis isn't a great situation. If there are others working the same hours, I would suggest you as a group go up the chain of command and request an alternate PT time so you can be more alert to work your shift.

Response by SPC Scott Sayre made May 1 at 2020 2:56 PM

SPC Scott Sayre — Fri, 01 May 2020 14:56:07 -0400

You're whining --- suck it up, li'l buddy.

Response by Lt Col George Roll made May 1 at 2020 9:43 PM

Lt Col George Roll — Fri, 01 May 2020 21:43:20 -0400

Get your lazy ass out of the rack do your PT and then go back to bed. You are a pussy!

Response by PO2 Leo Fredette made May 2 at 2020 10:15 AM

PO2 Leo Fredette — Sat, 02 May 2020 10:15:42 -0400

Did they actually tell you " You only get 4-5 hours of sleep " Or did you, go out the night before, knowing you had PT in the morning? If you went out, it's all on you, not your commands fault, that you can't manage your time.

Response by PO1 Jackson Plant made May 2 at 2020 12:00 PM

PO1 Jackson Plant — Sat, 02 May 2020 12:00:20 -0400

Not trying to sound insensitive but I worked with my CO a full bird who came in at 0500 and did PT with us at 0600 go to work then left at 1800 and he would then go home with his family and be Boy scout master then get up and do all over. Just remember in combat you won't get set sleeping schedules. Why you think we drink so much coffee. Keep chin up this will soon pass and it won't bother you anymore.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2020 4:34 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 May 2020 16:34:47 -0400

Go to the medic if you hava medical problem related to this otherwise, yeah shit sucks sometimes.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2020 7:25 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 May 2020 07:25:45 -0400

What are the others doing on your work rotation? Are they unable to do PT for the same reason? Is your squad leader or FLL available?

Response by CPL Linda B. made May 11 at 2020 1:45 PM

CPL Linda B. — Mon, 11 May 2020 13:45:46 -0400

Do the best you can take it one day at a time and be glad you have health care and remember why you are where you're at
you are in the army you are not in a civilian job;)

Response by LTC George Morgan made May 13 at 2020 4:04 PM

LTC George Morgan — Wed, 13 May 2020 16:04:52 -0400

Resolve it by completing the order and then work toward being a 1st Sgt.

Response by MSG David Densmore made May 15 at 2020 10:47 AM

MSG David Densmore — Fri, 15 May 2020 10:47:04 -0400

You said the unit has a new 1SG and Cdr. Since the 1SG knew that folks weren't going to PT, I'm going to figure he was with the unit for at least a week before the PT schedule was mandated. That Commander and 1SG had to set the tone for their new unit, and the expectation that the unit will comply with and meet Army Standards. As new to the unit leaders, it's difficult to go from being the easy nice guy to realizing you have to be a hard a$$. It's much easier to go from two mandated PT formations and every soldier is going to be there, to allowing soldiers to adjust their PT time once a pattern of attendance is demonstrated. BTW, I don't see this as a case of "toxic Leadership" of a 1SG and Cdr. I would consider this a failure on the part of the Platoon and Section Sergeants who should've been doing their friggin job by taking care of their soldiers and getting them involved in PT, even if it meant they had to do it themselves at an appropriate time, or better, set up a roster and use it to train future leaders by example and doing. Excuse me if as a retired MSG I would expect my junior leaders to do their job.

I too expect that when PT attendance returns to where it should be, and the responsible NCOs return to what they should be doing, the 1SG will be more amenable to other PT times, or a shift doing PT together at an appropriate time for their schedule with a responsible NCOIC that keeps soldiers accountable.

In the meantime, as one who is a morning person, up at 0600 even as a teenager, and doesn't do well after 2100H, I can relate to your sleep schedule trouble. We've all had times and will have times we've had to work around this, or push on with little sleep. You have to find a way to work around it, and sometimes you have to learn to "soldier on". In the meantime, try getting some sleep immediately after your shift, and take an hour or two nap in the afternoon. You might find you like it better.

The best to you in your career.

Response by 1SG Carlos E Bonet made May 15 at 2020 9:05 PM

1SG Carlos E Bonet — Fri, 15 May 2020 21:05:33 -0400

Fallow instructions, do as you told, report to your first line supervisor and let him or her know of your situation.

Response by LTC Ronald Stephens made May 17 at 2020 9:56 AM

LTC Ronald Stephens — Sun, 17 May 2020 09:56:31 -0400

Four or five hours of sleep would be a luxury under many operating conditions especially in a combat environment; deal with it.

Response by SCPO William Langston made May 18 at 2020 6:25 PM

SCPO William Langston — Mon, 18 May 2020 18:25:09 -0400

First of all, shut up! When you finish whining, shut up again! If you can accomplish that without whining about union rules or some other bullshit. Get up off your lazy and do exactly as your superiors have instructed you to do.

It ain’t Burger King and you don’t get it your way.

I sure hope this helps!!

You’re welcome!

Cheers,

Response by SFC David Johnson made May 20 at 2020 10:10 AM

SFC David Johnson — Wed, 20 May 2020 10:10:30 -0400

I'm an old soldier and can't believe I'm actually reading a post like this. Don't want to sound like you're whining? You are!

Response by Therese Iwaniak made May 20 at 2020 8:19 PM

Therese Iwaniak — Wed, 20 May 2020 20:19:41 -0400

Go to PT?

Response by PO3 Hollalina Izen made May 21 at 2020 5:20 AM

PO3 Hollalina Izen — Thu, 21 May 2020 05:20:00 -0400

Not sure how you're not able to make PT. You can do the 0530 PT; take a nap after work and before PT. Then sleep during the day. Like everyone else is saying, work on your time management.
I was in the Navy and I was my divisions PT coordinator. I made PT mandatory. I couldn't risk anyone out of shape or getting heavy. I worked in the engine room on the ships and we had to be able to escape through hatches.
When we were underway I stood the 1800-2400 watch, mustered at 0700 for work, done with workday at 1600, and back on watch at 1800-2400; this could be anywhere from a week underway to months.
Guess what? I still found time to sleep and PT; plus, working out made it where I could function properly on 4-5 hours of sleep daily. I told my boys it didn't matter if we were underway or not, PT was mandatory; most of them had a lot nicer underway schedule than I did. I told them if I could PT on the little time off I had, they sure AF could too.
Not to be a jerk but quit complaining, go to PT, and learn better time management. Like others have said, if you deploy, 4-5 hours of sleep is a luxury.
Welcome to the military kid!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2020 11:50 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 May 2020 23:50:13 -0400

I disagree with most of the comments in here. If you are working 1600-0000, and the first pt session available is 0530, naturally that's only 4.5hrs of sleep. Regulations say that service members require at least 7hrs of sleep. Sleep is a required commodity as is food and water. If 1sg wants pt at only 0530 or 1600, then they should reconsider the shift schedules to align with PT. It is unreasonable to expect a person to have their personal time between 0000 and 0430 when everything is closed dont be stupid. Regulation wise 600-20, tradoc 350-6(pg 52) I know its tradoc, but i think there's a compatible forscom reg.

Response by LTJG Kevin Matthews made May 28 at 2020 5:37 PM

LTJG Kevin Matthews — Thu, 28 May 2020 17:37:02 -0400

You need to use the chain of command, that's why it's there. Whoever is in charge of your section should be handling this, not you. Now if by chance you are the one in charge of your section, then it's up to you to address this issue (on behalf of the section) with the first sergeant. Don't go to him with a problem unless you also have a solution. On the odd chance that he turns a deaf ear, be prepared to respectfully request to speak to the company commander on behalf of your section. Don't make this about you.

Response by SSG Richard Brue made May 29 at 2020 4:22 AM

SSG Richard Brue — Fri, 29 May 2020 04:22:30 -0400

what stops you from going to sleep off PT?

Response by MAJ Linda Koppes made May 30 at 2020 1:15 PM

MAJ Linda Koppes — Sat, 30 May 2020 13:15:10 -0400

When you're in combat you sleep when you can, no matter how many hours you've been up. You do your job. So, my suggestion is to do your shift, go to PT, then hit the rack & quit whining. - Maj L. Koppes U.S. Army ((Ret)

Response by MAJ Linda Koppes made May 30 at 2020 1:21 PM

MAJ Linda Koppes — Sat, 30 May 2020 13:21:16 -0400

I'm guessing that I don't have to ask that you've never been in combat. You do your job no matter how many hours that takes, rest when you can, and start again. No time outs, no "do-overs" and absolutely no excuses. My suggestion to you is doing your shift, go to PT, hit the rack & quit whining.
MAJ. L. Koppes U.S. Army (Ret)

Response by CW4 Abdulaziz Bulling made May 31 at 2020 9:19 AM

CW4 Abdulaziz Bulling — Sun, 31 May 2020 09:19:16 -0400

You need to suck it up and follow orders. PT is for your benefit, i wish that my current employer paid for me to stay physically fit. If you don't like this answer, you are in the wrong profession.

Response by SP5 Paul Ward made May 31 at 2020 10:08 AM

SP5 Paul Ward — Sun, 31 May 2020 10:08:49 -0400

You are stuck. Do it quit whining. I spent two tours in Vietnam and 4-5 hours of sleep would have been great and that was seven days a week. You signed up to be a soldier be one and quit whining. Maybe it will be a good war story you can tell your grandkids, or maybe you can tell your grandkids you couldn't cut it the military because it was too hard for you. They wouldn't give me eight hours of sleep every day.

Response by PO3 Michael MacKay made May 31 at 2020 11:21 AM

PO3 Michael MacKay — Sun, 31 May 2020 11:21:00 -0400

You do your job and go to PT.

Response by PFC Anthony Bruce made May 31 at 2020 2:18 PM

PFC Anthony Bruce — Sun, 31 May 2020 14:18:26 -0400

Man up and do it. I had weight issues had to do pt twice a day while working shifts. I didn't complain because when I signed the dotted line I agreed to obey any orders that weren't unlawful.

Response by LCDR Mike Morrissey made May 31 at 2020 11:12 PM

LCDR Mike Morrissey — Sun, 31 May 2020 23:12:16 -0400

Just be thankful you aren't at sea. At least you have a consistent schedule and only work 8 hours a day? My sailors never had that luxury. But then, the old Navy recruiting poster "It's not just a job, it's an adventure."

Response by SrA Jon Davis made Jun 1 at 2020 1:38 AM

SrA Jon Davis — Mon, 01 Jun 2020 01:38:34 -0400

I will say this right now, the lot of you saying the suck it up buttercup deal, you are part of the problem.

The guy could have a health condition, could have a body that cant run on less than 8 hours, you are workin with incomplete information.

My guy, talk with your supervision and if that doesnt work, get seen for insomnia at medical, that should provide a waver so you can properly rest.

Seriously, so many damn meat heads here commenting but doing shit to help. And some ssgts no less.

Response by LTC Alexander Isaac made Jun 1 at 2020 6:37 AM

LTC Alexander Isaac — Mon, 01 Jun 2020 06:37:24 -0400

Go to PT.

Response by SFC Richard Williamson made Jun 1 at 2020 7:52 AM

SFC Richard Williamson — Mon, 01 Jun 2020 07:52:05 -0400

You want to solve this issue effectively and professionally? QUIT Whining and and follow your last order. Or get out!

Response by LCDR Jerry Maurer made Jun 1 at 2020 8:56 AM

LCDR Jerry Maurer — Mon, 01 Jun 2020 08:56:31 -0400

If I were you, I'd request alternate PT hours with the realization that the answer may be no. It could be worse, as a submariner, I stood a six hour watch, then worked for six hours, then stood another six hour watch, then had six hours left to eat, shower and sleep, about 4 hours sleep each day. For 70 days in a row (on patrol), 4 patrols in 2 years. The military is required to make sacrifices, thank you for your service.

Response by SGT Michael Raymond made Jun 1 at 2020 9:11 AM

SGT Michael Raymond — Mon, 01 Jun 2020 09:11:41 -0400

Wow, did you ever chose the wrong career when you enlisted ! If your narrative is accurate the New First Sgt is the only one in your unit worth anything at all. Do you not know what a Soldier is? Do you not know Your Soldiers Creed? I am embarrassed for you, real soldiers buried in Arlington Cometary Would Be Rolling Over In Their Graves were they to read your post. Man up or get out of my Army!! Your going to get someone killed with your Pussy bullshit!!

Response by Cpl Jeff Ruffing made Jun 1 at 2020 10:55 AM

Cpl Jeff Ruffing — Mon, 01 Jun 2020 10:55:29 -0400

Wow! The petty complaining on this web site just blows my mind. Why is it when an enlisted goes out and blows his brains out on wine, women and song is able to do PT the next morning, but, if it’s legitimate because of duty, they want to whine. Do yourself a favor, don’t be known as a whiner, be known for a can do person. One that can take the bull crap and keep fighting. When the shit jobs happen, Who do you think they will grab? The can do guy or the whiner?

Response by MSG Bill Yaeger made Jun 1 at 2020 12:30 PM

MSG Bill Yaeger — Mon, 01 Jun 2020 12:30:48 -0400

Take your ass to PT and stop your crying ass complaining like a Big Ass Baby WaWaWa uou need to join the boy scouts

Response by PO3 Kenneth Suvanto made Jun 1 at 2020 1:10 PM

PO3 Kenneth Suvanto — Mon, 01 Jun 2020 13:10:40 -0400

OMG! Really? It's time to bite the bullet and go to PT. Maybe you will see that everything will be alright and maybe you won't but, if you don't at least try, how will you know? What if we were at war and you were needed...would you cry about not having enough sleep. I can't even believe you are having a problem with this order! Sincerely Ken

Response by SSgt John D'Anniballe made Jun 1 at 2020 3:28 PM

SSgt John D'Anniballe — Mon, 01 Jun 2020 15:28:52 -0400

suck it up there wiill be days when you will not get sleep for days just cat naps welcome to the military.

Response by SGT Leonard Frank made Jun 1 at 2020 8:42 PM

SGT Leonard Frank — Mon, 01 Jun 2020 20:42:27 -0400

First , you dont at least not right now, but after a bit of time you might want to bring up that productivity is dropping and the possibility of mistakes might soon follow. You will have showed your can do attitude but now genuine concern. Remember follow the chain of command. Bottom line it is a lawful order and you need to obey. We have all done what the SFC wrote, and that is true, and many in combat have had to do more so please give it a chance for us and those of us who have served in harms way.

Response by SPC Paul Hayward made Jun 1 at 2020 11:20 PM

SPC Paul Hayward — Mon, 01 Jun 2020 23:20:15 -0400

get off shift run pt go get some sleep, it's that easy

Response by Cpl Ricardo Munoz made Jun 2 at 2020 12:27 PM

Cpl Ricardo Munoz — Tue, 02 Jun 2020 12:27:24 -0400

I believe you picked the wrong career. You are in the MILITARY, not Elementary School. PT and 0530 formation/1600 formation is part of being in the Military so if you are expecting to live like a civilian then be a civilian. It is incredible that we have to listen to these types of questions and have the newly enlisted feel that they need to complain about the pettiest things.

The next thing I might hear is that they need a towel to put their hands on to do push-ups.

Response by SGT Walter Drumm made Jun 2 at 2020 2:29 PM

SGT Walter Drumm — Tue, 02 Jun 2020 14:29:22 -0400

Are you kidding? This is some millennial brand BS here. One aspect of uniform service is being able to deal with adversity. Given that your duty rotation is when it is I'm figuring you have some downtime prior to being on duty at the hospital. Grab your Zzzs then, and carry on.
If it were easy son everyone would do it.

Response by SPC John Swann made Jun 2 at 2020 5:09 PM

SPC John Swann — Tue, 02 Jun 2020 17:09:12 -0400

Orders are orders. Get your ass out there as ordered.

Response by PFC Rickey Cook made Jun 2 at 2020 10:38 PM

PFC Rickey Cook — Tue, 02 Jun 2020 22:38:00 -0400

you got to pt. plain and simple. an order is that an order. plus in warzones you will not get any sleep so suckit up buttercup and pt till you drop

Response by SGT Benjamin Parsons made Jun 3 at 2020 10:34 AM

SGT Benjamin Parsons — Wed, 03 Jun 2020 10:34:56 -0400

Are you kidding me? You go to PT. Bitch ass

Response by MSG Clyde Harris made Jun 3 at 2020 2:39 PM

MSG Clyde Harris — Wed, 03 Jun 2020 14:39:00 -0400

If you are passing the required APFT, then I don’t see why your chain of command would have a problem with Soldiers not making those PT formations. As long as your supervisors have accountability for you AND you’re passing your APFT, it shouldn’t be an issue. Talk to your chain of command(first step).

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2020 2:56 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Jun 2020 14:56:28 -0400

There were several instances in my hospital days worse then that. For example, getting off at 0000 only to have to return at 0330 to go to the range. Still qualified expert. That is besides the point however. The point is once you pin on some stripes you can expect to be in this type of situation more often; and you will be expected not to complain. They are not violating any regs by expecting you to report on only 4-5 hours of sleep, so complaining will only draw negative attention to yourself. Do you not think your command is aware that they have soldiers working that shift? If you go out there and show motivation and leadership, however, you will put yourself in a positive light and may earn some recognition.
BLUF: This is one of those “suck it up and drive on” situations.

Response by CPL Joshua Campbell made Jun 3 at 2020 6:03 PM

CPL Joshua Campbell — Wed, 03 Jun 2020 18:03:26 -0400

Stop being a whiny bitch and go do PT.

Response by CW2 Michael Metzler Sr. made Jun 4 at 2020 1:55 AM

CW2 Michael Metzler Sr. — Thu, 04 Jun 2020 01:55:01 -0400

You definitely picked the wrong career path. I am a former Marine of seven years and now retired veteran U.S. Army Aviation Maintenance Officer/Test Pilot, so I have no sympathy for you. Sorry, but that's the way it goes!

Quick story for you about when I was at Ft. Polk Army base in Louisiana during our activation to Operation Desert Storm. I was test flying all 12 of our UH-1V model Huey's and when I was on the last aircraft (74-22421) I had an accident.

My commander saw that I was limping, but I would not go to see the Flight Surgeon. He came to the flight line the next morning and told me that I was finished and I WILL go see the Flight Surgeon immediately. Come to find out, I had a heel spur and hair line fracture (L/foot) and I was put in a fiberglass cast up to my knee.

That's what the outcome was, but the kicker is a bit different. We had a three mile run the previous morning and I have NEVER fallen out of a run during my entire career. This was no exception! I ran on the side of my foot throughout the whole run. Stupidity or a true sense of honor? I think it was both! Hehehe

That's my take on your question, so I believe you have some questions to ask yourself. Personally, I would NEVER even think about doing something like you asked.

When I was a Marine and throughout my U.S. Army aviation career we used to get drunk all of the time, but not once did we suggest that we should be allowed to sleep in. If you drink like a man, you need to pay the consequences. End of story!

CWO Michael R. Metzler Sr. (Cpt.)
U.S. Army Aviation Maintenance Officer/Test Pilot (retired/veteran)

Response by SPC Roger D. Pemberton Jr. made Jun 4 at 2020 8:31 AM

SPC Roger D. Pemberton Jr. — Thu, 04 Jun 2020 08:31:59 -0400

If memory serves (I've been retired since 2009) regulations allow for 4 hrs uninterrupted sleep in a 24 hr period. Given that, you adjust your schedule to follow the training/work schedule set for you by command.

Response by TSgt Michael Alewine made Jun 4 at 2020 11:41 AM

TSgt Michael Alewine — Thu, 04 Jun 2020 11:41:02 -0400

Do your job and obey lawful orders. That is simple. You are a soldier. That is not part time. If you get forward deployed, you may be on 24 hours for days or weeks. Catching sleep for an hour or two.

My wife has worked in a civilian hospitals for almost three decades. She has a regular 8 hour day, but may have call after that. She has been over 24 hours between time at home to care for patients. I in the civilian world have had 25-28 hour duty days operating cargo aircraft internationally. Welcome to being an adult!

Response by SFC Carlos Cruz made Jun 4 at 2020 11:52 AM

SFC Carlos Cruz — Thu, 04 Jun 2020 11:52:13 -0400

SPC Join to see, the reality is clear you have do PT. A-3. In accordance with AR 350-1, all Soldiers must attain a score of at least 60 points on each event and an overall score of at least 180 points. Therefore you are part of the unit & must conduct your PT.
We had our own Maddox in the 82nd airborne and they still conducting PT every morning with us.

Response by SGT Jim Basse made Jun 4 at 2020 12:04 PM

SGT Jim Basse — Thu, 04 Jun 2020 12:04:48 -0400

Although I have been out for 38 years and can no longer quote Army regs, it sounds to me like you have a CO and First Sergeant that care about their troops being physically fit. I was infantry, certainly much more strict and motivated towards PT. The only time we were guaranteed a minimum of 4 hours sleep was a mandated 4 hours rest before and airborne operation. I agree with the SFC that it sounds as though you may need to manage your own clock better. I remember all too well stumbling out after partying, running 12 miles with the smell of alcohol and puke hovering over the formation. Suck it up, make your 1st sergeant and CO proud and maybe along the way you will come to appreciate what you can do.

Response by PO2 Greg Donahoe made Jun 4 at 2020 1:53 PM

PO2 Greg Donahoe — Thu, 04 Jun 2020 13:53:23 -0400

There is no ideal standard. PT is generally considered as part of, an essential part of, a soldiers work day. If you feel that the slated PT formation times would preclude you from carrying out your hospital duties in a way that may create a hazard for those you are treating, approach your chain of command, but do so with facts and a supportable list of impacts. You may not get the answer you're seeking, but this is the only way to approach it.

Response by PV2 Colin Sparks made Jun 4 at 2020 10:03 PM

PV2 Colin Sparks — Thu, 04 Jun 2020 22:03:56 -0400

You're in the army, pal, not the boy scouts. Deal with it. You can always go back to the rack after PT. No one ever said it was an easy job. That's what makes is so great. If you don't like it, you can always quit after your tour is up and go back to being a civvy.

Response by SSG Louis McSwain made Jun 5 at 2020 11:23 AM

SSG Louis McSwain — Fri, 05 Jun 2020 11:23:31 -0400

Easy answer.. follow your orders. There will come a time that you may be required to do a lot more than PT on a lot less sleep. Suck it up buttercup!

Response by SFC George Simons made Jun 5 at 2020 11:15 PM

SFC George Simons — Fri, 05 Jun 2020 23:15:40 -0400

While the previous are all true, you might want your platoon sergeant to ask if you could talk to your 1SG to consider his appointing a PSG (yours) a PT session for off set platoons. Most 1SGs will understand you can not physically be in two places at once. As for being at am PT, get used to it.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2020 11:20 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Jun 2020 23:20:53 -0400

Honestly, this seems like a time management problem. You work from 1600-0000. Are you not sleeping before that, say 0700 to 1500? You'd get a solid 8 hours which many folks do not get and still have time between work and PT to do whatever. You could also split the sleep time if you like to nap before PT. I do not see an issue here. Many folks still have to go to PT after 24-hour staff duty; which I could understand fighting against.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2020 7:56 AM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Jun 2020 07:56:20 -0400

When I was in I was told I will only be promised 4 hours of sleep per 24 hours. I don’t want to be or sound like an ass. But we fright like we train and we train like we fight. In combat you can’t have a rest period because of lack of sleep. It sucks somedays. I would say embrace the suck.

Response by COL Robert James made Jun 6 at 2020 8:16 AM

COL Robert James — Sat, 06 Jun 2020 08:16:20 -0400

Gee a new Army. Stay sloppy and Blame your NCO. The rest of your lazy friends will support you. Makes you sick seeing this on important day like June 6.

Response by SPC Jovani Daviu made Jun 6 at 2020 11:59 AM

SPC Jovani Daviu — Sat, 06 Jun 2020 11:59:27 -0400

I think you may have your priorities mixed up. Even though I was "only" ARNG for 8 years, I did not drink, smoke or "club" during the entirety of my contract.

Response by CPO David Sullivan made Jun 6 at 2020 1:13 PM

CPO David Sullivan — Sat, 06 Jun 2020 13:13:02 -0400

I suppose that you volunteered for this? In 1967 We Stood 12 hour 1800-0600 watches in the Gun mount and had three unreps in one day. So every three days one was 36 hours...

Response by SFC Brian Gillum made Jun 6 at 2020 2:23 PM

SFC Brian Gillum — Sat, 06 Jun 2020 14:23:37 -0400

I worked all different kinds of shifts. I don’t know anyone who goes right home and falls asleep after getting off at midnight. No one.

Stay up, go to PT, go back to wherever, sleep. Get up at 1400-1500 and prepare for shift.

That being said, if you have an entire section that works this particular shift, I would think that the section NCOIC would already have a plan in place to conduct PT. If anything, that is the individual you should be working up your chain to speak to.

Response by SSG Christopher Allen made Jun 6 at 2020 4:13 PM

SSG Christopher Allen — Sat, 06 Jun 2020 16:13:07 -0400

Time management! Stay up after your shift and go to pt at 0530. After pt get breakfast and go to bed. Sleep 7-1500. 8 hrs sleep, problem solved.

Response by CPO Kurt Baschab made Jun 6 at 2020 5:40 PM

CPO Kurt Baschab — Sat, 06 Jun 2020 17:40:19 -0400

as a retired member of the armed services I to remember complaining about PT , glad to see somethings have not changed. LMAO.
After #) plus years of military service, and as a retired Coast Guard Chief,
MY best advice is to just suck it up butter cup.
Complaining only gets you a bad Reputation.
but and it a big but if you are going to push this because you believe in safe spaces, and every one gets a Trophy, hugs and time outs because they are stressed .

The best Advice i can give you is to come up with a few possible solution that doesnt make you sound like your trying to get out of PT!
the reason you do PT in the AM is to avoid the heat of the day and to wake you up, along with a few other reasons , maybe Suggest the 1600 PT Formation would be a better time for your Company. where you are more rested, but wait ....that is impossible, because you will be at work. so you really have no option unless you can convince your 1SG to allow your company to work out at say 1400 in the extreme heat of the day , this will give your company time to rest , work out there PT schedule , take a shower and get to work .

never go to your Supervisor without a few different solutions to your Problems, make sure your company on board with the Suggestions your taking to your 1ST Sergeant, he may toss them out the window or in the trash, or he may Consider them .

Most Importantly he will know you just did not come to him complaning about the problem , you offered some Suggestions , and hopefully a solution to the situation, so every one is happy.
the command is ensuring the company fitness, and you got your rest.

just remember If you stay in the serviceLong enough One day you will be the senior enlisted personal, you do not want a bunch of cry babys in your company, you want men who get the job done, who come up with SOLUTIONS TO THE PROBLEMS , you want to be pleasantly Surprised By the OUTSTANDING RESULTS OF THERE PERFORMANCE AND DUTYS. you want to know your Company can be Trusted to handle anything they are tasked with, they will PLEASANTLY SURPRISE YOU WITH THE RESULTS !

Response by SGT William Nixson made Jun 6 at 2020 7:44 PM

SGT William Nixson — Sat, 06 Jun 2020 19:44:44 -0400

Dang - stop whining and hit the rack again after PT! This isn't summer camp or the Girl Scouts, this is the Army! Don't like it, don't re-enlist, but remember you signed a contract and swore an oath!!!

Response by PO2 Joan Feledy made Jun 7 at 2020 11:31 AM

PO2 Joan Feledy — Sun, 07 Jun 2020 11:31:26 -0400

Prior to even being in the military, I got 2-4 hours of sleep a night before starting a new day and going on with work and then more going out. In your 20-30's you should be able to effectively work on 4-5 hours of sleep. After I got in, in my 30's and on a ship, I could be up for easily 18-22 hour days depending on when watches fell during the workday. If you are having such a hard time, you really might want to look into getting into another line of work. Sorry no sympathy here, the military is not what you should have chosen if sleep was a priority.

Response by SSG Dale London made Jun 7 at 2020 1:26 PM

SSG Dale London — Sun, 07 Jun 2020 13:26:27 -0400

I don't want to sound unsympathetic but I served 16 years -- 13 of which as a shift worker. Sometimes working 8 hour shifts -- others working 12 hours, and in the field often going for more than 24 hours without sleep.
Doing PT is not a problem to be solved. It is part of your job... your duty. If you think you have it rough just talk to a deployed sailor at sea who never gets more than a solid 3 1/2 hours in his rack at a shot.
How do you solve this problem? You catch a few extra winks when you can. You get up, show up for duty (and PT) and take whatever time your command gives you to catch your rest.
But the complaint, "I only slept 4 hours..." will not hold any water.
I have felt your pain myself and can tell you without fear of contradiction that this is one of the suckier elements of the army. But it is also universal. We all have had periods (even extended periods) of time when nothing was convenient.
I have one constructive comment for you though: if you are part of a significant number of people who all are working the same shift as you, you might be able to convince your 1SG to let you all do PT together at a more appropriate time. I don't see him letting you do it on your own if your CO wants everyone in organised PT.

Response by CPL Mark Garrigus made Jun 7 at 2020 9:24 PM

CPL Mark Garrigus — Sun, 07 Jun 2020 21:24:24 -0400

Go to PT and quit whining!
I never sleep more than 6 hours a night. I get up and go to work for 10 hours then home for 3 or 4 hours more work around the house the give the wife a pickle tickle and go to bed.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2020 9:15 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Jun 2020 09:15:42 -0400

CPT Giacomo M.
Are you fucking kidding me? It isn't right? You are a whining pussey. Get you shit together and grow a pair.

Response by SPC David Hannaman made Jun 8 at 2020 10:34 AM

SPC David Hannaman — Mon, 08 Jun 2020 10:34:37 -0400

You're kidding, right? This is a joke post? Life is about being tired but saddling up and doing what needs to be done anyway. Even as a civilian, you'll run into days where you couldn't get to sleep the night before (for a year if you have a kid) you still have to drag your ass out of bed and get to it anyway.

You're in the military, learning to function on little to no sleep is part of the job description. It's not always smart (I remember working on aircraft with little to no sleep) but sometimes it's just gotta be done.

Response by Maj John Bell made Jun 9 at 2020 1:26 PM

Maj John Bell — Tue, 09 Jun 2020 13:26:45 -0400

You suggest to the lead SNCO or NCO on your shift, that your shift have its own PT session at 1430 1500 and that he or she work that out with the 1SG.

Just out of curiosity... How weak is the officer and SNCO leadership? I cannot fathom a officer, SNCO, or NCO believing a unit formation is "optional." I'm guessing your officers don't show up for unit PT. Someone needs to hand them their ass.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2020 2:06 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Jun 2020 14:06:36 -0400

I see this is still going. The number of people who topped out at E4 offering career advice is rather amusing *chuckles in senior NCO*

Response by SFC Bobby Clark made Jun 9 at 2020 2:29 PM

SFC Bobby Clark — Tue, 09 Jun 2020 14:29:51 -0400

Quit whinnying, your in the Army

Response by SGT Bryan Lemmon made Jun 9 at 2020 11:49 PM

SGT Bryan Lemmon — Tue, 09 Jun 2020 23:49:41 -0400

During the first gulf war during the ground offensive we were lucky to get 2 hours of sleep that was including the medics in the track within our mech infantry company. No one said the military was easy and as other have said we have to sacrifice somethings know when to get to sleep when you get off work and save your free time for when you have days off.

Response by SPC John Coleman made Jun 9 at 2020 11:55 PM

SPC John Coleman — Tue, 09 Jun 2020 23:55:29 -0400

You’re a soldier 24 seven you do as you’re told. What did you expect from the military? Sounds like you want to be coddled. People like you want to change the military for your own benefit. That’s bullshit! I served in the infantry in the army and I did as I was told. Come on on For you need to grow a pair.

Response by MCPO Mark Burns made Jun 12 at 2020 7:40 AM

MCPO Mark Burns — Fri, 12 Jun 2020 07:40:00 -0400

Take it up the CoC. Explain your current working hours and ask if it is possible to PT at 12 noon.

Response by MAJ Rosa Thompson made Jun 13 at 2020 8:45 PM

MAJ Rosa Thompson — Sat, 13 Jun 2020 20:45:53 -0400

I was enlisted and officer, I agree with the person who said you have time management problems. On the days you know you have PT you need to sleep before you go to work if 4-5 hours after a shift don't work for you.

THERE ARE NO REGULATIONS STATING you need to sleep before PT.

Agree with when you are deployed you will need get adjusted to getting sleep when you can.

Good luck to you. Thank you for your service and sleep before work.

Response by SPC Jacob Hostetler made Jun 17 at 2020 9:27 PM

SPC Jacob Hostetler — Wed, 17 Jun 2020 21:27:11 -0400

There times I be clubbing into the we hours and still make PT, sometimes still lite. Show up to PT do the PT, and show that badass. Command will see this and make adjustment for the hours you are on duty.

Response by PO2 James Hatch made Jun 19 at 2020 2:20 PM

PO2 James Hatch — Fri, 19 Jun 2020 14:20:10 -0400

Seabee Veteran here. At our morning muster, the whole Battalion was there, all 623 of us, even our MCPOC (E9). I don't know what the medical did to cover their posts during this time but everyone except the CO and XO was there and taking part...

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 20 at 2020 5:10 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 20 Jun 2020 17:10:48 -0400

I work in the hospital too. This is very normal. Just take a nap in the afternoon. Most likely after a while they will change PT only mandatery if you failed PT test.

Response by MSgt Allen Chandler made Jun 28 at 2020 3:58 PM

MSgt Allen Chandler — Sun, 28 Jun 2020 15:58:44 -0400

First in for most you go to PT. The world is not fair. In the army doesn't claim to be fair. Afterwords, I repeat afterwards, You go to your first sergeant, And explain the problem. You respectfully put forth your opinion. And I hope he respectfully listens to you. After he is going send, You follow the rules.

Response by SGT Joseph Alanzo made Jun 29 at 2020 4:26 AM

SGT Joseph Alanzo — Mon, 29 Jun 2020 04:26:44 -0400

you will do pt as part of your job in the military. there was the time I got off arm guard duty as I walk in the door pt Alanzo all I sad yes cast or yes sit. or unless you been told other way from the top

Response by SPC Brad M. made Jun 30 at 2020 4:31 AM

SPC Brad M. — Tue, 30 Jun 2020 04:31:55 -0400

I’ve never heard of anybody not showing up to PT formation because they were “tired” without getting severe corporal punishment, and maybe even a company grade Article 15. Especially as junior enlisted. But, I was 11B back in the early 90s, and that was how it went in pretty much every infantry unit in those days, I would guess.

Response by CWO3 Jim Grindstaff made Jul 1 at 2020 12:54 PM

CWO3 Jim Grindstaff — Wed, 01 Jul 2020 12:54:28 -0400

So, you get the hours between 0000 and 0530 to rest. Then, you have to PT, followed by some time to shower and eat breakfast. Let’s say that you complete all of this by 0900. From your description, this means you have another 9 hours of your own time?
Go PT.

Response by MSG Norman Carter made Jul 1 at 2020 2:28 PM

MSG Norman Carter — Wed, 01 Jul 2020 14:28:02 -0400

First, follow orders.

Second, make a suggestion that your section do PT at a reasonable time (perhaps 1400 hrs, since you have to do at least 1 hour of PT and then shower and get to work by 1600). Your section SGT should be leading this. And be sure that the 1SG will be checking in on the section from time to time. It could help if the section SGT submitted a monthly PT plan/schedule that showed he/she knew what to do to keep the section physically fit.

Third, offer to lead section PT once a week- that will grow your leadership skills and get you out front doing something good. There are a ton of activities and exercises you can do to make this challenging, interesting, and productive. While Friday is usually a 5 mile run, Monday or Wednesday could be 30 mins of yoga and 30 mins of calisthenics (with music!).

Fourth, score 300 on the APFT. Do this while your young (it's easier). But this will also make your section look good at the company training meetings, and your company look good at battalion training meetings.

Fifth, initiative is always part of the solution.

Hope this helps.

MSG Carter

Response by LTC Brian Croteau made Jul 1 at 2020 4:08 PM

LTC Brian Croteau — Wed, 01 Jul 2020 16:08:05 -0400

If you don't get off work until midnight, a 0530 formation seems unreasonable, and a 1600 formation will likely make you late for shift. Talk to your hospital supervisor. Your first NCO in your chain of equal or higher rank than your 1SG, or an officer (nurse, Dr, administrator) equal or higher than your unit commander. Ask for a "report to the 1SG time" somewhere between 0900 and 1500. Earlier would be better because you could "sweeten the pot" with an offer to assist with
those ash-and-trash details that didn't get done early in the day.

Response by 1SG Marcus Whitfield made Jul 1 at 2020 10:47 PM

1SG Marcus Whitfield — Wed, 01 Jul 2020 22:47:07 -0400

You suck it up and drive on, you signed up for the U.S. Army not the Salvation Army. If you have work schedule conflicts, then you might have to do PT on your own, just make sure you can pass the PT when it comes due.

Response by 1SG Brett Austin made Jul 2 at 2020 12:56 AM

1SG Brett Austin — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 00:56:34 -0400

Having been in the medical side (91B, 91C, 91A, 91W) forever, the only groups excluded from morning PT were those that worked the actual night shift...getting off after 0700 hrs. Unfortunately, it's part of life (less sleep than we want)...whether military or civilian. I know most everyone have said it, but suck it up and push forward. I did catch that you are a E4(P)...you need to set the example. When/if you get to combat...you will NOT be sleeping as much as you do now. BUT, maybe make a suggestion for alternate PT times and even offer to lead it.

Response by MSgt Brian Kaufman made Jul 2 at 2020 10:23 AM

MSgt Brian Kaufman — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 10:23:02 -0400

If you can't PT after 4-5 hours of sleep, the military is definitely not for you!

Response by SrA Tracy Douberley made Jul 2 at 2020 10:36 AM

SrA Tracy Douberley — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 10:36:18 -0400

Seriously!? A soldier is a soldier 24/7. Suck it up or get out. Then you can sleep all day long w/o worrying about a thing.

You are a hot mess, my friend. Good luck with your endeavor.

Response by SSG Pete Berkman made Jul 2 at 2020 11:05 AM

SSG Pete Berkman — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 11:05:47 -0400

Stop being a whiny little girl and do the PT without bitching. It’s good for you to learn to “Embrace the Suck”!!!

Response by SGT Jim Giffin made Jul 2 at 2020 11:25 AM

SGT Jim Giffin — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 11:25:56 -0400

So you get up at 0445 head to PT grab some chow afterwards and take a nap. Welcome to the Military Buttercup.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2020 12:40 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 12:40:59 -0400

Do you really believe that war is on a schedule? The enemy will not allow you 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep. The initial 2003 push into Iraq was essentially 3 to 5 days of uninterrupted engagement with the enemy for conventional forces. I am still up at 0520 every day to voluntarily do what your 1SGT makes you do. Stop whining and get with the program.

Response by PO1 Michael Wilson made Jul 2 at 2020 12:59 PM

PO1 Michael Wilson — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 12:59:41 -0400

Unfortunately, Leaders who only work Mon-Fri forget about shift workers who keep their command running. I experienced the same thing. Our Commanding Officer cared so little about shift workers they forced people to go to the weekly Wednesday morning Mandatory Command PT When concerns were raised, the only thing they said is that it is only 1 day a week. When it was pointed out that we had some people who were working over 60 hours a week and expected to go to pt after working an overnight 12 hour shift compared to the day workers working less than 35 hours a week, it was ignored. I was one of those shift workers. I lived on a base 15 miles away along with several other shift workers and we said we would go to the gym there and video our workouts which would save us 3 hours on our days off but that too was ignored. It got so bad that we had a pregnant shift worker fall asleep and rear end a car while driving home after working a shift and then going to Wednesday mando pt. Even that didn't wake them up.
My only advise is to try and talk to your command enlisted advisors and document everything with facts. If the command doesn't come to a responsible conclusion then take your documentation outside the command. I hope it doesn't come to that because it is usually bad for everybody. I only wish I documented what happened at our command more.

Response by SFC Victor Serrano made Jul 2 at 2020 3:12 PM

SFC Victor Serrano — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 15:12:00 -0400

WTF!....
I remember going to the club on Wednesdays and getting back to the barracks at 0100 hrs. and be at PT formation at 0600 hrs. without a problem...LoL

Response by SPC Roger Opfer made Jul 2 at 2020 5:55 PM

SPC Roger Opfer — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 17:55:11 -0400

Suck it up cupcake it's not that big a deal. If you think this is a big problem. Just wait you haven't seen anything yet in life.

Response by SGM Gerald Fife made Jul 3 at 2020 12:34 AM

SGM Gerald Fife — Fri, 03 Jul 2020 00:34:27 -0400

I concur with the time management. Who knows, maybe that PT in the morning will let you sleep better. How about the rest of the 1600-2400 personnel. What do they do? Do they whine about the PT also? And this is about the PT and not the time frame.

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Jul 3 at 2020 12:50 AM

SSG Roger Ayscue — Fri, 03 Jul 2020 00:50:18 -0400

GO THROUGH YOUR CHAIN TO DO THIS...Suggest that your section have PT Formation at 1300 and that they shift start times of shifts to account for PT and Meals.
IF this does not work, Request a transfer to a Line Infantry Battalion as a Medic and wait till you are a Senior Leader and remember what kind of people you had to deal with. Remember every Soldier is you teacher in that you learn what to do or what not to do from them.

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Jul 3 at 2020 12:59 AM

SSG Roger Ayscue — Fri, 03 Jul 2020 00:59:25 -0400

I read all the replies and many many said basically "Suck It Up Buttercup" BUT...Consider This guy works at a hospital...do you really want a guy that for what ever reason did not get a good nights' sleep giving you an enema or a urine catheter? Or God Forbid the wrong dose of Ultra Colon Blow Stool Softener? NO NO NO, change PT time so that they get some sleep before they come after you with the razor before surgery or next thing you know you might be an involuntary transgenner.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2020 7:29 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 03 Jul 2020 19:29:38 -0400

You are working a swing shit, that mean you need to adjust your sleep patterns. After PT, shower and go to bed. It’s so easy a cave man can do it. Millions of people work swing shifts, welcome to the workforce

Response by MSgt Lawrence Guidry made Jul 3 at 2020 11:55 PM

MSgt Lawrence Guidry — Fri, 03 Jul 2020 23:55:14 -0400

You damn whoose, you stayed out late and now you pay the piper. No where does it say you can stay out late and be given the right to get your beauty rest.

Response by PO3 Douglas George made Jul 4 at 2020 8:32 AM

PO3 Douglas George — Sat, 04 Jul 2020 08:32:32 -0400

It is a lawful order. Suck it up buttercup. Obey it.

Response by PO2 Joseph Soto made Jul 4 at 2020 2:16 PM

PO2 Joseph Soto — Sat, 04 Jul 2020 14:16:17 -0400

Sorry but you need to suck it up. Yes you are whining. 5 hours is a good day for me. Getting exercise is great for you while you are junior enlisted. Get in the exercise while you can still do it pain free.

Response by CPO Manny Perez made Jul 4 at 2020 5:03 PM

CPO Manny Perez — Sat, 04 Jul 2020 17:03:47 -0400

You are whining. Suck it up do your best. Someone will notice your effort!

Response by SSG Isaac Hardy made Jul 4 at 2020 5:49 PM

SSG Isaac Hardy — Sat, 04 Jul 2020 17:49:40 -0400

Yall should be having formation around 0900, jus those that got off at midnight, anytime we worked past 9pm we didnt have to go to first formation

Response by SGT Craig Johnston made Jul 5 at 2020 1:57 AM

SGT Craig Johnston — Sun, 05 Jul 2020 01:57:24 -0400

The last I heard the Army was not a democracy. I’ve been out for some time now, 23 years to be exact. I hope it hasn’t changed. When I was in, it was a must that every soldier remained fit and disciplined. Is this not expected of each soldier today?

Response by SPC Rj Wasser made Jul 5 at 2020 7:42 AM

SPC Rj Wasser — Sun, 05 Jul 2020 07:42:31 -0400

So what you're telling me is you'd be done with PT by 630ish yes?
Not the most inconvenient schedule, but it's not unmanageable. I suggest you quit ... as you put it .... complaining, and soldier on. You've got plenty of time to sleep; it's just not an "ideal" day.

If it bothers you that much, talk to you immediate supervisors about talking with the 1SG, and don't get your hopes up.

Response by SGT Thomas Salemme made Jul 5 at 2020 10:22 AM

SGT Thomas Salemme — Sun, 05 Jul 2020 10:22:32 -0400

LOL Go to PT. pretty cut and dry to me.
Back in the day, we would go down Academy Blvd in Colorado Springs, on sunday nights. One of the clubs was ladies night on Sundays. We would get back to Carson around 2 or 3am...totally blitzed.
We would get maybe 2 hrs of sleep....and would make our way to the aid station, which was in the courtyard of the barracks area. Our boy would then hook us up with some 'combat IV's". then we would walk out right as PT formation was happening...and we would push through it :)

Response by SSG George Holtje made Jul 5 at 2020 10:56 AM

SSG George Holtje — Sun, 05 Jul 2020 10:56:14 -0400

Go assault a follow on objective after being up for three days. ..
Two Days Later. Upon return to base. Head back to the flight line. ODA got a hit on an HVT. We're blocking the Paki border for the next two days.

Response by PO3 Robert Collins made Jul 5 at 2020 11:52 AM

PO3 Robert Collins — Sun, 05 Jul 2020 11:52:30 -0400

In Desert Storm we averaged 3-4 hours sleep a day, every other day. We did this for the entire Desert Shield/Desert Storm. Yes we were at war and the war doesn't take a time out so we can get our 8 hours rack time. Now I read articles that sailors need to have 10 hours off after a watch and wonder what happened to my beloved Navy.

I pray this country never has to face an old school extended ground war again. I look at what the boys had to endure to win WWII compared to the hardships our troops say are unbearable today. Prosperous times have made us soft, both as a fighting force and as a nation. One day, I fear, someone is going to step up to the plate and exploit that weakness.

Wow, you're being asked to PT after 4 - 5 hours sleep. My hat's off to you. Perhaps they can award you a medal or something. I remember the day that we were considered government property and were technically indentured servants. We would have killed for 4 - 5 hours rack time a night.

Response by SGT Tim Tobin made Jul 5 at 2020 5:27 PM

SGT Tim Tobin — Sun, 05 Jul 2020 17:27:50 -0400

There are no regulations in that regard. In my day I got along with a lot less sleep

Response by CPT Wayne Price made Jul 5 at 2020 5:39 PM

CPT Wayne Price — Sun, 05 Jul 2020 17:39:54 -0400

Go to PT. Remember in the military combat does not operate on an alarm clock.

Response by SFC Jonathan Adams made Jul 5 at 2020 8:13 PM

SFC Jonathan Adams — Sun, 05 Jul 2020 20:13:51 -0400

You are whining. Do your PT as directed by the commander and 1SG. Salute and move on or GTFO.

Response by SFC Dr. Jesus Garcia-Arce, Psy.D made Jul 5 at 2020 10:11 PM

SFC Dr. Jesus Garcia-Arce, Psy.D — Sun, 05 Jul 2020 22:11:21 -0400

If you can't work on only four to five hours of sleep, you are in wrong career. When you get deployed you will get sleep less than that. Remember you belong to the Army not to school.

Response by SPC Dan Kissling made Jul 6 at 2020 2:45 AM

SPC Dan Kissling — Mon, 06 Jul 2020 02:45:29 -0400

How bout you quit being a puss about it, my first mission in Iraq was 5 days and I only got 8 hours of sleep and my command didn't see me complaining about it. You volunteered to serve, nobody forced you, so time to rise to the occasion or not be an embarrassment to your branch by having the integrity to talk to someone about getting out.

Response by SP6 Sue Hunt made Jul 6 at 2020 3:16 AM

SP6 Sue Hunt — Mon, 06 Jul 2020 03:16:54 -0400

You need to suck it up. If your 1st Sgt said to be in formation, you get your ass there. You’re getting paid to do that.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2020 6:57 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Jul 2020 06:57:41 -0400

What the heck. When I was in, there was no question for their orders. The only option was simple and as ordered. Go to PT.

Response by Sgt Fenner Harding Jr made Jul 6 at 2020 9:31 AM

Sgt Fenner Harding Jr — Mon, 06 Jul 2020 09:31:03 -0400

What's the problem? 1600 formation, done. I would tell the story of being in Turkey and having to get up in the middle of sleep to run a PFT to make Sgt. Suck it up.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2020 10:11 AM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Jul 2020 10:11:09 -0400

Not sure if this has been suggested, but could you get together with the others on your shift and see if there is a (third) time that works better for that shift, then bring it to the First Sergeant? If not, the schedule suggested where you go to sleep after PT could work, I’ve had to do something similar in the past. It’s not ideal, but better than nothing. For all of you telling the person to just “suck it up,” this is why we have a retention problem. If you are unwilling to make minor adjustments to schedules to ensure the safety of your people and those they take care of, then don’t complaining about manning shortages when people leave after their initial commitment.

Response by 1SG Edward Cullen made Jul 6 at 2020 12:23 PM

1SG Edward Cullen — Mon, 06 Jul 2020 12:23:14 -0400

Hahaha hahaha

Response by MSG Felipe De Leon Brown made Jul 6 at 2020 2:02 PM

MSG Felipe De Leon Brown — Mon, 06 Jul 2020 14:02:02 -0400

All active service members have the personal responsibility to maintain themselves at the highest level of physical fitness humanly possible. Because I can emphasize with your feelings of being between a rock and a hard place, may I offer two suggestions?
First, I feel that it might help if you do what you can to adapt to the circumstances while keeping in mind how daily PT will benefit you and your personal wellness. Hopefully, your immediate chain of command might be able to recognize that sleep deprivation undermines performance of duty.
Second, you might want to request an open-door meet with your leadership (showing initiative) and discuss how you might be able to maintain a high level of physical fitness individually while you fulfill your duties on the swing shift. I've been there (night radio watch 1800 to 0600, etc.).
I never enjoyed unit PT but accepted early on that it was beneficial. Also, I had the responsibility to lead by example. Now, at 72, I am grateful for all the NCOs who pushed me and my contemporaries even when I wanted to wimp out.

Response by CPL Steve Freeman made Jul 6 at 2020 5:07 PM

CPL Steve Freeman — Mon, 06 Jul 2020 17:07:20 -0400

Do as you're told

Response by Cpl TImothy Gerber made Jul 6 at 2020 5:38 PM

Cpl TImothy Gerber — Mon, 06 Jul 2020 17:38:03 -0400

Lol. Eat well sleep when you can. Remember you’re supposed to be supervised so if your higher ups are doing the same thing... well... there’s worse like deployment

Response by SPC Ron Clark made Jul 6 at 2020 6:45 PM

SPC Ron Clark — Mon, 06 Jul 2020 18:45:32 -0400

Go to PT!

Response by SPC Charles Sewell made Jul 6 at 2020 10:42 PM

SPC Charles Sewell — Mon, 06 Jul 2020 22:42:21 -0400

SPC Davis, suck it up and drive on! You are a United States Soldier. You don't realize it now but you train for a reason, to be better than your enemy. We did PT twice a day in the desert in the dark so not to been seen by the Republican Guard (the bad guys). Your Commander is there to take care of you to see that you survive. We always did a little bitching and complaining but we new it was best and we new we were the best. There was always a few who would fall out on the run to throw up but they would fall back in when getting rid of the weight. During combat operations we survived on 5 hours sleep a week. You can do it , your body gets use to it and you get in the rhythm. You don't see all this right now but you will later. Your CO is running with you right? You are young you can take much more training than you realize. When it comes time to beat your enemy, and that time will come, you have to be better prepared than she is, that will be your advantage, THINK WAR. Good luck soldier.

Response by Sgt Lyle Summerfield made Jul 7 at 2020 4:09 AM

Sgt Lyle Summerfield — Tue, 07 Jul 2020 04:09:51 -0400

Remember, 24/7 365., on duty ALL the time.! If your MOS is medical, then work it out,unless you are TAD. Deal with it, stay fit., adapt,overcome,improvise.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2020 7:00 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Jul 2020 07:00:48 -0400

Your a Soldier, deal with it, the question is why are you only getting 4-5 hours of sleep? If your in a field like a Medical MOS and work in shifts, then the unit should adjust times for PT hours, but it is the Soldiers doing to get adequate rest/sleep, everything is time management and it’s on you how you use your time, what more important, going out, playing video games, drinking or getting the much needed sleep to function throughout the day.

Response by CPL Dan Styles made Jul 7 at 2020 9:22 AM

CPL Dan Styles — Tue, 07 Jul 2020 09:22:45 -0400

we ran on after all nighters smelling of kimche and soju all the way home

Response by CPL Dan Styles made Jul 7 at 2020 9:24 AM

CPL Dan Styles — Tue, 07 Jul 2020 09:24:01 -0400

Has it changed this much since 2005? we ran after all nighters reeking of kimche and soju

Response by SCPO Ken Badoian made Jul 7 at 2020 9:37 AM

SCPO Ken Badoian — Tue, 07 Jul 2020 09:37:44 -0400

No issue, just do what you are ordered to do. Oh my the enemy are attacking but I only got four hours of sleep. Get your snowflake butt out there or do like SFC Michael suggested GTFO. Better still get your ruck on and do a twenty mile out and back. MMCS(SW)(SS) USN ret.

Response by SPC Thom Knott made Jul 7 at 2020 5:17 PM

SPC Thom Knott — Tue, 07 Jul 2020 17:17:00 -0400

You go to fucking PT and man up. You can sleep when you die.

Response by GySgt John Deere made Jul 7 at 2020 8:28 PM

GySgt John Deere — Tue, 07 Jul 2020 20:28:43 -0400

Marines never got a choice!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2020 9:37 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Jul 2020 21:37:40 -0400

Yeah man, make a schedule. You'll be igght.

Response by PO2 Robert Stahl made Jul 7 at 2020 9:47 PM

PO2 Robert Stahl — Tue, 07 Jul 2020 21:47:31 -0400

Suck it up buttercup. We stand midwatch, get up, muster at 7. Lucky to get an hour before watch and 2-3 after. Man up. (75 year old Gunners Mate, 'Nam 2 years.

Response by SFC Steven Barry made Jul 8 at 2020 12:17 AM

SFC Steven Barry — Wed, 08 Jul 2020 00:17:36 -0400

You do what you're told to do.

Response by SSG Frank Garvis made Jul 8 at 2020 8:16 AM

SSG Frank Garvis — Wed, 08 Jul 2020 08:16:04 -0400

Where's my popcorn? LMFAO

Response by SPC Nazareth Berlanga made Jul 8 at 2020 8:36 AM

SPC Nazareth Berlanga — Wed, 08 Jul 2020 08:36:10 -0400

What has happened to the Army? When I was in, PT was not optional. Rain, sun, or shine, we did PT. The only way to get out of it, was to have a note from the doctor, called a "profile". Once when I re-enlisted, I had to do PT in the dead of winter, even though the only PT uniform I had were those thin black shorts and that grey army T-shirt. Froze my ass off that year. If I had the money to spare, I would have just bought the uniform, but that's the reason I re-enlisted. I think you should just stick with it. It will only make you harder.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2020 8:39 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jul 2020 08:39:18 -0400

You can do what we all have done and just go, ask to switch shifts, take a nap after PT or comb your command instructions for some kind of relief but do remember that deployments mean a lot longer hours where I remember only being allowed 6 hours off shift a day.

Response by SFC William Linnell made Jul 8 at 2020 10:34 AM

SFC William Linnell — Wed, 08 Jul 2020 10:34:45 -0400

How to address this? There is the old starter line of back in my dad but the Army seems to be more soft in the past 10 years. Soldiers have been accomplishing the task of doing shift work with less slept. Sure they bitch at times. You find ways that work for you. You mentioned new 1SG and CO. They are assessing the company Soldiers and how they perform. Don't worry about what reg covers what to make whatever appeal makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside. You work in a Hospital. Your not in the elements sucking it up so be grateful. You could still be working after PT up till your shift to work in the hospital. Which you left out of your explanation. After PT is over are you able to go back to your room and sleep or do you have to go to work say..in the motorpool?? If not the motorpool and you can go back to your room...why are you bitching?? Ideally its a preferred option that a Soldier works an 8 hr shift with 16 hrs off. But that isn't always achieved. Plus taking naps when you can it very helpful. Physical fitness is mostly your responsibility to stay in shape. 1SG is just making sure it's accomplished and things should even out once they get adjusted. Your PSG's, SFC's, should be briefing the 1SG about this and not be YES men. Good luck. I came off CQ and 1SG had me listed for Guard Duty that day. He wouldn't change it even though my PSG made him aware of it. So I went to Guard mount, took Demand and had that day off and they next. So win win. :) You'll be ok SPC. Nothing but a thing that you can't handle.

Response by Pvt Rip Masters made Jul 8 at 2020 1:13 PM

Pvt Rip Masters — Wed, 08 Jul 2020 13:13:32 -0400

We worked a Port & Starboard ;Before we were dismissed for are 24 off we did PT & junk on bunk. Suck it up , part of the regimentation ; what did you sign up for ROSE GARDEN ? SF.

Response by SPC Steven Depuy made Jul 8 at 2020 2:23 PM

SPC Steven Depuy — Wed, 08 Jul 2020 14:23:04 -0400

Wait till your my age, your lucky to sleep that much. Honestly, it shocks me to hear you complain about that. All I will say.

Response by A1C Gregory Gilles made Jul 8 at 2020 6:52 PM

A1C Gregory Gilles — Wed, 08 Jul 2020 18:52:47 -0400

BTDT, now even as a civ I only get maybe 5-6 hrs at most cost of service

Response by PO2 Justin Marsh made Jul 8 at 2020 8:41 PM

PO2 Justin Marsh — Wed, 08 Jul 2020 20:41:03 -0400

If you needed sleep, Uncle Sam would issue it to you. You get to complain about it that’s your role as a junior enlisted. (Google terminal lance). As I was told, “DO YOU NEED A STRAW” Why? “TO SUCK IT UP”.

Response by CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) made Jul 8 at 2020 11:40 PM

CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) — Wed, 08 Jul 2020 23:40:56 -0400

I would talk to your your squad leader or PSG first, maybe then they can resolve this issue. Granted, if you get off shift at 2400 hrs it takes some time to get back to where you need to sleep and get actually get to sleep. Now I've been out partying in my younger days only to get back in time to change into PT uniform or maybe sleep for an hour or two but that was on me (and the guys with me). Use your chain of command before you try the open door policy most commanders and 1SG's have. Talk to your chain in person, not email, unless there's a special reason you want it documented in writing. I would avoid email at first.

Response by SN Charles Rickborn made Jul 9 at 2020 3:09 AM

SN Charles Rickborn — Thu, 09 Jul 2020 03:09:06 -0400

Suck it up like we all did and do it. Ether that or puke out for the good of the service!

Response by CPO Jim Brown made Jul 9 at 2020 6:38 PM

CPO Jim Brown — Thu, 09 Jul 2020 18:38:40 -0400

DBAP!

Response by Col Randy Hagan made Jul 9 at 2020 8:05 PM

Col Randy Hagan — Thu, 09 Jul 2020 20:05:07 -0400

SPC, as a guy who served actively for nearly 40 years, officer, NCO & enlisted, I will tell you that you'd better get prepared for more of these days. When you go into operations, your battle rhythm doesn't always allow for "oh captain, I'm not going to get my 8 hrs of sleep, you need to change it up." Bud, in the heat of uptempo ops, you may have a long string of nights where you MIGHT get 4 hrs. So, my advice to you is work on ways you can adapt to operating with less sleep. It may come in handy one of these days.

Response by Sgt Ron Harris made Jul 11 at 2020 4:43 PM

Sgt Ron Harris — Sat, 11 Jul 2020 16:43:36 -0400

If you get deployed, 4-5 hrs. of sleep will be your LAST concern. It's time your generation grew up and joined the real world. I spent 16 1/2 months in Viet Nam, on duty from 18:00 to o:600 6 - 7 nights a week. I was to sleep during the day. On base, I was on the 2nd floor, 3 feet from a tin roof. The temps. in the bay was 130 - 135 degrees! Not much sleep there, I would spend most of my days in the NCO club where it was air conditioned. When I left country on 27 Oct, 1969, it was a COOL day. At 14:00, it was only 103 degrees with humidity ALWAYS in the upper 90's. That feels a whole lot hotter than some dry dessert. As of this date, I'm 73 yrs. old, I STILL DON'T GET MORE THAN 4-5 hrs. of sleep per night. I was a Journeyman Lineman for over 40 years, when you go on "storm", you're on 16 off 8 /day, 'till the Utility releases you.
When my son was 17, he joined the Army. When he was in school, his mother would get him up, on off school days, he would get up at the crack of noon. Before he departed for the Army, I sat him down and had a little talk with him. I told him once you get in the Army, your ass is theirs! No more sleeping in. If you don't get up at Revelly, your in deep dodo! They don't play games. Don't try to beat the system, they've seen it all and know how to take care of you. Keep that in mind.
At that time, the NCOIC could latterly knock your d..k in the dirt, so you did NOT want to draw undue attention to your self. My advice is to grow a pair, man up, and do as required!

Response by MAJ Rick Howard made Jul 12 at 2020 1:23 PM

MAJ Rick Howard — Sun, 12 Jul 2020 13:23:14 -0400

Dude SIUDO,,,Suck it up and drive on!

Response by SPC Juan Romero made Jul 13 at 2020 8:21 AM

SPC Juan Romero — Mon, 13 Jul 2020 08:21:41 -0400

I don’t know what is your situation but when I was in, that was not an issue. However I was an 11B and sleep deprivation was part of the training

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 14 at 2020 4:50 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Jul 2020 04:50:03 -0400

Sorry SPC Davis, not a whole lot of professional responses in this forum to your question. Read your regs, but most likely you'll have ton break up your sleep into two 4 hour sessions. I see this post was a year ago but the replies from people that are supposed to take care of soldiers is disheartening. PT and living in a 24 hour training environment is more important than strong healthy soldiers ready to deploy. Guess that's why people from other units get cherry picked and attached to units that have a bunch of beat up soldiers that can't maintain because of ridiculous ego centric policies. I feel for ya. Get your experience and be a professional civilian, they'll love you in the real world.

Response by SSG Red Hoffman made Jul 15 at 2020 8:31 AM

SSG Red Hoffman — Wed, 15 Jul 2020 08:31:23 -0400

Wawawa....no solution necessary. Live with it...or get out. Thank you for your service.

Response by SP5 James Johnson made Jul 19 at 2020 7:59 PM

SP5 James Johnson — Sun, 19 Jul 2020 19:59:04 -0400

WOW, back in my basic days we worked till 1-2 AM polishing belt buckles. You know the ones we had to drag over the gravel yard while low crawling cause we didn't do 50 push-ups correctly. Then we were up at 4 to clean the Barracks bay. Oh, then, our DI would deliberately walk thru mud then our just polished bay and demand why the bay was muddy. He did this every day for 12 weeks. This was Ft Campbell Jan 1968. And every swing dick was Nam bound. Except a few enlisted, very few. Ah the good old days. Then AIT at Ft Monmouth NJ was more fun. The chow was so bad we'd empty 2-3 garbage containers of uneaten chow after every meal. Stuff was terrible. Then it was on to Nam. Stop complaining it can always get worse.

Response by SGM Robert King made Jul 23 at 2020 11:49 AM

SGM Robert King — Thu, 23 Jul 2020 11:49:42 -0400

What i didn't see in the original post was how many days a week PT formation is required.

Response by CPT Nicholas Cucchiaro made Jul 28 at 2020 9:06 AM

CPT Nicholas Cucchiaro — Tue, 28 Jul 2020 09:06:48 -0400

You can’t handle it then find another career

Response by SSG Paul Headlee made Jul 28 at 2020 10:06 AM

SSG Paul Headlee — Tue, 28 Jul 2020 10:06:49 -0400

You have your orders. Follow them. As soon as you can, write a request addressed to your Company Commander and sent up through your chain of command asking for a deviation from the training schedule. You can provide supporting reasons and ask your PSG or equivalent to go to bat for you too. How is your PT score? Can you handle maintaining an adequate level of fitness on your own? If your company has soldiers who do poorly on the p.t. test the leadership team must fix that. They don't want to be in that situation and that's why you are kind of caught in a challenging position. Regardless of MOS, soldier's need to be disciplined and physically fit. Barring that, we don't need them regardless of how brilliant they are. Sounds like you are trying to carry out the commander's orders, so good on ya for that. Your suggestions will carry more weight when you are consistently doing what is expected of you. Just as an aside, I spent a decent portion of my career in the field and getting 4 hours of uninterrupted sleep in a 24 hour period didn't happen too often. So if I could do it I know you can do it.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2020 2:27 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 14:27:18 -0400

Wtf are you talking about?

You have 24 hrs in a day. You know what you do? You do what every human being on earth does who works a night shift: sleep in the day time.

Sucks to suck, but sounds like you dont want to inconvenience your social life. If you go to sleep at 0800 every day, 7 hrs later is 1500.

What is the problem?

This is called 'adulting'. You chose the medical field, this is what the medical field does.

Its also what MP's do, it's what pilots do, SF and Rangers do, it's what a shit load of people do.

It's what grown ass men do.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2020 2:28 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 14:28:13 -0400

You got 4 to 5 hours of sleep , and you can’t do PT , and you’re a soldier ? I’ll tell you what my my leaders would tell me and what I would tell my soldiers , suck it up and drive on . Now I could see a problem with quality of life if this was an ongoing issue , where this was happening for months at a time or longer but other than that , your 1SG is in his position to make those calls .

Response by CPT Keith Whitter made Aug 6 at 2020 3:51 PM

CPT Keith Whitter — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 15:51:32 -0400

Professionally, your main issue is that in order to provide your skills in the most extreme environments under unbelievable conditions you need to train your body to operate at 100% with little or no sleep for as long as it takes. In my eleven years I rarely got 5 hours of sleep. In fact, when I became a civilian it took me a few years to break the cycle of five hours of sleep. My best advice for you is to suck it up and get out there and train your body. The last person you want to make an enemy of is the 1SG. So, go out and prove yourself capable of adapting to these new demands and after a few months of showing the 1SG what your made of put in a written request for either a different shift at the hospital or a different time schedule for PT.

Response by MSG Richard Worrall made Aug 6 at 2020 4:13 PM

MSG Richard Worrall — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 16:13:39 -0400

Go to PT, there is no real difference in doing PT before or after work. IF this life does not suit you, find another job! Being a soldier is an honorable career and it takes a special person to do it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2020 8:20 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Aug 2020 08:20:26 -0400

Since you are Junior Enlisted, you will need to learn the proper use of Chain of Command. Talk to your section leader, then have them talk with the Platoon SGT. You should be able to talk to both at the same time. Just remember, 1SG is proving a point and it probably will not last long. suck it up and go back to bed after PT, your shift starts at 1600... what else would you be doing after 0630 (after an hour PT)?

Response by CDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2020 9:46 AM

CDR Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Aug 2020 09:46:59 -0400

On naval ships, if you stand the 00-04 watch you still have to be present for the 0700 roll call and do morning activities. You just gotta suck it up and get used to it.

Response by SFC Edwin Alices made Aug 8 at 2020 4:00 PM

SFC Edwin Alices — Sat, 08 Aug 2020 16:00:09 -0400

It sounds as it is official. You are whining. There is a regulation that address sleep time. However, it is only applicable during a combat operation. If you care to know what it says, if I remember well the Soldier should be allowed four hour of uninterrupted sleep for during a 24 hours period. During sustained operations, the SM may get one day off after so many days of duty. Again, I do not think this helps you. Follow the orders of your leaders without complaining. You can make a request to your first line leaders. But, I am sure they already are fully aware of the situation.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2020 7:17 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 08 Aug 2020 19:17:04 -0400

Get educated on the Performance Triad and bring it to the Command that way, but make sure you are explaining why you are only getting 4-5 hours of sleep.

Response by COL Mike Standish made Aug 9 at 2020 2:51 AM

COL Mike Standish — Sun, 09 Aug 2020 02:51:48 -0400

Why not ask to move afternoon PT to 1430 or 1500? Barring that, I assume their are NCOs on your shift; why not suggest they run a PT formation? Seems to me this is looking for a solutions that meet both needs of the Army (your physical training) and supporting the important work you do. Presenting these options to your leadership in a respectful and constructive way shows that your on the team and developing the skillset to problem solve and become a leader yourself.
I would hope that they would listen, but you have to understand they are acting within their responsibliites and that their is no recourse but soldier up if they decide not to alter their decision. I don't know the circumstances, but try to put yourselves in shoes of the leadership. One of their obligations is to maintain the physical health of the force IOT prepare for the stress of combat (and the enormous stress casualties bring to a hospital), meet standards, mitigate having to separate, counsel, and run an overwieght program for non-complying soldiers, and most of all to look out for your individual health--as a health worker you already know that poor physical condition translates into poor mental condition and job performance decrement.

Response by 1SG Charles Simpson made Aug 9 at 2020 3:30 AM

1SG Charles Simpson — Sun, 09 Aug 2020 03:30:33 -0400

I think it would be best for both parties if you requested a discharge because you are not able to adapt to military discipline and regimentation. Second choice would be for you to request reclassification into the Double 0 Grunt world where you could work 24 hour shifts everyday and still make all required formations or get kicked out for the good of the army. The military force of the USA is not designed to be a democracy where you can be given all the individual pleasures you want.

Response by SPC Thomas Mapplebeck made Aug 9 at 2020 11:53 AM

SPC Thomas Mapplebeck — Sun, 09 Aug 2020 11:53:40 -0400

While stationed in Germany there were many PT formations and for PT we were in our clubbing clothes. Rolling through the hole in the gate crossing the farmers field just in time for roll call. Our first sergeant did care what you were wearing. BUT if not in PT clothes you were in the front of the pack and no falling out to puke. Indian sprints. Motto: adapt and overcome.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2020 2:43 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 09 Aug 2020 14:43:27 -0400

As I re-read this thread, I can't help but notice... wow, there are a lot of people willing to shout "old school" as they justify not taking care of their Soldiers. Beating your chest about how hard-core you are isn't a substitute for leadership.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2020 4:32 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 09 Aug 2020 16:32:59 -0400

Show up, do PT. allow your Squad/ PLT/Section Leadership try and convince the 1SG to adjust his views

Response by PO2 Matthew Stacy made Aug 9 at 2020 7:34 PM

PO2 Matthew Stacy — Sun, 09 Aug 2020 19:34:55 -0400

For now just go to the one that doesn't conflict with your duty shift. Ensure that when they take muster for PT you are acounted for. If the person you report to in the hospital is other than the person you report to for PT make sure that person knows. Adjust your person schedule around PT and duty. If your section rotates the time they stand duty, just suck it up. You'll be rotating out of your problem, and someone else will be rotating in. If sections don't rotate shifts you could always request a change of section. They might say no, but if you don't ask you are saying no. Either way it may be very inconvenient, may be very difficult to do you best, but I think your orders that you are complaining about are still legal, and you could be setting yourself up for a world of hurt, starting with some NJP if you don't comply.

Response by SPC Richard Zacke made Aug 10 at 2020 8:01 AM

SPC Richard Zacke — Mon, 10 Aug 2020 08:01:52 -0400

@SPC(P) (Verify To See) Suck it up son your in the Army now!!!

Response by LTC Dallas Powell made Aug 10 at 2020 8:06 AM

LTC Dallas Powell — Mon, 10 Aug 2020 08:06:36 -0400

Manage your time better, suck it up, and realize that this too will pass.
I see this was originally posted a year ago and that you were promotable -- hopefully it all worked out for you without too much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Response by SSG Dwayne Delaney made Aug 10 at 2020 8:15 AM

SSG Dwayne Delaney — Mon, 10 Aug 2020 08:15:56 -0400

You have a problem with a 5:30 PT formation? That was perfectly normal when I was in. Even after all night CQ duty, 2 hours of guard duty in the middle of the night, a 12 hour overnight shift in the border ops center, a late night getting gear and uniforms squared away or just partying with buddies into the wee hours of the morning. Sounds like your not Army material. Do your time stay out of trouble and find a new career.

Response by SSG Alfred Woods made Aug 10 at 2020 10:36 AM

SSG Alfred Woods — Mon, 10 Aug 2020 10:36:46 -0400

As a junior enlisted personnel, it shouldn't be a problem for you to explain your situation to your leader(s). If your work schedule is morning or afternoon, you may need to adjust your time to allow for PT, late evenings with friends or weekend outings, does not figure into ones personal responsibilities. Their are many places around the military, where a soldier is responsible for his\her own fitness and training for physical fitness test. Most training manuals will tell you how an exercise is to be done. The unit or organizational policy will outline the training as well as who should be in attendance of physical fitness training, all the way down to the type of PT to be conducted should a soldier be medically limited to certain exercises. It would seem, your problem can be fixed and it would most likely involve you being committed to doing what is expected of you, even if you have to do it on your own, before or after work. You can come up with your own solution, but keep in mind, it would need to be heard and agreed upon, by you supervisor or someone directly involved in your chain of command.

Response by SGT John Prolo made Aug 10 at 2020 10:50 AM

SGT John Prolo — Mon, 10 Aug 2020 10:50:23 -0400

I have been out of the military for 22 years, and in 15 years prior to that. What the hell happened to our military? Sleep deprivation was one thing we could count on back then.

Response by SSG Watis Ekthuvapranee made Aug 10 at 2020 11:18 AM

SSG Watis Ekthuvapranee — Mon, 10 Aug 2020 11:18:05 -0400

4-5 hours is good enough without hinder performance and thinking. Thou, 6-8 is preferable. If your lack of sleep due to duty requirement, your NCO should give you permission to do PT in the afternoon and having you report for duty at work-call formation. That is if he betting that the PL and PSgt not going to have his bacon in the morning. Usually, your NCO should have called and arranged this that night. Usually, if your PT score is high, you would not be doing PT that day. However, if you are average or lower, you will be doing PT with your favorite Buck Serge. That's what I have had done while I was still in active duty.

On the other hand, if you were out late having fun, you'll have to suck it up and pay for it. Heck, me and my whole squad came back from our outing, changed, and went to first-call formation for PT and work all day. But when it comes to lunch, we slept like a baby. In Korea, after the Super Bow party, the whole company, 1st Sgt included, were all sh** face during first-call and has to endure the rest of the day.

Getting used to minimal sleep is what you must learnt how to live with, during the invasion toward Baghdad most Soldiers and myself included went for 3 days straight with only 4-5 of sleep, average about an hour a day. I call it, "race to Baghdad". Build character, man, it's building character.

Response by Capt Robert Rackleff made Aug 10 at 2020 1:24 PM

Capt Robert Rackleff — Mon, 10 Aug 2020 13:24:57 -0400

Army

Response by SSG Eric Blue made Aug 10 at 2020 2:08 PM

SSG Eric Blue — Mon, 10 Aug 2020 14:08:26 -0400

Get off shift, nap for about two or three hours, get up, go to PT, get that $#!+ done, bed back down for at least four more hours. This is my suggestion to YOU only. Deal with this as best as you can while you have the opportunity to sleep because when you deploy, your hours will be insane! If it is something you cannot adapt to and overcome after giving it a FAIR and HONEST effort, this job may not be for you.

Response by 1LT Voyle Smith made Aug 10 at 2020 5:31 PM

1LT Voyle Smith — Mon, 10 Aug 2020 17:31:50 -0400

Suck it up! You’ve got your orders!

Response by SFC Cindy Bauman made Aug 10 at 2020 6:00 PM

SFC Cindy Bauman — Mon, 10 Aug 2020 18:00:19 -0400

OH for pete's sake!!! Get deployed!! You will work for days on end with little sleep and your physical activity will go far beyond anything you do in PT!!!

Response by MGySgt Charles Restifo made Aug 10 at 2020 11:34 PM

MGySgt Charles Restifo — Mon, 10 Aug 2020 23:34:57 -0400

Go to PT, really it is at mosts hour to an hour and a half add in the benefit to your health. Look towards the positive.

Response by CPL John Fournier made Aug 11 at 2020 4:38 PM

CPL John Fournier — Tue, 11 Aug 2020 16:38:44 -0400

Just go PT and bitch about it later you’re in the military 24 hours a day

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2020 6:32 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 11 Aug 2020 18:32:24 -0400

Having worked in both FORSCOM (USASOC) and in the MEDAC I will say being a leader you have to be more creative to accomplish the mission and keep your Soldiers in mind a bit more in a hospital. Especially with COVID and my staff being worked to the bone we had to find new ways to maintain our physical fitness and still meet the mission.
I would suggest to your leadership an alternative time for PT which is what we did in our section, and our APFT average was over 270, with several soldiers getting their EFMB, Air Assault, and GAFB.
Hopefully with some reason and possibly a good censure of the Troops it can get rectified. I’d suggest talking with your first line or proposing a plan to your chain of command how off shift soldiers will maintain their readiness.

Response by 1SG Patrick Sims made Aug 11 at 2020 7:53 PM

1SG Patrick Sims — Tue, 11 Aug 2020 19:53:16 -0400

I recommend you refrain from throwing up----Just do PT with the rest of the company---You're in the United States Army---Not the Salvation Army----What in hell are you going to do in a combat zone???

Response by PO2 Brian Gardner Sr made Aug 12 at 2020 1:31 PM

PO2 Brian Gardner Sr — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 13:31:58 -0400

Really? You are in the military, correct? you volunteered? you may not want to sound like you're whining but you do! God forbid you ever have to stand combat watches for 12 hours and still accomplish work. You have other hours in the day to sleep. you need to learn to adjust to what the schedule demands.

Response by CPO David Marlowe made Aug 12 at 2020 3:05 PM

CPO David Marlowe — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 15:05:29 -0400

The way it was explained to me when I pulled the same stunt. If you choose to go out and hoot with the owls, don't complain when you have to get up and scream with the eagles.

Response by Cpl Daniel McNamee made Aug 12 at 2020 3:22 PM

Cpl Daniel McNamee — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 15:22:10 -0400

I don't remember PT as being "optional". We had to be there, drunk or sober, good night's sleep or just getting off 4 hours of firewatch. Maybe the Army is different from the Corps?

Response by MSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2020 9:49 PM

MSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 21:49:14 -0400

Get with your PSG and see if he will get on board with a compromise with the 1SG. Maybe different PT times for different shifts, led by the senior NCO of those shifts. The 1SG doesn't need to micro manage. Your PSG, if on board could get the 1SG to see reason. Other good posts talk about adjusting your own hours. Obviously if you work the night shift, it sucks, but that means you work and do personal time at night, and sleep during the day. Finally, if there is a problem with individuals just not showing up to PT, then it may be a hard lesson for a little while. Bottom line, you are a Soldier, and need to Soldier up. I do think certain priorities should be aligned differently if you are not combat arms. That's my 2 cents.

Response by SPC Will L made Aug 12 at 2020 10:24 PM

SPC Will L — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 22:24:00 -0400

"The army is only required to give you 4 hours of sleep a night, and it doesnt have to be 4 continuous hours!" I still remember my drill sergeants telling us this.

Not to beat a dead horse, but it seems like more of an issue of time management. If you're working 1600- midnight (8 hrs) then you have 16 more hours in the day in which to sleep. Change your schedule, you should be waking up around 1400 hours, and hitting the rack after that 0530 pt session, that'll get you a good 7-8 hours of sleep.

Response by SSgt Myr Weeks made Aug 13 at 2020 5:30 AM

SSgt Myr Weeks — Thu, 13 Aug 2020 05:30:28 -0400

effectively and professionally... 1st, you need to keep in mind, he is issuing lawful orders. You could ask to meet with him to defend your position, but if he is adamant, then you will have to disobey a lawful order to have NJP initiated. 2nd, whereupon you can request mast according to the UCMJ. Be sure to name a sufficiently ranked individual in your chain of command to hear your case. There is a time limit within which your superiors must have you in front of that officer.

Just know that there are much worse duties that you could be pulling. Duty driver for example, is often 24 on 24 off, required to be at hand for deliveries of inter office mail during the normal work day, and at a moments notice to convey the Duty OIC, the Duty NCIOC, and even the Duty clerk, to any duty post, office, barracks, BOQ, anywhere they so desire at random times. They only promise 1 meal and 1 hour sleep while on duty.

My suggestion is get used to the new schedule, and learn to get sleep in segments; perhaps switch your sleep to AFTER PT.

Response by MSG Ricky Kammenga made Aug 13 at 2020 8:40 AM

MSG Ricky Kammenga — Thu, 13 Aug 2020 08:40:32 -0400

Sounds a little whinny to me...your in the army. suck it up soldier.

Response by SSG Elizabeth LeMere made Aug 13 at 2020 11:07 AM

SSG Elizabeth LeMere — Thu, 13 Aug 2020 11:07:13 -0400

I agree with SFC Michael D., you are being prepared for battle at any given moment, you got this soldier!

Response by CPL Joseph Langone made Aug 13 at 2020 11:32 AM

CPL Joseph Langone — Thu, 13 Aug 2020 11:32:37 -0400

If you can not handle this on 4 hours sleep What the hell will you do under combat conditions. For God sakes Your not in the GIRL SCOUTS

Response by LtCol Dennis Ivan made Aug 13 at 2020 2:33 PM

LtCol Dennis Ivan — Thu, 13 Aug 2020 14:33:34 -0400

Best bet is to see your NCOIC or Platoon Commander.
This sounds like the Co Cdr 1st Sgt have a time management and leadership issue.

Response by LCpl Sidney Green made Aug 14 at 2020 6:15 AM

LCpl Sidney Green — Fri, 14 Aug 2020 06:15:26 -0400

Terrible answers. But it doesn't appear that there is little that can be done to get around it. For one, it begins with the assumption that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. In fact, that does not apply in this case. It also assume that military rule is always right. In fact, this is more likely the idea of a single individual who is allowing his emotions to influence his better judgement.

Just because someone can accomplish a task under stress doesn't make it right or for their benefit. In fact, exercising with insufficient rest is detrimental to your health in many ways and can cause many sometimes serious consequences, including lowering your immune system as well as impairing brain functions such as memory, focus and concentration. It makes military personnel susceptible to unnecessary dangers they would not have experienced otherwise with sufficient rest and recuperation.

When you're tired you're going to make more mistakes, and those mistakes not only effect you, but everyone around you. Overall, this causes more harm than good. People that give these types of uniformed and uneducated orders are the ones largely responsible for the increasing number of heath claims many veteran experience during service and later on in life.

Thing is, they're 100% preventable. This may not be the appropriate venue to correct these errors, but it is certainly an opportunity to learn how to do better in the future than you are doing today or in the past.

Response by SGT Justin Anderson made Aug 14 at 2020 12:45 PM

SGT Justin Anderson — Fri, 14 Aug 2020 12:45:28 -0400

Wowie Batman! You're in the military now. Regulations state that soldiers can operate on 4 hours of non-consecutive sleep at minimum. They just have to allot time for you to rest. So in short, learn to manage your time properly so that you get proper rest the rest is out of your hands.

Response by Capt Robert Myers made Aug 14 at 2020 3:27 PM

Capt Robert Myers — Fri, 14 Aug 2020 15:27:11 -0400

Wow. Where are you stationed? Disneyland? We took naps in the Marines and found a wall to climb. What has happened to service to our country. Bo

Response by SFC Gary Frostman made Aug 14 at 2020 5:12 PM

SFC Gary Frostman — Fri, 14 Aug 2020 17:12:45 -0400

join the USAF

Response by Cpl C P made Aug 15 at 2020 8:37 AM

Cpl C P — Sat, 15 Aug 2020 08:37:20 -0400

Are you kidding me
Suck it up and move forward or roll out

Response by SGT Richard Lovell made Aug 19 at 2020 10:26 AM

SGT Richard Lovell — Wed, 19 Aug 2020 10:26:30 -0400

You go. Problem solved. There will be tougher times and these ‘small’ moments will you prepare you for those future ‘problems’. Don’t be ‘that guy’ in the company/platoon/squad’. You’re a soldier and an adult now. Move on.

Response by SGT Michael Lawler made Sep 3 at 2020 9:14 PM

SGT Michael Lawler — Thu, 03 Sep 2020 21:14:41 -0400

Why in the he'll did you enlist? Nothing more than a cry-baby-suck-a-tit! Apply for a dishonorable discharge & join up with an ANTIFA/BLM group. I was drafted & didn't run off to Canada or go to Russia & smoke pot!!! The service doesn't need your attitude, disposition or any other BS excuse. Enough time wasted on your personal problem. Go see a Chaplain!! SGT ML '71-77 US ARMY

Response by Lt Col Leslie Bryant made Sep 12 at 2020 9:00 PM

Lt Col Leslie Bryant — Sat, 12 Sep 2020 21:00:01 -0400

You get no slack working in the hospital! Take it from a USAF nurse! I then went onto be an AFOSI Special Agent, Forensic Consultant and Defense Attache and got even less sleep typically 4-6 hrs. During 9/11, I was in Bosnia doing peacekeeping and went to 4 hrs of sleep for 3 months taking down Al Qaeda terrorists with Special Forces and supervising US Arabic translators translating seized materials and preparing briefings for the President. If you can survive on 4-6 hrs, it gets a lot worse as you rise in rank!!

Response by MSgt J D McKee made Sep 13 at 2020 8:41 PM

MSgt J D McKee — Sun, 13 Sep 2020 20:41:28 -0400

This kind of shit is what I miss the least of all about the military.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Sep 22 at 2020 2:57 PM

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth — Tue, 22 Sep 2020 14:57:07 -0400

From a Commander and First Sergeant perspective I understand the everyone comment and have everyone show up. However, that is a measurement with a micrometer marked with a crayon and cut with a chainsaw. The CC and the 1Sgt are right BUT they probably don't know the entire story. You probably need to work it through your platoon leader and up and see what happens.

NOW WITH THAT BEING SAID...you work 1600-0000. You get up for the 0530 PT formation for lets say an hour and that takes you to 0630 and you go back home. That leaves you 9.5 hours to rest up for your next shift AFTER the PT. I really don't see an issue here. There is plenty of time for you to rest (couple of hours prior to PT and 9+ hours after.)

Response by SGT Peter Wilks made Sep 25 at 2020 10:33 PM

SGT Peter Wilks — Fri, 25 Sep 2020 22:33:58 -0400

What the hell is this? SPC Davis, you're in the Army. Not the Girl Scouts. Quit your damn whining and do your duty. Follow orders. It doesn't matter that you only had 4 or 5 hours of sleep. I am sick and tired of hearing all this whining from people who are supposed to be Soldiers. Stop it all of you.

Response by SPC Christopher Murano made Sep 28 at 2020 9:30 PM

SPC Christopher Murano — Mon, 28 Sep 2020 21:30:34 -0400

Am I missing something? Work is from 1600-2400. PT is at 0530. That leaves approximately 10 hours between end of PT and start of shift. If you are tired after "only" 4-5 hours of sleep, there is plenty of time to "rest". There is also the possibility that the military is not for you. I can remember falling into my bunk at 0445 and getting up at 0530 to begin a full day's work. Was I tired? Yes, of course. But I did what had to be done. When I signed the enlistment papers I don't remember anything about guaranteed sleep. Just my take on the situation.

Response by Capt Robert Sandmeyer made Oct 3 at 2020 5:41 PM

Capt Robert Sandmeyer — Sat, 03 Oct 2020 17:41:34 -0400

you go

Response by Sgt Chuck Serena made Oct 5 at 2020 4:57 AM

Sgt Chuck Serena — Mon, 05 Oct 2020 04:57:13 -0400

Shut up and go pt

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 8 at 2020 10:49 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 Oct 2020 10:49:04 -0400

Man there sure are a bunch of clowns on this page. First of all, functioning on a maximum of 6 hours of sleep is medically unhealthy, which a leader in a hospital should know. ("I function on way less sleep and do just fine" -stop it. There are scientific studies on this, and your anomalous, anecdotal data is unhelpful.)
Second, comparing a deployed schedule to that of in-garrison work days is nonsense. There's a reason you don't spend a career deployed. When you're in garrison, you have more to take care of than work duties. Family, household responsibilities, simply needing to disconnect from military life for a few hours are all critical components of having a healthy force. I would argue just as important as PT.
Finally, for all of you saying, "I had it worse in my day," you're part of the problem. We've had a history of not caring for our service members' mental health, and look where that has gotten us. Quit acting like everything has always worked perfectly and try to affect some positive change every once in a while.

OP: I doubt very much that your 1st Sgt is out to make your life unbearable. Odds are that he identified a problem, and found the quickest fit for the it. He probably isn't aware of how this is affecting your shift, and needs to be educated. Your responsibility in supporting your leaders is to show them when they are making a decision that negatively impacts their troops. You do this respectfully, and by using your chain of command. If the personnel above you will not address your concerns, when laid out in a respectful manner, you have other avenues, like the line above them in the CoC, going directly to your shirt, or, in extreme cases, the IG. Also, I find that it helps to present the problem in terms of a problem for the Army, not a personal issue ("Not getting enough sleep will prevent me from being effective at my job in the medical field, possibly leading to injuries, even death of other soldiers" vs "I'm sleepy and want a nap,") and to come ready with a proposed solution ("my shift could do a unified PT session as a shift at 1430, x-days per week, led by so-and-so.")

Again, for those of you trying to shut down the OP, try asking yourself if you'd rather get blood drawn or have a procedure done on you by someone sleep-deprived, or well rested.

Response by MSG Don Jones made Oct 8 at 2020 11:23 AM

MSG Don Jones — Thu, 08 Oct 2020 11:23:04 -0400

Suck it up and go to PT

Response by MSG Don Jones made Oct 8 at 2020 11:23 AM

MSG Don Jones — Thu, 08 Oct 2020 11:23:56 -0400

Suck it up and go to PT. Things will work out.

Response by PO1 Jimm Mooney made Oct 8 at 2020 1:42 PM

PO1 Jimm Mooney — Thu, 08 Oct 2020 13:42:08 -0400

Get up, go to PT then go back to bed, or go to bed AFTER PT. I know when I was in and had the late shift, I didn't go home or to my rack and go to bed right after shift. I stayed up to wind down, just like those on day shift did. When getting off at 0000, bed time for me was usually around 0300 or 0400, and I am pretty sure it is for you as well. So, change your sleep patterns so you go to bed after PT which will still give you ample time (7-8 hours) to sleep before reporting for your duty shift.

For those who are concerned about him being sleep deprived....he isn't complaining about going to work without sleep...just going to PT with "not enough sleep". I wonder what he is doing for the 8 hours or so AFTER PT. And I doubt very much that he is going to bed as soon as he gets off duty, I knew very few, if any, personnel who went directly to the rack after getting off work.....unless they partied all night the night before shift, which I think most of us did at one time or another.

Whether a JR enlisted or not, You are Stuck, deal with it. You joined the military not a civilian club or fraternity. If you are ever deployed in combat, as many have mentioned, you would be glad to have even a couple of hours between "shifts".

Response by PO1 Jerry Mason made Oct 8 at 2020 4:47 PM

PO1 Jerry Mason — Thu, 08 Oct 2020 16:47:09 -0400

BTW, how long have you been in and how did you make it through bootcamp? I was a hospital man until 1966 when I went to FMF school and became a Marine Corpsman. I spent a year in VietNam with the 1st Marine Division, then I was stationed with the 2nd Marines until I got out. I am sorry you can't do PT because of lack of sleep, so as a Marine I do not understand the problem. I am sure that your Sargent will inspire you to "Be all you can be".

Response by Cpl Mike Randall made Oct 8 at 2020 7:38 PM

Cpl Mike Randall — Thu, 08 Oct 2020 19:38:17 -0400

I was wondering if you went to combat, what Army regulations could you site to keep the enemy from cutting your head off? Embrace the Suck!!!!!!!

Response by LTC Karen McKay made Oct 8 at 2020 10:34 PM

LTC Karen McKay — Thu, 08 Oct 2020 22:34:54 -0400

Poor baby. Here's your binky--Mommy will bring you some hot cocoa.

Response by SgtMaj Glenn Woods made Oct 9 at 2020 11:15 AM

SgtMaj Glenn Woods — Fri, 09 Oct 2020 11:15:56 -0400

Suck it up buttercup!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 9 at 2020 12:29 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 09 Oct 2020 12:29:32 -0400

Your best option is to learn your installations policies. Fort Carson and 4th ID i had a similar situation happen to me well 4ID policy stated that no formations were to be held in garrison before 0630. Hope you were able to get the help you needed. But you can never go wrong with going to IG and at least asking questions. There are open door policies all the way up the chain of command.

Response by TSgt Don Dollinger made Oct 9 at 2020 2:00 PM

TSgt Don Dollinger — Fri, 09 Oct 2020 14:00:46 -0400

If they wanted you to have more sleep they would issue it to you.
In all seriousness, there is a chain of command for a reason, use it.

Response by MSgt Michael Madden made Oct 9 at 2020 2:07 PM

MSgt Michael Madden — Fri, 09 Oct 2020 14:07:39 -0400

You resolve this issue by going to morning PT. You are in the military not the Boy Scouts.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 9 at 2020 2:11 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 09 Oct 2020 14:11:10 -0400

You’re probably a fat fuck

Response by SGT Kenny Bryant made Oct 9 at 2020 2:25 PM

SGT Kenny Bryant — Fri, 09 Oct 2020 14:25:48 -0400

You pass your PT test on the extened scale, you show up on time everytime no matter where or when, you do like the other in this post mentioned and sleep and set a schedule, and when Top sees a change the he wants the situation will change as well. The other thing that happens is you are gonna get noticed for your discipline and adherence to standards and you're gonna get promoted. It's not fair or easy but that's why it ain't for everyone, Good luck and God Bless I will see you on the Green solider.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 9 at 2020 10:01 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 09 Oct 2020 22:01:19 -0400

The solution is simple: Say, "Yes, sir," and get your ass to PT. Problem solved

Response by SSgt Paulina Hicks made Oct 10 at 2020 4:01 AM

SSgt Paulina Hicks — Sat, 10 Oct 2020 04:01:34 -0400

First, I want to say, most of us understand your frustration; at one point in our military career, we have gone through something similar if not the same. But instead of asking why is this happening? Try asking what’s the lesson behind this situation? Obviously, the military does not cater to a 9-5, weekends off job; therefore, military work-life is adapting to everchanging schedules. This includes working any day of the week, any hour of the day, and as long as you are needed. We all signed the same contract where our needs do not come first; remember, service to Country is your new first. Also, instead of asking for advice about regulations to support your grievance; ask for counsel or guidance on how to adjust and fit PT into your schedule. For military members of any branch, PT is part of our regimen, part of our way of life. I would have never wanted to be deployed, especially into a hot zone, with anyone who was out of shape. PT does not only promote physical health but better sleep and effective psychological response. During 911 “Enduring Freedom,” most nights I got two hours of sleep if that. The longest I had to stay awake (work-related) was over 72 hours, close to four days. It wasn’t a choice, but the circumstances of my unit demanded it, and I wasn’t going to say no. I was deployed a few times, you are lucky if you get any sleep; and when you do, you sleep with one eye open. It was tough but is the life I choose. And I will do again, no regrets. At least those were my experiences. I made it through, and I have faith you will too.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 10 at 2020 7:40 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 10 Oct 2020 07:40:17 -0400

First Step is to use your Chain of Command. If that is not effective then request to see your 1SG using the open door policy. Come in humble and ensure you and your team has been attending the afternoon PT session. Address safety concerns for both your personnel and patient care. If you guys have been blowing off PT you do not have a leg to stand on. Assume your Commander has positive intent for the unit and there may more ti that you do not know. As a brand New MP LT I was confused at my first PT formation when I had 3 Soldiers in formation because the platoon was on Swing shift (1500-2400 which really means 0130). PT was done as part of the shift schedule.

Response by SSG John Naquin made Oct 10 at 2020 11:47 AM

SSG John Naquin — Sat, 10 Oct 2020 11:47:20 -0400

Come on now guy or gal. You work 8 hours in a single day. Yes your hours suck. At same time that is a normal day for office personnel. As a junior soldier you have no ways of fixing this or that. If you worked 08-16 you would be expected at pt. Also it is about accountability

Response by PO1 Thomas Kiss made Oct 10 at 2020 12:02 PM

PO1 Thomas Kiss — Sat, 10 Oct 2020 12:02:51 -0400

war is a dirty business and sleep looses sadly

Response by SGT Thomas LaRochelle made Oct 10 at 2020 1:49 PM

SGT Thomas LaRochelle — Sat, 10 Oct 2020 13:49:06 -0400

How do you solve this? Go do the 1600 PT and then go back to sleep. I bet you'd hit the club after your shift. We didn't have a choice of PT sessions when I was in. On Thursday night we would go to the club in Tucson, which was 70 miles away from Ft Huachuca. For some reason, Thursday was the busiest clubbing night for the college kids in Tucson. Why not Friday, I don't know. We would then haul our butts back to Ft Huachuca just in time to run in to our rooms, get changed and barley make it to PT formation at 0600. We then had to work all day. At least you can go back to sleep for a while after your PT. How did you make it through Basic? Did you complain to the DS's about not having enough sleep? I can just imagine the PT training you would have gotten if you did. I guess you should bide your time and then get out and look for another, more accommodating career. I am 51yrs old and I am working 7-10's in construction. Suck It Up, Buttercup! Oh, I see you are promotable. Say good bye to some more sleep if you make E5.

Response by Sgt Michael Gallegos made Oct 10 at 2020 6:40 PM

Sgt Michael Gallegos — Sat, 10 Oct 2020 18:40:02 -0400

Do As ORDERED...maybe???

Response by George Avery made Oct 10 at 2020 7:59 PM

George Avery — Sat, 10 Oct 2020 19:59:21 -0400

It's not just military. I pulled 40+hours in three days with a civilian public health laboratory when we had an emergency situation, and it is not unknown to work 18-20 hour days in a crunch for a client with my civilian consulting firm. It's time to put on the big boy pants and deal with life.

Response by SPC Kerry Good made Oct 10 at 2020 8:09 PM

SPC Kerry Good — Sat, 10 Oct 2020 20:09:01 -0400

I remember being told in boot the Army guarantees 1 hour rest per day, that isn't true either. Deal with it, take it out on killing enemy!

Response by SFC Michael Peterson made Oct 11 at 2020 12:26 AM

SFC Michael Peterson — Sun, 11 Oct 2020 00:26:11 -0400

Is this a real question? What the hell happened to the Army? You say that you don’t want to sound like you’re whining but, guess what, you do. Take your A** to PT and catch Z’s when you can. It’s really that simple. Your life doesn’t always line up with the needs of the Army. Guess which one take priority.

Response by SPC Matt Ovaska made Oct 11 at 2020 7:32 AM

SPC Matt Ovaska — Sun, 11 Oct 2020 07:32:06 -0400

What did you expect? Call the enemy and explain to them that they should only fight during banker's hours so you can get your beauty sleep!

Response by SPC Joe X. Tarsa made Oct 11 at 2020 12:27 PM

SPC Joe X. Tarsa — Sun, 11 Oct 2020 12:27:04 -0400

Get out of the Army if you can't take it!!!!

Response by Sgt Larry Howe made Oct 11 at 2020 2:39 PM

Sgt Larry Howe — Sun, 11 Oct 2020 14:39:35 -0400

You can start to solve the problem by quit being a pansy. For goodness sakes. Your in the military not a social sewing circle. What the hell has become of our military.

Response by SPC Dennis McQuinn made Oct 11 at 2020 7:20 PM

SPC Dennis McQuinn — Sun, 11 Oct 2020 19:20:54 -0400

The army only as to give you 4 hours of sleep. So it is your responsibility to get your butt out of bed and go do pt for an hour and a half

Response by PO1 John Johnson made Oct 12 at 2020 7:33 AM

PO1 John Johnson — Mon, 12 Oct 2020 07:33:42 -0400

Welcome to the Military, where Men and Women who came before you in hostile situations or not, endeavored to persevere and succeeded. I suggest you do the same and drop the 'woe is me" line of BS. Either that or find a new line of work.

Response by SGT Wanda Shepherd made Oct 12 at 2020 2:21 PM

SGT Wanda Shepherd — Mon, 12 Oct 2020 14:21:48 -0400

I'm going to comment on my own experience. I've worked a lot of 12 hour shifts where we had meetings and training afterwards and PT was on our own time. The supervisors who told us we only needed 4 hours of sleep did PT with the company and left at 1600 hours. Our NCOIC didn't even come to work on time after PT in the morning. Some supervisors try to be fair, others don't care.

Response by CAPT Mike Kamin made Oct 12 at 2020 2:34 PM

CAPT Mike Kamin — Mon, 12 Oct 2020 14:34:18 -0400

Get more sleep, go to bed earlier.

I’ve heard of stories where some crew have been awakened for GQ in the middle of their sleep cycles or right they got off their mid-watches. Barbaric! Call your union rep or join the merchant marine.

Response by CPT George Miley made Oct 13 at 2020 12:04 AM

CPT George Miley — Tue, 13 Oct 2020 00:04:46 -0400

Grow a pair. No regulation violated

Response by SGT Marc Riordan made Oct 13 at 2020 12:50 AM

SGT Marc Riordan — Tue, 13 Oct 2020 00:50:15 -0400

So you would be off duty between 0630-1600? Sounds like that’s the answer.

Response by SPC Nancy Detwiler made Oct 13 at 2020 5:04 AM

SPC Nancy Detwiler — Tue, 13 Oct 2020 05:04:00 -0400

As a 3rd shift (civilian) nurse, I work 10 hour shifts and I’m lucky to get a solid 4 hours of sleep in between household chores, grocery shopping, paying bills and keeping appointments during daytime hours. Sleep is a luxury and in time you’ll figure out what your priorities are. I also hold down a part time job working as an armed security officer on the weekends, giving me only one day off during the week. I’d gladly trade you places!

Response by TSgt Chuck Mankin made Oct 13 at 2020 7:38 AM

TSgt Chuck Mankin — Tue, 13 Oct 2020 07:38:09 -0400

This seems to be a recurring thread. It seems to me like the military needs to stop allowing pansies to join!

Response by SGT Quanda Brown made Oct 13 at 2020 8:45 PM

SGT Quanda Brown — Tue, 13 Oct 2020 20:45:50 -0400

4 to 5hours of sleep is not bad. You can function on that. If u were on the battlefield or a serious
Exercise you barley sleep. Being in the military can be tough but push through. Imagine being at NTC and having to pull guard......no rest for the weary.

Response by CPT Andrew Wright made Oct 13 at 2020 9:43 PM

CPT Andrew Wright — Tue, 13 Oct 2020 21:43:47 -0400

Why not ask the 1SG to consider moving the afternoon PT formation up one hour to 1500. Your crew can attend then and go to work and the daytime shift might get to go home an hour earlier. Win, Win. Best of luck!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2020 9:50 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Oct 2020 21:50:16 -0400

Go to PT in the morning. Then surface your issue to your immediate supervisor in the chain of command. That places you in the drivers' seat. Remember in a combat environment you often get only 2 or 3 hours if you are lucky.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2020 11:18 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Oct 2020 23:18:34 -0400

4-5 hours? Thats a good night sleep for me when I was in

Response by SPC Aj Yokley made Oct 15 at 2020 2:02 PM

SPC Aj Yokley — Thu, 15 Oct 2020 14:02:44 -0400

As an MP, we had shift work as well. PT was done either before shift or right after the shift was over. Problem solved!

Response by SFC Erin Barnett made Oct 21 at 2020 4:17 PM

SFC Erin Barnett — Wed, 21 Oct 2020 16:17:26 -0400

You have plenty of time. Rather than bucking PT, have someone look at the work schedule. 16:30 to midnight is an odd one anyway.

Response by SP6 Greg Jetter made Nov 6 at 2020 2:10 PM

SP6 Greg Jetter — Fri, 06 Nov 2020 14:10:42 -0500

get up off your ass and go to PT , I can remember going on operations where I didn't sleep for three days straight , it's part of the job , the mission does not stop because you only got 4 hours sleep , if you can't do it then get out , your a risk to your fellow soldiers lives.

Response by SPC Ryan Shaul made Nov 7 at 2020 1:41 AM

SPC Ryan Shaul — Sat, 07 Nov 2020 01:41:25 -0500

The Army is only required to give you 4 hours of sleep, and that doesn't even have to be 4 consecutive hours. You may not want to sound like you're whining...but you're whining.

Response by CMSgt John Owens made Nov 9 at 2020 3:18 PM

CMSgt John Owens — Mon, 09 Nov 2020 15:18:16 -0500

I'm a retired Air Force member, so don't hate..I see you have at least 2 options. One is stay awake till PT, then come in from PT and go to sleep. 2. take a nap from time you get home after shift, then go to PT, after PT go to sleep till you have to get up for work.. I was in several RPA squadrons, which were 24/7 units, so I know the pain in the ass it can be doing shift work. I really don't understand the 8 hr shifts.. Even the AF had 12 hr shift, for ER, and Hospital side.. Now we did have some day walkers working only 8 hr shifts, they worked Mon- Friday.. I will just about bet you are working 5 days a week on your 8 hr shift, I would much rather work 12 hr shifts and work less days. Are you switching shifts or Hard scheduled shifts, ie do you work 6 weeks of days, 6 weeks second shift and then 6 weeks of nights? Is everyone on all shifts passing PT? Got to look at the other side of the coin, probably having issues, with your shift, or having issues with all the shifts.. I hate the mentality of punish everyone for one or two people making mistakes, but that also happens.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2020 7:30 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Nov 2020 07:30:34 -0500

Suck if up

Response by CPT Barry Naum made Nov 20 at 2020 1:39 PM

CPT Barry Naum — Fri, 20 Nov 2020 13:39:43 -0500

You know how you solve this problem? You go to PT.

"This one time in combat ..." I made my troops conduct an early morning operation in response to enemy activity after none of us had slept for 2 days. It sucked, but you suck it up. Only the living are able to do that.

Response by PO1 Michael Withrow made Nov 25 at 2020 8:44 PM

PO1 Michael Withrow — Wed, 25 Nov 2020 20:44:10 -0500

4 to 5 hours of sleep is normal sleep hours at sea... not sure why you think it's a problem.

Response by CMDCM Gene Treants made Dec 4 at 2020 12:11 AM

CMDCM Gene Treants — Fri, 04 Dec 2020 00:11:09 -0500

Ask that there be a 1500 PT since your shift begins at 1600. I would bet the ISGT and COmmander were not thinking of the Split Shifts when the times were announced. I used to work Split Shifts and got screwed a lot until I realized my Seniors were all Day Workers and did not realize that Shift workers were getting screwed a lot of the time. Make your case and see what happens. Be professional and don't WINE like this!
Sometime DAY Shifts Screw the Night shifts without thinking!

Response by SGT Adam Wolf made Dec 4 at 2020 7:44 AM

SGT Adam Wolf — Fri, 04 Dec 2020 07:44:47 -0500

I solved issues like this with my honorable discharge. Until I got that I just sucked it up.

Response by PO1 Don Rowan made Dec 4 at 2020 11:05 AM

PO1 Don Rowan — Fri, 04 Dec 2020 11:05:55 -0500

Do it.

Response by SGT James Tyo made Dec 4 at 2020 11:20 AM

SGT James Tyo — Fri, 04 Dec 2020 11:20:19 -0500

Oh Brother! Really? you get your PT uniform and get into formation.

Response by 1SG Virgil Tibbs made Dec 4 at 2020 11:54 AM

1SG Virgil Tibbs — Fri, 04 Dec 2020 11:54:37 -0500

Working at strange hours and also conducting PT is a normal part of military life. Achmed, Ivan, and Charlie won't excuse you from combat because you lost some sleep, and your physical conditioning is as important as every other soldiers'. Your section, presumably has an NCO. Top and the CO expect their troops to PT but I doubt either of them really care when that takes place as long as it's quality training and it actually happens. Perhaps your NCO can ask Top to allow your section to conduct section PT at 1330. That would leave everyone time to shower and get to work by 1600.

Response by SPC William Wilson made Dec 4 at 2020 2:22 PM

SPC William Wilson — Fri, 04 Dec 2020 14:22:09 -0500

Gotta man up, your not in the girls scouts.

Response by SGT Gary Tob made Dec 6 at 2020 5:14 AM

SGT Gary Tob — Sun, 06 Dec 2020 05:14:37 -0500

Oh my God! I can't believe this. Grow up if you're in the Army. I think you wouldn't make the grade in either the " Black Boot" Army, and especially the older "Brown Boot" Army. Be a soldier and suck it up!! Make sure you boots are spit shined, and gig line is straight for starters

Response by SGT Ivan Igitol made Dec 6 at 2020 6:39 PM

SGT Ivan Igitol — Sun, 06 Dec 2020 18:39:11 -0500

I guess your higher ups is trying to put a statement across about PT. Since they are new to your company, they might be trying to establish themselves. Don't get me wrong, too much sleep and no PT equals to laziness and lack stamina. You're lucky you have that much time to sleep. You'll be surprised how much criticism you'll get by asking this question especially you being in the Army. All I'll say is, "Embrace The Suck and Drive On"! I will not dog you on this even though I'm Old School Army where PT is life but you got me chuckling when you asked the question.
Talk to your section Sergeant to relay to higher ups if your section can do PT like noon time. Good luck.

Response by PO1 Charles Coffee made Dec 6 at 2020 6:48 PM

PO1 Charles Coffee — Sun, 06 Dec 2020 18:48:59 -0500

Just go to PT. It's easier than the future hell that will rain on you! Then you can go back to bed.

Response by Sgt Stephen Brown made Dec 7 at 2020 8:47 AM

Sgt Stephen Brown — Mon, 07 Dec 2020 08:47:18 -0500

OMG cupcake. You’re in the military. You better realize and understand what is expected of you. Hurry up and wait, do this do that right now etc. Y don’t work 9 to 5 and if you are deployed any schedule you may have had is out the window. You do the very best you can all the time even if you’re sleeping. It’s not about you and your comfort. It is about everyone you stand beside and come in contact with. If you are unable to do that you need to work at Micky D’s .

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2020 5:19 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Dec 2020 05:19:54 -0500

No walking on Ardennes...

Response by SSG Russell Busicchia made Dec 8 at 2020 2:56 PM

SSG Russell Busicchia — Tue, 08 Dec 2020 14:56:53 -0500

You are whining; you can sleep after PT. However, you can request through the chain-of-command that a third time be established, or if you could do the 1600 formation.

Response by SGM Thomas Adderley made Dec 14 at 2020 10:59 AM

SGM Thomas Adderley — Mon, 14 Dec 2020 10:59:21 -0500

Quit your whining and get your butt to the PT Formation. Talk with your Leader and ask him/her to take up the issue, but until it is resolved make the formations and do your duty. If you do not like it look for a transfer.

Response by CMSgt Vince Mee made Dec 20 at 2020 7:26 PM

CMSgt Vince Mee — Sun, 20 Dec 2020 19:26:02 -0500

ask for a periotical PT test to show you are keeping up your physical fitness and staying within weaght guidelines

Response by PO3 Nate Buck made Dec 28 at 2020 10:27 AM

PO3 Nate Buck — Mon, 28 Dec 2020 10:27:08 -0500

This has to be a troll post.

Response by PO1 Tom Follis made Dec 31 at 2020 2:57 PM

PO1 Tom Follis — Thu, 31 Dec 2020 14:57:36 -0500

I agree with you and your situation. However, you wouldn’t last a month in the Navy.

Response by GySgt Marc Dickerson made Dec 31 at 2020 9:35 PM

GySgt Marc Dickerson — Thu, 31 Dec 2020 21:35:34 -0500

Go to PT at 0530. Then go back to bed. Unit formations, PT, training, etc... always have to be worked out with shift workers. But sometimes we just have to suck it up. Use the chain of command procedures if you feel something is wrong. As my favorite E3 used to say... "Yes, this is why we get paid the big bucks."

Response by SGT Jamie Rosensteel made Jan 9 at 2021 2:37 PM

SGT Jamie Rosensteel — Sat, 09 Jan 2021 14:37:20 -0500

Your 1sg should have an open door policy. Ask your PTSG to go with you to talk with the 1Sg. Tell him your shift times. Then suggest a 13:30 PT session for the soldiers on the same Shift as you. This should let the 1Sg know that you would love to participate in a PT program but due to the Delicacy of the work you do you would like to be fresh and well rested while preforming your duties.

Response by Col Tri Trinh made Jan 10 at 2021 12:53 PM

Col Tri Trinh — Sun, 10 Jan 2021 12:53:31 -0500

Easy solution here. Get 2-3 people impacted and take up the matter with the 1SG. The Commander’s intent is to have fit troops. It’s not unreasonable for troops getting off morning shift to have the option of doing the 1600 PT session.

Response by PO3 Dale Olson made Jan 10 at 2021 1:11 PM

PO3 Dale Olson — Sun, 10 Jan 2021 13:11:47 -0500

Get off you ass and hit the grinder. Obviously you need your full 8 hours of before you can function. I sure hope i am not the 68W covering your unit in combat.

At age 40 I did 2 weeks Advanced Field Med School with Marine Recon.

Response by PO1 Mary Vermont made Jan 11 at 2021 10:19 AM

PO1 Mary Vermont — Mon, 11 Jan 2021 10:19:38 -0500

Stop crying the military isn’t you mom

Response by SGT Tom Recupero made Jan 23 at 2021 4:38 PM

SGT Tom Recupero — Sat, 23 Jan 2021 16:38:45 -0500

I’m pretty sure you can drink water

Response by SGT Daniel Merriman made Jan 25 at 2021 5:21 PM

SGT Daniel Merriman — Mon, 25 Jan 2021 17:21:20 -0500

Remf 0600 pt 4+ mile run m-f ..if you ain't airborne you ain't shit !!!!

Response by SPC Eric Greene made Jan 27 at 2021 1:33 PM

SPC Eric Greene — Wed, 27 Jan 2021 13:33:40 -0500

There's not any Army Regulations to support this and there shouldn't be. We trained for WAR. There's no schedule for war. You, more than likely, will get less sleep than that nightly. your body must be fit to endure hardship.

Response by PFC William McManus made Jan 28 at 2021 12:51 AM

PFC William McManus — Thu, 28 Jan 2021 00:51:02 -0500

Suck it up buttercup! You knew what you signed up for. Count your blessings that your not a MARINE!

Response by SGT M C made Jan 28 at 2021 3:19 PM

SGT M C — Thu, 28 Jan 2021 15:19:03 -0500

"Suck it up" Went to the 7th Army NCO academy many years ago and if you got 4 hrs of sleep a night for 28 days you were lucky! You're young you can handle it, and remember in combat you might not get any sleep!

Response by PFC Ray Hampton Jr. made Jan 29 at 2021 6:38 PM

PFC Ray Hampton Jr. — Fri, 29 Jan 2021 18:38:06 -0500

Suck it up buttercup, sleep fast, make pot go back to sleep!

Response by LCpl Kenneth Heath made Jan 31 at 2021 6:53 PM

LCpl Kenneth Heath — Sun, 31 Jan 2021 18:53:04 -0500

Off at 00:00, PT formation at 05:30... what's the problem? Used to sit up drinking with the Battery Gunny, toast with the last two beers at 05:00 and go call reveille for PT. You're giving 'pussies' a bad name with this one... step up, strap up and do your job!
(PT is part of mission readiness, I hated it but it was my job too)

Response by LCpl Sidney Green made Jan 31 at 2021 11:30 PM

LCpl Sidney Green — Sun, 31 Jan 2021 23:30:35 -0500

You show up and do your best. If anyone comments you let them know you're doing the best you can on the amount of sleep you're getting. They can't fault you for that. However, you can certainly get in a world of trouble if you don't show up.

Response by SSgt Russell Stevens made Feb 13 at 2021 11:34 AM

SSgt Russell Stevens — Sat, 13 Feb 2021 11:34:16 -0500

How close are you to ETS? I would use that as leverage.

Response by SFC James Corona made Feb 17 at 2021 12:56 PM

SFC James Corona — Wed, 17 Feb 2021 12:56:46 -0500

I think Command policies mostly are legitimate to prepare soldiers for War. "Hazing" however, is different where your squad or platoon is just messing with your mind with a traditional practice for fun sake.
Servicemembers prepare for WAR and must adhere to Command policies that mirror War preparation.
The Armed Forces isn't the YMCA or Boy Scouts.

Response by SGT Daniel Merriman made Feb 19 at 2021 2:53 PM

SGT Daniel Merriman — Fri, 19 Feb 2021 14:53:57 -0500

Suck it up buttercup! Run 4/32 every morning with no sleep, wussy

Response by SP5 Jay Molyneaux made Feb 21 at 2021 9:54 AM

SP5 Jay Molyneaux — Sun, 21 Feb 2021 09:54:26 -0500

I will only say this. I was in a Special Forces Training unit and you got what sleep you could, when you could anywhere you could. Then I deployed to Viet Nam with 101st Airborne divisions in a recon unit. We probably had 3-5 hours in a 24 hour day for days on end. The best thing you can do is to tough it out and then get out. I would not say a word about this.

Response by SFC Mark Klaers made Mar 1 at 2021 1:11 PM

SFC Mark Klaers — Mon, 01 Mar 2021 13:11:42 -0500

Are your shifts not on a rotation? Meaning that for a week or two you're 1600 - 0000, then 0000 - 0800 followed by 0800-1600? If not, someone isn't running their unit properly. One thing is for sure, though...the Harmony Church Soldier is gone forever. Sad, really sad.

Response by SFC Marty Dulfon made Mar 1 at 2021 6:33 PM

SFC Marty Dulfon — Mon, 01 Mar 2021 18:33:10 -0500

We don't want pussy troops like you suck it baby- there's very little sleep in combat buttercup.

Response by Sgt Robert Gardner made Mar 5 at 2021 12:17 PM

Sgt Robert Gardner — Fri, 05 Mar 2021 12:17:33 -0500

Sleep whenever you can eat whenever you can. If you choose to stay out all night and expect a break when it's time for PT you're delusional, it won't happen. Four or five hours of sleep should be more than enough to do what needs to be done, stop the sniveling.

Response by CPO Alexander Rey made Mar 6 at 2021 9:03 AM

CPO Alexander Rey — Sat, 06 Mar 2021 09:03:53 -0500

Retired Navy Chief here. I don’t want to sound like some of the old-timers here and tell you to suck it up and that I had to work 25 hours a day, eight days a week for 32 days a month my whole 20 years in the Navy. I will tell you however, when I was in submarines sometimes we were loading nuclear ballistic missiles after 30 hours of working straight getting everything ready. And we had to stand guard nuclear weapons security guard duty topside with shotguns sometimes under 90F, 100% humidity, or freezing rain without head or chow breaks for hours because we didn’t have enough people to relieve us. Nuclear. Weapons. But nobody required us to do PT after working 14-18 hour days for 3 weeks straight, thank God. But I digress. Maybe your unit CO can ask for independent PT for unit members on a trust basis. I understand that PT is the religious ceremony equivalent for the Army and that it brings about unit cohesion and preparedness. But the rigid and close-minded mentality without allowing any exceptions for essential personnel that are fighting a different war -as in your case- is something that I never understood from the Army. Hopefully it will not take a major medical mishap or accident, I got for a bit what are you doing guys getting infected and dying from CovidFor your leader ship to realize The need for flexibility. Good luck!

Response by CDR Tom Davy made Mar 7 at 2021 10:07 AM

CDR Tom Davy — Sun, 07 Mar 2021 10:07:51 -0500

Unit PT for hospital personnel was always a problem. A chunk of your staff work during the night and just can't PT @ 0530 as they are still on duty. I was ordered to set up a Departmental PT and ended up have two PT shifts, two days a week for the 0600 and 1600 PTs. I received permission to cancel as we had too much work to do, work which affects patient care trumps PT.

Response by SN Jeffrey White made Mar 7 at 2021 11:00 AM

SN Jeffrey White — Sun, 07 Mar 2021 11:00:41 -0500

Welcome to being a responsible adult. You don't "sound like" you are whining, you "are whining". I remember months at sea, between watch standing , daily work, and special details like General Quarters Drill, or Underway Replenishment, that we went on much less sleep than that.

Time to grow up and act like an adult. And if you think this is bad, don't ever have children.

Response by 1SG Daniel Frawley made Mar 7 at 2021 1:21 PM

1SG Daniel Frawley — Sun, 07 Mar 2021 13:21:17 -0500

And? What is your point?

Response by SGT Lorenzo Nieto made Mar 8 at 2021 6:46 AM

SGT Lorenzo Nieto — Mon, 08 Mar 2021 06:46:41 -0500

When I was in Vietnam there were days I went with out sleep when I was able to get some sleep I slept in mud, in the rain, where ever I could if you have to go into battle you will not be asked how much sleep do you need to fight look at it this way you’re being trained to adapt.

Response by SGT Lori Adams made Mar 14 at 2021 5:21 PM

SGT Lori Adams — Sun, 14 Mar 2021 17:21:04 -0400

There are 16 hours between your shifts and you can only find time for 4-5 hours of sleep? What will you do if you’re assigned to a combat hospital on deployment? You may get less than that.
What I see is less of a PT problem and more of a you not wanting to adjust your sleep schedule problem. You want your free time to be during the daylight hours where you can socialize and have fun instead of having free time from 0001-0500. The problem is that the military does not conform to your schedule, you find a way to work around the military’s schedule. If you cannot figure this out, you do not deserve to be promote past your current rank.
There will be many times in your military career where sleep is a rare thing - why do you think soldiers can fall asleep anywhere? (even in the back of a deuce and a half) Your job is to learn to adapt and overcome.

Also, best way to learn things is to look them up. Instead of asking about Army Regulations - look them up yourself. You will be amazed at how much information you retain.

Response by CPL Jay Strickland made Mar 14 at 2021 9:18 PM

CPL Jay Strickland — Sun, 14 Mar 2021 21:18:09 -0400

So Davis, I have worked shift so I am not unsympathetic as getting to bed before the sun rises really does help you sleep. I did get it resolved favorably. But before you do you need to get rid of this barracks lawyer mindset there is no regulations that will magically get you out of this. I promise that your Chain of command will tell you you have plenty of time to sleep after PT at 0700.

Now how to resolve this in your favor. I see you have a (P) after your name act like it. You need to go to your first line NCO and propose a solution. I would recommend you conduct PT at 1400 hours outside of the company area were 1SG can see you. 1SGs love seeing their guys do PT. And by you I mean you take charge and you take responsibility. Offer to conduct attendance and write a schedule for PT. This is good training for a future NCO and maybe a good point on an NCOER. You will be held to account for your shift missing PT and/or falling PT scores if this happens.

Response by COL Ralph Bryan Hanes made Mar 24 at 2021 10:24 PM

COL Ralph Bryan Hanes — Wed, 24 Mar 2021 22:24:02 -0400

MAJ Wilson and CW3 Storm have it right. Even though I believe you are not being treated with appropriate consideration by your COC, I would offer you some friendly advise: You must choose your battles. It is not wise to engage in every battle that you can win, only the ones that are worth it. SFC Davila was correct in his assertion that on deployments and other high OPTEMPO assignments it is not unusual to have to live on regular 4-5 hours sleep. It is a part of being in the Army. I do not agree with inflicting unnecessary pain/inconsideration on anyone of any rank. I am not your commander. Never forget that no NCO likes to have a soldier go over his/her head, especially on a subject that is near and dear to the 1SG's heart. They can make life more difficult for you in ways that will stand up to scrutiny. If you are ready to follow through and feel it is worth it, dive in... especially if there are several of you who share the schedule and are willing to be a part of the solution. CAVEAT: If you are not willing and committed to take the heat and suspect that you might back off at the first sign of significant "resistance" as you work up the chain, DON'T EVEN START the process. Back to Obligations: Do you have to follow orders? Certainly. Do you get to choose which (lawful) orders you you obey? No. Do you have recourse? In this case, likely yes. You will need to go up the NCO chain through your PSG until you get to the 1SG. Chances are that your PSG will talk to the 1SG and they will work it out to everyone's benefit. Why? You will ask your PSG for written counseling for that order. Ask him/her that since the 1SG is the one behind the PT push, does s/he think that the CSM might be able to help. Let him/her know that you are prepared to go on to the 1SG and request to see the CSM and don't want to go empty handed. If the first CSM in the chain does not help, ask for the next one up. No one from the Squad leader, PSG, 1SG nor the new CO will be happy about that prospective visit. It is possible that the CO will hear about it and change the order also. Back to a earlier point: Don't start something you are not willing to finish...in the long term if you quit before it is resolved, you will regret potentially picking a fight to which your are not totally committed....and as before, you may win a battle and lose a war. Good Luck! The army seldom puts stupid people in medical MOSs. Think through what you should do and ask an NCO in your chain for advice...then do what you feel you are best served to do.

Response by CPO John Moran made Mar 27 at 2021 10:32 AM

CPO John Moran — Sat, 27 Mar 2021 10:32:38 -0400

As a Retired Hospital Corpsman (green), I really don’t feel for you. I won’t give you old sea stories but you volunteered for a seven day work week. Out of my 21 years in the Navy, I spent 16 of those years with the Marines and did what the Marines wanted plus my Medical Duties.

Response by Sgt Dan Baughman made Apr 9 at 2021 11:49 AM

Sgt Dan Baughman — Fri, 09 Apr 2021 11:49:09 -0400

You mean to tell me you get that much sleep and are complaining?

Response by CPT Wayne Price made Apr 11 at 2021 10:22 PM

CPT Wayne Price — Sun, 11 Apr 2021 22:22:53 -0400

Do not question, just do it!!! Wayne R Price

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Apr 22 at 2021 12:10 PM

SSG Robert Perrotto — Thu, 22 Apr 2021 12:10:10 -0400

4-5 hours of sleep is more then enough, I can bet my house that you have been out drinking with your buddies until closing, and then PT'ed at 0600. Suck it up buttercup, you get to go back home after PT and sleep some more.

Response by SP6 Bruce Kellar made Apr 23 at 2021 11:14 AM

SP6 Bruce Kellar — Fri, 23 Apr 2021 11:14:00 -0400

Only 5 showed up for PT? Your joking. Doesn't sound like any American military but rather a Russian outfit hanging out in the park with a bottle of vodka. Not the military that won the wars but certainly one that can never win a war on the ground

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2021 5:31 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 29 Apr 2021 17:31:04 -0400

Used to walk out of the club in Hawaii at 4am, taxi to the barracks, switch to PTs, and go max an APFT at 0530. 4-5 hours a sleep was a blessing! And that was stateside. Wait until you're deployed and you're working 14-18 hour days 7 days a week and having extra duties as a SGT since you've got that (P) next to your rank. It will only get tougher.

Response by PV2 Ross Bryan made May 10 at 2021 8:29 AM

PV2 Ross Bryan — Mon, 10 May 2021 08:29:54 -0400

STRONGLY REMIND THE INDIVIDUAL AT FAULT HOW HE WOULD LIKE HAVING A CONSISTENTLY SLEEP DEPRIVED MEDICAL TECHNICIAN WORK ON HIS CARE IF HE HAD AN HEART ATTACK OR AUTO ACCIDENT AT ODD HOURS!
ALSO THERE IS NO GUARANTEE A MEDICAL PERSON GOES OFF DUTY AT END OF SHIFT WHEN THERE IS SOME SORT OF AN EMERGENCY TREATMENTS BEING DONE!!
BEING A MEDICAL TECH IS ALREADY AN
"COMBAT JOB" , AND SOONER OR LATER,PROPER REST IS REQUIRED LIKE IT OR NOT!!

Response by CW4 John Snyder made May 11 at 2021 9:41 AM

CW4 John Snyder — Tue, 11 May 2021 09:41:25 -0400

I'd like to know why only 5 people out of an entire company showed up? Y'all can't be working the 0000-0800 shift. Plus there have been many a nights of drinking til 0000-0200, hitting the rack and then being up at 0500 for morning PT. Morning formation was mandatory unless you were DEROSing, ETSing, PCSing or Sick Call

Response by 1SG Clifford Barnes made May 12 at 2021 2:46 PM

1SG Clifford Barnes — Wed, 12 May 2021 14:46:51 -0400

Your in the Army and you have to make the PT formation and do your part. You don’t always get 8 hours of sleep. Get up at five be there and then go back and get your rest and be prepared to do your job

Response by 1SG Clifford Barnes made May 12 at 2021 2:50 PM

1SG Clifford Barnes — Wed, 12 May 2021 14:50:16 -0400

He has plenty of time to get his rest and be prepared to get his job done Hooah

Response by PO3 Timothy Thomas made May 13 at 2021 6:13 AM

PO3 Timothy Thomas — Thu, 13 May 2021 06:13:32 -0400

I was a Radio and Satcom Electronics Technician. (ET), in the Navy. My Chief told me that I am guaranteed only 1 hour of sleep. And I couldn't get to bed until all my equipment was UP.

Many times I worked 2 or 3 days without sleep. On a 3 month North Atlantic Cruise, I was up all day, all night and all day the next, 36 hours, slept for 12 and did it again.
Being singled out isn't always a curse. I took it in stride as a Lawful Order. And did Electronics for 35 years.

Response by Lt Col Leslie Bryant made May 15 at 2021 7:13 PM

Lt Col Leslie Bryant — Sat, 15 May 2021 19:13:13 -0400

You should definitely talk to your 1st Sgt and Commander. Too little sleep very much affects decision making. You could literally kill someone from being tired and simply not able to think. It is so wrong that people who work evening and night shifts are being required to do PT on very little to no sleep. There should be an alternative for those who are evening and night shift workers. If the 1st Sgt or Commander won’t work with you go to the Chief of Nursing then to the Hospital Commander then to the Inspector General. It may not make you popular with superior officers but the key is to stress you don’t want to kill or endanger patients and too little sleep does that. Also ask if the hospital shouldn’t look at deaths in the hospital and what shifts people were working and then go to the staff on duty with the patient when they died and find out how much sleep each member got!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2021 12:16 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 May 2021 12:16:37 -0400

Why does you always need to do PT with the company? Telling me sections can’t organize PT on their own? Or does the command not trust their soldiers to be grown adults. Micromanagement commands and helicopter parent leaders are not effective

Response by LCpl Tom Schnell made May 21 at 2021 11:46 PM

LCpl Tom Schnell — Fri, 21 May 2021 23:46:20 -0400

Suck it up buttercup

Response by SGT Arthur Burke made May 22 at 2021 10:23 AM

SGT Arthur Burke — Sat, 22 May 2021 10:23:31 -0400

OMG, Really?????? You are in the ARMED FORCES, snowflake!!! Get your lazy, tires ass out of bed and do your PT like a - dare I say it - GROWNUP!!! If you are so sorry that you think you have to be catered to because you “only” got 4-5 hours of sleep, you need to get the f**k out!! The Armed Forces is NOT - I repeat NOT - a f—king country club. You wrote a check, payable to the audited States for any amount up to and including your life. If you can handle the heat get the hell out of the kitchen. Only REAL grownups need to be serving as soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines. We don’t want snowflakes pretending to be soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines, only to have to go on sick call because they got their feeling hurt. When the SHTF I personally expect REAL soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines to handle the situation. I do not want to hear a whiney-assed snowflake crying because someone is sending bullets in their direction. The enemy will eat you for breakfast, lunch, AND dinner! Grow a pair or get out.

Response by SGT Juan Robledo made May 22 at 2021 11:31 PM

SGT Juan Robledo — Sat, 22 May 2021 23:31:15 -0400

You can say NO thank you, I'm tired, pounce, whinn, scream your lungs out, start throwing things around, maybe then your Command will give in, you can only try

Response by CW3 John Himes made May 23 at 2021 6:59 AM

CW3 John Himes — Sun, 23 May 2021 06:59:01 -0400

You suck it up and show up OR work with your 1SG and section chief to have PT conducted by section chiefs for shift workers. A good 1SG will check on the sections to insure that the chiefs are conducting a good program.

Response by COL Jeff Del Fuoco made May 23 at 2021 7:44 AM

COL Jeff Del Fuoco — Sun, 23 May 2021 07:44:47 -0400

Here's a way to deal with it: First, don't "whine" or complain to anybody about it, just suck it up and do what you're told. You get off work at midnight, right? So get to bed and sleep as long as possible, get up at 0500 and go to PT. When you're done, catch a couple of hours of sleep later in the morning and you should be fine. Unfortunately, some of us have duties that don't necessarily fit "nicely" within the confines of a "perfect" schedule. You'll be fine, and you'll set an example that good leaders will see, admire and acknowledge.

Response by SPC Daniel Dresen made May 23 at 2021 5:02 PM

SPC Daniel Dresen — Sun, 23 May 2021 17:02:29 -0400

By regulation, you are required a minimum rest time of 4 hours... seems like you got that. After PT... go back to sleep if your duty shift is 1600-0000. It's just one formation. My wife isn't even in the army and works graveyard as a caregiver, then comes home to work at our kids school. She sleeps from noon to 8pm. You need better time management because it's just one formation.

Response by SPC C. Michael Morrison made May 23 at 2021 6:22 PM

SPC C. Michael Morrison — Sun, 23 May 2021 18:22:50 -0400

First, as a Specialist, you are an E4. Suck it up if you want to make E5. I was 11B/68W so I know what you re talking about. Get 4 to 5 hours sleep, go to morning PT, go back to your room, shower and sleep some more. Good God I'm glad I didn't have Medics like you to worry about during Desert Storm when we sometimes didn't sleep for 24+ hours due to being in the field and taking care of the wounded.

Response by SGT Bob Knox made May 23 at 2021 7:30 PM

SGT Bob Knox — Sun, 23 May 2021 19:30:03 -0400

Suck it up and go

Response by SGM Robert Murray made May 23 at 2021 8:00 PM

SGM Robert Murray — Sun, 23 May 2021 20:00:54 -0400

You're whining. Period. Do you realize there's a pandemic ongoing? Do you realize emergency medical crews and hospital staffs are working EXTREMELY long and hard to fight a pandemic that affects American lives, and you're concerned you didn't get enough sleep?

Another silly question. AFTER PT, what are you doing. . .going BACK TO BED? Think about it. Really. . .reflect on it.

Help me too. You can't, for yourself, research an Army reg that says you're entitled to eight hours of sleep before your shift? Wow. .

Response by COL Thomas McGrath made May 23 at 2021 11:22 PM

COL Thomas McGrath — Sun, 23 May 2021 23:22:02 -0400

The best way to handle this is two-fold: first and best method is to put on your PT uniform and report to the formation 5 minutes early exercise!! Secondly reach way down and grab yourself by the balls pull them up and and toughen up!

Response by SFC Kenneth Hunnell made May 24 at 2021 1:50 AM

SFC Kenneth Hunnell — Mon, 24 May 2021 01:50:50 -0400

Do your PT THEN CLEAN UP and go to bed. Problem solved.

Response by PO3 Bill Villalpando made May 24 at 2021 7:00 AM

PO3 Bill Villalpando — Mon, 24 May 2021 07:00:03 -0400

Cheese, meet whine...

Response by Sgt David Scott made May 24 at 2021 2:13 PM

Sgt David Scott — Mon, 24 May 2021 14:13:02 -0400

4-5 hours of sleep, we could have been so lucky. It would be nice for everyone to get 8 or more hours of sleep before requiring them to wake up, drink some coffee and then PT. My thought is how in the h3ll do we get the enemy to do the same and on the same schedule? The second point: A CHOICE on when to show up!!!, Well as a "Jr Enlisted" personnell, wait; you're in the Army, well I don't know what their protocal is, but I can't imagine they promised you a rose garden. Perpare for war, hoping it never comes is better then the other way around.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2021 8:04 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 May 2021 20:04:07 -0400

Best to formulate a respectful, reasonable question/solution and go to your 1st supervisor.
My guess is this won't last too long.
Maybe hold out a few days.
As soon as the 1st accident, family incident etc. The CoC will step in with something sensible. Like PT for your shift is 1400 to 1500, shift starts at 1600.
All the leaders saying though it out, we partied and ran PT. Well, when you as a leader looking at another leader, like yea, now you have to face how and why that soldier died and killed his whole car of kids in the way to daycare to make PT on 4 hrs sleep. All because of the ego maniac, that created and held a do or die environment get reprimanded and force retired for being sheer stupid, you'll look at him like I did, with zero sympathy. Put your ego aside and use your brain. Goal fitness program and discipline. Not risk lives in garrison.

Response by SGT Wayne Grindstaff made May 24 at 2021 10:42 PM

SGT Wayne Grindstaff — Mon, 24 May 2021 22:42:03 -0400

Yes you are whining, this is not a 9-5 job. I guess those 4-5 hours were in a bed as well, not laying in mud during the rainy season. I was told the Army did a study and a soldier only needed 2 hours a day of sleep and during my 1 year tour in Vietnam as an 11Bravo there was day's I didn't get that. Remember taking orders and following orders will help you in life after the Military as well.

Response by SGT Mark Kotajarvi made May 24 at 2021 10:45 PM

SGT Mark Kotajarvi — Mon, 24 May 2021 22:45:35 -0400

Maybe when you need time to sleep and cannot function from lack of sleep you can tell the enemy to wait a few hours so that you may catch up on sleep time. Oh, wait your not going to get sleep sometimes to fix "lack of sleep." Sometime it just happens that way. Get over it and drive on with yourself.

Response by SP5 James Elmore made May 25 at 2021 2:02 AM

SP5 James Elmore — Tue, 25 May 2021 02:02:38 -0400

I sympathize. We hated the 12-hour shifts with zero breaks for a year other than R &R. Nurses typically work a 12-hour shift for 3 straight days in civilian life. Nap when you can. You are not a civilian & it should not be a big deal just a small pressure on you. See if you can handle it. OTOH, perhaps your 1sg isn't aware of the shift work times; suggest that YOU would like to lead a PT session at a different time. Your reasoning is to give more opportunities for the troops to participate should they miss PT for any reason.

Response by SGT Scott Henderson made May 25 at 2021 1:32 PM

SGT Scott Henderson — Tue, 25 May 2021 13:32:08 -0400

Either get your PSG on your side so they can act as a buffer or catch a 3hr power nap, do pt, shower, and go back to bed if allowed. Most importantly; stop being a bitch

Response by AN G R made May 25 at 2021 2:47 PM

AN G R — Tue, 25 May 2021 14:47:52 -0400

Honestly you just have to accept that the military doesn't care about you nor your needs / wants. You enlisted to server their needs. Like getting up at 4 AM and mustering and rushing to your post, to stand there and wait for hours before anything gets done. Its military life my dude, Do your time and move on.

Response by SGT Dustin Palumbo made May 25 at 2021 6:42 PM

SGT Dustin Palumbo — Tue, 25 May 2021 18:42:44 -0400

It's the military lifestyle. We are not supposed to be soft. Sometimes you will go days without sleep, and still C/M.

Response by CPL Stephanie Cox made May 26 at 2021 9:15 AM

CPL Stephanie Cox — Wed, 26 May 2021 09:15:37 -0400

What you do is stop trying to weasel your way out of it and get out there so you can PT. Stop being a wuss. Geez.

Response by MAJ Rj M made May 26 at 2021 4:08 PM

MAJ Rj M — Wed, 26 May 2021 16:08:23 -0400

I responded earlier, but to be honest, what would you do if you were in a field environment or real combat and got 2-3 hours of sleep a night and had to be up almost as soon as you went to sleep

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2021 5:45 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 May 2021 17:45:32 -0400

As a junior enlisted I’m going on my gut feeling here and guess your 23 - 29 yrs old +/- IDK these days.??! You should be quite fit and understand that this —- This Military Training thing we do is what prevails when you didn’t think you could but helping you to conquer your mind by complaining about it in the first place makes you selfish because the person to your left or right is hoping that you are just as trained and if not even better trained, depending on your rank or position, because when you are in the position one day should you ever earn the honor of moving into the non commissioned officers corps. Because it is then young troop, and only then that this wisdom i share with you will you understand the true meaning of belonging, band of brothers/sisters, a Corpse of leaders that train, develop, inspire, and execute orders; they are the backbone of every Armed Forces in the United States of America. The greatest country and nation that there Is and embraces freedom, justice, and the pursuit of happiness. That same privilege is being instilled into you young troop that it will too one day inspire you to push yourself to be more, give more, serve more, grow more, instead of worrying about the lack of sleep you get but instead to how many hours you do get to sleep, now go make the most out of those 4 hrs. Make them quality hours and don’t waste a minute worrying about all the troubles of the world because out there somewhere is another young troop that’s standing guard while rest hoping that he/she too could get just a few hrs of sleep but they can’t yet because the enemy is all around trying to find ways to disrupt or destroy our All (inclusive) American way of life! So pray you will someday be that backbone, but for now, please consider that your still in training. Sweet Dreams

Response by MCPO Jeffery Stoner made May 26 at 2021 6:34 PM

MCPO Jeffery Stoner — Wed, 26 May 2021 18:34:32 -0400

listen, You signed a contract. as unbalanced as it may seem you are theirs. You need to Dig deep to survive. Try working on the flight deck for 12 hrs a day 7 days a week for 6 months. perhaps something very important to your service to the nation will be passed down. Don't miss it! I never did.

Response by SGT Roland Sharpe made May 26 at 2021 7:18 PM

SGT Roland Sharpe — Wed, 26 May 2021 19:18:53 -0400

Volunteer or ask if you can start a group afternoon pt session at 1200 or something like that.

Response by SGT Loren Baker made May 26 at 2021 8:13 PM

SGT Loren Baker — Wed, 26 May 2021 20:13:11 -0400

Show up when you are told to. You joined the military voluntarily. You had a choice before you signed the contract. If you don't like it, then don't re-enlist.

Response by SGT Ricky Young made May 26 at 2021 9:23 PM

SGT Ricky Young — Wed, 26 May 2021 21:23:22 -0400

One question do you not like pt? 1SG is correct telling you you need to do PT. I agree that if you can't handle PT on 4 hours sleep. You have diffidently chose the wrong carrer.

Response by CPL Richard Hughes made May 27 at 2021 12:18 AM

CPL Richard Hughes — Thu, 27 May 2021 00:18:33 -0400

Junior enlisted under a new command structure... ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!! Get your squared away self to one or the other of those PT formations. The only problem you seem to have. Is the motivation to overcome. Your really non relevant self assigned problem.

Response by SGT Harry C Miller Jr made May 27 at 2021 8:46 AM

SGT Harry C Miller Jr — Thu, 27 May 2021 08:46:01 -0400

Simple, you get your as- up and go to P.T. !! And, you are whining !!

Response by CPT Troy Albuck made May 27 at 2021 11:34 AM

CPT Troy Albuck — Thu, 27 May 2021 11:34:22 -0400

I see answers here that range from "suck it up" to "only to appease the 1SG" but perhaps there is another approach. Use the 5th Principle of Patrolling-- Common Sense. Familiarize yourself with the Army Performance Triad and the relevant regulations of crew rest. Those guidelines and regulations exist for purpose. You will find in there very good reasons for a balanced approach to conditioning for combat and troops to task methodology for round the clock operations, even in a garrison environment. I have been at this 40 years or so and spent many, many years in combat in several different wars, this is a garrison scheduling issue that should be the bread and butter of NCO business. Be STRAC and professional, but also strive for balance. Rangers Lead the Way!

Response by CPL Christopher Thomas made May 27 at 2021 5:54 PM

CPL Christopher Thomas — Thu, 27 May 2021 17:54:46 -0400

When did privates have a say so. If Top is saying PT is at 0430, then it's 0430. If you don't the Fuq up, you get smoked. Do you want a time out when you are forced to go on a 2-mile forced march? LMAO

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2021 7:43 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 27 May 2021 19:43:44 -0400

I'm with SFC Michael Davila on this one. Adjust your activities so you can do your job. Your job is being a Soldier. God knows we need you. Being tough isn't always tough, but it will certainly be tough sometimes. A lot tougher than going out to do something that is healthy, and good, for your mind and body, like PT, with all your buddies suffering alongside you. Believe me, when you look back at your life, those are the times you're going to miss.

Entered 1975, Retired 2020.
E1 to E6, then O1 to O6.

Response by SP5 Charles McCoy Hassell made May 28 at 2021 9:05 AM

SP5 Charles McCoy Hassell — Fri, 28 May 2021 09:05:23 -0400

Let me help you with this problem. Be in formation at 0530, and do the PT. You signed up for this. You asked if there is any regulation, yes there is, It's called Your Company Commander, he gave a direct order. I hope this solves your problem. If not you need more help than I can give you, now stop whining do Pt or turn in your strips and go back to you moma.

Response by LTC Michael Baumann made May 28 at 2021 9:20 AM

LTC Michael Baumann — Fri, 28 May 2021 09:20:57 -0400

Seriously?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 28 at 2021 1:34 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 May 2021 13:34:07 -0400

Wow, there is a plethora of shit leadership in this thread, LoL. "My life in the military sucked ass so yours should also." That shitty attitude is why the military loses great Service Members every year. They don't want to put up with dumbass "this is what was done to me so this is what I'll do to you" type leadership. What ever happened to working smarter as a calling for being in a leadership position?

There are at least a dozen ways the leadership could solve the PT problem that don't involve giving a soldier on their off time because some dipshit NCO needs their ego stroked. And reading a lot of the replies...a lot of you are the toxic leadership that fucks up units.

Response by PO1 Timothy Strunk made May 28 at 2021 2:20 PM

PO1 Timothy Strunk — Fri, 28 May 2021 14:20:55 -0400

WOW, if you only realize how sad you sound. YES, you are whining.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2021 11:34 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 29 May 2021 11:34:47 -0400

Response by SPC Paul Hayward made May 29 at 2021 3:24 PM

SPC Paul Hayward — Sat, 29 May 2021 15:24:40 -0400

you can get 4 hours sleep, do your pt, then get the rest of your sleep after pt

Response by SSG Michael Struppa made May 30 at 2021 10:37 AM

SSG Michael Struppa — Sun, 30 May 2021 10:37:52 -0400

Take naps when you can, reduce caffeine intake close to end of shift. Stay away from computer screens, tablets, video games etc close to end of your shift. When you are in bed, your bed if for sleeping; not checking phone, not watching tv. Go to bed after PT. If you have dreams of firefighting or nursing after your career, get used to sleep deprivation. 24 hour shifts with 2 hours sleep if it's a busy shift. Midnight to 515 is more than enough time to get some rest, go to pt and the sleep afterwards. Late shifts suck, but it's doable.

Response by SFC Roland Blair made May 30 at 2021 2:23 PM

SFC Roland Blair — Sun, 30 May 2021 14:23:38 -0400

You are a United States Military person deal with it. when you are in combat you wont get sleep

Response by MSgt Allen Chandler made May 30 at 2021 2:32 PM

MSgt Allen Chandler — Sun, 30 May 2021 14:32:41 -0400

I don’t see the problem you go to PT can you do the damn best you can. If you don’t pass I don’t do well enough to satisfy the instructor then you have a discussion about why you did so poorly.
Commanders also have to make a choice between two different things how important is it for you to get a good nights rest and how important is it to get this PT thing out-of-the-way. I’m not claiming that all commanders make the right decision I’m just saying that as an enlisted man your job is to be the order unless there’s a serious legal or more reason not to.

Response by MSG Dale Fairbanks made May 30 at 2021 6:23 PM

MSG Dale Fairbanks — Sun, 30 May 2021 18:23:40 -0400

Do the people in the morning and then go back to bed, or talk to your shift supervisor about adjusting your schedule.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2021 11:06 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 May 2021 23:06:43 -0400

You go to PT.

Response by MSgt Gary Petersen made May 31 at 2021 2:43 AM

MSgt Gary Petersen — Mon, 31 May 2021 02:43:42 -0400

You are whining. Get up, or, shower and go back to bed. Nothing compared to the old days.

Response by PO1 Don Uhrig made May 31 at 2021 9:57 AM

PO1 Don Uhrig — Mon, 31 May 2021 09:57:03 -0400

I agree with other about time management on the part of the member posing the question. I would also add: You have identified what you believe to be a "problem" because the PT sessions apparently aren't convenient for "your" life. Then you are expecting others (this forum being a group of others) to come up with a solution including possible regs. How about proposing your own solution, making a proposal, and getting credit for initiative instead of being a whiner. I have a proposal in mind, but giving it away would be robbing you of your own personal growth and journey toward potential leadership. When you reach those positions to be of influence to your subordinates you will have this experience to reflect on and perhaps solutions to delimas similar to this.

Response by CSM David Litteral made May 31 at 2021 1:31 PM

CSM David Litteral — Mon, 31 May 2021 13:31:53 -0400

SPC(P), Most of the responses you are going to read have been written by folks in traditional field units. Good answers but not relevant to MEDDAC. As a former MEDDAC CSM, I will tell you it's a different world. Let's look at this from the perspective that NCOs are entrusted with the health and welfare of their soldiers. They are also responsible to accomplish the mission. Your physical fitness is part of the mission. However, so is safety. Let's consider what would happen if we required a soldier to operate a vehicle with insufficient rest and they crash it. A 15-6 investigation would look for contributing factors which lack of rest would likely be one of them. So, a soldier who works an 8-hour shift, gets 5 hours of sleep and drives to PT has a car wreck on the way there or back to his or her quarters, the cause of the accident would be just as attributable to lack of rest. Who is responsible? The First Sergeant. In a MEDDAC, the First Sergeant must have a PT schedule for soldiers on every shift. The Command Sergeant Major should ensure the First Sergeant is doing his job, correctly.
You have several options. One is to request to see your NCOIC and then the First Sergeant. If the First Sergeant doesn't fix this, then the next step is the Command Sergeant Major. If those individuals don't understand the importance of safety, you can contact the installation IG and ask them if you are entitled to 8-hours of uninterrupted rest between shifts. You are a SPC(P) so this is a good developmental learning experience for you.

Response by SPC Marvin Darling made Jun 1 at 2021 12:42 PM

SPC Marvin Darling — Tue, 01 Jun 2021 12:42:40 -0400

Army regulations state that you be allowed only 6 hours downtime while in garrison and 4 hours downtime while on FTX or deployed. Those are down times, and if it takes you half an hour to fall asleep you get 3 and a half or 5 and a half hours sleep. This is why you learn to sleep when you can and fall asleep fast. You are a soldier, you chose this, you swore an oath and now you're going to whine about having to follow orders because you need your nappy time? Suck it up and grab a nap before and after or just plan your sleep time for after and stay the hell awake until PT is over. You have from zero hundred hours until formation, then I would imagine an hour and a half PT at most so you have from 0700 until 1600, that alone is 9 hours after PT.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2021 12:54 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Jun 2021 00:54:25 -0400

My suggestion is to talk to the 1SG off line explain your situation and work out an alternative

Response by CPL Allen Fellows made Jun 4 at 2021 5:07 PM

CPL Allen Fellows — Fri, 04 Jun 2021 17:07:04 -0400

Suck it up or kick rocks. Some of us went on 30 minutes asleep a day for months overseas. Maybe try to get less sleep on your own and adjust. Tower guard is always an option too.

Response by SGT Philip Gibbs made Jun 6 at 2021 9:34 AM

SGT Philip Gibbs — Sun, 06 Jun 2021 09:34:40 -0400

Under the regs have changed since I ETSed, leadership is required to give you the opportunity to sleep for 7 hours (but not consecutively). As said by all responses, it sucks. However, it is also a poor leadership decision which obviously is leading to poor morale. I would talk to my team leader, squad leader, and platoon sergeant. But don't just go and complain. I am sure they already know that the situation sucks and is bring down the company's morale. Instead, trying to come up with a viable solution to the problem that might appeal to your 1SG or at least your NCOs will be able to sell to him. Then, with solution(s) in hand, talk to your NCOs. Present to them the problem, the consequences of the problem (lower morale, likely lower numbers of Soldiers reupping, etc), and then the possible solutions that might be acceptable to your 1SG. Think seperate formations and PT for each shift with a weekly or monthly 0530 PT formation for the whole or majority of the company. You have to give something.

There's my two cents. Best of luck.

Response by CPT Daniel Cox made Jun 6 at 2021 4:16 PM

CPT Daniel Cox — Sun, 06 Jun 2021 16:16:46 -0400

Too many anecdotal stories of coming to PT still feeling the effects of drinking the night before (especially in Germany). That was nothing compared to being in Korea during that time. Not only the aftereffects of Mechcu but add in the smell of Kimchi coming out through the sweat pores and it is far worse.
As for the problem of the SPC (P), since she posted this two years ago, I would have liked to know as a soon-to-be NCO how she resolved the issue. It is not fair that her shift was treated differently. She did not say how many people were affected by the policy, there is strength in numbers.

Response by SSG Ralph Watkins made Jun 7 at 2021 9:10 AM

SSG Ralph Watkins — Mon, 07 Jun 2021 09:10:12 -0400

Suck it up. I was in a SIGINT unit where we did rotating shifts. Days, eves, mids, & then two days off. We would work all night & then have to do PT, do the APFT, train for the range, go to the range & qualify, & then do all kinds of things. And don't you dare fall asleep. If the PT field was getting the grass cut or the range had issues, we would have to mull around until things were ready. Sometimes in the afternoon. This occurred at several strategic assignments I was at. Our favorite time for the APFT in Hawaii was at midnight after an evening shift. It was laid back, cooler, & nobody else around. We just had to whisper loudly so we didn't disturb those who worked normal hours. Is it fair? No. But it does have it's benefits. Make sure to grab good sleep time when you can & when you do go to war, you won't be crying when the enemy attacks you after only 2 hours asleep. Been there & done that too.

Response by SGT Frank Jordan made Jun 13 at 2021 11:57 AM

SGT Frank Jordan — Sun, 13 Jun 2021 11:57:15 -0400

When I was stationed in Germany, I worked the night shift in a computer operations section for logistics. Our work schedule was 1630 until we got finished with our nightly work schedule. Some nights, we worked until 1930, some nights, we worked until 0600. Our section was exempt from morning PT formation and morning formation. Our OIC worked this all out with the company and battalion commanders. We were still responsible for getting our workouts in, because we were NOT exempt from PT tests, weapons qual, and the duty roster. I would recommend that this particular soldier needs to have a chat with his NCOIC and OIC as to have a more logical solution to his particular dilemma.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2021 8:07 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Jun 2021 20:07:49 -0400

As an ongoing thing, talk to the PSG and set up a separate PT session for your section. In the meantime, suck it up

Response by SGT Robert Andrews made Jun 17 at 2021 10:04 AM

SGT Robert Andrews — Thu, 17 Jun 2021 10:04:28 -0400

Your in the Military roll with it

Response by SFC Lyle Green made Jun 24 at 2021 12:14 PM

SFC Lyle Green — Thu, 24 Jun 2021 12:14:24 -0400

The UCMJ ( if that is even applicable today) states, allows 4 hrs. Of sleep in 24 hrs. I ain't nothing special but as the men with me on many occasions, for 3 or 4 days without sleep was not uncommon. A cat nap, one man at a time was all. If it was what you referring to as "sleep" was done...CHARLIE would see to it you woke up with your throat cut. Boy Scouts get to sleep to play, In war you stay awake to live. Sounds like a personal problem to me. Chaplains hours are 9 to 12. Or quit.

Response by SFC Dave Garcia made Jun 24 at 2021 1:18 PM

SFC Dave Garcia — Thu, 24 Jun 2021 13:18:23 -0400

I could be wrong in this situation, but it looks like a normal situation of a new command. What I saw repeatedly in different units while on active duty is that the new command CO and 1st SGT are not from the field they are now in command of. It seems that any commander from the medical field should know how life support/health care work and should take charge of his NCO and reschedule as needed. I have seen many units that used a sign in roster for pt to be able to show for further inspection that the unit is physically up to par.

I have also seen a lot of officers and higher NCOs that are from other units, or that have reclassed, come in and not understanding how a MP unit, or field hospital, or maintenance unit is NOT SF. This often happens after a life altering injury and reclass out of an infantry unit.

Unfortunately, the only fix I know of is time. Sometimes after reenlistments drop, or enough requests for pcs, the upper command will see it and make a change. If you love your work, stick it out and command will change again, or you will go somewhere else.

Best of luck.

Response by PO3 Robert Lyman made Jun 24 at 2021 6:51 PM

PO3 Robert Lyman — Thu, 24 Jun 2021 18:51:21 -0400

if you get 4 to 5 hours of sleep, what's your complaint? Do you think our enemy will be as cordial?

Response by Cpl James Graves made Jun 24 at 2021 7:58 PM

Cpl James Graves — Thu, 24 Jun 2021 19:58:24 -0400

You are in the Army, aren't you? I know it's not the Marine Corps but you better man up. Just kidding about the remark suggesting the army is less than the Marine Corps. But I was dead serious about you manning up. I can recall so many times in Vietnam when we had contact and most times it wasn't at the perfect time. And I can also recall going without sleep for a prolonged period of time and then having to hump all day up and down mountains during the monsoons etc. My point is that yes, you might have been tired. But that's life my friend. Many times you might be called on to perform with little to no sleep. You don't request mast to resolve the situation. You pick up your gear and get with the program. And bitchin about it won't do anything.

Response by LCpl Jason Ryan made Jun 24 at 2021 9:51 PM

LCpl Jason Ryan — Thu, 24 Jun 2021 21:51:07 -0400

PT on 4-5 hours sleep was standard operating procedure when I was in

Response by PO1 Eric Toppari made Jun 25 at 2021 8:27 AM

PO1 Eric Toppari — Fri, 25 Jun 2021 08:27:16 -0400

Hate to say it this way, but suck it up. Don't know how many times I worked an 8 hour day, had 4 hours off (or less) and then pulled the 20-24 or balls to 4 watch and then worked another 8 hour day. I'm surprised your leadership cadre let it get so bad that only 5 from a whole company showed up for PT. Normally something like that is considered a standing order and you don't get to pick and choose what orders you follow.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2021 8:53 AM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 25 Jun 2021 08:53:04 -0400

So my schedule is 0630 pt work 900-1630 and then go to bed at 2230-2300 and get less than 6 hours of sleep, waking up to get to pt and still having time to sleep you'll be fine.

Response by CPO Charles Mabry made Jun 25 at 2021 4:14 PM

CPO Charles Mabry — Fri, 25 Jun 2021 16:14:23 -0400

Frankly, this one is pretty easy....you go to PT. ANYBODY who has deployed will tell you that 5 hours of sleep is a luxury. Besides, you are assuming that you have to sleep at night. I see a huge window in your schedule from roughly 0700 to 1600 where you can get a solid 8 hours sleep...unless you are not telling us the entire picture. I get that you don't like it, but there are many worse situations I can think of. Shipboard life is typically port and starboard (12 on and 12 off) PLUS a 4-hour watch. Combat patrols are sometimes days long and have VERY FEW opportunities to sleep. The bottom line is that it is a lawful order and you need to follow it. Military life is a life of sleep deprivation - get used to it.

Response by SPC Julio R. made Jun 25 at 2021 5:16 PM

SPC Julio R. — Fri, 25 Jun 2021 17:16:30 -0400

nothing will or is going to happen because they will always pull rank, this is an ego trip type bs "look at me and my rank" situation. did he put out the proper information for the initial pt session and if so why didn't anyone brief this first sarnt about how schedules work around the hospital and that different shifts operate on diff times? I do not see how hard it would be for him to has his senior staff come out with a proper way of doing pt and a proper way for the first sarnt to micromanage I meant to come by and check-in or even join the pt session.
Ultimately though(as sure as I am that NCOs ask soldiers to have everything in the company done before anyone could go home and it was after end-of-day formation) they will always "PULL RANK!!!"
GOOD LUCK AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE....

Response by CDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2021 6:40 PM

CDR Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 26 Jun 2021 18:40:43 -0400

How about Option 3 - a mandatory PT session built at a time for this shift. As a military leader, we are to take care of our people...sometimes that means we are the ones who bend. PT, yes, needed. On a rigid time that benefits the 1SG vice the team, not needed. When on home station duty, we need to remember our service members have real lives as well. Many are taking college classes using TA - let's get the mission done while setting them up for success.

Response by MSG Rob Canarios made Jun 27 at 2021 8:20 AM

MSG Rob Canarios — Sun, 27 Jun 2021 08:20:33 -0400

It seems like your section NCOIC/OIC have no backbones accepting this nonsense. They should approach the 1SG/CO with an alternate plan: PT 1330-1430, Hygiene/Meals 1430-1530, Formation/Duty 1530-1600. It's your Section NCOIC/OIC's duty to recommend this to your 1SG/CO.

Response by CMSgt David Bridge made Jun 27 at 2021 3:18 PM

CMSgt David Bridge — Sun, 27 Jun 2021 15:18:51 -0400

Man up. You didn’t sign up for a 9-5 job. Start leading, yes even junior enlisted.

Response by SFC Della McCauley (Bukoski) made Jun 27 at 2021 3:59 PM

SFC Della McCauley (Bukoski) — Sun, 27 Jun 2021 15:59:18 -0400

Go to fucking pt!

Response by SFC Matthew Del Rossi made Jun 27 at 2021 5:33 PM

SFC Matthew Del Rossi — Sun, 27 Jun 2021 17:33:29 -0400

Go to PT. You are not a victim. Many a day I worked 12 hour shifts as an MP and had to do PT after shift.

Response by PO3 Jon Vick made Jun 27 at 2021 5:54 PM

PO3 Jon Vick — Sun, 27 Jun 2021 17:54:27 -0400

Get a big cup of suck it up. Does it suck? Yes. Is it fair? Probably not. Go to PT and then take a nap before work, whatever you need to do. You have your orders, figure it out.

Response by CW3 Patrick Hendrix made Jun 28 at 2021 2:26 PM

CW3 Patrick Hendrix — Mon, 28 Jun 2021 14:26:05 -0400

I have read some off the wall BS in my 70 years. This is right up there with the best..Listen the these active duty people. Me, hell I retired 35 years ago. What do I know..

Response by SFC William "Bill" Moore made Jun 28 at 2021 3:40 PM

SFC William "Bill" Moore — Mon, 28 Jun 2021 15:40:19 -0400

I worked shift work as well. We had PT right after shift at some duty stations, or around 0900 for midnight. Get with your platoon leadership and see what can be done.

Response by SPC William Knowlton made Jun 28 at 2021 3:46 PM

SPC William Knowlton — Mon, 28 Jun 2021 15:46:06 -0400

Suck it up a Chappie

Response by PO3 Steven Guess made Jun 28 at 2021 4:00 PM

PO3 Steven Guess — Mon, 28 Jun 2021 16:00:20 -0400

You don't want to sound like you are whining? Then quit your damn whining. Your only option if you think your life is tough?
Don't re-enlist. Until then you are sol.

Response by Sgt Michael Clifford made Jun 28 at 2021 8:29 PM

Sgt Michael Clifford — Mon, 28 Jun 2021 20:29:44 -0400

Boo Hoo. I suspect that the men at Bastogne, Guadalcanal and the Chosin reservoir would have appreciated 4 hours sleep. The first thing you do is follow orders and fall out for PT at the designated time. Then you approach your section leader to see if arrangements can be made for your section (1600-0000) to do PT at a time that works with your duty schedule, maybe your section could do their PT at 1400. If you do not get a response the move up the chain of command with your suggestion.

I assume that you are not trying to avoid PT just do it at a better time. I can remember when my platoon would fall out for PT/ 3 mile run on Monday mornings if you were unfortunate enough to be in the rear of the column you could literally get high on the alcohol being emitted in perspirations by troops running at the front of the column.

And yes you do sound like your whining.

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Jun 28 at 2021 10:07 PM

SSgt Daniel d'Errico — Mon, 28 Jun 2021 22:07:54 -0400

I see it this way. You joined up. You chose to go out and maybe party. You were told by your 1st Sgt to show for early morning PT. Since you're on the night shift, what better way to end you shift than by a little PT. Wanting to know if there is some regulation that will get you out early morning PT is lame.

Response by PVT Federico Maestas made Jun 29 at 2021 2:34 PM

PVT Federico Maestas — Tue, 29 Jun 2021 14:34:51 -0400

You better grow a backbone and get use to it. Four to five hours of sleep? Develop better time management skills or something but either way. If you can’t function on four to five hours of sleep, you definitely made a bad career choice.

Response by SGT Jon Mullins made Jun 29 at 2021 2:35 PM

SGT Jon Mullins — Tue, 29 Jun 2021 14:35:43 -0400

I read in your rant about only getting 4.5 hrs. of sleep before PT but you never addressed all of the time between PT hrs. and work call. As SGT Anonymous showed, there is plenty of sleep time between PT and work call, also between end of shift and PT formation.
To address the inconvenience of the PT formation conflicting with a solid work/sleep cycle, the argument could be made that Hospital shifts could adjust by a couple hrs to accommodate the existing PT parameters or perhaps exempting that your shift crew do PT as the work schedule allows.
There are many options you can chose from on how to handle it. The most important things I can say here are:
1- Comply with the formation times.
2- Address the situation with your squad leader AND platoon sergeant.
3- Be ready to accept “Shut up and color.” As the answer. By the regs you’re being afforded adequate sleep time, just not all at once.

Response by Sgt Ivan Boatwright made Jun 29 at 2021 5:23 PM

Sgt Ivan Boatwright — Tue, 29 Jun 2021 17:23:24 -0400

In Vietnam, I never slept more than two hours at a time and usually only four hours per night; if lucky, I might get six. I was there for 32 months, and no more than eight months over that time did I ever get six to eight hours per night when in the rear or when I worked in a bunker for six months. Some Navy coremen with us got less.

Response by PO1 Beth Cordes made Jun 29 at 2021 6:16 PM

PO1 Beth Cordes — Tue, 29 Jun 2021 18:16:03 -0400

First of all you are whining. Second of all you don’t “bring it up”. Buck up buttercup! This is your military life. Your not an accountant at some firm. You do what your told when your told in ANY conditions. If you are in a life or death situation you have to automatically do what you are told, no questions. I agree if PT at an inconvenient time for you is hard then find another career.

Response by SFC Louis Willhauck, MSM, JSCM, and ARCOM made Jun 30 at 2021 8:24 AM

SFC Louis Willhauck, MSM, JSCM, and ARCOM — Wed, 30 Jun 2021 08:24:44 -0400

Do they still issue T.S. cards these days? Anyway, I'd suggest that you get your 4 hours, then PT, then take a nap before going back into work.

Response by CPL M Miller made Jun 30 at 2021 11:31 AM

CPL M Miller — Wed, 30 Jun 2021 11:31:13 -0400

SOLDIER FIRST , Job second. combat zone is different. (PERIOD) Go do PT per army regulations and Your assigned Command. Be late at the Job for following the orders of those appointed over you. (remember that part of the oath you took) The situation WILL fix itself as it is the Leadership responsibility to attend to the scheduling of work shifts, NOT the Jr enlisted. FOLLOW THE ORDER! Soldiers , soldier, Commanders, Command. but it takes a leadership TEAM to make it work. Let the leadership Know of the issue , follow the order, and watch what will happen. I GUARANTEE IT!

Response by PO3 Scott Savoy made Jun 30 at 2021 11:51 AM

PO3 Scott Savoy — Wed, 30 Jun 2021 11:51:14 -0400

Dude, you really shouldn't be in the military then. Lack of sleep, kind of defines the military.

Response by PO3 David Keck made Jun 30 at 2021 12:58 PM

PO3 David Keck — Wed, 30 Jun 2021 12:58:50 -0400

Aboard ship at times, getting 4 to 5 hours would have been luxurious. But you realize the vessel never sleeps. You are part of that machine.

Response by SGT Glenn E Moody made Jun 30 at 2021 9:18 PM

SGT Glenn E Moody — Wed, 30 Jun 2021 21:18:10 -0400

read the opinions 1st to get in the army or any branch of the military you have to pass the pt test period in your contract you signed it said you must maintain it as we get older the pt test change but you still have to pass the pt test or get an unsat discharge if they call a pt formation & you don't show then you are AWOL so shut up suck it up and do your pt

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2021 10:21 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Jun 2021 22:21:10 -0400

I think a good NCO would take this up with 1SG. I always wanted my personnel to be at top performance. In a hospital that is most expected. However, not the same for my Infantrymen.

Response by SGT Matt Wyeth made Jun 30 at 2021 10:36 PM

SGT Matt Wyeth — Wed, 30 Jun 2021 22:36:39 -0400

Lol

Response by SPC Paul Davis made Jul 1 at 2021 12:25 AM

SPC Paul Davis — Thu, 01 Jul 2021 00:25:33 -0400

Spc. How can I say this delicately?
Awww screw it.pull up your big boy pants and goto put. If that's the worst thing happening you're good to go. I've done worse with less sleep. I'm pretty sure you went through basic and at one point you didn't get 4-5 hrs sleep in 2-3days. At least I didn't back in 88. The ARMY has changed. Getting soft.

Response by SFC Benjamin Milligan made Jul 1 at 2021 8:16 AM

SFC Benjamin Milligan — Thu, 01 Jul 2021 08:16:43 -0400

What do you think you could do between the completion time of PT...around 0630, maybe 0700 and the time you are expected to report back for your shift at 1600? If my military math is correct, that would mean you have 9 hours to do something? What could it be? PT is a great way to relieve stress, build strength and stamina and maybe dig down inside yourself to see if you have it within to cope mentally and physically. Have you even tried to make it work yet? Or are you beating yourself before you can beat the problem?

Response by PV2 Joseph Myers made Jul 1 at 2021 10:32 AM

PV2 Joseph Myers — Thu, 01 Jul 2021 10:32:14 -0400

I forget who originally said this but the more you sweat in training the less you bleed in war

Response by SSG David McPherson made Jul 1 at 2021 1:10 PM

SSG David McPherson — Thu, 01 Jul 2021 13:10:23 -0400

If your situation is due to mission requirements then get with your NCO’s and figure out a PT plan around your mission requirements

Response by Cpl Mike Strohecker made Jul 1 at 2021 2:34 PM

Cpl Mike Strohecker — Thu, 01 Jul 2021 14:34:24 -0400

I don't really want to sound off base here, but I was really asking myself if this was a real concern. I come from the early 80's Marine Corps. and to be honest, a question like this NEVER crossed my mind. I guess if you are being ordered to be in formation for PT, you just be there. There was no such thing about feelings then, I'm surprised there is now. Good luck moving forward though..

Response by Col Ian O'Connell made Jul 2 at 2021 11:54 AM

Col Ian O'Connell — Fri, 02 Jul 2021 11:54:14 -0400

It's hard to read all the "suck it up" comments. It's absolutely true a deployment or emergency requires military members to do all sorts of things out of the ordinary, including catching only a few minutes sleep when it's available. However, that should not be the norm for a unit that is not deployed. Unit leadership should be about taking care of the mission and the personnel. It isn't rocket science to understand that taking care of your personnel is how your mission succeeds. Regularly expecting your personnel to show up for any mandatory event with 4-5 hours of sleep is a great way to 1) have an accident or fatality due to fatigue 2) have a medical error that causes a code in the hospital 3) develop a retention problem as your personnel realize good leaders don't screw with their personnel this way unless it's an emergency. It's great that the unit has two PT sessions scheduled that are convenient for folks on day shift. Why not add a couple more to take care of the folks on the other two shifts? "Just because it's always been done that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid."

Response by SPC Halle Henderson made Jul 2 at 2021 1:46 PM

SPC Halle Henderson — Fri, 02 Jul 2021 13:46:26 -0400

Up and at em...this is what you signed up for

Response by PFC Matt Ochmanski made Jul 4 at 2021 12:05 AM

PFC Matt Ochmanski — Sun, 04 Jul 2021 00:05:41 -0400

Suck it up buttercup, as an MP that worked 19:00-07:00. Before shift meet at the PMO and do PT in a group. During shift I picked up a shit storm. At 13:00 I finished the paperwork and all the tickets and log. At 17:00 was PT. I was asked if I would be there? I ask do I have a choice? The SGT advised that the question was a trick question. So in bed by 14:00, up at 16:00, PT 17:00-18:00, 18:30 shower at the PMO and on shift 19:00 with a smile. Suck it up. You fight as you train and you should be training to fight!

Response by SSG Deron Santiny made Jul 4 at 2021 2:28 PM

SSG Deron Santiny — Sun, 04 Jul 2021 14:28:14 -0400

First off, how is it that only five people showed up for a PT Formation? I don't recall it being an option. I can tell you that we spent days on missions with little to no sleep then came in and went to the gym. Physical Health is a vital part of survival in combat, lack of sleep isn't an excuse. If your body is healthy and you are in shape, running on 4-5 hours of sleep, it won't hurt to do PT. It's all about you and your health and conditioning. If your Leadership is giving you an option of times and you know you are working at the time of one of the options then I guess your only option is the 0530 formation. Just because you have a job (like everyone else) doesn't excuse you from regulations and responsibility. Just my opinion.

Response by SGT M C made Jul 5 at 2021 8:22 AM

SGT M C — Mon, 05 Jul 2021 08:22:49 -0400

You suck it up. Went to the 7th Army NCO academy in Bad Tolz Germany for 28 days Training 1966. UP at 4 AM. bed by 12 or 1 PM. after all your studies and duties. Complete and utter craziness. Hallways floor was not walked on except along a small tile border as it was literally spit polished with Kiwi black shoe polish. That tells you the purposeful sort of harassments and nonsense that one had to endure in order to graduate and not go back to your unit having "Gigged" out. You'll survive you are young and like most things it will most likely pass.

Response by SSG Harry Herres made Jul 5 at 2021 9:52 PM

SSG Harry Herres — Mon, 05 Jul 2021 21:52:31 -0400

Sorry for your lack of sleep. I worked 12 hour shifts , came back to my base camp, ate some C-rations and pulled Sgt of the guard for another 8 hr. Then another 8 hr shift then 6 hr of sleep. I humped the bush for 8 hr. Then worked 2 hour shifts on and off for 10 more hours then humped 8 hr then 2 hr shift for 2 weeks. Grow up to what you signed up for. Sorry been there done that!

Response by CW3 Dan Mackey made Jul 6 at 2021 1:30 PM

CW3 Dan Mackey — Tue, 06 Jul 2021 13:30:52 -0400

This is just my two cents worth. I don't know if you are in combat arms and this may only really apply if you are.
It is important to be able to fight at full speed thru any level of tired in combat and training when tired is the only way to build up that skill.

Suck it up and go train! Then are no timeouts in combat! Your in the army now rest is to be taken whenever you can find it and fight thru the fatigue and still preform!

If you are not in combat arms you may live by a different standard and then I am sorry and have no reference to help you. Sorry

Response by MSgt Marvin Kinderknecht made Jul 8 at 2021 3:00 PM

MSgt Marvin Kinderknecht — Thu, 08 Jul 2021 15:00:00 -0400

Are you kidding? I had to get out of bed, put on my flight suit and go fly. No breakfast, no clothes just hoping we had coffee on the airplane. Where in the hell were we going? Florida, That's where. CUBAN CRISIS. The life of a TANKER crew. The life of a military man is NOT a piece of cake. That is why--and how we EARN our benefits.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 15 at 2021 11:55 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Jul 2021 11:55:05 -0400

Here's a really blunt answer... your 1sg is an idiot and your PL and PSG are spineless. Yeah yeah "don't talk about leadership blah blah blah.". Yes, you can manage your time and sleep up to 6 hours (wow) mid morning to afternoon. Sure. Because that's super sustainable when it becomes your job to treat people and using the best judgment to do so. The "suck it up" answers here are but he same clown mentality that gives you the toxic leadership you're facing now, in the future. Can you do something about it? Not much. Can you get in another field that takes rest cycles a little more serious? Absolutely. I hope your field isn't crying about retention with that kind of management. Erratic schedules put the onus of physical fitness on the individual. Can you pass a pt test? Height/weight? Great! No? Then personal management isn't your thing and you get processed out. Sorry about your luck miss, I hope you look forward to a reclass instead of just saying "f**k it I'm out". The grown adult ego babies managing you should be ashamed.

Response by SPC Eileen Keller made Jul 15 at 2021 1:23 PM

SPC Eileen Keller — Thu, 15 Jul 2021 13:23:21 -0400

I also worked "odd" shifts when I was active duty for most of my time in the Army. Performing on less sleep, or in inadequate conditions or with inadequate supplies, was considered part of our training. I would respectfully go back to your platoon sergeant and present your situation again, making sure you are not whining. Ask permission to speak to the First Sergeant. You don't mention how many days a week it is, etc. If it's 5 days a week for the foreseeable future, you will need to do something to get more sleep. I believe most First Sergeants would help you find a solution if your platoon sergeant is unable to do so.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 26 at 2021 3:42 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Jul 2021 15:42:15 -0400

The military only has to allow you 4hrs of sleep and it doesnt have to be cumulative

Response by SGT Ed Walden made Jul 26 at 2021 6:49 PM

SGT Ed Walden — Mon, 26 Jul 2021 18:49:32 -0400

You get to PT formation!
When I was AD, we were told that we would always get a minimum 5hrs of sleep a day.
No one, and I mean no one promised they would be 5 consecutive hours.
Tou say that you don't want to sound like you're whining.
That is in fact what you are doing.
Do your job, which as lower/junior enlisted is: Be where you're told to be, when you're told to be there and in the correct uniform.

Response by SFC Thomas Cook made Jul 27 at 2021 1:36 AM

SFC Thomas Cook — Tue, 27 Jul 2021 01:36:16 -0400

The replies to this post made my head hurt. All i see is lazy leadership. I'm glad im 11 years removed from this kind of thoughtlessness. Do what you gotta do. The civilian sector is going to pay you double and you'll probably be at the same hospital on a day shift.

Response by SSgt Raymond Sirois made Jul 27 at 2021 2:48 AM

SSgt Raymond Sirois — Tue, 27 Jul 2021 02:48:35 -0400

You go to PT. End of discussion.

Christ, what has our military turned into?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2021 11:14 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 27 Jul 2021 11:14:18 -0400

Alright, since you’ve primarily gotten flack I’ll tell you how to approach it.

You’ve got an NCO support channel, use it! If that fails use the open door policy.

Just be prepared to offer a solution, not a gripe. An example of a solution would be to have whoever is senior on your shift run a PT session either two hours prior to your shift or an hour after.

The leadership should be LEADING and that takes putting the mission first. The mission, in your shifts case, requires soldiers who can perform the mission safely for the patients they are caring for. Interrupted sleep patterns are not what is best.

At the same time PT during the heat of the day is not the safest time to be running, nor is the middle of the night. That may be where the 1SG is coming from. Our PT formations were at 0600 for the 0630 start time, 0530 seems really early.

Response by CPL Joseph Bennett made Jul 27 at 2021 10:28 PM

CPL Joseph Bennett — Tue, 27 Jul 2021 22:28:44 -0400

suck it up and do PT

Response by CPL Joseph Bennett made Jul 27 at 2021 10:30 PM

CPL Joseph Bennett — Tue, 27 Jul 2021 22:30:06 -0400

as far as army regs your screwed no where does it state you need more then 4 hours sleep with only 2 hours being consecutive

Response by CPT Tommy Curtis made Jul 28 at 2021 2:14 AM

CPT Tommy Curtis — Wed, 28 Jul 2021 02:14:14 -0400

You effing go and you are whining.

Response by MAJ Jeff Houston made Jul 28 at 2021 5:06 PM

MAJ Jeff Houston — Wed, 28 Jul 2021 17:06:38 -0400

When you deploy you'll be fortunate to get 5-6 hours of sleep a night. I recommend that you discipline yourself to get there on time. We've all done it. You can too.

Response by SGT William Tate made Jul 28 at 2021 8:46 PM

SGT William Tate — Wed, 28 Jul 2021 20:46:49 -0400

Go to your 0530 PT session because you’re a Soldier first and being physically fit is mandatory! 4 to 5 hours is enough plus you can go back and sleep a few more hours afterwards. I don’t see the issue here other than you don’t want to PT. By all means bring up the issue but don’t be surprised if you’re told to go pound sand. Embrace the suck!! You signed the contract!

Response by SGT Deborah Jones-deleon made Jul 29 at 2021 2:22 AM

SGT Deborah Jones-deleon — Thu, 29 Jul 2021 02:22:37 -0400

Omg you sound like such a pussy. You shouldn't be in the military. Get the hell out you wimp

Response by MCPO Mark Burns made Jul 29 at 2021 7:15 AM

MCPO Mark Burns — Thu, 29 Jul 2021 07:15:17 -0400

Go to bed early.

Response by CW3 Josiah John made Jul 29 at 2021 10:02 AM

CW3 Josiah John — Thu, 29 Jul 2021 10:02:41 -0400

As someone who has worked shift work while in the Army, a possible solution (and this would be something to push up through your section sergeant/platoon sergeant to the command) would be to have section-level PT rather than company level PT. I worked rotating shift (5 day shifts with weekend followed by 5 midnight shifts with weekend, switching back and forth for several years). We either did PT before the shift (for the day shifts) or immediately after the shift (for the midnight shifts) as a section.

Response by PO1 Bob Davis made Jul 29 at 2021 12:00 PM

PO1 Bob Davis — Thu, 29 Jul 2021 12:00:10 -0400

I am in fear for my country, if these wimps can’t do their job on 4-5 hrs sleep! How in the world did they make it through Boot Camp?

Response by A1C Michael Beal made Jul 29 at 2021 3:35 PM

A1C Michael Beal — Thu, 29 Jul 2021 15:35:02 -0400

Embrace the suck, go to PT and adjust your sleep schedule. End of discussion.

Response by SSgt W. Aaron Gregory made Jul 29 at 2021 4:04 PM

SSgt W. Aaron Gregory — Thu, 29 Jul 2021 16:04:42 -0400

If this is going to cause you such a ruckus, I'd find another employer. This one isn't going to work for you.

Response by SPC Susan Newsome made Jul 29 at 2021 9:48 PM

SPC Susan Newsome — Thu, 29 Jul 2021 21:48:28 -0400

I wish I could say I read this without my mouth wide open. Unfortunately, when you enlisted, someone may have hinted that it would be an easy paycheck, you can't get fired, or that you would have choices. Here's the thing- when I signed up after 911, it was clear that when I signed on those millions of lines, I gave up my freedoms to fight for the freedom of others- that includes giving up sleep so others may. If you are still in basic, I may suggest a change of careers back into the civilian sector- there's no promise it will get any easier from here. If lack of sleep is taking you out, perhaps this is not the fight for you. Just my input

Response by SGT Gary Tob made Jul 29 at 2021 11:41 PM

SGT Gary Tob — Thu, 29 Jul 2021 23:41:14 -0400

Oh my God grow up!!! Be a soldier not a snow flake

Response by MSG Michael Gay made Jul 30 at 2021 9:50 AM

MSG Michael Gay — Fri, 30 Jul 2021 09:50:04 -0400

Ask about an alternative time or location. You should also realize that being able to perform on limited or intermittent sleep is what being a soldier is all about.

Response by PO1 Timothy Organ made Jul 30 at 2021 10:55 AM

PO1 Timothy Organ — Fri, 30 Jul 2021 10:55:58 -0400

Hydrate, stretch, and make sure you have on dry socks. You think the Taliban cares how much dog gone sleep you get? No they want you burned the hell out. Better learn to deal with that now so when it happens then you'll have learned how to function. In other words, stop bitchin, lace up your damn gofasters and get out to the PT Field! 1st Sgt is waiting on you....!

Response by SN Zack McKague made Jul 30 at 2021 11:12 AM

SN Zack McKague — Fri, 30 Jul 2021 11:12:07 -0400

Just about every suck it up response is wrong. I was a navy nuke, a rating notorious for lack of sleep due to watch rotation and maintenance. That said, we valued every ounce of sleep we got. PT in the navy is done on a self-driven basis, the command doesn't have the time to work you out so you do it on your own. The army needs to get with something like that. group PT is fine like once a week but every day is silly, takes away sleep from people who need it (like those working in a hospital with patients, I want them to sleep), and realistically all it does is piss all of the soldiers off. You are adults. you should be able to handle PT on your own. Unless the army can't handle it, which would point to some major problems with leadership and training.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2021 2:09 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 30 Jul 2021 14:09:37 -0400

Having been in a medical unit myself (though I was on the line, so I ACTUALLY only got 4 or 5 hours of sleep many nights) I would say it is up to leadership to get a schedule for you. If only 5 ppl showed up to PT one morning, it wouldn't matter what your role was you would be showing up the next day or getting chaptered. It sounds like the 1SG has bigger problems than the medical section. My advice, wait til this all blows over then ask your supervisor to ask for a new PT time that makes sense. Our TMC section had 1600 PT because they started work before morning PT. Sometimes 1SG would show up to make sure they were doing it.

Response by SPC Henry Francis made Jul 31 at 2021 12:37 AM

SPC Henry Francis — Sat, 31 Jul 2021 00:37:58 -0400

Get up, go to PT

Response by SPC Daniel Rankin made Jul 31 at 2021 10:39 PM

SPC Daniel Rankin — Sat, 31 Jul 2021 22:39:40 -0400

Try coming back from the field at midnight and be up in pt uniforms at 4:30. That is the military way. And if you can not hack it then you are definitely in the wrong field of work. And the Civilian working area is a place you might not be able to handle either.

Response by 1stSgt Ani Stubbs made Aug 2 at 2021 11:34 AM

1stSgt Ani Stubbs — Mon, 02 Aug 2021 11:34:38 -0400

Go to your NCO, follow chain of command Offer to lead a PT session at 1400 for the 1600 starting shift workers

Response by SGT Tomas Lopez made Aug 22 at 2021 4:26 AM

SGT Tomas Lopez — Sun, 22 Aug 2021 04:26:16 -0400

I will tell you like I was told when I was an E-4 suck it up butter cup. There is no way around it and like SFC Michael said earlier, there is no rest for the weary and if you can't hang, then look into a career field that does not demand so much out of you. Sorry to have to break it to you but as a soldier you do what must be done no matter what. I went through the special forces training and we were put through sleep deprivation so I know what it was like to work with 3 to 4 hours worth of sleep. I don't feel sorry for you just wish that the soldiers were told what they are in for before they join. I enjoyed my time as a soldier and I would not trade it for the world. If I had to do it all over again I would.

Response by SGT Jeff Harrington made Aug 22 at 2021 1:29 PM

SGT Jeff Harrington — Sun, 22 Aug 2021 13:29:34 -0400

I get it, it sucks. Many times have stayed at the EM and NCO Club way too long, and went to PT on 3-4 hours sleep, I was far from the only one, the formation would smell of sweat, alcohol, and puke. As for only 4-5 people at PT formation, well, that just wouldn’t happen, all my CO’s were PT addicts, one in particular was push up King of Benning back in the day, Having said all that, from the origin of the thread this Soldier is Medical (REMF). For anyone to think that the standards for PT apply equally to Rear echelon and combat arms MOS once at permanent party, ha. And be honest all of you that are CA, if you had the chance to sham on PT, you would and did when the opportunity arose. During the height of my time in I was a Scout with 3/2 ACR on the Czech/FRG Border, we even did PT at the Border Camps, and Mr. Ft. Benning was our CO. I know what the FM say and what the standards, Reg’s are, I also know what the reality is, besides anyone who sites Reg’s and Standards for decision making is a poor leader and will probably get you dead while try to find his FM.

Response by MSgt Marvin Kinderknecht made Aug 22 at 2021 2:49 PM

MSgt Marvin Kinderknecht — Sun, 22 Aug 2021 14:49:11 -0400

I don't know anything about the Army but it might depend on your duties. Check with the ranking Enlisted or go up the ladder.
In the Air Force I was in the Tactical Air Command. We had our on regs ( which were ignored most of the time). Air Force Regs said we had to had 8 hours of UNINTERRUPTED sleep between fights. When I informed my pilot of this his response was---- Get your ass on the airplane! YES SIR. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and move on.

Response by PFC Robert Avants made Aug 22 at 2021 7:11 PM

PFC Robert Avants — Sun, 22 Aug 2021 19:11:47 -0400

quit your whining shitbag and get your ass to PT, you're GI act like it!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2021 11:38 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 22 Aug 2021 23:38:37 -0400

To be honest I worked that hospital life. If you’re working nights and your command wants you to go to PT at 0500 after working your night shift, utilitize your first sergeant/commanders open door policy. Tell them it’s absolutely unacceptable and list your reasons why. If they are unresponsive tell them you would like to utilize the CSM/LTC open door policy. Keep going up from there. You might get shit on, but I guarantee you at some point down the line someone will shut that shit down.

As for all of the other people commenting here, they probably never worked in a hospital and are just telling you to suck it up because they think you’re on cq or staff duty, not working in a lab where a mistake could be costly to them or their loved ones. Fight the good fight and stand up for yourself. Hospital life can suck a whole lot to be honest. You work shit hours and get shit on a lot. It’s the name of the game but don’t let them fuck you like that.

Response by 1st Lt Richard Gauthier made Aug 23 at 2021 7:50 AM

1st Lt Richard Gauthier — Mon, 23 Aug 2021 07:50:37 -0400

War takes no pause unless the enemy is defeated. The Military is always preparing to conduct battle. It is part of the conditioning and unfortunately it is part of the preparation. Eat when you can, Sleep when you can and Work when you must!

Response by SFC Terry Bryant made Aug 23 at 2021 7:53 AM

SFC Terry Bryant — Mon, 23 Aug 2021 07:53:51 -0400

PT is an essential function of your duty. You PT when you are in garrison, and even when you are in a combat zone if possible. There is no reason to NOT do PT. It is as much a part of your job in the Military as your MOS. Find a reason to do PT as opposed to excuses not too. In 32 years I never missed a PT test nor did I fail one. I just accepted that it is a part of my life in the Military. That being said if it is truly interfering with your main duties because of scheduling conflicts then I would recommend you put together a plan to do PT before or after your work schedule. Get a group together that is with your squad or unit and ASK your first line leader if he would approve of such an idea. What ever you do in the Military always use your chain of command. DO NOT go straight to TOP with this issue. That will not go well with your next line leader. That is his or her job.

On a second note about PT. I am now retired and will turn 57 in October. I still till this day do PT even retired. Not because I HAVE too. Because I CAN! Use PT not just for your job but for your health and longevity. Make it part of your every day routine even when you are on leave or just vegging out. Your body and mind will thank you for it in your older age Soldier.

Response by COL Carl Jensen made Aug 23 at 2021 8:51 AM

COL Carl Jensen — Mon, 23 Aug 2021 08:51:10 -0400

As an EM I pulled a late shift job, by the time I was in bed it was 1 a.m.. If we had PT I had to be there. It was a rare occasion when they left me in bed, but I don't recall ever sleeping beyond normal wake up. I reported to my assigned job in the a.m.. and would seek a place to sleep. My problem was solved by one of my local 1st Sgts in the training Brigade, who gave me a room in one of the then semi vacant wooden barracks to grab some z's. It worked out great, it was across the road from my assigned position. There is more to this story but I won't go there. It became my residence and I only showed up at the company when I was on the duty roster. The roughest time I had in the Army was doing pots and pans when they made hot dogs with cheese. 073.10 the best MOS the Army had. LOL!! I didn't ask for it, they just gave it to me. It was the old Army back in the early 60's, us civilians were called to fight in Berlin, and then Cuba. You can adjust your sleeping arrangements via your unit, but you have to be there for announced formations and the duty rooster. As long as you aren't gold bricking, some arrangement can be made. Use the chain of command. That's 60 yrs ago, hopefully you can still do that.

Response by Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis made Aug 23 at 2021 2:00 PM

Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis — Mon, 23 Aug 2021 14:00:54 -0400

First, I would see if there was any way to get adequate rest. Stop going to the Club, get into the sack early, etc. It is possible that you've already done that. If that is the case, I would recommend looking up the Regs for something called "Crew Rest" then contact the IG. Cite the Regs, then let them know the facts. Keep it professional.

As an adaptation, I note that, while 0530 is only five hours off your shift, PT would likely last one, maybe two hours at most. This brings you to 0730, at the latest. You have from (I'd say) 0800 or so, at the latest, to midnight for other activities. I would hit the sack and get supplemental rest from 0800 to noon or one. Then you would have from when you got up to midnight for dining, etc. Leave any "fun" stuff for the weekends. If you can do this, you might get a leg up on your competition; you have shown adaptability and your unit should appreciate that.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2021 2:13 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Aug 2021 14:13:12 -0400

You go to PT

Response by LTC Richard McClure made Aug 23 at 2021 6:50 PM

LTC Richard McClure — Mon, 23 Aug 2021 18:50:45 -0400

Unfortunately for you, you must show up for PT. You are at the bottom of the totem pole, and, as a junior enlisted, you are indeed stuck. Army Regulations support your Company Commander and 1SG on this one. Get up, do your PT, clean up, go back to bed until it's time to get up for work.

Response by CDR Kc James made Aug 24 at 2021 11:38 AM

CDR Kc James — Tue, 24 Aug 2021 11:38:29 -0400

Talk to your SGT about it & use the 'chain of command.' Attend PT as ordered & look for solutions. That's what leaders do.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2021 4:22 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Aug 2021 16:22:56 -0400

I would go to your Section leader and Platoon Sergeant and tell your concern and then ask him to see if he can't get another time for those of you who work that particular shift. If he won't asked to see the First Sergeant and if that doesn't work go see the Commander during his open office time. The Commander has said all will conduct PT...and that order must be obeyed so ask for a 3d time for those who have to work that particular shift. But if it isn't forthcoming you have to do the 0530 PT and then go back to bed after it is over.

Response by 1stLt Jon Finstad made Aug 24 at 2021 8:04 PM

1stLt Jon Finstad — Tue, 24 Aug 2021 20:04:36 -0400

By nutting up and doing your PT..

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2021 11:26 PM

CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Aug 2021 23:26:54 -0400

Yeah. What you’re gonna want to do is suck it up. That should take care of it.

Response by SSG Bill Moore made Aug 25 at 2021 9:37 AM

SSG Bill Moore — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 09:37:56 -0400

What in the actual F is this little snot nosed shit posting that shit here for? Someone needs some wall to wall counseling

Response by CPO Arthur Weinberger made Aug 25 at 2021 10:39 AM

CPO Arthur Weinberger — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 10:39:30 -0400

You are an E-4. The 1SG has issued an order, therefore you are required to attend pt., end of discusion. You are in the Army obey your orders.

Response by SGT Gary Tob made Aug 25 at 2021 2:07 PM

SGT Gary Tob — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 14:07:07 -0400

You're kidding right? You're supposed to be a soldier, not a snow flake civilian. You're lucky you aren't in the " Brown Boot Army" of WWII, Korea or Black Boot Army during Vietnam.

Response by Sgt Rob Ahern made Aug 25 at 2021 2:56 PM

Sgt Rob Ahern — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 14:56:25 -0400

Geeze. Suck it up Buttercup.

Response by SPC Sam Sterner made Aug 25 at 2021 3:50 PM

SPC Sam Sterner — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 15:50:58 -0400

Go to bed early

Response by SFC Dave Nutter made Aug 25 at 2021 6:07 PM

SFC Dave Nutter — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 18:07:09 -0400

military life is all about sleep deprivation. There were times when i would literally go days w/o sleep. or as another commented stay out till and be in the 0600 pt formation. i suggest you find a civilian job

Response by Sgt Earl Neconie made Aug 25 at 2021 6:38 PM

Sgt Earl Neconie — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 18:38:05 -0400

Seriously?! Suck it up Negative Nancy! You are expected to guard this Great Nation with little or no sleep! I guess you’ve never stayed on post for (3-4) days straight or humped (50) miles in (2) days while sleeping with 70lbs packs! The “ME ME ME Generation PUSSIES” are not for the US MILITARY! Do NOT reenlist! How embarrassing to read your unsat excuse for a life! Would like some CHEESE with that WHINE?! Semper Fi to the dedicated…

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2021 7:45 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 19:45:17 -0400

Well precious, you do what everyone in the army has been doing for 100's of years. It's called the chain of command, you have a legitimate issue with the hours, however, if you're not coming up with a solution and pushing it up that's on you. In the meantime get your ass up and go to PT. You will still have plenty of time for rest before your 1600 shift.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2021 12:25 AM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 Aug 2021 00:25:12 -0400

If your job won't let you PT on their time, ensure you are at 0530 formation. Manage time and rest accordingly. That's assuming you are not on any type of restricted duty, such as medical. Extra watches are common for USN sailors, often restricting crew rest to minutes. So it could be worse. Offer it to your leaders at work as a solution for others. Readiness, Fitness and restricted rest is all in your contract indirectly.

Response by PO1 Ken Helmick made Aug 26 at 2021 8:17 AM

PO1 Ken Helmick — Thu, 26 Aug 2021 08:17:02 -0400

Honestly, when I was in the fleet, those of us in the carrier's engine rooms were on a 4 and 8 watch rotation ... four hours on and eight hours off. This sounds pretty good except that I said watch rotation. In addition to those 8 hours of watches, we had our regular workday to deal with. When standing watch you monitored engine room machinery, placed equipment online and took it off, maintained operating logs, and so on. During the workday, you did preventive maintenance, repairs, cleaning, and so on. It was uncommon to ever get eight hours of sleep, and six was often a luxury. You had to make your sleep fit into the schedule -- most of us made do with two shorter periods of sleep.

That said, some commands take diligence to the level of abuse. I can remember being so tired that I once fell asleep during General Quarters -- the Lieutenant wanted to write me up but the Master Chief advised that the charge would never stick since I was standing upright at the time. The command couldn't figure out why retention was so bad....

Response by SFC Kurt Brunken made Aug 26 at 2021 9:32 AM

SFC Kurt Brunken — Thu, 26 Aug 2021 09:32:40 -0400

That bites, Are you off from 0000-1600? Sounds like work 1600-0000, sleep some, do PT, then sleep some more. BTW no one cares you are SPC(P), SPC works just fine.

Response by SrA Doyle Durham made Aug 26 at 2021 11:00 AM

SrA Doyle Durham — Thu, 26 Aug 2021 11:00:46 -0400

You need to check your Duty Regulations. When I was Active Duty Air Force, working in the Base Hospital as an E-4, I pulled many 16-hour shifts, had time for 3 Meals & got about 4-hours of sleep each day, because the duty demanded that! No Regulations were violated & as a unit supervisor I set the example for those working in my section.

Response by SPC Brian Stephens made Aug 26 at 2021 1:37 PM

SPC Brian Stephens — Thu, 26 Aug 2021 13:37:58 -0400

Go to morning PT. Sleep after. When I was in, we had to run PT at 6:00 AM, M-F, unless we had sick call or a medical profile.

Response by PVT Mark Whitcomb made Aug 26 at 2021 4:33 PM

PVT Mark Whitcomb — Thu, 26 Aug 2021 16:33:24 -0400

5 people?? ur kidding....infantry we ran 3 miles every day except Monday..we ran 5 on Monday. First Monday of the month we ran 7 in a Battalion run. that was after our morning PT. you never missed PT even if you had a broken leg. They would have remedial PT for those who were injured. I do believe the Military is still all Volenteers. You signed up for it. deal with it.

Response by SSG Bill McCoy made Aug 26 at 2021 7:13 PM

SSG Bill McCoy — Thu, 26 Aug 2021 19:13:07 -0400

Go to PT ... shower then rack out for a bit. It is what it is.

Response by SSgt James Brasier made Aug 26 at 2021 9:46 PM

SSgt James Brasier — Thu, 26 Aug 2021 21:46:23 -0400

0700 to 1500 is 8 house sleep...

Response by MSgt J D McKee made Aug 27 at 2021 9:32 AM

MSgt J D McKee — Fri, 27 Aug 2021 09:32:51 -0400

I'm so glad I no longer have to put up with the whims of idiots proving a point, that point usually being how important they are.
It's a hospital whomever it is works at. Not everyone has to be hardcore like front line infantry, SEALs and pilots. I would personally prefer rested, happy, non-resentful and not pissed off at the world in general junior enlisted looking after me If I were in the hospital. Instead of boosting someone's ego, or putting somebody's stamp on the situation, in the middle of their night.

I don't really care if they are in tip top shape unless they are combat medics in a war. First Sergeant undoubtedly works day shift as does the CC. I wonder how they would like having PT at 22:30 every day.

Making everyone prove they can bleed to improve one's image, either the !sgt or the CC.

Response by PFC David Foster made Aug 27 at 2021 11:20 AM

PFC David Foster — Fri, 27 Aug 2021 11:20:44 -0400

I remember seeing some pretty rough mornings after drinking that strong German beer until closing time and then trying to do the Wednesday morning 5 mile run.... All the other days it was only a two mile run and doing that hungover was standard procedure, but after getting soused before the Wednesday 5 miler was always painful. I was so sick a couple of times, to the point of dying, I dropped out blaming it on my bum knee... There was really no getting out of it beforehand lol.... Sound off! Oh, and wth, 4 or 5 hours of sleep would have been a good nights sleep lol..... I'm talking get home at 3 and up at 5.....

Response by SSG James Mielke made Aug 27 at 2021 11:21 AM

SSG James Mielke — Fri, 27 Aug 2021 11:21:22 -0400

1) Welcome to the Army, Buttercup. Suck it up and drive on.
2) Get your 4 hours of sleep, do your PT, then go back to sleep if you are allowed.
3) If you are not allowed to get more beauty sleep, refer to #1.

Response by Cpl Tyler Therrien made Aug 27 at 2021 12:17 PM

Cpl Tyler Therrien — Fri, 27 Aug 2021 12:17:10 -0400

I have only one word WAAAAAH!

Response by LCpl Kenneth Heath made Aug 27 at 2021 12:50 PM

LCpl Kenneth Heath — Fri, 27 Aug 2021 12:50:07 -0400

Are you fucking serious?
What a whiny li'l bitch you are. If you get away with this, then what's next? "I was up late watching a movie"... blah, blah, blah.
You've got the whole rest of the day, take a nap before your 16:00 shift and grow a pair.

Response by SFC Dennis Rodriguez made Aug 27 at 2021 3:37 PM

SFC Dennis Rodriguez — Fri, 27 Aug 2021 15:37:06 -0400

You solve that by going to PT.

Response by 1SG Chad Mcdaniel made Aug 27 at 2021 8:37 PM

1SG Chad Mcdaniel — Fri, 27 Aug 2021 20:37:02 -0400

The 1SG noticed? Shoot if only five Soldiers showed up to PT I wouldn't just notice I'd be furious. I was a 1SG in two totally different companies. Last time I checked an APFT is mandatory and you must pass (if not eventual chapter 13) to be promoted etc. So the next thing you'll say is I do PT on my own, ok does everybody so PT on their own, and do they all pass? The 1SG job among a million is to ensure their Soldiers are trained which includes passing the APFT. And 4 or 5 hours of sleep are you kidding me? There was times I didn't sleep all because of mission. So without out sounding like you're winning, you can forget. The enemy don't care how much sleep you did or did not get SOLDIER UP! And you have plenty plenty plenty of time to sleep maybe between 0000 to 0500 isn't enough (for most it is) but what the heck are you doing after PT until 1600....yeah WHINNING!

Response by 1SG Chad Mcdaniel made Aug 27 at 2021 8:50 PM

1SG Chad Mcdaniel — Fri, 27 Aug 2021 20:50:33 -0400

Jesus I was a 1SG of a medical company in combat and they ran the only clinic on the FOB 24 hours a day (12 hour shifts) so I have some basic knowledge and experience. My Soldiers did PT and managed well. The one thing no one is mentioning is he has over 16 hours of off time. Sure after shift it may be hard to sleep (too worked up to sleep) so do PT it'll help relieve stress and I promise you will sleep well after. I'm 49 now retired I can hardly sleep past 0500 and I go all day but trust if I can get 30 minutes sleep now and then I do it. I wanna call out SOFT ASS ARMY but I have kids in their 20s so I get it and like I tell them you chose your job when the time comes and you wanna change it, it's your choice. Until then suck it up buttercup and get it when you can!

Response by Sgt Ian Osborne made Aug 27 at 2021 10:48 PM

Sgt Ian Osborne — Fri, 27 Aug 2021 22:48:08 -0400

Are you serious? You’re not serious. Please say you’re just trolling. Get some fortitude. I’m embarrassed just reading this utter whining.

Response by SPC John Murray made Aug 28 at 2021 8:38 AM

SPC John Murray — Sat, 28 Aug 2021 08:38:43 -0400

Suck it up buttercup

Response by PO2 Mike Vignapiano made Aug 28 at 2021 3:22 PM

PO2 Mike Vignapiano — Sat, 28 Aug 2021 15:22:19 -0400

Sorry to say but you are whining. Even if you do only get 4 hours of sleep, it should be plenty of rest for PT. My group used to work a 2,2,2 & 80 shift. After our eve shift (1600-2400) we’d , shower, change & go out till the clubs closed. Get breakfast & PT. Yes it was only twice a shift but I was 32 yrs old & did it without fail!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2021 7:58 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Aug 2021 19:58:02 -0400

Regs leave plenty of room to F over Soldiers. Seek resolution from the chain of command. Just start from the bottom and work your way up until you get resolution. Be sure to present alternate, workable options such as your section doing PT separately.
You can also use your operational chain of command to solicit support. A doc might mention casually to the Company Commander that his PR program is adversely affecting the performance of your section.
If you work this issue in good faith and get no resolution, perhaps you can take comfort in being the 50 millionth US Army Soldier to endure a shitty situation. Our sacrifice of our freedoms for the benefit of others is a huge part of why we get respect from civilians.

Response by Sgt Lonebear Greyhawk made Aug 29 at 2021 11:37 AM

Sgt Lonebear Greyhawk — Sun, 29 Aug 2021 11:37:15 -0400

Deal with it or look to another career. Problem solved

Response by SPC Donald Moore made Aug 29 at 2021 12:46 PM

SPC Donald Moore — Sun, 29 Aug 2021 12:46:00 -0400

This post is two years old. I don't know why RP is showing it to me. You probably are not even in the military any more.
From a policy standpoint, you have no leg to stand on. Be where you are told to be, when you are told to be there and quit complaining. The military is only required to let you have TWO hours of sleep. I can't tell you the number of times I got that news when I was in the Infantry. It sucks, and there were times when I had to work with even less sleep than that. You don't need sleep to do PT, sleep after PT.

Response by SSG Bill Moore made Aug 29 at 2021 6:26 PM

SSG Bill Moore — Sun, 29 Aug 2021 18:26:04 -0400

Let me inject more to this... your MOS says laboratory specialist. You're far from the tending physician on duty. Way far. Yet, you snivel that you're being forced to PT on minimum hours. Why? Why aren't you using your CoC about this issue? You're airing business that does not need to be aired, especially on a public platform! To hell with your entitlement and your complaint! You deserve some extra duty at minimum for doing what you did, throwing your CoC under the bus. Totally unsat!
Do you realize that big city fire departments work a 24hr shift? There's at least 3 medics riding the buggy in my city, times that by however are on duty. They work a 24hr shift with very little to no sleep and they have to be spot on for their duty hours. You, have nowhere the responsibility that they have and you can't figure out a sleep schedule and you only work a third of what they do? Maybe you should stop and think about shit like that before you open your mouth and embarrass yourself any further. I think PFC Davis is in order here, SPC Davis.
To those who haven't a clue about civilian duty hours, get a clue. The tending physician, the resident, the surgeons who just left and are now back in the OR 2 hours later, e.t.c
I live it, I see it. I also see those same folks at the gym in the hospital before and/ or after surgery work. There's no excuse that she can make to justify her sniveling.
That is all

Response by Sgt Mark Stonerock made Aug 29 at 2021 8:28 PM

Sgt Mark Stonerock — Sun, 29 Aug 2021 20:28:03 -0400

So nap from 00:30 to 04:30. Go to PT and go back and sleep after morning meal. It’s called military life. We’ve all done the same at some points in our duty.

Response by Sgt Stephen Brown made Aug 29 at 2021 8:42 PM

Sgt Stephen Brown — Sun, 29 Aug 2021 20:42:21 -0400

I remember being told, if you want to be out all night partying, that’s fine. However you better be to work in the morning and on time. I never forgot those words. I’m 69 now and all the years I worked I was never late.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2021 12:32 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 30 Aug 2021 00:32:47 -0400

Had a similar situation. My company got a new 1SG and he was not aware that he had soldiers at the Regiment HQ that worked some strange hours. Subsequently I was called out of ranks by an NCO whom I didn’t work for. I was directed to Tops office and he instructed to sweep and mop the day room. Of course I did as instructed, The 1SG asked me why I wasn’t in formation? I told him that I was Special Duty and in the past three years have never been in a Company formation. He laughed and said why I didn’t tell him that before he had me clean? I laughed and said “You didn’t ask me, Top. After that he poured me a cup of coffee and we had a good conversation about what my job was. Excellent First Sergeant! What I’m getting at is your Company leadership may not know your schedule and you first line in more concerned about himself than you.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2021 1:05 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 30 Aug 2021 01:05:10 -0400

Oh poor baby. You are in the military. You sleep when you have time.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2021 1:08 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 30 Aug 2021 01:08:14 -0400

Why is it alwsys men whinning about these things.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2021 1:52 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 30 Aug 2021 01:52:59 -0400

You’re working against the system because medics are usually the most unfit in a lot of units due to your schedules. However, I do disagree with you reporting after a long shift like that. You can work night shifts for a while but it takes a toll on your system. I lost years off my life staying up for 24/30 hour shifts with a small 15/20 minute nap. You need sleep for your body to recover and sleeping during the day take away from your personal responsibilities. Appointments, running errands, grocery shopping, or whatever.

With today’s technology there’s absolutely no reason why you should have to report after working that shift.

My recommendation is this, buy a good fitness watch, create a PT schedule that is focused around the ACFT or whatever your unit uses to test for fitness. Log your workouts in your fitness app and send screenshots of your workouts with weekly weigh-ins. To take another step is to have more medics from your schedule meet up and do PT together.

I know that a lot of commands are old fashioned with doing PT between 0630 to 0800. But any GOOD leader will understand and work with his people for them to maintain a healthy lifestyle and good motivation/morale.

I hope this helps. RLTW!

Response by SPC John Tacetta made Aug 30 at 2021 6:43 AM

SPC John Tacetta — Mon, 30 Aug 2021 06:43:33 -0400

Came in on this 2 years too late, but that's RP: putting old posts front and center.

0700-1500 = 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep. Terrible shift though, nothings open when you come off.

Surprised your section doesn't hold its own formations and PT. That could be a solution.

Response by SSgt John DelaVina made Aug 30 at 2021 10:58 AM

SSgt John DelaVina — Mon, 30 Aug 2021 10:58:58 -0400

Suck it up buttercup … there were times we just got into the barracks with enough time to suit up in PT gear and go do what was scheduled
Guys would be puking on the run but guess what, we all made it
You go out at night for whatever reason KNOWING you have PT in morning THATS on you …SUCK IT UP !!

Response by Sgt Peter Schlesiona made Aug 30 at 2021 11:56 AM

Sgt Peter Schlesiona — Mon, 30 Aug 2021 11:56:39 -0400

Seems to me that there would be a lot of other people in your overall command that don’t have “shifts” ending at or before 1600. If you are the only person on your shift affected by this, the hospital (like all other units being affected) can do without you for an hour - OR - your boss at the hospital can request an exemption.
I also have to ask - is PT being required every single day or is it only 2 or 3 times per week? You don’t mention that, nor do you mention requesting a formal waiver/exemption.
Finally, I got by on about 4 hours of sleep almost every day for 13 months in Vietnam. Most of that sleep was in one to two hour increments since I also had to take my turn on watch every night. Very often, this might be after being out on an operation, or sweep, or patrol or God knows whatever else during daylight hours.
The military is NOT a 9 to 5 job and you had to know that when you enlisted.
So either get an exemption, or arrange to show up late on PT days, or just stop whining.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2021 1:42 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 30 Aug 2021 13:42:20 -0400

It’s like working out in the afternoon for you. Adjust your schedule. You are whining.

Response by SGT J Dowd made Aug 30 at 2021 7:15 PM

SGT J Dowd — Mon, 30 Aug 2021 19:15:34 -0400

Just be happy you have leadership that pushes you hard to make you a stronger more resilient soldier/person.

Response by Eloisa Hood made Aug 30 at 2021 7:34 PM

Eloisa Hood — Mon, 30 Aug 2021 19:34:49 -0400

There is no excuse for this. 4-5 hours sleep is not enough turn around time. It sounds like you are AMEDD and the Army I was in 20 years ago would never have done this. Unfortunately, there are bad individual commands along with bad commanders. As a hospital troop, you need rest to care for patients. I would go to JAG and ask them to help you formulate a rational complaint with a rational solution. You could suggest that PT be done in the afternoon prior to your shift. If that fails there is the IG. I remember it was very effective when I was in 20 years ago. Last resort is write your elected representative, but unlike the IG, they are removed from the situation and can only write your command a letter. Good luck. I am sorry that you are going thru this. This is the sort of thing that causes good soldiers to leave.

Response by GySgt John Dupnik made Aug 30 at 2021 9:43 PM

GySgt John Dupnik — Mon, 30 Aug 2021 21:43:10 -0400

Better learn to suck it up, because that’s the life we signed up for. The Army isn’t a 8-12 hour job. It’s 24/7. You go when called and all the stress you deal with is part of it. Direct obedience to orders and the PT is to keep your mind and body sharp. The enemy will not wait for you to wake and feel like fighting. The enemy will snuff you out and move on. Your leadership is preparing you to be responsible for the man/ woman to your left or right. You are young and don’t know why they are doing it. It’s a bigger picture than you can handle. Either get with the program or get out so you can sleep your life away. We all went through it and it’s part of discipline!

Response by SPC John Williams made Aug 31 at 2021 7:42 AM

SPC John Williams — Tue, 31 Aug 2021 07:42:23 -0400

What are you doing after PT till you go to work?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2021 11:21 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Aug 2021 11:21:10 -0400

I know this is an extremely old thread, but I'd like to provide some input for anyone that visits this in the future. I understand both sides of the argument. Would it be great to get more than 4 to 5 hours of sleep? Absolutely. The military life will never guarantee that you will get the rest you need throughout your career whether in garrison or in the field/deployment. In some cases you have to accept that, in other cases you might be able to fight it. It depends on a case by case basis.

On my first deployment to Afghanistan, I worked 19 to 20 hours every day for an entire deployment. I was woken up almost every single night, because night shift wouldn't do their jobs. If I wasn't woken up for that, I was woken up due to all the noise of night shift people coming into the barracks to get something they forgot, or to wake someone else up. I did not have time to workout on my 2 to 3 hour off time. So we were allowed to utilize our lunch time to get our PT in - as long as it didn't interfere with the deployment. Soldiers would also find creative ways to do PT while at work. We were still expected to maintain our physical fitness - despite the long hours. This occurred during the "New Army," era. This is not something worth fighting as this affected the entire unit. Unless we had a solution to fix it for everyone, which we did not, we sucked it up.

During this deployment we worked 12 hour shifts, along with several hours worth of other duties. It became worse when our officers decided they should be excused from all other duties, because they were not lower enlisted. So, all lower enlisted got even less sleep due to the officers bowing out. You could say we were all extremely exhausted - and in all honesty had a reason to complain this time. But, someone brought this up to the chain of command at the time, and it was never addressed. However, I doubt someone brought an actual solution to the table. Complaining to a chain of command about not getting enough sleep during deployment falls on deaf ears - because it usually affects everyone. Unfortunately, the lower enlisted received the worst of it, but everyone was tired nonetheless. If an actual solution was provided for everyone (not just an individual), we might have had it better. Unfortunately, this was not the case. It was a learning experience, and in this particular case it could have been fought.

Fast forward to returning from deployment, and my sleep issues never stopped. I live in a very odd situation, where I pretty much am on everyone else's time - even when I'm at home. From early morning to late evening. I have almost zero time to myself. I always have to find creative ways to get PT in, because by the time my night is over it's late and I'm usually exhausted. Once I started school I was lucky if I got 1 to 2 hours a sleep a night. After my first semester was over, I was very rundown, got sick, and had very bad migraines. When I started getting more sleep, my energy came back. I'm doing a bit better in the sleeping department now, but getting great sleep is extremely hard to come by. Especially, when both the Army life and my life at home are demanding and time consuming. That is just the way of life sometimes. It's not always going to be fair, but we can make changes to our schedules that we can control to hopefully stay as healthy possible. Which, is what I had to do - and I have no life outside of work and home.

I 100% understand that a lack of sleep over a long period time is extremely bad for your health. But, 4 to 5 hours isn't too bad. Your body can handle that for awhile. If you're getting 1 to 2 hours a sleep consistently, I would be much more concerned. Now, if you feel you're just not getting enough sleep, you have a few options. Either provide an all encompassing solution to your chain of command where the entire unit benefits from it, or adjust your schedule to where you are getting more sleep. This could mean you take naps during your lunch, and sleep when you have time available. You may not be able to sleep all at once, and you might have to break it up throughout the day. This also means you might not have time to do anything else, other than work, sleep, eat, PT, personal hygiene and repeat. It doesn't sound fun, but sometimes you have to sacrifice your personal time to ensure you get the rest that you need in order to function properly.

As far as you needing to be well rested for a medical occupation in the military, that's not always going to happen. Whether you're in the medical field in the military or in the civilian sector it can and will be a hectic occupation to be in at times. There is no guarantee you'll get the right amount of sleep while you're in the medical field. With that being said, the military in itself is high risk. No matter what job you're in, it can be life or death if you're not on alert. Whether in garrison, in the field, or overseas. It's not just the medical field. Do your best to get as much rest as you can, and if this means not having a life for awhile then you might have to accept that - or find creative ways to work around it.

Response by SPC Tamara Trammell made Aug 31 at 2021 4:51 PM

SPC Tamara Trammell — Tue, 31 Aug 2021 16:51:04 -0400

According to what you've shared; Welcome to night shift! Your new battle buddies are owls and bats! Get yourself a nice sleeping mask to block out the light and embrace the suck!

Response by SSG Martin Fruchtl made Aug 31 at 2021 5:11 PM

SSG Martin Fruchtl — Tue, 31 Aug 2021 17:11:42 -0400

During my deployments, I worked @1600 to 0400 on one tour and 2100 to 0900 on another tour, 6 to 7 days a week. Being a National Guard Personnel Services NCO on AD, it gave me the opportunity to have real time communication back home. I was assigned to the Army BN HQ S1, which allowed them to have me covers nights for them. I never got to do PT with the unit. I did it only own. I also slept from 0600 to 1400. It is a case of adapting if need be, and also leadership leading and caring for Soldiers. I was fortunate to have great leadership. You will get through this. If you have concerns for patient care, stay in your Chain of Command to address that.

Response by SSG Frank Bova made Aug 31 at 2021 7:52 PM

SSG Frank Bova — Tue, 31 Aug 2021 19:52:16 -0400

Nothing to solve. Just do it

Response by SGT Leon Riege made Sep 2 at 2021 7:01 AM

SGT Leon Riege — Thu, 02 Sep 2021 07:01:26 -0400

The first issue we have is you don't think that your 1SG knows what is going on , the second issue we have is that you don't want to make a small adjustment to you schedule to accommodate PT time (most likely you don't schedule your off time at all) well way I see is you can disagree with top (you will not prevail) or you can adapt

Response by SGT Ashraf Hosein made Sep 3 at 2021 5:18 AM

SGT Ashraf Hosein — Fri, 03 Sep 2021 05:18:57 -0400

Really, If you can't handle that, then you really have to think, am I really cut out for this. Maybe it's time to find a new career. I remember having to work late, getting less than 4 hrs sleep and having to do PT at 0530 and going back to work and doing it all over again. Army life is meant to be tough because lives are at stake. My advice, manage your life better and come to know what's important.

Response by PO2 Colleen O'Hara made Sep 3 at 2021 8:15 AM

PO2 Colleen O'Hara — Fri, 03 Sep 2021 08:15:10 -0400

Honestly I say suck it up and be there with your best attitude. That is what gets you noticed and the best attitude brings huge rewards (special assignments and duties). It won't last forever and I'm betting as a junior enlisted you are pretty young, so you can handle it (didn't we used to party all night and work the next day?) LOL, so you will get through this.

Response by SGT Shea McCuen made Sep 5 at 2021 9:20 AM

SGT Shea McCuen — Sun, 05 Sep 2021 09:20:11 -0400

Response by SPC Ralph Fiscus made Sep 5 at 2021 12:35 PM

SPC Ralph Fiscus — Sun, 05 Sep 2021 12:35:32 -0400

Suck it up, buttercup

Response by Cpl Brian Ruby made Sep 13 at 2021 4:36 PM

Cpl Brian Ruby — Mon, 13 Sep 2021 16:36:00 -0400

I hear McDonald's is hiring.

Response by Cpl Brian Ruby made Sep 13 at 2021 4:40 PM

Cpl Brian Ruby — Mon, 13 Sep 2021 16:40:21 -0400

Question: How is working in a hospital, etc. different from getting 2-4 hours sleep in the rain and mud, then handling weapons and explosives? Just a thought.

Response by SGT Jeff Herdebu made Sep 18 at 2021 10:39 AM

SGT Jeff Herdebu — Sat, 18 Sep 2021 10:39:40 -0400

Back in the day we would drink all weekend and roll out for Monday Morning PT in our Banana Suit PT uniforms and and be sent back in the B's in Germany to get our MOPP Gear for MOPP 4 PT. This was late 80's Germany, so we prepped for war constantly. if you couldn't go from the club to MOPP 4 and run you were gonna be Dead if the balloon went up. The Soviet Liaison Missions were following our convoys, the girls at the clubs either wanted an ID card and a ring, or Intel on your unit.
4 hrs sleep downrange used to be a dream.

Response by PO1 Don Hand made Sep 19 at 2021 11:14 PM

PO1 Don Hand — Sun, 19 Sep 2021 23:14:58 -0400

Have you tried not being so much of a pussy?

Response by SSG Russell Busicchia made Sep 20 at 2021 12:51 PM

SSG Russell Busicchia — Mon, 20 Sep 2021 12:51:11 -0400

As I see it you have 2 options. 1 - Attend the 0530 formation and catch your sleep when you can. 2 - Ask if another formation can be held. Since the shift is 16 - 0000 other soldiers must also be affected. Remember, this is the Army.

Response by SFC David Pratt made Sep 20 at 2021 1:40 PM

SFC David Pratt — Mon, 20 Sep 2021 13:40:33 -0400

To CLAB about it isn’t going to help you. Perhaps you should develop a possible solution to the problem and present it to the 1SG (properly utilizing your support channel) for approval. It should be your plan for your physical training coupled with a risk assessment, or a suggested time that is conducive to those with your schedule. Having said that, your 1SG isn’t being mean, he’s ensuring the physical combat readiness of his soft skilled Soldiers. Perhaps you should suck it up and thank him.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2021 8:37 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Sep 2021 20:37:00 -0400

The problem here isn't that a Soldier is being asked to do PT one day with minimal sleep. The problem is that the Soldier is being consistently asked to do PT with minimal sleep. Splitting up sleep shifts negates many of the values of a night of rest, and could cause the Soldier to make medical mistakes.

Response by SPC Rick HUnt made Sep 26 at 2021 1:25 PM

SPC Rick HUnt — Sun, 26 Sep 2021 13:25:29 -0400

The answer is simple Spc. You follow the order. You aren't special, your work shift is just that, so my suggestion be in formation 10min prior. As a 1Sgt he can do that an you have to follow the order. In short nothing you can do will change that except be in formation.

Response by SP5 John Burleson made Sep 26 at 2021 1:53 PM

SP5 John Burleson — Sun, 26 Sep 2021 13:53:35 -0400

Boo-dee-hoo. In an actual deployment the bad guys don't punch a time clock and don't think you should, either. Look at the situation as a training opportunity. Then make it a second training opportunity by calmly explaining to the CO the situation and offer an alternative such as a PT appointment for noon. The CO just wants the numbers to get him a promotion and isn't that worried about what time the numbers get added up.

Response by SPC Rick HUnt made Sep 26 at 2021 2:11 PM

SPC Rick HUnt — Sun, 26 Sep 2021 14:11:23 -0400

Go to PT?

Response by PO1 Todd B. made Sep 26 at 2021 5:53 PM

PO1 Todd B. — Sun, 26 Sep 2021 17:53:56 -0400

Seriously? LOL Sorry but I can't help but laugh. You get 4-5 hours of sleep?? Really?? LOL Good thing you did not join the US Navy and serve on a destroyer at sea or try to move to another field where you actually saw combat in the field, because you would not make it.

You chose to serve. And the clock and the schedule do not revolve around your beauty sleep. They revolve around the US Military and the command that runs it. And PT is a very well known standard in the military to insure all personnel are in shape enough to fight at a moments notice if called.

Sleep is something you can do all you want as a civilian or when you die. There is no such thing as sleep in the US Military. There are only moments of resting your eyes before the next duty calls.

Response by 1SG Rene Davis made Sep 26 at 2021 5:55 PM

1SG Rene Davis — Sun, 26 Sep 2021 17:55:42 -0400

Maybe you should consider another career.

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Sep 26 at 2021 8:41 PM

Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen — Sun, 26 Sep 2021 20:41:23 -0400

If your perimeter was being stormed by the enemy and you only had 4-5 hours of sleep would you complain to the enemy commander?

Response by SP5 Thomas Jameson made Sep 26 at 2021 8:55 PM

SP5 Thomas Jameson — Sun, 26 Sep 2021 20:55:05 -0400

What a whiny, sniveling snowflake. Having worked both rotating 8-hr days/swings/mids and rotating 12hr shifts while in the service, I know it can be done - but rarely in conjunction with pub-crawling.

It's the Army, Mr. Brown. And you have neither a counselor for hurt feelings nor rights.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2021 9:15 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Sep 2021 21:15:18 -0400

Get sleep when you can. Having been an army nurse myself (though never a medic or LPN 91Charlie) I know the meddac enlisted folks get tasked with all kinds of additional duties. Sleep discipline is vital. Force yourself to carve out time and dial way back on coffee and other caffeinated beverages. I would still show up for PT and then either go to sick call or just inform your NCOIC of your fatigue from your 4 to midnight shift. They should have you doing afternoon PT so that you are done and showering up at 1530 in time for your shift. Ordinarily hospitals work folks from 7am to 1500, then 1500 to 2300. But in my case 0700 to 1900 or 1900 to 0700 was the norm. The hospital CSM said PT was an individual responsibility. In general you could ordinarily pair up with a buddy for a run at end of shift. I went to indoor pool at the Brought Gym mainpost Ft Sam.

Response by COL Jeff Williams made Oct 1 at 2021 1:14 PM

COL Jeff Williams — Fri, 01 Oct 2021 13:14:03 -0400

The 1SG noticed only 5 people showed up? How big or small is this company?

Response by 1LT Rich Voss made Oct 22 at 2021 12:17 AM

1LT Rich Voss — Fri, 22 Oct 2021 00:17:10 -0400

Well, Specialist, I've seen this thread in my feed off and on over the past 2 years and am curious what happened. Obviously neither the Commander nor 1SG are no longer "new". I'm certainly not offering any "advice" as I never had command over anyone working in a hospital, my troops were all line company tankers or artillery and this circumstance never happened to them. Heck, over the past 2 years maybe you're not even in the same job or unit.

Response by CW4 Tim Claus made Nov 12 at 2021 7:52 PM

CW4 Tim Claus — Fri, 12 Nov 2021 19:52:09 -0500

Suck it up, cupcake. PT is part of the job, regardless of the time the formations are scheduled. Retired CW4, 39+ years

Response by CW3 Charles Morris made Nov 15 at 2021 3:55 PM

CW3 Charles Morris — Mon, 15 Nov 2021 15:55:58 -0500

I'm in the been there done that, though not with a medical unit.

My last assignment was with a joint DOD Remote Operating Facility (ROF) with government civilians, Army, Navy, Marine, and Air Force personnel working 24/7 rotating shifts. Like yourself, we to had to contend with the demands of our parent and supported organization. If it wasn't PT, then it was military training, and heaven knows what else. If individual PT isn't an option, then best solution, in my experience, was to have PT accomplished at the shift- or platoon-level immediately following your tour of duty.

Set PT schedules that conform to "day shift" schedules, which do not recognize personnel working shift schedules is the "easy" way for unit leadership.

Response by 1SG Michael Anthony Gonzales made Nov 19 at 2021 3:24 PM

1SG Michael Anthony Gonzales — Fri, 19 Nov 2021 15:24:53 -0500

It appears the 1SG and his company definitely have an issue. His company is very specialized and the soldiers need 7-8 hours of sleep to routinely keep their patients alive.

It appears a powwow is needed with his senior NCO’s; PT is an important function of all soldiers. I’m sure a training schedule can be maintained for all shifts. It is possible to structure the 1SG’s PT request (demand). As all soldiers understand, a ‘No-Go’ stamp on your PT card is a decrement to a soldier’s future for promotion, Advanced course, MOS, and personal time.

Any change to any schedule, will not have everyone content but the Command and enlisted can conduct their PT and work standards better with 7-8 hours of sleep. Hooah!

Response by Cpl Andrew Palm made Nov 19 at 2021 5:41 PM

Cpl Andrew Palm — Fri, 19 Nov 2021 17:41:45 -0500

Get your ass out of bed and report to formation. It's not difficult to understand. What is this new generation coming to when they whine and cry about not getting enough sleep in the military. If you are a non-hacker get out and let someone who actually wants to serve, fill your half-assed slot.

Response by SGT Scott Henderson made Nov 19 at 2021 10:18 PM

SGT Scott Henderson — Fri, 19 Nov 2021 22:18:46 -0500

You go to PT and stop playing fuck fuck games at night

Response by CPL Robert Levesque made Nov 20 at 2021 5:52 AM

CPL Robert Levesque — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 05:52:13 -0500

I agree that it is not the ideal situation to work a second shift and then have to show up for PT on 4-5 hours of sleep. But, you volunteered to be in the military and all that has to offer good and bad. I was awarded the combat medical badge during my enlistment and while getting 2 maybe 3 hours of sleep a night if I was lucky. The grunts that cared for were appreciative that Doc was always there for them. Simply put, the enemy doesn’t care how much sleep you get. Training under stress will help you prepare for the stress of combat and will help you manage the stresses you will face later in life after the military. Keep in mind you always have the weekend to catch up on the sleep you are missing during the week.

Response by LTC Earl Driver made Nov 20 at 2021 10:08 AM

LTC Earl Driver — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 10:08:17 -0500

Make an appointment with your ISG. Purpose: to explain your work situation relative to company PT policy. You should be given an opportunity to explain your concerns. Ultimately, your ISG will decide the right course of action. If he/she makes an exception for you, he/she will likely have to consider other exceptions. PT is essential to a Soldier’s ability to perform his/her mission, i.e. unit readiness.

Response by CPL Sean Browning made Nov 20 at 2021 2:35 PM

CPL Sean Browning — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 14:35:42 -0500

I can remember doing pt always on short sleep or going to the field at 0300 for artillery training , you will just have to deal with the short sleep and since you work at the hospital you at least get to return to sleep. if something don't feel right you can make your case known but you still have to deal with the circumstance until it is addressed. as part of the E4 mafia you get stuck with both having to carry out orders and some times having to lead others while doing it.

Response by SPC Cory Thomson made Nov 20 at 2021 7:13 PM

SPC Cory Thomson — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 19:13:42 -0500

man whats it like getting 4-5 hours of sleep? i'm grateful for more than 2 hours of uninterrupted sleep. maybe suggest a mid day pt group for those on assignment to odd hour duty? ask for a different assignment? fall asleep at work? i'm just seeing this is over a year old, dont know why it came up in my feed. hope you figured it out. btw life only gets harder in case you didnt know, add in a wife kids, stress , deployments, etc you get a whole crucible of effed up. seems like yesterday i was a spec 4 in the desert, pulling duty an hour before stand-to, so then i had to do both back to back, then go and perform my regular job. now its been 20 years since i was playing spades in the motor pool on sept 11th and getting told we were deploying. ah where does the time go...

Response by 1SG Paul Ayotte made Nov 20 at 2021 10:44 PM

1SG Paul Ayotte — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 22:44:52 -0500

Main point up Front. Do your required PT.
FIND and read the Reg. This is all part of gaining knowledge. With computers, CD'S, and Smartphones,
its simple. Years ago locating a hard copy Regulation was tedious. Do some research.
Main Point,
Don't use your MOS as an excuse. Do your mandatory PT.
Regards, Paul Ayotte, US ARMY,
1SG, (Retired).

Response by CWO4 Miles Weaver made Nov 20 at 2021 10:53 PM

CWO4 Miles Weaver — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 22:53:00 -0500

Take a nap, go to PT, then you have 9-10 hours before you go back to work.

Response by SGT Joseph Dutton made Nov 20 at 2021 11:47 PM

SGT Joseph Dutton — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 23:47:59 -0500

I think I responded to this before or it maybe on someone else posting. Managing your time is no different than managing your finances. Look at it like this! If you had a 9 to 5 work schedule you would be up for at least 8 hours after work before going to bed. The day is in 24 hours with 3, 8 hour increments. 8 for work, 8 for sleep & 8 for awake. Some times you have to rob time from others to pay extra time for others. Maybe your section can request a meeting with the Commander to come a alternative that everyone agrees to. Please use Chain of Command to do this request.

Response by COL Jerry C. made Nov 21 at 2021 12:59 AM

COL Jerry C. — Sun, 21 Nov 2021 00:59:59 -0500

You have a posted training schedule and a duty assignment. The TNGSCHD is not optional. Tell your NCOIC of the TNG requirements. The Onus is on leadership to deconflict. However, I think you will find that they will point out that you have little to no reason to not make the 0600 PT formation. Keep in mind it is a military organization but your own time management is crucial.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 21 at 2021 3:04 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 Nov 2021 03:04:55 -0500

It's sad to me that you as junior enlisted even have to post this. You should speak with your supervisor and the PSG about your concerns. If you work for NCOs that know the shift time and still can't/won't speak smartly as to account for their Soldiers then something is missing here. There is an inherent risk involved in this shift time anyway. Add in the fact that just because the shift is supposed to end at 0000 when has shift turnover ever been exact. Now take in to account the travel time for Soldier to get home. Regardless of where that may be. Below is a timeline that I could very well imagine:

0005: completed handoff
0010-0015: gathered bags and back to the car
barracks *0030: parked and in the room
off post *0045: back home and inside
(I cant estimate the time it would take each person to get ready but lets just says everyone is in bed by 0100)
0430: wake up, prep bag/bags, change
0450: leave because your average travel time is 30 minutes
0520: arrive for formation

This timeline is absolutely madness to me. I find it ridiculous that a 1SG or any leadership for that matter would find this timeline acceptable. Many have already said it but this isnt about deployment. It's about Soldiers caring for other service members, families, and veterans.

For those of you that keep saying you should suck it up or some variation of it.. You must have been any an absolutely miserable person to work for.

FYI, see if the MTF has a policy on shift duty.

Response by Cpl Nicholas Crider made Nov 21 at 2021 12:52 PM

Cpl Nicholas Crider — Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:52:25 -0500

... learn to love the suck. Even post service, my entire life runs on 4/5 hours of sleep. You'll adjust.

Response by CPL Louie Stanfield made Nov 21 at 2021 12:52 PM

CPL Louie Stanfield — Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:52:29 -0500

Embrace the suck.

Response by TSgt John Brody made Nov 21 at 2021 2:08 PM

TSgt John Brody — Sun, 21 Nov 2021 14:08:53 -0500

This is a classic example of so-called 'leadership' being disconnected from reality. Shift work is VERY detrimental to health and morale.
Wouldn't it be better to either 1) make PT part of the shift or 2) have the Soldier log their own PT?
I mean, we do trust them to PT right?

Response by Sgt Jerry Genesio made Nov 21 at 2021 2:09 PM

Sgt Jerry Genesio — Sun, 21 Nov 2021 14:09:37 -0500

Ashley - On the battlefield, you may be told to be at a point 20 miles away to help with the wounded who are trying to hold the line. You may have had no sleep and don't believe you can possibly comply, but because of the training you're receiving today, you will comply.

Response by PO3 Donovan Kosse made Nov 21 at 2021 2:54 PM

PO3 Donovan Kosse — Sun, 21 Nov 2021 14:54:09 -0500

33 hours is the most time I went without sleep.. 6 hrs. on and 6 off on the gun line in Viet Nam. With
refueling and rearming in my spare time. Lucky if we had time to eat....

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 21 at 2021 3:22 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 Nov 2021 15:22:06 -0500

I worked have worked swing shift 1600-0000. We conducted PT as shifts. My company at the time had three different shifts and every shift would just do pt 1.5hr before their work time. Not sure if your shift already does that but that's not right that you should have to do pt 5.5hrs after work. Having 0000-0500 for personal time doesn't work because nothing is open at that time, can't go to appointments or the store. So your sleep schedule will constantly get messed up. This problem is not black and white but so many are looking at this problem in this thread that way. Sure embrace the suck and shut up, but when the mission and PERFORMANCE OF THE MISSION should come first and this COC is only worried how their formation looks in the morning is a problem. The problem is the Army is everyone is always worried about how something looks. How about we use all these initiatives the army keeps putting out about quality of life for soliders and "This is my Squad" and take care of this solider and help him/her instead of telling them to get over it. When someone commits suicide because of stuff like this how would you feel if you told them to get over it. So many people on Rally point are so quick to criticize and dismiss issues it's embarrassing that this is the community response people get for asking for help.

Response by SPC Robert Bobo made Nov 21 at 2021 3:40 PM

SPC Robert Bobo — Sun, 21 Nov 2021 15:40:13 -0500

Wow, things have changed, less than 8 hours sleep was the norm, we quickly adjusted to 4-6 hrs sleep, PT was a requirement M-F at 0500 unless you were in field, in the field it was 12 to 16 hr days 7 days a week until mission was complete

Response by SP5 Tom Flaherty made Nov 22 at 2021 8:51 AM

SP5 Tom Flaherty — Mon, 22 Nov 2021 08:51:21 -0500

without a proposed workable solution you are whining. alter your personal schedule to allow you to attend PT. Or, possibly get others on the same schedule and set up an alternate acceptable PT. So why not your entire shift with PT at 1430 and then clean up and be at work at 1600. Adjust your preferences to meet the need of the organization. Right now you sound like you want to be exempt from PT. Take some responsibility and leadership to work through this one, it is part of growing.

Response by MAJ Steve Warnerski made Nov 22 at 2021 8:54 AM

MAJ Steve Warnerski — Mon, 22 Nov 2021 08:54:06 -0500

On duty until 0000 / 2400, you shouldn't be required to be at PT at 0530. Suggest you Have your Section Chief (NCO) ask the 1SGT if your section can do PT at 1400? If that doesn't work, ask the first officer in your chain the same thing. If ALL else fails, work your way up the chain; as a final resort approach the IG. WHATEVER you do - be where you are TOLD to be in the right uniform with a good attitude...even if the whole thing Sucketh.

Response by SFC Tracy Scott made Nov 22 at 2021 8:57 AM

SFC Tracy Scott — Mon, 22 Nov 2021 08:57:18 -0500

I'll put it to you in this manner. You signed a contract, you agreed to the terms of that contract, first and foremost, you have an obligation to that contract. I don't give to shit and a flying squirrel if you have had 1 hour or 18 hours of sleep, if you are told to report for PT your ass had better be at PT with your smile Richard Happy face on ( Period) By the way, YES it sounds like you are Whining. Now if you don't like the terms of the contract that you sign and you want to live the civilian lifestyle, then get out of the military.

Response by SFC Tracy Scott made Nov 22 at 2021 9:11 AM

SFC Tracy Scott — Mon, 22 Nov 2021 09:11:41 -0500

Look, I'm going to put it to you bluntly. You signed a contract, You agreed to the terms of that contract, thus You adhere to that contract. Now, I don't give a shit and two flying squirrels about how you feel or about your whining crying little ass. Now, If you are told, to report to PT by your 1sg. Then you damn well had better be standing tall information with your little Happy Richard smiling face on ready to do PT. The alternative being. The MP's show up, take you into custody for failure to report, and guess what you're world just got extremely ugly, with a great deal less on in that paycheck.

Response by SGT Kenneth Potts made Nov 22 at 2021 12:10 PM

SGT Kenneth Potts — Mon, 22 Nov 2021 12:10:49 -0500

You suck it up and go to PT. You sacrifice sleep when it's for something you want to do.

Response by SSG Bill McCoy made Nov 22 at 2021 2:04 PM

SSG Bill McCoy — Mon, 22 Nov 2021 14:04:53 -0500

Although the original post was awhile back, I'll comment.
I'd hate that too, but as an MP we had no choice most of the time. In your case, it seems you are a medic; specifically a lab technician. An argument could be made about a lack of sleep affecting the absolute necessity of quality work, depending on what kind of lab work you actually do.
Perhaps the 1SG/CO would be more in tune with your concerns, IF you're PT score is exceptional and your appearance is within height/weight standards. It's also possible that they might consider a time for PT for those in a similar shift situation, led by a SL or PSG - an hour or two BEFORE 1600.

Response by PO3 Michael MacKay made Nov 22 at 2021 3:46 PM

PO3 Michael MacKay — Mon, 22 Nov 2021 15:46:09 -0500

Sleep faster

Response by SPC David Young made Nov 22 at 2021 4:23 PM

SPC David Young — Mon, 22 Nov 2021 16:23:30 -0500

You may not like it and you may not think it's fair but it's a lawful order from a superior. That means you need to make the adjustments, not the 1ST Sergeant. It may not be the answer you want but it's the truth.

Response by Cpl Rafael Lara made Nov 22 at 2021 4:35 PM

Cpl Rafael Lara — Mon, 22 Nov 2021 16:35:50 -0500

Are you serious?! How bout you stop crying like a little girl and suck it up soldier? SMH, you wouldn't have lasted 30 seconds in the Corps!

Response by CPT Pedro Rivera made Nov 24 at 2021 1:28 PM

CPT Pedro Rivera — Wed, 24 Nov 2021 13:28:59 -0500

It seems like an odd decision from your command. I was never in the med service, but my dad was for 20+ years and I never recall them having mandatory PT for hospital staff as long as they were keeping their PT scores up. Now, if those scores were going down or if Soldiers are failing it then I can understand the 1SG wanting to do something about it. Considering the nature of the work he could do a 1700 formation instead of a 1600 formation so the Soldiers can get more sleep, which is vital for those involved in patient care. My recommendation depends on what you do at the hospital. If you're not involved in patient care then I'd say suck it up. If you're handling patients or their files then accommodations should be made to avoid errors in care. I'm pretty sure there is no regulation you can go pointing to. At the end of the day you're Soldiers and are expected to suck it up and drive on. If you truly believe that it will affect the safety of the patients though then you're obligated to bring it up the chain of command, not to get out of PT, but to get a time for you and those on your shift to be able to do PT and not put patients at risk. As far as getting more sleep, my wife is a nurse and she works 12 hour shifts overnight as a civilian and she is expected to figure out her time management on her off time. You're a Soldier so do the same.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2021 3:38 PM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Nov 2021 15:38:45 -0500

I would find out how many personnel have the 1600-0000 shift and have a PT schedule of accommodate their work schedule.

Response by CSM Ralph Hernandez made Nov 25 at 2021 1:25 PM

CSM Ralph Hernandez — Thu, 25 Nov 2021 13:25:12 -0500

Well to begin with, you are whining! What you need to do is get with program and Soldier up! Just to think that you are tomorrows Leader and can’t do something as little as doing PT for one hour. If I were your First Leader I would Counsel the whole squad on job and responsibilities! why don’t you write a Letter to General Milley, he may excuse you from PT!

Response by LTC Philip Marlowe made Nov 25 at 2021 4:48 PM

LTC Philip Marlowe — Thu, 25 Nov 2021 16:48:11 -0500

Is the HQ company separate from the Hospital operation? I assume you're in a Headquarters & Headquarters Company so even the HOSPITAL COMMANDER and all the doctors NOT working are making the PT, right - because ALL PERSONNEL irrespective of RANK are assigned to the HQ Company, so it only stands to reason the FSG's POLICY requires EVERYONE to make one of his sessions and if they're not, then you have an issue. Regardless, if you feel strongly about your issue, the challenge is to get your issue before the HQ Company Commander so they may have the opportunity to make a decision regarding the FSG's policy. Meanwhile I would also present my issue to my HOSPITAL chain of command starting with my immediate supervisor. I would put my issue with supporting FACTS and assumptions together and I certainly wouldn't be emotional about it.

Response by CH (CPT) Jerry McGowin made Nov 25 at 2021 8:51 PM

CH (CPT) Jerry McGowin — Thu, 25 Nov 2021 20:51:37 -0500

This is difficult to offer advice on. I have been deployed to a combat zone and for 11 months never really had a night of sleep, You sleep when you can. On the other side safe and secure on an American military base this makes no sense to me. Now if the lack of sleep is due to club hopping shame on you. But if you were on duty, then this is nuts.

Response by SSG Roland Shelton made Nov 26 at 2021 12:11 AM

SSG Roland Shelton — Fri, 26 Nov 2021 00:11:21 -0500

Go to PT.

Response by SPC Roger D. Pemberton Jr. made Nov 26 at 2021 4:51 AM

SPC Roger D. Pemberton Jr. — Fri, 26 Nov 2021 04:51:43 -0500

Guess what cupcake? Be glad you are only having to do PT on 4-5 hours of straight sleep. Regs use to state when I was in that you were suppose to be given 4-6 hours sleep but not consecutive. My advice is stop bitching, grow up, and take on the challenges you said you would.

Response by LtCol Michael Kies made Nov 26 at 2021 9:52 AM

LtCol Michael Kies — Fri, 26 Nov 2021 09:52:10 -0500

I’ve read a lot of answers here that say “suck it up.” Those are the wrong answers. The negative effect of sleep deprivation on human performance is well documented. It results in airplane crashes, Ship crashes, car accidents, etc. It’s simply not a thing you can “train for” by doing repeatedly. Our term in the Marine Corps was “training to bleed.” There’s no training or readiness benefit by asking soldiers to tolerate interrupted and abnormal sleep patterns. In an aviation unit, it wouldn’t be tolerated by anyone with flight duties.

I would personally want and extra extra sustained high performance from soldiers in a medical unit and I wouldn’t get it by depriving them of restful sleep. When we deploy, of course, things are still French different, but our junior members always step up and get the job done. Take it up the chain and see if you can get the policy adjusted so that you get your PT AND your rest.

Response by MAJ Bob Firth made Nov 26 at 2021 2:12 PM

MAJ Bob Firth — Fri, 26 Nov 2021 14:12:33 -0500

Sounds like your previous chain of command was lax and failed to ensure Soldiers were doing PT. That was their fault, not yours. I would recommend being at morning PT every day and not bitching. The Commander and 1SG will notice you are doing PT. They will be much more likely to be open to being flexible in PT hours. Your Platoon Leader and Platoon Sergeant is responsible for raising this issue with the command team. Suck it up for now and demonstrate you are doing what is asked. When the time is right PSG and PL should approach CO and 1SG.

Response by CPL Konelio Mulitauaopele made Nov 26 at 2021 7:26 PM

CPL Konelio Mulitauaopele — Fri, 26 Nov 2021 19:26:24 -0500

You get your ass to formation unless you want an Article 15. Learn to manage your time. I used to go out and party and get back to the barracks at 2am and sleep until 0430 and in formation ready to do PT at 0500. Threw up all my alcohol during the run by being a road guard and running ahead of the formation to do so. Toughen up a bit. Its the military! NOT college.

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 28 at 2021 5:28 PM

Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 28 Nov 2021 17:28:43 -0500

How do you solve this effectively and professionally? You go to PT on 5 hours of sleep! I haven't slept more than 3 or 4 hours in a single night since my daughter passed away in 2014.

If I can go 7+ years on less than 4 hours of sleep EVERY NIGHT, you can do it too. Quit being a princess. Suck it up and be a responsible soldier and adult.

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 28 at 2021 10:34 PM

CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 28 Nov 2021 22:34:53 -0500

Embrace the suck

Response by CPL Angelika Guilbe made Nov 30 at 2021 1:42 PM

CPL Angelika Guilbe — Tue, 30 Nov 2021 13:42:15 -0500

Hate to break it to you. But if your looking for ethics you wont find much of it in the military unless your airforce. We used to go party until 5 am be back in time to have PT and then when PT ended take a shower and nap until the next formation. Honestly if you schedule things right you can find that you will get sleep while getting work done. However if you have kids, that's different. Being deployed, good luck with sleep. You wont get much of it. Theose 4 or 5 hours you get now, you will be gratefulf if you get deployed. Because you will eventually have to do 24hr duty where you can't sleep at all.

Response by CPL Angelika Guilbe made Nov 30 at 2021 1:45 PM

CPL Angelika Guilbe — Tue, 30 Nov 2021 13:45:48 -0500

However! If it is an issue be ause it could cause harm to patients by not receiving rest, be mindful on how you approach the issue. No matter how much we know and think something is right, if we dont approach the issue properly you could be asking for consequences you didnt want. Always us your chain of comand

Response by CW2 Gale Dorman made Dec 3 at 2021 6:21 PM

CW2 Gale Dorman — Fri, 03 Dec 2021 18:21:11 -0500

Having been in both the position as a private, a SFC and a Warrant Officer. When we join what ever service we joined we decided to follow the rules of the road. Over the years, twenty in fact, I lead PT, Ran around the Battalion with the flag and many times with only a very few hours of sleep. But that doesn't make everything right! If you are sick, if you absolutely cannot handle PT at the prescribed time. talk to your squad leader, your Platoon Sgt, your First Sgt, Your Commander. Why? Each will explain to you why you should attend the training at the times they have dictated. They are preparing you for "WAR" be it in peace time or in a combat zone! If you are not physically capable then possibly having a physical to identify possible medical issues and if nothing is found, ask for a transfer, a change in MOS, but beware that next move could be even more stressful. What you sow you will reap! Maybe not a promotion, or get the next training assignment. Why because you have not proved you are willing to master what is needed of you for the job that YOU selected!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2021 11:48 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Dec 2021 23:48:53 -0500

If you're a medical you need PT more than everyone and even a more demanding PT regime even after PT an hour just isn't enough these days. I've been in the army and now national guard for a total of 18 years 6 months. Let me tell you something , in the guard we hardly do much PT and when it came time to take the physical fitness test it showed with not just the old timers (me being one) but also the young Gung ho soldiers who have aced the test in the past. Now with the ACFT on the horizon with 6 events NOT 3 it's even more demanding! With a minimum of 60 per event you need a 360 to pass with a max of 600 points and I got to tell you I see it kicking a lot of people's ass. Remember you signed the dotted line to be there and follow what your leadership appointed over you tell you to do so long as it's not breaking codes and regs you really can't do much. And I will tell you this also the military ONLY have to by regulation give you 4 hours of mandatory hours of sleep and they don't have to technically give it all to you at once be thankful you get the 4-5 just suck it up and adjust your hours you're not on any duty and sleep. Put down the remote and gaming console or computer and close those eyes. You get the weekend off anyways.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2021 12:04 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Dec 2021 00:04:32 -0500

As a medic you need the physical fitness and probably even more stringent form of PT additionally at your own time. One hour just isn't enough. What are you going to do when you can't help your battle lift a injured soldier off the ground that can weigh as much as 250-300?? These guys exist and some are all muscle. You need more sleep? Put that phone away. Put that laptop away. Put away that TV. Put away that gaming console or gaming tower. Reserve fun time for Friday night and weekend and for God sakes don't go sleeping at 3 a.m. Monday morning because you need those sleep hours and the work week starts again on Monday morning. And also you're going to hate this but by regulation they only have to give you 4 hours sleep and it doesn't have to all be at one go. If you're a dirtbag soldier the leadership can actually split your 4 hours into one hour every 6 hours I've seen it done
. You don't want that to happen trust me. Like I said save the fun for the weekend.

Response by MSgt Jim Jackson made Dec 12 at 2021 5:38 PM

MSgt Jim Jackson — Sun, 12 Dec 2021 17:38:57 -0500

Times have certainly changed. When I was given an order, although I might not have liked it, I followed through. As an enlisted Marine going through Infantry Training Regiment in January and February of 1965 at Camp Geiger, Camp Lejeune, North Carolina I got 2-3 hours of sack time every day for over 30 days straight. I was lucky to get that due to raids in our barracks by Force Recon 2 or 3 times a week. As far as I can tell these conditions are common at a FOB.

Response by SPC Patrick Whited made Dec 21 at 2021 6:43 PM

SPC Patrick Whited — Tue, 21 Dec 2021 18:43:59 -0500

There’s that new generation/new army they’re talking about always.

Response by Jerry Rivas made Dec 21 at 2021 8:27 PM

Jerry Rivas — Tue, 21 Dec 2021 20:27:51 -0500

Sleep for a while.....do PT.....Go back to bed....WTF is the problem? Your mommy not doing your thinking anymore? Go to sick call and tell them your vaginitis is acting up.

Response by SFC Ron Shaffer made Dec 23 at 2021 10:17 AM

SFC Ron Shaffer — Thu, 23 Dec 2021 10:17:38 -0500

The army only requires you to have 4 hours of sleep. Seeing you are not like a normal soldier and am working a civilian type shift he should allow you to have a formation at 1330 for accountability and PT, and at work at 1600.

Response by SSG Ralph Watkins made Dec 23 at 2021 1:45 PM

SSG Ralph Watkins — Thu, 23 Dec 2021 13:45:52 -0500

If you have certain jobs in the Army, life isn't always fair. I am an old SIGINT type. We worked rotating shifts. Working the midnight shift was bad. Twice a year we took our APFT. Oh joy, once after a mid & then 6 months later, maybe one in the late afternoon there were red flag warning over heat & humidity. Many times we would do our annual weapons qualification after working a midnight shift. Yeah, we weren't shooting at no 0830 hrs either. We got to the range straight from work & then had to wait until afternoon to shoot. No sleeping either. Did it suck? Oh yeah. Was it fair? No. But we sucked it up & drove on.

Response by SSG Robert Peterson made Dec 23 at 2021 2:05 PM

SSG Robert Peterson — Thu, 23 Dec 2021 14:05:04 -0500

Is this a satire question

Response by SGT Shaun Zilinski made Dec 23 at 2021 3:36 PM

SGT Shaun Zilinski — Thu, 23 Dec 2021 15:36:37 -0500

Can you ask your manager , NCOIC for a possible schedule change to accommodate your TOPs mandate?

Response by 1SG Alan Boggs made Dec 23 at 2021 3:48 PM

1SG Alan Boggs — Thu, 23 Dec 2021 15:48:39 -0500

I would love to hear the soldiers PSGs narrative. Most good E7s would step up to the plate and fix this with the 1SG unless there was an issue with this soldiers ht/wt and or PT score. Deliberately disrupting any soldiers sleep schedule for no compelling reason is bad leadership. Period. As was mentioned already, if you have never worked the off shift continuously, you dont understand the effect it has on a person. I would make a plan for these off shift soldiers and submit it to the 1SG who, if he or she is worth a damn, would attempt to influence the CMDR.

Response by COL Robert Gaudsmith made Dec 23 at 2021 5:06 PM

COL Robert Gaudsmith — Thu, 23 Dec 2021 17:06:41 -0500

Had to do a PT test the day after everyone was “encouraged “ to give blood. Run times? Not so much.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2021 5:54 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Dec 2021 17:54:00 -0500

I presume this question is posted as a Christmas joke, right?

Response by SGT Mike Soter made Dec 23 at 2021 9:29 PM

SGT Mike Soter — Thu, 23 Dec 2021 21:29:26 -0500

How do you solve it? You suck it up and do PT. I've had plenty of no sleep PT sessions when I was in. I mean literally out of my street clothes and into my PT gear.

Response by SFC J. K. made Dec 23 at 2021 11:02 PM

SFC J. K. — Thu, 23 Dec 2021 23:02:46 -0500

Did you bring up the schedule conflict? If not, go do PT.

Response by CPT Richard Fematt made Dec 24 at 2021 2:25 AM

CPT Richard Fematt — Fri, 24 Dec 2021 02:25:10 -0500

You got 4-5 hours of sleep and are complaining of having to be at PT? I remember having to do PT at 0530 everyday while in the Corps, granted you work the night shift and should be able to be excused from PT. Until then show up for PT or suffer the consequences

Response by SFC Bob Coon made Dec 24 at 2021 12:44 PM

SFC Bob Coon — Fri, 24 Dec 2021 12:44:54 -0500

What’ve the 1SG should have the afternoon PT session conducted 1400-1500 that would give the 1600 to midnight shift more of a solid schedule. But I’m retired and in my day we would have just embraced the suck. I never did think PT after working all day was very effective anyhow Soldiers wouldn’t it there all better to do it before work call.

Response by SSG Dale London made Dec 24 at 2021 2:24 PM

SSG Dale London — Fri, 24 Dec 2021 14:24:37 -0500

Are you perhaps one of those poor deluded souls who believes the Army is a 9-5 job where your NCO's care about you being butt-hurt? Puhleez!
I worked 12 hour shifts on a 6 on/3 off rota and if my break day fell on a weekday I was still expected to show up for either the morning or the afternoon PT formation.
Not only did I frequently not get enough sleep, I had to do PT on my days off.
I'll say it again: Puhleez!

Response by CPL Dean Alven made Dec 24 at 2021 7:05 PM

CPL Dean Alven — Fri, 24 Dec 2021 19:05:50 -0500

Honestly if you’re a medic and working inside of a hospital clinic during 1600 to 0 hours you can get with your brigade surgeon or your PA to make an exception with your first sergeant because your PA outranks your first sergeant and as a clinic medic you fall directly underneath your PA as your first line. That’s how it was for me at least and I just went to my PA and everything was a okay. Try that out.

Response by CPL Dean Alven made Dec 24 at 2021 7:06 PM

CPL Dean Alven — Fri, 24 Dec 2021 19:06:02 -0500

Other than that welcome to the military

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 24 at 2021 10:15 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Dec 2021 22:15:32 -0500

Reading some of these comments just makes me shake my head. We get it. You're all heroes for getting by on so little sleep and OP is just whiny and weak right? Get over yourselves. Getting so little sleep consistently for a long period of time is terrible for your health and commands should be working to help Soldiers balance sleep with duty rather than forcing overly rigid schedules on them. Proper sleep is just as important to fitness as working out and eating right. Not to mention that this Soldier works in healthcare. When you all go to seek medical care, would you rather be in the hands of someone who is healthy and well rested, or an overworked, sleep deprived Soldier?

Response by SSG Robert Velasco made Dec 25 at 2021 12:47 AM

SSG Robert Velasco — Sat, 25 Dec 2021 00:47:17 -0500

There's no sleep if you're in combat arms and why should you be an exception and allowed to get more sleep than everyone else? If you cant hang,don't reenlist!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 25 at 2021 9:46 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Dec 2021 09:46:24 -0500

7 hours of non-consecutive (meaning 3hours here 4 hours there) of rest is within regulations, according to
FM7-22 (and is a Field Manual, not a regulation). Better solution:Get out of the Army this is not for you, army don’t need you. Become a business owner where you don’t have a boss and can wake up whenever you want, that’s if your clients and attention to the business let’s you. You say you work in a hospital? I know civilian nurses who work 12 hours a day and commute 1hour to work 1hour back. 10 left outside work with 2 hour to cook/clean 2 to spend with the family and 2 to wake up and commute, with 4 hours to sleep on a lucky week, there’s your 24hour day. Oh! And there’s no regulation, you either show to work or get fired (too easy no art.15 involved). Good luck in life!

Response by SGT Tong Yi made Dec 25 at 2021 12:38 PM

SGT Tong Yi — Sat, 25 Dec 2021 12:38:40 -0500

why can't you sleep after PT? that's what we had to do in Afghanistan for a white year...

Response by SGT Zander Allison made Dec 25 at 2021 1:24 PM

SGT Zander Allison — Sat, 25 Dec 2021 13:24:08 -0500

To make it right, show up to PT, have breakfast, and go back to bed.

Response by SGT Erick Holmes made Dec 25 at 2021 2:22 PM

SGT Erick Holmes — Sat, 25 Dec 2021 14:22:25 -0500

Start with your chain of command and then go from there

Response by SFC Wanda Estes made Dec 25 at 2021 3:01 PM

SFC Wanda Estes — Sat, 25 Dec 2021 15:01:54 -0500

Talk to your supervisor about this problem use your chain of command. Let your chain a command talk to the first sergeant. I can remember staying out all night long no sleep and having to be in PT formation. That was a personal choice of mine. However yours is a work related situation go to your chain command. You need sleep and you need physical training too. Good luck.

Response by SFC Wanda Estes made Dec 25 at 2021 3:08 PM

SFC Wanda Estes — Sat, 25 Dec 2021 15:08:26 -0500

Hello

Response by SFC Wanda Estes made Dec 25 at 2021 3:10 PM

SFC Wanda Estes — Sat, 25 Dec 2021 15:10:46 -0500

You need to go to your supervisor if it's a problem with sleep. Have your supervisor go to your first sergeant and speak with your first sergeant. Use your chain of command. Go to your squad leader or your platoon leader or your first line supervisor at work. One thing a colonel told me a long time ago. Little Indians don't fight big wars. Have your supervisor fight that war for you. If it's in fact a sleep issue the supervisor can explain. If it's a time management issue then your supervisor can help you manage your time. I can remember staying up all night long with no sleep and having to go to PT formation. However that was my choice to stay out all night It wasn't because of work. Good luck

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 25 at 2021 5:25 PM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Dec 2021 17:25:39 -0500

Could always ask him to make an exception, otherwise, gonna have to just deal with it.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 25 at 2021 5:25 PM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Dec 2021 17:25:55 -0500

Could always ask him to make an exception, otherwise, gonna have to just deal with it.

Response by SSG Dr. John Bell, PhD. made Dec 25 at 2021 8:48 PM

SSG Dr. John Bell, PhD. — Sat, 25 Dec 2021 20:48:01 -0500

Those of us before you have gone thru the same thing. Plus you were not drafted!

Response by SPC Geoffrey Jenkins made Dec 26 at 2021 7:21 AM

SPC Geoffrey Jenkins — Sun, 26 Dec 2021 07:21:40 -0500

There's nothing that is wrong with the PT plan,believe me your body will adjust to the new demands in physical endurance,when I was in Iraq we where providing security to our supply trucks going base to base and sometimes our missions would go into extra innings because of roadside bombs and unforeseen delays that would last up to 13hrs,on one occasion we just returned to the FOB with no sleep and still managed to do PT in the morning with no ill effects,you will have to train and adapt and show some leadership to the soldiers under you and stop complaining or find another career.

Response by PO2 Jay Stotler made Dec 26 at 2021 8:39 AM

PO2 Jay Stotler — Sun, 26 Dec 2021 08:39:21 -0500

You are in the military time of day means nothing. I was in the coast guard and many time we would go 36 to 48 hours without sleep. My last duty day was the night Eastern Air Lines put an L1011 down in the Florida Everglades were were up all night fueling helos and getting blankets and anything else asked for , no one said it’s 10:00 time for bed. That’s part of your job being ready 24. 7 no mater what.
This is not a job you can say I don’t feel good because the rest of your group count on you doing your part.

Response by SFC Stanley Wood made Dec 26 at 2021 10:40 AM

SFC Stanley Wood — Sun, 26 Dec 2021 10:40:34 -0500

I never knew what an 8 hour work day was like as an MP. Normally 12-16+ a day. Suck it up buttercup!

Response by SGT Jim Ramge, MBA made Dec 26 at 2021 12:35 PM

SGT Jim Ramge, MBA — Sun, 26 Dec 2021 12:35:57 -0500

In this particular case (specifically), you have an open door policy with your CSM. Am sure s/he would ensure you get the proper amount of sleep necessary - and help mitigate the utilization of the other 16-hrs of your day! They have special slots set aside on their daily calendar for these types of issues…
Secondly, I would consider reaching out to your local union representative at your voting station upon receiving your mail-in ballot. Only they can deal with these things at the highest of levels!
Third, consider speaking to the Units Fitness Trainer (Sometimes known as an MFT - they used to have a patch they wear) within your organization and make them sit-down and re-evaluate FM 7-22 with your Command - it’s your right as a soldier. Don’t tell them any different, it’s your sleep - Don’t lose out on any more of it!
Lastly, get with your Supply NCO and request some 8540-00-281-8360 for your Section NCO or Squad Leader. It’s just due diligence on your part - they will appreciate your effort!
All the best…

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Dec 26 at 2021 1:07 PM

1SG James Kelly — Sun, 26 Dec 2021 13:07:44 -0500

Has anyone talked to the 1SG?

Response by SFC Scott Parkhurst made Dec 26 at 2021 1:36 PM

SFC Scott Parkhurst — Sun, 26 Dec 2021 13:36:34 -0500

You know you joined the military right? You adapt and overcome… And also those who stay out all night and party then do PT is on them… but in your case, yes, perhaps there should “maybe” be a time slot change. But you have to remember, there isn’t one during war time and this is good “practice”… I was glad we went through rough times before the real thing… as it made us much more better prepared.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 26 at 2021 1:43 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Dec 2021 13:43:27 -0500

Read up on FM 7-22, recommend a second pt formation for people on your shift, and volunteer to lead the sessions yourself.

Response by SSG John Parmarter made Dec 26 at 2021 2:03 PM

SSG John Parmarter — Sun, 26 Dec 2021 14:03:36 -0500

Buck up and do PT,pansy,You didn't join the Air Force!

Response by LCpl Kenneth Heath made Dec 26 at 2021 2:44 PM

LCpl Kenneth Heath — Sun, 26 Dec 2021 14:44:15 -0500

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pussy!

Response by PO1 Mark Dozier made Dec 26 at 2021 7:34 PM

PO1 Mark Dozier — Sun, 26 Dec 2021 19:34:24 -0500

suck it up buttercup. work 16 hour days and still do pt then ypu can complain.

Response by PO2 Christopher Morehouse made Dec 27 at 2021 9:04 AM

PO2 Christopher Morehouse — Mon, 27 Dec 2021 09:04:08 -0500

I realize this is an old post, but I'm surprised and how many "Suck it up, buttercup" responses there are here. What the OP has highlighted is a bad command decision and she would like to know how she can bring it to the attention of her superiors, who may not realize the effect it has on her particular section, in a way that is constructive. What does rolling with it teach her as a future leader? If there is a reason for the two times, then her NCO should give it to her straight. Perhaps she should in the end suck it up, but she should feel comfortable bringing what she sees as a problem for her section to their attention.

For those who don't see it as a problem, I ask: What is the benefit of making a whole hospital section do PT 5.5 hours after they end their shift? This would be akin to the command requiring PT at 2230 for those working a standard day shift. I imagine there is also a 0000 to 0800 shift as well, which would be similar in effect, if not worse. What sense does it make? There is a time and a place for pushing your people to perform on reduced sleep for limited durations. But the only apparent reason for doing so here is because they want PT do be done at one of two time slots? And with no end in sight? Even if the section was failing to keep up physical regs on their own, this would not make sense. Have the night shifts PT as a section before or after their shift, just like what the command is offering everyone else. If they can't trust the NCO's of that section to do that, then the command has bigger problems than attending PT.

Response by CW3 Matt Hicklin made Dec 27 at 2021 11:57 AM

CW3 Matt Hicklin — Mon, 27 Dec 2021 11:57:14 -0500

Look, you’re a Lab tech that works in a Hospital providing patient care services. The people on here saying that you should be able to do your job with 3-4 hours sleep are just talking out their rears. Let them see you mess up a lab draw, miss a stick on their dependents, contaminate or mix up test orders or results etc.
Your Command should understand that you work 16-00 and either set up a 1330 PT session for Night Shift or some sort of exception. Maybe they are not tracking your shift, never assume. Good luck.

Response by LCpl Jeff Moore made Dec 27 at 2021 12:02 PM

LCpl Jeff Moore — Mon, 27 Dec 2021 12:02:20 -0500

Buck up, I would have to do PT after working doing 56 hours in a 72 hour period. Hell I would show up for PT after being out all night drinking.

But if it really that big of a deal bring it up with your NCO to send up the coc. Or Invite the 1st to follow your section for a 1600 to 0000 shift.

Response by PVT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 27 at 2021 12:15 PM

PVT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Dec 2021 12:15:49 -0500

Plenty of time to sleep during the day. It’s all about time management. Drill Sergeants gets less time than that during their time in the trail. Try working for 15-18 hours a day and still gotta do PT and more. Looks like you picked the wrong job.

Response by SGT Randy Bordner made Dec 27 at 2021 1:16 PM

SGT Randy Bordner — Mon, 27 Dec 2021 13:16:00 -0500

Learn to deal with it. Do you think during an attack, the enemy will wait until you have 8 hours sleep? I was infantry in Vietnam, we never slept more than a few hours at a time.

Response by SSgt Jeanne Wallace made Dec 27 at 2021 2:37 PM

SSgt Jeanne Wallace — Mon, 27 Dec 2021 14:37:30 -0500

Sounds like you will be doing a split shift sleeping..or maybe do laundry untill time for PT ...go home after PT eat some thing and go to bed..wake up eat go to work...you have now become a day sleeper..we have all done that very do able

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 27 at 2021 2:52 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Dec 2021 14:52:43 -0500

Time for your PLTSGT to step up. It’s their responsibility to discuss and press home w/ the 1SG, the needs of the troops to a workable solution. What was your last APFT score? If a pass, then this will support the PLTSGT argument. Ultimately, it’s PT until an alternative solution is approved

Response by SSG Matthew Wilson made Dec 27 at 2021 2:55 PM

SSG Matthew Wilson — Mon, 27 Dec 2021 14:55:31 -0500

LoL in my experience either you suck and leaving a ton out, crappy leadership, or maybe being lower enlisted you have no clue what is going on upper echelon…

Response by Cpl Rosemarie SantaAnna made Dec 27 at 2021 3:44 PM

Cpl Rosemarie SantaAnna — Mon, 27 Dec 2021 15:44:23 -0500

Just try it before You claim can’t do it!….

Response by LTC Patrick Mulloney made Dec 27 at 2021 4:16 PM

LTC Patrick Mulloney — Mon, 27 Dec 2021 16:16:38 -0500

Sounds like you best obey your command. Until you can determine a solution. As a cmdr I always had an open door policy. If your going to go discuss it with your Commander, that is your right but inform your ENTIRE Chain of Command (CoC) that you are going to discuss the PT situation with your commander. If your cmdr has an open door policy than it is your legal right you see her/him, if any NCO stops you take note of the time the day and exactly what was said. However, b4 going to your commander you should try to discuss the situation with your CoC. But FIRST come up with a solution to your problem. Now when you do see your commander you better have a solution that will work. As a soldier in todays military you are expected to think act take the initiative to solve a problem in the absense of leadership.
You really do not supply enough information. As your commander if you presented this problem to me the very first thing I would ask you is to see your work schedule. My next question would be to ask you what you recommend. If your standing there with nothing your going to look like a child but if your prepared than you look strong. Also, check and see what other soldiers in your command are in the same situation. The surgeon general reccomends 7 hrs of sleep, work from there. Let us know how it went!

Patrick Mulloney
LTC USAR (RET)

Response by SPC Juanita Anderson made Dec 27 at 2021 4:18 PM

SPC Juanita Anderson — Mon, 27 Dec 2021 16:18:34 -0500

You are winning.
If you work the grave yard shift you get off go the rack and then get up at 1600 for pt. Otherwise you make the 5:30 pt. You have no choice. You are in the army. During war time you might get 5 hours if your lucky. So suck it up butter cup and get with the program

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 27 at 2021 5:13 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Dec 2021 17:13:54 -0500

I'm curious, which Army hospital are you working at? The last time I did PT at an Army hospital that early in the morning was 2005 at Walter Reed. Bear in mind I was coming from a Combat Support Hospital from Iraq so my attitude was different. I loved it and I hated the whining from the troops who didn't want to be at PT so you'll get no sympathy from me. To answer your question, there is no regulation that covers what time physical fitness should be performed, however; AR 350-1 and FM 21-20 discuss commander's responsibilities as it pertains to physical fitness. Additionally, FM 21-10, Chapter 3, discusses the leadership's responsibility for fitness in a field/combat environment. One point to consider is that a soldier must have 3-4 hours of continuous sleep to perform 24hrs or more continuous operations. Let that sink in for a moment. If you can't handle it now, take SFC Davila advice and seek another profession. Given this Great Resignation that's occuring in America it wouldn't be hard for you to find another job. The solution is for you to manage your time better, get some rest, and be ready to perform PT when the time comes. The more you perform PT the better you become conditioned and you won't find yourself tired now go do some PT. Hooah!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 27 at 2021 6:13 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Dec 2021 18:13:06 -0500

You only work 8 hours a day. I would stop whining

Response by 1LT Bill Corcoran made Dec 27 at 2021 7:15 PM

1LT Bill Corcoran — Mon, 27 Dec 2021 19:15:49 -0500

Advdersity conditions one for adversity. Does this not apply anymore? How many combat vets got 4 hours of sleep or less for months or years on end?

Why not ake advantage of the adversity and see it as a way to harden your body, mind and character?

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2021 8:15 AM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Dec 2021 08:15:31 -0500

I think the 1SG made a “shooting from the hip” decision out of anger because of lack of participation in PT. Therefore, the 1SG should re-evaluate their PT schedule. Do they want it to be accomplished before duty starts or ends? 0530 and 1600 sounds like optional times for day shift. If it’s the former, then the 2d PT session (intended for 2d shift) should start at 1430 so the troops can shower and be ready to work at 1600.

I know this is a long paragraph a doesn’t answer your question. I’d hate to be in your shoes but the best advice I can offer is use your chain of command. Start with your immediate supervisor and work your way up.

Response by PO1 Robert Closson made Dec 28 at 2021 11:08 AM

PO1 Robert Closson — Tue, 28 Dec 2021 11:08:24 -0500

you show up for PT 5 hours of sleep is enough I could say a lot more but I will leave it at that

Response by PO1 Robert Closson made Dec 28 at 2021 11:20 AM

PO1 Robert Closson — Tue, 28 Dec 2021 11:20:09 -0500

you show up for PT first of all 2nd if you feel you have a valid complaint run it through your chain of command. life in the military is very simple follow orders and use your chain of command and always know your command regulations and directives it would behove you

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2021 12:37 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Dec 2021 12:37:00 -0500

Does your commander and/or 1st Shirt also have input to the duty roster? If so, ask if you can adjust your shift schedule to 1500 to 2300 to better accomodate your commander's PT requirement - seems as though there may be a disconnect in management with your unit and that chain of command thing can work to your benefit when used as designed - Problem solved.

Response by PO2 Mike Keyes made Dec 28 at 2021 12:44 PM

PO2 Mike Keyes — Tue, 28 Dec 2021 12:44:37 -0500

I can only tell you that on submarines we ran on 18 hour days- three six hour shifts, 7 days/week for the entire patrol. And that came immediately after the 30 day refit/crew turnover during which you worked whatever you had to work to get the boat ready to go back to sea- often 18-24hr days or more.
During patrol you did a 6 hr watch every day. When not on watch you had equipment to maintain, constant battlestations/casualty drills (the Navy, at least the sub service, loves their drills!), never ending qualifications to pursue (and until you at least earn "Qualified in Submarines", i.e. Dolphins, getting qualified is an all-consuming activity) regular cleaning and the much beloved 'field day' marathon cleaning once per week.
What you did with your free time was up to you though...

Yeah, it sucks. You're tired. You get worn out. It's not easy. If it was easy there'd be children doing it.
But in the end you just do it, and you end up proud that you did something difficult. You earned something. And someday you'll be laughing at you your civvy friends when they piss and moan that the the boss made them stay 20 minutes late or they had to work a half day on a Saturday.

Response by Cpl Mike Kunkel made Dec 28 at 2021 12:45 PM

Cpl Mike Kunkel — Tue, 28 Dec 2021 12:45:44 -0500

I guess its different now from when I served. In the Marines we were expected to do what we were told. PT on a few hours rest? Not sure what the problem is.

Response by Lt Col Bob Guessferd made Dec 28 at 2021 1:32 PM

Lt Col Bob Guessferd — Tue, 28 Dec 2021 13:32:36 -0500

Suck it up buttercup. You’re in the Army.

Response by COL Elizabeth Prekker made Dec 28 at 2021 2:34 PM

COL Elizabeth Prekker — Tue, 28 Dec 2021 14:34:52 -0500

I listened to a talk recently given by one of the CEOs at AT&T where she discussed her Seven "C"s of leadership. One of them was Compassion or empathy. I served for 30 years in the Army with two combat tours in Iraq. Through all those years I found that I received more dedication and commitment from my Soldiers through being an understanding leader than by beating them up. Don't misconstrue my meaning of compassion by assuming I coddled my Soldiers. I expected a great deal out of them, but I usually didn't have to demand or even ask it of them because they demanded it of themselves knowing that they had leadership that didn't make unreasonable demands and also had their backs when necessary. Making the personal choice to stay late at the club on your downtime rather than sleeping is vastly different than not having the time to sleep due to mission demands. Granted there are times when operational requirements will cause Soldiers to have to make do with less sleep, but to wantonly require it can cause unnecessary issues from sleep deprivation. Fit, well rested Soldiers are better prepared to handle demanding deployments that require long shifts with little sleep. Depriving them of sleep leading up to deployments only breaks down their systems and makes them less capable of dealing with the stresses they will face. Leadership needs to learn how to find solutions to problems that don't punish those that are doing what is required of them. One-size-fits-all punishment displays a lack of effort by leaders.

As for how to approach the problem, I would suggest trying to come with an alternative plan to offer. If the unit PT levels are below standard, that is likely the underlying issue that the 1SG is trying to resolve. If your section is part of the reason standards are low, that is a concern. Additionally, if your score is below par, that is an issue as well. Find out what the real reason behind the mandatory attendance requirement is and address that. Since everyone in your section is working these extended hours, is there someone in your section that could come up with a physical fitness plan and the section be accountable for conducting its own PT? You need to come to leadership with an alternative that will meet their underlying concerns. You don't want to go to leadership with a complaint without an understanding of what the true issue is and suggestions with ways to resolve it. The attitude of "suck it up" doesn't prepare you on how to be a good leader yourself. Take this opportunity to learn how to solve problems.

Response by SSG Jim Allen made Dec 28 at 2021 2:45 PM

SSG Jim Allen — Tue, 28 Dec 2021 14:45:11 -0500

McDonalds is hiring.

Response by SGT Jeff Steele (Ret.) made Dec 28 at 2021 5:18 PM

SGT Jeff Steele (Ret.) — Tue, 28 Dec 2021 17:18:05 -0500

The military is not an easy life know matter what MOS/job you have. But it seems one thing is being overlooked. The training, the PT, the work we do in peace time, the hard long hours put in at times are preparing soldiers for combat. Plush living conditions, adequate if not just minimal sleep, MREs, lack of showers for days on end and communications with home are most times very much lacking in combat or deployed areas. I can tell stories after stories of my deployments and combat tours, which seemed to suck at the time, but are fond memories to me and my veteran friends now. I can also tell stories of the same conditions during peacetime on post. It is all part of the experience of being in the military and a soldier. If you look back to those who served before us and the conditions they endured during Valley Forge, the Old West and Indian wars, WWI and WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, those soldiers....those soldiers knew some hardship and definitely would call you out and give you grief over having to do PT and lose an hours sleep somewhere in your day. Accidents happen for a multitude of reasons including fatigue, but they are rare. Mental and physical disciple is needed in the military, to complain about something so minimal, while on post, in peacetime...well seems a little unsoldierly to me.

Response by Sgt Ryan Mullenix made Dec 28 at 2021 6:07 PM

Sgt Ryan Mullenix — Tue, 28 Dec 2021 18:07:35 -0500

So your section is 1600-0000 but no one has 0000-0800 shift? Like others have said, not guaranteed 8 hours sleep in the military. But op has more of a chance than most deployed personnel for a total of 8 hours sleep, even if it's a broken 8 hours

Response by PO3 Alan Killebrew made Dec 28 at 2021 11:03 PM

PO3 Alan Killebrew — Tue, 28 Dec 2021 23:03:41 -0500

The way you solve this issue is to grow up. I am a veteran and sleep is a luxury you dont always get. If you cannot handle the rigors of the last watch imagine getting the midwatch and 0000-0400 and still having a full day. Now imagine that in a war zone with someone who believes they get to go to heaven for putting a bullet in you. Think he is going to stop trying to kill you because its nappy time and you want your juice box and blankie? Please let me know who your recruiter was so I can go and slap him.

Response by SSG Andre Washington made Dec 29 at 2021 11:58 AM

SSG Andre Washington — Wed, 29 Dec 2021 11:58:02 -0500

I'm reminded of a common run cadence as I'm reading this question: "Don't fall out, you gotta DEAL with it!!" It's the Army Soldier. Sleep is something that you may not have control of for the entire time you are in the Army, but you can control your level of motivation. Use your chain of command and address the issue. If your command cannot accommodate your request, use your resiliency skills and go all out during PT. This is what we signed up for. Drink water and adjust fire!

Response by PO1 Mike Wallace made Dec 29 at 2021 3:47 PM

PO1 Mike Wallace — Wed, 29 Dec 2021 15:47:21 -0500

Maybe you should say a prayer on your way to pt. A prayer of thanks for not being deployed living in a tent and not knowing who will shoot at you next.
The military regardless of branch or duty assignment makes demands on us that most would never accept.

Response by SGT Mike Keil made Dec 29 at 2021 6:00 PM

SGT Mike Keil — Wed, 29 Dec 2021 18:00:55 -0500

As a junior enlisted, you do what you are told. Stop complaining about PT and do it. If you are tired, get more sleep. If you have plans to work in a civilian hospital when you ETS, you better get used to working long hours with little time off there also. GROW UP.

Response by SGT Mike Keil made Dec 29 at 2021 6:01 PM

SGT Mike Keil — Wed, 29 Dec 2021 18:01:14 -0500

Response by PO1 Billy Wilson made Dec 29 at 2021 6:56 PM

PO1 Billy Wilson — Wed, 29 Dec 2021 18:56:33 -0500

A 1980 enlisted here you are going to love 12 hour day everyday with 24 hour every third day, for 6 months.

Response by SGT Willie Harrison made Dec 29 at 2021 7:35 PM

SGT Willie Harrison — Wed, 29 Dec 2021 19:35:36 -0500

To solve this issue then all you have to do is go to PT, Soldier.

Response by SPC Brian Ezell made Dec 29 at 2021 8:31 PM

SPC Brian Ezell — Wed, 29 Dec 2021 20:31:35 -0500

Speak to your commanding officer. You should not have to go to PT on such short sleep time.

Response by MSgt Robert Bell made Dec 29 at 2021 11:14 PM

MSgt Robert Bell — Wed, 29 Dec 2021 23:14:23 -0500

WTF is wrong with you? 4-5 hours of sleep you can run a fricking marathon with that kind of sleep. God forbid you have to fight a war some where. My advice to you, refuse the Covid Vaccine and get the hell out, You are undoubtedly a burden to your unit.

Response by CMSgt Alan Yoshida made Dec 30 at 2021 6:17 AM

CMSgt Alan Yoshida — Thu, 30 Dec 2021 06:17:41 -0500

Answer. You got to PT and you give it all you got. Get food and water in you. Shower off and go to work or sleep depending on what your schedule calls for. It will make you better in the end

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2021 9:32 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Dec 2021 09:32:29 -0500

One thing that I noticed approx 10-12 years prior to retirement was the overwhelming drift toward appeasement and the changing of policies for individuals vs individuals being held accountable to the standard to which they signed up for upon enlistment. Whether hair style, physical requirements or a “whole self” concept, it is an integrity issue for an individual to sign the line and then expect policy to change for them. Whether it’s having to cover field Ops in the mountains on a broken foot, or increasing field time for everyone else because 2 individuals out of 8 assigned, were serially pregnant during a 4 year tour, sometimes we have to put up and shut up. No more so than being the only deployable individual in a 4 person section dedicated to supporting GRL deployments, as long as it isn’t illegal, you just do it. Somewhere along the line “we” have been lead to believe that “we” as individuals are much more important than we are. From one perspective, that plays upon an individuals willingness to things that are ridiculous because “we really need you on this one”. From another perspective, it’s going to get done whether you are there or not. As a former IDMT, medics are the absolute worst offenders when it comes to wanting exceptions. Medics were also so first ones to boast about “cool guy $#!+” until it was time to do “cool guy $#!+” and then they could carry a ruck up the hill. We had SEVERAL MAJCOM functional managers want to come out and see what we did for a living until they figured out that they weren’t in shape enough to walk through the training area. “I’ve seen enough” and then make command decisions about our op. While I believe that group activities are highly over rated and really not MORAL events as we are often indoctrinated to believe, PT is a necessary evil for anyone who is expected to make and win war or provide the injured troop with the best ability to make it back home. Time management is Key. How often is it happening and other than something that is not fun, is there a safety element involved? I get it. There are a TON of just because BS in the military; however, if you signed the line, you do the time and suck it up until you have played the game long enough to implement change. Present a rational argument. Present a rational solution with a means of validation. Accept the outcome. You also have to recognize that as the new CC or 1SG, sometimes they come out as a hard ass to show off in their new position. Much of what the military does is a mental game and image oriented. Can I get you to do something that makes little sense in order to test your fortitude and dedication. Sometimes it is to make certain that you are set up for success and survival. Sometimes it, “ Is the units PT score going to help MY profitability?” Sometimes it’s because they have no control at home, but I digress. Regardless, thank you for your service. You’ve got this.

Response by TSgt Robert Wayne made Dec 30 at 2021 10:27 AM

TSgt Robert Wayne — Thu, 30 Dec 2021 10:27:07 -0500

How often do you have to do PT? I remember once a year mandatory for the record. The rest of the year was on your own to stay in shape to pass that once a year. I was a firefighter. 24 hrs on and 24 hours off. Plenty of years they would tell us at roll call when my shift was getting off that we were told to meet wherever for our annual PT. We had to go take care of that before we went home for the day. Guess what? We went! You were given your orders. You follow orders then go get some rest before your next shift. The only way you can not "sound" like your whining, is to stop whining!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2021 11:09 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Dec 2021 11:09:01 -0500

Get up and report to PT or get out of the military it is a requirement. Your 1SG or Commander can require you to report to the duty officer in full uniform every hour 20 hours a day and require you to sleep at the CQ or STAFF Duty DESK the other 4 hours so go to PT or get out as failure to report to duty is a courts martial offence especially after being ordered to be there failure to comply could result in a federal conviction, dishonorable discharge, and imprisonment loss of all pay and allowances, and a record that will follow you into civilian life.

Response by SSgt Steven Imlay made Dec 30 at 2021 3:18 PM

SSgt Steven Imlay — Thu, 30 Dec 2021 15:18:15 -0500

You cannot maintain a day shift lifestyle when you work a swing or night shift. You need to adjust your sleep schedule around your duty schedule. Your duty schedule seems to be 1600 - 0000 hrs and 0530 - 0630/0730. That gives you from 0630/0730 - 1600 hrs to sleep and 0000 - 0530 hrs as free time. Seems that you have about 14/15 hrs a day for sleep and other activities. You can figure this out. There are few exceptions in the military for disgruntled service members. You volunteered and signed a contract to do your duty. You need to hold up your end of the contract.

Response by CW3 Richard Lawrence made Dec 30 at 2021 3:40 PM

CW3 Richard Lawrence — Thu, 30 Dec 2021 15:40:19 -0500

Suck it up buttercup! There is no issue to discuss. Your are in the military, do your job to include scheduled PT.

Response by CPT Jay Schoenhaar made Dec 30 at 2021 11:09 PM

CPT Jay Schoenhaar — Thu, 30 Dec 2021 23:09:53 -0500

I don't think your !SG is asking for you to do PT on 5 hour of sleep but on deployment I have worked with much less, both as a medic when I stared, and when I got out as a nurse. But when I was working at a hospital I was on either the 1600-0000 or 0000--0800 so I know about having a messed up sleep schedule. What it might help to do it just live like a vampire, be a wake during the night time hours, use when you get off as cool down then, sleep, before work.

Response by CPL Robert Price made Dec 31 at 2021 6:28 AM

CPL Robert Price — Fri, 31 Dec 2021 06:28:42 -0500

Well here's what you do. On your way to PT, you go by supply and pick up a spine and a pair of testicles.
Problem solved.

Response by SGT Daniel Merriman made Dec 31 at 2021 8:27 AM

SGT Daniel Merriman — Fri, 31 Dec 2021 08:27:56 -0500

What kind of pussy outfit do you belong to? 5 show up for PT ?At Bragg you'd probably get an article15.Even with 2hours of sleep we ran 4 miles .Suck it up buttercup !

Response by MSgt George Fillgrove made Dec 31 at 2021 12:50 PM

MSgt George Fillgrove — Fri, 31 Dec 2021 12:50:56 -0500

Sorry, I'm not sympathetic and don't buy your excuse. The only viable reason to miss PT is medical, especially if the exercise could do more damage. You are supposed to be ready for duty 24/7 and PT is part of that duty regiment.

I'm retired Air Force, but seven of the first eight months I spent in the Air Force involved being shifted from one Army base or camp to another. At that last base, Ft. Harrison, I was in a joint service company and falling out for PT was voluntary. I did it anyway.

Four decades later, I'm now a disabled veteran suffering from severe arthritis among other things, finding running hard, but that doesn't stop me from getting up at 4:30 every morning and walking five to six miles.

My wife and I now walk marathons. I'm always humbled when I do those events. You are competing with individuals on prosthetic legs, adaptive wheelchairs, are wounded warriors, and in one instance was a blinded wounded warrior....and you say to yourself, so what's my problem.

Guess you could say my exposure to PT in both the Air Force and the Army became a major lifestyle change.

Response by PFC Tim Wilkinson made Dec 31 at 2021 1:48 PM

PFC Tim Wilkinson — Fri, 31 Dec 2021 13:48:34 -0500

That’s an easy fix solve the problem by understanding you’re in the service you do what you’re told it’s not unlawful so do it period

Response by SSG Gregg Mourizen made Dec 31 at 2021 6:56 PM

SSG Gregg Mourizen — Fri, 31 Dec 2021 18:56:30 -0500

The A-Hole in me wants to say "SUCK IT UP kILO!"
The only section in the Hospital? Really?

Believe me, I've been there. Had the same argument. Debated all those same issues.
"Losing battle" is only the begining of it.

What can you do?
Talk to the First Sargent. Might work. Most likely wont.
Max your PT test, then ask. Again, good luck.

I always found these things come in waves.
In fact I would bet this rotated around several times already, since you made this post.
Big group, nobody show, big group, nobody shows. I bet there was a PT test coming up.

Response by FN Charlie Spivey made Dec 31 at 2021 11:42 PM

FN Charlie Spivey — Fri, 31 Dec 2021 23:42:21 -0500

Did a tour in Vietnam, 4 - 5 hrs. was a luxury. With the coast guard and you are at a lifeboat Station Tou may be out on a call get 4-5 hours in before reveille, you get up and start your day. You are NOT guaranteed 8 hrs. sleep at night. I can remember one time when it was 96+ hrs. before I saw my rack again and more than a few of 24 hrs.+. We didn't have organized PT, but we did work out. Anybody who did a tour in Vietnam or any CZ knew that sleep was a premium and you got it where and when you could.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2022 8:43 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 01 Jan 2022 20:43:15 -0500

What exactly do you have to explain? Trying to understand just what the problem is. What is your day like after morning PT? Is your section forever relegated to the four to balls? So you work the night shift.

Reading your information you’re getting an eight hour break which you’re not obligated to get, BTW. This is not unfair situation or against regs in any service I’ve worked with. Hell, sounds a lot more stable and restful than most rotations I’ve experienced.

As for regs that support anything, I have to believe the Army subscribes to the whole lawful order business, so there’s that.

Response by CAPT Edward Schmitt made Jan 2 at 2022 5:58 PM

CAPT Edward Schmitt — Sun, 02 Jan 2022 17:58:08 -0500

You suck it up and go to PT. You are a warrior and need to prepare for hard times. The enemy will not wait until you get enough rest.

Response by SPC Carlton Phelps made Jan 3 at 2022 4:31 PM

SPC Carlton Phelps — Mon, 03 Jan 2022 16:31:19 -0500

Like everyone else, I agree, you are in the Army now. Look up the song. It seemed we were always getting up for PT at all hours. I never had a time when we weren't surprised out of sleep to get up and go from a 5-mile run to an hour of PT. They were preparing us to be able to function at a higher level with little sleep. In case we ended up in Viet Nam.

Response by SFC Tomaso Santomauro made Jan 3 at 2022 10:27 PM

SFC Tomaso Santomauro — Mon, 03 Jan 2022 22:27:16 -0500

Are your leaders there with you? Remember, you may not be able to be worked hard but you sure can be worked long. I agree, perhaps find a job more suited to your constitution.

Response by SGT Robert Peterson made Jan 4 at 2022 4:40 AM

SGT Robert Peterson — Tue, 04 Jan 2022 04:40:28 -0500

Boo hoo do you want some cheese with that wine please show me where you're guaranteed any number of hours of sleep
You're in the United States military for crying out loud

Response by COL John F. S. made Jan 4 at 2022 4:12 PM

COL John F. S. — Tue, 04 Jan 2022 16:12:30 -0500

Since you work the 1600 hrs shift, there is no other alternative than 0530 hrs. PT tends to be team-oriented and therefore the 1SG or other Sr. NCO in charge of the formations has to probably oversee both PT formations. That's got to be an inconvenience to them as well with their busy daily schedules, and it's all due to only five people showing up for PT. That is what is driving this. Poor attendance demonstrates a lack of mission priorities and discipline by the Soldiers not attending what is a mandatory PT formation for every Soldier or Servicemember in all branches of Service. To have organized PT let's say for example, during the noon hour can affect the flow of the daily mission. So either early AM or late afternoon, and since you work the 1660 shift, I don't know how they can provide you "organized" PT vs solo PT, which misses the point of teamwork in every aspect of your job. You work together as a team, exercise together as a team, and yes, play together (organized sports) or as some go out on the town together in a fashion as a team. The key is together, team, and mission.
Note: would noon work for every Soldier in the command without adversely affecting the mission? If so, then perhaps you could approach them with that option if it works for the majority of the team. Then, you'd have to figure out the dining facility and eating alternatives perhaps.
Question: what "exception" would you be looking for that doesn't exclude PT? Perhaps private PT (Private PT typically is a "given" for every Soldier to do to keep in shape for the organized PT), or perhaps another time slot that doesn't impact the whole team? Have you researched that with the whole Command of enlisted personnel? You are fortunate you have two-time slots, AM and PM. I have never heard of PT other than very early AM so you can get back, shower, and dress for the day's work. I understand your work timeframe is opposite the others at 1600 hrs. How many are on your 1600 hour shift from your command? Can you find a time all these shift workers could perform PT? I would suppose also it would depend on what else is scheduled by regular command daily requirements. Your 1SG and Company Commander have responsibilities that can go far beyond what you imagine and thus impacts their command structure and thus you. The command structure is accountable to the mission. The mission drives all.

Response by MSgt Nathan Krawitz made Jan 11 at 2022 3:31 PM

MSgt Nathan Krawitz — Tue, 11 Jan 2022 15:31:35 -0500

When I was in initial training, I was rarely on a days shift. My official reville and taps hours were adjusted accordingly and it was rare that I had obligations outside the window. If mandatory PT is part of everyone's schedule, then shift workers should have a different time slot.

When power-hungry senior enlisted "impress" their superiors with great results, but a later incident gets traced back to this, it can ruin a career. Good leaders will stand up for doing the right thing.

Response by CA Eugene Martindale made Jan 17 at 2022 11:04 PM

CA Eugene Martindale — Mon, 17 Jan 2022 23:04:58 -0500

You Follow ORDERS

Response by PO3 Pamala McBrayer made Jan 20 at 2022 12:34 AM

PO3 Pamala McBrayer — Thu, 20 Jan 2022 00:34:57 -0500

Boo. Hoo.
I worked overnights on the ship, had atleast fire party or a 4 hour watch every night. Last duty muster was 2100, before lights out. Watch from 1200-0400. By the time you got off watch you showered, changed, and planned to be up NLT 0700, to grab breakfast and a cup of coffee for muster…and WORKED THE WHOLE DAY to 1600 liberty call. So, that means 2 hours of sleep in 32-36 hours.
YOU CAN DO IT! You’re young, and coffee is the lifeblood of the military. Once, I worked 3 days straight. Never saw my rack. It was hard, but I survived it, and you will too.

Response by Maj Robert Larkowski made Jan 23 at 2022 10:59 AM

Maj Robert Larkowski — Sun, 23 Jan 2022 10:59:09 -0500

Suck it up buttercup!

Response by LCpl Walter Larson made Jan 27 at 2022 12:19 PM

LCpl Walter Larson — Thu, 27 Jan 2022 12:19:48 -0500

In Vietnam we were lucky to get 3 to 4 hours sleep a night before we had to be up and humping again. 0311 Semper Fi

Response by SN Dale "CG" Veach made Jan 30 at 2022 3:37 PM

SN Dale "CG" Veach — Sun, 30 Jan 2022 15:37:33 -0500

You be at PT when told to do so. And YES you are whining. Suck it up buttercup!

Response by SGT Brett Caldwell made Feb 4 at 2022 1:04 AM

SGT Brett Caldwell — Fri, 04 Feb 2022 01:04:59 -0500

This thread is an oldie, but a goodie. And these comments are awesome. Every so often I wonder if I made the right choice in getting out after my first term (with an extra year tacked on for funsies). These comments remove all doubt that I made the right decision.

I deployed for half of my 5 years. Did the 36 hours straight due to combat necessity (and I was a pogue). Did 12 on 12 “offs” for months on end. That wasn’t actually the part that bothered me. What bothered me was the garrison army mentality prior to Iraq kicking off. As a lower enlisted with a bunch of non-deployed NCO’s and O’s who just had to make things harder than they needed to be.

Luckily it got a bit better after everyone had a tour or two under their belts. After that first 16 month deployment the good leaders realized that yes, you need to get your job and your training done. But damn, once that’s done, go enjoy your life a bit. Spend time with your family if you have one. Maybe with that kid who you missed a whole bunch of firsts with. Or a 3 year old who really has no memory of you in person.

Train hard, but play/rest hard too. Because those deployments are long, and there’s a whole lot of suck during them.

Or just come in right in the middle of your “off time” for some PT.

PS - Army PT sucked anyway. I’ve been in way better shape and physically trained way more effectively the 15 years that I’ve been out than I ever did while in.

Response by SN Jeremiah Passmore made Feb 14 at 2022 5:40 PM

SN Jeremiah Passmore — Mon, 14 Feb 2022 17:40:31 -0500

Join Space Force

Response by PO2 Rodney Sieg made Feb 15 at 2022 3:58 PM

PO2 Rodney Sieg — Tue, 15 Feb 2022 15:58:14 -0500

What happened to just following orders? Granted, I joined the military 56 years ago, and some things have changed. The draft is gone and now the military is an all voluntary organization . That doesn't mean orders are voluntary. Just shut the hell up and do what you are ordered to do! As I see it you have two choices, (1) follow orders and when your time is up, leave, or (2) make rank and change what you do not like. If you can't follow a simple order in a safe environment, what are going to do in a combat situation? Hesitate, refuse, open up a dialogue? You need to learn self discipline. Orders are given for reasons such as character, confidence, health and body building and teaching discipline. At times, in ones career, an order can be way out of line and going over ones supervisor to his boss to correct the problem is the correct way to handle the problem. Unless it is life threatening, obey the order. Just my two cents worth from old man. Stay safe.

Response by LTC Gordon Johnson made Feb 16 at 2022 10:08 AM

LTC Gordon Johnson — Wed, 16 Feb 2022 10:08:54 -0500

Your First Sergeant isn't an idiot. You will not successfully use regulations to cause a change in this policy because the policy exists to serve the commander's interests. Your Brigade Commander has been embarrassed by the Corps Commander on the issue of PT, and the number of profiles. Your Brigade Commander has reviewed the Companies, and your company is the one getting the attention right now.
There are two things you can do. First you can understand that it will be a temporary policy of no more than 2 weeks to a month.
Secondly, you can communicate this to anyone you supervise, and to the hospital civilian staff as a safety issue that they need to be aware of. Make sure you and your privates, if you have any, make arrangements with spouses/roommates - possibly even the hospital itself - that they go to sleep immediately after their shifts and get another nap before work if you can manage it. You don't want you or one of your soldiers to be the cause of the end of the policy, because it will reveal you as the weakest of the candidate NCO's.
The policy will end one of three ways: 1) The Company improves PT scores/ Profiles / or similar that got the Commander noticed. 2) Someone has a fender bender caused by sleep deprivation. 3) The Commander of the Hospital/ Defense Health raises the issue of patient safety due to sleep deprived soldiers and suggests reduced soldier involvement in the Hospitals.
From Defense Health's perspective soldier Medics are in hospitals purely to keep them trained in medical tasks. Anything that gets their attention as to the safety of that arrangement will go straight to the Four-Star level, guessing where you are that is probably FORSCOM Commander, and will trigger a chain of events that ends the policy for your company.
#1 is the most likely end to the policy. #2 is the next most likely. #3 will require a severe incident that is unlikely because it will take a severe incident to get the Hospital Commander/Defense Health's attention.

Response by SPC Vincent Stroup made Feb 16 at 2022 7:32 PM

SPC Vincent Stroup — Wed, 16 Feb 2022 19:32:04 -0500

PT isn’t mandatory at first formation? I’d say do your PT and then go back to bed, 5 hours is plenty of sleep to get up and do a hour of PT.

Response by SSG Dave Weider made Feb 17 at 2022 3:08 AM

SSG Dave Weider — Thu, 17 Feb 2022 03:08:37 -0500

Man I miss the good old days! Are you really trying to tell us you aren’t tough enough to be a medical laboratory specialist? You can survive this. If there is anything I know about the army is that with patience comes change. Your situation will change.

Response by PO3 Dennis Bullard made Feb 18 at 2022 8:42 AM

PO3 Dennis Bullard — Fri, 18 Feb 2022 08:42:28 -0500

You would not make it as a Navy Hospital Corpsman with the Marines. Seriously!

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2022 9:25 AM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Feb 2022 09:25:39 -0500

Honestly just do it. We've all had to do more on less sleep. Sometimes missions were requiredwith less than 2 hrs of sleep with the mission being 24 hrs. Quit being a whiny ass and just deal with it. It's a bit of pt. Waaaah

Response by SPC Joseph Goodland made Feb 18 at 2022 5:22 PM

SPC Joseph Goodland — Fri, 18 Feb 2022 17:22:05 -0500

Question: How can I solve this problem?
Answer: PT

Response by PO1 Jon Jepsen made Feb 19 at 2022 12:35 AM

PO1 Jon Jepsen — Sat, 19 Feb 2022 00:35:59 -0500

This can't be real. Is this a joke?

Response by SPC John Donohue made Feb 20 at 2022 1:07 PM

SPC John Donohue — Sun, 20 Feb 2022 13:07:45 -0500

Go to PT

Response by SrA Michele Burgman made Feb 21 at 2022 1:01 PM

SrA Michele Burgman — Mon, 21 Feb 2022 13:01:24 -0500

All this bravado and posturing is hilarious. These responses have turned into a dick measuring contest. This is exactly why retention rate is bad in some career fields. I sympathize with the poster as my military career was also shift work. I would recommend taking it up the chain with your valid concerns.

Response by SPC Ralph Ware made Feb 23 at 2022 3:22 PM

SPC Ralph Ware — Wed, 23 Feb 2022 15:22:14 -0500

I read this and almost, almost collapsed in tears! This situation is so incredibly cruel! Is so ........OH BULLSHIT! Yes your working in a nice clean hospital, good chow and comfy little bed I am sure. Its clear you are NOT a field medic! And I hope with what you wrote you never will be. First,I for one don't know how many times I rolled at 0500, laced boots and hit the parade ground, after 15 minutes of down time from an all night attempt to drink everyone else at the table under it. This after starting the day before at 0500. Granted, I was a lot younger than I am now, but point is it can be done, repeatedly. Also, I hope I can safely assume that your time has always been in CONUS. Or way far away from any combat situation. With what is disturbing you now, combat would have killed you. Or your Grunts would have, listening to you snivel. Cupcake, I don't know you. I am only drawing a conclusion from what you have stated. You really need to buck your ass up and get with the program. There will come a time in your life that you are gonna have to look back at your service, look yourself in the eye at the mirror, and either be proud of the job you did, voluntarily, or consider never letting anyone know what you did or how you did it. We, all of us, have parts that we have to perform, to the best of our ability, to make sure of mission success. Big or little jobs, they all have to be done. Shit hits the fan in your life, you are now self discovering what you are down deep. Do it for yourself and that gets it done for all. The old saying is true......"Pick your ass up, you can sleep when your dead"! Just sayin' ..............

Response by MAJ Keith FitzPatrick, CPIM, CSCP made Feb 25 at 2022 4:37 PM

MAJ Keith FitzPatrick, CPIM, CSCP — Fri, 25 Feb 2022 16:37:18 -0500

I've been thinking through this and I realized that at age 60 I'm getting 4.5 to 5 hours of sleep per night. I get up at 0430 to run; work from 0800 to 1700 or 1800, hang out with my family, and get to sleep by 2300 or 0000. Every day. As a civilian. This is just to say that people function in 5 hours of sleep all the time. But, if I were 1SG, I'd have my section leader conduct PT at an appropriate time for my shift workers. In this case, PT for the section would be at around 1400.

Response by Sgt Ray Addison made Feb 27 at 2022 9:19 AM

Sgt Ray Addison — Sun, 27 Feb 2022 09:19:51 -0500

Finish your enlistment and do the military a favor and get out!!!

Response by Sgt Jon Mcvay made Feb 28 at 2022 4:17 AM

Sgt Jon Mcvay — Mon, 28 Feb 2022 04:17:59 -0500

Go and do not he best you can. If you get lucky endorphin will kick in and you'll be wide awake all day. The best high you'll ever get.

Response by SFC Tracy Donahoo made Mar 4 at 2022 11:47 AM

SFC Tracy Donahoo — Fri, 04 Mar 2022 11:47:50 -0500

Go to PT and keep your mouth shut.

Your command isn’t the problem.

Response by SGT M Edilson made Mar 7 at 2022 5:25 PM

SGT M Edilson — Mon, 07 Mar 2022 17:25:58 -0500

So you can't sleep after PT, your shift don't start till 1600.

Response by SGT M Edilson made Mar 7 at 2022 5:35 PM

SGT M Edilson — Mon, 07 Mar 2022 17:35:02 -0500

You have a problem with your NCO's not your 1SG or Commander, The senior enlisted IE platoon, squad leaders and section NCO's, use the open door policy if your direct supervisor can't help. If you have been counseled monthly and if reflects that you have had no problems I see no point why a 1sg wouldn't fix the problem unless you have shitty leadership and chain of command.

Response by TSgt James Sutton made Mar 10 at 2022 7:05 PM

TSgt James Sutton — Thu, 10 Mar 2022 19:05:07 -0500

sucks working shifts I know, ask your supervisor to attend a meeting with the 1Sg to address the issue and point out the issues....conversely you could just stay up and go to the 0530 PT....and sleep during the day?

Response by PO2 Lon Hebert made Mar 15 at 2022 11:33 AM

PO2 Lon Hebert — Tue, 15 Mar 2022 11:33:38 -0400

stop hanging out at the club and get your sleep. I can remember when we had PFT that overseas in the Philippines. guys would be coming in from the clubs and try to run PFT then throw up. me I would stay on base. and run the PFT.

Response by MAJ Karen Wall made Apr 19 at 2022 11:26 AM

MAJ Karen Wall — Tue, 19 Apr 2022 11:26:04 -0400

My first question is: I thought PT was mandatory - exceptions being those working at that time. Did that change??

Response by AA Richard Tallini made Apr 22 at 2022 1:46 PM

AA Richard Tallini — Fri, 22 Apr 2022 13:46:17 -0400

Should’ve joined the Cub Scouts! Not even Boy Scout material

Response by SPC David C. made Apr 24 at 2022 11:42 PM

SPC David C. — Sun, 24 Apr 2022 23:42:38 -0400

You suck it up and do it. You start playing regulations games, as a junior enlisted, with a brand new 1st Sgt/ Commander and you're done. You'll be on every shit working party until you transfer out or get out of the military altogether.

Response by SGT Gregory Demetreon made Apr 28 at 2022 9:31 AM

SGT Gregory Demetreon — Thu, 28 Apr 2022 09:31:35 -0400

I think that there would be time between PT and work un the afternoon to sleep. When I worked third shift, I had to adjust to sleeping all day and working or doing my own thing at night. I also had to be up at 0700 to take kids to school. There is 8 consecutive hrs for rest in that schedule. Maybe just not the same hours ofvthe day as others who work 1st shift. Sleep after PT in a dark room and get adjusted to day light sleeping like the rest of the working world that have night jobs. Soon, I'm sure, you will be able to get a day shift as your seniority improves. That's the real life, military or not.

Response by COL Eric Burns made Apr 28 at 2022 11:30 AM

COL Eric Burns — Thu, 28 Apr 2022 11:30:01 -0400

Theres is regs , but it is also training to see how a soldier fubctions through deprived sleep as in a war time siruation , there is some instructors who check previous testing scores to see how each soldier handles the situation on a individual and group basis.

Response by SGM Ronald Cheatom made Apr 30 at 2022 10:44 AM

SGM Ronald Cheatom — Sat, 30 Apr 2022 10:44:57 -0400

In my day, 1981-2001 if you worked that shift, then PT was done in the afternoon. We did a thing called reverse duty training, where we flipped the day to first call at 1600, PT at 1700, and so on. Whoever your operations NCO is, they are not planning this right. Your position, and those that follow the same duty time frame should have your day adjusted accordingly. That being said, remember, follow your last order, and suck it up, however make your concern known.

Response by CW3 Dan Mackey made May 2 at 2022 3:25 PM

CW3 Dan Mackey — Mon, 02 May 2022 15:25:47 -0400

Train as if your life may depend on it. War comes with no sleep rules. Do the PT and then shower and rest if it is in the schedule. I spent 42 hours without more than a cat nap and had to fight for much of the last 2 hours. Training and PT are not punishment. they are preparation. Your attitude toward it may keep you alive or get you killed. Be careful what you wish for, and remember you joined the Army you weren't drafted.

Response by SPC Roger Furtak made May 12 at 2022 4:56 PM

SPC Roger Furtak — Thu, 12 May 2022 16:56:02 -0400

I had to deal with same crap when we were deployed to Baghdad. I worked a midnight to noon shift in the toc and also ran missions as the commanders gunner but someone put out MANDATORY pt sessions. Everyone had to either make 0700 or 1600 pt, and I couldn't go at 0700 so I'd fall asleep at like 1pm have to wake up for 1600pt then go back to sleep til 2330 or maybe end up going on missions. I guess it's just stuff ya gotta deal with in the military.

Response by SPC Shelby Kline made Jun 23 at 2022 12:32 PM

SPC Shelby Kline — Thu, 23 Jun 2022 12:32:08 -0400

You're in the military. Sometimes shit sucks. Deal with it.

Response by SFC David Drury made Jun 29 at 2022 12:20 AM

SFC David Drury — Wed, 29 Jun 2022 00:20:42 -0400

Talk to the NCOIC of your shift to set up PT from 1400 to 1500.. if your suggestions fall on deaf ears, remember this experience when you become a NCO.

Response by Cpl David Fulks made Jul 19 at 2022 12:20 AM

Cpl David Fulks — Tue, 19 Jul 2022 00:20:09 -0400

Military is HELL get use to it or get out !

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2022 5:38 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Aug 2022 17:38:59 -0400

Take your pick and attend one or the other you volunteered to be a soldier doing PT is part of being a soldier get off your lazy butt and go to PT formation it is a requirement not a request. Comply or get out of military!!!

Response by SP5 Ed Nolan made Aug 11 at 2022 12:20 PM

SP5 Ed Nolan — Thu, 11 Aug 2022 12:20:13 -0400

WOW, really??? If TOP has a "desire" for everyone show up for PT, it would behoove you to be there, PERIOD. You get off work at 0000, you can hit the sack and have plenty of rest to attend, no excuse. If you CHOOSE to go out drinking after work, and you only get 3 or 4 hours sleep, that's on you. You're in the Army and there are things that are expected of you, suck it up, go to PT, and if it's too much for you, ETS will come soon enough.

Response by CPL Ludwig Stines made Aug 11 at 2022 4:34 PM

CPL Ludwig Stines — Thu, 11 Aug 2022 16:34:21 -0400

Man, there really is a new generation out there full of pansy's and baby's ....Take your PT and you are whiny you little baby!!!! You are in the Military ----it is right----C'mon dude wake up !!!

Response by MSgt Mike (Lobo VNV Original) Morrow made Aug 12 at 2022 7:15 PM

MSgt Mike (Lobo VNV Original) Morrow — Fri, 12 Aug 2022 19:15:26 -0400

Suck it up, and show up buttercup!

Response by SMSgt Sheila Berg made Sep 10 at 2022 7:15 PM

SMSgt Sheila Berg — Sat, 10 Sep 2022 19:15:58 -0400

You raised your hand to defend the USA. Your expected to do your duty irregardless of the time required. PT only gets harder to pass as you get older. Or the other choice is to be discharged. Quit winning and get on it!

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2022 10:23 AM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Sep 2022 10:23:26 -0400

Drink a massive amount of red bull...that'll do the trick.

Response by TSgt Robert Wayne made Oct 6 at 2022 1:30 AM

TSgt Robert Wayne — Thu, 06 Oct 2022 01:30:41 -0400

You sound like one of those whiney kids looking for a loophole to get out of what is required. I was a firefighter my whole career working 24 hour shifts and many times I've had to get off work and go to PT. Many times I've had to finish my shift then go to a military deployment exercise that lasted most of the night then get back to work for my next shift. You're in the military. It's like having two jobs with one paycheck. Your job you were trained to do and your military job where you continue to train to be ready for war. Suck it up buttercup. Don't reenlist when your tour is up. You're not cut out for it. You coworkers need you at 100 %

Response by SGM Art Hudson made Oct 6 at 2022 8:41 AM

SGM Art Hudson — Thu, 06 Oct 2022 08:41:34 -0400

As a soldier physical training is a part of your duty, since when do Junior enlisted get to decide if they want to do the training or not. The reg is your enlistment contract.

Response by SGT Thomas Price made Oct 6 at 2022 8:53 AM

SGT Thomas Price — Thu, 06 Oct 2022 08:53:18 -0400

Shift work should be separated by scheduling, including blocking off time for training, but that's just me. If you are asking the Army to make sense though, perhaps its not the job for you; it led me to leave too.

Take solace in the fact that nearly every other army in the world is worse.

Response by SPC Gabriel Couch made Oct 6 at 2022 4:39 PM

SPC Gabriel Couch — Thu, 06 Oct 2022 16:39:56 -0400

4 hours of sleep in the Army is acceptable, as crazy as that sounds. Can't say for sure but it also sounds like 1SG is trying to solve a discipline issue too.

Here is your answer: Welcome to the Army, now do PT as ordered, and discuss with your team leader.

Response by PO2 Ronnie Chandler made Oct 6 at 2022 8:24 PM

PO2 Ronnie Chandler — Thu, 06 Oct 2022 20:24:33 -0400

It's the military doesn't matter what you do every day. You are a soldier! Manage your time and get there. Your also in the medical field that in itself says your gonna be needed for extra hours. There is nothing wrong with what your ssg is asking get up go to pt go back and catch a nap

Response by 1SG Rick Seekman made Oct 6 at 2022 8:50 PM

1SG Rick Seekman — Thu, 06 Oct 2022 20:50:31 -0400

Suck it up and do what you're told. What kind of cheese do you want with that whine?

Response by PFC Edgar Mosier made Oct 7 at 2022 9:41 AM

PFC Edgar Mosier — Fri, 07 Oct 2022 09:41:26 -0400

Unlike requiring a profiled pregnant soldier to be in CLASS As, Dress Greens, to receive mailed payroll checks, which Col. Kohler of the European RPAC did, thus interfering with the USPS (not held accountable) in 1978, there's little to do.
Wanna try Guard Duty? Four off, Two on, aka less than four hours sleep?

Response by SP5 John Burleson made Oct 7 at 2022 10:45 AM

SP5 John Burleson — Fri, 07 Oct 2022 10:45:14 -0400

Suck it up, bunko. If you get deployed to a combat area you will consider four to five hours of sleep a luxury beyond definition. My daughter-in-law was in Afghanistan where among other chores she was responsible for throwing a wired Afghani rebel out of a helicopter at 10,000 ft. They all got to watch The rebel blow up halfway down. It's tough out there my friend but always remember that you asked for it. Now grow the balls to do it.

Response by SPC S Meeder made Oct 7 at 2022 5:06 PM

SPC S Meeder — Fri, 07 Oct 2022 17:06:23 -0400

Suck it up and do your job. You don't need more than 4 hours a day and they do not have to come all at once. Try doing PT at 0530 then working 0700 - 1800-2100 every night for 3-4 weeks at a time and often working Saturdays during services. 2-3 week deployments every other month, 1-2 month deployments every quarter, tell us how you have it so hard.

Response by SGM Ronald Cheatom made Oct 8 at 2022 10:34 AM

SGM Ronald Cheatom — Sat, 08 Oct 2022 10:34:20 -0400

Quit whining and go to PT. You are a soldier. Being a soldier can be rough, and tough, so be that way.

Response by SGT Evan Farley made Oct 8 at 2022 12:44 PM

SGT Evan Farley — Sat, 08 Oct 2022 12:44:48 -0400

Stop being soft and go do PT.

Response by SFC Chet Crump made Oct 8 at 2022 1:40 PM

SFC Chet Crump — Sat, 08 Oct 2022 13:40:40 -0400

Get over yourself. Too many times I was in that situation and I survived. Get over yourself, you are not and will not ever be the only one with that amt of sleep. Wait until you get your 4th point of contact kicked for letting your fello soldier do your part and he or she kicks your ass.

Response by SGT Kenneth Durman made Oct 8 at 2022 2:22 PM

SGT Kenneth Durman — Sat, 08 Oct 2022 14:22:33 -0400

Suck it up! You are in the armed forces. If you can't do what needs to be done to be combat ready 100%. Find a new career.

Response by SGT Brian Jarvi made Oct 8 at 2022 6:02 PM

SGT Brian Jarvi — Sat, 08 Oct 2022 18:02:08 -0400

I remember dry scraping a razor across my face on the way to formation. I also remember being awake for 5 days in the field. You can’t even remember your name after that. The bottom line is you signed up now you do what you are told. Quit whining about it. In 25 years in the Army, I’ve been thru lots worse.

Response by SFC Karin Moten made Oct 8 at 2022 9:20 PM

SFC Karin Moten — Sat, 08 Oct 2022 21:20:23 -0400

Safety is always first-period! Speaking from a Safety Manager's perspective, now, from a DI point of view, no one cared that I was tired as an E5 Drill Sgt. At Ft. Sill, do you think it mattered that I was exhausted from training/running with the males? No, I had to do my job, and it was a beast to keep up with them. My "battles" (fellow DIs) had my back, especially from a safety perspective; however, I had to maintain Army standards, prioritize and readjust with time management skills which are doable. After becoming a Senior NCO, Time Management skills were imperative and remained a crucial skill to maintain.
Best wishes.

Response by LCpl Paul Miller made Oct 8 at 2022 10:26 PM

LCpl Paul Miller — Sat, 08 Oct 2022 22:26:42 -0400

I'm sorry cupcake! Damn that's some tough shit for you to handle. PT on just 4 hours sleep. Man I'd sue. That is a violation of your cupcake rights!

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Oct 9 at 2022 5:53 AM

SSG Shawn Mcfadden — Sun, 09 Oct 2022 05:53:52 -0400

TIME MANAGEMENT SOLDIER.

Response by SPC Bob Tolford made Oct 9 at 2022 1:03 PM

SPC Bob Tolford — Sun, 09 Oct 2022 13:03:45 -0400

I've spent nights as a junior enlisted artilleryman without ANY sleep after a long night of hanging out at the GI bars during foreign assignments (thank goodness THOSE days are over) and never once did I consider the notion of missing out on PT. No one ever questioned it. I knew when I signed up that I would have to do whatever I was told to do by senior enlisted or officers. What "isn't right" as you put it, is going against orders (unless they defy the Geneva Convention".

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 9 at 2022 2:17 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 09 Oct 2022 14:17:40 -0400

You're a soldier you do what you are ordered to do. Have you never read about what American Soldiers have done throughout history and especially during WWI & WWII? The enemy will not wait until you are well rested, or well fed. You must train your mind and body to be a razor. Your rifle isn't your weapon! It's your determination, and willingness to do what must be done. That's your weapon.

Response by SSG Peter Price made Oct 9 at 2022 3:03 PM

SSG Peter Price — Sun, 09 Oct 2022 15:03:51 -0400

Simple solution... you go to PT!

Response by SP5 Evart Bunger made Oct 9 at 2022 5:12 PM

SP5 Evart Bunger — Sun, 09 Oct 2022 17:12:18 -0400

Don't go to war. You will find that 4 or 5 hours of sleep is a "boatload." Of course I'm speaking of 11Bravo MOS - Vietnam 67-68 Central Highland Jungles. Never to happen again, so chalk it up as a history lesson. The modern warrior needs 8 straight to function properly.

Response by LCDR Adam Barron made Oct 10 at 2022 3:02 AM

LCDR Adam Barron — Mon, 10 Oct 2022 03:02:24 -0400

Dear Ashley, I'm just seeing this and I hope you got the help you needed. You're working in a hospital, not undergoing Seal Training. I understand why you felt stuck. Would you have a progress update?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 10 at 2022 7:39 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Oct 2022 07:39:28 -0400

You could provide a regulation that fits your complaint with your concern of safety to patients if any. Go through het chain of command first. If that does not work you could go to hospital chaplain or IG just for them to know as in "FYIi" for your information in confidentiality and not make any complaint but to let them know. It may not change it but it would be something you tried in case a problems occurred due to lack of rest. I remember this same complaint with the soldiers in Hospital was brought up. There may not be much of a a choice than to suck it up. Possibly get rest at the hospital during any down times if any with the team at hand. I never worked those hours so I would not know.

Response by CPO Paul Davis made Oct 10 at 2022 11:39 AM

CPO Paul Davis — Mon, 10 Oct 2022 11:39:17 -0400

You're whining. Get your butt to pt

Response by SFC Paul Garza made Oct 11 at 2022 3:34 AM

SFC Paul Garza — Tue, 11 Oct 2022 03:34:38 -0400

I had to read this twice to make sure I read it correctly.

I'm sure you're a great kid but no one is coming to save you. You have to be your own hero. Your time in the military will define who you are. It will either make you better and stronger or it will break you and reveal who you have always been.

There are 24 hours in a day and there will always be 24 hours in a day. You work a shift from 1600 -0000. What are you doing with the rest of your time? I might be a little crazier than most, but it still looks like an 8-hour shift to me. What are you doing with the other 16 hours aside from looking for an excuse to not be accounted for at the 1st Formation of the day and conducting physical fitness training to fortify your health?

Your 1SG should have never needed to tell everyone to show up. Your 1st line leader should have been chasing you down to make sure you were doing PT every morning with everyone else to begin with. You can be mad at your 1SG, but I say the failure to be at PT started with you and went all the way to the 1SGs door until he squashed it and demanded accountability.

Response by SFC Paul Garza made Oct 11 at 2022 4:13 AM

SFC Paul Garza — Tue, 11 Oct 2022 04:13:46 -0400

I don't get it. Go to PT formation, what's the problem? You get off at 0000. Go home, get some sleep, show up to PT formation and then go back home and get some more rest. What's the problem?

I could type a long response about my time in the military but who cares, right? You will always have to do things you don't like or want to do.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Now from a leader/mentor POV.
* What does the rest/work plan look like?

* How is accountability conducted with medics in the hospital vs medics in the organization?

* You don't work alone, you work with a section at the hospital, what is everyone else doing?

* Why hasn't your PSG implemented a PT program that allows you to go home and rest for 8 hours and then your platoon do PT before going back on shift at 1600?

I was under the belief that those who worked at the hospital fell under two commands, the hospital commander who oversaw the operations of the hospital and those assigned the hospital and then the assigned command who they report to for accountability and roll call.

Response by SFC Wade Adams made Oct 11 at 2022 6:50 AM

SFC Wade Adams — Tue, 11 Oct 2022 06:50:20 -0400

Are you really posting this? You’re doing exactly what you don’t want to sound like . 4 or 5 hours of sleep?! Sometimes we went to PT without 4or 5 minutes of sleep and deployments? Huh, don’t get me started. I know that sleep deprivation used to be taught in the Army. All I can say is soft and that’s putting it mildly.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 11 at 2022 9:11 AM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 11 Oct 2022 09:11:50 -0400

It's called embrace the suck, this guy lmao

Response by CPT Daniel Helix made Oct 11 at 2022 3:14 PM

CPT Daniel Helix — Tue, 11 Oct 2022 15:14:49 -0400

SFC Mike is spot on, son. What did you think you wer joining when you signed up. Didn't hear that complaint during my 34 years. Grousing about it, sure; asking for advice to try to get someone out of it, nope.

Response by CMSgt Donald ONeill made Oct 11 at 2022 10:56 PM

CMSgt Donald ONeill — Tue, 11 Oct 2022 22:56:56 -0400

Always follow orders then go to your commander or first shirt . That's why they have the rank to take care of their troops .

Response by MSgt Michael Madden made Oct 12 at 2022 12:08 PM

MSgt Michael Madden — Wed, 12 Oct 2022 12:08:25 -0400

I do not see a problem just a failure to realize that you enlisted in a volunteer military. You can decide to avoid re-enlisting on your next reenlistment but then you will stop getting benefits.

Response by LTC Karen McKay made Oct 12 at 2022 8:17 PM

LTC Karen McKay — Wed, 12 Oct 2022 20:17:08 -0400

Your ARE whining, You're in the damned Army. Suck it up, or get out and find a life where you can be coddled.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2022 12:21 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Oct 2022 12:21:33 -0400

Are you in the military? If the answer is Yes, suck it up buttercup. What do you think your schedule will be if Biden sucks us into WW3?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2022 4:58 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Oct 2022 16:58:10 -0400

Suck it up is a non answer. Since you are working a hospital shift you're obviously not working a schedule like the majority of most soldiers. Your 1SG is new to the unit and doesn't understand the current state of operations. I would bring it back up to your supervisor and see if a compromise can be reached. If that doesn't work, ask to use the open door policy with the commander. If you do use the open door policy, bring a couple plans with you that would allow you to work PT into your daily routine. Don't just show up and say I'm not being treated fairly, have a suggestion for a resolution, otherwise it will only sound like you are complaining. Just make sure you give your NCO support channel a chance to fix things before you go to the open door option.

Response by CSM Richard Montcalm made Oct 14 at 2022 6:56 AM

CSM Richard Montcalm — Fri, 14 Oct 2022 06:56:40 -0400

No one ever said that the duty day had to be on 'your' schedule. You are on the verge of becoming a Non-Commissioned Officer; act like you are one now and figure out your time management- either choose to adjust to the needs of the command or tell your first line supervisor that you are not NCO material. NCOs make life and death decisions EVERY DAY- if you cant make a decision on how to work around the problem, how are you going to do that with the lives of America's most precious asset- your Soldiers?

Response by CW5 William Gasaway made Oct 14 at 2022 3:59 PM

CW5 William Gasaway — Fri, 14 Oct 2022 15:59:29 -0400

I spent thirty-one years in the Army and learned two important lessons:
1) Eat whenever you can!
2) Sleep whenever you can!
BECAUSE you never know when the next opportunity will arise.
As anyone from PVT to COL in the 226th MEDLOG Battalion would tell you;
STOP YOUR WHINING AND GET TO WORK!!!

Oh and like SGT Cameron, I'm in my 70's

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 15 at 2022 8:56 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Oct 2022 20:56:00 -0400

You are whining, and in the military. Time to grow up. Sorry to sound harsh, but having spent 20 years in the Army with 10 deployments, complaining about having to go do PT is just too much.

Response by SPC Kenneth James made Oct 16 at 2022 2:17 AM

SPC Kenneth James — Sun, 16 Oct 2022 02:17:19 -0400

I have to go with a lot of comments on this thread see I say working in the hospital setting seems to me you would have special times because when you get called in I imagine you are up and in there to take care of the best and most important part of the Army and that is the soldiers see most of us brought the less then two or three hours because of the clubs or being with that girl you are going out with or the skating rink or the colleges around the base where was I going with this o yeah lmao you working should not have to get liquor gas in your mouth from running pt in formation that is why I used to get the road guard vest lol I really hope you get this solved soldier but in the mean time keep a stiff upper lip and use your head to figure it out

Response by PO1 Vince Shavico made Oct 16 at 2022 9:59 AM

PO1 Vince Shavico — Sun, 16 Oct 2022 09:59:30 -0400

I once was up for almost 56 hours straight. I put in a special request chit for 6 hours of uninterrupted sleep. It was denied. The XO wrote on the chit, "he will get enough sleep when he is dead". That is now my motto. Suck it up buttercup.

Response by SP5 Derick Johnsohne made Oct 16 at 2022 5:29 PM

SP5 Derick Johnsohne — Sun, 16 Oct 2022 17:29:31 -0400

when in the trenches, you might not get 4-5 hrs of sleep

Response by SSG James Knopp made Nov 9 at 2022 12:56 AM

SSG James Knopp — Wed, 09 Nov 2022 00:56:33 -0500

I can remember when I was in the NCO Academy one of my soldiers rolled out for PT a little worse for wear. But, he soldiered through the session and two mile run.
When did the Army start “bankers hours?” PT was mandatory for everyone at 0530, no exceptions.
If you don’t understand the time management concept then maybe you should find a different MOS or have manned up a bit before joining the service. Back in the day we were trained to accept that you may not get your “beauty sleep”, three squares a day, or even a warm clean bunk.
What the hell happened to our military?

Response by MSgt David Mcnamee made Nov 9 at 2022 12:43 PM

MSgt David Mcnamee — Wed, 09 Nov 2022 12:43:12 -0500

You suck it up and show up for PT. When the Command asks for your opinion or do a Command Climate survey, then you respectfully address the problem. PT is not a voluntary thing, duty is not a voluntary thing. You volunteered for this way of life, showing up for PT after a few hours of sleep is easy.

Response by SSG Ted Williams made Nov 9 at 2022 9:24 PM

SSG Ted Williams — Wed, 09 Nov 2022 21:24:51 -0500

Embrace the suck! War don't wait just because you are tired.

Response by SGT Patrick Jackson made Nov 10 at 2022 10:09 AM

SGT Patrick Jackson — Thu, 10 Nov 2022 10:09:07 -0500

Suck it up butter cup! Can’t even remember how many times I showed up for PT with less than 3 hrs.

Response by SPC Randy Torgerson made Nov 10 at 2022 11:38 AM

SPC Randy Torgerson — Thu, 10 Nov 2022 11:38:56 -0500

Sister I don't know what has happened to the Military since my day, but you just have to do it. Does it suck? You betcha. Is the discipline important? You betcha. Maybe and I just mean maybe, using your chain of command to request a new time frame for PT based on your schedule. There is likely others on your shift as well that could use a different PT time. I would ask your co-workers first then put a plan together and offer up the plan via your chain of command. Good luck.

Response by SSG William M Davis made Nov 10 at 2022 12:13 PM

SSG William M Davis — Thu, 10 Nov 2022 12:13:18 -0500

Suck it up. The Army owns your ass 24/7.

Response by CPL Anthony Chase made Nov 10 at 2022 5:21 PM

CPL Anthony Chase — Thu, 10 Nov 2022 17:21:55 -0500

You are in the US Army, working all night and running five miles the following day is in your job description, get over it and drive on with the mission!

Response by PFC Lacey Burke made Nov 12 at 2022 1:20 PM

PFC Lacey Burke — Sat, 12 Nov 2022 13:20:26 -0500

You are only required to have 4 hours sleep in a 24 hour period.
Train as we fight.
Will the enemy wait for us to be rested?
You're setting yourself up for a rude awakening when things heat up again

Response by SFC Larry Bennett made Nov 12 at 2022 11:21 PM

SFC Larry Bennett — Sat, 12 Nov 2022 23:21:31 -0500

You get your tired ass up and gi to PT cream puff!!!!

Response by A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney made Nov 13 at 2022 2:01 AM

A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney — Sun, 13 Nov 2022 02:01:51 -0500

You Poor Little SOB..
During The Cuban Crisis......Do You Remember The Cuban Crisis?
Anyway.....We Worked 12 Hour Shifts 7Days A Week..
No Days Off, Just Work Like All "L" ,With Short Lunch Breaks...
Loading B-52's With Nukes....AWE.. I Guess I SHOULD Feel Bad For You....
Only 4 - 5 Hours Sleep?...

BITE ME !!!

Response by Maj Robert Larkowski made Nov 13 at 2022 10:03 AM

Maj Robert Larkowski — Sun, 13 Nov 2022 10:03:11 -0500

As I read on probably on Army t-shirt, "Enjoy the Suck"

Response by 1SG Daniel Frawley made Nov 13 at 2022 7:38 PM

1SG Daniel Frawley — Sun, 13 Nov 2022 19:38:59 -0500

I am a retired 1SG so my advice: Suck it up cupcake. Many times I had to do a 5 miler coming back from "local shenanigans" on no sleep. Do you think you should get 8 hours of rack?

Response by SP5 Wick Humble made Nov 13 at 2022 8:33 PM

SP5 Wick Humble — Sun, 13 Nov 2022 20:33:09 -0500

Half-facetiously: you hadn't considered complaining about a bone spur?

Response by SPC Larry Cook made Nov 13 at 2022 8:41 PM

SPC Larry Cook — Sun, 13 Nov 2022 20:41:40 -0500

Shut up and obay your orders.
End of the story.

Response by MSgt Janice Trojan made Nov 13 at 2022 11:11 PM

MSgt Janice Trojan — Sun, 13 Nov 2022 23:11:43 -0500

Great question! I have a dear friend that doesn't say he was a veteran because he was in Korea his SSG didn't like him so for a year. Made him work as mechanic and then do 8 hours as mail man Korean mail. Wasn't dishonorable but wasn't honorable would love to fix, Great guy!

Response by PO3 Michael MacKay made Nov 14 at 2022 11:01 AM

PO3 Michael MacKay — Mon, 14 Nov 2022 11:01:22 -0500

Says "I don't want to whine" starts whining. :)

On submarine duty, there were qualifications, watch duty, training, more qualifications, field day, more trainng, more quals...pulled a 54 hr straight once on ten pots of coffee and I hit my goal being a hot runner on quals and supported the watch roatation, so, if you are going to whine about a little PT this ain't the gig for you in life...go manage a Wendy's.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2022 7:34 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Nov 2022 19:34:50 -0500

I don’t know why I’m just getting an email about this 3 years after it was posted, but I do have an opinion about this.

It’s BS, and so are a lot of these comments. “Going to clubs and showing up to PT.”
“You can sleep after PT.”

Those are all BS, old school answers. And quite honestly, those answers have no place these days. Congratulations. Some of these commenters had shitty lives in their careers and expect everyone else to also have a shitty life.

The correct answer is that people’s leadership need to take into account each of their soldiers’ schedules and plan/accommodate accordingly.

If someone works 1600-0000, they should be allowed to do PT on their own at whatever time they, individually, feel necessary. Whether it’s at 0030, 0600, 1400, whatever. If they check in through text/call (in place of a formal formation), I don’t see an issue.

Response by PO3 Bobby Quisenberry made Nov 15 at 2022 12:25 AM

PO3 Bobby Quisenberry — Tue, 15 Nov 2022 00:25:20 -0500

You'd never make it as a SEAL!

Response by SSG Billy Claggett made Nov 15 at 2022 5:41 AM

SSG Billy Claggett — Tue, 15 Nov 2022 05:41:28 -0500

Quit fkin crying and do what the fk your told

Response by SGT Rhonda Rawson made Nov 16 at 2022 10:28 AM

SGT Rhonda Rawson — Wed, 16 Nov 2022 10:28:21 -0500

Man up soldier. Quit whining about and just do it.

Dang I would so hate to be in todays army where newbies pull stress cards and people whine about not getting enough sleep and being overworked. Back in the ‘80’s to early 2000 we had each others backs, we stood up together, and we did what we were told to do. Period.

Response by SGT Frank Hewes made Nov 30 at 2022 10:48 PM

SGT Frank Hewes — Wed, 30 Nov 2022 22:48:22 -0500

Maybe shower and hit the rack after PT.

Response by SPC Steven Nihipali made Dec 10 at 2022 12:56 PM

SPC Steven Nihipali — Sat, 10 Dec 2022 12:56:08 -0500

I would go ask hospital leadership. What did you learn about self care right here at Ft Sam? If you're not medical, yeah, get your butt to formation. If you are, talk to your team leader. Then go up the line.

Response by SGT Wayne Grindstaff made Dec 11 at 2022 8:05 PM

SGT Wayne Grindstaff — Sun, 11 Dec 2022 20:05:03 -0500

My Co had a perfect response to a 2nd Lt. that complained his men weren't getting enough sleep. Understand we were in a active combat area, all he said was "The Army says a solider only needs 2 hours sleep a day, be happy with that". My Co was a West Pointer and highly respected by all of us that served under him. Not getting sleep is good training for after the service, whether is working 36 hours straight on double time or a party weekend.

Response by SSgt Ann Kovarik made Dec 12 at 2022 1:58 AM

SSgt Ann Kovarik — Mon, 12 Dec 2022 01:58:52 -0500

Suck it up buttercup!

Response by SPC Carlton Phelps made Dec 12 at 2022 9:31 AM

SPC Carlton Phelps — Mon, 12 Dec 2022 09:31:54 -0500

You don't solve this. You get off your butt and get busy. As our DS told us, in 1969, will you be complaining about being tired as you are being shot at? I worked out with stress fractures in both feet. Of course, I'm paying for that now, but we had only a couple of ways to get out of PT and neither was much of a choice.
You enlisted and these men are there to train you and maybe save your life later. I hated them at the time but I learned I could handle much more than I thought.

Response by CWO5 Jeffrey Backus made Dec 12 at 2022 3:59 PM

CWO5 Jeffrey Backus — Mon, 12 Dec 2022 15:59:51 -0500

Is this daily? or a few times a week? I'd say suck it up, PT and keep yourself fit.

Response by SSgt Steven Stone made Dec 12 at 2022 8:29 PM

SSgt Steven Stone — Mon, 12 Dec 2022 20:29:41 -0500

Here’s how ya solve it- your Junior enlisted and your command issued an order- you go to pt- plain and simple.

Response by SPC David C. made Dec 13 at 2022 12:26 AM

SPC David C. — Tue, 13 Dec 2022 00:26:54 -0500

You said it yourself, you're "junior" enlisted. You go to PT and get it done. Not sure why this is even a question. You want out of it? Show your first shirt you're a PT stud. Max out E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G and he'll find someone else to focus on. Until you can do that, you need to understand you're at the bottom of the food chain and anything you do to stir the pot is going to make things harder on you.

Response by SGT Dave Adams made Dec 13 at 2022 1:11 PM

SGT Dave Adams — Tue, 13 Dec 2022 13:11:10 -0500

Sounds like you're whining. I have come in to do PT on 1/2 hour's sleep, and it didn't have any adverse effects. And you're on the E-5 list? You should know better. Here's an idea - run the issue past your NCO support channel and see what they say. Use the Chain of Command. It's been known to work

Response by SGT Deborah Jones-deleon made Dec 13 at 2022 11:37 PM

SGT Deborah Jones-deleon — Tue, 13 Dec 2022 23:37:03 -0500

Quit being a pushy or get out of the military. Suck it up and drive on soldier

Response by GySgt Charles O'Connell made Dec 18 at 2022 6:43 PM

GySgt Charles O'Connell — Sun, 18 Dec 2022 18:43:30 -0500

Wow! Only 5 showed up to what I can only assume is a Co. C.O. ordered event. I think maybe there are greater problems within this unit.

Response by Sgt Luis Bonilla made Jan 8 at 2023 3:26 PM

Sgt Luis Bonilla — Sun, 08 Jan 2023 15:26:22 -0500

Adjust and overcome you voluntarily accepted to join the the finest and BEST military in the world you HAVE to adjust and overcome any obstacle it’s mine over matter

Response by CWO4 Tim Hecht made Jan 8 at 2023 9:30 PM

CWO4 Tim Hecht — Sun, 08 Jan 2023 21:30:10 -0500

SPC(P) Davis - I may feel your pain but I have no sympathy for you. Callous? Pretty sure that I am with my comment. Your brothers and sisters in arms are the tip of the proverbial spear and if lucky exist on 8 hours of sleep spread out over 3 days. Your comment indicates you are assigned to a hospital. Seek out any Medic at your unit who has served in an active combat zone - ask them to tell you about a typical day while serving with a combat unit.

I worked with an Air Force reserve nurse who deployed several times to a hospital in Baghdad, Iraq whose mission was trying to save the lives of Soldiers, Airman, Marines, and Sailors who were critically injured by snipers, suicide bombers, or roadside IEDs. She didn't want to talk about it at work but she did (still does) have a strong support group. I know a former Army Medic sho suffered from PTSD - why you ask? Squirrel (his nickname) was hung up on "I couldn't save them all." I don't imagine he got a lot of sleep on active duty and know without "chemical" help he spent many a sleepless night - even in rehab.

I won't insult you with some of the comments that could come your way, have come your way, or not; but I grew up in the military starting as an immature 18 year old in 1970 and used to listen to the more "senior" enlisted (when they were in a sharing mood) say it all works out in twenty years. It does.

On a side note, but related to PT: I'm 70-1/2 years old and at the direction of my Primary Care Doctor, my Cardiologist, and the Cardio-Thoracic Surgeon I start PT 2 days a week, for 2 hours a day, for 12 weeks. At least I have the luxury of picking what time of day I get to start. I opted for the afternoon session. Is it mandatory. No but it is voluntary; but if I want to live beyond 70-1/2 years old I need to do it. On the 1st of December last year (It seems like it just happened - wait it did!) I had a Triple Bypass. After 30 years of dealing with cardiac issues I finally had a team of doctors who all agreed that the bypass surgery was a life saver for me.

So SPC(P) Davis when the "whistle" blows for PT fall in sharply and due the best you can - you could end up in a combat zone where sleep comes in 10 - 15 minutes pauses in between casualties. I don't know what your MOS is but you're assigned to a hospital so I suspect its a medical field related job - you may not be a medic working in a squad, platoon, or company but you won't be far from the action; and you will probably reflect on those days when a few hours of your sleep were interrupted by PT.

Response by PO2 John Harker made Jan 8 at 2023 10:16 PM

PO2 John Harker — Sun, 08 Jan 2023 22:16:53 -0500

Short answer, life is not going to bend over backwards for you, in the military or out, so embrace the suck.
You've got options here. Senior leadershipay not see it, but the fact is military life doesn't always run on a 24 hour clock. Sometimes it runs on 12 or 15. It takes a couple weeks to adjust to that.
On my deployments, General Quarters and main space fire drills took place in the dead middle of the off periods for the 2330-0530/1130-1730 watches and lasted a good 2 hours.
First option: run a 12 hour day. Up at 1530 on one, work til 0001, in bed at 0100. Up at 0500, pt 2 hours or whatever, then a mix of sleep and personal time til 1530.
The new command is throwing it's weight around, that's all. This crap lasts a week at most, then stops.
Second choice: PT on your own and don't show up at formation. This will probably get you an article 15. More on this in a minute.
Third choice: talk to your immediate supervisor. He or she should be able to find out what the new chain of command expects in PT formation, and then have your shift do their own pt either right before or right after work.
The best solution, though, is the first one, at least til your NCO gets a new formation time approved. There are going to be times when you're running in empty and more needed of you, day after day. In this case, the only consequence if you fail is an Article 15 for missing PT (don't scrimp on patient care to make it to formation). In a war zone, the consequences could include loss of your entire unit. If your chain of command never pushed you like this, you wouldn't be prepared for war.
Upper leadership shouldn't act all shocked that this happens. If your soldiers can't handle this, they're not fit for combat. It should motivate them to PT on their own after a few days, then the stupid PT muster time can be changed or dropped. If they don't respond to it, there's a process for separating those who can't meet the physical fitness requirements. They don't deploy, and after the third failed PRT, they get an admin sep.
Civilian life doesn't always run on a 24 hour clock either. You might separate and find yourself working two jobs to make ends meet and have those exact same hours. In that case, they're not going to change just for you, one or both of them is gonna dismiss you. Civilian hospital employees are on call 24/7 and sometimes go a day or two without personal/family time and short on sleep. They're not on base with the hospital right there, they may have to commute 1 1/2 hours each way or stay overnight in an empty room.

Response by PO1 Kevin Dougherty made Jan 8 at 2023 10:48 PM

PO1 Kevin Dougherty — Sun, 08 Jan 2023 22:48:06 -0500

Just speaking generally here. In the USCG at least, only the mid-watch, (0000-0400 or 0000-0800 depending on specific unit or watch,) was exempted from morning quarters. 0000-0400 was allowed rack time until 1000, 0000-0800 was generally off until their next duty. On SAR stations, if you had a call that either began after 0000 or ended after 0000, you were generally allowed to sleep in as needed. Calls 6 to 8 hours or more on a cold, dark, stormy night are nothing to be sneered at.

Response by LCDR Rob Rosenbaum made Jan 9 at 2023 8:32 AM

LCDR Rob Rosenbaum — Mon, 09 Jan 2023 08:32:50 -0500

First, follow orders. Learning to do so will save your life one day. Second, assess the situation before you take it to the chain. Perform the function as instructed for at least 1 month. THEN provide feedback to the command as to the feasibility and or fatigue state of the crew impact. Be able to identify the negative readiness impact on your section. If you can't do this it will be considered whining or complaining. Your feedback needs to be for the betterment of the Armed Forces not for yourself. When you take it to the chain start at the bottom! Follow the appropriate chain of command - ask to have the issue elevated if it feels stalled. You will gain a better understanding of each member's issues and concerns along the way not to mention respect for doing so.

Response by SGT John Prolo made Jan 9 at 2023 10:20 AM

SGT John Prolo — Mon, 09 Jan 2023 10:20:50 -0500

Ahhh…this new Army. I’m sure there’s a career out there for someone of your caliber who needs 8 hours of sleep. When I was in Iraq I needed at least 8 hours of sleep before I could do my duties. I just don’t understand why your command won’t grant your wish!

Response by CPL Bifd Tannen made Jan 9 at 2023 5:54 PM

CPL Bifd Tannen — Mon, 09 Jan 2023 17:54:26 -0500

Go explain it to whoever your supposed to report to for your shift, or the tippy top person that they fall under. Then ask them to go clear it up. If it's an officer that you fall under then your Top's balls will moat likely get grilled.... win/win

Response by SFC Herbert Taitingfong made Jan 10 at 2023 3:00 AM

SFC Herbert Taitingfong — Tue, 10 Jan 2023 03:00:52 -0500

If your section sergeant feels the same way as you, then he/she should suggest to your 1SG/CDR if your sections could conduct PT at 1430 -1530, right before work, and ask them to join you guys in PT. The command is only looking out for your health, wellness and wellbeing. They understand that they inherited a company that does section PT because of the shift workers and l'm sure that your leadership attends morning/leaders mtg, they should be addressing the issue. Anyway, passing the PT test keeps you in the military and the only way to do that is to stay fit and to stay fit is to do PT. So it's part "time management" on your side and part "personnel management" on the command side
I use to work in the hospital, LRMC, so I've been there and done that with working clinic hours and shift work hours ER/ EMS.

Response by MSgt Betsy Mamo made Jan 10 at 2023 11:23 AM

MSgt Betsy Mamo — Tue, 10 Jan 2023 11:23:04 -0500

Well, how about 1500 PT? I propose that, and tell the shirt you will maintain the sign-in sheet.

Response by SSgt William Quinn made Jan 11 at 2023 8:56 AM

SSgt William Quinn — Wed, 11 Jan 2023 08:56:17 -0500

Your enemy is laughing at you.

Response by Klieta Bagwell made Jan 11 at 2023 9:32 AM

Klieta Bagwell — Wed, 11 Jan 2023 09:32:22 -0500

I'm 74, at your age, I could get 4 hours of sleep, rise at 0400 and do hours of exercise, work a full day, party a little and do it over again. If you are under 60, suck it up, cause I still do it daily on 6 hours of sleep or less, running a horse rescue. I am sorry, you need to know you will never grow old if you keep your mind and body in shape, and get a better attitude. Your 1SG & CO are only looking after the health and welfare of their people. And for heaven's sake quit whining.

Response by SGT Erick Holmes made Jan 11 at 2023 5:29 PM

SGT Erick Holmes — Wed, 11 Jan 2023 17:29:57 -0500

Go through your chain of command to bring up the issues. Everyone knows that while on active duty you have to do PT. You are lucky that you have a choice of what time you want to pt. It sounds like your 1SG is trying to make a point. If you have shift to work from 1600-0000 and have the rest of the day for yourself then do the 0530 and by 7 ish you should be done and in the rack.

Response by SPC Duane Anderson made Jan 11 at 2023 6:11 PM

SPC Duane Anderson — Wed, 11 Jan 2023 18:11:21 -0500

Make them look like assholes. Do both PT sessions. Be a man

Response by 1SG David Falk made Jan 12 at 2023 12:07 AM

1SG David Falk — Thu, 12 Jan 2023 00:07:34 -0500

You. Go. To. PT.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2023 12:15 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Jan 2023 00:15:49 -0500

Suck it up and follow orders

Response by SPC Daniel Dresen made Jan 12 at 2023 2:47 AM

SPC Daniel Dresen — Thu, 12 Jan 2023 02:47:41 -0500

Back in my day, (damn I sound old) FM-22 only mandated you get 4 hours... now it's 7 non consecutive hours in a 24 hour period so... get 4, do PT, shower, eat, and go back to sleep. Problem solved.

Response by CPL T.A. Nelson made Jan 12 at 2023 6:02 AM

CPL T.A. Nelson — Thu, 12 Jan 2023 06:02:05 -0500

This is the job. The military doesn't give you the option of making a schedule for sleep, you have to make do. During PMCS you may be able to sneak in a nap but all lower enlisted goes to work with very little sleep at times. Suck it up soldier...

Response by 1SG Arthur Kristiansen made Jan 12 at 2023 7:45 AM

1SG Arthur Kristiansen — Thu, 12 Jan 2023 07:45:33 -0500

I am encouraged that most officers and senior NCOs here agree on the same solution; namely take it up the chain of command. Good NCOs take care of their men. Good officers take care of their men. But don't forget that the guy in charge makes the final decision. Otherwise we don't have an army - we have a mob. That answers the kid's question. Nuff said. Let's move on...
Oops, sorry about only talking about the army. The same goes for the rest of the other lesser branches of military service as well. Just kidding!!!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2023 1:24 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Jan 2023 13:24:06 -0500

I would work a 10-12 hour 3rd shift, go to PT in the morning, then go home and rack out. If there's an opportunity to switch shifts, I would say go for it. If not, then you may need to work better at your time management during your off time from when PT ends to when your next shift begins which seems like a pretty large gap in time.

Response by PO2 Ronnie Chandler made Jan 13 at 2023 11:39 AM

PO2 Ronnie Chandler — Fri, 13 Jan 2023 11:39:37 -0500

Your in the military lack of sleep is normal. As the saying goes suck it up and get to pt or get out. When you get into battle the enemy isn't gonna say go take a nap and we'll come back. Sheesh I bet you can party all night and still go party some more

Response by PO3 Mary Ellen Ringel Deen made Jan 14 at 2023 2:24 PM

PO3 Mary Ellen Ringel Deen — Sat, 14 Jan 2023 14:24:23 -0500

Suck it up and quit being a whiner!

Response by SGT Milton Pridemore made Jan 15 at 2023 10:56 PM

SGT Milton Pridemore — Sun, 15 Jan 2023 22:56:50 -0500

Suck it up butter cup! As a few troops here have mentioned being on time after a hard night's drinking just in time for a 5 mile fun run and a day of humping 204 pound projectiles! You can do it!!!

Response by CSM John Cartwright made Feb 12 at 2023 4:05 PM

CSM John Cartwright — Sun, 12 Feb 2023 16:05:52 -0500

DEAL WITH IT AND DRIVE ON

Response by SSG Brian Pearce made Feb 16 at 2023 9:23 AM

SSG Brian Pearce — Thu, 16 Feb 2023 09:23:14 -0500

It sounds to me like your best bet is to do what you’re directed to do until your ETS date. Then ETS and you won’t have to worry about those mean 1SG’s making you do PT anymore.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2023 1:20 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 19 Feb 2023 01:20:38 -0500

I would just go to sleep after PT. When I was on a shift like that I went to sleep at 0800.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2023 6:01 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Mar 2023 18:01:43 -0400

Go to pt….

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2023 7:17 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Mar 2023 07:17:59 -0400

Go to PT and stop being a bitch.

Response by TSgt Tommy Amparano made Mar 15 at 2023 6:41 PM

TSgt Tommy Amparano — Wed, 15 Mar 2023 18:41:45 -0400

How do you bring it up? Have you tried bringing it up to your supervisor? Maybe they will let you show up to the 1600 formation, then go to work? I would not say it is whining to ask the question. Complaining about the answer would be whining. Oh and FYI, you are going to have to explain yourself until people can trust you. That is just a fact of life.

Response by SGT L. Ski made Mar 15 at 2023 7:24 PM

SGT L. Ski — Wed, 15 Mar 2023 19:24:14 -0400

Wow. Is this for real? You joined the military and this is what you're complaining about? Maybe you should have joined the Boy Scouts instead.
I guess the Navy trained us to do anything drunk/hungover because a lot of days there wasn't any sleep...
I can't believe someone actually asked this...

Response by CSM Carlson C. made Mar 16 at 2023 2:35 PM

CSM Carlson C. — Thu, 16 Mar 2023 14:35:08 -0400

Wow, I remember those days. However, I would present to your 1SG a solution to your problem versus "sounding" like a complaint. In my junior days on active duty, I was majority shift work. We presented that the section can do PT as a group outside of the company formation. If, however, we had an APFT failure, they would have to do PT with the company and additional PT. That was how it was presented, and our particular 1SGs were accommodating because they understood the difficulties of shift work. But you know your PLT SGT and 1SG. Ensure you can convey the proposed solution, pros, and cons, and articulate possible questions they may have. Also, the Section NCO would provide a daily PERSTAT to 1SG.

That should get you started.

Just realized this is a bunch of years old......oh well.

Response by PO2 Paul Dempsey made Mar 16 at 2023 7:44 PM

PO2 Paul Dempsey — Thu, 16 Mar 2023 19:44:14 -0400

Sorry butter cup but do your job that includes being physically fit. The enemy won't care you only got 4 or 5 hours sleep. Learn to overcome what you precieve as unfair and realize in the end you'll be tougher, more fit and better able to survive what's thrown your way

Response by MAJ Mike Middleton made Mar 17 at 2023 9:16 AM

MAJ Mike Middleton — Fri, 17 Mar 2023 09:16:56 -0400

Go to bed earlier....

Response by SP5 Jerrel Don McFarland made Mar 17 at 2023 10:40 AM

SP5 Jerrel Don McFarland — Fri, 17 Mar 2023 10:40:12 -0400

Cant speak to the culture of todays military but there was a combat readiness requirement that physical conditioning was a significant factor in years past. Professional soldiers are fit physically and mentally. If you are looking for a reason to not follow his lawful order then apply for a deferment based on your physical issues or mental desire to be exempt from the oath you took when raising your right hand.

Response by SFC Christopher Van Loon made Mar 17 at 2023 2:50 PM

SFC Christopher Van Loon — Fri, 17 Mar 2023 14:50:50 -0400

There are a bunch of "I remember when it was so hard" replies. When does the 0800-1600 shift do PT? Probably 0530; this gives time for clean-up and breakfast before the shift. When does the 0000-0800 shift do PT? Probably 1600; 8 hours before shift. That sucks! It sounds to me that the 1SG is stuck in a different timeframe, not around-the-clock shifts. The senior NCOs need to discuss with him a better shift/PT schedule. Something akin to the early shift that does PT 2.5 hours before shift. This gives equity to all the shifts. No one coming in 8 hours early for PT and no one conducting PT with minimal sleep. It also aligns better with the rest of the Army's 10/11-hour days.

Response by SPC Robert Coventry made Mar 17 at 2023 3:50 PM

SPC Robert Coventry — Fri, 17 Mar 2023 15:50:41 -0400

Suck it up buttercup!

Response by TSgt Robert Wayne made Mar 17 at 2023 5:56 PM

TSgt Robert Wayne — Fri, 17 Mar 2023 17:56:08 -0400

I was a firefighter working 24 hrs shifts. It wasn't unusual for us to get off a shift in the morning and go straight to PT. You are a military member and belong to the military 24/7. You are ready to perform whatever task they require of you at any time of day or week. The sooner you realize this the faster you can quit whining about it. If you can't follow orders then the military is not for you. Don't re-enlist.

Response by SGT(P) Jody Hall made Mar 17 at 2023 7:10 PM

SGT(P) Jody Hall — Fri, 17 Mar 2023 19:10:54 -0400

As soon as I saw this post I deleted it. I just dug it out of my deleted file.

Like medical for 13.5 years I was a crew chief, I was as well for a tiny bit of time an enlisted pilot.
I understand 100% (or Army 110%). What you speak of.
I heard part of what you said about on the pt formation it was kinda like "the army of emptiness"
Just me saying that means I was in a harder army by a factor than yours soldier.
If you want it to stop talk to your IG or JAGG officer. Make every formation. You will want to leave with a honorable discharge.

Others mentioned the Army might not be for you. I get that. I enlisted in 85. OMG it was hard then and I can tell you my previous peers hondorus etc... they were like count yourself lucky you are here now and not then.

No about the regulations. If you are not strong enough to deal with this then this is really not the job for you.

You can manage your time to work through this transition.
This commander and 1st will like get called to the carpet by JAG or the BCSM or COL.
Now how you deal with it before that happens is up to you and the discharge you want to get...

So I am a Airborne Paratrooper. I am a crew chief, I am an aircraft structural repair man (I am a woman by the way)...

I started with Reagan and ended seconds before Obama...

For one reason and 1 reason only you can go to the IG and Say work/crew endurance.
You will get your way, and you will be out of the Army. Better you should be a liberal in a hospital than one working in the Army. Not GOOD FIT FOR YOU. iF YOU WERE MY SON i WOULD BE WORKING TO GET YOU OUT AS FAST AS POSSIBLE, FOR YOU.

Now back, in Iraq, Kosovo, I was so lucky to be on leave for 30 days (RIGHT never happens, soldier of the year). So I did not have to go to Panama. I was on vacation that month. NC Ca. They were like Sgt by the time you get home it will be done anyhow.
Basically it was MOSTLY.

Basic, you work 18 hours a day, PLDC you work 18 hours a day, BNOC 8 hours a day.
Look old timers back me up here....
Airborne school 12-18 hours a day, air assault school 12-18 hours a day.
Sapper school 24 hours a day..... (I passed Sapper Leader School).
Ranger I failed I quit.
Q Course. after rucking 50 miles I said. "I am so glad I passed and I don't have to do this anymore."
They said SGT, this is the training like Basic or Airborne was. You should probably, honestly quit now. We do this all of the time."

I quit. It saved my life, my marriage, my relationship with my children. Once I finally understood what I was doing I was happy to give and be in thAT SPOT.
I did it over and over as a Sapper Leader Airborne NCO Engineer.
New Company Commanders and 1Sgts they come in and have to assess, make changes, message the thinking in the unit.

They never do this too long. It is a transition.
I think you can complain and get a discharge. In the end if you can't do this, As a 82nd AVN, 20th Eng, 37th NCO, Sapper leader... I have to say this is not the life for you.

I thought like that before and I learned and got over it. Find a NCO to help you do good, good and great things or get out as fast as you can.
If you cant work 18-24 36, 42 hours at a time you cant ever be a engineer.
Just smoke some pot and get out on a general discharge. If you are too afraid to ask fo help you can do that.
The Army, we have too much training (work, our work is to train). We can't babysit and hand hold millennials. I understand. You are medical.
again 13.5 years CAB 82ND ABN. I would work that long and have my finger on the trigger for a hellfire. I never killed anyone that whas not shooting.
Grow stronger SPC, like I did, or get out and find a new vocation as a EMT.
I am not better than you. I am just different. I am offering you advice to move on. Help your unit, and your family as well as you.
After I worked 42 hours straight and fell asleep doing my job I really am not sure this is the job for you.

Response by SGT(P) Jody Hall made Mar 17 at 2023 8:09 PM

SGT(P) Jody Hall — Fri, 17 Mar 2023 20:09:37 -0400

The only reason I joined the Army is because I wanted to live the life of the M.A.S.H. People.Possibly fly a helicopter ( mostly)
It was better on TV.
I never quit ever. I just kept struggling through it year after year, war after war.
My mom was a nurse and a tree hugger hippie, she believed in saving lives. I became a Sapper leader, Ranger, Aviator, Combat life save, and in the end I was tossed out of the army sadly, I think I could have kept it up and kept on, no SGT(P) you can't even wear a helmet anymore, you are too broken. If you fight anymore, "Anything will kill you." It is time for you to realize you did enough and go home..."
Fracking hate that poop. I could have done a bit more.
When I hear about people complaining about being in, when I know if I was still I was I might bea able to do them more than them....
Let them go, bring me back. Let me do what I know how to do. I never needed a helmet on AD once, why should it make a difference my neck does not want one now. I can stop jumping from Aircraft. Thats fair.

https://youtu.be/FgcGOWaTPdU?t=9

M*A*S*H* - movie theme song - opening

M*A*S*H* movie theme. NOT the TV theme. buy the movie, buy the DVDs.Check this one out too, from the movie https://youtu.be/ec2-DNriE8I

Response by Sgt Michael Betts made Mar 18 at 2023 3:09 AM

Sgt Michael Betts — Sat, 18 Mar 2023 03:09:08 -0400

If you're looking for sympathy, it's in the dictionary somewhere in between the entries for "shit" and "syphilis". Just hope for the remainder of your time in service that you don't have to do a hell of a lot of things more strenuous than PT on even less than 4-5 hours of sleep. Suck it up, buttercup.

Response by Sgt Robert Lombard made Mar 18 at 2023 2:26 PM

Sgt Robert Lombard — Sat, 18 Mar 2023 14:26:52 -0400

Go to PT. Don't gripe about it, work at it.. The Service isn't a job, 9-5 or otherwise. It's your life while you're in. Oh yeah, and once you get the movements down, you can rest your mind while you tune your body. Better than sex. Well, maybe that's exaggerating a little.

Response by PFC John Jerry made Mar 18 at 2023 4:11 PM

PFC John Jerry — Sat, 18 Mar 2023 16:11:04 -0400

Suck it up and drive on!!! If you were in a combat situation you'd be lucky to get 3 hrs nap. Change your priorities. Army nowadays has gotten soft. Just my opinion. And, everyone know's opinions are like A-holes everyone has one.

Response by SGT James Layne made Mar 18 at 2023 4:15 PM

SGT James Layne — Sat, 18 Mar 2023 16:15:24 -0400

Go ti PT and get it over with. All of them higher ups have been in your spot. EMBRACE THE SUCK.

Response by SPC George Edwards made Mar 18 at 2023 9:57 PM

SPC George Edwards — Sat, 18 Mar 2023 21:57:14 -0400

You resolve it by going to PT. And standing formation is also your responsibility. In my day (early 60s), you would have been given an automatic article 15 for missing either of those.

Response by SPC George Edwards made Mar 18 at 2023 10:00 PM

SPC George Edwards — Sat, 18 Mar 2023 22:00:01 -0400

You resolve the issue by following orders. You are not elite and have no special talents that exempt you from PT or standing formation. In my day (early to mid 60's), you'd probably have gotten an article 15 for disobeying orders.

Response by SP5 Wick Humble made Mar 19 at 2023 12:37 PM

SP5 Wick Humble — Sun, 19 Mar 2023 12:37:09 -0400

I always loved it when RA personnel got into 'who's the toughest' wrangles. Of course, as a draftee...

Response by SFC Jerald Bottcher made Mar 19 at 2023 3:16 PM

SFC Jerald Bottcher — Sun, 19 Mar 2023 15:16:03 -0400

I would get your shift leadership to approach the 1SG / Commander to see if it is possible to perform PT before your shift or after your shift. When i was an MP we had the same type of situation. Our PT was scheduled for 1.5 hours before shift. (when working swing or mid shift) 1 hour after shift if working days. However you have to "sell this to your command" and once you sell this to your command you have to follow through and do the PT as scheduled. (They can have the staff duty officer check on you guys to verify that you are indeed doing PT)
However what probably happened is folks were trying to get over and got caught. Have you ever heard the phrase "Embrace the suck"? Sometimes you just have to suck it up until you get the new command climate to trust you

Response by CAPT Edward Schmitt made Mar 19 at 2023 6:21 PM

CAPT Edward Schmitt — Sun, 19 Mar 2023 18:21:12 -0400

You fulfill the requirements not your druthers. Time management; do you think in combat the enemy will say “Oh you were out all night; we will attack later?” Grow up and do what needs doing.

Response by Cpl Sean Farquharson made Mar 20 at 2023 2:01 PM

Cpl Sean Farquharson — Mon, 20 Mar 2023 14:01:56 -0400

I'm just going to say that in my experience, First Sergeants who are either new to a unit, or newly promoted love to wave their metaphorical nethers around to show dominance. Its garbage, its often short lived, but its what I personally saw. Crusty sergeants can dislike, its what I personally saw. I will also point out that in a "peacetime military", PT is one one of those places where toxic leaders can still exercise control.

I notice you're not saying a lot about what you're doing in those five and a half hours post duty. That's your business. If you're goofing off, then I have little sympathy. that said, try to get around the situation. maybe nap, or handle online tasks till you need to go to PT. then shower and rack out till you have to get up and do errands or get ready for the next day. if getting to sleep is a problem, maybe looking at a pharmacy for herbal remedies such as melatonin or chamomile after talking with a doctor might not be a bad idea- last I checked, chamomile tea and melatonin are not counted as narcotics. white noise generators or ASMR vids might also be a remedy as well. try to solve the problem before you complain, or take this up the chain of command- it shows you took time and made an effort to solve the problem.

Response by LCpl Steve Smith made Mar 20 at 2023 7:07 PM

LCpl Steve Smith — Mon, 20 Mar 2023 19:07:22 -0400

Fallow your chain of command and plead your case to your Sgt, SSgt, then 1StSgt. if that doesn't work and you still feel you shouldn't have to show up do to your work schedule see your company Xo. Still You may or may not be excused do to the fact you still have plenty of down time after PT to rest before your work shift. Remember you are in the military not a civilian so you may just have to suck it up and deal with it. But anything's worth a try. Good Luck.

Well shit Rally Point this post is 4yrs old why is it just showing up on my feed? lol

Response by PO2 James Brewster made Mar 21 at 2023 1:33 AM

PO2 James Brewster — Tue, 21 Mar 2023 01:33:31 -0400

You ARE whining and it's very unbecoming of a military person. Don't ever try to become an aircrewman, you WON'T last a week in training. What has happened to the US military???

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2023 9:09 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Mar 2023 09:09:33 -0400

Bottom Line Up Front: the commander CAN have you do PT as described so your goal is to convince the commander that he is assuming unnecessary risk.

The army produced a Field Manual in October of 2020 which covered sleep issues and the degredation of mission readiness. FM 7-22 covers how, although Soldiers can perform on less than 7-8 hours of sleep per night and can supplement their performance with caffeine, this is a temporary fix. Soldiers need 7-8 hours per night and sleeping during daylight hours is less restful. The only thing that can truly replace lost sleep is sleep. If I were you, I would first seek to address this with the 1SG as it seems he is the driving force. In your Army career, always approach with a solution in mind to the problem. His issue is lack of visibility/attendance on PT. If I were in your shoes, I might build a PT schedule, plan PT to occur prior to shift to maximize sleep time and mirror everyone else's PT before work schedule, and then offer to be personally responsible for the program. This demonstartes leadership, proposes a solution, and meets the intent of doing PT every day with visibility. If the 1SG is unwilling to hear your proposal, there is always the commander's open door policy. Present this regulation and your plan and see if you can affect change. Moving forward in your career, approach every problem with this mentality:
-Is it legal?
-Is it efficient?
And then do the research for regulations and present a solution. If all you do is identify the problem, you are just complaining. Best of luck to you.

And for all the salty vets out there who are going to quote the "you only need 4 hours"....we dont need to be hard for the sake of being hard. Operate with purpose. What purpose does forcing one shift to get less sleep serve? As a flight medic, would you want me dealing with your loved one on only 3 hours of sleep or would you want the best possible medical care available? Operate in the best interest of your Soldier within the confines of the mission and you will achieve FAR superior results.

Response by SSG Douglas Shaffer made Mar 21 at 2023 7:57 PM

SSG Douglas Shaffer — Tue, 21 Mar 2023 19:57:58 -0400

I'm late to the party here but let me get this straight your shift is from 1600-0000 And you're whining about PT at 0530. You can always go right back to bed afterwards. I remember getting back to the unit just in time to do PT either drunk or hungover. And by the way the army only need to give you 4 hours of sleep and not all at once. stop whining and do your PT.

Response by SGT Joshua Bloom made Mar 22 at 2023 1:13 AM

SGT Joshua Bloom — Wed, 22 Mar 2023 01:13:33 -0400

I'm gonna keep it

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2023 11:33 AM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Mar 2023 11:33:31 -0400

There is a certain part of me that says that this is doable as I have been in situations like this before. This situation is sustainable for a short duration of time (6months or less) without resulting in burnout. The other side of the coin is that the 1600 showtime should be adjusted to match the work schedule of those that work the earlier shift. e.g.: 0530 PT and 0730 work shift start should also reflect with 1400 PT and 1600 work start. I would suggest a conversation with a proposed solution with your leadership.

For all those expressing to Suck It Up,… leadership is a two way street,… dictatorship is never a good style

Response by SGT Aaron Murphy made Mar 22 at 2023 12:53 PM

SGT Aaron Murphy — Wed, 22 Mar 2023 12:53:23 -0400

The military must have changed quite a bit. I remember being told the Army is required to provide 1 hot meal (if possible) and 1 hour of sleep per day. Sleep was always get while you can. PT was 6 days a week at 0500.

Response by SFC Joseph Sheffield made Mar 22 at 2023 4:46 PM

SFC Joseph Sheffield — Wed, 22 Mar 2023 16:46:29 -0400

Are you an actual Soldier? You sound like you’re crying. Stop being a bitch and thank your Sergeant for letting you sleep 4-5 hours. Wait until you’re a Drill Sergeant and then cry about getting 1-2 hours of sleep before you have to give PT 3 times that day. Wow, Soldiers today.

Response by PFC Kevin Fleming made Mar 23 at 2023 6:37 PM

PFC Kevin Fleming — Thu, 23 Mar 2023 18:37:25 -0400

I also remember coming home from the club and going straight to PT with now sleep as well but most of us knew and had each others 6. We helped each other through it. Even now 14 years after the military I still serve my country in the military on the civilian side. No I don’t go out anymore but have a family to care for and at 50 we are both disabled but I still get up @ 0330 everyday and go to work on 3 - 5 hours of sleep so suck it up or change careers. Whenever you deploy you’ll probably get less sleep than that.

Response by SPC Gary Pulis made Mar 23 at 2023 7:46 PM

SPC Gary Pulis — Thu, 23 Mar 2023 19:46:48 -0400

LOL!!!! We would close the bars and show up to PT still drunk as drunk can be. We all survived you will too

Response by SPC Douglas Hearron made Mar 23 at 2023 8:53 PM

SPC Douglas Hearron — Thu, 23 Mar 2023 20:53:39 -0400

Seriously? Is there no standards in the military anymore?!? I mean the lack of discipline alone is astounding, we’re gonna be in a world of hurt when a real war starts.

Response by SFC Michael Barnett made Mar 23 at 2023 8:55 PM

SFC Michael Barnett — Thu, 23 Mar 2023 20:55:35 -0400

You solve the problem by getting your ass to formation. Period.

Response by SGT C Reed made Mar 25 at 2023 1:34 AM

SGT C Reed — Sat, 25 Mar 2023 01:34:53 -0400

How about speaking with the 1SG or CMDR about a separate PT session for your section's shift workers? Offer, as a show of initiative, to be the one to establish a schedule and training plan. Depending on resources, you might have a gym open 24/hrs or a PT field all to yourself at 1am, or you can hold PT an hour or two before shift. Offer to coordinate leadership roles for each session for at least a month to test out the new schedule. Take and report attendance. Volunteer to be one of the PT leaders. Invite the 1SG and CDR to attend a few of your sessions. This is how we often handled PT with weird shifts. I had one shift where we had only 4 people - my entire squad - doing PT every day at 7am after mid-shift. We always got a good workout and the command could always find us because they knew where we were scheduled each day (gym, basketball court, field, whatever).

Response by SPC Mark Maestas made Mar 25 at 2023 11:23 AM

SPC Mark Maestas — Sat, 25 Mar 2023 11:23:07 -0400

This is the reason the army is getting soft, poor baby.

Response by MAJ Hugh Blanchard made Mar 25 at 2023 4:35 PM

MAJ Hugh Blanchard — Sat, 25 Mar 2023 16:35:54 -0400

My response is to propose that your group attend the 1600 formation, shower and then go to work. Most afternoon or midwatch shifts don't start until 1700 or 1800 hours anyway.

Response by LTC David Howard made Mar 26 at 2023 4:43 PM

LTC David Howard — Sun, 26 Mar 2023 16:43:34 -0400

You "solve this problem" by going to PT and performing as required. If you are tired, you suck it up. In my day, your type comment would label you a "candy ass" and you would have to work your tail off to regain any respect from other soldiers.

Response by MGySgt Rick Tyrrell made Mar 29 at 2023 8:28 PM

MGySgt Rick Tyrrell — Wed, 29 Mar 2023 20:28:10 -0400

Go PT and quit crying. This why we have problems in the military now because you can reach out on social media to complain.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2023 12:19 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Apr 2023 12:19:46 -0400

I don't know if this is still the case, but at one time leaders were required to allow a minimum of four hours of sleep for their soldiers. Some held it to just that amount in some instances. I've been told that studies show that soldiers perform better with a decent amount of sleep (8 hours) but some old-school leaders still like to keep things miserable. My suggestion would be to propose through your chain of command a mid-day PT time or if the 1SG says no then wake up, go to PT then go back to sleep. It sucks, but you did volunteer to join the army. I can assure you that if you go downrange your sleep schedule will be even more F'ed up than it is now.

Response by CPO Mark Westfall made Apr 19 at 2023 10:49 AM

CPO Mark Westfall — Wed, 19 Apr 2023 10:49:08 -0400

Uh, you could go to bed earlier.

Response by AB Blake Bowers made Apr 20 at 2023 8:00 AM

AB Blake Bowers — Thu, 20 Apr 2023 08:00:36 -0400

You failed. You do sound like you are whining

Response by AB Blake Bowers made Apr 20 at 2023 8:07 AM

AB Blake Bowers — Thu, 20 Apr 2023 08:07:05 -0400

Sounds like my days working as a paramedic in New York Tennessee and Texas. Long hours sometimes no sleep 24/48 schedule we made it work. I'm not saying that the rules on PT are right, but they're not illegal and it won't kill you

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2023 10:55 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 22 Apr 2023 22:55:42 -0400

Sounds like someone is suffering from tiny hear syndrome it's called man up drink an energy drink and power through once pt is over go about what you normally do because if you think 4 hours ain't enough try being a god damn cook quit bitching if it's that big of a problem you should not be in the army.

Response by 1SG Rick Seekman made Apr 23 at 2023 7:24 AM

1SG Rick Seekman — Sun, 23 Apr 2023 07:24:35 -0400

the todays woke military..
glad that I'm retired...

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2023 11:36 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Apr 2023 11:36:05 -0400

You go to PT and do as ordered. Thats how you solve your problem.

Response by LTC Ron Stephens made Apr 23 at 2023 2:40 PM

LTC Ron Stephens — Sun, 23 Apr 2023 14:40:06 -0400

God help you if you EVER experience a war deployment. Your grade and MOS won't mean jack when you are turning back an attempt to kill you and you haven't gotten a wink of sleep in 2 or more days. Buckle up buttercup.

Response by Chris Agnew made Apr 23 at 2023 5:06 PM

Chris Agnew — Sun, 23 Apr 2023 17:06:09 -0400

The best way to solve this is by staying motivated, stay hydrated and eat healthy. Don't forget to sound off. Five hours sleep is enough to do some PT.
If this doesn't work, file a hurt feelings report under the weak mind category.

Response by LtCol Andrew Horne made Apr 23 at 2023 7:57 PM

LtCol Andrew Horne — Sun, 23 Apr 2023 19:57:21 -0400

Every deployed person has been required to perform with less sleep than that. Suck it up.

Response by Sgt Phillip Walden made Apr 24 at 2023 4:58 AM

Sgt Phillip Walden — Mon, 24 Apr 2023 04:58:44 -0400

You alleviate this by sucking it up and going to do PT. If you don’t work until 1600, go home, take a nap, go
PT and then go back to sleep after PT. It’s your job to be physically fit and a leader.

Response by SSG Raul Alaniz made Apr 24 at 2023 10:28 AM

SSG Raul Alaniz — Mon, 24 Apr 2023 10:28:50 -0400

Go to P.T. There, problem solved.

Response by SCPO Ken Badoian made Apr 24 at 2023 11:14 AM

SCPO Ken Badoian — Mon, 24 Apr 2023 11:14:11 -0400

Ask what time is best and show up and suck it up. Stop being a barracks room lawyer. When you are getting shot at and w/o much or little sleep then you can complain. Ask a question and you'll get a straight answer.

Response by SSgt Dennis Kindrick made Apr 24 at 2023 11:33 AM

SSgt Dennis Kindrick — Mon, 24 Apr 2023 11:33:10 -0400

Your problem isn't getting sleep,it's time management. We had formation at 0530- 1800 . You didn't miss formation. You had the other 11 1/2 hrs to do what you wanted. There was a 00:00 to 05:00 curfew on the village. Thier have been millions of use that have gotten through our time. With out a single writeup. You can do this, there will be time where you wont get good sleep for days . Enjoy it when you can.

Response by PFC Chiara Love made Apr 24 at 2023 2:13 PM

PFC Chiara Love — Mon, 24 Apr 2023 14:13:01 -0400

Suck it up and drive on! Once you get out of the military you can sleep how long you want but that want happen because you will be use to not having any sleep at all. Train your body to understand that when it is time to rest, rest and when it's time to work, work. These are sacrifices we make when we serve our country. PT is a part of that sacrifice it helps us to build ourselves up to gain that extra push we need when things get tough. So, teach yourself how to fully function on two hours. Yes,the human body needs sleep but a 30 min nap is better than no sleep at all.

Response by Sgt Joy Cameron made Apr 24 at 2023 3:38 PM

Sgt Joy Cameron — Mon, 24 Apr 2023 15:38:20 -0400

Do you have a family? That would hamper time getting a nap during the day.

Response by CPL Larry Frias Jr made Apr 25 at 2023 4:40 PM

CPL Larry Frias Jr — Tue, 25 Apr 2023 16:40:05 -0400

I suggest you shoulder a weapon ….and be careful don’t hurt yourself and as soon as possible get a civilian job so you can get ur beauty sleep ….

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2023 8:33 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Apr 2023 20:33:21 -0400

Only 5 & 1/2 hours off duty before needing to report again is pretty rough. I’d suggest engaging with your section chief to come up with alternative plans that can be presented to your Commander/1SG that will accommodate you/your section as well as complete the mission.

Until your chain of command changes guidance by either being convinced or otherwise I’d suggest being at that formation even if it sucks. You’ll likely only get counseling statements & or UCMJ thrown at you for missing formation.

Response by Cpl Mark Amburgey made Apr 25 at 2023 8:39 PM

Cpl Mark Amburgey — Tue, 25 Apr 2023 20:39:54 -0400

it sounds like you should not have joined the military and that your command is a mess for not making everyone pt already ..

Response by Cpl Steven Horsley made Apr 26 at 2023 7:18 AM

Cpl Steven Horsley — Wed, 26 Apr 2023 07:18:44 -0400

You go to PT. You're in the military. Sorry you joined the army but this is what it is. Others have it worse than you. Sorry to say but you're just complaining and we all do it.

Response by Lt Col Rich Jones made Apr 26 at 2023 6:46 PM

Lt Col Rich Jones — Wed, 26 Apr 2023 18:46:00 -0400

Poor baby! Glad I'm not deploying with you. Dies your

Response by 1SG Gerald Zachary made Apr 27 at 2023 11:51 AM

1SG Gerald Zachary — Thu, 27 Apr 2023 11:51:04 -0400

You're not in Kansas anymore, it is a democracy. Three years of doing what you are Ordered.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2023 6:29 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 27 Apr 2023 18:29:42 -0400

I’m not sure if I’m getting the whole picture on this, but from what I read was you’re schedule for work from 1600 to 0000?? There’s 24hrs in the day so you literally have 16hrs left!! You subtract another 1.5 hrs for PT, darn you will still have more than enough personal time left (lucky you). I’m not trying to be old school or anything but seems to me tho that you not managing your time properly

Response by MAJ Joseph James made Apr 27 at 2023 7:07 PM

MAJ Joseph James — Thu, 27 Apr 2023 19:07:33 -0400

You feel stuck? You volunteered. Your oath says you follow the orders given to you. It's unfortunate that your scheduling hours are not convenient, but you are in the Army, your not on the block. You also list your rank as SPC(P) soon you will be a NCO. Lead by example. I remember sitting in my aircraft for 8-10 hours to log 1 hour, waiting. Then going to my commanders formation, then platoon formation and meeting with my platoon sergeant one on one preparing for the next day, getting a few hours sleep and doing it again in 110+ heat of Ft. Hood. I'm not complaining, I did my duty.

Response by SSG Deron Santiny made Apr 28 at 2023 12:03 AM

SSG Deron Santiny — Fri, 28 Apr 2023 00:03:49 -0400

Sounds like you need to suck it up and drive on just like everyone else has in the past. I can remember being forced to go out on missions with little to no sleep yet, the enemy didn't care nor did they feel sorry for us. Everyone has a job, the 1SG and Commanders job is to have a company that is ready to fight and if you don't fit the bill, their careers suffer. I don't remember it being an option to do PT in the morning or afternoon, the afternoon was always reserved for the ones who couldn't pass their required PT test. Bottom line is, suck it up because while you are crying about having to go to PT with little to no sleep, your enemy is preparing to exploit your weakness. I don't drink alcohol but I know a lot of Infantryman that would stay out drinking all night and come in in time to change into PT's and take the test and max it with no problem, guess it was just a different breed of soldier back in the day (prior to the softer gentler Army of today).

Response by SFC Kurt Brunken made Apr 28 at 2023 12:14 PM

SFC Kurt Brunken — Fri, 28 Apr 2023 12:14:51 -0400

How is this as you put it 'isnt right?' Did you think when you volunteered for the Army that it was a 9-5 job? Suck it up, do your job, then over time maybe something will change.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2023 12:39 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 29 Apr 2023 12:39:47 -0400

Enemies don’t care if you’ve slept… military is getting to soft…

Response by PO1 Terry Scott made Apr 30 at 2023 9:23 PM

PO1 Terry Scott — Sun, 30 Apr 2023 21:23:04 -0400

Looks like you need to make some rank and maybe get your section to shift hours. How can you be the only one with this issue? After PT take a shower and a nap, as a junior enlistee what else have you to do but make sure your uniform is presentable? Yes it sucks. You need to suck it up until you suck lemonade. As a junior enlisted Navy corpsman near the end of Nam we had Port and Starboard Duty. 12 hour shift, 12 hour on call and it was a fluke if you didn't work those 12 hours, then your 12 hour shift and finally 12 hours off to sleep, poop, do laundry and get the next 3 or 4 uniforms ready. We wore working whites and it was expected for you to be shaved and in a neat uniform no matter who barfed or bleed on you. Two of us took care of 64 full care, like in traction, patients and had to time strip our IV bottles because there were no pumps. You could set your watch by my IVs. It got done and we were proud of it.

Response by Douglas Rice made Apr 30 at 2023 9:32 PM

Douglas Rice — Sun, 30 Apr 2023 21:32:49 -0400

I got tired of being screw over. I became violent. Don't do this!! Chain of command.

Response by CPT Dennis Stevenson made May 1 at 2023 10:03 AM

CPT Dennis Stevenson — Mon, 01 May 2023 10:03:41 -0400

I spent several nights in Viet Nam with no sleep. You can surely do PT after 4-5 hours sleep.

Response by SSG James Stodola made May 3 at 2023 12:39 PM

SSG James Stodola — Wed, 03 May 2023 12:39:56 -0400

Option #1. Go to PT formation, do what you are asked / told, You are in the military, remember, and suck it up. Option #2. Get out, go back to being a civilian where people will listen to your whining and actually care. Option #3. There isn't one, pick 1 or 2.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2023 5:52 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 22 May 2023 05:52:24 -0400

You do as ordered and don't complain. It does get better. Also, no bars or drinking. Sleep instead of watching TV. War doesn't stop because you haven't gotten your 4-5 hr. beauty rest.

Response by A1C Stanley White made May 23 at 2023 4:22 AM

A1C Stanley White — Tue, 23 May 2023 04:22:38 -0400

I can't remember getting 8 hours of sleep since my first base at Nellis 40 yrs ago.

Response by CSM Edward Litherland made May 24 at 2023 5:56 PM

CSM Edward Litherland — Wed, 24 May 2023 17:56:39 -0400

Is there an NCO in the same situation?
Here is a solution.
1. Talk with the NCO
2. Approach the 1SG with this solution
3. The NCO will take charge running a later PT and give the 1SG a daily SITREP, accounting of who is in the secondary PT formation.
1SG can be a hardass, but respect his/her decision but explain as a medical person the importance of being alert to take care of patients in your care.
Be diplomatic and say it's not that you don't want to do PT and want comply, but your duty position hours does cause a hardship to those patients needing care.

Remember, include that NCO is this conversation.

CSM Edward Litherland (USA RET)

If that fails, then suck it do the PT

Response by SFC Philip Ogden made May 30 at 2023 7:43 PM

SFC Philip Ogden — Tue, 30 May 2023 19:43:47 -0400

Even a medical profile won't get you out of PT. I still had to show upto formation. The stand there till calisthenics finished and while the ran I had to walk around the track. If your in the military you have to follow the rules no exceptions.

Response by SFC Joe Vega made Jun 7 at 2023 2:55 PM

SFC Joe Vega — Wed, 07 Jun 2023 14:55:38 -0400

Don’t be a puss!! Just do it!!!

Response by TSgt Timothy Collins made Jun 8 at 2023 12:41 PM

TSgt Timothy Collins — Thu, 08 Jun 2023 12:41:12 -0400

You are in the military, yes? ruck up sunshine, 4-5 hours of sleep is a luxury. Have you ever been deployed to an active combat zone? if not, that explains a lot. If so then you must know that you run on adrenaline, caffeine, Rip Its, and anger. Once you get used to getting 4-5 hours and not 8 hours of beauty sleep you can function just fine and the PT will increase your ability to function under stress. if you can't hack ir, then don't reenlist.

Response by SSG Andrew Pybus made Jun 9 at 2023 7:14 PM

SSG Andrew Pybus — Fri, 09 Jun 2023 19:14:44 -0400

Hopefully you grew up and realized 4-5 hours of sleep is a GOOD night. Why did you join the Army?

Response by CPO Bryan B. made Jun 10 at 2023 12:43 PM

CPO Bryan B. — Sat, 10 Jun 2023 12:43:54 -0400

You and your ilk are the reason we will lose the (soon to be here) next World War. Just get out, get a six pack of Bud Light and get a job at Target. We are so screwed.

Response by MGySgt Richard Adame made Jun 11 at 2023 7:44 AM

MGySgt Richard Adame — Sun, 11 Jun 2023 07:44:52 -0400

First of all, I would like to apologize to the men and women of the Armed Forces that work everyday with similar schedules that don’t complain and do their duty unencumbered by such a ridiculous question. We are the men and women who train to protect this great nation. We live and train with pride and dignity on very little. We walk taller because we know our purpose and we know that no matter what is demanded of us, we will never let our people or this nation down due to our inabilities to adapt and overcome. I am 68 years old retired Master Gunnery Sargent. When I retired they said goodbye to an old dinosaur. An old dinosaur that remembers those who came before me and an old WWII poem that says:
“Take up our quarrel with the foe. To you from failing hands we throw
The torch.
Be yours to bear it high!
But if ye break faith with us who die, we shall not sleep tho poppies blow
In Flanders Field.”
Men and women have fought and died for all of you. If you signed up for service of this great country, hold that torch high so the fallen can see it shining from their their place of rest. We have the best here and every enemy wants what we have and will do their best to take it from us, then turn around and punished us for being Americans. Train for the worst so it doesn’t come to that.

Response by SGT David Bower made Jun 11 at 2023 10:13 AM

SGT David Bower — Sun, 11 Jun 2023 10:13:16 -0400

Seriously? And I quote “ ..don’t want to sound like I’m whining but…….”
You’re whining!
It’s the US Military! Do what your told
Maybe you should’ve joined the peace corp. You should be embarrassed for publicly posting this and should rescind the post and carry on. You’ll be all right.

Response by Capt Ken Davis made Jun 11 at 2023 12:14 PM

Capt Ken Davis — Sun, 11 Jun 2023 12:14:46 -0400

So, what do you do from the time you get off PT and when your shift starts? Seems like you have plenty of time to sleep.

Response by SSgt David Perry made Jun 11 at 2023 12:23 PM

SSgt David Perry — Sun, 11 Jun 2023 12:23:49 -0400

Is that really a question? Has the military changed so much over the past 40 years that a junior enlisted would even think this is a problem. You are a fighting force that should be physically fit. 4 to 5 hours of is equal or less time then I got in the Grunts or in Iraq. Stop your whining and suck it up.
Former Ssgt. USMC.

Response by Cpl Dennis F. made Jun 11 at 2023 4:30 PM

Cpl Dennis F. — Sun, 11 Jun 2023 16:30:12 -0400

Aw...bless yer heart!
Over 13 months in RVN I got 1-2 hours a night. I slept when I could, including in the gypsy rack of a moving tank doing road sweeps.
Additional 22 years as govt employee working 10-12 hour night shifts, with 3 hours of travel time, 6 days a week. Just refuse, go to the brig, perhaps you'll get more sleep there. I have little sympathy. You didnt research and picked the wrong job.

Response by LCpl Jason Ball made Jun 12 at 2023 3:20 PM

LCpl Jason Ball — Mon, 12 Jun 2023 15:20:43 -0400

Go to PT. What makes you feel like you don't have to do what everyone else in the military has to do?

Response by MSG Jacqueline Case made Jun 12 at 2023 6:03 PM

MSG Jacqueline Case — Mon, 12 Jun 2023 18:03:58 -0400

You can do it! If your shift is 1600-0000 sleep for a few hours and go to PT, and sleep some more before your shift. You’re in the Army that’s your job. Work it out!

Response by PO2 James Brewster made Jun 13 at 2023 10:59 AM

PO2 James Brewster — Tue, 13 Jun 2023 10:59:36 -0400

You are a perfect example of why lowering recruitment standards is a bad idea. The words military service DO NOT mean that the military will service you. They mean that YOU will render service to the military and to your country. Grow up!

Response by PO1 Louis Bird made Jun 13 at 2023 5:20 PM

PO1 Louis Bird — Tue, 13 Jun 2023 17:20:39 -0400

If you didn't wanna do PT then you should not have joined, that's my opinion as a former E6, If I set it for you to be there and your not I'll give you a second chance then it's report time.
No if ands or buts your not a civilian anymore it's the military.

Response by PO3 Jim Davis made Jun 13 at 2023 8:00 PM

PO3 Jim Davis — Tue, 13 Jun 2023 20:00:05 -0400

uhhh yeah you work at the hospital? they probably have some vagisil there (for your vaginitis)!!!

Response by SSG Watis Ekthuvapranee made Jun 14 at 2023 8:39 AM

SSG Watis Ekthuvapranee — Wed, 14 Jun 2023 08:39:00 -0400

Just go to the 1600 formation and do PT until 1700, shit, shower, and shave, then be at work at 1800 to 0000; then rinse and repeat. You can do it. If not, when will you keep yourself in shape? Make a plan and propose that to 1SG 'through' your immediate supervisor.

Military problem solving: If you don't like the solution that was given, point out the problem and propose your solution. The highest mark on the collar wins the game. Then you say, "Roger, out"; and execute.

Response by PO1 Gery Bastiani made Jun 14 at 2023 11:06 AM

PO1 Gery Bastiani — Wed, 14 Jun 2023 11:06:08 -0400

Suck it up, I'm getting by with 5-6 hours of sleep and work a full time job and I'm 70yrs old. I remember times while in and worked a 24hr shift to get the job done. Good luck

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2023 1:22 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Jun 2023 13:22:44 -0400

Times in the Army have definitely changed, when I first got in "sleep readiness" wasn't a thing. Do understand though that your leadership seems to be taking care of you in a sense because they are ensuring you are physically fit. If you can't make it to evening formation because of work considerations, the only alternative would be to go to the morning formation at 0500. If you don't have work until 1600, you should be able to go back to sleep anyway, so why make an issue out of it? Just say roger and move on.

Response by SPC Tracy Charpentier made Jun 14 at 2023 1:50 PM

SPC Tracy Charpentier — Wed, 14 Jun 2023 13:50:22 -0400

OMG...grow up and do as you are told. When someone speaks to the sacrifices that military personnel face, this is one of them. As the old saying goes, train as though you're in battle, trust me when I tell you that if and when you ever get deployed and have to face the enemy, you wont be sleeping, even if you are not in a current fire fight. You WILL be deprived. You will even have to go to battle, to fight, to survive with if any, very little sleep, oh and your precious spiced mocha will be nowhere in sight either. Suck it up and drive on soldier.

Response by SGT Donald Bowers made Jun 15 at 2023 9:28 AM

SGT Donald Bowers — Thu, 15 Jun 2023 09:28:30 -0400

Face up buttercup

Response by SGT Donald Bowers made Jun 15 at 2023 9:29 AM

SGT Donald Bowers — Thu, 15 Jun 2023 09:29:09 -0400

Face up buttercup!

Response by SN Shirley Symon made Jun 15 at 2023 10:51 PM

SN Shirley Symon — Thu, 15 Jun 2023 22:51:09 -0400

With all due respect you have the same 16 hours off duty as the rest of us. As a TMSN there were more days than not that I did not work a straight 8 hr day. We loaded and unloaded torpedoes all hours of night and day and we're done when the mission was done. We still had to do PT. You are not managing your time. Very few people work 8 hrs then IMMEDIATELY go to sleep no matter their shift. It's not that you can't do it you DON'T WANT to do it. As a junior enlisted you still have to follow the orders of your superiors whether you like them or not. Requiring PT is not unlawful despite you wanting it to be.

Response by SSG Tyron Amber made Jun 16 at 2023 10:43 AM

SSG Tyron Amber — Fri, 16 Jun 2023 10:43:48 -0400

Suck it up buttercup!! Embrace the suck, it builds character. Future battle tested warrior!!!!Hoooaaaah

Response by PO3 D L made Jun 16 at 2023 12:13 PM

PO3 D L — Fri, 16 Jun 2023 12:13:54 -0400

You are whinning - GO TO PT ....

Response by SGT Nathan Michelson made Jun 17 at 2023 10:22 AM

SGT Nathan Michelson — Sat, 17 Jun 2023 10:22:22 -0400

Lost count how many times I went 50+ hours without sleep in active-duty time. A couple in my reserve time.
Invading Iraq was two and a half days of driving with no sleep, with the intention of driving for five days into Baghdad. And when we stopped, we had to set up shop, and immediately worked on vehicles for an unknown number of hours. Just part of the job.
Unless you are a pilot, you have no valid way of making your case. The Army (and I am assuming the other branches of the military) drills muscle memory into us. Operating with lack of sleep is one of the reasons.

Response by CPL Jake P made Jun 17 at 2023 2:32 PM

CPL Jake P — Sat, 17 Jun 2023 14:32:36 -0400

This is cute. Man out platoon was half drunk running 5 miles together because we were all out until 4am and at formation in PTs by 6am. Tough it out. Just show up, do PT, go back home and sleep. Geeze.

Response by SFC Edward Bell made Jun 18 at 2023 10:56 AM

SFC Edward Bell — Sun, 18 Jun 2023 10:56:34 -0400

Follow your orders, while stating your case to the chain-of-command…

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2023 12:58 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 18 Jun 2023 12:58:00 -0400

Suck it up buttercup... I've gone to PT with no sleep at all.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2023 12:58 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 18 Jun 2023 12:58:31 -0400

Suck it up buttercup... I've gone to PT with no sleep at all and survived.

Response by Rory Schultz made Jun 18 at 2023 5:38 PM

Rory Schultz — Sun, 18 Jun 2023 17:38:53 -0400

This reminds me of my cousin who told me a story of which he heard about this other man was going through the same issues with his Junior CO. This guy hated him and gave him a great deal of grief with very little sleep. He had just completed one assignment which took awhile. He had just hit the rack when he was called to do Guard Duty. My cousin said that guy did his best to stay awake...tons of coffee did very little. While standing very still up against a wall, around 3 am he fell asleep and woke up as he could feel the breath of someone very close to his face. His eyes were shut and he was about to panic and then impromptu he said, " Amen!" then opened his eyes being almost nose to nose with his perceived enemy. That Junior CO gruffed then walked away! My cousin said this guy almost dropped because of the fear his knees started to shake.

Response by CPL Tom Walker made Jun 18 at 2023 9:52 PM

CPL Tom Walker — Sun, 18 Jun 2023 21:52:52 -0400

How to solve it? Easy! Go to PT as instructed. See how easy that was?

Response by LtCol Ray Collins made Jun 19 at 2023 1:30 PM

LtCol Ray Collins — Mon, 19 Jun 2023 13:30:31 -0400

What problem??

Response by LTC George Morgan made Jun 19 at 2023 2:56 PM

LTC George Morgan — Mon, 19 Jun 2023 14:56:30 -0400

Can appreciate it. Military has always had a problem matching career patterns with what a soldier should be doing and when. There is a difference between what the soldier should be doing and what he should be doing to get ready for combat. Both need to be rote when you get into combat. However that is a different stress scenario. It is a way of weeding out those you can adapt to a combat 24 hour and a 24 hour support situation. It is something which requires CO's at different levels need to stay on top of. time management is needed to the max. However administering & managing is required too. I dealt with supporting combat troops in RVN and it often took 18-23 hours of sleep a night. Keep in mind that combat is a 24 hour stress situation if you want to stay alive. Being support means the same thing, except if you want to not be combat while doing your job it may wind being over run. So you have to avoid becoming the front line and the support. Survival means a lot and takes a lot. It also means not having Officers & NCO's who keep a unit function to maintain that end.

Response by SSG Joe Lopez made Jun 20 at 2023 7:35 PM

SSG Joe Lopez — Tue, 20 Jun 2023 19:35:44 -0400

Get the hell Out!!!

Response by SN Kristi Kalis made Jun 21 at 2023 11:49 PM

SN Kristi Kalis — Wed, 21 Jun 2023 23:49:28 -0400

Having 2 times to get to PT? What a luxury! I got around 3 hours of sleep before our PT. Only one a day at 0500.
How do I bring this issue up and solve this effectively and professionally? You don't. You do not miss formation or PT unless you are either on duty or out for medical reasons. Same thing for being late for, or missing, work.
Do you know of any Army Regulations that can support anything? Failing to show up for PT is a violation of Article 86, Failure to Report.

Response by SGT Frank Hewes made Jun 24 at 2023 2:38 PM

SGT Frank Hewes — Sat, 24 Jun 2023 14:38:13 -0400

I can remember days in AIT that I had to do midnight KP and fire guard on the same night, then be in formation at 06:00 for PT. Had to take a catnap during lunch, but I made it through.

Response by SGM Leon Peck made Jun 26 at 2023 10:55 AM

SGM Leon Peck — Mon, 26 Jun 2023 10:55:27 -0400

For now, you go to PT. If you don’t, you will be guilty of failure to comply with a lawful order. And that can result in non-judicial punishment and a blot on your record. And if it continues, you will be subjecting yourself to more serious consequences. Go to your leadership at the hospital. You will fare better if the leadership addresses the concerns to your 1SG. As a junior enlisted, I hate to tell you this, but if you complain, you will just come across as “sniveling”. A person in your chain of command at the hospital will have a better chance of making your case.

Response by SGT Robert Andrews made Jun 28 at 2023 12:34 PM

SGT Robert Andrews — Wed, 28 Jun 2023 12:34:03 -0400

You are complaining about your problem. If you read the regulations. It does not say what time you have to do pt. If your 1st Sgt. Says you will be at formation after your work your night shift. Then you will be at pt formation granted that is the end of your day. If you look at the time schedule of a typical military day 0500 wake up 0530 0630 pt breakfast in a hurry with personal hygiene 0730 to 0800 morning formation then an end formation around 1700.
Now flip it to an 8 hour night shift... you get off work at midnight then get 4 to5 hours sleep go to morning formation and pt then you are on down time until your night shift...
Where's the complaint?

Response by SPC David S. made Jun 28 at 2023 3:40 PM

SPC David S. — Wed, 28 Jun 2023 15:40:15 -0400

E-4 mafia solution go to PT and "sprain your ankle" doing jump-in-jacks.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2023 11:36 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 28 Jun 2023 23:36:37 -0400

@Spc Ashley Davis ... still drawing the milk... good for you.

Response by SPC Carlton Phelps made Jun 29 at 2023 9:03 AM

SPC Carlton Phelps — Thu, 29 Jun 2023 09:03:40 -0400

I feel the point is being missed here. SPC Davis has a high-demand job that isn't in a war zone. I believe she would step up her workload and go a lot longer without sleep if required.
But working every day with this schedule can wear you down. I worked for years on the 0000 to 0530 shift and that is a bear. Hard to go straight to bed without a little downtime. And why should she be expected to give up all of her time to PT and sleep?
I would take this matter up with my platoon leader first, then go higher if needed. Just be honest about how it is affecting you. If all else fails there is sick-call.

Response by Cpl George Matousek made Jul 7 at 2023 2:20 PM

Cpl George Matousek — Fri, 07 Jul 2023 14:20:55 -0400

You are in the military and must follow orders, suck it up and due as you are told. Semper Fi

Response by SSG Stephen Kimball made Jul 16 at 2023 8:04 PM

SSG Stephen Kimball — Sun, 16 Jul 2023 20:04:22 -0400

if you aren't working at PT time, get your rear out of bed. if you weren't working at midnight, would you be at the club until 2?

Response by SN Rick Mcconnell made Jul 16 at 2023 10:08 PM

SN Rick Mcconnell — Sun, 16 Jul 2023 22:08:37 -0400

This is a part of your Daily Job, this helps everyone to stay in shape. So No there is Nothing you can do, but suck it up and be there every morning for roll call, so to be Blunt but this is part of what you signed up for.

Response by SPC John Dodge made Jul 17 at 2023 12:53 AM

SPC John Dodge — Mon, 17 Jul 2023 00:53:24 -0400

Go to PT, Private.

Response by SGT John Selmon made Jul 17 at 2023 12:35 PM

SGT John Selmon — Mon, 17 Jul 2023 12:35:53 -0400

I fail to see your problem. You said that you're getting 4-5 hours of sleep, right? Well, during the invasion of Iraq, we went at least 72 hours with no sleep. You new so-called soldiers are total wimps!!!! You're a huge part of the reason I had to get out of the army. I could not stand being around soldiers who failed to perform & had no respect for senior soldiers.

Response by LCpl Earl Breon made Jul 18 at 2023 7:27 AM

LCpl Earl Breon — Tue, 18 Jul 2023 07:27:48 -0400

This just sounds like a Command that needs to be made aware the issue exists. It's easy for them to cross some wires with all the moving pieces they have. Part of the job of your NCOs is to keep their Command informed, that includes duty schedules. If you have a decent NCO they should already see the problem and be looking for a solution, but just in case they haven't the best way to approach it is with solutions in hand.

Maybe your section leader can run a PT session for y'all that would satisfy the needs of the Command?

Maybe the formation and or duty schedules could be altered to not conflict with each other?

Maybe there is another solution y'all can find. Just never bring up a problem without a couple solutions, that's just bitching. Plus, it shows you have some skills in identifying and solving problems, which are very valuable skills to showcase!

Response by SGT Kenneth Partyka made Jul 18 at 2023 4:30 PM

SGT Kenneth Partyka — Tue, 18 Jul 2023 16:30:23 -0400

You don't. You suck it up and get your ass in formation. You're a soldier, not a snowflake. If you can't handle it, find a new career

Response by SGT Tabauren Dortch made Jul 19 at 2023 5:01 PM

SGT Tabauren Dortch — Wed, 19 Jul 2023 17:01:52 -0400

I get most of the comments here. I was a part of the old army too where most of would tell you to suck it up and drive on. Coming up in ranks, I was fortunate enough to have many good leaders "raise" me. Working medevac while deployed showed me and my leaders that working overnight and trying to make it to pt would not hinder my ability to take 9=lines and ensure our pilots were safe, but would also risk the lives of those we picked up. Some people here may not realize how important your role is. What I suggest is the same thing I did. Talk to your first line supervisor and have him talk with your 1sgt and commander about your section doing pt on your own.

Response by SGT Joe Belisario made Jul 19 at 2023 6:41 PM

SGT Joe Belisario — Wed, 19 Jul 2023 18:41:08 -0400

Better Ruck up Kid

Response by SSG Ken Potts made Jul 19 at 2023 11:00 PM

SSG Ken Potts — Wed, 19 Jul 2023 23:00:06 -0400

You go to PT.

Response by LCpl Tiffinie Julien made Jul 20 at 2023 2:13 PM

LCpl Tiffinie Julien — Thu, 20 Jul 2023 14:13:40 -0400

Respectfully, there are going to be times when you won’t be able to get proper sleep and will have to keep moving. I know it’s unfair but hopefully this won’t last.

Response by SGT Robert Reid made Jul 21 at 2023 1:44 AM

SGT Robert Reid — Fri, 21 Jul 2023 01:44:55 -0400

Get your ass to PT. That’s how to deal with it. We all had to do it.

Response by PVT Darrell Ballein made Jul 21 at 2023 8:29 AM

PVT Darrell Ballein — Fri, 21 Jul 2023 08:29:44 -0400

hate to say this,but you are kind of whineing man...if you werent prepared to sacafrise your time to be trained to be the best soldier you can be,then you should change your career.you dont get breaks in combat my friend....not being rude just presenting the facts..

Response by PO2 John Schneider made Jul 21 at 2023 4:52 PM

PO2 John Schneider — Fri, 21 Jul 2023 16:52:11 -0400

Grow up and go to PT

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2023 11:52 PM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Jul 2023 23:52:27 -0400

Quit being a Mamby Pansy! Some of older GI's Remember being on Guard Duty for 3 on and 1 off. Some had to stay on for up to5 days running on Coffee and anything Caffeine just so we did our jobs and pulled our weight, This is not even the HARD thing to do. What ya gonna do when your out in a Hospital or Feild Hospital in Country and A full bird comes up or your section SGT and Hands you a weapon and a Can full of AMMO Says Your turn you got the watch till the Next soldier comes to relieve you? Your not there to make Friends, your their to TRAIN and Get ready for what's coming. Friends are just the Cake on the plate. You have to get in the Mindset that your hear to work and get it DONE!

Response by PO3 Robert Buckels made Jul 22 at 2023 5:40 PM

PO3 Robert Buckels — Sat, 22 Jul 2023 17:40:43 -0400

It does sound unreasonable, maybe talk to your leadership at the hospital. I know some commands don't like it when Platoon leadership interferes in the abilities of their personnel. The job is your first priority, not your PT schedule. It's probably not cool to expect you to return to your rack after PT. I remember when I was in the Navy we were not allowed to even sit on our racks during the day, but we did have a special section and a different muster/PT schedule for evening and overnight personnel, but those of us who pulled a mid-shift on our duty days were required to muster at 0600 hours. your only excuse for not being there was medical or on duty (0400-0800). If you are allowed to return to your rack for a couple of hours, then I would take that option and not stir the pot cause it could get worse. Good luck.

Response by SFC Bruce Smith made Jul 22 at 2023 7:01 PM

SFC Bruce Smith — Sat, 22 Jul 2023 19:01:24 -0400

I took a different approach when my guys were on odd hours and didn’t worry about everyone being at PT together. The leadership always had someone there to lead PT at different times during the day and knew which soldiers should be there. I just did an assessment of everyone’s duty hours, accepted volunteers among the leaders, then filled in the gaps with someone capable. It was an idea so flexible I personally threw in a 1430 session that became a spectacle because it was so odd. With some soldiers having to report at 0230 hours it was just one more thing we could do to maintain readiness.

Response by CPL John C. Lynch made Jul 23 at 2023 6:47 PM

CPL John C. Lynch — Sun, 23 Jul 2023 18:47:23 -0400

When did any MOS become an 8 hour only Job? Suck it up snowflake. When you complete your enlistment you can discuss the hours you want to be available with your new employer. I pity them and their HR Department though--you sound like a pampered--privileged, the world owes me everything, whiner. Yes--you sound like you're whining.

Response by TSgt Beth Peterson made Jul 24 at 2023 7:36 AM

TSgt Beth Peterson — Mon, 24 Jul 2023 07:36:30 -0400

Amazing...
You agreed to follow orders when you enlisted in the United States Army. ALL orders - not just the ones you like. Congratulations on having just an 8-hour shift! Work, sleep, go to PT as you have been ordered (!!!), then go back to sleep.

By the way... there are Army Regs supporting this requirement - under FOLLOWING ORDERS. More, too, under what happens when you, personally, decide to NOT follow orders.

Response by SP5 George Smith made Jul 29 at 2023 1:33 AM

SP5 George Smith — Sat, 29 Jul 2023 01:33:26 -0400

So, let’s think out of the box for this scenario. When should this trooper do his PT? If the command allowed it, could the SPC be allowed to do PT after getting 8 hours of sleep? It’s been awhile since I left the Army, 1976, after 8 years. Nam was over and I thought what’s an Army without a war? Is combat ready still a general goal in the services? Does every MOS get 8 hours of sleep? Does training together to create that bond of taking care of your buddy still work?…especially when the SHTF at anytime, day or night. Do people still test themselves to see what their limits are under controlled stress environments? If one’s fortitude, endurance, emotional stamina, buckled under a controlled environment is that an indicator that the real deal is a game crusher?
I have no answers or qualify as a judge to pass judgement. I only see one unit with one mission attempting to serve a multitude of personal agendas that will dilute our armed services efforts to be ready when the time comes. And that’s an observation.

Response by PV2 Glen Lewis made Jul 31 at 2023 6:53 PM

PV2 Glen Lewis — Mon, 31 Jul 2023 18:53:00 -0400

Go to PT and get more sleep in the future.

Response by CAPT Edward Schmitt made Aug 17 at 2023 8:01 PM

CAPT Edward Schmitt — Thu, 17 Aug 2023 20:01:50 -0400

I’m sorry, I consider this a stupid question. Go to PT. If war breaks out it will not be delayed to allow you to get rested.

Response by LT Bret Simon made Aug 19 at 2023 12:07 PM

LT Bret Simon — Sat, 19 Aug 2023 12:07:36 -0400

5 hours? You're lucky. Quit whining. You're in the military! If you want easy, go work at the Gap

Response by GySgt Marc Dickerson made Aug 19 at 2023 12:52 PM

GySgt Marc Dickerson — Sat, 19 Aug 2023 12:52:41 -0400

Pussy.

Response by PO3 Ted G made Aug 19 at 2023 2:38 PM

PO3 Ted G — Sat, 19 Aug 2023 14:38:54 -0400

Adulting is hard, we all figured it out, you can to. Sleep after PT.

Response by SGT Andrew Anderson made Aug 20 at 2023 2:51 PM

SGT Andrew Anderson — Sun, 20 Aug 2023 14:51:52 -0400

I don’t understand your dilemma, go to PT.

Response by SGT Bill Braniff made Aug 20 at 2023 5:30 PM

SGT Bill Braniff — Sun, 20 Aug 2023 17:30:49 -0400

The new nly way to solve this problem is to do as you are ordered. As a Junior Enlisted whatever that is, you have been granted en an order and you do it. No questions
I hate to go back to Vietnam duty, but I guess you need to know. As an Infantryman, we often did 16 and 20 hour days then started again the next day. That’s what we did. Why did you join the Army?

Response by SFC Aubrey Campbell made Aug 20 at 2023 7:22 PM

SFC Aubrey Campbell — Sun, 20 Aug 2023 19:22:44 -0400

Soldier! This is no brainer. Disobeying a lawful order is punishable under the UCMJ. Your commanders want you to be physically fit for duty and combat when required. You can’t attend the evening PT session because your shift starts at 1600 hrs. That leaves the 5:30 session for you. Others have commented about being up all night and field/combat time. Well said! Do this for us. Knock out the PT and go back to BED until time to prepare for your shift.

Response by LCDR Ed Etzkorn made Aug 20 at 2023 7:51 PM

LCDR Ed Etzkorn — Sun, 20 Aug 2023 19:51:49 -0400

Suck it up buttercup!

Response by SGT Chris Gibbs made Aug 21 at 2023 8:14 AM

SGT Chris Gibbs — Mon, 21 Aug 2023 08:14:34 -0400

Yeah the regulation is take your ass to formation !!

Response by Cpl Vic Cortes made Aug 21 at 2023 11:18 AM

Cpl Vic Cortes — Mon, 21 Aug 2023 11:18:08 -0400

You suck it up, Im a Nam Marine, many times had no sleep.

Response by SFC James Smith made Aug 21 at 2023 11:27 AM

SFC James Smith — Mon, 21 Aug 2023 11:27:09 -0400

My knee jerk response was almost "suck it up Buttercup, this is the Army". Now, after being retired and owning my own company with 65 employees who perform demanding and sometimes dangerous tasks... I think leadership has to look at what they are asking and decide if it is truly in the best interest of the Army, the soldiers, and in this case... any patients who may be treated by this individual. This isn't a war zone scenario where everyone does what ever needs to be done to accomplish the mission, safety be damned. This is a garrison scenario. If it were a short term situation... yes, grind it out and get the job done.
In this case, for these soldiers that work thru the afternoon PT so their only option is the morning PT after 5hrs of sleep after pulling a stressful 8 hr evening shift 5 or 6 days a week, some consideration and better planning should be the course for their leadership. Sleep deprivation may be expected during wartime or even training... regular day to day garrison activity tho? There is no point to it. The leaders are affecting the health of the soldier and potentially creating performance related problems and risks at the medical facility. what's the worst that can happen? Maybe giving a patient the wrong prescription, marking the wrong person's chart to remove a gall bladder or a hundred other life threatening mistakes?
This is also a recruitment and retention issue. Considering the Army's current struggles with meeting these goals, poor leadership is certainly a major reason to lose a good soldier.
Leaders need to perform risk analysis and weigh all considerations, even when simply scheduling a PT formation.

Response by SGT Michael Wells III made Aug 21 at 2023 12:31 PM

SGT Michael Wells III — Mon, 21 Aug 2023 12:31:01 -0400

Army Regulations say you need only 4 collective hours of sleep in a 24-hour day. May want to keep that in mind. I would suggest an ETS if you find that too much for you.

Let me ask a counter-question here. How many hours of sleep do you think you'll get downrange?

Response by PFC Irish Luck made Aug 22 at 2023 5:53 AM

PFC Irish Luck — Tue, 22 Aug 2023 05:53:41 -0400

Don't be week. Don't like a baby. If you can't handle that thin use a damn tampon and close that whole up. You serve our great nation do it with some damn pride with your head held up. 4-5 hours of sleep. Regs. Only require you to have 4 hours of rest a day and it does not have to be consecutive. Sounds like you have plenty of time. 1600-0000. LMFAO WEAK drunk water take a piss do your PT. 0430 PT every day all day baby. You disgrace the uniform if your going to cry over 4-5 hours of PT. Go party until about 30 minutes to formation do PT thin go to sleep.

Response by COL Brian Shea made Aug 22 at 2023 8:22 PM

COL Brian Shea — Tue, 22 Aug 2023 20:22:40 -0400

The most surprising thing about this thread is a med company actually doing PT....

Response by SPC Greg Campbell made Aug 22 at 2023 11:48 PM

SPC Greg Campbell — Tue, 22 Aug 2023 23:48:06 -0400

Jr em, between 20 to 25 and can't live on 5 hrs of sleep? Working 5 days a week with 2 days off. I remember dragging ass at gunnery on 36 hr days. Not eating because you fall asleep when you stop. Suck it up buttercup.

Response by 1LT Kurt Mccarthy made Aug 23 at 2023 1:37 PM

1LT Kurt Mccarthy — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 13:37:21 -0400

Go to sleep earlier, you're in the Army, what did you expect?

Response by PFC George Gates made Aug 24 at 2023 7:23 AM

PFC George Gates — Thu, 24 Aug 2023 07:23:20 -0400

I remember through BCT and getting four hours of sleep and told that's all they are required to give you. If your getting five enjoy the good life and suck it up soldier.

Response by SPC Michael Moore made Aug 24 at 2023 9:32 AM

SPC Michael Moore — Thu, 24 Aug 2023 09:32:44 -0400

First off Safety is the main concern here, if a soldier is only getting 4-5 hours of sleep and then being told to report to PT is not helping the soldier but hurting not only the Morale of the soldier but also hurting those that suppose to be in our care, I understand that we have to be fit but we also have to have a clear mind when dealing with other soldiers lives and well beings, with that being said I would respectfully go to my first line and ask is there anyway PT can be done on our days off, I do remember that PT was done by sections and the SEL had to send the 1SG an accountability roster. The only way I would make PT mandatory as a unit would be if we are calling well below the passing threshold.

Response by PO1 Terry Scott made Aug 24 at 2023 10:40 PM

PO1 Terry Scott — Thu, 24 Aug 2023 22:40:35 -0400

Too bad, so sad. They owe you an hour a day. No more, no less. If you are allowed time of and you waste it I hope your laundry looks presentable. They also owe you enough food to make a turd. One turd. You signed the contract. You get out of the military what you put into it. With that attitude you will get transferred in a gold plated shitcan. The next command will see you coming and it only gets worse. Appears you can’t even depend on yourself much less have others depend on you. Grow up or tell them your feet hurt and take a general and save all of us tax payers some money.

Response by PO1 Terry Scott made Aug 24 at 2023 10:51 PM

PO1 Terry Scott — Thu, 24 Aug 2023 22:51:23 -0400

Ok after reading it and remembering the bone heads I served with. Then there was the time in a Navy Hospital at the tail end of Nam we stood Port and Starboard duty. 12 on, 12 on call guaranteed to work, 12 on then 12 to poop, do laundry, say hi to the family and sleep. And do it again. If some bone head said do PT they never would have been heard from again. But I went to an Army school and the stupidity was amazing. Plan on it, it builds character. It’s called Chicken Shit. The Army is an expert at trying to make you nuts. If you think it’s not right, fair has nothing to do with it, document it. If there’s a trend bring it up POLITELY. Cover your ass and make sure your right and it’s not just a hurt butt.

Response by TSgt George Gray made Aug 25 at 2023 12:20 AM

TSgt George Gray — Fri, 25 Aug 2023 00:20:40 -0400

Think of basic, you did shit with two hours of sleep. Don't whine now

Response by TSgt George Gray made Aug 25 at 2023 12:23 AM

TSgt George Gray — Fri, 25 Aug 2023 00:23:19 -0400

When you're junior enlisted you're often stuck unless the commander intervenes when morale fails. All I can say is do it. The military isn't meant to be easy

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2023 3:50 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 25 Aug 2023 03:50:23 -0400

Why are you only getting 4-5 hours sleep?! Need to work on time management

Response by SPC Richard Cantrell made Aug 26 at 2023 12:06 PM

SPC Richard Cantrell — Sat, 26 Aug 2023 12:06:49 -0400

This whiny remf needs to buck up and do his job and his pt like everyone else. It is tiring hearing all these kids whine about not getting sleep and having to do pt or other things they don't like. They forget that after they raised there righthand and swore an oath that the government owns them 24/7 and they have to do as there told by hire ranking individuals above them even when they don't want to. If you are complaining like this dearing peace time you sure as hell won't be able to hack it in war time.

Response by CWO4 Carter Owens made Aug 26 at 2023 12:07 PM

CWO4 Carter Owens — Sat, 26 Aug 2023 12:07:11 -0400

Easy answer....... make Pay Grade

Response by CW2 Michael MacInerney made Aug 27 at 2023 11:35 AM

CW2 Michael MacInerney — Sun, 27 Aug 2023 11:35:00 -0400

“You only suffer if you believe you are suffering.” Not my quote but something I try to keep in mind in any tough situation. This is a leadership responsibility to address. Maybe two PT formations might be the answer if done correctly with the entire unit aware that all soldiers do the same PT. Are your first line leaders also complaining or are they talking about how to make the situation better for everyone? You are whining just like every soldier in history, so do not feel like you are unusual. This might be a temporary challenge and things change. Maybe this is just the temporary fix to address whatever problem the CO and Top want to resolve. Is there a deeper problem in the unit? Is physical fitness a problem? Is the leadership doing anything else to develop the cohesion of unit? In the mean time see this as an obstacle you overcome, training for all those other obstacles fortune hits you with throughout your life.

Response by SGT John Shatesky made Aug 27 at 2023 12:44 PM

SGT John Shatesky — Sun, 27 Aug 2023 12:44:06 -0400

We fix all night marches, got out 20 minutes to rest and change. Thrn onto PT area and do about 30 min of that crap, now regular duty,

Response by SFC Kevin Barlow made Aug 27 at 2023 11:55 PM

SFC Kevin Barlow — Sun, 27 Aug 2023 23:55:34 -0400

Just do that hour of physical Fitness. How about pulling 24 hr duty on a Wednesday ending Thursday and being told to do PT, or partake in Sergeants Time Training. Dayum we done got soft

Response by SSG Steven Chirco made Aug 28 at 2023 9:50 AM

SSG Steven Chirco — Mon, 28 Aug 2023 09:50:25 -0400

Suck it up buttercup. You are in the military, and that is how it works. Wait until you’re deployed and you’ve been up 24 hours straight or longer because everything has gone to hell in a hand basket. Everything you do in garrison is meant to train your mind and body for the rigors of combat. Not to mention, I’m sure I’m not the only one that can they’ve shown up to PT formation with less than an hour of sleep still drunk from the night prior and had to run a 10 miler that day. Ah the joys of infantryland.

Response by Sgt Tony Kollmorgan made Aug 31 at 2023 1:23 AM

Sgt Tony Kollmorgan — Thu, 31 Aug 2023 01:23:15 -0400

You are kidding right? Suck up and get some PT in. The "new" breed is really fragile.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2023 12:04 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Aug 2023 12:04:51 -0400

I'm old school Army. When I was a junior enlisted, then an NCO, the regulation was a minimum 4 hours of sleep every 24 hours. I don't know if that regulation is still current, but if it's still the same, all I can suggest is manage your time accordingly.

Response by CW3 Dan Mackey made Aug 31 at 2023 10:18 PM

CW3 Dan Mackey — Thu, 31 Aug 2023 22:18:45 -0400

Suck it up buttercup! PT is to keep you ready for combat situations. You can't complain about being tired if they attack.

Response by Cpl Rosemarie SantaAnna made Sep 18 at 2023 11:24 AM

Cpl Rosemarie SantaAnna — Mon, 18 Sep 2023 11:24:27 -0400

Just do it!...
One time deal for your day, sleep at your Lunch...

Response by SGT Erick Holmes made Sep 19 at 2023 7:01 PM

SGT Erick Holmes — Tue, 19 Sep 2023 19:01:33 -0400

Start with your squad leader and go from there. Let's just say your squad leader and platoon sgt don't know you haven't had sleep etc. Just a general conversation with them and I think it will go a long way. Don't be an ass to them just talked to them on whats going on. Remember when we say we are family we mean it and this is what family does you talk about things. I'm they will understand and adjust your schedule to fit the needs of the platoon and the mission.

Response by Sgt Michael Clifford made Oct 4 at 2023 8:59 AM

Sgt Michael Clifford — Wed, 04 Oct 2023 08:59:28 -0400

I suggest that you obey all lawful orders of those appointed over you. If you feel that you aren't getting enough sleep you could request to speak to your C.O. about it.

I can understand the disappointment of the 1st Sgt. when only 5 bodies turned out for PT. How the heck did that happen? Who was the former 1st Sgt that allowed that to occur? How did the C.O. not notice?

I can tell you that when I served the only watch that got any slack with regard to reville was the 2400 to 0400. They could sleep in till 0800. When I opted to attend a college course in town I was put on the !200 - 0440 watch. So I would go on duty at 1200, off duty at 1600. Time for meal and into town for class 1900 to 2130. Back to base in time to go back on watch at 2400 - 0400. Then sleep till 0800.
Don't be a wus.

Response by SPC Jared Distel made Oct 7 at 2023 12:46 AM

SPC Jared Distel — Sat, 07 Oct 2023 00:46:25 -0400

I mean this with all due respect. Bite the bullet and go to pt. At my old unit we used to run 100+ hours a week. You got sleep in where you could. I know it sucks, but I recommend you embrace the suck and try to talk to your first line about some comp time or time to reset.

Response by SPC Johnny Brown made Oct 14 at 2023 8:12 AM

SPC Johnny Brown — Sat, 14 Oct 2023 08:12:29 -0400

I was an infantryman in the 90's. During my entire enlistment 12 hours on and 12 hours off was considered an easy day. We did PT every duty day without a second thought. This was normal. My day started at 0500 with first call. Between 0500 and 0600 I was expected to get dressed for PT and clean (sweep, mop, scrub floors, etc) the common area assigned to me and my room. 0600 was first formation, but you should always be at formation 15 minutes before hand or you are late. If we were not in the field we would typically get off at 1700, but not always. It could be 1800 or 2000 or whatever depending. These were the easy days. When we were in the field which was half the time we were lucky if we had 4 hours of consistent sleep. In fact that was rare. It was far more common to get 2 hours of sleep, wake up for an hour of guard duty then get 2 more hours of sleep before continuing the mission. Time in the field was usually a minimum of 3 days and sometimes went on for up to 4 weeks. I am 49 years old and a civilian now. I still only get about 5 hours of sleep most days. I am always tired, but I suck it up and drive on like I learned in the US Army. The army is a fighting force that needs to be ready for war at all times. Could the 1st Sgt be more accommodating on the hours for soldiers that work odd hours? Perhaps, but keep in mind that the enemy (Russian soldiers, Chinese soldiers, Middle Eastern terrorists, etc) will not be. A lot of things we do in the armed forces suck. I completed a 33 mile road march in the mountains of Alaska in the winter after receiving 4 hours of sleep over the course of 3 days. That sucked, but I did it. I know it sounds like the proverbial "I walked through the snow up hill both ways to go to school," but it is a true story and many others did the same along side of me. Soldier, I know this sucks at the moment, but suck it up and drive on, and years from now you can take pride that you did things that were hard because they were hard.

Response by SSG Michael Baney made Oct 22 at 2023 2:50 PM

SSG Michael Baney — Sun, 22 Oct 2023 14:50:47 -0400

Do what you are told you lazy slug

Response by LCDR William Johnston made Oct 28 at 2023 8:22 PM

LCDR William Johnston — Sat, 28 Oct 2023 20:22:08 -0400

If there is a problem, you are it. Get off your candy-ass and go to PT. If you ever have a chance to engage with an enemy, he won't care how long you slept or how long ago it was.

Response by SSG John J Accornero made Nov 4 at 2023 3:39 PM

SSG John J Accornero — Sat, 04 Nov 2023 15:39:35 -0400

Response by LTC Jorge Cordero made Nov 5 at 2023 6:07 AM

LTC Jorge Cordero — Sun, 05 Nov 2023 06:07:40 -0500

Seriously? I see that you placed a (P) after your rank, most of the time this stands for "promotable" but from your attitude it may stand for permanent.

Response by Sgt Tom Gainer made Nov 14 at 2023 7:03 PM

Sgt Tom Gainer — Tue, 14 Nov 2023 19:03:40 -0500

My humble opinion….suck it up ! If you ever find yourself in combat it will or could be considerably worse. There were days where I went on night ambush and then humped for 4 to 5 miles or more the next day in 96 degree plus weather with almost 100 % humidity and then had a 2 hour on and 2 hour off watch that night only to hump another 4 miles the next day and beyond. Just my grunt Marine opinion.

Response by SFC James Corona made Nov 24 at 2023 9:04 PM

SFC James Corona — Fri, 24 Nov 2023 21:04:20 -0500

You can't.
Why? During combat it's about perseverance and survival, especially if War is in the horizon. There is a saying;
"it doesn't rain in the Army. It RAINS on the Army"!

Response by Cpl George Matousek made Dec 1 at 2023 5:43 PM

Cpl George Matousek — Fri, 01 Dec 2023 17:43:41 -0500

You don't, the 1st Sgt. says attend so you attend, very simple, follow orders. Semper Fi

Response by PFC Jeffrey Villarreal made Dec 18 at 2023 9:30 AM

PFC Jeffrey Villarreal — Mon, 18 Dec 2023 09:30:58 -0500

i suggest you leave the military move to ca and live with the other woke gen z cry babies
as a ex 1st 75th c co wpns plt ranger we did pt when ever we were told complaining was not a option and it keep us alive later ...lol we never got 4/5 hours of sleep anyway unless on r&r

Response by PFC Jeffrey Villarreal made Dec 18 at 2023 9:31 AM

PFC Jeffrey Villarreal — Mon, 18 Dec 2023 09:31:37 -0500

Response by CPL Brian Birchell made Dec 18 at 2023 12:42 PM

CPL Brian Birchell — Mon, 18 Dec 2023 12:42:09 -0500

4-5 hours of sleep is a fucking vacation. Suck it up and drive on POG.

Response by SPC Douglas Hearron made Dec 18 at 2023 7:14 PM

SPC Douglas Hearron — Mon, 18 Dec 2023 19:14:48 -0500

So this is a real question?!? I realize the army has gotten really soft but seriously? This is really a question? Suck it up

Response by SSG Joseph Branham made Dec 18 at 2023 11:28 PM

SSG Joseph Branham — Mon, 18 Dec 2023 23:28:35 -0500

Oh good grief! What is my Army coming too. Hell I can remember when we would come in and just have time to change and get in formation then work all day and then go at it again.
In this case, sleep during the day. Problem solved. Oh yea, man the fuck up. Get in a combat situation and see what happens. this sounds as bad as the damn stress cards.
If you did not know what was in store for you, you do now. Suck it up.
Poor baby.

Response by SFC Aubrey Mason made Dec 19 at 2023 11:55 AM

SFC Aubrey Mason — Tue, 19 Dec 2023 11:55:18 -0500

If I were you - I would go do what your 1SG told you to do
PT.
A failure of discipline is the major problem in today's Military and it starts with you.
OR............
You can go tell your 1SG you aren't going to do what he told you to do - and suffer the consequences of an Art15, a reduction in pay and rank....

Response by SFC Richard Baerlocher made Dec 20 at 2023 10:36 PM

SFC Richard Baerlocher — Wed, 20 Dec 2023 22:36:15 -0500

Go to your fist sergeant, and explain to him what your work hours are, and suggest that each shift do PT either before or after their shift. Apparently your first sergeant hasn't worked where the soldiers have shift responsibilities.

Response by SFC Richard Baerlocher made Dec 20 at 2023 10:37 PM

SFC Richard Baerlocher — Wed, 20 Dec 2023 22:37:16 -0500

Hanau Germany with the 3rd Armored Division Artillery, Hanau Germany.

Response by PFC George Gates made Dec 21 at 2023 7:33 AM

PFC George Gates — Thu, 21 Dec 2023 07:33:54 -0500

The only real point I can bring up is that in BCT I was told that they are only required to allow you four hours of sleep. If you get more than that it's a luxury. Also if you don't work till 1600 why can't you sleep after out?

Response by SGT Jody Beach made Dec 21 at 2023 7:43 AM

SGT Jody Beach — Thu, 21 Dec 2023 07:43:34 -0500

Get up and do it ... God what's wrong with this generation. 1SGT made it clear ,,, 0530 or 1600 .... You are a soldier 24 & 7. It was a lawful order from your chain of command that is in no way harsh. And yes us older Army folk did club until the bar closed, made formation and did PT. Hell I ran with the fast group.....
I did hear the Air Force is hiring,,,,,,,,

Response by MSG Debby ODonnell made Dec 21 at 2023 8:50 AM

MSG Debby ODonnell — Thu, 21 Dec 2023 08:50:09 -0500

Amidst the chaos of war, getting enough sleep may seem like a luxury. However, it is important to remember that war does not pause or slow down based on how much rest you have had. It is why maintaining physical fitness through regular PT (physical training) is crucial for soldiers. By staying healthy and fit, soldiers are better equipped to handle the demands of combat and are more likely to come out unscathed. Ultimately, being in good shape is not just about personal well-being but also about being able to help others stay alive.

Response by LCpl April Michalik made Dec 21 at 2023 3:47 PM

LCpl April Michalik — Thu, 21 Dec 2023 15:47:57 -0500

Obey your orders

Response by Sgt Joseph Avary made Dec 21 at 2023 5:23 PM

Sgt Joseph Avary — Thu, 21 Dec 2023 17:23:57 -0500

Really? You can't be serious - You go to PT.

Response by Sgt Joseph Avary made Dec 21 at 2023 5:26 PM

Sgt Joseph Avary — Thu, 21 Dec 2023 17:26:01 -0500

Really? This is a serious question! Go to PT - simple. That is what both junior and senior enlisted do.

Response by SSG Thomas Fuller made Dec 21 at 2023 9:27 PM

SSG Thomas Fuller — Thu, 21 Dec 2023 21:27:42 -0500

You get to soldier up and go to PT with your company. Organizational PT isn’t just about doing PT, it’s about socializing with your fellow soldiers, training together, knowing everyones’ abilities, knowing you all trained together and building esprit d’corps. Later on maybe the chain of command will make a late PT time to accommodate second and third shifters. You will attend PT.

Response by SPC Matt Ovaska made Dec 22 at 2023 6:52 AM

SPC Matt Ovaska — Fri, 22 Dec 2023 06:52:22 -0500

You wouldn't last very long in combat.

Response by LCpl Sandy Moran made Dec 22 at 2023 8:48 AM

LCpl Sandy Moran — Fri, 22 Dec 2023 08:48:04 -0500

Are you kidding me.? your in the miltary, why do you think you should be allowed 8hrs. of sleep. Grow up young man. Its time. Babies need not apply. Besides it for your own readiness, if ever needed

Response by Cpl George Matousek made Dec 22 at 2023 11:23 AM

Cpl George Matousek — Fri, 22 Dec 2023 11:23:49 -0500

In Vietnam I averaged 3 hours a night. Semper Fi

Response by MCPO Richard Velte made Dec 22 at 2023 12:36 PM

MCPO Richard Velte — Fri, 22 Dec 2023 12:36:02 -0500

Most Commands I've been in (Navy), we had Command PT, Division PT, remedial PT, self PT, and PT by shift. All PT was dependent on uptempo. Medical did their own thing for most aspects (PT, Duty, leave...) If you simply have sleep issues then you need to address that with your Chain. If it's a shift issue then maybe propose shift PT where you work out after or before shift. BUT if you present your issue as you have here....I'd feel as though it would fall on deaf ears. Present a solution to your problem to the Chain, this way its not directly seen as a whine of someone looking to get out of something. PT is a mandatory part of service to maintain one's body & mind.

Response by PO1 James Lusk made Dec 22 at 2023 3:44 PM

PO1 James Lusk — Fri, 22 Dec 2023 15:44:18 -0500

I served onboard an aircraft carrier in the 1980s. The ship was commissioned in 1965. I was an electrician and worked in the engineering spaces (boiler / main engine rooms). It was a hot/tough/loud environment - especially in warm water operational areas. My underway scheduled was a 12 hour workday along with two 4 hour watch rotations on a turbine generator. Out of the bunk at 6. Muster at 7. Seven days a week for at least 45 days with a brief stop in an overseas port. Sometimes 90 days between port stops. One watch would fall during the workday. The second would either be midnight to four or four to eight in the morning. Throw in general quarters drlls and training exercises there would be little time to sleep. Engineeering drills at night in between flight ops. The machinist mates and boiler techs were on a 6 hour watch rotation. The guys on the flight deck would work very long hours during launch evolutions.

In the end, you do what you have to do and look back at it with pride for doing your job.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2023 11:39 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 23 Dec 2023 23:39:14 -0500

Ask a Drill Seegeant how they do it every day for cycles on end. We go to bed somewhere around 2230-2330 and get up at 0330 and do it all again and again! You get done with PT and you can catch naps before your 1600-0000 shift. Yeah it sucks but it won't be that way forever. Also don't forget you have a section leader you can always gather a group who feels the same as you and bring it to their attention in a non complaint associated way and say hey we'd really like to do pt at say 0930 as a section, as long as the section does pt the 1sg ahouldnt see it as an issue. People who bring a solution with their problem get better results!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 24 at 2023 7:05 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Dec 2023 19:05:41 -0500

As a 1SG myself, I understand both sides. While a junior enlisted Soldier, I to had a shift that ended at 0000. We were all required to attend unit PT each morning at 0500. While webdid not enjoy this, we were at our appointed duty assignment at the required time.

On another note, Soldiers will stay up past midnight playing online video games, downtown drinking all hours of the night and still show up for morning PT.

So get whet rest you can after your shift, attend PT then get more reat before your shift starts.

Response by LTC Michael Noyes made Dec 24 at 2023 9:20 PM

LTC Michael Noyes — Sun, 24 Dec 2023 21:20:03 -0500

It's been awhile, but unless the regulations have changed your command is only obligated to insure that you have an "opportunity" to get 4 hours sleep every 24 hours. Check it out. And by the way -- you are whining.

Response by SSG Bob Robertson made Dec 24 at 2023 9:31 PM

SSG Bob Robertson — Sun, 24 Dec 2023 21:31:41 -0500

Quit being such a sissy and suck it up. We use to stay out all night drinking and chasing women util 4:00 a.m. and then run 10 miles or more in combat boots back in the 70's. Try being a real soldier and a man instead of a whiny ass little wimp.

Response by SMSgt Billy Cesarano made Dec 25 at 2023 12:28 PM

SMSgt Billy Cesarano — Mon, 25 Dec 2023 12:28:53 -0500

Although this is an old post it appears it is still an issue. Let's educate. PT is essential to ALL MOS's for what should be obvious, standardization and maintenance of physical readiness and readiness qualification requirements of the war fighter in the profession of arms. It is one of the primary tasks emphasized in all military training starting in boot camp. This requirement is exercised typically at the start of the duty day. Scheduling falls to the leadership. Common sense should prevail. However, if the General or any of his command subordinates for that matter, decide to order an event (PT) for all to participate, it must be adhered to. Excusable absence is by medical waiver or other command directive for essential personnel during the period declared.

It appears numerous leadership elements in this soldiers unit failed to adhere to the requirement and this leads to the standard fallback of correction by involving ALL elements, (a single soldier is an element). Deterioration of military standards should never be tolerated. Nor should it be allowed to even trend negative. It is your duty to adhere to the expectations of those standards, to be ever diligent and fully prepared for full scale war at a moments notice. The enemy is always watching!

Response by SMSgt Kevin Townsend made Dec 25 at 2023 3:31 PM

SMSgt Kevin Townsend — Mon, 25 Dec 2023 15:31:10 -0500

SPC Davis, I do not come from a USA background so I cannot address the "Army" side of your situation. I was in Air Base Ground Defense, the USAF side of combat arms. I am much older than you and I come from a different generation and mindset. I offer you what I can to help you in your situation. You mention, "why this isn’t right." Right, wrong, good, or bad has nothing at all to do with your situation of duty to defend our nation. Live, die, win, lose, overcome, or be overrun are the things that should be on your mind. Your job is not a 9-5 job where coronary artery disease will probably kill you. You will face an opponent where he will kill you if he is stronger, faster, or smarter than you. I have served in civilian law enforcement and as a firefighter as well. I have seen violent death close-up and came within inches of death on several occasions. Dying "isn’t right" but it happens to us all. Your 1st Sergeant is trying to make your hard and strong so you will live, overcome, get to go home to those you love and die old. Do not assume that a red cross or being a medic will save you. There are enemies out there that have no use for the Law of Armed Conflict. (Take a look at what Hamas did to babies and civilians.) The option is leaving this world young and having your loved ones attend a funeral and get an American flag to remember you by. It all starts in the mind. I urge you to reorient your thinking. Make personal goals to run farther, run faster, lift more, work harder, and excel all those around you. Make sure you are the sixth person who shows up to PT every time. If that means partying less, so be it. Either you want to live, or you don't. Your enemy does not care about you, he only will kill you, given the chance. Do not give him that opportunity. Best wishes in your career.

Response by LTC Wayne Dandridge made Dec 25 at 2023 6:23 PM

LTC Wayne Dandridge — Mon, 25 Dec 2023 18:23:02 -0500

Ask your Squad Leader to let you speak to your platoon sergeant and ask him or her if he could get you and the other soldiers on your shift to do PT earlier in the day. You can also put in a written suggestion to your 1st Sgt or commander. It is true that soldiers must sometimes work long hours but depriving troops of enough rest for long periods especially in the USA and times of peace is unacceptable. Working smart is always superior to working long hours. Help your chain of command with good suggestions and tactful complaints is being a good soldier.

The Army is having trouble enlisting and reenlisting soldiers. If all else fails you can complain to your Battalion Sergeant Major or Chaplain and in the worse case you can make a complaint to the post IG. In the mean time, suck it up and follow orders.

Response by MAJ Albert McCaig made Dec 30 at 2023 6:40 PM

MAJ Albert McCaig — Sat, 30 Dec 2023 18:40:45 -0500

Suck it up buttercup.

Response by SFC Frederick Sharon made Jan 1 at 2024 9:36 AM

SFC Frederick Sharon — Mon, 01 Jan 2024 09:36:17 -0500

Go to sleep as early as possible, 1600, 1700, get up at 2300 ... go to town.. party... go back at 0300... take a shower... take a nap... be ready for PT. BTW drink water before town and upon returning.

Response by Sgt Peter Schlesiona made Jan 7 at 2024 6:50 PM

Sgt Peter Schlesiona — Sun, 07 Jan 2024 18:50:01 -0500

You are whining. And being a self-pitying whiner, at that. I and all my brothers did that for the better part of 13 months in Vietnam. Rare if we got 5 or more hours.
Grow up and stop looking for Mommy to take care of you.

Response by SP5 Jim Hambleton made Jan 9 at 2024 10:23 AM

SP5 Jim Hambleton — Tue, 09 Jan 2024 10:23:23 -0500

Wait'll you get deployed and have to put in a 24 hour workday.

Response by SPC Max Waller made Mar 7 at 2024 6:19 PM

SPC Max Waller — Thu, 07 Mar 2024 18:19:13 -0500

during my time as active duty, i as an 11B10 infantryman did things with only a half hour of an awful sleep on concrete - you at your age if you are under 26 years young should have enough energy and stamina to perform physical training - 3:18 pm Pacific Standard Time on Thursday, 7 March 2024 leap year

Response by SSG Tammy Joy Partridge made Mar 30 at 2024 11:47 AM

SSG Tammy Joy Partridge — Sat, 30 Mar 2024 11:47:49 -0400

From my experience this policy is at local command level. I bucked this before as well. I was told that if you work over midnight then you have do not have to report to first(PT) formation.

If I was in your situation I would request a meeting with the chain of command to see what the policy is and if you can get excused. It is effecting your abilities. Maybe it will work. Stewing about it will just stress you out. If they do not allow you to be absent then you have to adjust your resting times. I know that sucks. Other option is too move to other unit. Some units have crap leaders and you have to suffer for it unfortunately. I always got mad about BS like this but it never lasted. Soldiers, leaders complain and the chain of command will stop it eventually. I retired with a pension so they did not break me with their nonsense. I sucked it up and got to the finish line. You can too.

Response by SPC Rodger Bell made Apr 3 at 2024 5:17 PM

SPC Rodger Bell — Wed, 03 Apr 2024 17:17:37 -0400

when i joined the Military i was told that they could work us for 20hrs and give us 4hrs sleep but that was the real Army, i don't know what type of Army we have now (Clear the way!! Bridge the Gap!!)

Response by SGT Jacob Helms made Apr 3 at 2024 7:50 PM

SGT Jacob Helms — Wed, 03 Apr 2024 19:50:03 -0400

You just gotta do it.

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2024 10:29 AM

LTJG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Apr 2024 10:29:03 -0400

I was in a non-combat unit in the Marines. There was organized PT 3 times a week initially. But I was transferred to a different unit and because of the weird hours we worked, PT was "On your own."

Now that I'm on the officer side, my free time is dictated by the flight schedule.
The wing got together and saw how broke physically and mentally a lot of the pilots have been getting over the years, specifically helicopter pilots with the Helo Hunch. So the wing went and hired a civilian company that is composed of a personal trainer, a sports psychologist, and a physical therapist. Really AWESOME people. Group PT is offered twice a day 0700 or 1300 whichever is better for you on the schedule. They have their own "Flyers Only" Gym/workout space/HITT box. I've utilized them multiple times for mental stuff (Which is NOT put on your medical record), lower back issues, and getting back on a workout program that specifically addresses what I need to work on.

The gym is for Pilots AND Aircrew so there's a lot of comradery and it's a great way to actually get to know the people that you're going to be flying with in the back. Being prior enlisted I never really had an issue speaking frankly to my Marines/Sailors, but for the straight out of the academy or ROTC officers who are maybe a little more awkward in how they're supposed to interact with the enlisted, PT is a great way to build that rapport.

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2024 10:32 AM

LTJG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Apr 2024 10:32:16 -0400

1SGT is trying to solve a problem with a blanket fix. He needs to get with his small unit leaders and find something that actually works. Personal time is important. You start messing with people's personal time and the tone/readiness/quality of work is going to drop and the bottom line he was trying to pad with a little extra is going to come back to bite him in the ass.

Response by SSG Peter Kriz made Apr 6 at 2024 5:45 PM

SSG Peter Kriz — Sat, 06 Apr 2024 17:45:59 -0400

Man up

Response by SrA Chris Livingston made Apr 7 at 2024 12:34 AM

SrA Chris Livingston — Sun, 07 Apr 2024 00:34:33 -0400

I am long out but I can commiserate. Life in the 24.7 world. Nights and weekends. In the USAF we usually did not have mandatory PT. We had standards and were expected to meet them. It depends on your job. Your geography. Peace or war. Certain jobs, unless in hot combat had standards that ensured your non duty time was not interrupted. If you dealt with those things that destroy nations if mishandled or making critical human life and safety decisions you were allowed protected time off. Yes, you woul have occasional training, but still enough time before next shift. If you are responsible for caring for those not subject to the UCMJ you can't put them at risk. If you deployed into hot combat would you be doing the same job? In combat yes you might go a few days without sleep. But not day in day out for a year or two. Are you in the job of engaging and destroying or precision high level of attention decision making? When the USAF still had SAC, it was understood that care for the human was just as important as the mission.

Response by PFC Charles Chambliss made Apr 8 at 2024 1:02 PM

PFC Charles Chambliss — Mon, 08 Apr 2024 13:02:12 -0400

It is what service in the military is all about.Lives have been lost by not following the last order.No compromise can ever be accepted,ever.

Response by SSG Donald Kuhns made Apr 8 at 2024 1:50 PM

SSG Donald Kuhns — Mon, 08 Apr 2024 13:50:55 -0400

For your best answer forst go through your chain of command, if there is no satisfactory answer, then check with JAG to see if there are any current regulations regarding your directive. Second, as a retired Army veteran, son your in the Army, everything you do is to train/contain your ability to function in a combat situation, part of that is to be able to function at top physical condition even under physical and mental stressers without effecting over allmission goals. My opinion? Go to PT, challenge yourself, and realize you can do more than you think.

Response by SP5 Larry (Lawrence) Pitman made Apr 9 at 2024 4:47 PM

SP5 Larry (Lawrence) Pitman — Tue, 09 Apr 2024 16:47:13 -0400

New daily schedule: 0530 to 0630 = Pt. 0630 to 0700 = breakfast. 0730 to 1330 = sleep. 1330 to 1400 Lunch. 1400 to 0000 = work. 0000 to 0030 = dinner. 0030 to 0530 = "free time".

Response by SPC West Coleman made Apr 9 at 2024 10:44 PM

SPC West Coleman — Tue, 09 Apr 2024 22:44:08 -0400

Utilize the chain of command. There’s no way you or anyone else should have to make a daily PT formation or anything else every day at 0530 when you work a 1600-0000 shift.

Response by SMSgt John Clifford made Apr 10 at 2024 3:01 PM

SMSgt John Clifford — Wed, 10 Apr 2024 15:01:48 -0400

Suck it up, no whining, crying or bitching and go to PT.

Response by SP5 Robert Kennedy made Apr 11 at 2024 6:05 AM

SP5 Robert Kennedy — Thu, 11 Apr 2024 06:05:34 -0400

Personally, my suggestion would be to show-up with boots on. I can tell you that physical and mental discipline is necessary regardless of MOS. Years from now you will be proud of your service... and your body will likely be better for it.

Response by SGT Robert Reid made Apr 11 at 2024 3:36 PM

SGT Robert Reid — Thu, 11 Apr 2024 15:36:29 -0400

Go to PT. We’ve all been there before. PT is part of soldier/unit readiness.

Response by CPT Ted Dannemiller made Apr 11 at 2024 6:19 PM

CPT Ted Dannemiller — Thu, 11 Apr 2024 18:19:50 -0400

“ How do I solve this problem?” WHY this isn’t right….

Some peer pressure is what you need. Embrace the suck, You’ve NO EXCUSE for skipping PT; you're in the military and until the team gets its shit together, you're all going to suffer? ANd tell your PSG to do his damn job: NOT pass it off on the 1SG.