I am interested to hear opinions on remedial pt programs.

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jan 2014 09:40:54 -0500

The FM says you should do PRT if you are a PT failure.  You should also not be on the same program as those who are not in compliance with their table body fat percentage.  My unit is currently using a program called the military athlete.  This is a pretty intense program, but intended for those who are already great at pt and simply need the extra push to get to that 300 mark.  Also, should a Soldier be able to deny doing this program if he says he is being hurt for it?  Understanding that he is more than willing to show up at the appointed time and do what the reg. says that he must.

Response by SFC Josh Watson made Jan 8 at 2014 10:22 AM

SFC Josh Watson — Wed, 08 Jan 2014 10:22:14 -0500

The remedial PT program should be one that focuses on improving a weakness and at the same time sustaining the strengths. It shouldn't be one that is designed to get everyone a 300+, that's the PLT/SQDs job. The remedial PT program should be designed in a way to improve the Soldier's fitness level to a point where he/she is performing satisfactorily, and can participate with his/her PLT/SQD without holding anyone else back. Those are just my thoughts though.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Jan 9 at 2014 2:47 AM

SSG Robert Burns — Thu, 09 Jan 2014 02:47:35 -0500

I don't think a Soldier has a right to willingly not participate in a PT program approved by the Commander. Now whether that Commander has the authority to prescribe another PT program would be another discussion.

If it is a program out of the "norm", I think standard PT should still be made available to the Soldier.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2014 3:29 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Jan 2014 03:29:51 -0500

Remedial PT should be the focus of improving a Soldiers fitness level so that he/she can participate in normal PT activities with his/her squad without holding them back. However, in most cases some see Soldiers to need remedial PT if their PT score isn't a 270 or above. In my opinion, Remedial PT should indeed be focus based PT that enables the Soldier to get better at what he/she lacks. Whether that to improve pushups because that's what they failed on the APFT, or to help that Soldier successfully pass weight and tape. Either way it is our job as NCOs to ensure the Soldiers in the remedial PT program come out with a successful turn out by helping run it and supervising.

In our Battalion remedial PT is ran from 0530-0630 (separating those that lack physical fitness and those that can't pass weight & Tape) and those Soldiers still have to participate in normal PT from 0630-0745. The hours suck but we as NCOs enforce the standard and ensure our Soldiers are there to improve. Overall it has help many Soldiers improve as they've come off of remedial PT; Whether that was because they didn't like getting up so early or because they really wanted to improve, it's a program that does work. As long as the remedial PT program benefits the Soldiers and not the command, I believe its a program for the best.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2014 3:58 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Jan 2014 03:58:47 -0500

In my opinion, if the soldier is truely being hurt, then he should see a medic and if the PT is hurting him, then he will be prescribed a profile. There is a negative stigma with having a profile but taking care of yourself should be your priority. This will help weed out the individuals that say the PT "hurts" them just because they are in poor shape due their own decisions in the kitchen or the gym. Ive noticed many soldiers that say say certain PT hurts them just because it takes them out of their comfort zone. PT is supposed to push you to improve. If you stay in your comfort zone, youll never improve. Just my thoughts.

Response by CW2 Joseph Evans made Jan 9 at 2014 4:08 AM

CW2 Joseph Evans — Thu, 09 Jan 2014 04:08:07 -0500

PT should be ability/goal based. Remedial programs should be for APFT Failures and Body Comp Failures, as you said, separate. Injury related to an improperly administered APFT or remedial program can be used by a Soldier to appeal a separation action. This could also impact any Officer or NCO responsible for oversight at the time of injury for dereliction of duty.
The remedial program executed by SGT S.'s BN where a 2 hour PT session for all remedials (1 hour remedial/1hour regular) is one that could easily be appealed based on physiological research that indicates 2 a day to be better for the body than a two hour session (among other things). Yes, the malingerers will shape up because it sucks, but real issues may only be made worse. Some units require that remedial occur during duty hours since it is not a punishment (extra-duty).
Command policy, garrison policy, command philosophy are all going to play a significant role in how remedial PT is implemented in a unit and which appeals are likely to succeed. PRT is the designated program for remedial, not military athlete or crossfit or any of the others. Personally I feel a more aggressive program should be pursued for remedials (for anyone actually), but it is possible that if the Soldier documents his PT program and a medical professional determines it was inappropriate for someone in his starting condition (shin splints, stress fractures, high blood pressure, whatever) and contributed to a health condition that prevented a successful 2nd APFT, it could be appealed...
Of course, you knew this on some level or you wouldn't have asked.

From my personal experience, the run was always a beast. Problem was, I
had bad running form and it contributed to shin splints and stress
fractures. My running form was never corrected, I was just told to run
harder or faster. About every 18 months I'd have a recurring injury due
to improper form... until I had an NCO that recognized the problem and
helped me correct the issue.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2014 6:45 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Jan 2014 06:45:46 -0500

I can only share a few thoughts of my own from the point of view of a Junior. At one point in my military career, consisting now of 4.5 years, I was placed on the Army Weight Control Program (Currently ABCP). The remedial program in my opinion was a complete waste. The entire group was made to show up to the normal PT time with the unit, then made to stay an extra hour after for a second session. This not only cut our personal hygiene time down to null but was completely fatiguing.

What was the program of choice, you ask? Insanity. Now, the session was led by the unit master fitness trainer but, seriously a Master Fitness Trainer and this is what all that training helped you come up with? a set of videos you played on your iphone as you try to motivate, a.k.a. scream and yell and say "there is no excuse". This approach didn't help anyone with legitimate injury or help anyone with a specific weak area like; push ups.

I get it, there are going to be malingerers and people who just don't care. But, there is also Soldiers who are there for unique situations and or injury. Remedial PT should be designed specifically for that Soldier and it doesn't have to a specific person to "fix" all the PT failures; Such as the Master Fitness trainer. Look to the immediate squad leader or team leader. This will help develop whats known as interpersonal skills for those junior leaders. It's our job as leaders to help our Soldiers.

I could care less that I am a Specialist in the ranks. It is my job as a junior leader to help a Soldier in need. Whatever his reason for being on remedial PT is im going to help him/her find their own motivation and help them off the program. I am going to design a program specific to them and have them take ownership over it. The biggest part of this is; If it takes a little extra time with that Soldier then so be it, that Soldier is worth it. Our Army has a problem that too many leaders want a book answer to refer a Soldier to, or what program should they be enrolled in. Make their problem your problem and get your hands dirty start helping.

SFC Picklesimer, If your command team is lienient enough for this type of method; because I don't see it anywhere in the FM that the Soldier has to do a set "prescribed" PT program just that the Soldier needs to be enrolled in "Remedial PT". Maybe seek out the help of a Kineseology Major or a person with an Exercise Science Degree. They usually have a background in nutrition and can design specific programs to help repair rebuild and strengthen a weak area. Personal Trainers are great too, Or if nothing else enlist the gym rat from your platoon to help.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2014 3:33 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Apr 2014 15:33:17 -0400

I am not empathetic to people that fail or are borderline fail. We all know the standard. I think we as leaders should let the weak weed them selves out instead of giving soldiers a reason to say "my leader failed me." I have been on the end of "my Sergeant failed me" and the "nobody gave me the opportunity to pass." All crap. I have taken it upon myself to stay combat ready so if I have to pull my weight, I can; not to pass a PT Test.

As much as I would like to stay on this subject fully, I feel a slight disappointment that we even consider enabling soldiers.

If I have hurt feelings, think about this: how much less complaining would the average NCO/CO do about their leaders and soldiers if "big boy" rules were used? If the Army were full of assets instead of anchors?