I'm looking for the regulation or TC on MPs standing at attention or parade rest while under arms on duty. Which TC/FM should I check?

2017-09-27T14:56:53-04:00

So far I have checked through STP 21-24-SMCT, TC 7-21.13, Military Police Leader's Handbook FM 3-19.4 and Soldier's Manual MOS 31B STP 19-31B1-SM.

I am all well aware I need to salute an officer as per customs and courtesies. Yes on occasion the salute may be delayed as we deal with an immediate situation that makes it impractical/unsafe. The question I've been looking at is while on duty as an MP, is there an FM, AR or TC that specifically addresses MPs and if we are to stand at attention or parade rest while talking to an officer or NCO while under arms and on duty.

For officer safety, I believe the answer is no, my squad leader also agrees with this assessment. I've heard other NCOs use the reason that we do not stand at parade rest/at ease or attention is for officer safety while we've been down here as well. We have not been questioned about this where we are after giving the answer that we are not standing at attention/parade rest because of officer safety and weapons retention. I have yet to have any higher ranks upset because of this, but wanted to find what written doctrine there is on this if any.

I have always been taught to salute, but not stand at attention or parade rest while on duty if we are under arms on duty as MPs, but after training today we decided to look into this a bit more and check for actual written doctrine/FMs that give clarity if there is anything specific to MPs on duty for this. Keeping in mind I did not see anything in either the MP leader's handbook or the MP handbook addressing this. It may be possible I was looking using the wrong search words.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2017 5:40 PM

2017-09-27T17:40:31-04:00

I've tried to do some research on this for you, and I can't come up w/ anything. A bunch of manuals on drill, and even your post on Rallypoint...lol. I think your situation is perfect. When explained, it is not questioned. I would think that the base commander could also come up w/ a regulation regarding this so that it is down on paper - just in case you come across that one person (because we ALL know there is one somewhere) that will want to give you crap about it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2017 8:44 PM

2017-09-27T20:44:11-04:00

I've looked through every manual I have...and I'm at a schoolhouse teaching MP's....LOL! Can't find a thing. It's more than likely a base SOP...And in your case, a damn good one.

Response by SPC Brandon Israel made Sep 28 at 2017 1:45 PM

2017-09-28T13:45:40-04:00

U stand at attention to officers, unless its one that u pulled over. If its a traffic stop, after u get his/her ID, u say ma'am or sir and render aa life after the stop is done. U render s salute if ur at the gate too. It was easyervfor !e when I was an MP cuz u had the stickers on the front of ur so windshield. Blue for officers and red for enlisted. But in relation too standing at parade rest in front of an NCO, whether a Sgt or CSM, u do not have to. U render th

Response by SPC Brandon Israel made Sep 28 at 2017 1:47 PM

2017-09-28T13:47:21-04:00

That way I was taught too. I never stood a parade rest in front of an NCO unless they were my own and under guard themselves. I went to attention to salute an officer after a traffic stop or at the gates.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 2 at 2017 3:15 PM

2017-10-02T15:15:54-04:00

All of my sources report that this is normal Provost Marshal guidance (a.k.a. common sense officer safety) versus regulation.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 3 at 2017 9:45 AM

2017-10-03T09:45:16-04:00

Under arms, MP authority > rank because of safety. Just because someone is a SGM or COL doesn't make them any less likely to get stupid when faced with detainment.

That being said, don't get belligerent with anyone that outranks you. If they start demanding the customs and courtesies, get your on duty chain on scene and involved.

Those are the things I was taught.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 3 at 2017 7:46 PM

2017-10-03T19:46:29-04:00

Under arms only allows you to wear head gear while inside. At no point does under arms mean that you forgo military customs and courtesy and absolute military discipline. If you need an AR or any other form of rule, doctrine, ALARAC to tell you that; you need to check yourself. As an MP you should be the absolute most disciplined Soldier standing. You police soldiers. Lock that body smartly and CM.

Response by SFC Sam Koutouzakis made Oct 10 at 2017 12:10 PM

2017-10-10T12:10:43-04:00

Can't even believe this is an issue. How could standing at attention or parade rest be, "an officer safety issue" when MPs are "soldiers first", get it?

Suggest you check with your platoon sergeant.

Response by 1SG Aaron Martin made Oct 12 at 2017 8:45 AM

2017-10-12T08:45:43-04:00

In the Customs and Courtesy pub it mentions that a Soldier is required to render a hand salute blah blah blah unless under arms or when not practical i.e. arms full of equip, etc etc. You're looking in the wrong place with the STP 21-24-SMCT, TC 7-21.13, Military Police Leader's Handbook FM 3-19.4 and Soldier's Manual MOS 31B STP 19-31B1-SM, etc. Check the Customs and Courtesies manual.

Response by SFC James Heath made Oct 15 at 2017 4:22 PM

2017-10-15T16:22:27-04:00

Your duty requirements dictate what position you are required to be in while on duty. Don’t try the outhouse lawyer routene to get out of performing your duties.

Response by SPC Daren Rowen made Oct 16 at 2017 4:54 PM

2017-10-16T16:54:03-04:00

As I was made to understand. As on duty MPs we had the authority of the post commander, and as he/she was the ranking officer of the installation by extension we could deviate from this particular custom

Response by SSG Scott Stinson made Oct 17 at 2017 12:02 PM

2017-10-17T12:02:37-04:00

You salute the officer after handing him his ticket at the end of the traffic stop.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2017 12:21 AM

2017-11-04T00:21:20-04:00

the answer is NO you do not stand at attention or parade rest while in the performance of your military duties you do salute but you do not hold it to wait for the salute to be returned you remain polite and respectful. This is what is taught in AIT. Officer Safety trumps standing like a target. (That being said if you are in the Company Area or the PMO and a senior MP is talking to you and you are not in danger....id say yes) when on duty you are only answerable to those in you DIRECT chain of command. Patrol Supervisor, MP Duty Officer, Provost SGT, PM...(1SG and Commander if your unit is supporting a PMO)

Yor still refer to everyone as direct in 600-20

Response by SGT Christopher Lachcik made Nov 4 at 2017 8:37 AM

2017-11-04T08:37:52-04:00

Wouldn't it be in the customs fm and there's a section when to salute

Response by SGT Christopher Lachcik made Nov 4 at 2017 8:40 AM

2017-11-04T08:40:16-04:00

AR 600-25

Response by SGT Christopher Lachcik made Nov 4 at 2017 8:41 AM

2017-11-04T08:41:48-04:00

You do salute when doing gate guard at posts stateside and depending on post regulations, OCONUS. If I run plates during a stop and I get the persons rank and name, I would, showing honor, salute them if they are an officer.

Response by SPC Aj Bohall made Nov 22 at 2017 3:31 PM

2017-11-22T15:31:48-05:00

I was an MP in the situation dictates your movement if you’re actually on duty in responding to a call or dealing with somebody you have to use your own judgment on this because your safety of the upmost importance but I do not believe there’s a regulation that dictates this

Response by SSG Ronald Colwell made Mar 28 at 2019 5:10 AM

2019-03-28T05:10:14-04:00

I’ve always been told that while working the road, you are a representative of the provost marshals office, specifically the PM, usually a MAJ or LTC. So theoretically, you are them. I’ve had SFC try to put me at parade rest on traffic stops as an E4 and E5, and I disregarded. They complained and were to told to pound sand... also had a COL that acted a fool, I had never met him before but was well aware of his position and job, he came into the MP station, while I was the desk sergeant at o dark 30, with a severe attitude and trying to rip my head off. I stood up out of the comfy leather desk chair, and said “sir, I suggest you think about what your doing right now, and turn around and walk out the door, take a deep breath and come back in and introduce yourself in a calm and professional manner or I will charge you with disorderly conduct and conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman. Then your boss 3 star will have to come get you. Your choice” he shut his mouth turned walked out and came back in very well behaved. I said was that so hard. I had the backing of the PM and had no issues with further contacts later on with him. He was an a*^h%%^