I am considering a Congressional inquiry...what advice do you have?

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Feb 2015 19:00:37 -0500

I am reaching out to the RP community about a subject that is near and dear to my heart. My daughter is being threatened with OTH discharge from the USN.
My daughter is in the USN, she is a Seabee, and got herself into a pickle.

I do not like how the command is handling the situation...(my opinion only). There are some discrepancies that I would like investigated...I do not honestly think they will affect the outcome, but there are principles I would like addressed.

If you have any experience with writing or submitting a Congressional Inquiry, I would appreciate your input. Personal experience would take more precedence over hear-say. PM me if you have something private to share, I will keep all stories confidential...you have my word.

Specific questions I have:

I have two weeks until a scheduled Summary Court-Martial....is that enough time?

Should I send letters and requests Registered mail (requiring a signature)?

Do I write my Senators and Representatives as well as the Governor of the state she entered from as well as the current politicians in the county she is serving in?

Is there any backlash she can expect from my inquiry?

Is there any backlash I can expect as I still wear the uniform?

Is it possible I make this worse by getting involved?

Is it possible an IG Complaint (or USN equivalent) is more appropriate?

Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated?

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2015 9:13 PM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Feb 2015 21:13:55 -0500

First off not knowing too much on the whole situation, but regardless yes her command should have a JAG officer that will prosecute, but they are also liable to have another one to represent her, and she can hire one on her own. If they are not doing this then they are very wrong, she should have already been in contact with a lawyer of her own to help defend her, if not then something is defiantly not right.

Response by SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S. made Feb 3 at 2015 9:51 PM

SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S. — Tue, 03 Feb 2015 21:51:15 -0500

From my limited experience, I haven't seen congressional officials do many things quickly when they're notified of a perceived problem or injustice. Remember, you're likely to only speak with their military liaison and that person will decide what happens from there. If going that route, I'd contact the congressional official in the district where I'm registered to vote or where my adult child is registered.

The IG could provide a quicker response to the issues at hand.

If she's not been in consultation with a JAG defense attorney, you or she should explore why. You may be told you have no legal right to question or that they cannot disclose information to you.

Ask your daughter if she waived her right to representation. She may have waived and not realize it. If so, she should be able to alter that and now request legal representation. She should also inform her attorney that they are able to discuss the case with you.

Could you get an appointment with JAG at your location to see what her rights are or should be?

I'm sure you've had a "come to Jesus" meeting with her where she laid all the facts (good, bad, and the ugly) out before you. Remind her again that you love her and will stand by her regardless of what happens. Based on the outcome of the "come to Jesus" meeting, that may be the best option for both of you. There are some situations where you can fight and fight and fight and achieve nothing but a really bad memory of the damages done.

Don't make any promises you can't keep ("we'll fight and win this" type of stuff) and don't let the experience taint your image of the military. I've seen it happen to seasoned NCO's when their children entered the service and something like this happen.

God bless, brother! I hope this works out for you and your daughter.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2015 12:59 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 00:59:53 -0500

A note on timeliness: the best way of approaching a Congressional Inquiry would be either in-person at the member's office, or via e-mail as a close alternate. A US Senator or Congressmember will require a signed Privacy Act release before they engage any matter on behalf of a Constituent, so you could lose valuable time if you don't include this statement (often, you will find it as a download on the member's official website).

Two weeks is really cutting close. Legislators will not send letters directly to any unit or command. All Congressional correspondence will be forwarded to the Office of the Chief Legislative Liaison, Army (for Navy, it's the Office of Legislative Affairs). The correspondence will then be disseminated via the G-1 (A-1, N-1) channels, starting at 4-star HQ level and flowing down each level of command until it reaches the Commander concerned. For someone at a Company or Battalion, it could take 2 to 3 weeks for Congressional correspondence to reach the unit concerned.

An Inspector General (IG) inquiry is more appropriate when a specific regulation or standard has been violated.

In this case, a Congressional could be helpful if it reaches the Command in time. I would recommend working through Legal Counsel to build a defense, or to demonstrate that the Servicemember can be rehabilitated. One approach would be collecting letters of support from Officers and NCOs, as well as outside entities (Teachers, Clergy, etc) who may serve as character references.

BLUF: A Congressional or IG Complaint will not accomplish much if the Command is taking action within its authority under UCMJ, Regulations, etc. The key is to influence the Command toward showing leniency to a deserving Servicemember who is willing to learn from their mistakes.

I doubt you would suffer any backlash from your Chain of Command. As a Servicemember and a Father, you have every right to be involved. I would encourage you to cross-talk with your daughter's NCOs. As far as your daughter is concerned, a Congressional or IG inquiry are protected communications, and backlash can constitute reprisal (which will end anyone's career).

An OTH is not to be taken lightly. The worst thing that you can do in this case is to do nothing at all.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2015 1:09 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 01:09:53 -0500

I feel I don't know some key items here, but to opine:
If your daughter is being tried under a Summary CM, then the issue at hand is more serious than a Captain's or Admiral's Mast. This indicates significant wrongdoing being alleged, but not a "high crime" that would warrant a General or Special CM preceding. She absolutely MUST get military counsel. The answer you write below under SFC Jerry Crouch 's response regarding what the JAG office said is a complete no go if true. She needs to go to another office and get a military lawyer that is not affiliated with that one. A military lawyer would be very keenly interested in that remark and might even be able to construct a procedural defense around that if she was not afforded an unbiased defense counsel.

I think the right answer lies in a competent defense, assuming she is not guilty... or even if she is. I would recommend that she ask for a continuance in order to buy time for preparing her defense and possibly to pursue some of the options you mention.

A Congressional would get results typically in a week or so, so you do have enough time to go there.

I would caution - commanders don't refer charges to a Summary Court Marshall in a whim. There must be something there to throw the book at your daughter. Depending on your relationship with her, you might want to have a frank talk with her about what really happened, understanding that there is a chance you get deposed or even called as a witness if the SJA figures out you know something.
We all want to protect our children. God knows I'd fight like a lion if my little girl were under the gun. She needs you. You will always be her daddy. If she "did it", you should focus on helping her learn from her mistake, and she and her JAG should concentrate on minimizing the damage. Characterization of Service as OTH is huge and has permanent consequences.
Good luck.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2015 1:37 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 01:37:19 -0500

I've dealt with about 4 Congressional and about double that many IG complaints and I've also advised some Soldier's to ask for a Congressional on their behalf. Short and to the point since you ask for our experience:

No - nothing moves fast on either one. There is a short suspense (used to be about five days, not counting mailing time) for the inquiry to be answered once it's issued, but there is a time it will sit in the Congressman's office being considered and/or getting put together for an official inquiry and then there is the time it will sit in the Congressman's office once it gets back. There is also mailing time and requests for delays/additional time to 'gather information'.

Yes/No - put in writing and keep copies. Registered isn't required - do confirm receipt if anything. A staffer will sign for it and that doesn't mean much. The letters should be coming from your daughter also - she is the one with the issue/problem.

Yes/Yes/No/Don't know - write the Senators and Representatives - that is why they call it a Congressional. Governor can't help/do anything unless she is National Guard. Foreign politicians - don't know the circumstances but can't imagine how they can help.

Doubtful - given the time frame. Not supposed to happen. If the situation is this dire, what does she have to lose?

Very Doubtful - again, don't know the circumstances. Doubt anything could blowback on you - different branch. Will be between you, the Congressman and the Navy.

Probably not - again, sounds pretty bad now if she is facing a summary court and OTH discharge.

No - The IG (equivalent) process is to advise the Commander/give the Commander.

Your daughter should be getting advice from counsel provided to her who is working for her/in her interest. Not knowing the circumstances I would advise talking with her council and get their perspective on everything if you haven't already. Starting the request for a Congressional Inquiry may be the only recourse she has. Typically, when a military member makes a complaint to their congressman, the congressman's staff will read it, determine what agency needs to respond and then forwards the complaint to the agency, in this case the Navy, attached to a letter signed by the congressman. The congressman rarely, if ever, takes sides. In other words, he or she will not become your advocate. Rather, they simply ask the agency to forward a reply to the complaint to their office. Once received, the congressman will write you a nice letter thanking you for your service and telling you that the agency response to your complaint is attached. Unless there is some political reason for the congressman to get involved, your complaint will be handled by staffers and responded to with form letters. Every time we had a Congressional, we got a photo copy of the request for assistance/complaint forwarded down through channels to the persons command or whatever level the perceived injustice occurred. We then would send a reply back addressing the issues, through the same channels. One thing a Congressional does do is brings whatever the issue is to the attention of higher commands who get to see the complaint and the response. Some commands don't want that attention or spotlight shining on them asking what the hell happened to cause a Congressional.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2015 4:09 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 04:09:44 -0500

I would really like to know what exactly she did to get court marshaled. We can give you all sorts of advice, but without knowing the true reason behind it, we could be sending you in the wrong direction. Throughout my time in service spanning 3 branches of the military, I have kicked 25 service members out out under OTH. The charges ranged from sexual assault and underage drinking to drug abuse and prostitution in a combat zone. Depending on what the charges are, you may not even have a leg to stand on. In this case, I would not give you any advice as I could not determine the nature of the offense. Each type of offense has a different way of approaching the situation. I wish you luck in your endeavor, and I understand that because she is your daughter, you will fight for her whether she is actually guilty of the offense or not. Take a moment and think to yourself (forgetting she is your daughter), If she was my Soldier and did this, what would I do to her in this situation?

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Feb 4 at 2015 9:21 AM

COL Jean (John) F. B. — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 09:21:11 -0500

First, let me say that, as a parent, I feel your pain and know that you are concerned about your daughter. We all want to do whatever we can to protect them, even after they have grown up and left home.

Having said that, I think that you should probably stay out of her situation and let her handle her own problems. She is an adult and a military member. While I am not suggesting that she may not be totally honest with you about what happened, she is telling you her side of the story. I think we have all been around long enough to realize that there are always two sides to the story and, usually, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

I think you would be much better served offering advice and support to your daughter than trying to get Congressmen and Governors all spun up. They cannot really impact the outcome (particularly in the short time period mentioned) as all they can do is display interest and obtain the facts. Does that ensure commanders will do the right thing? Maybe... but I think that most will do what they think is right regardless of who is watching or asking. It is the commander's decision on what to do concerning the UCMJ... If the commander decides to go to court-martial rather than offer an Art 15, that is his/her call and nobody can change it (not the next higher commander, IGs, Congressmen, or anybody else). To do so would be Unlawful Command Influence, which is prohibited. I have been in that situation on a couple of occasions and had the moral courage to do what I thought right, regardless of who was trying to convince me otherwise. If anything, outsiders being involved only made me dig my heels in and continue the action with more vigor.

I honestly think that your involvement will have no impact on the situation. Sure, it will cause a little inconvenience and work for the chain of command, but that is all in the course of business. Your daughter has the right to appeal if she thinks she was mistreated and I urge her to do that, if that is what she truly believes. In that way, the whole situation will be reviewed by the next higher chain of command.

My experience with Congressionals is that they simply make the complainant feel good but rarely, if ever, have an impact on the situation/issue, particularly when it comes to military justice issues.

I used to handle Congressionals in this manner. When I received one, I would call the person in who wrote the Congressman and sit down with them to prepare the response. 99% of the time, the response WE sent to the Congressman was the same response the individual had received before he/she wrote the Congressman. The only difference was that he/she got my response immediately instead of the several weeks it took to get a response (the same response) from a Congressman. People who think commanders are influenced by questions from Congressmen are simply wrong, unless they are that very small minority who really are purposely doing something wrong.

Again, I know how you feel and I feel your pain, but I honestly think you should stay out of this, except to offer your daughter parental support and guidance. Anything else you do may make you feel good, but will have no impact on the outcome.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Feb 4 at 2015 10:28 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 10:28:32 -0500

Congressional Inquiry, while I have never written one, I have responded to them on more than one occasion. Not once were they founded, not once did they change anything.
The CI will pass through channels down to the unit level where a response will be written, that response will provide details in response, justifications and policy, regulation, law that supports.

Im sure there are CI that are valid and require an action by the command other than just wasting time to respond.. IOW need changes are made. I've just not been in a unit where that was the case.

Bottom line, the same leaders that are dealing with your daughters situation are the ones that will write the response to the CI. If they think they are just in the actions, the CI will be returned with justifications and policy that support those actions.

So ask questions in the CI which specifcally address your concerns, to which you believe answers will cause change

Response by COL Vincent Stoneking made Feb 4 at 2015 11:11 AM

COL Vincent Stoneking — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 11:11:43 -0500

I posted this as a reply to a poster below, but I think it's important enough for a top-level response... I have seen the "she is entitled to military counsel" statement several times in this thread.

This is FALSE. You are not entitled to a provided military counsel in the case of a Summary Court. Rule for Courts-Martial 1301(e), Part II, Manual for Courts-Martial United States (2012). The service in question can do so as a matter of policy (I don't know the Navy stance), it can chose to do so in a specific case, or the accused can hire private counsel.

The only way to FORCE the service to provide counsel would be to refuse the Summary Court, which she has the right to do. However, it should be borne in mind that a Summary Court is much more limited in the punishments that it can impose. It's a two-edged sword.

Response by Cpl Brett Wagner made Feb 4 at 2015 11:21 AM

Cpl Brett Wagner — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 11:21:31 -0500

SSG Michael LoGuidice - Having been in the Marine Corps and the Navy I am guessing your daughter must have done something pretty serious to be getting a courts martial rather than NJP, no offense to you or your daughter sir. I think the first action for you and your daughter is to get a lawyer, a real one not a JAG. I have some experience with getting a senator involved in unfair actions but I doubt you will ever get a congressional inquiry especially in two weeks. Are you able to go to your/her congressman/senator's office in D.C. that is what is most effective.

IMHO

I have two weeks until a scheduled Summary Court-Martial....is that enough time?
Probably not unless a lawyer can delay it.

Should I send letters and requests Registered mail (requiring a signature)?
Not sure this will be any better with the time remaining.

Do I write my Senators and Representatives as well as the Governor of the state she entered from as well as the current politicians in the county she is serving in?
Senators, congressmen and the chair of the armed services committee are best bets.

Is there any backlash she can expect from my inquiry?
It's possible.

Is there any backlash I can expect as I still wear the uniform?
It's possible.

Is it possible I make this worse by getting involved?
It's possible.

Is it possible an IG Complaint (or USN equivalent) is more appropriate?
Officers are going to close rank march no matter the service or situation there are not going to be any Tom Cruise from a Few Good Men to help.

Sorry if I am a downer. Lawyer up is the best thing IMHO
Good luck my brother.

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made Feb 4 at 2015 12:44 PM

COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 12:44:12 -0500

Thoughts/Recommendations:
- COAs. There are several tools or COAs available to you/your daughter. I recommend picking the best tool or tools for the job. Possible COAs include: TDS (Trial Defense Services), direct engagement of her chain of command, indirect engagement of her chain of command, IG, and Congressional.
- Know the COAs. In order to determine the best COA, you must understand each one. For example, a congressional inquiry does not mean that your congressman will investigate the issue. A congressional inquiry means you send a note to your congressman (staffer really), the staffer sends the note and a cover letter to DoD, DoD passes it down the chain of command to your daughter's commander, your daughter's commander prepares and submits a response, the process is reserved until it gets back to you. Most congressional inquiries that I have seen, the Congressman only cares that they get a response and they pass the response on to you. Not really sure if they care what is in the response.
- To answer your specific questions in sequence:
1. Two weeks is generally not enough time.
2. Registered mail. Recommended yes.
3. Recommend your two Senators and your Rep. Governor and local politicians will not produce any more than you would get from Congress. Your call.
4. Backlash? Possible not probable but if your daughter is already facing a SCM, how much worse could it get?
5. Any backlash to you? Possible but unlikely. Doubt you chain of command will even be informed that you submitted a congression especially if you do not use your rank or unit.
6. Make things worse? Possible but unlikely. If your daughter's current chain of command is treating your daughter fairly then they should not be concerned about external eyes.
7. IG complaint? Yes more appropriate.
8. Advice. Looking at this from a commander's perspective, your daughter may not be telling you the entire story (worst case) or is merely telling you the story from her perspective (best case). You can not make an educated and informed decision unless you are aware of other points of view. Your issue is how to obtain those other points of view.

Response by SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA made Feb 4 at 2015 3:04 PM

SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 15:04:50 -0500

Time is your biggest enemy but as a fellow warrior, there is and must be a way. Who do you know that knows someone and who do they know? Start there.

Second; the detailed explanation of why the CM should not take place must be beyond reproach, most if not all Politicians will seldom speak out against a military office or in a singular situation unless a direct personal reason is present. (I.e. Governors Son gets stuck in boot camp reception station and calls on behalf of his son and all the others...this happened to me)

It may be wise to speak to her commander directly before taking it up the rope, they will most likely ask if you tried that, if you do indeed reach a Senator or Congressman. May I inquire which State?

Where a will, there is a way...

Steady on,
Steven

Response by MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2015 4:16 PM

MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 16:16:01 -0500

I can only tell you my personnel experience. I am not afraid to share that as a young SPC, I had no other choice to seek Congressional help and when I did, it worked. Long-quick story:

- 2001, assigned to Okinawa, Japan while then-wife was 8 months pregnant. She was still CONUS until the birth
- child was born with Cystic Fibrosis
- Medical faculties in Okinawa were unable to provide CF specific medical care
- I requested a compassionate reassignment to ANY post near or around appropriate medical care
- exactly six months later, HRC noted they never received the 4187/packet
- upon further inquiry, BDE (on Hawaii) noted they never received the packet
- BN stated they sent it forward
- I exhausted all my means via the chain of command channels
- immediate supervisor and his supervisor advised I submit a Congressional inquiry
- no kidding, 5 working days after I sent the email, I received a call from the Congressman’s office asking for further details and updates
- I had orders and was on a plane 5 days after that phone call

The conclusion of the Congressional inquiry discovered the packet never left the BN Commander’s office. Am I glad I went that route? Absolutely. I would do it again if I felt I had done all I can and had given the COC the opportunity to address the issue. Was there any repercussions? No. I was actually pinned SGT/E5 and given an award on the way out.

NOW – I see Congressionals from time and time and process them accordingly. I have only seen one that was out of line and ridiculous. The others, in my eyes, were legitimate concerns and inquiries.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2015 8:02 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 20:02:42 -0500

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member, you are getting plenty of advice and guidance. I'll just say I wish you well.

Response by CW2 Joseph Evans made Feb 5 at 2015 1:18 AM

CW2 Joseph Evans — Thu, 05 Feb 2015 01:18:16 -0500

IMO, your best option at this point is to seek professional legal assistance. This will force some options in discovery and determine whether the Navy has a solid enough case to take it to the next level. Involvement of a civilian representative for your daughter will also give you time to look at other options.
There is a very real consideration that your daughter is indeed guilty of the indiscretions and should consider the separation from the service as a wake up call and correct those behavior patterns. You may want her to stay on, but that may not be the best for her or the service. You know that as well as any.
A a good military lawyer may be able to shift it from an OTH to a General if certain concessions are made.

These are options. Not all are going to be to your liking, that does not mean that they are bad.

Response by SPC Joshua H. made Feb 5 at 2015 9:23 AM

SPC Joshua H. — Thu, 05 Feb 2015 09:23:11 -0500

When I was in I was having no luck getting my signing bonus while going though my chain of command. After I had been in for almost 2 1/2 years I finally sat down with my congressman and had a conversation with him while on leave. Less than 2 weeks later I went back to Ft Carson and my CO asked what the hell I did as they had a congressional investigation into what was going on with my bonus, and I did receive it in full on my next LES. It made some of the higher ups not happy with how fast things went (and that I had gone that route after they had gotten no where) but everything did blow over after a couple of months.

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member, if you feel that is what is best, then it is the route you need to take. It CAN happen quickly...but don't always expect it to happen like that.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2015 11:16 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 23:16:47 -0400

It really depends on the reason she is receiving a court martial. I wouldn't congressional inquiry because it will not stop the process. There shouldnt be any backlash but you will be probably have to answer a few questions on why you went around your entire chain of command to do this. You cant make it any worse because a court martial is already in process. An IG complaint is only going to look into how there came to be a court martial so unless her chain of command didnt take the proper steps an IG complaint will not help. Also your daughter is not being threatened with anything. An OTH discharge is one of the repercussions with a court martial. Also two weeks isnt enough time. IF anything she can have you come speak on her behalf as a character witness which may improve her discharge from OTH to general

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2015 4:31 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Sep 2015 16:31:14 -0400

You will be happy to know, that my daughters inquisition is now over, we solved it at the lowest level. I did have to throw the iron fist into the velvet glove to get what we were asking for. The case is dismissed, she was retained, and there were no other repercussions on her part. The Sailor that was involved was Sep Boarded by Admin Board, and chose to get out with an honorable. I want to thank everyone from the bottom of my footlocker, that your advice was cherished and I really felt RP came to my aide when I most needed it. It has been a tumultuous year for me, and I thank each and everyone of you that offered up an opinion, even if I didn't agree with it. I have been off the grid for some time and it is good to be back.

With that said, get down and knock out 25 for taking the time to read this....

SSGT LoGiudice OUT

PS SPC Jeff Daley, PhD Jeff Daley, PhD you went above and beyond. Ranger On!

Response by SP6 Rudy Bruno made Mar 31 at 2018 3:56 PM

SP6 Rudy Bruno — Sat, 31 Mar 2018 15:56:04 -0400

Good Afternoon!
My question is this. I have applied to the VA located in Lake Nona Florida, I am a cardiovascular RN, with 18 years experience. I have applied to well over 15 positions, having interviewed maybe twice, and each time looked over, and no-one can give me an explanation as to why? I know, a more qualified person was selected, that said, but 15 positions in which I am qualified for and the managers that interviewed me with out question wanted me for that position. Who do Talk to to get an honest answer or even start an investigation. I am a veteran with 15 years active duty, and an Honorable discharge.

Response by SGT Anita Erickson made Feb 13 at 2019 1:44 PM

SGT Anita Erickson — Wed, 13 Feb 2019 13:44:51 -0500

If your daughter career is being threaten. I advice her not to discuss anything with her chain of command without an IG reprepresentative, record any conversations, also request that demands from her command be noted and signed by the IG. This will cut the he said, they said, I said.