If a Soldier fails to reach their potential, can you blame their leadership?

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 20 Sep 2023 20:55:39 -0400

Naturally, we are responsible for our own actions, or in this case, failure to act. Yet, isn't our organization more than just individuals achieving things for themselves? If so, what about the things Soldiers don't achieve?

Some of you know exactly what I'm getting at. But for others, let's think about it. Insert whatever you want; Marine, sailor, coastie, Airmen, or guardian and ask the question to yourself, If a Soldier fails to do something, who is at fault? In the same breath we answer the Soldier and their first line leader, nearly all of the time. This is barring the aggregious and completely unlawful. Let's agree that there are clearly some things solely attributed to one's own character.

That being said, as an all volunteer military we take in recruits and after a little bit of training we put them to work. But PVT Joe and PVT Jane don't know what they don't know. So let's run with that. If they never go to the board and aim for promotion, or if they never go to Airborne school because they were afraid they couldn't pass the 5-miler, then can we blame them and blame heir NCO? What about those on their left and right?

I hope we take this to heart. It's built into the very fabric of our organization. It's simple, but seemingly taken for granted. What do you think?

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2023 9:21 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 20 Sep 2023 21:21:47 -0400

1LT Private RallyPoint Member In the military and civilian world, good leaders will mentor their charges.

Response by COL Dan Ruder made Sep 21 at 2023 1:38 AM

COL Dan Ruder — Thu, 21 Sep 2023 01:38:40 -0400

I wish I had a nickel for every time I heard some senior oversimplify these situations and place blame solely on the leader. However, it is a shared responsibility: (1) The individual is expected to be personally accountable for their own development and performance; (2) Leaders are expected to set expectations, provide guidance, and offer mentorship. Even when these are on track, unit culture and cohesion can play a big role (those people on the left and right of the trooper role-modeling in presence and word what 'right' looks like).

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Sep 21 at 2023 8:02 AM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Thu, 21 Sep 2023 08:02:29 -0400

Honestly it depends on the context and of the specific details of the issue at hand. I have seen it both ways. If someone fragrantly breaks the rules and policies in place they have to take responsibility of their actions and decisions. I was at a unit once where a Marine was on restriction and confinement to the barracks for DUI. He convinced the Duty NCO to let him get in his car and run to the 7 day store on base. Instead the Marine drove off base. Went directly to a liquor store and proceeded to consume copious amounts of alcohol. He was picked up by MPs when he came back onto base and charged with a second DUI while still on restriction for his first one. I'm all for responsible leadership but this kid made his choices.

But on the other side I witnessed a failure of leadership when a Marine who was clearly depressed and struggling with his mental health wasn't given the proper consideration by his SNCO's. He was attached to an S4 section that at that time had 3 different E7s and assorted NCO's who did little to help this Marine. His peers kept mentioning something was up. Anyone in the barracks knew the guy was struggling. I knew the young Marine only in passing and I made comments to his leaders to keep an eye on him because he seemed down. I didn't know what his regular demeanor was but he definitely seemed a little blue. Cut to a few months later and the guy goes on a date with one of my female Marines. He wanted to continue the relationship and my Marine said no thank you. The guy couldn't take one more rejection and he snapped. He was an armorer and at close of business the next day he made a cryptic facebook post and left the armory with several weapons to include a couple M-4's. It was all discovered the next morning and the Unit goes into lockdown. I have my shop travel in threes just in case for safety when it was announced several firearms were unaccounted for. This was only a few years after the Fort Hood shooting and I feared the worst. His body was discovered by local authorities in La Jolla in the late afternoon. He shot himself in his car and people just thought he was a guy sleeping in his car until he started to show signs of death. This incident is clearly on the shoulders of the leadership. This was a young Marine who everyone could see was struggling but the leadership didn't act on it.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Sep 21 at 2023 7:25 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Thu, 21 Sep 2023 19:25:19 -0400

There is a shared responsibility.. The SM must put in the work, leaders provide the opportunity, training, motivation, and when needed find what THAT individual SM needs to get to the next level...
If the SM does all that on their own as much as they can, leaders just support, and guide.

Thats the positive approach...leaders also must recognize those who are unwilling or unable to put in the work,,,,,,for those leaders should be positively working to separate unwilling or unable or unwilling and unable

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Sep 21 at 2023 7:40 PM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Thu, 21 Sep 2023 19:40:06 -0400

Yes.... and no.
IMHO, we are not real great at evaluating potential. So if a Soldier fails to achieve, before we start looking at leadership failure, we first have to really TRULY look at potential. One of my favorite quips is think about how DUMB the average person is. Now realize half the people are even dumber than that.

Beyond potential is motivation. Yes, motivation is part and parcel of leadership. But external motivation will never be as potent as internal motivation. Hopefully, as leaders, we can find a way to tap that Soldier's internal motivation. But if the Soldier refuses to motivate, external motivation can only go so far.

So, yes. It is 100% the responsibility of not just first-line leaders, but also second-line leaders, who should be identifying and correcting first-line failures, to teach, coach, mentor, and motivate Soldier's to achieve their greatest potential. Not only that, they should be actively working to raise the bar on that potential and expand to new and greater capabilities.

But there are always limits to what lies within the realm of possibility.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Sep 22 at 2023 2:04 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Fri, 22 Sep 2023 14:04:21 -0400

Potential? Who knows what anyone's is or will be? Shared responsibility, I get it. But what are the realistic options? Given the Military is really a business, it's an investment and return consideration. The leadership expectations, guidance, training provided, etc. goes to a point where the SM needs to take the ball and run. So when leadership is blamed, would the option would be to force the SM to the point of failure, just to find out? Lots of time and money to do that for everyone deemed in need of it. Now we have a morale and maybe a headcase problem. In the promotion game, you have nominally performing grouped with the underperforming on paper. Top performing get promoted while good performing fight for the table scraps. So typically what's missing is the CoC correctly working the scenarios with the SMs and figuring out exit strategy for more than you think years before it goes really sour. I aggressively worked that in my Skipper jobs so the "hang around and good things will happen" mentality was driven out. BTW overall morale and productivity improved. Performers hate deadwood.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Sep 22 at 2023 4:50 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Fri, 22 Sep 2023 16:50:47 -0400

Leadership should provide opportunities for their employees (military and civilian) to improve and advance themselves. These opportunities need to be presented clearly and honestly. Line supervisors should present these opportunities to the employees they supervise. Also, more directly to individuals who have demonstrated the potential to benefit from the opportunity and have a chance to succeed.

The individual is responsible for seizing opportunities they believe will improve their life in some way by helping them reach their lgoals. But what if their goals are to do the minimum amount of work necessary to complete their assignment with no negative repercussions? Then you can offer the opportunity to be motivated to do more and better, but if they won't take it then offer the opportunity elsewhere.

Training opportunities are an example of this situation. A Commander might be notified of training opportunities leading to a valuable certification, academic advancement, promotion, or a special duty assignment. The Commander should pass these opportunities down the chain of command with instructions to make sure the line Soldiers see them along with instructions on how to apply within the unit. In addition to general announcements, the NCOs may choose to offer the training opportunity directly and personally to Soldiers they know could succeed.

Sometimes unit NCOs are told to "pick two" to fill a training quota. In this case they often must take to most available and qualified. Not always the best person to send, but almost an inevitability.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Sep 22 at 2023 9:09 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Fri, 22 Sep 2023 21:09:05 -0400

Lt, ever hear the old adage- "You can take a horse to water, but you can't make them drink!" Some folks are either too damn lazy or lack the work ethic to try to climb higher.

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Sep 24 at 2023 1:49 PM

MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P — Sun, 24 Sep 2023 13:49:45 -0400

Have you heard the old adage, "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink"?

Leaders have an onus to effectively mentor and direct those they are responsible for. They should both look "whole picture" and individually to see what guidance is needed most. Even then, if a particular individual lacks the requisite self-motivation and initiative, there is only so much a leader can do to see that individual rise to the top. Some people are content to live in "mediocrity".

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2023 12:37 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Sep 2023 12:37:23 -0400

I have literally crossed the threshold in my life I am executing far below my potential. Won't explain it, it doesn't matter.

There is the Army Standard, and then there is Special Forces Standard.

On the one hand I have had soldiers drag down my readiness metrics for the most mundane stuff, and then have had a future soldier show up to battel assembly and literally be the first one through the finish line during the 2 mile run (my thought was, dude what are you doing here as a PV1 Reservist future solider, then poof he was gone to BCT/AIT, and then next time I saw him on my UMR he was classified as a Cadet, OH NOW I GET IT, I knew this kid had his crap together).

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My threshold is meet the standard, and how can I help them meet that standard. There are many standards. One to enlist, one to stay enlisted, one to promote, one to become a WO or O, ect.....

I say this over and over, any 25yo PV1 standing in formation has the pathway open to them to make it to full COL. They have to want it. If all they aspire to is to be a perpetual SPC then there is nothing wrong with that either.

In fact............. I had one soldier struggling to not get kicked out because of APFT flag, but he had SIX service stripes on his ASU as a SPC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! His goal was to make 20 and be done, but he needed one more enlistment and was prevented from doing so because I had flagged him for APFT failure. He managed to get unflagged, that retirement check was the motivator.

We can't force motivation. I suppose a great leader can find everyone's motivator and work with it.

Response by SP5 Timothy Cooper made Oct 7 at 2023 11:24 AM

SP5 Timothy Cooper — Sat, 07 Oct 2023 11:24:01 -0400

The troop is handed the tool's for the job but time's it is up to the person on the left an right that has been doing job longer to help them fine the way. The senior makes time for training so you can put that in your toolbox to have when you need it not up to them if the individual (s) are just missing to out of doing there job I say put them in the miss hall sometime.