If I go to the clinic and the doctor writes me a profile saying no PT, can my 1SG make me do PT anyway?

2016-09-29T21:11:33-04:00

Response by 1SG Patrick Burke made Sep 29 at 2016 9:13 PM

2016-09-29T21:13:33-04:00

What are you considering a slip?

Response by SSgt Jim Gilmore made Sep 29 at 2016 9:20 PM

2016-09-29T21:20:52-04:00

Response by SFC Pete Kain made Sep 29 at 2016 9:27 PM

2016-09-29T21:27:13-04:00

Need more information, what is keeping you from doing P.T. and why does your 1st Sgt. feel the need to make you do it ? Most 1st Sgt's are not eager to go against a Doctors recommendation and that is all is BTW.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 29 at 2016 9:33 PM

2016-09-29T21:33:01-04:00

there is a textbook answer for this, but something may be missing. I'll bite anyway - does 1SG want to you do exercises in general or exercises that the listed on your "slip". There is rarely cause for a "no PT/PRT profile". Your 1SG knows that, the doc may not.

Response by SFC George Smith made Sep 29 at 2016 9:39 PM

2016-09-29T21:39:47-04:00

NO... !!!! That is an Order From An Officer... and if he Does Violate your Profile Temporary or otherwise... There is A Pending Relief for Cause ...

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 29 at 2016 9:43 PM

2016-09-29T21:43:59-04:00

To try to cover all the questions in one go and not the comments. The note it self specifically says no AM pt. I still try to get my exercise in the afternoon. There are no specific prt events I'm excluded from it just says pt as a whole in the AM. It also says specifically for one week. (her words were any longer and I'd have to put it in the computer.) And the reason she recommended this is because she is doing blood work checking for something she believes I have some problem were both unsure of. And I would like to know if the paper signed by her is a recommendation or do I have to follow IT or the my 1SG?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 29 at 2016 9:48 PM

2016-09-29T21:48:30-04:00

You should have been given a DA 3349.
On that form, exercises that can not be performed or have restrictions (such as run at your own pace) will be listed. Anything not listed as prohibited or limited means that you can perform the exercise.
That aside, the First Sergeant does not have the authority to override a profile. The commander does, and when doing so assumes responsibility for any injury that may occur. Most commanders will not override a profile without a very good reason.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 29 at 2016 10:40 PM

2016-09-29T22:40:06-04:00

As a Company Commander, I never questioned a profile...If the Doc says NO PT then it's NO PT....NOW I have seen some Profiles MAGICALLY Appear 1-2 days before a PT Test...These I have had issue with..., If it seemed like the Soldier was trying to get over on the APFT...It all depends.... most of the time they were legit...but I did have more significant drama with Officers, than I did with the Enlisted folks...but thats another story for another day...

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Sep 29 at 2016 11:29 PM

2016-09-29T23:29:42-04:00

I'm Thinking Not, A LTC overruled him

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 30 at 2016 12:03 AM

2016-09-30T00:03:48-04:00

Should have a profile to show your 1SG, but does it say no PT whatsoever or just limited or modified? Because it might say you can't do for example situps based on your injury for example but are perfectly capable to doing leg tuck and twist at your own pace.

Response by LTC Kathleen Maddox made Sep 30 at 2016 8:00 AM

2016-09-30T08:00:45-04:00

Did you go to the TMC? Did you file the appropriate paperwork to receive an official Army Profile? If so you need to have a copy of that profile with you and turn in a copy to the Training NCO of your unit. If all that is true you can only be required to perform whatever is listed on your profile. I hope this helps you

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Sep 30 at 2016 8:50 AM

2016-09-30T08:50:47-04:00

No. Unless you're a scammer and he knows it then he might not care. I was actually put in a limited duty status and wasn't allowed to PT, but being a Marine, you can't just shut off that part of your brain. So I kept PTing on a no PT chit and I had my superiors threaten to write me up for disobeying direct orders not to PT. I understand they were only looking out for my well being and wanted me to make a full recovery. But no, if you're not supposed to be PTing, then you shouldn't be PTing.

Response by SGT Gary Vaught made Sep 30 at 2016 11:04 AM

2016-09-30T11:04:15-04:00

Short answer is NO.....
1SG can not override doctors orders, nor should he want to.

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made Sep 30 at 2016 12:53 PM

2016-09-30T12:53:41-04:00

technically, no... but First Shirts have LONG memories

Response by MSG Dan Castaneda made Sep 30 at 2016 12:54 PM

2016-09-30T12:54:07-04:00

PVT Duran, you my friend are a young private. You should want to do PT. If you cannot do certain events, then inform the person running the PT, and then attempt a modified exercise. You are way too young to start trying to go against the command. Get with the program buddy. Welcome to the military.

Response by TSgt Steve Jasper made Sep 30 at 2016 1:30 PM

2016-09-30T13:30:34-04:00

Your 1SG can tell you what ever he/she wants. In that same sense you will or will not do it. Then an officer gets involved. Whole new ballgame. Your call!

Response by COL William Oseles made Sep 30 at 2016 1:58 PM

2016-09-30T13:58:00-04:00

Depends how it is written, may not exclude alternate exercises.

Response by SGT Alejandro Benavides made Sep 30 at 2016 2:16 PM

2016-09-30T14:16:43-04:00

If it becomes a problem, talk to your commander, provider, BN commander then IG in that order. Don't injure yourself further by not taking care of yourself. Take it from me that I thought I was hardcore to do all kinds of stuff, I ended up breaking an ankle and leg thus ending my career. Take care of your body if you want to make it to 20

Response by 1SG Bill Farmerie made Sep 30 at 2016 3:43 PM

2016-09-30T15:43:10-04:00

No PA writes a no PT profile. They do the profile sheet of what you can do

Response by CPL Anthony Slaughter made Sep 30 at 2016 4:56 PM

2016-09-30T16:56:51-04:00

This is an understandable question for a young Soldier to ask, since I had to have my Squad Leader explain some of this to me when I first became a Team Leader and had to handle Soldiers who were on Profile.
When placed on Profile, the Clinic gives you a DA form, I can't remember the form number, which lists what restrictions you have been placed on. TOP can't simply override a profile, your Commander can, although they will be held responsible for any injuries sustained, so its not likely.
However, as a Soldier, it is your duty to push yourself toward constant improvement, including when on Profile such as by doing authorized alternative exercises. Do not violate your profile, but don't let it become a crutch either.

Response by CW3 Matt Hutchason made Sep 30 at 2016 5:19 PM

2016-09-30T17:19:43-04:00

Here I go with my stories again..... when I was in boot camp (Parris Island), at one point our platoon had 3 or 4 recruits on light duty. I was on fire watch one day with another recruit in our squad bay while the platoon was at PT. The recruits on light duty were also in the squad bay, basically goofing off. At some point, Drill Instructor Sgt Perlot appeared at the hatch looking through the window. I ran and opened the hatch and did the "attention on deck" thing. He told me to stand by the hatch and alert him to "eyeballs" (Marines know what that means). He then rounded up what he referred to as "Limp Di__s", told them to take their chits out, wadded up said chits, and proceeded to subject those recruits to something they probably all still have bad dreams about. The quarterdeck session from hell would be accurate.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 30 at 2016 8:30 PM

2016-09-30T20:30:35-04:00

PV2 Duran, I strongly recommend you talk with your doctor, here is why;

There is a new profile system. So some of the advice you are being given is great but outdated. The new profile system does not allow anyone to over ride the doctors orders on a profile even the Commander. There is also a new system to track this "Commanders Portal" this new system took effect 1 June 2016. Eprofile is no longer available for commanders and 1SGs.

The Army realized that too many folks are severely injured and the numbers are not related to Combat but overall health and welfare, I again recommend you talk with your doctor.

If you need further information feel free to contact me- [login to see]

Hope this helps!

1SG Perea

Response by SGM Harvey Boone made Sep 30 at 2016 8:42 PM

2016-09-30T20:42:06-04:00

Quick way for a top to go to the bottom. I.ve seen commanders lose everything for breaking a soldiers profile. To officers that are in an Army of their own A Doctor and A Lawyer.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Sep 30 at 2016 9:08 PM

2016-09-30T21:08:38-04:00

I agree w 1SG Private RallyPoint Member and MSG Dan Castaneda

Response by SSG Mark Franzen made Sep 30 at 2016 9:33 PM

2016-09-30T21:33:15-04:00

I would say No but there again they can have a modified PT PROGRAM with your limits what you can do.

Response by CW4 Angel C. made Sep 30 at 2016 10:26 PM

2016-09-30T22:26:24-04:00

No he can't but be careful not to follow any orders cause you will likely lose the battle. But believe it or not some profiles are not given the right way. It's better when the 1SG/CDR talk to your doc to discuss it. I'm gonna do you a solid though. Look up AR 40-501 (google) chapter 7 for more understanding.

Response by SGT Travis Massie made Oct 1 at 2016 12:02 AM

2016-10-01T00:02:25-04:00

Back in my day as a medic. I was told by my PA that 1st sgts can override profiles, as others have said taking responsibility for further injury, that the profiles are a suggestion/recommendation, not the final word. As I have also read on here, you should soldier up and take responsibility for your development as a soldier. You have barely been in the military and are already trying to go against command? Not a wise decision. I've seen profile riders exited out of the military real quick. If you can't handle the stress don't subject yourself to it and find a way to get out of the military and let others who are happy serving their country take your place, as all privates are expendable.

Response by SSG John Jensen made Oct 1 at 2016 2:14 PM

2016-10-01T14:14:33-04:00

for the crime of getting a temp profile for what ever the leg injury was, the soldier was put to work mopping the stairs , and he was on crutches!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 3 at 2016 9:28 AM

2016-10-03T09:28:35-04:00

Speaking from experience, my 1SG at Bragg made me jump because a PA did not word my profile well. He put "no jumping" instead "no airborne ops". I was forced to jump from a PLF platform to the ground and also exit an aircraft 2 weeks after I sustained a bruised bone injury in an airborne operation. I landed safely but weeks after my knee was swollen and it took months for me to recover. My research showed that professional athletes get 6 months for recovery from that injury. My knee has never been the same. It is not good to force soldiers to engage in exercises that can aggravate injuries. We bear the cost of such actions when people get out of the military with 75-100% disability rating and our taxes pay them.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Oct 3 at 2016 1:00 PM

2016-10-03T13:00:28-04:00

If a doc ever filled in a 3349 that said NO PT and left it that and sent the Sm back to my unit with it......that form would be headed to the Div Surgeon in a Nano Second..with a request to have said docs cranium removed from thier anal orifice....And likley the Div Surgeon (or flight or what ever your unit higher HQ has) would do the medical eval them self and provide the SM and unit with a positive profile correctly filled in that helps the SM and commander know what the SM CAN DO to stay fit and continue to be an asset to the unit.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 3 at 2016 1:09 PM

2016-10-03T13:09:42-04:00

I've read through the comments, including the OP's additional information (AM PT). I assume, but am not certain, that the doctor is having tests done in the morning that could be skewed by PT prior to them.

All that aside, leaders are paid to lead, not leave it to a PV2 to sort out or second guess a doctor. If the 1SG or the CDR have questions or doubts about the PV2's profile, the 1SG or the CDR should wrap their lips around the telephone and call the doctor that gave it and, in the likely event that the doctor is busy, leave an explanatory message and request a call back. Too easy. That that didn't happen here, assuming we have the story straight, is a leadership failure IMV.

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Oct 3 at 2016 2:53 PM

2016-10-03T14:53:08-04:00

I miss the daily PT.

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Oct 3 at 2016 3:01 PM

2016-10-03T15:01:43-04:00

What is/are the underlying reason(s) for not wanting to participate in PT? Seems like much energy is expended to avoid it....Why not use that same energy in working out on your own? Practice running on your own?

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 4 at 2016 9:35 AM

2016-10-04T09:35:53-04:00

No he cannot.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 4 at 2016 9:37 AM

2016-10-04T09:37:15-04:00

No he is not able to but try to get off profile as soon as possible.

Response by CPT Thomas Caldwell made Oct 8 at 2016 2:51 PM

2016-10-08T14:51:07-04:00

Yes he can against medical advice

Response by PFC Jeremy Odom made Oct 21 at 2016 10:40 AM

2016-10-21T10:40:00-04:00

Negative. Your profile is generally signed by a commissioned officer and is considered to be a lawful order as such.

Response by MSG Johnathan Mathes made Oct 21 at 2016 3:50 PM

2016-10-21T15:50:40-04:00

Pv2
A commander has to accept that risk.... its not a 1sgs call..however a 1sg can delegate that your leader go with you to sick call to get a direct from the horses mouth opinion from the doc.. if he thinks its not legit

Response by SGM Harvey Boone made Oct 27 at 2016 6:12 PM

2016-10-27T18:12:41-04:00

That would be the best way for them to lose their position and possibly their rank if the DR is worth a dam which I must say today that is a real question. I had A SFC once whos CDR ordered him to the field against a DR's order at Ft. Bragg he went after the field problem he reported back to the DR and that's the last time we saw the CPT. He was gone. Don't screw with a DR they will hang your butt. Needless to say the DR's at Bragg are worthless not they will do nothing to help soldiers with PTSD except to dope them up or stick them in a nut ward that doesn't help a dam bit anyone who ever spent time in a war can tell one that I suppose that most of them have never left the states.

Response by 1SG Billye Jackson made Nov 1 at 2016 12:06 PM

2016-11-01T12:06:13-04:00

With in the Limits of your Profile. Yes

Response by SPC Geoffrey Jenkins made Dec 27 at 2016 7:31 AM

2016-12-27T07:31:36-05:00

Depends on your restrictions,if the Doctor writes no running so be it,but there's other exercises you can do,but to answer your question the Doctor for the most part will be an officer so chances are the 1SG will comply.

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Dec 27 at 2016 10:58 PM

2016-12-27T22:58:07-05:00

Sp4 Byron Skinner. This smells of fish to me. You don't go to a clinic in the military you go on sick call. If for some reason you need to be put on limited duty, an old expression for a Doctors excuse. It sounds like here the PV2 went to a civilian doctor. A Private trying to pull one over on a 1SG. I notice the two soldiers doing PT is their "cute" little PT uniforms and no hats. Out of uniform…shame, shame. As I've said before here I think the military does way to much PT but if its to be done it should be done again as it use to in combat boots, field uniform, helmet and weapon. If you find yourself in a situation where you need the benefits of all that PT that is what you will be wearing.

Response by SSG Steve Isaacson made Dec 29 at 2016 5:32 AM

2016-12-29T05:32:46-05:00

No he cannot

Response by SGT Stanley Bass made Dec 29 at 2016 11:39 AM

2016-12-29T11:39:46-05:00

Read the regulation regarding that topic, become familiar with it. If he is having you do something you are feel you are not supposed to. Go back to the Doctor and get "clarification." As mentioned below if you are doing something you are not supposed to they are responsible. Had a similar instance happen to me that 1SG Jerry Healy mentioned. My CO had the Dr lift my profile after having a major surgery on my eye, so he could give me a PT test. After that the IG was on speed dial for me with a lot of "hypothetical" situations. Know the regulations, know what you can and cant do and point tha tout to your 1SG.