If this report is true, do you think commanders and pilots would obey an order to attack an ally to defend a foe?

Sgt Mark Ramos — Sun, 01 Mar 2015 13:00:04 -0500

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/191966#.VPNSFfnF8_Y

Report: Obama Threatened to Shoot Down IAF Iran Strike

Kuwaiti paper claims unnamed Israeli minister with good ties with the US administration 'revealed the attack plan to John Kerry.'

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2015 1:02 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Mar 2015 13:02:35 -0500

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/191966#.VPNSFfnF8_Y

So that people can access the link easier.

That being said, Israel is a tentative ally. While we've often had good ties, the Israeli's will do what they need to in order to defend their nation. I dread to think of a war against the Israelis, as they are a terrific fighting force, and I have the utmost respect for the people....

Edit: The 'dread' I speak of is that we have had close ties to Israel. They are generally a peaceful nation....or at least a nation WISHING for peace. I also fear for the future of Israel, as the nation has been largely reliant on us for advanced military technology. Without that, I wonder what will happen to the future of the country. I doubt that Russia will supply military technology to the Israelis....and I don't know how the Israeli's will stand against a war of attrition with the Arabs.
v/r,
CPT Butler

Report: Obama Threatened to Shoot Down IAF Iran Strike

Kuwaiti paper claims unnamed Israeli minister with good ties with the US administration 'revealed the attack plan to John Kerry.'

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Mar 1 at 2015 1:21 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Sun, 01 Mar 2015 13:21:57 -0500

Our military mission is Global Stability. Period. If someone threatens that, we have to deal with that. It doesn't matter who that is.

Remember War is Politics. Politics through force, as opposed to Politics through Diplomacy. Threats are Diplomacy, backed by potential force.

Let's look at the situation without any country names.

Country X is planning country Y, threatening Regional & Global Stability. We (the US) can intervene using Politics (threat of force) to preserve Stability. That is our military mission. Do we do it? Simple answer, yes.

It escalates to the point where we have to use real force (War/Conflict) on one specific country, to maintain Regional Stability (& Global Stability). Do we do it? Yes.

What if that country is "Friendly?" The answer is still yes. It doesn't matter if that country is Israel, Saudi Arabia, France, Germany, or the UK. Global Stability is more important than any one country.

The concept of Ally and Enemy is outdated. Things are not black & white. Things are massively grey. Everyone is friendly, unfriendly, neutral, or hostile in various ways.

Think back to Pre-9/11. Iraq prevented Iran from rolling into Saudi Arabia. We prevented Iraq from invading Kuwait. So Iraq was "sort-of" and ally to Saudi, a foe to Kuwait & Iran, and generally unfriendly to us. Iran was a Foe to Saudi & Iraq, unfriendly to us, and roughly neutral to Kuwait. See how bizarre this gets quickly.

Response by MSgt Allan Vrboncic made Mar 1 at 2015 2:53 PM

MSgt Allan Vrboncic — Sun, 01 Mar 2015 14:53:51 -0500

Having Israel against us would be the worst thing to happen to the USA.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Mar 1 at 2015 4:20 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Sun, 01 Mar 2015 16:20:06 -0500

Let us remember, the U S Navy did not attack the Israeli jet fighters firing at the U.S. Liberty in 1967. I later met the former commander, CPT McGonagle Congressional Medal of Honor awarded for his steadfastness as his ship was attacked and 34 crew members were killed while 171 casualties were incurred. The ship was heavily damaged. Israel paid about 7 million to the crew members KIA and wounded. Israel later 'settled' their bill for damages to the Liberty for 6 million of the 17 million the U.S. claimed.

If we didn't attack when our SMs were under fire, why would we fire on aircraft in transit?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2015 5:13 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Mar 2015 17:13:59 -0500

I'm not sure, but I don't think I could. This is what a cat thinks.gotta keep a sense of humor.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2015 5:16 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Mar 2015 17:16:19 -0500

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2015 5:21 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Mar 2015 17:21:04 -0500

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2015 5:22 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Mar 2015 17:22:37 -0500

Forgive me...

Response by SPC David Shaffer made Mar 1 at 2015 6:50 PM

SPC David Shaffer — Sun, 01 Mar 2015 18:50:42 -0500

I believe they would. Soldiers are trained to follow orders.

Response by Cpl Brett Wagner made Mar 1 at 2015 8:15 PM

Cpl Brett Wagner — Sun, 01 Mar 2015 20:15:18 -0500

Does anyone know if the president really said this? If he did I think he is picking on the wrong people.

Response by Cpl Brett Wagner made Mar 1 at 2015 8:32 PM

Cpl Brett Wagner — Sun, 01 Mar 2015 20:32:16 -0500

I'm shocked by what I am reading from the military RP members on this post.
First I don't agree with what happened regarding the USS Liberty however I think it was very stupid for us to sail an electric surveillance ship so close to a nation who was at war with multiple enemies at the time. Not to mention like some of you said above it is fine to attack someone if they pose a threat to stability in the region. So Israel's attack on the Liberty is justified by all of you who think it is ok to shoot down Israeli aircraft.
I'm probably the only one with the do-dads to say it here but if that happens I will be just like Michelle Obama I will be ashamed of my country. Perhaps I will need to give up my citizenship for such a disgusting action.
You all can try to hide your true selves behind however you want to justify what you say but I have seen you all before. I've seen you in the eyes and actions of American skin heads, the Nation of Islam followers, and in the most evil of all the German Nazis of WW II. Yes you find it easy to hate and blame the Jews don't you? Now I understand why the same people defend and cheer for the Islamic terrorists.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2015 9:02 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Mar 2015 21:02:37 -0500

His actions regarding Israel speaks volumes. Years ago I would have said heck no they wouldn't obey that order, but today with all those who blindly follow...

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2015 11:38 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Mar 2015 23:38:44 -0500

First is Israel really our ally? Or do we just conveniently align with them for mutual benefits like we do with rest of the that region. Do we need Israel? We have no bases there, they serve no real strategic partnership on that aspect. Our weapons manufactures make money off of them with the money we give Israel. What do they do for us other than manipulate our government with their powerful lobby in Washington?

Obviously it's a sticky issue we have to politically align with them to have on guaranteed ally in the region. Here is what I would do.

If they transit air space that we are guarding I think they should be intercepted and forced to return let them burn up all their gas. If they are in our airspace then we can legally intercept them as a bandit going through another countries air space. If we shot them down we could claim rouge unidentified bandits from Syria because they would not be squeaking or talking or be on our ATO. They would be an unauthorized sortie. The gray area is what if they air bridge with tankers and go around Saudi Arabia through the straight of Hormuz staying in international waters? I am not sure we would be legal. However if we intercepted their tankers and put our planes into the contact position, the position 10 feet from the refueling boom, ie basically blocking their ability to get fuel until they RTB, they wouldn't have the gas to transit the long route. My plan would be to literally run them out of gas.

I suppose the best way to threaten them is by taking away the billion dollars we give them. Deny anymore support for MX and parts for their aircraft and leave them vulnerable. Who are they going to run to Russia or China.

Israel would be in he wrong if they attacked Iran without provocation. They would stir the hornets nest and cause more trouble than its worth.

Response by SGT Tyler G. made Mar 2 at 2015 2:28 AM

SGT Tyler G. — Mon, 02 Mar 2015 02:28:40 -0500

Well, before I answer the given question, I'd like to clarify that I don't remotely trust an article from a propaganda news agency for accuracy. However, with that said, there are a few select situations where firing on a, what would then be former, ally would be called for. One of those situations would be if they were about to start a war that could devastate the region, our interests, and potentially our national security. With all that said, I don't know enough about this situation to comment further about whether this specific incident, if true, would have been justified.

Response by SPC Richard White made Mar 2 at 2015 4:05 AM

SPC Richard White — Mon, 02 Mar 2015 04:05:59 -0500

I think an individual pilot could make that decision for themselves and I am sure most wouldn't fire on friendly forces.I am sure there would be a way that the order could be deemed unlawful.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2015 10:51 AM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Mar 2015 10:51:19 -0500

Sources look pretty sketchy for this story - coming from unnamed sources by a newspaper (Al-Jarida) in Kuwait? Forgive me if I'm a bit skeptical...

http://www.maannews.com/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=759661

Report: Obama threatened to fire on Israeli jets attacking Iran

A Kuwaiti newspaper reports that US President Barack Obama thwarted an Israeli military attack against Iran's nuclear facilities in 2014.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2015 11:01 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Mar 2015 11:01:26 -0500

One would think of they would shoot down a rogue commercial airliner if required, they world take out an Allied plane,

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2015 7:00 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Mar 2015 19:00:32 -0500

I a m going to guess that this report is nothing more than unsubstantiated propaganda garbage. This supposed revelation came out a few days before Nytenyahu was to speak before congress. This was probably an attempt to fuel the Americann pro-Isreal lobby. In reality all we would have to do to deter them is pull their monetary aid.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2015 7:19 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Mar 2015 19:19:06 -0500

I don't think so. Israel is a very important ally.

Response by SGT Jim Z. made Mar 2 at 2015 8:47 PM

SGT Jim Z. — Mon, 02 Mar 2015 20:47:35 -0500

If this is true and President Obama does issue this order it can be perceived as an act of war and if I was issued this order I would have strong objection to it since Israel is an ally.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2015 10:05 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 10:05:42 -0500

I want to respond to this article with no rage... LOL
I hate talking about a CINC but this POTUS is just 100 percent wrong. Threatening our Ally? It seems to me that this "man" (BO) is confused about what his position entails. I really don't like where we are going with this, and he has made America Look SO weak. He doesn't represent most of us. Why did Iraq fail??? Cuz he LET it. Had he listened to his predecessor, he would've understood what pulling out too early would cause. Not the greatest POTUS... like ever.

Response by CMDCM Gene Treants made Mar 4 at 2015 9:38 PM

CMDCM Gene Treants — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 21:38:09 -0500

That is a really good question. I have to wonder if Obama would really issue the order to protect his allies and put down Israeli Forces in the first place. There might actually be opposition to his order in this case instead of the blind compliance he seems to get from the Senior Military in so many things today. Israel has always been an ally of the USA (Liberty notwithstanding) and usually our only real ally in the Middle East. Maybe the President does not get that, but so many others inside the beltway do.

Response by CW4 Guy Butler made Aug 11 at 2015 10:53 AM

CW4 Guy Butler — Tue, 11 Aug 2015 10:53:05 -0400

Not sure the rationale has changed that much...

Not sure the reasons have changed that much...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/sep/25/iran.israelandthepalestinians1