If the distance for the PT test run was 2.13 miles, am I still allowed to dispute it and request a retest?

2017-05-03T20:09:03-04:00

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made May 3 at 2017 8:22 PM

2017-05-03T20:22:41-04:00

If I was you, I'd start with your First line Supervisor - NCO. Bring the facts, suggest facts get checked with the Training NCO. Have your proof in hand and tell how you measured.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2017 8:32 PM

2017-05-03T20:32:19-04:00

FM 7-22 lays out the basic requirements for an APFT testing site. There is no requirement to formally survey, but I don't think its unreasonable given the circumstances to request that the site be independently measured by a neutral party using multiple methods to verify the length. If it is really that much longer I'd say that invalidates the test. If the commander has said the road could not be used for testing, why was it used?

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made May 3 at 2017 9:00 PM

2017-05-03T21:00:26-04:00

Don't quote me on this, but I believe they are allowed a +/- 10% variance on the plotted course. So if you're supposed to run 2 miles, as long as the course doesn't go over 2.2 miles, it's still legitimate for scoring.

I recommend look up the order itself. But I heard this from from the guys who typically set up the courses. Of course Marines and Army are 2 different branches, but it never hurts to look it up yourself.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2017 9:37 PM

2017-05-03T21:37:41-04:00

Can't you find a track that has 400 yards I mean old school track and run that instead and see how you do after eight laps? That is how I train for the APFT. I know it's harder to run on the curves which means if you can do your run time on the eight laps you know you can look for damn sure on an accurate 2-mile course because you'll be running mostly straight away anyway. Since you are active duty, too bad you couldn't train with another unit that has a different course that is accurate.

Response by CW5 Sam R. Baker made May 3 at 2017 9:43 PM

2017-05-03T21:43:34-04:00

If you passed that is all that matters, if it came down to a .13 of a mile difference between pass and fail, I think you will have a larger issue with the Army quarterly 4 mile run at the 9 minute pace. I do not like running, but it is a part of the Army life and has been since Jesus was a Private. I was serving with him when I could run a 12:58 two mile. Those days are long gone, but in lieu of dispute, just pass the test and hope that the .13 is dropped next time. Did you use a commercial device to figure it out? When you assess special operations, they take your watch and just say RUN FORREST, RUN and don't stop till the van pulls up and you jump in. At the youthful age of 54, I still don't enjoy running, but since 1987, have never failed a run. It is more mental than physical, so give it some NIKE and Just Do it! My .02

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2017 10:35 PM

2017-05-03T22:35:13-04:00

If the run route is too long then the APFT Aministrator (NCOIC) can verify, however .13 of a mile should not have caused you to fail. If you are right at your minimum time than I would suggest you hit the ground running and get your time down at least 2 min or better. I am 35 years old and still run between 13:00 - 13:18, so if the distance if a little longer I would still pass with no problem. I am not advocating for them to have the wrong distance because at the end of the day there should always be a set and verified standard.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2017 2:05 AM

2017-05-04T02:05:24-04:00

Just wondering; who was your Platoon Sergeant in Charlie company 832nd ORD?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2017 9:57 AM

2017-05-04T09:57:16-04:00

I think your complaint is legitimate and I'd be pissed if my 2 mile course was 2.13. I think you're probably catching flak from your unit because, as you stated in another comment, you ran a 17 minute 2.13 miles (7:58/mile). That equates to a 15:56 two mile time. If you're 21 or younger that's still failing. So while you may technically be correct about the course being off, you're not going to get anywhere if they know you're time was still not passing. Based on that (and the assumption you're not over 21) I'd let this one go. The worst thing that could happen is that they re-measure the course, let you take it again and you still fail it. But 2 seconds can be made up pretty easily and if meant not failing maybe you should keep pressing the issue. Just don't become a nuisance about it. And most of all, LEARN from this, WORK your butt off, and SMOKE the next test. Do that and .13 miles won't be an issue.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2017 1:36 PM

2017-05-04T13:36:22-04:00

First of all, in your case of this is validated that you overran your 2-mile and failed, I'd definitely request a retest. Personnel who were in charge of running the APFT, should have for one: recon/walked the route to its entirety to ensure its legitimacy. What was used to measure the distance? My question is did anyone participate in the test or was it just you? And was it a RECORD APFT? Is your leadership informed of the discrepancy? Because I would've raised a red flag. I mean, I'd raise questions and contact your leadership. If you felt like you got the wrong end of the stick, you have an obligation to question and seek guidance. Whether or not they honor your request, that's on leadership. Just keep doing your best and it'll all work out! Good luck!

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2017 3:23 PM

2017-05-04T15:23:24-04:00

I spoke to my MSG today and they counseled me and told me that I could waive my right to wait 90 days and re take it at anytime I saw fit or simply wait to take another record test when the 90 days had passed. However, the catch with waiving my 90 days is that if i fail, my MSG said he will begin a chapter process. While I have no want to be chaptered or leave the Army at this time, I still feel I'm going to waive it. I'm going to spend the next 2 weeks running tracks as well as the same route and timing myself to make sure I can pass with a solid pace. Then waive and take the record test then.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2017 4:44 PM

2017-05-04T16:44:31-04:00

PFC Private RallyPoint Member the big question is how are you proving that it was 2.13 miles? If so it is not I would say it is not a valid test and open to retest.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2017 7:24 AM

2017-05-06T07:24:12-04:00

I'm absolutely gobsmacked at those who are saying "Hey, if .13 of a mile is the difference between you passing and failing, you've got bigger problems". The standard is the standard, and if the standard is two miles, the standard is two miles....not two miles and one foot.

If you're going to tell me "You must run two miles in X amount of time" and fail me for exceeding the time, when the distance was exceeded, you are not honest.

Response by SPC Johnney Abbott made May 6 at 2017 9:22 AM

2017-05-06T09:22:05-04:00

I guess it would kind of depend on the size of the failure. If it was a few seconds maybe. If it's a few minutes probably not

Response by CW4 Scott Hyde made May 6 at 2017 1:14 PM

2017-05-06T13:14:14-04:00

Go tell that 1SG his PT test is jacked up and you need a do over right now. No matter what happens, stand your ground. I am confident you will have no problem passing the next one.

Response by SPC Robert Styers made May 6 at 2017 1:18 PM

2017-05-06T13:18:29-04:00

An extra .13 miles should only account for less than 40 seconds of run time, if you failed by less than that your unit failed you. However you are failing yourself by allowing your run time to be so close to the borderline.

Response by SGT Bruce Rapp made May 6 at 2017 1:34 PM

2017-05-06T13:34:29-04:00

I understand USAF and Army are 2 different animals. This same issue was brought up to USAF which found most (if memory serves greater then 50%)USAF courses exceeded the required testing difference by order of head of USAF all personal being chaptered, seperated, etc for PT failures were to be re-measured by the senior NCO and officer with uninterested third party witness.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2017 1:57 PM

2017-05-06T13:57:30-04:00

I know we are wussies when it comes to PT, but in the Air Force if you failed a run, you did not have to ask if you could retest. We always retested those individuals.

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made May 6 at 2017 2:10 PM

2017-05-06T14:10:27-04:00

So, probably going to catch hell for this, but yes. If you can prove that the test was farther than regulation prescribes than it is not a valid test. Just as if the parameters for either of the other events is not met they are also reason for the test to be thrown out. Now, trying to do so is another story. Just because you are authorized to challenge the tests validity and the chain should respect the fact that you are right does not mean that they will. This is probably one of those situations where you have to wonder to yourself if the juice is really worth the squeeze bud. I would say that you should just wait the prescribes amount of time and retake the test and pass, but make sure that prior to the test starting that there is proof of the distance of the run event.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2017 2:21 PM

2017-05-06T14:21:53-04:00

I had this happen a few years back to some Soldiers and me during an APFT. The course was measured a little longer than normal and the training NCO was approached about it, he did some Math and re-adjusted everyone's score. It's human error; it happens. Talk with training NCO or an MFT. No need to escalate a minor issue.

On the other hand, what if the course was measured shorter than normal? All of a sudden you have some PT studs and everyone would keep their mouth shut about it so, keep in mind that integrity works both ways. .13 of a mile is not a huge difference but, if you failed by a few seconds it's understandable and worth a resolution. But if you failed by a few minutes then, well, that .13 isn't going to do anything for you.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2017 2:52 PM

2017-05-06T14:52:05-04:00

So for those who have responded that "it's only .13 mi, you should've still passed", here's some perspective. If I was running at a 7:45min/mile pace, I'd hit 2 miles in 15:30. Add .13 miles to that course and I don't finish until 16:31. That's right, it added 61 seconds to my time. Some people just aren't that great at running but are strong, outstanding soldiers. I say we give the guy the benefit of the doubt and uphold the standard. I hope he's running faster than 15:30 on his 2 mile but it's still within the standards and I used that time just to show how the additional distance could affect someone.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made May 6 at 2017 3:48 PM

2017-05-06T15:48:06-04:00

Most units have IG check their course for length and grade. Before you tilt the windmill on this call IG and see if it has Been validated. If IG has checked it, then take your lumps.

Most units on an installation all use the same course and ensure it is correct.

Response by SFC Shane Funkhouser made May 6 at 2017 5:12 PM

2017-05-06T17:12:13-04:00

I think your unit should re-measure the course. If found to be invalid then those p.t. tests are invalid. But here's the truth also. If you failed a run based off .13 miles you need to seriously look at yourself and re-evaluate your effort towards fitness. Some of us hate running we aren't good at it, so unit p.t. is not enough. You may just have to put a little effort in on your own time. I know God forbid we have to do this but sometimes that's what it takes.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2017 8:59 PM

2017-05-06T20:59:53-04:00

I spent 30 yrs taking PT test and sometimes we are not exact in the measurements but that is no excuse, RUN LIKE THE GATES OF HELL ARE ABOUT TO CONSUME YOU and you will be okay. Whining is for wimps and if you made it once and failed by .13 the next time, you were just sagging on your pimpin!!! Get back on that horse and ride it like a warrior, you can do it!! BUT, if you think it was the .13 that got you down, that same excuse will bring you down again! Take a week at the gym, on the elliptical machine (no less than 20 minutes and a rigorous pace) then go run each day, you will surely pass.
Furthermore, You have just discovered that running is your weakness so I advise you to leave your CoC alone and go beat up the pavement, put in the extra work and make it your "Friendome". Love / Hate relationships are bittersweet but they do serve a greater purpose.
Hit me up, if you want tips on how to select shoes, need training regiments and nutritional advice for running improvement.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2017 10:04 PM

2017-05-06T22:04:37-04:00

I'm reading this thread scratching my head. Not at the questions, but at the responses. First off, its pretty interesting that on a RECORD APFT people are saying that .13 miles isnt a big deal. For most runners thats 45-90 seconds depending on running condition. While older Soldiers may not have an issue because the scale they are on gives them an abundance of time to pass the 2-mile, it places a significant burden on the 17-21 year old age group. Also, there should be no question about the integrity of the test. While there is no requirement to conduct a survey every time the test is conducted, the course should be marked based upon a survey of actual distance. Another thing that is often missed is that no part of the course shall exceed a 3% grade. It should be a level surface to the extent possible. Not ensuring these standards is a leadership FAILURE and example of laziness!!! Its ridiculous to blame soldiers for failing a standardized test when the testing apparatus does not meet the standard. .13 may not sound significant, but in terms of time it certainly is. To expand on this, it's not simply a measure of pass/fail. The error brings down the entire units average score. Now you have put the CDR/1SG in the position of explaining a significant drop in the company average at the next Command and Staff.

Response by PFC Shawn West made May 6 at 2017 10:23 PM

2017-05-06T22:23:44-04:00

I get that standards are standards and you should only have to go the 2 miles but I'm guessing the location that you took your PT test is a place that many, many, MANY soldiers have tested and passed before. I'm assuming you failed and rather than training harder, you went out and decided to measure the distance so rather than failing due to lack of physical ability, you wanted to blame it on someone else. .13 of a mile is not a lot and unless you failed by a few minutes, simply picking up the pace a little more, you'd have no problems at all. My first PT test in Basic, I ran 2 miles in 26 minutes. My last PT test, I did it in 12 minutes. If you're going to do this over .13 miles, when are you going to start measuring hair length and telling someone their ruler is off?

Response by 1stSgt Eugene Harless made May 7 at 2017 5:53 AM

2017-05-07T05:53:06-04:00

If and I stress IF the course was measured incorrectly the entire group that took the PFT on that date should be retested. To be honest if you are so out of shape you cant run a little over 2 miles in 16:36 you need to get your butt out and hit the trails. My Grandma can run two miles in that time.... and shes been dead for 27 years.

Response by SFC Anthony Franke made May 7 at 2017 11:24 AM

2017-05-07T11:24:05-04:00

I'm not going to get into the conversation of whether the Soldier has a personal issue of fitness, it is actually kind of irrelevant. What is relevant is having a test that is of standard length. Personally, I liked having a straight stretch of road that I could use a wheel to measure. Failing that, I would use a track that was of a standard length that we could count laps. For some reason, many people preferred roads and hated running track laps. I think it was a mental thing. I could take a Soldier out on a flat, long, straight course I had wheeled out (with a survey wheel, not my car) and many times they would run more than a minute faster on their two mile than on a track they had to do eight laps!

Response by SSG Stephan Pendarvis made May 7 at 2017 11:33 AM

2017-05-07T11:33:17-04:00

If you passed...perhaps not but the standard is 2 miles. So if you ran more and they time you for 2 miles but your time is more because you ran 2.13...then I think that should be adjusted or something...

Response by SFC Steve Ouellette made May 7 at 2017 12:51 PM

2017-05-07T12:51:12-04:00

The question is how did you measure that .13 extra? Did you use a roller or some god enabled device which is not always accurate to measure distance? If it actually was 2.13 you can contest it but in 24 hours after you contest will you be able to pass 2 miles? Might want to ask yourself that. Your COC will probably give your your 24 hour notice for a pt test on the spot and you will have to take it again. If you failed by more than 10-15 seconds you might wanna reconsider. All you will do is cause your COC to resent you and say you are crying about it and you will take another immediately and if you fail, you will take another as soon as allowed to try to process you out on a chapter.... just think about if it is worth it all for .13

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2017 1:30 PM

2017-05-07T13:30:35-04:00

Technically, yes. Two miles is supposed to be two miles. It would be the same effect if the distance was say, 1.79 miles, and everyone had all-star run times.

At the same time, if you're that much on the fringe of passing and failing, yes, there are other issues you need to work on. But short answer, yes, you do have a legit gripe.

Response by CW3 David Bandel made May 7 at 2017 5:30 PM

2017-05-07T17:30:44-04:00

Fail? I felt bad when I didn't ace it (even after 20 years and several injuries). Sorry, try the dictionary for sympathy. None here.

Response by SPC George Long made May 8 at 2017 1:14 AM

2017-05-08T01:14:11-04:00

In todays Army I have no idea how this is handled. But I am however shocked to think that you are allowed 16+ minutes to run the 2 miles. Back in the day you'd run it again , most likely the next day. I assume you get to run in PT clothes. Back in the day we ran I Boots and Fatigues. At Ft. Bragg we ran in the mud, at Ft Gordon and Ft. Leonard Wood in the sand. In Viet Nam the test was to live or die. Again the time allowed just floors me. Now the standard is the standard and if your were tested outside the standard I would follow what ever procedure is required to fix this. No wonder I see so many Fat Service members these days.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2017 8:21 AM

2017-05-08T08:21:20-04:00

If you're gauging the .13 miles from your phone, don't. Get a wheel and walk the track a couple times to verify the distance. Apps and your phone location can be off, all the times I used a phone to monitor my pace and distance on a set course, it was off.

Response by Maj Ken Brown made May 8 at 2017 9:25 AM

2017-05-08T09:25:04-04:00

The testing distance in excess of two miles was approximately 1/8 of a mile. Is there a standard for the course distance? This overage represents approximately 6.5% of the required distance. If a 6-inch bullseye was 6.5% smaller than standard, it would be 5.22 inches in diameter. Therefore, one would need to be shooting at the target from approximately 174m to achieve the same effect as shooting at a 6 inch bullseye from 200m.

If a soldier found that the supposed 6 inch bullseye was only a 5.22 inch bullseye, he'd certainly have a legitimate beef.

The main issue is the Army's distance tolerance for the 2 mile course.

Response by Maj Ken Brown made May 8 at 2017 10:01 AM

2017-05-08T10:01:17-04:00

Measurement for road courses gets a bit sticky owing to measurement variations depending on one's position in the path of the course. Of course, it should be measured and certified based on the shortest distance (inside route) on all turns. Was this taken into account?

Response by SGT Robert Kromminga made May 8 at 2017 1:59 PM

2017-05-08T13:59:02-04:00

My guard unit took the PT test along the beach, was a nice run, but after each test people would complain that the route was to long - 1 mile out, 1 mile back, I admit that the turn around point wasn't good, it was around a corner that you could not see. So I asked to adjust the route - was given the go ahead - moved the start point back and the turn around point was now at the end of a long straight away - you could see it from about the 1/4 mile mark with no problem. I requested a different unit assist with the scoring. After the test - people complained about the route being to long and scores showed ALOT of people failed. So they blamed me - I fought it and asked for somebody else to check it - We had a actual survey team use the wheel and GPS - just like I did, they stated that the track was good to go, but people still complained. I discussed the matter with the new Battalion Commander and we came up with a solution - The Battalion Commander had HQ company conduct the PT test at a regulation track down the street (nobody wanted to go there - and the company command said we could not get permission from the city); we talk to the city and they posted it off limits during our test time with no problem - the BC then had personal come in from recruiting command and division to conduct and supervise the test. Guess what - the scores still showed that people failed.
Goes show that sometimes unit's and people need to be check by an outside source for confirmation.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2017 8:11 PM

2017-05-08T20:11:29-04:00

Not knowing Army regulations I guess you could use your Chain of Command to seek a retest. You have to be able to do that from a position of strength though. Being that close to the limit does not do that for you. I agree that a standard should be just that but I don't know how the order reads. I also know from experience that most leaders are going to encourage you to not place yourself in jeopardy by being so close to the acceptable standard. Know yourself and seek self-improvement. Get on the PT trail and improve your run time so you won't be in this situation again. As to the retest, be careful what you ask for. You might get more than you bargain for. Even though your efforts to rectify this may be well-intended, it may give others an impression of you that will be hard to work your way out of. The boss may not always be right, but he/she is always the boss. You'll gain more by chopping a minute or two off your score than by pushing the envelope.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2017 3:14 AM

2017-05-09T03:14:46-04:00

So, did you pass the retest or not?

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 11 at 2017 1:06 PM

2017-05-11T13:06:56-04:00

we've all fought that battle bro

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 11 at 2017 1:15 PM

2017-05-11T13:15:26-04:00

of course if you can prove your case. that one is null and void

Response by CW4 Scott Hyde made May 18 at 2017 1:37 PM

2017-05-18T13:37:21-04:00

How do you know the course is exactly 2.13 miles?
How much retraining have you done to get ready for your retest?

Response by SFC(P) John McLaughlin made Nov 1 at 2017 4:32 PM

2017-11-01T16:32:22-04:00

If you did not pass the same course that everyone else ran on, the issue is you. Your inability to keep fit and stay current with the task, conditions and standards. Get your ass up and work out. Better yet your PSG abs squad leader should be monitoring your fitness level and deciding if you need some extra PT.

Response by SSG Lyle O'Rorke made Nov 1 at 2017 8:28 PM

2017-11-01T20:28:31-04:00

For those saying that the .13 miles shouldn't matter and are so called NCOs shame on you. Your job is to ensure the standards are meet. The Army standard is a Soldier will score 60 points by completing the 2.0 mile run in equal to the appropriate time for their age and gender. A soldier may be close to failing but a pass is a pass non the less. An APFT run course that is proven to be over two miles is not only setting the Soldiers up for failure but potentially ending soldiers careers. This if true is an example of NCO failure and nothing more those responsible for setting the course should receive reprimand.

Response by SPC Jason Hamilton made Nov 1 at 2017 8:42 PM

2017-11-01T20:42:41-04:00

How'd you measure it? A wheel is the only official measurement.
Otherwise, yes. You only have to pass at 2 miles, and if you are testing for promotion points, that 3 point difference in a hard MOST can be the difference between being promoted or not.

Response by SFC Glenn Kozak made Nov 1 at 2017 9:44 PM

2017-11-01T21:44:01-04:00

While on recruiting duty over 20 years ago, our 1SG had a guy drive his old pickup truck to measure the 2 mile course. Everyone ran faster because it was about a quarter mile short. Best is to run

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2017 9:58 PM

2017-11-01T21:58:47-04:00

I think you have a legitimate reason to challenge the distance if you think it is more than what is supposed to be.

Consider this as well though...most PT test routes that I have been a part of to include NCOES are actually short by a .10 or 160 meters. I'm not saying it is right but if the results were on the flip side would you be complaining?

To alleviate these problems just administer the test on a 400m track. Its already measured and you don't have to worry about downward/upward slopes. People don't like it because they get bored but I think it is easier to pace yourself than a regular run route.

(If ran in Lane 1)
If a 400-meter track is used, the OIC/NCOIC must add an additional 61 feet, 4 inches to the standard 8 laps to ensure the test’s required 2-mile distance is covered. One lap on a 400-meter track is 92 inches or 2.336 meters shorter than one lap on a 440-yard track. Eight laps on a 400-meter track is 736 inches or 18.69 meters shorter than eight laps (2 miles) on a 440-yard tack. Therefore, Soldiers running on a 400-meter track must run an additional 61 feet, 4 inches.
http://www.armyprt.com/apft/test-site.shtml

(If I ran in lane 8)
Now if I run in lane eight for the same distance each line (except for the 1st line) the lap around the track is 8m longer, give or take few cm. In eight lane, each lap is 456m long (7x8m=56m). This is why sprinters have a staggered start on races longer than 200m (because of the curves). Now if you do 56 x 8 (laps) =448 meters extra for a 2 mile. Worst case scenario you are doing a little over a lap extra than everyone else in lane one.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=711876&page=1

My point is if you apply this to a run route with various curves and turns everyone technically is running a different distance. Im not saying that this is the reason the route is long because for all I know this person measured the route with their car. In my opinion someone should always be there with the person measuirng the route ensuring they are doing it correctly and as a witness just in case discepencies happen like this.

I have been looking for this all afternoon in FM7-22 and cannot find it. What is the reg stating you have to use a wheel as a measuring method for pt tests, ruck marches, etc?

Army Physical Readiness Training (PRT) Information

We provide the easiest way to get all the information you need about the U.S. Army PRT Program.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2017 10:11 PM

2017-11-01T22:11:57-04:00

Also, I know we are in the Army and but this is how the USATF certifies all of their road races.

http://www.usatf.org/Products-/-Services/Course-Certifications/USATF-Certified-Courses/Procedures-Manual/Laying-Out-a-Calibration-Course.aspx

Personally I think should be a learning point for the Army to look into. I would advise for MFT's to get certified in something like this. Then they can train others at their unit.

Laying-Out-a-Calibration-Course.aspx

Response by SGT Adam Winebarger made Nov 1 at 2017 10:31 PM

2017-11-01T22:31:57-04:00

Well if we break this down mathematically, with a 13:00 2-mile equating to a 6:30 mile pace, that extra .13 of a mile at that same pace would add on 50.7 seconds to the final time. That's quite a bit and that number gets even larger the slower you go. Hell, with the extra distance tacked on, a 7:30 mile pace puts you at 15:59, which is failing if you're 18-21.

So yeah, I'd fight that if I was you.

Response by SGT Jim Ramge, MBA made Nov 2 at 2017 1:12 AM

2017-11-02T01:12:42-04:00

Could always use reverse psychology... What is you maxed the PT test and had to retake because it was .13 short? There go those promotion points... Just saying, works two ways now doesn’t it!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2017 8:47 AM

2017-11-02T08:47:02-04:00

If I were your leadership and I put myself in a predicament to wear my troops failed and a PFT on a track that I did not certify, then I would absolutely allow every failure to retest. Individuals may have failed the test, but the leadership failed the individuals first

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2017 2:22 PM

2017-11-02T14:22:27-04:00

I would ask for a transfer if they don’t fix it in a reasonable amount of time

Response by SGT Terry Smith made Nov 2 at 2017 3:43 PM

2017-11-02T15:43:37-04:00

I remember taking one PT test where after the push ups and sit ups we firmed up and double timed to the start line. Was probably only a quarter mile but seriously? Don't set your soldiers up for failure. The standard is the standard.

Response by SSG William Lammott made Nov 2 at 2017 3:54 PM

2017-11-02T15:54:13-04:00

The requirement i had was 2 miles. Not 1.9, not 2.1, 2 miles however, you regardless of your age should always max your pt test. If you simply meet the minimum, your not trying hard enough to "be all you can be".

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2017 5:53 PM

2017-11-02T17:53:13-04:00

My question is why are you cutting it so close?

Response by SGT Aric Lier made Nov 2 at 2017 6:17 PM

2017-11-02T18:17:38-04:00

please do I will see you for remedial training from 1700 -2300 and then again at 0500 until first formation..... we will make sure you crush it next time !!! dude my best pt test ever was the surprise one before I entered pldc.... I drank tequila until 4 am. max push ups /situps for fear of breathing on anyone...... then ran 2 miles in 12 min because I was staying away from the group that kept saying.... who smells like booze. point is get out of the turtle group and run with the jackrabbits and push yourself..... complaining will single you out as one of those guys

Response by SGT Steven Bates made Nov 2 at 2017 8:00 PM

2017-11-02T20:00:54-04:00

Absolutely not.

Response by SGT Richard Lopez made Nov 3 at 2017 1:50 AM

2017-11-03T01:50:31-04:00

That .13 makes it look small, but think of it this way. In order to meet the youngest male age bracket 90pt cut off (from when I was in) of 12:50, you would have to run 48sec faster. For comparison, see how far you can run in 48sec. It's pretty far. I would have been screwed. I was always a sprinter my whole life, and no matter what I did, I always struggled to meet that godly pt patch score. Some people just aren't built for long distance speed. Now, let's scale up to the good ol' 8min mile. That .13 equates to an extra min. added to your time, and it just scales up from there. These are big discrepancies. That .13 is an eighth of a mile. Just like customs and courtesies, standards are not to be messed with or skimpied around.

Response by SSG Lon Watson made Nov 3 at 2017 12:05 PM

2017-11-03T12:05:41-04:00

Suck it up buttercup!

Response by MSgt Gregory Loefer made Nov 3 at 2017 1:51 PM

2017-11-03T13:51:06-04:00

Seems to me that if your organization insists on holding everyone to a standard, then they need to ensure that the measuring device they are using is correct. .13 mi = 686 feet, 228 yards, we're not talking "just a few feet." If someone will be subject to administrative sanctions for failing their run, the reason shouldn't be because someone couldn't be bothered to get the distance right.

Response by SPC Sharra Schwartz made Nov 3 at 2017 2:20 PM

2017-11-03T14:20:11-04:00

When you read "2.13", it sounds small, until you do the math and realize that it's almost another 700 feet. So many times (not all, but many), I crossed the line right on the last second. Unless running at a higher altitude, which I grew up in, I was terrible at running. Good at so many things, but just not running! Kudos, PFC, for checking into the rest of the Unit and trying to get accountability from Command to all your fellow soldiers. I know rocking the boat can make you unpopular, but without someone willing to do so, all sorts of major and minor mistakes can go unchecked.

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Nov 3 at 2017 2:54 PM

2017-11-03T14:54:46-04:00

If you passed the run and did very well overall in your PT score, I say leave it alone. In twenty years, whether you make the military a career or not, IT won't make a "hill of beans" difference. You'll be lucky if YOU remember that score.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2017 3:20 PM

2017-11-03T15:20:27-04:00

Yes you can, but do it appropriately and also again if you failed, all you had to do was run a little bit faster, if your a PFC, assuming younger, shouldn't be passing by seconds like that. You need to better prepare yourself for test. Not agreeing with it being longer then it's supposed to. It would honestly be in your best interest to let it go and keep working out.

Source: APFT Coordinator

Response by SGT Charles Palmer made Nov 3 at 2017 4:34 PM

2017-11-03T16:34:12-04:00

Pass it and then you have a leg to stand on about contesting it because 0.13 should not be enough to make you fail your run! You should consistently Run 2 miles in less than 14 minutes and if you know you can run 2 miles in 14 minutes consistently, and it takes you longer than 14 minutes to finish you know there's a problem!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2017 5:19 PM

2017-11-03T17:19:17-04:00

First of all, the track must meet the standards for two miles. Not 2.1, 2.13 or any other number than 2.0.

Second, if you are training to meet the standards, you are wrong. You need to train to exceed the standard.

Response by CPL Sean Stout made Nov 3 at 2017 9:32 PM

2017-11-03T21:32:49-04:00

POG's LMAO!!!!

Response by SGT Eric Bishop made Nov 4 at 2017 12:28 AM

2017-11-04T00:28:21-04:00

I think thy get madder for you makeing excuses

Response by PV2 Duane Schlender made Nov 4 at 2017 10:06 AM

2017-11-04T10:06:39-04:00

Ok.. I have to respond to this...
Listen, the physical fitness test should be followed according to rules established. However, there is a greater concern here. If your in combat, are you going to sue the enemy for shooting you .13 feet before you got to safety? That .13 mile should not be an issue if your properly fit.

I HATE excercise. I hated it growing up, hated it in the army, hate it now... But im also smart enough to know that its important for a soldier.

If I was said soldiers command structure, I would look at the fitness reps for that soldier and find the common denominator. .13 of a mile is stupid to contest, when, during combat, you may need to run 15 miles or get your ass shot off. Period.
If you can't pass the test, do the military a favor and kindly leave like a proper team player, or suck it up and improve so your not the weak link that gets your unit killed as they try to save your sucking wind weak ass.

Im very serious. I hate running worst of all. But im not going to blame the military because im whiny about .13 miles. While your whining, someone is in combat running for their lives and may have to come back and pick your shot up ass off the ground and carry you that .13 miles at a dead run.

Think about what your doing and not doing. Your not entitled to pass a fitness test simply because you can write good legal words.

Pass your test, improve, pass it better, or move over for those that want to succeed and be true team playing soldiers.

Response by PVT Jeromy Markin made Nov 4 at 2017 10:53 AM

2017-11-04T10:53:32-04:00

When I was in during my early 30's right after deployment I still managed in the 14 minute range... the extra .13 mile should be adressed at some point but you should be able to maintain good enough fitness for it not to be an issue...

Response by SFC Adam Knecht made Nov 4 at 2017 1:59 PM

2017-11-04T13:59:18-04:00

How did you verify the distance??? If the answer is anything other than a walking wheel I’d say you’re outa luck.

Response by SPC Wanda Vergara-Yates made Nov 4 at 2017 2:08 PM

2017-11-04T14:08:55-04:00

I was ask them to measure out the course before retesting, but personally, in your case, I think taking the flag and working your tush off so that you turn your weakness into your strength. Do what you have to do. When I joined up I couldn't do one good pushup, and I was known for always coming in last on a run in high school. I joined up after having 2 kids, so my body wasn't as spry. That being said, I found ways to get better at everything my body was not so great at. I did PT on my own in addition to the unit workouts to improve my pushups and sit ups nightly, and as often as I could get away, I ran distance, sprints, steps, hills, and any other variation to strengthen those muscles. Within a couple years, I was seen as one of the unit's top runners, and kept that standard until I had a wee fall the wrong way and the doctor told me I shouldn't run anymore, or jump, or anything else. After that, it was either the profile platoon or leave military service. When I couldn't walk at all after trying to run 1.5 miles, I decided I should leave. Bottom line: If you want to stay in badly enough, do what you have to do to get through this. If not, save everyone the hassle and leave. Piddling over the extra distance (even if it is your right) will not help you get along any better in your unit. Once they decide you are a problem child, deserved or not, they will not change their opinion of you. If they can't railroad you on the PT they will keep looking for something else even if they have to frame you for it. Yes, it happened to me. No, it wasn't fun. But yes, I survived and came out on top.

Response by SPC Christopher Renkel made Nov 4 at 2017 4:16 PM

2017-11-04T16:16:23-04:00

Not to be that guy but at a 7 minute pace a 10th of a mile is 42s. Big difference between maxing a 13 minute 2 mile and getting at or below 80%. The standard is 2 miles. Everyone would be signing a different tune if it was 1 mile 8/10th’s.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2017 8:08 PM

2017-11-04T20:08:48-04:00

As leaders we have a responsibility to hear any and all complaints from lower enlisted soldiers. If this soldier used a walking stick and measured the course at 2.13 miles the least command should do is order someone go out and remeasure the course with a witness present. If the standard is 2 miles in X amount of time and you fail because the course was actually 2.13 miles then the test should be null and void plain and simple. The standard is 2 miles. Not 2.01...2. We shouldn't be criticizing a young soldier solely for questioning the legitimacy of a test. Especially if no one in his/her command is willing to determine if they are correct.

Response by SPC Denton McLaughlim made Nov 4 at 2017 8:14 PM

2017-11-04T20:14:32-04:00

I recall the entire company had to redo a or test once over the 2mr distance accuracy.
.13 miles, if you failed by mere seconds, it's well worth the retake. If you failed by much more, this may be the time needed to work your tail off to shave down your time.

I struggled with running my entire time in. I passed, failed, passed, failed. Always super close on the time when I did manage a pass.
Not for lack of effort, I literally broke myself contributing to push past injury to overcome the time barrier standing between my success and I.
Now that I'm out I have returned to cycling. I don't run unless something is chasing me.

I had some crappy leadership do nothing but berate me and accuse me of not trying. I had other great leadership help me any way they could. I had several phenomenal leaders help me improve my running form. No wonder I couldn't run, they said, I ran like an unbalanced washing machine. The form correction did truly help me and to this day I appreciate the ncos that truly cared.

Best of luck to you PFC Herrera. From someone who struggled with this one aspect of Army life, I truly hope you are able to overcome this.

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made Nov 4 at 2017 8:46 PM

2017-11-04T20:46:49-04:00

Whine whine. Standards are applied and expected to be met. Can a soldier dispute a lawful command and expect reasonable redress during combat? No!

Response by SPC Korey Kilburn made Nov 4 at 2017 10:06 PM

2017-11-04T22:06:36-04:00

So give him an immediate retest on a remeasured track. See if he passes or fails.

Response by TSgt Kirk Crabtree made Nov 4 at 2017 11:29 PM

2017-11-04T23:29:17-04:00

I think you should put on your Big-Boy Pants and keep up with the others that PASSED....

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2017 3:46 AM

2017-11-05T03:46:31-05:00

Well that's what IG is for, I don't really worry about APFTs cause I mean, the bare minimum is not good for me. I don't even know what the minimum is. Always concentrate on what the max is and try and get that.

Response by Pvt Greg Fanelli made Nov 5 at 2017 9:26 AM

2017-11-05T09:26:07-05:00

And this is exactly why I joined the Marines. Fucking weak pussy bitch

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2017 9:35 AM

2017-11-05T09:35:37-05:00

It really doesn't matter if you failed or not, yes any APFT perceived as improperly administered can be challenged. Just make sure your challenge is valid. Check,check and re-check. People kill me with that if they made you fail blah, blah, blah. I've got 18 years in and 61 points has been exceeding the standard the entire time. Do the right thing and lead and this soldier wouldn't have an issue of exceeding the standard or running more than 2 miles on an APFT

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2017 10:20 AM

2017-11-05T10:20:54-05:00

Doesn't matter, the standard is the standard. If it was over 2 miles then measure and retest. If we ask our subordinates to adhere to the standard then we should as well.

Response by MAJ Eric Elliot made Nov 5 at 2017 10:24 AM

2017-11-05T10:24:31-05:00

I suggest you ensure that you are correct in your assessment and measure it by running it 4-6 times per week for the next several weeks. Then, retake your PT test.

Response by 1SG John Highfill made Nov 5 at 2017 6:44 PM

2017-11-05T18:44:52-05:00

The standard is 2 miles period if you failed because of that extra distance you better pass the retest and make sure it’s measured with a walking wheel

Response by SGM Raymond Ebbets made Nov 6 at 2017 3:32 AM

2017-11-06T03:32:54-05:00

What if it was 1.87 miles? Hmm

Response by Cpl Daniel Bowles made Nov 6 at 2017 9:12 AM

2017-11-06T09:12:45-05:00

This is what I say you new the military standards when you went in if you can't keep up with the standards just keep failing them and they will separate you because they don't need you wtf is it like thinks carl you fucked it up for everyone you can't run 2 miles we can fight for our country now think you carl I swear just do what is excepted of you and move on or get the fuck out POS

Response by CPL David Stevens made Nov 6 at 2017 10:09 AM

2017-11-06T10:09:16-05:00

That's about 230 yards which isn't short but also is not long. But if you are cutting it that close to passing then the issue isn't the distance. In the eight years I served I did not fail one run and I was considered over weight. Maximum effective range of an excuse (such as distance?) Is and always will be zero

Response by SPC Loaner Spaugh made Nov 6 at 2017 11:08 AM

2017-11-06T11:08:32-05:00

Suck it up buttercup ....... its just a total of 2 blocks ..... its all in your head how long .13 of a mile is

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2017 11:31 AM

2017-11-06T11:31:24-05:00

If the course truly is not up to standard, change it. As far as a retest? I'm sure they'll retest you anyway for failing. I'd push for an evaluation of the running course and work on your endurance. Don't run 2 miles run 3 or 4 and throw in some sprints.

Response by SGT Rickey Williams made Nov 6 at 2017 11:32 AM

2017-11-06T11:32:46-05:00

How do you know it wasn't exactly 2 miles, if you failed because of .13 miles you need to be doing extra training anyway.

Response by SFC Sarah Garcia made Nov 6 at 2017 11:40 AM

2017-11-06T11:40:02-05:00

You need to be in shape regardless.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2017 11:53 AM

2017-11-06T11:53:54-05:00

The standard is the standard. For everyone that is saying "you've got bigger problems if your failing because of .13 miles," the 2 mile is just as much a standard as the pt standards themselves. I'm pretty sure that you 300 hundred soldiers out there are extremly proud of all the work you have put in to get yourself to that point. So adding another minute to your run time would be a pretty good hit wouldn't it? Just as much hurt as someone that would have passed with a minute to spare, actually failing by a minute because of a mistake. Standard is standard. If you adhere to one, you have to adhere to them all .

Response by SGM Gary Weyant made Nov 6 at 2017 12:57 PM

2017-11-06T12:57:12-05:00

2 mile is the standard and you can dispute it and win every time

Response by PO1 Barbara Matthews made Nov 6 at 2017 1:13 PM

2017-11-06T13:13:49-05:00

It may be a technical discrepancy. The test should be fair and honest for everyone. If you challenge it then you better be right or it will backfire.

The command expects the SM to preform to standards. The SM should have the right to expect command to be fair about those expectations.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2017 1:56 PM

2017-11-06T13:56:57-05:00

Everyone’s assuming it’s because of a failure. If it came down to (not) maxing the run because of .13 of a mile extra, I’d be pissed too.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2017 2:22 PM

2017-11-06T14:22:45-05:00

Yes! We hold soldiers to standards and preach standards. You're talking about something that can end a career. The test is 2 miles, a tenth of a mile is a big difference in time. If you can prove the course is not measured correctly then the test is not valid. But you have to be certain. Measuring with your car won't work. You need the measuring wheel.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2017 3:32 PM

2017-11-06T15:32:34-05:00

Now a days the run is missing judged all the time. Cause most units don't use the correct measuring distance tools to correctly measure a running distance. They use cars. Cars have a variance of distance in the computer which a calculates how far u drive. That variance can make the run shorter or longer. Depending on in the car is newer or older, truck or sedan, etc. To properly measure a running Ning distance the distant rollers are the proper way to do it. If u use the wrong equipment you cheat your soldiers. The distance for .13 miles is 686.4 feat. That's an extremely long variance. For a soldier who isn't strong at running and only can do the minimum or a Lil better you just fucked your soldier over. Or that pt gooroo who tries to get 100%, u just screwed your soldier. My last unit had almost 900ft added to the run cause they used a vehicle. When I growing up my dad told every tool had a purpose & every situation had a tool just for it. Use the proper equipment for the job. U don't use a hammer an oil leak. The person who asked if in this thread has the right to challenge it. Yes he does have the right to challenge. Almost 700ft is a lot of extra distance to be added. Will the 2 mile be perfect no. But it should only be a few ft shorter or longer due to area used not 686.4 ft added.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2017 5:28 PM

2017-11-06T17:28:25-05:00

What a pussy, too easy just do it!

Response by SPC David Willis made Nov 6 at 2017 6:38 PM

2017-11-06T18:38:06-05:00

I'd love to know if everyone saying it's only a tenth of a mile suck it up, would on the flip side give someone a pass for failing by 5 seconds or one push up. I mean if we're not holding leadership to the standards, can't expect soldiers to follow...

Response by SPC David Willis made Nov 6 at 2017 6:48 PM

2017-11-06T18:48:19-05:00

People are also missing the point that soldiers who use this track aren't being evaluated equally with their peers. Let's say platoon A runs on a track measuring 2 miles exact and platoon B runs a road course at 2.1 miles. If the stud of each platoon finishes the test at 12 minutes flat than platoon B stud will have ran further than the stud from platoon A. Now when the commander looks at these guys he will view them equal, when really the guy from platoon B is more fit. This can impact promotions and awards and that should never be the case.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2017 7:11 PM

2017-11-06T19:11:12-05:00

I had a Commander that if you were below 70% in any event or within 2% body fat, you were put on the Commander's physical fitness to help mitigate Soldiers from failing. Nothing went on record.

Response by 1SG Branden Millican made Nov 6 at 2017 9:29 PM

2017-11-06T21:29:03-05:00

Yes

Response by SGT David Nicholas made Nov 7 at 2017 1:11 AM

2017-11-07T01:11:04-05:00

Seriously? If you were in combat trying to get away from artillery or gun fire, do you really think the enemy is going to show you mercy because you quit after 2 miles? Tell that to the Rangers that served in Somalia in 1993? If you can't handle. 13 miles you don't deserve to wear the uniform!

Response by SSG Irvin Perkins made Nov 7 at 2017 8:21 AM

2017-11-07T08:21:13-05:00

What needs to be stop is discriminate on the PT's test. When people talk about the standard than they need to follow the Regulations themselves. A good leader will take time out to prepare his people under his Commands by giving a pre-PT's test . They need to leave out let see who we can mess over and you the Failure of the PT test to kick someone out of the military. For example, a female Staff Sergeant was told she fail the two miles run but a Specialist Four female who came in behind her pass the Two miles run. That Staff Sergeant female was a lawyer, later on got commission to the rank of Capital, after going through Military Judiciary Training, she became Major in Rank. Those who lied about her PT's test pay the price

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Nov 7 at 2017 8:27 AM

2017-11-07T08:27:47-05:00

If the SM's CoC won't entertain the request then everyone cab start adhering to the youngest age group APFT standards, 17-21.

Response by SGT Steven Allen made Nov 7 at 2017 8:56 AM

2017-11-07T08:56:20-05:00

When I was the Training NCO, and even as a Squad Leader, I always noted that the men who were most likely to fail were the same ones who asked what were the minimum numbers to pass on push-ups, sit-ups and 2 mile run. I always told them to shoot for the maximum.
If you shoot for the stars and only hit the moon you have made progress.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 7 at 2017 9:08 AM

2017-11-07T09:08:28-05:00

I saw a case at Fort Gordon where the 1/3 mile track start and stop point equalled a distance barely over two miles. A Soldier got a failed run thrown out and equally importantly got the start and finish points adjusted and properly marked. Pass fail and distance have to be as cut and clear as the regulations covering them.

Response by SGT Clark Ridenour made Nov 7 at 2017 12:06 PM

2017-11-07T12:06:24-05:00

Just suck it up and run faster, I'm 56 with a complete knee replacement I loved/hated running but when I ets from the Army I ran half marathon 13.5 miles in 111 min I was pretty proud of that

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 7 at 2017 12:24 PM

2017-11-07T12:24:11-05:00

If you are complaining about .13 mile to pass you are already a FAIL at this station. Because you were already huffing and puffing your way to the finish line. Maybe alittle less jerking off would help you keep the extra testosterone to have the strenght and pace to pass the damn thing. I was 49 when i took my las PTT Tes and i past it with flying colors. And had time to some a cigarette before the others made it to the finish line. Take your unadultarated sorry behind to the track and start running FOREST GUMP

Response by CPL Jay Strickland made Nov 7 at 2017 5:02 PM

2017-11-07T17:02:42-05:00

Measure it and show your chain of command proof. You need something more accurate and readable. Trust your chain of command to be reasonable. They have incentives to minimize pt failures.

Response by 1SG Rob Smith made Nov 7 at 2017 6:21 PM

2017-11-07T18:21:41-05:00

30 year retired 1SG here. If he wants a retest and he feels ready let him do it the next day. Get the nipple out of your mouth! You should always able to pass when ordered to take it

Response by SGT Jake Pannell made Nov 7 at 2017 7:18 PM

2017-11-07T19:18:53-05:00

And hence the problem with the new army. Just run faster and suck it up

Response by Sgt Pete Lentz made Nov 7 at 2017 8:19 PM

2017-11-07T20:19:52-05:00

Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, in the military needs to run and pass a PT. 2.13 mile ISN'T a mile stone that isn't impossible to do. When you can't run that little extra it means you are seriously out of shape and need to work on your strength and endurance. GOOD LUCK

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 7 at 2017 8:50 PM

2017-11-07T20:50:38-05:00

FIrst off you should be able to pass even if it’s 3 Miles. Stop doing the bear minimum.

Response by PVT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 7 at 2017 8:53 PM

2017-11-07T20:53:12-05:00

The .13 shouldn't matter if you meet the time on the 2 mile run (time depending on the age group you're in) if you can beat the maximum time within your age group that .13 extra shouldn't matter at all!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 7 at 2017 8:58 PM

2017-11-07T20:58:16-05:00

Run more. Stop striving for the bare minimum!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 7 at 2017 9:37 PM

2017-11-07T21:37:39-05:00

Get a wheel and check it. There is a lot of information missing for me to give my exact thoughts , but if you failed and they are trying to do actions on you yes retest. Given how the Army holds PT tests in higher regards than job performance at the Junior levels in particular... yes retest. Any of us been around for a minute knows when it comes to who is going to the board the first thing is PT score. Once again without full details this is just my 2 cents.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 7 at 2017 11:01 PM

2017-11-07T23:01:30-05:00

Ok let's say that .13 is not that much. Just do the math real quick .13 miles is a little over an eighth of a mile which is a little over 200 M if you're bitching because we should be off by 200 M on a PT test you're dead wrong the Army standard is 2 miles not to Miles and 1/8 knot to mile and a quarter it is 2 miles so yes you should dispute it and if your command is worth their weight in salt they will make sure that it gets checked and have you rerun it if you fail it the second time at 200m or at 2 miles that's on you but if you fail because they added 200 M to your PT test that's on them

Response by SFC Phillip Allen made Nov 7 at 2017 11:38 PM

2017-11-07T23:38:44-05:00

Unless I missed something, there is no explanation of the why's or how's of the matter, and unless you were there, second guessing what the soldier said is pointless, because you weren't there. I can tell you, from my experience, I have run on courses longer than 2 miles, because of routing and other variables, including laziness, and to imply this occasion is indicative of this soldier's character or heart is BS. The standard is the standard. Period. If the test was incorrectly conducted, then the soldier is authorized to retest at the correct difference. Period. By saying the added distance is no big deal, then I guess, we should just add 5 pushups to the standard just because we feel like it at the time, right?

Response by LCpl Troy Gwyn made Nov 8 at 2017 12:46 AM

2017-11-08T00:46:13-05:00

If you failed... that would explained why you joined the Army. The Marine Corps run is 3 miles.

Response by SSG Dennis Grossmann made Nov 8 at 2017 1:52 AM

2017-11-08T01:52:01-05:00

Standards are standards. Of running 2 miles in x amount of minutes is the standard and you normally pass with only seconds to go. The course being .13 miles too long set you up for failure. Not everybody is a runner. Personal experience; I was a 6:30-7:00 mile until back and leg injuries had me passing by seconds. If they lengthened the course for schools then the tests should be diagnostic.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2017 8:14 AM

2017-11-08T08:14:27-05:00

It is not the best option to pass an APFT with the minimum standard because that is a clear indicator of the poor perseverance and absence of preparation. In the end, the standard has a minimum and the minimum is 60% in a two miles run (not longer).

Response by MSG Gene Bruseau made Nov 8 at 2017 1:06 PM

2017-11-08T13:06:06-05:00

If it was 2.13 miles and not two miles it's wrong. Whether the guy should have passed anyway is beside the point. What is even a bigger issue is that the entire unit's run scores are invalid. What about the guy who missed maxing the test by 10 seconds? He passed but was screwed out of a max score and a great NCOER bullet. How about the guy trying to get promotion points. There is a bigger picture.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2017 1:12 PM

2017-11-08T13:12:00-05:00

The difference in .13 miles can add up to a minute or more. Passing is passing. But what about NCOs and the points they get for a PT Score? Maybe that 1 minute is the difference between a 300 and something less? That can cost a unit award for that soldier.

Response by SSG Fred Dugena made Nov 8 at 2017 1:35 PM

2017-11-08T13:35:01-05:00

In my day we had to run it in old school black combat boots and fatigues with a t shirt. Maybe just train a little harder.

Response by SPC Rafael Lopez made Nov 8 at 2017 3:05 PM

2017-11-08T15:05:11-05:00

Huh?..you run what theyvall you to run and then state your case.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2017 4:28 PM

2017-11-08T16:28:49-05:00

As I was told as a young troop and passed it on to my troops, always train like you are going to have a bad day on a pt test. To others out there put yourself in this soldiers boots and ask yourself what is a reasonable outcome. To those of you who have never had a bad APFT day, don't worry it will come. I never failed a PT test but I definitely had some that were worse than others.

Also since we only have a certain angle or point of view of the story, I would entertain the exact details of how this came about.
Then you have the crusty old SFC in me say- Don't worry troop you will get to take it again, one way or another.

Response by SPC Ron Giampapa made Nov 8 at 2017 6:21 PM

2017-11-08T18:21:54-05:00

Toughen up. Mustn’t be Airborne

Response by PO1 George Bouchard made Nov 8 at 2017 7:17 PM

2017-11-08T19:17:37-05:00

Sorry dude you are not entitled to a re- do. If your CC comes forward and request one for you based on your standing and merit with his company and one is granted that’s one thing but standards are standards you personally have zero power to request one.

Response by Peter La Duc made Nov 8 at 2017 7:41 PM

2017-11-08T19:41:55-05:00

No I'm 57 and am 30 pounds overweight and I could make that run

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2017 7:44 PM

2017-11-08T19:44:18-05:00

Bottom line. The army has an entire manual about how to conduct an APFT. If the run exceeded 2 miles, the 1SG and PSG should give you one the next day on an official 400 meter track. You fail, sorry luck chuck. You suck. But like in the ABN we say, you better pray there is a deficiency if you are a jump refusal or you done son.

Response by SFC Don DuBois made Nov 8 at 2017 8:51 PM

2017-11-08T20:51:57-05:00

The fastest I ever ran the 2 mile was 11minutes and 12seconds. They did make a cadence and it goes like this. Fat boy fat boy why you so fat running down the road with your nose all snotty if you don't know you better ask some body. A little over one tenth of a mile you should of passed it.

Response by SSgt Johnny Cunningham made Nov 8 at 2017 9:12 PM

2017-11-08T21:12:04-05:00

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2017 10:30 PM

2017-11-08T22:30:08-05:00

If you want to be a 60% Soldier for passing, you have bigger problems than .13 miles.

Response by Sgt Scott McCleland made Nov 8 at 2017 11:30 PM

2017-11-08T23:30:59-05:00

I had been involved in an accident during basic at Fort McClellan, the second week of my training.I was placed on profile for a bruised spine.the day before our PT test my profile ended....I pushed myself and passed push ups, set ups and the run, actually besting people who were not injured...some 35 years later I still suffer from the mishap, but I push it...we need to stop with political correct crap and toughen up our troops.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Nov 9 at 2017 1:07 AM

2017-11-09T01:07:44-05:00

Can't say I ever worried about the distance as long as everyone ran the same then We were all in the same boat. Distance running never bothered Me anyway and I always enjoyed it more running against other runners than just going out and running by Myself. Just paced Myself so coming in was the same pace as going out and if I needed a quick dash when the finish line was in sight so be it, I wasn't going to let anybody I had been ahead of during the run pass Me there. I've done runs that had a bit extra distance on it, who cares ? Everyone else ran the same distance.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2017 1:24 AM

2017-11-09T01:24:24-05:00

I know we're talking about the APFT run, but I feel that the standard should be met for all aspects of the APFT, the push ups and sit ups included. They got me on my push ups because I "didn't break the plane". I heard the instructions before every event and correct me if I'm wrong but the standard for push ups is elbow at a 90 degree angle. My 1SG really had it out for me because I have a belly that I just cannot get rid of, even when I was at the correct weight standard I still had a gut. Changed my diet and excersizes more to get rid of it but could not. I got off topic. But my point is the standard when I was in was 90 degree angle for push ups and even though I was doing over 50, I got nailed for not going beyond 90 degrees and only had about 38 or so counted. I'd probably still be in if my leadership didn't fail me when I tried to bring this up to them.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2017 4:34 AM

2017-11-09T04:34:43-05:00

Unless you measured with a wheel, you don't know if their site was accurate. Garmins, and other watches tend to be off by about 100 meters. They can be off worse on a track.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2017 7:57 AM

2017-11-09T07:57:03-05:00

It is in FM 7-22 the requirements for the 2 mile run route.

Response by 1SG Melvin Ray made Nov 9 at 2017 7:06 PM

2017-11-09T19:06:25-05:00

The standard is 2 miles and should be adhered to. If the additional distance caused you to lose signifcant points for your APFT then make an issue of it. If not ruck on. MSG Ray (ret)

Response by SPC Joe Allen made Nov 9 at 2017 7:33 PM

2017-11-09T19:33:50-05:00

He could simply identify as female and score 100 instead of 60. Done.

Response by CPT David Powell made Nov 9 at 2017 8:39 PM

2017-11-09T20:39:01-05:00

If the distance was not 2.0 miles, the entire test is invalid. If the CoC does not support the Standards, maybe they need retraining.

Response by SGM Mike Obrien made Nov 9 at 2017 9:53 PM

2017-11-09T21:53:23-05:00

If you just train just make the minimum in anything, failure is waiting for you

Response by SP5 Larry Morris made Nov 9 at 2017 10:45 PM

2017-11-09T22:45:44-05:00

you either pass or you don't if not putting in the time then no one needs you quit crying train train or get out

Response by SGT Randall Smith made Nov 9 at 2017 11:23 PM

2017-11-09T23:23:05-05:00

If you don't pass you're going to have to retake it anyway. I had to retake the PT test to graduate. I had a hard time on the bars. Why are these guys wearing shorts and t-shirts? We wore boots and fatigues for all PT.

Response by MSG Scott Milne made Nov 9 at 2017 11:30 PM

2017-11-09T23:30:53-05:00

Army standard is 2 miles, no extra feet. Minimum time equals 60 points. 61 points exceeds Army standards. There are many body types and ability. That .13 mile may have allowed him to exceed Army standards. The standards are there for a reason.

Response by PO1 Charles Babcock made Nov 10 at 2017 1:33 AM

2017-11-10T01:33:17-05:00

If you failed it by less than the time it took you to run that .13 miles you might have an argument for taking it over. If you failed it by MORE than that time, you still failed.

Response by SPC Justin Wilbanks made Nov 10 at 2017 2:24 AM

2017-11-10T02:24:04-05:00

I’ve seen a couple hundred Junior enlisted dispute the APFT, and every single one was told: “get the fuck away from me with your Air Force wannabe bullshit” and that’s the end of that..

Response by SPC Jonathan Fretwell made Nov 10 at 2017 9:27 AM

2017-11-10T09:27:53-05:00

Run faster. You should be striving to max your or test all the time

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2017 10:29 AM

2017-11-10T10:29:10-05:00

Yes dispute it, the problem with units who create their own standards is that no one knows what right looks like anymore. I can remember going from one unit to another or one base to another and not having to worry about not being within the standard. TRADOC for example, seems to have its own standard in certain situations that differentiate from the rest of the Army. Things like 2.13 mile runs for a pt test when the standard is 2.0 miles is small but a slippery slope. The 4 mile by 9 minute pace is also problematic because there are females who are allowed longer than 9 minutes per mile to pass their pt test. An example is that I am 37 years old and allowed 18:18 to run my 2 mile time. So if I met the standard for my 2 mile and averaged a 9:09 minute pace over 4 miles, I would fail the 4 miles by 36:00 with a time of 36:36. Though I am within the standard as big Army sees it, I have just failed a policy that I’ve yet to find outlined in FM 7-22. Perhaps I need to re-visit the FM for updates but I’m confident in my knowledge base. The old bullshit of “you can add to the standard but not take away” doesn’t fly anymore either because it is unenforceable via UCMJ. Something I’ve had to point out personally in the past. In the end, pt is an individual effort and the Army has pretty clear cut instructions on how a pt test is to be conducted and if the test is conducted as laid out, then the soldier either passes or fails. If the test isn’t laid out as specified then it is on the integrity of the leadership to ensure that every soldier is given the opportunity to re-take the test under the correct conditions. That’s the professionalism demanded of leaders regardless of personal opinions.

Response by SFC Ernest Schroeder made Nov 10 at 2017 10:48 AM

2017-11-10T10:48:59-05:00

Go to the Engineer BN an get a surveyor's wheel, also called a clickwheel, hodometer, waywiser, trundle wheel, measuring wheel or perambulator is a device for measuring distance. Next measure the course with one of your NCO's. Show your result's to the 1SG, if your right I an sure they will correct it by having you retake you APFT over using new course, and if you are not right well you just failed and got on someone's shit list.

Response by PO3 Grant Skiles made Nov 10 at 2017 11:11 AM

2017-11-10T11:11:15-05:00

I am going to respond in this way. When I was in the NAVY I scored an Outstanding on every PT test. I also was invited to try out for the All Navy Softball team. We were underway and myself and 3 other shipmates could not make the tryouts. Even though I always scored an Outstanding and was athletically inclined I was also a part of the FAT BOY CLUB. My body fat was always just making the standard. I asked and received a chance to be measured when dropped into a water tank. There was a 7% difference to the better than being measured. Since the Navy at the time only recognized the tape measure way to determine body fat. I this fair NO but did I sit there and complain that I am kicking everyone ass in the PT but have to do extra work every day NO. I this soldier all that I can say is quit complaining because if you did not make the time then you have to work harder. The better that you are physically the better off that you will be when you encounter a real hardship.

Response by CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana made Nov 10 at 2017 11:46 AM

2017-11-10T11:46:00-05:00

Most of these responses are in Jest. We had this happen on a Record APFT once, the length was slightly longer and the stretch on one end of the field had an elevation just slightly over 3%. As officers we ran our butts off and made it in time, but a few stragglers got short changed. The MFT adjusted the time for all equally and suddenly all passed, with a few distinctions. Length and Grade of the course does indeed affect time, but it can be corrected at the Unit Trainer or MFT level, so why escalate?

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2017 1:12 PM

2017-11-10T13:12:35-05:00

In the Marine Corps if you fail a run because it was .13 miles longer you basically suck. However it could affect your chance at promotion, and nobody wants that. So if my record or anything is adversely affected because leadership made an error I'd bring it up.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2017 4:22 PM

2017-11-10T16:22:52-05:00

Regulation only allows for an additional one tenth of a mile so this was wrong

Response by Cpl Marshall Roberts made Nov 10 at 2017 6:25 PM

2017-11-10T18:25:04-05:00

i had 2 knee ops on my right knee n 1985, and when i got out i was still running 19 minute for 3 miles, which is what the marines run, i weight 185 pounds and was 28/29 years old and was still running that 19 minutes, so quit ur whning about .13 and jsut run faster for the measly 2 miles that u had to run, and how long did u have to complete, we had a max time of 28 minutes

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2017 7:44 PM

2017-11-10T19:44:12-05:00

How did you measure this route. Because GPS and your vehicle are not official ways to measure it. Best way is to get the measuring wheel usually at your training room and have someone go with you to verify. Then report it to your chain of command. If they are unwilling to work with you take your findings to your IG.

Response by 1SG Lance Harker made Nov 10 at 2017 8:14 PM

2017-11-10T20:14:46-05:00

Yes

Response by COL Brad Welch made Nov 10 at 2017 11:16 PM

2017-11-10T23:16:47-05:00

Yes, you can always request a retest, but I would advise you to be highly tactful when disputing the distance. Are you the only one believing this to be an inaccurately laid out course? Were the average times longer than past tests? Did the top three or four runners in the unit have unusually slow times?

Most important, don't jump the chain of command. Work it up through your immediate supervisor first and give him/her ample time to resolve the issue.

Response by SGT Lisa Fields made Nov 11 at 2017 12:17 AM

2017-11-11T00:17:30-05:00

It all comes down to how interested your unit is to adhering to regulations. I legit poured my soul into a Pt test and had SGM toss the score card cause he found out they only used one stop watch thus not testing to standard.

Response by SGT Jason Smith made Nov 11 at 2017 1:12 AM

2017-11-11T01:12:02-05:00

Everyone needs to go back and read the REG there's actually leeway in the distance because not all tracks/routes are the same I don't remember the +/- on it but I think it's something like1.8 miles - 2.2

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2017 9:52 AM

2017-11-11T09:52:22-05:00

To me they had us do a diagnostic 2 mile and they told us it was 2 miles. Come to find out it was 3. Most of us failed of course but sometimes I'd rather know it's 2 miles. Morale of the story, don't lie to your soldiers because if you lie, they won't trust you as much

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2017 12:26 PM

2017-11-11T12:26:49-05:00

Honestly the whole 2miles run event is dumb.....I just hope it changes

Response by SPC Richard M. Padgett made Nov 11 at 2017 1:15 PM

2017-11-11T13:15:07-05:00

If you passed, make that your new standard. It is only approx an extra 400 feet. I was never a good runner, my best 2 mile being a 14:30, but I kept trying and going a bit further. Don't protest doing more in the same amount of time. It builds endurance and stamina.

Response by SGT Frank Chaney made Nov 11 at 2017 6:21 PM

2017-11-11T18:21:47-05:00

When, in combat, with 'charlie' on your ass, you gonna stop and say, "whoa man, this is as far as I can go, meet me here tomorrow and we'll finish up. Sounds like the Pvt. needs to extend hisself some and not go for the short distance. But, there is almost always one in every crowd. Thankfully, I don't remember any in our unit in '66 to '68.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2017 9:09 PM

2017-11-11T21:09:54-05:00

You in the 155?

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2017 10:21 PM

2017-11-11T22:21:32-05:00

I have to ask first, how did you measure the distance and how did they mesasure the distance. While it’s not unheard of for any course to be long or short unless done on a track I think you should work a little harder. Now if the course was egregiously over/under 2 miles it should definitely be redone. While I get your standard tested to is 2 miles, if this is a hard thing for you you should take more time to get better at it. I’ve seen absolute outliers slay a 3 mike run and the same can be said for you if you put the effort to run faster.

Response by Sgt Robert Quinn made Nov 12 at 2017 9:28 AM

2017-11-12T09:28:06-05:00

I don't really understand how much importance the Army puts on the PFT.
Was this a brand new route or one that had been used many times?
Did the PFC ever run that route before?
Did he measure it before hand or was it only because he didn't pass?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2017 6:17 PM

2017-11-12T18:17:17-05:00

maybe it should be pass or fail unless you're going for points. the army standard is 180 pts. everyone gets hung up on 270 and gives a SM a hard time she they score 225. guess what. that's above the standard. if you feel the standard should be 250 make it 250. if you can't set the course for the right distance for some that is pass or fail. maybe the elevation of the course is too much. and why all.of sudden is the 4 mile run a standard. no one cared for years.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2017 10:42 PM

2017-11-12T22:42:42-05:00

So there are a few answers to your question. Here goes:

First, yes, your Chain Of Command SHOULD honor a request to re-measure the course. IF you have a VALID reason why you believe that the course is over 2 miles. And driving it in your car is not a valid reason. If your CoC already measured the course and says that it’s 2 miles, you’d better have an iron-clad reason to refute that.

Second, if your CoC is already using the course it probably DOES think it’s 2 miles. Which means that you probably have a tough road ahead of you to get any kind of change.

Third and finally, sigh. You’ve heard this before from tons of people on here and most likely tons of people in your Unit: should that extra distance matter? While I say of COURSE it should and understand where you are coming from, I also spent enough time as a low-ranking Soldier and as a high-ranking Soldier to know that it’s gonna go something like this:
You: “I want a redo!”
Your CoC: “No.”
You: “But the course is longer than it should be!”
CoC: “Nope, we checked it, fat boy.”
You: “Well I rechecked it using (insert method here) and its .13 miles longer than it should be!”
CoC: “We have be n doing this longer than you. So you must be wrong. And your still a fat boy. Remedial PT and a Bar of Favorable Actions are in your near future.”
You: “But that’s wrong!”
CoC: “Nope, YOU’RE wrong. Now do push-ups.”

So after all of that frustration happens, you can either suck it up (a terrible fate that I hate telling anyone who is actually in the right), you can bring it to the next higher level in your CoC using the Open Door policy (but don’t forget to tell your CoC you’re doing it as a curtesy or you’re gonna bring down the pain on yourself), or you can fuel a Congressional complaint, in which case you’ve jumped ed the shark as far as hoping to stay in your current unit is concerned, and God help you if nothing comes of it.

Whichever you choose, I wish you good luck. And I also think you should get on the frigging treadmill and pound feet until you could pass the run if it had an extra frigging mile attached to it.

Response by SFC Paul Bennethum made Nov 13 at 2017 7:32 AM

2017-11-13T07:32:48-05:00

I never agreed with the standards for the run. All it took into account was age and gender and there are plenty of other physical factors that influence a person's run time.

Response by MSG Bob Metz made Nov 13 at 2017 9:16 AM

2017-11-13T09:16:36-05:00

.13 miles = 228.3 yds or 686.4 ft. Depending on how close you are to passing, this could be a gut wrencher for a number of reasons. 0.13 miles sounds like nothing until you put it in a more understandable perspective like yards and feet...were talking running an extra two football fields plus. Now forget your an athletic jock and maybe you have a 6-pack set of abs...think about the GI that has worked his ass off practicing and struggling to stay in shape let alone get in shape. Many of those guys try to find a ¼ mile track and run laps and time themselves. They are ecstatic when they can finally pass even if it is minimal standard. Evenso, after all that work they have achieved something - only to take a a test to a standard time measure on a nonstandardized course. That 2 football fields plus is a killer...physically, mentally and on morale.

If you require a Soldier to work his rear off on his time to prepare and achieve standard...you sure as hell as an NCO or Officer in control of that run are responsible to to that Soldier that his course is to standard. Yes - in this retired NCO’s opinion this would grounds for course verification and a retest if found in violation.

Response by SGT DeRon Nettles made Nov 13 at 2017 9:17 AM

2017-11-13T09:17:32-05:00

Yes I feel like you should

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2017 1:05 PM

2017-11-13T13:05:59-05:00

Okay, if the .13 is making that much of a difference then you need to work on your run, no denying that. However, the standard is 2 mi so the NCOIC administering the APFT should ensure that the course is to standard. But again, rather than concerning yiurself with whether it is to standard, make sure you are to standard. Focus on improving your run and that .13 won't matter.

Response by MSG(P) Thomas Finn made Nov 13 at 2017 6:42 PM

2017-11-13T18:42:18-05:00

Soldiers are using there phones to calibrate the distance and thus getting incorrect results.

Response by PVT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2017 7:01 PM

2017-11-13T19:01:16-05:00

I think that you should definently stick with the standard 2 mile. Sure some people won't pass it right away, but over time I know they will. As long as they keep in shape and put forth the effort. That's all I have to say about it.
-pvt McKenna

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2017 9:40 PM

2017-11-13T21:40:00-05:00

As a former training room NCO I took our measuring wheel and validated it's accuracy by measuring a 300' tape measur laid out in a strate line, once I knew the wheel was accurate I would validate the run rout by starting at the designated turn around point and walking back 5280' and zero inches, that marked the start point. Then turned around and confirmed my resaults. I did this because on more then one occasion a soldier would fail and try to say the course was too long and the test invalid, which was then easy to prove it wasn't. Also understand that although car odomitors are accurate assuming you have the stock tire size, proper pressure etc, they aren't accurate enough to measure down to the foot, they don't need to be, they just need to be accurate enough so that you do your regular maintenance reasonably close to when your supposed to.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2017 11:06 PM

2017-11-13T23:06:05-05:00

As you posted 6 months ago you are a "first termer" and as a PFC you should by no means be failing an APFT. .13 miles is not going to make a difference step your game up run more and get over it i know majors and LTC that run the 2mile in under 15 mins, let that sink in for a moment quit complaining and just run

Response by PO1 Glen Cook made Nov 13 at 2017 11:08 PM

2017-11-13T23:08:40-05:00

Like hell, I am sure the enemy would wait.

Response by SGT Scott Hopper made Nov 13 at 2017 11:54 PM

2017-11-13T23:54:44-05:00

I’m curious, did you fail the run then decide to go measure the course? How did you come by the info that the course was a whopping.13 miles over? Personally to me it sounds like you may be the type of private today when the Sgt’s say your off duty at 1600 your griping by 1602. It’s the Army suck it up and drive on!!!

Response by SGT Christopher Lachcik made Nov 14 at 2017 9:06 AM

2017-11-14T09:06:55-05:00

It's 2 miles. Not 2.13. So yes, I would dispute it and request a retest because the Army standard is 2 miles. Period.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2017 3:41 PM

2017-11-14T15:41:12-05:00

Regulation matters. The Military has a impartial rule based system. Regulation says 2 miles for run. The PFT regulations and policies are very clear. Deviation from regs can cause reason for legitimate dispute or appeal.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2017 3:53 PM

2017-11-14T15:53:29-05:00

Being a medic in the guard, I have been asked to be on standby in case of injuries. I have witness 2 different units move the finish line to the .10 mark beyond. Their reasoning I was given was they should run faster and they should be in shape.
It's amazing that the people in charge of the PT test are pencilled wiped and out of shape. The soldiers that failed I informed them of the difference in distant and I have not been ask back.

Response by MSgt Danny Richardson made Nov 14 at 2017 5:01 PM

2017-11-14T17:01:01-05:00

Never failed a PFT in 20 years in the Marines. Buck it up Butter Cup!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2017 4:38 AM

2017-11-15T04:38:49-05:00

Yes you are. The standard is in Black and White, "2 miles". No questions asked. Dispute this through your command until it comes off. No NJP can happen to you for appealing results from a Regulation executed incorrectly.

Response by 1SG Walter Banks Beacham made Nov 15 at 2017 6:15 AM

2017-11-15T06:15:42-05:00

You can't fight the war and Nikes and Reeboks. Especially when the enemy is fighting you in flip-flops.

Response by LCpl Matt Wetzel made Nov 15 at 2017 6:53 AM

2017-11-15T06:53:57-05:00

Really? As a Marine, I can only say, OMG! Every unit needs an 11B like this... It's our bacha bazi. Tired of getting blown by rangers? Want to feel some bitch tits? Hit up the chow hall, dog boy couldn't handle a tenth of a mile.

Response by SGT Justin Sanders made Nov 15 at 2017 8:51 AM

2017-11-15T08:51:21-05:00

Army standard. You can add to but not take away.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2017 9:41 AM

2017-11-15T09:41:30-05:00

The last APFT run I did in 15:15 I was 43 years old the next few I had to walk do to back issue yes if you add 61 seconds to any one time then there a issue.

Response by PO1 Roy Snow made Nov 15 at 2017 10:54 AM

2017-11-15T10:54:18-05:00

Let's put a frickin rag head behind you with an AK, and let's see if you pass or fail

Response by SPC Robert Coventry made Nov 15 at 2017 1:27 PM

2017-11-15T13:27:02-05:00

I think you should be able to retake, if you ran 1.95 miles the army would make you do 2 miles

Response by SGT Frank Pritchett made Nov 15 at 2017 5:51 PM

2017-11-15T17:51:00-05:00

Don't forget there are two types of PT Test, one is insure you are physically fit and and can be given at any time the 1st SG request it and the other one is a record PT Test that counts. If you are given a PT Test you can request it to be a record but you can not down grade a PT that is record. FM 21-20 clearly states what the the PT is and the requirements and they have not changed recently.

Response by SSgt Mike Stalker made Nov 15 at 2017 7:10 PM

2017-11-15T19:10:46-05:00

Pussy!

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2017 8:47 PM

2017-11-15T20:47:48-05:00

2 miles is 2 miles. Anything over would cause any flagging action to be revoked upon a formal internal/external 15-6 investigation or IG inspection. Even if a Soldier fails and is welllllllll over the passing time, and has a history of struggling on runs, the command would have to suck the egg for failing to validate the run route distance and grade. But of course the key is "if". Typically the 1SG or CSM would review the Soldiers request, (Training) verify findings and grant the request if found valid. Additional measures would be taken to ensure this does not happen again. Of course, this recourse would open the floodgates for every run failure throughout the organization.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2017 10:35 PM

2017-11-15T22:35:59-05:00

Yes you should bring it up if everyone’s time increased. Also where you measure the road can make a difference if it’s not a straight line.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2017 11:23 PM

2017-11-15T23:23:27-05:00

The standard is the standard. If you brought this complaint to me, I would get out the measuring wheel and I provide you a learning opportunity. I would teach you how to measure the course with it. Then if the course is too long I would absolutely allow you to retake your APFT. If it was not too long we'd do counseling, and you'd get 30 days of additional PT to train prior to a retest. Fair enough?
But be careful- I know people that would require your entire unit to retest. And they would be certain to ensure the entire unit knew it was due to your concern about meeting the standard. I can appreciate your personal courage, contesting it might be the integrity thing. However its not the loyalty thing. I recommend you should do the selfless-service thing and accept it, and do the duty thing and train harder.

Response by LCpl Richard Jimenez made Nov 15 at 2017 11:42 PM

2017-11-15T23:42:05-05:00

Really let’s just tell the enemy if you run 2.13 miles we will let you get away because we only run 2 miles hang your head in shame or Represent your Country with Pride. These Colors Don’t Run except for PT

Response by SPC Scott Owen made Nov 16 at 2017 6:48 PM

2017-11-16T18:48:41-05:00

If you cant make the extra .13 in time to pass you suck anyway. How about those of us that took the tests for years on hilly and mountainous terrain? Do you think 2 miles flat is the same as 2 miles in the mountains? We never bitched and I dont recall seeing someone fail a pt test in the regular army outside of basic.

Response by CPL Shannon Delay made Nov 16 at 2017 10:32 PM

2017-11-16T22:32:40-05:00

Suck it up and try harder trust I failed several I had only myself to blame but when I passed them it was for the best ..that is all

Response by CPL Brian Kozlowski made Nov 17 at 2017 9:15 AM

2017-11-17T09:15:02-05:00

2 miles is equivelent to 10,560 ft 2.13 miles is equal to 11,246'4.8", the difference is 686'4.8". For a 15 minute 2 mile you would run 11.73 feet per second or 704 feet per minute that extra 686 feet adds 58.48 seconds to the run, nearly a whole minute. If it was the case this is big and it should be corrected, simple math can fix the score. Who knows maybe this soldier just got off of profile and that extra minute could help, that is also an extra 16th of a mile, a foot or two is understandable, but thats big

Response by James Palmer made Nov 17 at 2017 10:01 AM

2017-11-17T10:01:39-05:00

Depends. What was the reason why you failed? Due to time or distance? You didn't say. When you ran, did you drop out after 1 mile? Or did it take you forever to run the distance? What happened?

Response by SPC Rosel Rodriguez made Nov 17 at 2017 5:56 PM

2017-11-17T17:56:48-05:00

So let me get this straight, a soldier is justified by regs and the leadership is now saying that the regs dont apply but want to use regs to flag the soldier? How can you as a leader ask your soldiers to do the right thing but can not do it yourself. Set the standard by upholding the standards.

Response by SSG Jon Miles made Nov 17 at 2017 9:33 PM

2017-11-17T21:33:04-05:00

For those who are complaining saying he shouldn't fail because the standard is the standard then using the same logic those who barely pass the two mile event while running 8 laps on a 400 meter track should fail. 3200 meters isn't 2 miles. Its like 20 feet or so short. Those soldiers should receive a fail. Or maybe we should just soldier up and accept the distance of the event our unit gives us and run like hell. Rather it's .13 too long or 20 ft too short if you are that close to failing or barely passing then it might behoove you to drop the beer and doughnuts and to run on your spare time to allow your run time to improve. Imho quit crying and soldier up.

Response by LTC Larry Davis made Nov 17 at 2017 9:51 PM

2017-11-17T21:51:50-05:00

What you provided gives no real information beyond 1) the distance was allegedly in excess of the standard, 2) you failed. Were you the only failure? If so, you're not going to be successful in filing a protest. Were there multiple failures, unusual for the unit and/or the route? If so, it needs command attention, not PFC. If not, then you are up a creek. Yes, there may be cause for concern, but as a former CDR, I can't render a decision on what you gave here. Sorry, Soldier, but this just doesn't wash.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2017 11:29 PM

2017-11-17T23:29:38-05:00

I took an apft at Ft Hunter Ligget and had it invalidated because the course was .2 miles too short. I've been on a permanent no run profile since January 2011 and I knew that I had not just walked 2.5 miles. I called them out on it and it was decided they would use it as a diagnostic instead of record. Meant that I had to retake it a month later at Camp Rilea in May. Nothing quite like walking 2.5 miles in the wind and rain. So on your counseling form it is perfectly OK to check the "disagree" box and explain why you disagree.

Response by SSG James Mielke made Nov 19 at 2017 11:27 AM

2017-11-19T11:27:20-05:00

I am on the fence about this one.
Truth, that extra 0.13 mile is an extra 686 feet (229m) and will add several seconds to your recorded time.
But if the SM in question is cutting it that close on the run, then a bit more time running for time rather than for beer might be in order.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2017 11:42 AM

2017-11-19T11:42:47-05:00

If this Soldier is trying to get promoted to SGT or SSG in a job that because of points pretty much Requires you to max out you APFT I would see NOTHING wrong with the Soldier using the open door policy to talk with the Platoon Leader/ company commander regarding the need for an accurate test. and if they refuse to fix it go to the Inspector General. Also, and NCO in this unit should have some personal courage and integrity and FIX the run course if it is proven to be wrong. be in better shape is a shitty reply to someone who has a valid concern, uphold the standard and take some pride in it, don't be afraid of being yelled at for doing the right thing for yourself or your Soldiers.

Response by CPO Blain Meisterhans made Nov 19 at 2017 2:17 PM

2017-11-19T14:17:04-05:00

You are allowed to get your ass in shape so you don't fail. Why do people always look for the retest. Why not pass it the first time and be done? We have done this and allowed this it's our own fault. And it's not getting any better.

Response by SGT Charles Oliver made Nov 19 at 2017 8:57 PM

2017-11-19T20:57:01-05:00

Stop crying snowflake. Its the army. You go where youre told, you do what youre told. Its for your benefit. We used to run in combat boots. Sometimes we ran with full combat load, with our rucks. Normal runs were 4 miles or more in snow rain heat or whatever mother nature threw at us. I was infantry and loved it. You must be a remf desk jockey

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 20 at 2017 8:47 AM

2017-11-20T08:47:08-05:00

Lol .13 of a mile added, and you still failed.

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Nov 20 at 2017 10:27 PM

2017-11-20T22:27:22-05:00

Haven't seen this much response since the CSM who wore nonregulation uniforms and hair styles. !

Response by CPO Mark Robinson made Nov 22 at 2017 10:29 PM

2017-11-22T22:29:34-05:00

For the Navy it's one and a half miles because were sailors, fat and lazy. Anyway I was on shore duty in Hawaii and they set up a new course one year and we were setting all types of records. I think I set a personal best that time. Well it turns out the course was about a quarter mile short which is quite a distance. Can you believe they made us run it again. I argued all the way to the finish line.

Response by Jordan Gaudard made Dec 2 at 2017 2:20 PM

2017-12-02T14:20:23-05:00

PFC Private RallyPoint Member Short answer is yes, it doesn't matter if you passed it or not, you have ground to stand on. I got promoted to staff sergeant with 682 points, and if I was 681 I wouldn't have made it. That 1 point could have came from .06 seconds on a 2-mile run. I would have wanted a retest.

Be sure to do your homework, and ensure that it was incorrect. Remember 1600 Meters isn't a mile, we use that shortcut often.

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Dec 6 at 2017 12:24 PM

2017-12-06T12:24:14-05:00

If you aimed for the top instead of aiming for the bottom, we would not be having this discussion.

Response by SGT Michael Szachnitowskik1035 made Jan 4 at 2018 7:38 AM

2018-01-04T07:38:00-05:00

I would have to say no

Response by Lt Col Charlie Brown made Jan 15 at 2018 8:47 AM

2018-01-15T08:47:28-05:00

When i was a commander, I was meticulous about accuracy of both fitness and weight checks because they affected my troops futures. Come with proof, and respectfully present your case.

Response by TSgt Greg McLeod made Jan 17 at 2018 9:57 AM

2018-01-17T09:57:07-05:00

It absolutely matters, especially since your score will go toward promotion points. Be careful though, bring a complaint up like this may cost you more than you think.

Response by SGT Kyle Bickley made Jan 20 at 2018 6:11 PM

2018-01-20T18:11:55-05:00

No! Understand what the PT Test is! It's not for brownie points, it's to let you know where you stand physically. On the run you need to Pace yourself till the last mile and push as hard as possible. It also let's the CO know who needs to work out more and attitude of the soldier in the effort they make. Your only as strong as the weakest man in your unit. The term carrying someone else's weight will mean something to truth for you. If they don't give maximum effort there, imagine what kinda effort they will give you on patrol where everyone to include the dog, cat, house plant hates your guts, and will cut you up faster then a cheap Ninja. Your a PFC your still learning, push hard and demand hard from all around you! Funerals suck!

Response by SSG Mark Franzen made Jan 22 at 2018 9:27 AM

2018-01-22T09:27:13-05:00

Hey I would say if your not fit 2.3 miles than you better start working out and be able run it! When I was in we ran 2 miles every day except Friday which we ran 5 miles
So get in shape or ship out.
SSG Mark Franzen
USA Veteran

Response by SSG Mark Franzen made Jan 22 at 2018 9:30 AM

2018-01-22T09:30:56-05:00

How would it be if you we're unable retest than make a point to start working out or get out you should be able to run 5 miles so get with.

Response by SGT Kyle Bickley made Jan 22 at 2018 3:00 PM

2018-01-22T15:00:49-05:00

If .13 miles extra kills you? Best take your non lazy PTing ass to the gym! That's on you! What ya gonna do in the mix when you don't have wheels, tread, or a hook to get you outta trouble? Run only 2 mile quit, and tell the other side that's all the Army required? Be seeing you on the news with some black hooded guy cutting your head off! Your a PFC? Start working out private! Any of my guys would have made that remark to me they'd be doing PT every time I looked at them! Your laziness will get someone killed trying to save your butt! Man up!

Response by LCpl Benjamin Wilson made Jan 24 at 2018 10:08 AM

2018-01-24T10:08:09-05:00

Only two miles that would be nice. Here is my question if in combat they say hey this objective is two miles away we need you there in x amount of time to save these soldiers are you going to measure it out and say well here is two miles and I am here at the correct time. So I am done. Instead of bitching about mis measurement push yourself to do the extra in the same about of time as two miles and know you have done even better and still filled your requirement with the extra. Then if you are somewhere else and it is exactly two miles your time will be better than those that have set themselves up to just pass with exactly two miles. This coming from a Marine that hated running.

Response by 1LT Susan Bailey made Feb 4 at 2018 2:07 PM

2018-02-04T14:07:42-05:00

Personally, if the standard is to run 2 miles and APFT was run and measured for 2.13 miles than this is inherently inappropriate. Besides the ultimate result of passing and failing, those who did pass may have scored lower due to the extra distance for the time recorded.
Going back to the pass or fail outcome, yes, if one failed the run based on a 0.13 difference in the run they probably shouldn’t have, but that’s beside the point.
The point is that it is not an appropriate measure of physical readiness based on the published standards. If the run was inadvertently measured for a longer than standard distance then any of the results are invalid, IMHO. I don’t recall a provision in the regs for a variable distance or estimate.

Response by CPL Alan Tindell made Feb 4 at 2018 3:16 PM

2018-02-04T15:16:29-05:00

The Army demands that soldiers meet standards. To lengthen the distance and not likewise change the minimum time is simply dishonest. What if a commander shortened the distance in order to ensure everyone passed the test?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2018 4:31 PM

2018-02-04T16:31:33-05:00

You can dispute it but if your unit decides to be upset about it they are going to probably bar you from continued service for some other bs reasons if not this

Response by SGT David Whitley made Feb 6 at 2018 10:36 PM

2018-02-06T22:36:27-05:00

Unbelievable - All of the "LEADERS?" on this chain, and not a single one of you taking ownership of the issue at hand? If the service member is marginal physically, then it's likely that your leadership is marginal. It wouldn't matter if you reduced the course to 1.5 miles, you will still have service members performing marginally on that, too! Sure, passing the run would be a breeze for the first year, but the next round of tests would show those marginal team-mates right back down there in the margins, where the lack of leadership has left them.
There is a dichotomy of thought in the TRUE leader's mind here:
1: Cross your T's, dot your I's: Take extra care that all courses are equal to or less than 2miles, so that the legal stuff is neatly squared away.
2: Lead your people - get your @ss out of the rack with YOUR TEAM-MATES every morning and DO PT as a functional team so that NO ONE that is medically capable of passing, doesn't easily pass it by a long shot.

There are no marginal service members - only marginal leaders.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2018 7:04 PM

2018-02-08T19:04:21-05:00

Run it and still beat the time. Whining about it only to have to retake it doesn't seem like the brightest idea.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2018 5:26 AM

2018-02-19T05:26:18-05:00

Im noticing alot of comments on the Assumption that the soldier failed due to the extra 0.13 miles. Well you know what they say about assuming. Could it be that the soldier has Maxed his Run time and other APFT events, but due to the extra distance he is not being credited with that fact ****GASP***. Possibly. We have become so focused on the negative side of every argument. Standards need to be upheld. what is the point of having standards and scores and points if all of it means nothing.

Response by SSG Dale London made Feb 19 at 2018 6:26 AM

2018-02-19T06:26:42-05:00

This is not an issue of physical fitness, it's an issue of integrity. At the end of the day this soldier is left asking this question: "If my command feels free to run fast and loose with this, what else are they cheating at?"
And, yes, extending the distance on an APFT is cheating. Standards must be kept as standards. If we are required to run "x" far in "y" time then it is the responsibility and obligation of the command to ensure that x IS x and not x+. How can a command expect soldiers to be honest if it isn't?
Battalion should be all over this like stink on poop. And if not the Battalion then the IG needs to be involved. This is a breach of faith of the most insidious kind.
To answer the question, YES! This has IG complaint written all over it.

Response by CW2 Bruce Greiner made Feb 20 at 2018 9:50 PM

2018-02-20T21:50:32-05:00

So a Cold War story. I was stationed in Heidelberg, Germany on the USAEUR staff. We were technically assigned to the HQ and Service Company, but we had little to do with with the organization - tested, trained, and everything else was done with the USAEUR staff, except the PT test (okay so it shows how old I am). As you would expect the company cadre had a strong dislike for us desk jockeys expected us to blow off the PT test and particularly the run. What they didn't realize was that the staff pukes were required to run at least 5 miles every day which is what you get when you have SOF officers in-charge. So PT test day, got to the run, the course was laid out around a set of barracks which blocked the staff view of us for much of the course. So before the run, five of us lit up cigarettes (none of us smoked) and stood around waiting for the start, getting a lot of grief. We started running at a jog with cigarettes dangling from our mouths, got around the building, pulled the smokes out, and ran like hell, came around the buildings back in view, slowed down, started smoking again, a jogged past the monitors. Did this six more times and we finished the run in under 11 minutes. When we last saw them, they were still arguing with the guy with the stopwatch Accusing him of screwing up. Never did the PT test with the HQ company again.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2018 2:44 PM

2018-02-21T14:44:40-05:00

If you’re depending on it being exactly 2 mikes in order to pass then I agree you have more issues to worry about and you should practice. But the army is built on standards and we are responsible to living up to and enforcing those standards. How then can big army not hold the standard with the test? That .13 of a mile shouldn’t be the deciding factor in passing, but they hold you to the standard and they should hold the standard as well point blank period

Response by SSG Brian MacBain made Feb 23 at 2018 8:59 AM

2018-02-23T08:59:10-05:00

PFC Victor Herrera, You need to give more history to your question. Did you fail your run by seconds or barely passed it? If you think it was more then two miles, then you can dispute it. But, when you do, keep in mind that you will have to take all three events again. I had a similar issue, but not with PT but with qualifying with your assigned weapon. I was stationed at MacDill AFB (me being an army guy) we have to qualify by AF standards, not Army standards. By AF standards, we had to 10 rounds supported and unsupported prone, 10 rounds standing and 10 rounds kneeing. Army standards (at that time with no foxhole) was 20 supported and 20 unsupported prone position. When I got back to the unit, the CDR ask me if I had passed. I told him this - By AF standards yes, by Army standards no. If the whole company qualified by the AF standards, then no one in his company is qualified. He agreed with me (I was an E5/SGT) and he had the whole company back out there. We had to explain to the AF cadre what was the Army standards were. Bottom line, there is nothing wrong to speak up if you think something is wrong.

Response by 1SG Rob Smith made Mar 1 at 2018 7:07 PM

2018-03-01T19:07:28-05:00

30 year 1SG ILL SAY IT AGAIN.IF THAT SOLDIER FAILS BUT FEELS HE CAN PASS IT TAKING IT AGAIN THEN GIVE HIM THAT RIGHT. ADMINISTER IT TO THE LETTER. ARMY STANDARDS LAST I HEARD WAS STILL 2 MILES. GRADERS MAP OUT THE COURSE TO THE LAST INCH SO THERE WONT BE ANY DISPUTES. AND AGAIN THESE YOUNG SOLDIERS WANT TO MOVE UP THROUGH THE RANKS, GET A LITTLE MORE MONEY IN THERE POCKET. ILL PUT IT A LITTLE MORE BLUNT. GET THE TIT OUT OF THEIR MOUTH.
CPO D C I AM ASSUMING YOU ARE IN THE NAVY. DIFFERENT BRANCHES DIFFERENT STANDARDS

Response by SFC Michial Bergen made Mar 1 at 2018 10:51 PM

2018-03-01T22:51:13-05:00

Call me an over achiever, but if my run time at that distance just missed me getting maximum score then I would pitch a huge fit. I maxed most of my PT tests and it was always competitive in the units I was assigned. You had to max the PT test and from there it was how many push-ups/sit-ups you did and how fast did you run the 2 miles. As far as not being able to meet the standard...remedial PT for you. You fail to meet the standard then bad on you....do it again then perhaps the military isn't for you. Time for something else

Response by PV2 Ross Bryan made Mar 5 at 2018 8:42 PM

2018-03-05T20:42:03-05:00

As I was in the reserves only wanting to put in my time until my discharge date I wasn't under any motivation to excel on the physical test!
The night before the test I worked a full shift
4- Midnight plus a little overtime on my RR
job and was not rested! I sluffed my way through it and went home that evening.
A few weeks later I got a nastygram
from headquarters complaining about how poorly I did on the test and ordered me to see my own doctor and get checked out by him!
This I did and the doc thought I had a case of diabetes and put his opinion on the paperwork sent with the letter, which I mailed back to headquarters. I heard nothing more until just before summer camp in 1967! I had started watching my diet and then realized I would have problems watching my diet on mess hall chow and went to the main guy at the armory and told him I needed separate rations due to my medical condition and diet!
He then told me, You can't have diabetes and be in the army! That was news to me!
He then told me I was excused from summer camp and would be processed out on a medical
Discharge! A few days later I got a letter ordering me to go to Ft Leavenworth and see an army doc for further checks!
I was expecting to be grilled by an lifer, but instead was checked out by a couple of young docs not much older than myself (25).
After being checked over, One of them said to the other, "Do you think he is in bad enough shape for a discharge?" The other doc said
"Hell, he was drafted into this S.O.B. like we were, I say , turn him out!" 27 October 1967
I was discharged, and 2 weeks later it was announced the 842 nd QM was to be activated
for NAM, 16 May 1968!

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2018 6:57 PM

2018-04-07T18:57:48-04:00

Yes. The Army works on standards. You are held to them and so should those administering the test. I took an APFT that has the run shortened by less than that and we all had to redo the entire test two weeks later. So yes, I would make that protest! Good luck!

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2019 6:18 PM

2019-03-03T18:18:25-05:00

If you are failing with an extra 150 meters....you got other problems in all honesty

Response by SPC David S. made Mar 4 at 2019 10:15 AM

2019-03-04T10:15:26-05:00

I would say yes - .13 miles adds a lot of seconds to the run (25 - 30 in a full sprint). I would say retesting seems fair for any that didn't pass the run.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Mar 4 at 2019 2:34 PM

2019-03-04T14:34:40-05:00

If you failed the run, then yes. Quite frankly it should invalidate the test for all as the distance would have impacted every score accept those that run like the wind. These scores equate to points and other forms of recognition. Thank you for your service.

Response by SPC Brian Romine made May 17 at 2019 6:26 PM

2019-05-17T18:26:23-04:00

25 years ago I never questioned or measured the 2 mile run. We were told to run to whatever NCO was at the turn around point and run back. Of course, the platoon I was in ran so much we were happy when it was put test time because we only had to run 2 miles!

Response by HA Jace Gallagher made May 22 at 2019 6:29 PM

2019-05-22T18:29:15-04:00

I would say this is on both the command and the soldier. The command failed to uphold the correct standard, which affects promotion points and could also possibly be the difference of getting into Ranger school or not by a few seconds when that soldiers technically passed the standard. However, the soldier should be I good enough shape to not have to rely on a minute making or breaking their test, assuming a fully healthy soldier of course. Soldiers will routinely run more in combat. PT tests are set up for the MINIMUM standard expected to complete the task, not the max. A good rule of thumb to follow is for a soldier to practice running more than 2 miles so that the 2 miles is a breeze, even if .13 does get added. Failure on both parties.