Posted on Sep 22, 2020
I'm honestly very hurt and feel abandoned at this point and I really need some help. Am I being retaliated against?
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Hello, I'm really looking for some help from some senior leaders. I'm about to go to DTS and Legal to try and get some help but I'd like some other points of view, please. I'm an E5, I've been in the 82nd for two years. I joined as a SF Candidate and I went to ASAP while I was there, failed, my chain of command decided not to chapter me. I was given additional treatment which I was successful with and completed.
Two months ago, I had an incident where I was intoxicated, had been fighting with my wife over depression and other issues for days and the situation escalated and a firearm was involved. My counselors have considered it "fleeting thoughts of suicidal ideation" or so to speak.
I was supposed to deploy about a week after this incident. I was enrolled in ASAP again since there was alcohol in my system. But my CoC is down range and pursuing any means possible to Chapter me. I have a good record aside from my previous ASAP history, no negative counselings, its been more than 12 months since my last successful ASAP session. They have even gone to the lengths of basically asking me to get my own medical records from WOMACK and hand them over so they can attempt to chapter me for my failure three years ago, which to me sounds like they're trying to avoild HIPAA since they can request it themselves.
They have not been involved in my treatment process, neither has my Rear D Commander really, although he is trying to protect me as much as possible. My 1SG has been calling here from Iraq everyday, every other day to try and get this chapter going from any angle possible. It's to the point where I literally feel like I'm starting to be retaliated against for my treatment, which is actually going great, to finally talk about my depression and seeing how it affected my drinking, completely influenced by COVID and being home all the time playing house wife.
I called my 1SG a week after the incident, evem though I was already under my Rear D Commander, because I felt like I owed him that, that he would want to know what happened from me. But he didn't even ask. He just asked me if I was okay, if I was getting treatment and if I needed anything further at the moment. He even said "you don't owe me shit" which I thought was really rude.
But overall, I feel like I've had zero support from my CoC, I feel as if I'm being targeted, like they're completely against me. I've been given no support aside from my Rear D Commander and my OPS NCO who have been fighting tooth and nail for me and slowing down this process as much as possible. I feel like this sets a poor precidents for soldiers who need help because they may be chaptered for past discretions. Any help or insite would be greatly appreciated because I'm tired of fighting, I'm angry and I'm hurt. Thank you guys for your time. Please, please feel free to ask any questions. I know there was a lot of information.
Two months ago, I had an incident where I was intoxicated, had been fighting with my wife over depression and other issues for days and the situation escalated and a firearm was involved. My counselors have considered it "fleeting thoughts of suicidal ideation" or so to speak.
I was supposed to deploy about a week after this incident. I was enrolled in ASAP again since there was alcohol in my system. But my CoC is down range and pursuing any means possible to Chapter me. I have a good record aside from my previous ASAP history, no negative counselings, its been more than 12 months since my last successful ASAP session. They have even gone to the lengths of basically asking me to get my own medical records from WOMACK and hand them over so they can attempt to chapter me for my failure three years ago, which to me sounds like they're trying to avoild HIPAA since they can request it themselves.
They have not been involved in my treatment process, neither has my Rear D Commander really, although he is trying to protect me as much as possible. My 1SG has been calling here from Iraq everyday, every other day to try and get this chapter going from any angle possible. It's to the point where I literally feel like I'm starting to be retaliated against for my treatment, which is actually going great, to finally talk about my depression and seeing how it affected my drinking, completely influenced by COVID and being home all the time playing house wife.
I called my 1SG a week after the incident, evem though I was already under my Rear D Commander, because I felt like I owed him that, that he would want to know what happened from me. But he didn't even ask. He just asked me if I was okay, if I was getting treatment and if I needed anything further at the moment. He even said "you don't owe me shit" which I thought was really rude.
But overall, I feel like I've had zero support from my CoC, I feel as if I'm being targeted, like they're completely against me. I've been given no support aside from my Rear D Commander and my OPS NCO who have been fighting tooth and nail for me and slowing down this process as much as possible. I feel like this sets a poor precidents for soldiers who need help because they may be chaptered for past discretions. Any help or insite would be greatly appreciated because I'm tired of fighting, I'm angry and I'm hurt. Thank you guys for your time. Please, please feel free to ask any questions. I know there was a lot of information.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 22
I've read ASAP failure, alcoholic situations, domestic violence/abuse. What I haven't read is behavioral health assistance/mental health evaluation.
The very fact that the above listed situations SHOULD have gotten you chaptered right off the bat. The fact that your Command DIDN'T chapter you...that says a lot on what your command thought of you.
No wonder why you didn't deploy. You are an EXTREME safety risk for yourself and for those around you if you had gone down range. Your 1SG downrange is not being rude nor cold. You belong to the Rear Detachment. To which you are getting support from your CoC. Because, again, the Rear D IS your CoC. Other than asking you your status and asking the Rear D what the status is, there is nothing else your deployed 1SG can do.
To put it bluntly, you fucked up. Now, in order to fix the fuck up, you need to OWN UP TO the fuck up. That means getting help. Help with mental health. Help with addiction. Help with anger. You need counseling all the way around.
Your Command is not picking on you. What they are doing is delaying a process that should have been completed months ago. Just the domestic violence with a firearm alone is enough to kick you out. If you were arrested for domestic violence that involved a firearm....you don't even need to be tried and convicted....that arrest right there violates the Lautenberg Amendment. Which means you can no longer touch a weapon for the military. Which means your time in the military is nigh.
The very fact that the above listed situations SHOULD have gotten you chaptered right off the bat. The fact that your Command DIDN'T chapter you...that says a lot on what your command thought of you.
No wonder why you didn't deploy. You are an EXTREME safety risk for yourself and for those around you if you had gone down range. Your 1SG downrange is not being rude nor cold. You belong to the Rear Detachment. To which you are getting support from your CoC. Because, again, the Rear D IS your CoC. Other than asking you your status and asking the Rear D what the status is, there is nothing else your deployed 1SG can do.
To put it bluntly, you fucked up. Now, in order to fix the fuck up, you need to OWN UP TO the fuck up. That means getting help. Help with mental health. Help with addiction. Help with anger. You need counseling all the way around.
Your Command is not picking on you. What they are doing is delaying a process that should have been completed months ago. Just the domestic violence with a firearm alone is enough to kick you out. If you were arrested for domestic violence that involved a firearm....you don't even need to be tried and convicted....that arrest right there violates the Lautenberg Amendment. Which means you can no longer touch a weapon for the military. Which means your time in the military is nigh.
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SSG (Join to see)
Beat me to it Brother...this also bars many Government Jobs as Lautenberg is forever.
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SPC(P) (Join to see) They aren't picking on you. I have seen soldiers separated for all those things, just depends on which chapter they are going to use.
AR600-85 Army Substance Abuse Program Para 1-7
"(5) Soldiers who fail to participate adequately in or to respond successfully to rehabilitation will be processed for administrative separation and not be provided another opportunity for rehabilitation except under the most extraordi- nary circumstances, as determined by the clinical director (CD) in consultation with the unit commander. In addition to existing separation policies for alcohol or other drug abuse rehabilitation failures, Soldiers with a subsequent alcohol or drug-related incident of misconduct at any time during the 12-month period following successfulcompletion of the ASAP or during the 12-month period following removal from the program, for any reason, will be
processed for separation as an alcohol or drug abuse rehabilitation failure."
So exact timing will be key. Less stringent would be to Chapter you under a chapter 13 or 14 for a pattern of misconduct. especially since ASAP was used by the command to rehabilitate you. You are having issues with adhereing to a military life style. The fact a fire arm was involved in a domestic altercation can also get you flagged and barred for a Lautenberg Amendment, which prevents the military from issuing you a weapon...kind of tough to be a soldier when you can't access your assigned weapon. A civil or military misdemeanor conviction of domestic violence/battery.
Go to TDS. Find out what is what. I'm not asking you for clarifying information because it doesn't matter what I think. It matters what your chain of command does and what the CJA and TDS think.
AR635-200 paras:
1-16a
5-13
5-17
Ch10, don't know if you are being charged for the purpose of a Summary, Special, or General Court Martial. This could be where Lautenberg comes in.
Ch 13-2a
Ch14-2a
Ch14-12a
Ch14-12b
The command has wide discretion on how to separate you. Not sure what the medical records is all about. If the Commander is going to do a 5-13 or 5-17 they refer you to a mental health provider for the express purpose of evaluating you for Chapter.
AR600-85 Army Substance Abuse Program Para 1-7
"(5) Soldiers who fail to participate adequately in or to respond successfully to rehabilitation will be processed for administrative separation and not be provided another opportunity for rehabilitation except under the most extraordi- nary circumstances, as determined by the clinical director (CD) in consultation with the unit commander. In addition to existing separation policies for alcohol or other drug abuse rehabilitation failures, Soldiers with a subsequent alcohol or drug-related incident of misconduct at any time during the 12-month period following successfulcompletion of the ASAP or during the 12-month period following removal from the program, for any reason, will be
processed for separation as an alcohol or drug abuse rehabilitation failure."
So exact timing will be key. Less stringent would be to Chapter you under a chapter 13 or 14 for a pattern of misconduct. especially since ASAP was used by the command to rehabilitate you. You are having issues with adhereing to a military life style. The fact a fire arm was involved in a domestic altercation can also get you flagged and barred for a Lautenberg Amendment, which prevents the military from issuing you a weapon...kind of tough to be a soldier when you can't access your assigned weapon. A civil or military misdemeanor conviction of domestic violence/battery.
Go to TDS. Find out what is what. I'm not asking you for clarifying information because it doesn't matter what I think. It matters what your chain of command does and what the CJA and TDS think.
AR635-200 paras:
1-16a
5-13
5-17
Ch10, don't know if you are being charged for the purpose of a Summary, Special, or General Court Martial. This could be where Lautenberg comes in.
Ch 13-2a
Ch14-2a
Ch14-12a
Ch14-12b
The command has wide discretion on how to separate you. Not sure what the medical records is all about. If the Commander is going to do a 5-13 or 5-17 they refer you to a mental health provider for the express purpose of evaluating you for Chapter.
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LTC Jason Mackay
Get help. Use the help. Understand that the CoC now has someone that they can't deploy, more over, someone that is a risk to themselves and others hence why you are not deployed. Your 1SG did ask you if you were OK. They are downrange with all the down range burdens.
Ask yourself, honestly, if being home bound for COVID was that stressful, what are you going to do on a 20 man outpost in Iraq or Afghanistan, in contact all the time, for a year? Perhaps separating is for the best. ASAP is not intended to be a repetitive process. You have to get after the underlying issues.
Ask yourself, honestly, if being home bound for COVID was that stressful, what are you going to do on a 20 man outpost in Iraq or Afghanistan, in contact all the time, for a year? Perhaps separating is for the best. ASAP is not intended to be a repetitive process. You have to get after the underlying issues.
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SPC(P) (Join to see)
I've really appreciate the time and in depth reply that you submitted. I had previously looked over the entirety of 635-200 and I just looked at all the chapters that you emphasized.
Is a pattern of misconduct valid if there have been no negative counseling? The only pattern of misconduct, that I can think of at least, is in my SUDCC records where it has my three attempts. I've never had a serious violation of any law, outside of my first incident at least which was purely accidental. I'm completely aware that it was my fault but I didn't consume copious amounts of alcohol out of disregard for UCMJ in either instance. Hell, the first time it was simply 4 IPAs and I accidentally blacked out since I hadn't drank in about 8 months. Immediately following that, it went down hill do to a divorce that I was going through and the environment that I was in while going through SUDCC.
I completely understand that it was completely my fault in the end though and I've owned up to every mistake that I've made in this uniform. I'm simply seeking answers and view points right now on this process Sir.
Thank you for your imput again.
Is a pattern of misconduct valid if there have been no negative counseling? The only pattern of misconduct, that I can think of at least, is in my SUDCC records where it has my three attempts. I've never had a serious violation of any law, outside of my first incident at least which was purely accidental. I'm completely aware that it was my fault but I didn't consume copious amounts of alcohol out of disregard for UCMJ in either instance. Hell, the first time it was simply 4 IPAs and I accidentally blacked out since I hadn't drank in about 8 months. Immediately following that, it went down hill do to a divorce that I was going through and the environment that I was in while going through SUDCC.
I completely understand that it was completely my fault in the end though and I've owned up to every mistake that I've made in this uniform. I'm simply seeking answers and view points right now on this process Sir.
Thank you for your imput again.
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LTC Jason Mackay
SPC(P) (Join to see) you went to ASAP so you were counseled at least once, not a requirement. These aren’t Douglas factors.
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I was an Air Force Commander for six years. I would not deploy you and you would get chaptered. You had more than your share of chances in a short time. Take advantage of the counseling, any transition support, figure out what you want to do as a civilian because you are going to be one.
Alcohol, violence and a weapon. A lethal combination for a career. Sounds like you might have eventually made a good soldier, but I think you are done.
Alcohol, violence and a weapon. A lethal combination for a career. Sounds like you might have eventually made a good soldier, but I think you are done.
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