I would like to address the "White Elephant" in the room; PTSD and the being awarded the Purple Heart

SFC Keith Frain — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 04:15:02 -0500

The topic has been addressed over the latter half of our involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan; never really gaining merit or substantial backing by the DOD, or within the Federal Govt. It continues to resurface from time to time, mostly from a local news reporter, or following a documentary that covers PTSD.

NOTE: Given the professionalism shown on RallyPoint, I feel that my personal experiences are worth the risk of "putting myself out there."

Nonetheless, I have always stayed silent when this topic came up for discussion; I will explain in a moment. Having been deployed to both Iraq, and Afghanistan, with "eyes-on", and first hand experience of what combat and war feels like; I can tell you that I will never be the same.

As to why I stayed silent whenever this topic came up...to be honest, after my last tour in Afghanistan, I came back to a living nightmare; for almost two years my life was destroyed.

Of all the WIA that I worked on, and the KIA's we lost, I always mourned them in my own way during the deployments. I admit now that I didn't deal with any of it properly, I just pushed it somewhere else.

My last tour in Afghanistan was my breaking point. I lost a very close friend during a suicide attack; the casualties were immense, and the KIA's we sustained were many. I was fine, all of the medics were working as best they could to save as many as we could...hours had gone by, loading the WIA's on the birds, taking care of the walking wounded, etc. As the Senior medic and NCO, I was ordered to attend to the KIA's, try to identify, and prepare them for pickup. I didn't think anything of it...I just did what needed to be done.

I don't need to tell you details to make my point, but it was here that I found my friend. It was a complete life changing moment; one that caused a slow decline into a very dark place. That was only 4 months into that tour...

When I returned home, my command became increasingly worried about some of the issues that were quickly arising with me, so I agreed to go talk to someone. After multiple sessions, I was told that I have severe PTSD and informed that the Army has a limited timeframe as to how long a Soldier can stay on AD status once diagnosed; however, if the Soldiers PTSD can become manageable, the Soldier can continue their service.

Months later, it was suggested that I accept the Commands recommendation to start the MEB process...

My story isn't unfamiliar, and I only divulged enough to give brevity to "PTSD" and what it can do to someone who had a great career.

I feel that today, the (long-overdue) acknowledgment and services geared towards helping those who suffer from PTSD are immensely gratifying, e.g. The VA already pays a SM for having PTSD, there are a number of programs that help SMs diagnosed with PTSD, Hotlines, etc.

Our military has dedicated an immense amount of resources, education, time and money into the Mental Health system in order to deal with the overwhelming amount of PTSD cases that are present throughout all the services.

What more could someone ask for?

Bottom line, my stance...I am not an advocate for the Purple Heart to be awarded to those who suffer from PTSD. What do you think?

Response by PO3 Shaun Taylor made Nov 18 at 2014 4:23 AM

PO3 Shaun Taylor — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 04:23:01 -0500

I don't think it should be given based on having PTSD alone, but I do think something should be done to acknowledge those who have it. Especially if they're forced to end their military career because of it.

Response by PO1 John Pokrzywa made Nov 18 at 2014 4:36 AM

PO1 John Pokrzywa — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 04:36:12 -0500

I have a different view of things.
First the medal. If someone has severe PTSD requiring treatment, and did not before combat, that's a mental wound inflicted by enemy action. Availability of treatment for an injury doesn't mean the injury never happened. The argument can be made for a purple heart, therefore, but on a case by case basis.
2nd. Availability of care. This is a double edged sword. My own combat experience is nothing so traumatic as your own, but I have seen things one can't unsee, also. Perhaps it affects me some, but as long as the VA insists on taking rights (and clearance and any chance at a job while armed) from people being treated for PTSD, I'll never seek help unless I go to a very very dark place one day, and it becomes worth the risk of losing rights. "We'll help, but you'll never have a good job again" doesn't exactly draw me to chat with them.

Response by SFC A.M. Drake made Nov 18 at 2014 4:47 AM

SFC A.M. Drake — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 04:47:59 -0500

I do think a person should be awarded for PTSD regarding combat period, however as someone stated already you earn the PH from injuries seen and unseen just my 2 cents. Thank you for your service

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2014 6:37 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 06:37:44 -0500

Interesting question... but there's a lot of nuances.

I think I came back with some type of PTSD, but not really "directly" because of what I saw in Afghanistan - more of a culmination of a number of events. In the 2 years before I deployed, I watched my younger brother die and my son was born dead. While in Afghanistan, I saw a lot of casualties, but it was just part of the job. Right at the end of my deployment however, there was a soldier who died who reminded me of my brother. When time of death was called, I had this crazy influx of emotions. It's been a year now - almost to the day - but it still sticks with me. Although I'd say I have some type of PTSD, it's more of a culmination of life events vs something that would deserve a purple heart.

Response by SFC Keith Frain made Nov 18 at 2014 6:47 AM

SFC Keith Frain — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 06:47:35 -0500

I have no choice but to tell PO1, that his comment completely grounded me. Your right my brother, before our 14 year war commitment started, as my profile stated... I was every bit of what the Army was looking for and expected me to be... however, I can't hold the Army accountable because of my, (then volunteering for everything, Army pride stood for), I had knowingly met my arch nemesis. And this once devoted Soldier... lost the ability to maintain the course.
I will give everyone any information about my career to back up what I am going to say... I volunteered for everything, I wanted to go to every war, I wanted to make a difference, I knew the risks of War... but I just felt like I belonged in those types of situation.

When the suicide event happened, and all the dead were laid out... as well as my friend... everything became very personal. I lost the ability to sweep it under the rug.. ..I became very afraid for my life and started to slowly question what I was doing, I started to withdraw... but I had a mission, and although fear was taking a toll on me, I knew that I couldn't show weakness, nor let my command know that their Super Soldier was slowly losing my grip on our mission and whether all those who died were worth it.... I tried to fix myself, so I could continue our mission. Again, it wasn't until I arrived in-country....that I couldn't keep the facade going any longer.

Response by SSG(P) Matthew Bisbee made Dec 2 at 2014 9:54 AM

SSG(P) Matthew Bisbee — Tue, 02 Dec 2014 09:54:25 -0500

I am a 100% P & T disabled vet (PTSD) according to the VA. This said, I can see that the PH could be warranted in some cases. I don't see that it would ever happen. With the number of service members being diagnosed with PTSD, it is a numbers thing and boils down to money and policy. The DOD has refused to authorize a Cold War Service Medal because it would cost too much to issue to all of the millions of cold war era vets. So too would it cost too much to issue the PH to 1/4 of all deployed service members returning from Irag and Afghanistan, not to mention the Vietnam vets that have been ignored for so long. I realize from personal experience that PTSD can be just as devastating to someone's life as I imagine the impact of losing a limb would. I just don't see the feasibility of awarding the PH for PTSD (as much as many vets diagnosed with PTSD deserve on). Stay tough and keep fighting. As Winston Churchill said, "Never give up, never surrender."

Response by GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad made Apr 11 at 2015 10:47 AM

GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad — Sat, 11 Apr 2015 10:47:44 -0400

I agree with you SFC Keith Frain, I do not think that the PH should be awarded for PTSD alone.

Response by COL Ted Mc made Apr 11 at 2015 12:11 PM

COL Ted Mc — Sat, 11 Apr 2015 12:11:10 -0400

[1] I agree that PTSD shouldn't warrant the Purple Heart.

[2] The military should do more for those with PTSD.

[3] People have to realize that there does not have to be a "defining moment" incident in order for a person to suffer from PTSD - a lengthy enough series of continued stress can do the trick just as well.

[4] You don't have to be "in combat" to develop PTSD.

Response by SGT Josheua Cooke made Oct 20 at 2015 3:34 PM

SGT Josheua Cooke — Tue, 20 Oct 2015 15:34:56 -0400

I can see how this keeps being brought up. For a very long time the order of the Purple Heart was to be given for injury received through enemy action. With the onset and formal acceptance of PTSD as being a mental injury sustained through enemy action, I can appreciate why some might want the definition to be broadened to encompass ALL injuries.

I personally feel that the Purple Heart does not make sense as an award seeing as one needs to be in the wrong place at the right time in order to be eligible for one. I was personally poisoned by the contents of an IED, med evac'd for a week, that has had a lasting effect of migraines, short term memory issues and light sensitivity. But because this did not occur as a direct result of an enemy combatant, I did not receive this award.

Response by Vicki Johnson made Oct 14 at 2017 2:03 PM

Vicki Johnson — Sat, 14 Oct 2017 14:03:36 -0400

I was a long time civilian nurse and was sleeping in my bed on my belly when a large multi felon fresh out of joint buff broke in through back door, attacked me sitting on lower back. Both my arms were bruised deeply from shoulders to wrists that lasted 2 months. He put his arm around my neck and choked me out..then robbed me. I woke suddenly in am.. panicked. Terrified of how I feel and lack of memory I can see evidence of the robbery. I can't at that time remember anything clearly enough to make a thought. I saw 4 Drs before I was able to give a police report. No justice! 10 months later had broken left wrist. Needed few repairs to exterior of my house to renew house insurance. Allowed "friend's" son to move in to make repairs and help me in exchange for room and board. D-Day friend, son and his girlfriend drugged my sweet tea and I was knocked out for over 5hrs.. an hour after I'd awakened and planned to wash clothès..and was out faster than I ever recall doing! I awoke 5hrs later to explosion blowing out and disintegrating kitchen doors. Smoke alarms never went off. My dog and cat were dead each side of me! My guests were cooking meth in kitchen and had explosion! They chose to run out the front door and left me drugged in bed..thank God for waking me to run out! Fireman said I'd only had approx 1 minute left in there. My throat nearly closed with swelling, was intubated and flown to burn center and kept in coma then awakened to a nightmare never imagined. I'm still paying off bills! Can't sleep since both happened while I was and get a couple hrs but usually when daylight and no longer dream since I don't reach rem sleep. I'm hypervigalent to touch, sounds, feelings or disturbance in the force. Àgain no justice! I'm sure military treatment is much better than the care I received! I wasn't even advised to speak to victims' advocate out of prosecutors office and knew nothing of this service. I feel I'm in a hole of quicksand and can't figure a way out of this Hotel California nightmare! I've been hurt since badly by people who pour salt in my wounds and very very few have expressed compassion or have in any way tried to help. It's a cold cruel world not only for the enlisted who maybe could understand the risks more and better deal with consequences! I can't imagine being me again and am not that fond of this wuss occupying my space!

Response by SFC Michael D. made May 21 at 2019 7:02 PM

SFC Michael D. — Tue, 21 May 2019 19:02:06 -0400

Do you consider it a wound or a condition? Yes we suffer from it and I definitely appreciate the pay I get because of it but I’m mixed on the Purple Heart part of it. I’ve known people who have received one for a scratch. I’ve also seen the Bronze star abused. In the end do the metals really matter? My disability check suits me just fine.

Response by A1C Riley Sanders made Oct 7 at 2019 9:34 AM

A1C Riley Sanders — Mon, 07 Oct 2019 09:34:56 -0400

Severe PTSD or traumatic PTSD the Honor in you may say no to the PH however the level of your PTSD will certainly over ride your own diagnosis which is severe , The PTSD IS YET to be awarded the PH however some day the Doctors Diagnosis of this wound of the mind will be the deciding factor, PTSD in one that never really leaves but is tucked away only to make its evil known now and then, the VA has several treatments that have proven successful in helping deal with PTSD.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2019 11:36 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Dec 2019 11:36:28 -0500

I see that I am a late addition to this thread, but I will comment anyway.
I do not think PTSD is an acceptable sole reason for award of the Purple Heart, and the reason I think that as a recipient of a PH and someone with significant PTSD is that the PH MEANS something. Much like a CIB or a star on your jump wings, it means that something fired by the enemy struck you, and you left blood or more on the ground on which your country told you to defend.
There is a spot on the ground in West Mosul that is consecrated with my blood, along with the blood of two men who paid the ultimate price and two more who will be forever altered. I was the "lucky" one who got up and kept going.
Yet, there is a piece of my soul I left behind in a more nebulous place in Iraq, or maybe Afghanistan, or maybe somewhere in East Africa. That part that made me myself. That my ex-wife loved. That believed in more than just what I could see and prove. I don't know whether I will ever see that part of me again, or whether I will be reunited with it in the afterlife.
But no medal or recognition could even begin to replace what is gone. Look after people like me, or ones that have it worse or better. Don't drug us up, or treat us like lepers. Get us the care we need. That is all I ask of the country that I gave so much to, without question and without regret.

Response by SGT Kevin Hughes made Dec 11 at 2019 12:52 PM

SGT Kevin Hughes — Wed, 11 Dec 2019 12:52:56 -0500

I am not capable of responding to this thread in any way. I will say this, this thread is covered with Heroes (male and female), courage, kindness, and hope. I read every single post in this thread- and wisdom is as common as courage. God Bless every single one of you.