Posted on Apr 13, 2016
If you are overweight and on permanent profile that inhibits you from taking the APFT, should you still be in a leadership position?
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I'm asking from a Combat MOS standpoint. Considering leading by example.
Leadership
Height and Weight
APFT
Profiles
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 40
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AR 600-9
3–6. Actions, counselings, and evaluations for Active Component and Reserve Component Soldiers on active duty
The following actions are required when a Soldier is determined to be exceeding the body fat standard (see table 3–1):
a. Notification counseling. In accordance with AR 600–8–2, the commander has 3 working days to Flag the Soldier using DA Form 268 (Report to Suspend Favorable Personnel Actions (FLAG)) and 2 working days from initiation of DA Form 268 to counsel and/or notify and enroll the Soldier in the ABCP. The effective date of the DA Form 268 flagging action is the date that the Soldier is found to be noncompliant. Notification counseling documentation will be completed in accordance with figure 3–1. During this notification counseling, Soldiers will be advised they—
(1) Have a DA Form 268 placed on their record to suspend favorable personnel actions. Some of the ramifications of the flagging action include:
(a) Are nonpromotable (to the extent such nonpromotion is permitted by law).
(b) Will not be assigned to command, command sergeant major, or first sergeant positions.
If you cannot be appointed to a leadership position as a 1SG or CSM why would you as a 1SG or CSM allow your PSGs, SLs, TLs be overweight?
3–6. Actions, counselings, and evaluations for Active Component and Reserve Component Soldiers on active duty
The following actions are required when a Soldier is determined to be exceeding the body fat standard (see table 3–1):
a. Notification counseling. In accordance with AR 600–8–2, the commander has 3 working days to Flag the Soldier using DA Form 268 (Report to Suspend Favorable Personnel Actions (FLAG)) and 2 working days from initiation of DA Form 268 to counsel and/or notify and enroll the Soldier in the ABCP. The effective date of the DA Form 268 flagging action is the date that the Soldier is found to be noncompliant. Notification counseling documentation will be completed in accordance with figure 3–1. During this notification counseling, Soldiers will be advised they—
(1) Have a DA Form 268 placed on their record to suspend favorable personnel actions. Some of the ramifications of the flagging action include:
(a) Are nonpromotable (to the extent such nonpromotion is permitted by law).
(b) Will not be assigned to command, command sergeant major, or first sergeant positions.
If you cannot be appointed to a leadership position as a 1SG or CSM why would you as a 1SG or CSM allow your PSGs, SLs, TLs be overweight?
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1SG (Join to see)
SSG Warren Swan
I couldn't agree with you more, that more needs to be done to not let our Soldiers who are suffering from illnesses get discharged because bad leadership thinks its easier than spending time and helping the Soldier. We have addressed gender equality, religion and other types of issues but not this one. The DOD and Army will hopefully see the gap in institutional knowledge being lost and come up with a better solution for Soldiers being cast aside for failing body fat composition as a result of medication they are taking due to Military related injuries. It adds insult to injury. As a SFC class, I would give great weight to an argument from a SSG on behalf of his Soldier failing the HT/WT/body fat standards. I do however standby the fact that I do not have the authority to change the regulations or molest them so they fit the Soldier or my needs. Not being in a leadership position until they can meet those standards is not a punishment. It can actually be looked at as a chance to regroup without the pressure a leadership position caries. I think its how the senior leadership handle it is what makes the difference. We as leaders should handle issues (especially medical) as confidential and applicable to HIPAA laws. (Yes, HIPAA laws apply to us in the military too). The lower enlisted (nor anyone else) should not and do not need to know how and why a leader is not in a leadership position.
My subordinates know that I don't work for my 1SG, Commander or SGM. I am accountable to them. I work for my subordinates.
I couldn't agree with you more, that more needs to be done to not let our Soldiers who are suffering from illnesses get discharged because bad leadership thinks its easier than spending time and helping the Soldier. We have addressed gender equality, religion and other types of issues but not this one. The DOD and Army will hopefully see the gap in institutional knowledge being lost and come up with a better solution for Soldiers being cast aside for failing body fat composition as a result of medication they are taking due to Military related injuries. It adds insult to injury. As a SFC class, I would give great weight to an argument from a SSG on behalf of his Soldier failing the HT/WT/body fat standards. I do however standby the fact that I do not have the authority to change the regulations or molest them so they fit the Soldier or my needs. Not being in a leadership position until they can meet those standards is not a punishment. It can actually be looked at as a chance to regroup without the pressure a leadership position caries. I think its how the senior leadership handle it is what makes the difference. We as leaders should handle issues (especially medical) as confidential and applicable to HIPAA laws. (Yes, HIPAA laws apply to us in the military too). The lower enlisted (nor anyone else) should not and do not need to know how and why a leader is not in a leadership position.
My subordinates know that I don't work for my 1SG, Commander or SGM. I am accountable to them. I work for my subordinates.
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MSG (Join to see)
well i can tell you with all the meds va put me on for ptsd havent gained a pound, still can pass apft to this day, cant run but my 2.5 walkis great 30 minutes, so i'm still a leader
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SSG (Join to see)
Also keep in mind that, according to AR 600-9, the Soldier must undergo a medical examination to eliminate the possibility of underlying medical or mental conditions that would prevent them from achieving satisfactory progress in the ABCP. This must be done before any separation proceedings as a result of failure. If the Soldier does request this upon entry into the program then it has to be done earlier on. Many units either don't understand this or fail to brief their Soldier I their rights upon enrollment. Leaders must read and understand the regulations and, if there is any confusion, they must seek legal counsel.
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SSG (Join to see)
All this is said is with the understanding that the standard is the standard but in those few cases where there is a medical issue involved that we need to know the proper steps to take.
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I believe that your teams, squads, and platoons require that you as a leader should be in top shape. If your hurt they should send you to Battalion Staff, or HHB to take a knee, rest, and refit, then join back into the fight. You dont stop being a leader just because your hurt, utilize your strengths where you best help the unit
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SSG (Join to see)
Lets be honest can you tell an amputee he's less of a leader, can you tell someone whos put everything into his job but his body broke down that he's not a leader, I couldn't.
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SFC (Join to see)
Over weight and permanent profile??? That's a lot. Having a permanent profile for one event of the APFT I can understand. As a reservist I have seen permanent profiles across the board. Meaning no APFT ever. If your disabled that much you shouldn't be in the Army.
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TSgt (Join to see)
SSG Winkler, SFC JOE KAPACZIEWSKI did not let his body tell him that he could not lead. He lost a leg and he can still be an Army Ranger. He fought hard to stay a leader. Those are the men we need in our Army. If you cannot stay in shape you should leave our profession, period!
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Can of worms you're opening here but I tend to sway towards leading by example... Following for other leader's insight
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