If I went as an officer rather than enlisted would I be able to get "down and dirty" with my troops or would I be forced to be behind a desk?

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 31 Jan 2018 21:28:05 -0500

I'm currently a junior in high school and am mainly deciding if I would want to go as an officer or not. I've been talking to my recruiter and am currently on route to go to MEPS in the next few weeks and then basic between my Junior and senior year of high school (this summer), so that I'd be able to go reserves then later ROTC. My main issue is that I want to be a team member with my fellow soldiers rather than someone who sits behind a desk all day. I prefer to be active and that's whats making me consider enlisting instead. Also side question my recruiter says that I should choose the MOS at MEPS with the most educational benefits, but I am very hard set on going infantry as a 2nd LT, so I want to be certain I would be able to switch my MOS once I graduated. Thanks.

Response by A1C Ian Williams made Jan 31 at 2018 9:42 PM

A1C Ian Williams — Wed, 31 Jan 2018 21:42:39 -0500

It depends on your MOS/AFSC. PV2 Private RallyPoint Member The day to day operations is in the hands of the enlisted. Your job as an officer is mostly to hand down orders from command and see that they are effectively carried out. How important is the officer rank to you? You can rise high in the enlisted and be closer to your team. Become informed and have a plan. Good luck to you.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2018 9:45 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 31 Jan 2018 21:45:12 -0500

All infantry officers get down and dirty with their subordinates. They do have different duties, but every infantry officer I served with did FTX's.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2018 9:54 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 31 Jan 2018 21:54:33 -0500

How much time you sit behind a desk as an officer is largely up to you. Even senior leaders should take the time to train with their troops when they can. As a new LT-especially in a combat arms branch- you are expected to spend a great deal of time getting "down and dirty" with your Soldiers. That becomes more challenging as your rise higher in rank and your duties take you away from that direct interaction.

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made Jan 31 at 2018 10:04 PM

Sgt Wayne Wood — Wed, 31 Jan 2018 22:04:20 -0500

A) Sergeant ain’t a booby prize... nor is it a gimme

B) officers can get as dirty as the want... but they are EXECUTIVES. They are responsible for keeping perspective, hard to do with your face in the dirt.

C) all enlisted aren’t stupid... all officers aren’t MacArthur... or even Jesus.

Gut check time.

Response by SGT Matthew S. made Jan 31 at 2018 10:24 PM

SGT Matthew S. — Wed, 31 Jan 2018 22:24:58 -0500

As others have said, much of an Officer's ability to get "down and dirty" is up to them, although partially dependent upon their field.

My suggestion would be to enlist, learn your MOS from the ground up, and hone your leadership skills as your work your way up through the ranks and become an NCO - a Non-Commissioned Officer.

Then, after you have some more leadership experience, an idea of your military field, and at least a partial view of what being an Officer entails, you can decide if you want to go through a program such as Green To Gold and become a Commissioned Officer. Some, although not all, of the best Officers I served under were former Enlisted; they often had a better feel for what they were doing then many of the OCS/West Point Officers.

Just some food for thought.

Response by PFC Jim Wheeler made Jan 31 at 2018 10:33 PM

PFC Jim Wheeler — Wed, 31 Jan 2018 22:33:01 -0500

From my limited experience:

Enlisted personnel will do most of the "grunt" work, especially infantry. That means the floor mopping, grass mowing, humvee washing, etc. When they do training, the PL will generally participate in all of the same things (FTX, stress shoots, etc.), but don't pull guard shifts at night.

Thus, the officers do all of the training and infantry tasks that you want to do, but, while enlisted privates are practicing their area beautification skills, they will be doing admin work behind a desk.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Jan 31 at 2018 11:28 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Wed, 31 Jan 2018 23:28:31 -0500

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member This paradigm that Officers sit back and stare out the window at soldiers in the suck is just wrong. If you buy into it, shame on you. An effective officer identifies specific periods of suck with their soldiers And shares in it. Participating fully and visibly. You are not supplanting the NCO leadership to make the last tactical mile, and you must go take care of "officer stuff" that keeps your guys in the fight, but it is not a life of Cush if it is you are doing it wrong.

Even as a Garrison Commander with DA Civilians, I would stand a guard watch at the main gate at 200 or 300. Bring coffee and share Gen suck as it were. I would ride on police and fire patrols on weekends. I would go first during the APFT. I was not a stud, but I was engaged.

Being a Platoon Leader is usually a dirty job. Command maintenance, Motorpools, property lay outs, Platoon tactical operations, ranges, gunnery, and PT. That is how junior officers learn the trade.

Find the point of friction and insert yourself in it. https://www.rallypoint.com/command-post/new-officers-listen-up

New Officers, Listen Up. | RallyPoint

As a newly Commissioned Officer, or as a Cadet aspiring to become an Officer, you may be asking yourself many questions as you get closer to leading your first Platoon. How will I rise to the challenge? How should I “come in”? The first thing you need to adjust is your mindset. Unless you have prior enlisted experience, you have to adjust to the fact that you will not be leading peer Cadets. Cadets are great and wonderful people. They are...

Response by LTJG Richard Bruce made Jan 31 at 2018 11:50 PM

LTJG Richard Bruce — Wed, 31 Jan 2018 23:50:27 -0500

What do you want to do in the Army? In the Coast Guard we say, "Pick your rate, pick your fate." Need to accept both good and bad aspects of your MOS. I enlisted at 17 and did a range of entry level jobs as a E-2/3. Lucky to get a Cadet appointment and became an Ensign. I did a lot of dirty jobs as a Cadet. First "O" job was as Gunnery Division Officer on a 378ft high endurance cutter. It's a long story, but I quickly became Weapons Officer supervising three Ensigns and 15 petty officers. I wish I had more time to get "down and dirty" with the crew.

This was my daily routine at sea without special evolutions; Wake up at 0300 to stand 0400-0800 watch on bridge as OOD. Eat left-over breakfast. Meet senior petty officers to discuss daily work schedule. Have planning meeting in wardroom. Walk about the decks for morning inspection. Check magazines, Do paperwork in stateroom. Read/write classified msg traffic in Radio Room. Visit CIC (radar room) for classified briefing. Skip lunch and take a quick nap. Go to all-hands meeting. Conduct training. Do more paperwork. Conduct afternoon inspections. Check magazines. Do more paperwork. Go on 1600-2000 watch. Eat left-over dinner. Open ship's store. Go back to Radio Room and CIC. Do more paperwork. Sleep. Repeat.

Above schedule does not include time spent on enforcement boardings, or helo ops, or REFTRA, or being on a custody crew, or search/rescue, or Navy Ops, or special sea detail. JO's have many collateral duties. Paperwork included, SITREP, CASREP, evaluations, requisitions, audits, preventative maintenance management, training planning, operations reports, my own training obligations, reading volumes of manuals, budgeting, accounting, watch preparations, inspection reports, law enforcement training, inventories, etc. Had the big 3 responsibilities; money, secrets, and guns. It's not a good thing to lose money, give up the secrets, or blow up the ship.

Skills needed for a sea going junior officer are time management, writing, reading, arithmetic, making coffee, holding your bladder, not getting sea sick, making the CO/XO/OPS happy, make sure all your stuff works, not sinking the ship, and doing the right thing for your crew, ship, and service. I tried to make my department feel, at least, good that I represented them.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Feb 1 at 2018 12:41 AM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Thu, 01 Feb 2018 00:41:20 -0500

If You enter as an Officer or an Enlisted Man We all support the same mission and getting things done as part of a team. You can't run combat operations from a desk, its take leading from the front. Officers and NCOs both though at the more Senior levels and increased responsibility at higher management levels overseeing larger numbers of people of course the function changes and decisions are made for multiple units instead of a Platoon, Company or Battalion and a more fixed control location is needed. You still however can't be on the battlefield and not be effected by the battle. NCOs and Officers still can't escape all paperwork, there will be some desk time no matter which You are, enlisted or Officer. As an NCO and Senior NCO I sat at a desk but not all day, You do keep in touch with Your troops to be effective and stay on top of things.

Response by CPT Andrew Wright made Feb 1 at 2018 4:41 AM

CPT Andrew Wright — Thu, 01 Feb 2018 04:41:19 -0500

When I was an Infantry 2LT in the 82d Airborne Division I never had a desk-I had an extra large rucksack and spent way too much time in the woods. It depends on your MOS/AOC and the type of unit.

Response by SGT Tony Clifford made Feb 1 at 2018 4:42 PM

SGT Tony Clifford — Thu, 01 Feb 2018 16:42:58 -0500

It all depends. Officers do all of the mandatory training events and as a 2LT in a PL position you can expect to be getting dirty on occasion. Generally officers deal with paperwork in garrison. On deployment they do significantly more, but again that depends on your position. If the put you in an S-Shop, you'll only leave the TOC to go to chow or your rack. If you're a PL you along with your PSG will be going on patrols. If you're a company XO you'll be up to your eyeballs in work trying to make sure company logistics and maintenance is adequate.

If you're enlisted, you'll be working your ass off from go. Most NCOs treat SPCs that entered as SPCs similar to privates until they prove that they're responsible enough for responsibly. At this point they might give you a team if they see leadership potential and they're shorthanded. NCOs are responsible for training and most details in garrison. They're also directly in charge of all small unit levels until the platoon sized element. From then the PSG is officially in charge of beans and bullets, but unofficially runs the platoon and trains the LT to be a leader. 1SG is usually in charge of ensuring company level training is conducted and oversees personnel placement within the company. He also largely ensures that subordinate leaders are fulfilling their responsibilities. CSM does the same thing, but for battalions or higher.

Response by SPC David Willis made Feb 1 at 2018 5:27 PM

SPC David Willis — Thu, 01 Feb 2018 17:27:09 -0500

If by down and dirty you mean training you can do that whenever you'd want. If you mean running missions with your dudes there's a very short window (outside of JSOC) where it would be possible to join in on small element raids or patrols as an officer. Like one deployment short. On the enlisted side however you can kick down doors for a majority of your career if that's what you want.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2018 3:17 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 15:17:03 -0500

Aaron-You're going to get a lot of advice on this one, but I'll add in my two cents' worth.

An officer...any officer...in any branch, should put the training, welfare, morale, discipline and mission capability of his soldiers, sailors, airmen or marines above all personal considerations. That sounds like some "ra-ra" stuff, but I've been honored to know more than a few officers who took it to heart. As a JO (junior officer), you're not going to be "behind a desk" much at all. As a new ensign (Navy's version of second lieutenant), most of my time was spent either up on the bridge learning to be responsible for safe navigation (about eight hours min. per day/night), in the "PriFly" (Primary Flight Control tower) coordinating safe helicopter landings/refueling operations (anywhere from three to eight hours per day/night), or doing my primary "job"...ensuring my division and division chief had the tools/information/support necessary to complete the task our thirty-man unit was responsible for on the ship. On the average, when underway, I probably slept less than three hours at any stretch, and not always in my rack. You will unofficially be "banned" from some of the comforts of the "officers' mess" or wardroom by more senior officers (in the Navy), and I assume the Army has similar models of behavior among their officers. I would've sooner been caught with the CO's daughter than caught sitting up in the "office" while my guys were needle-gunning catwalks, PM-ing equipment, or otherwise employed. I cleaned spaces right along side them...starting with theirs, not mine. When I had nothing else assigned, and sleep was impossible, I would ask my chief to teach me things I needed to know.

As a mid-level officer, a lieutenant (equivalent to captain, O-3) serving on the ground in Afghanistan as the "S-3" (operations officer), most days started with briefing then leading an armed convoy, joining longer missions to support the mission of training the Afghan National Army, or spending hours working through interpreters to advise the ANA's officer corps. Between all of that, I had to plan missions, stand watch in the "tower", clean equipment/weapons, attend strategy meetings, and assist in completing various construction and maintenance tasks on the camp. I frequently would be wearing body armor and carrying a weapon right alongside the enlisted men.

If infantry is your choice, then I would presume you can take all of the above and multiply it by some factor to include the arduous training required to join that elite fraternity of soldiers. Before you even put on "butter bars", you'll have been put through some the most difficult challenges you can imagine by highly qualified and experienced NCOs who take training the new officer who will lead their soldiers some day very seriously. My father was an Airborne NCO, and the way he described his company commander, that gentleman was always "in the dirt" with them.

Becoming an officer is a challenge, and your recruiter is likely suggesting educational benefits because one of the major prerequisites is a college education. However, earning a degree while enlisted, let alone deployed is daunting, and I would NOT recommend taking their advice without considering other options to include the ROTC scholarships, or even the service academies...West Point in your case. If you go either of those two routes, I'll be frank...you're already behind the curve, as most applicants will start working for that as freshman in high school. You need excellent grades, high physical fitness, and exceptional evidence of community and extracurricular activity.

If you make it someday, and twenty years or more pass finding you wearing a colonel's "bird" on your collar, let alone a star...you'll definitely rack up some desk time. Truth is, you'll probably see some of that as an O-5, possibly even as an O-4, depending on what staff duties you find yourself in. However, that's a long, long way off...and very few who start out on this road get there.

Focus on deciding what is more important to you; to be an infantryman...or an officer, then the decisions will make themselves.

I wish you the very, very best of fortunes Aaron!

Response by MSG John Duchesneau made Feb 22 at 2018 10:48 PM

MSG John Duchesneau — Thu, 22 Feb 2018 22:48:30 -0500

It depends on what type of job you have. If you are an Infantry platoon leader you will have plenty of opportunities to share experiences with your soldiers. When I went to Infantry OSUT a long time a ago our company commander went through the obstacle course before any of us. He was covered in mud at the end but he showed he was willing to do everything we had to do. That's an example of good leadership.

Response by LTC George Morgan made Feb 26 at 2018 5:13 PM

LTC George Morgan — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 17:13:12 -0500

If your not getting down and dirty your not only not doing your job, you will achieve little respect from your troops because you are not acting as part of the Team. As an Officer, yes, you hold a higher responsibility but you're not there to be "Mr Clean!" Bottom line, you lead not only from the front, but you are the guide, the Intelligence, and the informer of the dirt at the front.

Response by CPL Steve Freeman made Mar 9 at 2018 10:05 AM

CPL Steve Freeman — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 10:05:08 -0500

You can go in as infantry, get the experience, which will be valuable and swap MOS later. Most people I ever knew, including myself had at least 2 MOSs. Enlist if you want now, then you can go to OCS. Or you can go to college and go through ROTC. As an Lt, you'll be in the field for a few years before making it up to flag rank and getting stuck behind a desk.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2018 12:41 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 12:41:53 -0400

One Team...One Fight....just own that and you'll do fine

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2018 1:11 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 13:11:49 -0400

Your leadership style is not defined by your rank. I have seen both. Both enlisted leaders and officers that have led from the front and the rear. Know this: a true leader is the servant of his subordinates.