1SG Private RallyPoint Member 1577749 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div> 2016-05-31T02:41:20-04:00 1SG Private RallyPoint Member 1577749

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2016-05-31T02:41:20-04:00 2016-05-31T02:41:20-04:00 PO1 Tony Holland 1577778

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I see this as partly a control and accountability issue; but, more importantly, the donut eaters are showing up. How can a leader be sure that the constantly tardy aren't the next deserter or awol headache. We have to be able to rely on our fellows to be there when TSHTF.

2016-05-31T03:08:03-04:00 2016-05-31T03:08:03-04:00 Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member 1577782

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I don't know about the Army. A nAF doc mentioned that the reason we curb overweight people is due to the medical issues that go with it. Things like knees blowing out, back issues and other injuries that occur because of weight issues.

2016-05-31T03:14:28-04:00 2016-05-31T03:14:28-04:00 SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member 1577812

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Both issues need to be addressed in different ways, but trends speak for themselves. Both these examples have underlying factors that attribute to the reason for the infraction. Either the service member gets straightened out or the small team leadership is failing in those duties he/she are supposed to uphold.

2016-05-31T04:50:47-04:00 2016-05-31T04:50:47-04:00 SGM Private RallyPoint Member 1577832

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I would rather have someone that will show up to work on time. Lateness is a for sure discipline issue. An overweight Soldier may have a medical issue and must see a nutrionist. If there is nothing wrong with the overweight troop then maybe the ABCP (see AR 600-9) need some addressing and if that isnt working administrative actions may help he or she to get fit or get out.

2016-05-31T05:27:56-04:00 2016-05-31T05:27:56-04:00 Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS 1577845

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>One is &quot;Disciplinary&quot; (UCMJ level), one is &quot;Administrative.&quot;<br /><br />They fall in two different equally important buckets, however, they are handled in completely different matters. <br /><br />You can&#39;t punish someone for bad health. You can punish them for being late.<br /><br />Many leaders do not know how to react when you remove one of their sets of &quot;remediation tools&quot; which gives the impression that disciplinary issues are more important, mainly because it is the things they have the most ability to affect.

2016-05-31T05:50:32-04:00 2016-05-31T05:50:32-04:00 1SG Harold Piet 1577857

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>In my unit, I treated both with the same scrutiny. overweight was doing PT twice a day, nutrition counseling and if they failed to improve they where Chaptered out. A soldier that was late everyday would be treated with counseling and then AR 15 and restriction and continued being late, Chaptered out. A soldier has standards and all standards are for reasons that make us a fighting force and as a 1SG it is my JOB to enforce them. Once again I feel most problems in the Army is because E-6, E-7, E8 and some E-9 are not doing their JOB.

2016-05-31T06:17:24-04:00 2016-05-31T06:17:24-04:00 CPT Mark Gonzalez 1577904

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>These are combined sometimes. I have seen overweight Soldiers forced to attend remedial PT. If failing to show for that a few times they will be counseled and given Art 15, the same as an SM who is continually late to formation. The discipline and good order of an organization all go back to the leadership.if Soldiers are continually late, the leadership has to address it or they are allowing it.

2016-05-31T06:50:26-04:00 2016-05-31T06:50:26-04:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 1577980

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I think that both are pretty bad but a soldier being late is worst. Now if that soldier that was late was the overweight ("that guy")... Then paperwork needs to get started immediately. Regardless, a soldier being late needs to be care just as much because it starts a ripple where soldiers start to realize that that soldier who is late is not getting any kind of punishment so why am I here then? Right place, right time, and the right uniform.

2016-05-31T07:30:46-04:00 2016-05-31T07:30:46-04:00 SFC Jimmy Hernandez-Benitez 1578140

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Is discipline and if you are late at a civilian job you will be fired and if you are overweight, how can you expect a soldier to function in combat when he has to walk long distances carrying his weapon and ammo. This is the problem this era, the military are babying the soldiers. If they want to eat donuts and get overweight well they need to get out.

2016-05-31T08:18:40-04:00 2016-05-31T08:18:40-04:00 CSM David Heidke 1578290

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I&#39;m willing to work with an overweight Soldier to a point. I&#39;ve been overweight once or twice in my career. If they can&#39;t stay fit and pass the APFT, they should go.<br /><br />Too often we allow them to stay through inaction of administrative actions, and it shows the rest that they can get away with it. They know there are no consequences. I think if we remove a few of the worst offenders, the rest will find more motivation to get fit. JMHO

2016-05-31T09:06:05-04:00 2016-05-31T09:06:05-04:00 SPC Terry Martin 1578539

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Both should be dealt with according to individual regulation. Personally, I would be on those who are out of shape more.

2016-05-31T10:19:25-04:00 2016-05-31T10:19:25-04:00 1SG Private RallyPoint Member 1578576

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Not meeting the standard is not meeting the standard.<br />However, as a First Sergeant, I take it a bit more personally when a troop can't be bothered to make it to MY formation on time. That will draw some personal quality time.<br />Overweight Soldiers need to make adjustments to their lifestyle and choices to get back in line. This is a process, not a come to Jesus tent revival. You arm them with tools to make better choices, you give them additional training to help this along (hell, once I had a "biggest loser" competition)... sometimes they make the right changes, sometimes they don't.<br />At the end of the day, actions have consequences. Being late for formation will eventually lead to NJP. Being fat will eventually lead to discharge. If you aren't doing that, you aren't doing your job as a leader.

2016-05-31T10:28:47-04:00 2016-05-31T10:28:47-04:00 TSgt Jose Cabrera 1578617

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>yea that's just a lack of discipline, A. Fat body can motivated to lose the weight if he doesn't he can always be removed from the Military!

2016-05-31T10:36:05-04:00 2016-05-31T10:36:05-04:00 SSG Warren Swan 1578890

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>If a Soldier is late to formation everyday and no one picks up as to why, then that is a leadership failure. Somewhere a NCO should&#39;ve taken him to the side, and asked &quot;is there a problem with you being here on time&quot;? I&#39;ve had Soldiers come late and the child care center wasn&#39;t opened on time, and it was true. I can&#39;t counsel you if your reason is legit. (this was before everyone carried cellphones). If it is going to be an issue that can be a long term issue, then we&#39;d have to sit and come to some kind of way where the Soldier can do what is needed to be done and make it to formation. I use that as an example being I&#39;ve had single male and female Soldiers who are parents. Showing up late, and you don&#39;t have the &quot;coolest excuse ever&quot; will get you the &quot;coolest 4856 ever&quot;. Continue on that path, and the PSG, 1SG, and CDR get involved, you will loose rank, and eventually be sent packing. <br />Overweight Soldiers deserve to be treated with the same respect their rank and abilities deserve. They are owed the chance to have their blood drawn, nutritionist seen, and find out if there is mitigating reasons that the Soldier is overweight. One thing that no one wants to talk about is the Soldiers who are overweight due to prescribed medications. AR600-9 states that you cannot be overweight due to medicines. I&#39;m willing to bet my paycheck that was written LONG before we went to a long war and the troops are coming home from tours mentally destroyed. My Doc had me on 500-600mg of Seroquel. Another doctor couldn&#39;t believe I was even able to function with that much in me everyday. It completely dumbed me down, took feelings away, and I was a step or two above a child&#39;s mind. I would eat your car with maple syrup if it wasn&#39;t hidden in your garage. My unit was advised of this and my weight skyrocketed. I was freakin HUGE, and I&#39;ve always been either borderline with tape or over it. But that medicine kept me calm, and in a very limited sense &quot;functional&quot;. I was flagged, and it was the right thing to do, even though the medical professionals wrote letters advising them that as long as I&#39;m on this medicine, I will only get bigger. By the time I was fully off that med, I had completed the Med board and retired. Can&#39;t go cold turkey on Seroquel. . The Army or military in general needs to rethink the overweight program in regards to anti-depressants and their effects on Soldiers. Hiding behind a regulation isn&#39;t helping anyone and just because the Solder is on it, doesn&#39;t mean he/she should be written off. Being fat and not caring is one thing. Being fat and you&#39;re eating out everyday, and you don&#39;t care? It&#39;ll be time to punch out and get a new job. Being fat and on medicines that are clinically noted to cause issues, needs to be taken into account.

2016-05-31T11:14:47-04:00 2016-05-31T11:14:47-04:00 MSgt Michelle Mondia 1578922

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Since when is being chubby considered a disciplinary issue? 60% of this country is obese. If 60% of the country were to disregard timeliness... we'd be France. unfoutunanly well fed has become very 'merican. Just ask the CEO of Hardy's.

2016-05-31T11:18:50-04:00 2016-05-31T11:18:50-04:00 SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member 1581092

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>They are two different issues that are important. One a soldier is ftr and screws over their battle buddies because they are already work hard getting the mission done. Two the over weight soldier is well over weight and they may have trouble doing PT/ making the run standards and the APFT standards which questions their ability to deployed.

2016-05-31T20:24:28-04:00 2016-05-31T20:24:28-04:00 CSM Private RallyPoint Member 1581350

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>1SG you make a very good point. If you are not in compliance with something than you are not. No matter what that something is.

2016-05-31T21:57:51-04:00 2016-05-31T21:57:51-04:00 Sgt Dale Briggs 1595260

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Late everyday? How is this possible, miss formation the 1st Sgts on your ass, miss two your getting office hours. My sons AF attached to an Army brigade, he's been sick since getting home from Afghanastan , some type of respitory distress and he's being evaluated for PTSD. He's not fat, but he's barely making the runs. Sometimes there's reasons, but just chowing down would have someone on your ass I'm quite sure. I was in an Anglico unit and I'd guarentee that.

2016-06-04T12:41:45-04:00 2016-06-04T12:41:45-04:00 SPC Kortney Kistler 1595723

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>PT always seems to be everyone's number one criteria as judgment on how good a soldier somebody is. Technically everybody on permanent profile that can't take the "Standard" APFT are not physically equal to those who can. They are given alternate events that are easier to complete than the standard. Nobody seems to care about that. <br /><br />I have come across some people that simply just don't get it and they never will. But, somehow they can meet the minimum standard and float their way into some stripes. I know you all have seen it. You see them walking by and you say to yourself, how the hell did they make rank? But they did it, and now what?<br /><br />Being a good soldier isn't about having a lean, mean, tough physic, (although it helps). Being a good soldier is about being a key addition to the team. Dependability, adaptability, accountability. <br /><br />No matter how tall you are you still have to reach and no matter how short you are you still have to bend over.

2016-06-04T15:35:11-04:00 2016-06-04T15:35:11-04:00 SPC Private RallyPoint Member 1595888

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>They have to be held to standards. Once those soldiers fail that standard, you have to have a consistent corrective training. Flag, 4856, or whatever the failure of that standard calls for. <br /><br />Leadership needs to enforce those standards. A lot of leaders in formation today aren't that;leaders. They're NCOs promoted before they should have been, lacking confidence and experience. Case in point, I myself decided not to show up to pt for 3 weeks. I would show up to work call. I never once got a text, phone call, knock on my door, or a question "hey where were you this morning". <br /><br />I know it was wrong but I have seen the level of leadership in my unit and decided to test that leadership

2016-06-04T17:01:30-04:00 2016-06-04T17:01:30-04:00 CPL James Mellar 1597208

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The reason, in my opinion, it is worse for a soldier to be late for formation every day than it is for one to be overweight every day, is the soldier who is overweight is being professional and may not be allowed an optimally healthy lifestyle. A chain of command can remedy that. The late soldier is unprofessional, and that can show in times of war, in the form of dead troops who may have been depending on him.

2016-06-05T07:41:52-04:00 2016-06-05T07:41:52-04:00 CPL James Mellar 1597210

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The reason, in my opinion, it is worse for a soldier to show up late for formation, every day, than it is for one to show up overweight, is the soldier who is on time is professional, despite an unhealthy lifestyle. A chain of command can remedy that way of life. The late soldier is unprofessional, and that can show, in times of war, in the guise of dead troops who may have depended on a soldier being somewhere at a designated time.

2016-06-05T07:46:07-04:00 2016-06-05T07:46:07-04:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 1810824

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Top<br />I have a feeling it's the reduction in the force that bring us to accept what we have now and just deal with it. I have "over-weighters" in my ranks and it sucks. Seams like the powers to be are not in a hurry to get them out.

2016-08-16T15:23:08-04:00 2016-08-16T15:23:08-04:00 CAPT Private RallyPoint Member 1812581

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>1SG Molina, it depends on the command but I believe that leaders (mostly Senior Enlisted) are having a "come to Jesus" with the costs associated with retention, recruitment, and readiness of service members struggling with weight and physical performance. As a note on average it cost $70K to get one service member through boot camp. The cost skyrockets based off their speciality.

2016-08-17T07:57:37-04:00 2016-08-17T07:57:37-04:00 MAJ Private RallyPoint Member 1812764

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Your calling overweight Soldiers "donut-eaters" is quite offensive as it simply plays off of a stereotype. I have known many Soldiers who do all the right things but because of their metabolism, they will never be slender. Just like you have people who can eat anything they want and never seem to gain weight, you have Soldiers on the opposite end of that metabolism spectrum. You will not be able to help any of them with that attitude.

2016-08-17T09:03:13-04:00 2016-08-17T09:03:13-04:00 LCpl Private RallyPoint Member 1813857

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>You are only as fast as your slowest Soldier .<br />Being late is worst than your slowest Soldier .<br />A few pound is easy to lose .

2016-08-17T15:20:06-04:00 2016-08-17T15:20:06-04:00 CPT Private RallyPoint Member 2260420

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>BLUF: we do care. My company conducts a H/W and APFT every month. We closely monitor those that are borderline, but we are much more inclined to work with those that show up and put forth an effort. In both cases we try to find the root cause and correct it.

2017-01-18T15:45:21-05:00 2017-01-18T15:45:21-05:00 SPC Ruth Duffer 2260882

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>It&#39;s Laziness and don&#39;t give a shit !! Rid the Snowflakes !!

2017-01-18T18:40:43-05:00 2017-01-18T18:40:43-05:00 Edward Belliveau 2411752

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Court Marshall for being awol

2017-03-11T17:07:29-05:00 2017-03-11T17:07:29-05:00 2016-05-31T02:41:20-04:00