If the A-10 Warthogs are so useless to the USAF inventory, why are they being sent to Israel as an immediate action airplane?

CSM Charles Hayden — Fri, 13 Oct 2023 10:18:55 -0400

Are they being sent to Israel to assist or as a means of removing them from the USAF inventory?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2023 10:34 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 13 Oct 2023 10:34:44 -0400

Possibly sent for both reasons... use for parts.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Oct 13 at 2023 10:57 AM

CSM Richard StCyr — Fri, 13 Oct 2023 10:57:17 -0400

They are not sexy thus they must be scrapped.

Response by 1SG Russell S. made Oct 13 at 2023 11:14 AM

1SG Russell S. — Fri, 13 Oct 2023 11:14:57 -0400

Cause the USAF knows the F35 can not do close air…even though they say it can do everything wonderfully. The AF says that “Close Forward Air Support” is just a FM definition of something and all of their aircraft can do the job just perfect.

Response by COL Randall C. made Oct 13 at 2023 1:18 PM

COL Randall C. — Fri, 13 Oct 2023 13:18:00 -0400

The A-10s aren't "useless" to the USAF inventory - they are being replaced primarily because they are viewed as a single-role airframe (CAS) and would likely not survive if facing an adversary with modern air defense capabilities and if we didn't have at least a favorable air situation at the time of their employment.

Yes, we (the Army) love them. They became the darlings of the Gulf War, racking up thousands of vehicle kills to include about 1/3 of all tank kills during the conflict. Anyone that has been on the ground when they come in can attest to how close they can deliver accurate CAS to engaged forces - they are basically a slow-flying ordnance factory that we view as being able to chew up whatever is on the ground with the 30mm cannon or by delivering from one of the 11 hard-points carrying the heavy duty stuff if the 30mm doesn't do the job.

On the other side of the argument is that they ARE great - as long as there is no serious threat to them. They are durable, but unlike the popular myth we ground-pounders have about them, they are not invincible. We lost four of them during the Gulf war to 1980s era air defense systems and MANPADS and some others (3?) were taken out of operation because they were too damaged to be airworthy. Even when they were first put into operations (~45 years ago), planners expected to lose every A-10 in the inventory (>700) within a few weeks of combat with the Soviets if they invaded.

However, getting back to the specific question you posed about "why are they being sent to Israel as an immediate action airplane?". It still remains the pre-eminent precision CAS platform we have in our inventory ... as long as there isn't a serious anti-aircraft threat. The anti-aircraft capabilities that are present in Gaza have been very limited so far based on what's been used against the Israeli aircraft. To date the only threat has come from old SA-7s MANPADS although they claim to have more advanced MANPADS such as the SA-18 and SA-24 (again, no evidence of that and only SA-7s have been used against Israeli F-16s).

Note - this isn't new to the region as a squadron of A-10s were deployed earlier this year* at AFCENT's request due to increased tensions from Iranian-backed forces in Syria.
-----------------------------
* https://www.airandspaceforces.com/a-10s-centcom-bolster-air-force-presence/

A-10s Headed to CENTCOM To Bolster Air Force Presence

As the Air Force's focus shifts to the Pacific and Europe, aging A-10s will deploy to the Middle East to support CENTCOM.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2023 6:52 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 13 Oct 2023 18:52:13 -0400

Good question! :)

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Oct 13 at 2023 8:44 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Fri, 13 Oct 2023 20:44:56 -0400

USAF has always disliked them because close air is not as bold as dog-fighting. We in the Army absolutely love them ask any airborne grunt when facing mech/armor.

Response by SGT Juan Robledo made Oct 30 at 2023 3:38 PM

SGT Juan Robledo — Mon, 30 Oct 2023 15:38:41 -0400

Because they're proven to be one heck of an Air Craft, and will Kick Ass

Response by Col Dan Ketter made Oct 30 at 2023 10:11 PM

Col Dan Ketter — Mon, 30 Oct 2023 22:11:28 -0400

Its unfortunate that AF brass always looked down their noses at the A10. And if you ask any grunt from the marines or Army they have always LOVED

Response by SFC William Linnell made Nov 5 at 2023 6:52 AM

SFC William Linnell — Sun, 05 Nov 2023 06:52:46 -0500

I've advocated for the A-10 for decades for the Army to be added to their inventory. Watching them maneuver on targets in Graf. Then in Desert Storm and again in Afghanistan. I professionally know how effective they are when ground units are in a TIC. I have listened to the chatter of the ground commander talking with the A10 pilot. The pilot with eyes on the enemy but gets no permission to engage the enemy for the JTAG who is sitting at Bagram. Too many times this has happened over there. Talk about getting a case of the glow butt.
There needs to be a JTAG trained Soldiers in the Army units with that unit giving the A10 pilots permission not some AF officer miles away from the TIC in their comfortable office. So the Army needs the A10 in its inventory. And to piggy back off that, the Army needs to have operation control of cargo planes.

Response by PO3 Dale Olson made Nov 5 at 2023 3:02 PM

PO3 Dale Olson — Sun, 05 Nov 2023 15:02:24 -0500

The same thinking that said the F4 Phantom didn't need guns or why did they use WW2 planes in Veitham.

Response by PO3 Michelle Tremblay made Nov 12 at 2023 9:49 AM

PO3 Michelle Tremblay — Sun, 12 Nov 2023 09:49:52 -0500

Phoenix just had one in a flyover at Diamondbacks game. They start at the top of my street, so cool to witness

Response by PO3 Dale Olson made Nov 12 at 2023 5:31 PM

PO3 Dale Olson — Sun, 12 Nov 2023 17:31:41 -0500

Just had a brain fart.... How about we rehab some A-10's or build an updated version and let the F-22 or F-35,file cover.
How to pay for them? Cut off foreign aid to few countries.

Response by SSG Douglas Shaffer made Nov 19 at 2023 11:50 PM

SSG Douglas Shaffer — Sun, 19 Nov 2023 23:50:39 -0500

I agree with Col. Cudworth.
The A-10 was almost like a fire and forget weapon but for the Air Force, it was an aircraft of the "Cold War" the armor was mostly to protect the piolet and the engines from small arms fire. Its main job was to bust up tanks coming through the Fulda Gap. Soviet doctrine for Motorized Rifle Recements was to barrel down the road in columns, the A-10 was to take advantage of this by coming over low and slow and destroy as many as the can until empty get back reload ad fuel and go back for some more until they can't. The greatest threat to all aircraft at the time was the ZSU 23-4 (Shilka) and the hope was to catch them in column along with 9K33 Osa (Gecko), Mobile Surface to Air Missile Launcher System, which at least two Geckos would be working in the same area around a ZSU 23-4 working as a unit. This is the reasoning for the A-10 to bust tanks. As an Infantryman during the time if we were to see a ZSU 23-4, it was a mission changer for us, for now it was our main job to destroy it at all costs. Seeing a 9K33 alerted us to the fact a 23-4 was in the area, your job now find it!
The bean counters want to have aircrafts that can fit dual rolls and the A-10 does one thing and one thing only really, really well Close Air Support period! Drop the A-10 by more dual roll F16s that the Air Force swears will have some set aside for CAS missions. Yeah, I bet.
The Air Force has tried to force retire the aircraft by starving its logistics system of replacement parts and higher deployment rate for a rapid decline of the aircraft's system faster. However, the Air Force was caught with their hand in the cookie jar in 2022 for trying this, and now have their "Prunes along with their short and curli's caught in a beartrap!" The A-10is is now going to receiving new wing from Boeing, and will be getting new electronics, sensors and weapons systems to push them into the 2030's. I guess someone told them make it happen or find work elsewhere.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2023 9:01 AM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Dec 2023 09:01:27 -0500

The A-10 is arguably the best close air support platform ever designed. However, its time is coming to an end like all other great warbirds. The A-10 is great for an austere low threat environment like we saw in Afghanistan and Iraq for the past 20 years. They would be great in Africa and South America as well. Against modern air defense systems that a near peer adversary would have, it would have a low survivability rate. The decision of sending to the Middle East again was based on availability not necessarily airframe. A F-16 unit could have easily gotten the call if they were in the bucket.
It is also seen as a single mission aircraft in a time when the Air Force can no longer afford to have single mission aircraft. Can the F-35 do the close air support role? Yes, it can but it doesn't do it as well as the A-10. Can the A-10 do the air-to-air role and other missions of the F-35? Unfortunately, the answer is no. While the troops on the ground love the capabilities the A-10 provides the truth is in Iraq and Afghanistan several other platforms provided close air support effectively enough to show that the A-10 could be replaced. I supported A-10s for 17 years on 5 deployments to Afghanistan and Iraq and love the plane and its missions. Unfortunately, much like the F-4, P-51 and other greats its time has come to an end.

Response by COL Carl Jensen made Dec 14 at 2023 10:29 AM

COL Carl Jensen — Thu, 14 Dec 2023 10:29:51 -0500

Knowing Israel, their A-10s will be super up graded along with advanced tech. Coming soon the Israeli Super A-10.

Response by Sgt Michael Clifford made Dec 14 at 2023 7:58 PM

Sgt Michael Clifford — Thu, 14 Dec 2023 19:58:58 -0500

Do you think that they might be of some use in Ukraine? If nothing else it could demonstrate their survivability against a more modern anti air potential. Best case the Ukrainian pilots would use the to effectivily kill more Russians who are in their country ILLEGALLY.

Response by CA Randall Hughes made Dec 16 at 2023 8:32 PM

CA Randall Hughes — Sat, 16 Dec 2023 20:32:43 -0500

Are they for Immediate use in the Gaza Strip,? Dosesnt seem to be a of Air Defense by Hamas. If The Israelis are Already Trained , i guess it will work out. Ha

Response by SSG Robert Velasco made Dec 16 at 2023 11:05 PM

SSG Robert Velasco — Sat, 16 Dec 2023 23:05:45 -0500

The A-10 is by far one of the most productive means of close air support for troops on the ground and I feel the brass want to spend funds like drunkards so they chose the warthog

Response by AN Ron Wright made Dec 17 at 2023 5:15 PM

AN Ron Wright — Sun, 17 Dec 2023 17:15:25 -0500

they are fantastic planes wish i had the opportunity to work on them

Response by SSgt Stuart Schultz made Dec 21 at 2023 11:01 AM

SSgt Stuart Schultz — Thu, 21 Dec 2023 11:01:33 -0500

I can spend all day discussing the advantages the A-10 has over the F-35 or F-22. One of the A-10's greatest assets is seldom discussed, its ability to keep flying while severely damaged and its ability to be repaired quickly. All the flight controls are easily repaired and can be swapped from the left to right side of the plane, including the main gears and engines. Then and all the backup systems to keep it flying, including two engines compared to one. Not only can the A-10 fly with severe damage, it has a fast turnaround to get back in the fight. The A-10 saves taxpayers money while doing the job it was designed to do, close air support within an area of air superiority. Bureaucrats have an issue with A-10's, its always been that way.

Response by Cpl Lester Lachappelle made Jan 15 at 2024 1:20 PM

Cpl Lester Lachappelle — Mon, 15 Jan 2024 13:20:21 -0500

Useless lol personal experience in Desert Shield/Storm calling air strikes on enemy vehicles and equipment I’d always prefer the A10 to cut me a path. Yes they are slow compared to other jets, but that beast puts fear in men’s hearts. Hell it put fear into my heart just hoping they didn’t start strafing to soon. Hell the sound of that 30 mm gun had many Iraqis turning and trying to run away

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2024 11:35 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Jan 2024 11:35:57 -0500

Having seen them in action, the word “worthless” will NEVER come out of my mouth.

Response by SSgt William Blanshan made Jan 28 at 2024 2:48 PM

SSgt William Blanshan — Sun, 28 Jan 2024 14:48:02 -0500

The only person I've heard say that they're useless was that brain dead boob "Maverick", John McCain. He tried to get them cancelled, for some reason. The A-10 is an incredible weapon system and is incredibly usefull.

Response by SGT Robert Martin made Feb 4 at 2024 4:12 PM

SGT Robert Martin — Sun, 04 Feb 2024 16:12:12 -0500

The a10s CAS isn't helpful to the AF, but as a soldier that has had the luck of being supported by by them on several occasions. They are not just effective they are intimidating as hell. Haji hates helicopters but they truly fear the A10. On one occasion as soon as the A10s showed up haji broke contact. The A10 didn't fire a single round never even came in low. They literally had just Gotten in the area circled overhead two maybe three times.

Response by COL Eric Rojo made Feb 4 at 2024 5:49 PM

COL Eric Rojo — Sun, 04 Feb 2024 17:49:34 -0500

the USAF (or the mistake of '47 as I call it) doen't care about CAS and anything that happens bellow 10,000'. The A-10 is an Army aircraft, companion to the Apache. The reason it has not gone away is that many of us, but most important, members of Congress know the value of this Infrantry support and unique tank killer. Whoever has them will own the battlefield at the tactial level

Response by TSgt Louis Nieves made Mar 7 at 2024 11:32 PM

TSgt Louis Nieves — Thu, 07 Mar 2024 23:32:05 -0500

as ex air force ive seen what a a-10 csn do to a target. in vietnam wr had the syraider(the dump trucks) slow prop plane but deadly ive seen the a-10 on the gunnery range in ga. if youre ate enemy you font want to hear that 30.mm canon. sounded like azipper opening up the targets!

Response by TSgt Louis Nieves made Mar 7 at 2024 11:33 PM

TSgt Louis Nieves — Thu, 07 Mar 2024 23:33:57 -0500

a-10 warthog can kick it ive seen them in action!

Response by PVT Mark Campbell made Apr 5 at 2024 3:35 AM

PVT Mark Campbell — Fri, 05 Apr 2024 03:35:10 -0400

I don't care, I want one!!!!!

Response by MSG Thomas Currie made Apr 5 at 2024 2:09 PM

MSG Thomas Currie — Fri, 05 Apr 2024 14:09:25 -0400

Who came up with the crazy idea that A-10s are being sent to Israel at all??

The unit this clickbait nonsense is talking about is the 354th Fighter Squadron, that deployed shortly before the Hamas terrorist attack. Yes, they are in the "Middle East" supporting CENTCOM.

While the Air Force does not release the specific locations of deployed units, A-10s from the 354th have been observed at Al Dhafra Air Base in the United Arab Emirates.

Bottom line: no A-10s have been given, lent, or sent to Israel.

Response by Lt Col Warren Domke made Apr 6 at 2024 9:52 PM

Lt Col Warren Domke — Sat, 06 Apr 2024 21:52:44 -0400

I don't think anyone in or out of the USAF considers them "useless." A big problem for any high tech service is the cost of maintaining large inventories of weapon systems. The A-10, as has been noted, was designed to be used in an environment where our side had control of the air. In a more contested environment they would be vulnerable to a number of threats, a disadvantage also shared by heavy attack helicopters. If we have the luxury of keeping an inventory of fighters like the F-16, F-18, F-15, et al, the A-10 as well as the choppers would have a much friendlier environment in which to operate. The question is can we afford this luxury? Add to that the fact the A-10 is an aging system more subject to breakdowns and failures and the service is right to look at alternatives.

Response by 1SG Dean Mcbride (MPER) (CPHR) made Apr 7 at 2024 11:30 PM

1SG Dean Mcbride (MPER) (CPHR) — Sun, 07 Apr 2024 23:30:24 -0400

The A-10's GAU-8 30 mm rotary cannon is arguably its most famous feature. Mounted in the nose, this Gatling gun is one of the most powerful fitted to an aircraft to date. Its rapid bursts are responsible for the A-10s famous raspy sound, which comes from its seven barrels firing 65 rounds per second. The A10 thunderbolt aka warthog, was not available in Vietnam - I would have loved to have seen it in action there! If nothing else, it would have scared the hell out of Charlie!
The first prototype flew in 1972, the first production aircraft flew in 1975, and deliveries commenced in March 1976, or in other words, the USAF did not officially accept the type until about 11 months after the war in Vietnam ended (April 30, 1975).