"I will always place their needs above my own..." NCO Creed. Can you take care of your Soldiers best without taking care of yourself first?

SSG Robert Burns — Fri, 30 Jan 2015 16:05:51 -0500

I'm looking for arguments either way. Do you support this phrase in the creed? Can you care for your Soldiers better if you take care of yourself better? What say you?

Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Jan 30 at 2015 6:14 PM

1SG Steven Stankovich — Fri, 30 Jan 2015 18:14:57 -0500

Interesting question SSG Robert Burns. I make it a habit to forego voting, but I enjoy responding. Placing the needs of my Soldiers above my own is a charge that is near and dear to my heart as a Noncommissioned Officer. I think that it is important to understand that there is a difference between "needs" and "wants or likes or nice to haves." I strive to do always to what I can to make sure that my Soldiers have what they need. That may be in the form of opportunities, knowledge, a POC, or to be quite frank, the hard truth when needed.

When it comes to taking care of yourself, I think it is equally important. However, it should not be at the expense of the needs of your Soldiers. We as Leaders often have opportunities or abilities to take care of ourselves that our Soldiers do not have. This does not mean that we do not provide for the needs of our Soldiers. This simply means that we take care of ourselves through different avenues than we may provide for the needs of our Soldiers.

A simple example would be that if my Soldier is financially irresponsible, their immediate need is to provide them the means to be fiscally responsible. That may come in the form of a consultation with their bank, a budget class, or maybe an AER loan. Taking care of yourself first is applying the experience that you already possess in financial management to ensure that you are sound in your decisions. Did taking care of yourself take away from providing for your Soldiers needs? No. It complimented them.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 6:16 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 30 Jan 2015 18:16:13 -0500

I think you can take care of yourself AFTER taking care of your Soldiers, SSG Robert Burns. Of course you have to take care of yourself, and there are times when you will come before your Soldiers, but for the most part and for most needs, I think Soldiers can come first and you can take care of your own needs afterwards.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 7:39 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 30 Jan 2015 19:39:18 -0500

Being a selfless leader allows us to see the issues going on with our soldiers and go above and beyond to fix it and then you can focus on yourself. I believe by taking care of our troops we are taking care of ourselves and if you have personal issues going on, you will find time to also take care of that.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jan 30 at 2015 9:45 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Fri, 30 Jan 2015 21:45:51 -0500

There's a mental exercise we used to use for young Marines long ago. Don't know if they still do.

It's you (Senior man) and two other Marines (junior to you). You have 1x MRE (only food), and plenty of water. You are stranded, and you need to get all of you to safety.

How do you split the food?

I've heard a lot of answers to this scenario before.

a) Split it 3 ways. You are after all a team, and the weakest link is the strongest link.

b) Split it 2 ways. Give it to the junior Marines.

c) Give it to the junior most Marine. You always make sure the junior Marines are fed first.

One of the best ones, and the one I tend to like the best however is:

d) Break up the meal. Main meal (Protein) goes to you. It will help you think and make decisions. Everything else (Carbs) goes to the junior Marines, which will give them energy. The overall calories should be 'about' evenly divided.

So what has this got to do with the NCO Creed?

Your needs are THEIR needs. They need you thinking clearly. They need you strong. If you make yourself a weak link, you hurt them.

Take too much on, and you take yourself out of the fight. The beauty of a chain of command, and the military structure is that we can delegate. You don't have to do everything. The entire command structure is actually built on that concept.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Jan 31 at 2015 7:56 AM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Sat, 31 Jan 2015 07:56:55 -0500

I voted for the first option -- but just to clarify, I looked at this in an absolute sense. If a leader's professional and personal life is all messed up, then in my opinion that leader is less likely to be able to take the BEST care possible of his/her subordinates. The leader should have his (or her) life squared away. Otherwise, that leader is prone to have his mind elsewhere at times -- not necessarily all the time, but frequently enough to where it would take away from providing the BEST leadership possible for those subordinates.

Response by PO2 Stephen Brinkley (Scott) made Jan 31 at 2015 7:11 PM

PO2 Stephen Brinkley (Scott) — Sat, 31 Jan 2015 19:11:56 -0500

Great question SSG Robert Burns!!! I know that when I was going through my separation with my first wife, I was brain dead and worthless. It didn't last long and thankfully I had a great 1st class and an even better Chief. Once I got my shit in order I went right back to be a good leader, trying to become a great leader.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2015 8:50 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 31 Jan 2015 20:50:15 -0500

First there's basic needs--and seeing to yours should not inhibit seeing to theirs--getting enough food and sleep, for example, but if its a question between them getting it or you, then its theirs.

Then there's career matters. Who would, as an example, pester their rater about their own NCOER without first making certain that your troops' weren't overdue first?

I think, if it's important to you, it's important to them is the maxim to keep in mind.

Response by SGT Tyler G. made Feb 23 at 2015 3:59 AM

SGT Tyler G. — Mon, 23 Feb 2015 03:59:32 -0500

My answer is two fold. I'd first argue that if you don't know how to take care of yourself, then how can you effectively take care of your soldiers. However, you should also always place your soldiers needs above your own.

Response by MSgt Michelle Mondia made Feb 23 at 2015 9:53 AM

MSgt Michelle Mondia — Mon, 23 Feb 2015 09:53:40 -0500

If I'm cold or hungry or tired I know damn well my troops are. So at that point you take care of them...and you eat, sleep and get cold weather gear issued last (or whatever the need is). After they're good to go you can relax. Because ultimately if you put people before yourself you got a whole group looking out for you know. If you don't your likely going to have one or two individuals who didn't get squared away (for whatever reason) and then their problems and attitudes can start to effect moral very quickly. So yes, it's important not to be self serving and quite obvious when you are.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Feb 23 at 2015 9:58 AM

SSG Robert Burns — Mon, 23 Feb 2015 09:58:08 -0500

I need to see more answers to this question. Get to work people!

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Feb 23 at 2015 10:07 AM

CPT Zachary Brooks — Mon, 23 Feb 2015 10:07:25 -0500

Secure your own mask before securing that of the child.

You have to have your own house clean before you can feasibly help others.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2015 3:04 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Feb 2015 15:04:47 -0500

My belief is that if you take care of your Soldier's needs, overall your problems are less. There are a couple of reasons for this. If it is an issue that can be solved by attending a simple class because they've never had experience in the issue (i.e. budgeting,) you can ensure they are signed up for a class at ACS to resolve the issue. This saves problems for you overall. If they don't go to the class or learn the skill, they are likely to overspend, and that leads to phone calls from higher commands.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2018 11:11 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Dec 2018 11:11:21 -0500

We strive not to promote those who can not take care of themselves. This task must be learned and taught to E-1 through E-4. An E-5 is faced with balancing these two for the first time. If he/she learned how to take care of themselves at lower rank and grade, then this will primarily be a focus on addressing the needs of others. Your soldiers will be the focus.