If a soldier fails his APFT and is flagged, but was never counseled by the CO or his first line within 3 days, is the flag valid?

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Aug 2018 14:59:37 -0400

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Aug 7 at 2018 3:29 PM

SGT Joseph Gunderson — Tue, 07 Aug 2018 15:29:39 -0400

https://www.ncosupport.com/files/ar600_8_2_flags.pdf

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Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2018 3:30 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Aug 2018 15:30:45 -0400

If a soldier fails a record apft, and the conditions were valid, then the flag is valid. Sure, maybe their leadership failed to take some appropriate steps, but it doesn't invalidate the fact that the soldier failed in the first place.

Response by SSG David McPherson made Aug 7 at 2018 3:32 PM

SSG David McPherson — Tue, 07 Aug 2018 15:32:21 -0400

There is no guideline, however IAW AR 600-8-2 SM should be counseled within 2 days of infraction. So the answer to your question is yes the flag is still valid

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2018 3:59 PM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Aug 2018 15:59:27 -0400

Thanks! I have a soldier who keeps asking me this but I have no idea how to answer it.

Response by SPC John Ray made Aug 7 at 2018 7:37 PM

SPC John Ray — Tue, 07 Aug 2018 19:37:23 -0400

If you fail your pt test it should remained flagged until you retake it. And your command should have a time frame in which you retake. Don't fail your APFT.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2018 9:19 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Aug 2018 21:19:43 -0400

Show the Soldier paragraph 2-5 of AR 600-8-2.

2–5. Authentication Unless otherwise specified in this regulation, only commanding officers, commandants, an officer/civilian with specific authority to sign “For the Commander” (for example, BN or higher executive officer, deputy commander, or adjutant), or HQDA general officer principle staff heads or their designee may authenticate a DA Form 268. Failure to counsel within prescribed times does not invalidate the Flag. The Commander, HRC (AHRC–PDV–PS) will authenticate adverse action DA Forms 268 or investigation DA Forms 268 initiated by HQDA.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2018 11:25 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Aug 2018 23:25:01 -0400

Why is it that almost every time a Soldier gets flagged for APFT failure, they spend so much effort digging through the regs for some loophole reason to invalidate the decision? It's almost as if they spend more time on this then actually trying to improve their fitness level.

I am not saying that this is necessarily the case here...it is unclear if the OP is the Soldier that failed or just asking for another Soldier.

Oh and yes, the flag is valid, regardless of some of the leadership failures that are involved in the lack of counseling.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2018 11:03 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Aug 2018 11:03:12 -0400

Passing the AFPT is primary way to avoid this situation altogether. Every soldier knows that one of his/her primary responsibilities is to be able to pass a PT test. The fitness of each soldier contributes not only to survivability for the individual, but also the combat readiness of the unit. If the individual in question was concerned about the link between the flag and advancement, then he/she should have make every effort to ensure successful completion of the APFT. This is one of many ways that leaders set the example for their troops. In today's military, something as simple as an APFT failure can result in bar to re-enlistment or for an NCO result in automatic QMP. Encourage the individual to be ready at all times rather than wasting time trying to find a loophole in the regulation. This goes to the Army value of INTEGRITY. Sorry to take a hard line on this issue, but it is pretty cut and dry in my view.