I have conflicting feelings over this. I know that open carry is a thing in Texas, but who crossed the line, if anyone?

2018-03-29T11:47:51-04:00

CJ Grisham, President of Open Carry Texas, Army veteran and recent candidate for State Representative in District 55, along with a couple of other people was arrested yesterday in Olmos Park, TX (Bexar County). He was tazed and subsequently injured in that arrest with a head injury and was hospitalized. I was told that the head injury was a large gash on the back of the head. He also suffered numerous scrapes on his wrists and arms.

Grisham and crew were legally opening carrying pistols and long guns in response to an event last week when an Olmos Park police officer drew guns on and detained someone with a protest sign solely for the reason of open carrying a pistol (which turned out to be a training fake).

Grisham had a phone conversation with the Olmos Park Police Chief, Rene Valenciano about their policies, etc. in which the chief seemed entirely unconcerned with his officers illegally detaining people for a perfectly legal activity. (The conversation will be linked in the comments below).

Grisham and crew went to Olmos Park yesterday and were legally and peacefully open carrying and got arrested for it. There is a video of the arrest. There was no articulated probable cause for the arrest. The police showed up, including Chief Valenciano and ordered Grisham and his crew to the ground. Grisham at least refused. It was Valenciano that personally tazed and arrested Grisham.

Between the phone call and video from the site, it's very clear this was an illegal arrest by an oath breaking police officer and they will be held accountable.

Response by SSG Jeffrey Leake made Mar 29 at 2018 11:52 AM

2018-03-29T11:52:47-04:00

https://youtu.be/eM2EtkPdVuI

CJ Grisham Arrested Tuesday March 27th, 2018

Olmos Park Police Department, Texas

Response by SGT Edward Wilcox made Mar 29 at 2018 12:55 PM

2018-03-29T12:55:10-04:00

He went there specifically to cause trouble. He refused to follow orders from a police officer. He got what he deserved.

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Mar 29 at 2018 1:47 PM

2018-03-29T13:47:34-04:00

Now accepting applications for the position of Police Chief in Olmos Park TX. Several positions for patrol officer will also be available.

I hope that Chief has a VERY good attorney on retainer. He's going to need one.

Response by SGT Edward Wilcox made Mar 29 at 2018 2:10 PM

2018-03-29T14:10:37-04:00

As is usually the case, there are 2 sides to the story. Apparently Grisham has a habit of agitation of resisting police officers.

http://www.kcentv.com/article/news/local/cj-grisham-arrested-during-open-carry-demonstration-near-san-antonio/ [login to see] 26

http://www.kcentv.com/article/news/local/cj-grisham-arrested-during-open-carry-demonstration-near-san-antonio/ [login to see] 26

C.J. Grisham arrested during open carry demonstration near San Antonio

The incident came after a tense phone call on Monday between Grisham and Valenciano.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2018 7:11 PM

2018-03-29T19:11:32-04:00

The lawyers will figure it out. Hopefully before activists from either side resort to war in the streets. I sometimes think that's what some want, and that never ends well. Issues as large and potentially dangerous as this need to be handled in court, and with some cool and unarmed heads from both sides. They got lucky this time.

Response by SPC David Willis made Mar 30 at 2018 9:53 AM

2018-03-30T09:53:04-04:00

I can never tell if we are supposed to obey the law and not have any problems or if we should partake in instigating police action and possible riots. Seems like it can be awfully selective.

Response by CW4 Guy Butler made Mar 30 at 2018 11:45 AM

2018-03-30T11:45:22-04:00

Entertaining. Apparently they never got around to updating the city ordinances.

“Until Thursday morning, the city of Olmos Park had an ordinance (Sec. 24.85) that contradicted state law because it stated it was unlawful for anyone other than an authorized peace officer to carry a loaded rifle or shotgun on a public street in the city. Section 24.86 of the ordinance said any person, firm or corporation violating the article was guilty of a misdemeanor.”

http://www.tdtnews.com/news/article_a3e909ea-336b-11e8-8b50-cb6459f639c2.html

Olmos Park gun ordinance repealed after Temple man's arrest

It’s been legal to open carry a handgun with a license since Jan. 1, 2016. It’s also a state law that residents can carry loaded long rifles in Texas without

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Mar 30 at 2018 4:11 PM

2018-03-30T16:11:28-04:00

Your challenge was accepted. Listen to the person talking his bullshit Screw them. Ask yourself what law Wyatt Earp was enforcing at the OK Corral

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Mar 30 at 2018 5:14 PM

2018-03-30T17:14:50-04:00

Its not the what, OCT claimed to want, its the who and how. They do more damage in a single month then real advocates can do good in an 18 month ramp up to the next TX legislation session.
A declared Anti gun group wishes they could do as much damage as OCT does every year to advancing Tx Gun rights.
We would all be better off if CJ and his follows dropped off the map.

Was Olmos Park city council in the wrong YES, and they were set to vote and remove the Ordinance, the same day as the OCT event, but see that does CJ no good, he can not get his name in the news cycle if the problem is handled quietly and effectively

Response by SSG Carlos Madden made Mar 30 at 2018 6:00 PM

2018-03-30T18:00:34-04:00

What is your specific question?

Response by SGT Aric Lier made Mar 30 at 2018 6:12 PM

2018-03-30T18:12:07-04:00

its coming, I dont care about this shit, but their will be a time to stand up

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2018 6:19 PM

2018-03-30T18:19:23-04:00

I guess the police Chief things he is the big man on campus and doesn’t care to uphold the laws he doesn’t like. I hope he is fired.

Response by Kenneth Grant made Mar 31 at 2018 4:36 PM

2018-03-31T16:36:21-04:00

The police were completely out of line. This was not the first indecent with this pd.
They have harassed and falsely arrested other open carriers and people holding signs criticizing the PD.

Response by MSG Stan Hutchison made Mar 31 at 2018 4:45 PM

2018-03-31T16:45:19-04:00

If this person wants to protest a law, or the actions of a law enforcement officer, the courts are the correct venue. Not walking around loaded for bear after having a confrontation prior.
I have seen so, so many conservatives tell people if a police officer tells them to do something, do it. Argue in court later.

Theses kind of scenarios are going to get out of hand someday and people are going to die.

Response by Jennifer Grisham-Rasco made Mar 31 at 2018 5:14 PM

2018-03-31T17:14:01-04:00

In essence, this was a constitutional audit that Olmos Park Police department failed to a level no one imagined. They went there to expose the corruption and constitutional violations of the Olmos Park Police department. All OPPD had to do was honor their oaths. Instead, the held armed and unarmed civilians at gunpoint, assaulted two people who were neither suspected of not committing crimes, destroyed evidence (broke camera of Jim Everard), seized and kept cell phones (because of the video that was taken on them), they tazed and assualted a man who was neither a threat nor a suspect, they kidnapped a woman on a retaliation warrant that they got for "interfering" for her videotaping them harrassing someone with a sign, then that same officer that had assaulted that lady prior got caught on tape threatening to rape her when she was in back of the police car, they falsified documents, filed false charges, lied, bragged about "squashing the rebel" because they knew who they had, held other camera operators at gunpoint, and the list goes on. Not sure why you're conflicted unless you believe in backing the blue no matter how corruption the officers are. If OPPD has egg on it's face, they put it there themselves.

Response by SGT Lee Jamison made Mar 31 at 2018 5:26 PM

2018-03-31T17:26:29-04:00

The police chief should be held accountable above all but also hold the officers accountable who obeyed an unlawful order. They should not be let off easily.

Response by PV2 Ricky Moore II made Mar 31 at 2018 6:06 PM

2018-03-31T18:06:20-04:00

I've been a member of Rally Point for quite some time. But the title of this article as well as the text of the article seem to be in conflict. Something that I haven't really seen in my entire membership with this organization.

Which leads me to believe that the article what is originally written hastily and immediately came to the defense of the officers. However it does appear that the text of the article was later changed after its author you did a lot more research and discovered what exactly had happened.

In which case I would recommend to the author that he changed the title of this article to reflect the opinions stated in the text.

Because it is drawing all sorts of negative attention from the veteran community. Any veteran community who both support the institution of law enforcement but also recognize that this particular Police Department was acting like a Mexican drug cartel.

Response by SPC Josh McCoy made Mar 31 at 2018 6:47 PM

2018-03-31T18:47:26-04:00

Slippery slope for the 1SG. I am a full supporter of open carry and the 2nd amendment. I understand the state of concern in this country about the issue. However, I can relate to both sides. I will tell you that as a former law enforcement officer, its not a citizens best interest to show up to any protest armed with a gun. Especially if the protest is against the cops. If you show up in protest against cops, they are already uneasy about it, but showing up armed and throwing it in their face is just really a poor decision. As far as the police officers, of which many are veterans, they stick together much like you do in your unit. The police chief will stand by his guys until the investigation is complete. They make mistakes, and trust me they pay for them. The incident that led to this protest, well we do not know exactly what happened. We were not there. I am not saying that the police did or did not violate civil rights. We simply do not know. Let the courts handle that mans issue. The government will not get your guns without a fight. This was not your fight. I know that no one is perfect and emotions run high, but discipline instilled in us as soldiers should teach you how and when to react if at all. We do not need anymore of this anti police movement in America any longer. The job is pretty damned hard, and demands a lot of different emotions. I have caught myself chewing out a motorist for a traffic stop for a minor violation that they did not deserve. I apologized, and gave them a warning instead of citing them. The reason I was so aggravated was because of the call I had just got off of that included a deceased infant. Think about that when you just automatically assume a cop is an ass hole. I hope that the 1SG makes a speedy recovery, and I also hope that he maybe makes a better decision next time. Lead by example, our military needs it.

Response by MAJ Von Arney made Mar 31 at 2018 8:23 PM

2018-03-31T20:23:18-04:00

So your saying if you don't like the law be quiet, stay in your room and call your representative who has already passed a law against the exact ordnance. If that doesn't work beg a judge to hive you standing against when that approach is against current judicial procedure.
It is really frustrating to us activist when people who know very little about their true rights and laws pertaining to activism and getting real change tell those who been doing this for years how to do it.
Seems like they jyst are too arrogant or not true individual freedom lovers.

Response by MAJ Von Arney made Mar 31 at 2018 8:38 PM

2018-03-31T20:38:18-04:00

What ordinary none activist don't understand is that their is a difference between an officer telling you to do something while your not arrested or detained and an officer giving orders under legal authority.
I guess some people believe it illegal to film cops from 20 - 40 feet away when no law was actually broken.

People need to learn their rights.

If your not part of the "crime" scene and pose no danger (they know who CJ is and that he is nonviolent given his long history of interactions with LEO) then why would the officers ask him to back up? They did not specify how far. I think they wanted him to back up until no one could see their abuse. Evidence justifies that accusation.

How do yall know that he was even saying no to the officer? He could of had someone talking in an ear peice and he responding. Someone off camera asking him and he responding. Cameras don't pick up all sounds.

But no. So many would rather convict him without having all the facts. It shows their true Allegiance.

I even think some people here think the NRA truely believes in the 2nd Amendment. Lol. What a laugh. Plenty of evidence to show they don't.

How many Infringement laws and policies have they supported? Too many.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2018 9:45 PM

2018-03-31T21:45:05-04:00

The complete, unedited encounter and illegal arrest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gww5_c1EikA&t=381s

Olmos Park Police Chief UNLAWFUL arrest CJ Grisham

This is the UNEDITED Facebook Live (with comments) of the Olmos Park Police Chief commiting a FELONY by slamming CJ Grisham to the ground and tasing him when...

Response by 1SG Cj Grisham made Apr 1 at 2018 2:02 AM

2018-04-01T02:02:27-04:00

Since the police were 100% in the wrong and the chief himself even said he knew open carry was legal, his department was in the wrong. Listen to my conversation with the chief jist 24 hours prior for yourself.
https://youtu.be/G_X21tsxib0

Olmos Park Police Chief Phone Call (Tyrant Alert)

This is a recording of my phone call with the Olmos Park POlice Chief. I wanted to find out what their procedure was dealing with open carriers after several...

Response by MSG Louis Alexander made Apr 1 at 2018 8:56 AM

2018-04-01T08:56:24-04:00

Alert all the Veteran groups in Texas and the surrounding states, I’m sure a minimal of 700 is foreseen and would join a peaceful march in protest. If you get others involved the Governor has to launch an investigation. Remember, The Governor is like the president they serve at the will of the American people, not the other way around. Something the Mayor of Olmos Park had better learn fast. One thing sticks in my head. Those policemen who approached Grisham appeared to be Mexican or of Mexican heritage. My question would be first; are they “Legal” US American citizens? Second: Are they certified by the State Police Academy? Thirdly: Could it possibly be a case of reverse discrimination, being they were Brown skinned, Mexican looking using their authority as a basis for racism discrimination towards white people while holding a badge and working in law enforcement? Something I’d have my Cop hating liberal attorney look into.

Response by MSgt Wayne Morris made Apr 1 at 2018 9:29 AM

2018-04-01T09:29:35-04:00

In Texas, anyone over 18 has the right to open carry a long gun except in posted gun free zones. To open carry a side arm you must have a CHL. That is it in a nutshell.

Response by SSG Erik McKinster made Apr 1 at 2018 9:35 AM

2018-04-01T09:35:03-04:00

Open Carry is not just "a thing"in Texas, son. It is the law of the land in a Super Majority of the States within this Union. Because of CJ Grisham, and Pastor Terry Holcomb, Texas finally had the same right as do more than 40 other States.

I have no idea how someone could have "mixed feelings" having sworn the oath & knowing the facts.

Response by 1SG Dave Carello made Apr 1 at 2018 9:46 AM

2018-04-01T09:46:05-04:00

Carrying a "Training Fake" to me, is a recipe for disaster and a foolish move. That being said. I'm sure a lawsuit will RIGHTFULLY be moving forward.

Response by PVT Raymond Lopez made Apr 1 at 2018 9:00 PM

2018-04-01T21:00:02-04:00

I AM A RETIRED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER AND NOTHING STUPID EVER SURPRISES ME!!! I am on old man well past seventy now and in my youth which some people refer to as the Stone Age as opposed to today which some of us refer to as the “stoned age” there was an organization known as the John Birch Society which swore that fluoridation was a Communist plot to destroy minds of America’s youth. Has it ever occurred to you that the Birchers were right?

Response by SN Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2018 9:33 PM

2018-04-02T21:33:39-04:00

A army general once moved tanks to phenix city AL to correct a dirty sheriff. Sounds like we need a display of force again.

Response by 1SG Thomas Griffiths made Apr 4 at 2018 9:09 AM

2018-04-04T09:09:25-04:00

When the MAN thinks he is above the law.

Response by SPC David Willis made Apr 4 at 2018 9:18 AM

2018-04-04T09:18:01-04:00

Id also like to know if any senior leaders here petitioned to allow soldiers to store their personal weapons in their barracks rooms. To me that's just as equal a violation of their 2A rights.

Response by PFC Kim Fergerson made Apr 6 at 2018 5:35 PM

2018-04-06T17:35:17-04:00

It's very sad when we have a 1SG push his personal platform here on RP. This is NOT Facebook. To the original poster, what point does this serve to enlighten those of us who come to RP for current, past & future camaraderie & memories? I am not an attorney, I pursue law as a hobby only, but common sense says that if they (cops, anyone, etc) point a gun at u & ARE in a position of authority, u comply but state you ARE doing so under duress, LOUDLY & CLEARLY! All that better so it can be heard. 1SG, do it your way, but know this: we fought for our rights already, we know how much reverence the govt has for our services----that being zilch, & a dead ex-soldier can't protest a damn thing!!!!! Compliance doesn't mean culpable. It's safety in numbers & a chance to win in court & fight another day. Having said this, I will explain that I am totally for open carry but prefer concealed carry, as no thug can take a weapon they can't see! Also, as one who has a temper, I personally don't carry at all, because IF I snapped, there literally would be a blood bath, & innocents DO NOT deserve such. Me & my PTSD prefer peace. On top of all this, I have challenged cops verbally but there weren't pointing a gun at me, their request was stupid & illogical, & I wasn't carrying any weapon, nor did they have reason to arrest me----this involved a downed tree in my yard & 1 cop asking me not to view the fallen end of said tree! Stand if u feel u must, but laws r not made to be broken. They are made to be challenged, if unreasonable, or illegal, in court. I have a great brain & the soul of the patriot that I am but I have also NEVER needed to carry a firearm to prove my point. We aren't in combat, so as u were, 1SG. That's my 2 cents & I am entitled to such. I live in GA.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Apr 7 at 2018 10:51 AM

2018-04-07T10:51:30-04:00

I don't understand -if open carry is the law, then why was there an arrest? Why was there a conflict? If the MSG was in compliance- then the local authorities went over the line. If the MSG was not in compliance, then he went over the line, simple.

Response by CPL Charles Yuditsky made Apr 13 at 2018 7:20 PM

2018-04-13T19:20:27-04:00

If they keep this up they will find out what the French Revolution was like.

Response by Lt Col Charlie Brown made Apr 15 at 2018 12:05 PM

2018-04-15T12:05:20-04:00

The police crossed the line. BTW, I used to live in Bexar County and a good number of the police there are not to be trusted. I rarely say things like that, but none of us who were female, would pull over for a police officer; we would drive to the station if stopped.

Response by PO1 Michael Robison made Apr 21 at 2018 11:09 AM

2018-04-21T11:09:33-04:00

This was gross misconduct. The Chief already had an exchange with Grisham and it would appear, made sure he was on-scene to administer his own dose of summary judgment. Illegal and at the very least, deprivation if civil rights under the color of authority. Chief Valenciano should be investigated and terminated and not allowed to be a police chief anywhere in America.

Response by SFC Richard Bailes made Apr 23 at 2018 11:54 AM

2018-04-23T11:54:22-04:00

SFC (RET) U.S. ARMY., Sice Texas has an open Law/policy in effect. What was the problem? I believe that the police have a little look at the law.

Response by PO2 John Driskill made Apr 27 at 2018 4:13 AM

2018-04-27T04:13:53-04:00

Did he have a DPS issued open carry permit? State law says you can legally open carry long guns not pistols unless you have an open carry license. He file a complaint with the State AG’s office in Austin for Offical Oppression and civil law suit the chief and the city.

Response by PO1 Mike Washburne made Apr 29 at 2018 5:13 PM

2018-04-29T17:13:13-04:00

I believe in open carry, where legal. It wasn't much more than 100 years ago, that all adults could carry. I feel that open or concealed carry reduces crime and improves community safety. Mr. Grisham needs to bring suit against this sheriff and ask the NRA and other pro-gun entities to help him. The sheriff appears to be very liberal and anti-gun.

Response by SPC Kevin Ford made Apr 30 at 2018 9:13 AM

2018-04-30T09:13:57-04:00

It looks like there was an ordinance in place but it also appears said ordinance was very likely contrary to state law. The police chose to enforce the ordinance. It seems the debate here is if the police should have correctly realized the ordinance was contrary to state law and refused to enforce it. (Reading more responses in the thread it is clear that the chief knew the ordinance was contrary to state law).

As an aside the ordinance is now gone as a result.

http://www.tdtnews.com/news/article_a3e909ea-336b-11e8-8b50-cb6459f639c2.html

Olmos Park gun ordinance repealed after Temple man's arrest

It’s been legal to open carry a handgun with a license since Jan. 1, 2016. It’s also a state law that residents can carry loaded long rifles in Texas without

Response by SPC Steven Depuy made May 1 at 2018 7:38 AM

2018-05-01T07:38:33-04:00

I am tired of people demanding people get fired because they don't like something they said. The guy was making a joke. Was it a joke in bad taste, most likely. If he actually does something like that, put his ass in jail. But this crap is out of control.

Response by Capt Michael Brown made May 7 at 2018 11:36 AM

2018-05-07T11:36:28-04:00

It is always a bad idea to ignore a police officers orders. Period. I am a big advocate of the Second Ammendment. I personally carry everywhere I go. Part of my job now is training people in firearm safety and concealed and carry techniques. I personally think that open carry is a bad idea. I carry to protect myself and my family. I would never want a bad guy to know that I have a weapon. It would give him the edge to possibly take me out before I knew of a threat. However, regardless of my personal option, it sounds like this Grisham fellow was within his rights. If he would have allowed himself to be detained by the officers he might have a court case against the the police department. For sure he would be without the head injury.
This budding politician would do better to follow directions from a policeman.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made May 7 at 2018 12:14 PM

2018-05-07T12:14:23-04:00

Someone is about to settle out of court.

Response by Cpl Bill Johnson made May 8 at 2018 9:14 AM

2018-05-08T09:14:17-04:00

Setting aside the legal right to carry in that particular state. Perhaps the gentlemen in question should have gotten on the ground when the officer told him to do so.

Response by SGT Paul (Eric) Haines made May 9 at 2018 7:48 PM

2018-05-09T19:48:38-04:00

I’ve talked to CJ in the past, mostly to ask him about the first incident that put him in the open carry spot light. He lived near me at the time (just outside Ft Hood) and was arrested by an ignorant sheriff’s deputy while walking with his son out in the country, working on his Eagle Scout requirements. CJ was carrying an M-4 style AR, slung on his back, and was reported by an overexcited mom who drove by and was “triggered” by the big, black, scary gun. He was still on active duty at the time, and it made the rounds of tv, radio and news paper headlines. Since it’s been legal to open carry a long gun in Texas for quite awhile, that case went away pretty quickly. This one is bound to cause a ruckus! That police chief is either a belligerent anti-gun zealot, or an idiot. You don’t get to pick and choose the laws you enforce, or support. As a law enforcement professional you swear an oath to uphold and defend the Texas State Constitution, as well as the U.S. Constitution. That was blatantly violated in this case, along with two or three Bill of Rights amendments, not counting the 2nd! Hope you heal fast CJ, and keep ‘em on point.

Response by PO2 Dale Brown made May 10 at 2018 5:29 PM

2018-05-10T17:29:24-04:00

They should be fired and prosecuted. Stupid can’t be fixed.

Response by Capt David Bays made May 10 at 2018 5:59 PM

2018-05-10T17:59:49-04:00

They both crossed the line. But Grisham and OTC crossed the line first. There was an ordinance that prohibited anyone other than a police officer from carrying a loaded rifle on public streets. Had Grisham complied with the lawful order enforcing the ordinance, he would have standing to sue to challenge the ordinance. Just because OTC believed the ordinance was unlawful, and even if they were right, that does not give them the right to ignore the police. He didn't comply and the police crossed the line and escalated the otherwise peaceful protest. And the police crossed another line trying to cover-up how they handled the situation. Even if the ordnance was unconstitutional, that does not make the order of the police trying to enforce the ordinance an unlawful order that can be ignored without consequence.

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made May 10 at 2018 6:41 PM

2018-05-10T18:41:38-04:00

The way I see it - right or wrong - we have private citizens openly disobeying an appointed law official - which resulted in a confrontation - there is a right way and a wrong way - and confronting police officers when you have firearms is not the smartest thing to do and you are lucky that no one was shot - you claim not to bow before tyranny - but what you did is not what the constitution is for - when the officer asked you to stand down you should have complied - as I tell troops on this site that going against your NCO's is a no win situation in the moment, even if the NCO was wrong - you comply, then utilize the open door policies - you 1SG are acting and behaving as a private and that confrontation has done more harm then good in the national arena for NRA and 2nd amendment advocates - you 1SG are that officer who is looking for personal glory at the expense of the overall mission, and his men. Had you complied and had the video supporting you, you would have had more people sympathetic to your cause - instead - you appear to be a radical, deliberately looking for confrontations and you WILL, not a matter of if, get someone shot or killed in these confrontations. As a second amendment advocate, I will at every opportunity, condemn you and your actions. This is not the way to effect change - there are and always will be other avenues then direct confrontations with law officers. Your phone the day before was an explicit call to challenge, and then you cry victim when they show up. sorry - not buying the bovine fecal matter that you espouse.

Response by MSgt Kenneth Driver made May 11 at 2018 4:30 AM

2018-05-11T04:30:38-04:00

Sack the police chief!

Response by SGT Bob Teagle made May 19 at 2018 9:54 PM

2018-05-19T21:54:16-04:00

Wiw how infortunate. May justice prevail.

Response by MSgt Manlio Mendoza made May 20 at 2018 6:16 AM

2018-05-20T06:16:40-04:00

Good thing that they were not black or Hispanic open and carry pistols and AR-15s because all good have been shot to death before asking them any questions, particularly the one resisting arrest.

Response by GySgt Moses Lozano made May 20 at 2018 1:47 PM

2018-05-20T13:47:40-04:00

I think it is a simple matter of common sense. Once your licensed, it can be a good feeling to know you can carry your pistol openly in public. However, it comes with great responsibility. There is a responsibility for carrying a deadly weapon in public that many are not fully aware of. Those who are or who were in law enforcement know this responsibility well. Carrying a gun in public doesn't make you tougher or shouldn't make you feel superior. It should be just to inform those around you that you are trained with it and of its presence.
If you want to carry a gun that bad anywhere without question then become a cop. Otherwise, be content with being able carry a weapon in certain parts of society and hope you never have to really use it to protect yourself or your family.

Response by 1SG Cj Grisham made May 21 at 2018 2:10 PM

2018-05-21T14:10:06-04:00

We have hired a law firm to ensure that Justice is served and this Police Department, especially the chief, is held accountable.

Response by CWO4 Roberto Obong made May 29 at 2018 7:28 AM

2018-05-29T07:28:11-04:00

So where's the video(s)? We would like to see at the very least three angles! I want to see the facts prior to bashing police or any other so called professionals in this room.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2018 5:00 PM

2018-05-29T17:00:58-04:00

One of the issues I see is that police officers think they "are" the law, it makes them feel more powerful. But, they are not the law, only the people the "enforce laws" that are on the books. This chief and the officers involved should be reminded of that, and be fired.

Response by SSgt David Marks made Jun 3 at 2018 10:13 AM

2018-06-03T10:13:58-04:00

I don't know who crossed the line first, BUT even though we are an open carry state, there are still many cities and police Dept's that are run by a Democrat majority and oppose open carry. There are several businesses I have open carried in before, but now someone has complained about open carry in the business that now if you carry and you want to go into this business you must carry it concealed.

Response by LT Terry Lober made Jun 3 at 2018 8:44 PM

2018-06-03T20:44:49-04:00

Sue them! All they understand is money. When the Sheriff cannot operate his Gestapo for lack of money only then will police overreaching end. Sue them for all of us!

Response by LT Terry Lober made Jun 3 at 2018 8:48 PM

2018-06-03T20:48:40-04:00

Sue the living crap out of them. All they understand is money. When this poor excuse for a " lawman" is broke and his Dept. closed for lack of funds, only then will this type of criminal activity, by those sworn to uphold the law, stop. Hit them in the wallet!

Response by SPC Steve dePinet made Jun 13 at 2018 12:57 PM

2018-06-13T12:57:54-04:00

While I respect and support Law Enforcement Officers in general, I also recognize that there are some who 1) don't know the law, 2) don't care, and 3) don't respect individual rights. Those officers must be prosecuted, to teach the others that individual rights trump their prejudices.

Response by SPC Fran Pearson made Jun 18 at 2018 4:44 PM

2018-06-18T16:44:42-04:00

Valenciano was out of line! That's one of the things I most admire abou Texas! To have this law abiding citizen get taxed and arrested is unconscionable! Throw theChief in his own jail!

Response by PO2 Nick Burke made Jul 1 at 2018 7:21 PM

2018-07-01T19:21:35-04:00

They need to be sued. As a department, city and personally. Force his resignation.

Response by Dixie Davis made Jul 3 at 2018 11:53 PM

2018-07-03T23:53:41-04:00

The problem with open carry is that one never knows if a person carrying a firearm is about to use it for nefarious purposes. This is why open carry is not a sustainable idea in an urban environment. Open carry advocates have purposefully paraded around parks, schools, and other areas where a lot of children congregate, calling attention to the fact that they're carrying firearms. They are asking for confrontation. Well, this guy got it. The police officers had no idea if he was about to turn the firearm on them or an innocent civilian.

How long does it take for a person carrying a firearm to shoot someone? Seconds. Less than a second. Far less than the time it would take for a police officer to ascertain that the person was dangerous. The logical end result of open carry is for everyone to go around carrying firearms, prepared to shoot the moment another person looks like they're going to shoot.

These open carry advocates who parade around, begging for confrontation, are on a power trip. They want to make a point, show that they have the power to frighten others (if I see a civilian walking into a school carrying a firearm, explain to me why I should NOT panic, or at the very least confront that person as to who they are, where they're going, and why they're carrying a firearm!) It may be legal, but they did not first establish with the police that they posed no danger to the police officers. We've have many innocent civilians gunned down by police because the police "felt threatened". Often these innocent civilians did not even have a firearm! Philando Castile held a concealed carry permit and informed the officer of that fact. The officer told him to get his drivers license out of his wallet. Castile complied with the officer, reached for his wallet, and the officer emptied something like 9 rounds into Castile. The officer was acquitted, because he feared for his life as Castile reached for his wallet.

This guy was aching for a confrontation, and he got it. This is the problem with open carry. These guys are purposefully going around making other people fear for their safety. They are forcing other people to alter their daily lives, because of the perceived threat and danger they pose. The public has the right not to constantly fear for their lives because a potentially homicidal maniac is parading around, displaying his power and control over the public at large.

Response by Dixie Davis made Jul 3 at 2018 11:57 PM

2018-07-03T23:57:26-04:00

It's also funny that NO ONE (at least no one whose response I've read so far) has commented that military bases do not allow open carry of firearms unless the person is authorized to do so. Try carrying a rifle onto a military base, or walking around carrying a rifle outside of areas that one expects to find people carrying rifles. Sure, MPs are authorized to carry firearms, and there may be other personnel who are authorized to carry firearms, but there is a reason that firearms are fairly tightly controlled on military bases. Try walking in and out of the barracks carrying a civilian rifle, lounging around in civilian clothes while holding a firearm, and see how quickly the MPs or security detail responds.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Jul 4 at 2018 1:29 AM

2018-07-04T01:29:27-04:00

Well ... That series of video was interesting.
I have a concealed carry licence, but realistically there are days in the summer when its too hot to wear a jacket or such so I carry with it under my Pocket T. I live in Kentucky so it's always legal to open-carry and sometimes I do that too. Without drama or concern.
I originally got a CCL at the urging of a friend of mine who was a LEO. Taking the classes, firing the target shoot and waiting for the arrival of my card were simple and easy. I still don't worry about when to conceal and when to open carry.
Recently I took my wife to Shoney's for a late breakfast. I was open carry that day due to the hot day and i didn't think about putting a shirt over my pistol since we were hungry and I had often eaten there with an open-carry gun on my hip. Afterward as I was waiting to pay an couple of young (20s) women came near to me and commented loudly about how dangerous for everyone that I had 'a gun'. one was videoing me.
I ignored them.
I couple of minutes later an older guy came up to me and presented me with his card. He told me he taught concealed-carry classes and I should contact him about classes. He said then I wouldn't be embarrassed and could be confident that no one would harass me about carrying a gun. By the time he finished speaking, he wasn't looking real confident his-self, probably because I was grinning as .
I told him I had a CCL and he looked surprised then asked why I was open-carry. I chuckled and said if he taught CCL then he should know Open-Carry was a Right in Kentucky, while Concealed-Carry was a Privilege.
I looked at his card, saw it was a generic US Concealed Carry Association without his name and phone. So I asked him if he had one with those items. He dug one out. I told him thanks and he then asked me if I was an LEO. I told him yes, adding that I was new hire at my county's jail.
I joined my patiently waiting wife by the door and she asked me if I had tipped the waitress. He had distracted me, so I returned back to leave a tip at our table.
Can you guess who was eating breakfast with the two young ladies?
.
My advice to all is to do what you do and never take a wooden nickel. The whole deal made my day one of the funniest I've had in a long time.

Response by SGT Bryan O'Reilly made Jul 4 at 2018 4:24 AM

2018-07-04T04:24:12-04:00

There are about 1.1 m sworn peace officers in the US, and their only reward for performing the job perfectly is getting to do it again tomorrow and that is largely because we demand perfection from them but not from those they serve and protect, That said, we have a segment of our population that tries to pretend the 2nd amendment doesn't exist they do their kids a disservice by not teaching them the basics of what is an American birthright and it's why we have mishaps and why IMO kids become fascinated. and fixated And another part of the population that want access to weapons they are unqualified to use throw in the politics and it is amazing we haven't seen more of this. That doesn't excuse it. On the contrary, it underlines the problem. But this sounds like a clear use of excessive force and a lack of judgement. I would add that there is also a huge difference between the drilling and safety training we receive and what an avg civ undergoes with regard to safety etc. My dad was a CHP bike cop so I learned early and I think that has a big part in it. Anyway, it sounds like the Chief should be on the carpet for his attitude and for apparently condoning this behavior

Response by SSG Tim Esplin made Jul 8 at 2018 3:25 PM

2018-07-08T15:25:50-04:00

It's not a revolution until shots are fired and blood is spilt.

Response by PVT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2018 11:05 PM

2018-07-08T23:05:57-04:00

This is bullshit! That vet had every right to do what he was doing, especially in Texas. I hope that officer gets fired for this

Response by Sgt Frank Staples made Jul 13 at 2018 12:51 AM

2018-07-13T00:51:48-04:00

Far as I can tell the police were absolutely in the wrong. It's high time our Second Amendment rights, not privileges, are recognized countrywide. At my advanced age I have also noticed that police departments are hiring kids who are arrogant and belligerent and have department heads who encourage such behavior. I have worked closely with several branches of law enforcement in my fire career and this development concerns and irritates me.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2018 3:56 PM

2018-07-13T15:56:21-04:00

I am always somewhat suspicious of stories written in such a manner as to arouse strong emotions in people. It has been happening a lot over the last four years or so. This event in Texas of course is not as serious as some incidents which have provoked city-wide violent outrage over alleged police misconduct.
I was not present in Olmos Park so any information I have been presented could easily have been manipulated. As a former police investigator I have many more questions than answers.
Please note the following from 1/SGT Grisham's Open Carry Texas website:

"CAN I BE ARRESTED FOR OPEN CARRY? You can be arrested for any reason or no reason in Texas."

I do not know why the initial detention occurred (NOTE: detention and arrest are usually different in most jurisdictions). No individual can righteously second guess a LEO who is "honestly" discharging his duty. A police review board or a court may second guess the officer(s) actions but still often make errors. I suspect that the "peace" was disturbed or violated and when 1/SGT Grisham refused to follow a lawful order, was tazed and arrested. Disturbing the peace is a criminal offense though not normally a serious one. A criminal offense of any kind (while armed) in every jurisdiction of which I am aware, immediately invalidates the right to carry a firearm.
As an objective observer I suspect that 1/SGT Grisham was intentionally engaging in behavior likely to provoke a specific enforcement action by Chief Valenciano and/or his department. The use of a taser on an armed individual failing to follow a lawful order is reasonable (NOTE: the law normally sides with enforcement when the officer's or public safety could be at risk). Did the chief over react? I suspect that better communication would have been beneficial for all. Now the courts will decide. Not Monday morning quarterbacks like us.

Response by TSgt Tommy Amparano made Jul 16 at 2018 6:30 PM

2018-07-16T18:30:26-04:00

Not usually a fan of open carry, though I do like the option especially when headed to the range or on an outdoor activity like motorcycle riding, hiking, fishing, or camping. I just don't think it is necessary to advertise what I have when I have it. I assume that everyone is carrying and I think many people assumes that anyone could be carrying especially here in Arizona.
If things go down, I don't want to be the first person targeted because I pose the immediate threat since I am the most visible. Conceal carry is what I do most often, so I don't have most people paying extra attention to me. People are often too unpredictable with what is right in front of them. All i need is for some mentally disturbed person going for my gun because it is readily available to him and in his line of site.
As for this police chief and his officers, they need some education that a lawsuit should help out with.

Response by GySgt Michael Harris made Jul 20 at 2018 9:26 AM

2018-07-20T09:26:59-04:00

It's time to demand from our elected officials in Congress to pass a Federal open and conceal carry law that allows Americas to exercise their 2nd Amendment in any state, district, or territory; we know POTUS will sign it. What part of ("A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.") don't they understand!

Response by SSG Brian MacBain made Jul 20 at 2018 11:21 PM

2018-07-20T23:21:57-04:00

It is sad that the Police Chief and to those involved gives all LEO's a bad name. I truly hope they lose their jobs and their license to be LEO's anywhere in the USA.

Response by MAJ Bob Firth made Jul 22 at 2018 8:47 AM

2018-07-22T08:47:24-04:00

What we have is one side of the story. If the police show up and give you instructions to get on the ground, I recommend doing it. You do not know what information they may have been given. With about 40 police officers murdered this year, I am sure they were nervous around a group of armed persons that they did not know the intentions of. I have done this job for 25 years and I have no intention of being murdered. I really dont give a shit about your particular cause which is making you perform provocative actions. I am going home at the end of the shift. If you carry a weapon, use common sense. I would expect a former first sergeant to be a responsible adult. I support the second amendment. But with every right comes responsibility.

Response by Sgt John Earley made Jul 27 at 2018 10:22 AM

2018-07-27T10:22:54-04:00

I wish they would show the people that has the thumbs down so we could commit on their stupidity.

Response by PO1 Richard Cormier made Jul 28 at 2018 1:41 PM

2018-07-28T13:41:13-04:00

Unfortunately, I do not know if this is a Dem or Repub. city. The Police Chief serves at the behest and favor of the Mayor. It is an appointed POLITICAL job. The Chief does NOT need any training in law enforcement, just the appointment by the Mayor.
Now, had you obeyed the officers request, you could easily sue the City, the PD, and the Mayor. Good luck on fighting a obstruction charge if ANY of the officers say they were doing this as a preventive safety act.

Just my $0.02

Response by Jerry Rivas made Jul 29 at 2018 5:39 AM

2018-07-29T05:39:19-04:00

What the hell is wrong with so many cops nowadays?

Response by Capt Jerry Howard made Jul 31 at 2018 10:33 AM

2018-07-31T10:33:24-04:00

Yes.. Don't know what the conflict is.....The Constitution of the US (and the Constitution of Texas) are big things in Texas.....

Response by Capt Jerry Howard made Jul 31 at 2018 10:41 AM

2018-07-31T10:41:37-04:00

Whats are you conflicted aboutt.? The officers crossed the line - big time. While I prefer concealed carry, there are times when open would be appropriate. Whether or not this occasion was appropriate or not is beside the point legally. Two things that are very "big in Texas" are the U.S. Constitution and the Texas Constitution. There is another thing to consider about "crossing the line" that is very clear in Texas Statues: It is a criminal offense for officials (including corrupt police officers) to deprive citizens of rights "under color of law."

Response by Jerry Rivas made Aug 6 at 2018 11:27 AM

2018-08-06T11:27:10-04:00

I see a civil suit in the making. This left wing police chief needs to lose his job and his accreditation's as well.

Response by COL Jon Lopey made Aug 10 at 2018 6:49 PM

2018-08-10T18:49:46-04:00

As a 40-year law enforcement veteran and an elected official, veteran, and current practitioner, I hate to see these types of interchanges because most often such encounters can be resolved peacefully. When one is exercising their rights they do have constitutional safeguards but even when you are right or think you are in the right, it is better to comply with the instructions from law enforcement and sort out the conflicting issues after the situation is stabilized. Right and wrong can be sorted out afterwards by those involved or by state/federal investigators or the courts. When one does not comply with orders from a peace officer that is normally a separate offense (e.g., resisting, obstructing, delaying a peace officer) at least in my state. It is true, the police must reasonably justify their actions and they are subject to public scrutiny, civil liability and in some extreme cases, could even be criminally culpable. The 2nd Amendment issue is a sensitive one and obviously sacred to most Americans; however, federal, state, and local laws pertaining to firearms vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. I don't condone the actions of the police in this case or the demonstrators based on what I know but you also have to realize there have been a lot of peace officers killed in Texas this year and in previous years and police at all levels get a little touchy over handguns and long guns being displayed, especially at demonstrations. I sympathize with the cause but you have to realize cops have officer safety concerns and this situation should have been handled in such a way on both sides so that mutual understanding, respect, and a peaceful outcome was likely to occur instead of a confrontation and the arrest of at least some of the demonstrators. I am a big 2nd Amendment advocate but all gun owners have to be prudent in how they exercise their rights and realize that most negative contacts, even those that appear to be reasonably orchestrated, will be used by anti-gun advocates and in many instances, the media, to portray a negative perception of gun owners. I am grieved that this happened but I am also reluctant to pass judgment on either side because I wasn't there and videos can be deceiving and may not capture all of the action or facts in every incident. I'd like to think I would have handled this situation differently as a law enforcement leader but it is important at this juncture that an independent investigative body such as the State's Texas Rangers or perhaps attorney general investigate the incident to properly assess where the blame belongs and in this case, there may be some scrutiny applied to both factions. Thanks, Jon

Response by PO3 Lynn Spalding made Aug 12 at 2018 3:55 PM

2018-08-12T15:55:41-04:00

Burn the chief and the officers asses that broke the law.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2018 11:11 PM

2018-08-12T23:11:20-04:00

New York city illegally detains citizens from other states when they are carrying. And the courts there allow it. Same for its own citizens.

Response by SPC Douglas Bolton made Aug 13 at 2018 8:57 PM

2018-08-13T20:57:11-04:00

SSG Jeffrey Leake Got in the wrong line when the brains were handed out.

Response by SP5 Geoffrey Vannerson made Aug 20 at 2018 12:15 PM

2018-08-20T12:15:23-04:00

Just another DOUCHEBAG who couldn't serve in the military so he is trying to make a name for himself by tasering a military person. He'll get off with a warning and maybe suspended with pay for a time then he will be right back in office violating peoples rights again. The time is coming! Soon they will be screaming "police lives matter." Keep violating our rights, see what happens!

Response by SFC Jim Turner made Aug 24 at 2018 4:35 PM

2018-08-24T16:35:15-04:00

As a law enforcement this report sickens me. If true, I hope the chief and his office serve prison time for such an agreagious call constitutional violation

Response by Lt Col Kurtis Sutley made Aug 25 at 2018 3:14 AM

2018-08-25T03:14:46-04:00

Just because you are in the right does not relieve you from the responsibility to follow a LEOs order. By being in the right but refusing to comply he moved over into the wrong category. Now he's injured (could have died) and complicit in a situation that escalated as a direct result of his actions. Whether right or wrong, just what are officers supposed to do when an armed citizen refuses to comply? Short answer: First the sheriff was wrong and then Grisham was wrong. Two wrongs still don't make a right.

Response by SSG Lee Edwards made Aug 31 at 2018 10:53 AM

2018-08-31T10:53:10-04:00

Based on this report, I believe Chief Valenciano, at the very least, should be reprimanded and retrained in the laws of the State of Texas. I would also support his impeachment as a Law Enforcement Officer.

Response by CPL Dennis Clark made Sep 2 at 2018 12:23 PM

2018-09-02T12:23:13-04:00

This is the exact definition of tyranny. Tyranny is the number one reason the Second Amendment exists. As military service members we took an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States, against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. To me, anybody who would violate someone's constitutional right is a domestic enemy. I don't know about any of you but this looks to be law enforcement declaring war against the people. Sounds like I'm going to be picking up the phone and calling the police chief, and asking him why he chooses to be a domestic enemy of this country. Protecting the Constitution is an oath I took, and will never stop protecting it, even as a veteran. As George Mason said, in a nutshell: "to disarm the American people is the quickest way to enslave them." The police technically work for the government, to protect and serve the People. Let's not forget a statement made by Andrew Jackson: "the government infringing on any constitutional right of the people gives the people the right to take the government's right away to govern." Even though law enforcement is normally the people's daily contact with the government I do not believe the actions of these traitors are representing our government in any way because I still see the US Constitution in effect. Therefore, the Chief of Police, and the arresting officers, are declaring war against an entire nation. Either they have gonads bigger than their state, or they are incredibly stupid. All I can say is that if I were there; as someone who supports and defends the Constitution I would have peacefully informed the police chief, and officers of their behavior, and make it very clear that their actions are a declaration of war against the nation, and to continue their tyranny with caution. I am sure that I would have been placed under arrest as well but law enforcement will never win in this situation because they are not above the law. Good will always, always triumph over evil.

Response by SGT Denny Espinosa made Sep 7 at 2018 11:00 AM

2018-09-07T11:00:40-04:00

"Since I did not act quickly enough to one or the other officer’s commands, the Chief of Police, knowing I was not a threat and knowing I was not committing criminal activity, tasered me, injured me and had me arrested." - CJ Grisham
The original article stated Grisham "refused" the order to hit the ground. Grisham's legal statement says otherwise. This difference changes the ramifications of Grisham's actions.

Response by SPC Mike Davis made Sep 7 at 2018 11:46 AM

2018-09-07T11:46:13-04:00

A citizen with a gun..........is a citizen
A citizen without a gun......is.....a....SLAVE!

Response by CPL James S. made Sep 21 at 2018 2:50 PM

2018-09-21T14:50:13-04:00

Whereas the officer may have been acting illegally to arrest a citizen for no cause, to resist is illegal also.

IMHO - What should have happend is that Grisham should have obeyed the officers instructions to the letter and then sued for false arrest, etc.

This isn't a problem that needs to be dealt with on the streets with violence. This is something that needs to be in a court room, especially when were talking false arrest or similar situations where a sherrif or LEO oversteps the law and attempts to enforce their opinion or belief on the public.

Response by PO1 Michael Garrett made Sep 21 at 2018 4:50 PM

2018-09-21T16:50:11-04:00

I really don't know a whole lot about this situation. Indeed, my reading of this post was really the first I'd heard anything about it. I must say though, that Bexar County may have different laws which they may feel apply within the Texas Constitution. I'm certain there's some major legal aspects here which will have to be addressed. Ultimately the Second Amendment supersedes everything. But some people feel that the second amendment has a different meaning in that only National Guard units should be allowed to carry weapons. Others may take a different approach that only certain Firearms are allowed to the citizens of the United States. Others have a much more open definition in that American citizen should be allowed to carry any weapon they choose.
This case will probably go all the way to the Supreme Court. Just where does civil Authority begin and end when it comes to the 2nd Amendment?

Response by PO3 Elliott Arthur made Sep 26 at 2018 4:42 PM

2018-09-26T16:42:37-04:00

This is a clear case of a violation of civil rights under color of law. Last time I saw one of these it got the officer a $10,000 fine and 10 years in federal prison. Hopefully, the FBI is enroute.

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made Sep 26 at 2018 5:14 PM

2018-09-26T17:14:13-04:00

Chief Valenciano should be setting the example here and apparently he did. It was the wrong one and he should be held personally responsible for his actions.

Response by Robert Leviton made Oct 4 at 2018 11:06 AM

2018-10-04T11:06:55-04:00

Time too ruin an anti-constitutional, Anti-American police chiefs life!

Response by SPC David S. made Oct 4 at 2018 11:15 AM

2018-10-04T11:15:36-04:00

WTH! - this is the complete opposite of what LEO's I know have told me. I was actually some what berated once for not having my weapon on me - "You have a CCW - so why aren't you carring!?! - you're defeating the purpose of a CCW - carry your weapon!" I hope this gains some traction.

Response by SPC Chris Ison made Oct 5 at 2018 9:08 PM

2018-10-05T21:08:49-04:00

Hmm here is a very interesting line:
The police showed up, including Chief Valenciano and ordered Grisham and his crew to the ground. Grisham at least refused. It was Valenciano that personally tazed and arrested Grisham.

So, what we have here is simple: FAILURE TO COMPLY.

Isn't the big argument for "blue lives matter" simple: "Just do what you are told?"

This is why open carry is stupid. Not only can the police not tell whoa bad guy is with a gun, i an open carry sate, neither can the civilians. If i was a guy who wanted to rob and kill people with a gun, i would definitely move to an open carry state, that way i could just walk around with my gun, and no one could stop, as there is no PROBABLY CAUSE.

Here is my issue with gun owners:
Most of them do not understand the constitution, or the purpose of the second amendment.
Most of them have that gun because of fear.
Most of them are not qualified to use a firearm in a combat situation.
You do not know if a person who has bought a firearm legally, is still in the right mind to have access to that firearm , after the purchase, be it one day or 20 years.
They want to have that gun with them, so they can ":legally" murder someone. Which in my mind makes them just as evil as the person they think they are going to defend us from.

Contrary to popular belief the democrats did not invent gun control, it was Marshall's like Wyatt Earp, who got sick of drunk cowboys shooting unarmed or inexperienced civilians.

You can not get a tommy gun anymore, because of the mafia and the use of the tommy gun in the 1920's and later for robbery and murder. There is no difference in this and assault rifles, bump stocks, etc.

Police want gun control more than anyone, because when they know only RESPONSIBLE people have guns, there lives are safer, and how they deal with the public is easier. This is great example of that.

Response by SrA John Monette made Oct 5 at 2018 9:50 PM

2018-10-05T21:50:40-04:00

any update on this abominable misuse of force?

Response by MSgt Ronnie Kelly made Oct 8 at 2018 7:08 AM

2018-10-08T07:08:55-04:00

Power corrupts if not controlled. Sounds as though he has the "I am the chief and my word rules" syndrome. Hopefully this situation get cleaned up before it gets out of hand

Response by Sgt Charles Welling made Oct 12 at 2018 8:48 AM

2018-10-12T08:48:24-04:00

Sue the F hell out of them!!!!!!!!!!!!

Response by PO2 Monte Wisehart made Oct 14 at 2018 2:41 PM

2018-10-14T14:41:31-04:00

An overzealous LEO who obviously has an agenda! I too hope he looses his job, a scofflaw LEO is not a public servant!

Response by CMSgt David Allen made Oct 17 at 2018 9:05 PM

2018-10-17T21:05:23-04:00

I hold a concealed carry permit and am usually armed when I leave home. I know open carry is legal here in Texas but I don’t understand why folks choose to do so. I live in San Antonio, and hadn’t heard of this incident. At any rate, it seems all the fuss could’ve been avoided by simply following the officers instructions. No one would’ve been hurt, and the legality sorted afterwards. I haven’t viewed the videos, but from the narrative it appears the OPPD is completely out of control and must be addressed from top down.

Response by PV2 Glen Lewis made Oct 19 at 2018 7:13 PM

2018-10-19T19:13:43-04:00

From what you've written, overall the police were in violation but the injuries could have been avoided had the citizens complied with the initial order by the police to get on the ground. This is the kind of incident I expected when Texas passed this open carry law. I don't agree with it anyway but it's the law and the police should pay attention to it if it it's in place. My opinion, this isn't the wild west anymore and we don't need everyone walking around with a gun on their hip.

Response by Cpl Kevin Wells made Oct 21 at 2018 6:02 PM

2018-10-21T18:02:34-04:00

If Grisham was obeying the laws under open carry then:the Chief was in the wrong and trying to make an example out of Grisham. He(the Police chief) needs to lose his job. I was done in a similar fashion. The officer lost his job.

Response by PO1 Sanford Snyder made Oct 22 at 2018 10:40 AM

2018-10-22T10:40:30-04:00

Looking at the original issue, the Illegal actions of the police, a lawyer can argue any action they took subsequent to their initial drawing of weapons on a lawful assembly could constitute all action taken beyond that point to also be illegal. Whew, ok, meaning the OPPD were in the wrong, so ordering those there to the ground, arresting, confiscating, would also be illegal. It could also fall under the fruit of the poisoned tree excuse for denying evidence, the initial action was illegal, therefore you can't use evidence from it. This case could get interesting.

Response by SFC Richard Baerlocher made Oct 22 at 2018 7:29 PM

2018-10-22T19:29:42-04:00

This is a large part of the problem with open carry laws. The police should have requested them to tell them why they were in the park. CJ Grisham, President of Open Carry Texas apparently went to the park to trigger a confrontation because he knew how the police chief felt. As far as the police chief, he was also in the wrong. Chief Valenciano went to the park to intentionally confront CJ Grisham. There was no real reason to tase Grisham as he was only refusing, and not showing any real intent at hostility. They should both be taken to court and allow the court to decide on a punishement for them both.

Response by Cpl Johnathan Yother made Oct 28 at 2018 5:09 PM

2018-10-28T17:09:35-04:00

Lawsuit against the city and police for violating their oaths, and violating US and Texas Constitutional rights, and criminal charges against the officers using excessive force while violating the law.

Response by SPC Randy Torgerson made Oct 28 at 2018 11:23 PM

2018-10-28T23:23:51-04:00

Police Chief should be prosecuted and so should the cops who followed these ridiculous orders. TO ALL POLICE OFFICERS, IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND OR KNOW WHY YOUR ARRESTING SOMEONE, STOP, THINK AND PULL BACK.

Response by CPT Allen Childs made Nov 1 at 2018 1:55 PM

2018-11-01T13:55:02-04:00

Crazy cop stuff, no problems with open carry in NC

Response by CPT Allen Childs made Nov 1 at 2018 1:56 PM

2018-11-01T13:56:54-04:00

Crazy Cop Chief for sure, no problems with open carry in NC. Hope Sgt Grisham gets well and continues to lead the Texas Advance. God Bless!

Response by Gordon Bleam made Nov 2 at 2018 3:39 PM

2018-11-02T15:39:30-04:00

the officers were enforcing the local ordinance (that has been repealed) at the time. they probably could and should have found a better way to de-escalate or choose not to enforce that one ordinance but...

Not sure if it can be an illegal arrest since they were enforcing something that was on the books but broke state law.

Response by 2LT Corey Watson made Nov 3 at 2018 10:16 AM

2018-11-03T10:16:58-04:00

What site is the video located on? From what I am reading this department from the Chief down is a train wreck. But would need to see exactly what happened to verify.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2018 11:49 PM

2018-11-03T23:49:24-04:00

I have no real comment on the article. The following is just my opinion.

If you are going to open carry do so with a pistol or revolver in a holster. When you carry a long gun you look like a Starbucks Commando begging for attention, and you usually get it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2018 11:22 AM

2018-11-06T11:22:58-05:00

I've known CJ for better then 10 years now. Very few that I know are as tough a fighter for our basic Constitutional rights. I'd gladly stand side-by-side with him if he asked me to. -Especially if his Mrs. cooks dinner again beforehand :-) )

Response by PO1 Todd B. made Nov 6 at 2018 4:10 PM

2018-11-06T16:10:23-05:00

They need to sue the living shit out of that entire department AND file a formal complaint against that department to their state officials and the federal DOJ and FBI - IF all that was written is true.

I would like to see the video, are there any links available?

Response by A1C P.t. Broiles made Nov 15 at 2018 10:05 PM

2018-11-15T22:05:36-05:00

I use to be with a sheriff's office . Many officers have a god problem in their head . They are right and for the most part it is difficult to get an officer busted for an 'illegal' arrest . He will just say ' i did not know ' and judges go along with it and will slap their hands . These guys should have been smarter and known better .

Response by Pvt Robert L. Lamoreaux made Nov 18 at 2018 9:01 AM

2018-11-18T09:01:36-05:00

I am responding as a retired lawyer (and note that I am a Life Member of the NRA) as well as a moderately successful historian focusing on particular (military) firearms and "private arms trafficking".
There is a vast difference between what one CAN do under the law and what one SHOULD do. As a one-time Class 3 (machine gun owner), I COULD HAVE carried the machine gun, fully exposed, into a bank. But SHOULD I have?
I understand the concept of "peaceful assembly". ANTIFA pisses me off (they aren't "liberals", from what I read; they are anarchists). When a community has a group of armed individuals (some probably carrying the "dreaded black rifles") in a public park, there is going to be a police response. Under the "Terry" case, one can be detained and frisked for reasonable suspicion. In encountering a group of armed individuals, I do not think a court would find it unreasonable for an officer (or group of officers) to order visibly armed individuals to take a position that would make it difficult for the individual to use the lawfully carried weapon against the officer during the course of the "investigative stop". Of course, the above depends somewhat on whether a permit for the demonstration was required and obtained.
I am, of course, presuming some facts not given. However, I believe that some degree of common sense, discretion, and responsibility (maturity) has to be shown by firearms owners. The backlash from those who are suspicious of or fear firearms could be devastating.

Response by MSgt James "Buck" Buchanan made Nov 19 at 2018 1:06 PM

2018-11-19T13:06:34-05:00

Some people drink the kool-aid, lose their sense of right and wrong, sworn duty, then drift off into the na-na land of positional power thinking that everyone will kowtow.

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Nov 20 at 2018 4:37 PM

2018-11-20T16:37:20-05:00

Chief will care when he gets his ass sued off.

Response by TSgt Frank T made Nov 28 at 2018 2:28 AM

2018-11-28T02:28:15-05:00

In wy we don't need a permit from the state to carry concealed or openly. People here are very polite. As far as the incident sue the county , city, officers involved and the chief of police

Response by SFC Stanley Sayers made Nov 29 at 2018 8:12 AM

2018-11-29T08:12:33-05:00

Yes, the open carry law is in their favor. However, in this case Grisham violated a request to get down on the ground. If he had obeyed that order instead of resisting it. He would have one hell of a case for unlawful detainment and or arrest.

Response by PFC Terry Elliott made Nov 29 at 2018 9:42 AM

2018-11-29T09:42:17-05:00

Wow. Smdh.

Response by SSgt Carter Floyd made Dec 1 at 2018 11:52 AM

2018-12-01T11:52:25-05:00

Too often open carry is done for no other reason than to be provocative. If you want to protest police wrong doing, carry concealed and carry a sign. Hire a lawyer and start a Go Fund Me page to pay him. Some cops look for an opportunity to throw their badge around and the law be damned. They should be punished for it, but ya gotta be smart about it and do your skirmishing in court.

Response by Kathlean Keesler made Dec 2 at 2018 10:23 AM

2018-12-02T10:23:41-05:00

Wow - holy cow, thanks for sharing this. I stand with you “conflicting feelings”
Tazed- that bothers me.
Second Amendment to the United States Constitution protects the right of people to bear arms & was adopted December 15, 1791. (Is worth fighting for?)
Kate the FREE civilian -
Question *Open Carry - how do we define responsible (safety 1st) gun owners? Not to provoke anger issues - but are all “cops” responsible open carry badges?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2018 4:37 PM

2018-12-02T16:37:09-05:00

1SG Grisham, the same thing happened here in white co ar. The police chief and the dept. We're both investigated and the chief lost his and subsequently went to prison. The biggest issue I have with this is that I am from Bexar co and it pains me to hear that such a thing can happen in the state that I love. But Top, I'm here for you in more ways than one. I hope this message get to you personally, for the fact that if I can help you, I want to. I was in the army for 28 years and a police officer for almost 10, the police ALWAYS have an us vs. Them attitude but in these two cases, they need to be held accountable for their unruly and illegal actions. All the best.

SFC ret. Scotty D Guice

Response by MSG Don H. made Dec 3 at 2018 1:19 PM

2018-12-03T13:19:14-05:00

Although Texas is for the most part a red state, we have pockets of blue. One of my soldier is also an Austin police officer who was suspended and threatened with termination for doing his job; another officer had made a legal traffic stop but needed backup from my Soldier because a crowd was forming. It was dark and my Soldiers saw something in the hands of a person in the crowd, he shine a flashlight to see what was in the guys hands. Well it turned out to be a cell phone and the guy was video taping. The guy filed a compliant and then ran to the local news and it became a big deal for a few days, Chief ASSavado threatened to fire my Soldier even before the investigation started. Luckily for my Soldier, Assavado was hired by Houston before the investigation happened.

The San Antonio police Chief has released illegal aliens and refused to work with ICE, despite Texas passing a no sanctuary city law. Several DAs have promised to go after bad cops, many times believing criminals over good cops.

Response by SPC Patrick McNamara made Dec 3 at 2018 10:04 PM

2018-12-03T22:04:25-05:00

Unfortunately, this is just an example of the slow exposure and necessary weeding out of over-zealous police who sometimes overemphasize the need to take control of all situations at any cost, rather than adhere to the oath that they swore to when they became sworn officers. This chief, and his department, and the city who passively enabled them, must and hopefully will pay a price for this abuse of power.

Response by SFC James Tihanyi made Dec 4 at 2018 1:59 PM

2018-12-04T13:59:07-05:00

We have to be vigilant, and stand up against despots and tyrants! WE must assure that, 'The Land of the FREE," stays just that! I escaped from the Communist Paradise of Hungary in November 1956, I have first hand experience, what it means to live under that Ideology! Here in the U.S., we must take our freedoms, given to us by our Funding Fathers, our, "CONSTITUTION", very seriously! This nation must stay, strong, we must assure, safeguard, the, sanctity of the individual, against the, 'Control Freaks', who are bent on undermining, restricting our freedoms! It comes with a price! That is why, I suggest that You take your gun/guns everywhere You go with You! One never knows, when a situation will arise, when your, or your loved ones, or the safety of your fellow citizens around You will be challenged, so be ready to provide protection, to the best of your abilities! That is the PRICE we PAY, to be FREE!! Peace be with You!!

Response by Emily Thomas made Dec 5 at 2018 8:13 AM

2018-12-05T08:13:57-05:00

This doesn't have the full information - a police officer gave him orders, which he disobeyed, then he started an argument with the cops. He was arrested for assaulting a police officer and hindering a public servant. He also has a history of intentionally antagonizing police officers.

Response by MSgt Darren VanDerwilt made Dec 6 at 2018 10:26 AM

2018-12-06T10:26:12-05:00

So, first off, do not resist. Let the arrest happen. Afterwards, class action suit. The police chief, and ALL law enforcement, should be made to learn about the 1946 Battle of Athens, and heed the warning.

Response by SSG Patrick Sloan made Dec 6 at 2018 10:42 PM

2018-12-06T22:42:18-05:00

This happened earlier this year. It seems there was a city ordinance on open carry. I don't how that works as the State has set the law on when and where to open carry. Bexar County is a very odd duck. Very freaking libtarded. The only place in the state that switchblades can't be carried.

Response by PO3 Kenneth Mckinnon made Dec 7 at 2018 3:02 AM

2018-12-07T03:02:13-05:00

CJ is a kook. I will read more about this before I comment further.

Response by SFC Deacon Armando Sánchez made Dec 7 at 2018 7:21 AM

2018-12-07T07:21:27-05:00

I’d like to Follow this case if anything new comes of it. He should be Fined, & FIRED! Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Response by Cpl Steve Harris made Dec 8 at 2018 12:05 AM

2018-12-08T00:05:26-05:00

Sounds like some Leo's should NOT be in the profession of law enforcement!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 9 at 2018 11:49 AM

2018-12-09T11:49:10-05:00

I don't understand the "conflicting feelings". Open carry is not a "thing" in Texas, it is the LAW in Texas. And I may or may not disagree with the LAW in Texas with regards to open carry, but that is completely irrelevant. It was the LAW (and still is) at the time the incident took place. Apparently (because I wasn't there to witness it), a Texas police chief decided to flaunt the law and in the process, as someone else very eloquently stated, demonstrated the "corruption and constitutional violations of the Olmos Park Police department." Olmos Park has a problem: a scofflaw police chief. There is nothing more dangerous than a person with power that wields it without regard to the law. This is what our Founding Fathers wanted to prohibit. This is why the Constitution was written and this nation formed.
You ask a question: "who crossed that line, if anyone?" That last "if anyone" implies you have some doubt... that it is unclear to you if anyone crossed the line you speak about. Since you don't offer details, I am left to suppose that you mean the "violence" line. On this basis, I don't understand the question either, because the narration of the incident that I have read CLEARLY indicate that it was the police that decided to engage in the threat of force and the execution of forceful acts, to include violent attacks on non-threatening citizens. To get a "second opinion", I also discussed the case with a cousin, who is a police officer (although not in Texas), who indicated that the police actions, as he read them, were completely out of line. So I am confused by your question and the "if anyone" tagged on to the end.
Perhaps if you can be more specific regarding your "conflicting feelings"; their nature and what, specifically, causes them... and if you can be more specific as to what the "line that was crossed is" (I've concluded it was the violence line, but there is no guarantee that this was what you meant), one might be able to respond in a more detailed manner.

Response by Sgt Stonewall Jackson III made Dec 12 at 2018 10:45 AM

2018-12-12T10:45:53-05:00

A good case for having a Drone!

Response by Sgt Tom Verify made Dec 15 at 2018 5:17 PM

2018-12-15T17:17:00-05:00

Bottom line is this: when the police give you an order to do something, you do it. If you believe you have cause for a complaint, hire an attorney and fight it out in court later. Why can't people learn that you just can't go around arguing and fighting with the police. You never win.

Response by CPT Jeff Robinette made Dec 16 at 2018 2:57 PM

2018-12-16T14:57:30-05:00

Unfortunately, I have had an armed Robber shove his illegally possessed weapon shoved in my face. I was working at the Auto Parts store I managed in Richmond VA. I am convinced that this crackhead would have shot me if undid anything other than what he told men to do.
I consider myself to be an excellent shot I trained regularly and shot PPC.
The company I worked for had a struct No Personal Weapon Policy.
The Big Stud Infantryman in me was diminished by that incident.
I knew what was happening as soon as i heard my cashier's call.
If I were armed then I would have used better combat tactics than I did.

Response by CPT Jeff Robinette made Dec 16 at 2018 3:02 PM

2018-12-16T15:02:07-05:00

As a side note, the state has followed the dictates and meaning of the US Constitution. A public servant in a community cannot make changes to the state laws without the legislation to permit or. . his goose is cooked.

Response by MSgt Allen Chandler made Dec 16 at 2018 8:54 PM

2018-12-16T20:54:52-05:00

Wow I hope there’s more to the story looks like we’re going down another rabbit hole of everybody doing the wrong thing at the wrong time

Response by LTC James McElreath made Dec 17 at 2018 2:32 AM

2018-12-17T02:32:07-05:00

Well my friend, after the Chief is subpoenaed into court he will change his tune. He is ultimately responsible for the actions of his men. He is the one responsible for the officers training and he has deeper pockets than his men, and the city has even deeper pockets. I do believe that in Texas it is fine to open carry, they also have concealed carry . I really think that city is in for a very big lawsuit, and rightfully so. The police Chief, the stupid officer (that acted irresponsible), and the city will feel the heat. If there is anything involving race, they will have to put a going out of business sign.

Response by LTC James McElreath made Dec 17 at 2018 2:40 AM

2018-12-17T02:40:24-05:00

Those police are in trouble. All aspects of their actions were excessive force. Glad I do not work there.

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Dec 17 at 2018 4:15 AM

2018-12-17T04:15:40-05:00

Sounds like a great law suit, loss of a few dozen job positions and a violation of Texas law about open carry.

Response by SGT Kyle Bickley made Dec 18 at 2018 7:12 AM

2018-12-18T07:12:51-05:00

When the law in Texas tells ya get on the ground, you do it! Their job is public safety. I carry to, concealed. You wanna act stupid and entitled, not obey their commands it's not gonna go well for you!

Response by SPC Thomas Smith made Dec 18 at 2018 8:42 AM

2018-12-18T08:42:41-05:00

As much as I am law abiding. The police are more liberal and it's because they get power from the liberals. They do not want to lose that power. Not only that those that say they are brave that so not believe in what is happening are true cowards because they are to scared to risk everything and go against what in their hearts they know are wrong

Response by SGT James Murphy made Dec 18 at 2018 11:04 AM

2018-12-18T11:04:29-05:00

The 2nd Amendment was NOT about Deer Hunting it was about tyrants: 1.
a cruel and oppressive ruler or government.

Response by SPC Raymond Hanley made Dec 18 at 2018 1:34 PM

2018-12-18T13:34:45-05:00

Pretty typical that Cops have no idea what they are doing. Giving a cop a gun is like giving a toddler your car keys.

Response by CPL Chris Mensinger made Dec 18 at 2018 1:54 PM

2018-12-18T13:54:00-05:00

Having not been there or witnessed what happened, I'm not going to start Monday Morning quarterbacking something I don't have all of the details on. Regardless of who's right or wrong, when the police start ordering you to the ground, it's not the time to argue the validity of the detention or subsequent arrest.

Response by PO1 Scott Armitage made Dec 19 at 2018 8:12 AM

2018-12-19T08:12:03-05:00

Sounds like some blue need to be orange. They’re trying their own dictatorship. Boot em and change their color.

Response by Kathlean Keesler made Dec 19 at 2018 2:51 PM

2018-12-19T14:51:01-05:00

My interest in this RallyPoint topic has ties to what I learned from General William G Boykin on the movie Revelation: Dawn of Global Government. *Revelationonthemovie.info

Response by Kathlean Keesler made Dec 19 at 2018 2:54 PM

2018-12-19T14:54:00-05:00

Is it true 2018, our Veterans, irrelevant of their devotion or "decorations" are considered terrorist? That would or would that end our Constitutional right to bare arms against treason tyranny? Perplexed "free" citizen.

Response by CCMSgt Joe Dehorty made Dec 20 at 2018 10:59 AM

2018-12-20T10:59:04-05:00

SSG Jeffrey Leake, While CJ Grisham was technically correct, he was wrong in not obeying the orders of a LEO. Had he obeyed, this would not have happened and he could have his case heard in court. End of story! BTW, I live in two states where open carry is legal, Virginia in the summer and Nevada in the winter. I have a CHP (concealed handgun permit) in Virginia, which is honored in Nevada but I very seldom open carry, but I carry whenever I leave home. When concealed, I always advise the LEO if approached, that I am carrying.
One other thing, the Commonwealth of Virginia does not require classroom or range certification when applying for a CHP if you are a veteran. Just present your DD-214 or retired card to the county clerk when applying. We have a lot of people that are from north of the M/D line that live there because of our handgun laws.

Response by SFC Joseph McCausland made Dec 21 at 2018 2:20 PM

2018-12-21T14:20:45-05:00

Well as the saying goes.... there's always two sides to every coin. On one side is the officer who set everything in motion by detaining the protester. On the other side of the coin is Mr. Grisham and company who appeared to be looking for a confrontation. They should have known in today's society and especially in Texas given the numerous shooting incidents that have occurred in recent years, that a group of men carrying guns and rifles in a public park would quickly get back to local law enforcement who would have to act on such information. Unfortunately, as far as the sheriff and his deputies are concerned, I think it goes back to the old west mentality. "I'm the law around here and you will do as I say"...... regardless of the right or wrong of the situation. I hope Mr. Grisham gets a good lawyer because the way I see it.... the sheriff over stepped his authority and definitely infringed on Grisham's and his friends rights under the 2nd Amendment and Texas law; however being a veteran and someone seeking public office, you would think 1SG Grisham would have know better.
As far as any injury claim ( if any) caused by the tazing, and any subsequent injuries, one could say they were a result of him refusing to follow a lawful order given by the sheriff.

Response by PO2 Donald Schortmann Sr made Dec 23 at 2018 12:40 PM

2018-12-23T12:40:55-05:00

Is the Police Chief related to Adolf Hitler? The cops that took orders from him happily, must be SS Brown shirts in training.

Response by MSG Jay Jackson made Dec 23 at 2018 7:33 PM

2018-12-23T19:33:05-05:00

I am not a lawyer but what crime was CJ committing? So if no crime was being committed and the officer took action based on no violation of a law, then did he violate the persons basic rights. Was CJ flashing the weapon or minding his business walking with a weapons visible on his person as the law allows? The city ordinance was illegal by the fact that the state has passed laws stating it is legal to open carry a weapon. Sounds like a lawsuit is in order. The voters of this city should clean house next election. I wonder what is next. Maybe they will start just walking into homes and searching them without warrants. After all you can take it up with the judge when we’re done. This is not what we should be hearing from a LEO in my opinion.

Response by PO1 Kevin Dougherty made Dec 24 at 2018 12:01 AM

2018-12-24T00:01:51-05:00

From the info here this is a big, fat fail for the Chief. I suspect they will be advertising for a new chief in a very short order.

Response by SP5 Ed McCoy made Dec 24 at 2018 3:17 PM

2018-12-24T15:17:40-05:00

I hope the officer is stripped of his police duties and retirement and both individuals and city are sued but time.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 26 at 2018 3:26 AM

2018-12-26T03:26:47-05:00

Don't give two shits about anyone that open carries. There's no reason for it except to intimidate others. That's the bright line; their 'Rights' interfering with my peace in public areas.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Dec 26 at 2018 11:09 AM

2018-12-26T11:09:11-05:00

Just my two cents. Well now some people just don't know when to stop in this case it would appear we have two or more.

Response by MSG Mike OHandley made Dec 26 at 2018 11:09 PM

2018-12-26T23:09:22-05:00

Here's how this retired LEO sees this,

Unless the municipality has some kind of an ordinance prohibiting open carry (In violation of state and/or federal law), I also believe Grisham was not in the wrong. However, if he was ordered by the police to get on the ground he should have done it immediately and without argument, allowed the police to take the weapons and take them to jail, and then made an issue out of the entire matter later.

Showing Valenciano to be what he is, a thug, and then suing him and the department for false arrest; thus perhaps causing the municipality to have to pay a hefty settlement and probably resulting in the Chief's dismissal, would have been a smarter way to make the point. By refusing to comply, he forced Valenciano's hand and ended up getting himself injured. Now they are liable to try and cite him for resisting arrest. disorderly conduct or something else equally as specious.

Response by SFC Wade W. made Dec 27 at 2018 11:04 PM

2018-12-27T23:04:08-05:00

I read through many of the responses so if I missed someone addressing this I apologize. 1SG Cj Grisham did nothing wrong in not complying to the Chief's directions. Would it have made things easier? Sure. The fact is every citizen of our nation has the right to resist an illegal/unlawful arrest. Some would say that you have an obligation to do so. I won't go that far but some would. The law is in place for situations where someone would be concerned about their safety if arrested by an officer or agency that has shown an intent to do harm. I believe that the 1SG had reason to be concerned for his safety as this particular Chief showed that he had no regard for the law or people's rights.
As a retired MP and someone who has taught LE in my community, I would not normally advise people to disregard a police officer's orders. In this situation, I would have done just as 1SG Grisham did. I am a very strong and vocal advocate for our God-given rights as laid out in our Bill of Rights so I believe that a public display as was executed here was needed and correct.
May God bless you, CJ and the Great State of Texas and our Great Nation, The United States of America.

Response by 1stLt Jon Finstad made Dec 28 at 2018 11:09 AM

2018-12-28T11:09:30-05:00

Yeah, the thing you don't understand is that they have the backing of the local DA, politicians, people, etc. They'll keep sweeping it under the rug, and they'll keep getting away with it. I would have to say that Bexar county in Texas is indeed the most corrupt in the state. Dare say, more corrupt than New Orleans, LA. Don't taunt the law there, they'll arrest you and kill you in the jail. This is a proven fact.

Response by SFC Domingo M. made Dec 28 at 2018 5:48 PM

2018-12-28T17:48:48-05:00

Chief Valenciano was definitely in the wrong. I don't mind seeing anyone legally carrying a weapon in the open. What I do mind is a criminal doing concealed carry, that is a reason for open carry. It lessens the possibility for a criminal to commit mass murder. I hope the group had a permit for their demonstration and abiding by all rules. This Chief can expect to be liable for his extreme actions.

Response by SSG Marshall Paul made Dec 30 at 2018 1:06 AM

2018-12-30T01:06:59-05:00

I am a retired Texas cop. And Vietnam vet. And guns do not freak me out. Open carry people are posers, I get that. But when they tell you to get on the ground, just do it. Sheesh. Make your point later, with an attorney. You do not know what the cop was told on his radio on the way to your event.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2018 6:18 PM

2018-12-30T18:18:03-05:00

Really nothing to be conflicted about, the police chief is in the wrong and put his personal feelings into it and violated their constitutional rights! He needs to be relieved of duty and the officers as well

Response by MSG Frederick Otero made Dec 30 at 2018 8:22 PM

2018-12-30T20:22:35-05:00

Grisham probably not aware of how many officer have been killed and probably should have followed the officers directive to go to ground as the others did; till the officers cleared up any legal issues about who was carrying legally, just cause your in an open carry state does not mean you cannot be or should not be stopped and directed to assume a position that will allow the officers to make a safe investigation as to fire arms license and legal permit. So as for me, not feeling this guys pain.

Response by SSG Lon Watson made Dec 31 at 2018 9:00 AM

2018-12-31T09:00:59-05:00

First I hate open carry. I love the anonymity of concealed carry. But this sounds like an illegal arrest.

Response by Sgt Jude Eschete made Dec 31 at 2018 9:49 AM

2018-12-31T09:49:56-05:00

If they were being peaceful then they were merely exercising their 1st and 2nd Amendment rights at the same time.

Amendment I:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment II
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

The police went overboard, those wrongfully arrested had their rights violated on two levels.

Response by SSG David Andrews made Dec 31 at 2018 11:49 AM

2018-12-31T11:49:35-05:00

This was unacceptable and any law enforcement officer that participated should be indicted and tried and convicted and do prison time for violating not only their oath to protect the Constitution but for violating the Constitutional Rights of those arrested and physically abused! I have absolutely no use or tolerance for actions such as these!

Response by SGT Ivan Igitol made Jan 2 at 2019 4:32 PM

2019-01-02T16:32:06-05:00

That is messed up... Someone stepped on their poncho this time and will pay. smfh...

Response by CPL Kerns Ward made Jan 3 at 2019 4:38 PM

2019-01-03T16:38:50-05:00

Not the first time this has happened in Olmus.

Response by SP5 Dennis Loberger made Jan 7 at 2019 6:34 PM

2019-01-07T18:34:03-05:00

I have a concealed carry permit in my state which is accepted in a number of others. Wanted to preface my comments so my comments aren't misunderstood. It strikes me as interesting that refusal to follow police orders often ends in someone receiving injuries. It would appear this police department has some issues. Hope it gets sorted out and corrected

Response by SSgt Observa Arounda made Jan 14 at 2019 11:39 AM

2019-01-14T11:39:44-05:00

Ok, Ive got to chime in on this one. Both folks in this were idiots. First though a bit of background.

Long guns are OK in Texas, no permit required. Handguns (or what appears to be a handgun to the officer) requires what is now called a Texas License to Carry (it was formerly called a CHL Concealed handgun license before open carry was approved at the legislature)

Im not even going to address the city ordinance, as it is irrelevant to the issue here.

I am going to say that I did discuss this very issue with the Sgt shortly after the open carry law was passed and warned him of this possibility if he ran into some coppers that were out to prove something.

As everything comes down to reasonableness of conduct, and establishing probable cause.

Couple of issues, In texas it is unlawful to resist an arrest, EVEN IF THE ARREST PROVES TO BE UNLAWFUL (Texas penal code 38.03)

Pretty much everything else can be covered by disorderly conduct, or interference with duties of public servant.

So lets play this out in the manner that would end up with you in jail and the coppers in the clear.
You're in the park holding your protest, and the coppers show up. You appear to be armed with a handgun, so the coppers make a demand to see your license as is required under Texas Govt code §411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE.
If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder’s person
when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display
identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder’s driver’s
license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license
holder’s handgun license.

They can also disarm you during the conduct (rarely used, but its there ) TGC §411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM.
(a) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer’s official
duties may disarm a license holder at any time the officer reasonably believes
it is necessary for the protection of the license holder, officer, or another
individual. The peace officer shall return the handgun to the license holder before
discharging the license holder from the scene if the officer determines that the
license holder is not a threat to the officer, license holder, or another individual
and if the license holder has not violated any provision of this subchapter or
committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the license holder

They might do this at gunpoint or not depending on how militant they are feeling that day (how dangerous they consider you) and not only do they have the law on their side, they also have probable cause at the outset if they can articulate clearly ie: As less than one percent of the Texas population has a license to carry a handgun openly, it is a 99% chance that the individual carrying is doing so in violation of the law (remember this is about reasonableness)

So CJ says "no" ( he already stated to me that he would not comply with the requirement to display) , fine you're under arrest for unlawfully carrying weapon TPC 46.02 .

If you resist force is used, hell lets say for the sake of argument that you get tased and bump your melon.

At the end, the coppers find out that you do have a license (or it wasnt a real handgun). Ok, you're still under arrest, for interfering with duties of public servant, resisting arrest, maybe disorderly conduct if the coppers can find someone in that park that was alarmed or offended by the totality of your actions. (like the interfering charge he was previously convicted of)

I tried to tell CJ this shortly after the open carry law was passed, and how it could result in good folks getting injured or killed if they behaved in this manner. He was uninterested and wanted to make a scene to push the constitutional carry front.

End result? Stupid hurts, the chief is still the chief, and while it appears that the current charges have been dropped, it does not preclude the prosecutor recharging when they have their ducks in a row.

Lastly, open carry is stupid in the general public. It makes you a target and gives up advantage. The first indication for a criminal that they made poor target selection should be muzzle flash and the smell of brimstone, coincidentally why we dont march in a line when advancing on the enemy, and try to conceal our movements when we can.

Response by SGT Mark M. made Jan 24 at 2019 7:32 AM

2019-01-24T07:32:02-05:00

sue them personally and if the city refuses to fire them sue the city too, sue them into back into the stone age making them so broke they live on the streets where our brothers / sisters are forced to live by the VA.

Response by Darreld Studie made Jan 24 at 2019 7:49 AM

2019-01-24T07:49:19-05:00

It is very clear that the Police committed a crime in this case. Olmos Park Police Chief Rene Valeniano and his crooked officers should be brought up on charges of assault with intent to do bodily harm, denial of rights, false arrest and any other criminal charges as they are clearly the criminals here. This is behaviour one would expect from police in the Fascist state of Kalifornication not Texas. Under no circumstances should police be allowed to act in this manner and against the law. These crooked police officers need to be made an example of so that police are forced to act within the law at all times.

Response by CWO3 Warren Gaudreau made Jan 28 at 2019 7:35 AM

2019-01-28T07:35:58-05:00

It is not wise to ignore an order from a cop, especially when he knows or thinks you are armed even though the cop is in the wrong. There have been many instances of innocent people being severely injured or worse when an idiot cop thinks he could be in a threat situation. The mere sight of a citizen with a legal weapon scares the crap out of them.

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Jan 29 at 2019 7:12 PM

2019-01-29T19:12:31-05:00

I haven't heard of any incidents. And I lived in Killeen Tx for years, and it's CRAZY easy to buy a gun with all the pawn shops in the city. The only exception(if you want to call it an exception) is what Nidal Hassan did in 2009 at Fort Hood.

Response by CPL Richard Henry made Jan 29 at 2019 10:11 PM

2019-01-29T22:11:31-05:00

I hope the corrupt police get their do but being I'm from Maryland I really have lost faith that justice will go to the people who deserve it ,seems in Maryland the police are never held accountable even when caught dont get the sentence that citizens get maybe I'm jaded

Response by PO2 Geofrey Holmes made Feb 4 at 2019 2:18 AM

2019-02-04T02:18:47-05:00

I might get grief behind it but, this was bound to happen. When its ignored as it happens to minorites and and poor whitws its not long before it happens to everyone.

Response by SSgt David Marks made Mar 3 at 2019 11:21 PM

2019-03-03T23:21:07-05:00

The biggest problem with certain liberal leaning police departments across the U. S., is that they are choosing which laws they will enforce and which ones they won't. Every police officer and law enforcement officers from the lowly small town cop all the was to the highest LE Officer in the country, they swear an oath to enforce all local state and federal laws without prejudice. However as you see on various news agencies, they are choosing not to enforce laws they disagree with. It's a disgrace. Anyone refusing to do their jobs that they have sworn to do, needs to be fired.

Response by SGT Juan Robledo made Mar 8 at 2019 9:47 PM

2019-03-08T21:47:31-05:00

The chief of that city broke the law, and the SOB knows it, it happens often and in other Texas cities, the governor needs to put a stop to this baseless arrests

Response by COL John Hudson made Mar 17 at 2019 12:05 PM

2019-03-17T12:05:26-04:00

From the IG Desk:

Our first lesson in "IG School" was, "Never own the first spot report." Excellent guidance. I must assume there is more than meets the eye test to this issue. One doesn't become a Senior Police Official by being stupid or uneducated in law. I'll form no opinion until further detail of "WHY" this occurred is made public.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2019 9:06 AM

2019-03-20T09:06:33-04:00

Another POS with a badge.

Response by PVT Mark Zehner made Mar 24 at 2019 9:10 PM

2019-03-24T21:10:39-04:00

The state Attorney General can relieve him as sheriff permanently and should be removed

Response by SGT Jim Sharon made Mar 27 at 2019 1:03 PM

2019-03-27T13:03:03-04:00

The courts will decide who was at fault in this incident. I may be an anomaly since I grew up dirt poor from the country and we had firearms around us all the time. During my military time including a tour of Vietnam being around firearms was second nature to me and didn't cause any alarm except when the enemy had them and sent rounds my way intending harm. This caused some undue stress especially when the rounds were 81MM and got too darn close. I also made my life career as a police officer and have been around firearms my entire life. I kept my issued firearm in a closet and raised two sons who never touched or bothered it. Gun safety and explaining to them the do's and don't of guy safety were very important. My sons are now in their 30's and safe and familiar with guys. I'm not familiar with Texas law but know There are federal, state laws and local ordinances. Local agencies can enact laws such as making it illegal to open carry firearms say in a city building or school. While being very PRO gun my advise would be to get the local law repealed and THEN open carry. I've seen so many people, police officers included over reacting to an incident and it almost always leads to problems. I may not agree with your rule of not drinking or carrying a cigar in your house but I'll respect your decision and honor it. If I can't talk you out of your rule I'll either respect it or not visit. Protest those city officials, sign petitions, go door to door and respectfully let the voters know the good and bad and get the law changed and THEN open carry. Of course as the old saying goes, opinions are like butt holes everybody's got one.

Response by Sgt Michael Betts made Apr 7 at 2019 12:11 PM

2019-04-07T12:11:00-04:00

Open carry is a "thing" which is legal in Texas ONLY if one has a Texas CCW or a CCW from a state which has reciprocity with Texas, i.e., each state recognizes a CCW from the other. Mr. Grisham and his followers put me in mind of those knuckleheads who claim to be "sovereign citizens" who are not subject to the laws everybody else must follow. They claimed to be "teaching the cops a lesson" by openly defying Texas law as it is written because they don't agree with it. Do that and you can expect to be arrested. The proper place for this controversy is in the Texas Legislature, not on the street.

Response by SrA James Cannon made Apr 7 at 2019 5:33 PM

2019-04-07T17:33:29-04:00

In 2008 the Gonzales, LA Police Department had to pay out on a law suit from an open carry arrest. A fellow named Mark Marchiafava was arrested and later prevailed in the suit.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=375778

Gonzales (LA) settles gun-carrying man’s lawsuit - The Firing Line Forums

Gonzales (LA) settles gun-carrying man’s lawsuit Law and Civil Rights

Response by PO1 Jeffrey Pennala made Apr 8 at 2019 8:13 AM

2019-04-08T08:13:12-04:00

I followed this situation closely, one of the factors that heavily influenced the police in Olmos Park were a the large segment of the local community are newly arrived residents from California and New York. All the failed policies they are fleeing they are trying to impose on their new community. The police chief being being a politician first and foremost pandered to them creating the situation they have now. In the next few years Texas is really going to be challenged by the influx of the liberally minded quasi-socialist which are flocking there in great numbers escaping states like CA, IL and NY. I have the same fears for FL and TN along with any other low tax freedom loving states that they will be flooded with national socialist minded folks (dare I say true NAZI's) as the states and cities they are fleeing crumble around them and they are taxed out of their homes and property and watching the moral decay destroy what is left in the wake of their progressive agenda.

Response by SGT Charles Bartell made May 1 at 2019 12:31 PM

2019-05-01T12:31:47-04:00

IT IS OLMOS PARK. The retarded city counsel belives, As well the truly corrupt Shit tards office.
They belive they has the right to do so. Because they do not want LEGITIMATE to have any guns.
Just like Adof Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong, Fidel Castro just to name a few.
To over ride the U.S. Constitution, And the U.S. Suprem court witch Upheld the the 2nd Amendment.
District of Columba V. Heller, 554 u.s.570 (2008)
The Suptem Court of the United States held that the 2nd Amendment protectsan Indiviuales right to possess a FIREARM.

Response by SPC Donn Sinclair made May 6 at 2019 6:44 AM

2019-05-06T06:44:39-04:00

This subject's a minefield, not just Texas but pretty much everywhere. Let me say this up front, should you choose to OC, that's on you, I'm OK with it. That said, I've never met an OC advocate that didn't have an attitude, as evidenced by the leader of this demonstration refusing to comply with police orders. Second, OC'ing a handgun is one thing, and AR/AK or a tactical shotgun is something else. I don't know your experience, level of training, or mental health. Are you proficient, or a mall ninja who gets off dressing up like Rambo. While I don't endorse the police response the OP lays out, were they responding to calls from the community, or acting on their own. Had the group complied, then taken their case to court, there might've been a better outcome, certainly would've saved some bumps & bruises.

Response by MAJ James Woods made May 12 at 2019 6:29 PM

2019-05-12T18:29:44-04:00

“The police showed up, including Chief Valenciano and ordered Grisham and his crew to the ground. Grisham at least refused.”

Isn’t it at this point we tell people to always do what the cops tell you to do or is that reserved only for Black people?
At least none of them were shot like the guy that was legally armed and informed the officer he was armed during a traffic stop.
Bottomline, take the same advice you’re willing to give others. Privilege only takes you so far. Sucks for him.

Response by LTC James McElreath made May 21 at 2019 11:51 AM

2019-05-21T11:51:36-04:00

It looks like someone promoted a dumb ass to police chief.

Response by LTC James McElreath made May 21 at 2019 12:39 PM

2019-05-21T12:39:35-04:00

Sounds good

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2019 3:26 PM

2019-05-22T15:26:40-04:00

One someone there may have called the police saying that they were doing something wrong, so the police have to respond and verify. Two if an officer tells you to do some thing and you refuse you are in the wrong no matter what. You did not post a link to the video so I am only going off what you wrote.

Response by SSG Elmer Price made May 31 at 2019 10:49 PM

2019-05-31T22:49:43-04:00

Sounds to me like its a little late for more training. HAHA throw them out!!!

Response by CPT Phil Bronner made Jun 2 at 2019 11:27 PM

2019-06-02T23:27:55-04:00

Sounds like the City of Olmos has money to burn....they need to be sued to the maximum extent allowed by law. That Chief needs to be fired, as well as sued for vicarious liability (which would extend up the Chain of Command to the individual(s) in city government who hired, and continue to employ him!)
We have open carry in Oregon. I open carry every day I'm out in public. I also usually shop and dine in establishments that respect the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and basic human rights.
Either the Chief has an agenda...or is ignorant of the very laws he swore an oath to uiphold.

Response by SP5 Dave Westbury made Jun 3 at 2019 11:08 AM

2019-06-03T11:08:46-04:00

Just like any profession, there are a lot of bad cops on the job.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 15 at 2019 7:47 AM

2019-06-15T07:47:01-04:00

The same thing needs to happen to several cities in this country.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T4STq7STbk

Mexican military takes over Acapulco police force

Mexico's military and state police have seized Acapulco's entire police force. The local cops are accused of having links to drug gangs and two top commander...

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made Jun 18 at 2019 3:10 PM

2019-06-18T15:10:26-04:00

When good people make mistakes they should be punished, but after hearing and seeing the video our good First Sergeant is plainly taunting the police officers and they are committing Assault using their mouths to escalate this into a physical confrontation.

These police officers and their chief may have been determined to punish someone when they arrived. Simply checking their I.D.'s would have or should have defused the situation and they could have left the scene and returned to their station.

A licensed open carry individual who happens to be the President of Texas Open Carry and a First Sergeant in the Army should never have been so foolish. He should be setting the good example and not try to make more of it than it is.

His conversation with the Chief of Police was a civil one the day before all this happened and the Chief reiterated several times that his department recognizes the Open Carry Law in Texas. That being said these officers maybe don't know this Grisham from any other citizen in their town.

His taunting and provocative behavior was a veiled threat to these officers and I would have arrested him too! When two or more of his Open Carry Members are taunting those same officers from several different directions I would feel the threat too.

This Chief may have made this whole thing an issue when they went to the park to arrest this group. If you are cooperative with an officer and not a threat generally they won't even cuff you or zip tie your wrists.

They may temporarily take your handgun to remove any perceived or real threat but then return it later after everything is cleared up.

Grisham is an Combat Qualified First Sergeant in his unit and should be above reproach with a whole tool box full of common sense. He should know better than to push a police officer in any situation. Same for the idiot in his group walking around with a rifle.

The frontier has slipped into history and all of you self proclaimed buffalo hunters and Wyatt Earps better pay attention. If a lawman sees you as a potential threat to his person or others he may not give you the chance to pull your I.D. especially if you are hollering and taunting him from across the street. It won't be some twenty paces at high noon when he pulls his weapon first and drops you

Carry concealed Grisham and the rest of you. It gives you the advantage in a gunfight if the other guy doesn't know you are carrying and the police department will patrol with less concern than when you have Matt Dillon's Single Action Colt's Peacemaker on your hip.

Response by SFC Mark Klaers made Jun 21 at 2019 12:56 PM

2019-06-21T12:56:45-04:00

He sure showed this Grisham guy who's the boss! Hey Chief Valenciana, pay close attention to what's going on here in Florida with Broward Sheriff Israel. You might find it useful in your next occupation.

Response by SFC Thomas Howes made Jun 27 at 2019 5:53 PM

2019-06-27T17:53:57-04:00

The chief must have been a democrat and a lib

Response by LTC Ray B. (Ret) made Jun 28 at 2019 6:18 PM

2019-06-28T18:18:11-04:00

What was the purpose of the group exercising open carry right?
A weapon is not a prop to use to thumb your nose at a public official. It is a weapon used to kill someone who threatens your life.
We have courts and political representation that is empowered to confront public officials who refuse to recognize state local and federal laws and rights.

Be smarter, more informed and prepared than your adversaries. Confront them on your own ground or if necessary on neutral ground never give them home field advantage.

Response by LTC Ray B. (Ret) made Jun 28 at 2019 6:24 PM

2019-06-28T18:24:38-04:00

Lots of people go to jail knowing they were right. The issue at hand is now over shadowed by the fact you refused to follow directions of a commissioned law enforcement officer. Being right don’t excuse breaking the Law.

Response by Maj Dale Smith made Jul 10 at 2019 4:50 PM

2019-07-10T16:50:47-04:00

Since this was a civil matter, I would consult with a lawyer, and if you are a member of NRA, you can probably talk to a lawyer for free and possibly get them on your side. I would then find the State Statute that allows open carry (be sure that it includes your ability to carry at an open gathering of people) and take it to the State attorney general. The county should not be able to override State statutes in the same way that States are not allowed to countermand Federal law (10th amendment stuff). Video may show that the police chief had a determination to taze Grisham which would now open him up for civil liability under a number of laws, to include violating one's civil rights and undue use of force. I see civil and criminal cases here.

Response by SFC Regina Boyd made Jul 15 at 2019 3:56 PM

2019-07-15T15:56:11-04:00

This was posted over a year ago?

Response by MCPO Hilary Kunz made Jul 16 at 2019 10:15 AM

2019-07-16T10:15:25-04:00

Is there an update?

Response by CPL Jack Paul made Jul 25 at 2019 10:08 AM

2019-07-25T10:08:15-04:00

WHY does ANYONE actually NEED to carry weapons to a protest rally?? This to me is just ASKING for trouble. GUNS do NOT solve a frigging thing, in war or at home!!

Response by SSG J F Texas made Jul 29 at 2019 11:36 PM

2019-07-29T23:36:55-04:00

Many Texas police chiefs and Sheriffs seem to think they are above the law. They tried and continue to try to find ways to stand against the open carry law just as they did when concealed carry was passed. Some have no problem harassing law abiding Texans at every turn. Rather than maintaining the peace they do stuff like this typically without any repercussions or at least you never heard about them being held accountable. The police probably provoked a couple ppl in the 2A group into doing something so the police felt justified in taking actions so they could claim the group wasn't peaceful to push for the law being repealed.

Response by PO3 Charles Streich made Aug 12 at 2019 8:11 PM

2019-08-12T20:11:57-04:00

Sue All the cops present.

Response by SGT Ronald Blansett made Aug 16 at 2019 12:45 PM

2019-08-16T12:45:22-04:00

I don't know where the chief of Police was the time of the incident. Clearly he was clearly present
but where was his fogged mind? Where had he been before the arrest? All military who served should
let it be know to all the idiots involved. Start with a notice in the local newspaper that all who have served will no longer shop in this biased town. Meeting with the Mayor, council members and others to let them know, it is total unacceptable and will not be tolerated! 1st time, shame on me

Response by LtCol Dennis Ivan made Aug 29 at 2019 6:40 AM

2019-08-29T06:40:14-04:00

Why do you have conflicting feelings. Consider the fact you might is not based on any problem the person open carrying is causing. Open carry was the standard for millennia, either swords, knives early on, or pistols in the "old west". Consider you look at it as a problem not for what it is but by conditioning where for the last 50 years people have been told weapons are the problem. Is open carrying a pistol any different than open carrying a hammer in principle? Both just tools, arguably the hammer can and does kill more people nationally. Yet its the pistol you are uncomfortable with.

To approach it another way, consider the Navy's conduct of freedom of navigation patrols in the South China Sea and elsewhere. We dont particularly need to go there. We could not do it and avoid conflict. We do it because we can and we need to ensure that our rights are maintained and others dont slowly take them away in a grab for power.
The ooen carrying in this town is even more important than the Navy patrols. This exposed a right that the people have that is de facto taken away by power hungry cops that decided that town isnt allowed to have that right according to them. No legislature, no vote, no signature ever saw the light of day that condones what they did. But they did it because no one has challenged them till now.

Response by SSgt Bob Grinder made Aug 30 at 2019 10:37 AM

2019-08-30T10:37:41-04:00

Be interesting to see what the AG does with this case and I'm sure the Officer, and department will be held accountable and at the least will held Civilly Liable if not Criminally.

Response by HN Chris R. made Aug 30 at 2019 1:14 PM

2019-08-30T13:14:47-04:00

Some one should have called the County sheriff as he has jurisdiction over the local police as Sheriff is elected by the people not hired by the city. Sheriff's office serve the people and follow the laws of the US Constitution, not local memos.

Response by SPC Ron Salsbury made Sep 2 at 2019 1:35 AM

2019-09-02T01:35:40-04:00

A peaceful demonstration, legally caring a firearm in an area not marked no weapons permitted, and no probable cause for detainment being expressed, the chief of police illegally tazed this man without provocation and most likely violated his Miranda rights as well. With no video from either on-lookers or police chest camera's, as a Judge, I would look at this issue with serious suspicion, and ask the Chief and officers involved what was their reasoning for such an attack? I would also ask for all cell phones confiscated by law enforcement to view any and all video evidence, or look into the cell phones Cloud account download by any witness' who has captured said illegal action by all involved , making recommendations to the City Council for swift removal from office of all involved.

Response by MAJ Montgomery Granger made Sep 2 at 2019 9:23 AM

2019-09-02T09:23:28-04:00

In any case, the best advice when dealing with police is to follow their instructions completely. Disobeying the instructions of a police officer is a dangerous game, right, wrong or indifferent. One can always exercise one's right to sue at a later date. It is the responsibility of the police officer to later justify their actions. Excessive use of force in this instance may be proven, along with false arrest, but disobeying the instructions of an officer puts one in a compromising position. Remember, if a police officer feels threatened they are authorized to ACT. Whether or not that action is justified will come out later. I agree that the mere act of lawfully open carrying a weapon is NOT justification for action by law enforcement.

Response by SSgt David Marks made Sep 2 at 2019 1:07 PM

2019-09-02T13:07:01-04:00

I open carry all the time and have never had any problems.

Response by Cpl Gabriel F. made Sep 2 at 2019 7:15 PM

2019-09-02T19:15:03-04:00

Political correct dumb response of law enforcement over reacting without probable cause or proper training. Want to be heroes telling another war story from the mean streets of arresting with force law abiding citizens Want to be heroes need to understand signing a contract does not make one a hero. Knowing full well no harm would come to them in any way from the citizens is common sense. Arresting citizens that abide by the law and post no threat is a good way of wasting time while justifying your power trip position. Hours of processing and report preparation instead of going toe to toe with criminals and pro-active law enforcement in the community. Heroin dealers, felonious criminals or would be wrong doers would not carry openly in such a manner while not aiming weapons in the direction of respondents.

Mr. Rene Valenciano has a problem. Perhaps more than one. Take it from a F.O.P. Life Member and commonsense advocate. Lawyer up now.

Response by PO2 Michael Martin made Sep 3 at 2019 12:16 AM

2019-09-03T00:16:42-04:00

My opinion is the officer went on his own because of all the shooting lately , but, I hold the Chief responsible for not giving enough training, testing and everything that has to do with the "CARRY" law. I'm in Cal and we have the open carry but you have to get psychiatrist report, then go for qualifying with hand and rifle. I stand up for what I say and believe. My opinion about guns are, "Guns dont kill people, people kill people . Oh BTW, the officers were wrong and should be reprimanded at least.
Good article, thanks for the up date

Response by CW4 Jim Shelburn made Sep 3 at 2019 1:26 PM

2019-09-03T13:26:44-04:00

I agree.

Response by CPL Joseph Vause made Sep 3 at 2019 7:26 PM

2019-09-03T19:26:18-04:00

That’s how a Police State would start, with disregard for others rights because they questioned their methods!

Response by Cpl Michael Littleton made Sep 4 at 2019 11:08 PM

2019-09-04T23:08:21-04:00

I totally agree that the Chief of police not only overstepped his oath and broke so many laws its hard to count them all here. Now Grisham with all his experience should have never showed up with weapons with all that just happened. A leader has to put feeling aside and be above not to intimidate so such all is lost in the whole message! As a Marine I would have gone to support but unarmed! Why do I have to carry other than see I am here too with my weapons? That’s stupid!

Response by SPC LeBron Spain made Sep 5 at 2019 1:32 AM

2019-09-05T01:32:54-04:00

Sounds like Valenciano thinks he's in Mexico...

Response by SFC James High made Sep 5 at 2019 11:22 AM

2019-09-05T11:22:56-04:00

Well it sounds to me that Grisham and "Crew" called on "Worse" by knowingly doing something that had already been recognized by them as something wrong and needing to be righted, however, they did not need to get themselves personally involved with the Police Chief or any of his Officers. In today's climate it should be common sense not to open carry while at a protest, let's look at the "Spirit of the Law" and not the "Letter of the Law"!!!!!!!!!

Response by SFC Larry Wheeler made Sep 5 at 2019 7:29 PM

2019-09-05T19:29:20-04:00

As patriots and law abiding citizens, we need to plan a National day of carry. Legal and peaceful, but in EVERY state. At every capitol. The powers that be need to see that we will NOT be cowed, we will not be silenced and we will never give up our second amendment rights!

Response by CW2 Jalistair B made Sep 6 at 2019 9:58 PM

2019-09-06T21:58:41-04:00

First of all, there should be no conflicting on this. The Sheriff is wrong and likely has a massive law suit headed his way. That being said a few things worth noting here. First and foremost, this took place in the State of Texas, the new battleground where liberal Californians and others are moving to in hopes of turning the largest red population center in the United States blue. Once that happens, and it will eventually, there will never be another republican president. Secondly, it is worth nothing that this took place in San Antonio which like most large cities is where liberals like to congregate because they feel their is safety for their cause in large mob rule. Lastly, this should be a wake up call to patriotic Americans that our freedoms are under attack. Sadly, we will sleep right through it until we have no freedom left.

Response by SSG William Wall made Sep 7 at 2019 6:12 PM

2019-09-07T18:12:24-04:00

Find an attorney with a good working knowledge of USC Sec.1983.

Response by LTC Ken Connolly made Sep 8 at 2019 6:28 PM

2019-09-08T18:28:56-04:00

The narrative seems to start in the middle concerning the altercation w/ the police.

Response by SSgt Clare May made Sep 9 at 2019 12:15 AM

2019-09-09T00:15:46-04:00

First off... I wasn't there. Quarterbacking isn't a conservative value tool in the tool chest after the cards were played. Whatever the events were leading up to "tazing" need to be scrutinized very...very heavily. There damn better be a video and audio recording of the entire event....As a "FORMER" Chief of Police(New Mexico...not Texas) first off (IN MY HUMBLE OPINION!) I have other lower ranking officers who have been trained in use of force and the deployment of less than lethal force on cooperative and non cooperative subjects...Failure to use them is a failure of leadership. If there was no crime and advance notice was given of a lawful action by lawful citizens...why in the &^%* am I standing there with a tazer using it on my citizens I swore to protect? Peacekeeping and crowd control mean just that... was there violence before the tazing? if yes what level of violence? I only see an uncooperative person, refusing to cede to an unlawful order or an improper direction given by a person who can give orders but the order giver should have recognized the order given was not in fact legitimate... IN MY HUMBLE OPINION...again... I say... gather the Chief in the courtroom, impanel a jury of peers, Git a rope...and upon conviction... then... use the rope.

Response by CWO4 Miles Weaver made Sep 10 at 2019 7:22 PM

2019-09-10T19:22:39-04:00

First of all, this was one year ago but I am not going to respond to the above situation since there are no supporting facts. I have no reason to suspect that SSgt Leake (former, I assume, after seeing his profile photo) is not telling the truth but there is no attempt to present the other side. I am a police officer and know there is almost always "another side". If someone wants to accurately post that, then I would consider offering an opinion as to whether the officers screwed up -- and, like everyone else, we sometimes do make mistakes.

Response by CWO4 Miles Weaver made Sep 10 at 2019 7:30 PM

2019-09-10T19:30:13-04:00

I just checked online and, at the time of the incident above, Olmos Park had an ordinance banning the carry of loaded weapons on city streets. The ordinance was later rescinded but at the time of this incident, it was in full effect and the "victims" were in violation of that law. Peacefully protest but don't carry loaded weapons and expect law enforcement officers to not respond.

Response by PO2 Greg Behnke made Sep 11 at 2019 5:04 PM

2019-09-11T17:04:07-04:00

I believe the SCOTUS has held that LEO's are not required to be 100% legally correct in upholding the law. If it takes an attorney many years of study, and passing a grueling BAR exam to practice law, is it reasonable to expect an LEO with 6 months of training, that by necessity must also include various other sundry aspects of law enforcement, to be fully knowledgeable of the law as well? So the arrest is probably defensible. How the DA proceeds with the case from that point forward is another matter entirely.

Response by MAJ Hugh Blanchard made Oct 10 at 2019 9:24 PM

2019-10-10T21:24:01-04:00

This could have ended badly. There comes a point where you submit to the unlawfully-applied legal authority and then proceed to argue the matter further in court. You don't make it an ego contest with a law enforcement officer, even if that police officer is entirely in the wrong. If you're not on post, then yes, you are required to submit to local law enforcement authorities.

Response by SGT David Nicholas made Oct 11 at 2019 11:16 AM

2019-10-11T11:16:22-04:00

Wonder why the media never carried this story? This officer should be indicted for violating his oath, Texas Law, and their civil rights!

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Oct 11 at 2019 4:39 PM

2019-10-11T16:39:47-04:00

I guess my thoughts are, two wrongs do not make a right...even if three lefts do.

For the record, the three lefts portions was only to add humor to something that is dearly lacking in anything funny.

Should we defend our rights, and the rights of others? Yes. Should we push the envelope until we are lying on the ground bleeding? Only in the most extreme cases and this is NOT an example of one.

Should law enforcement, and especial anyone in a leadership position within any department, office or bureau, know the letter of the law and know when restraint is not only wise, but needed? Yes.

Law enforcement officers need to be able to ensure they are safe in the performance of their jobs. If you are armed and failing to obey their commands, bad things are probably going to happen to you...and it will be on you in part, at the very least.

God bless the men and women who put on a uniform to protect We the People, regardless of the color of the uniform.

Response by MAJ David DeMassey made Oct 16 at 2019 5:27 PM

2019-10-16T17:27:57-04:00

I hope Grisham sues the Chief personally for assault with intent to injure, perhaps felony assault, and also sues the City, along with any other officer that inflicted injury to Grisham. Unfortunately, many law enforcement officers feel they have the right to just about anything without oversight. I have seen too many police and Special Agents abuse their position, escalate the threat and use of force during an arrest. Any protest of arrest can lead to being violently thrown to the ground and a beating by several officers, just watch an episode of "Cops" which is heavily edited in favor of the cops.
I live in El Paso, TX, and after the recent massacre at the Walmart, the cops here would shoot first, empty several clips, say I was pointing a gun at them, and turn off their body cams.

Response by SGT Matthew Brodycz made Oct 31 at 2019 5:26 AM

2019-10-31T05:26:03-04:00

Normally when I read stuff like this - I always try to put myself in the place of the officer and try to understand the logic going through their head. The concern, fear, and potential for loss of life normally justifies their actions. In this case - that seems impossible to do. This appears to be a case of designated / elected authority over civil rights. This is a shame, waste of resources, but more importantly - resulted in injuries to the "people" these officers were assigned to 'protect.' Most importantly - it sets a precedent, that if left unchecked, will ultimately result in the loss of yet another chunk of our freedom. I wish you and your family nothing but the best.

Response by Col Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2019 11:39 AM

2019-10-31T11:39:13-04:00

Appears to be way overkill on the part of the PD. Tazing, holding folks at gunpoint, confiscation of cameras and phones. Multiple opportunities to deprive law abiding citizens of 1st and 2nd amendment rights. Sounds like a civil discussion may have been a good way to start. If the OD feared for their own safety, maybe they could have requested a way to secure the long guns and make sure sidearms remained holstered.

Response by LTC Pete Moore made Oct 31 at 2019 3:57 PM

2019-10-31T15:57:18-04:00

The Police Chief broke the law, which means his actions against "CJ" were unlawful. "CJ" please sue them and file a complaint with the DOJ, because you will not change the chief. Chief must think he is above the law, the department will justify their actions due to the Walmart shooting full moon whatever. We were trained not to shoot unless we identified the target or were receiving effective fires, the police have been trained on their version of ROE too. Texas is a "preemption state" meaning municipalities can't create their own laws counter to state law. I would encourage everyone to be cautious with LEO's for their job is difficult and dangerous, but the Chief broke the law, CJ did not, make the chief and his municipality to pay. I hope no one is offended by my commentary, it is certainly your right to be offended but be forewarned I do not care about your offense or how you feel. The law must be followed or the offender must be held accountable.

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Nov 1 at 2019 5:45 PM

2019-11-01T17:45:37-04:00

Stupid cops.
Retired Fed cop, BA in Criminal Justice.

Break them (the cops).

Response by SP5 George Trudeau made Nov 2 at 2019 10:02 AM

2019-11-02T10:02:43-04:00

Fifty years ago, I shot a man dead, because a Woman lied to me and told me, "This Man is Beating on my Children" I had to go into prison, I served my time out, and vowed to never, ever carry another weapon, I have been faithful to that vow, if any man should attack me now, I will use my fist's and defeat him/her. i do not need nor desire a GUN. I am so sick of reading of man's inhumanity to man, when I go to my grave I will go naked, and alone, no guns allowed in Heaven!

Response by SPC Antonio Godinez made Nov 2 at 2019 11:55 AM

2019-11-02T11:55:18-04:00

Well what you goimg to do . Get im a shoot out wit the police . Let take ya to jIl then get out and carry your gun again.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Nov 3 at 2019 3:36 AM

2019-11-03T03:36:25-05:00

I have a CHL, and I live in Texas. I prefer to carry concealed for many reasons however if someone doesn't want to and they legally can that's fine.

Response by SSG Donald H "Don" Bates made Nov 3 at 2019 8:03 PM

2019-11-03T20:03:56-05:00

I cannot believe this police chief acted in that manner. Open carry is legal in Bexar county and the chief knows this, he acted on his own, should be fired.

Response by SP5 George Trudeau made Nov 4 at 2019 1:04 PM

2019-11-04T13:04:34-05:00

The answer here is Simple, Quit carrying around Weapons of War, treat all Men, Women, and Children as Equal's, If I view YOU as my Equal I never need a Weapon, YOU are never a Threat to me! In my time in Vietnam I almost, almost, killed an old man, just tending to his fields, because I was in "Ambush" Position and he entered my field of Vision, and I had control of an M-60 Machine gun, and thousands of rounds of ammo, I chose instead to put on a Tracer bullet show far above his head, I doubt he ever noticed it.....

Response by SrA Nicholas Noe made Nov 4 at 2019 1:46 PM

2019-11-04T13:46:43-05:00

Well, at least he won't ever need money. He won't need money for his campaign or want for anything for the rest of his life. Sue them, collect, and then throw it back in their face.

Response by Maj A. Clark made Nov 4 at 2019 2:41 PM

2019-11-04T14:41:43-05:00

When I finished my first 6 years of active Military duty in the early 80s, I became a PEACE OFFICER here in Alaska. Daily, I reminded myself that I was working for everyone else in my community. Unlike a Knight who was sworn to the Laird of the local castle, my badge and position descended from early American county Sheriff's who stayed up all night and chased down criminals so the other citizens would be freed from those chores. I was not better than everyone else and ALL my fellow citizens had the same power that I did. They were simply paying me to do it , so they could pursue their regular vocations.
I spent 20 years as a Law Dawg, ( while still in the military reserves, as did my Colonial Ancestors) and I always kept my oath. But towards the end of my Peace Officer career, I noticed a radical swing in the types of people who were being hired. Many who would have NEVER passed the old psychological and personality tests, much less have been able to serve in combat boots. Due to years of EEO law suits and political pressure, many unstable or politically motivated power-freaks were sneaking through the hiring process. Eventually these junior Himmlers became hiring managers or supervisors themselves; thus they hired like minded drones or deviants who were also more than happy to stomp on the U.S. and State Constitutions in order to maintain their power positions.

Response by SPC Steven Nihipali made Nov 5 at 2019 10:14 AM

2019-11-05T10:14:33-05:00

I know CJ and supportive of their message. I heard about the protest ans know exactly where this happened. It's sickening that law enforcement in this country can be so stupid, especially with the media coverage that's out here now days. Police chief knew of the protest Bexar Co Sheriffs knew and the community knew. It's not a small thing, especially Olmos Park.

What bothers me is, Bexar Co, being one of the largest in Texas, still doesn't give a shit about lawful carry. San Antonio police chief openly admitted that he doesn't care, he's going to enforce essentially stop and frisk on anyone open carrying in the city. Windcrest PD has banned it. Converse, Schertz also banned. Cibilo is too small to care, but it's in the middle of the 3 already mentioned. PD is making carrying a gun scary instead of normal and advocating against teaching and instructing.

Response by LTJG Daniel Von Hoene made Nov 7 at 2019 10:49 PM

2019-11-07T22:49:18-05:00

It's now 11/7/2019. I couldn't find any update on police chief fired or legal actions against department. I would like FACTS and not more OPINIONS.

Response by SGT Ronald Audas made Nov 10 at 2019 9:17 PM

2019-11-10T21:17:05-05:00

I have a Texas License To Carry permit. My obligation to an approaching police officer is to immediately inform him/her that I have a firearm in my presence.At this time l will be instructed as to what I should do with said firearm.Unless I'm in the commission of a crime,no action will be taken by the police. Other than to ask me not to wave it around. The police at Olmos Park went there with a completely different mindset.I won't rehash what's been said here,but the police went way over the line.For those that think we In Texas still have our horses tied to the rack out front,I have yet to see anyone with a sidearm strapped to his hip.

Response by Cpl Terrance M. Priddy, PhD. made Nov 11 at 2019 7:00 AM

2019-11-11T07:00:39-05:00

I have absolutely no idea what to say, but wow. I am from, born and raised in the great state of Kentucky. We've always been open carry. We have a vast array of wildlife and if not/nearly always NOT, for self defense purposes, but it is rather considered somewhat normal for those of us that own and work our farm land, hunt, among other things, to open carry most everyday. I have 4 children, so the above said, I don't carry on evenings we go to a birthday dinner and things of that nature LOL That said, we or I, may be in an area "an animal" for humanity's sake, needs to be put down on the spot. Many scenarios, but you run up on a snake, other wild animal or are hunting a deer and your non-military and much less accurate friend doesn't make a kill shot and you have to put the deer/other, down quickly and in hopes of saving it "the torture" <- these are just a few common reasons, at least in KY, that KY has ALWAYS been an open carry state and I have not personally ever heard nor read about such an incident as you posted. (around here locally that is, as well in a very short amount of time, anyone in the state/without a felony and or criminal record, may carry concealed with NO permit required) Only my opinion of course, but I do believe I'd make a concerted effort to avoid that "park" and it's ridiculous staff that has obvious mom and dad issues and or got beat up in school and merely using a parks and recreational badge to show some sort of "authority", per se. If many more join in and just don't go, they'd not be able to remain open. All of that said, Karma does have it's ways and it'll come back around, in time. I also agree with MSgt Hoffman, btw - Terrance

Response by PO2 Paul Gerg made Dec 7 at 2019 1:36 PM

2019-12-07T13:36:09-05:00

Have always thought that our fore fathers were simple and to the point with the second amendment. However this same question keeps coming back up in the courts year after year.

Response by CPL John Sutor made Dec 15 at 2019 10:27 AM

2019-12-15T10:27:02-05:00

Even though it is legal, if it was me I would have listen to the officer, then pled my case. Cops are being ambushed, and shot everyday in almost every state. We live in a tumultuous times. I carry concealed an try not to expose my weapon, if confronted by the police I would listen and obey their order.

Response by Sgt Dennis Gray made Dec 17 at 2019 3:31 AM

2019-12-17T03:31:18-05:00

It seems that Olmos Park is in the business of having their police dept sued. A quick Google search of the city name produces not one but several cases of this sort in litigation.

Response by SPC Alexander Bendyna III made Dec 27 at 2019 2:10 PM

2019-12-27T14:10:07-05:00

As a a resident of Central, TX for 10 years now I've seen this behavior from cops concerning open carry (though not this violently). Austin Police Department will detain you for disturbing the peace. Its literally the only thing they've got. They argue that openly carrying a firearm makes the public at large nervous and fear for thier safety. So if you decide to open carry in the Great State of Texas, be mindful of where you do it and the local PD's attitude towards it.

That being said, it is wrong for Police officers to detain citizens who are safely and responsibly exercising thier Constitional Right.

Response by COL Victor Hagan made Dec 31 at 2019 12:39 PM

2019-12-31T12:39:15-05:00

This didn't sound like a non-violent demonstration to bring attention to their cause. The 1SG could have followed the Police Chief's directive and sued the police department and city in federal court for violating his civil rights?

Response by PVT Andy Wilkerson made Feb 19 at 2020 8:33 PM

2020-02-19T20:33:47-05:00

The arresting officer should be arrest and fired from his job and never allowed to be a police officer again. He also needs to serve prison time for hurting Mr. Grisham.

Response by SSG Phillip Grounds made Feb 24 at 2020 5:54 PM

2020-02-24T17:54:43-05:00

Even chiefs can be poorly trained. While working as a police sgt, a call came out for man with a gun walking through a parking lot. Said man was wearing orange and had a long gun. The officers marked in route with sirens blaring. I cancelled them all from the run. It was the first day of deer season. The caller was a follower of PETA. It would have ended badly for my officers. A quick retraining and all was well. The right to bear arms shall not be infringed. This Chief needs to rethink his career choice. Not split on this topic. There is only one way to view this and support our Constitution. Cheers

Response by 1SG Jeffrey Mullett made Mar 5 at 2020 4:27 PM

2020-03-05T16:27:52-05:00

What people don't understand is; The Federal Government can pass laws. The states are required to observe those laws, but the state can modify them. The State can pass laws, but the County can modify, or choose NOT to observe them. The County can pass laws, but the City can modify them or choose not to comply.
If Mr Grisham (1SG) spoke to the Chief, but was not warned that the City didn't observe open carry laws, then the Chief cannot, by rights, come in and detain or prosecute individuals for observing State law.
In my opinion, since the Chief didn't warn Mr (1SG) Grisham of his interpretation, the Chief is completely in the wrong here. You should speak with the State AG.

Response by SGT Doug Blanchard made Mar 6 at 2020 3:47 PM

2020-03-06T15:47:05-05:00

There was a report on national news about this police department and their illegal antics. The news report showed where they were arresting citizens for open carrying coming out of stores.
They even tried to arrest the reporter and camera operator for filming it all. A Texas State Trooper pulled up on the scene when the local police were harassing the reporter and camera operator. The local police were arrested by the state trooper and it was shown on the news.
This is clearly a case of local police violating citizens rights to open carry, probably because they do not believe in following state laws or they don't think private citizens should own firearms.
Just like here in Florida where we have the right to open carry when fishing from shore, a dock, a pier or a boat. Along with open carry when camping. Along with on our property.
There have been four county sheriff's that have stated that they will arrest anyone that they see open carrying in any of these situations, they will also uphold any illegal laws passed by the Fed or the state to confiscate firearms from private citizens. They have openly stated that civilians do not need to own firearms, period.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2020 8:36 PM

2020-03-08T20:36:29-04:00

If we destroy the 2nd amendment, it sets the precedent to remove or restrict all other amendments. Open carry shod be allowed everywhere. I believe that legally carried weapons are a deterrent against crime.

Response by CMSgt Donald ONeill made Mar 8 at 2020 10:03 PM

2020-03-08T22:03:06-04:00

This is a double edge sword first refusing and officer commands is trouble . If it was a illegal arrest you have to fight in court . I am a big believer in the second amendment unfortunately many states vary from state to state . This is why I believe SCOTUS has to make a ruling that will cover everyone's 2nd amendment rights regardless of what state you are in .

Response by PO1 Glenn Cooper made Mar 8 at 2020 10:33 PM

2020-03-08T22:33:16-04:00

https://youtu.be/5zfI74YOOZw

Copy of Olmos Park,Tx.-RAW FOOTAGE CJ GRISHAM ARREST

Raw footage from incident at Olmos Park Tx-includes CJ Grisham being tazed by Chief Valenciano. And Jim being slammed to the ground by Det Ruiz and Chief Val...

Response by Sgt James Gross made Mar 9 at 2020 1:26 AM

2020-03-09T01:26:28-04:00

Sounds like he was abusing his authority, if that’s the case then I would go to the Attorney General with it.

Response by SN William Golden made Mar 9 at 2020 8:25 AM

2020-03-09T08:25:02-04:00

Sadly the seeds of Socialism planted during the 60's are coming to full maturity. If you look at how the country has changed and the political atmosphere is leaning to the left you will see that Judges, Law Enforcement people, Lawyers are all attacking our legal rights. We were warned about this in 1960 that this country would come to embrace Socialism.

Response by SFC Terry Bryant made Mar 9 at 2020 10:32 AM

2020-03-09T10:32:46-04:00

American citizens rights being infringed upon by a bunch of liberal police officers. Most police embrace the 2nd amendment. Especially considering many police have been saved by legal gun toting citizens. The Chief should be arrested for infringement of thier 2nd amendment rights. The police officers at a minimum should be fired.

Response by SGT Cynthia Douglas Ybarra made Mar 9 at 2020 11:18 AM

2020-03-09T11:18:33-04:00

Wow. Shouldnt he have complied with the officers orders?

Response by Sgt John Meister made Mar 10 at 2020 6:02 PM

2020-03-10T18:02:02-04:00

First off, I am for Constitutional carry. Open carry or concealed should not be illegal. It works where it is used.

The problem with this is this, if a police officer properly identifies himself and gives you an order, that is not the time to have a Constitutional discussion. You need to comply with the officers instructions and go with him peacefully. Keep your mouth shut and comply, don’t argue. You can argue the case in court later where there are cool heads and you have legal council. That officer is primarily concerned with his own safety and that of his fellow officers. This is how people get taxed and sometimes shot.

I am not a police officer and not a lawyer, I just have a little experience with this. Don’t argue on the streets, argue in court.

Response by AB Blake Bowers made Mar 11 at 2020 3:42 AM

2020-03-11T03:42:38-04:00

This is over 2 years ago now. The Chief is still Chief. I am very much a proponent of open carry in the state of TX, and very opposed to those who fancy themselves as "constitutional Auditors" in order to get a few hits on their youtube channel. Grow up. If you must do so, then do what the cops say, and then take action in the courts. Don't cry that you were mistreated.

Response by SGT Frederick S. Mitchell made Mar 11 at 2020 12:55 PM

2020-03-11T12:55:54-04:00

USCCA and the NRA may be able to help. This sounds like s wet dream for a good lawyer or a cadre of good lawyers! I have heard that Trump wants to make a Federal license for concealed and open carry which I believe that we already have the right to do. State laws still need to follow the Constitution. If you have the time and money, a big lawsuit seems in order. Good luck and God bless!! We need to keep our rights.

Response by MSgt Wayne Morris made Mar 11 at 2020 5:58 PM

2020-03-11T17:58:21-04:00

Decades ago San Antonio and Bexar county was highly conservative due to the large military population. This has changed over the years and SA has become a bastion of liberal, Democratic rule and like Houston (which suffers the same) the cops owe their high salaries and annual pay raises to the Mayor and his cronies and dance to what ever tune is directed from City Hall.
In cases such as this, it is better to comply even if in the right and have your day in court and not the ER.

Response by CPO Lenny Orth made Mar 12 at 2020 1:30 PM

2020-03-12T13:30:03-04:00

When a police Officer directs you to get on the ground, get your pampered, entitled ass on the ground. My guess is that dumbass Grisham was arrested, for resisting arrest and not open carrying in Texas. That ignorant dumbass went looking for a fight and is lucky he still has his teeth.
If the police officer steps over the line, it's better to contest it later, at the police station while you haven't been arrested for being a dumbass and still have all your teeth.
It's a shame the military can't come up with a test of some sort that screens out wannabe and actual domestic terrorists.

Response by SSG William Bruno made Mar 14 at 2020 10:24 AM

2020-03-14T10:24:16-04:00

Clearly, the police overstepped their boundaries.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2020 3:13 AM

2020-03-15T03:13:10-04:00

I mean.. this person is lucky he’s of a low melanin account and wasn’t killed during this process. But if you think this is poor inexcusable treatment, you’re gonna lose it when someone explains that certain communities in America face far worse treatment, relatively consistently.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2020 4:35 PM

2020-03-15T16:35:36-04:00

So wait. A group of armed guns rights activist disobeyed police orders, while protesting that very police department... in Texas!!! And they didn’t get shot?

I had no idea you could do that.

Response by SSG Marshall Paul made Mar 15 at 2020 8:42 PM

2020-03-15T20:42:40-04:00

well, not getting on the ground was dumb. Texas. Hello.

Response by MSG Allan Davis made Mar 16 at 2020 1:19 AM

2020-03-16T01:19:01-04:00

Bexar co SO and SA PD are hardcore liberal big police power anti firearm. PD is being investigated by the Texas Rangers (again) for cracking a guys skull while arresting him for carrying a long gun. There is a video he had it sling on his back. Long gun carry in TX is completely lawful and always has been. The officers in this case were again out of line. SAPD is rampant with crooked cops and police brutality. I’m not talking shit look at the public records. The courts have even had to step in to make them turn records over to people who are trying to file lawsuits. San Antonio wants to be San Diego. Look up all the articles for yourselves.

Response by SGT Herbert Bollum made Apr 8 at 2020 11:46 AM

2020-04-08T11:46:09-04:00

CO is also open carry except for places like Denver where they do not allow open carry unless in uniform (i.e. security officers) and I also have concealed carry in CO which comes in handy in case a jacket covers the view. There are a lot of power hungry officers out there.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2020 12:28 PM

2020-04-16T12:28:29-04:00

Are we a nation of laws, or not? Are law enforcement officers going to be allowed to defy the legislature (law makers) and make up their own laws, or not? Are we overdue for a revolution, or not? Just asking, 'cause I was really kinda curious.

Response by 1SG Gary Ridge made Apr 19 at 2020 7:58 AM

2020-04-19T07:58:22-04:00

Apparently this Chief is ignorant of the US Constitution and even sadder is the fact it appears that he doesn't understand the Texas Constitution. Either he's jealous of this Individual successes or apparently a Liberal (DumocRAT), a Closet Lib (Rhino), or just a Person who doesn't respect the Rights of others. Bottom line, I'm sure there is Witnesses, Photo's, and Evidence that would prove potential Police Brutality I would turn it over to the Texas AG and demand a DOJ Investigation..

Response by PFC Rick Schuetz made Apr 19 at 2020 11:14 PM

2020-04-19T23:14:24-04:00

Sounds like the Chief needs some education on the Constitution he swore to defend.

Response by CW4 Bernard B. made May 16 at 2020 10:13 AM

2020-05-16T10:13:08-04:00

This is a case of “could” versus “should.” Could one legally open carry a firearm to a protest, but should one carry an open firearm to a peaceful protest? I recommend you separate your 1A and 2A rights, especially while attending a protest. The exercise of rights comes with responsibility. One can say anything one likes, but that does not absolve one of responsibility for those words. One can exercise the right to keep and bear arms, but that does not absolve one of the responsibility for proper use and firearms safety or what happens to the bullet once it leaves the barrel. When people attend civil protest and elect to carry an open or concealed firearm, they are intentionally adding to an already potentially volatile situation. So, ask yourself, could I do this action? Should I do this action?
Full disclosure: lifetime NRA member, CCW holder, firearms enthusiast, and advocate for doing things the smart way over the hard way.

Response by SGT Jon Hunter made May 16 at 2020 10:40 AM

2020-05-16T10:40:53-04:00

Conflicted? At what point are you unsure "what to make of all this"? The Supreme Court has been clear on the topic of resisting an illegal arrest. You have the right to do what is necessary to avoid a seizure of your person by any detaining authority who is illegally detaining you. It doesn't leave you room to assault a police officer who is illegally arresting you. It means you're permitted to escape, flee, avoid by what means necessary an illegal arrest. The guy refused to comply with a police order and the officer had no probable cause to detain anyone.

Response by SPC Bryan Gustafson made May 16 at 2020 11:33 AM

2020-05-16T11:33:23-04:00

There are obviously many specific facts surrounding this whole event I am unaware of and I am not suggesting that Grisham was doing anything that would constitute a violationof law. However, as a retired law enforcement officer of 25 years, I consider it highly inadvisable to be noncompliant with an officer who is effecting an arrest (even IF you believe the arrest to be unlawful), as more often than not, it just doesn't end well. Instead of failing to comply with what the officer was directing him to do, he should have complied and sorted it all out later. An arrestee does not have to be aware of an officer's probable cause for the arrest in order for an arrest to be lawful. Of course there are civil remedies available for an unlawful arrest.

Response by SPC John Schembari made May 16 at 2020 3:26 PM

2020-05-16T15:26:30-04:00

open carry is just that! no one drew their weapon except the arresting officer! protesting in America is a right we all fight for even when some don't believe in the cause. the officer is clearly in the wrong and should lose his job over it. you can rob a bank and get better treatment these days

Response by Col James Cooke made May 16 at 2020 7:58 PM

2020-05-16T19:58:50-04:00

Jeff, the short answer is that Sgt Grisham crossed the line. His refusal to chew dirt put him on the wrong side of the argument. The Chief is a sworn, commissioned law officer in Olmos Park. Sounds like the Chief's demand was a power play - and the Chief has the power, and the badge and the authority. My trainer told us in no uncertain terms whenever one confronts a law officer, do whatever they ask, however inappropriate, inconvenient or illogical. Do it first and ask questions later. And I've found the same advice from other sources, heavily stressed and addressed to concealed-carry folks and open-carry folks. My TI was not only a good GI, he was a wise man. And he told us, "Choose your battles. Carefully." CJ did not choose wisely.

Response by SFC Terrence Griffin made May 16 at 2020 8:43 PM

2020-05-16T20:43:17-04:00

Yeh shit is getting out of hand now right....got scraped up huh.well at least he lived to tell the story.

Response by CPL Joseph Elinger made May 18 at 2020 7:02 AM

2020-05-18T07:02:44-04:00

Sue The Dept, & The Officer in Question.
Fire The Chief or prosecute & demote him.

Response by SPC Tim Abell made May 19 at 2020 12:08 PM

2020-05-19T12:08:42-04:00

The Police were wrong , they violated all of those who were arrested.
If Government expects citizens to obey the law then they should be bound by those laws and especially our constitution and no one including police and leadership should be above the law.

Response by CW3 Bill Wynne made May 20 at 2020 4:33 PM

2020-05-20T16:33:57-04:00

TOTALLY RIDICULOUS!! "TO PROTECT AND SERVE" IS A JOKE.

Response by Bill Hunt made May 20 at 2020 5:42 PM

2020-05-20T17:42:44-04:00

Having lived and worked in Texas and also under the police chief involved in this story zi have to say it comes as no surprise he is and was a two bit half wit mentally handicapped reject. He has no business wearing a badge let alone a gun unless it is filled with water. What a loser

Response by PFC Craig Karshner made May 21 at 2020 12:58 PM

2020-05-21T12:58:38-04:00

We have to protect our constitution and support those who stand for it. As soldiers we put our lives out there for our freedoms even citizens who think differently. We are not socialism can't be with our Constitution. What we have is another person who defying the Constitution in charge. We must stand together and vote these people out. We served for this freedom let's get to work. By the way i think he was a power hungry public servant who didn't want to be told what was right and totally legal.

Response by PVT P made May 21 at 2020 2:58 PM

2020-05-21T14:58:58-04:00

*Currently eating popcorn as I read the comments thread.
Juicy. Passionate.
It's almost better than Days of Our Lives.
Hooah.

Response by SFC David S made May 21 at 2020 10:06 PM

2020-05-21T22:06:26-04:00

I am retired and live in WA which is so confusing with all the sanctuary cities and so on, I do like to open carry, but I only do so going to and from a range or if I am in the mountains. I don't have a problem with the police, I understand their confusion, the politicians are making it hard for officers to know what the latest policy is...and it seems like each state is becoming it's own country, laws change from border to border. as far as the crap going on in texas or I call it texico..., make em pay !!!

Response by MSgt Michael Madden made May 22 at 2020 10:40 AM

2020-05-22T10:40:03-04:00

Maybe the group was too close together. Since the Covid virus the powers that be do not want us to group together.

Response by PFC Michael Korach made May 23 at 2020 1:27 PM

2020-05-23T13:27:47-04:00

There are a number of ways of looking at this event and others. The officer has no way of knowing if the person is legal to carry any weapon until they Identify the person. most of these groups simply refuse to assist law enforcement officers, they prefer to make their points no matter what the officer's concerns are. Had all the parties stopped let the officer do what they needed to do for officer safety and the safety of the citizens of the community than the matter would have ended differently. Most criminals are not the smartest people they will figure out that as long as these groups want the police to take the approach of don't respond to open carry calls don't ask for identification, that the criminal can open carry since the police won't check. These laws should have been written so that police could stop I.D. if needed and move on, at the same time law-abiding citizens can open carry. Part of the problem is that most average people who could open carry just don't feel the need to, so now small numbers of open carry advocates go around the states and look to confront police with the open carry, the go into communities where they do not live, and police don't know them; this is what happens. I have carried a firearm all of my adult life if I were confronted by police officers I would allow them to do what they need to do in order for the contact to end quickly and safely for all parties. 1. stop for officers answer officers questions 2. provide Identification. those two actions avoid all the drama

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2020 11:33 AM

2020-05-24T11:33:15-04:00

Welcome to our world....sucks doesn't it? Imagine this happening to you and people that look like you routinely.... *sighs*

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2020 1:38 PM

2020-05-24T13:38:23-04:00

Police officers now are only looking after their pension. . They care about safety when it is theirs, and do what they are told. When you can be fired at will and lose your pension this is what happens. It all falls down to "Whose in charge".

Response by PO2 Harold Hoffman made May 24 at 2020 2:22 PM

2020-05-24T14:22:43-04:00

I AM ALL FOR OPEN CARRY IF YOU WISH TO. BUT WE MUST FACE THE FACT THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN AREAS THAT ARE RUN BY LEFTY WACKO'S! LEFTY WACK'S TEND TO HIRE LEFTY WACKO'S TO ENFORCE THEIR VIEW OF THE LAW!! SO I PERSONALLY AM NOT GOING TO GO INTO THE LION'S DEN AND PLAY THE GAME THEIR WAY! IT WILL DO YOU NO GOOD TO GO IN TO THEIR TERRITORY AND GET THE CRAP KICKED OUT OF YOU JUST TO TRY TO PROVE A POINT!
LET THE NAGR OR THE NRA GO IN AND FIGHT THAT FIGHT! I PREFER TO CARRY CONCEALED. I JUST THINK THAT THERE IS NO REASON TO MAKE YOURSELF A TARGET! I HAVE SEEN IT TOO MANY TIMES FIRST HAND! GUYS HAVE BEEN TAKEN DOWN AND ARRESTED, AND I WAS NEVER BOTHERED BECAUSE I DID NOT OPEN CARRY. AND I AM NOT GOING TO, (in the moment0 TAKE ON 50 BULLIES WITH BADGES IN A SITUATION THAT I CANNOT WIN!

Response by A1C Lisa Casserly made May 24 at 2020 10:00 PM

2020-05-24T22:00:27-04:00

This is something we are going to see more and more now; I remember being in high school, and our social studies teacher was telling us how he'd seen in his lifetime, the USA inching towards socialism/communism, which was Public Enemy #1. And, I'm grateful that he's now dead; so he has not seen what the USA has come to. Since my enlistment in 1984, I barely recognize the country that I swore to protect and defend. It seems that the enemies we face are more and more becoming our own elected officials. And as people become more and more afraid to stand up, more and more power will be taken by those officials and law enforcement personnel. Its a scary time to be a freedom-loving person.

Response by SMSgt Bob Wilson made May 25 at 2020 12:42 AM

2020-05-25T00:42:59-04:00

Not to take sides, but they better be glad the Cop tazed them. Other area Cops would have shot them them. I'm sure their is the rest of the story. Based on the above facts I see the Cops did not have just cause.

Response by SPC Tim Groody made May 26 at 2020 9:53 AM

2020-05-26T09:53:19-04:00

I don’t think cops like it when they give an order, such as Get on the ground and the person doesn’t obey.
Usually from there things really go to heck.

Response by Sgt Ed Allen made May 26 at 2020 3:56 PM

2020-05-26T15:56:59-04:00

This is what happens when petty tyrants gain power. This is also the definition of why the 2nd Amendment was listed in the US Constitution. As a reminder, the freedoms that are enumerated in the US Constitution are not granted or given to us by the US Constitution but, rather, by God almighty. The US Constitution simply states that our rights will be protected as a matter of law.

Having said that, this police chief should not only be fired, but should be brought before the court and sentenced for the violation of the rights of the citizens and held accountable for the injuries that she, and her underlings, caused. As should her underlings!

Much as you, as an American Service Member, are held accountable for your actions. If you were in combat and were given an illegal order, you would be guilty of a crime if you obeyed that order. So to these "police officers".

I look forward to hearing that Olmos Park Police Chief, Rene Valenciano (Sworn officer of the law) and her staff are fired and sent to prison or have to pay heavy civil penalties for violating their oath of office and the law.

Response by PO1 Robert George made May 27 at 2020 10:25 PM

2020-05-27T22:25:03-04:00

Some municipalities require a permit to stage a protest/demonstration. That would be my 1st question. The next would be ordnances/rules as concerns the beer virus. Beyond that don't see how the officers' actions are justified.

Response by Cpl Alex Moore made May 29 at 2020 12:46 PM

2020-05-29T12:46:15-04:00

To play devil's advocate a bit here, yes they were openly carrying and exercising their rights and they should not have been arrested. That leads to the problem. At the point where the police arrived and told them to lay on the ground, not obeying that order is resisting arrest, in pretty much all 50 states. Grisham was taken for precisely that. I haven't looked up the arrest record but it is for something like resisting arrest or something similar. This is not uncommon and I, personally, have never understood why people should be more outraged when they are open carrying than when a black man is walking down the street and the same thing occurs. Do I agree with the arrest? No. Do I understand the tazing? Yes, Grisham was resisting arrest and armed, from the police point of view. Do I think he should have been arrested? No. Always remember to look at the other side and try to see a different perspective.

Response by Sgt Tom Davis made Jun 2 at 2020 2:57 PM

2020-06-02T14:57:46-04:00

I believe in constitutional carry, some have taken it to an extreme that I believe is detrimental to the cause. I have never felt the need to carry an AR-15 to the park, for any reason. It is annoying to me to see some joker with body armor and an AR, looking like he is ready to assault a beachhead walking around public places. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. The flip side to this is that many LEOs don't actually know the law that they are required to enforce. Definitions of what a loaded gun is vary from state to state. A public demonstration for open carry if the kind of thing I avoid, because along with the responsible firearm owners making a statement about an important constitutional right, you have all the idiots who watched Sniper or Lone Survivor one too many times and picked up their kit at Cabela's last weekend and don't really have a clue what is going on except that they need a couple selfies of themselves looking like Rambo in the city park.

If the man was unlawfully arrested, he should receive compensation from the agency that violated his rights. And the officers should be held accountable for their actions. On the other side of that, if you as a citizen are intent on challenging something that is on the fringe of what is acceptable in society, you have to be prepared for the repercussions of that act. I have owned guns all my life and have been pulled aside and questioned because I was carrying, I have been pulled over with firearms visible in the car. I have been questioned because something happened on the other side of town. I complied with the officers requests and always left the scene without being arrested or tazed or thrown on the ground. For it to escalate to a tazer and grappling, there has to be more to the story. I would guess that the officer started to detain or arrest him and he started to tell the officer why he couldn't. As a rule, it will always be easier and quicker to comply and sort it out later. As far as the "training mock up", for the officer, it is a matter of life or death. If it looks like a real gun, it should be treated like a real gun. Thinking it was a toy or a fake is just as bad as thinking it was unloaded.

Response by SGT Philip Klein made Jun 7 at 2020 4:46 PM

2020-06-07T16:46:42-04:00

Lawsuits

Response by Sgt Frank Staples made Jun 16 at 2020 1:25 PM

2020-06-16T13:25:33-04:00

There is a definite problem in this country with cops who are belligerent and arrogant. Not understanding the law should be grounds for being let go. I'm surprised this kind of crap goes on in Texas.

Response by SPC Floyd Hall made Jul 3 at 2020 12:35 PM

2020-07-03T12:35:05-04:00

The police have become out of control everywhere in Our country. I did not go to combat to support an American version of nazi justice. Its past time to reel them in and make them subject to the same laws citizens are required to follow.

Response by MSG Johnathan Mathes made Jul 19 at 2020 11:07 PM

2020-07-19T23:07:04-04:00

I'm going to throw this out there for what it was worth. Who really won with this stunt? I seem to remember having to be an example for the community. Soldiers look up to 1SGS for the most part. Here we have two hard heads who got stuck in a pissing contest, both were wrong in different ways.
there are a couple of things to keep in mind with this kind of stuff. DID you not see the arrest here in Odessa a couple of weeks ago when guys were protesting outside an establishment? Were you not warned that would happen? Were you not around when folks were killed here in Odessa last year with an AR15? how about the guy on a killing spree in El Paso? You know folks are super squirrely right now .... then you pull this kind of stunt..?there is the right way to do things and a wrong way.. I believe in the 2nd .. I believe I have the right to carry .. there is a reason you have to get licensed to carry here in TXs.. its not to flaunt.. but to be able to exercise your rights without being obtuse.. I don't like their actions carried out against the 1SG, but at the same time, he openly carried the challenge to an extreme to make a point, knowing this might be the outcome. this is still America .. you still have certain rights. One thing you always do as a Texas permitted gun owner is complying with police... Period.. you can get an attorney later and then work it in court.. sorry your heart might have been in the right place but your brain disengaged at a crucial moment.. sorry

Response by SFC William Harrison made Jul 30 at 2020 11:33 AM

2020-07-30T11:33:45-04:00

Provided no one did anything illegal in doing so (brandishing, threatening, unauthorized area etc). If they were as the article states legally assembling then the Police clearly violated the civil liberty protection of unlawful search and seizure. This will play out in the courts and will serve as bench mark in the use of authority as it regards the 2nd Amendment and state/local gun laws

Response by Capt Brian Young made Jul 30 at 2020 5:39 PM

2020-07-30T17:39:15-04:00

Well within their rights. No need to have an open carry law if law enforcement don't recognize it. Unlawful arrest for the open carry. But the resisting arrest is another issue.

Response by CWO3 James Antoine made Jul 31 at 2020 1:02 AM

2020-07-31T01:02:59-04:00

People in this country had better wake up! Our CONSTITUTION is UNDER ATTACK nation wide! If President Donald J Trump Lise’s the Election in November, Americans better be prepared for the worst of the worst because it is coming! Texas is just a trickle of what will come!

Response by SSG Watis Ekthuvapranee made Jul 31 at 2020 11:17 AM

2020-07-31T11:17:18-04:00

The problem with law enforcement is the appearance of authority, which many mistaken himself as a law. It doesn't help when there is little or lack of training. And worse yet, the training is mainly about force to obey the law or facing force rather than enforcing. Enforcing the law doesn't mean using any kind of force alone, but to avoid using force. To do so, the enforcer must coaxing, not coercing, the agitator to subside, not submit. ... I've seen many situation where the law enforcement fails to read the situation and understand the agitator wants.

Case and point, I've seen a veteran just had his a appendix removed and probably addicted to pain killer also lashed out at the pharmacist at the VA clinic. The pharmacist called the VA police. The polices arrived and do exactly as the training taught them to do; keep suspect seated or on the ground, remain out of reach but close enough to tackle suspect, etc. Those who have has appendix removed before or having shrapnel or bullet in their gut before know until the wound is completely heal sitting on a waiting chair hurt like hell. Anyway, the suspect tried to obey, but because of the pain he could not sit very long. The suspect got up and moved. He was told to sit again. After about the forth time he got up he was arrested hand cuffed behind his back and was taken to police station.

The officers failed to:
1. recognize that the suspect had been obeying their order
2. sitting caused pain on his hip, he cannot sit on a waiting chair for long
3. the officer themselves were the instigator of the situation
4. know human nature, know yourself, know your enemy.

The lessen learnt from these kind of events and what is happening to George Floyd and other like him is that it might not be the case that the police is racist (I am sure that there are), but their training on how to deal with suspect is too rigid, too cut and dried whereas the real world situation is far more fluid than their training taught them. And don't get me starting on US check point in Iraq and the ROE for approaching vehicle, I don't have answer to that either.

Response by Sgt Charles Johnson Jr. made Jul 31 at 2020 6:31 PM

2020-07-31T18:31:40-04:00

Y'all should've researched this before posting. There was a city ordinance which which did not allow for open carry of loaded weapons within the city limits except for law enforcement officers. The ordinance was repealed after these incidences but the LE officers were following their oaths AND upholding the laws of their city...

Response by SCPO Ralph Hensley made Jul 31 at 2020 10:23 PM

2020-07-31T22:23:53-04:00

It stuns me that a retired career Soldier would so stupidly antagonize those officers who are sworn to protect and serve. Sounds like an opportunity to make a name during a campaign for public office.

Response by SPC Tim Mitcham made Aug 1 at 2020 6:46 PM

2020-08-01T18:46:37-04:00

This is going to sound strange, but I don't care at all about open carry! I am a Life Member of the NRA. I DO support a citizens rights to open carry, I will just never do it myself. To me, an open carry citizen is likely the first target in a sideways situation! If I was a criminal I would shoot whoever was open carry, or at least take their gun b4 the excitement started. Personally, I prefer concealed, for the element of surprise OR the choice of inaction if that is the safer option. Open carry citizens will be included willingly or unwillingly. Open carry citizen almost needs to know what going on b4 it happens to keep from losing gun of his life. NOW, as I said, I FIRMLY SUPPORT rights to open carry for law abiding citizens. Criminals carry concealed whether we like it or not and whether it's legal or not, so good citizens should legally be allowed that privilege. Any LE Officer that does not respect a person's 2nd Amendment rights has failed in his job/duties and should be terminated! He can be punished less severely for other infractions, but Constitutional Rights violations are inexcusable!

Response by SSG Jim Schimon made Aug 2 at 2020 10:07 AM

2020-08-02T10:07:34-04:00

We all know how solders are treated off base By local police .This is a problem but most command will take the side of local police and them make that town off limits for a short while .But never holding the locals accountable.Look at fort Brag ,Fayetville nick name was faytname/ FDort Hood off of north post WAS Gaitsville and that was off limits in the 80's .You have the hair cut out of state plate you are a target for money for the fines As the military would not back the solders in a lot of local matters .To open Carrie is just another reason to harass the solder .

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2020 11:21 AM

2020-08-02T11:21:01-04:00

What is your “conflicting feeling”?

Response by SGT Tim. Wilson made Aug 2 at 2020 1:42 PM

2020-08-02T13:42:19-04:00

First I’m wondering if the links were removed or what because there not above.
Second and NOT taking away from what happened but if an LEO tells you to do something you comply and then take it up in Court!!!
NOW the above being stated as a former Leo, what was done to 1SG Grisham, his group and the previous individual was totally uncalled for, unprofessional and illegal!!! I truly hope that the police chief and the other officers were all decertified and fired and if it proves to be criminal they should go to jail!!! And that, just for good measure, a sizable punitive financial figure was awarded to all those affected!
I say decertified because any time a cop is fired, unless they go to jail for it, it isn’t very hard for them to move on to another town, state, etc and pick up a new badge. Most places need officers, especially trained and certified officers so bad they are willing to overlook past bad behavior thinking well they got fired for it once so they won’t do that again! And maybe they won’t, but really what’s stopping them from falling into those bad habits again? Especially if all they got was a slap on the wrist the last time and finally fired! Yes I said finally, I mean it’s not like the military where you can screw up once and be roasted! With civilians it seems to take a lot of repeat offenses before anything is done especially with LEOs! I have some ideas on this but that is a horse of a different color!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2020 5:16 PM

2020-08-02T17:16:59-04:00

Doesn't even matter, even if they are found guilty the settlement will be paid out of taxpayer monies and they will just be forced to retire with all their benefits.

Until these public officials have to put money out of their own pockets, nothing will change.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2020 6:24 PM

2020-08-02T18:24:18-04:00

What kind of You responsible first sergeant goes to a protest with open carry in carries a fake weapon unless he’s trying to incite trouble. you responsible first sergeant goes to a protest with open carry in carries a fake weapon unless he’s trying to incite troubleFreaking STUPID

Response by PFC Gabor Magyari made Aug 3 at 2020 2:22 AM

2020-08-03T02:22:37-04:00

I’d say there are entirely too many officers from rank and file to chiefs that let that badge go to their heads and think it puts them above the law. I think that every time one of these officers arrests someone on a false charge, knowingly false, then they should have to go do the time their false conviction would have Yielded the person falsely arrested.
That would keep them in check

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2020 10:06 AM

2020-08-03T10:06:04-04:00

So instead of obeying a yet TBD lawful or unlawful order from a police officer you decided to make a scene. I know you have the right to protest whatever you like but I really wonder what your platform is???
They may have been looking for an armed pedo that fit your description.
You stated police officer drew guns on and detained someone with a protest sign/ You failed or hide what the sign read and because open carry is legal it is still illegal for some with criminal records.
So were yur trying to establish another autonomous zone?

Response by John Berry made Aug 3 at 2020 12:35 PM

2020-08-03T12:35:29-04:00

The first question I would have is probably a silly one: Did they have a Texas 'Licence to Carry' which I have heard is a requirement to carry either open or concealed in the state?

Response by SPC Robert Altig made Aug 4 at 2020 10:26 PM

2020-08-04T22:26:10-04:00

The time to debate the legalities of a stop and frisk is never in the field. If the police are wrong, that will come out in court. If the suspect had merely complied, he wouldn't have been injured. People need to learn that playing Clarence Darrow in the field can have lethal consequences. Being "dead right" is too great a price to pay to make your point. As a retired Asst. Chief of Police, I never understand the logic of taking a chance of giving up your life just to prove that you think the police officer is wrong. You don't know why he has contacted you, what type of incident he was told this was. In short you have no basis for assessing the correctness of his actions based on what he was told when dispatched. Ask yourself, would you open carry if you were responding to help control a riot in a correctional institution and chance having a prisoner get the gun away from you? Don't judge another until you walk a mile in his shoes. Then, who cares. He's a mile away and you've got his shoes.

Response by Tom Vick made Aug 5 at 2020 10:24 AM

2020-08-05T10:24:35-04:00

The police chief and his henchmen conspired to deprive these people of their constitutional rights. Also his right to open or conceal carry in Texas if you have an LTC. If he did not have an LTC he can't legally open carry or conceal carry on public property. Long guns are excepted. The Police chief and henchmen should all be fired and the city of Olmos Park and these incompetent police officers sued. Another exception to the hand gun law... in Texas anyone who can legally own or possess a handgun or ammunition can LEGALLY keep a handgun in their car as long as it is concealed, and if stopped by the police must reveal the presence of said gun immediately without being asked. It's a fine line.

Response by SPC Joseph Nowosielski made Aug 5 at 2020 12:11 PM

2020-08-05T12:11:10-04:00

It certainly looks like the police in that county are the ones who crossed the line. I think it’s incredibly important to remember that we live in a sinful fallen world. Humanity is prone to evil and corruption and every form of leadership and authority needs a checks and balance. Corrupt police as may be the case here are not representative of all police. The same is true when a soldier does something evil and faces UCMJ action, that bad soldier does not represent all soldiers.

We live in a time where people allow the actions of a few to define entire groups of people and roles; and that’s as unjust as this action and others we've seen. When we see corruption we need to call it out and fight it within the parameters established under the constitution.

Response by SFC Louis Chapman made Aug 5 at 2020 12:21 PM

2020-08-05T12:21:12-04:00

The police chief must be a liberal. He was completely within his right to open carry. He was also protecting his community from this nonpeaceful altercation.

Response by PO2 Greg Donahoe made Aug 5 at 2020 1:43 PM

2020-08-05T13:43:23-04:00

There will be an investigation. I hate to comment before that proper look at the facts comes in, but, at first glance, it does appear that the officer made a mistake.

Response by 1SG Jeffrey Mullett made Aug 6 at 2020 2:06 PM

2020-08-06T14:06:50-04:00

Before you travel to specific communities, you need to make sure they don't have local laws outlining open carry. Each level of your community has the right to add to or change State and Federal laws. Federal and State laws allow for a limit to the level local laws can extend to. Cities can institute limitations and non-carry laws. Counties can also have statutes that prevent open carry.
You can open carry in the state, but local areas can have their own limitations.

Response by SSG Charlie Davis made Aug 6 at 2020 7:19 PM

2020-08-06T19:19:58-04:00

As a retired law enforcement officer (25 Years Honolulu Police Department, four years as a
Special Deputy US Marshal - District 22, ten years as an investigator, VP and Security Manager of the largest bank in the state of Hawaii ) I have some experience and an opinion about this issue. First; I want to get this out of the way: Opinions and ass-holes - every one has got one. Second; there is a big - huge - difference between some lone guy staggering down the sidewalk or street obviously agitated, carrying a shotgun, rifle or pistol, yelling in a disorderly manner at no one in particular while displaying the most basic precautions of firearm safety and just generally being stupid. Opposed to an organized group of individuals obviously demonstrating in a public place while engaging in a lawful Constitutional and state law recognized activity. Thirdly; The approach demeanor on both sides of the issue dictates a response by law enforcement. Contrary to popular belief, there is an unwritten law of "Contempt of Cop." If the members of this group automatically reacted to the police presence and approach by raising their hands or putting their hands behind their heads, you would almost literally see every danger antenna immediately shoot up from each officer at the scene. I'm here to tell you, when uniformed police officers show up en-mass with the police chief in attendance, what ever happens at the scene is dictated by the chief. The fact that the chief personally tazed one of the group balking at the command to "get on the ground," starts a whole new phase of policing, the rewriting of the probable cause definition and the suspension of all Constitutional Rights and a new one added on. Once the chief gets involved directly in a confrontation, all bets are off that your Constitutional rights are going to be respected - at least until everything gets sorted out at the station, the hospital or the findings of the medical examiner. The matter of "Contempt of Cop" is a real phenomena and is brutally depicted in a video clip involved an arrested in Minneapolis. Fourthly; Even and without equivocation, "even" if an officer commands you to cease what you are doing and commands you to do something - like get on the ground - just do it. I does not work to argue the situation at the moment. You may be embarrassed, you may have your feelings hurt, you may have a good law suit, but being right sometimes winds up being dead, seriously injured, or worse, handcuffed, taken to a station and held pending charges, arrest processing and having to appear in court later to answer for your perceived indiscretion only to have the court dismiss the charges against you. Now that's not the end of it. When you get arrested, the arrest is recorded in the local, state and federal systems. The so-called FBI arrest records are notoriously incomplete or lacking in arrest information. In the past, the record depended on what department decides to send the FBI data card to the Data Center. Now, I believe its automatic and digital depending on the technical advancement of the department. Regardless, the data record only - ONLY - shows an arrest, it does not show dispositions of those arrests. So don't be a martyr and get arrested to prove a point, in the long run, it doesn't help you at all except some faux admiration of your friends for "taking the bullet." So, if you get arrested for a home invasion self defense incident where you had to do a bad guy, you get arrested initially for Murder or Manslaughter (Homicide is only a definition) and your arrest is digitally sent to the FBI Data Center. Five days later, after being indicted by a grand jury, you are released with no charges as the offense was investigated and determined to be excusable in self defense. The FBI record not only shows you have an arrest for Murder or Manslaughter, you were indicted for the crime! Try to get through NICS with that on your record without having to jump through some hoops. Fiftly; (if there is such a word) Even though you've been put through a process, it may take some time and it may take multiple appearances in court, but eventually, the matter will be cleared up and the true facts known. The problem is, its already happened to you and you are the damaged goods. Law enforcement officials have what is called "Qualified Immunity" which gives them some protection of suit if they are found to have performed "under color of law." You on the other hand, have suffered indignity, the loss - probably - of your firearms. The color of law thing has to be determined before you can get any redress for any alleged Constitutional violations committed against you by any law enforcement official. Probably Cause issues are handled in the state courts. Constitutional Rights and violations of Civil Rights issues are handled in the federal courts. BTW: Judges, prosecutors, politicians and pretty much anyone employed by the "government" have some level of this immunity - go figure. And last: Everyone knows now that you and your group has suffered this indignation and blatant violation of the Constitutional Right, reinforced by state law and it makes the sixth page of the local news rag. Then what happens? Well, the matter losses interest by the media, but still generates a lot of opinion by the community. If the issue hits social media and it almost always does, more opinionated, uninformed jack-offs get into the mix. Pretty soon, it gets the attention of an anti-gun group or a bunch of clueless, tennis-shoe wearing alleged moms from a small town in Kansas (nothing against Kansas, folks) to petition their local government and bring about a "cause." This cause is immediately embraced by the local government and elevated to the state. The state now enjoins the cause through their Attorney General and the matter is brought to the state legislators who immediately pass a bunch of laws about background checks. The publicity over the new laws is now encouragement to the Congressional representatives and now it becomes a matter widely discussed by clueless congressmen and women who are scouring the planet looking for victims to hold up to C-SPAN and say, we need to put a stop to this and legislate mandatory universal background checks. So they pass the bill which for some reason gets by the sitting president and becomes law. Then you, the lone martyr of the Texas take-down want to buy a gun to replace the one the police still have from your arrest four years ago and get declined - because you've been arrested in a violent confrontation with police and charged with possession of a firearm (dismissed) resisting arrest (dismissed) and disorderly conduct (dismissed). Now I ask this questions, Who is the winner in this and if there is a winner, what did they win? Just sayin' . . .

Response by SGT Joseph Dutton made Aug 6 at 2020 11:37 PM

2020-08-06T23:37:30-04:00

I don't open carry or 2 reasons. 1. Your advertising that you are armed. 2. A criminal will target you first and possibly get the jump on you. If a law enforcement officer stops me, I let them know that I'm armed by giving him/her my licenses, insurance and registration whither they ask for it or not. This doesn't apply to long guns.

Response by MAJ David Kline made Aug 9 at 2020 10:54 PM

2020-08-09T22:54:20-04:00

I totally disagree with the police actions from an ethics and lawful perspective. But Grisham is provoker, looks for conflict, and uses his military service to shield him and hide behind. He has no credibility with me.

Response by PO3 Kenneth Suvanto made Aug 10 at 2020 12:04 PM

2020-08-10T12:04:37-04:00

WITAF is happening in this country? When a liberal openly and purposely breaks the law and the media is completely silent about it. It's almost if its not on the news, then it all good. Since when is rioting and looting not against the law but, protecting one's self from that activity can get you arrested? This police chief needs to be held accountable for injuring an innocent person! The police chief needs to be jailed for assault that ended with injury! dang-it!

Response by CPL Gary Syme made Aug 12 at 2020 11:10 AM

2020-08-12T11:10:22-04:00

People think Texas is this "Red" state and it is not. There are more problems with lib big cities and out of control cities and their police departments. I support law enforcement, but I don't support those tyrannical departments that violate citizen's constitutional rights.

Response by PFC Russell W made Aug 12 at 2020 11:53 AM

2020-08-12T11:53:24-04:00

Texas has changed A LOT in the last ten to fifteen years. It has become more "progressively liberal" and the idea that most people have of the "Texas way" is becoming a thing of the past. I've lived there in the early 80's and recently again. I traveled all over Texas for work and believe me, the WHOLE state is changing.

Response by SPC Rob Hunker made Aug 14 at 2020 8:38 PM

2020-08-14T20:38:08-04:00

I am a former Washington County Deputy Sheriff, and this sounds like a case of excessive force due to the officers failure to correctly access the situation at hand.

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Sep 6 at 2020 5:57 AM

2020-09-06T05:57:42-04:00

This is a situation that the court has to decide here. IF it is a fact the people arrested were carrying weapons LEGALLY, then the cop was in the wrong. But like I said, the COURT has to decide this one.

Response by MSgt James "Buck" Buchanan made Sep 11 at 2020 11:45 PM

2020-09-11T23:45:16-04:00

Sounds like an over reaction that grew out of a lack of appropriate and sufficient training, leaving the officer in a position of not knowing which decision to make and ultimately making the wrong one.

Response by 1LT Voyle Smith made Sep 12 at 2020 10:12 AM

2020-09-12T10:12:18-04:00

Am somewhat familiar with the City of Olmos Park. It's a small incorporated community on the NE side of San Antonio, popular with attorneys for its proximity to downtown SA and the Bexar County courthouse. SA has a number of similar communities, each with its own city government (mayor & city council) and tiny police force. (I spent a couple of years on the council of a similar community on the NW side of SA; we had a police chief & two patrolmen whose principal duty was to enforce the speed limit on the only road through town. Traffic fines were a major source of revenue, since our speed limit was 30 mph and all around us it was at least 45 mph.)
I don't know Mr. Grisham nor am I at all familiar with his organization, but I'll offer an opinion anyway. Mr. Grisham seems to have deliberately challenged the Olmos Park officials in the hope of provoking an aggressive response, perhaps for the publicity, maybe hoping to generate new members for his group. I don't really know his motivation. But to openly challenge a peace officer with a badge & a firearm on his home turf was not a smart thing to do. I have good friends who are retired LEOs: a Texas Ranger, an FBI agent and an SAPD officer. They all retired honorably, but they didn't live to their 70s by being stupid. I suspect the citizens of Olmos Park would support their police chief in his efforts to neutralize any outsiders who showed up openly displaying firearms.

Response by SFC Karen Chambliss-Abraham made Sep 12 at 2020 8:24 PM

2020-09-12T20:24:08-04:00

My thoughts are why create a possible "shoot out "situation. Concealed carry is usually safest method. Never argue with someone who KNOWS THEY ARE CORRECT and has a loaded weapon. Call the real police is best.................

Response by MSgt Lance Neufeld made Oct 20 at 2020 6:30 PM

2020-10-20T18:30:40-04:00

My first thought was outrage at the violation and assumption of guilt. Then I thought back to what I would tell someone who gets pulled over in a car for some unknown reason - be respectful and follow the commands of the officers. If they overstep their authority, then they will answer in court. Who knows how this would have played out if they had simply cooperated with the officers.

Response by SSgt Robert Van Buhler III made Nov 10 at 2020 10:52 AM

2020-11-10T10:52:09-05:00

Lawsuit time. It sorts things out in Court. then again, this is Bexar County. San Antonio mindset. It's a bey-har.

Response by SMSgt Bob Wilson made Nov 10 at 2020 2:58 PM

2020-11-10T14:58:23-05:00

OK, what is the rest of the story? In 20+ years of investigating I've found out this to be true. There are three [3] stories--[a] Person "A"s story. [b] Person "B"s story. [c] The truth.

Response by SFC Geedee Meadows made Nov 10 at 2020 4:10 PM

2020-11-10T16:10:41-05:00

This lends credence to the statement that it is just as important to know when to do something as it is to know how to do it. The process is what i have to digest, It is pointless to argue with someone who does not have the cognitive ability to understand your view point. There are other means of communicating and it seems that when we do not move effectively and expeditiously we will encounter challenges in communication. There is one more thing that I have learned in over six decades and that is everyone has their opinion and when we fail to respect that, some people are willing to go to drastic lengths to express themselves.

Response by SSG Stephan Piper made Nov 11 at 2020 1:40 AM

2020-11-11T01:40:17-05:00

These officers need to be fired and arrested. They swore an oath which they did not uphold! I can see if the officers ask for I.D to ensure they were legally allowed to carry but that's not what they did. What those officers did do was violate their 2nd Amendment rights which " Shall NOT be infringed ". Police have a bad habit of arresting people who have broken no laws and this needs to change. Police need to be held accountable for their actions. Police are there to serve and to protect, to uphold the law, not operate above it or outside of it.

Response by SP5 John Debby made Nov 11 at 2020 10:11 AM

2020-11-11T10:11:08-05:00

I am probably going to be the only one with this type of response. But why as a state or country do we need to regress back to the days of the cowboys? I know we have a second admendment but it does not state anywhere that open carry should be an ongoing policy. Instead of challenging the sheriff over a bad ordinance the sergeant and his crew should work to overturn the ordinance and return to a policy of no weapons anywhere in public. Civility is better than an armed populace. That's why we have a police force.

Response by SFC Thomas Howes made Nov 11 at 2020 11:14 AM

2020-11-11T11:14:13-05:00

I am from Texas an San Antonio is a democratic city and they or I should say the chief of police and a lot of the officer do not want to follow the laws of Texas they need to bring in the Rangers to do an investigation on the department and the city needs to fire the chief and the mayor.

Response by SGT Matthew Gagliardo made Nov 12 at 2020 2:32 PM

2020-11-12T14:32:33-05:00

Violation of constitutional rights. If we while deployed aren't allowed to shoot until we seem the carrier a threat, then police should be way better about doing that to our own citizens.

Response by PO2 John Driskill made Nov 12 at 2020 6:32 PM

2020-11-12T18:32:18-05:00

If I remember correctly that this has not been the only incident involving this police chief and open carry. Sounds like it maybe time for a civil law suit.

Response by CW4 Wayne Walusiak made Nov 13 at 2020 9:54 AM

2020-11-13T09:54:55-05:00

with biden heading to the front office, his supporters will be pushing back on all your freedoms. Get used to it?

Response by SGT Juan Robledo made Nov 13 at 2020 5:45 PM

2020-11-13T17:45:27-05:00

It's got to political, this police chief who conducted himself in an unprofessional manner, apparently the police chief in this case does not want to accept Texas Law, if you have a conceal carry license and are abiding all the laws on the books, why harrass them, taze them, and the victim has every right to SUE for his injuries and file an IAB report on the police chief and his officers for their actions, might be able to get the Texas Rangers to investigate

Response by SSG Hank Ortega made Nov 14 at 2020 8:14 AM

2020-11-14T08:14:45-05:00

The issue of "Legal" open carry is based on the law in Texas: One can carry openly only IF he also has a concealed carry license. In order for the OP to state that the person arrested was "Legally" carrying openly, he would have to confirm that the person arrested actually had a CCW. Texas is not a "Constitutional Carry" state (like Arizona, for instance). This subject is covered in CCW classes in Texas.

Response by SPC Kenneth James made Nov 14 at 2020 1:01 PM

2020-11-14T13:01:24-05:00

Not being the the least funny sgt but we have been trying for a very long time why police decide to do what ever they want to any United states people and the worst of all I as a guy that grew up in a place and time where told the world what cops do and now they see it and still don't want to believe and not to mention the courts every cop is always right and we are wrong because we are not supposed to know the law thank God the army is a little different they always gave me a fair shot so all I can say is it has been this way a very long time

Response by SPC Brian Klotz made Nov 15 at 2020 5:01 PM

2020-11-15T17:01:34-05:00

I don't understand? Exactly what are your feelings conflicted...about?

Response by PFC Kenny Enriquez made Nov 15 at 2020 10:31 PM

2020-11-15T22:31:57-05:00

Response by SP5 Earl Reeves made Nov 16 at 2020 3:43 AM

2020-11-16T03:43:54-05:00

Number 1, when did we elect to go back to the wild Wild West? Open carry is bullshit for the man/child that thinks it make him tough. It should never have been passed anywhere for any reason. More of the authoritarian bullshit we have been living through for the last 4 years.

Number 2, the police all across this country have been coddling the alt-right and punishing legitimate protesters. Too bad that the table got turned somewhat on people who had no legitimate purpose to have guns present at a protest.

This goddamn administration and its backers and followers are destroying this democracy.

Response by LTC John Wilson made Nov 17 at 2020 3:27 PM

2020-11-17T15:27:10-05:00

Texas is an "Open Carry" state, BUT there are narrow prohibitions to open carry in the state.
To answer the question, we must apply Texas law as listed under Section 30.07 of the Texas Penal Code (https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.30.htm#30.07). Based on my reading of the statute, my Texas CCW training, and the account provided above, it is not clear that Grisham or any one else involved in the event were in violation of Open Carry restrictions. They MAY have been in violation, or they MAY NOT have been in violation.

First, the account is slim and slanted in a way that places the Police in a bad light. The account refers to a video of the arrest, but no link is provided. I found a video account here (https://youtu.be/P8HD30xkSXk), and subsequent video coverage ongoing. This has been more illuminating, but not particularly decisive on their own merits.

Among the news reports cataloged on YouTube after he incident, Olmos Park has a city ordinance that countermands Texas State Law and prohibits the open carry of firearms, which apparently was the genesis of the "event" listed above -- i.e. a Open Carry protest of the Olmos Park ordinance.

So, we have a few questions to wrestle with. First, is the Olmos Park ordinance legal? According to an originalist view of the U.S. Constitution (notably Amendments II and XIV), the Olmos Park ordinance is certainly unconstitutional. But there are numerous statutes and ordinances across the nation that violate the Constitution. I could not find anything within the Texas Law that authorizes or prohibits a municipality passing a law against Open Carry. The Olmos Park government apparently believes that they do have the power or right to, and Open Carry Texas believes that they do not have such power or right. Ergo, we have a conflict that Open Carry Texas sought to reconcile through Civil Disobedience -- and thus the ensuing conflict referenced above.

Second, did Open Carry Texas cross the line? From the point of view of the Olmos Park Government and Police, the answer is an emphatic YES! I would contend NO! The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is an unalienable right protected under the U.S. Constitution. It should not even require a Texas State Law to protect this right; however, such a law exists and reinforces the Natural Right. Moreover, when confronted by what they perceived as "abusive" and "unlawful" exercise of police force, the Open Carry Texas participants did not respond with in-kind deadly force -- even though some might argue they had every right and authority to exercise by our own Foundational precedent (Note: Lexington and Concord). So, while OCT certainly creeped a toe right up to it, I believe any reasonable person would have to conclude that OCT did NOT "cross the line."

Third, did OPPD cross the line? When confronted with what they felt was an "armed and hostile" threat (from their perspective), they certainly may have felt they were well within their authority. Moreover, they were enforcing a municipal law that they felt was valid. However, If we view the municipal law through the permissions to restrict open carry afforded by Texas State Law, the OPPD most assuredly cross the line.

Section 30.07 of the Texas Penal Code DOES grant limited restrictions to Open Carry of Firearms. But, even under these, the offense of carrying the weapon where it is treated as a "...Class C misdemeanor punishable by a fine not to exceed $200, except that the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if it is shown on the trial of the offense that, after entering the property, the license holder was personally given the notice by oral communication described by Subsection (b) and subsequently failed to depart." If we assume that Olmos Park was exercising the right of a "property owner" under this statute, their first duty was to inform the OCT folks that they had a duty to depart -- at which point only a Class C Misdemeanor was in play. At this point, the OPPD may have attempted to defuse a powder keg by issuing citations or summons -- which would have undermined the optics OCT was looking for. OPPD decided to play into the OCT plans and escalate the situation by executing felony arrests of an "armed and dangerous" suspect -- and it would appear they relished doing so. Then the question become, did they have to slam CJ Grisham to the ground and taze him? I am not a trained law enforcement officer, but it seems to me that the force used was excessive, executed in anger.

Grisham contacted the Chief in a phone call and asked how OPPD would respond to an open carry citizen. The Chief acknowledged that Texas is an Open Carry State and stated that is not OPPD police policy to draw down on person legally open carrying a firearm (Phone call: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_X21tsxib0).

So, did OPPD cross the line? Apparently, YES. In subsequent reporting in the intervening months since this incident, Olmos Park has dismissed the charges and returned the firearms to the owners arrested during the event (https://youtu.be/-gj8eG-NX8I). According to the statement made by Grisham providing more background regarding the incident and the video evidence provided (https://youtu.be/88-lpSvAUeg?t=1152), the OPPD, under direct leadership of the Chief, unreasonably and in violation of OPPD police, "crossed the line."

The resource cannot be found.

Response by Sgt Robert Lombard made Dec 20 at 2020 10:58 AM

2020-12-20T10:58:07-05:00

My geezerly take on this is that the police chief broke a few of the laws he swore to enforce, and that Mr. Grisham was politically motivated rather than patriotically motivated. Both of them screwed up, driven by their egos.

Response by PO1 George White made Dec 22 at 2020 10:20 PM

2020-12-22T22:20:34-05:00

Who was out of line? Damn, goes without saying. The ones who broke the law, Chief Valenciano and crew.

But, what the hell guys, with a national example of law breaking and corruption, is it any surprise that a police chief comes to believe he is a law onto himself?

Response by SP5 Paul Riley made Dec 27 at 2020 5:46 PM

2020-12-27T17:46:04-05:00

1 am from Massachucetts where people have been killed because the toy gun they had was real.

Response by COL William Oseles made Dec 27 at 2020 7:47 PM

2020-12-27T19:47:16-05:00

The police chief needs to be arrested for abuse of power and false arrest.

Response by AN Ron Wright made Dec 27 at 2020 9:17 PM

2020-12-27T21:17:21-05:00

wrong on so many levels of following the law which the chief did not do

Response by SrA Les Dunaway made Jan 1 at 2021 2:34 PM

2021-01-01T14:34:10-05:00

It's important to remember and understand that there are locales in TX, and in most states where laws and rights are not enforced and protected. Cities / counties / states have been taken over by leftwing anti-Americans

Response by CPL John McCulley made Jan 3 at 2021 7:46 PM

2021-01-03T19:46:12-05:00

Conflicting feelings? For what? Even if you're anti-gun, If someone is obeying the law they should not be arrested, little own assaulted (if the arrest is illegal, then force used is assault)! I'm tired, to the point of being furious, of police officers who feel they are the arbiters of what is legal. I have enormous respect for the law enforcement community & the majority of them do their job very well! But recently there have been some that have arrested & or harrassed people demonstrating in defense of their Second Amendment rights, in a completely legal manner. Personally I believe the offending officers should not only be sued personally, but I think they should be criminally prosecuted for illegally detaining someone, which if done by anyone else would be called kidnapping.

Response by SPC Carmen Ramirez made Jan 5 at 2021 2:03 PM

2021-01-05T14:03:21-05:00

I saw the video, where Grisham went wrong was that when the deputy was taking the gun off him, he grabbed the rifle by instinct. The officer responded as any officer would do. It is my opinion that since Texas is an open carry state, every gun nut will carry openly even if they themselves legally cannot carry. If the officer was responding to calls, he is obligated to assess whether the person carrying is not a felon or in the commission of a crime. I know lots of snowflakes snitch and they love this kind of stuff but, if there was no complaint then i wonder why the officer stopped him to begin with.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2021 5:05 PM

2021-01-18T17:05:25-05:00

Having worked in civil litigation for years (as a non-attorney) in this particular area, my advice to folks finding themselves in an adverse confrontation with police is always the same: Fight it in court and not in the street. Most of the time you are at a great disadvantage in the street and more often than not if you win your suit, you are not walking away with more money if you got hurt. In all 50 states and territories, a police officer must have to be able to articulate reasonable (in the common sense) suspicion that a crime is about to occur, is occurring, or has occurred, in order to detain a person believed to be involved, i.e. give them some sort of order to comply with. If you happen to disagree with your detention or arrest (in the case that probable cause either by observation or in the course of the detention supposedly arises), I advise to comply with all non self-incriminatory demands, (do not admit guilt or knowledge of having committed an offense, do not answer and ask for an attorney when questioned regarding any potential offenses), and instead of focusing on how angry you are or on the dilemmas of the situation, take careful mental notes of everything happening, highlighting behavior or restrictions or actions against you, that you believe are in violation of your rights. It is by far more beneficial to have the most accurate recollection of the events than a blur of profanities or physical violence. Stay courteous but firm regarding your 5th amendment rights. If you are protesting or otherwise exercising your 1st amendment rights, always have a person not directly involved in your action on the sideline video taping the event (if you can get a friendly press person or completely neutral person/ friend to cover your event, even better). In that case, also be sure you do not violate any laws. I advise brushing up on local and state laws and city/county ordinances governing public and private places (such as sidewalks, roads, and parking lots - there are many little perhaps even nonsensical ordinances that often are a misdemeanor offense). In any case, your attorney will be your best weapon in this fight. There are many that solely deal with this type of case. A good attorney will properly filter the legal aspects of the situation and be able discern which perceived rights violations are real and which are not (this is why you should do your best to commit as much detail of your confrontation to memory as possible). There are entire organizations dedicated to protecting people in confrontations with government authority (ACLU for eg. they also have a myriad of good advice for such confrontations). Your veracity in testimony will be by far less scrutinized by the trier of facts (the court) if your behavior during the arrest was exemplary. In this type of situation always consider yourself in court beginning with the first order given to you by a police officer (this is why you need to stay calm, cool, and collected, no matter how offensive it may be to you). Largely our courts still work. If not for you, there are court of appeals. I don't believe anything that any side posts publicly, as it is almost always a distortion of the facts in order to attempt to influence the outcome of the ongoing or future litigation. Read actual court transcripts when they are public, to see what really happened. In this case, it would have been by far more becoming to comply with the orders as given (no matter how much they appeared to be a blatant violation of rights), and then seeing this out in court.To me it appears (just from the info I have) that both sides here could have acted more appropriately.

Response by SGT James Murphy made Jan 30 at 2021 1:39 PM

2021-01-30T13:39:30-05:00

While I am NOT a fan of Open Carry, I support it 100% as it IS Constitutional. The reason I don't like open carry is that it can be used in inappropriate situations and cause more harm than good. So Standing on the 2nd Amendment YES they were 100% within their Rights. Would I do it? No. I Conceal Carry 100% of the time then there are no inappropriate situations. Hope I never have to use my training.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2021 1:49 PM

2021-01-30T13:49:34-05:00

I'm proud to have had the opportunity to meet CJ at a rally in Michigan

Response by Cpl John Cogswell made Feb 15 at 2021 11:35 AM

2021-02-15T11:35:01-05:00

Police being held accountable? Cool story, bro. Let me know when that goes down.

Cops are not held accountable.

Response by CPT Douglas Hinckley made Feb 19 at 2021 1:42 AM

2021-02-19T01:42:18-05:00

Governors Abbot has been very clear about protecting the 2nd Amendment in Texas. Contact the State Attornies Office and report it. Sheesh, gangs have more rights in San Antonio than law abiding citizens.

Response by MSG Frederick Otero made Feb 21 at 2021 10:49 AM

2021-02-21T10:49:44-05:00

Take it up in the courts, when he refused the order he open Pandora's box. We have courts to settle disputes of this kind but when he refused the order by police then it seems that he was provoking the law to take action, it did and the confrontation went from bad to worse. Poor choice on his part and unfortunate for him. Hope he recovers and learns from his experience. Law enforcement needs to address better ways to diffuse these types of situations.

Response by SSG Bill McCoy made Feb 21 at 2021 3:47 PM

2021-02-21T15:47:48-05:00

Like Texas, Pennsylvania is an "Open Carry State." We still need a "Protection Permit" for concealed carry, and I've had one since 1979. It's common here for groups of 2nd Amendment minded people to go as a group and open carry in shopping malls, WalMart, etc. I agree with them that it's their RIGHT, and the only problem I have is, "WHY give up a tactical advantage?" After all, if you open carry and happen to walk in on a robber, you could very well become an immediate target; instead of a witness. Likewise with those who like to wear police ballcaps, or T-shirts. When a criminal would see, "whatever police," on a hat or logo, that could end badly for the wearer.
As for the Texas incident - that's not the first PD to react so poorly. There are several YouTube videos of open carry advocates being arrested, illegally - especially those carrying long guns of any type.
I suspect that police chief will ultimately end up the target of an expensive lawsuit, as he should.
Nevertheless, open carry - to me - is just asking for trouble even though in open carry states, it is a RIGHT.

Response by SSG Jerry Pannell made Feb 22 at 2021 1:19 AM

2021-02-22T01:19:21-05:00

If the police are not following the law then they should be held for their actions

Response by PO2 Jack LaBarge made Mar 1 at 2021 7:39 AM

2021-03-01T07:39:58-05:00

Hummm could the “chef” possibly be a Democrat? Anti Ownership of firearms? And could not Read nor Understand the words of the Second Amendment, and did Not Believe in the Constitution or Bill of Rights!

Response by LTC Patrick Turner made Mar 6 at 2021 9:27 AM

2021-03-06T09:27:51-05:00

Normally I would support a police officer in the execution of their duties but, based on the circumstances alleged to be true, he needs to not only be trained better but probably needs to be fired for official oppression.

Response by SSgt Brian Burch made Mar 6 at 2021 3:22 PM

2021-03-06T15:22:41-05:00

Police say they want respect, at least that's what I hear. If they continue harassing law abiding citizens, who will they look to for help when trouble really commences. I wasn't always like this but I am very leery of the police. Too nervous for my liking.

Response by MSgt Allen Chandler made Mar 7 at 2021 10:11 AM

2021-03-07T10:11:13-05:00

In my opinion this has nothing to do with gun control it has nothing to do with the right or wrong idea of open carry it has nothing to do with the state of Texas. If a policeman and in this case the police chief don’t know the law and don’t follow it that’s a big problem and that’s what the story is about. I don’t get to decide whether the speed limit is right or wrong I’m obligated to Obey it. The police chief is obligated to enforce the laws as they are and not re-interpret them on his own personal whim. If he doesn’t know the law That is not qualified for his job

Response by SFC Oddie Brown made Mar 9 at 2021 7:49 PM

2021-03-09T19:49:02-05:00

My opinion and mine alone. This chief is an idiot who cherry picks the laws he wants to enforce. Texas is a big state so there are still liberal hotbeds here with jackasses like this running things. He was wrong and will probably get a slap on the wrist. Problem with that is one day he will attempt to arrest the wrong one and it will end with someone getting shot, more than likely him or one of his deputies. These boys down here take there 2nd amendment rights very serious and they are willing to go to jail or die for that right. Sort of like some old boys that got together over a couple hundred years ago to "form a more perfect union."

Response by 1SG Brian Adams made Mar 10 at 2021 11:26 AM

2021-03-10T11:26:27-05:00

Wow, of all places Texas....the Chief was out of line and corrupt, based on what I am reading and viewing....so based on what I see and hear...Chief is going to jail...

Response by Cpl Quintin Daniels made Mar 10 at 2021 5:06 PM

2021-03-10T17:06:59-05:00

Carry laws are racist. If you research the law, it was enacted to prohibit freed slaves from owning firearms. The intent was to allow these people to be terrorized without repercussion or the means to protect their family or property. That’s why I feel carry laws should be abolished and background checks get more difficult for all.

Response by PVT Mark Whitcomb made Mar 11 at 2021 10:30 AM

2021-03-11T10:30:45-05:00

I hope the SOBS have deep pockets cause they be in for a heavy-duty civil suit. Their civil rights were also infringed upon. Which could bring Federal charges.

Response by Capt Wayne Burden made Mar 11 at 2021 2:38 PM

2021-03-11T14:38:26-05:00

Well, this is simple... the OPPD will be sued for a FORTUNE along with the officer and chief. Chief will be fired. City will be out millions in lawsuit. Grisham and buddies will be back in park doing their thing once he recovers from his less than friendly encounter. Cops need to learn the law and get their heads out of their ass!!

Response by 1stSgt Leroy Slater made Mar 11 at 2021 8:47 PM

2021-03-11T20:47:04-05:00

It is simply stupid to show people that you are carrying a weapon. I am a survivor of the Viet Nam conflict with 185 combat missions, I am all but tempted to hurt anyone with a weapon, sorry my training still lasts. I was trained on how to take weapons away from those that had them.

Response by LTC William Woods made Mar 11 at 2021 9:41 PM

2021-03-11T21:41:18-05:00

How about comply with the officer’s instructions, then sue them for false arrest? Arguing with a cop when one or both are armed usually results in someone getting hurt. They should Argue point in court, not on YouTube.

Response by SPC Steven Depuy made Mar 12 at 2021 8:27 AM

2021-03-12T08:27:51-05:00

Its a state issue and the AG of Texas will have to deal with it. Its a crazy world. I have a concealed permit but rarely carry these days. Frankly, if I take my family out to dinner, I would prefer we didn't have to deal with a place full of pistol packing people drinking beer with their steak at Texas Roadhouse, but its their legal right to do it in most states.

Response by SFC Terry Bryant made Mar 12 at 2021 1:20 PM

2021-03-12T13:20:54-05:00

I for one am a staunch Pro 2A conservative. However in ANY situation where a police officer gives a command whether he is lawful or not should be obeyed IMMEDIATLY. That is the law. Then you take it to court. I can not ever condone anyone disobeying a lawful order by ANY police officer for ANY reason. That is paramount to anarchy and lawlessness. I know many will disagree with me but that is the difference between thugs and law abiding citizens. We do not take the law into our own hands even if we feel we are right or not doing anything wrong.

Response by PO1 Daniel Ladd made Mar 12 at 2021 5:34 PM

2021-03-12T17:34:54-05:00

Police Officers are trained very well before they are placed on patrol. Ever Police Officer knows what constitutes a legal arrest and should know what does not constitute a legal arrest. They also know the penalties if they violate their oath and know that their fufillmate to that oath is the first priority. The Chief is so deep in this illegal arrest he should be suspended and the Texas Rangers tasked with conducting an investigation.

Response by 1SG Patrick Sims made Mar 13 at 2021 5:36 PM

2021-03-13T17:36:20-05:00

If open carry is legal, that's the way it is. If a liberally minded police chief wants to violate the law to suit his political point of view he does so at his own risk. As for me, I prefer to conceal carry. I don't want anyone to know I have a firearm on me.

Response by SPC Stiv ChenRobbins made Mar 13 at 2021 9:54 PM

2021-03-13T21:54:12-05:00

If the story is just as presented in the opening post, it is clear the police were in the wrong.

Response by PFC Chesty Puller made Mar 14 at 2021 12:32 PM

2021-03-14T12:32:24-04:00

The only conclusion I can come to is that you’re conflicted about whether or not the constitution should be upheld. I suggest you sign up for a Civics refresher course now. WTF?!

Response by SMSgt Tom Burns made Mar 14 at 2021 7:33 PM

2021-03-14T19:33:54-04:00

The Chief of Police and her officers were out of line in making the arrest.

Response by SFC Randy Hellenbrand made Mar 14 at 2021 7:59 PM

2021-03-14T19:59:51-04:00

It depends if you think normal people who need to carry guns to make up for their inadequacies are NORMAL. I DON'T!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2021 8:29 PM

2021-03-14T20:29:58-04:00

Texas is not a Constitutional Carry State. So if you decide to run around in Texas carrying a pistol expect an interaction with LE.

Response by SGT Gary Tob made Mar 14 at 2021 10:52 PM

2021-03-14T22:52:55-04:00

Unfortunately most people including military and Leo's don't know and haven't learned the organic documents of our Federal Government as well as the State Constitution of their jurisdictions.

Response by SPC Steven Nihipali made Mar 15 at 2021 9:09 AM

2021-03-15T09:09:47-04:00

I am very aware on wday going in with OCT and this action. Olmos Park is an area of San Antonio that's kinda left to its own, the area where if you're not a rideshare driver, you can have the cops called on you. OCT if a fantastic movement and I agree with what they're doing. Bringing to light your rigid and abilities, safely and everyone goes home at the end of the day. OCT doesn't have any videos of them shooting themselves unlike other "pro rights" group

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2021 3:13 PM

2021-03-17T15:13:12-04:00

That police chief needs to be fired and prosecuted. Grisham has a great lawsuit on his hands.

Response by LtCol Julio Villalba made Mar 21 at 2021 12:22 PM

2021-03-21T12:22:55-04:00

Unfortunately the law has to change with regards to how police interact with civilians and in this case law abiding citizens. Law enforcement can get away with how they approach these situations (when they take action in a bad way) under what is called "Qualified Immunity". A good analogy of this is what most people know as "Diplomatic Immunity" with Foreign Government Officials. Yes this incident will be investigated, taken court, reviewed, etc. but after a long an difficult process this will be dismissed (in someway) and the police officer's involved will go back to work or at get reassigned to another location and will still be in Law Enforcement. The police are protected by very powerful organizations which include the "Fraternal Order of Police", their Police Unions, local and State police attorney groups, IBPO / IBCO (and the list goes on). They know how to deal with these issues and this Immunity, under the law, allows them to take aggressive and violent behavior. If this law were changed police would have to think twice before they use force or deadly force because they would know they would be held accountable with no immunity type of protection. Consequence would be real then. Good video to watch on this is by Steve Lehto (lawyer) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3-egJCXufQ , it is an eye opener.

SCOTUS Refuses to Hear Crazy Qualified Immunity Case - Ep. 7.347

Which just makes the field of law more confusing than before.http://www.lehtoslaw.com

Response by CPT Kenneth Rankin made Mar 25 at 2021 3:57 PM

2021-03-25T15:57:26-04:00

Just watched the video and simply speechless and appalled at the gross abuse of power and the violation of American citizens civil rights! ALL of those wearing badges of law enforcement are guilty of violating their oaths of office and should summarily be fired as well as arrested immediately! Not one of them declared why they were there or for what reason they had for the interaction, nor did they at least once try to de-escalate the situation. The police chief is guilty of assault amongst the other charges. Those against 2A are going to repeat this over an over again...I for one am tired of the overreach and if they continue this path, there will be a time in the future when there will be bloodshed and the guilty are those who do NOT support the constitution. Makes me very angry to see this in our country!

Response by SPC Fred Nehren made Apr 12 at 2021 9:20 AM

2021-04-12T09:20:35-04:00

Not all details available.

Response by Sgt Gene Stanton made Apr 13 at 2021 6:33 PM

2021-04-13T18:33:16-04:00

Sue the Doo Doo out of them and make them an example of how idiots should be treated. Getting fired is too little too late for this police dept.

Response by SPC Donn Sinclair made May 17 at 2021 7:23 AM

2021-05-17T07:23:57-04:00

Let me make this clear up front, I don't do it, but I've got nothing against OC. If that's your thing, by all means, rock on. That said, going out in public with a holstered handgun is one thing, a loaded AR or shotgun on a tactical sling will get you unwanted attention, legal or not. A few years back, there were a couple guys here in Michigan who decided their OC right included walking into a police station with slung AR's. Guess what happened next. Don't know about anywhere else, but around here, it seems the OC advocates all have a confrontational chip on their collective shoulders. Doesn't help their cause IMHO.

Response by SFC Robert Bundrick made May 24 at 2021 4:19 AM

2021-05-24T04:19:59-04:00

I agree these cops were out of line people are confused about the Bill that was passed! As of yet that Bill has not been approved by the Governor, I believe it has one more hurdle to go before Abbott can approve it officially so anyone walking around with a handgun openly is in violation of the ordinance in place right now! At the end of the day as a citizen you are playing with your life if a cop reacts in "fear"! Qualified Immunity will almost guarantee an acquittal if the cop uses the magic phrase "I feared for my life"! Short of video being shot of these guys actually committing crimes it will be your word against theirs! If you want to express your 2nd Amendment then get organized and imo should have your cameras set on live FB or whatever social platform that can go live so if they confiscate your phones there will be a record saved of the incident online which they cannot destroy!

Response by SFC Randy Hellenbrand made Jun 10 at 2021 7:22 PM

2021-06-10T19:22:49-04:00

More guns = more dead kids. Deal with it.

Response by PO3 Michael Hinton made Jul 16 at 2021 4:00 PM

2021-07-16T16:00:30-04:00

Normally I would agree with the "just comply crowd" but unfortunately I can't. Our legal system is too screwed up to believe your rights will be protected. Cops lie and forge paperwork, cops will lie on the stand, some cops don't care about the law only their verison of it like in this case. I took a oath to defended the constitution, I did not take oath to defend police departments or political party just the constitution as it is written not how I choose to interpret it. So thanks to years of dirty cops, illegal police killings of citizens, illegal search and seizures, cops raping women on duty,cops beating their wives and cops planting evidence, they can not be blindly trusted. I have friends who are LEO'S, so I'm not anti-police but my trust in them as a whole is at all-time low. I share the same beliefs as a LEO, I will protect myself and family at all cost regardless of a badge or who the person is threatening my safety or my family safety. Have a blessed day everyone.

Response by SPC Steven Nihipali made Jul 17 at 2021 1:58 PM

2021-07-17T13:58:31-04:00

Hates the problem with idiots in Texas... democrats don't give a fuck about rights or the constitution until it benefits them. These liberal shitbags are why Texas is running to the sewers

Response by SP5 Tom Flaherty made Jul 17 at 2021 3:33 PM

2021-07-17T15:33:53-04:00

1. when given a directive by law enforcement follow it. you may not like it , you may believe it is illegal, on the scene in the possession of weapons in not the time nor place to question or challenge legal authority.
2. get a lawyer and file a suit against the city/county/police and the chief as an individual. lawyers will probably take a case like this on a percentage basis or at not cost to gain publicity.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2021 6:25 PM

2021-07-17T18:25:44-04:00

And this is why I am no fan of the police. They do not care about the law nor your constitutional rights.

Response by 1SG Patrick Sims made Jul 17 at 2021 10:55 PM

2021-07-17T22:55:28-04:00

I understand open carry is allowed in parts of this country, and people have a right to do what they believe to be right concerning this policy. Personally, I prefer to conceal carry. I don't want people to know I'm armed until I have to defend myself.

Response by MSG Brian Keene made Jul 18 at 2021 11:32 PM

2021-07-18T23:32:37-04:00

With the rise in domestic terrorism in the last few years and a failed insurrection on January 6 of this year, I suspect that protesting while armed is a thing of the past. If a riot breaks out during your protest, how do the police know which people carrying guns are the GOOD guys?

Response by SPC James Jackson made Jul 19 at 2021 2:42 PM

2021-07-19T14:42:42-04:00

Even in "red" states you have "blue" pockets and Bexar County is on of those "blue" pockets. For all of those saying "well he should have known that was going to happen even though he could" .. shame! For too long the 2nd Amendment has been treated like an afterthought right.. it is not! It is no more less important than any of the ten (yes ten) that make up the Bill of Rights and the additional Amendments henceforth. Whenever you hear folks saying they are after your guns and the 2nd and you discount them, you need to remember these moments and reconsider your thoughts because every time they get away with stuff like this or the b.s. of "closing loopholes" or "commonsense gunlaw" what ever it is just one more chip off of your rights that they have gotten away with and are moving on to the next. Pretty soon you'll be stuck holding the tootsie roll pop lollipop stick after Mister Owl showed you it took three bites to get to the center.

Response by SP5 Hugh Brown made Jul 19 at 2021 7:03 PM

2021-07-19T19:03:59-04:00

Local police have the idea that they are not subject to the law.

Response by Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis made Jul 19 at 2021 10:38 PM

2021-07-19T22:38:45-04:00

This should now be a matter for the Courts. Our Justice System provides that, after Law Enforcement has acted, the actions of all involved may be put before the scrutiny of the Court; at this point, a judge will need to decide, unless there is also a jury involved at which point it becomes a team effort.

The accused need to be careful and meticulous in their defense. They are innocent until proven guilty. With that said, the State Prosecutor will do what has to be done to make that happen. That's the job. Now, the Defense Attorney needs to figure out a strategy to bring the truth of the matter into the courtroom.

The phone conversation might be a good place to start. Also, LEO body-camera records would be helpful. Normally, I support Law Enforcement; we all should. In this case, the Court needs to sort this out and render a judgement.

Response by Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis made Jul 19 at 2021 10:46 PM

2021-07-19T22:46:31-04:00

Response by SPC Wil Brown made Jul 20 at 2021 12:29 PM

2021-07-20T12:29:00-04:00

Qualified immunity is written for what we as humans aspire to be (it assumes we will act with integrity and honor when no one is watching) it doesn’t account for the frail egos of a lot of us when we are confronted by some unwilling to bend to demands that are unconstitutional.

Response by CW2 Bob Searle made Jul 20 at 2021 1:13 PM

2021-07-20T13:13:39-04:00

Need to contact the sheriff of the county as a police chief is under city authority, but the sheriff is the state constitutionally authorized authority. He serves the people, not a city clique.

Response by MSgt Eugene Pullins Jr made Jul 20 at 2021 7:42 PM

2021-07-20T19:42:47-04:00

Welcome to the real America

Response by PO1 Todd McMillin made Jul 21 at 2021 7:23 PM

2021-07-21T19:23:03-04:00

The 2nd Amendment is a mixed bag. The point of it was to protect our nation from tyranny. Yet, we elected Tyrants into power since 1980 onwards who have done more harm to America then helping it. The fact is that Firearms were also tied to Military/Militia Forces; that every able bodied person who was over the age of 18 was supposed to serve in uniform to protect the nation.

Again, we need to look at the fact is that there's plenty of individuals whom are unfit to serve as well as unfit to own firearms as well. We took the model from the Scandinavian Nation-States and the UK; in that those whom were unfit to serve were unfit to own firearms; which is why those countries have less firearm/gun violence then the USA does.

The fact that anyone can get a firearm and bypass proper legal ownership laws is perfect example with Kyle Rittenhouse (a Domestic Terrorist) who was armed by his friends/family and given a pass on committing murder because of his age. Either he's an ADULT and tried as such or he's a juvenile and his parent(s) need to be held accountable for his actions. The fact that law enforcement allowed him to murder people engaged in their 1st Amendment Right. Which has been eroded by Evangelical White Nationalists thinking that we're a White Christian Nation and clearly failed basic social studies and history classes. Then again 40 years of Dumbing Down America and undoing all the great things done by every President from FDR to Carter was thrown in the dumpster by Reagan, Bush, Clinton, etc.

If we're going to support the Constitution it includes either making mandatory state service (military or otherwise) as law again (WPAs and other programs) Which grants the legal right to own firearms as part of military/militia. OR we need to change the 2nd Amendment to stop letting the mentally unfit and other dangerous criminals have access to them because some morons need guns to protect themselves from The Government whom are clearly aren't fit to own them to begin with.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2021 10:43 PM

2021-07-21T22:43:06-04:00

It is obvious the Police in that town are crooked along with the Police Chief. However, here’s my take on carrying open. Just say no to open carry. Carry concealed. No one needs any advanced warning you’re carrying. Never give an adversary an upper hand by knowing how much fire power you have. A 1SG should know that. Need a concealed permit? Get one - simple as that.

Response by CPL Sharon Fahey made Jul 22 at 2021 12:42 PM

2021-07-22T12:42:13-04:00

Every single uniformed Nazi should be prosecuted and fired. Do they live near Austin? Some people with authority in our country have forgotten what country they live in or think the liberals will invite them to the WH.

Response by SN Dale "CG" Veach made Jul 23 at 2021 4:06 PM

2021-07-23T16:06:43-04:00

[login to see]

FLOOD HIS E-mail!!! Idiot is way out of line and needs to be prosecuted.

Response by SN Dale "CG" Veach made Jul 23 at 2021 4:11 PM

2021-07-23T16:11:30-04:00

https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/arrestwhilefilming.pdf
Court documents for corrupt police in Olmos Park

arrestwhilefilming.pdf

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Response by Maj Maria Avellaneda made Jul 24 at 2021 12:59 AM

2021-07-24T00:59:24-04:00

People with power are dangerous! Sadly this country has become a hub for personal rights abuse besides racist.

Response by TSgt James Warfield made Jul 24 at 2021 3:44 PM

2021-07-24T15:44:20-04:00

I am more worried about the our military personal and if they are willing to go against the constitution. When I was in and even up to a few years ago I felt confident that military was our last defense against an president either last one or this one or in the future from using the military force citizens to obey Executive orders, laws and illegal detainment of citizens, not to mention the invasion of privacy of even our military and consider them dangerous because of their political leanings.
I am very concern about top leaders comments, and backing of very woke and left leaning/Marists type teachings

Response by SGT Philip Keys made Jul 25 at 2021 12:20 AM

2021-07-25T00:20:33-04:00

We're seeing more and more of this type of thing. Bad guys have zero consequences but law abiding Americans are having their rights stripped away a little every day.

Response by Cpl Mark McMiller made Jul 25 at 2021 8:49 AM

2021-07-25T08:49:50-04:00

The police crossed the line. They violated civil rights. And this isn't the first time from this police dept. They seem to think they are above the law and can do whatever they want without consequences because they know they can hide behind qualified immunity. They're a bunch of scumbag ass clowns.

Response by MSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2021 2:27 PM

2021-07-27T14:27:06-04:00

Well if he was told to stand back and stand by..he probably wouldn't have been tased...LOL

Response by CPL Douglas Chrysler made Jul 27 at 2021 4:31 PM

2021-07-27T16:31:35-04:00

No reason to have conflicting feelings.

Response by SPC Jasen E. made Jul 28 at 2021 10:29 PM

2021-07-28T22:29:10-04:00

From everything I have seen in the states I have lived that allow open carry, Arizona and Alabama, and countless states I have traveled in, carrying a firearm while protesting or even observing a protest, is a violation of law. You may not have a gun while protesting. Oftentimes, this prohibition even extends to those carrying with a concealed carry permit. It is also important to note, that whether or not the gun was a fake, it is still considered a firearm in the commission of a crime. ie. If you hold up a store clerk with a fake gun, you will absolutely be charged and convicted of armed robbery. Having a concealed carry permit, a wife who is a certified pistol instructor with the NRA, and wanting to always know explicitly what my rights are and are not when carrying a gun, I can say with conviction that the person carrying a fake gun and a protest sign did commit a crime by doing so.

Response by Bergman Oswell made Aug 6 at 2021 2:51 PM

2021-08-06T14:51:33-04:00

Police swear almost the same oath to the Constitution that US military personnel do. The line that was crossed is a very clear one, and it was the police that crossed it.

If simply possessing a holstered or slung firearm in a peaceful manner is grounds for an arrest, then every police officer and soldier in the nation could be legitimately arrested simply for possession of their issued weapon.

Response by 1SG Tom Carter made Aug 10 at 2021 12:21 PM

2021-08-10T12:21:49-04:00

I do say that the officers crossed the line absolutely, but even with that, a person cannot decide they are not under arrest, even if it is an improper arrest.

Response by PO1 Todd B. made Sep 17 at 2021 2:12 PM

2021-09-17T14:12:25-04:00

Texas needs to send in the Rangers and remove that entire department. I hope the guy sues the city for every penny they have.. Enough of this..

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Mar 7 at 2022 8:56 AM

2022-03-07T08:56:29-05:00

Growing up in San Antonio Texas during the 60s and 70s I learned that best way to deal with police is follow their directions and fight them in court. I live that way to this day. The street is not a court room where debate and legal arguments are held. Police are not lawyers and should not be expected to hold court in the street. I remember this incident and for me the SGM was just as wrong as the police.