If I was awarded an MSM in a combat zone can that be upgraded to a BSM?

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Mar 2023 10:07:33 -0500

My understanding is that the MSM is a peace time award and that the BSM is the war time medal. Thank you

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Mar 6 at 2023 10:21 AM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Mon, 06 Mar 2023 10:21:01 -0500

It can. But only with a whole lot of high level review and proof that the original award was a MASSIVE oversight/error.

We have recently seen a significant number of valor award upgrades. And by significant I mean in the tens. Covering 80 years and hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of awards. So is it possible? Sure. Is it probable? Not likely.

About 15 years ago, the Army did a hard pivot and opened "garrison" awards to deployed actions. If your award is for non-combat activity - and in this case, combat means direct force-on-force stuff - then the MSM is fully valid according to the latest Army guidance.

As a senior medic, the chances are good you were back on a FOB or in a CASH. So, unless you were out on the battlefield, performing TC3 under direct fire, that MSM is most likely going to stand.

Exact same thing for me. I am an Intel weenie. I did theater-level stuff. Plus I ran around 75 missions through Kabul doing secret squirrel stuff with next to no direct support. Me and the two guys in my truck, and another truck with three guys 500m away, and that's it. Took direct fire around a dozen times - but we had armor and just drove through, rather than engaging. Translation: MSM, because no actual combat. Just combat support.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 6 at 2023 10:24 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Mar 2023 10:24:38 -0500

If you could read us the bullets for your award paperwork to be able to justify your MSM Maybe others here with experience writing the awards would know if you qualify. I want Star General had to approve your MSM so it's going to probably be higher than a one-star general it has to upgrade it.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 6 at 2023 10:25 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Mar 2023 10:25:58 -0500

Voice text error. A one star or Brigadier General had to approve your meritorious service medal to begin with. You will be going through lots of Hoops to get this upgraded. The Bronx star can be given as a administrative bronze star or bronze star for Valor. You need to tell us what you did and how it was worded so others here can give you some input.

Response by COL Randall C. made Mar 6 at 2023 10:26 AM

COL Randall C. — Mon, 06 Mar 2023 10:26:01 -0500

You CAN be awarded a BSM in a hostile zone, but that doesn't mean you WILL be awarded one instead of a MSM.

MSMs and BSMs are equivalent (at least in the eyes of the regulation), so there is no "upgrading". However, if your award was given for service under combat conditions (i.e., a fire fight, under imminent danger of hostile action, etc) and not just "in a combat zone" or "during a period of conflict" then you could ask that the award be reconsidered.

The key there is if the write-up is for "combat performance" then you might have a case with HRC .. if you don't, then it's not going to go anywhere (unless you can show that others were given BSMs for the exact same actions ... but even then, it's unlikely because BSMs and MSMs are on the same level as an award).

Response by SP5 Peter Keane made Mar 6 at 2023 12:09 PM

SP5 Peter Keane — Mon, 06 Mar 2023 12:09:39 -0500

AR 600-8-22, Paragraph 3-16, the MSM may not be upgraded to or downgraded from a recommended Bronze Star Medal.

Response by SSG Brian Kerr made Mar 6 at 2023 2:25 PM

SSG Brian Kerr — Mon, 06 Mar 2023 14:25:02 -0500

As already clarified...

The answer is "Yes", any decoration can be upgraded as long as there's additional information provided in the paperwork to justify the upgrade.

Though, if an award was submitted that was downgraded, this specific situation/result can simply be submitted for reconsideration as outlined in the Regulations.

~Brian Kerr

Response by SFC William Linnell made Mar 12 at 2023 10:46 AM

SFC William Linnell — Sun, 12 Mar 2023 10:46:08 -0400

Ok SFC. There has been a misconception that has been out there, If your a SFC in a combat zone automatically shoots you up for a Bronze Star. Wrong. One of the things I found to get recognize for it is you have to be in contact with the enemy, multiple occasions. Not just riding around in a combat area either. Not knowing your full experience being in a combat zone, I would say that the MSM is the proven acceptable award. My first tour in Afghanistan, I was part of the newly Combat Adviser mission with the Afghan Border Patrol in the Kunar and Nangahar and the Tora Bora area. Our team was a mix of Armor, Artillery, Infantry, Mortar, Support/Supply, Scout members. We took and sent a lot of contact at Camp Joyce. Our tour award was scrutinized by National Guard, Navy, Marine Officers. We received a Bronze star while other parts of our team didn't. WHY? They never were in contact.

Response by MGySgt George W Iliffe Jr made Mar 27 at 2023 12:14 PM

MGySgt George W Iliffe Jr — Mon, 27 Mar 2023 12:14:34 -0400

At the end of Operation "Desert Storm" my OIC wanted to give me a MSM and I told him don't bother sir I'm retiring and I thought the MSM was usually awarded to transferring LtCol's and retiring Sgt. Maj.

Response by SFC Clyde Beard made Mar 29 at 2023 4:11 AM

SFC Clyde Beard — Wed, 29 Mar 2023 04:11:04 -0400

Short answer NO/

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Mar 29 at 2023 5:38 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Wed, 29 Mar 2023 05:38:02 -0400

To keep it simple, an upgrade or subsequent award would require your conduct/actions and the environment were hostile and you were part of a force on force or like engagement.

It would appear, based on what you have provided it appears that they treated the deployment as a tour and your end of tour warranted an MSM.

That is a relevant and significant award. Either way, just being in a hostile zone does not warrant the BSM. The burden of proof once everyone has PCSd is on you and available records of action in theater.

Response by SFC Dan Thomsen made Mar 30 at 2023 5:44 PM

SFC Dan Thomsen — Thu, 30 Mar 2023 17:44:42 -0400

The BSM was created to be the equivalent of the Air Medal for aviators in combat. I have seen BSM's awarded to Fobbit's and MSM's awarded to folks that took direct fire aimed at them in combat. Though the regulation says what it say's, they "allow" field commanders to deviate from regulations a lot to make the determinations. I have seen a lot of good and bad of this but the intent of the award is true and it is with that we serve('d) and live with as best we can.

Response by MSgt Craig Gauger made Jun 2 at 2023 1:01 PM

MSgt Craig Gauger — Fri, 02 Jun 2023 13:01:32 -0400

Be thankful that your leadership recognized your work and keep charging. Be the leader that they see in your actions. Mentor your troops to be the best they can be and recognize them when it's due.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jun 2 at 2023 1:28 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Fri, 02 Jun 2023 13:28:22 -0400

The MSM can be issued in a combat zone. It is usually awarded for significant contributions to those in the ground and in the fight. Example would be a Division Command far from the front, such as an HQ in Kuwait supporting tactical troops in Iraq.

Anyway it is very hard and highly unlikely to be changed to a BSM. It is hard to believe that this type question did not come up when United redeployed, asked and answered is usually what had occurred.

Response by LTC Martin Metz made Jun 5 at 2023 12:31 AM

LTC Martin Metz — Mon, 05 Jun 2023 00:31:53 -0400

I think under some circumstances, the "R", "C", or "V" devices may be authorized since 2017. Check the regs.

Response by Cpl Andy Krueger made Jun 7 at 2023 5:22 PM

Cpl Andy Krueger — Wed, 07 Jun 2023 17:22:38 -0400

This screams of boot officer

Response by SSgt Brad Peterson made Jun 18 at 2023 5:25 PM

SSgt Brad Peterson — Sun, 18 Jun 2023 17:25:24 -0400

What is this BSM and MSN?