If we're all Soldiers first, why don't we incorporate more battle drills in BCT?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 01:02:34 -0400

I feel like it relies on having an Infantry DS that can teach PVTs on what they themselves learned while in the Infantry. The best advice we got on how to "live" in the field, shoot, patrol, react to fire stuff like that were all drastically improved when an Infantry DS stepped in and taught us some pointers.

Response by Cpl Douglas Loven made Sep 23 at 2018 2:49 AM

Cpl Douglas Loven — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 02:49:57 -0400

That is a very good question.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Sep 23 at 2018 6:06 AM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 06:06:43 -0400

I think they've removed a lot of what's needed to know how to survive during combat, I had Vietnam veterans for DI's and they taught you well.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Sep 23 at 2018 7:06 AM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 07:06:56 -0400

A simple demostration by the cadre followed by a couple of cadre assessed half-pace walkthroughs by the soldiers THEN give'm full-speed runs until they get it correct - say setup in scenarios in 6-A-Day Round Robins? (Spoiler Alert - Sarcasm Follows)
Hmmm .... Of course the cadre would have to know what they're doing and rehearse B4 action.
No, that would be too time consuming and we all know we don't want to sweat while training.
By-the-by, excellent post soldier.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Sep 23 at 2018 11:01 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 11:01:29 -0400

1. I agree-2. It is in the hands of TRADOC. 3. Your unit will help some, when they have field training- you hope.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2018 11:09 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 11:09:10 -0400

I favor the idea of requiring small unit tactical leaders, from most occupational specialties, (so, maybe, E-5 through E-7 and O-1 through O-3), to graduate from a "combat leader course" which would emphasize battle-drills, troop leading procedures, and reinforcement of land navigation and radio communication knowledge. (Grandfather-in folks who've already completed something comparable - Ranger School, Sapper School, SF, what-have-you). 25th ID had a division-level combat leader course at the Light Infantry Training Center on East Range. But a more efficient way of doing it might be to expand the curriculum at the existing professional education schools. (If this is already happening -then awesome.)

That would improve survivability for many units in the Army. Additionally, I think it would improve understanding of what the Infantry are doing - and to me, the Army pretty much exists to create victories by the Infantry.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Sep 23 at 2018 11:49 AM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 11:49:39 -0400

I concur with you. We need to teach tactics from competent trainers. We need a train the trainer program for DSs.

Response by SGT John " Mac " McConnell made Sep 23 at 2018 12:48 PM

SGT John " Mac " McConnell — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 12:48:52 -0400

IMHO. I think all BCT should be taught by combat arms drills. With both offensive and defensive infantry tactics as part of the curriculum. As SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth said , we went trough BCT with mostly all Vietnam Drill Sergeant's. That was the best training back in the day. Of course this was before OSUT. " one station unit training.
Basic was just a start. My real lessons came when I stepped off the bus at Fort Benning.. Great post SPC Private RallyPoint Member .

Response by SPC Casey Ashfield made Sep 23 at 2018 12:51 PM

SPC Casey Ashfield — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 12:51:00 -0400

One of the greatest lies sold during initial training, we are all ____ first.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Sep 23 at 2018 1:14 PM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 13:14:18 -0400

First hand experience is a great teacher and to be able to pass that down to others to help them face and survive the challenges of combat is well worth while. Books and classes are fine to a point but I do know what I've learned from some great NCOs I had served with and under made a lasting impression and I also tried to pass on what I had learned from them to My own troops as I advanced in rank. I know how it helped Me and I wanted to do the same for the young Men and woman that supervised and give them the same learning curve advantage I was given. Many drills also, I won't tell You I enjoyed them at the time in every case however when it came time to use some of those skills and You didn't even have time to think about it I was already conditioned to respond and did. Before that I wondered if I could, I found out, Yes I could and knew who to thank for that.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2018 1:27 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 13:27:42 -0400

The issue is one of money. The Army doesn't want to spend the money to send every Soldier through Infantry AIT, like the Marines. It's something I always thought the Marines did right that the Army should adopt. But, with Infantry OSUT taking 16 weeks, the Army wouldn't be able to get all 70,000+ recruits a year through basic.